New Poll: Who Will Produce First Mass Market LENR Product?

Just for a bit of fun I have added a new poll today. The question is, which company will be the first to produce a mass market LENR product? So this does not include creating a working prototype, or a custom built machine (Rossi says he is already doing this with his 1 MW plant). I am meaning a product that would be produced on a mass manufactured scale.

If there is another company that you think should be included as an option on the poll, let me know. You will see the poll in the panel on the right hand side of the site. If you want to explain your selection, put it in the comments below.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    I place my bet on Defkalion GT.

  • jacob

    I think E-CAT, but we are not being informed enough to know,so it is just a guess.

  • georgehants

    I bet that no main-line academic university comes out with a working product this century.
    After paying all their “opinion experts” there is nothing left for research.

    • Andrew Macleod


  • Andrew Macleod

    I voted Rossi. This is based on information that has been given. Safety cert is the biggest hurtle and Rossi has the lead I think. DGT will never bring a product to market because they Licence others to produce.

    • tricky answer 😉
      anyway if you read their announce, they will manufacture their own reactor in Greece for Greek market…

      about Rossi, I think that it is possible he miss the manufacturing of many reactor, but license his technology to serious people. anyway he seems staffed by a serious consortium…

  • artefact

    There is an article from Hank Mills with some news:

    • georgehants

      Thanks artefact, if all true then wonderful things coming.

      • Roger Bird

        If not true, then we are all going to feel like certified, verified fools.

    • If Rossi’s new reactor is being tested off-load, the output must be relatively small in the ‘throttled back’ mode (but still far more than any known competitors other than – possibly – DGT). Presumably the reactors would be at a low red heat, but even so only a kilowatt or so could be dissipated as infrared radiation, depending on size/form. Obviously if the tests are well conducted this will prove that AR is nearly there, but to extract useable amounts of heat from a small object, a liquid coolant must be used. (Yes, I do want jam on it!).

      If the claimed tests are as hinted, then Rossi is probably a year or less away from a commercial boiler using the new stable system, so he must still be the #1 contender. We can safely forget any technology that cannot produce megawatt outputs, or which makes electrical power directly, for all the reasons Robert Mockan outlined earlier. Only industry-controlled large scale units that can replace fossil fuel burners will be permitted to become available, at least in the ‘West’.

      • GreenWin

        Peter, I disagree with both you and Robert re equipment size and output. Robert claims it is only the catalyst that makes these valuable. Certainly true for some high end applications. But the Rome Pirelli High School Athanor patent – guarantees their cell and catalyst will be totally Open Source. As such the “catalyst” is already in the public domain. Anyone can build the Athanor cell.

        Who are these people who will prevent a thousand small companies from making their own version of e-cat? I know the oilcos have leverage – but even the illuminati is outclassed by the supporters of this project. Outclassed, meaning there are better people supporting the new energy paradigm than the tired old school.

        • GreenWin


        • GW, the one chance that TPTB has to control all CF type technologies is the ‘safety’ issue, faked if necessary. If for instance a couple of experimenters (maybe those who are close to releasing products) were to be blown up, and if ‘radiation’ was found at the site of the ‘accident’ then the whole thing could be whisked into the safe control zone occupied by the means to create nuclear fission. That would mean licensing, which would mean special forces teams kicking in doors.

          Assorted parties will become increasingly desperate to gain this control, the nearer we get to release of viable devices, and I predict that things may become nasty as a result. If this strategy fails, then ‘we the people’ will have our prize of clean energy, but almost certainly subject to metering, regulation and massive taxation.

          Paranoid Pete.

          • Omega Z


            The Government can always increase Corporate taxes. These are all passed on to the Consumer.

            In simple terms. Product $1.Taxes $1. Corporate Profit. 10% Price of product out the door $2.20. Some adjustments may be made for lower sales.

            30% or 80% corporate tax, the consumer pays it. Corporations know this. It has little if any affect to net profit. The only reason they bulk at higher Corporate taxes is if they have to compete against Corporations from countries with a lower corporate tax rate. If their to high, they pack up & move to another country with a lower corporate tax. This actually happens from State to State with the State Corporate taxes also.

            Besides the consumer paying more, there’s another group that also pay a price. Lower sales volume usually leads to less jobs. Layoffs.

            Also, the States & Locals make more in sales tax on higher priced products.

            I see these as backdoor slight of hand taxes on the people who don’t realize how it works.

            That’s most people. Their just happy thinking the Corporations just got hammered. Little do they know…

            This makes Government look good. Corporations take the heat.

          • jacob

            good point

          • Possibly. But that would only allow governments to take a slice of capital and renewables sales, and I think they’d be looking for ‘usage’ taxes as well, to replace their tax income from liquid fuels and gas.

            The outcome will probably be the enforced provision of power metering on any/all LENR products, so both energy corporates and governments can get a cut of all energy produced and used, just as they do for fossil fuels. It would not be hard for politicians to dream up some kind of ‘green’ justification, such as the pretense that the tax is needed to allow world-wide conversion to LENR to proceed.

        • GreenWin

          Peter, this may sound a bit far-fetched but I think the energy paradigm switch includes a new economic component. Actually not that new. We have only had “energy taxes” for the last century. Prior to that people bought wood, oil, coal at fixed cost – no taxes.

          With the invention of telegraph and central electric power – government and corporate saw a cash cow. “Metering” electric current created a huge utility industry and government saw a juicy new source of income.

          LENR returns us to independent energy production like a century ago. Government may claim they need taxes to pay for electrification projects – but it’s a hard sell. Part of de-centralizing energy is belt tightening. Guv badly needs a diet. As does corporate. That’s in part what is so threatening about new energy.

          BTW, you are correct about fake explosions. They have already assigned a veteran disinfo professional kemo to whip up that fear. But that story is totally unsupported by the facts. It will shake out like microwave ovens and cell phone dangers. People prefer convenience and lower energy bills.

          But just in case, I’ll be hiding my e-cat in the attic – disguised as a set of old encyclopedias. If the Energy Gestapo search up there, they’ll never see it;)

          • jacob

            you are not far off the mark,Astral

          • jacob

            Oh door to door search is not out of the question,I have been thinking about that already,I was thinking of a underground bunker, for not just the free energy generator but also food storage and room foe me and my family.Not much in the mood fighting for that last can of corn when the economy crashes and no food on the shelves

  • daniel maris

    Well Rossi is the only one to have given convincing documented demonstrations of the technology at the sort of levels of output required (even though some say they were scam trials). So in the absence of other evidence, I think it has to be Rossi.

    I certainly hope it is, if only to see the sneers wiped off the faces of the sceptical community. It will also, I think, mean we see a huge freeing up of our notion of what science is and put a stop the tyranny of peer review.

