What did the E-Cat Test Achieve?

The October 28th E-Cat test is over now. This was an event that people interested in Andrea Rossi’s cold fusion technology have been looking forward to for almost a year now, and for many observers it does not seem to have lived up to expectations.

In the build up to this event, Rossi had said a number of things would happen, some of which did not transpire. There was no live streaming of the test on Youtube; Rossi did not reveal his theory of what was happening inside the energy catalyzer; the name of the Customer was not made public — in fact this really did not turn out to be a public event at all.

If people were hoping that today would be the day when the world would be shown irrefutable proof of cold fusion in action they were disappointed. The event was essentially a private test of Rossi’s plant by agents of the unnamed American Customer where invited guests and selected journalists were able to get a brief look of the plant in action.

So what really did the test achieve? From Andrea Rossi’s point of view, a great deal. The testing done by the Customer’s agent, Domenico Fioravanti, was satisfactory enough for them to purchase the plant from Rossi, and take possession of it. This sale will provide Rossi with much-needed funds, and among other things allow him to contract a two-year research and development program with the University of Bologna, and begin negotiating with the University of Uppsala for a similar R&D program there. The fact that two major universities whose professors attended yesterday’s and other tests are willing to participate in research programs involving the E-Cat speaks volumes.

Also, yesterday’s test DID demonstrate (again) the validity of the E-Cat technology in what seems to me a compelling way. According to NyTeknik, the customer’s priority was to see the plant running in self-sustain mode (meaning the external heat to the reactor was switched off). Mats Lewan reported that “according to the customer’s controller, Domenico Fioravanti, the plant released 2,635 kWh during five and a half hours of self sustained mode, which is equivalent to an average power of 479 kilowatts.”

Another thing that the event demonstrated was the dedication of Andrea Rossi. He had made a commitment to launch this huge plant in October and he did it. Some people who had been convinced that he was some kind of fraudster had been predicting he would delay indefinitely so he could perpetuate his scam, but there was no such thing. The launch on schedule should certainly help his credibility when it comes to future business dealings.

We’re still waiting for more reporting from the test; the most well known media representative in the room was Peter Svennson of the Associated Press, and apparently it is going to take him a few days to prepare his report of the day’s proceedings. There was an hour long Q & A session which PESN has said they will be posting before too long.

And one more thing. From Rossi’s point of view there’s another major benefit that comes from completing his test — he gets to take a day off. His most recent blog posting says not to expect any comments from him today because he’s off to play tennis.

  • Frank

    So, can you tell me how much will Mr. Rossi get paid from the mysterious, secret customer?

    • arian

      2 million dollar for each unit.

      • rossini

        This means Rossi gets reportedly ~ 100 million $.
        Sure he plays tennis – he is on the run already! Now or never 🙂

        • Hampus

          No that’s 2 million for the whole thing. Didn’t he say something like 500€ per kwh?

          • rossini

            I don’t know it. I just replied to the amount arian mentioned. I’ve heard nothing about other 1 MW units, so it seemed to be the price for each unit in the container.

  • Johannes Hagel

    Surely this was no scientifically satisfactory test of the E-Cat concept but obviously a sufficient proof for the unknown customer to buy the unit. The question is: What can us give more certainty. A test according to scientific rules or a customer being ready to pay millions for a thing he is convinced to work? No doubt, as a physicist I would like to see science to be the final judge. However, money is a mighty factor and I cannot imagine a big company to waste money for nothing of validity. So maybe we can conclude a positive result from these considerations? What do you think?

    • rossini

      I think an unknown customer proofes nothing. It’s just one additional blackbox in this game. It’s Rossis argumentation, that a customer will give the proove, but that’s not true. A fake customer is an old trick. Noboby of us can track the money nor the customer.
      A neutral test environment with one small unit would be sufficient if known scientists would do the tests 🙂
      What we saw was the opposite!
      So I think Rossi gives his best to let it look like a fake, strange plan, though.

    • MnMark

      I agree – a “mystery customer” proves nothing. What did we really learn yesterday? All we can say for sure is that some observers spent a few minutes watching some machinery in a shipping container whirr and steam. That’s all we know: some machinery appeared to do something. Big deal!

      • Kim

        Pretty Dark thoughts

        Take a deep breath, it will be OK.

      • daniel maris

        But we know that Focardi was there – a distinguished professor at an ancient seat of learning who has worked closely with Rossi and who fully accepts the machine works.

        We know that if this is a scam it has been put together with such effort that this scammer seems alone in the world of scammers (scammers are invariably very lazy people who can’t be bothered to create elaborate artifice but rather rely purely on schpiel and claims).

        We know that nickel and hydrogen have been observed to create anomalous heat.

        We know there was someone there claiming to be an independent engineer there who signed off a report. We can investigate that person’s bona fides.

        • Robert

          Bernie Madoff was a scammer who put together a huge amount of effort to pull off his scam, and did it for years under the supposedly diligent and watchful eyes of the world’s best security regulators. It wasn’t until the sons of Bernie Madoff finally confronted their father about what was going on that the whole thing fell apart and billions of dollars were lost.

          I don’t know if Rossi is that well connected or could pull off a scam of that nature, but there is always the possibility of a “long con” happening. In this case there is at least the possibility that this “customer” is fictitious and just another part of the scam. If so, it will go down as one of the more infamous scams of the century. What Rossi’s end game might be if that was happening is anybody’s guess.

          The thing is, I don’t see Rossi as being that articulate to pull of such a scam. Perhaps that is his charm?

          Count me in as a skeptic, but I’m also skeptical of claims that he is a scam artist. If he is a scammer, he isn’t an ordinary one.

