Rossi: $30 Million for an Infinite COP Plant Producing 7.5 MW Electrical Power

Andrea Rossi commented further on the 45 MW plant he has been talking about recently:

Dear Dr Joseph Fine:
1- In a 45 MW plant, if Siemens gives us 30% of efficiency, the COP is not 6, is infinite: the energy to drive the resistances will be made by the E-Cat: if we make 45 thermal MWh/h, 15 electric MWh/h will be made, of which 7.5 will be consumed by the plant, 7.5 will be sold, together with30 thermal MWh/h.
2- The price of a 45 MW plant will be in the order of 30 millions.
3- the price of the energy made by our industrial plants will be made by the owners and by the market.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

$30 million of course is no small investment, but if the cost of fuel after the plant is built is negligible, the plant may pay for itself quite swiftly. These sized plants could be used for local power in industrial, commercial or residential settings — or to feed into the grid. There would be plenty of excess heat also, that might be able to be reclaimed, partially at least.

It seems that Rossi’s design is dependent upon the size of the Sieman turbine — he has said repeatedly that he is not interested in working around technologies that are in the theoretical or prototypical stage. It’s possible that a scaled down version of this turbine could be built, but it looks like Rossi is going to build around what is available right now.

  • daniel maris

    Is it that easy to tap the 30 MW heat if it is being used in the electricity generation process? Doesn’t a lot diffuse into the atmosphere?

    • psi

      Dan, cogeneration of heat and electricity is commonly done in European cities where neighborhoods have district hot water heating. Such systems are extremely efficient because, in fact, most of the heat used originally as steam to generate electricity can be reclaimed in the form of hot water, stored in sufficient quantity to create a large and stable thermal mass with proper underground insulation, and then recirculated as hot water heat on a neighborhood scale. The chief obstacle to such technologies is merely the lack of district heat infrastructure, which usually doesn’t exist in US neighborhoods with single family dwellings. But it might be very cost effective to install if devices such as the one Rossi is projecting become real.

      • daniel maris

        I’d accept “most” but not all. Rossi seemed to be suggesting all of it was available for sale.

        Surely the point is that with it being so cheap you can afford to waste the heat, although district heating could be used in some places.

        • psi

          There are always losses. But cogeneration is, generally, highly efficient, because by far the majority of the home energy consumption at end use is for heat (or cooling), not for lights or other mandatorily electric devices. So a system that produces a relatively modest amount of electricity and lots of hot water is very effieient overall, especially in cold climates where there isn’t any summer cooling load.

          • heat can be trnsformed to
            cooling.. Absorption chillers

  • Kim

    I am very pleased to learn about Dr Miley and his
    presentation on the 23.

    Andrea Rossi is burdened with plans of Grandeur, and
    needs first to demonstrate the humble 10 kw domestic.

    All else is crap and noise.

    Andrea was investigated by Florida Bureau of Radiation Control.

    They also can not find the factory location.

    Time is running out.

    Very Curious

    Respect
    Kim

    • Roger Bird

      We have all the time in the world. Time is not running out.

  • Good time for rossi e cat yes i’m very happy .

  • Matteo Mancini

    I am a watcher, equally open to hearing this is a great success, or an ingenious scam.

    If it works, then we know how Rossi and the rest of us will benefit.

    But what does Rossi have to gain by scamming? It seems like maximum effort for little or no return. Sure, he may just crave attention . . . but going to these lengths for attention would be almost pathological.

    • Tom Ammons

      If we want to keep this in the realm of science we do not ask about the motivations of those who make claims. If we are concerned about the integrity of a scientific result we ask about whether the claims made can hold up to scrutiny. If there are flaws in the procedure, ex. improperly placed thermocouples, then no further comment about the results of the demonstration should be made. You can’t find a respectable journal which will touch e-cat. This is why.

    • After reading dozens of articles, seeing scores of videos and reading hundreds of posts on chat rooms, the only possible “scam” scenario that makes sense to me is the possibility that Rossi overreached himself and does not have a system that will run for any length of time and that he was trying to buy time and garner money from the sale of exclusive distribution rights, with the hope that he would pull a rabbit out of the hat in time to save his skin. I am turning skeptical.

    • Roger Bird

      There is nothing “almost” about it. If he is doing this for attention, he is ill.

