Italian Researchers Call for Intervention in LENR Research Activity

‘According to Italian web site, a scholar claiming that nuclear reactions could be taking place beneath the surface of earth has attracted negative attention from many in the Italian scientific community. Alberto Carpinteri, president of the National Institute of Metrological Research (INRIM) gave a presentation at the recent “Atom Unexplored” conference held in Turin on May 4th, 2012 entitled “Piezonuclear Fission Reactions in Rocks: Evidences from Microchemical Analysis, Neutron Emission, and Geological Transformation” in which he argues that low energy nuclear reactions could be responsible for much geological activity in the earth’s crust. (see video below)

It seems that Carpinteri’s position has been quite controversial. From the webmasterpoint article (Google translated):

To put the brake on possible developments and applications of these reactions are more than 750 Italian researchers have called for the intervention of the Ministry of Education, University and Research (the INRIM is a public research supervised by MIUR) to “see if they correspond to true statements that you intend to put as a priority activity INRIM the study of reactions piezonuclear “. In their view, these studies are not reliable and we would be facing a situation “very worrying because it is located outside the tradition of the scientific method and is likely to bring discredit on the whole system of Italian research in addition to producing a waste of human resources and Financial.

The objection here seems to be the use of public funds in the study of a phenomenon (LENR) that is considered off limits as a subject of serious scientific research — certainly not the first time we have seen this.

You can see professor Carpinteri’s presentation below.

Piezonuclear Fission Reactions in Rocks: Evidences from Microchemical Analysis, Neutron Emission, and Geological Transformation from Nikola Duper on Vimeo.

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  • andreiko

    De LENR begint te pruttelen LOL.

    • Filip

      LOL is engels,
      ter info.

  • Barry

    Frank, This is starting to sound like your book “The secret Power Beneath”. You sure that was fiction?

    • admin

      Hi Barry — remember: “This is a work of fiction. Names, characters and incidents are products of the author’s imagination and should not be construed as being real. Any resemblance to actual events, or people is entirely coincidental.”

      • Barry

        All I know is if they find a nuclear energy source beneath the mountains of Norway, I’m going to get a bit suspicious.

  • I viewed the Carpinteri presentation when the conference took place. I understood that he tried to explain some observed crustal elemental abundances by claimed modification by LENR over Earth’s history. But energetics rule out such a proposal. If LENR would be so widespread in the crust that it would have had a major effect on crustal element abundances over 5 billion years, the energy liberated would have been so large as to keep Earth in glowing state, like a brown dwarf star. The observed geothermal heat flux is only about 0.1 watt per square metre. While LENR occurring inside earth perhaps cannot be excluded as being partly responsible for the flux, it can be excluded with certainty that such process would have had the possibility to change the element abundances in a major way. (Or else one must start speculating about some non energy producing low energy nuclear reactions, NEPLENR…)

    • Don Witcher

      The first piezonuclear reaction that Carpinteri describes was iron fission into aluminum as a result of compression of a Phengite sample. Thats an endothermic nuclear reaction as are most of the planetary LENR processes that Carpinteri is Hypothesizing. The energy for these processes would seem to be coming from the gravitational collapse of planetary material. LENR reactions are not necessarily exothermic.

      Seems to me that the AtomUnexplored symposium was the initial shoot out between the High Energy Physics establishment which gets most of the funding and is stifeling research into Low Energy Nuclear Research to protect their gravy trains. Nothing new. Follow the money.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah Don. As you pointed out, the reaction is indeed endothermic. It is interesting that neutrons are being formed but I think the mechanism is what they are questioning. . See the 00:30 mark (Bill Collis, a cold fusion guy, is asking the question).

        Fe(56)> 2Al(27) + 2n would require 42.3 MeV of energy to take place!

        Mass of:
        Fe(56) is 55.934942 amu
        Al(27) is 26.9815384 amu
        n is 1.008664924 amu

        2( 26.9815384) + 2 (1.008664924) – 55.934942 = 0.045464648 amu

        0.0454646448 amu x 931 MeV/amu = 42.3 MeV (if I got it right)

        Can anyone think of another mechanism that would generate neutrons?

        • lcd

          Alan good point but none of the LENR nuclear reactions seem to make any sense, that’s why “nobody” believes them.

          Also Assuming the isotopes are correct your within a neutron of being exothermic.

  • Jason

    I wonder if he is heavily invested in traditional alternate energy.

  • John

    I don’t think it matters whether there is research or not. If Rossi can show the goods, then research will be abundant. If not, then LENR will be shunned for a decade or two. Like last time.

