Energy Abundance Possible

I sometimes wonder what it is that keeps me hooked into this cold fusion/LENR/E-Cat story so closely. I’ve been following this affair since January 2011, and still we are in waiting mode for any practical product to make its appearance in the world.

If we are looking for important and interesting topics to focus on, and problems to solve, there are plenty to choose from. We live in world of great contrasts, along with all kind of amazing technologies there are human tragedies almost everywhere we look. There are so many problems to deal with in our world, and like most people I’d like to see solutions come along. But the thing I keep coming back to is energy — it seems to me that solutions to energy problems is at the crux of a good portion of the problems we face.

What a working cold fusion device that provides useful power on a local scale allows is a much greater level of energy independence than we now know, and this is something that is attractive to many nations, communities and individuals. As we know, he world’s energy supply today is a precarious one, and energy supplies are dependent upon all kinds of political and economic variables. The promise of the E-Cat, if Rossi’s accounts are accurate (especially now we hear of 600 C stable temperatures) would be an important step forward towards making greater levels of energy independence possible on a number of levels. Energy consumption in heating, lighting, cooling, transportation, manufacturing, etc. is a large of all economic activity and if cheap and abundant energy were available, there could be tremendous savings realized allowing for expansion of economic activity and developments of new technologies and industries.

In the recently published book, Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think, Peter H. Diamandis and Steven Kotler write:

Humanity is now entering a period of radical transformation in which technology has the potential to significantly raise the basic standards of living for every man, woman, and child on the planet. Within a generation, we will be able to provide goods and services, once reserved for the wealthy few, to any and all who need them. Or desire them. Abundance for all is actually within our grasp . . . the advancement of new, transformational technologies—computational systems, networks and sensors, artificialintelligence, robotics, biotechnology, bioinformatics, 3-D printing, nanotechnology, human-machine interfaces, and biomedical engineering—will soon enable the vast majority of humanity to experience what only the affluent have access to today. Even better, these technologies aren’t the only change agents in play

The authors don’t mention LENR technology here, but it certainly has the potential that could be the change agent that can help power all other (and more) technologies mentioned above.

We’ve talked about these things here before, I know, but sometimes I find it useful to ask myself why on earth I am spending so much time focusing on every little detail that I can find about things related to LENR. Being generally an optimist I am very hopeful that the emerging field of LENR will allow for the realization of many important benefits for our world (and no doubt new problems to deal with), and for that reason I believe it’s something worth keeping a close eye on.

  • georgehants

    Until people realise how they once again are being conned by the rich and powerful nothing will change.
    It is an illusion that people must work the hours that they do.
    If one looks at the technology advances since say the 1950’s then millions have been put out of work, where have they gone, into jobs that are an illusion and made up out of nothing, mainly finance related where nothing is produced just a circular “employment” of the population.
    People should be retiring at say 45 and working only in jobs directly related to production and welfare for people, every other job is an illusion made up to keep people working.
    People should celebrate every job lost not fear unemployment.
    Cold Fusion should just to help more people into shorter working hours and more time to enjoy their lives.

    • Daniel M. Basso

      I agree with you. The controllers of the financial system have the world population as slaves. Global markets were the best invention to keep this system under their control. Now LENR brings the possibility to change the game, by empowering communities to be more self-sufficient.
      There are too many things going on right now, good and bad. Hard to predict how the world will look like in ten years.

    • Forty years ago I walked into a research job, having been offered three positions more or less simultaneously, and within about five years I was earning enough to buy a house, good car and all the other trimmings of mid-seventies life. This wasn’t particularly unusual at the time. Now, my two daughters (both with degrees, one in science and also qualified as a teacher) are both older than I was then and neither can find work other than temporary jobs cleaning or working in shops.

      The Greeks are living with ‘austerity’ that makes ours look like a party, and the Spanish, Portuguese and possibly the Italians may follow shortly, while the threat of economic collapse and the mayhem that would follow looms over all of Europe and the US.

      If this is what the genuinely amazing new technologies developed between 1972-2012 have bought us (or failed to prevent) then I don’t see much reason to assume that the arrival of cheap energy systems will be permitted to change things in any profound way.

      • AstralProjectee

        Peter Roe: “If this is what the genuinely amazing new technologies developed between 1972-2012 have bought us (or failed to prevent) then I don’t see much reason to assume that the arrival of cheap energy systems will be permitted to change things in any profound way.”

        This is not true, since LENR is much, much different than any of these other technologies. The reason why is that LENR in a totally different category than let’s say a computer or a cell phone or whatever. All these other technologies will not cut at the core of poverty or the economy, since they don’t affect the fundamental nature of poverty or the economy. LENR is like the missing link at this time in history. The reason why it’s so different on a fundamental level is that your giving the power of cheap energy to the individual and not a oil or an coal company. Not only that but cheaper than a oil or coal company. You are creating so much energy easily in your own home. No other technology is close to doing that. No other technology is so cheap and energy dense. This is what separates LENR from all other technologies.

        On a fundamental level if you have more cheap energy for every INDIVIDUAL, then you can free up your own time and do less work so that you can focus on yourself, others and the environment. That is how LENR can transform the world.


        • Barry

          AP, Lets not underestimate the power of technological communication. It is transforming the world. Sometimes I think it is the force that will keep Cold Fusion from being squashed this time around.
          As I said above MIT is now offering a free education online, though not for credits.

          • AstralProjectee

            I just read about that Harvard and MIT will spend $60 million to develop an online education program that will offer free courses from the two institutions. Great stuff.


      • georgehants

        Peter agreed, but we must find the answer and it is not Capitalism but some form of society based on what people fairly desire.
        Many people want just the basic needs and fair extras, they do not want mortgages, bills, etc.
        Remove all money and finance and you remove millions of wasted jobs.
        Most people would be very happy to exchange these needs for a fair working life and many would voluntarily work much longer.
        Now start from there, I could go on for hours and there are many problems that should be fun to overcome.
        What is clear is the present system is crazy and designed to keep only the rich and powerful perpetually in that position.
        Without finance, but everything based on working time needed to produce, there would be no economic crises as production would not change.
        It is all an Illusion.
        I will shut-up now.

        • daniel maris

          We might agree the current system could be improved upon…

          I don’t think you can wish away finance. If someone wants a house, it appears you want to give it to them now without them having to pay for it. But if that is the case, you are going to have to have a system of rationing for deciding who gets what house (I’ll have the big house on the hill please, and throw in some free maintenance).

          I think however we can improve on the present system – we could move away from capitalist companies towards co-operatives, through various incentive schemes, and we could extend employee share holdings. We could ensure the basics of life are a lot cheaper so poorer people can lead decent lives.

          We could eliminate unemployment.

          We could reduce the working week to four days and then three.

          I think LENR if proven could be a major step forward in making a better society.

          • “I think LENR if proven could be a major step forward in making a better society.”

            I hope you may be right, Daniel. I think the point I was trying to make though was that the advent of the computer had the potential to take over much of what was done using paper, pen and the human brain in say 1985. Theoretically this could have reduced the overall load on the working population and in turn, the average working week.

            So what actually happened? More and more tasks were found to fill the new capacity provided by computers, while people continued to work for as long or longer than before, and many incomes actually fell as human skills were replaced by software.

