Rossi Pushing for E-Cat Stability at 1200 C [Updated]

It looks like Andrea Rossi is trying to max out the E-Cat. Not content with stable temperatures at 1000 C, he says he is trying to head higher. Today on the Journal of Nuclear physics he said:

We reached with the Hot Cats the temperature of 1 000 Celsius degrees: this makes closer the electric power production. With this temperature we can heat the steam up 600 Celsius, getting high efficiencies. In these very days we are working on it. We got a validation on the Hot Cat : tomorrow we will be working for 24 hours at 1 200 Celsius degrees. Unfortunately I have to invest on this my Summer Holidays…

With stable heat at 1000C making 600C steam, the E-Cat should be capable of powering the conventional steam turbines found in modern power plants. At 1200C one would expect steam temperatures even higher. One would expect, or at least hope that some people in the electricity generation industries might be paying attention by now. It’s hard for me to think of any scenario now in which Andrea Rossi would be simply telling lies about these marvelous achievements — unless he is completely insane. I hope that the upcoming validation reports that will be presented at the Zurich conference in September will help to show one way or another who Andrea Rossi really is.

UPDATE: Rossi made this report on the JONP today:

To Whom it may interest:
After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The power of the Hot Cat is 10 kW. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

So it appears from this quote that Rossi may have another report coming out in addition to the one he will be reporting at the Zurich conference. It will be very important for Leonardo’s business prospects for these reports to start circulating among potential customers.

  • All I know is that I cannot wait to install these little puppies for my customers that use hot water heat. Add an indirect fired hot water tank and the generator for power and you really dont need anything else in your basement. Quiet, ultra efficient (over 100%) and I can imagine a line up of orders for them soon enough.

    Many of the people on this forum would like to do all the work themselves but the majority of the population will want “professionals” to be responsible for the installation and maintenance of these devices, even if it is stupid simple.

    • Omega Z

      even if it is stupid simple.

      Yes, Even after you show them how easy & simple, They still call.

      On of those things that make you go HUMMM.

  • LCD

    Im allfor LENR and hope Rossi has something that actually works even at 350C, but these claims he makes off the cuff like this, wether real our imagined, are sort of silly given his checkered past. He must know that.

    • Stanny Demesmaker

      “Imagined”, so everything that happened the last years is based on fiction ? If you need solid proof, check the national instruments conference where Celani just demonstrated a system that gives, surprising a Nickel/Hydrogen configuration like Rossi’s. People need be start giving weight to the things that matter and not to much on their feelings towards rossi.

      • LCD

        Umm Stan you don’t know me very well.

      • cx

        I really hate how lenr = rossi. Celani demo has no bearing on what rossi has. I’m not saying rossi does not have what he says but validation of lenr in general doesn’t mean one for rossi and his device

        • Please see AB’s comment at 12:38 pm for the relevance of Celani’s demo to Rossi.

  • Andrea Rossi increasingly worries me, and now I see he worries others. Something’s gonna blow soon.

  • Martin

    Steels melts at 1500 C. Take care, Mr. Rossi!

    • captain

      Rossi said that he knows very well what’s going on with HT, however his E-Cats are also made with special metals, newly created and that doesn’t exist already on the market: so he’s confident in his tests that are giving him a great satisfaction.

      • probably ni more metals, but ceramics…
        problem at that temp is fluid, but metals, molten salts and gaz can be goods.

    • LCD

      Ni powdwer will lose structural integrity well below that temp.

      • Robert Mockan

        Not just structural integrity, but a whole lot of metallurgical properties and physical chemistry properties are affected at such high temperatures. And yet, the heat generation continues? It allows checking off a whole lot of material properties that are NOT necessary for LENR heat generation, because they are being altered by the high temperature. This allows elimination of many of the competing theories about what LENR is. Even though Rossi does not say much, what he does say is very useful. Nickel or alloy at 600 C and still operational is amazing. And 1000 C? Astounding! Higher than that? With other materials it may be possible to go much higher. Now THAT is interesting.

        • LCD

          So we agree its some type of alloy, becaise the other property, shape, should still be important, no?

          • Robert Mockan

            I would think an alloy, because lattice creep happens at these temperatures in pure nickel. A stable surface morphology of the catalyst (cavities, defects, and so on) would indicate a heat resistant alloy. In fact Rossi scientists may have synthesized this using high energy ball milling, as I described at my blogspot, OPEN SOURCE NUCLEAR FUEL, since that would be an appropriate method for making superior LENR catalysts for testing.

            “November 6, 2011 12:09 PM

            I’ve been looking over Patent 4946646, “Alloy for hydrogen storage electrodes”, that claims a large number of alloys of the form AxBy, including the TiNi, can accommodate larger quantities of interstitial hydrogen (protonated) with enhanced material stability. What I think may be even more important is that one can tailor the metallic bonding properties, electron band density, and crystal lattice constants, by choosing the appropriate elements. Possibly other elements may be used as promoters to enhance the spillover condition under hydrogen gas pressure. I also agree these kind of substances would certainly be near the top of the list to investigate as potential fuel for the E-Cat. Ball milling with a high energy mill under argon can synthesize a few grams of these different compounds in a couple hours for testing. Once testing in a calorimeter under hydrogen pressure shows a fuel has been found, then a larger amount can be made for a reactor. The sooner this kind of research is started, and a fuel found, the sooner OS researchers can set up a larger mill for making tons per week of the fuel.”

          • Robert Mockan

            I suppose if Rossi is using pulsed AC with fast rise times at elevated voltages for activation, and is applying electro migration of ionic hydrogen in the lattice material to initiate the LENR, then an alloy thin film of silver-nickel-barium, would be appropriate, perhaps sputtered onto the interior wall of his reactor. In hydrogen gas at sub-atmospheric pressure with a magnetic field it should begin generating LENR heat at the Curie temperature (and higher), and with nano-size morphological surface tubular structures to maximize current at defects in the lattice where the interstitial and hydrogen ions accumulate, that configuration would have all the essentials for efficient LENR effect. By the way this is the kind of structure Piantelli is working on, so I think Rossi will be getting some high temperature competition very soon from others in the field.

      • Ged

        Oh yes, nickel integrity will break down around a range of 1400-1500 C and then melt, so we’re definitely at the cap. Not sure if there are nickel alloys that push that higher though; plenty that push it lower.

    • Luca Salvarani

      Rossi wrote that he’s using special materials that don’t exist in nature. They are artificially built for him.

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        I think he really meant “alloys” that aren’t commercially available rather than “new elements that don’t exist in nature”.

      • Ged

        That’s the definition of meta-materials. But Ivan has it right I think: just means alloys/equipment designs that aren’t readily commercially available

        • Hank Mills

          It is time to get more active than ever, everyone!

          The emergence of cold fusion is accelerating faster than ever before. Every day it seems like we hear of new tests of primitive systems that prove, yet again, that excess heat can be produced. Also, we are learning more about the E-Cat, an advanced system, that is now capable of producing temperatures of 1,000C in a totally stable manner. Very importantly, the highlights of the extended test of the high temperature E-Cat is going to be revealed at the Zurich conference. If what we have been hearing about this report is true, it is going to be a ten ton weight to drop on the heads of the skeptics!

          We need to start spreading awareness of cold fusion technology like never before. Of course we do not need to just go online and do so, but we can also tell our friends, relatives, neighbors, and co-workers. Once the news of this technology hits the mainstream, the world is going to change in a very significant way, and we need to give as many people as possible a heads up!

          The fossil fuel age is now coming to an end. It may last another decade or so, but the nickel-hydrogen cold fusion technology is going to change everything.

          Just imagine a world in which…

          — Your home is off the grid and powered by a cold fusion generator.

          — Your car utilizes a cold fusion generator that gives it an infinite range.

          — Your dollar goes further because the price of every item has went down.

          — The Earth is being transformed into a better place due to massive water desalination plants opening that allow for deserts to be turned into farmland.

          This future is coming! We need to tell everyone!

          We also need to tell them to make sure that when they start hearing about cold fusion on the news, that they demand the technology be given a fast track to certification.

          Hope must win, not fear.

          • jacob

            Hank ,the end of the Mayan calender is 2012,maybe it is indicating the end of the fossil fuel dependency,and freedom from slavery

      • Robert Mockan

        Rossi has never given me the impression he works in a lab himself. If not then he has a team, studying and making catalyst compositions for testing. At least one lab tech to do the grunt stuff, and a high brow doing high brow thinking and supervising experiments. Probably at least one other person to assist in some capacity. If it turns out the catalyst secrets need to be discovered again, important to understand everything Rossi is having done can be replicated again without excessive difficulty.
        I am getting more concerned one way or another he is going to be stopped. If he is correct about the progress he is making, and this is not experimental measurement error, he is well into a temperature range using LENR that could be considered a potential national security threat to the USA. If he is working at higher COP than 6, make that a definite, and not just potential.

  • geeza

    Being an engineer I took notice when Rossi stated that he was using AISI 310S stainless for the reactor walls. It is resistant to oxidation and can sustain exposure to a constant 1150C. Now that he is at 1200C he is hitting the upper tolerance limits 310S, I await the next material he is going to substitute on the ever climbing temperature path to 1453C when the whole event will just stop….

  • Max S

    Next Rossi will probably announce delays in the launch of the e-cat because of delayed certification and lack of patent. In the meantime he will speak about new features to keep the story going.
    Also I wonder about production. There seems to be robotized mass production coming up (it takes time and capital to build it !), there is a secrect factory (why we never see any videos ?), but then Rossi says he does not know if production starts in Europe or US. This does not sound it would be anywhere near to launch. Maybe Gary Wright is right and there is no e-cat ?

    • Rossi has already made it fairly clear that the home e-cat will not be available in the near future, something that I and others have been suggesting would be likely for some time, due to the disruptive nature of this technology. Rossi’s comments relate to the ‘hot cat’ or industrial boiler system which uses a different core type. As this latter system can be adopted by energy producers and the military and kept out of the public domain, it is unlikely to meet with the same kind of opposition, and any problems are likely to relate to control and engineering. You appear to be deliberately trying to conflate the two developments. I wonder why.