    As always, we wait and scan the horizon.

    • Rossi have give data, but also very bad behavioral data.
      Defkalion, the opposite, no data, but very credible proof they are serious and master the technology, the details needed for industrialization.

      BLP and Brillouin have given behavioral proof they have nothing concrete yet.
      Mitsubishi, Toyota, Piantelli have given nothing, meaning that unlike BLT and Brillouin it is possible they have something concrete.

      for me the first will probably be Defkalion, then Rossi (despite is awkward lies, he own something, and is better advised now), then quickly the copycat from heavy industry will catch the bandwagon, the Japanese…

      I’m afraid the losers will be the small followers like Brillouin and Piantelli… BLP make me feel negative for strange reason that I cannot understand myself, but I might be wrong.

      • GreenWin

        “Rossi have give data, but also very bad behavioral data.”

        Pythagoras 575-500 BC, invented his own religion which forbid swallows nests, eating beans, and stirring fire without iron.

        Lord Byron, English Poet, 1788-1824 kept a pet bear in his dorm room at Cambridge, and took it for regular walks on campus.

        Tycho Brahe, Danish Astronomer, 1546-1601 employed a dwarf who he made dress as a clown and sit under the table at dinner. He might have made him dress as a snake.

        Michelangelo, Italian Renaissance Painter, 1475-1564, rarely bathed and slept with clothes and shoes on. He rarely spoke, when he did he walked away mid-sentence. Widely believed autistic.

        Nikola Tesla, Physicist & Engineer, 1856-1943, afflicted with OCD, germophobe, refused to touch round objects or anything with a speck of dirt.

        Empedocles, Greek Scientist & Philosopher, 490-430 B.C. discovered the earth was a sphere, centrifugal force, light speed. He believed he was a god and jumped into a live volcano to prove it.

        It is doubtful anyone of us or others should judge Rossi or any man for his “behavior.” Unless of course he that judges has never acted oddly himself.

      • BigWilly

        What very credible proof has Defkalion supplied? I am not aware of any kind of proof.


  • artefact

    Plasmerg says:
    “..The 2 Cylinder and the 6 cylinder opposed engines. So these are the “standard” first engines that are coming off manufacturing lines NOW and will be available by September.”

    But I guess Rossi. He had the first “LENR+” device and I think he will do all possible to have also the first devices on the mass market. Quickly followed by Defkalion.

    • Even a small engine needs safety certification these days, and one that operates on an unknown (to science) principle wouldn’t get it. That is a very simple route for preventing the emergence of these engines, even if Rohner is for once telling the truth. Maybe he could flog ’em in India, but I doubt he could get an export license unless he moves his manufacturing base outside the US sphere of influence.

      • jacob

        dress them up like regular V8 engines complete with fake exhaust and fake air cleaner ,got to able to pass to motor vehicle inspection,so it needs a small gas burner to have some emissions,emissions have to be BETWEEN a certain level to pass ,no emissions is not an option to pass inspection.

  • Al D

    I voted for Rossi. Blacklight has the simplest technology and would seem to need the fewest resources for production of electricity. A plus is do it yourself refueling. However, they don’t seem to have a production plan.
    Brillouin is using similar technology to Rossi’s but they have no production plans, only licensing.

  • techmate

    The first one who is so confident that he has such a device that it will be independently tested by many independent testing labs! And will be beyond refute.
    Once it is irrefutably proven, investors, customers and the world wide news media will report incessantly about the success of said device! The ticker tape parades will rain down in every city of every capital in the world!
    The devices will be sold and everyone will reap the benefits!

    • Roger Bird

      Except the pathoskeptics who will go off into a corner and eat human excrement and die.

  • Mitsubishi/Toyota should be included and I’d vote for Mitsubishi.

    Andrea Rossi is 1 guy working with limited funds. This goes for Piantelli, Miley, and a few more. I do realize some have started fundraising.

    We know Mitsubishi had their LENR results confirmed with Toyota back at the CERN presentation and I am not about to write off the Japanese to beat us to market with a breakthrough technology.

    Even if Andrea Rossi was ahead a few years ago he has done nothing to prove it, and if he ever went to court to say he was first it would just be a lot of smoke blowing.

    I liked Blacklight until I realized that they say they have completed a new technology every few years and then do nothing. This is far from the first time they have issued a press release with verified technology from third parties. It is sad because their technology looks so amazing. Imagine electricity without need for a generator?

    Defkalion has NEVER EVER even had 1 single person who can verify they have EVER EVER even made a single product. They once openly lied saying they were testing hundreds of ecats (check their forums), and once openly lied about their timetable.
    Defkalion stated they would “shock the world” within 2 weeks and 16 days later they released a Fake Spec Sheet (Does anybody actually believe it was real?). Anybody with 2 hours and a word processor could put together an equally impressive spec sheet. It even had its share of typos. I think my teenage son could have done a better job at writing it. It also came with a fuzzy photo of a green machine they claim is an ecat. Sterling Allen (the only living soul to ever testify to seeing a defkalion product saw this thing.) They also had a computer mock up.
    Defkalion is nothing but Yabber Yabber hoping Andrea Rossi will panic and take them back. Everything they have done is designed to feign production and could be done by anybody with a few website design skills and some time to kill.
    Claim a product nobody sees.
    Hire a location with a Defkalion sign.
    Make a fake Spec sheet.
    Answer questions on a forum with false answers.
    stop forum when facade seems to crumble.
    Pretend to hire people by placing ads on their website.
    I have no faith in Defkalion or Blacklight.

    If not the Japanese then I’d vote Andrea Rossi.

    • Jimr

      I agree it could very well be a company such as Mitsubishi or any of at least six to eight other large corporations that we are not aware of doing research on this, even military programs involved. The average large corp. would not announce results until they have at least a successful working model, not something that has worked ok for a couple of weeks.

    • BigWilly

      Nice write up on Defkalion Kwilh. I thouroughly enjoyed the read.


      • GreenWin

        Damn. He makes Defkalion look like a disinfo op!

    • psi


      Some serious analysis, but I’m not quite as down as Defk. as you are. Its hard for me to reconcile your portrait with the level of established Greek players who are involved in this. I don’t know what those people would have to gain by promoting a technology that was wholly imaginary. That’s not to say that it functions the way they need it to, which evidence suggests they could not at least during the last round of testing with no released results. But all of these guys and gals are trying to hit a moving target and I’m sure its easy for them, even those of total honesty, to get ahead of themselves and start taking about something that’s on the drawing board as if it actually already exists. I suspect that may be more where Defkalion is. I voted for Rossi as the most likely to win this race but I feel very energized by the wide range of serious inventors and scientists who are collectively leading this revolution forward.

