October 6th, 2011: Rossi’s E-Cat Test Comment Thread

Today, the day of Rossi’s E-Cat testing at the University of Bologna, reminds me of an election day. There’s a lot of anticipation for the day, but while the evant is going on, you don’t hear much — you don’t get the full picture of what is going on until it is all over. I have decided to create this post as kind of a blank page where people can post comments, report snippets of news that they hear as the day goes on.

Here are some links where information about the test might be found.

http://22passi.blogspot.com/ This is Daniele Passerini’s blog. Passerini is present at the test and and apparently will be posting throughout the day.

http://twitter.com/#!/22passi This is Passerini’s Twitter account

PESWiki’s Real Time Updates from the October 6, 2011 E-Cat Test

vortex-l An e-mail discussion archive where people have been paying attention to the E-Cat. One of the posters, Jed Rothwell, is in contact with some of the people involved in the testing.

Focus magazine’s forum for the test Raymond Zreik, of the Italian science magazine Focus is also at the test and has created this forum about it.

So if you hear anything from these, or any other sources, that you feel like sharing, please feel free to post in the comments section below!

Frank Acland

  • Brad Arnold

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/06/e-cat-cold-fusion

    The first (of many hopefully) mainstream media reports on the E-Cat (if you can call the UK website Wired mainstream). In my opinion, the article is balanced, although Krivit is really a downer.

    • Adrian

      I really hope this will work. I’m very excited right now, havent felt light this for a long time. If it works it will change the world.

  • Paolo

    I will translate some Passerini tweet:

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    Soon I will give you a nice gift! 🙂

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    Radio24 arrived too: great Maurizio Melis! 🙂

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    There is Confindustria as well, a delegation from Piacenza.

    (ndt: Confindustia is greatest association of italian industries)

    • Daniele Gres

      for the moment what is happening strenghtens the hope that this is an hystorical great step for mankind and not only a hoax like many people suspect

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    Reactor in self-sustain mode!!

  • Marcos

    Please, keep posting updates here!

  • Maverikie

    Thank you Paolo for the translations. I’m following it closely.

    I hope the results are positive!!

  • John

    I echo those sentiments, keep up the good work, Paolo!

  • Paolo

    There are no more tweet so far…

  • Francesco CH

    Basically, if the reactor stay in self sustain mode for at least one hour then it is fully 100% working and the test can be considered a superb success

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    And here i am, face to face with a 1MW plant

    • Renzo

      This is another fact that we didn’t know: Rossi has another 1MW plant already assembled! 🙂 AFAIK the first one has already been shipped to the customer in USA so it cannot be the same one…

    • Renzo

      Passerini has answere that it is the same plant :S

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    yfrog.com/h86vypyrj

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    Raymond Zreick interview prof. Sergio Focardi

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    I can twit from my iPhone… I got problems , instead, to connect with my internet-key: weak signal 🙁

  • albert

    Hey all.
    Just wanted to clarify that the university of bologna has nothing to do with today’s test.
    “The university is not involved with the demo by Rossi tomorrow and is not providing any university facility or laboratory.” (Paolo Capiluppi, head of the Physics Department, UoB)

  • Paolo

    I hope my translations are good enough….

    • Marcos

      Keep posting Paolo. It’s very interesting.

  • stuart bradbury

    Is the unit still self sustaining?

    • Francesco CH

      For Stuart Bradbury:

      YEAH YES JA OUI SI’ ! ! !

      MORE THAN 2 HOURS IN SELF SUSTAINING MODE ! ! !

  • Paolo

    22passi Daniele Passerini
    Mats Lewan and Raymond Zreick are talking over the self-sustain phase still running.

    • Johannes Hagel

      This would already be a new record! Very good!

  • Francesco CH

    YEAH YES JA OUI SI’ ! ! !

    MORE THAN 2 HOURS IN SELF SUSTAINING MODE ! ! !

    • Johannes Hagel

      Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss! Do we have any information about output power in kW ???

      • Francesco CH

        Tomorrow

        The first source will be Ny Teknik, then all the others will be free to publish everything!!!

    • John

      Two hours? Where did you get this information?

      Thanks.

  • Paolo

    I have to leave you…sorry guys. I hope I have been useful….

    • georgehants

      Paolo, Thank you, you helped to make hopefully a wonderful day,

  • Francesco CH
  • Moacir Alves do Nascimento

    This is astonishing!

    Two hours with the input power turned off, and the water in the secondary is still getting warmed by the device?

    Amazing!

    I can’t wait to read tomorrow in the reports the balance between input joules and output joules. The figure in joules will be much more interesting than the figure in watts, because during the time when the input power is turned off there are no input joules to be measured, but there are a lot of output joules coming out!

    Please, I beg people who are in the lab taking the measurements and writing the reports to take a measurement in kilo-joules. How many kilo-joules of input, and how many kilo-joules of output. Please.

  • Franconoviello@hotmail.com

    Passeri is still there & in good shape… he posted a coffee machine picture… and called it ” Kivrit’s Coffe Machine “….. may the secret ingredient be…. coffee? lol

    • Krivit’s coffee machine — That’s funny! For those who don’t get the joke, when the infamous Steve Krivit did his quickie-cam video he noted that when the demo was over, the coffee machine, on a rolling cart, was wheeled out of the room. He found this to be evidence that Rossi is bogus.

