Cold Fusion in Italian High School

A new and very interesting report is coming again out of Italy. The Repubblica Roma web site is reporting about a project carried out by teachers and students at the Leopoldo Pirelli industrial high school in Rome in which students have built cold fusion cells which according to one of the instructors involved have achieved excess heat levels of 400 per cent. A slide show of the devices can be seen here.

Following this report, one of the instructors involved with the project, Ugo Abundo, emailed Daniele Passerini of the 22passi blog and provided more information. Abundo said that the cells used ‘free nanopowders’ in the cathode which they have patented. Abundo says that in a few days video and technical details will be made available (presumably online). It also appears that Passerini will be working to help publicize the project.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    “Ugo Abundo” got translated into “Hugh Abundo” for some reason.

    By the way, mr. Abundo also mentioned that they are open to independent validation and three universities have already contacted them for this since the news broke the other day.

    It will be interesting to see how this will develop over the next few weeks.

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  • Rushing to file patents means that you’re doing business of one form or another, not science.

    It’s a chemical reaction – or an experimental error, or just a big fat attention- and funding-whoring lie – until proven otherwise. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and a few pictures of beakers and charts doesn’t constitute it.

    • Stephen T.

      What a nice thing to say about the efforts of the high school students! You’re a charmer!

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      They issued a patent application by the name of their high school (which is a public/state school) so that the innovations introduced in their reactors cannot be claimed by individuals or entities interested only in personal gains.

    • Roger Bird

      Is Rogerborg unaware of all of the replicators:

      Or is he just another pathological lying skeptic who won’t look at the evidence.

    • jacob

      rogerborg you seem to be another casualty
      of text bock science ,basing your opinion
      on what you know is not cool since what you know
      is now out dated.

      • dragon

        People, nothing is what they “mainstream science” say it is…

        Check this YouTube video:
        The Secret History of Dinosaurs

        After this… everything is possible. 🙂

  • alainS

    Since that I have been at the Siena conference, I realize that it is not that easy to make energy measurement when the output is a few mW , or even W, made by well equipped labs and respected scientists. So I would be very surprised that this claim corresponds to a real CF effect.

  • ItaliansDoItLENR

    I would let you know this e-petition on the UK Govt website to put pressure on Govt to investigate e-cat capabilities.

    • I signed it some time ago, but the UK gov is almost totally immune to e-petitions or any other form of public input, unless these align with whatever they have already decided.

  • Francesco

    @Rogerborg: the article is correct but unfortunately not complete, probably because of the problems given by the translation from italian to english. The powder cathod has been patented in the name of the University (not in the name of professor Abundo) in order to let them disclose ALL the informations without the risk that somebody will patent the system, make money with their discovery and forbid them to carry on with the development.
    With regards to the skeptics or pseudo-skeptics they will lend the reactor to anybody asking for it or give the license to build it, so that they can make all the measurements and tests they want.
    In the next hous and days they will put ALL the informations at anybody’s disposal.
    I think that Professor Abundo, his collegues and students could not be more correct, wise and open to any test.
    Do you agree with me? 🙂

    • Dear Francesco,

      What are the essential features of their set up? Is is straight plasma electrolysis? Or are they using nanopowders?

      Where can I find the experimental details?

  • Ulf Rosén

    Fantastic. WELL DONE
    Tousends of eingeneers around the world are trying,and spending a lot of money and time to get a reaktion.
    God Luck from SWEDEN

  • PersonFromPorlock

    This may or may not be CF, but the experimenters’ openness to examination could give ‘certain persons’ a lesson. Or maybe I should say apparent openness, the history of the field being what it is.

    As always, we shall see.

    • If they have an ‘agenda’ beyond helping the tech to spread and preventing monopolistic claims, it is far from clear. I think we are beginning to see something of incredible significance – that this technology is ‘accessible’ to almost anyone with basic engineering competence – something akin to what the 18th and 19th century experimenters were doing with electricity and magnetism, using a mixture of intuition, partial knowledge, and crude and simple apparatus made from mahogany, copper, glass and iron.

      This bunch of students and their teacher have gone public and received some media attention, but how many others are now quietly playing in their garages and occasionally melting holes in the concrete floors? Many people have used the phrase ‘putting the genie back in the bottle’ in connection with CF (or whatever) and it seems that this is indeed looking like an increasingly difficult task.

