October 28th E-Cat Test Pre-Game Thread (gather here for news and discussion)

Yes, I know we’re three days away from the test of 1 MW E-Cat plant, but since most people following the story are focused on the October 28th event in Bologna, I thought it might be useful to have a place where people can gather to share news and views about the upcoming test.

I will update this post as interesting or significant information about the test comes to light, and would invite readers to share anything they feel is worthwhile in the comments section below.

And like any good pre-game show, if anyone wants to go out on a limb and make a prediction about what’s going to happen — go right ahead!

Oct. 25th. 10:38 GMT
One question mark about this event still out there is whether Andrea Rossi will share his theory about what is happening inside his reactor. During the past year he has said that he thinks he understands the physics of what is happening, and that he would share that at the launch of the 1MW plant. Now it’s not clear if that will happen.

Rossi was asked today on his site if he was still planning to share his theory, and he answered, “Yes.” (not saying when he would do that). In another comment, when asked what gave him the idea that hydrogen and nickel could produce a nuclear reaction, Rossi replied “As soon as possible I will give this info when it will be possible to disclose the theoretical bases, that for now I have to maintain confidential.”

So it sounds like he would like to share his theory, and he plans to do so, but he may be under some constraints as to when that will happen.

Oct. 26th. 01:38 GMT
Andrea Rossi has just posted some numbers for the amount of fuel required to run a 1 MW plant for 180 days:

“Grams/Power for a 180 days charge
Hydrogen: 18000 g
Nickel: 10000 g”

According to my calculations this would compute to:

100 g of hydrogen, and about 56 g of nickel per day to run a 1 MW plant; OR
4.17 g of hydrogen, and 2.3 g of nickel per hour.

Fuel use would be 0.00417 g of hydrogen, and 0.0023 g of nickel per kWh.

I’m not sure what the costs of hydrogen or nickel are, but these are miniscule amounts of fuel, so surely we are talking about tiny fractions of a penny per kWh.

Oct. 26th. 10:53 GMT

In response to a poster wishing Rossi well for the upcoming test, Rossi writes, “Thanks to you all. I am under tremendous pressure right now.”

Oct. 27th. 10:43 GMT

Anyone want to make a guess on who Rossi’s Mystery Customer is? You can go out on a limb here.

Oct. 27th. 16:43 GMT
Rossi posts:

“Thank you: now it’s 4 p.m. of the 27th, and we are finishing the cosmetics of the plant. I think tomorrow we will make, with the help of God, a good job. My work, basically, is finished. Within one hour the Consultants of the Customer will arrive to start the check of all the parts of the plant and prepare all their stuff for the test of tomorrow. Until some hour ago I felt a strong pressure, now, at the eve of the battle, as usual, I am recovering all my coldness and calm. We are ready.”

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  • Johannes Hagel

    Of course it would be very essential to learn more about the theoretical aspects of the LENR probably taking place inside the E-Cat. However a thousand times more important than that to me seems the final and unconcievable proof that a sufficient amount of energy is produced and that all possible chemical sources can be excluded. This MUST be simple to do and – as I also pointed out in the Forum – I cannot understand why Rossi did not do it months ago. I can only speculate for reasons.
    Anyway my believe is still that we may exclude conscious fraud because it would make no more sense at the present stage. Happy for all your opinions on the issue!

    Johannes Hagel, Neuss, Germany

    • Jonathan

      It is conscious fraud. Andrea Rossi didn’t received any payment yet. He needs to keep the circus going on, until he receives some money. He couldn’t fool anybody yet. He is trying to get a large payment, of a large sum of money, from some uncautious “Costumer”. So far, he wasn’t sucesfull. He couldn’t fool the guys from Deflakion. The fraud is only complete when he receives the money.

      • nima

        rossi had very successful business in usa
        but he sell his business to invest in his
        reserch and last month he sell his home
        to complete 1mw plant if you recently find out about
        rossi just be silent and watch.
        this is Mr rossi company in usa that was selled.
        http://leonardocorp1996.com/

        • Wes

          Leonardo Corp. To my knowledge they have yet to sell one genset. The building is a hut in an industrial strip mall. The phone number is shared with a realestate office in the mall. In other words, it is a front.

          • Kim

            The data to affirm this
            process has been produce multiple times by my educated
            men related and not related to Andrea Rossi

            The Data results are not
            hiding, its freely available

            For Gods Sake Please look at the data.

            Large Energy Signatures

            Respect
            Kim

      • daniel maris

        It’s a funny fraud then…where he seems able to convince a number of distinguished professors at ancient seats of learning that his machine is genuine. A funny fraud where he plays it out in front of the cameras and invited science journalists. A funny fraud where he builds such a large machine for his next test.

        I agree there are troublesome aspects of Rossi’s claims but equally I am convinced that a real scammer would have done a much better job.

        There is a third possibility – that he is deluded.

        • Wes

          For clever man, Rossi has studiously avoided simple ways to dispell concerns that his claim is legitimate. Hopefully he is just authority-challenged and not reality-challenged, or worse.

          Who would benefit indeed from such a complex, public scam? It would set back investment in cold fusion for decades, and perhaps that is the point. Who would want THAT? A few come to mind.