      • Sojourner Soo

        @ Bruce: Thanks for the info. I was wondering what that coffee maker thing was all about.

    • Pietrus Pedrone

      Kivrit’s Coffe Machine “….. HA HA HA

      Krivit is an ass

      HA HA HA

  • John

    Is it STILL running in self sustain mode?? We’re closing in on two and a half hours now…

    • Renzo

      Passerini on his blog has just confirmed 3 hours of self sustain mode

      • John

        Good Lord…

        I can’t take the suspense, we need results already!!

        • Johannes Hagel

          That sound much better than I ever expected! 3 hours!!! If we only knew the energy balances! Then given the volume of the reactor we could compute how long it has still to run before any chemical energy sources can be excluded!

  • This is scary, I promised Craig Binns that I’d provide him with Worcestershire sauce for his Glasgow bunnet when this thing was confirmed. I’ll be needing to provide a lot of sauce, so I think I’m in the poor house.

  • Franco

    No news at the moment. But I’ ll translate as soon as I get more info from Passerini twits

  • Franco

    From Passerni… he is still there and… the E-Cat goes on in autosustaining

    • Franco

      he confirms again… The E-Cat module keeps working in self-sustained mode

  • Kevin Stabel

    This is most exciting!
    Thank you for the updates Franco. I am following mr. Passerini on twitter.
    If the test is positive, it will change the world! This is possible history in the making.

    -Kevin

    • Franco

      Yes I still keep my fingers crossed…. what a strange day but le’s “Stay hungry, stay foolish”

  • Renzo

    Passerini has just writtern in the comments of his blog that the self-sustainining is continuous, without further electrical inputs!!!!!!

    • Renzo

      We are at 4 or more hours in self-sustaining mode without periodic electrical inputs, and at the end of the day they will dissasemble the device to measure its components. I think all people agree that, if this is confirmed, it is way beyond any possibile scam or self delusion. With such a result it would not even be necessary to make all calculations!

      • “it is way beyond any possibile scam” Unless Rossi has developed some cool form of power transmission. However, if he has he would do better just to market the cool form of power transmission.

      • s

        Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but I thought they were planning to open the device and measure the components BEFORE the test started also. Not to be too picky, but only measuring after the test would mean any internal fuel would be exhausted. I will assume they will measure the insides of the device both before and after any tests.

        • Renzo

          This is not confirmed yet, but any internal fuel would require an exhaust for the fumes so we can rule it out

          • Renzo

            Passerini has written that the E-Cat has only been weighted before the test

  • Martin6078

    That are really good news. Thank to all, which supported this forum, especially Franco for promptly translation…
    We are all more or less witnesses of these historical event! It´s a blame for the mainstream media, who have lost this moment for ever!
    Regardless of jumping on E-Cat train or not by them, they have missed the historically moment. They weren´t present at irretriveable manner.
    My wife and I will open a good bottle of wine later and drinking about the E-Cat and its creaters. Chers to all.
    Warm regards: Martin

    • “We are all more or less witnesses of these historical event!” What “more or less”, this is the biggest historical event you or I have ever witnessed. Its the biggest we will witness unless human teleportation is invented.

      “It´s a blame for the mainstream media, who have lost this moment for ever.” Have no fear, they’ll get on board for the 1mw plant, and claim that it is the big moment.

      Nothin’ to see here folks, move along.

  • Franco

    Tomorrow anyway it goes will be released the list of the participants , about 30. so check Passerini’s blog!

  • Stephen

    Has Passerini updated any details about power output or just that it is running without any input? For how long has it been self-sustaining now? 4 hours?

    • Renzo

      Now it’s more than 4 hours, Passerini has promised to not reveal any technical details before the report by NyTeknyk. Howewer he has written that the device is too hot to touch (like a coffee machine) and the people seem impressed by the output

  • My favorite stock, Cyclone power (cypw) hasn’t noticed the news yet. Obviously those of us who are watching are very few. Either that or we can’t figure out why a steam engine designed to replace a car engine is a big deal right now.

    • crj

      I think that the Cyclone Power steam engine needs super heated steam, so the Rossi device will not be a suitable heat source.

      The JTEC from Lonnie Johnson seems to be the most suitable way to get useful energy from heat, at least once it is fully developed. It converts heat to electricity with a > 50% efficiency.

      See http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/super-soaker-inventor-invents-new-thermoelectric-generator

    • rantanplan

      I don’t think steam engines for cars are necessary. Today we have an infrastructure of gas stations which we can use. Cars can be easy modified to use hydrogen which the ecat can make out of water and be sold at gas stations. No new cars needed and no jobs lost at gas stations.

  • Renzo

    Post by Passerini:
    “ALLE 19, DOPO 4 ORE DI AUTOSOSTENTAMENTO CONTINUATIVO, LA REAZIONE E’ STATA INTERROTTA COME DA PROGRAMMA. QUESTO PERMETTERA’ DI AVERE IL TEMPO AFFINCHE’ IL MODULO E-CAT SI RAFFREDDI. POI POTRA’ ESSERE SMONTATO E CONTROLLATO. LA FINE DELLE OPERAZIONI E’ PREVISTA PER LE 24.”