  • Francesco CH

    Article (in Italian) and nice photogallery from Radio Città del Capo:

    http://radio.rcdc.it/archives/28-ottobre-fusione-fredda-il-test-della-centrale-da-1-mw-89377/

  • Filipe Mota

    As I understand it is not a cold fusion, but a rapid reaction. If this does what it says it does, it will be a major breakthrough in energy production.

  • Francesco CH

    Same photos also on flickr:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/32165283@N03/

    Thanks to Radio Città del Capo

  • vpo

    Hope it is not a fraud but smell of it still there.
    Sell to unknown customer might be in principle another revolution of fraud process forming an inverted pyramid alike recent financial pyramids.
    Simply scale gone up in mass and money and there is still no concrete proof of principle.
    How sad if this is true. I was hoping.

  • Francesco CH

    Peter Svensson from the Associated Press interviews Sergio Focardi (photo):

    http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/thumbs/R_319825_1.jpg

  • arian
  • Dr Mike

    Merely 2.643MWH at half power? The first powered flight was for 12 seconds and covered 120 feet with little interest anywhere as it was obvious that powered flight was not economically viable…..

    I cannot imagine the impact on global warming, poverty and the world this will have. Now the concept has been shown to ‘work’ there will be hundreds of alternative being researched. Not the end of oil or coal, but the end of needless burning of it as fuel rather than synthesising useful chemical and (hopefully recyclable) plastics. It will certainly be good to see the demise of dirty Nuclear plants that polute for tens of thousands of years.

    • rantanplan

      I think in the article there is a mix up. I think it should be: “2,635 kW during five and a half hours of self sustained mode, which is equivalent to an average power of 479 kilowatt hours.”
      (kW and kilowatt hours)
      Non the less this is very much!

      • Marty Beck

        The power units seem to confuse many. KiloWatts is the instantaneous power. Amps times Volts at any given instant. The 2,635 KiloWatt Hours is the total energy that produced steam. Dividing that by the total time gives the average power over that duration. 479 KiloWatts is the average power output. It would have had some peaks and valleys I presume.

        Why do people ever shut these things off? Keep it running and have a smaller unit for all to watch.

        Tell us how you got it in the stand alone mode. What took low temperature steam and made the electricity to prime the reactor? Tell us this part of the story please.

    • MnMark

      May I respectfully ask how you know that “the concept has been shown to work”? We know nothing of the sort. All we know is that a few outside observers saw some machinery running and we were given some measurements that have not been validated by a neutral, respected authority.

      I have been excited about this and defending it to skeptical friends for six months with the understanding that yesterday all doubts would be put to rest. Instead we got more game-playing.

      Rossi should either stop telling us he’s going to prove it or else actually bring in real experts with real irrefutable tests to prove it.

      • Kim

        My friend. You need to go back three years
        and follow the history.

        Every test I know of has produce excess energy

        Please Review Patterson,Patilini,Miley ect..

        Nickel/Hydrogen excess energy is known,
        has been known

        Rossi Just found the proper catalyst

        No big deal

        • daniel maris

          I’m with you more than the others Kim. I think there is good evidence of hydrogen-nickel anomalous heat experiments and so it is entirely credible that someone working with Focardi might have refined the technique.

    • Learn to spell

      There is no such thing as ‘global warming’.

      http://www.climatedepot.com

      • Robert

        There might not be anthropogenic global warming due to the consumption of petroleum and carbon-based fuels on the scale suggested by many environmental groups (I don’t believe it is zero, but I don’t think it is as extreme as claimed either), but that is a side issue to what might be genuine global warming if this invention of Rossi’s becomes a common household device.

        If it becomes common for ordinary 1st world families to be producing energy on the megawatt scale (perhaps wealthy families producing 10’s of megawatts of power and heat just for themselves), it is a good question to raise where the heat sink for all of that heat is going to end up? I think discussing this problem now is a valid issue to bring up in forums like this and something that would be nice for Rossi to address at some point.

        There may not be global warming at the moment as claimed, but with this invention I think the possibility sort of kicks into overdrive as something very real that needs to be addressed, and being “carbon neutral” becomes a joke. It won’t be a concern about CO2 any more, but rather simply trying to figure out how to dissipate heat. I know of an electrical power plant in Rochester, Minnesota that disposes of waste heat into a nearby lake, where the lake remains ice-free even in the middle of Minnesota winters (they typically get sub-zero Fahrenheit for weeks at a time), and some of the Canadian Geese sometimes over-winter at the lake instead of flying further south.

        I can only imagine what would happen if such heat sinks became much more widespread. Environmental damage is a very real possibility even if it significantly reduces petroleum and coal production world-wide.

  • Bruno Padovani

    How do we even know that a sale was made? The validating factor of the 28 October test was always supposed to be that an outside corporation with irrefutable credentials, whose identity we KNOW, ran the test and paid the money. We only have Rossi’s word that a secret company whose representatives were basically sequestered during the test bought it. I hope my doubts are misplaced, but I’ve gone from being very excited about this on 5 October to very skeptical today.

    • MnMark

      I agree – I also am disillusioned by this October 28th event. As the story notes, we were promised more and it wasn’t delivered. It’s fine for Rossi to be as secretive as he wants, that’s his right. But don’t lead all the rest of us to believe you’re going to put all the doubts to rest on October 28th – making us wait months and months – and then not deliver. What did we really get? We got nothing at all that couldn’t have been faked: a “mystery” customer, results (not even presented without typos) that haven’t been verified by a neutral authority, quick viewings of apparatus running by some observers. We know nothing more than we did after the first demonstration at the beginning of the year. It is very frustrating to keep waiting for some kind of definitive proof provided by objective experts and instead keep getting these “demonstrations” that do not really prove anything.

      I hope it turns out to be true but I do not respect the way Rossi is handling this.

    • Kim

      Your Doubts are misplaced.