          • Kim

            Its not a scam.
            Why is it so hard for everybody to understand that this science of Nickel and Hydrogen is not new.

            He was persistent and found
            a catalyst.

            Its nuclear at a different
            capture frequency.

            Its only intuitive.

            Respect
            Kim

          • Rob Miller

            Why would Mr. Rossi feel compelled to provide proof to the general public, read you and I, at this point? Why would he give a rat’s ass whether or not Jonathan believes his machine is real? Jonathan isn’t buying the thing, nor Wes. Better to wait and see than run your mouth at this point in time. We are all skeptics at this point, but give the man the benefit of the doubt, unless you can prove fraud and have good reason to make such a statement. Casting aspersions on his character until all of the cards are on the table is not wise nor worthy of traditions of scientific inquiry.

          • Wes

            Why go to extraordinary lengths to make bold public claims without independent proof? For what constructive purpose can this be? If you make a bold public claim of great benefit to all, then walk away, you will surely be criticized, for no one forced you to make the claim. We grow tired of manipulation.

      • I love your confident swagger when you declare with certainty, “it’s a conscious fraud.”

        My understanding is that the customer will have their own experts provide their own test methods to confirm that the plant is for real before they ever release money. Pretty good fraudster. He should go into competition against Chris Angel.

        • chuck bealke

          Bruce
          how you can be sure that the customer is for real and not a staged demo with some Rossi’s friends ?

          • nima

            maybe this reduce your scepticism

            Interview with Energy Catalyzer’s Partner Ampenergo in the United States

            Robert H Gentile was also Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil Energy at the Department of Energy during the early 1990’s (02/26/90 – 06/29/91).

            Craig Cassarino, vice president of Ampenergo, was interviewed by Nyteknik.

            * Ampenergo is in current conversations with some very large companies here in the US and South America, some investment companies, because it’s not just a technology we’re creating in the industry here. There are a lot of pieces that really need to come together to build this matrix, lots of pieces of the puzzle that need to have some strategic thinking done, as how we transition into a new energy source. That’s what makes this very exciting. So you now there’s never enough money to make everything happen.

            * We’re hoping to get something here [in the USA] hopefully by late fall or beginning of next year (2012) as our first product to demonstrate. We’re not going down the same path as the Greeks (Defkalion Green Technologies) to develop home heating; we’re not really looking at that as a low hanging fruit.

            * I think this one megawatt (like the one planned in Greece – editor’s note) for heating and for power generation is probably the first [product in the USA], whether it’s off grid or mobile.

            * They first saw the E-cat two and a half years ago (late 2008 or early 2009). Rossi invited Bob [Gentile] and one of our scientists that works for us at the National Labs to go to Bologna where he had his factory. Of course as you can imagine, when we started talking about this, there was lots of skepticism.

          • chuck bealke

            By this time Ampenergo is an old story. It’s not the customer but a business interface intended to wrap real customers.
            It’s composed mainly by Rossi’s mates.
            This doesn’t reduce my skepticism, on the contrary this increase it.

          • Wes

            Or maybe it will not. Check out the link below. Guess who was the registered Secretary for Rossi’s Leonardo Corp? Craig Cassarino, the new president of Ampenergo, his e-cat partner. My what a coincidence! Rossi could pick Chris Angel’s pocket.
            http://www.manta.com/c/mm3nm4q/leonardo-technologies-inc

    • Horatio

      Grüß Dich Johannes,

      >important than that to me seems the final…
      Yes, to proof it, is as easy as eating “Himbeerkuchen” (cake). But he want to earn money.

      >I can only speculate for reasons.
      Please let us know your favourite guessings.

      >…exclude conscious fraud because…
      Yes, that all is a little bit quirky. But at least it is a good template for a novel (should a start being a writer, hehe).

      a emotional good day
      Horatio

      • Johannes Hagel

        Grüß Dich Horatio,

        ‘Yes, to proof it, is as easy as eating “Himbeerkuchen” (cake). But he want to earn money.’

        Hm everybody wants to earn money, evidently. But let us make some realistic considerations: If I were Rossi, I would first of all remember my age (must be around 60?). So roughly 20 years still to be on earth. Do you really think that with this period left his primary interest is just to earn lots of money? I would not have taken all the risks and performed all these risky investments if the result was that questionable. So there must be a different reason for incomplete experimentation, I suppose. Like it is said in Bible: “You cannot take a single cent into heaven….” Sure Rossi knows that!

  • Francesco CH

    Very useful website:

    http://www.rossilivecat.com/

  • Juan Pablo Valencia

    I believe in Rossi and want to see him succeed. It’s a really important thing he has and can’t give the information until he is ready, there are a lot of people waiting to know the secret and maybe not for the right reasons. Just patience and faith!

    For Spanish information of Cold Fusion this is a good link:

    http://fusion-fria.com/

    • Horatio

      Hola Juan,

      do you believe, that his secret can´t be revealed?

      If it is a mixture of elements (Ni and …), than it will be quickly discovered (so that means noone is interested at the moment to rediscover it)! Even a smaller company can do that (and huge companies will do that within weeks).