            Apart from the issue of ‘ownership’ of LENR technologies (that I am absolutely certain will end up in the hands of government and corporations, not those of individuals) I think it must be clear that demand for energy will simply rise to absorb the new capacity. So in the same way that we now need terabyte hard drives in our computers, where once 40Mb seemed adequate, the amount of energy we consume in our normal everyday lives will simply rise to match any reduction in cost.

            Of course, world politics will change drastically as we collectively move way from dependency on fossil fuels, the world will become a cleaner place, and America will have to find new reasons to start wars. But from the individual’s POV, I don’t think much will change.

      • Barry

        It’s hard to watch our kids go through that. I read recently, in America, in the fifties, one person would work forty hours a week and pay for a mortgage, all the bills and college tuition for their kids. In the seventies and eighties both parents had to work for all of that. In this century parents and their children had to go severely into dept in order to pay for it all. When you pay for mortgages, insurance and oil how much of the pie is left.
        My wife thinks I’m becoming too zealous about Cold Fusion. I’m starting to think she’s right. It’s just that after all of the ugly wars, Cold Fusion just gives me a lot of hope in the future. Not faith but hope. Right now I’m struggling to find out what is real and what I want to believe.

        • Barry, I really don’t think there is much doubt that there is an exploitable phenomenon or phenomena that we currently call LENR, and that it/they will lead to viable alternative power sources quite soon. Like Frank I have been following the story since Jan 2011, driven by the hope that it would lead to a better future for the world in general, and my kids in particular.

          However I’ve become convinced over this time that there really are ‘forces’ at work that control large parts of the world through finance and engineered debt. I believe that the people and organisations that constitute these forces – principally the major international banks that own the energy industry – are powerful enough to corrupt whole governments, and even to set up their own (the EC) and so will win the forthcoming battle for control of this technology.

          My remaining hope is that there will still be some gains to be had, where these coincide with the interests of the ‘1%’. However it seems very likely that these will be relatively little, compared with what could have been.

          I genuinely and sincerely hope that the optimists like Greenwin and Astralprojectee are right, and that my pessimism is proved to be unfounded. We’ll find out which it is to be fairly soon I think.

          • P.S. My wife thinks my interest in CF is an early indication of rapidly encroaching senility. She may be right, of course.

          • Barry

            Peter, My wife thinks those things too, only she would add dementia to the list. Why just last night I got out of my truck and started walking across the yard when….. sorry, what were we talking about?

      • Pipmon

        Ok, the situation does look dire, but I don’t think it has anything to do with technology on a fundamental level. Forty five years ago I was pretty much like you thinking that the “good life” was going to be for always! But over the years my work had me posted in many “third world” countries and that opened my eyes to the fact that our prosperity was based on a pretty unequal sharing of world resources with the great majority of the world’s peoples.
        Maybe twenty years ago it became really evident to me that a price was going to be paid the day we opened our doors to competition with these countries.
        And so it has, and that could be beneficial overall, but what I think we shouldn’t accept is the idea that we should compete to reach the ‘lowest denominator’ in terms of wages and working conditions.
        It is unacceptable and unconscionable, to say the least, that our history of reaching some sort of economical balance (through bargaining and unions) between labour and corporate ownership should now be completely gutted by these corporations’ ability to outsource production to countries where these checks and balances do not exist! Where till fairly recently it was still the case that people could be paid a dollar a day, and be chained to their work benches! And the appalling complicity of these companies and our governments in not flatly refusing to allow trade under these circumstances.
        Compete yes, but compete with the idea that safety, dignity and equitable sharing for all involved comes before undue profit.
        The obvious outcome of the present tendencies will be social unrest that brings back to mind a song: “Rouge le peuple est en colère, Noir l’espérance de la terre!”
        and what ensued.

        • Jay

          Without a concerted effort by us. The ones that are aware and hopeful about LENR, and also understand how easily it could be regulated, taxed, maybe even smothered by Governments and corporations, the benefits to the common man will be lost. We have an opportunity NOW to organize, lobby, and make a difference. We all have opinions of how LENR might change the world, and the dialog has been fascinating to read. We need an organization that is prepared to fight for LENR freedom. In todays social media environment, that can be a powerful tool for change. I hope someone with the knowledge and skills to get the ball rolling effectively does so soon, or it will be to late. I know, why not me right? I do not have the organizational skills to pull it off. I hope someone out there does.

  • Energy consumption is life. Transition to unlimited energy is like a phase transition that enables unlimited expansion of life into the surroundings.
    If CF is real, 99.9..% of people are living in a world that actually does not exist any more. In that world they are still drilling oil, searching for the Northeast Passage and quarrelling over ugly windmills.
    But all is not up to CF, there are also other potentially cheap energy sources, most notably the sun, although our cunning and collaboration hasn’t yet been sufficient to tame it.

    • GreenWin

      Great observations Pekka. Indeed, there are other non-solar sources of energy. Sonoluminescence, cavitation, Casimer – come to mind. Had CF not been so well publicized another of these energy effects would have come about.

      It has been a bit like Kim suggests – fish paying for the oceans they swim in. On the bright side, energy commerce has only been a business for a couple hundred years. The Dark Ages lasted twice that!

  • edog

    Totally agree with you Frank, on all points raised.
    I am addicted to the topic, I am sceptical but still hope, hope not for personal benefit but for the future of everything on this planet.

    If this technology arises it will change everything.

    I would love to read about it on your site if/when it happens! Until then it is a great read, a great story, its just missing a bit of true romance. Will Rossi and Defkalion kiss and make up.. maybe get busy and produce some off spring??

    Oh yeah Frank! On another note…The “Pirelli High” Anthanor Cell can you use your LENR fame and journalistic pulling power to send some enquiring emails?? They say they have a COP of 4, they have given out their methods and want their findings to go open source… apparently people are trying to replicate it. I am thinking, this technology may make it to “market” way before the Ecat or the Hyperion..or anything else for that matter!

    This is way way far more interesting at the moment, can we know more about this? I know its difficult because they are Italian. But some one must know something????

    Back to your topic.. Open Source LENR to power the world?? To be proved, improved or disproved. Right now! Not controlled, free and available to everyone anywhere??
    This is the real dream I would love to see!!

    … yeah I wouldnt mind a fully LENR powered ocean going boat of some kind…totally pimped out.. ice makers, air con, desal, electric engines, hot showers, big screen, disco lights, mirror ball, radar, 5000 watt surround sound hi-fi all running 24h/day 7 days.. cruising the high seas!! poor fish!


    • AstralProjectee

      edog “Will Rossi and Defkalion kiss and make up.. maybe get busy and produce some off spring??”

      Rossi and Defkalion will never make up in this life time. Rossi is too old and set in his ways to make up anyway. Defkalion can’t be trusted.

      Nice thought though.


      • edog

        Sceptic! Non-Believer!!!
        You are being so negative, love can find a way…

        So whos the big bad evil step queen in law? in this story so far?? Pretty sure I know who the boy is that cried “wolf”!

        Hey! Anyone know how many light bulbs a real 10kW ecat could run in the average African village?
        or how many litres of water it could purify a day? or how many smartphones it could charge in an hour?? how many heaters it could run a night?
        or meals it could cook?