      Be Patient, you have not seen any thing yet

      Wait until china gets a hold of this.

      • daniel maris

        I was thinking today that many of our intelligence services must be taking an interest in this. They wouldn’t be doing their job if they weren’t. Again, if this is a scam, why have none of the official agencies moved in either in the USA or Italy e.g. on health and safety grounds to check you the nuclear reaction safety?

        • Robert

          Is it possible they already know what is going on?

          “Cold Fusion” or LENR certainly isn’t a new concept, and other than the production of energy on the scales that Rossi is making right now, there is little need to worry about weaponizing this particular technology. In other words, it could be used as a power plant for a weapon, but as a weapon in and of itself it is of no value. It certainly won’t go “boom” in the night in any manner other than what would happen if you used a pressure cooker and tampered with the pressure relief valve… in other words, just an ordinary boiler explosion. That is hardly something to be a national security risk.

          I am also suggesting that those who might genuinely be worried about this already know what is going on, and aren’t worried about the real “health and safety” issues. Besides, with the levels of power generated, Rossi and every single one of the “observers” would be dead already from radiation exposure if there was significant neutron by-products or high energy gamma rays being emitted by these reactors. Certainly a fission reactor producing this much heat would have killed almost any observer standing that close to an ordinary shipping container with such a reactor inside. There is a reason most such reactors are built with 20 foot thick (sometimes more) concrete walls, and even naval reactors are significantly separated from crew quarters by feet of steel and other protective measures. Those who might be worried simply have to look at the videos to realize there isn’t much to be concerned about.

          If these regulatory agencies thought this is a scam, they are even less worried, as the presumption is that nothing is happening. I presume that the plumbers involved with this “experiment” had experience with boiler and HVAC systems, which would be the only certifications or legal requirements involved in this demonstration at the moment. Handling that much steam does require some skill, and that part doesn’t appear to be faked.

    • Sanjeev

      It is unfortunate that the customer decided to remain secret. I do not know the intention behind this, but knowingly or unknowingly they have contributed to the doubt.
      Most probably reason is that the customer wants to get their hands first in this and wants to keep their competitors in dark.
      The last (failed) deal was not secret at all. (DGT). So I’m hoping that there will be more customers and some of them will reveal their faces.

      However, I do not understand the frustrations of commentators here, this was not supposed to be a ‘public proof’, just a customer’s own test. One should get a hint that Rossi is least interested in proving this to each and everyone of us.

      • Kim

        I agree, it is misfortunate that
        the customer can not be named.

  • Jakub

    I am still not convinced. From http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW_E-Cat_Test_Successful/ – “I’m not sure why they kept the generator running after that, but I would guess it was for back-up or safety.”. After starting the reactor using conventional generator they kept it running, so possible there was no self-sustaining reaction at all and output power was provided by generator. Also I don’t think that any statements that customer was satisfied and will purchase the device are trustworthy without that customer name – there is no proof that there is actually a customer. So the test neither proved scam nor disproved it.

    • rantanplan

      When the e-cat is in self sustained mode it needs not much input. But they can not predict how long it is stable in that mode and they will rather quick need ~130 kW from the generator. So it had to stay powered on I guess. But I’m shure the customer watched the Input from the generator and the generator does only max. 350 kW I read somewhere. So it is not able to fake the hole experiment.

      • Warthog

        The system was probably set up so that the genset provided all power to the shipping container, including the parasitic power needed to run the pumps and instrumentation. This is how it will be set up in the real world.

        Yes, from a “scam detection” point of view, it might have made more sense to have the genset only supply “heater current” and then get the parasitic power from a wall plug.

        Of course, the “ambiguity” can also be removed by revealing how and by what the input energy was measured.

      • Learn to spell

        “shure”? You idiot.

  • s

    Keep in mind that they only ran one power cycle after initial startup. Obviously, this power cycle seemed to produce excess energy. The Oct 6 test also seemed to produce excess energy during the one power cycle that was run. The only question remaining for me is how much does performance degrade or become unstable for each power cycle after the first? I estimate the Ecat might go through 300 to 900 power cycles between 6 month recharges. We really need to see two consecutive power cycles to get an idea if this tech can really go 6 months between recharges.

    The power cycle for the Oct 6 test is easily seen. At 1410, with temperature around 115C, the input power drive wave form was started. At 1553, with temperature boosted to ~123C by the input, power was cut and self sustain mode started. At 1903, temperature had drifted to 116.6C, which is just above the temperature at 1410 when the input drive waveform was started. At 1908 or so, Rossi would have had to turn the power back on to boost the temperature back to ~123C. Then they would wait for it to decay back to 115 or 116C to complete the second power cycle. They instead chose to end the test.

  • Matt

    So what did the customer actually buy? The 1MW plant that leaks and isn’t able to achieve is expected power output? Thats like someone buying a new car, but the oil leaks and instead of 30 mpg it gets 15 mpg…would you buy such a car? The plant hasn’t ever been tested at extended amounts of time has it? Weeks, months?

    Unless this “customer” is buying some type of development rights it doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me.

    • Hampus

      If I had the money I would be it directly. It made 2,3 megawatt power in 5,5 hours and just used a couple grams of nickel and hydrogen. I can deal with alittle bit of leaking if I could heat up my whole town for 90% less cost.

      Now the scientific research at bologna starts and hopefully they will verify independently that it is working, some time after new years Uppsala will get some and also verify cold fusion. It’s not much left now. Just a few months.

      • Kim

        This is correct.

        We are looking at excess energy in large
        amounts.

        Every one gets confused in the details.

    • Jesse

      Refinement of e-cat will progress. This is the Model T of e-cats and they also leaked when brand new.

      • Matt

        Whoops, didn’t see your post, but good to know someone else was thinking on those same lines.