      • Max S

        You do not need to imply an conspirative agenda just because it does not fit to your personal opinion.
        I have a Rossi interview right in front of my eyes, given to the Swiss/German licencees who published it in his latest net journal claiming that mass production of e-cat home units would start fall/winter of 2012 (http://t.co/t9J9RZq2). In the same interview, by the way, Rossi calls his ex partner Defkalion fraud). The article in net-journal the licenceee clearly states that sales of 10 KW home e-cat units would start this year and justifies cheap price by the advantage of mass production. Is this now a lie or what ?
        Now, when you have better information about delays, when would the e-cat be available ? what do you mean with “Rossi has already made it fairly clear that the home e-cat will not be available in the near future” ? What is “near future” ? 2014 ? What is the source fo this information anyway ?

        • It is not possible for observers to distinguish between delays due to real safety issues and interference with the certification process. I used the term ‘suggestion’ meaning in my opinion. Either way the result is the same – delay. How long the delay lasts remains to be seen. Your linked document dates from some 7 months ago – things may have changed a great deal since then.

          Rossi has intimated that there may be problems with certification on many occasions, most recently on the 5th Aug (emboldening mine):

          Larry Jameson
          August 4th, 2012 at 4:01 PM

          Dear Engineer Rossi
          Was the delay in certification of the home e-cat made at your request to allow you to incorporate new features in the design based on your recent discoveries or was it at the request of the certificators.

          Andrea Rossi
          August 5th, 2012 at 3:25 AM

          Dear Larry Jameson:
          No, the delay derives from the intrinsic difficulty of this certification regarding the domestic apparatuses: a domestic apparatus has to be sold from any shop to any Customer without further control and without guarantee that instructions are even read.
          Warm Regards,
          A.R.

          • Max S

            seriously, the German licencee shoot newsletters with the above mentioned messages, and suggesting a soon market entry.
            Anyway, got your point the domestic e-cats are delayed because of certifications. A good excuse for Rossi also.
            The 1MW military e-cats we will never to be able to verify due to confidential nature.
            Possibly we may have to wait years before the e-cat technology is verified ??? Great, Rossi can keep the story going.
            Note the article quoted above reports that already in Feb 2012 already 12 1MW e-cats were being manufactured – in contradiction to the message in the same article that they do not know where to put production. I would be interested do we have a real source that confirms that the military has ordered anything ?
            In between there are 1MW industrial e-cats which can be ordered against a downpayment of 400 grands. Hopefully customers take a good techncial due diligence to make sure the e-cat is real.

          • Omega Z

            Ross has also stated that if the certifications are approved, Production & sales of home E-cats will proceed even if the patent hasn’t been issued. It has been applied for & provides limited protection even before it’s granted.

            The 1Mw E-cats require 1/3 down, the rest payable only after it is signed off on by the customer as doing as billed. If that were you, would you keep quite if it didn’t work as stated. Most likely you be on the evening news telling your story.

            On the other-hand if it works, You’ll keep your mouth shut. You don’t broadcast to your competition how you can out compete them. Let them figure it out on their own. In the short term you just increase your profit margin till they catch up. That’s how business works.

        • freethinker

          I can appreciate the resentment. Rossi says many things but not much is to show for it. But give him time, in the end his fraudulence, or excellence, will become very apparent. If you do not like what he says or does, then simply ignore him. Unless you have invested money… But know this: Gary Wright is most likely an agent for forces not caring much for Rossi to be a success.

          • The name of Wright’s website – shutdownrossi.com – is definitely a bit of a giveaway!

          • timycelyn

            According to Rossi, “Gary Wright” is none other than our good friend Kermit(or something like that).

            When last seen he was posting on ECN (I dipped in briefly the other night to see if things had improved over there – they most emphatically have not). He was railing against the other contributors for not taking a sufficiently strident and anti-Rossi stance. Once more highlighted the damage being done to ‘Other Genuine LENR researchers’ which does seem to be the Kermit Hallmark…

            Bit like claiming Atilla the Hun was a wuss that tried to avoid property damage… 🙂

    • Robert Mockan

      If Rossi has a valid business model it includes recovering investments through sales. With sales delayed what will be the source of revenue for Leonardo Corp. from the E-Cat technology? Military heater modules? Maybe, but to have the consumer E-Cat delayed for one or more years due to “certification” I agree is suspect. Why? Rossi claims these will be contractor installed. The instructions for the consumer will be about like turning the switch on, same as with a gas heater. Want heat, turn on the switch at the wall thermostat. Anyone who has been involved with new product development can guess what is happening here. There are design issues, and regulatory issues. It being a “nuclear” device is probably one of the problems causing a delay. And if Rossi is stopped, for any reason, then we can expect ALL other manufacturing of these kind of products, by ANY company, to be either delayed, or stopped. I have stated my opinion before what will happen if Rossi is stopped, for any reason.

      • Any home LENR device for heating or (much worse) for powergen is likely to be massively disruptive, especially for government revenues and energy cartel profits. Vehicle propulsion units would be similarly damaging to the interests of the oil industry and govt revenues, and in any case would also be easily adapted to electricity generation. I think it’s highly unlikely that either will appear in the West until they have become ubiquitous elsewhere.

        However large scale boilers that can be monopolised by energy producers do not present such threats, and in fact would potentially increase revenues to energy cartels after initial investments have been covered. They would also be of major interest to the US and other navies for marine propulsion. If governments can be offered a means of skimming taxes off LENR, equivalent to those they rake off fossil fuels and carbon paranoia, then the way may be clear for development of the HT technology at least.

        So the oiks will get their clean power (but none of the financial benefits) and our governments will save the world, hooray.

        • Robert Mockan

          Good analysis. The same applies to the Papp engine. Too disruptive. The solution? Maybe instead of a few companies trying to market products, millions of people become educated how to make LENR catalyst, and use the “plasmic transition process”? A few companies can be stopped, but how would millions of people building their own machines using the “fuel” they make themselves, be stopped?

          • Agreed. The Papp engine (if real) probably represents an even greater threat to the status quo than LENR, at least initially. Most vehicles need rotary motion input rather than electricity, and its a lot easier and more efficient to convert rotary motion to electricity or heat, than vice versa.

            As to suppression, in this country at least (UK) it is prohibited to make firearms, distilled booze, drugs and so on, and attempting to do so will generally get your door kicked in at 3 AM. Even using un-taxed (‘red’) diesel in your car will result in a very hard time. I guess something very similar would apply if governments want LENR to stay in the hands of their friends. A sudden drop in your household power consumption might be enough to alert the ‘authorities’.

          • Robert Mockan

            I know many people would prefer “non-participation” as a means to fight tyranny. Wishful thinking, but understandable. But they forget when you turn your back on your enemy, they will simply attack you from behind.

            So any way one wants to cut it, direct confrontation and all the unpleasantness of physical violence, will probably happen sooner or later, if people want to benefit from these energy sources.

  • I see no problem with temperature up to melting point, if the device works. Thermodynamic temperatures of nuc reactions, hot or cold, are in millions degrees range anyway, so what’s big deal? However, 1000 C reactor to produce 600 C steam? This kind of difference smacks me as superfluous. And then, use helium and push efficiency to over 60 pc, reducing self-consumption share of total electric power to quite acceptible 25%.
    As for steel, just forget it. Refractory superalloys and even more ceramics could handle these temperatures just fine.

    • High melting point metals such as tungsten or tungsten alloys seem more likely. Ceramics are generally not great conductors of heat, and can be prone to thermal stress fracturing, especially when significant pressure differentials are involved.

    • Omega Z

      All Rossi is doing now is optimizing. This allows for some flexibility in Electrical Generation. Once you reach the melting point of nickel your done. All thermal action stops. On top of that, the materials used for turbines also have their limits. In fact many have already reached practical limits.

      The masses are stuck with Nickel for Cheap energy. NASA has done an analysis & determined there’s only enough palladium to provide 1/3 of today’s power needs even if it SHOULD be found to work better then Nickel in the future. In which case it will be used only for special needs. It’s also much more expensive.

      Also, once you reach a certain point, you hit diminishing returns & start going negative on benefits.

  • Supervisor

    No, no. This is very cruel and un-diplomatic, calling this as “insane”.

    When one half of personality is publicly talking/writing at morning time that 1000°C temperature is very unpractical and not pursued in future because of high cost of extreme materials etc. and second half of personality is talking around night time that 1200°C is end goal and important milestone and bright future, this is in professional circles called not as “insane”, this is typical behavior during schizofrenia personality change.

    Modern health industry is capable curing these slight handicapes.
    This is no obstacle in inventing new physics and new tinkering procedures.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      An inside source called “Cures” (on an Italian-speaking forum) who turned out to be quite reliable, said a few weeks ago that Rossi reached 1200°C during third party tests. Although Rossi is reporting this as news, this is not a new goal. I personally don’t think temperatures will rise further however, unless new materials are used (tungsten like on the Athanor cell?).

      As for Rossi “delaying” certifications for home devices as argued by some, I think it’s because (still according to the same source) the same tests showed that the E-Cat can be classified as a nuclear source and this might be probably causing problems with certifications.

      • Francesco CH

        This time is different.

        Rossi reached peaks of 1200°C-1250°C… Now he is trying to let the E-Cat work at 1200°C in a stable way.

        • Lu

          Francesco CH,

          Do you know what he is doing to try to get it stable at this temperature? Is it something with the control system? Fuel? Geometry of the reactor? Thanks.

          • Francesco CH

            Geometry of the reactor, ie structure of the reactor.

          • Supervisor

            Like parabole reflector (at automobile main lights), these deflected these “photons” out of active site to inner side of exchanger wall

    • Francesco CH

      There is an intrinsic limit that cannot be overcome, ie nichel melting point (about 1550° celsius), hence Rossi is pushing the envelope. Which is not an unusual behaviour regarding a new a technology, especially if the person who performs it is the inventor of this technology.