        • AstralProjectee

          Actually I am like 98 percent sure these technologies have are really working and at least very close to what they say they are working. So yes I am a believer but I have some reserves. I have seen the evidence. Not in great detail, but enough to convince me. I have been following LENR for years now.


      • GreenWin

        Actually guys, if you noted the appearance of Mike Melich at Defkalion’s latest photo shoot – he sits on Andrea’s Board of Advisers. So, it is not unlikely they already ARE working together, along with an international team of very good scientists. Quite possibly lead by Dr. Randell Mills – a true original.

        There IS plenty for everyone.

        • GreenWin

          Damn! Just after this post the Defkalion website went — DARK??

          Truth HURTS!

    • We have to remember that no fusion device, including the $60 billion worth of hot fusion, can even light a small bulb – maybe a diode, but not much more. We have a long way to go. We really need to stir the politicians to commit real money to the research.

  • Barry

    “Abundance for all” sounds great. One thing I’ve learned from following the unfolding of Cold Fusion technology. Abundance for just myself falls rather flat. I want abundance for everybody.

  • Guru

    When Alfred Nobel invent and widespread his Dynamit / Dynamite, he used exactly the same words and optimism as above Frank’ story: “powerful, energy, no hard work, abundance, etc etc”

    and where we are after all these years:
    criminal murderous beasties in human skin are commanding whole world. You switch on a TV set and hundreds hours of ZioNazi propaganda is radiating out of screen, 70% of population is living in misery.

    These Satanists, Luciferians and Baphomet adorers even after LENR revolution will use their banks and “credit system” again and will strangle humankind again and again.

    First step must be “Glasnost” – possibility of talking and writing about tabu themes.
    Rest will coming.

    • I fully agree with the sentiment, if not all of the references.

      • edog

        Feel your anguish dude Guru, you old commie you!!:)
        Firstly, stop watching bloody TV! Unless, of course its Game of Thrones 🙂
        And I too, totally agree with your sentiments too!

    • AstralProjectee

      Guru: I will answer you in almost the same way I answered Peter Roe.

      This is not true, since LENR is much, much different than any of these other technologies. The reason why is that LENR in a totally different category than let’s say a computer or a cell phone or whatever. All these other technologies will not cut at the core of poverty or the economy, since they don’t affect the fundamental nature of poverty or the economy. LENR is like the missing link at this time in history. The reason why it’s so different on a fundamental level is that your giving the power of cheap energy to the individual and not a oil or an coal company. Not only that but cheaper than a oil or coal company. You are creating so much energy easily in your own home. No other technology is close to doing that. No other technology is so cheap and energy dense. This is what separates LENR from all other technologies.

      On a fundamental level if you have more cheap energy for every INDIVIDUAL, then you can free up your own time and do less work so that you can focus on yourself, others and the environment. That is how LENR can transform the world.

      OK that this point I would like to add that there is one more thing that needs to be overcome and that is ideologies. This is not a problem of technology but of ideologies. Once cold fusion comes into play it will soon no longer be a problem between the rich and poor but one of ideologies. Like al qaeda coming over here to bomb us. This will take a long time to fully eradicate but with proper polices and moderate Muslims standing up all radical Muslims will die or be be de-radicalised or die a bitter crazy Muslim. Then the new generation will arise and say I don’t want to be like my crazy dad. But this will take many generations.

      BTW, things are still much, much better overall right now than lets say back when dynamite was made.


    • Yes, the world is out to get you. Especially watch out for those Zionist/Nazis.

      • AstralProjectee

        There is 91 million radical Islamists. It only takes a few.


  • Kim

    Every one on earth is living a lie.

    Energy scarcity ???

    Yea Right.


    • Omega Z


      It’s not that energy is scarce, But that obtaining it becomes more expensive. You can no longer afford it.

      Was a time when you could drill for oil with a drill rig that cost a couple hundred thousand dollars a couple hundred feet & hit Oil.

      About 10 years ago Texaco Oil bought a new deep water rig that COST 12 billion dollars before it ever hit the water. It takes about 30 years to pay for itself & in 40 years it’s ready for scrape metal.

      Theirs still some oil that’s obtainable for $5 to $10 a barrel in the Middle East, but those wells are drying up fast. Oil off the coast of Brazil is estimated at $60 a barrel plus just to get it to the surface. The deeper you go the costs increase exponentially along with the risks. Deep wells can take several years of study & an addition year or more before it’s drilled to completion. There’s a waiting list for drill platforms. Reservations to be made & paid for even if you don’t follow through.

      It can now take a couple years average to replace an old well that took only a couple months to complete. This requires hugh expenditures in order to keep up with replacing old wells as fast as their shut down & even more to gain for additional demand. Eventually you reach a point where you loose more then you gain. This is what they usually mean when speaking of peek demand.

      Truth is there is probably more Oil in the ground then what we’ve used in total. It just becomes financially unobtainable in the quantities we need.

      Over 90% of fossil fuels are owned by Governments & they control the less then 10% the energy companies have by Tax & Regulation.

      While most people Fear the Energy companies may try to stop LENR Technology, I Fear those who control the 90%. Who has the most to loose.

      Besides, The Oil companies can just roll their profits into the stocks of LENR companies. Same companies. Different product.

      You say everyone’s Living a Lie. I’ve always said life is a Giant Masquerade party. Participation is Mandatory. The Powers That Be keep us in the dark & feed us BS. Class Warfare. Dived & Conquer. Anything to keep us from noticing the man behind the curtain. Few things in life are what they seem.

    • Stephen

      Life on earth has been about fighting to get enough energy (food) to carry on and breed kids for millions of years… is all this a lie? If you think energy is everywhere and free you could maybe rebel against your body and stop eating 🙂 … it’s insane isn’t it? the energy contained into your fingernail would be more than enough to run your body for its entire life span… how the heck can it be that you have to eat twice a day?! 😉 is that some sort of a government conpiracy?

    • jacob

      Kim,that’s right ,there is no shortage

    • Pipmon

      Some time ago, in response to a similar ‘skeptical’ assertion by someone on some other post, of the lie of energy scarcity I took the time to look up the data (not difficult to find) of world oil consumption since the first modern oil well (1800’s) and the trend since then in consumption increase. It’s been fairly consistent at a doubling every so many years. The upshot was that if the ENTIRE mass of the earth was pure oil, we would consume it all in about 300 years!
      So a limit does exist, whether you believe it or not, and even way before then (the burning of the last drop that is) “we be getting our feet sooty”!

  • Rewind the tape to 1989/1990. Communism/Socialism disintegrated. What we have left is pure capitalism as it has existed for the past N years. This system is not the most efficient system for producing scientific breakthroughs. There-in lies your (Frank’s) frustration. Time to write an article about the X-Prize way of doing things?

    • GreenWin

      Charles, read Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think Co-author Diamandis invented the X-Prize.

      A good step forward will be to move past the duality of particle – wave physics. Wave and wavelet vertices well describe the appearance of particles atomic and sub-atomic. Also explains oddities like EPR, entanglement, non-locality and obviates the need for space-time.

      • If space-time is just a sub-set of a multidimensional universe it would be unsurprising if it is impossible to reconcile the apparent duality of particles/waves, or explain the various ‘oddities’ within this context. Perhaps a future generation of AI will be able to get to grips with the next level of ‘higher reality’ but this may prove to be beyond the abilities of any human mind.