      However, availability of nano-nickel appears to be the point of maximum vulnerability, and if it was decided at some level to make this feedstock unavailable, that could pretty much end backyard CF science. All it would take would be one explosion or other mishap (real or constructed) that could be pinned on such experiments, and the great god ‘safety’ would be invoked to make it a controlled material. Someone needs to publish a method for making nano-nickel from nickel salt solutions as a matter of urgency.

      • Reading the reports with a bit more care, I can see that I’m getting a bit ‘previous’ in assuming that the nano powder they used is nickel – but it is a fair bet that it is the major constituent at the very least.

        • artefact

          I just read ab bit about the production of nano sized particles. If there is no need for a very good grade of purity it seems to be makeble for some good engineers.

          • Do you have a link for that please?

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  • Roger Bird

    This will add to the level of embarrassment for the hot fusionists, but not until it is proven without a doubt and units are being sold.

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  • Notice the cute girl in the picture? NASA started this trend. Never mind that everybody behind the science is a white or asian man (or in this case boy). A woman or a black man must be used to present the technology to the general public.

    • linda

      This is Italy, and these are Italians we are talking about. 🙂

      • Maybe the excess heat level is caused by proximity of high school chemistry teacher to that slightly yummy girl in the title pic? A new form of LENR I’ll say.

        • Bob

          That’s a high school girl you sick pedo pervert!

          • GreenWin

            Pretty well shut this clown up.

        • dandelion

          CP, you do sound like a professional in the field of disinformation.
          I guess the internets are too open minded for the likes of your masters.

          • A classic attempt at diversion into trivia – hallmark of a pro shill.

  • Karl

    It’s amusing to see so much of the “official forbidden fruits” of ColdFusion/LENR, are coming out of the Italian labs. I think the Italians can be really proud of their great scientists and innovators in the past and today. Perhaps their ability has something to do with the individualistic mentality where humans take their own tracks regardless of any “official truths” or power. On the contrary, regardless of the awarded high number of Nobel prices in the last 50 years, for example the situation in US is shameful in regard to how patents is handled in this field.

    • Don’t jump the gun. “Abundo says that in a few days” could mean 30-60-90 days or it could mean 1000 days. As with all things LENR future tense is used for announcements.

  • GreenWin

    In 1938 Italian born Enrico Fermi won the Nobel Prize for his work on the world’ first nuclear “Neutronic” reactor. He also named the odd particle that has variable mass and MAY travel at super luminal speeds – the “neutrino.”

    Now Italy hosts dozens of ground breaking LENR physicists and clearly leads the planet in development of the Fleischmann Pons effect. Wonderful to see high school students learning how to recreate this effect in their own habitat. This confirms the impossibility of suppressing this technology.

    If commercial manufacturers somehow don’t bring products to market (a stretch) – home brew ecats and LENR heaters will pop up all over the net. Lest we forget, a successful business started in a garage in California sold its products exclusively through a mail order “Home Brew Club.” It’s name is Apple Computers.

    Congratulazioni studenti Italiani! Potrai cambiare il mondo!

  • hempenearth

    In the best traditions of Galvani and Volta. Well done to all at Pirelli!

  • Barry

    I guess they never read John R. Huizenga’s book ( Cold Fusion: The Scientific Fiasco of the Century) which would inform them what they did can’t be done. Hopefully it was never translated into Italian. J.R.H. played a major role in throwing a wet blanket on Fleischmann and Pons findings way back when. Thank you John Huizenga for slowing down the advancement of LENR.
    A more sincere and heartfelt thank you to the students and teachers of Leopoldo Pirelli industrial high school. It just goes to show the non-greedy source can be the most effective.
    And thank you Mr. Fleischmann and Mr. Pons.

  • It is true that the devices need not be so complex
    as long as the Osaka University research using nano particles and deturium is followed to bring
    a consistent reaction.

    Also contrary to what many academics and media have been saying for years the concepts are not that difficult to grasp and understand from a logical perspective. I think many of the naysayers have at best just glossed over the information
    and made no real effort to understand cold fusion.

    I hope humanity can learn some lessons by looking at what happened to the dodo bird.

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  • sapain

    lenr using platinium, platinium costs $1800/oz.
    small unit using platinium = gold mine for some.

    lenr using palladium, palladium costs $650/oz.
    small units using palladium = gold mine for some.

    massive use will drive up metal price.
    metal will cause homes to become potential targets.

    lenr using nickel, perment consumption/depletion of nickel
    lenr will still enforce energy dependance, no free energy, controlled market.

    why do people still want to buy fuel when it`s free.