  • Robert Mockan

    Rossi says:

    ” In a 45 MW plant, if Siemens gives us 30% of efficiency, the COP is not 6, is infinite: the energy to drive the resistances will be made by the E-Cat: if we make 45 thermal MWh/h, 15 electric MWh/h will be made, of which 7.5 will be consumed by the plant, 7.5 will be sold, together with 30 thermal MWh/h”

    Rossi is defintiely NOT a power engineer.

    The thermal efficiency (what he inaccurately calls COP) of the plant remains 6, not “infinite”. Using generated electric power to power the reactor is just that- it does not make anything “infinite”. But more relevant from the revenue standpoint, is that you do not “sell” waste heat. You PAY to have it removed.
    There may be cogeneration applications, but if centralized reactors using nickel and hydrogen are built for communities, the heat sink is going to be the atmosphere vie cooling towers, because most communities do not have convenient rivers or lakes.
    (And they can use only so much hot water).
    Even if they did, thermal overload would kill the aquatic life. One does not sell waste heat under those conditions, but charges customers a premium for the environmental impact. And about the electric power available for sale? Knock 30 percent more off that for all the power plant equipment needed for heat exchange coolant flows, especially for the turbine steam egress to low pressure condensate heat exchanger (the only way to obtain a high percentage conversion using steam is providing subatmosphere pressure condensation). The Siemens turbine also can not do 30 percent conversion using saturated steam, there must be superheat applied to the steam. More cost associated with flow control for that, all powered by some of the power plant output. Rossi would be lucky to have 5 MW of net electic power to sell from a 50 MW (not 45 MW) thermal power plant, using a 30% conversion turbine, with thermal efficiency equal 6 for the reactor.

    • sapain

      solar production plants r starting to develop external structures such as greenhouse to use their waste heat to lower production costs.
      waste heat can be applies to desalination plants and their waste heat to greenhouses.
      society still has the throw it away mentality for waste heat but is starting to convert to the value of waste heat.
      lots of tech coming out for low grade heat applications.
      problem is to get into 100% heat capture and useage.

    • There are many places in Europe that can use the waste heat in parts of cities. We may be able to use it in industrial campuses and university campuses and those needs and facilities already exist but use conventional fuels. That would be least expensive in cooler climates that have little or no cooling requirements. There would essentially be no fuel cost just capital costs.

      As far as the COP goes he is right, it is infinite when you draw the boundary of the system to include the steam turbine and electrical generator.

      • Robert Mockan

        True about redrawing the boundaries. But if we do that why not just redraw them to include the universe, then everything is infinite (at least until the universe ends?).

  • sven

    I’m not sure what to think. Seems with the progress reported Rossi will have a LENR moon rocket commercially available before we have a decent test results for the effect it self. This could be a) meaning that Rossi is trying to cash out as fast as possible in all types of energy productions before the competition gets too hard or b) the crowd is simply continuously demanding a new fairytale and is being served well by Rossi. In that case, I can’t still figure out his motive.

    • The same worry is also starting to nag me.

    • Robert Mockan

      Hey, I’ll take the moon rocket any day. I have no pressing need for more hot water.

  • sparks

    Folks, there was a bombshell report on yesterday’s posting (March 9), in the form of a complaint investigated by the Florida Bureau of Radiation Control (FBRC). A citizen, Gary Wright, revealed the location of Rossi’s company as two condominiums or suites. The FBRC investigated unregulated radiation concerns raised by Mr. Wright. They found nothing. They also interviewed Rossi. The final disposition in the case, dated 9 March, 2012, is that Rossi told them that all manufacturing and factories are overseas.

    So according to the investigative documents there is no e-cat factory in the US. DOESN’T THAT CONTRADICT WHAT ROSSI HAS BEEN TELLING US IN THIS WEBSITE? Hasn’t Rossi been saying they are building a factory in the US, and making “excellent progress” on it?

    The story seems to be unravelling.

    • sven

      Why not simply ask Rossi on his blog?

      Two things are for sure. First, he is absolutely paranoid in protecting his cards and secondly that he has been bending the truth repeatedly during the process. Both could make sense from the business standpoint if he has what he claims, keep us and the competition looking in the opposite way, but could just as well support the fairytale theory. Either way, as long as you don’t put your money into the game, why worry?

    • sparks

      Like most folks here, I’m very interested in new energy forms. The possibility of nearly “free energy” has huge investment implications one way or the other, and that is important as I approach retirement. I’m not worried, just trying to read through the noise and be smart. Not a bad idea, eh?

      Asking Rossi is not a way to gain the information required to qualify the claims he is making. We need an alternate source.

