Rossi responds to Defkalion

The information published about their Hyperion products yesterday by Defkalion Green Technologies, and the NyTeknik article the day before has elicited a response from Andrea Rossi. On his Journal of Nuclear Physics site, Rossi writes:


Defkalion’s press release and technical specification sheet do not mention Andrea Rossi, nor E-Cat technology, and of course they are not publicly stating that they stole technology from Andrea Rossi. NyTeknik did quote DGT President Alexandros Xanthoulis as saying back in August that he knew “everything” about Rossi’s reactor through spectrocity done (apparently unbeknownst to Rossi) at the University of Siena.

There are still many questions surrounding both Rossi’s and Defkalion’s products, and the dispute between the two parties looks like it will persist while both are trying to succeed in bringing their technologies into the marketplace. At the moment it would seem that Rossi has the advantage in that he has produced physical products which have been tested and observed by third parties who have published test data, and he has evidently succeeded in selling power plants (although the secret nature of the first customer makes those sales hard to verify). So far we have heard from no one outside of the Defkalion organization who has tested a working Hyperion product or reported having seen one working

In the final analysis it will be working products in the real world that will convince the world of the reality of LENR/Cold Fusion technology — once that is established, as with any technology, whoever has the best products and services will win out in the marketplace.h

UPDATE: Defkalion GT has responded to a newly published article by NyTeknik entitled “Defkalion shows specs but no technology” In the response, Alexandros Xanthoulis made some clarifications to information previously reported by NyTeknik.

Here are some excerpts from the article:

“Regarding the earlier claim from Defkalion about the knowledge of what’s inside Rossi’s reactor, Defkalion has now clarified that the spectroscopy was performed at the University of Padua (not Siena), where this analysis actually was performed, commisioned by Rossi.

The results of this measurement was published by Rossi and Focardi in their paper from 2010, describing the technology.

– – – –

UPDATED 2 (Dec 1): In an interview with Ny Teknik,  Alexandros Xanthoulis, representing the owners of Defkalion, stated that:

– Defkalion started to think of developing its own technology in July 2011.
– 12 Hyperion prototypes are now running.
– The factory of 11,000 square meters in Xanthia will be ready in four months.
– The Defkalion lab will be transferred to a 2,500 square meter lab at the Xanthia location in a few weeks.
– 19 license agreements have been made.
– No money has yet been transfered. Interested companies will pay 500,000 Euros in an escrow account before testing a final product. Half of the license fee of 40.5 million Euros should be be paid at delivery of know-how, and the remaining part after ten days of operation of a factory producing Hyperion products.
– 27 scientists work in-house at Defkalion”
– A total of 40 people are employed at Defkalion.

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  • Defkalion has a better product. They don’t need to use the Rossi catalyst because theirs is better.

    • Francesco CH

      They have no product.

      Why do they not show their product while working if they have something?

      Because they have a box without nothing in it.

    • energyliberator

      Yes, from what they are saying it looks like their product is better. At least it seems more professionally presented but they still haven’t shown a physical device and nobody outside DGT has ever commented about seeing a device or their facilities.

      • Andrea Rossi has not had the same kind of money or resources. He will still be selling the old party line telephone version in the age of Ipod phones.

        He has no legal right to any advancement Defkalion has made, and by entering into the original agreement with him he had granted them license into this business.

        They claim Rossi is using their 3 reactor prototype and not one of his design, and also claim they have left him in the dust.

        I like Andrea Rossi, and I also like Piantelli, and their research was wonderful and I hope they get schools named after them. However Andrea Rossi has refused money he could have thrown at this to make it better. The world wants this yesterday and by his business plan I will have one in my house by 2030, and what is up with his incredulous prices. Its a tiny reactor, and can probably be mass produced for less than $10 each.

      • Zero

        I think it’s time for a little private “espionage”. I mean seriously how secure can these places be? Get in, “borrow” a reactor, get out. If there’s nothing to this story that’s the quickest way or figuring it out.

        • Private Contractor

          Can we get details on where Rossi’s “working” reactors are currently located? Security. Alarms. Escape routes etc.
          As well as those Defkailion idiots, they have 12 “working” reactors too apparently, and a press release with “specs”.

          WOW! Anyone want to see the specs for my reactor?? Give me two weeks and I should have something typed up. Tell you what! Its bigger than both of theirs!

          Rossi has people working for him, and Defkalion has “27 scientists”…and 40 staff… Kidnapping is always an option too!

          Would anyone like to help put together an action plan… Cant be that hard! Easier than trying to find and shoot Bin Laden.

