PESN Reports on Defkalion Progress

In this week’s LENR-to-Market Weekly update where Sterling Allen of PESN reviews recent activity in the LENR field he makes a comment about Defkalion Green Technologies:

“A group Defkalion is working with wants them to postpone posting data from their tests until August when there is a big conference where they will be making a presentation. The scuttlebutt is that while the third party test results have been positive, there have been indications of instability and inconsistency between tests, which doesn’t speak well for production readiness. They’re still on track as a leader, but not in first position any more. In my opinion, the long delay in posting those test results which were supposed to be forthcoming even as early as during the testing, contrary to their promised early release, is a significant setback.”

Since Defkalion closed off most public communications earlier in the year it has been difficult to find out very much about the state of progress there. Allen’s report here does not name the group working with DGT, doesn’t provide any sources of the “scuttlebut” he mentions, so things are still somewhat foggy. Defkalion did release a slideshow of photos testing and factory preparation recently, and they have been advertising on their web site for a number of jobs at their company — so there is at least an appearance of progress from the company. It would be nice to know some more details, but the absence of any information from the parties that went to test in Greece keeps us guessing.

  • Guru

    They are in 4-5 months delay for sure and they are trying masked this elegantly.

  • SeanMac

    This delay was already predicted, Defkalion has nothing and they ran into a technical issue that can not be solved and will wait for Rossi to release his product.

    • WarpSpeed

      I do not think Defkalion has nothing. I think it is likely they are producing some amount of power. It is pretty easy to produce some small amount of heat from nickel and hydrogen. However, they have shown zero proof they can produce significant amounts of heat. For example, in one test Dr. Levi performed an E-Cat with a volume of one liter produced 15 kilowatts for 18 hours, and for a period of time was producing 120 kilowatts. It was producing this much power with less than 100 watts of input. We have no proof they can produce high amounts of output like the E-Cat.

      • Ged

        From the Defkalion slides, where we see fuzzy pictures of data, it looks like they are getting a small amount of heat out, but then the device destabilizes and burns out (in at least two of their graphs). If this is so, it would explain their delay.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Even the unstable production of unequivocally excess heat would be a plus for Defkalion (and LENR generally) at this point. For one thing, it would generate a lot of capital that would pay for a lot of development, hastening the final product. But what do I know?

    • Ryan

      I agree in principle and also believe that if one of these groups could show unequivocally that excess heat is generated there would be interest from various corners to help fund research. The problem I see however is that at least two power players would have reason to oppose this, and active proof would only cause them to come down hard on it as well as give them time to shape they message they want the average public to have of it.

      The US government would have reason to oppose it on two fronts. One, it would allow the dispersal of power generation to individuals. That sounds great to us but if say you’re the police that want to cut off power to suspected drug dealers or something similar then that becomes very hard to do when they aren’t hooked up to the grid. Its also hard to tax power that you don’t actively monitor. And that’s just at a base level. Oil is a big component backing up the US currency, since it is the reserve currency for that. Any definitive proof that an alternative exists that could be much cheaper than gasoline or other fossil fuels could deflate the value of the dollar and any politician that was considered the root of that would be lucky just to be run out of office given the current climate in the short term. Perhaps in the long term they’d be viewed as a hero but by then it would likely be too late. Take oil out of the equation and the US dollar would most likely lose its prominance in the world and that would be considered by some as untenable and thus combated with great fervor.

      Oil companies themselves would be the other juggernaut that would likely oppose it. They have a lot of resources tied up in oil, trillions, and something like LENR, should it live up to the promise, would be something that many would quickly adopt and offset need for oil. You could say that they would invest in it and make profit that way but I think they’d be leery of that as well. While they could make good profits off of selling LENR power units, were they to make them, the fuel itself seems to be very cheap and easy to come by. So, even if they sold generators the profit margin would quickly drop off after the initial purchase. Currently oil is a resource we can’t live without. We want things to keep running, we pay the price demanded for it, giving oil companies a stable profit maker and a lot of control. A good example is that we can make a lightbulb that could potentially last near a century, maybe even sell it for 60 to 80 bucks a pop. However, your profits would very quickly drop off since once purchased they wouldn’t be needed for a long, long time. Also, while it would undoubtedly take time to switch over to LENR based power for most of our needs (and to actually develop useful applications for things such as cars) the affect just knowing about it could have on oil prices could cause profit losses for oil companies as well. The price of commodities are not based on real values for the most part but instead on speculation. And if that speculation says that in the near term, say 5 to 10 years, that oil will have far less prominence to power our world, then that could cause drops in prices, potentially even immediately.