    *Team Skeptic*

    • The world doesn’t rest on Rossi’s shoulders. Defkalion, Brillouin and Blacklight are all in the game. For LENR to return to the underground all three of these and any dark horses all have to fail.

    • lcd

      Jason if the research ends up being started because of Rossi it will show the rediculousness of such a process where a commercial product spurs public research. It should be the other way around.

      • You’ve no clue.

        • lcd

          Okay Zed give me something to defend. There are examples of commercial products spurring research by far though its the other way around. Adittionaly the point I was trying to make was that its rediculous that the scientific community at large may fail to acknowledge something you may buy commercially. If it gets to that point.

  • pipmon

    Going from memory here, but I seem to recall that Carpinteri’s presentation was given as being his speculation on LENR being a possible mechanism that might account for established observations on the distribution and ratios of the major elements in the Earth’s crust. (And changes to these at certain epochs, + certain anomalous readings of radiation levels during earthquakes)
    His speculations (right or wrong) should not concern anyone greatly, as long as the stated observations he cites are not in dispute.
    If that were the case then of course this brouhaha would be understandable. Otherwise….
    Also, without claiming any great knowledge of the nuclear processes involved and the energies generated, since this process is to have been distributed over a few billion years while the Earth is generally considered to have been very hot and violent, I don’t think it to be too much of a stretch to believe that such processes might have occurred.

    • pipmon

      Whoops, misplaced here. Meant as a reply to Pekka Janhunen’s comment below.

  • Ben

    A public fight might not be a bad thing. Controversy usually brings an issue more into public view, and the pro-LENR have evidence to back up the idea that we should invest public money into LENR research. I’m not thinking of Rossi here, but the academic scientists who have been slogging away in the shadows for the last 20 years. Their day in the sunshine is coming soon.

    I still don’t know what to make of Rossi (and DGT) and his (and their) claims. I am very hopeful his inventions are real, but I’m not convinced. If his inventions are real, then I respect his decision to go about it in a not terribly convincing manner. If Rossi were much more convincing to all of us, the Powers That Be would likely figure out a way to stop what he’s doing. If his inventions are real, then for the present time it’s probably better that he sometimes looks shady, sometimes crazy.

  • Robert Mockan

    Piezoelectric enabled fusion has been demonstrated in the lab. And might explain the abundance of helium trapped in natural gas wells. It would be interesting to study the possibility and determine how much, if any, of the helium from natural gas wells comes from

    • John

      The presence of helium is due to radioactive decay of heavy elements through the release of alpha particles. Alpha particles are helium nuclei.

    • How would you be able to distinguish helium release by fission vs. that released from a LENR reaction? More basic research into LENR is needed. If it leads to some other characteristic of LENR found in the out-gassing and can’t be explained otherwise…well then…

      • GreenWin

        He4… presumably would only appear by fusion.

  • GreenWin

    Utter BS – a vain attempt by science priesthood to prevent academia from teaching facts about LENR and energy abundance.

    Italian “Report 41″ – a 2002 study of cold fusion at the very HIGHEST levels of government. Ordered by Dr. Carlo Rubia a Nobel laureate, Director General of CERN (world’s most prestigious science center) and Chair of ENEA Energy and Environment Agency – a pillar of scientific achievement.

    But when the results of the 36 month study demonstrated hard evidence of cold fusion’s nuclear origins, Dr. Rubia went silent. He refused to support the study HE ordered! Taxpayer money wasted. Unfortunately a man who has been compromised, threatened, corrupted.

    NOTE: the original Report contained the researchers’ acknowledgment of Dr. Rubia’s role in initiating the study. Today the link below has been scrubbed of any mention of Dr. Rubia – censors cynical attempt to rewrite history.

    However the Italian Television RAI story provides evidence of Dr. Rubia’s role and the cover up of Report 41 submitted and rejected by 41 “science” journals.–eI

    There is no conspiracy against cold fusion – just a lot of old school priests who want it buried.

    • georgehants

      From JoNP.
      “Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.” Robert A. Heinlein

  • contrast

    Helium in natural gas is a product of radioactive decay of heavy elements like uranium and thorium. No need to look for exotic explanations.

    • contrast

      This was a reply to Robert Mockan…

    • georgehants

      You mean like Cold Fusion does not exist, so no need to look for explanations.
      Well done.

      • contrast

        All I mean is that formation of helium in earth’s crust is a well understood process, which has nothing to do with cold fusion, whether it exists or not.
        On the other hand, how would CF / LENR occur naturally, if any researcher who ever claimed it, used electricity to run the process?

        • georgehants

          You are clearly giving an “expert opinion”, so now the whole of science can close down and just come to you for the answers to everything.