          I am sure we would end up with a satisfactory “product”. If it works. we can either give it to the chinese and save the world from global warming.
          Properly test it and release proper results and make all the believers and skeptics “finally” happy with a conclusion. Put the build specs online.
          Sell the information to the highest bidder. Take over planet Earth.. who cares! It might be fun.

          Well I feel totally justified in doing something a bit underhanded.. if it could create a better world! Anyone want to help???

  • clovis

    Energy is a high stakes game,you don’t get a second chance,Defkalion,had their chance and squandered it. end of story.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Sigh. Grand opera, the Three-Penny Opera, nickel opera.

    • Robert Mockan

      We either go to the penny arcade, or we have a miracle. The advertising, price structuring, marketing, and so on, all look unsustainable.
      And all dependent on “certification”. Until this technology gets the green light by regulatory agencies, or until the regulatory agencies say they want to regulate it, then approve it, all plans will remain very preliminary.

  • hurrok

    “Rossi has the advantage in that he has produced physical products which have been tested and observed by third parties who have published test data.”

    Please can you link to this independent third party verification, as the last I heard we’re still waiting on any customer going public.

    • admin

      I was referring to the testing done by Levi, Kullander, Essen, NyTeknik and Fioravanti that have been done of the past year. I didn’t say “independen”t third parties because in these cases Rossi was present and helping with the testing.

  • Francesco CH
    • Sanjeev

      This is new there:
      In an interview with Ny Teknik, Alexandros Xanthoulis, representing the owners of Defkalion, stated that:

      – Defkalion started to think of developing its own technology in July 2011.
      – 12 Hyperion prototypes are now running.
      – The factory of 11,000 square meters in Xanthia will be ready in four months.
      – The Defkalion lab will be transferred to a 2,500 square meter lab at the Xanthia location in a few weeks.
      – 19 license agreements have been made.
      – No money has yet been transfered. Interested companies will pay 500,000 Euros in an escrow account before testing a final product. Half of the license fee of 40.5 million Euros should be be paid at delivery of know-how, and the remaining part after ten days of operation of a factory producing Hyperion products.
      – 27 scientists work in-house at Defkalion
      – A total of 40 people are employed at Defkalion.

  • Kaiser David

    I’m not an energy expert at all, but I’m an economist. And I personally think these guys are not professional at all and come up with the final developed product? If there is something on this, then you would get money instantly from private equity, banks and so on. That’s how you do this. I think I will not follow up this any longer. Just followed this now for three weeks and I have seen enough. Italian, Greeks, all the same, don’t care any longer. Regards from Switzerland.

    • Matt Smart

      David K,

      I think you have a valid point about private equity, but who knows what is currently happening behind closed doors…

      As for you following this story for merely three weeks and getting fed up with it already, I’m afraid to say you are but an amateur in the world of following LENR/Cold Fusion, some of us have been following this particular story for almost a year, some of us have been following the LENR/Cold Fusion breakthroughs for a few years, some of us here have been following it all for decades! You will certainly not have your easy simple answers very quickly unfortunately, but it does seem we are a whole lot closer to that point now. Have a little patience; you could well be missing a rather huge story by giving up so soon.

      • Hot Fusion

        I’d say this ‘Defecation’ is closely cooperating with AR for making impression the AR is a brave hero to be trusted.
        Their web is funny, my 14 years old daughter would generate this in adobe in two days…

      • Robert Horning

        The interesting thing is how millions of euros are being claimed as having already been spent (or at least put in escrow) to “license” these devices… yet almost nobody is even admitting to building these devices in spite of this exotic licensing scheme.

        It is sounding more and more like a scam to me all of the time, and this statement by Rossi only seems to put him as a scammer instead of a real inventor. While this looks interesting, I too am going to need to put this on a back burner in terms of what I might do with it.

    • pan metron ariston

      > Italian, Greeks, all the same, don’t care any longer.
      >>This coming from the ALL ETHICAL SWISS man.

  • Francesco CH

    “- A total of 40 people are employed.”

    The 40 Thieves of Ali Baba?

  • Paolotini

    what is it?



  • Waiting

    So Defkalion is asking for 384 million euros to be paid before they actually deliver anything. (19*40.5/2 = 384.75). All they have to do is Rossi-style, in-house demos for the licensees, and then give them “know-how” information. That doesn’t sound entirely legit.

  • Yong

    Defkalion is a bad example of dishonesty. How can you break a contract (with Rossi) and then make a similar product (as e-CAT) yourself? Apparently Defkalion can not be trusted and, also other companies may do the same against Defkalion as soon as Defkalion releases their product if they have one.