      I would love to see LENR be shown without a doubt and then have numerous industries step up to fund it despite the pressure that would be likely from the mentioned power brokers. I personally find that unlikely though, not impossible, but still unlikely. Threatening the powers that be before you have strong assurances that you can take them down is typically a plan for disaster.

  • WarpSpeed

    Defkalion needs to come forward and provide two things.

    1) Test data that shows their effect is real.

    2) Evidence that they are using their own technology, and not technology they obtained without authorization from the E-Cat.

    The fact is the president of Defkalion claimed that their scientists figured out how the E-Cat worked, but they were not going to use the information in building their own devices. We need evidence they have not done so.

    • Pachu

      if 1) is true, i really dont care about 2)


      if 1) is true 2) is going to be solved in courts and they are going to negotiate more or less money but no court is going to close a business both are going to keep providing LENR solution wich is great, end of 2) story.

    • GreenWin

      Why does anyone think any company manufacturing a proprietary product must come forward and provide a gaggle of bloggers anything?

      How many blogs are there demanding the hot fusion labs at Princeton and MIT deliver data their effect is useful to the public? They’ve had 60 years and $200 Billion taxpayer dollars to prove it. They have not.

      It seems clear we are witnessing something of a horse race amongst the many LENR commercial players. They will jockey back and forth claiming all kinds of things. All that really matters is what they publicly present, the quality of the data, and some verification thereof.

      What we can all be greatly appreciative of is the fact there is SO much activity in LENR to begin with. It clearly would not be so if a certain hot-headed Italian engineer had not stirred the pot so effectively last year. Gratitude goes a long way.

      Yet another LENR workshop in Italy took place yesterday hosted by Dr. Celani and Dr. Srivastava:

      Future looks bright.

      • daniel maris

        I don;t think that but both Rossi and Defkalion began by putting a lot of info in teh public domain – and then clammed up.

        It is suspicious behaviour that mirrors some other scams. So it is for Rossi and Defkalion to disperse the dark clouds of suspicion – we are not in a court of law…this is real life, where failure to live up to expectations has consequences.

        • GreenWin

          daniel – you may be right about mirroring scams. I do not follow “free energy” products or blogs, and only started with CF after reading the SPAWAR papers at ACS. That is hard science demonstrating a nuclear reaction in the SPAWAR electrolytic cells.

          What has probably happened with both e-cat makers is competitors (oil, fission, coal, envious scientists) have worked to silence LENR. Who else are the rabid skeptopaths trolling the net??

          BTW daniel, for many a court of law IS the real world. Perhaps you meant “we’re not on TV – this is real life?”

  • Lu

    Jed Rothwell on Vortex has stated, “The people doing them would prefer to keep
    everything quiet for a while longer, for good reasons.” I’m not sure if I think waiting for a conference to present results is a good reason but maybe it’s a big conference.

    • Its not a very good reason. ‘Leaking’ some results beforehand would stimulate greatly increased interest in any presentation they intend to make at the conference.

  • daniel maris

    Hmmm…not v. good. If they don’t come up with anything by July they are off my Christmas list. 🙂

    • Barry

      Daniel, I wonder if you should put your money aside for Christmas 2013.

      • daniel maris

        I really don’t know what to think of Rossi and Defkalion. I find it difficult to believe in a joint conspiracy. And being unable to believe that I still feel it more likely there is something more genuine.

  • Defkalion has NEVER shown anything ever.

    =NOBODY (except Sterling Allen) has EVER seen a reall defkkalion product.

    -Defkalion once announced they would shock the world within 2 weeks. 16 days later (not 2 weeks) they issued a “spec sheet” that any 12 year old could have written. If it was a science project they would have failed. It contained a mock up computer generated photo and a fuzzy picture.

    -Defkalion lied saying they were testing thousands of ecats. Then they recanted. This lie is openly addressed on their forums and is still there.