    • Matt

      This would be more like someone buying a prototype of the model T in 1907.

      • Robert

        I think this is more like somebody buying the original Newcomen steam engine. There were ready buyers for the thing even when it was built, and it was almost as controversial when it was built.

        There has been so little research on this concept (LENR) that I can’t imagine that this is the final word on the concept of what might be produced. It is possible that Rossi has stumbled upon a whole class of compounds which could “catalyze” reactions, and I am doubting that even the Nickle-Hydrogen reaction is the only one that could be done in this fashion.

        The comparison to the original steam engines is apt because once the basic concept was established, further refinements made much more efficient devices with much more power, given the same heat source and tasks sought. On top of that, completely new applications of the concept were produced once the basic device was finally built.

    • Sanjeev

      Not only you, a lot of people are unable to comprehend what an overunity device means. I’d buy this leaky water heater even for a billion, if my engineer signs on the acceptance test.

      It is not gold, its a gold mine. Perhaps even more precious.

    • Kim

      The customer bought the concept
      and rights to develop into a
      even greater product.

      They were not expecting perfection.

      They knew the potential

      • Matt

        Are you positive they bought the rights to develop it?

      • Dekzez

        “The customer bought the concept”…….. just the concept?, so that means they bought nothing but a dream till its reality?

  • NewVisions

    There is a difference during development between “milestones” and proof of final concept. Rossi demonstrated sufficient proof to the American Customer. There are probably more milestones to complete.

    Many of the posters here claiming “fraud” have obviously never seriously participated in or created a “startup” company. They can take years to develop… all the time reaching milestones and getting more money from investors– and value– as time goes by until one can start public sales.

    This doesn’t sound dissimilar to that basic approach.

    Good to be a skeptic, but some people here probably wouldn’t believe the Earth is a spheroid even if they were flown around it in a spacecraft. After all, they could have projected the picture of a round Earth on the spaceport windows…

    • Kim

      Your are correct.

      This is a high stake poker game.

      There is no doubt this thing produces large amounts
      of over unity energy.

      I have followed this for 3 plus year.

  • Francesco CH

    Article from Wired about the event of yesterday:

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/29/rossi-success

  • s

    Also, it seems the Ecat did not go into self sustain mode until around 1308 for the Oct 28 test, when the temperature was near the peak of ~112C. This is consistent with the Oct 6 test where power was cut and it went to self sustain mode near the max temp of ~123C and then decayed for the remainder of the test.

    The 1230 time seems to be when the reactor was “powered on” and not when self sustain started. After the reactor is “on” it probably still needs to go through the input power waveform part of the power cycle to reach max operating temperature. That temp is ~112 for this case.

    It could be erroneous to compare the Oct 6 test to ths Oct 28 test. But the Oct 6 test is the only test we have with detailed data to analyze.

    • Kim

      This Device produces excess energy and lots of
      it.

      Its still needs to be developed and stabalize

      but have no doubt we are looking at a new fire.

      Enough Said.

  • Capitão Nascimento

    The big question now is: what was the real role of the Italian company named “Manutencoop Facility Management” on this test?

    “Manutencoop Facility Management” seems to be a subsidiary company of Manutencoop, a Cooperative society:

    http://www.manutencoop.it/profilo_overview.asp

    Why the name of this cooperative was in the metadata of the spreadsheet?

    Is Manutencoop the “secret buyer”?

    Was Manutencoop hired by the “real buyer” to make the measurements? If so, who is the real buyer?

    Will Manutencoop make any official statement about this case?

  • Francesco CH
  • pedrone

    As it’s well known, the catalyzer used by Andrea Rossi in his eCat is a secret, because he did not get yet the patent of his invention.

    Ony two men in the world know the Rossi’s catalyzer used in his eCat: Guglinski and Andrea Rossi.

    It seems Guglinski predicted correctly the catalyzer used in Rossi’s eCat in his paper ”How repulsive gravity contributes for cold fusion in Rossi-Focardi experiment”.
    Look at their talk in the link of Rossi’s blog:
    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=462#comments

    Wladimir Guglinski
    July 14th, 2011 at 9:01 PM
    Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi,
    as you decided do not publish in your blog my paper ”How repulsive gravity contributes for cold fusion in Rossi-Focardi experiment”, then I will publish it in the Peswiki website.
    I think its publication in Peswiki will not cause any inconvenience to you.
    Regards
    WLADIMIR GUGLINSKI

    Andrea Rossi
    July 15th, 2011 at 7:19 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski:
    We have your paper in the list of articles to be published, it is just in line. Of course you can publish it where you want, can we publish it all the same when we will be ready, or you gave the copyright?
    We need again your authorization to publish.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Wladimir Guglinski
    July 15th, 2011 at 9:49 AM
    Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi
    I did not give the copyright to Peswiki.
    I give my authorization to publish my paper ”How repulsive gravity contributes for cold fusion in Rossi-Focardi experiment” in the Journal of Nuclear Physics.
    Regards
    WLADIMIR GUGLINSKI

    Andrea Rossi
    July 15th, 2011 at 10:17 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski,
    Thank you very much, I read your paper and is very interesting, as well as all your work. I just can’t push, but we will publish it.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea

    Wladimir Guglinski
    July 16th, 2011 at 8:10 AM
    Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi
    in my paper it’s suggested the element to be the best catalyzer for your E-Cat.
    In the case the element suggested by my paper is the most important element used as catalyzer in your E-Cat, you can publish the paper with the following note:
    NOTE of the editor:
    Guglinski’s paper suggests correctly the principal element used as catalyzer in the E-Cat.
    However, as Andrea Rossi did not get yet the patent for the E-Cat in USA, the element will not be revealed in the paper here published.