  • joe j

    There will never be any such product on the market, most likely ever. One cannot cheat the laws of thermodynamics with some left over plumbing supplies in your basement.

    • Robert Mockan

      Who said Rossi used left over plumbing supplies? I’m certain at least some of the pictures from Rossi and Defkalion show new plumbing supplies! (But that Defkalion spark plug was definitely used).

      • psi

        My question exactly. I think that most of them were almost new.

    • Warthog

      The “laws of thermodynamics” don’t apply. There is nothing about LENR that contradicts them. The only argument from physics is based on electrostatics (Coulomb barrier). And there is no valid reason why that cannot be circumvented by quantum mechanical effects.

      There is simply too much evidence (peer-reviewed published evidence, at that) that says LENR is real.

      • SH

        What he said.

      • artefact


      • Roger Bird

        Exactly what he said.

      • psi

        I see what you mean, but are you really sure they didn’t violate some law or another? I mean, it stands to reason that when you start talking about “nuclear” — cold or any other sort — and “used plumbing,” you’re already in big trouble. These things do no belong together. As Joej so eloquently put, it, things just stay the same. And things that he says are impossible will never happen. Count on it.

    • BigWilly

      Ya Joe,

      Get up to speed bro!


  • Robert Mockan

    Me. My chances of making catalyst and marketing it as the first mass marketed LENR product are best, because I know that is what people really need. And once people understand that, they will buy the catalyst and make their own reactors with simple designs that can be built quickly, easily, and inexpensively. When they have the catalyst, they will be free.

    Either that, or I will be killed.

    • Robert

      Lock your doors send your wife into hiding your termination is imminent! Lol:)

      • Barry

        I voted for Robert.

    • Karl

      Sounds interesting. You seems knowledgeable but to win the game you need to have something real by know.

      • Robert Mockan

        I might agree except the game is rigged, and the odds favor the house. And the house is not ready for LENR yet.Still too much power and wealth to accumulate using existing technology for the house to let LENR be marketed.

        • Karl

          You say that the technology has to come out in another way?

          • Robert Mockan

            A “controlled” introduction of LENR technology to provide a Hegelian synthesis for implementing Agenda 21, will negate any benefit to the consumer. Providing catalyst will blow that ship out of the water, and become a weapon so that LENR technology can be used instead to destroy the well laid plans of the insane oligarchs. The Agenda 21 requires that people be made to fear LENR, and that only centralized control and distribution of LENR products, approved by the “proper” regulatory agency,
            are acceptable. Do not be surprised if all you see under their plans is, really, just a hot water heater. That is also a safe application that does not threaten more profitable activities of vested interests in the status quo. But mass marketing of products by others is still a ways off. Fear mongering and conditioning to accept corporate and government control of LENR technology has yet to begin in earnest. Have you ever wondered why Black Light Power has never gone commercial, and instead kicks the problem down the road to others through license sales? Or why Piantelli disappeared from the cold fusion scene for almost a decade? Or, for that matter, why Eugene Mallove is dead? There is a phrase in politics, that more people would be wise to remember. Nothing happens in politics by chance. Unfortunately politics is the gathering place for psychopaths, with all the attendant problems that arise from having psychopaths in “leadership” positions. But I’m sure you and every other person have their own opinions about these kind of subjects. Time reveals all. People can disagree with the reasoning, but there are consequences to actions, and those will be difficult to deny.

          • Karl

            In my view I deem that the genie out of the bottle by now and it would be virtually impossible to put back at this stage.

        • jacob

          Robert Mockan,If on looks at your perspective and keeps in mind how free energy devices have disappeared ,inventors went missing or suddenly died ,including Richard Clem,Stanley Meyer and those that have been attacked and survived, those that had their shops broken in to several times to discourage their work,is the reason i will not advertise my devices ,because that would make me a target,and I am simply not in the mood to be attacked ,my technology is based on centrifugal force amplification, 2 waterwheels on horizontal turn table,the turn table rotates and a small amount of energy is required to turn it at 1725 rpm and each kg of water, weighs hundreds of times it’s own weight under the force,the water wheels scoop the water flowing from the center of the turn table and guide it in the scoops of the water wheel which turns 10 times slower that the turn table,and the turntable has a tube from the center going down into the sump,water flow is recirculated and is not consumed,unit is self running with infinite COP,what part of that do people not understand,free energy devices have been around forever.

          yet it is so simple to built with simple mechanics ,the biggest hurdle to overcome is your own doubt and disbelieve , LENR is just another way of thousands of possibilities , and Robert you are very close to the truth,because they HAVE successfully kept most free energy technology away from us for so long patents were bought out and shelved.

          So why should this really change now.
          It is easy to see how uninterested and ignorant , people are with disbelieve,I guess change is hard.

          • BigWilly

            Hi Jacob,

            If you have a device that has infinite COP like you state than you could be the savoir of the world and an instant billionaire.

            I do not mean to be rude but it is easy to create a text based free energy device. The tough part is it actually working when people want to see it.

            Good luck,

          • jacob

            thousands of people have done it before me,but have been ridiculed and forsaken.
            and BW ,the text explains how it works,the key to centrifugal force free energy is,by doubling the rpm the force is increased 4 times.

          • jacob

            BW,Veljko Milkovic has proven centifugal energy overunity COP 12 just in the pendulum.
            The secret of free energy from the pendulum PDF (free)by Jovan Marjanovic.

            The Secret Free Energy Potential of Centrifugal Force,by Hank Mills

          • jacob

            BW,Jovan Marjanovic proves it mathematical and theoretical also with formulas and also new formulas he created,Claude Thiebaut,centrifugal force expert, explains it well including why newtons laws are not broken

          • Robert Mockan

            Jacob, the device you describe amplifies force by accelerating mass. Specifically the water. The energy to drive the system, what you refer to as “..a small amount of energy is required to turn it at 1725 rpm..” is greater, when you include the energy required to accelerate the water mass being recirculated up to speed, than the useful energy delivered by the system. The math describing that system proves that it is not over unity. Now, having said that, other researchers of the fringe sciences do say your device can in fact work with a short time over-unity output, but not in that configuration. The rotating mass does a thing called frame dragging of the surrounding space, and that can be harnessed as an energy storage mechanism to briefly enable the system to deliver more energy than the energy required to rotate the system, AFTER frame dragging has been established (by a previous rotation). A second application of the concept allows over unity energy by utilizing the change in inertia of a rotating mass when intersecting the rotation plane of another rotating mass at right angles. Both these designs have been said (without “official” confirmation) to be “space energy” converters, and useful for energy generation and propulsion systems. Not anti-gravity, more like… changing the inertia of a segment of a rotating flywheel such that a force imbalance manifests, and the flywheel undergoes rectilinear acceleration.
            Do they work? Well, that is the question, isn’t it? Some of the people you allude to who have either gone missing, died in “accidents”, or suddenly maintain a low profile and no longer answer any questions about their work, include those that once claimed the technology I just described really does work.