    “At 7pm, after 4 hours in continuous self sustaining mode, the reaction has been stopped as planned. This will buy enough time for the E-Cat to cool off. Then it will be dissasembled and controlled. The end of the operations is expected by 12pm”

  • Jurandir

    What exactly “self-sustain mode” means in this case?

    Is there a continuous flux of cold water being inserted in the circuit and being warmed some dozens of degrees Celsius?

    The Delta T, the difference of temperature between the cold water that enters the secondary circuit and the hot water that exits the circuit, is it constant? Or this Delta T is geting smaller with time?

  • Kevin Stabel

    Self sustain means they cut power to the resistor heating the reactor chamber.

  • Wes

    Here’s to Andrea Rossi, the “Steve Jobs” of the new LENR revolution!!!

  • JPCCUSA

    A correction to Renzo’s last comment, it should read “The end of the operations is expected by 12AM.”

    So exciting!!!

    • Renzo

      Of course, sorry in Italy we use 0-24 hours and when I translate in english I get confused 🙂

      • Gary

        2400hrs works 🙂

      • Luca Salvarani

        Scusami Renzo ma non ho capito bene; quindi adesso l’E-cat non sta più riscaldando l’acqua?

        • Renzo

          Adesso no, l’hanno fatto andare da solo per 4 ore di seguito dopo aver tolto la corrente. Ha funzionato fino alle 19. Adesso lo lasciano raffredare e poi lo smontano per controllare e pesare i pezzi. Pensavo che il test sarebbe stato più lungo ma visto che viene tutto pesato direi che è un tempo più che sufficiente per escludere trucchi. Comunque domani ci sarà il rapporto su NyTeknyk con tutti i dati in ingresso e in uscita per fare un calcolo preciso del rendimento

  • Hope for the best….keep the finger crossed from China

  • Stephen

    So is the E-Cat still running sans input or has the test been discontinued?

  • Renzo

    A twit by raymond zreick:
    “dalle 15 alle 19 il differenziale di temperatura medio è stato di 5 °C (tra acqua in entrata e acqua in uscita), per 0,6 m cubi/ora”
    “between 3pm and 7pm the median difference in temperature has been 5° (between water in input and water in output) , with 0,6 cubic meters/hour”

    • Jeff

      So the amount of energy transfered to the water in the form of heat was 5*4*0.6 *10^6*4.1= 50 MJ or 14kWhr. For reference this is about the amount of thermal energy released by burning 1.5L of gasoline. I don’t know how big the inner chamber on the e-cat is, but that doesn’t seem like it’s good enough to exclude a hidden chemical fuel.

      • Luca Salvarani

        You aren’t considering that the e-cat will be open and every components (except the core) will be weighted…. so the volume with a potential hidden source is much smaller. I’m not an expert but I’m sure that this conclusion will be confirmed with no doubts.

        • Jeff

          It depends on how large the core is. 1.5L is not a very large volume, 10cm x 10cm x 15cm. I’d be surprised if the core were smaller than that.

      • Paul

        Jeff I challenge you to build a device that heats water in a closed loop and exchanges that heat through a heat-exchanger to water running at the same rate as the test. You only get 3L of gasoline to fuel it and it must heat the cooling water by 5C. It must run for at least an hour on the 3L of gasoline. I bet you can’t do it.

    • Johannes Hagel

      … which means 3.5 KW of average output power in self sustain mode for 4 hours, right? So 15KWh produced. Is it enough to exclude chemical sources? I would have liked to see it running for a longer period. But anyway, the time span of self sustain was a record!

      • Luca Salvarani

        Probably because this time the e-cat will be open… Passerini writes that it’s very hot so this needs time to cool down the device and weight its components! It’ seems that the e-cat could further work… so if they have interrupted it, they already have gotten the wished results.
        Thanks to your technical know how could you comment the results when they will be public?

    • Please double-check my calculations.

      1 calorie = energy to heat 1 gram (1 cubic centimeter (cc)) of water by 1 degree celcious.
      1 cubic meter of water = 1,000,000 cc. (100 * 100 * 100)
      0.6 * 1,000,000 = 600,000cc of water per hour
      600,000 / 3600 = 166 cc per second. (600,000 cc per hour of water = 166 cc per second)
      166cc * 5 degrees = 833 calories/second.

      1 calorie = 4.2 joules
      833 * 4.2 = 3500 joules / second
      1 joule / second = 1 watt
      3500 watts or 3.5kw.

      • I got about the same numbers from my calculation.
        For this small version of E-Cat this result is optimal.

        You can heat in 4 hours 2400L by 5 °C, or 240L by 50 °C, from 20°C to 70°C.
        This would be optimal for every home used water boiler,
        which would run probably 4 hours at night, but without using any electric energy, because of now self-sustained operation.

    • s

      I’m seeing 50.2MJoules for the 4 hours in sustain mode. This is about a kg of gasoline. Obviously, the residual energy as the delta T in the heat exchanger goes to zero has to be added. Also, the net energy prior to self sustain (if any) has to be added. So, I won’t make any conclusions until then. What I will say is that the excess energy per hour of ~12.5MJ/ hour is less than half of my baseline of ~27MJ per hour. So, depending on the weight that could not be inspected for fuel before the test, it’s possible the test did not run long enough to be conclusive.

