Rossi Working on Self-Destructing E-Cats to Protect Intellectual Property

Andrea Rossi has been very careful to protect the “industrial secret” of the E-Cat, i.e. the details of what happens within the reaction chamber, and especially the ingredients of the catalyst that makes the reaction so powerful. Many people have commented that despite all the precautions that Rossi is making, that once the E-Cat is released there will be people who will break open the reactor to learn what is inside, and thus allow for the pirating of the technology.

Rossi is of course aware of this possibility, and he is making plans to prevent this from happening. Here is an exchange that took place on his web site yesterday on the topic:

Q: I read that there won’t be any implementations in Italy soon. Are you talking about the industrial aspect? What about the private use of the E-Cat? Will it be available in Italy too?

A: I think that the household targeted items will arrive later. We have to resolve the problem to make them self-destructive in case of opening the reactors. Otherwise, with few thousands of dollars anybody has access to the confidential aspects of the technology. In industrial plants this issue is more easy to afford and has been resolved

Then came a follow up:

Q: Is this necessary if you have a patent? Is it possible to achieve this against someone with sophisticated tools and equipment? Won’t your secret necessarily be in the public domain once the technology is widely distributed?

A: 1- I have not yet an international patent granted, I have a National patent granted, the international application is still pending
2- It is difficult to make this self destruction technology, this is why it will take time. We must find a way that is not dangerous for the persons, but that annichilates instantaneously all the sensible information if somebody tries to open the sealed parts
3- I have to defend the People that have invested in this. And I will.

And a further question:

Q: Due the value of the challenge you have to consider that the efforts to crack the design opening the e-cat certainly will include inert atmosphere, or / and extremely low temperature, where most chemical reaction are impossible.

A: We will resolve the problem.

Rossi is obviously trying to stay ahead of those who want to hack into the E-Cat and try to reverse engineer. He seems very aware of the lengths that people will go to steal his secret and appears determined to do all he can to protect it. He displays an admirable sense of honor in doing his utmost to protect the investments of those who have made the research and discovery possible, but it remains to be seen whether he can create a foolproof method of maintaining this industrial secret. The value of this technology will make it extremely attractive to anyone who does not want to pay the going rate for it, and as we know there are people and organizations who will go to almost any lengths to acquire things they want in illegitimate ways.

  • What was developed can be redeveloped from scratch.
    If people know a device exist able to produce such energy, they will start to try anything to replicate it. If they can not reverse engineering it, they will start from what they know (we all know) and from there will try.

    At the end they could “brute force” the solution. The money involved is too much.
    If in October the 1MW plant is operative as claimed, I bet someone will be able to replicate the technology without help from Rossi or others connected to him in less than a year.

    The money and the people pouring in the field will be overwhelming.

    • WaltC

      I agree. Just knowing something can be done is more than half the battle to being able to reproduce it, or even surpass it with 2nd gen. improvements. And knowing bits and pieces of the process even helps more. In fact, I have to think that there are labs all over the world that are working on exactly that goal right now.

      In addition, anyone who has access to the “secret sauce”, factory and lab workers, etc. just makes the secret that much more likely to get out.

      It seems like the best shot at maintaining defacto ownership of the breakthrough invention is by legal methods (patents, etc.) and by staying ahead of the competition as the “Model T Ford” evolves into the “2011 NASCAR Ford”.

  • I completely understand the lengths to which Mr Rossi wants to go to protect his investors, look at Apple they made itunes and their iPods Closed network for the very same reason. And Apple is wealthy, but with a technology like and without lawyers like Apple how on earth do they expect to defend their technology. Won’t this just be a roadblock to ‘copye-cats’, or is this just a lead up to a larger delay for releasing this technology at all?

  • Malcolm

    Sounds like a way to extend the deadline to me. As an engineer, I can tell you any self destruct system will NOT slow down reverse engineering.

    • Waiting

      You’re right, of course. There’s no way this could delay reverse engineering by even a single day. Even aside from the problems of designing a self destruct that isn’t triggered by the heat and gammas.

  • Giovanni

    As much as I want this to be true what I’m afraid of is this is a money laundry scheme. It seems that Rossi was involved in money laundry before. Here how this could go. He was able to fool the scientists that assisted to his demonstrations. After all they could just testify what Rossi wanted them to see. There are conceivable ways to produce enough heat to heat up the water and fake a positive energy production. For example the heater he says he uses to start the reaction could vaporize the water and slight error in the humidity of the output vapor could give a very different estimate of the excess energy. Now if this is a fake one would wonder why to go through this. It gives some attention and validation of the apparatus. Now the monetization can come in this way. He could build a big generator that may use conventional means (as oil or gas) to produce energy and deliver it to a low cost. The money loss due to the low cost would be offset if he has a deal with organizations that would provide him with cash from criminal operations that would appear as legitimate earnings of the company. Rossi would get a cut and the organization would have money that is now considered clean and available. In other words all this could simply cover a money laundry operation. The fact that he would not make the units available to individuals is just a confirmation of this doubt of mine.