    • admin

      Hi sapain,

      We have heard a lot of your thoughts about solar power over recent months. This site is primarily for discusion of LENR/Cold Fusion topics. I don’t mind people discussing other technologies from time to time, but continual posts about solar power are a bit off topic on this site.


      Frank (admin)

      • sapain

        F&P claimed to produce fusion at low temp.
        F&P took a royal s–t kicking.
        F&P crawled into a hole and disaapeared.


        why didn`t F&P go to time square with their device and show the world. i would have, i would have been so pissed at being called a scam. they knew they were going to make 0 $. the wright brothers did, they got so pissed they went to france and showed the world. telsa got so pissed, he took a gas tube and walked into a high voltage field, and showed the world.
        i asked myself why would they have this great device and ability and then disappear, leaving humanity to the corruption of the world. pretty decent thing to do.
        then i realized that the solar cell at 20% effeciency, was in it`s infancy, and a very large threat to the power brokers. the aver, person has the ability to not buy their energy and/or sell to them. that`s a switch.
        solar cell and the alternatives r a sure thing, but how much wealth can b hoarded by it`s delay. the longer the delay the greater the amount hoarded.

        why hasn`t any device been brought out, the only thing i c is hollywood theatrics.
        keeping a device secret to produce $billions. when there is a device that for a $billion will give unlimited electricity for transportation and manufacturing and lower the cost of goods to next to nothing for all.

        it took the power of a fission bomb`s pressure and heat to initiate a short term hydrogen fusion reaction, hot fusion has tried for 40yrs. so a vantastic discovery was announced just after the silicon solar cell was. hmmm, interesting.

        solar cell was an accidental discovery that could not be buried. the silicon diode was a money maker for communication and electrical production was the curse.
        it was safeguarded for 25 of more yrs by patent law, then guarded by high prices. then bang, 08, wealth stripping and wealth denial, massive long term debt. money going to were it shouldn`t.

        this curse is a power brokers nightmare. can`t sell energy, no artifical inflationary rises caused by an energy spike, no excuse to supply interuption. so how do u create a delay.

        so i asked myself, what is lenr really about. is it a medium to distract from real free energy by the hollywood illusion of lenr.
        so yes, i try and educate people. get them to question, to ask, to compare and most of all to take the time to learn and figure out the truth.
        i was fooled for awhile, until i asked myself the hard questions.
        why hasn`t the western world in it`s glorified might and intelligence has not gone full bore producing the solar cell to give all an equal oppurtunity.
        it can make a bomb per sec for $10k but they can`t produce a 300watt panel for $100/sec.
        why do western solar companies fail, when it is so cheap, yet the east is pulling in hugh profits and lowering the price every yr. rossi comes into the picture when the east is ramping up production and lowering the cost. eurica, i got lenr. pretty convenent, a great distraction.
        would europe need austrity if all people had free energy.
        if lenr is possible, who would gain.
        hypothetical cost for 1gram of nickel today $5. tommorro $50. 100yrs, $1000/gram.
        same visocous cycle repeating itself, controlled energy to control prices.

        e-cat that produces 10kws of heat. u can do that with 10m2 of solar and never pay a cent for fuel, the device costs a few hundred to make and will last 50+yrs. or use a 1m2 magnifing lens. if it`s cloudy, use h2 to heat until the sun returns.

        so is lenr an illusion of hope, if so, why.

        • dragon

          Solar cant compete to LENR field. LENR does TRANSMUTATIONS for God’s Sake.
          If LENR works, then even solar will be improved by LENR, but LENR can do MUCH MORE than solar, period.
          No reason to get upset on reality facts.
          Let’s go forward with LENR and solar and may the best technology win.

        • Barry

          sapain, Do you sell solar panels by any chance?

    • Tom Andersen

      I’m afraid that solar power uses more nickel per kWh produced than any LENR reactor would. You see – much of the hardware is made of nickel, and due to the low power density, solar would consume 1000x more materials than any nuclear reactor, LENR or not.

      At the end of the day its $ per TWh that matters, the lower the price the less resources of this planet we use up.