    • wolfgang gaerber

      The obvious thing is if we talk about primary or secondary temperatures. 1000 deg steam is quite unpractical because of material….
      But if you think about a typical thermal powerplant – you have primary temperatures of about 1000-1200 deg which heats up the steam to 600 deg.
      The reason for this quest to 1200 deg celsius is the capability to use an e-cat heatsource with “normal” infrastructure and engineering used in thermal plants and to retrofit existing ones.

      A charcoal fire has a flame temperature between 750 – 1200, with forced draft up to 1400…a candle about 1400…

      Using that flame – you heat up a boiler with water. The boiler temperature will never reach the temperature of the flame…

      • I’m sure you are right. Rossi’s focus is now wholly on an ‘acceptable’ replacement for fossil fuel boilers. Other potential applications such as vehicle propulsion are for the (fairly distant) future. Buy shares in promising storage battery developers.

        • Supervisor

          No, buy Put Options for shares of Coal Miners.

          And because 23% of US consummation of raw oil is Heating oil refinery fraction, Sell WTI and Brent futures.

    • I counsel patience, patience…

    • Ivo
  • You people are out in force today. Is this blog getting a bit too popular?

    • enoughAlready

      Its people who gave it a chance that are now realizing its a hoax. What are YOU waiting on Peter?

      • As I said, you people are out in force today. Why is that?

      • georgehants

        enoughAlready, Please give a comprehensive list of these people “who are realising it’s a hoax”, with links please.
        Or is that just something out of your head.
        I look forward to a comment with substance from you.

        • Hi George. No point asking I’m afraid. You know why.

          • georgehants

            Ha Peter, one has to give them a chance, one day one of them may reply with something above a one sentence jibe.

    • Miles

      It’s exciting that’s why. I prefer to read than comment. Most comments are regurgitated over n over again.

      Can’t wait for Tylers update to the powerpoint slides.

      Meow. Go cat go.

  • is the earth round? if so where is the proof

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Here’s Francesco Celani’s Ni-H demo at NIWeek 2012:

    http://bit.ly/NalV2l

    • georgehants

      Success, Ha. Well done.

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        It’s interesting also to note that (from Krivit’s article):

        According to a source at the show who spoke with James Truchard, co-founder, president and chief executive officer of National Instruments, Truchard is very interested in LENR research.

        or:

        […]Gordon is the co-chair of the ICCF-17 conference. He told New Energy Times that National Instruments will send an engineer to Korea to assist with [Celani’s] demonstration reactor.

        • LCD

          Well I think its pretty obvious now that Ni was influenced in a positive way by Rossi. It is also the best example so far against pseudo-skeptics.

    • artefact

      The module is the same like on http://www.kresenn.com/#!lenr

  • georgehants

    Knowing the Score-Stove — revolutionary sound-powered stove tested on the ground August 7, 2012 Knowing the Score-Stove — revolutionary sound-powered stove tested on the ground A revolutionary sound-powered stove and electrical generator is currently being tested in the conditions it was designed for — rural villages in Nepal and Banglades
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-08-score-stove-revolutionary-sound-powered-stove.html#jCp

  • gerard2012

    translated by Google

    My column
    The planet we put the pressure at 1000 ° Degrees steady it down!
    We would like at the time of Ancient Greece this decadent end to a civilization?
    The values ​​and errors of these ancients did they more courses and they do not induce a revolt of the younger generation? As always, the former often become blind and deaf to the changing world, they think that their values ​​must persist and that their design is the best and true. But all the realities and truths are subject operate with their time periods. The basis of time is to say that nothing is ever the same everything changes. Even if they persist values ​​are always reinterpreted and constantly evolving, time takes care of constantly reshuffle the cards.
    No one escapes despite my best efforts I will also one day shift and at least puzzled by my children, and their world.
    But I am certain of one thing: they will reproach us for not having worked enough for the world and the happiness of his creatures, if we had taken the necessary decisions and actions today. If everyone can not do everything we have a collective responsibility for the consequences in the near future.
    We are in globalization, we are in chaos since 2008, why?
    We must move from a world economic expansion, which has always had more land to expand and which abuts a planet with limits in all areas.
    We should move urgently to an economy of sharing and simplicity, is total contradiction with our current system … So here we are in this time of Chaos, both on the economy, demographics, energy, raw materials than on the major ecological crisis in the making.
    All values ​​of living together are not immune to the chaos, injustice, greed and covetousness, which were the engine of this economy and market expansion, are in conflict.
    Imagine for a second that we have a planet twice as extended or that a second planet (Mars, the Moon?), Is accessible as a new continent, the current pressure is much lower …
    Today we have more to conquer Eldorado to “lower pressure” and has to face this crisis of civilization, the house is double-locked … We all feel the pressure that comes from this finite world, concretely in our daily lives, people often express this discomfort before a dying world. Hope that a way out happens before we kill like hungry wolves in a cage …
    Faster than cold fusion LENR can help us blow this mess without much dehumanization.
    Sunday, August 5, 2012
    Death of Martin Fleischmann Martin Fleischmann, co-discoverer of the Cold Fusion with Stanley Pons died this August 3 at his home in Tisbury Great Britain at the age of 85.
    Today “at 06/08/2012 10:57
    The robot successfully Curiosity opens a new era of Mars exploration “The pressure has not finished building on our good old Earth before we have access to these new spaces! NASA is very interested in what LENR n is no accident, it needs a powerful and unconstrained energy to start the colonization of Mars ..
    Martin Fleischmann has already appreciate this kind of recognition he who with Stanley Pons (When is it Stanley Pons?), Led cleared this new exploration fields.
    As I said before I have confidence in the future despite the dogmas and lobbies of all kinds because the policies have no choice but to arbitrate in favor of Cold Fusion and the global emergency .

    in french

    Ma chronique
    La planète nous met la pression a 1000 °Degrés stable elle baisse!
    Serions nous comme à l’époque de cette Grèce Antique décadente à une fin de civilisation?
    Les valeurs et les erreurs de ces anciens n’avaient-elles plus cours et n’induisaient-elles pas une révolte de la jeune génération? Comme à chaque fois, les anciens deviennent souvent aveugles et sourds au changements du monde, ils pensent que leurs valeurs doivent perdurer et que leur conception est la meilleure et la vraie. Mais toutes les réalités les vérités sont assujetties et fonctionnent avec leur temps leurs époques. Le fondement du temps est de dire que rien n’est jamais pareil tout change. Même si des valeurs perdurent elles sont toujours réinterprétées et en constante évolution, le temps se charge de rebattre constamment les cartes.
    Personne n’y échappe malgré tous mes efforts je serai également un jour en décalage et au minimum perplexe devant mes enfants, et leur conception du monde.
    Mais je suis certain d’une chose , c’est qu’ils pourront nous reprocher de n’avoir pas œuvré suffisamment pour la planète et le bonheur de ses êtres, si nous n’avions pris les décisions et actes nécessaires aujourd’hui. Si chacun ne peut pas tout nous avons une responsabilité collective pour les conséquences dans un futur proche.
    Nous sommes dans la mondialisation, nous sommes depuis 2008 dans le Chaos, pourquoi?
    Nous devons passer d’un monde en expansion économique , qui a toujours eu de nouvelles terres pour s’étendre et qui vient en butée d’une planète avec des limites dans tous les domaines.
    Nous devrions passer en urgence à une économie de partage et de sobriété, la contradiction est totale avec notre système actuel… Nous voilà donc dans cette période de Chaos, tant sur l’économie, sur la démographie, sur l’énergie, sur les matières première que sur la crise écologique majeure en gestation.
    Toutes les valeurs de vivre ensemble n’échappent pas à ce chaos, les injustices, l’appât du gain et la convoitise, qui ont été le moteur de cette économie d’expansion et marchande, sont en conflits.
    Imaginons une seconde que nous ayons une planète deux fois plus étendue ou qu’une deuxième planète (Mars, la Lune?), soit accessible comme un nouveau continent, la pression actuelle serait bien moindre…
    Aujourd’hui nous n’avons plus d’Eldorado à conquérir pour faire “baisser la pression” et faire face a cette crise de civilisation, la maison est fermée à double tour… Nous sentons tous la pression qui vient de ce monde fini, concrètement dans notre quotidien, souvent les peuples expriment ce malaise devant un monde en fin de vie. Espérons qu’une porte de sortie arrive avant de nous entretuer comme des loups affamés dans une cage…
    Vite que la fusion froide LENR puisse nous aider à sauter ce mauvais pas sans trop de déshumanisation.
    dimanche 5 août 2012
    Mort de Martin Fleischmann Martin Fleischmann, co-découvreur de la Fusion Froide avec Stanley Pons est mort ce 3 août dans sa maison à Tisbury en Grande-Bretagne à l’âge de 85 ans.
    Aujourd’hui “06/08/2012 à 10:57
    Le robot Curiosity ouvre avec succès une nouvelle ère d’exploration de Mars” La pression n’a pas fini de monter sur notre bonne vieille Terre avant que nous ayons accès à ces nouveaux espaces! la NASA s’intéresse de près au LENR ce n’est pas un hasard, elle a besoin d’une énergie sans contrainte et performante pour lancer la colonisation de Mars..
    Martin Fleischmann a déjà du apprécier cette forme de reconnaissance lui qui avec Stanley Pons (Quand est-il de Stanley Pons?), ont poussé ont défriché ce nouveau champs d’exploration.
    Comme je l’ai déjà dit j’ai confiance en l’avenir malgré les dogmes et lobbies en tout genre car les politiques n’ont pas d’autre choix que d’arbitrer en faveur de la Fusion Froide et de l’urgence mondiale.

    • The English translation does not work. Thanks for the attempt. Wish I understood French.

  • petrolero

    The guy can produce an e-cat that is stable @ 1000000 degrees celcius in his lab for all I care. Until one that is stable @ 100 degrees celcius and produces 1 volt excess energy out in the market where people can see this “science” work in the real world, It means nothing!

    • I wonder how many more previously unknown contributors are going to use different words to make this same facile debating point today?

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        You noticed that too, didn’t you?
        There’s a very strange influx of “new” users today.