        • georgehants

          Until “science” starts to embrace and not fear the evidence for the many examples proving reality beyond the sad reductionist, materialistic, closed-minded dogma of their World, very little will progress.
          It is like scientists dismantling a television down to the atoms trying to find where the pictures are, until they realise that they are not in the t.v. nothing can progress.
          Guys, look fairly at the good evidence for much more on the fringe websites.
          It is like Cold Fusion you will not find the TRUTH from any official scientific or establishment source only from fringe sites like this one.
          As with economics etc we are all being conned.
          I challenge any fair open mind to seriously investigate the evidence for UFO’s and many other anomalies and come back saying there is not a strong case to answer and that like Cold Fusion it is being hidden, distorted and denied by the establishment.

        • georgehants

          Peter this may help –
          Eureka! When a Blow to the Head Creates a Sudden Genius

          • I’ve banged my head on the occasional low doorway or tree branch in the past, George, but sadly it doesn’t seem to have helped much!

          • georgehants

            Peter could be a good time to invest in company’s producing club hammers as there could be a rush to buy.
            Seriously though what a wonderful chance for scientists to investigate reality and get away from the mind is a clever steam engine.

  • Kim


    We are energy, we live in energy. Everything is

    College Educated People can’t figure this out?

    We actually believe that we have to pay for energy.

    Its like a fish paying for water.

    What a sad state of affairs.

    I have no words to describe how pitiful this is.


    • You paid for the capital costs of your solar collection and are paying for the investment you made in that in the form of the interest that could have been made via some other investment. Alternatively you could be hooked up to the grid and pay a base rate that reflects the capital cost of the grid and something more for the energy you use. Either way you are paying or paying and nothing is free unless you are delusional or being highly disingenous.

    • GreenWin

      Kim, unfortunately the college education is part of the problem. Since academia does not teach disruptive theory or research anomalous heat effect. But this will change shortly as science is forced to accept entirely new descriptions of energy and matter and the wavelet universe.

      It is pitiful at the moment, but as authors Diamandis and Kotler point out – life is better than we have been told. And there is plenty for everyone.

      BTW, Diamandis is the inventor of the fabled X-Prize.

      • Barry

        GreenWin, The internet is changing everything as far as education is concerned. MIT is now offering a free education over the internet. It doesn’t count for credits, but if you want to learn a field or expand your awarness it’s available to anybody with computer access.

        • GreenWin

          That is progress! THX Barry.

        • Ryan

          Not just MIT. Standford, Harvard,, and Khan Academy are all providing free courses online. Honestly I hope that is the beginning of a massive transition in our education model.

      • Stephen

        what new description of energy and matter are you talking about? never heard anything about it…

        • Stephen

          Also, consider that without the science you blame so much even the PC you r tiping your posts on would not exist… and surely it would not have been invented by unrealistic and irrational people thinking that you can get energy from anywhere by snapping your fingers!

          Probably part of science has to be blamed, finally it is made by humans who can make mistakes… but I surely would not throw everything (or even a part) to the trashcan.

      • jacob

        how long will it be when text books will be overhauled,they are outdated,some say 40 some say 60 years, along with the Smithonian institute who are hoarding information regarding our human history,and only exhibit things they want us to know.

    • I do believe the fish IS paying for its water; nothing exists without ultimately paying the price of death (though death, in this respect, is desirable) – general economy, as coined by Georges Bataille (or perhaps rather Nietzsche), rules every being in the universe. The monetary system – the subjective answer to general economy – is, on the other hand, I agree with you, a bit pitiful. =)

      Still, though, I am vegan, which would mean, I guess, that I wish for an – impossible – ethical way out of general economy. =)

    • jfab

      So you don’t pay for energy, you get it for free?? No? But everything is energy, why don’t you just get your own energy?

    • Stephen

      I don’t understand based on what logic reasoning you believe that energy should be abundant and free for everyone. I would rather say that recently we have been lucky because we enjoyed very cheap energy (like oil until few years back)…

      Because we are “made of energy”?! What do you mean? E=mc2? 🙂 Please…

  • John

    If energy were free, what would change? Well, I’d still pay for power transmission. I wouldn’t worry about having heaters on in winter. I wouldn’t care about driving all over town anymore. Some food costs would be less. Travel costs would be less.

    But apart from that, many things would stay the same. “Free energy” will not change a lot of things in our lives. Many yes, but most, not. Until the rise of the robots, our lives are going to be pretty much the same here on this planet.

    Oh, unless solar cells drop in price just a little bit more. Now that’s a horse I can bet on.

    • daniel maris

      Well you are right that there will never be anything such as “free energy” in our time. But there’s no reason to pay for power transmission.

      If everyone started driving their cars everywhere, they’d have to introduce congestion charging or road pricing everywhere.

      I think it is the poor of the world who would most benefit. Reliable energy could now be brought to isolated villages. Water could be desalinated cheaply or extracted from the atmosphere.

      I would agree that the real change will come with robots – when robots can dig the metal ore, operate the steel factory and make themselves, including the robots that go out and dig the metal ore, well then you are eliminating labour cost and potentially making products free or at least v. cheap.

    • I think actually almost everything would – or at least could – change. Coupled with the other technologies mentioned (from the book excerpt) we could stop working – why do someone else’s job when I can grow all my food, and print any object at home? The perhaps most important piece in this is energy production. From that we could privately start producing electricity too and from that follows water cleaning (e.g. desalination) and, as mentioned, food growing from home.

      It is most likely hard to grasp all that which might change, for good and for bad, but rest assured it would be revolutionary and many an old institution or company would fall.

    • Everything would cost less.

      Imagine you made televisions or widgets. Your costs for transportation and heating and cooling would drop significantly and you would lower your prices to compete with others.

      Take this a step further and every nut / bolt / computer chip inside your televisions or widgets would also be cheaper based on the same premise applied to your suppliers.

      Cruise ships may go fast enough to pull ski’s. Why drive the boat slow when energy is cheap?

      Cars will become huge. Everyone will have their own “motorhome” to drive to work because fuel is so cheap.

      Power transmission? Not if you generate it wherever you want.

      Society real danger is coming from Mechanized work forces, and has no relation to the e-cat.

      A hundred years ago a farmer could plow and farm 10 acres of land. Now the same farmer can farm 200 acres of land and reap 300 acres worth of product because of mechanization and growth technology. This puts people out of work.

      Computers put people out of work.

      The printing Industry is one example of a business destroyed by technology. It is 1/20th of its former status. Who needs a phone book anymore when you have iphones.

      Film developers have faded away and movie rentals have moved online.

      The governments will need strong social service welfare bases, or they will need really large jails.

      Eventually there will not be enough jobs to go around. Even bus drivers will soon lose their jobs to driving computers and bus “monitors”/security.

      • daniel maris

        Energy costs account for only about 15% of production in a developed country. If you reduce energy costs by 66%, you might cut prices generally by 10%. Significant but not earth shattering. Although energy is a component in all products, it is really labour that you pay for.