    -Their forums were heavily censored. I had my posts deleted from that forum for questioning their validity. Same username I have here.

    Why do we even discuss Defkalion? They have been nothing but Yap, Yap, Yap. Then they say they are closig their Forums because they dislike Yapping?

    Then they post a Fake ad to fake hire people? Did they really hire anyone? Can any REAL LIVE person attest to this?

    Scammer Mining companies have announced they have found a motherload to drive up share prices and then the owner sells his shares and moves to mexico.

    Could Defkalion be offering shares? Do they plan on going public? I see them as a scam entity.

    I know LENR is real. Rossi is real, Miley is real, Brillioun is real, MIT is real, NASA is real, etc, etc… but Defkalion smells stinky.

    • Bigwilly

      Excellent comments. I agree with everything except why would Rossi not fall into the same category as Defkalion?


      • Stephen


      • Rossi seems determined to fund this himself, and has worked 5 years on this without pay. He is worth a 6 digit salary with his educational background and patents. We also know LENR itself has been proven and is repeatable.

        Anybody doubting LENR simply needs to update their education. LENR is not in question.

        The Nickel/Hydrogen version of LENR has also been confirmed by many science organizations. Mitsubishi/Toyota,MIT,etc,etc.

        Rossi spent over 1 year giving many interviews and demonstrations. Nobody who has attended his demonstrations has spoke against Rossi.

        • Bigwilly

          Defkalion and Rossi and both shown zero. Steam, plumbing, interviews and endless talk equal nothing. These things are easy to do. Commercial LENR is what needs to be demonstrated and yet has not.

          Again, I am not doubting LENR. And even more so I would label myself as a Defkalion/Rossi supporter in as much as I want them to succeed. My belief structure however relies on some form of proof.


          • georgehants

            Bigwilly, very fair comment and agree it is all frustrating and I think we all see what your saying, it is just that some feel that just letting things develop without repeating many times what we are all aware of, cuts out the feeling of negativity.
            There is Evidence that positive thinking changes the World for the better.
            Peace as Barry would say.

          • Ged

            Rossi has at least shown off E-cats while in operation on numerous occasions for all to see and even record. I don’t know of any time Defkalion has done so.

    • Yes.

      Let’s not forget Rossi cancelled his demonstrations and kept quiet about his progress while he was stumped about stability control. His longest demo to date is 18 hours.

      If I were a Rossi lawyer I’d be advising him to prove he can keep it going for onger (if he can) so when the legal battles begin (and they will) a few years from now he will have proof he was at the head of the line.

      Defkalion has been asked to refrain from giving us more (fake) information. How convenient for them.

      They must think we are all morons.

      • Barry

        Personally, I think they are all really close…but not there yet.

        • Jimr

          Exactly, There are others also beside Rossi, Defkalion. I do not believe any have been able to successfully control repeatedly their devices. The first to accomplish repetitive control will be the winner.

      • Ged

        I think you make a good point, especially about the stability issue. Makes sense that Rossi mentioned a month long continuous run of the new E-cat reactor, probably to work out this very stability issue you mention. Seems he may have succeeded based on recent behavior, which changes the game if so.

  • Stephen

    It is unbelievable how this people can keep on discussing about products, market, tests, etc… based on absolutely zero facts… this is industry-fiction. Or, at least, it is undistinguishable from it.

    • Stanny Demesmaker

      and still you are following it?

    • What puppet master compels you to show up here?

  • Barry

    Hi all,
    Off topic. Still waiting for Jet Energy to give permission to show the MIT video. Has to be approved by more than one person. In the meantime I asked Dr. Swartz about the MIT NANOR being smaller than a gram. Apparently it is for classroom study and demonstration and quite portable. And he made some references to “heat after death”. Portions of his reply below. Take care, Barry

    “ ,,, attached is a url to his video from
    the previous Cold Fusion/LANR Colloquium at MIT in 2007.

    Yes, the weight of the active prepared LANR material is less
    than a gram for this particular NANOR, which was
    specifically developed for classroom (i.e. low temperature,
    rapid response time) demonstration.

    …background on ‘heat after death’, and other technical LANR issues,
    is available for you in some of our seven papers, such as
    from ICCF-14.”