      • I think you are incorrect. As long as the heat exchanger system was stable — input heat remained constant, the heat exchanger itself was up to full heat etc, the residual energy should be equal to the prior energy.

        In any case, we are not going to get anywhere close to an order of magnitude more power. For this test to be successful, an “order of magnitude” error must be found. Did raymond zreick mis-report the numbers? Was there 10 times the volume of water? Did the water raise by 50 deg rather than 5?

        These results are concerning. I’ll be reading the NyTeknic report carefully when it comes out.

        • s

          I may well be incorrect but my statement was based on the fact that it was mentioned the new Ecat has an internal water volume of ~30kg. If any of this water was heated by the core but had not made it to the heat exchanger by the time the reactor was shut off, it would not be counted as energy if you stop measurement at core shutoff. I also mention measuring the excess energy before the electrical input was turned off because one can’t assume this is a steady state test. Maybe the median delta T was ~5C. But, if it varied non-linearly around 5C , it might make a difference in the results. I’m only concerned about total excess energy produced and mass that could possibly contain fuel.

          • Jeff

            An additional 30 kg of water is not going to be significant (assuming it remains liquefied) compared to the other 2400kg of water used in the test

          • s

            I am speaking of water in the primary ecat circuit while you are talking about water in the secondary loop. They have different flow rates.

    • s

      It’s probably best to wait one more day for the report to see the official test numbers. The test setup could have changed from what we expected.

  • AK

    That equals approx 1.5l of oil.

    • but if you use oil to heat, you would loose some energy through the chimney (85% efficiency), so you would need more oil of course, about 1,76l

  • Dave C.

    Another twit by raymond zreick:

    Quando la macchina sarà ragionevolmente fredda (il vapore si è mantenuto sempre sopra i 110 °C) la macchina sarà SMONTATA davanti a noi!!!!!

    When the device is reasonably cold (steam was always kept above 110 ° C), the machine will be unmounted before us !!!!!

    How is the output steam kept at 110 deg C and the delta T between input and output was only 5 deg??? Doesn’t seem reasonable to me. I would have guessed the water input was not pre-heated (e.g. something close to room temperature). These reports don’t seem consistent. Perhaps the delta T should have been 50 deg C (not 5 deg)??? That would have made more sense.

    • I believe that they were running the steam through a heat exchanger. The delta t was in the water running through the heat exchanger.

  • I admit that I am a bit confused. 3.5kw is a significant amount of energy, 14kw/h output in 4 hours is significant. However, I understood that this was to be a 35kw unit, we seem to be out by an order of magnitude from what was expected.

    • Fred L

      It’s perfectly correct. The amount of energy is calculated after the heat exchanger, there’s a lot of energy lost in the heat exchanger. If the device developped 14kWh on the secondary circuit (water), the device should have produced close to 25kWh if not more in the primary circuit (steam).

    • I really don’t believe that the heat exchanger is only 50% efficient. I would assume that it is much more like 90% efficient. Further, for the results to meet the promise, the heat exchanger needs to be only 10% efficient. I can make a 10% efficient heat exchanger with wood.

      • Fred L

        It’s just speculation but maybe they had to reduce de power of the reactor because the steam was confined inside a closed circuit and not allowed to flow outside. Therefore the reactor should not produce more heat than the heat exchanger can actually “exchange” with the secondary circuit.

      • John Dlouhy

        No doubt Bruce. Just passing the steam pipe through a pail of water would transfer more than 10% of the heat. Cutting this test short is a major disappointment and there’s just no other way to look at it.

    • simone

      where did you read that it is a 35kw unit?

  • lenr

    This is just stupid. I don’t care about self sustained mode or the internal configuration. The device should have been kept running until any possible chemical source can be excluded. What idiot had the idea to interrupt it after 4h? 14kWh from a 80kg unit are ludicrous.

    • Fred L

      Actually, it would be better to interrupt the reaction after a fair amout of time so that if the heat was coming from a chemical reaction of any kind, there will be a left over, if the E-CAT was left running until it dies then if there was a chemical reaction inside, the reacting matter would have been exhausted. I think that this test was perfectly done to get the results needed to avoid any kind of hoax. Moreover the fact that they will open the box except for the “little” black box with the secret catalyzer, I’m pretty sure there will be no doubt about the reality of the cold fusion or low energy nuclear reaction.

      • John Dlouhy

        That’s a silly rationalization Fred. Who’s to say Rossi didn’t interrupt it after the depletion of some internal fuel? If the reactor can run for 6 MONTHS without refueling, surely it could run for 6 HOURS! Or maybe more than 12 like Rossi had indicated.

        • Fred L

          Apparently the decision to stop the reaction after 4h was “planned”, so you get a point here. I know that 4h30 in self-sustained mode for something having the potential (as asserted by Rossi) to run 12h is dissapointing but the test would have had to run 2 days, and for al the scientists and journalists there that was probably pratically difficult to organize. Even if I’m keeping a skeptical approach, at this point I really don’t see the point for Rossi to run a hoax that have already cost him his house and more or less all the money he has.