    • pan metron ariston

      bad example of dishonesty = good example of honesty.

      You can break a contract once you know the other side a) is not fulfilling their promises b) you have nothing to gain from them.

      Not sure if Defkalion would invest money, time and potential legal actions against them if they don’t have a playing card in their hands.

      As far as i know neither side is convincing however it is also apparent there is a race between them.

  • Ron

    It seems to me that the real bottom line is “does it produce gamma rays”?
    Since these rays are not hard to detect (just get a sodium iodide (NaI) scintillator), fire up the reactor with the detector running, take a reading and then shut the unit down, take another reading. Have an independent person there to watch and report (I do volunteer) and we have proof that there’s a fusion reaction. End-of-story. No secrets are given away. It’s much harder to create gamma rays than it is to create steam. It’s much harder to turn gamma rays on and off.

    • Waiting

      Rossi allowed someone to measure that once. They found no gammas. That suggested his reactor wasn’t what he claimed.

      But Rossi fixed that problem. He never again allowed anyone to make that measurement, during any other demo. So no more negative data. Problem solved.

      • Ron

        As I understand the construction of the reactor, the secret formula is contained in metal rods. Would we expect the gamma rays to penetrate the metal that houses the reaction? If that’s the case, then why have the extra shielding around the reactor core?

        • Waiting

          It’s supposedly a container with thin stainless steel walls, inside a copper pipe. That shouldn’t stop any gamma rays. Rossi claims the lead shielding is needed to stop all the gamma rays that escape that pipe.

          But the one time he allowed it to be measured, the result suggested the reactor wasn’t genuine. After that, he never allowed it to be measured again.

  • Cliff Bradley

    This is a high stakes game and the latest Defkalion revelations show that people will steal intellectual property without compunction for the kind of money involved. I guess that’s why Rossi has kept everything so secret for so long. Even his precautions may not be enough. Let’s hope that the people who stole his ideas don’t get away with it.

    • Kim

      Children playing games while rome burns.


  • Francesco CH

    Letter from Christos Stremmenos
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Dear Mats Lewan,

    With regard to recent statements from Defkalion GT, I declare, also in terms of repercussions in a legal sequel, as follows:
    1. My complete absence from any scientific or technological contribution to the alleged technology development that Defkalion GT claims to have carried on after the termination of the agreement with the EFA (Rossi).
    2. For ethical reasons, I have no personal relationship with that company since about half a year.
    3. The adoption by them of any suggestion from me, or working hypothesis discussed calmly at a scientific level, before the termination of the contract with Rossi, is a violation of my intellectual property rights.
    4. I can assure you that the core technology of the E-cat of has not been granted by Mr. Rossi, and neither by me as I have no knowledge about it. I think for what I’m concerned, that I have provided sufficient evidence to resolve any transfer of technology from Rossi to Defkalion GT.
    For the rest… no comment!

    Cordial Greetings
    Prof. Ch Stremmenos

    • Kim

      Children playing games while rome burns.


  • I found the catalyst and the formula! I’m the inventor!

    Nickel + Hydrogen + Stupidity = Cold Fusion

    • Paolotini


      • And here’s the corollary…

        Cold Fusion = Incognito Customers = Investors

    • Formula error. The more accurate formula: Your Mama – Stupidity = nothing.

  • Sanjeev

    Somebody should tell Peter Thiel about the Ecat.

    This is the new thing he has started.

  • Sanjeev


    Why is everyone here saying that DGT has stolen the tech from Rossi when he himself denies it ?
    If Rossi is so confident, it might be possible that DGT took some inspiration from some gamma measurements and came up with a similar and better powder.

    When the real stealing begins there will be no announcements or spec sheets, you will simply find the heaters in the shop marked ‘assembled in taiwan’. This is the way everything works nowadays.

    Its altogether another question whether DGT has real goods. Hopefully not all of their 19 licensees are military and some will show their faces, … hopefully.

    • Francesco CH

      Because DTG said so!

      • Sanjeev

        They say they know the secret, but they are not using it. Their tech is ‘different’.

        Who will steal things and then declare in press next day ?

        Perhaps pseudo-skeptic logic will come up with something funny. 🙂

        • Francesco CH

          They say they know the secret, but they are not using it because they want to convince Rossi to return and cooperate with them.

          I suspect this strategy will not work.

          • Sanjeev

            This blackmail theory does not work. Rossi will not believe them and may demand a proof that they really have the secret.

            If they don’t show a proof, no cooperation. If they have the secret, it makes no sense to ask for his cooperation.

            Assuming for a sec that Rossi is hare brained and will fall for this trick, DGT still needs to pay him, which they could have done without such blackmail.