      With all the information I have, I guess that the “secret” is not patentable.

      warm regards and a emotional good day
      hasta luego
      Horatio

  • Sverre Hanch Haslund
  • Kim

    It should be intuitive to all people that if the
    energy from the atom can be had at the gross level as with nuclear power,than why not at the micro level ect…

    Edmund Storms video was nice. He’s right the us will
    impose a quackmire of regulatory issues.. and china will take off with it. Coal will be first.

  • C Johnson

    As suggested above, I will make a prediction:

    The upcoming test will do nothing to clarify whether Rossi’s device is a viable energy source. Like all previous tests, it will do just enough to keep the soap opera going.

    If I am wrong, I will admit it here publicly.

    • Kim

      How many times have we to test it.

      Shall we have a private showing and testing
      for every skeptic on this planet.

      Its time to use it.

      The skeptics are squabbling about details
      My god man this thing is producing large
      signatures of excess energy.

      Respect
      Kim

    • daniel maris

      It’s a fair comment. Rossi needs to raise his game if he is to convince.

      • Kim

        You are right
        That is part of the problem

        • Kim

          I may be wrong, but I suspect that
          Defkalion got a hold of the core
          reactor and ran some spectroscopy
          and now knows the secret catalyst
          and the whole shabang! ect….

          Respect
          Kim

          • Kim

            This is not rocket science
            No moving parts

            3 items arranged properly
            (and please be careful)

            A proper coolant.

            A Good machinist, A plumber
            Some Chemistry

            Viola

            Respect
            Kim

          • chuck bealke

            IMHO Defkalion ran just a lot of talk and a quite homemade website (very likely created by the young sonny of one of the board member in his spare time)

      • Kim

        Pol Pot: To keep from freezing in the winter?

        I read the Conversation.

        James:
        Please answer why now? Why is this coming forward to us now.

        Its not as though Nickel and Hydrogen
        LENR as not been studied and confirmed long
        ago.

        Rossi Just foun the Catalyst to Bump it
        up Expotentially.

        What has Changed ?

        Why are the powers that be going to let us
        have it now.

        Its the Crux of this entire delema

        and you know it

        Respect
        Kim in Tucson

  • Kim

    Once the customer is satisfied, then the unit will
    be shipped to USA.

    With contracts for more units… to be made in the
    U.S.

    Big Oil and Nuclear will step up and say:
    You need Regulations!

    You can’t bring that into the USA.

  • Kim

    One of the big problems is 6000 miles and
    a language barrier.

  • Francesco CH

    “Customer”, bookmakers:

    95% Google

    2.5% Apple

    2.5% Microsoft

    (ps
    0.0% GM
    0.0% GE)

    • Kim

      Are you saying this is a consortium ?

      Respect
      Kim in Tucson

      • Kim

        That is a scary thought having
        Google supplying the world
        with free energy. (maybe not)

        Kim

        • daniel maris

          It’s not going to be free. Cheap is the best you can hope for.

          Just as a lump of accurately assembled steel and lead it’s going to cost a fair amount. That’s before it gets shipped to and installed in your house. It will need to be connected to the electrics. Then you need to buy the fuel and you need to have regular maintenance of the unit.

          Put it altogether and it’s going to cost something!

          • Kim

            All this is true.

            The Science is young

            You have not seen anything yet

            Question: Why Now?

            These are not new ideas.

            Are they teasing us?

      • Francesco CH

        Kim on October 25, 2011 at 10:07 pm
        Are you saying this is a consortium ?

        ANSWER: no.

        • Francesco CH

          Probably (95% chances) is Google, the remaining probabilities can be equally divided between Apple and Microsoft.

    • chuck bealke

      33% Rossi
      33% EFA srl
      33% Ampenergo

      • Francesco CH

        I confirm it is NOT General Electric and it is NOT General Motors

    • Fred L

      I was a bit surprise to see that the 1MW plant was build inside a ship container… Of course if it was planned to be shipped to the US it could be understandable. But when speculations about the mysterious customer arised, I remembered a television documentary on Google where they visited a Google datacenter. And believe it or not but a Google datacenter is just a pile of ship containers, they are each autonomous and they can be exchanged or replaced by a crane within minutes in case of a breakdown. All servers are in containers. I don’t know if Google is the mysterious customer but a Rossi’s 1MW plant could easily been integrated in a Google datacenter to produce electricity. I thought it was worth mentionning it.

  • Gray Champion

    “The Wrights have flown or they have not flown. They possess a machine or they do not possess one. They are in fact either fliers or liars. It is difficult to fly. It’s easy to say, ‘We have flown.”
    – Ernest Archdeacon, February 10th 1906

    • D2

      Gray,

      Thumbs up on that quote!

  • Richard

    I think Wes is missing the point.
    If it WAS a fraud, then Rossi would be trying to convince the general public /blogosphere it was real, and asking for small donations.
    If its REAL then Rossi doesnt give a damn what the general public think, he cares what people with the money to bye 1MW plants think.
    Im not saying I know for certain either way, but someone with a real invention wouldnt give a damn what the general public think.
    Only time will tell, theres at least a small chance that this thing actually works.

    • Horatio

      Hello Richard,

      Yes, there is a chance that this machine works.
      Perhaps not within that wonderful specifications.

      And even, when the machine does not work reproducible, it can push more an deeper research.