        I think really, the main difference would be cultural if we could have a LENR power pack in our homes. We would start seeing our home differently. We might begin to see them as potentially centres of production. Is there really any reason why we can’t produce a lot of food in our homes? – perhaps beginning with salad foods. Equally with 3D printing there may be many products we can produce in the home.

        • Let me explain the pricing a bit more.

          Imagine you were building a Car or Television or widget.

          If you only saved 10% on energy costs that would be significant, but not overwhelming.

          But the guy that builds the tires can sell them to you for 10% cheaper, and the guy that builds the speedometer can also sell for less.

          Every part is arriving at a cheaper price. Fuel/ trucking /shipping costs would also be significantly cheaper.

          Some products come to market priced mostly for shipping costs. Apples and Bananas are examples.

    • Stephen

      I disagree… I think that if LENRs are real and viable they would be a revolution. One which is as huge as you can imagine. The fact that energy distribution will still personally cost you something seems irrelevant to me…

      Note the conclusion of this document by the defence (I assume these are very practical people, in general…)

      at the end it states: “LENR power sources could produce the greatest transformation of the battlefield for U.S.
      forces since the transition from horsepower to gasoline power”. I am convinced something similar would happen to the wider world. This would be a true revolution.

      Problem is: will it really happen? That’s what I am not sure of…

  • andreiko

    IK zag een ei een kuiken baren ,een vechtmachine is geboren (vraag maar aan allen die inmiddels zijn opgegeten haha)dit deed mij denken aan de e-cat wat een rendement uit een beetje gelei.

    • kein klarheit für mich mit dem symbolismus. Fighting machine, jelly, some eaten alive, inverse chicken-egg problem. E-cat, food for thought.

      • Indeed, you raise some profound and interesting questions. Ich denke, also bin Würmer essen.

    • GreenWin

      More like, here is a chicken laying a “golden” egg. Will the astonished peasants enrich themselves, or crush it in fear of the devil??

      • The astonished peasants will be lucky if they can gaze at the golden egg from afar, let alone enrich themselves from it.

    • jacob

      andreiko,wat? ,ik kan het niet verstaan

  • Pingback: Energy Abundance Possible | E-Cat News Live Feed()

  • GreenWin

    Gentlemen, interesting arguments. But let’s not forget that technology – as the authors of Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think point out has raised the standard of living for literally billions. Their suggestion is it will continue to do so.

    Remember there are new jobs created by technology. How many hundreds of thousands work in IT, software, entertainment, recreation, etc all tech-based. In my area Amazon just announced 2500 new jobs – invented to service a global market.

    The first thing [email protected] (Combined Heat & Power) will do is cut electric and gas bills by 80-90%. THAT money will be used by individuals for education, recreation, local economies, savings, investment, or higher living standards. It will no longer go to owners of oilcos and utilities controlled by a very few. This is good.

    Beyond that – why worry? Things get better if you are not cowering in FEAR about terrorism, starvation, or climate catastrophe! (i.e. NO NEWS!) Part of abundance is knowing there is plenty, and happiness is a human ambition.

    • jacob

      very well said

    • New Jobs created by technology?

      My family owned a printing company, and I can tell you nobody needs phone books anymore. All books are extinct and even p.o.p. displays are being replaced by screens.

      A hundred years ago a farmer could farm up to 10 acres. Now the same farmer can farm 200 acres and wield 300 acres worth of product due to growth product and equipment upgrades.

      Accountants are becoming obsolete as computer programs hit their jobs fairly quickly. What jobs are computers going to replace next? I am sure there are hundreds of jobs daily being lost to computers.

      So new tech equals new jobs. Let’s talk about those new jobs. Programmers may be needed at the beginning in some abundance, however in a hundred years they will need a lot less as programs have been developed and improved. Upgrading will require a smaller staff of programmers for most types of programming.

      Even this ecat will hurt jobs. It is so simple to build and can generate power in the home and car (soon enough). No electric grid will be required to be maintained. A tiny reactor that is less complicated than most dollar store items will be nade by robots or msss produced very efficiently.
      There will be no need for electrical lines / towers / plants / or even workers.

      IT workers are only around because some Internet access / hookups / wiring seems complicated atm. In 10 years there will be no need for IT pros.

      Even bus drivers could be replaced by driving software. It is already a possibility and more reliable (less breaks / whining / strikes ).

      Actors may be replaced by computer avatars….

      The governments will have 2 choices. Tax the workers more and expect a larger welfare population or hire as police/cleaners, or tax the workers more and jail the unemployables as they commit crimes to survive.

      I think abundance is possible.. I just fear that wanting a 20 hour or more paycheck in the future will just be wishful thinking.

      • GreenWin

        Good points. Twenty hour pay may be all that’s needed if energy costs plummet. Interesting analogy is ink-based printing giving way to 3-D “printing.” Essentially a new form of manufacturing. From what I’ve seen 3D printing is becoming huge and will require an entire new work force to build, maintain and manage it.

        Governments may find they, like some future jobs, are no longer needed.

  • Stephen

    I share your view…

    I think energy availability is a key issue today. In principle, anything else can be solved, provided we have enough time and energy. For instance… fresh water is a non-issue once energy is cheap and abundant… we have entire oceans to desalinate. Same with many other resources…

    I have been following the peak-oil debate for some time. I am not 100% convinced by its conclusions and I am not convinced hell is around the corner only because we -maybe- cannot easily scale up production anymore. However… my non-expert impression is that this never-ending crisys is not unrelated to the recent booming of the cost of energy.
    (I am not an economist and I am not sure I agree on everythign stated here… but I found this talk quite interesting…)

  • Robert Mockan

    Counting chickens before they hatch can be a disappointment. Remember that conventional nuclear fission using uranium has been around for over 70 years. And today, most people have been taught to feel it is too dangerous to use.

    • dsm2

      That 1st sentence IMHO sums up an extraordinary amount of what we are doing right now.
      When will we succeed with LENR ? – my guess is it could still be *at least* 10 years away before we see salable LENR devices suitable for home use & I consider myself an optimist.
      Some still has to come up with how they work. That is the biggest stumbling block to stability, scalability and reproducibility, all essential ingredients to serious commercialization.

  • Jeff

    I have been following this story since 1989, and indeed, we are still waiting for technology to appear … in fact, I’m still waiting to be convinced there’s even a story. I must be a masochist.

    • jacob

      just wait a little longer

      • Robert Mockan

        That may be proof of being a masochist, if the technology still does not appear.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      You have to be wondering why there has been a blackout from the major media. This is not the way a free press works. If the free press was working the way it should we would see courageous reporters from the major news outlets doing LENR stories. There has been a near total blackout.

      • The degree of control is much greater than I for one expected. I find it rather scary. It’s one thing suspecting that large parts of the world are micro-managed by an elite, and another seeing the reality and extent of the control.

  • Compare peace, properity, independence, health and diversity…

    to what we have now:

    fighting, scarcity, control, pollution and uniformity.

    • Robert Mockan

      All good reasons to continue searching for alternatives to the status quo. But the road to abundance has been diverted before. There was a company called “Hyperion” a few years ago that planned to market modular uranium fission reactors, suitable to provide electric power for companies and homes. They were designed to be completely enclosed and would operate for 20 years before needing to be opened and processed, to run again for another 20 years. And they were designed to be buried underground. Sight unseen and would have zero surface impact. What was interesting was that they were planning to use uranium hydride as the fuel. The compound has an elevated decomposition temperature enabling auto limiting power control by altering the neutron moderating property of the uranium hydride. So what happened to the business plans, to the product? How come they were never sold?

