E-Cat Apps? Rossi Open to Allowing 3rd Party Addons to the E-Cat’s Heat

A question posted on Andrea Rossi’s Journal of Nuclear Physics site raises an interesting question. Jim Rice asks:

Regarding all the different turbines, etc. proposed to utilize the heat from an e-cat; it seems to me that your task should simply be to provide the best heat module possible for sale, and allow others to add electricity, heat pumps, etc., rather than trying yourself to become experts in turbine, electricity generation, and other technologies.

You may want to allow others to add value by adding other capabilities to the e-cat, similar to Apple’s strategy of producing iPhones and allowing others to create the applications. The more people that can create add-ons to your heat module, the more valuable it will become.

Rossi’s answer:

Good point, we could also leave to others the task to apply electric generators and other optionals, like air conditioners, but in this phase we have to do it, to help the basic technology. I think in future it will go the way you say, as it is already for the heaters: the E-Cat has not been designed to compete with the existing heaters, but to be applied to all the existing heaters.You are right, anyway.

It would make sense that once working E-Cat units are on the market that Leonardo Corp. would provide additional options. After all they have the luxury of being the only people who know the details of the E-Cat design, and they can work at the moment without competition in this area. I expect that once working E-Cats come on the market, especially the small cheaper 10 kW versions, that there will be plenty of ingenious people who will try to find ways to use these units in ways that they were not initially designed for — perhaps rigging up these units to work as clothes dryers, patio heaters, pool heaters, etc.

Opening up the E-Cat for third party addons could be a smart move for Leonardo as it would stimulate the creative juices of inventors and engineers who have skills and talents beyond those of Rossi and his associates, and could help very much to speed up the proliferation of LENR technology while at the same time establishing the E-Cat as an LENR industry standard. In addition, Leonardo’s competitive position would be greatly strengthened if the E-Cat were indeed sold at the lowest possible price.

  • daniel maris

    Yawn – why should we listen to Rossi speculate in this vague fashion when he doesn’t provide the most basic information about the certification process; his proposed factory locations; contacts at Siemens etc. Why has this flamboyant publicist gone all coy?

    It’s not encouraging to those who would like to support him and if he continues like that then, as with Defkalion, the best thing to do is to “switch off” and just wait and see if he EVER comes up with anything…now he’s talking about the E cat heater being revealed as late as August 2013 IF and only IF the certifications go through.

    Did he not get certification for his sale of the 1 MW plant? Perhaps someone in Italy should complain to the equivalent of the Florida Bureau of Radiation Control about that failure. We might then learn something about that alleged sale.

    • sparks

      Daniel, it appears that the impossible has happened, as we seem to be almost on the same page these days! The lack of realism in Rossi’s aggressive and extremely optimistic-sounding timelines (such as mass production factory ready by Autumn, 2012) is what set off my BS meter from the start. While LENR research has been doing great things, Rossi has seemed too far ahead of the pack to be credible. With the short timeline he has provided himself, he will need to put up or shut up sooner rather than later.

      • daniel maris

        We may be ending up in the same territory having come by different routes. I didn’t – and don’t – think the timetable is impossible, but the lack of candour on key issues is ringing alarm bells at this stage for me.

        I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Rossi makes good on his promises but I am not going to invest too much time on him as he isn’t engaging with his potential supporters in any but the most superficial of ways.

        • sparks

          And if all that which is e-cat comes to pass I will be pleasantly surprised too, my friend. Thanks.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    This 2 year old email (that I’ve never seen before) by Francesco Piantelli to Krivit is way more interesting: it’s damning to Rossi (ethics, etc), but also gives him credibility, in the sense that this implies he does probably have something.


    • jack

      Thanks for the find Ivan. I am wondering if Piantelly(Nichenergy) has got anything usable.

      Here is some more info: http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/roy-virgilio-releases-more-details-on-piantelli-research/

    • Stephen

      My clear impression is that AR digged into something smart and almost working and built a clever scam on top of it… he will just delay forever and give no occasion to prove or disprove his machine is really working.