      Cause I am convinced, that there is an effect. Pons and Fleischman found “something”. Teams from reowned universities found it too, but these effects were not reproducible.
      Cause of fear, fear to loose their reputation, fear to get no money for their studies, fear to get a job and a title, these scientists denied their own work (not reproducible).
      Personal fear that produced 22 years of stillstand (some scientists did research).
      Anyway of the great potential of e-cat, we will not pushed to paradise. Cause first and overall must cristalize a society, where justice is not only a chapter in law books. Where the wealth is distributed fairer.
      Where the role of the individual is adjusted to it´s right place (and not denied like in communism).
      And that cristalization must come from within the society (without bloody revolution).
      This seems farer away than technical solutions…

      a emotional good day
      Horatio

  • Marco

    I have come across these personality types more and more these days. They want everything and everyone to fail or to turn up a fraud because deep down inside they are so discontent with their own efforts and or accomplishments. Maybe he is a fraud? Maybe not? What is the difference you will forget in 5 minutes when it is all said and done, and then you will be on to tearing someone else’s work down. I for one hope that when Rossi’s Design is fully validated and it is confirmed that there is no smoke and mirrors and the reactor is vigorously tested for safe operation around humans in a longitudinal study, that it won’t be long before they can have one in every home or vehicle.

  • Go

    I’d like to believe in the e-cat, I really would. But yes, I am highly skeptical. The arrogance of Rossi’s defenders and Rossi himself is quite absurd. Rossi stated that after Friday, he’s done with the public tests, you know, because there’s been so many of them and everyone is so convinced and there’s only a small minority of detractors. It’s really really simple to do a test of the e-cat that is very convincing. Set up an e-cat in a public space and say “I’m loading enough nickel powder in here to power this thing (whatever) for a year easily” and then after a week or so, the entire world will be at his doorstep. It’s really really simple to just fire one up and plug some things in and demonstrate for a good period of time that it’s consistently producing energy. The fact that nothing like this has been done for the past year is almost in itself proof that the whole thing is fraudulent because if this were real Rossi would be in a mad dash to demonstrate the e-cat as prominently as possible, rather than hiding away from the world and trying to find a gullible customer or two.

    • Miles Dyson

      Arrogance does not suggest a scam in and of itself. I don’t think he does have a fully engineered device that can get the entire world at his doorstep. The theory isn’t well enough developed. There isn’t a patent. If I were him, I might decide that now was the time to show the world what he’s been working on, completed or not, and to show them in a way that slowly whets their appetite without getting them all upset at one time. One interesting thing is that, depending on how clearly he shows that he has really found something new, he may get enough support from the public in general that he won’t need a patent to win lawsuits against people that try to ‘steal’ his invention. He’ll at least get his name in history even if the money doesn’t flow quite right. But we’ll have to see how much of whatever end product actually revolutionizes energy delivery will be traced to Rossi’s work and how much to many other people who have worked and will work on this kind of energy.

    • Horatio

      Hi,

      the aim of Mr. Rossi is to establish an enterprise, with which he makes profit.
      It is not his goal, to convince everyone 100%.

      I am split inside. If it is true or not.

      greetings
      Horatio

  • D R Lunsford

    What are physicists going to say when it is revealed that they hounded P and F into oblivion, ignored constant evidence for a breathtakingly interesting phenomenon for nearly 20 years, while at the same time endorsing all manner of complete BS, from wormholes to many-worlds to ubiquitous but never seen black holes to string theory to brane theory and on and on and on? You do realize that some time ago they tried to CHANGE THE RULES OF SCIENCE, to bring anthropic ideas into the foreground, in order that they could be right under the new rules, when the old ones had made them look foolish? This is not only a sea change for society, it is the end of the “ancien regime” in physics and I expect wholesale housecleaning in departments across the world.

    During the time in which LENR has been ignored and those who do it ostracized, the standard hot big bang cosmology has been patched at least 4 different times in the face of evidence that should have consigned it to the dustbin of history.

    Something deeply pathological happened in science, probably starting in the 1960s and correlated to post-Sputnik hysteria, that created many scientists from bad material (people who would not have gone into science in a “normal” world).

    This is all going to change. It’s about time!

    -drl

  • For me the key was watching closely the interviews that Mr. Rossi did with Mr. Krivit. My background is in social work, not physics. After closely watching the interviews, I was convinced that Mr. Rossi believes in what he is doing. Whether the invention is real or not, I’m not qualified to say, but I am reasonably qualified to say that I believe that he believes it is real.

    Then it occurred to me that at this moment, I can not say categorically that this invention is not real…which makes this time period magical in its own way.

    • Alexvs

      Not being expert in social sciences I got just opposite opinion from the interview Mr. Rossi / Mr Krivit. I have experienced same feeling when someone tried to convince me that the Perendev Magnetic Motor was not a fake. And apparently it was running.
      NVMERVS STVLTVM INFINITUS EST.

      • D R Lunsford

        Stultorum, not stultum

        -drl

        • Hanonymouse

          Event Latin has its grammar-nazis

    • Alexvs

      Sorry, nothing personal.