      • sapain

        solar uses no nickel. there is no nickel in a solar cell. copper is used as a conductor. aluninium is used as electron collecters.
        no nickel used in inverters, no nickel in electroysis cells, nickel-cadium batteries r going dino.
        nickel is an anti-corrosion medium and magnetic material, and alloyed to produce useful material.
        people want to consume, distroy by transmutation, this vailuable element to produce energy, when there is a free energy source with unlimited potential.

        ur reply is totally uneducated, sorry.
        solar cell-silicon, dopant-phosphorous, copper,boron, gallium, arsenic. conductors-aluninium and copper. storage-hygrogen, lead, lithium batteries, water gravity.

        kenvin o`leary had his socks knocked off yesterday. canadian company using alternative is producing hydrogen as storage medium for excess energy and is mixing it with natural gas in piplines, hydrogen production at 98% effectiency. when something like solar make o`leary sweat, u know it`s for real. o`leary hates solar, it`s a zero $ gain for profitteers. he denounces it because it`s a stock profit loss. once bought, the costumer never comes back, neither do their children or grand children.

        today, solar cells costs $1/watt to manufacture. that`s $0.007/kwhr over 50yrs.
        at $0.50/watt that`s $0.003/kwhr.

        yes, a solar cell that costs nothing and uses the 2nd most abundant material on earth, quartz, which is si02. and a zero cost fuel, sunlight. keeping 100s of 1000 of people building them. china got rid or robotics in solar assembly, people r faster. robotics stole alot of jobs to make some people richer.

        6grams of silicon/watt, home needs 1000-1500w of solar cells. that roughly 6x1500w=9kg of silicon that lasts forever.
        a kg of aluminium, 1kg of dopants.

        materials for lenr, they don`t have one.
        platinium and palladium-very rare metals.
        sonic fusion, contained water vessel with applied high heat=bomb, equals big isolated unit that sells u electricity at maybe $0.01/watt, reality, $0.10-0.20/kwhr.

        please explain to the readers were nickel is used in solar and how it is consumed.

        solar=0 cost of fuel. light to electrical conversion units r dropping in price every yr.
        focused light costs is dropping every yr.
        electrolysis produce both h2 and o2. o2 is a valuable commodity.

        but hey, if u choise to b a debt slave to an energy system that can price fix their fuel, that`s ur right.

    • oldfart

      I listened to that Brillouin energy interview and he said no nickel is consumed, only h2 …

      • GreenWin

        This is correct. The nickle, platinum, palladium, tungsten, etc are used for their crystalline lattice geometry to contain H2 and ions. The only reason nickel needs replacing is when the reactions are not sinked well enough to prevent corrosion/melting.

        It is reasonable to assume that future CF/LENR development will eliminate the corrosion issue and only H2 need be replaced. And H2 is the most abundant element in the universe.

  • I am hopeful that a “feel good” story like this (and it does make me feel very good), will be the kind of human interest story that will allow the “media” to open the door and begin reporting on the paradigm shift that’s been building. I would like to see these students on 60 Minutes sometime soon!

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah Richard, Having these young people pay a visit to Martin Fleishmann would make a great story. I think the whole world would be cheered up by seeing the torch being passed on to a new generation (if not the whole world, I know it would cheer me up).

      • Barry

        Good idea. It would be the story of the century. It would be the story that wakes up the world to LENR. Maybe Mr. Pons could be there too.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Yeah Barry, It would be great to see Stanley Pons there too but my guess is that he’s probably fed up with this crazy world. He learned first hand what it means to throw pearls before swine.

  • dandelion

    Man, it had to come from Italy. Italians are crazy in so many good and bad ways, you got to love them!
    Congrats to the kids that are doing this. It may be the best way to make a public impact with LENR. LENR school programs should become viral in Europe – schools have collaboration programs in Europe and exchange students and information. Maybe this school should collaborate with scools in Germany, Sweden, France etc. And often this collaborations are funded by the EU, so money is not a problem.
    Would anyone be in the know about this?
    Please, contact teachers in your country to collaborate with this school all over Europe.
    I will do this in my country.

  • georgehants

    If this school report is correct then I feel that no better example of the failure of science and the establishment can be given.
    My point as always is to open science from Dogma and stifling nay-sayers of closed-minded “opinion experts” so that our wonderful students and forward looking Rebels are free to research and investigate any subject with natural excitement and desire to forward science.
    It is criminal that administrations, on so many subjects, deter and impede progress by biased peer-review and funding to the extent that a subject like Cold Fusion is hidden and the great scientists working in the area are abused by journals and authority, followed by many of their closed minded colleagues.
    Open and free science to allow true scientists to do their jobs with joy and enthusiasm, not fear of upsetting the religious Dogma dictated by authorities.

  • georgehants

    Scientists See Solution to Critical Barrier to Fusion
    ScienceDaily (Apr. 23, 2012) — Physicists have discovered a possible solution to a mystery that has long baffled researchers working to harness fusion. If confirmed by experiment, the finding could help scientists eliminate a major impediment to the development of fusion as a clean and abundant source of energy for producing electric power.