        • Ged

          Think NI ruffled a few feathers 😉

    • robiD

      Be patient petrolero. These things require time, it’s not well known physics. At the moment all LENR researchers and entrepreneurs are doing a lot of attempts and tests.
      Meanwhile you could study the difference between Volt and Joule. It requires a few time, but it could be useful.

    • Andrew Macleod

      If it means nothing why comment? Why even read about it? As for proof it will come in time so stating it means nothing without proof is just wasting time or being troll. If you have something relevant to say then chime in!

  • AB

    Defkalion took great interest in a Ni-H LENR product after making contact with Rossi.

    National Instruments took great interest in LENR after their collaboration with Rossi.

    Now Celani presents his own Ni-H LENR device. Remember that in 2011, he attended an e-cat demo and secretly took radiation readings which could allow him to understand a few things about Rossi’s device. Celani started to use nickel relatively recently as far as I know.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Celani didn’t manage to make a spectrum measurement, only gamma count.

      • AB

        Either way, he was convinced enough to start using nickel and hydrogen in his experiments and now also claims to have a reactor that can produce excess heat at the press of a button.

        Edit: with watts of excess heat output, I might add.

        • Ged

          Pretty remarkable string of events, when you put it that way. Everyone who sees Rossi head on jumps into this business themselves. What does that tell us?

          Celani’s demo at NIWeek is definitive, I think we can say; and when put beside MIT’s and all the other work that has been done recently. I think the field is about to burst wide open.

    • Lu

      AR: “With this temperature we can heat the steam up 600 Celsius, getting high efficiencies. In these very days we are working on it.”

      It appears that Rossi is now generating steam at 600C. That’s the next step I believe.

      • Obviously the clues are sketchy, but my impression is that the temperatures AR is reporting are probably for ‘dry’ cores under test conditions during which no attempt is made to harvest power in the form of steam. I think Rossi’s comment may be theoretical at the moment.

        As soon as forced cooling is introduced there will likely be a fine balance between rate of extraction of heat from the core, and maintaining a healthy reaction. This is especially true if the thermal mass of the cores is very small (I believe that just 1.5g has been cited for the nickel content). The wider the core’s stable operating temperature range can be made, the easier it becomes to maintain a balance, and the higher the power output per core. Hence the attempts to increase the maximum possible temperature. A liquid metal bath or a heavy, drilled multi-core metal block could be used to act as a thermal ‘flywheel’ that might help to increase stability.

        • Lu

          The high temperatures Rossi is mentioning is definitely surface temperature. Rossi seems to be hinting that they are now starting with the steam production at 600C.

          What we don’t know yet is the power output, i.e., what kind of heating load these temperatures can produce. We should see that in the September report if not sooner. I suspect that a Hot Cat will be able to produce 10KW but we can’t really know anything for certain until someone else does an independent test. I did some calculations earlier and found that an E-Cat core the size of a D-Cell batter running at 1000C surface produces pretty much 10KW but as you state will it be stable under load?

        • Robert Mockan

          You and I are on the same page. For others interested in this subject I’d like to add to what you say so well, in different words, so newbies trying to learn about this have additional material to think about, from a slightly different perspective.

          In thermal power systems adding thermal inertia can usually be avoided with proper design. Unlike a combustion heat source, or even a conventional nuclear heat source, the primary heat exchanger working fluid temperature would operate between the lower LENR catalyst temperature limit (when it shuts down), and the upper LENR catalyst temperature limit (when it is destroyed).
          When Rossi seeks higher temperature the reason is a higher temperature allows larger heat exchanger temperature gradients, thus more heat can be transferred to the primary fluid, at a higher average temperature, within the catalyst operating temperature range. The thermal inertia in such a system would be that of the primary coolant, and the mass of the reactor core. As Peter Roe points out, the amount of catalyst is so small (1.5 grams for 10,000 thermal watts in the consumer E-Cat), it has no useful thermal inertia. So the primary heat exchanger fluid can also act as the “thermal flywheel”, but only when it is kept within the practical operating temperatures of the reactor.

  • Niklas

    About the Celani experiment, conferences at NIWeek.

    http://lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=353

  • dragonX

    With Rossi backtracking on home unit E-CAT market delivery, there is a new need for assurance from him regarding his technology. We are all feeling this even if many ultra-positive readers will not say it yet.

    I would like to see Rossi’s next move regarding proof of his technology. Before this happens though, black clouds will gather more and more against him… even on this forum.

    • georgehants

      dragon X, It would be very reasonable to accept that as in many cases of certification, delays can occur.
      If like us all, you wait, then more proof hopefully will be forthcoming.
      No black clouds or other emotive words, just natural, well reasoned optimism.
      If you can add any Evidence from anywhere as to the progress of Cold Fusion, that would be good.

      • dragonX

        Each investment (be it in: time, money, emotions, faith, etc.) needs a return. When somebody is getting hype from people for claims of disruptive nature (aka commercial cold fusion) they are influencing people (sometimes important people) on going a certain path regarding those claims.
        If positive decision factors aka people in certain positions (mass-media, politic, economic, etc) feel that their are being miss led, they will redraw their initial good will towards that technology. That is what I call… black clouds.

        You cannot expect to promise something and when you are not keeping your promise to have a positive effect in any community.
        So please, georgehants, do not try to spin a negative development (as the indefinite delay of the home unit ECAT) into something positive. It looks every bit as unfair as what patho-skeptics do in reverse.

        I hope I am not getting moderated “til’ kingdom come” just for expressing my MODERATED views. Repressing someone views just because they do not help your cause is already a sign of weakness of that said cause.

        • georgehants

          dragonX, don’t worry about the moderation it is the machine, bit annoying though.
          Everything must be treated individually and on it’s merits, one cannot condemn one person because another person was a fraud.
          Your fair comments should be addressed to the media etc. and advise them that such a short-sighted, sheep like attitude, is not exceptable from so called professionals.
          Sometimes promises can be a little optimistic, that is human nature, but again, unreasonable to attack every little delay.
          Far more important is, if Cold Fusion is going to appear as soon as possible.
          None of us know about the True Rossi situation, but prejudgement is irrational and wasted emotions, nobody is being fooled, just fair allowance made and follow the Evidence.

    • Renzo

      The delay for domestic e.cat doesn’t make any difference for the industrial ones. So it doesn’t change anything for the time of commercialization and definitive verification by industrial customers.

      • dragonX

        Unless we get positive identification on who are the customers (and their views on LENR technology) of these HEAT plants, we cannot assume anything positive about them.

  • georgehants

    Edmund Storms at NPA-19 What is Cold Fusion and Why Should You Care?
    August 7, 2012 / Ruby Carat /
    The 19th Natural Philosophy Alliance Conference held in Albuquerque, New Mexico featured Dr. Edmund Storms as the John Chappell Lecturer. Dr. Storms presented What is Cold Fusion and Why Should You Care? based on a paper by the same name (…)
    http://coldfusionnow.org/

    • Max S

      I really appreciate the work of LENR pioneer Edmund Storms.
      By the way, are Master Rossi´s disciples aware of what Edmund Storms commented in his paper in J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 9 (2012),1-22 on Rossi´s description of the LENR process as outlined in the patent as “no evidence supports this implausible claim” and “the proposed process is not consistent with what is observed” (chapter 2.3.8) ?
      In other words, the e-cat patent description is questionable.
      It doesn´t mean it is nonsense, but there are fundamentally different opinions of the experts what is going on.

      • I think we are largely aware that Rossi is an engineer and not a theoretical physicist. There are a number of competing theories about the processes involved and at this stage Rossi’s Ni-Cu transmutation theory is no more and no less proven than many others.

        Are you trying to say that because Rossi’s theoretical basis for LENR is uncertain that his devices don’t work? If not, then what is the intent of your comment? BTW, your use of derogatory phrases such as “Master Rossi´s disciples” is probably rather more revealing than you may have intended.

        • Ged

          I also do not think nickel to copper transmutation is the primary reaction. I think it may be a low rate byproduct, a side reaction that can rarely occur, but I think the real energy source is the hydrogen-hydrogen fusion. That would be in agreement with all other experiments and studies on LENR. Transmutation have been seen in other work, such as with Palladium-Deuterium, were cadmium (I believe it was, been awhile since I read those papers) is sometimes created in the palladium metal matrix after long reactions with deuterium.

        • GreenWin

          Peter, ever notice how speech and language patterns function like a fingerprint? Once you have a pattern it’s fairly easy to ID the writer. And some writers keep changing their name trying to weasel in on the action:)

          • GW – yes I have noticed that. I think it must have taken a whole two posts before I recognised ‘maryyugo’ in his then-new incarnation on ECN – just as an example! Perhaps there is some software that could do the job formally.

            I think some effort is being put into muddying the waters around discussion of the proceedings at NIWeek. You may have missed some early deletions today in this connection.

        • Max S

          Give me break. So engineers are allowed to say all kind of nonsense ? And a company that wants to create the energy revolution, cannot hire professionals to do a better job ?
          BTW, the Storms comment was not related to Ni-H fusion, it was related to the positron electron annihilation, positrons from decay of radioactive copper, which is the process as it is claimed. Unfortunately, due to lack of any experimental evidence, this is the weak part of the patent. Now evidence, no patent.

      • Chris

        On the date you cite (and all the more when it was submitted) there was certainly less corroboration than now and, by the words that you quote, it would appear he is refferring only to the patent application anyway. So, what exactly does Storms mean by saying “no evidence”?

        Like Celani in his talk at CERN, he was being cautious and/or inequivocal about not vouching for claims that he has now manner of checking. That is a quite reasonable stance, especially in research communications.

        I too am in no position to vouch for these claims and, furthermore, I would not even describe them as “plausible” but, if one sees a brick levitating and finds no hidden tricks, or if I know that an increasing number of dumb fools have been able to seen it and they ain’t even the dumbest after all, I start to reckon on the fact that:

        implausible != impossible

        • Loop

          If we Hypotheses that Rossi is telling the truth this time, (its very low percentage that he is telling the truth now), someone should ask him, did he managed to sustain the core and steam of single unit to the 1200C or with the multiple units joined.
          He said or somebody who wrote this text “Hot Cats” which imply that he used multiple units.