      After passing many deadlines for building and marketing, the company admitted that complying with the regulations imposed upon them by the NRC,
      was impossible. Not just difficult, expensive, and time consuming… but impossible. The technology was real, the promise of creating a world of abundance was real, energy independence from the power grid and centralized control of power distribution, was real. One can only wonder if the promise, was the reason it never happened. When regulations prohibit progress, one must question if regulations have another purpose, perhaps to maintain the status quo, and security for all vested interests in the status quo. LENR may be the answer… but is the answer for you and I good for vested interests in the status quo?

      • Jimr

        I followed a couple companies such as Hyperion also, a complete power generating system in a couple of van sized containers. I suspect the main problem would be security, even if buried. The cost of guarding around the clock would be a huge disadvantage.

        • Robert Mockan

          Perhaps. But using that reasoning every gas station in the country should have armed guards to prevent a thief with a bulldozer from digging up the fuel storage tanks buried underground at the gas station. Yet, not once, in recorded history of crimes, going back over a hundred years, have the fuel storage tanks been dug up (overnight??) and stolen, from a gas station.

          • dsm2

            That is a very good point. But when it comes to nuclear artifacts, am betting that US ‘homeland security’ would regard anything (even an eCat) as being potential weaponry for القاعدة‎ al-qāʿidah and that would trigger alarms & alerts all through their chain of command.



          • Jimr

            Robert, a burning or exploding gas tank does not have the prolonged affect of radiation.

          • Warthog

            Why should they dig up the tanks?? All they need is a truck with a tank and a pump. Gasoline theft is big business and getting bigger all the time.

          • Robert Mockan

            > dsm2,Jimr, Warthog…
            I suppose we can all be a little guilty of hasty generalization about why the Hyperion concept (small nuclear reactors for companies and homes) did not fly. But how are these examples of what “could” happen any different from trying to market LENR products? After all, we can all speculate about what “might” happen if one were to disconnect the safety features on an E-Cat, or worse, sell the catalyst itself that might then be used in an explosive device (even a steam explosion by heating a boiler with LENR heat where the pressure relief valve is sabotaged).

            This kind of reasoning could even lead one to suppose that since people themselves cause problems, maybe the world would be better off without them.. (oh, wait, isn’t that global population reduction?).

            So what is the answer?
            I’d be interested in other comments …

          • Robert Mockan



          • Robert Mockan


            AGW? I know it seems a stretch to make that comparison. After all, it would be just ONE exploding or burning fuel tank. But isn’t that the whole story about “keeping people safe”? Government policy is often based on the “just one is too much” scenario, with the imposition of a regulatory environment that does far more damage.

          • Robert Mockan

            > Warhog

            You know, with autonomous robots (that can function independently) just around the corner (technically speaking), when one is let loose to commit crimes, no crime will be too difficult to commit. Stealing gasoline, stealing nuclear fuel from a nuclear reactor… it will all be the same.

          • Robert Mockan

            Correction: Warhog s/b Warthog.
            Sorry about that.

          • dsm

            LOL ! – So that wasn’t just a Freudian slip 🙂

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        This is the reason I am watching Rossi and his “certification” process very closely. The easiest way for the “powers to be” to slow down or stop LENR is to create fear of “radiation poisoning”. One small, created or real “accident” will delay LENR for decades.

        • Such tactics may be inevitable. I don’t think they will be used to delay CF for decades though, but to facilitate legislation designed to move control of the technology to corporate and military hands.

  • What’sUP

    What’s up with the defkalion website?

    This account has been suspended.
    Either the domain has been overused, or the reseller ran out of resources.


    • dsm2

      It is probably quite irrelevant. We don’t know who owns it or what it was set up for, so what happens to it is at this moment, irrelevant.


      • dsm2

        It was the Defkalion home website.

        My guess then is traffic issues or some access problems.

        For 7 days 3 months back, the Dick Smith LENR prize website provider was hacked & their domain servers were pointing the DickDmith prize to a fictional cleaning service in California.

        That problem only got resolved when that provider was dropped & the site & domain names shifted to another provider where there have been no further problems. (Interestingly, the problem provider subsequently shut down their web hosting business! – I couldn’t help wondering if the DS hacking tipped the balance for them. The problem happened 3 times with higher levels of sophistication in the way the domains were hacked).

        So, the fact that defkalion’s site is not accessible today, does not mean a lot unless additional announcements tell us something significant. There are a lot of crazies out there who would think it was funny to do a DOS or other attack on any LENR advocate.


    • Omega Z


      I just Clicked on your link & it worked.

      Maybe it was under going changes as the site is completely different from what I’d seen before. But then I haven’t been to it in several months.

      It’s all about their Hyperion products…

      • What’sUP

        It’s back up.

        It looks like they added the gray box with the new statement on it.

        Maybe they should get a webmaster who knows hows how to update their website without taking it offline for long periods of time.


  • atanguy

    Well, after reading all the comments so far, most of them being enthusiastic if LENR or an equivalent product happens, I must say that I need to cool off this enthusiasm: First of all there are huge economic interests to convince to release their power on the economy and the people, let me give some of their names:
    – Oil,gas and coal producers and distributors.
    Countries like Saudi Arabia, states like Texas, companies like Exxon, people working with oil, from financial offices to the gas pump, including the auto industry…
    – Nuclear fission energy producers and distributors
    – Financial system supporting the above.
    – Military interests: Why need an army to control energy like we have had for the last 100 years?
    – Electric power companies.
    All the countries,companies and people involve will have to change their work, the way they make their living, some will lost their privileges and their social status.
    OK, these changes won’t be immediate, it will take probably several generations if they happen Also if energy is important, do not forget that there are other limited resources,like iron,copper,nickel,oil for petrochemical used in agriculture, pharmaceutical, plastics etc…, that will be necessary if we want everybody to have a decent way of living. It has been calculated that if we wanted the today 7 billions people on earth to live like an average American, we would need the resources of 3 planets. So, the ‘free energy’is not the panacea that some see to be, but only a step to more individual freedom that we will have to fight for. The paradigm won’t happen easily.

    • GreenWin

      antaguy… think about it. The present energy “pardigm” has only been around for what… a hundred years? 1.5 Generations??

      How hard do you think it will be to convince 7B people they can have better lives – if they only get rid of the selfish, greedy, temple-corruptive overseers running the show??

      • Tom h

        And how are you going to convince the people greenwin, when TPTB control all media and governments?

        • jacob

          everybody is in the dark ,there is no media coverage ,or more like a blackout right across this planet,of
          course media is controlled ,most people have a sense they are being
          lied to by their government elected
          officials somehow,but most people want to be informed and want to know exactly what is going on in the world and watch TV.
          The sad part is TV is showing what
          THEY want you to know,just like propaganda.

      • atanguy

        Coal appears in the 19century so the fossil fuel+steam engine period is about 200 years. A generation is considered as = 30 years, so we are in the fossil energy since about 7 generations. In my opinion it will take as long to mature to a LENR paradigm. I hope our specie will have enough time for survival…

  • GreenWin

    “There are those in the cosmos who command legions of angels. Their opponents are diminished by the divine.”