    • With many governments cutting back on HF spend, I suppose we’ll see quite a few similar stories appearing now. ‘Don’t give up on us – we’re nearly there now!’. Right.

    • Zero

      “Why hadn’t researchers pieced together a similar theory of the density-limit puzzle before? The answer, says Gates, lies in how ideas percolate through the scientific community. “The radiation-driven islands idea never got a lot of press,” he says. “People thought of them as curiosities. The way we disseminate information is through publications, and this idea had a weak initial push.””

      I see. So when things are looked at negatively in the scientific community I guess what they must do is avoid it like the plague.

      • GreenWin

        Spot on Zero. This money pit is being closed one way or another. With the “density” of cold fusion announcements and proofs – the prestigious Princeton and MIT fusion labs will have taxpayer funding eliminated. May GE and Fluor want to finance their futures.

        The greatest PR move any of these HF labs could make is to openly and enthusiastically acknowledge the astonishing results from 23 years of CF experiments. Then throw their hats in the ring. And a bite or two of humble pie would help the damage control.

        Without this, hot fusion is headed for the scientific Boondoggle Museum – along with Piltdown Man, AGW, and the Flat Earth Society.

  • georgehants

    From 22 PASSI with thanks. Googlr translate
    Tuesday, April 24, 2012
    The Athanor dell’IIS Pirelli Rome (1)
    The engineer. Hugh Abundo, coordinator of the group of teachers, pupils with Pirelli dell’IIS of Rome, he made ​​a cell “cold fusion” with a yield estimated at 400% (COP 4), sent me during the night following, which I reproduce in full (except for minor changes for better usability on the web) and I will as soon as a downloadable pdf. These are the directions for making the cell “Athanor”, by professionals who have adequate skills, in the presence of all necessary equipment and in compliance with all recommended safety standards.
    I remember that the cell is covered by a patent application “defensive”, and that the IIS Pirelli decided to make generally available “open source” specifications for its construction and testing, the email that follows, after the preliminary yesterday ( here ), is the first real step in this direction.

  • sapain

    imagine, if high school students used their gained knowlegde and started building e-trikes powered by solar. isaac gave them what they need.
    3-bike tire, 1 with drive sprocket.
    light weight frame.
    1-500watt motor.
    4-12 volt batteries.
    1-160watt solar panel.

    they would enter life debt free, have transportation to build a rock house that would last a 1000 yrs.
    no energy costs, no transportation costs, no housing costs. they would b set for life.

  • tom h

    Sapain give it rest about solar!! you can not compare the possibilities of LENR to solar, there is no competion. If LENR can be commercialised solar would get blown out the water so please give it a rest, people are here to see if there is going to be a new energy revolution upon us, solar can not and will not ever create a new energy revolution.

    Also i think you need to do some more research into solar. Solar WILL NEVER EVER EVET EVER EVER be able to replace our dependence on fossil fuels, it is a fact (search up tom murphy who runs a blog caled do the math, he mathematically proved it was near impossible). Even if it could it would take decades (and i mean dacades) and sadly we dont have decades, the world uses many terrawatts of energy not giggawatts.

    I also hear you telling people all they have to do is buy a solar panel, well im sorry to say most people just cant afford 2. Ive said this before and ill say it again the western world is broke! every single major nation is drowning in debt, debt that cant be repaid weve used up our childrens and grandchildrens money. the only people with money are the major corporarions etc and there not going to pay for nothing.

    Also you will not be able to run industrial civilisation with 7bn people off solar panels the EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) is too low. to maintain our current way of life a high EROEI us required (back in the day oil had a EROEI of 100:1 hence why it was so cheap)

    I also hear you say alot that solar will keep getting cheaper. well yes it will but not as cheap as you think. you see solar requires the use of plenty (and i mean plenty) of fossil fuels. It needs plenty of fossil fuels just to dig the rare earths out the ground for starters. then it needs fossil fuels (ff) to transport the metals/elements to the required factory (a factory run on ff). then it requires ff to build the panels and to then package them. After that it needs ff to transport it to the required place and then it needs ff to attach it to someones house (thats alot of ff dont you think?).

    Now you see the bad thing is ff are going to get very expensive which means solar panels will get more expensive (they will still get cheaper yes just not as cheap as you think). At the same time people will have less money to spend on solar etc (most will need all there money just to survive) as there energy bills (electric, petrol etc) will go higher. most will even loose there jobs as companies have leas to spend on wages as they now have higher energy bills.