          • Filip

            Sorry but that’s not fair.

    • Robert Mockan

      If helium is also coming from LENR, it would not be an exotic process. I said in my post, “..It would be interesting to study the possibility and determine how much, if any, of the helium from natural gas wells comes from LENR.”

      Answering questions is why science is exciting. Of course when funds are limited that can cramp research efforts.

  • > is likely to bring discredit on the whole system of Italian research

    It will only bring discredit to the system if money is provided before the proof is made rather than after the fact (X-Prize style).

    The way the LENR proponents are currently approaching the government to ask for money is doomed to fail.

    • georgehants

      Charles, how does one do the research to find the TRUTH without some money.

      • No need for research. There are lots of guys out there claiming COP 6 or COP 10 or 20 or better. Give the first guy who comes along and can prove a COP of 1.1+ a reward of $1 billion tax dollars. It will be the best money the government ever spent. It will instantly get rid of the frauds. At NASA they used to have a thing called the one day test. 26 hours > 24. Prove the thing works for 26 hours and the money is yours.

        • georgehants

          You said —
          “It will only bring discredit to the system if money is provided before the proof”
          –And I ask again, how can research be done to find the “Proof” without some money.

        • GreenWin

          Thing is Chuck, contests, prizes, (dick smith) Amazing Randi-type stunts want to control the test procedure. Rossi and other ventures don't want to give their IP away like that. A almost-clever ruse, but Miley, Ahern, Focardi, Piantelli, Celani, McKubre, NASA, Defkalion etc. are not going to enter your science fair and jeopardize proprietary property.

          They don't need to. They don't need you. You and your fellow skeptos wish they did. Dream on.

    • GreenWin

      Chuck, that’s why guv’ment gets left out, and the best and brightest look for better opportunities. LENR currently has a couple dozen privately funded commercial ventures. BTW, guv’mnt funds are not earned by anyone in guv’mnt – they are tax dollars collected from the people – who in the U.S. ARE by law the guv’mnt.

  • georgehants

    There can be as many opinions as one likes “expert” or otherwise and everyone of them is meaningless,only open-minded, unbiased research will find the Truth.
    Anybody who thinks that opinion has any bearing other than to air one’s personal view, as with a bet on a horse race, is a disgrace to science.

    • krack

      Yes, opinions are like a$$holes – everyone has one.

  • georgehants

    Another subject that dumb “experts” delayed for years by preaching their Dogma, that the Wave-function will always collapse immediately at room temperatures etc.

    Quantum memory beats one second record.

  • vbasic

    I misinterpreted this article as the headline is misleading. (I first thought it meant the scientists thought LENR was dangerous.)
    So because these other Italian scientists DON’T believe in LENR, they want to stop research in whether LENR can occur naturally? Horrible. No wonder people think there are conspiracies to stop LENR research.

  • Karl

    This heat battery idea might be useful for the innovative in the coming age of anomalous heat generation.

    • It does look interesting. One of the problems with Rossi’s purported home heater is the difficulty of starting and stopping it, and some kind of thermal store would be essential. I’m not sure how this zeolite system compares with a simple hot water storage tank though, as no figures are given.

      • GreenWin

        Peter, it is interesting to note that Brillouin seems to use an acoustic “Q” wave to compress their lattice. This could provide a modulating effect on the reaction as NASites are deformed, stimulating or quenching the reaction.

  • georgehants

    Science News
    From universities, journals, and other research organizations
    Environmental Benefit of Biofuels Is Overestimated, New Study Reveals
    ScienceDaily (June 8, 2012) — Two scientists are challenging the currently accepted norms of biofuel production. A recent commentary published in GCB Bioenergy reveals that calculations of greenhouse gas (GHGs) emissions from bioenergy production are neglecting crucial information that has led to the overestimation of the benefits of biofuels compared to fossil fuels.

  • Francesco CH

    Basically, it is a chapter of the “Star Wars” saga between anti-LERN Italian scientists and pro-LERN Italian scientists.

    He he he… Anti-LERN Italian scientists are pissed off because pro-LERN Italian scientists are obtaining results and funds, while anti-LERN Italian scientists are obtaining neither results nor funds.

    So, it is more a matter of envy than of science.

    • GreenWin

      Indeed Francesco – so much of the old school anger is built upon their jealousy. At the heart of this clan is a deep reluctance to share. They prefer to hoard, and hide, and keep hidden the little treasures of knowledge they have stumbled upon.