          • Jeff

            Then why bother to organize the test at all? A test showing 14kwh of energy produced from a device of that size proves absolutely nothing. And it wouldn’t have been that hard to do a longer test. Just keep people rotating in such that someone is always there watching it. And it would have been trivially easy to organize a 12 hour test rather than a 4 hour test.

  • Sunda

    So fishy. Looks like a scam.

    • Hampus

      I think it looks like a cat. The e-Cat

  • Luca Salvarani

    From Passerini

    THe ecat Has been opening right now and then every components will be weight… so you can exclude any hidden energy source!

    • John Dlouhy

      Thanks for the update Luca. Rossi said it would be opened before and after the test and that it would run for more than 12 hours. Its nice to see he’s doing at least one thing that he said he would.

  • Almir

    If those results are confirmed, it’s a big deception.

    I’m very sad about those results. Not even close to what I was expecting…

    Only 5 degress Celsius of Delta T? This is not good…

    • Do remember that there was significant water flow, over 2.5 gallons per minute. Stick 2.5 gallons of water on your stove, read the temperature, heat it for 1 minute, and measure the temperature again. It won’t be heated by 5 degrees celsius (about 10 degrees fahrenheit), if your stove is really hot it’ll be about 1/2 that. (Actually you may achieve 10 deg. farenheit with a propane stove).

      Its not what we were hoping for, but its far from nothing.

      • Bill Nichols

        Agree. Water has a very high heat capacity.

        The report should provide specific numbers and setups. Qualitatively, appears to not be a trivial amount.

        The next day or so should be quite interesting to say the least.

  • Elenias

    What about the time BEFORE the device was put in self-sustain mode?

    In the time BEFORE the input power was cut, what was the mean Delta T?

    • Good question. However, I don’t think we’ll get answers to this and other questions until NyTeknik reports their findings.

  • Wes

    If correct, it would likely mean that Rossi was never able to progress much beyond Piantelli’s results. It would also mean that the current e-cat is not commercially viable source of energy. However, it would confirm the potential to unlock a significant source of energy, once the Ni-H effect was understood and optimized. There is too much “smoke” here for there not to be some real fire.

  • Luca Salvarani

    From Passerini

    He writes that people’s face were nervous this morning but then turned very relaxed…. this seems a confirmation og good rusults….. I’m not an expert, waiting for all definitive results!

  • s

    Perhaps, they decided to run this test with a single one of the smaller type cores from earlier tests. Or, they just decided to dial down the power from maximum due to the fact that guests were present. In either of those cases, the test might have conclusively passed.

  • Roger Barker

    Did they weigh the eCat before and after the tests? Hidden fuel has not been ruled out as far as I can see.

    • Renzo

      Yes they did, both before and after

  • Fred L

    According to Raymond Zreick, they could see the internal of the E-CAT, he was dissapointed because there is nothing hi-tech inside. They can’t take picture of the opened E-CAT. He mentionned that they could not see inside de “core” but he said nothing about the size of that “black box”. Daniele Passerini has twetted that they are currently verifying the calibration of the thermocouples by cooling them down with ice. No information about the delta of the weight.

  • Luca Salvarani

    From Passerini

    There are other controls right now..

  • Roger Barker

    The amount of energy produced by this device and the duration of the test is VERY DISAPPOINTING to say the least. The eCat is a device which is supposed to run continuously for 6 months without the need for refuelling yet they only ran the test for 4 hours?!.

    • Luca Salvarani

      The only possibility is that they have already reached the desired results and want enough time to examine the interior of the device. If not it didn’t make sense stopping it only after 4 hours. Some comments on 22 passi d’amore blog explained that the result (acording to partial information we have) is good or very good, but I can’t translate and even understand those comments…. so i’ll wait the definitive report before speak. For example a lot depends on the amount of input energy…. that we still do’t know! I have waited many monts… so i can also wait few more hours to listen the expert that know all dates of the experiment!

    • They turned it off! It didn’t run out of gas.

  • Franco

    Passerini is going home and says….. ” I ‘m going home! Beautiful day, to remember. Thanks to you all and to the next… ”
    So let’s wait for tomorrow…

  • D2

    Guys; please quit jumping to conclusions. sheesh, the thing hasn’t even cooled off and speculation flying everywhere!

    • JPCCUSA

      I agree very much!

  • bigzer

    Keep in mind they all started the day at 7AM (some of the attendent are pretty old)… it’s late now, the test is likely conclusive with the numbers and was designed to be long enough to rule out cheats. We’ll see those numbers tomorrow :).

    Symple math:

    how big is the black box, how mutch energy was produced, can the volume of the black box generate this energy with a chemical reaction without electricity? Yes No, tomorrow we’ll know ^^

    • lenr

      Yeah, because it is impossible that there might have been a reactant outside of the magic box which has been used up during the 4 hours? Did they inspect the cat before test start?

  • Luca Salvarani

    From Passerini

    His last comment on twitter seems very positive…. Even he writes that “this is a day to put into a frame”….

  • Fred L

    Latest post on Daniele’s blog : I see someone who continues to judge that is thought to be rather than what it is. Meanwhile, Bologna and Uppsala go forward, confident and even more convinced today than yesterday.