    Andrea Rossi
    July 16th, 2011 at 9:13 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski,
    You are very good in this science and I am sure you are making very good things. I am sure you are among those who are or will be able to replicate my effect studying the patent.
    Warmest Regards, my friend. And a hug to Brazil!
    A.R.

  • arian
  • arian
  • arian
  • Thank You so much
    for bringing us those reports on what could well be the most importnat energy invetntion of all times!

    I hope that Rossi will live up to pur expectations.

    • Kim

      If not Andrea Rossi, it will be someone else

      The Genie is out of the bottle…

      The rest is history.

  • pedrone

    As it’s well known, the catalyzer used by Andrea Rossi in his eCat is a secret, because he did not get yet the patent of his invention.

    Ony two men in the world know the Rossi’s catalyzer used in his eCat: Guglinski and Andrea Rossi.

    It seems Guglinski predicted correctly the catalyzer used in Rossi’s eCat in his paper ”How repulsive gravity contributes for cold fusion in Rossi-Focardi experiment”.
    Look at their talk in the link of Rossi’s blog:
    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=462#comments

    Wladimir Guglinski
    July 14th, 2011 at 9:01 PM
    Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi,
    as you decided do not publish in your blog my paper ”How repulsive gravity contributes for cold fusion in Rossi-Focardi experiment”, then I will publish it in the Peswiki website.
    I think its publication in Peswiki will not cause any inconvenience to you.
    Regards
    WLADIMIR GUGLINSKI

    Andrea Rossi
    July 15th, 2011 at 7:19 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski:
    We have your paper in the list of articles to be published, it is just in line. Of course you can publish it where you want, can we publish it all the same when we will be ready, or you gave the copyright?
    We need again your authorization to publish.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Wladimir Guglinski
    July 15th, 2011 at 9:49 AM
    Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi
    I did not give the copyright to Peswiki.
    I give my authorization to publish my paper ”How repulsive gravity contributes for cold fusion in Rossi-Focardi experiment” in the Journal of Nuclear Physics.
    Regards
    WLADIMIR GUGLINSKI

    Andrea Rossi
    July 15th, 2011 at 10:17 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski,
    Thank you very much, I read your paper and is very interesting, as well as all your work. I just can’t push, but we will publish it.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea

    Wladimir Guglinski
    July 16th, 2011 at 8:10 AM
    Dear Dr. Andrea Rossi
    in my paper it’s suggested the element to be the best catalyzer for your E-Cat.
    In the case the element suggested by my paper is the most important element used as catalyzer in your E-Cat, you can publish the paper with the following note:
    NOTE of the editor:
    Guglinski’s paper suggests correctly the principal element used as catalyzer in the E-Cat.
    However, as Andrea Rossi did not get yet the patent for the E-Cat in USA, the element will not be revealed in the paper here published.

    Andrea Rossi
    July 16th, 2011 at 9:13 AM
    Dear Wladimir Guglinski,
    You are very good in this science and I am sure you are making very good things. I am sure you are among those who are or will be able to replicate my effect studying the patent.
    Warmest Regards, my friend. And a hug to Brazil!
    A.R.

    • Kim

      I was not aware of this. Thanks for the research.

      Its my personal believe that Dekalion probably got
      a core sample, did the spectroscopy and now nows
      the catalyst ect….

  • Is this how events occurred?

    Rossi had a deal with Defkalion to produce E-Cats and Defkalion’s Hyperion Modules, but Defkalion refused to pay Rossi an expected large lump sum fee because Rossi could not deliver, as promised, a E-Cat design that ran indefinitely at full power without any energy input (self-sustain mode). Defkalion figured out the secrets of the E-Cat on their own and felt no legal obligation to pay Rossi so much money when he could not produce a stable product as promised in their contract. Defkalion is now working on their own core research and may or may not have found an answer.

    Rossi then switched to Google to buy his first “One Megawatt” reactor, but Google demanded that Rossi ship the reactor to the USA under his name, not Google’s name, thus avoiding making Google legally liable for a unlicensed fusion reactor. Google set up E-CAT.COM and produced the silly video of people dancing and signing about producing steam, plus added the infamous hoax video of the coal power plant reactor accident. Google is a smart-ass company with a twisted sense of humor.

    So Rossi then sold the first reactor to DARPA, the United States Defense Department’s black ops research department that makes hypersonic aircraft, among other products, and has ties with NASA. DARPA and NASA have been interested in “cold fusion” for some time, but for obvious reasons want to keep their involvement a secret.

    The Russians, the Chinese, the French are all now afraid that nickel-hydrogen fusion is real, and they do not want to be left behind, thus they had technical presence at the test.

    This is all like a high stakes poker game. As soon as people become convinced it is real, they tend to shut-up about it because they all want TO GET THERE FIRST, and they don’t want to be made a laughing stock in case there is a downside to this technology.

    This is just one reading of the rumors and facts surrounding this unique event in world history. It will all make a great movie some day.

    DARPA- http://www.darpa.mil/

    • Kim

      Very well written.

      Yes this is a high stake poker game

      and we will see even more twists.

      Stand by great things are coming.

  • Jon

    Haha. The whole thing is screaming “scam”. A “Secret customer” was satisfied? Please. Consider the following:
    – 500 kW electricity is a lot of power, equivalent of burning roughly 50 liters of oil each hour. Since the whole thing produces “steam”, one needs a steam-to-electricity converter, i.e. a generator plus turbine, none of which was visible. Using steam also means that only around 30% of the energy was converted to electricity, so the gross energy created with steam would be in the range of 1.5 MW. That is equivalent of turning on 700 blow-dryers. The resulting heat would be enourmous, yet no cooling system was visible.
    – one can publish the work after applying for a patent without losing said patent. There is thus no reason to not publish it.
    – there is _no_ backing physical theory.