          • Robert Mockan

            By the way, there is a rule of thumb about what works and what does not. If an inventor stumbles upon a fringe science energy (or propulsion) system, but does not quite have all the pieces figured out, chances are we will hear about it. But if the system really does work, and especially if the inventor builds it, then chances are the inventor is one of those who turns up missing, or is dead. If you have the opportunity, and can build something in this field that works, probably best not to publicize it openly, like you say. On the other hand, if you try to make it available to the world, how to do that is going to be a problem.

          • Omega Z


            Something to consider is that the secret ingredient is in the frequency of the electrical current itself.

            Note that: Some appliances don’t work on some generic generators because of frequency compatibility.

            Something of concern to Utilities when you feed back excess power to them.

            Just something that came to mind a while back when people posted about HOW Rossi was generating a frequency or wave of any sort. No one noticed any hardware of size to do it with attached to the cores.

            And those who tested the E-cat had mentioned when Rossi allowed them to look inside the control box described an array of electrical components.

            The control box may house an electrical frequency modulator in the line voltage.

            The Juice is the Juice.

          • Robert Mockan

            Omega Z,
            that is also the sort of thing an inventor might try to improve the coupling of external current to activate cold fusion. The high frequency skin effect would confine the current passing through the catalyst to the surface layer. That increases conduction electron stimulation in the lattice material. Adds another layer to the cake. If Rossi improved the coupling of electric activation energy to increase the thermal power output per unit mass of catalyst, instead, or maybe in addition, to increasing the number of nuclear active regions in the catalyst, that would result in needing less catalyst for a given thermal power output. But increasing coupling “efficiency” should increase COP as well. Still, your suggestion raises the question what variables of the system could be changed to increase thermal power out per mass of catalyst, WITHOUT increasing COP? (Because Rossi claims COP remains 6). Certainly an idea worth testing with catalyst samples to focus in exactly what he is doing.

          • BigWilly

            Interesting comments gentlemen.

            Although I do not share your opinion about damage teams and conspiracy cover up type things. If I understood your comments correctly you believe these free energy devices exist but they have been destroyed or suppressed by people who have too much to lose to allow them to operate.

            Also being an Engineer by trade I am very skeptical of a device that breaks the second law of thermo dynamics unless I can witness it or read independent verification. I would be more than happy to scrap the second law with corresponding evidence.

            Thanks for the replys,

          • jacob

            BW,Newtons laws are not broken on this,it is and anomaly effect .

          • jacob

            Robert M. you are right on,space time energy is being converted,nothing is really created ,it is already there,the thing i discovered is the fluid flowing up from the center needs to take on the full the 1725rpm ,first so it will not become a substantial braking force on the rotation and secondly
            all outward flow of water is then free energy to apply pressure on the scoops on the waterwheels.

            the gearing is simple in its configuration,first a turntable with 2 waterwheels offset 180 degrees attached with bearings to platform rpm 1725.,waterwheels has big 15 inch gears on it,between the two 15 inch gears is one 1.5 inch gear ,which is mounted stationary in the dead center of the machine, the waterwheels are 12 inch,between the water wheels a little over 6 inches apart ,the stationary gear is located above the turntable ,the turntable is driven with a timing belt on a pulley attached to the turn table,the stationary gear is attached to the stationary shaft,that hold the bearings to support the turntable,so there is no mechanical moving parts,below the turn table,except a 4 inch tube going down 12 inches into the sump, the 4 inch tube is surrounded gy a 6 inch tube,the 6 inch tube is attached to the housing has a bottom plate with a 2 inch tube feeding the 4 inch tube.the 4 inch tube has a plate on the bottom with a hole a bit bigger than 2 inches,no pump is required to bring the water up,but it may not work without a baffle plate running lenght wise up the 4 inch tube,1- it increases the waterflow ,2-it spins the water up to rotational speed,so after it comes out of the 4 inch tube it is reactionless free energy and is not hindered by the centripetal force to produce work,the g forces are substancial ,that push on the waterwheels and can not be under estimated,a simple slide valve needs to be attached,so water can be shut off instantly,never underestimate the forces generated,it is simply unbelievable ,I started a YOUTUBE Account and when I have more time ,I will built a better unit than this one that is not as crude, and I would like to share it with the world.

            ps.Robert free energy devices are indeed impossible to market.

    • SH

      Im cheering for you, Robert.

    • Dave from NJ

      Robert, well, nobody lives forever! I hope you are first to market and live a long and prosperous life. You seem to be more reputable than the other players. You have my vote.

      I’ve read some of your posts and I share your frustrations in dealing with the powers that be. I’ve been thinking about the problem of power going bad for a long time. Here is my take on how to battle the overlords.

      What difference does any technological revolution make if the end result is always the same. Things are worse now than they were before the Internet and fossil fuel. Everyone complains about the government. Everyone thinks government is the problem. Capitalism, communism, co-op, or whatever “ism” you want to try. At some point, whichever system you use, everything will work great until someone starts messing around with the metaphysics of the “ism”. If the bankers want to destroy their own currencies nothing will stop them!

      Here’s the problem with the governments of the world. It has nothing to do with the “system”. All the world’s problems have to do with people in power. The problem with power is it makes the people in power have contempt for the people under their influence. There is a point where the power-holder no longer respects the humanity (either out of fear or pity) of their subordinates. Something clicks inside the power-holder’s head and the power-holder no longer sees their subordinates as human beings but as sub-human animals. The golden rule no longer applies and “insects” are squashed in response to psychopathic emotions. The power-holder rationalizes their own behavior based on the idea that the sub-human scum are not deserving of any respect or human decency. Any respect given at all would mean the power-holder is no longer in power. This cycle of contempt by the power-holders gets repeated over and over again at every level of society.

      If humanity is going to make any progress, at some point, we need to create new tactics to influence our leaders and people in positions of authority. These new tactics will have to be very subtle. So subtle that they would not create any additional fear-reactions in the power-holders. We need new tactics that will influence our leaders to never stop loving and respecting humanity. Otherwise, we will continue to see false-flag terrorist attacks in order to preserve the status-quo. Or some other type of extreme heinous attack against humanity.

      If fossil fuel or the Internet could not make any progress how could LENR make any difference. Before any technological revolution is ever going to make any progress at all we first need to resolve the problem of power corrupting the power-holders.

      • Karl

        Do you really think we can change human nature. What you are aiming seems to have similarities with the views of Don Quixote.