    The E-Cat warms, but the party is just beginning. It’s a metaphor, of course, here it’s over an hour and a half in advance and we’re all leaving. I put my bike in between myself and a maximum of 3 hours I’ll be home. Good evening to all.

    Over the next few days (but already starting tomorrow) will be released so much material produced here today that all the skeptics of the world are likely to go seriously overdose!

  • DH

    The first recipient of a 1mw plant is going to be a bit disappointed with the 0.1mw they actually get. I’m going to need 10 of these to heat my house. Better start extending my boiler house.

    • Franco

      What about the first’s Wright flight?…. was a disappointment too… but anyway we’ve got only to wait with crossed fingers.

  • jarek

    Have they checked the incoming water? Maybe there could be some chemicals carrying chemical energy released by reacting with something inside the reactor?

    • Baabaablacksheep

      Maybe theres aliens hiding in the ceiling shooting invisible laser energy beams into the e-cat! yeah thats it.

      • I’m saying that if they see only thermometer and flow meter on a closed pipe, there remain possibility of something added to that huge amount of water (over cubic meter) … like hydrogen, but probably there are also more sophisticated chemicals, which could react with something inside the reactor …
        Before verifying your alien theory, maybe you should try ruling out simpler ones?

  • bigzer

    DH, you’re funny, you have no data, almost no information and you’re hopping to drastic conclusions heh.

    • D2

      My thoughts exactly!

  • rantanplan

    I think he wanted to show them 4 hours of self sustain mode.
    For self sustain mode lower energy seems to be better due to stability. So he made that the last 4 hours for the ecat to not be too hot so it can cool down faster. (for disassembling) We know from other tests that the e-cats can do better like 10 Kw and up. So he made that the first hours from the start on. Because of higher energy the e-cat is not so stable so he used the heater for stability.
    Together I hope we will see tomorrow a nice energy balance.

  • Hampus

    I think it is time for every1 who didn’t believe in Rossi to eat there hat =). Today is the hat eating day. hurray hurray.

    4 hours of selfsustaining =) =) =). You can not find a happier man.

    Tomorrow this news will be everywhere.

  • LC

    I smell fishiness, too. Is the Salmon done?

    So, the reasoning for 4 hours is to give it time to cool? Hum?. Why couldn’t he run it through the night and cool it down to open it the next day? The spectators could take shifts watching, if they are too old to pull an all nighter. That would at least reduce the suspicion that the black box “core” contains something of the nature of a catalyst to produce exothermic oxidation or crystallization. My tiny had warmers put out some nice heat for a good 4 hours (and weigh about the same before and after use).

    What I can’t figure out, is why someone would spend his life saving on an elaborate hoax. That doesn’t make sense, either.

  • Achi

    So the device ran for 4 hours on self sustain mode. We still don’t know how long it ran assisted, and the amount of energy produced during that time period. It may be enough to disclude, or help disclude, chemical sources. But even I’m disappointed at the length of today’s test.

  • Hampus

    stop being so pessimistic. Every1 that have actually been there and have reported on it are very very optimistic. Tomorrow nytekniks article will come out and we will see all the numbers. because we dont know how long it actually was running.

    I know that is works because http://yfrog.com/user/22passi/profile says it works. And if anything would have gone wrong we would have heard about it.

    Plus there were 30 experts in the room I think they know what they were doing.

  • rantanplan

    Mr. Passerini writes in his blog:

    @ All I see someone who continues to judge that is thought to be rather than what it is. Meanwhile, Bologna and Uppsala go forward, confident and even more convinced today than yesterday.

    The E-Cat warms, but the party is just beginning. It’s a metaphor, of course, here it’s over an hour and a half in advance and we’re all leaving. I put my bike in between myself and a maximum of 3 hours I’ll be home. Good evening to all.

    Over the next few days (but already starting tomorrow) will be released so much material produced here today that all the skeptics of the world are likely to go seriously overdose!

  • Augusto

    Even if the E-Cat can create real Cold Fusion, and generate excess heat, the experiment from today shows that it’s very far from being ready to the market.

    The small amount of energy produced shows that, even if it works, it’s not even remotely commercially viable yet.

    • D2

      Augusto

      How exactly does todays experiment show ” the experiment from today shows that it’s very far from being ready to the market” and “The small amount of energy produced shows that, even if it works, it’s not even remotely commercially viable yet.” We don’t even know the details of the experiment. Have you ever heard the saying “don’t get the cart before the horse.” I think it applies here. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m not saying you’re right but as for me I’m reserving judgment until I know more – a lot more!

  • Johannes Hagel

    We have seen (or have been reported) of 3.5 KW of power (lower limit) having been generated for the duration of 4 hours in self sustain mode. I am not a chemist but from spot I cannot think of an exothermic chemical reaction producing 14KWh in 4 hours without leading to any exhaustion? Or is it possible to hide exhaustion of the expected amount inside of a closed room with 30 people in it who dont even smell anything strange there? Hm.

    • The reaction of hydrogen and water produces only H2O which happens to be the output of e-cat.

  • bigzer

    It’s an experiment, it’s not build to work in optimal conditions. Remember the demonstrated ecat is the OLD ecat, not the new version.
    Why did he chose the old one? Probably because it’s easyer to open and dissasemble.