    To sum it up: A convicted fraudster comes up with a small, cheap device that produces free energy using a totally new, unknown reaction. A reaction that people, among them the best physicists in the world, tried to achive for 60 years now without success. The reason why people believe it is that the promise of free energy is huge and would solve so many of todays problems. Continue following it but remember – it’s fraud, it did never work and it will never work.

    • alexvs

      I agree. I have posted “circus” but scam, fake or fraud applies better.

      • Kim

        using a totally new, unknown reaction.

        Not Correct. Please Educate youself on the
        history of Nickel/Hydrogen cold fusion.

        • Dekzez

          were at a point where it can be 50/50, you dont need to be a scientist to see how swindlers act.
          This might be the most important invention ever, so why bring it to the world this terrible? too good to be true? a very “closed” test where eventually no one really knows the outcome. now with this nothing saying closed test the next step is taken “commercialization” which means spend $$$ on something this mysterious. risky…
          look at how people act in certain ways and open your eyes. yes it COULD be true, the way this is all presented LOOKS like it cant be true. it gives the feeling “look at my magic box. you may see it if you invest”

    • rantanplan

      There was a cooling system. Watch the video from pesn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFiJb2UhzqY&feature=player_profilepage and you can see the cooling part and that this part is outside the building when you watch closely.

      Rossi said shortly he could tell his theory because his intellectual property is protected. Hope he does it soon.

      If there would be a backing mainstream theory I guess we all would have LENR device since 1989 in our homes and the e-cat would not be so groundbreaking as it is.

      • Kim

        Theory of how it works?

        How does the water molecule work.

        I know of about a 1000 theories.

        I Drink water every day.

        • rantanplan

          I answered to Jon’s “- there is _no_ backing physical theory.”

          And I wanted to say exactly what you wrote!

  • alexvs

    That this demo might be considered as successful is only a question of voluntarism. A self sustaining device i.e. without energy input which were capable of lighting a tiny LED or moving a toy d.c. motor would be more convincing than this circus.

    • Kim

      460 Kwh of FREE energy is not a circus.

  • arian

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    October 29th, 2011 at 11:46 AM

    Dear James Bowery:
    max 20 mm in water column was the pressure at the output of the thermocouple.
    The genset has been not turned off because we had to give energy to all the auxiliary motors: water pumps and electric fans of the heat dissipators. Of course the energy consumed from these utilities has not to be put in the energy balance of the reactors, because in an industrial application the energy is not dissipated, is utilized, and the pumps to move the water are necessary in this particular kind of test. In any case, all this is described in the draft report on
    http://db.tt/wu4OLbgk
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • carlo

    http://www.e-cat.com redirects to google green !!!

    • John Thayer

      Perhaps you should try the right link:

      ‎—
      http://www.e-catworld.com/

      • rantanplan

        carlo is talking about one of the two strange websites. e-cat.com and ecat.com

      • Robert

        The above link used to point to a video of Rossi and the e-cat device… at least until yesterday. The comment certainly spot on that something odd is going on.

        As to if that implies Google is involved as the “customer” or a potential future investor in the concept, I can’t say. It certainly is odd and interesting.

        • Allen

          I can redirect my website to whitehouse.gov, but that doesn’t mean the president owns or endorses my website.

  • Guest

    You say in your article: “We’re still waiting for more reporting from the test; the most well known media representative in the room was Peter Svennson of the Associated Press …”

    What additional information do you expect from him ? Did he have better access to the testing equipment, a better insight of the test?
    Was he allowed (and is he qualified) to do his own measurements?

    No! – He only can rely on the information and data Rossi gives him. Should he trust them?
    If he is a serious reporter, he will be cautious with own speculations, with info from second hand, non verified data etc.

    I guess most of the observers (beside the ones from the ‘secret customer’) must habe been quite disappointed by this demonstration. They came from far just for some snacks and a short glimps on the so called 1MW e-cat, because the demo was for the customer exclusevly.

    I would have felt really ‘pissed off’ and would have Rossi politely asked, whether he would be so kind to switch on the e-cat the next day again for another demonstration where I could do my own checks and measurements.
    But obviously this didn’t happen.
    Probably there are many excuses for that like: The customer doesn’t want that; safety and permit issues; have no time because go playing tennis …

    • Tony

      Jumpin’ jesus. You do realize that a kWh is not exclusive to electricity, right? It’s 500 kWh of heat energy. Not electric energy. Honestly, with that kind of mistake, your opinion is pretty much invalid :p

      Also, Rossi wasn’t convicted of fraud. A law, that took effect after his company had already started up, declared the materials he used toxic waste and then went to town. The best you have him on is importing gold into Italy and not declaring it… Which is something a very large number of wealthy people do.

      The device may very well be a hoax, but the “tell-tale” signs that everyone is shvitzing about, don’t exist.

  • arian

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    October 29th, 2011 at 11:58 AM

    Dear Joseph Fine:
    During the hours before the self sustained mode we consumed in total 400 kW and produced in total 300 kW.
    The consume of power during the heat up starts from a power of 10 kW and after this is raised slowly, until we reach 99 Celsius, at that point we give maximum power and as the water begins to vaporize we turn off the resistances and go on with self sustained mode. This is what happened during this test.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • arian

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    October 29th, 2011 at 12:11 PM

    Dear Joseph Fine:
    1- Entire plant, I preferred to lower the power to stay well stable in self sustaining mode, in perfect agreement with the Customer, more interested to the self sustained mode.
    2- no
    3- I will be back in the USA to organize the manufacturing soon. We gotta make jobs.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    #
    Joseph Fine
    October 28th, 2011 at 5:00 PM

    Andrea!

    Good to hear the news.