    • Is Andrea one of them?

      • jacob

        he has the character of one

  • chris robinson

    A few days ago there was a documentary regarding the massive, so far untouched ,Brown coal reserves we have here in Australia . Brown coal has has a far higher pollutant effect as regards greenhouse gases . However a company has stated they now have developed a technology to reduce that pollution . It stand to reason that companys such as these will fight with everything they have at their disposal to thwart the progress of LENR

    • Omega Z


      If LENR comes to market, these people will just move their money to the new tech. A Product is a Product. Profit is Profit. It’s Governments that stand to loose the most as they own 90%+ of the resources. They will have to devise new ways to Tax people. Not a task they look forward to as people in general resist New Taxes profusely.

      I do see an upside to LENR. It will make things cheaper so a much larger portion of the world can share a higher standard of living.

      Instead of trying to divide a 60 Trillion dollar World GDP among 7 Billion people, you’ll be dividing a 120 trillion dollar GDP. Quite possibly more in time.

      Here’s a world wealth Snapshot. U.S has 1/4 of World GDP.

      60 Trillion World GDP divided by 7 Billion equals about $8,500 per person.

      15 Trillion U.S. GDP divided by 300 Million equals about $50,000 per person.

      Subtracting the U.S. & their GDP leaves the other 6.7 Billion people about $6700 per person. Subtracting other developed countries brings that number per person down even more for other Countries.

      Why do others envy or hate Americans. Even the poor in the U.S are well off compared to most of the world. The U.S is like the 1% to them. Something to think about when you engage in class warfare.

      Socialism does not & never will work. It’s the nature of the beast.(PEOPLE) It indirectly promotes a reduction in productivity. Why produce when it’s given to you.

      Capitalism, though it’s got it’s problems promotes productivity. To have abundance Everyone has to produce more then they need. This is how you care for those who are physically unable to take care of themselves. Become sick or to old to produce. Kind of like a retirement account. You produce more then you need now for when you retire or are unable to work.

      LENR may help the world to produce more & provide the means to have that abundance.

      Contrary to what many here believe, LENR will take a couple decades to become integrated into society. Think about it. If the 1st E-cats hit the market the first of 2013, it will already have been 2 years since it perked it’s head up.

      Although a major step, it’s still just a baby step. Whether it’s cost beneficial to you depends on your personnel circumstances. It’s a hot water heater. What you presently heat with & the size of your home will make a big difference cost/benefit wise.

      The E-cat tech will have to be advanced & other technologies will have to be advanced to work with it economically. It will have to prove itself safety wise before higher temps & pressures allow it to be used for Electric generation in homes. It has to work in a passive unmonitored way & be convenient. People don’t like being inconvenienced. They want to flip a switch & forget it. All these capabilities will take time to develop.

      You also have the Nature of the beast.(PEOPLE) Except for new construction, People have a tendency not to replace their inefficient furnaces until it quits or the repair is so expensive they opt for replacement. As long as it works they just grip about the bills.

      The fact that you explain it operates at 40 to 50% efficient & you can replace it with 1 that works at 95% plus doesn’t have the influence you would think. Cutting heating bills by 50% is intriguing but they are very hesitant to take the leap.

      Even offering prices so low that others wouldn’t touch, working with the utility companies offering discounts & ultra low financing that would bill less then current heating costs & Tax incentives, Many people wouldn’t go for it.

      So you understand. For a couple years circumstances allowed that, The tax credit/refund would/could be applied as payment toward the Unit. The balance would be paid with the monthly Gas bill only during the heating season. It was calculated so that the Bill wouldn’t exceed what they would normally pay & many times it was less. After 3 to 4 years depending on unit cost & down payment if any would drop to the actual Gas usage as the Unit was paid for. This was practically like getting a free furnace as the your savings paid for it. 3 out of 4 people would decline the deal. People are strange critters.

      • Omega Z – very well reasoned and believable scenario (and observations). Governments will know the unpopularity of taxing LENR power, but massive taxation is the **only** way that home heating units would ever be permitted. For that matter, they will also be forced to tax corporations who use the technology, all to replace the oil/gas revenues they will lose.

        I suspect that the ‘green card’ will be played to justify gross levels of taxation, with propaganda aimed at convincing the oiks that taxes are required to pay for the changeover from fossil fuels to CF. Obviously that wouldn’t be true, but that has never stopped governments from taxing (for instance) road transport on the false premise that the income goes to road construction and maintenance.

        • jacob

          a global economic collapse could possibly help the development of the LENR implementation ,even though it would be scary for those who are rich,if an economic collapse as predicted by some top economists turns out to be true,and bankrupt governments, oil companies and utilities the worry of governments to finance their debts with ever increasing rising taxes will be over , and thereby helping the cause of LENR

          I live in Canada ,and in the province of Quebec there is a manufacturer of electric cars that are sold worldwide,but Transport Canada will not allow them on the
          road here,and it is for some economic reason.

          the chevy volt is a big joke with an all electric range of 40 miles
          60 % of electricity is produced by
          hydro power here ,the nuclear power plants according to Rossi’s
          600C. technically possible to be converted to LENR ,with enough nickel produced here to supply the world.
          The implications are the strenght of the economy here is Oil and all its spin off jobs and a strong Can Dollar based on Oil reserves

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            I think everyone can agree LENR will increase productivity. The big question is who will gain from this increased productivity. If we take a clue from the last 30 years, we have seen productivity increase, yet 90% of the population has seen their incomes stagnate or decrease. As a society we must ask why and correct it.

    • GreenWin

      Rossi, Defkalion, Brillouin, half a dozen unannounced companies are hard at commercial introduction. It is the one area that is near impossible to control.

      There are terawatts of heat under the Earth’s crust – but it’s not practical to use it when we have coal. How practical will coal be or grid electricity if we can make our own at home for $.002/kWh??

      The safety issues may be a choke point. So far they have not prevented nukes in populated areas, microwave ovens, and billions of microwave emitting cell phones.

  • It seems fairly clear that a tiny elite of very powerful people would rather like to see the ex-middle classes chained to their work benches to support their unbelievably lavish lifestyles. The overall pattern of the last 40 years seems to have been one of steady decline of real living standards in the West, heavily disguised by many shiny new toys and a facile dumbed-down ‘popular culture’.

    In the last few decades the pace of decline has increased steadily, and now it seems the gloves are more or less off. The options seem to be: ‘they’ win and we all become serfs again, or movements form to fight the process relatively peacefully, or Delacroix lives again.

    • Not sure how that ended up here! It was supposed to be a reply to Pipmon, at the other end of the thread.

      • Wrong place maybe, but very well spoken.

    • Pipmon

      Got it.
      It has occurred to me after thinking about it some more that a possible path (and I know I will be lambasted by many of the Ayn Randers out there) would be to have a GLOBAL minimum wage! Idealistic of course, but something to work towards. It would essentially be guaranteeing that anybody that works will be given sufficient to partake of the “cake”! An automatic redistribution of the world’s accumulated wealth.
      I of course acknowledge the problems at the outset and the possible need for adjustments for regional differences. It only needs to ensure equal access for all to a defined reasonable standard of living.
      My problem with the neo-cons is their blind faith in the ‘trickle-down’ model. While they have been sold the notion of accepting a trickle, someone somewhere is enjoying a flood! 😉
      And those someones have succeeded in demonizing all notions of collective action for bettering societies.