      If Rossi falsified information to the FBRC, he is probably at risk of criminal charges. Even lying about building permits is a misdemeanor. So I am taking this FBRC report seriously.

      • Colin Connaughton

        Just my take. I’ve been looking at this only as a source of amusement. I do have some scientfic background,PhD in Mathematical Physics.

        To anyone thinking of investing in this comedy I advise caution. I honestly think you will lose your money. If you want to lose it, fine. It’s your choice.

        • sparks

          Well said. The most I would do is NOT invest in fossil energy companies if it appeared that a disruptive energy technology (such as e-cat) is coming on the scene. But based on what I have read so far regarding Rossi, I would NEVER in a MILLION years invest in a Rossi venture. My little nest egg has been too hard-earned to piss away on that level of risk!

    • Joe

      Rossi says lots of things and they are not really meant to be analyzed and he don’t intend them to be factual statements.

      Not to fear there are still some in the non-buffoonery branch of science fighting the good fight to achieve controlled fusion, the scientific method always wins out over quackery.

      http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/483133a

      • Check this out: http://www.lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/

        I suspect that these people have a greater likelihood of bringing their fusion scheme to fruition than either Tokamak or Inertial Confinement Fusion. LPP is making fantastic progress especially when you compare it to the very small amount of money they have used to date.

        • Robert Mockan

          Focus fusion was tried early on using heavy hydrogen, and it could not reach the Lawson criterion. The boron fuel needs to run even hotter. The web site does not explain why that fuel would be easier to have sustainable ignition and net power out. In any event controlled fusion has been possible with thermonuclear bombs for decades. There have been designs for fusion bombs with fission bomb igniters detonated in underground chambers to flash generate steam for generators, that would provide the power of conventional nuclear power plants. The designs may be less expensive per gigawatt than conventional nuclear power reactors.

      • Roger Bird

        40 years ago hot fusionists said that over unity was 35 years in the future. Now they say that it is 50 years in the future. I believe them. They are a waste of time.

        • Actually back in the late 60’s when the Russians announced great results from their Tokamaks everyone became excited and physicists went before Congress and touted the Tokamak as being near ready for engineering with the help of a few billions for research into plasma and such. They were lying. The end result is we have spent over 40 billion and have not achieved break even and will have to push that up by almost a factor of 20 to make enough power efficiently to make it maybe worthwhile. The costs of building a reactor will be beyond the expense of any utility and would require the purse of the United States and the size of the reactors would be such that only a half dozen could be built. Talk about being dependent on the grid. Physicists are not necessarily ladies or gentlemen.

          • Joe

            Hey that is 40 Billion NOT spent on some shiny new murder machine to kill foreigners.

            I say they should have spend 40 Billion a year on such research instead of over 50 years. Think of all the resources, man hours and smarts that is invested in creating all manner of shiny rubbish every year.

            Even if it ultimately proves unworkable it would be better to spend 120 Billion in pursuit of fusion that people spending that same amount to buy iphones and ipads like they did.

  • longjohns

    If the source of the heat is truly gamma rays there are other ways of making electricity. For instance, gamma scintillography materials like sodium iodide will convert gamma rays to photons with high efficiency. Concentrated photons could then been converted to electricity with fairly high efficiency directedly. Essentially all solid state.

    • Petrol

      Gamma rays are photons too

  • Robert Mockan

    I’ve been looking at the numbers for 30 percent turbine conversion using low temperature steam, and there seems to be a problem. One can not get enough siperheat into the steam if limited to 260 C to provide 30 percent conversion before the steam condenses. This is not about increasing aerodynamic effciency of the turbine blades, or raising steam pressure, or Carnot limitations (Carnot says it is possible, but engineering says not practical). Fundamentally the steam tables say you can’t do 30 percent conversion at 260 C degrees, using steam, without superheat, before the steam condenses.

    I’d post the equations if WordPress enabled image display of the equation sheets, but otherwise no way to show them.

    Is there any body here who can confrim, or not, that 260 degree C is not hot enough?

    • Robert Mockan

      never mind, I see the error. They are using 3 stage reheat starting at higher pressure than I calculated. Thus 3 turbine stages, with interstage reheating, dropping pressure to almost vacuum conditions from the last stage.
      That would be one expensive turbine system! But just able to get to 30 percent at low temperature.

      • I suspect that 5 psia in the condenser is the lowest you can go. You have to keep the pressure high enough that you don’t drop below the vapor pressure on the suction side of the pumps or else you get cavitation and the pump goes bang!