          The question is if he sustained 1200/720 from multiple/joined units which is the amount of temperature of a single unit in that test.

          Someone should ask him which sealant did he used for sustaining 720C of steam and which sealant did he used for 1200c in the chamber. If he used multiple ecats how come that he is saying 1200c in a core, in which core, (in the last core)???????
          Something is wrong here.

          If he didn’t used any sealant in the chamber does he know which is the air gap tolerance of contacting surface.

          We broke Defkalion story on their forum about sustained temperature of their chamber when they leaked pictures when they used hemp as sealant.

          That was the red flag that they are faking the story.

          Everything is in the details.

          • dragonX

            Although I give way more percentage to Rossi’s credibility than you, I still want to see Rossi being pushed to finally do something CONCLUSIVE with whatever device he has.

          • vbasic

            Yes! Especially after your report about Brillouin pushing full steam ahead and their actions (not hopes or plans but ACTION). Rossi may get left in the dust if he keeps hoping to improve what he has.
            Incidentally, if I was a science writer for a mainstream publication, I think Brillouin would be the first breaking LENR story, I could safely report and probably wouldn’t get me fired for being incorrect.

          • dragonX

            There are 3 incentives that makes Brillouin attractive:

            1. At least in Brillouin’s case we have a known (as in not hidden) Third Party (SRI) that works with him to make his technology commercial viable.

            2. Brillouin participated and will participate to more Cold Fusion social events, getting tested with questions from the other Cold Fusion researchers.

            3. Also, Robert E. Godes is less known by skeptics & media (so in this case.. less toxic) than Rossi. At this point in history, this might help him.

          • Omega Z

            SRI has their own decades long research involving McKubre. The Brillouin deal is a contract through SRI by a DARPA Grant to scale up a boiler.

            This wouldn’t be a 3rd party validation that most want.

            A full Validation isn’t going to happen until certain Entities get all their Eggs in a row.

          • Omega Z

            Most of the Media has given a little lip service to most of these groups. Maybe a 1 time 2 minute window & gone. This provides them plausible Deni-ability of suppression should it break out in public. They wont do a serious report until told to.

            Reading about the goings on behind the scenes, 60 Minutes received a lot of grief & Threats about their Cold Fusion episode from multiple agencies…

          • Hemp fibre smeared with white lead paste was a standard sealant in steam locomotives for a century or more. It’s primitive, but it works. Why is that a ‘red flag’?

            In any case what is the relevance of Defkalion’s prototype construction to what Rossi is doing now? And what does it matter what exact geometry Rossi is using? These seem to be rather irrelevant side issues.

          • Loop

            Its important because you can calculate which is the possible temperature of the core.
            If you ever tested hemp as sealant you would know which is the maximum before the seal breach.
            I tested it with the plasma, and depending to the air gap and the contact surface tolerance you could calculate which is the amount of direct sealant contact to the plasma or with the burned nickle.

            You said “Defkalion prototype”, which is the difference with the Rossi prototype. Rossi doesn’t have the finished product he also have the prototype, by the way Defkalion fake products were 4-5 times on the scale more finished than Rossi products if we compare the single units products.

            Listen we all believe in a better tomorrow, even I stopped believing in this story I hope with all of my heart that in the future something will pop-out as a truth.

          • Ged

            What were the calculations you made? Doing a google search, I’ve found hemp sealants that go up to +200 C, so what was the exact type? We aren’t dealing with plasmas either. At what location in the reactor did you see this hemp sealant?

          • Ol’ Bab

            Loop said: The question is if he sustained 1200/720 from multiple/joined units which is the amount of temperature of a single unit in that test.

            Easy enough, Loop, both single units are at the same temperature, about 1200/720.

            But I doubt 2 or more units are joined in any meaningful way, there’s no point to it. Later, when driving a steam engine/turbine, it may be necessary to take the steam from many units to adequately run one (real, not toy) turbine.

            He may have a bunch of units running at the same time, accumulating reliability hours or whatever, but never cascaded, doesn’t work that way.

            Ol’ Bab, who was an engineer…

          • Loop

            Look at the VIDEO “1MW e-cat Demo Andrea Rossi – Original.mp4” he told to Indians that he could get higher temperature by joining cascading single units, but its extremely unstable and dangerous.
            By his own words he is calling it joining it in “series” 00:54:13

            Because of that fact I asked above question, regarding 1200core/720steam test done with one unit or with units in “series”.

            Thanks god the Indians video leaked to surface, because many things that Rossi flanked with the answers were brought up to the surface.

          • Omega Z

            @Loop

            A single core @1200`C can produce 720`C steam by itself. This is a major improvement over what was possible 7 months ago. When 1 core fed to a 2nd core which fed to a 3rd core. Each core required a separate control then required a control to control the controllers.

            Using a single core & 1 controller greatly improves stability & drastically reduces the cost.

            You could compare these cores to a car engine. Each cylinder works Independently, but provides power to the drive. Not in series, but parallel. Additional cores won’t provide higher temps, but increased volume of steam & pressure.

            Or compare to pushing your car up a slope. A 200# person applying 500# of push on a 3000# car. You need 6 people minimum & more is better. The same apples to driving a turbine with e-cats. It all about scale.

            Anyway, Most of what gets disgust here doesn’t matter. The E-cat has many short comings at this time. The biggest is that it takes an hour to ramp up & down. The ramp up being the real world problem.

            All these entities involved say things that don’t really work in the real World.

            Brillouin says it will have a unit within 2 years that will produce 1.5Kw. Enough to run the average home. NOT, NOT, NOT…

            It’s true the average home uses this amount every month, but that’s averaged over a month. The only way this would supply the average home is if you had a large array of storage batteries. One example here. 1.5 kw =1500 watts. A blow dryer uses about 1200 watts. Throw in a couple light bulbs & you’ve peeked your supply. Forget about the Refrigerator, TV, Computer, & everything else in your home that may be running at the same time.

            Also doesn’t matter that a 10Kw E-cat costs $600 to $1000. If the add-on Generator costs $30K, most can’t afford it.

            Doesn’t matter if Black Light develops a CIHT cell for cars & is cheap. It will take years to get the certifications.

            What does matter is that it works. It’s well suited at this time for Grid power quite possibly less centralized then today. This means less outages & cheaper utilities bills. Cheaper products. We all gain from it. With a few advances it may supply home heating at reduced costs. Improvements in old tech heat absorption systems & it may cool our homes.

            Most of what is speculated on here will take a several decades. A hundred years from now, People may look back & say it was a relatively fast transition. I compare it to the guy who gets injured. He was only in pain for a few minutes. To the injured guy it seemed like hours. That’s where we are today. It’s a matter of perspective.

          • Loop

            Listen you don’t need to explain me anything I know about each aspect you are talking about.

            Neither I need explanation how the cylinders work I know perfectly.

            My idea was to point to people that Rossi is not telling to public did he tested 1200c with one unit or with the units in series.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi has said his intent is to run each core independently. So I assume it was independent.

            As the temps are now pushing the limits, I would think it’s for a combination of flexibility to maintain a stable fluid temp output & to define a breaking point. A Set Red Line. That way you can engage a safety shut down instead of a failed unit. This would be very important to a customer. A need to know before they will commit.

            Just another test. Will have to wait for the small details.

          • Klemen

            Up until now I did believe in e-cat with some reservations. Now that belief has somewhat shifted to disbelief, because Rossi is trying to reach 1200 °C. If what I read from numerous articles on this topic nickel is being transmuted to copper? But copper has melting temperature at 1085 °C. Am I missing something here?

          • Joseph Fine

            Nickel powder remains solid even though a small amount of copper is in liquid phase. There is no urgent reason to operate at these temperatures except to learn how to recover from power excursions that would otherwise lead to meltdowns. And meltdowns are bad for business. He’s only trying to make it fool proof (though he can never make it damn-fool proof).

        • Max S

          you are right. Implausible does not mean impossible.
          BTW, I never said impossible.
          But implausible means not patentable, this is the point that matters.

  • Francisco

    I wonder if it would be possible to get the e-cat hot enough to turn nickel into a gas… If you can do that, then I bet there is no limit on how hot the e-cat could get.

    I guess you would need a way to contain that though. That may be difficult.

    • Ged

      I think that would defeat the purpose, since an intact metal lattice is required for the LENR effect (that is, solid metal).

      Once we have nickel gas, we’re talking about hot fusion, and now we have to deal with a whole different set of physical limitations and problems (kinetic based fusion: upwards of millions of degrees plasma, high pressure, etc).

      • Francisco

        I see… wishful thinking in my part.

        • Ged

          Who knows though, right? I haven’t heard of anyone trying to do fusion of hydrogen plasma within a nickel plasma. Could be a breakthrough for hot fusion applications 😉

  • Petrol

    At 1200c all of that transmuted copper becomes a puddle of goo. Either way I hope this shell game of objective third party validation tomorrow for the last I don’t know how many years ends soon one way or another.

    • Ged

      Actually, you are incorrect, because the copper would not be pure copper, it would be Nickel-Copper alloy. Nickel-Copper alloy is used in thermocouplers for instance.

      A Nickel-Copper alloy of 30% to 70% ratio, respectively, would have a melting temperature range of 1170-1240 C. However, this alloy created by the process in the E-cat (if nickel is being transmuted into copper as a side effect) would have a dominant nickel ratio, making the melting point above 1200 C.

      So, no problem at all on that end, unless more than 60% of all the nickel transmuted into copper, then you’d be dropping down towards 1200 C in melting temp; and once you hit 70% copper, you’d start to melt and the reaction would die. You could think of that as a fuel limit. However, I personally think the reaction is dominantly hydrogen fusion inside the nickel lattice, and any transmutations are a low rate byproduct.

      Ref: http://www.copper.org/applications/cuni/txt_properties.html Table 4

      • Omega Z

        Ged

        I asked Rossi about the Copper melting being a problem some time ago. His response was that the quantity was insignificant. No negative effect.