        • Only if Defkalion knows how Rossi’s device works, could they possibly declare that their device is different. If there device is the same they are walking into a patent hornet’s nest. If their device works differently, they may avoid Rossi’s pending patents altogether. (This, actually, depends very much on what claims in the patent are approved, not on whether Defkalion’s device is “somehow different”.)

  • Sanjeev

    DGT broke their agreement with Rossi because the condition of 48 hours of self sustained operation was not fulfilled. This is the DGT’s side of explanation.

    Its like a contracted china factory asking Apple to double the iPhone screen size, else refusing to assemble it.

    I was wondering behind the rationale of DGT demanding 48 hours of self sustained operation instead of 24 hours, which Rossi agreed upon.

    Who in their right mind would run this nuclear thing in self runaway mode for 48 hours ? Secondly, why would DGT demand improvements, when their agreement was to simply manufacture whatever is available?

    Rossi’s side of explanation is, DGT did not pay up. The most probable reason for breaking the deal seems to be that (imho) DGT found out the secret somehow and decided not to waste their money on Rossi. They needed an excuse for not paying or breaking up and that was their 48 hour demand.

    May be I’m missing something, things are already very confusing.

    • Francesco CH

      Read carefully this:

      “Multiple sources told Ny Teknik that they have received such offers [testing and certification] and that they are interested. They have also stated that such tests should have been performed already in October 2011, but that they have been postponed several times.

      Xanthoulis gave no further information on verification of the core technology, except that it will be made by third parties later this year.”

      So, if they have 12 full working prototypes of their product why they postponed the test with the potential customers?

      ANSWER: they have nothing, they hope to be the first in the world able to copy Rossi’s device.

      • Sanjeev

        Anyone who wants to copy the tect would simply buy a 1MW Ecat, copy it, improve it, change it a bit and remain invisible while doing this.

        To sell this copycat product, they would simply set up another co, call the product something totally different, no mention of LENR or Ni, no mention of Rossi, file some patents and make billions.

        DGT has done exactly opposite. They are making a lot of noise. Openly say they know the secret, openly declare their products a next gen Ecat, etc etc.

        They are asking payments via escrow, which means no money if the test fails. Its possible that they talk of escrow just for luring clients, and later demand bags full of cash before testing. But this will end their business in no time, possibly resulting in a legal action.

        Year end is only 30 days away, so the truth should come out soon. Next week we will possibly see another competitor.

        • Robert Mockan

          When they beta test their product by paying 12 home owners to test it for 6 months, then provide the glowing testimonials about how wonderful the product is, and how much money it save them, showing their home bills as proof, that will add some credibility to the claims.

          Oh, what was that? No beta testing?

          All right. I’m sure their money back guarantee and allowing returns for any reason for 6 months will resolve a lot of the issues.

          Oh, what was that? No money back guarantee?

          All right. I know that if the $200 annual maintenance fee is waved for the first 100 buyers, that will be good PR!

          Oh, what was that? They do not have product to sell on the market yet? And they want money up front?


    • Sanjeev, the answer to this question, “Secondly, why would DGT demand improvements, when their agreement was to simply manufacture whatever is available?” is provided by you in the very next line. “Rossi’s side of explanation is, DGT did not pay up.” The false premise of the first question is that their agreement was not “to simply manufacture…”, their agreement was for them to INVEST! Would you want to see a 48 hour test before investing if you had agreed to expect a 48 hour test before investing?

      From everything I have read, Defkalion withheld a payment because a predetermined test was not forthcoming. Rossi got all upset, and told them to go to hell. Only then Defkalion decided to consider that they could do it without Rossi.

      If my understanding is correct, Defkalion’s behavior is at least reasonable (able to be reasoned).

  • – “12 Hyperion prototypes are now running”

    It would be good to see one or more running before buying. There is a claim of a 1:25 COP.

    It would have been good to hear we have a product
    for sale January 1 at a price.

    • daniel maris

      Why no videos of the machines working of the assembly area or the 40 workers and 27 scientists…

      In short – why all the secrecy? It’s not good enough to make these claims without showing us what is going on. It only breeds scepticism and cynicism.

      • Sanjeev

        A video will simply invite even more skepticism. Because any video can be faked. A 12 year old child can easily make a video of a working cold fusion machine with 40 scientists around it.

        You will find a ton of free energy machines on youtube, complete with all measurements and building instructions. I’m sure you will not ask for another video again, if you watch some.

        If you really want to see it, visit them with a business proposal and your technical team.