        • Robert Mockan

          Siemens has no comment on that last stage pump. A steam ejector vacuum pump could pull it low enough but overall efficiency would suffer. IMHO, Rossi should focus funds on raising COP and temperature instead of buying a Siemens turbine. Maybe go with SCO2 design by Infinity Turbines for a lower power demo than using a 50 MW thermal reactor.

  • fredy21

    I would like this to be true and I was a believer last year but now I think Rossi is just another scam trying to make a buck on the expenses of gullible investors.

    • I might believe that too, but he won’t let me invest.

    • alex

      I still believe in this invention. I just think Rossi spends too much time giving lip service. He unveiled details too early. If most people knew how long a new product takes from invention to market, they may not have lost their original allure. The moment I started following Rossi in Feb 2011, I knew I would see anything until 2013. Why is it hard for people to wait.

      It takes 2 or 3 years to make a good movie, but you don’t see the ads until maybe 2-4 months before release. Why? Because people would loose interest. That is exactly what is, and will continue to happen to Rossi.

      Either way, infamy is just as good publicity.

  • NH

    http://www.garywright.com

    I looked at the guys site. The site seems to be filled with religious rhetoric. I think he is trying to force Rossi’s hand like Judas did Christ.
    There is no telling how many of these “incidents” Rossi has had to field over the course of projects and probably is amused.

    Rossi’s factory would not be at his office in Miami Beach. I am glad that he is indesposed of having to expose product prior to manufacture/shipment. He simply does not need to answer any questions from miscellaneous, dodgy, unknown, inquiretors.

    The gentleman filing the complaint appears to feel the need to take things into his own hands and trying to bring attention at best to this story as it unfolds.

    Rossi has an idea, and ideas my friends, are bulletproof.

    • sparks

      Oh wow, I checked out the link; this guy is indeed “out there” a bit.

      I was hoping it was the Gary Wright who used to be in the early ’70s hard rock band Spooky Tooth, later writing and recording the song “Dreamweaver,” which is a big popular hit, and would now be rather apropos, if indeed it turns out that Rossi has been playing that role!

    • I doubt it is the same guy. Google any name and you will probably find at least 3 people. I didn’t see a mention of LENR there, and it was a pretty insane website.

      Maybe if enough whackos send nuclear complaints the agencies involved will not even bother with any serious ones. LENR energy is harmless.

    • alex

      Is that Engrish on that site?

  • sapain

    rossi must b scaring the pv world.
    feb. 17,2012 article- chinese Teir 2 crystaline pv modules dropping to $0.96/w usd.
    global pv output is around 60GW/yr and climbing.

    at this rate all will be puting pv on their property in the next few years.

    if lenr can step through the door, the future will be very bright.

  • Robert Mockan

    Hey, Rossi, start building engines for these and I’ll forgive you being an odd person.
    http://concretesubmarine.com/

  • Robert Mockan

    Some body else mentioned Infinity Turbines. I went and looked. Wow!
    40 percent to 50 percent efficient at 200 degree C to 500 degree C, and in small size (suitable for vehicle power systems?).
    Hey, Rossi, if you would disclose your catalyst, so people can start building their own reactors, you could change the world more easily than trying to do everything yourself.

    • Jack Sprat

      How do you expect him to eat if everyone rolls their own e-cat? He used his last 500k to make the e-cat and should he allowed to make a few hundred billion to provide power for all countries.

      • If a device were capable of changing the world and saving many lives I would be content to give it to the world and be happy that a few schools would be named after me.

        I would not try to do it all myself. I would prove it to the world and get it going.

        I understand the world operates differently, and people are greedy.

        The fact Rossi started with ellin his home and 500 000 cash should put some skeptics at bay, but many think Rossi is a really bad scammer.

  • Bruno

    Electricity today costs something like 10 cents per kw-hr. The value of 7500 kw run 24 hours per day for 365 days is something like $6,570,000. Kind of hard to justify paying $30 million for that.

    • Lu

      From your numbers, payback is less than five years. This would be pretty good.

      From a cash flow perspective at .10c/kW net, this works out to an IRR 21% return over 25 years. But I don’t think .10c/kW is a good number. Should be more like .02c/kW, especially if the E-Cat fulfills its promise.

      I kind of doubt it though. This is more like Rossi is trying to identify someone who has $30M to spend.

      • Roger Bird

        It is clear as a bell that Rossi is singing a different tune. And I don’t like the new tune. It will be nice if he proves that LANR is real, but I greatly prefer the home units and being completely off the grid.