        Note: The Reason for 6 months run time for refill was the depletion of the secret Catalyst. Not the Nickel.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      At 1200c all of that transmuted copper becomes a puddle of goo.

      It’s a twofer, a valuable byproduct and ‘brain food’ for skeptics, called “GooGooClusters”.

      • daniel maris

        Interesting message from The Man…

        Andrea Rossi
        August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM
        To Whom it may interest:
        After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
        We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • Hank Mills

          This is fantastic news!

          Rossi just trumped all the other cold fusion researchers at NI Week!

          • daniel maris

            Whether you do or don’t believe Rossi, I think we can agree there’s a connection between that NI conference and his message!

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            It feels like damage control, to be honest.
            “Please look at me!” or something.

            Ok, it might not actually be the case, but the timing is unfortunate.

          • Hank Mills

            The timing is GREAT.

            He is reaffirming the fact that no one else has presented a technology nearly as advanced as the E-Cat.

            It is time some of these other cold fusion researchers step up their efforts, and start working to produce kilowatts instead of tens of watts, or less.

          • Luca Salvarani

            I completely agree with you! I wonder what “soon” release means? I hope it’s a matter of DAYS.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            As long as only Rossi’s affiliates or big secret industrial entities are able put their hands on such technology, it’s as good as non-existent. Celani’s more open and transparent methods (not to mention clearer reputation) is more likely to attract competent people and investors able to help him scientifically, commercially and engineeringly.

            If you’ve waded though Cures’ comments (since you mentioned him) you have probably read that even he is appalled by Rossi’s behavior (he often mentions that Rossi’s worst enemy is Rossi himself) and that if he were him, he would have treated this technology much differently, favoring everybody’s benefit rather than personal wealth by thinking in small scale like Rossi does.

            Henry Ford
            “True progress is that which places technology in everyone’s hands.”

          • jacob

            Ivan ,what the heck are you talking about,Mr.Rossi has been given us a step by step play since last October.

            Mr Celani has demonstrated a mere slight increase of overunity a little over 1

            My 2 plate heater outperforms Celani’s

            the Industry gets the E-cat first it is only logical,they will save billions.

            And why should Industry cover up why LENR works.

          • David

            Henry Ford said “True progress is that which places technology in everyone’s hands” when he was already rich!

          • clovis

            HEY,Hank.
            Its my belief that Rossie has always been ahead of the rest of the pack, with validation, demo, and product sales,
            GO Andrea, you de man .

          • Francesco CH

            Competition is competition

          • Hank Mills

            Ivan,

            It seems like Rossi has made very good choices recently, because he has found partners that have helped him to make tremendous progress very rapidly.

            Also, I do not think the news is as good as non-existent. The fact is that the test reports will be coming out. We just have to be patient.

            What I find interesting is that all the other cold fusion researchers have known about Rossi’s E-Cat for a year and a half now, and none of them have been able to show a system producing kilowatts of power. I think Rossi has a very good reason not to give out too much information too soon, because it would be giving away critical data to his competitors.

            None of Rossi’s competitors have anything to lose by doing demonstrations and posting all of their data. They are only able to produce tiny amounts of power. If someone else is able to reproduce what they are able to do, it is not a big deal.

            On the other hand, if someone stole Rossi’s tech, he would have everything to lose.

          • Luca Salvarani

            To Ivan

            I think you haven’t a correct translation of Cures’ words. I’ve been reading his posts, and also tried to ask him something (I’m that “Matematico”). The main differences are:
            1) He would have done a public demonstration to ease the commercial operations but also admites that many things have to be fixed so less attentions would ease all this efforts and gain time over future competitors.. I want to stress that Cures doesn’t seem to be involved in the management but only in the technical and engeneering side… so Rossi has a wider look and Curer understand thae difference between a scientist and an entrepenuer.
            2) He have written that Rossi is doing too much things at the same time.. so it seems that 16 working hours per day aren’t enough.
            Taking all together Cures has a very positive opinion or Rossi! Both as person and as entrepenuer. If I miss something please post me the original italian post which supports your conclusion.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            How would you translate this, from last November:

            Ma il peggior nemico di Rossi à lo stesso Rossi che gestisce la sua immagine pubblica in modo distratto e deleterio per gli affari riuscendo nell’incredibile impresa di far sembrare ottone quello che è l’oro della scoperta.

          • mcloki

            Have you thought that since Rossi isn;t working with NI, that he might not present at their conference. Especially if he’s working with Siemens?

          • Luca Salvarani

            To Ivan

            He’s criticicing Rossi’s way of communication, his “public relation”… not the way he manages the company. This haven’t prevented him to attract talented people or partners, as you state. And in my view Cures was only replying to those stressed Rossi’s inconsistencies… but what Cures can’t admitt is that those inconsistencies are voluntary and functional to gain time over competitors. By the way, as Mills correcty pointed out, Rossi’s rapid progresses heve been really incredible and only a collaboration with smart people and partners would have made them possibile.. Sorry for my really horrible english but I’m in a hurry and here it’s 4 AM…

          • T Lee Buyea – Fla. News Service Miam

            I am now waiting for the Anti-gravity model E-Cat, It will make the flying E-Cat powered cars save on tire wear by hovering above the roads.

          • George N

            It’s in the works, but it will require modifying the entire Standard Model, which is too much paperwork for mainstream “scientists” (originally published in New Scientist behind a pay wall) http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/33973-scientist-creates-artificial-gravity-through-superconductors.html

        • Lu

          This is great. Looks like Rossi is beginning to appreciate the concern for third party validation. Unfortunately for this validation to have any weight, the names of the parties performing the validation, the description of the process, and the results obtained need to be disclosed so things can be properly vetted.

          “Soon” no longer has any meaning for Rossi, unfortunately, as he has used this term before and we are STILL waiting. I look forward to the report but will not get excited about this announcement.

          Well maybe just a little 🙂

          • jacob

            comments like this are a dime a dozen waste of time even reading

            Lu

          • GreenWin

            Lu’s just putting his two cents in.

        • Robert Mockan

          It sounds like whoever is making the catalyst Rossi is using now is directly engineering the lattice cell variables like size, nickel atom orientation, electron band gap, local defects, and so on. It sounds like nuclear active site number is being optimized, like hydrogen has more complete access to the nuclear active sites, and phonon coupling to the lattice is being optimized. And possibly Rossi is “boosting” the activation with more than just “spillover” hydrogen, fugacity, and RF excitation of hydrogen ions in the lattice cells.

          Wish I knew who the scientist was doing the catalyst composition development. That would be a valuable clue to understanding more precisely what he is doing.

          But the most valuable revelation from Rossi is simply admission they can run LENR using nickel (alloy?) at 1200 C. There are not a lot of stable physical variables in metal alloy lattice crystal structures at such a high temperature. By the process of elimination of what is stable, and what not, how the latest LENR catalyst is working can be evaluated even without knowing the exact composition. And from there making a substitute will be feasible.

          Thank you again Rossi. You ARE THE MAN of the hour!

          But I hope he knows others are going to figure out what he is doing before much longer, and takes that into account with his marketing plans.

          • GreenWin

            I hope Ing Rossi gets to read your comment Robert. He should be delighted.

  • barty

    New article by Daniele Passerini about Celani’s Demonstation at NIWeek:

    Google Translation:
    http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://22passi.blogspot.de/2012/08/cu-ni-mn-alloy-wires-with-improved-sub.html

    • Renzo

      thanks, I tried many times but today I can’t publish comments with links, it seems they get marked as spam

      Celani’s paper is at the end of the post and very interesting

      • Pachu

        And the file name of the paper includes: ICCF17, so kinda we get a full advance of ICCF-17 Celani’s presentation and demo.

        Literally at end of paper:
        “The experiment will be stopped on July 28 to
        package and “shipping” the reactor to USA (National
        Instruments Meeting at Austin-Texas) and later-on to
        Korea (ICCF17 Conference at Daejeon).”

        • Ged

          Running it in front of the NI crowd is ballsy, and impressive! Can’t get a more stringent atmosphere than the very lion’s den of experimental measurements and design.

          I am loving this, we so need some information on how this goes during NIWeek.

      • admin

        Posts with 2 or more links get sent for moderation. Usually there is no problem with multiple links, but sometimes they are a mark of spam.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Update by Francesco Celani via Passerini (google translated), containing important corrections and additions to Krivit’s article:

    http://goo.gl/v4Opj

    New Paper by Celani (in english):

    http://goo.gl/K1T0M

    Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as LENR device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter
    Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.

    Abstract — Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of new Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of Hydrogen (H2) and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some possibility to generate anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
    The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, claims by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further investigated. Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen instead of Deuterium can be made and could help the understanding of the phenomena involved (nuclear origin?) because use of such isotopes.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Short summary of corrections/clarifications by Celani to Krivit’s article from Vortex-l mail archive:

      http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg68537.html

      – Celani’s demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek 2012 started, on Saturday

      – On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where it got turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of 55 hours as of writing.

      – The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently stabilized at about 14W

      – Testing performed in front of a wide audience

      – Celani’s testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which was already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)

      • Francesco CH

        V I C T O R Y
        ——————
        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Indeed. But will one word of this truly amazing breakthrough make it to the mainstream media? I seriously doubt it.

          • GreenWin

            At this stage, who cares? The masses have difficulty understanding hammers:)

          • Ouch!

    • So 14/22 W from one wire. Wind say 100 times the length of alloy wire onto a thin electrically insulating layer on a stainless steel tube, place the whole assembly within a slightly greater diameter s/s tube, seal the ends of the annulus and fill with hydrogen. Fire up the process and run a regulated flow of coolant though the inner tube, and voila! – a 1.4 to 2.2 kW LENR reactor. Multiply as required.

      • Ged

        This is an immensely scalable technology.

        • It is. Simplicity is always good in engineering. Celani just needs to work on the COP.