      He is very clever… exploiting an existing technology, exploit the authority of observers, the authority of big companies, exploit the hopes of peolple (like of many of you guys here…), etc… he is great, in a way.

      Pls note: this is my impression. I cannot be sure… but this is mostly because of AR behavior, talking and talking, delaying and delaying, always avoiding a final verification… This fits perfectly the scammer. Again, in my humble opinion.

    • Stephen

      Pls let me underline a very good point rised by Piantelli. I directly quote from one of his translated mails:


      AR… savior or doomer? I bet for the second one, guys…

      • Stephen

        wooops.. bloody HTMl tags…

        here is the quote:

        “It remains alone a fact: this new buffalo will not do other than to worsen the credibility of the anomalous phenomenon and will bring back even more difficult the path for LENR to arrive. We really didn’t need this.”

        “buffalo” is a bad translation… it is supposed to be “lie”, “scam”, “trick”… something like that…

        • By buffalo, perhaps he was referring to something like a bull in a china shop.

          • Stephen

            I have italian friends… “bufala”, literally “buffalo”, is a slang standing for “bull$#it”… something untrue, a joke, etc…

  • Brad Arnold

    Taken to it’s logical conclusion, Rossi ought to license out his “secret Italian sauce” that tricks out the LENR exothermic reaction to a COP over 6.

    Instead, Rossi has chosen to pursue a strategy of building a manufacturing company from the ground up, so it is logical that he would also own the peripherals business too.

    I get the feeling Rossi is more comfortable as an engineer and an entrepreneur (i.e. a Leonardo, or a Edison), rather than a spokesperson or a financier.

    Besides, this whole discussion is academic, since once successful commercialization has occurred you will see an explosion of R&D into LENR which will completely overwhelm Rossi or Defkalion’s ability to compete in the long run.

    • Bruno

      Still a believer, Brad?

  • Martin

    3rd Party Addons? WTF? There’s not even a first party really.

    • abc


    • Stephen

      Indeed… this guy is amazing, please call the ambulance…

    • Frank

      Next we will find some speculation here about the color of the e-cat casing.
      “Will it from the first day on be available in white color, or just in black?”

      • Omega Z

        I’m betting Blue.

  • Roger Bird

    More hot air.

    • sparks

      … and not from fusion.

  • sapain

    rossi just has to step up to the public platform in broad daylight and show the world.
    if he proves to the world he has a running lenr engine, he would get unlimited financial, mental and spiritual support. he would get billions over night. there r 6 billion people who would give him instant support.
    maybe rossi`s true intent is to expose the truth that lenr is real and help create a firestorm.

    what if rossi doesn`t have a working lenr engine but by his actions he pushes others to break the lenr barrier quicker and succeeds, would he b a fraud.

    rossi is running around and giving alot of public exposure to lenr by way of ecat.
    it is now openingly known that lenr has been replicated by many, using many methods. just has to be scaled up.
    quite a few educational institutes state that lenr is taught.
    lenr is getting more financial support.
    more indiduals r stepping out of the closet and into the public spotlight.
    lenr needs public acknowlegement and support.

    rossi say, i got a working lenr engine, dgt jumps up, me too. dr miley and others say got lenr and getting closer to creating an enegine. people wonder and dream and most of all QUESTION lenr. by questioning, the truth comes out by searching for the truth.
    i have read alot of blogs and their comments recently about rossi and ecat, but most of all i c the exposure lenr is getting.
    lenr was a quiet thought until rossi started yelling a yr ago.

    • Joe

      Most people are not interested in creating firestorms. However they are usually only interested in creating patents and the eventual moneystorm that follows.

      • sapain

        media loves creating firestorms.
        politicians main tool is a firestorm of thought.
        ows is a firestorm, arab spring another.
        people who can`t, but know, will create a firestorm to help those that can.

  • What the man needs is third party independent testers not add-ons.

    I respect Defkalion 100x more than I do Rossi. When it was time to put up or shut up they shut up. Rossi just keeps on going.