    • Lu

      By the way, there are 4500 E-Cats in this system. If it takes 10 minutes to swap out the cores, it will take someone 18.75 weeks (working 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week) to do this! This is almost a full time job. Talk about a boring job!

  • the snake

    The e-cat could only produce electricity while it is in heat producing mode, when depending on auxiliary electricity, how can it get it from the generator?? In addition there would be requirement of a battery, reducing the efficiency coefficient further.

    Rossi stated that auxiliary energy must be heat, not electricity. Any efficient design would store heat from the e-cat and combine it with an electrical heat pump.

    There are serious doubts that any real physical system has the characteristics as described by Rossi, in particular that after starting up and falling back on heat production it can produce another cycle by heating it up again.

  • I didn’t know FBRC was even trying to locate the factory. As I understand it there was a verbal interview and they went away satisfied and there was no intention on their part to check out things at his factory.

    • sparks

      It states right in the FBRC report that Rossi claimed all manufacturing facilities are overseas.

      • daniel maris

        No,that’s misleading the way you put it as it states that is CURRENTLY the case. Clearly the references to UL imply that Rossi have plans to start up production in the USA.

        You claim he has said he is “building” a factory in the USA. HAve you got a quote for that? I don’t recall that. Wouldn’t he be more likely to just lease a factory? There must be plenty available in the states at the moment following the recession.

        • sparks

          Actually, with Rossi, you can find a quote for just about any point you might want to make (!). Yes, Rossi has several times claimed that the factory is coming along very well, and then folks on this site will ask for pictures or proof, so I’m not the only one hearing this message. But Rossi is able to use his marginal English skills to obscure things quite effectively, then cop to the language barrier any time he is caught in a contradiction.

          Keep in mind, Rossi stated late last year that he would have the mass-production factory in-place and ready to run as of Autumn of 2012, which is getting very close now. Regardless of whether lease or build, there should be a flurry of activity, negotiations, tooling, assembly line testing, hiring, QA processes, permits and licensing, ad infinitum, if the million e-cat assembly line is supposed to be churning out e-cats this fall.

  • atanguy

    A nuclear plant average 1,000MW heat or about 330MW electric
    Since 1/3 of electricity is lost during transport (Joule effect) left about 200MW electric to end users.
    If we take only 5MW electricity to end user from the e-cat plant, we need about 40 of these plants to make the electricity made by the nuclear plant.
    If the cost of Rossi’s plant is M$30 We need 40 plants= 1.2 Billion dollars
    The cost of a 1,000 MW nuclear plant is conservatively estimated to 2.4 billion dollars
    Conclusion: LENR plant’s “Rossi design” is half the price of a nuclear plant
    + No cost of nuclear combustible+ no cost of nuclear waste to get ride of + no cost of Fukushima type of accident: THE DREAM!

    • It’s cheaper than that when fuel costs are included. The cost of disposing of the waste from a nuke is carried by all of us and would cause the price of a nuke to go to the sky if included.

      • The SoCal D

        You are so right! I know multitude of govt officials having made multi-millions to clean-up superfunds!! What a name! & Yes, private contractors too!!

    • Frank

      … so, keep on dreaming and don’t wake up ,otherwise you will have to face the reality !

      • atanguy

        Meaning?
        My point is that it would be a dream to replace the nuclear fission by LENR, and I hope that this dream will come true soon 😉

        • Frank

          You made statements and comparison which implied that the e-cat is reality – that’s why I replied ‘keep on dreaming’.

    • daniel maris

      An article in teh Daily Mail today gives the (hidden) cost of clearing up nuclear waste from our nuclear waste industry as at least £50 billion and probably more like £100billion. Those cost never appear on the nuclear industry accounts. So the real saving is much greater.

  • Hello Ecatworld,
    I was wondering on a similar note,, Prof. Erantha De Mel in his latest book “Optimizing the Infinite Mind” offers a cogent expose of the human mind processes. It explains how to reprogram the thought patterns and thinking styles to obtain the desired results in life; and also it offers a technology for creating change. The book explains very lucidly how patterns of thoughts, emotions, and behavior are created and how we develop habits and mental programs over a period of time. Habits are not formed overnight. When we do the same thing over and over again – over a period of time, we form a habit. Our thoughts are also habits. All of us have the capacity to consider ways to re-program our minds and create new neurological pathways to achieve success.
    Cheerio

    • Brad Arnold

      Change is death. The brain often times forces perceptions into familiar patterns, resulting in a form of schizophrenia. Cognative dissidence, where perceptions disagree with familiar cognative patterns is dismissed with magical thinking and rationalization. What is called for is a ephiphany and a clean break – in my opinion this would be brought about by our leaders coming out and verbalizing the new reality. Unfortunately it is an election season and no leader wants to take the risk of public disapproval. Oh well – they say seeing is believing, but then look at where that got Rossi with his public demonstrations.