        • georgehants

          Cold fusion’ chemist Martin Fleischmann dies
          Published August 07, 2012
          Associated Press
          Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/07/cold-fusion-chemist-martin-fleischmann-dies/#ixzz22tVLQNHO

          • georgehants

            ‘Cold fusion’ chemist Martin Fleischmann dies August 7, 2012 by PETER SVENSSON British chemist Martin Fleischmann, who stunned the world by announcing that he had achieved nuclear fusion in a glass bottle, has died after a long illness. He was 85.
            Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-08-cold-fusion-chemist-martin-fleischmann.html#jCp

          • Shame Svensson couldn’t find a few words to publish after he attended Rossi’s first demo.

          • barty

            NEWS FROM ANDREA ROSSI – NEXT ROSSI SAYS?

            Andrea Rossi
            August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM

            To Whom it may interest:
            After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
            We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Peter Poulsen

            great! How about some words from that independent nuclear engineer, to relieve out sceptisicm about Rossi’s claims?

          • georgehants

            Peter, I am mystified, why you waste so mush effort, why not just put up a question mark or something instead of repeating the same sentence over and over and over again.
            We shall all know what you are saying and of course take no notice the same as if you write a novel of inept repetition.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Interesting that the last word was from Michael Melich saying Fleishman was an “exploratory genius”. That almost neutralized their (foxnews) idiotic summary of current events as “Research on “Cold Fusion” persists on the fringes of the scientific world”.

    • I wonder if manganese is Rossi’s ‘catalyst’?

      • Ged

        Magnesium is a HCP crystal (hexagonal close pack) like titanium. It has a lattice spacing range of 3.2-5.2 angstroms. Compare this to nickel’s FCC crystal and uniform 3.5 angstrom lattice space size.

        Since titanium seems to have reactions, it’s possible magnesium is useful. It depends on what a nickel-magnesium alloy would look like.

        Interestingly enough, nickel-magnesium alloy is used for hydrogen storage(!). http://www.scientific.net/DDF.297-301.853 this is at a 6.7% nickel to magnesium alloy ratio however; but seems such mixtures have a very high hydrogen absorbance.

  • GreenWin

    Celani’s demo has run 55 hours @ 14-22W excess heat in front of 5000 attendees of NI Week (source 22Passi blogspot) NI Week shaping up to be a full-on assault on LENR deniers.

    IGZ-2013 Resistance is futile.

    • Ged

      It really is. We need to get information on everything that goes on there regarding LENR now. This is way bigger than I had hoped or thought, even from the latest itinerary list! May even be bigger than ICCF-17 for practical purposes.

      • LCD

        COP ~1

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          More like COP 1.3

          Not much compared to the big players, but still better than “~1” and scientifically significant since we’re speaking of watts, not milliwatts (NANOR of Peter Hagelstein is reported to have larger gains, but in the range of milliwatts).

    • Pachu

      Frank, this should be main post, not Rossi’s says, kinda tired of Rossi’s says…..

    • AB

      Somewhere a skeptic fainted reading this.

      • dragonX

        Not yet, I assure you. Knowing skeptics, they will probable say that they will believe LENR to be commercial feasible only when they can boil eggs with the EXCESS heat.

      • Renzo

        did you read our old friend Maryyugo comment on Krivit’s post? 🙂

        • dragonX

          Well, I’m sorry to say it buy Maryyougo is right in that post.

          • Ged

            Actually, no, Maryyougo’s questions are easily answerable just by using our own heads.

            1) Measurement error? Not at these levels above background, at a conference by a major measurement supplier. This would be checked out and verified to the extreme. Watts is well above any error thresholds at the levels we’re talking about. Even the milliwatts of MIT are.

            2) Raney Nickel reaction? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raney_nickel Raney Nickel is a nickel-aluminum alloy that can burn in air due to the large amount of hydrogen that easily is absorbed by it and its redox ability. It does redox chemistry by using that hydrogen or the nickel itself for reactions with organic compounds.

            It isn’t going to be generating useable energy (reduction is the transfer of energy from the Raney Nickel to the organic compound, so it’s a potential energy loss, and not much of a heat generator), let alone watts of it. And a steady feed of organic compounds would be required to continue reactions, or it would peeter out in a matter of moments. The wires used are not Raney nickel wires, and it is not in a chemical bath.

            As S calculated in the previous article, the energy release is above the chemical energy density of hydrogen by at least a few orders of magnitude, pushing it into the realm of nuclear energy densities.

            –As for the second post by that person: look at the device, it IS a calorimeter. The reactions are going on for over days, that handedly rules out all chemical reactions, as we’ve already discussed. More wires aren’t used, as we are talking about the simplest case. If more were used, Mary would complain about that! As a scientist, I’m sure Celani has done blank runs; that’s basic control data. In fact, we can do that ourselves, by taking such a wire and letting it just sit there; nothing special will happen. I’m also sure all readouts are calibrated (this IS an NI event after all, and we are talking about a scientist); that wasn’t even a question, but an accusation based on nothing.

            So, it’s easy to use our heads to answer these questions; some of which are not even questions but just pretentious statements. Nothing to see here, as usual.

          • AB

            Celani uses isotan-44 wires (cu-ni-mn). That has nothing to do with raney nickel indeed.

            Also the cell has an inactive wire built in that acts as control afaik.

          • Ged

            You’re absolutely right, AB. Exactly how a well designed experiment should look.

          • Hody seems to have an obsession with Raney nickel. It has featured in many of his ‘debunk’ attempts over the last year or two, as have the specious ‘measurement error’ suggestions. Feasibility seems not to matter, just so long as some doubt is introduced for the less technically knowledgeable.

          • dragonX

            What many of us are waiting is for the Cold Fusion scientists to stop repeating like parrots that Cold Fusion exists and to just scale up the devices enough to open the eyes of the most redneck skeptic out there. As it is now, this did not happened yet.
            And if Celani had the chance with this presentation to bring a scaled up version of what he brought to NI Week, it is very sad he did not do it. The question is why? He can’t scale up the wires? Why give skeptics a CHANCE??? Why keep this field in only tens of watts, when you can show hundreds or thousands of watts?

          • Ged

            Because, Dragon, Celani is a scientist, not an industrialist. We scientists are largely reductionist in our approach: we try to get something working in the -simplest case- to eliminate all confounding variables, and that is what we present as proof. A scale up would not be a scientific way to approach it at this point.

            Celani’s work is trying to elucidate how this phenomenon operates, hence distilling it down to as basic a reaction as feasible. He’s doing things the right way from the scientific view point. His work does not give “skeptics” a chance (at least not the type and level we are familiar with), if they would actually read it.

          • Ged

            Here, Dragon, take a look at Celani’s paper http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf . It addresses all the concerns raised at New Energy Times. Kinda makes me sad, I almost want to make an account to tell them about this and answer each question from the paper (for instance, Celani is measuring heat as determined from radiation of heat exchanging outside the entire device, it seems, and the wire is in open air at times (and put under inert argon with hydrogen at other times), so it’s not doing any sort of reactions like Raney Nickel or it would combust; also the wire is pre-burned at 600 C to get rid of all chemical/plastic residues prior to use), but that place is too… I dunno, just too silly for me.

          • GreenWin

            Ged, it appears the kirvit is torn… Get in on the disclosure action, or stay in the negative space he’s created for himself. Had he bothered to fact check and report openly without personal bias – he might have readers. Instead he looks like an unhappy blogger with a big chip on his shoulder.

    • Peter Poulsen

      I dont see many LENR deniers. I see many who doubt the grandeous statements from people like rossi. It seems silly to keep talking about these breakthroughs without ever providing proof of anything to back it up.

      I honestly hope we are close to a energy revolution, but im not like the fools that are treating rossi as a hero, eventhough they dont have any scientific proff, that he isnt just talking out of his ass.

      • fauno’s

        @peter poulsen:tu sei l’asino che da del cornuto al toro…

      • GreenWin

        Funny, that’s exactly the way millions of global taxpayers feel about 60 years of hot fusion promises – no proof of anything useful. And it’s cost us $250 Billion for the dis-privilege.

    • artefact

      Celani will bring his reactor also to the ICCF.

      From his new paper:


      The experiment will be stopped on July 28 to
      package and “shipping” the reactor to USA (National
      Instruments Meeting at Austin-Texas) and later-on to
      Korea (ICCF17 Conference at Daejeon).

  • admin
    • I’m not sure about “Research on ‘cold fusion’ persists on the fringes of the scientific world.” but otherwise, good on them.

    • Visitor

      Please everybody, Don’t lose hopes for a better future or in reality of CF, Don’t forget we still have BlackLight Power and Energetics Technologies whom have already proven thier technology by third parties. Start aiming your focus on these serious guys and stop falling for false illusions web promoted by stakeholders.

      Do you realy think that people whom have invented such a major breakthroughs would be conducting PR for themselves 24/7? A man like Rossi should have been standing on the United Nation’s podium aside of presidents saying “ladies and gentlemen, I’ve found the way to save out planet” long time ago. He didn’t.

      What I want to say to Mr Rossi and all others unproven ones is – If You Wanna shoot, shoot! Don’t Talk!

      http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-793467

      http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electricity-generated-from-water-blacklight-power-announces-validation-of-its-scientific-breakthrough-in-energy-production-2012-05-22

      • I’m not sure that many people are losing hope, Visitor. Quite the reverse I think. The more the merrier, as the old English expression goes.

      • Hank Mills

        The E-Cat technology is already proven. It was proven over and over again in 2011. The tests conducted proved that massive amounts of excess heat can be produced by the E-Cat.

        I’m not losing hope at all, and in fact, I am more hopeful than ever. We have heard from inside sources such as “Cures” that the E-Cat is now capable of producing temperatures (in a totally stable manner) of over 1,000C. With these temperatures many forms of heat to electric conversion become practical.

      • GreenWin

        Hi Visitor from…

        Indeed Randell Mills’ CIHT technology will be seeing daylight just as Ni+H and a few others will. There is PLENTY FOR EVERYONE. After all there are now 6.5 billion humans on earth all of whom need energy. You have mentioned Energetics Technologies third party validation – are you referring to Rob Duncan’s work for CBS and now the Kimmel Inst for Nuclear Renaissance (at Univ Missouri??)