        • Dave from NJ

          Yes, I do. The problem with human nature is the lack of self-awareness. The only way to prevent human nature’s darker side is with the collective mind. Things that would be considered morally okay 1000 years ago are now considered barbaric. I believe there is a long and slow evolution to human nature.

      • jacob

        your assessment is somewhat right on the money,Dave.

    • chris robinson

      Considering how many countries could potentially be turned into third world banana economies,
      Including my own, I think Robert may indeed have plenty to worry about .
      We all know he has been hoarding a cache of all the available information on how to make the catalyst .
      So rendition and water boarding is definitely not out of the question
      Robert I think you will have to practice holding your breath.

  • Robert

    I voted brillon only because they have released some actual data and seem a little more transparent and realistic.

  • tony1971

    Go team Rossi!


      • Roger Bird

        Why excuse the caps when it is obvious that you didn’t need to use them?

  • DGT has not retracted the time line of having a publicly shown working production prototype on
    July 12.

    The have not followed through on the on the public release of test data with “internationally known and respected organizations” who participated.

    It is still anyone’s guess many have a time line
    for small or slightly larger devices for public purchase before the end of the year.

    LENR is also facing some competition from a
    couple of other small alternative power
    generating and heating possbilities who are
    on a simular timeline.

    Let’s hope one of these makes it in the next
    few weeks and months.

  • vbasic

    I will vote for Rossi, in spite of the competition. However, if PlasmErg actually sells their Noble Gas engines in September as promised, that could turn everything upside down. Engines that can be used in trucks or cars, or to generate electricity, with only loading the inert gases several times a year. Wow. LENR and other alternatives would be temporarily in second place to them, since the motors could be used directly in transportation and power production.

    • Roger Bird

      I promise I won’t be holding my breath on PlasmErg and I suggest that you do the same.

  • GreenWin

    Well, if you consider this “world” is little more than a multi-dimensional hologram and all its participants “poor players” – it makes little difference. At this point the inevitability of an energy paradigm change is sure.

    Opposition, and ‘who’ll be first?’ debates are the stuff of entertaining dreams. But, suspension of disbelief is the major requirement of suspense itself so… I’d say Rossi has worked hardest and catalyzed other mindsets better than any.

    BTW, I heard he’s going to direct 95% of all e-cat net profits to a Charitable Trust. OK.

    • Frank

      “I heard he’s going to direct 95% of all e-cat net profits to a Charitable Trust”

      Really?! 95%! Up to now it was 50% from the 1MW plant sale, what he promised to donate.
      Did you also hear which families he has selected for the donation from the sales of his first(s) 1MW plant?
      Isn’t this donation overdue, or was there no sale of a 1MW plant so far?

      Here a previous postin on JoNP:
      November 6th, 2011 at 12:30 PM
      Dear Dr. Rossi

      Have you already made this donation from the funds received by the sale of the 1MW plant, and will you consider making public the organization(s) that have been able to receive this charitable contribution in support of their efforts to help families in such need?

      Kind Regards

      Andrea Rossi
      November 6th, 2011 at 2:34 PM
      Dear Klaatu:
      Thank you for your imortant question.
      As I said, we will not give money to organizations, because most of them spend big part of the money in issues different from the core destination. I already had a bad experience on this in past.
      Our system will be totally different: we will give the money directly to the families to pay the healthcare, or, better, we will pay directly the structures which will make the healthcare. We are selecting the subjects. As soon as we will have the proceeds available, we will start.
      Warm Regards,

    • clovis

      Hi, guy.
      you said,I heard he’s going to direct 95% of all e-cat net profits to a Charitable Trust. OK.
      I would like to know more, this has always been my idea of how to handle such an large task.
      I would say this much power must be delegated. no one person can handle the new fire. with an exception to Rossie, i sincerely hope this is his decision.

      • GreenWin

        I agree clovis, the vast fortune a new energy paradigm will produce is best directed by a charitable organization like a trust. As such, they have discretion to directly finance charitable causes, or organizations. e.g. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

        Remember that such a business arrangement pays all its expenses prior to distribution to the trust. However, seeing there will be plenty of income it is likely such a fund would approach the Gates-category. Recall also that Leonardo is now managed by a separate trust.

  • clovis

    Hi, guys.
    I say Rossie will be first,based up on what he has said i believe he is ahead in the product being delivered another one will go out real soon,anyday now. come on Andrea

  • Alexvs

    Although I voted “No one will do it” I meant “No one will do it following these methods”.
    LENR is real, underunit and overunit LEN reactions are known, replicable and real. But nobody has exposed a valid theory. A theory is valid if it agrees with known phenomena and makes predictions which can be later proved.
    I insist, without understanding of known LENRs you are lost. Maybe you have luck and find randomly exoenergetic reactions which you selves can not replicate just because you have not controlled or simply missed some of the parameters involved.

    • GreenWin

      Alexvs – early man had no theory of fire – yet he put it to good use keeping warm and cooking food. So far, all anyone has done is produce excess heat. It’s not a time machine or a dilithium crystal pulse drive.

      • BertB

        I don’t think we really understand the true nature of the electron…particle with mass, but acts like a wave? But we sure use them a lot. We send about 10^^18 of them through a typical light bulb every second.
        I think we can use LENR to generate power without understanding the underlying physics, as long as we can control the process reliably…and that should be verifiable with lots of testing, which is exactly what Rossi is doing.
        Of course, it would be better to have a complete understanding of it, but I see no reason to hold up development of practical uses for that.

      • GreenWin

        Good point Bert. Indeed, I expect we’ll see disruptive new theories on atomic structure and the nature of sub-atomic physics. This is either entirely new knowledge or knowledge that’s been suppressed for a long while.

        • BertB

          I have been predicting for awhile now that when LENR or whatever it ends up being called is fully understood, there will be some adjustments to the Standard Model.

          • There will be adjustment because of LHC results, but I feel not from LENR.
            LENR will cause some breakthrough in solid QM, like semiconductors, superconductors and nano tech did and are doing.

            From data I gather, unlike old claims, LENR is plain old QM, simply we are not experienced enough in QM about surface, crystal, defects.
            note that the challenge is the same that nano-technology put on QM.

            in fact you would notice that the real breakthrough on LENR came from using nano-technologies, not new physic.

            the error of pro and cons on LENR have been to focus on “new physic”, while “old QM” is enough, if you add “group effect”, “strange dimension”.

    • That’s not true of BlackLight Poweer and the hydrino reactor. Mills has an extensively documented theory and has proved it works. He will not be the first, I suspect; he is usually the slowest of all. I sure hope it happens soon for him, though!

      • Omega Z

        @ Joe Shea

        Watching BLP has taken more patience then watching grass grow. Thanks to Rossi I believe BLP will step it up.