      • Paul Schmidt

        Interesting conversation. I’ve been putting people in jail for fraud for nearly 30 years and have sat down with more BS artists than I care to count. My reading of Rossi and Krivit was that Rossi was telling the truth. People tend to confuse frustrated or annoyed with dishonesty, and when you add another language and culture in to the mix, people often read a situation incorrectly.
        If I was interviwing Mr Rossi, I would tend to beleive him.

        • Alexvs

          Might be as you say. I concede that Mr. Rossi is telling HIS truth.

          • Johannes Hagel

            This is what I meant when I said that I tend to exclude conscious fraud. In my opinion too Rossi really believes in what he is saying. Still I cannot understand his attitude of sloppy experimentation and I do believe that there must exist some purpose behind it. Its too obvious!

          • John

            I think an important point to make is that if this WERE a conscious fraud, Rossi would obviously be aware of any trickery used to achieve the excess heat. There’s no way it just “accidentally” happened.

            Meaning, if Rossi truly believes in his invention (and of course there is no way of conclusively proving this), chances are it’s real – that is, if he’s not crazy.

          • D R Lunsford

            There are papers from 13 years ago that demonstrate identical effects with the same materials. These papers were written by people unconnected to Rossi. If it’s a fraud, then it applied backward in time.

            “Anomalous Heat Effects Correlated with Electrochemical Hydriding of Nickel”

            Mengoli, Bernardini, Manducchi, and Zannoni

            Nuovo Cimento 20D, p. 331-352 (1998)

      • D R Lunsford

        You said, “The number of idiots is infinite” in (wrong) Latin and then you said “Nothing personal.” Just go away.

        -drl

        • Doc Brown

          I need one of these new cold fusion reactors for my flux capacitor. I’ll get that thing working yet!

          • The nightly you are likley running is 4.0b8pre since the tree on Beta 7 build was closed earlier this week. Beta 7 should be out sometime in November. possibly as early as this coming week. RC1 is likley what won’t be until December.

  • 10 kg of Nickel, means about 66 gr by single unit ( 52 triple unit I think ). Fine
    And remember that surely pure powder nickel must be expensive, but used nickel can be used to make inox steel.
    My fear: how will be done the refueling in the 1 MW unit ? Shipping the complete unit or sending an engineer from Italy ?

  • Stephen T.

    It’s good to have company at times like this. Think positive thoughts. Aim them toward Bologna.

  • nima

    Oct. 26, 2011 update by Sterling D. Allan

    Yesterday, the day I arrived here in Bologna, I saw a headline from the Wall Street Journal: Italian Government Risks Collapse. Then, a little later, I saw a story at BeforeItsNews about a movement percolating around the Occupy Wallstreet and related groups: Will You Help “Shut It Down” On Oct. 28th?, “a call to disengage from the military, industrial and congressional complex (as it was originally called by Eisenhower) for a full day”. They urge people to “call in sick to work, turn off all the media and appliances you can, get out of the banks, close credit cards, initiate new lifestyle changes, whatever you can do or stop doing. And don’t buy a corporate thing.”

    So while the world sees Italy on verge of collapse, and the activists are calling for a protest shut down of the corporate world for October 28, quite another thing will be taking place in Italy on October 28, 2011 — the emergence of a technology that will help us turn around the economy and give power to the people, making affordable distributed energy possible.

    We invite you to spread this buzz around, to let people know that in the midst of all the gloom created by greed, that a better world is in process of emerging.

    I find this confluence more than a coincidence. It seems to be part of the yin/yang dance of a higher power that is working with us to see the emergency of our destiny to be free and independent of the corrupt powers that be that are in process of collapsing the world, even as a new, more enlightened world is arising.

    • Francesco CH

      It is an old story: the world is incapable to undestand the subtleties of the Italian society.

      About the Italian Government: it is very simple.

      Italy is a parliamentary system, so the executive brach needs to obtain support from parliament.

      Last vote of confidence (just seven days ago) in the Italian parliament:

      316 to the Italian government, 301 against.

      Hence, what are we talking about? Usual media deceit.

    • I agree with Francesco CH. Italian politics is very difficult to understand for the anglosphere, so never trust what a not Italian newspaper write about (and take with much salt what the Italians wrote).

    • Fred L

      Do you know that the end the Mayan calendar is actually the 28th october 2011 ? Not at all the 21/12/2012 which is not base on scientific facts. So it appears that the mayans have actually accurately predicted the beginning of a new era. This is really incredible.

      • Anne Ominous

        Did you know the end of the Mayan calendar is as significant as reaching the end of the 2011 Calendar on 31-Dec? OMG! Start the new 2012 Calendar. Did you know the maths done to compute the end of the Mayan calendar were in error? and the end of the Great cycle is about 150 years from now?

  • s

    I’ve always believed that cold fusion works and I definitely believe that Rossi has developed some sort of working cold fusion reactor. The doubt I’m starting to have is whether the reaction is too unstable, at this time, for Rossi and his team to control at overunity power gain (>6 to 1 for electricity to heat) for a long period of time. This doubt is mainly due to two statements that Defkalion seems to have made recently.

    1. Defkalion seems to have implied that Rossi is using an older, version 3 design, that Defkalion and Rossi developed jointly while they were still working together, in the 1MW plant. Defkalion seems to imply they are now on version 7. That Defkalion seems to imply that Rossi is using an older design in the plant appears to indicate that Defkalion felt 4 more revisions of work needed to be done to make the ecat control the reaction in the most efficient and stable manner.