    • Where do you get your information that this is an OLD e-cat?

  • Wes

    Show’s over for now. For some “e-cat comedy” click http://www.ecat.com.

  • daniel maris

    Shame we are getting such confused and vague reports.

    Firstly someone says it was the old E cat being tested. I thought it was a module from the 1MW plant that was being tested.

    Secondly no one has officially declared the test a success or not. It would be nice to hear what Rossi thinks.

    Thirdly it would be nice to have some guidance on what to expect. How much energy is put in at the beginning?; how much “fuel” is used? and how much does it cost?; how long could the reaction be expected to continue if it wasn’t shut down?

    Oh well, guess we have to wait. Is Ny Teknik the place to look then for results?

    • Yes, and rest assured that as soon as NyTeknik gets it up this site will have a link, or a post.

  • bigzer

    “Secondly no one has officially declared the test a success or not. It would be nice to hear what Rossi thinks. ”

    I think that when a scientist present at the facility say ” it’s a day to frame on the wall” or ” everyone was stressed but now everyone has a big smile” pretty mutch resumes the general feeling of the 30 scientists present. Also note that they all decided to end the test earlyer as they where satisfied of the results who ruled out any possible chemical reaction.

    This thing is real, the world is about to change weather you beleve it now or not ^^

    • daniel maris

      Bigzer –

      I’m an enthusiast. I’ve been following the story since January. I am as convinced as a non-scientist who has no access to observe the equipment could be that something genuine is happening.

      But it wouldn’t be that difficult for Rossi to post on his journal or elsewhere some guidance on what’s going on, rather than give occasional, somewhat Sphinx-like answers.

      I hope the world is about to change. Might change the weather as well.

      We’ll see what emerges over the next few days.

  • Paul

    Jeff I challenge you to build a device that heats water in a closed loop and exchanges that heat through a heat-exchanger to water running at the same rate as the test. You only get 3L of gasoline to fuel it and it must heat the cooling water by 5C. It must run for at least an hour on the 3L of gasoline. I bet you can’t do it.

    • Jeff

      Of course I can’t do it myself, that’s not the point. It was suggested that this test would be, once and for all, the test where earlier measurement errors were rectified and the e-cat would be conclusively shown to be facilitating some kind of nuclear reaction. The test as run simply hasn’t accomplished that. A test of a 27kW e-cat running for 24 hours would have done that (assuming the black box isn’t huge). Running a 3.5 kW e-cat for 4 hours does not.

      • Paul

        I’m giving you 8 times the chemical energy needed to heat the water you only need a total efficiency of 12.5%. Come on it should be easy.

      • Paul

        Now you understand the difficulty in faking it. You can’t fathom how to do it with an unlimited sized device to do it that doesn’t have to be hidden. Let alone how to build it small enough to be hidden in the E-Cat. Four hours was plenty of time to demonstrate there are no tricks involved. If it is trickery then I just as interested in how it is done because it it still one great heat source he has “hidden” in his device.

        • Jeff

          The quality of the “hidden heat source” is what’s at issue here. When doing a black box test, as Rossi is insisting on (understandably), the only thing that can really be ascertained are the quality of the hidden heat source. The problem with this test, is that Rossi just hasn’t proven that his heat source is any more energy dense than oil.

          And I really don’t get what you’re trying to prove by demonstrating that I can’t construct a fake device. I am also incapable of constructing a device to catalyze a cold fusion reaction. Or a car or a homemade rocket or a fire for that matter.

          The real question here is what is easier to construct in an absolute sense a cold fusion reactor or a hidden chemical reaction that can heat up water evenly with 50% efficiency.

          If Rossi had run his reactor for 24 hours rather than 4 hours the comparison would have been between a cold fusion reactor and a chemical reaction operating at 300% efficiency.

          But he didn’t.

          • Paul

            I was trying to get you to understand just how much energy really is being created in the test. The reaction in the E-Cat used is likely in the 27KW range. It is very inefficient to heat water to stream the heat more water through a heat-exchanger so getting 3.5KW out means a whole lot more energy was needed at the other end. I think you would need something like 12L of gasoline as fuel to maintain 3.5KW for 4 hours. Do you see room for 12L of fuel plus the mechanism to burn it?

          • Paul, you really don’t know anything about thermodynamics or thermodynamic efficiency, do you.

          • Paul

            Sorry about the delay in getting back to you I closed my browser without saving the page. I admit I am not an expert at thermodynamics and I am taking some wild ass guesses for my numbers, but until you or Jeff explain to me how to convert the chemical energy from 1.5L of fuel in a 1L space without outside oxidizer and no exhaust point with 100% conversion of chemical energy to thermal energy through a complex system then my wags are more believable than your ‘Magical fuel burner’ that must be inside the E-Cat if you are correct that it is fueled by petroleum. Please bring out a demo of your magical burner that does not need oxygen, an exhaust point and manages to fold space to hold the fuel and the device in a space smaller than the materials required to build it and fuel it normally take up in the non-magical world we leave in, the world could really use it.