        I thought their so called by products & what they could be used for was extremely interesting.

    • Omega Z


      Don’t get hung up on theories. They neither prove nor disprove anything. There just someones Idea’s waiting to be tested. A theory not tested is not valid but just an Opinion..

      Majority of theories were developed after the fact to explain why something works. Original theory said it was impossible for a bumble bee to fly. Because of the obvious they kept working the theory until they figured it out.

      Thought to be theoretically impossible to create a bubble in liquid in space & also according to many computer models. A persistent Astronaut not aware it was impossible & a short communications breakdown kept shaking a bottle & proved otherwise.

      Also, Everyone working with LENR has a theory/plan. By trial & error they prove or disprove it & adjust accordingly. They just choose to keep it to them selves at this time. Does not mean they don’t have one.

      • georgehants

        Great comment and so True.

  • Johan

    Rossi, I hope!

  • AB

    Voted Rossi since he was the first to take it to a new level. It’s really impossible to know who is in the best position to market the first LENR reactor though.

  • Roger Bird

    I voted for Brillouin Energy. They seem to have the theory and Mike McKubre. But who knows. It is very difficult to know. I would put the list in this order:

    Brillouin Energy
    Defkalion Green Technologies
    Leonardo Corp. (A. Rossi)
    Blacklight Power
    JET Energy (Mitchell Swartz)
    Nichenergy (F. Piantelli)
    No one will do it

  • Torbjörn

    Reminder of what Defkalion said before the third pary tests:

    “If you wish to ignore the results of these tests, please do and just wait for the second series of tests on Hyperion systems using flow calorimetry with precise methods and instrumentation.”

    P.S. I voted for Rossi

  • Fibber McGourlick

    A suggestion for the next pole… “Which company will be the first to pass a independently-conducted scientific test in public to prove it’s invention produces economically significant net energy.”

    • GreenWin

      Fib, I expect the public market will be an excellent test for “economically significant energy.” The scientific test would follow some time later.

    • John

      Or, better still, when will it happen, with choices starting with “in the next year” and finishing with “sometime before our sun goes red giant”.

    • GreenWin

      Essentially commercial market acceptance has replaced the “scientific test in public.” Since “scientific tests” of low cost energy systems are known to be corrupt.

      • jacob

        right on ,just bypass the corruption an strangled Science

        • psi

          If you say so.

  • AstralProjectee

    Nobody here seems to know about PlasmERG. I had to tell Frank about them. They are coming out with a CF or ZPE kind of engine this September or sooner.


    • artefact

      John Rohner makes also extraordinary claims which are even better than Rossis. The invention goes back to the Papp engine ~1972 which is before cold fusion got “popular” ( There are lots of similarities with cold fusion which Papp could not have known if he just wanted to make a scam.

      Similarities: pressure, spark plug, radio frequency, anomalous cooling, hydrogen …

      Today Axil Axil on Vortex wrote:
      In slide 27 and 28, there is evidence that a large amount of light elements
      are being formed. This can only happen if some type of fission is also

      This is what also John Rohner claims: at the bottom:

      This is a new system that crosses the previous borders the science of Physics as it is part Fusion, fission and plasma working together utilizing elements of each to the advantage of the result. This result is power.

    • jacob

      Astral,PlasmaERG is incredible technology around from 1960’s inventor Joseph Papp ,demonstrated his engine many times,but could not interest Industry,he built a small submarine and he crossed the Atlantic in like 18 hours,obviously for publicity,but when he got to the other side of the Atlantic,there was some people waiting for him,he was found bloodied in a raft,his sub was never seen again. Too good to be true on would think,Josepf Papp was never the same again ,and was very suspicious and paranoid .

      Now 60 Years later the improved Papp Engine has been going through R&D for many many years,the engines they claim they have can run anything from from cars and Trucks using no fuel,except a shot of a mixture of Noble gases from a spray can the size of cigar.

      This is my number one pick to replace ???fossil fuel in transportation, just an engine with no exhaust and no camshaft, no valves,no intake ,
      no radiator,talking about simplifying Engines.
      Just pistons ,cylinders, piston rods, crankshaft with bearings, motor block,and a big mother of a plasma ignition system,

      We were not ready for it 50 years ago ,are we now?

      • AstralProjectee

        I estimated PlasmERG to be around 250 times cheaper than gasoline. That is a really rough estimate it could be more or less. The thing is is that John does not even know how long the engine can run without needing another refill. Amazing, if it’s true.

        I knew about Joseph Papp, but I didn’t know about the beating up part. That would have been absolutely terrible if that happened. Kind of like the Tesla suppression.


        • jacob

          Astral,as far as I know constant running operation a few month,then performance gradually goes down.

          • AstralProjectee

            As far as I know that is the calculated time you are talking about. But I really seem to remember that in the last audio interview he did, John said that he really does not know how long the current updated model will run? At least that is really what I thought I remember.


  • K

    It is very risky to scale up production and earn billions with ideas and inventions that came from other sources. CELANI (chemically enhanced lattice assisted nuclear interaction) is very close to open source. All information is on JONP. If not directly, open and clear, then there are at least usefull hints for multiple concepts. So JONP beats every competition.

    • Bigwilly

      True that Rossi fanboy

      • K

        Yeah, and so what ?

  • GreenWin

    Something for Sunday morning consideration. Since e-cat is now claiming 600C heat continuous it can drive either a small steam turbine or a micro-CHP unit. Earlier I posted a link to the Siemens AG Stirling engine CHP system – including all the electronics for grid support.

    Here are two more CHP systems – one from Honda ECOWILL, using a small ICE fueled by NG, and a unique Stirling engine from Whispergen. Both are good candidates for a LENR-driven micro-CHP system. Any of the three takes minimal engineering to integrate with e-cat 10kW heat source. The Whispergen animation is excellent.

  • Omega Z

    I voted Rossi, but there could be a horse race behind the scenes between Rossi & Defkalion.

    If/when Electric production for the consumer would be anybodies guess as to who comes in first.

    Personally I hope they all produce a product & begrudge none of them. The more the better. Competition will lead to better pricing & faster advancements & improvements.

    Regardless who comes to market first, I credit Rossi for pushing this into the lime light. I’ve been aware of BLP much longer then Rossi, But had determined that it would be at least another decade before anything come of it. Anything at all.

    Through the E-cat story, Most of us have become aware of just how many have been silently working the technology or setting on the sidelines. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all these came to surface at once. Rossi has lit a fire under their britches with the E-cat. Even BLP has suddenly made big advances & stepping up the pace.

    Face it. All the so called Green Tech our Governments & Special Interests have been pushing were heading toward a 300 to 400 percent increase in energy costs within the next decade. Lower standards of living & even rationing to some degree.