    Best regards,
    Mitchell Swartz

    • Ed

      1g = 18milliwatts
      1Kg = 18watts
      1ton = 18kilowatts

      How much does 1 ton of the material cost to make? What is the density? How big is one ton?

      • Robert Mockan

        The NANOR uses palladium. I do not know how much palladium is in the NANOR 1 gram catalyst they are using now, but at over $600 per ounce (that is 28.35 grams) it is difficult to think a LENR using palladium will ever be inexpensive. A ton of palladium at $600 per ounce is worth $19,200,000.Even if only a small part of the catalyst is palladium, 18 kilowatts per ton of catalyst would not be very useful when megawatts of thermal power are needed at even COP=20 (and at high temperature!)for most applications other than space heating.

        • Barry

          It does seem very expensive. I’m hoping for the nickel-hydrogen.

  • georgehants

    Forty million Japanese in ‘extreme danger’ of life-threatening radiation poisoning, mass evacuations likely
    Thursday, May 17, 2012 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer
    ‘Wave’ of highly-radioactive waste reportedly headed for West Coast of U.S.
    Learn more:

    • Ged

      That is the most absurd, over the top site I’ve ever read. A wave of radiation? Thousands mostly children already killed on the west coast? You do know that the radiation from Fukushima was basically unmeasurable by the time it, being iodine and cesium diluted in the mass of water known as the Pacific Ocean, reached the west coast?

      Also, they do realize that the Reactor 4 has -no fuel in it-? It was defueled for renovation before the disaster even happened. It could collapse all it want, it’s just an empty concrete shell.

      Fukushima was no where near as bad as Chernobyl, and the world didn’t end after that. In fact, life is flourishing all over the abandoned evacuation zone there with no apparent adverse effects, and there’s even bus tours now.

      I think you need to stop reading that site, at least not seriously. The sensationalism, over the top absurdity (global nuclear holocaust?!), and completely nonfactual claims turn this into an amusing parody of a read.

      • GreenWin

        Frank sorry to wander off topic but this needs clarification. And is reason to accelerate LENR development.

        @ Ged, might want to fact check before posting:

        “Experts also worry about a fourth reactor that was not operating at the time of the tsunami, but nevertheless poses a risk because of the large number of spent nuclear fuel rods stored in a pool there.” New York Times 3/29/2012

      • well saif.
        even tchernobyl was not the horror people imagin, after the (sadly classic) horror of the first weeks of battling where dozens of firemen get burned to death by many sieverts…

        the impact of radiation themselves on the population have been null, beside the impact of iodin131 on kids (and only kids), causing thyroid cancer , normally easily cured.

        unlike hoax message by big desinformation organisation, no absormal birth, no other impact on cancer, no impact out of Ukraine,

        in fact all of thait is quite logical if you know that most of the population was exposed to less that 100mSv, that cause no problem in natural zone…

        this study conform the well known scientific knowledge that low radiation zone, especially if applied on long time, have no impact

        look shocking, but with LENR we know how hard it is to fight prejudices spread by media an lobbies.

      • The radiation that is falling on the US does *not* travel across the ocean, it is carried by jetsteams in the atmosphere, as even Fox News admits: Levels of contamination across large swathes of the US and Canada are now at a point where serious health consequences are inevitable.

        Reactor 4 was de-fuelled at the time of the disaster, but approximately 1,100 spent fuel rods remain in its spent fuel pond, which is currently perched about 30 metres off the ground in the wrecked building, and has caught fire due to overheating on two occasions already. That is not the worst of it though. At the time of the disaster, approximately 400 new MOX (uranium-plutonium) fuel rods were in the pond waiting to be installed, and if the pond collapses, these will fall with the rest, scattering plutunium on the ground and possibly leading to criticality fires that would release massive amounts of plutonium across Japan, and in time across the world.

        Radiation released from Chernobyl has impacted thousands of lives and caused untold misery that will continue for many decades, if not hundreds of years. A 2006 report by Greenpeace summarises the real situation objectively –

        Natural news may have sensationalised its report somewhat, but it is factually correct. I find it difficult to believe that someone can attempt to gloss over with half truth the sheer misery that radiation releases on the scale of Chernobyl and Fukushima have caused and will cause for future generations, and the real and imminent danger that the reactor 4 fuel pond represents. I can only guess at the motivation for doing so.