    Congratulations to you and to those working with you on this important and historic achievement.

    1. Was the 470 KW value for self-sustaining power produced by one half of the plant or by the entire plant – (both halves together)?

    2. Did you switch between Side 1 and Side 2 and operate each of the halves in self sustaining mode?

    3. Are you going to buy back your house in Florida, or are you planning to move?

    If so, we’d like to have you move here or build here in New Jersey. The winters are cold in NJ, but not as cold as in New Hampshire. Now, of course, you can heat with the E-CAT, once you get permissions from the local authorities.

    Joseph

  • Johannes Hagel

    Hm … I have to admit, it becomes rather difficult to defend Rossi and stand to a positive and optimistic view of the E-Cat. However, there is a simple action Rossi should perform: Stick to his promise to submit the concept to independent research entities like the universities of Bologna and Uppsala. Now he has the financial means in his hands, isn’t it? This would still indicate to me that there is no fraud by intention…. Really difficult situation!

  • I know who the customer is

    “Manutencoop Facility Management”

    What this company has to do with the test?

    Will someone take the time to ask them?

    • You don’t know who the customer is. Is it not just possible that the customer hired Manutencoop to provide engineering consultant services to validate the 1mw plant? That’s the way real business is done.

    • Nicola

      As far as i know Manutencoop is a cooperative of contract cleaners

      • Pierre

        Manutencoop Facility Management S.p.A. provides management services for real estate, building, and equipment. Its services include management and maintenance of heat conditioning, air conditioning and refrigerating systems, antifire systems, electric and lighting systems, buildings, real estate, and technological equipments. The company also provides cleaning and pest control, hospital laundry and sterilization, office support, accessorial, catering and canteen, security, and night watch services; and real estate property services. In addition, it offers patrimonial registry office services, such as relief, technical and economic analysis, building systems and advising services, technical do…

  • Sanjeev

    It is difficult for me to understand the expectation of everyone that this test should somehow prove the authenticity of the device to everyone. The customer did his own test before buying it, it was not for the public.

    I’m amazed that the signed copy of results and data was made public. Generally this is never done, even for a plain routine deal of any kind. Rossi and his customer must have thought that this will somehow benefit general public, but as one can see, it has done nothing.

    I’ve followed many overunity claims and it is my first hand experience that no amount of proof is enough in such cases. There is always something left to doubt, because you are not a part of it, you are sitting at home watching remotely. There is no way to convince general public. Please keep this in mind.

    Rossi probably knows this. Convincing public of his invention’s truth is last of his priorities. The only proof is when you will get one in your house and see it working.

    He is doing the right thing in not wasting his time on public demos, writing papers, guessing theories etc etc. This is all a waste, when you have an overunity device sitting on the table. The best thing to do is to make a prototype and sell the tech to anyone who can develop it.

    I agree that a press release by the customer would have raised hopes of it all being true. But I do not think that this will prove anything. At most people will doubt that the customer is also supporting a scam. Perhaps this is the reason, they want to remain unknown and this will also give them a competitive edge.

    • I wish people would stop referring to the Rossi E-Cat as an “overunity device.” The E-Cat is not a perpetual motion machine that runs on mysterious zero point energy. The E-Cat is a nuclear reactor that runs on fuel that can be measured and held in your hand. A fission nuclear reactor is not an overunity device either. They both run on fuel, not on mysticism.

      • Johannes Hagel

        This is a very important point! The E-Cat is NOT a perpetuum mobile but just a sort of energy transformer. A not yet fully understood nuclear reaction (or something of this sort) transforms nuclear (strong) bounding forces into heat, leaving us with nuclei of lower energy content.
        However, it has NOTHING to do with mysterious “free energy” or worse “orgon” – energies or whatever new age phantasies. We should not confuse “not yet fully understood” with metaphysics.

    • alexvs

      To answer the title of this thread: “what-did-the-e-cat-test-achieve?”: “Nothing”.
      For skeptics the confirmation of scam, for believers inconclusive results, for Mr. Rossi who knows and for the mysterious customer there are two possible facts: Naive customer / no customer at all.

  • arian

    Validation of New Energy Source from nickel -hydrogen reaction by Rowan University in 2008.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg

  • arian

    Article about e-cat test in poland media.

    http://gadzetomania.pl/2011/10/29/ruszyly-testy-reaktora

  • Hyman Rosen

    There must be a pony in here, because we sure could use a pony!

  • dandelion

    Kind Sirs, I am amazed that no one speaks here about the most important thing: TRANSMUTATION at kitchen oven temperature and energey levels, using household appliances.

    The word here is not STEAM, but COPPER.

    The energy balance of the experiment is of little concern as long as it is almost 1:1. Just a little over 1:1 and it is TREMENDUOUS, as long as there is COPPER out of NI H in the reactor.

    Transmutation at little to no energy consumption is the most important thing here.

    The change in theoretical physics brought by this reaction is the most important issue here. If the mainstream science aknowledges the reality of copper out of Ni H nuclear reaction, the whole world of science will begin to pursue this new road, with results much more important than what dr. Rossi seems to be doing.

    Ah, the Ni H reaction produces heat! Hm, this is just a convenient byproduct of something much more important, people – transmutation al kitchen oven temperature and energy levels.
    And if this creates some surplus energy, be shure that 10 years of intense scientific study and experimentation will make us laugh about the mere 1:6 energy balance of whatever dr. Rossi has created.

    Not the 1MW plant matters here, but the copper. The transmutation. That would be simple to demonstrate and replicate, and impossible to ignore by any man of science.

    • Zed

      and all copper piping has been checked for corrosion/electrolysis?