    • Jim

      Rossi has plenty of time to make ever grander plans and announcements about how much more his ecat will be able to produce sometime in the not too far distant future.
      Meanwhile, the 1 MW ‘sold’ last October sits in Italy, the home models delivery date stretches from Aug 2012 into 2013 and a single operating unit has yet to be definitively demonstrated producing even 1 KW for an extended period.
      If the design and production of the 10 KW is finalized and performed as advertized I believe Rossi would have no risk in completing a conving demonstration, The absorption rate of a functioning unit by the world would far exceed anything Rossi could conceivable create in his lifetime.
      Just look at the appliance industry and the markets that continue to absorb millions of units.
      It’s time to move beyond the mysticism, smoke and curtains – if only Rossi wasn’t so much like the great wizard of Oz, I’d be a lot more optimistic that the energy revolution is imminent,

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  • Daniel M. Basso

    What doesn’t make any sense to me is why the supposed device uses electrical energy to heat up the reactor every some hours, instead of chaining the output of some reactors in a phased-locked manner. The control of this loop wouldn’t be hard to make, and the energy consumption would be reduced drastically. Even if a ten-fold increase in the number of reactors (and price) would be needed, the device would be way more viable to practically everybody.

    • Kim

      A prove of concept, simple device is
      needed to solidify the concept to the
      psyche of the American People.

      Then the dam will burst.


    • Frank

      Actually it’s even surprising that allegedly you need to heat-up the reactor, but only a several hundred degrees.
      For hot fusion you need millions of degrees temperature to overcome the coulomb barrier. – So a several hundred degrees more or less doesn’t matter anything for hot fusion.

      Why do a several hundred degrees matter for cold fusion then? What’s the theory for cold fusion which explains why you need to heat up your reactive materials, but only insignificant (when you think in scales which matters for nuclear reactions)?

      Why shouldn’t the LENR reaction not start without any external energy applied?
      Of course, a theory/device which doesn’t need any external (electrical) power supply would make it more difficult to run a scam 😉

    • NH

      If I understand correctly, the start-up circuit that generates the heat to the reactor core is modulated, either electromagnetically or of an RF frequency. As the reaction frequency escalates the heating within the core, reaction frequency changes adding a complexity to startup that is not as extreme at or near the operational temperature. Probably shifts the harmonics of the reaction frequency within the core. As operational temperature is reached, the core almost stabilizes and has to be “tickled” with the RF startup circuit to maintain the reaction. Since the startup takes electrical power, this mode of operational startup (through feedback) will not be available on early Ecat I’s. As TE’s become accesseable through specific design, the Ecat II will have electrical generation, startup without power connection (however a battery and charger integrated with the unit)will then be obtainable. The efficiency’s will improve over time as devices are created for the Ecat II.
      My 2 cents worth…

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  • John

    Aspects of this story have a basis in reality. Others I’m afraid do not. This concept of a robotised factory to produce one million units of a device is pure fantasy. I do not understand the motivations but I am certain a factory of this size would easily have been located long ago if it were real. Contractors need to fit it out. Specialist equipment needs installing. People talk whether under confidentiality agreements or not. People would have noticed something for certain just the same way as the media know when a new Iphone or Ipad is being released through the chain of component suppliers. There are always leaks. It’s easy to say AR is a fraud or that this is part of some grand strategy of ‘wheels within wheels’ which only a genius like Rosssi could mastermind. Meanwhile tiny scraps of information go round and round to be regurgitated on this and other sites to give hope to the great unwashed. If you need hope buy a lottery ticket. Your odds are just as good.

    • Kim

      I agree, this factory would have to be
      easy to find at this point.


    • sparks

      Yes, agree completely. i’ve been saying the same thing for four months now. Add to your arguments: permit processes, hiring, training, robot purchase and programming, robotized factory test runs, feedstock negotiations, preparations for shipping and receiving 50 million pounds per year of materials, etc. etc.