    The Smart Grids primary intent was to be able to turn off your appliances rather then increase energy production. That’s rationing.

    LENR Technology will end this game plan. So in the end regardless of my leanings, We need just 1. Anyone one will do.

    • about smart grid, I agree that todays vision of smart gris based on rationing to compensate intermitence of new fashion energy sources.
      it is driven by the fashion idea of neomalthusianism, that is caused by the fact that third world is getting richer, an rich less richer…
      unlike the occidental perceptioon, thing are getting better since long for real poors.
      occident however is sick of concentration of wealth shocking the mass… but average get better.

      I was thinking of smart gris and CHP as the future of LENR, but I think I’m wrong.
      The real cost of LENR is the investment in reactor.
      CHP like smart grid is made to save fuel at the cost of expensive investment.
      future of LENr is cheap simple furnace and power-plant. no need to be smart.

      • Tom

        It’s hard to imagine what sort of effects would come from continuous unlimited energy production in our ever shrinking environment. Could earth become a pulsating ball of light in space. I suppose not if we are utilising everything we produce, but we tend not to do that. I’d still like to see further improvements in the efficiency of our energy consumption. Though with the Ecat being totally green, I wonder why.

  • Alexvs

    To OmegaZ, BertB

    I might believe that any or all of the competitors on bringing LENR to market had gotten sometimes somewhere the expected results. What I wanted to say is that they do not know under which conditions, in what environement it occurred. And they know that they do not know. As we use to say “Pa nadotni salo neplidna” (they are giving blind strokes).
    The whole E-Cat story would be more credible if the “researchers” showed themselves more humble, if they controlled thoroughly the experiments instead of speaking of millions of manufactured units, robotic assemblies, snakes, worms, shellfishes and so on. Mass spectrometers, radiation detectors etc. are not just cheap but if you want results you have to afford costs.
    No doubt that Mr. Rossi is working hard 24/7 as usual, but my prediction regarding E-Cat marketing is that in spite of his efforts we will see no results at all. Same for other competitors in the list.
    Good luck for everyone

    • Karl

      How can you be so sure that they don’t know enough? To my mind, the most important aspect of the innovative and business competition in the LENR field is that the companies in the lead know how to light and cease the “fire2”.

      All of us should definitely had known much more by know if the official scientific community haven’t closed their eyes for the obvious anomalous heat generation from hundreds of experiments. I think we all have to be extremely grateful to those who have carried on to do research in the field rather than relay on the existing theories in quantum mechanics.

      It’s likely a matter of time for new light to shred where a new generation of researches can look on the past with fresh minds. Still up to now it seems to be a gang of retired or older experienced scientist that know that this phenomena is for real and also dare to say something without risking carriers, funds etc.

      • BertB

        That’s exactly what I said below, Karl.
        If they completely understood the process, then they could characterize it and predict exactly what heat levels would result from any experiment. But since they do not, the only alternative is to do lots of tests under all sorts of conditions so that they can gain confidence in their ability to control it before they commit to a commercial design.
        What Rossi and the others are doing is exactly what I would expect under the circumstances.

        • Karl

          Ok I’ve read it and fully agree.

        • BertB

          And I vote for Rossi too, although I think Brillouin has a shot at it, since they are reportedly already working on a boiler design.

          • Karl

            I vote for Rossi as well. This not just to give him credit for his obvious influence to gear-up LERN to a higher level and the entertainment he creates.

        • psi

          Just what you would do, right?

    • Omega Z

      @ Alexvs

      The Higgs Boson theory of existence is just a theory to be proven or dis-proven.
      Physicist wrote a theory/plan for the Higgs Boson for where it Might be found if it exists.

      They then revert to trial & Error. Not finding it, they Adjust the Theory & try again. This continues until they Find it or determine that it may not exist.

      Rossi wrote a theory/plan for his LENR.

      Then proceeds with trial & error. Adjusts the Theory accordingly & Apparently found something that works.

      Presently it appears he is fine tuning by trial & error & adjusting his theory accordingly. Rossi has stated that his present theory is greatly changed since he began.

      Their processes seem to have near everything in common.

      When a working product is produced & his research published, others will study it & work to improve it. Even then it will take trial & error to proof it out.

      Most theories in our world are incomplete. It’s claimed by some that theories can be proofed with mathematics. Problem is the Theory of mathematics itself is incomplete.

      • Bird

        Amen, OmegaZ. I have a mere bachelor of science degree and I marvel at how many “scientists” seem completely ignorant of the messiness of the scientific process. It’s slow, w/many dead ends. Also helpful if the snarkiness is unstated unless one is DOING THE EXPERIMENTS!!! Call it professional courtesy.

  • artefact

    I haven’t seen that befor. On the ICCF-17 ( ) on August 17th there is a commercialization presentation and one commercialization panel discussion.

    I read somewhere that Defkalion has two presentations there. On is on August 13th but no other is mentioned. I guess one of these comm. things will be theirs. Maby the second one is from Brillouin?

    • georgehants

      artefact, somethings happening early July I think.
      Do you know what that is and the dates.
      Conference I think.

      • artefact
      • GreenWin

        George, this conference “International Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Symposium, ILENRS-12” is sponsored by William & Mary College. It has a VERY interesting staff of speakers and attendees including Dennis Bushnell, Roger Lepch, and John Martin from NASA Langley, and Robert Hendricks, Bruce Steinetz from NASA Glenn Research Center.

        The Glenn guys are involved with AST – Advanced Subsonic Technology – a NASA program to assist commercial airline industry in quieter aircraft engines.

        Other attendees include Mike McKubre, George Miley, Peter Hagelstein… Also attending will be Beverly Barnhart, DIA/DI, Defense Warning Office. Ms. Barnhart is the editor of “Technology Forecast: Worldwide Research on Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions Increasing and Gaining Acceptance,” DIA-08-0911-003, 13 November 2009.

        This appears to be a conference designed to bring government agencies and contractors working in LENR, together.

        • georgehants

          Ivan, thats the one I was thinking of.
          Thanks and GreenWin.
          So it’s on now 1st to the 3rd.

  • Dave from NJ

    The Chinese will be the first. This is because the Chinese have more people and more money working on this problem than everyone else in the world by a factor of 10.

    “The Shenzhou-9 spacecraft, which took off on June 16 with three Chinese astronauts aboard, including China’s first female astronaut, made a successful landing Friday morning, after carrying out the country’s first manual docking.”

    • jacob

      My Late Mother always said ‘watch out for the Chinese’

      • AstralProjectee

        In this modern world especially now with CF I doubt the Chinese or any other country except Iran will pose any real threat.


      • The Chinese are a bit like the Japanese.

        They like to “jump on the band wagon” and efficiently copy the hell out of a successful product.