    • alexvs

      Artificial transmutation was achieved by Frederic Joliot and Irene Curie as soon as 1932 bombarding Al with alpha particles. The got Si as decay product of resulting instable P isotope.
      After James Chadwick discovered the neutron Enrico Fermi, Joliot-Curie, Otto Hahn et altri could trasmute several low atomic number elements bombarding those with neutrons. This stuff is just not new. The crucial point is now as before the energy balance.
      If you can get some miligrams of Thorium you can be sure that a continuous transmutation into Pb is taking place. So please, let’s be serious. About the amount of copper resulting from the supposed LENR at Rossi’s device we have only Rossi’s word, to which each one may attribute as much credibility as he wishes.

      • Zed

        In this case, at least in theory, you can obtain a valuable transmutation and get energy -out- of it, instead of wasting more energy than the value of what you get back.
        pretty significative difference I would say.

      • dandelion

        As Zed said + Transmutation using household appliances, at kitchen oven temperatures and energy levels (as opposed to particle acceleration…). Get it, alexvs? 😉

        • Tom

          Why is transmutation more important than free energy? Is there a copper shortage or something? I suppose there’s an economists standpoint and a scientists standpoint.

    • rossini

      “Kind Sirs, I am amazed that no one speaks here about the most important thing: TRANSMUTATION at kitchen oven temperature and energey levels, using household appliances.”

      That’s why there is no credible poof of this concept^^
      I belief nearly every physicist, engineer or chemist would be able to do a proper calorimetry test, and will agree that this is necessary. But we shall belief that this was not possible in a course of 12 promo events?

  • alexvs

    Excuse me for posting again. Only to put things right.

    Artificial transmutation was achieved by Frederic Joliot and Irene Curie as soon as 1932 bombarding Al with alpha particles. The got Si as decay product of resulting instable P isotope.
    After James Chadwick discovered the neutron Enrico Fermi, Joliot-Curie, Otto Hahn et altri could trasmute several low atomic number elements bombarding those with neutrons. This stuff is just not new. The crucial point is now as before the energy balance.
    If you can get some miligrams of Thorium you can be sure that a continuous transmutation into Pb is taking place. So please, let’s be serious. About the amount of copper resulting from the supposed LENR at Rossi’s device we have only Rossi’s word, to which each one may attribute as much credibility as he wishe

    • Tylar

      Not just Rossi’s word. We also have the word of those at the demonstration as well as the word of the universities sponsoring further experimentation. It would have been nice if the demonstration was a bit more public, though.

  • alexvs

    To Zed.

    As said before, the energy balance is the issue. Transmutation occurs naturally in several elements. Some of them as for instance, Th (100%), In and Re present in its natural state radioactive isotopes. But the average disintegration time is so high that only few p.p.m. of their atoms experiment observable disintegration and creation of other elements. Well known is the decay serie of Th which leads to stable Pb as final product.

    • dandelion

      You still do not seem to get it. No one is talking here about natural transmutation which occurs due to well known physical fenomenons. We are talking here about Ni and H – and I dare you to present me with cases of normal Ni transmuting into copper naturally… Do you understand what kind of transmutation are we talking about here? 😉

      • alexvs

        Yes, I do as I have posted before. I insist: Energy balance.

  • arian

    #
    Andrea Rossi
    October 30th, 2011 at 4:14 AM

    Dear Dave Price:
    Yes, R&D with Bologna and Uppsala Universities is the next scientific step, while the manufacturing and commercialization go on.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Johannes Hagel

      Bravo Dr. Rossi! This is the best you can do in order to certify scientific credibility of the E-Cat concept!
      For comerzialisation: Will the public be able to follow this process? What are the expected time spans?

  • Pingback: What did the E-Cat Test Achieve? | ColdFusionBlog.net()

  • Daniel

    I have been a great believer in this technology but the latest submission by Rossi can only serve to fuel distrust and scepticism.

    My only hope now is that Rossis’ mind and thought process is so complex he is not able to identify and pursue a simple technical demonstration which would demonstrate longevity of function to a layman. This opportunity has passed again.

    Whilst the argument that he may be able to claim IP with a series of tests with a functioning model may hold some weight, surely a simple demonstration of sustained operation would refute any challenge or doubt to his patent application and thus achieve end goal.

    Now I will continue to follow this experiment more in hope that expectation.

  • daniel maris

    What do we know about the customer’s consultant (or so he is described) – Domenico Fioravanti. Surely that is key now. Do we know much about him? IS he someone with real expertise in this sort of area?

  • arian
  • alexvs

    To Mr. Dandelion.

    The obtention of an element number from element number-1 plus proton has been documented as early as thirties of last century although I do not remember who did it. This applies to 62Ni + 1H –> 63Cu both stable isotopes being 62Ni 3% of natural Ni. Perhaps Google helps.

  • clovis

    I think this is all very real,and i say hello new world. either get on the train or get left behind.

    • anonymous

      You’re on the train alright. The train to Auschwitz.

  • Gary

    Is it April first already ? If a 12 year old submitted those test results he would get a C-. Not what I would expect for a million dollar sale. A real test is REPEATED. If I was the customer I would want 8 weeks, not 8 hours. Also your steam average is wrong. It is 90, not 104. Average means from the beginning to the end. Is it amateur hour. The one constant that never changes is Human nature. You can work out the rest.

    • Terry Rothberg

      No it is not April One. It is Halloween! Trick or Treat. We got a trick here. A grade of C is being too generous which is probably related to why this Rossi guy got this far!

  • Pingback: Poster's Paradise » Links 3DPrintReport Cold Fusion Times Energy Catalyzer (Wikipedia Article) FrankAcland.com (My Author Site) Journal of Nuclear Physics (Andrea Rossi’s Site) New Energy and Fuel Nickelpower Oilprice.com PESWiki The E-Ca()

  • Pingback: The E-Cat Conspiracy? | Jay's Rants()