        • GreenWin

          All of which is political fodder – for some to bury, for others (those with courage) to demand immediate funding of LENR. Continuation of fission as a prime energy source in the face of mountainous evidence for LENR – will be considered a crime going forward.

          There is a technology and growing demand to end the radiative fission era and replace it with clean, abundant, low temp fusion.

    • Anthony Rockel

      Naturalnews is a haven for fearmongers, crackpots and con artists, most of them out to sell useless products or “therapies”. They carry ads that claim you can cure cancer with IV baking soda because cancer is actually a “fungus”. Nothing they say has any credibility.

      • georgehants

        As with Cold Fusion if you rely on “official” sources for information and Truth you will be waiting for ever.
        The Truth on every subject only comes from source and not censored sources such as the media, wiki-rubbish or science journals.
        One then has to be careful of what one believes, but better that than establishment backed lies, distortion and denial.
        If one has not learnt from Cold Fusion that all official sources of scientific Truth are totally suspect then one has learnt nothing.

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  • “A group Defkalion is working with wants them to postpone posting data from their tests until August when there is a big conference where they will be making a presentation.”

    Probably ICCF-17, 12-17 August 2012, Daejeon, Korea.

    “The scuttlebutt is that while the third party test results have been positive, there have been indications of instability and inconsistency between tests, which doesn’t speak well for production readiness.”

    If seven groups measure a thing, it’s not surprising if the results differ to some extent. If they differ too much, it won’t improve by August without some new measurements, though.

    • DaveS

      Makes sense. No surprise that Prof. David Nagel and Dr. Michael Melich, the organizers of ICCF-14, will also be present at ICCF-17. Funny that the names Melich and Nagel appeared over various photos on the original 2012-05_StatusPicturesFinal.pdf Defkalion photo status download. Also funny that subsequent versions of this download had the names removed.

      • Someone in Defkalion is probably briefed to follow all the principal CF blogs. Unfortunately they will now be more careful about giving away any more similar clues in the future. Their oversight at least shows that there are already significant cross connections between ‘players’ being made behind the scenes.

  • georgehants

    Admin could you confirm please that when you put up a leader such as today on Defkalion, you are not expecting everyone to keep exclusively to that topic but general Cold Fusion news and discussion is o.k.
    Thank you,

    • admin

      Yes, that’s fine George.

  • GreenWin

    Interesting too that Sterling has returned Rossi’s E-Cat to the Number 1 position on his Exotic list.

    “Given the magnitude of the recent disclosures about the E-Cat, I’ve decided to move them back into #1 position in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies listing, influence by the report that their first 1 MW plant sold is now in full operation. Defkalion delays further their 3rd party test results publication.”

    Caveat – LENR energy will never be “free.” But it will be very low cost.

  • This is a rumor not the official position. DGT
    cut off the public forum stating they wanted to
    rely on official communication or statements.

    Officially they say they will announce a product (factory ready) be seen July 12 2012.

    I was disappointed that they circulated an expectation the demontrations would be open
    and suggested parties would be free to release their reports or observations but all of them
    have not done so during or immediately after
    the series of tests.

  • John

    So the release dates are:

    Rossi: sometime way in the future
    Defkalion: sometime way in the future

    If we don’t see a independantly testable machine within 12 months, we probably never will see one.

  • SeanMac

    Defkalion really showed their lack of sophistication with the photos of Class C commercial space and a lab that was not suitable for a high school we should not expect anything further from them, this new extension to August confirms they are having serious problems .. that ONLY Dr Rossi could/can remedy.

  • It doesn’t cost much to post photos or interview engineers. It seems like all we hear from LENR developers is a variant in the theme of “more time, more money.” I’d like to see someone bite the bullet and bring a product to market.

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  • georgehants

    Such a sensible and topical quote from a man who knows a little bit about Dogmatic skeptasism and enforced religious censoring of anything outside establishment self-serving brainwashing.

    “In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual” – Galileo Galilei

  • joe

    Funny, exactly what I’ve expected from Defkalion.

    Guess what we are going to see on July 12, if anything at all. Another powerpoint pdf “presenting” their commercial prototype.