    • NH

      The factory would not have to be large, the Ecat itself is the size of a large PC (the home unit), with the core a little larger than a heating element made of pipe pieces, and all could be easily fit within a 4000 sq ft. area for this type of fabrication. The location is not easily distinguished in view of the significance of the product and could be easily disguised as any other type of business that needs production space. The specific needs and tools for the production can be staged at other facilities in preparation for fitting into the production area. The design is simple enough and the “factory” would have the same general components as a Hot Water Heater Assembly plant but for much smaller components. NOT easy to find and strategized to not be distinguishable, or to be tracked among thousands of other small businesses within industrial parks. Remember that all of this is planned to prevent industrial espionage which means all particiapants are coached and well-informed to be private. Lives would be at stake. Rossi will not go there and has others to manage these project portions. Its simply the way it has to be.

  • Phil

    If the e-cat produces excess power and if you apply external power to the e-cat to get it going why cant you then feed back some of the heat to keep it running instead of adding more external power?

    • NH

      Questions like these can typically be gleaned from the FAQ at the ECAT site:

  • clovis

    Come on guys, have you been asleep. eye wittness saw the Greek dekaferon demo, not spelled right, the navy tested and said it works, army corp of engineers tested and found it too work, why are you still saying you just need to hear or see a certifiable demo, there are three, if you don’t believe it yet , –smile just wait things are moving fast, seem like i hear more every day, about this grand machine,

    • What is your source? I have not heard any reports from anybody about Defkalion tests except one “they liked it” statement from Defkalion.

    • Stephen

      wake up, it’s all fake

    • Paul Richards

      “….why are you still saying you …. ? – clovis
      Because they are part of the Neo Liberal energy cartel who still haven’t given us clean energy in over hundred years of opportunity. Using social media to spin discontent using the same tactics agencies promoting the tobacco industry have for fifty years. LENR has had to fight many battles, this is just another along the way before we have new infrastructure. We should be more concerned the neo liberals don’t hijack the technology and force us on to the wasteful grid systems of today.

      • jack

        OMG Paul, you forgot to mention the elite reptilian hybrids behind the cartels determined to eradicate human race by forcing us to use fossil fuels.
        But don’t worry the salvation is near. Messias Rossi will save all e-cat believers and take them to Venus in his e-cat powered spaceship. I’ve been told Venusian women are very fond of human males.

      • I must be a wonderful thing to have a mind that so neatly wraps up all bad events and the cause of those circumstances and casts their evil into the body of some group that you can then berate and blame. In your case the Neo Liberals suffice. Your manner of thinking is bigoted. It doesn’t matter how such a trick is pulled off and who is blamed but the same simplistic style of thinking falls under the same rubic.

        • Paul Richards

          Is that the best you both have got? Vague references to UFOs and denial of of the Pozzi scheme called “the corporation”. Neo Liberal is the closest label to hand, when the level of thought here sees the Blue SDI value as the only perspective.

    • sapain

      there is one thing out there that is a definite right now, that`s solar.
      with today`s prices it`s cheap and getting cheaper by the month. actually free if u use ur income tax to pay for it.
      i`m going to mount a 300w panel on an electric trike that has a 350w motor. the mounting system will consist of 4 variable lenght shafts with a ball socket connecting the shafts to the panel to allow orientation to the sun. i may only go 30km/hr but it will extend running time from one hr to many. no insurance costs, no high maintence costs and free feul costs. as used for bussiness, the whole system is a 100% tax write off. the hardest part is the up front money but u`ll get it back.
      support the hard working individuals who r helping the planet now, not some political lacky getting rich off ur income tax.
      when not in use, i can plug the unit into the outside socket and use it for house power.
      u can b a slave to the system or make the system work for u.
      lenr is a possibility right now, solar is a definite. use it to ur advantage and help the planet go green.

    • NH


      The point is that all these reports on people that “witness” are second-hand. For example:

      You are standing outside of a closed room (no windows). I go into the room, close the door, come back out, close the door, and tell you that there is an elephant in the room. You then run-out and report to everyone that there is an elephant in the closed room.

      Everyone else wants to see too. They want to know if it is true.