  • GreenWin

    This is fascinating. Over at “Next Big Future” that occasionally reports on LENR, they are censoring any mention of NI Week and the successful Celani demonstration. Subversion of the US Constitution and the Fourth Amendment is a federal crime. Subversion by an sworn officer of the State or Federal government is an act of treason. As the Queen of Hearts is dear to saying, “Off with their heads!”

  • > unless he is completely insane

    I don’t know about you but I feel a little insane for peeking in to see what’s happening on e-catworld for so long. You would think that by now I would get the message that this guy just is never ever going to produce any device that leaves his private secret lab and makes it into the real world.

    • Ged

      Time lines, my dear Ponzi, time lines. We can gripe about that as soon as Zurich is over, and if the deadlines for the licensees in October are not met (within reason).

      • Data will be presented at Zurich. Data in and of itself is meaningless. I can present data that I have a car that gets 200 miles per gallon. Unless I show you the car and let you test it the data (look it gets: 200 mpg) is useless. The presumption that licensees exist only proves there are people out there willing to participate in Rossi’s operation.

        • Ged

          The 3rd party validation will be presented at Zurich. But there is a demo of something (electrical power generation using low heat, but unknown source?) also going on.

          October is supposed to be the licensee conference (unless Zurich is replacing that) where they will get a full run down of the technology, to start sales.

        • georgehants

          Charles Ponzi, do you think it might be sensible to wait for the event before making pointless comments.
          Your example, if I may say at this stage or the story is infantile.
          I look forward to reading a good comment from you sometime, or if you think, that as you say you are insane watching, could I suggest, not watching.

          • G_Zingh

            Two independent reports both of them saying basically the same thing? If these are from credible sources and the reports are made public in full.

            It is time for Rossi to hire a PR person to manage all the press he is going to get.

            Andrea Rossi
            August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM
            To Whom it may interest:
            After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
            We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

        • Lu

          Except if included with the data is the name of a respected person, group, or company and that entity doesn’t deny the data. Then we have something. To me the identity of the tester is more important than the actual data.

    • I am fascinated by the many different ways that the sudden influx of skeptics find to say exactly the same thing using such a variety of tangential approaches.

      • Hank Mills

        Not all of them are skeptics. Some of them actually realize the E-Cat works, because they are competitors. They are terrified of the E-Cat, because it makes their technologies look pathetic. So out of desperation they are making up usernames and posting negative comments on every blog that is supportive of the E-Cat. They are determined to “muddy the waters” enough so that Rossi’s progress might be slowed, so they can figure out how to make their cold fusion devices actually produce practical amounts of power.

        • GreenWin

          Spot on Hank. And for those who are not competitors they are paid disinfo guys with various agendas. Nuclear fission, hot fusion, and fossil fuel companies want to slow down progress til they can get in via M&A, stealth or (heaven forbid) their own research!

          But as you point out, they will be far behind the e-cat and may have to settle for a license deal to enter the game.

        • jacob

          Rossi understands the opponents very well,it is in knowing their next move,that is why he has always been a step ahead ,those that are digging a hole for Rossi have fallen in it themselves so far.

          Rossi strategy is working very well.

          Whatever happened to Dick Smith,did he buy an E-cat?

          Dick please tell us ,pretty please.Thanks in advance.

          • Omega Z

            Dick Smith s probably busy trying to unload his Cap & Trade shares.

    • Hank Mills

      You are totally wrong. This technology is going to change the world. No other cold fusion device on the planet even comes close to the E-Cat. Just wait until the highlights of the report comes out at Zurich, and you will see the truth: that the E-Cat technology is powerful, robust, and a total solution to the energy crisis.

      BTW, we are not insane for following the E-Cat. We are forward thinking and open to new ideas. The insane ones are the pseudo-skeptics and cynics who have dismissed cold fusion technology for so long.

    • jacob

      Ponzi,for piet sake take some sleeping pills and wake up in December.

  • AB

    Why Celani’s demo is very important:

    It’s a nickel-hydrogen reactor, that seems reasonably stable and starts with the press of a button. While Piantelli’s original cells had roughly comparable power output and good stability, they could not be easily started and many never produced any excess power. Their paper speaks of having to having to induce drastic changes in input power and pressure to get the reaction going.

    Other LENr experiments are typically also slow and difficult to start.

    That Celani is confident to make demo in a public convention speaks volumes about his confidence in the stability of the reaction.

    In these three aspects Celani’s apparatus is similar to the e-cat even though the technology is probably somewhat different (and the e-cat is *seemingly* more advanced).

    • georgehants

      Thanks AB, reading lots of comments but was not sure about what had happened and its meaning, you have put it in easy terms.
      Did it show a measured excess of energy output against input please.

      • Ged

        Yes, by 20-14 W excess thermal energy, as measured outside the entire device by radiative exchange.

        • georgehants

          Thanks Ged, now I understand the excitement.

    • Hank Mills

      The E-Cat is much more advanced that what Celani demonstrated.

      I find it interesting to watch all these various companies try to play catch up to Leonardo Corporation. I’m curious what Defkalion is going to present, and if it will match their previous claims of 650C and a COP of 30 or more. I doubt what they present will even come close to what we know about the E-Cat. My thinking is that they clearly exaggerated their claims in the past, and what they show will probably be a fairly weak system.

      • Peter Poulsen

        But Celani is doing something rossi aint. He is showing the public that his device actually works.

        • cx

          Completely agree

          • Hank Mills

            So you too are unaware of the dozen or so tests that took place in 2011 that proved the E-Cat produces massive amounts of excess heat?

            Those test prove the E-Cat can produce huge amounts of excess heat. In fact, they prove that if allowed to operate in an uncontrolled manner, the E-Cat can produce a COP in the hundreds. Now, test results are about to appear that confirm the E-Cat can produce very high temperatures.

            The E-Cat is real and works.

            Recognize it.

        • Hank Mills

          Rossi showed his devices worked in 2011.

          He showed they worked a dozen times.

          Over and over again his devices were tested. They were tested by various engineers and scientists around the world. Also, different models of E-Cats were tested, and they all worked!

          • GreenWin

            Hank, you waste your breath on programmed deniers. Think of a wind up monkey. They do and say the same thing over and over again.

          • barty

            Maybe, but we, the quiet observers, can’t check if this claims are right.

            We need some independened test results.

            I hope one of the licensees will do more drum up the business!

          • Peter Poulsen

            I followed the news about the tests in 2011. As exiting as they were it was a completely closed test where those who publicly attended wasnt showed much. And then there were secret people who were allowed, according to rossi, to see everything.
            All the tests rossi have made has been very closed and secretive.

            The difference with celani is that his device has run at a public university for everytone to come and see, and he have just showed it at a public conference without any limitation. To me that is more valuable as proff compared to rossi’s.

            Again im not saying rossi is a lier, but i wont pop the champagne until he gives irrefutable proff of his claims… and he HAVE’NT done that yet.

        • jacob

          Peter,you have only seen a picture of Celani .and some text,but you chose to believe him without doubt.

          • dragonX

            I guess that talks about the credibility Rossi has with the general public. You see, there is always this thing about his previous encounter with the law that bother people.

            On the other hand Celani is a professor and a researcher like Fleischmann and Pons.
            If it will not be for Focardi, Rossi will be without public even now, no matter what “tests”. I guess, at some point, being in an open and peer review environment like these researchers, DOES matter to reputation.

          • jacob

            X,to me peer review equals a box of bananas,these researchers are usually funded by the status quo establishment following accepted theories.

            To out of the box thinkers Rossi has extreme credibility.

            to the wind up monkey ,or according to mainstream science ,Rossi is speaking a different language that is misunderstood as dabadu idonknow ithinkiguess butuknow gaga do.

            previous encounter with the law ? oh so Rossi isn’t perfect,then who is?

            The general public doesn’t have a clue about LENR,or about Rossi.

          • Peter Poulsen

            dragonX

            “If it will not be for Focardi, Rossi will be without public even now, no matter what “tests”.”

            For me its all about the tests that have been made. If he would have let researchers examine the test thoroughly without any limitations then i would trust Rossi, but the only man who was allowed that was some secret guy, who may or may not be in the military. For the public that just shouldnt be good enough.

            There is a very big difference of open rossi have been about his invention and how open Celani have been. And for me that makes Celani more trustworthy… atlest until Rossi can show a a public test without all the secretivity and closedness.

          • Peter Poulsen

            I have seen a device that have run for weeks at a public university, and have just been showed at a public conference without any limitation. If it was a scam then people would come out and say it.

            All rossis tests have not been public and very secretive.

          • Omega Z

            If you did some real research on who’s involved & where the connections lead you would probably have a different take on this.

            You would have a better idea why from the beginning that North & South America & the U.S. Military market were to be left to Rossi.

            You would realize that TPTB have either decided to allow this technology to come to market or there is a Major Divide among the TPTB.

            The Connections have a World wide reach, but have Major Connections in North & South America & the U.S. Military.

            These people are connected to DARPA, NASA, Spawar, DOE, DOD, NAVY & many more. They are connected to hundreds of businesses in the Western Hemisphere. These people are involved in multiple partnerships & Multiple titles, & most or all have Personal connections to each other directly for nearly 2 decades at least & many have personal association with Rossi for at least 15 years. Many have or still hold positions in the above list.

            These People are the Power behind the Power. Without them nothing gets done. Kind of like a General without an Army. They are working with Ross behind the scenes. They are also Highly aware of Brillouin & BLP among others. They arrange the Financial backing of these people.

            You will SEE what they want you to SEE WHEN they want you to SEE it. Not before….

            There’s Several Corporations that people had determined a couple years ago weren’t associated with Rossi in any way. Guess again. Digging deeper you find he was partner or Co-Founder of them. Want to know which ones. Do the research. But you wont find anything researching LENR or E-cat. Most direct connections have been scrubbed. There now behind walls where names are no longer available to the public. They fall outside the FOIA or public disclosure.

  • Well Done Rossi , Keep it up!!!