  • It says on another blog

    “Daniele Passerini has posted information about a previous test of the E-Cat performed on July 7, 2011, which has been kept quiet until now. The test showed operation of the device in self sustain mode. The test had to be cut short, due to a power outage. Lets hope that there is not a power outage during today’s test.

    http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/10/test-e-cat-7-luglio-2011.html

    I want this to be true but I am wondering why the power outage stopped the previous test.? I thought it ran without electricity?

    • just my own thoughts:

      it is necessary to cool down the E-Cat with water, or it will overheat.
      To transport water, they used a electric water pump.

      One way to shut down the E-Cat should be to disconnect hydrogen supply from core and vent it.

      • Andras

        Or just drop the pressure and the reaction will stop.
        It must be done otherwise the reaction overheats the device.

  • david

    I am really enjoying the skeptics who feel they know more about this thing by reading or watching a video than the actual people who are there, on the ground looking at it.

    It must be that the moment a person gets an invitation to a demonstration they lose 50 IQ points and all of the scientific knowledge they have learned. Maybe the ECAT hypnotizes them into believing that a rock is making all of that steam.

    lol…..even if the thing does work and does change the world they will still gripe and say it isn’t really “fusion” Some people won’t let go of their pre-conceived notions but if it makes them feel better they should remember that Newton did get gravity completely right, Einstein didn’t predict dark energy and just maybe neutrinos travel faster than light.
    Lesson, when you are that sure you are right always consider the possibility that just maybe there is something you missed.

    • Stephen

      Here, here, sir.

      It boggles the mind that some think we’ve reached the end of new scientific discoveries.

      I believe in 1895 the head of the British Royal Society, then the leading scientific body in the world, said that heavier than air flight was impossible. Eight years later Orville and Wilbur Wright said it wasn’t.

      Fingers crossed that Rossi and Focardi have found the new fire.

  • Martin6078

    Congratulation Mr. Andrea Rossi. Obvirorsly the test was a big success.I´m anticipate detailed test results and datasheets of course.
    But I´ m wondering why an old prototye was used and not one new “fat cat” of the 27KW size?

  • John Salinger

    Message from Rossi on his site:

    Andrea Rossi
    October 7th, 2011 at 3:49 AM
    DEAR ALL:
    I THANK ALL OUR READERS FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT I RECEIVED: SHOULD I BE ABLE TO TURN YOUR PASSION INTO ENERGY, WE COULD FUEL ALL THE HIGH SPEED TRAINS OF EUROPE WITH IT.
    THE TEST IS GONE. WE FINISHED AROUND MIDNIGHT YESTERDAY, THIS MORNING AT SIX WE HAD TO RESTART THE WORK ON THE 1 MW PLANT.
    WE WILL NOT PUBLISH A REPORT, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT TIME TO DO IT, BUT YOU WILL FIND REPORTS IN MANY OTHER BLOGS AND IN THE SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINES WHICH ATTENDED THE TEST: NYTEKNIK AND FOCUS.
    WARM REGARDS TO ALL.
    ANDREA ROSSI

  • JJP

    It simply works.
    Now strong and “obscure” interest groups will try everything to suppress or ban the Rossi’s technology as “potentially dangerous”, I presume. Even attack ad personam or some kind of force majure accident is not excluded.

    But Rossi is shielded, and he will prevail. I know that.

  • whatever

    The NyTeknik article

    http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece

    which contains a link to a “detailed report”

    http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3284962.ece/BINARY/Test+of+E-cat+October+6+%28pdf%29

    and a link to “temperature data>

    http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3284968.ece/BINARY/Temp+data+Ecat_6_10_11+%28xls%29

    [Apologies if the hyperlinks or formatting don’t work; I’m new in town.]

  • Please tell me that someone looked at the temperature of the water going in to the catalyzer. That is a source of energy too. And did anyone check the plumbing of the heat exchanger? It looks to me like the water was not flowing through the heat exchanger at all — the output water that was five degrees warmer was actually just coming straight out of the catalyzer and the input water was being piped down the drain. Why wasn’t the water supplying the catalyzer in a closed loop? Before this test I was a 65% believer. Now I am a 5% believer — I hold out a sliver of hope that there were people there both honest and competent enough to verify that these obvious things were not issues.

  • Lou Tengzelius

    Sudden clarity. The early E-Cats were copper tubes containing reaction mixture. Heat from a resistance wire wound around them is supplied by a variable 60 cycle power source. Heat to begin the reaction and then power down to maintain the alternating magnetic field within. The Brillouin web site confirms use of pulsed magnetic fields having catalytic effects. The iron powder contained in the Rossi reaction mix as a finely divided ferromagnetic agent capable of energizing the nickel in preparation for pseudo neutron absorption. How clever of the LENR advocates to adjust temperature, pressure, pulse generation and reaction quantity resulting in opening a new era of opportunity and profit. Then the world of 20th century Physics is turned upside down with undeniable concepts from not only Guglinski, Santilli, Fleishman/Pons and Rossi but many more who suffered through the experiences of being on the outside of “conventions”. A remarkable and dramatic revolution has begun. I still struggle with attempts to clarify a theoretical, mathematical and geometric representation of ether space, two electrons, a proton, a nucleus, all known forces and the transformations which yield what we call Cold Fusion. Lou Tengzelius

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