      Now I conspire with others (because they are going to get benefits from helping me) to tell others (like yourself) that there is indeed an elephant in that room and claim to have seen it too. And so it goes…….

      Now everyone has been told or claims to have seen the elephant inthe room so it must be true?

      Crude but effective story.

  • Alexvs

    This whole story is a fraud. This becames more and more evident each time Mr. Rossi produces announcements and/or responses to questions. As I said many threads/ posts ago, the vilest of this E-Cat matter is not it being false but hurting the confidence and good faith of the so called believers.
    Mr. Rossi is bemocking them openly.

    • john E


      • NH

        Prove it is fraud.
        If you think this is a fraud why are your following or commenting?

        • Filip

          If only believers comment on this site, than there’s no debat left, duh
          So what are you going to use the Ecat for? Oh, I will use it to heat up my swimmingpool, and you? Well, I am going to make myself a jacuzzi…

          • NH

            You make a blanket statement, I ask for your proof. Your response is that “if only believers comment on this site, then there’s no debat left.” So your impetus is to debate but your comment is a blanket statement with no provision of proof or provision for debate. Then you change the topic to that of “use for the Ecat”. The Ecat would be used for heating and hot water.
            Perhaps you would make more sense if you considered and delivered your reasons or “proof” to back up your statment.

    • Sojourner Soo

      Actually, Rossi “bemocks” people like you openly. I’m willing to bet, too, that people like you will be among the first to buy an E-Cat this winter. Idiots.

      • NH

        What are you trying to accomplish by insulting people? What redeeming value are you trying to contribute?

  • Filip

    votes: 4304

    2132 = 49,5% !less than 50%
    926 = 21,5%
    797 = 18,5%
    343 = 8%
    106 = 2,5%

    • Filip

      Unless AR gives us more, I think everything is said.
      It’s always the same comment, ‘we’ are repeting our selfs.
      In one of the previous comments someone told to watch the video where the steam was coming out of a tube al of a sudden and then watch AR’s face in the other room, the expression of Rossi face spoke for itself, he has a second agenda

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  • john E

    What I can’t figure out is why so many people who are so sure the E-cat is a scam and Rossi is a fraud spend so much time posting on this site. Over and over.

    Why give it any attention at all?

    • NH

      1) There are some here that are curious.
      2) There are some here that thrive from debate, arguement and bias, they feed their egos with contentious subjects such as this.
      3) Then there are those that have an agenda, probably hired to bias others that are monitoring any news that emerges. This may be in favor of the device and it’s creator because it diverts the attention of those that are capable of premptive actions from acting at all, they think its not worthy of time or effort to act. If you really had something, you would want to be left alone to develop the product without interruptions requiring you to “feed the crowd”.
      4) Then there are the other..the ignorant..one-line comments offering negatory contributions with no redeeming value except for the sneer on their face that they seem to feel a need to share.

      • Kim

        Oil mentality is Death.

        Free Energy is Life.


      • Joe

        #3 Is a completely irrational fear cold fusion types have. CF is not on the radar of main stream people and they consider everything CF to be fantasy kookoo land so would never spend 1 cent to hiring anyone to suppress it. Given the nutty logic of CF devotees they just might spend money to “feed the crowd” to divert big oil/science even though they are not interested.

        I’m all but convinced the e-cat has no special efficiency like all Rossi’s previous products but i check the news everyday hoping I’m 100% wrong. Who wouldn’t want it to be true? but most don’t let desire cloud their judgement. People may have faith when it comes to religion but that has no place in science only empirical evidence will convince.

        • Rockyspoon

          And yet I saw no facts in your response whatsoever–while facts are the hallmark of science. You’ve just negated your own opinion.

          But like you, Joe–I’m waiting for more facts.

    • Filip

      On this site people are not only talking about Rossi but also about LENR in general.’They’ don’t give attention to Rossi in the first place but to LENR, most of them, just like me, are skeptical but not non-believers, there is a big difference. It’s hard to denie there’s some smoke hanging around Rossi. He is acting very weird and that’s an understatement.