    2. Defkalion seems to imply that Prof. Stremmonos (spelling?) attempted to recruit Defkalion scientists/engineers to work for Rossi. If everything were going smoothly and the reaction was working in a stable manner at > 6 to 1 gain, why would there be any need to recruit Defkalion employees at such a late stage?

    I’m not judging or implying about the veracity of any statement Defkalion or Rossi made. But, Rossi seems to have stated the split with Defkalion was due to financial concerns and not technical concerns. So, I just feel that Defkalion might be ahead of Rossi in terms of developing a system to house the reactor cores and make the reaction run in as efficient and stable a manner as possible. At this point, Rossi may be past any issues that caused him to possibly need to use an older design that may have been jointly developed with Defkalion or to possibly try to recruit Defkalion employees. If Rossi has made everything work properly without any input from Defkalion, then in two days the 1MW plant will work properly. I really hope the 1MW plant meets specifications and makes this post moot. However, I wouldn’t be 100% surprised if in two days some technical issues/delays arise with the 1MW plant.

  • Rick Gresham

    Getting the E-Cat hot enough to efficiently make electricity is going to take a while. Assuming it does eventually make cheap electricity, then investors will buy it.

    There’s two kinds of investors – the ones that invest in something because it’s good for society, the planet, etc – social investors and those who invest for profit. Social investors seek to maximize returns to society, for-profit investors seek to maximize returns to their bank account.

    Social investors might invest in E-Cat tech, but I suspect the dollars won’t be large and the investments won’t be targeted at the US. They’ll be looking at places where children die everyday from lack of clean water.

    If the E-Cat can make electricity cheaper than coal or gas, for-profit investors will buy it but don’t expect them to be soft-hearted (headed) enough to sell their electricity for any less than anybody is willing to sell their electricity just because it’s cheaper, why would they sell for less if they can sell all they can make at a higher price?

    When/if so much inexpensive power is being made by the E-Cat that investors are pushed into selling their electricity for less, we will see lower energy costs. But that day is far off, if it ever comes.

    Utilities will not buy it simply because it’s cleaner. They will only buy it if their cost of power is reduced. They’ll tout how green they are, but not if it costs their investors anything.

    As for the US allowing it in or not – if it does make cheap power and if other countries build/rebuild their energy infrastructure based on the E-Cat, the US and every other country that wants to compete in international trade will adopt it wholesale. Capital will always seek to maximize profits; if a country offers lower production costs, that’s where captial will go. The US is no different. We’ll impose tarriffs that double the cost of sugar in the US to protect domestic cane growers but if land, labor and energy costs more here, production will move offshore. Hence, China has become the world’s manufacturing floor.

    • Rob

      Remember, though, that the technology seems to be scaleable and from what we’ve read Rossi also intends to sell directly to consumers in about a year. Thus, the power will eventually make its way off the grid and out of control of large companies charging a premium for it.

    • Justin

      So it doesn’t produce steam at pressures great enough to produce substantial electricity. Good point. However, if it works as advertised, it will spark a huge debate into he legitimacy of cold fusion the likes of which has never been seen before. We will now have a working product available on the market for deniers to try to ignore. Kinda hard to ignore what is literally right in front of you doing the impossible.

    • Dave C.

      An immediate, low-hanging-fruit application will be to install multi- MW units at existing coal and natural gas steam turbine utilities to pre-heat the steam, cutting existing electricity rates by 50% or so with almost no change to the existing infrastructure.

  • Skeptic

    I would really like this to be true, but it has all the tellings of a fraud.
    Shady partners (the greek company, the US company owned by previous associates of Mr. Rossi), a technology that already exists and is already patented but purportedly improved by the inventor creating the “industrial secret”/patent obstacle, a background of other “revolutionary” technology that ended with the creation of a toxic dump instead of a trash to fuel refinery, inaccurate and conflicting information between Mr. Rossi and said partners…

    I really hope I’m wrong and this technology changes the World for the better.

    • Luca Salvarani

      You should consider that the patent protection is only partial: it’ an italian, non EU or American or International patent! so Rossi’s arguments do make perfect sense!

      • scott

        The best scam artists arguments always seem to make sense on the surface. I really hope this is real, but Rossi’s history and lack of scientific backing behind it make it far more likely to be a scam to me.

  • I have run the number of the costs to fuel the 1 MW e-cat.
    For 6 months 1MW need:
    18 kg di hydrogen and 10 kg di nichel

    Nickel, LME quote today, is 9$/lb, around 20$/kg
    It is unknown how much cost to process it in something useful for the LENR with hydrogen but Rossi say to too much.
    Hydrogen cost around 5$/kg (retail)

    This is around 290$ worth of stuff for six months. We could take a 1.000$ to count for the cost of processing the nickel.
    1 MW will produce 4.320.000 KWh in six months
    Supposing the cost to produce the same heat is around 0.05 $/KWh with conventional ways this is 216.000 $ worth of heat produced in six months using only 1.000 $. A tidy 215.000$ profit.