    • GreenWin

      True enough Peter. Remember though that knowledge is power and knowledge is spreading like wildfire across the internet. Perhaps I should say “new fire.” The point is the abundance message is being heard. And it uplifts the entire population.

      The pop culture does dumb us down – but only if you subscribe to it. Personally I don’t read the “News” or People Magazine… Following the introduction of LENR is a far better show!

  • georgehants

    Like to compliment everybody for a wonderful string of discussion.
    Shows the true use of the Internet when not abused by people simply causing trouble and following a closed agenda.
    My view again for all it’s faults, everything should be based on production and man hours only and all money and finance removed.
    There is plenty for all and more for the people who do more for society in many ways but no super rich people and every youngster stars again at the bottom only being rewarded for work for society (with plenty of leeway for what ever that means.)
    Silly example but if there where no money the M25 would empty overnight.
    No bills for anybody to worry about, no financial boom’s or bust as production always stays the same and every technology breakthrough means more people out of work to enjoy life or work to help others.

  • andreiko

    De grootmeester speelt met de massa en niet andersom besef dat Dr Rossi een”” grootmeester”” is ,die zich
    niet door een dilettant laat sturen.

    • For believers and sceptics alike, Rossi knows essentially more than we the masses. So he has the initiative. Not for the fainthearted; but he is clearly not.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    May 19th, 2012 at 5:10 PM
    Dear Franco:
    We are working with good stability at 600 Celsius degrees. This, if confirmed by the next tests, clearly opens all the possible doors.
    Warm Regards,
    p.s. Today, Saturday May 19th,right now, 6.10 p.m. in Miami, I am working at 600 Celsius with the new E-Cat

    • Frank

      Saverio Costa
      May 19th, 2012 at 11:31 AM
      Dear Mr Rossi,
      any news from the tests conducted by the universities?
      Good luck for the future.

      Andrea Rossi
      May 19th, 2012 at 5:15 PM
      Dear Saverio Costa:
      All the tests conducted have been published. No further tests have been conducted since October 28th.
      Warm Regards,

      Just remember: In the January interviews (see concerning the independent validation of the ecat Rossi said “We are organizing a work with two universities …”

      • Jim

        Keep in mind that his native language isn’t English, and he’s had trouble with the language before. You can’t really dismiss what he says due to a single quote that could easily havebeen other than he meant.

        He may have simply meant that no further “public” tests have been conducted since Oct 28th.

  • Jed Rothwell

    Do not judge Rossi by the standards of academic science. That’s the biggest mistake people make. Judge him instead by the standards of software
    companies in the go-go 1980s, or railroad financing circa 1870 during the Credit Mobilier scandal. Back then those industries were in the Wild West
    (figuratively and literally) where no rules applied. Vaporware, rumors, sleight-of-hand tricks, indirection, misdirection and corruption were
    pervasive. It was an anything-goes, law-of-the-jungle atmosphere. I gather the Italian business world is like that now, and always has been. That is
    where Rossi comes from.

    • So, are you saying he is a con-artist. It rather sounds that way.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Jed: Good analogy……he is not a con artist, he is a free wheeling inventor/entrepreneur and he has a tiger by the tail.

    • dsm


      Do you have any thoughts on how Rossi got into the mess he did with DGT (having ok’d with Prof Stremmenos to go start a Greek business) & then how they appear to have got away with what they claimed they did (clone eCat core) ?

      I can’t conceive of how they could have done what they did if everything was kosher in regard to the original business model.

      I can less imagine how they could sustain what they did in any international court, in the long term, allowing for their ‘admissions’ re cloning an eCat ?.


  • Andrew Macleod

    I have high hopes for LENR. However I don’t think It’s going to revolutionize the world save for some major catylizing event. Products and services are not going to drop significantly in cost. Business and manufactures are just going to increase their bottom line. The rich will get richer while the poor get poorer. Economic equality might happen but not in my lifetime.

    The new science and technology that going to come from “energy abundance” will be huge. It will be avaiable to the elite first and slowly filter down to us lowly plebs as it always has.

    • Barry

      Come on Andrew, There has to be some hope for us lowly plebs. Maybe its a cup half full or a cup half empty thing type of thing. Just look at the difference the internet has made in the last few years. Like minds are interconnecting all over the world. Very exciting. When I read about the Pirelli Tech school, I learned I could go onto Google translate. I thought “I can now communicate with the Italians, Japanese, the Chinese. (Even people from England!” …sorry I couldn’t resist.)
      Personally, I think the world is wising up and when it does it will liberate itself from old controlling forms. Take care, Barry

      • Andrew Macleod

        I agree the Internet has brought a great change to our world and will continue to do so for a great many years, the change happened so fast due to its open sourced nature. Open sourcing allows great growth and improvement. When something gets locked down with patents it stagnents growth and improvement. Albeit more money is made with patents. I’m not saying that Rossi is wrong in his approach, just that he has taken the less noble path.

        • Barry

          I know what you mean. If A. Rossi has repeatable science, I wish he would take the noble path as well. There’s having a dump truck full of money and there is abundance. Two different things.

  • dfnj

    If it is too good to be true then it probably isn’t. I heard a very good theory as to why Rossi exists. Rossi is financed by big-oil so governments think a solution to peak oil is just around the corner preventing big money projects in existing alternative energy technology.

    Personally, I hope E-cat turns out to be true. I think Rossi would be better served getting independent scientific verification now rather than later. He should have faith in the people of the World to reward him beyond his imagination. How much money does he want? By the time he can enjoy it he will be dead at the rate he is going.

    • GreenWin

      Heh heh… Written like a well paid troll!

    • Rockyspoon

      Rossi won’t need “independent scientific verification” now or in the future provided he can sell E-Cat units both large and small. The fact that he has five other companies competing with him debunks your theory that it’s all a cover perpetrated by “Big Oil”. (I’ve heard a lot of nefarious schemes attribted to Big Oil, but this one makes the least sense–unless you think governments are in the business of destroying their economies.)

  • GreenWin

    Since this story is about energy abundance – it is enlightening to listen to Peter Diamandis’ TED talk:

    The beginning is especially telling as it shows the the filth the media dumps on us daily. At around 8:00 Peter discusses the drop in solar costs. e.g. $.06/kWh in sunbelt by end of decade. There is no mention of CF – it is apparently “classified unholy” in this domain.

    The facts remain we have myriad energy resources – many are rather simple technologies. As for jobs and job losses – we have heard doom predicted for centuries. Yet somehow standard of living continues to increase. Will some sectors suffer? Like horse and buggy, hard copy printing and film-based photography?

    Should we go back to the good ole days dragging stuff before some guy invented the wheel?

  • If we could tell to a person of the 70’s about the current Internet revolution it would be hard for him to believe it … The humanity will have the abundance revolution not only in energy but also in any other material and immaterial aspects – 3D printing, nanotechnology, the ever pervasive power of IT, LENR and transmutation … and a whole set of technologies …