        If you are easily convinced by a video, there will be a thousand others who will be not. Its clear that you and me are not very high up in their list of VIPs or CIPs.

        I’ve repeatedly said here that when you are watching remotely through the net, no amount of proof is enough, everything under the sky can be faked. You need to get involved in real. Of course, I don’t expect anyone who comments here to be so rich, else they wouldn’t be here 😀

        • Wes

          At least Rossi attempted to put on a good show. If Defkalion cannot even afford a second string special effects dept, how to they expect decent free press coverage? Even a circus has a trained clown.

          • Robert Mockan

            The image your comment creates in my mind is the Defkalion company and BOZO the clown.
            It is not reassuring.

  • Alexvs

    Considering that any normal poster in LENR blogs/fora is able to produce 240 watts during 5 minutes and estimating 100,000 posts emitted about this story, it yields an energy equal to 2 Mw/h, far more than the total energy produced by all Rossi/Defkalion device tests.
    Energy spended in tests is to be added to the 2 Mw/h figure.

  • Sanjeev

    Another competitor in fusion energy.

  • Pingback: Rossi responds to Defkalion |

  • Sanjeev

    There will be indpepenant third party tests, allready scheduled, within the first months of 2012 and prior to Hyperion’s market entry

  • What is the difference between the Ecat and Hyperion?

    Rossi cannot show that it works because he does not have the time.

    DGT can show that it works if they have the time.

    So here’s the logic:

    A = show that it works
    B = have the time

    Rossi = not A if not B
    DGT = A if B

    Two completely different ways to imply the same meaning: stonewall.

    • Wes

      …and thus a connection…

      (Beware of Greeks bearing gifts)

      • You mean the lithium ion batteries in the Hyperion back panel once the 20.25 million Euro balance has been paid?

  • > 500,000 Euros in an escrow account

    Any word on what firm is behind this “escrow account”?

    I mean for all we know it could be a complete fly-by-night.

  • TRANSLAT.PL. It belongs to support wide production, because as firms OPEC and such technologies will be monopoly INTEL – e.g. STANDARD OIL. Some (certain) increment be belong from production for continuation of research framers – e.g. 1 billion dollars it has found continuation knowledge –

  • Leo

    (wise people think before they make any statement)
    Rossi said:
    So Rossi said Defkalion technology is NOT his technology!
    According to this statement Defkalion CANE patent
    They technology!
    Xanthoulis spend this weekend with Grease Prime Minister now all
    “Thing” seeing to be Grease National interest.

  • Filip

    My Professor of Physics say :COLD FUSION IS absolutely IMPOSIBLE…
    This is Communist plot,
    If A. Rossi E-Cat is working and have been granted with US Patent Office
    My professor must return his diploma back? Because he teach us wrong
    18 years old from Kentucky.

    • Brad Arnold

      “I do not think it is “amazing that the media has not paid more attention to” Rossi. His claims seem astounding. They resemble those of many previous energy scams. Reporters and scientists dismiss Rossi for this reason.

      I would dismiss him myself if I did know that hundreds of other researchers have seen similar effects thousands of times. I myself have spent weeks in laboratories watching cold fusion gadgets produce heat. It is boring after a while.

      Knowing that the effect has been widely replicated in hundreds of major laboratories puts everything in a different perspective. It makes Rossi far more believable. Believability in experimental physics is predicated on two things: independent replication and a high signal to noise ratio. Cold fusion met these goals back in 1990. There is not a single rational reason to doubt it exists.

      The thing is, most reporters and scientists, and people such as Glen Doty know nothing at all about cold fusion. They do not realize it exists. They have not read any papers on the subject. So naturally they say “I’m confident that this is a fraud…” In 1906, three years after Kitty Hawk and one year after the Wrights flew in front a large crowd of leading citizens of Dayton Ohio for 40 minutes, every single newspaper and magazine in the U.S. — especially Scientific American — denounced them as frauds, charlatans and lunatics. Not one of those newspapers bothered to send someone to Dayton to ask the bank president and others if they had really seen a flight.

      The editors at Scientific American today are no smarter than their predecessors. They told me they have never read a paper on cold fusion “because reading papers is not our job” but they are sure it is fraud and lunacy. (I uploaded that letter.)

      The real question is not why is the mass media is ignoring Rossi, but why have they ignored the rest of cold fusion for 22 years? My answer: because they are stupid, and incurious.”

      JedRothwell, May 4, 2011

  • Giovanni

    Here a link of the Defkalion factory if you are interested. Coordinates 41.1188, 24.8674, The factory is the building on the left with the factory symbol on it.
    Translate the comment you get when you click on the building and see what you get.