        They are (in my opinion) not really innovators.

        I spent 5 years in Japan and hang out with Chinese people and I have never met someone with an original idea/invention.

        Just Google: Japanese inventions

        Since the Chinese invented fire works, gun powder and printing and heaps of other stuff like 500+ years ago, their contribution in the last 100 years in comparison has been insignificant!

        Let me know if I am wrong please.

        • jacob

          The Asians are smart,just about take half the scholarships here in Canada.

          • Big difference between smart and innovative…

          • AstralProjectee

            Asians are smart but at least they don’t have a radical religious belief system.

          • Bird

            like astral projection???

  • Francesco CH

    In-depth article from PESN:



    Dear Andrea,

    By the way, I have read an interesting comment from an individual who has shared accurate information about your work in the past. He seems to be hinting that your goal for the high temperature E-Cat is to be able to produce a stable output of 1,000C steam.

    Is there any truth to this?

    He calls it, “the revolution inside the revolution.” If this is the goal, what is the highest stable steam temperature you have been able to produce so far (even if only for a matter of hours)?

    Thank you.

    Sincerely, Hank Mills


    Dear Hank,

    All I can say is that you will be surprised from the report.

    Warmest Regards,

    p.s. The guy you cited is not stupid.

    • Even with ultra-efficient heat transfer to water under great pressure, the actual reactor core would need to be approaching the melting point of nickel (1,453°C) in order to make steam at 1,000°C. This is far too hot for any primary (intermediate) coolants except liquid metals or salts. Circulating such coolants represents a step change in engineering difficulty, but possibly both the reactor(s) and water boiling tubes could be submerged in a passive molten pool of lead (mp 327°C) held at somewhere around the 1,200°C mark.

      This is very definitely not looking like something suitable for the kitchen wall or even a brick lean-to! Personally I think I’ll reserve judgement on this one until some actual data is available.

      • jacob

        Peter,i had suggested molten lead,and now I am suggesting aluminum and or liquid aluminum for bath for heat exchangers,due to great heat transfer properties.

        • Aluminium (660C) or even zinc (420C) could be used. For higher MP metals though, you might get a problem with coolant metal solidifying on the boiling water tubes. Also they have lower specific heats than lead, so might be inherently less efficient at removing heat, although viscosity when liquid would also be a factor.

    • Dave from NJ

      Wow, what an extordinary claim!!!

  • artefact

    I make the proposal to create a kind of follow up chart where the interesting dates are collected.

    The notable events could (should) soon increase a lot and it will be very helpful.

    Is it possible to have something like a timeline above the polls or a new page linked in the menu?

    • An events calendar with detailed info sounds like a good idea. An accumulating historical record of past events and any notable outcomes would also be very useful – it’s all too easy to lose track of when and where announcements, demos etc. are made.

      • georgehants

        Peter, I think somebody was trying to do that on the web but I have so many old bookmarks I cannot find it.

    • admin

      Could you give me a bit more detail on what you would like included. I’m thinking a spreadsheet might work for this, but not sure exactly what you are envisioning.



      • Barry

        What’s the best and most efficient way to make a timeline?

        You’re in for a busy summer Frank. I hope you didn’t have a long vacation planned

        • admin

          No, I’m not planning to be gone this summer, Barry. A timeline would have to have its separate page, and if someone could propose a design I could look into how best to create it.

          • NJT

            Could “Gooogle Doc’s” help out in any way…”

      • artefact

        First I thought of something just like the “POLLS” window on the right. Maby scrollable if there are too many entries.
        Then the known dates are listed sorted by date like:

        August 13 – 17, ICCF17
        August 8 NIWEEK 2012 …

        I think better would be a new page like the videopage in your menu but a little more exposed. Then there would be more space to write a little description and if you like the article by you about that event can be linked. (That would be the same like in an EXCEL sheet but better to “open”)

        I don’t know about the administration of your website. If you can define who is allowed to edit a single page you could leave the timeline editing to some other people.

        It’s easier to keep track of the dates for all of us.
        It’s information people will come here to see.
        If its on a different page you get some more pagehits.
        If it is a long and detailed timeline it maby gets linked and mentioned @ other websites

        But of course if you have enough to do forget about it or just make a “mini timeline”.

        • Barry

          A wish list would be perhaps a two sentence description with the date. When clicked on it could branch to more detailed references.

          Perhaps someone out there could set this up for Frank.

          • artefact

            That would be good but requires more than one page.
            To come close to this I wrote that Frank could link his articles to the dates where he has one.

  • Dave from NJ

    “Xing Zhong Li, Ph.D., presents research demonstrating that cold fusion can occur without the production of strong nuclear radiation. He is developing a cold fusion reactor that demonstrates this principle. Li is a scientist with Tsinghua University in Beijing, China.”

    Li and his team will be the first because China has all the money in the World.

    • GreenWin

      “…because China has all the money in the World.” This is simply not true Dave from NJ. I personally have more than ten dollars in a savings account. And what about Fort Knox? Rockefeller? Buffet / Gates??

      • I heard a rumour that Fort Knox has been empty for decades. The others may just have a ‘bob or two’ stashed away though, and I am certainly no pauper – I have what could be as much as a couple of quid in my ‘coppers’ jar, right here in front of me.

    • georgehants

      Dave sounds good, link please or which conference is he attending.

    • Sanjeev

      He is a very experienced man. That statement is very very old actually. Hopefully we will see and update in iccf17.

    • Bird

      The Fed has the most money! But perhaps China has the strongest “cash” position” and the most incentive to innovate, (as opposed to the Fed’s desire to enslave), so, like you said, maybe.

  • Job001

    My broader product definition list;
    Research sales agreements:BLP
    Manufacture license sales:Defkalion
    1MW military prototype:Rossi
    Home HVAC & water heater units:Rossi
    First 100w Fuel cell:BLP
    Space power cell:NASA
    Integrated Certified Boiler:Brillouin
    1.5kw Fuel cell home energy unit:BLP
    30kw transport fuel cell:BLP

  • Rossi is the only guy living in the 2012 world.

    He’s an action man!

    All the others are BS artists.

    • Barry

      In your opinion.

    • alex

      Agree with Barry. “Rossi says”, is not the same as producing the first Mass Market LENR Product. Rossi said his 1 MW unit counts, but it does not, unless the military entity comes forward at a later date to acknowledge it. So it’s fair game still. In Rossi’s mind he will be first, but I think Brillouin has him beat, in that they don’t plan to make the full end user device. They plan on licensing the device to companies to see fit on how to incorporate them into end user products. Much less R&D involved. And technically, selling the means to make a product, is actually a product.

  • mick_mcgovern

    Larsen’s Lattice Energy – in about 2022