  • alex

    I still believe in this invention. I just think Rossi spends too much time giving lip service. He unveiled details too early. If most people knew how long a new product takes from invention to market, they may not have lost their original allure. The moment I started following Rossi in Feb 2011, I knew I would see anything until 2013. Why is it hard for people to wait.

    It takes 2 or 3 years to make a good movie, but you don’t see the ads until maybe 2-4 months before release. Why? Because people would loose interest. That is exactly what is, and will continue to happen to Rossi.

    Either way, infamy is just as good publicity.

  • uncle

    Is there’s a single e-cat working yet? Still no proof just words and sums encreasing.

  • Roger Bird

    The hot air coming out of Rossi’s mouth is free.

    I am not saying that he is a crook. I am saying that the hot air coming out of his mouth does not interest me. I want to see verification, units sold, etc. Enough with the hot air.

  • RobertM

    When will he show a working experiment first? Always making bigger and bigger and bigger, but never proving something small.

  • Frank Foster

    What hapend to Defkalion’s test by independent testers? All I heard about was from the government of Greece. Is there a web sight about them?

    • Alain

      Like any serious corp, silence until official communication.
      You can imagine they are crook, but the seriousness of their technocal answers, their demand for quick tests, give a hint that they have a ground breaking device…

      their last communication was that the test was ok, but will have the result officialy when writen. then the forum get crazy , they says that it was a problem for their enterprise, that from now they will communicate like a serious successful corp, by announces.

      their behavior look like a boss get crazy about the riduculous dicussion on the forum ans ask to close that circus.
      that boss, might be under hard critics of the “serious indemendant tester” who don’t like uncontrolled communication.

      in fact the “consensual elite”, from which the testers are members, that refuse to accept LENR is shocked by those results. the testers are afraid to tell the truth alone and look stupid if they make a mistake (they cannot accept they were wrong with the consensus… they are refusing what their eyes see). first they ask total silence to avoid stupidity in case of mistake.
      second it give them time to hide their past stupidity/delusion a few days more (like a death row prisoner fight for 5 minutes more for lunch).
      finally they will arrange to make a group publication where each tester cover the butt of the others…
      they still beahve as if it is false, despite the results…
      I won’t be surprised that all their body talk will be “it is impossible”, despite the lab results.

      hard to get out of groupthink self-delusion.

      in a few weeks (maybe the testers will delay a little to have time to swallow their hat, and delay the execution) we will have a joint report tha will shake the world.

      • Brad Arnold

        If I am any indication, when I realized that LENR was real, I walked around in a fog for about two weeks. BTW, I am accustom to paradigm changes. I hear others feel the same way when there is an earthquake, because they suddenly realized that the rock-solid assumption they made that the ground under their feet is solid is shattered.

        While I like this “wow” experience, it is disorienting. Man, I even have done LSD. LENR, when it finally hits you, is a real trip.

  • daniel maris

    For anyone feeling a little depressed by recent events, let’s not forget that NASA take LENR v. seriously. See this link:

    http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf

  • abc

    Dear Mr Rossi, Thanks for stringing us along but I think I’d settle for the free milk rather than buying the cow.

  • Hi everyone,
    can you get Mr. Rossi to inform about the progress of the one million domestic units? I mean:
    The ones that he is (not) building in the US based on the Low Energy (Non) Nuclear Reactions?

  • Pingback: Rossi: $30 Million for an Infinite COP Plant Producing 7.5 MW Electrical Power | ColdFusionBlog.net()

  • The theory of the reactor A.Rossi I know! Received a patent for a new energy method. This is steeper than that of A. Rossi. Method of multi-functional! And the chemical reactor and the reactor low-energy nuclear reactions, and the reactor is controlled cold fusion! Who would have bought the patent and know-how? For free, under the contract.

    Теорию реактора А.Росси знаю я! Получен патент на новый энергетический способ. Это круче чем у А. Росси. Способ многофункциональный! И химический реактор, и реактор низкоэнергетической ядерной реакции, и реактор управляемого холодного термоядерного синтеза!!! Кто бы купил патент и ноу-хау? Отдам бесплатно, по контракту.