    Rossi wrote the 1 MW e-cat cost around 500.000 $. This imply the generator cost is repaid in around 15 months of continuous operation.

    If it work, and I think it will work, this will sell like hot cakes and ice cream.

    • admin

      Thanks for doing the numbers, Mirco.

      So if 4,320,000 kWh = $1000

      1000/4320000 = $0.00023 per kWh

      or 0.023 cents per kWh

      Am I right?

      • Right. Or Too cheap to meter.

        • RUNNING COST FOR THE 1MW E-cat:
          Do not forget that the I MW E-cat Power Plant will not run in self-sustained mode due to safety issues.

          There will be a general minimum 1 to 6 gain in energy from the plant. I.e. the 1 MW E-Cat Power Plant will require a maximum of 167 kWh to run during the 6 months.

          So in addition to the fuel cost of 10 kg modified Nickel micro powder and 18 kg hydrogen gas one need to add the cost of purchasing 167 kWh for each hour the plant is running during the 6 months. This el-power running cost is much larger than the cost of the Nickel / Hydrogen fuel used.

          Se recent Andrea Rossi answer to my questions re. running cost of the 1 MW E-Cat Power Plant:

          Jorn Erik Ommang
          October 26th, 2011 at 3:50 PM
          Dear Andrea Rossi,

          Congratulation from Norway, Spain & UK!

          1.0 Is it correct that Your 1 MW E-Cat Container will require a maximum of 167 kW in el-power to run and generate the 1 MW of heath (a minimum 1 to 6 energy gain) (1 to 6 energy gain = 167 kW el-power in and 1 MW heat out)?

          2.0 Will the cost of this el-power (maximum 167 kWh for 6 months) come in addition to the cost for fuel (10 kg nickel & 18 kg hydrogen pr. 6 months)?

          I have been working as consultant in New Energy (since 1994) for management of Oil and Energy Companies in Norway (including Europe’s largest renewable energy company) as well as work the Government. The Consultant work has included training top management in what will come in the clean new energy field and have followed Your great work for a long time. Have also long time experience as Project Manager in the Norwegian Oil & Gas Industry and as technical auditor for Shell & Statoil.

          3.0 I am interested in linking Norwegian, Spanish and UK Oil, Gas and Energy Companies to Your products to prepare for when Your revolutionary products come on the marked. Please advice how best to contact You for my contacts within these areas for purchasing MW-units and licenses.

          4.0 Have You chosen the date of 28.09.2011 for Your demo for a special reason (i.e. are You aware that this date is one of the major dates for positive changes in alternative thinking)?

          All the best with Fridays major demonstration, verification & testing

          Sincerely,

          Jorn-Erik Ommang, Engineer
          New Energy Specialist
          Enerley.com
          Spain / Norway / UK

          Andrea Rossi
          October 27th, 2011 at 3:47 AM
          Dear Jorn Erik Ommang:
          1- yes
          2- yes
          3- OK
          4- Just a case
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Scott H

            Once you have the E-Cat up and running why couldn’t you divert 167 kWh from the E-Cat.

  • Horatio

    Hi, Hello,

    “How are you”, said Mr. Focus.
    “Fine. hmm, I need some time to relax. These last days were very exhausting”, replied Mr. buona sorte.
    “Ohhh, hello, here cames the cake”, shouted Mr. Lebby.
    “Mama mia, all the time you are shouting around”, said Mr buona sorte.

    They swichted the TV on and ate appreciatively raspberry pie.
    The newsreader reported from the huge disturbances on the nickel market. Price was raising 23 times since last week. The shares of Nickel mining companies rocketed into the sky.

    ….

    WE WILL SEE
    horatio

    • jesse

      I already have my nickel futures. I know it won’t increase demand that much but the market is about perception not reality.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Well, let’s see: after the 28th, Rossi announces that the test was a success but since the test was the customer’s, we’ll have to ask him for the data, and unfortunately the terms of the contract keep Rossi from telling us who the customer is….

    Hope I’m wrong.

    • Rob

      Sounds reasonable to me. That’s what I’d do with a serious paying customer. What would YOU do?

      • adam

        Try to get more paying customers by announcing the results.

        I wish him luck, but this whole thing is extremely sketchy.

        • David

          That really depends on who your customer is. For example, one group who has never stopped researching this sort of technology is the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. If his client is the American Military then they tend towards secrecy. Whomever it is they are clearly trying to reap the maximum benefits from this project in the event it proves true. The project was originally supposed to be shipped to the USA but Rossi rejected the deal because of his lawyer’s advice. In all likelihood his customer is trying to get some measure of ownership.

          This is a no-win situation in regards to skepticism. If he were trying to get other customers by announcing his own results he would be accused of trying to get more suckers before the results could be vetted.

  • Pingback: October 28th E-Cat Test Pre-Game Thread (Gather here for news and discussion) | E-Cat World | Memetic Warfare()

  • Brian Myhre

    Until we open the box and see what’s in it, we won’t know if this works or doesn’t work. This theory is known as Schodinger’s E-cat.

    • MJS

      I don’t know how my T.V works inside but I know it works. Likewise, when people start making big bucks selling power with these devices then everyone will know they work but almost no one will know how it works.