    • Waiting

      True. Claims like this are one of 3 things: truth, mistake, or fraud. Rossi’s demos have ruled out a mistake. That’s very exciting. But they say nothing about which of the other two cases it might be.

      One evidence for it being true was when Rossi said he wouldn’t be paid prior to delivering a working system. Unfortunately, we later learned that this claim was untrue. Ampenergo has stated that they had paid him a “significant” amount already.

      Another evidence for truth was when he said he would give units to the 3 researchers at 2 universities. That would certainly convince me. But that hasn’t happened yet. And his statements on the subject have been inconsistent.

      I will be convinced this is real when the 2 universities get e-cats. The 1 MW plant won’t really be evidence of truth. But giving an e-cat to a third party will be. Until that happens, we won’t know whether this is real. But the probability continues to drop as long as he delays on fulfilling this promise. So I’m still waiting.

  • It is fake guys! This is classic scam stalling. If it were real do you think the investors would let him be a fool answering questions on his website!

    • Waiting

      That’s only one of many signs, and it isn’t even the strongest. We don’t yet know whether it is real or a money-making scam. But the evidence so far for the latter includes:

      – Investors let him comment on his blog

      – Claims that he wouldn’t take money until it is shown to work, then we discovered those claims are false.

      – No testing allowed in other labs, not even with Rossi present, even after he promised they could.

      – Claimed gamma rays were not found when independent observers measured.

      – Claimed gamma rays are supposedly stopped by just 2 cm of lead

      – Claim that his “inexpensive” preprocessing changes the isotope ratio of the nickel. This can’t be done chemically. This is VERY hard to do. It’s the reason nukes are so hard to build. A cheap way to do this would be a bigger breakthrough than cold fusion itself. But he merely mentions it casually, in passing.

      – Spent fuel isotope ratios for nickel are the same as in nature, despite the claim that the input fuel has a different isotope ratio. (an incredible coincidence)

      – Spent fuel isotope ratios for copper are the same as in nature (another incredible coincidence)

      – Spent fuel contains no unstable (radioactive) isotopes. But the paths from the supposed input elements to supposed output elements must go through unstable isotopes. And they have long enough half lives, that some of them should still exist afterwards.

      – Claims that he might delay the October launch if necessary to invent the impossible self destruct mechanism. Every engineer knows that’s impossible. Every businessman knows delays are bad. Every con man knows delays are good.

      – A decade ago he actually made money with a scam involving a fake thermocouple. His pattern of behavior so far with the e-cat matches what he did with the thermocouple con.

      – Repeated promises to give e-cats to the two universities have yet to be kept, despite Rossi’s claims that he trusts them, and their vocal public support of him, and his claim that “a signature is close”. His actions don’t match his words.

      These don’t prove the e-cat is fake. They’re just evidence in that direction. And I’m not a pathological skeptic who will reject anything that violates accepted wisdom. I could actually be convinced this is real by one simple act: if Rossi were to keep his promise and give e-cats to the two universities, and the researchers there said they tested it in their own labs and confirmed the claimed excess heat. That’s it. It wouldn’t take much to convince me. Yet he keeps us waiting.

      • Chanchan

        What “Waiting” wrote in the previous comment represents exactly my opinion.

        I understand that Rossi isn’t interested in convincing the general public like us that his device works, so, public and university demonstrations are not his top priority. But on the other hand I don’t belive that investors in general are really more clever than us, after all. History teaches that they can be fooled like anyone else even if they pay technicians to do some private testing.

        It’s clear that now everything revolves around the ‘pixie dust’ that Rossi claims is the real heart of his invention. What happens with this specific secret determines what will happen with the whole invention.
        Maybe after enough delays he will claim some excuse for proclaiming: “Not only I won’t disclose the secret, but I’ll not create the powder anymore!” …Because the world is so mean, because ‘they’ threatened my family, because because etc.

        If this affair turns out to be some sort of scam, I fear that in the future, independent inventors will face even more diffidence than now.

        Academic physicists will not accept anymore to risk their careers for experiments that contain secret black-box inventions.

        The good side of this is that black-box inventions will justly be regarded with more and more suspicion, and in the future this will encourage full sharing of details and open sourcing.

        So, whatever happens, true revolution or scam, in both cases there will be a good outcome.