    • NH

      Would you please clarify this statement?

    • My interpretation is: I have a new theory of the Rossi reactor and received a patent on the method. It produces a greater COP than Rossi’s device. It can be operated in several modes (do you mean low COP self-sustained and higher COP enhanced?) It operates using cold fusion. You may purchase the patent and the know-how. Or you can purchase a lease on the use of the knowledge.

  • Joseph Fine

    As I pointed out recently on JONP, if the efficiency is 30%, than only 13.5 MW of electricity will be produced, and after 7,5 MW is used to sustain the reaction, there will be only 6 MW left for sale or distribution, not 7.5 MW.

    Joseph

    • So what? The bottom line is what is the return on the investment.

  • Kim

    You will have to start building E-cats or
    LENR devices in your garage.

    Its the only way.

    There not done sucking the last drop of oil and gas
    out of the ground.

    Its that simple!

    Respect
    Kim

    • Robert Mockan

      Probably. But there are problems with doing industrial level work in non industrial environments. The home builder is going to have to purchase some of the components ready made. Presently everything needs to be custom made, and there are no standardized designs.

      The other problem is making the fuel. To make it requires equipment that is found usually only in research laboratories.

      Just here so far one needs:

      A machine shop
      Degreasing equipment
      A vacuum system
      Electronic equipment
      Computers
      Reference materials
      Furnace
      Chemical apparatus
      Chemicals

      And the ability to work with same.

      On top of this working with most of this kind of equipment and materials is against the law in most states if done in non industrial environments.

  • sapain

    Heliene Inc. in Sault St. Marie, Ontario has opened up a solar manufacturing plant.
    $10 mill, will produce 87,500 300w panels that will produce around 20MW/yr.
    $30mill = 60MW+/yr.

    1-300w panel around $850. retail, bulk is cheaper.
    4 panels-1200wx5.5hrs/day aver=6.6kwhrs/day stationary. cost $3400 plus gid inverter,batteries etc. will last for 50+yrs., ur children will use the system u buy.
    100% tax write off for home based bussiness.

    photovoltaics is the steam electrical generator, the sun is lenr. the more support we give solar the faster the turn around and the cheaper it gets.

    the more maufacturing plants we can set up the less amount of coal, gas and nuclear plants needed and the less global pollution.

    best we got until lenr shows up.

    • Scott H

      Your solar output is a maximum. Your luck if you get 30% of that. E-Cats would be a reliable base load.

      • sapain

        have u used solar energy. i do, 100%

        • dragon

          You are either rich or got so much sun that it is actual good for your case. Solar is not feasible for everybody. Lots of buildings can’t use solar. LENR is millions times better and more reliable. Works at night also.

          • Brad Arnold

            Minnesota has one of the lowest solar indexes in the US. We also have very cold nights. To compare solar to LENR is like comparing a conventional bomb with a nuclear one. You’d have to be nuts to prefer solar or wind to LENR.

  • NH

    Dear Mr. Rossi,
    Have the new patents for the domestic reactor been filed with the Italian Patent and Trademark Office?
    Good luck,
    Matthew

    Andrea Rossi
    March 9th, 2012 at 9:41 AM
    Dear Matthew:
    Patents pending are like divisions of an army in movement: the less the enemy knows of them, the better.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • NH

    Andrea Rossi
    March 11th, 2012 at 3:35 PM

    Dear Claud:
    There is not “my version” , there is only one version of the Florida Bureau inspection at Leonardo Corporation: We have been very glad to receive their visit and we have explained to them all we had to. We agreed wuth them that we will keep they informed of all our developments and also explained to them that we doi not use radioactive materials and do not produce radioactive materials. The persons we talked with are very prepared and expert and I have been honoured to deal with them. What we said beyond this is confidential and I have nothing to add at all. I give no information at all regarding our factory, as I always said, until our production will be officially announced. I can say, and I am delighted to say this, that the Officers of the Florida State I have been contacted from are glad that we are making jobs in Florida. Of course they will have free access to us in our Florida site, also to verify that we do not use radioactive material and we do not produce radioactive material and, also , we agreed that we will not sell in the USA the domestic E-Cats before the due certification, that will certify that no radiations are emitted from the E-Cats outside the body of the E-Cats while they are working.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Jimr

    Sapain, I don’t under stand your math. $10,000,000 will supply 87,500 panels that retail for $850?