      • david

        If it works the vast majority of people won’t care how it does, only that it does

      • AL

        Maybe the average person doesn’t know how a T.V. works, but the people that designed and created them learned how. We’ll see how well the theories Rossi has about his design pan out.

      • The difference is, that with a T.V. everyone can learn how it works.
        Most choose not to, for they earn their living in some other manner, and don’t want to study electronic engineering to satisfy their curiosity.. but if anybody wanted to, there are a number of public resources to find out.

      • adam

        First you sacrifice 1000 italian orphans to the machine god. Then you put any old crap in and turn it on.

      • PeteH

        I know a TV works, and thus far this sounds more and more like a scam and less and less like a TV every time I read about it.

    • David

      People used fire for thousands of years before anyone understood oxidation reactions. Are we really so proud that we would turn our backs on a phenomena of nature that could prove very beneficial simply because we don’t understand how it works yet? Build the generator. If it works the science will just have to catch up.

    • Scott E

      Then there are the instances where the underlying theory was known, but some related results of the first test were unknown. I’m recalling that, according to Richard Feynman, before the first full-scale atomic fission test at Alamogordo Air Base, NM, some scientists were taking wagers as to whether or not the earth’s atmosphere would be set ablaze. Now, the only questions are, what odds were being given and how were they derived?

  • Stephen T.

    I will think positive thoughts and beam them toward Bologna.
    I will think positive thoughts and beam them toward Bologna.
    I will think positive thoughts and beam them toward Bologna.

    I pray for a safe and productive test session.

    Peace & Love,
    Stephen Taylor

    • Rodrigo Costa

      I read that and i am a little bit skeptical but at the same time, very hopefull!

      I will send my good energy to you Rossi, humanity needs energy to solve his problems…

      Good Luck!

  • Pingback: 1 MW Cold Fusion Plant Supposedly To Come Online | Environmental, Health and Safety News()

  • arian

    @22passi

    We just self-sustaining with a buffet! 🙂 )

  • Lets give the man a chance. After all people throughout history have doubted many a scientist only to be surprised or have their grandchildren be surprised much later. Think of Galileo

    • motman

      Yeah, but the standard canon of the church at the time was of a heliocentric solar system. Galileo was put on trial for being a jerk and not sharing his telescope technology. This guy has been really weird in the past, and very secretive. Not saying he is a jerk, but it seems weird.

      • GreyGeek

        “he standard canon of the church at the time was of a heliocentric solar system. Galileo was put on trial for being a jerk and not sharing his telescope technology.”

        Heliocentric? Your history teacher grossly misled you. He was specifically requested to recant his view that the Earth circled the Sun or die a heritic. And, Galileo didn’t invent the telescope but did share the improvements he made.

        Back to the topic:
        I watched the previous test and it was a failure as far as being a self-sustaining process from which one could extract useful amounts of energy.

        The day is now over at the test site and the “customer” who is paying for the 1 MW plant KNOWS if it is a success or not. I suspect that this “test” is not a success and the police will be called shortly, if they are not already there.

  • arian

    new wired article about today test.

    Cold Fusion: Future of physics or phoney?

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/28/cold-fusion

    • Doc Brown

      I need one of these new cold fusion reactors for my flux capacitor. I’ll get that thing working yet!

      • Frank

        They are going to be making Delorians again.

  • Herman

    May the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force be with you.

  • arian

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    October 28th, 2011 at 10:37 AM

    FIRST INFORMATION REGARDING THE 1 MW PLANT TEST:
    WE SARTED REGULARLY THE TEST THIS MORNING . EVERYTHING IS GOING WELL SO FAR. THE 1 MW E-CAT IS WORKING IN SELF SUSTAINING.
    TONIGHT I WILL PUBLISH THE NON SECRET REPORT THAT THE CUSTOMER WILL RELEASE.
    WARM REGARDS, I HAVE TO RETURN TO THE PLANT. SORRY, I CANNOT ANSWER TO THE MANY COMMENTS I AM RECEIVING. I WILL PUBLISH THEM PROBABLY I WILL NEVER FIND THE TIME TO ANSWER.
    WARMEST REGARDS TO ALL,
    ANDREA ROSSI

  • kent

    Any news yet was it a success or failure.

    • JustJim

      The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

      We’ll know it’s a success when the first unit is up and runnig in a production mode.

    • Rodrigo Costa

      any cover somewhere?

  • Alice M

    Well nickel and hydrogene do sound a bit far fetched, but hey So did Fungi against bacteria (Penicillin)

    We will see…says the blind.

  • arian
  • Vernon Nemitz

    When the test is over, and the reactor is examined for reaction products, PLEASE be careful about letting any helium escape. I know Rossi thinks that the reaction in his device produces copper, but what if he is mistaken? What if the nickel metal lattice catalyzes deuterium-deuterium fusion (as other CF researchers claim happens in palladium)? It is very important to be sure, no matter what reaction actually occurs, that none of the reaction products escape before they can be measured. Thank you!

  • Clyde Brown
  • The cake is a lie. If there was a cake, there would be a party, and the host would be labeled as a Messiah.

  • Enzo

    Did it work? Does anyone have an update?

    • JL

      Hello? – it’s Nov 3 now, and we have NOTHING?

      Please, someone update this

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