    Honestly i could write a essay on why solar will NEVER EVER EVER EVER replace ff, sadly i dont have the time. im all for solar (anything that cuts carbon emissions and the use of oil im all for) but your vision of a world run on solar is pure fantasy, industrial civilisation would have to dramatically downsize there luxurious lifestyles for that to be remotely possible (not gonna happen, well it will but that will be forced upon us by mother nature).

    anyway im rambaling now, the bottom line is LENR capable of a EROEI in the hundreds (if not thousands) completley trumps solars EROEI that is in single units (double if lucky) so get behind LENR as solar does not have the power to change the world for the better.

    (note: im writing this on a smart phone with 2 kids running around if i have made any mistakes or parts dont make sense this is the reason)

    • tom h

      correction: i meant the western worlds luxurious lifestyle not industrial civilisation luxurious lifestyle

      (as you know most of the world arent as lucky as us over here and thats while we run our civilisation on cheap oil with its high EROEI by the way (getting lower all the time i might add).

    • sapain

      hate to disapoint u tom, i don`t use an drop of oil, coal, gas or nuclear for anything.
      if i can do it, 6.5billion others can as well.
      it`s as simple as that. i live quite comfortable with 600watt of solar cells and a 600watt windmill. as a matter of fact, i can buy a 300watt panel every month, that`s what i save from not using bought energy.
      i just read, understood and applied. even upgraded personal solar designs.
      i talk the talk and walk the walk, i know the truth.
      what fossil fuels, they use their own solar panels to produce energy to manufacture, then there is hydroelectric. why would a solar cell manufacture buy energy when they produce it. what r u taking about.
      what`s a luxurious lifestyle. wow, 10s of millions of unemployeed, people going bankrupt, west is trillions in debt with the economy on the verge on collapse. and ur worried about luxurious lifestyle. this life style include $100k 30yr morgages and $30k car loans with $10k interest payments, 2 week holidays.
      lenr is a fantasy, 21yrs and F&P have still not publicly demoed their devise. why not, big sercet.
      by the way, the west has no luxurious lifestyle, only the elite. debt slavery is not a fun lifestyle.
      i have a good lifestyle, don`t have to work, work when i choose to, for as long as i choose to, doing what i choose to do. can go fishing 6 days a week all yr long. no morgage, no rent, no bank loans. just an internet bill and food. that`s my definition of freedom.
      be brave, spend $4k and get 4-300watt panels and see what ur hydrobill is for the rest of ur life and know that`s the same bill ur kids will pay.

      the only reason solar isn`t doing it now, is because some people don`t want free energy to b given out.

      another 5 yrs and solar will doing the trick.
      solar kicks out 60GW/yr now, 5 yrs it will 500GW/yr. so that`s over 1TW acumallated. focused solar,3x as much, 3TW. wind 1TW. carbon based fuels r gone.
      u can drive a gas guzzler for $40k, i`ll stick to a $2800 e-trike and buy 1 a yr. and salvage metal from the carbon dinos that r going extinct. all those catalytic converters, all that aluminium and copper, glass as a bonus for heating. $$$$

      did u know the cash for clunker was to pay the east, they didn`t want paper, the wanted metal.

      • admin

        Dear Sapain,

        I think you have said plenty on the subject of solar energy. This is a site primarily dealing with LENR. Please note that more posts from you promoting solar energy will be deemed off topic and will be deleted.

        Sorry, but it’s time to get back to the main topic of this site.

      • Tom h

        If you really think that the rest of the world can live like you your delusional!! Like i said do some proper research on it, and stop with this free energy, its not free energy. As i said it requires plenty of fossil fuels (energy) to build, transport etc as well as expensive rare earth materials, its not free energy if fossil fuels didnt exist the solar panels wouldnt!!!

        And yes western world is broke but it is still a luxurious lifestyle we have compared to the rest of the world! O by the way if as you admit were all broke over here how are we meant to but these panels????

        and u dont have to tell me about the coming economic collapse i know that itis coming and although yes the banks etc have screwed us over, the underlying reason it will collapse is because of peak oil. We need continuos growth to pay bk debts etc growth that requires cheap energy and a high EROEI growth that is never going to return. solar with its piss poor eroei could not return growth either only LENR has the ability too and thats untill we use up all of earths rare earths.

        Like i said i like solar but its just not capable of replacing fossil fuels FACT

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