    • sapain

      300w panel retails at $850.
      5-10 panels, $800/panel.
      dealer price (wholesale bulk) is probably $600/panel.
      manufacturing plant cost $10mill to set up and is producing 87,500 panels per yr.

      i`m thinking about ordering 5-300w panels, cost will be $4000. tax write off= 0 cost.

      • Innocent

        sapain,
        The problem with a tax write off is that means that other people pay for it, it still costs $4,000.00. Add to this the fact that you are not including the inverter ( which costs a third of the installation, or the cost of install ( most cities regulate this ) add onto it the cost of an electrician to hook it up, the fact that you average 8 hours of ‘sun’ on a south facing roof, etc. You find out that your cost to benefit is much lower than you think again understanding that ‘someone’ is paying for it.

        Have nothing against solar but it is just too expensive and unreliable a system to use for anything other than off the grid solutions, which it does quite well.

        If it were ‘really’ cheap, and ‘really’ reliable, EVERYONE would have switched to it. But solar just does not solve the REAL issues with power generation.

  • Peswiki has dropped their rating of Rossi due to
    statements in the Florida compalaint.

    I would be wary to draw a conclusion on this because the accusation itself is clearly from
    someone who thinks cold fusion is fission and
    has poor judgement or is no so trithful not to know this basic fact before filing complaints.

    Also as far as the investigator statement goes it is so easy to take a generalized statement out of context. The report is not a direct quote but a short summary and definitly not a scientific paper.

    I have been disappointed in some of the statements Rossi has made but some of the reporting has been reading every sentence with speculative out of context dual meaning accusation.

    He and hs accusers have character flaws but the
    bottom line is everyone wants to see his product
    and there is much stronger evidence for than there is against.

    It’s not a perfect measureable world with the dynamic of human interaction.

    Some of the statements are contradictory and we should have known more by now about things like the who the second purchaser is and if the order for the next dozen 1 MW is being filled but we in the public do not face the problems of running this business.

    Unfortuately all we can do is hope he is basically on the course and ont the time frame set upon toward the end of last year. We would not have to hope if something like one of these secret customers took delivery and disclosed the fact by
    now as was expected. That would boost the credibility of his product and cold fusion enormously. So we have to patiently wait but for how long.

    • Larry Michael

      There is NO evidence that the E-Cat is anything more than a very poorly constructed water heater. Plenty of evidence that it does not produce more heat than generated by electrical resistance. All we have in support of Rossi is “Rossi says”.

      Get real.

  • Brad Arnold

    Power density of typical engine types
    combustion gas turbine 2.9 kg/kw
    medium speed diesel 10 kg/kw
    nuclear gas turbine (including shielding) 15 kg/kw
    nuclear steam plant (including shielding) 54 kg/kw
    Rossi LENR generator 4 kg/kw

    http://www.atomicengines.com/Ship_paper.html

    http://www.militaryfactory.com/conversioncalculators/weight-tons-to-kilograms.asp

    http://www.unitconversion.org/power/megawatts-to-kilowatts-conversion.html

    200 tonnes divided by 45 megawatts is about 180,000 kilograms divided by 45000 kilowatts (I always got marked down in math class when I didn’t show my work on the test, but just wrote down the answer).

    • Brad Arnold

      ‘Furthermore, a nuclear plant averages about 1,000 megawatts of heat, the heat generated by about 22 Rossi E-Cat plants. The cost of a 1,000 megawatt nuclear plant is conservatively estimated to 2.4 billion dollars, while the cost of 22 Rossi E-Cat plants (at about 30 million dollars each) is about 660 million dollars – a little more than a third of the price! With no cost for nuclear fuel, no cost to clean up the nuclear waste and get rid of the nuclear waste, and no cost of Fukushima type of accident!!’

      • sapain

        yes, it`s amazing why nuclear and coal power plants r built with today`s solar tech.
        $3.2 bill solar manufacturing plant will produce 6.4GW/yr, in 10 yrs it will be producing 64GW/yr, 20yrs-128GWs.

        out of the two evils, coal should be knocked out first, it dumps alot of radioactive material (uraninium and thorium) as well as so2,no2,co2 into the atmosphere.
        $3.2 bill would create one massive tidal power plant that would help offset night time energy demand for solar.

      • Joe

        Keep in mind a nuclear plant or even a coal plant is know to be a real thing while the e-cat is so far just a twinkle in a garbage man’s eye.

      • Might want to add to that the cost of the building site and generators.

        The cost and risk to the environment and human health care and the costs for government cleanup would be nearly eliminated.

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