  • georgehants

    For the techy’s
    2SGen v5 – Towards MORE OUTPUT POWER, A New Interesting Experiment

    • LittleKangaroo

      I really don’t understand why people that don’t believe in anything of what’s being discussed in here keep coming back on a regular basis to talk down to people wanting to believe and wanting this to be real.

      I understand that everything they say don’t get backed up by any proof and that this might look a bit fishy to some people. Im a careful believer myself, thinking that if this is just a big scam I won’t get too depressed by it. It’s like playing the lottery, you hope you’re going to win, but if you don’t, it’s not the end of the world.

      Coming in here week after week claiming that you don’t believe in anything is fishy to me. It’s not logical behavior in my mind to care this much about something you don’t believe in. I don’t believe in the bible, but I don’t go in to bible blogs and diss their beliefs either. If you’re going to write criticism, you need to explain why you don’t believe.

      It’s better to have an open mind about things and help to get the word out instead of attacking it right away without any reason.

      • just behaviola proofs, that shows very good credibility.
        compared to that the behavior of Nasa, financials, bankers, or Hot fusionist looks much more like a big scam.

        Defkalion simply behave like in the real world.
        ambition, technical problems, fear of leaks…

        also reading some people behavior, and the global media prejudice and dishonesty, they are careful and furious.

  • vbasic

    If companies are on the verge of working commercial LENR products, one of them will want to be first. First to give real demos, first to name customers, first to have news and professional conferences. Even if it’s less than perfect. Low COP, some instability. I’m hoping it’s Rossi. Even if he doesn’t become rich from it (in his 60s doesent really need the wealth), at least he’ll get recognition. But if it’s Defkalion, or Brilliouin or another, it’s OK. Altair.

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  • TUB
  • Dear Jim,

    George Miley sent me your question about the “1 MW Australian Reactor running”. I was contacted from this group who mentioned something of a demonstration of the Rossi claims. I had replied that I cannot judge without knowing details.

    I mentioned that I am one of the very few physicists who concludes the reality of Miley’s discovery of LENR in 1994 from the fact of his measurement of the local Maruhn-Greiner-Maximum in his measured distribution curve of generated heavy nuclei at the large scale minimum curve. Miley could not know this fact similar from uranium fission if the uranium is in an MeV range exited state, see the following publications

    George H. Miley, Heinrich Hora, Karl Philberth, Andrei Lipson & P.J. Shrestha. Radiochemical Comparisons on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions and Uranium. In Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions and New Energy Technologies Source Book (Vol. 2) Jan Marwan and Steven B. Krivit eds., ACS Symposium Series No. 1029, American Chemical Society/Oxford University Press, Washington DC, ISBN 978-0-8412-2454-4 (2009) p. 235-252.

    H. Hora and G.H. Miley, Maruhn-Greiner maximum from uranium fission for confirmation of low energy nuclear reactions LENR via a compound nucleuas with double magic numbers. Journal of Fusion Energy 26,349-343 & 357 (2007)

    where reference is given in both cases to Fig. 5.

    These are exact experimental facts measured in one of the world’s best solid state physics centers, the “Frederick Seitz Laboratory” of the University of Illinois.

    About theoretical models and few experimental confirmations in this field I only can refer to ongoing discussions, e.g. about the “swimming electron layer”, collective effects, similarities to the inverse K-shell radioactivity and superdense Bose-Einstein-States, see e.g.

    H. Hora, J.C. Kelly, J.U. Patel, Mark A. Prelas, G.H. Miley, and J.W. Tompkins, Screening in cold fusion derived from D-D reactions, Physics Letters, A175, 138-143 (1993).

    George H. Miley, Xiaoling Yang, and Heinrich Hora. Ultra-High Density Deuteron-Cluster Electrode for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. Symposium of the American Chemical Society San Francisco 2010, S. Marwan at al. eds., Conference Proceedings of the Institute of Physics (in print).

    These are points of not finalized research in contrast to Miley’s before mentioned experimental facts. But this all fits very well with Miley’s new measurements with deuterium gas loading of palladium nano-particles where surface effects are essential.

    If you have further questions, please let me know

    Heinz, 20 June 2010
    Professor Heinrich Hora
    Foundation Professor Emeritus of Theoretical Physics
    University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia
    Tel. 02-95444432 FAX 02-46277769 or Wikipedia