      But this is not how the universe operates. It is vast and full of riches for all people who enlighten themselves. Italy’s Nobel laureate Dr. Carlo Rubia knows full well LENR is real fusion producing He4. But even Rubia – Chairman of the ENEA (Energy Dept) – was gagged and likely threatened were he to publish the positive results.

      These are more than simple acts of envy – they are crimes. For how many sick and suffering could be helped by low cost, abundant energy? Greed. Envy. Jealousy. The watchwords of the skeptopath and self-appointed “priests” of knowledge. All Italians should view this REI video on “REPORT 41.”–eI

      • Gerrit

        ENEA has published a book about cold fusion in 2009. The president of ENEA states in the foreword

        “In other words, two government programs – carried out in close interaction and with check of results – have proved the existence of this phenomenon in terms that are not ascribable to a chemical process. This must be considered a starting point. The results achieved so far represent an obligation to continue on the scientific path already started with the aim of achieving a complete definition of the studied phenomenon.”

        • GreenWin

          Fascinating this publication confirming the F&P Effect not only at ENEA Frascati labs, but also at US-based Energetics LTD, SRI Intl., Naval Research Lab, and DARPA. Also mentioned are Office Naval Research Global, Brookhaven NL and Materials Branch NRI.

          Looks like LENR has been an accepted government (US – Italian) science for at least ten years.

          Good to see this data coming forward. It pretty well puts the opposition to sleep and proves with more certainty that the Italian entrepreneurs have been financed and assisted by government. Thereby restoring a certain element of trust in some areas.

    • Robert Mockan

      The low eyebrows have penis envy.
      The middle eyebrows have money envy.
      The high eyebrows have brain envy.

      Definitely more a matter of envy than of science.

      • GreenWin

        Is it eyebrows or hairline?

  • Oh, nooooo! If these fracto-fusionists and such are allowed to draw funding it will cut into mine…oh, nooooo! If such people continue to publish such ideas they might usurp the lime-light…oh, nooooo! If these new ideas take hold they might displace my pet theories…oh, nooooo! just as plate-tectonic theory displaced catastrophism…oh, nooooo! If it turns out that there is something to fracto-fusion and it explains the earth’s core output, it would dovetail very nicely with Rossi’s invention. I am still at this late date, still looking askance at what Rossi has seemingly stumbled upon. Despite the rough “evidence” of his demonstrations that the rational engineer in me says is good enough, I await confirming evidence. He showed it to me once, then went away.

  • Kim

    Bankers and free energy.

    They both can not exist together.

    For a little while they will, but for the duration

    Its a pretty simple formula.

    Its the crux of this entire affair.


  • Alan DeAngelis

    Could neutrons be formed in the following reactions?

    O(16) + O(18) > S(32) + 2n 4.35 MeV

    O(16) + O(18) > S(33) + n 13.00 MeV

    O(16) + O(17) > S(32) + n 12.4 MeV

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Are there any positrons?

      2 O(16) > S(31) + n 1.5 MeV

      S(31) > P31 + positron

  • edog

    Has Roosi made his important announcement yet???
    Have I missed it???

    All this secrecy and delays.. makes me want not want to purchase a Roosi eCat… if it ever eventuates.

    Just out of sheer spite, I think I would hold off and buy a cheaper Chinese copy of the “eCat” when they come out soon after.

    Wonder what they will call it??

    The eMao?

  • GreenWin

    Publications by the Italian ENEA (dept Energy) claim their collaboration with U.S. Naval Research Lab, Energetics Ltd, SRI Intl., and DARPA have consistently replicated D+D in Pd and anomalous heat. According to the ENEA “History of cold Fusion” the Italian government and the U.S. government have collaborated on cold fusion research for more than ten years. Also mentioned are Office Naval Research Global, Brookhaven NL and Materials Branch NRI.

    Thus, complaints by Italian “academics” need be directed not just to Carpinteri, but the government run ENEA.

    Good to see this data coming forward. It pretty well puts the opposition to sleep and proves with more certainty that the Italian entrepreneurs have been financed and assisted by government. Thereby restoring a certain element of trust in some areas.

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  • Roger Bird

    If a scientist stridently opposes new research in a field he/she is only marginally familiar with, chances are that the research is goring someone ox and may very well prove to have value.

  • claude

    ma cosa mi tocca leggere ….ma e’ cosi’ meschino il mondo della ricerca…? meno male che rossi si e’ spostato in america e senza finanziamenti pubblici italiani…e poi si sta confonddendo il piezo nucleare con le reazioni a bassa energia tra metallo e idrogeno…si accampano scuse come i terremoti per bloccare ricerche??? ma questa e’ una comunita’ scientifica o siamo tornati all’inquisizione?? via a calci nel sedere ..