Rossi: Now Able to Use Gas, Not Electricity to Drive E-Cat

Andrea Rossi has just announced what would seem to be an important breakthrough in the development of the E-Cat. In a comment on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today, Rossi said:

We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.

This would be an important breakthrough for a couple of reasons, in my estimation. First, heat from natural gas is going to be a lot more economical than heat from electricity in many parts of the world — and especially in places where reliable sources of electricity are not available. One could imagine in some parts of the world a tank of natural gas, or propane could be installed close to an E-Cat plant to provide the heat drive necessary to control the reaction.

The second reason, it seems to me, is that if the E-Cat itself is producing so much thermal energy, it may be possible to find ways to reuse some of the thermal output to provide the heat necessary for the drive. Now the E-cat may not work that way, so that’s just a guess on my part. Or it could be that you might be able to have a small separate E-Cat supplying the thermal power for a larger one.

Rossi also mentions here that they are ‘very close’ to high temperature steam production. An E-Cat producing electricity is going to be much more versatile than one producing heat only. Of course the usual ‘Rossi says’ caveats apply here — that should go without saying.

It’s certainly been an eventful week so far on the LENR front!

And by the way, what is this?

Hot Cat pic from 'Cures'

  • Kim

    Frank could you post that picture
    of the 1200c reactor front and center.

    Please verify source.


    • Francesco CH


      • admin

        I wonder if Rossi knows about these little releases of info.

    • barty

      The picture is from an employee/researcher of Rossi.

      Should be trusted.

      • HHiram

        If Rossi’s latest claim is correct, one major implication is that it rules out several of the competing theories for how the physics of LENR actually works.

  • “Of course the usual ‘Rossi says’ caveats apply here — that should go without saying.”


    The truth is that we don’t need yet another announcement from Rossi saying that his little lab has made something better. We need for the scientific and business world to realize that LENR is real, and transformative. We need 100,000 engineers working on LENR, rather than the handful we have. That will make the change.

    The problem with Rossi is “Rossi Says”. This technology needs to get out of the lab and into the public eye. Real scientists need to be able to measure it, and report on it.

    I know that Rossi has let people prod it from a distance. I know that MIT has a public demonstration that anyone who wants to can check out. I also know that MITs demonstration has been viewed by shockingly few of the MIT student body and staff. I know that the resistance to LENR is incredibly deep.

    I wonder what would happen if Rossi produced a few thousand of his little e-cat. I wonder what would happen if he abandoned his need for UL certification, but sold them, or gave them, as experimental to labs all over the world. Would these guys figure out that there’s something real going on in the little box? That might spark the revolution.

    I would also suggest to Rossi that he manufacture e-cats for sale in countries that don’t require certifications. Countries in Africa come to mind. Let these guys have the new technology, and let the safety freaks realize that they better get off their high horse or the 3rd world will overtake them.

    • dragonX

      “I would also suggest to Rossi that he manufacture e-cats for sale in countries that don’t require certifications. Countries in Africa come to mind. Let these guys have the new technology, and let the safety freaks realize that they better get off their high horse or the 3rd world will overtake them.”

      Your third suggestion is how things should get done. While Rossi is trying to get the certification in US or Europe, I am sure that some poor countries will appreciate his business without the certification fuss.

    • Ridiculous. Without a patent, Rossi will be ripped off the moment he allows his reactors to be tested by other scientists. MIT offers no comparison, as their device doesn’t produce electricity aqnd couldn’t light a 10W bulb. Rossi has puit every cent he has into his work, while the MIT device probably cost a few hundred dollars to put together. Let Rossi stay on a roll, as he is, until he’s ready to rock ‘n roll! Ten it won’t be “Rossi says” but “Rossi does.”

      • Barry

        I get tired of hearing people downplay the NANOR. It isn’t about power. It’s a cold fusion device that could actually be studied and measured in a classroom instead of a lab. IT GOT 10 – 14 TIMES COP. People are trying to figure out what is going on on a nuclear level. They have to study the phenomenon. The NANOR, which isn’t even at MIT anymore, was never meant to power heating units or light bulbs. It is a revoulutionary, class room research model.

        • Barry

          Ps Get the facts Joe. An incredible amount of $ has gone into the NANOR. Mitchell Swartz has been working on this for over twenty years. Look up his site- Cold Fusion Times. He is also working with palladium. $.

      • Washington

        Eu acredito que AR está em perigo. Ele deve vender seu invento para várias empresas o mais rápido possível. Tal invento que eu acredito que seja verdadeiro, pois, acompanho desde o inicio o seu trabalho, mudará a matriz energética mundial, tanto de geração elétrica, quanto consumo de combustíveis fósseis. Caso tenha acesso a este pequeno texto AR, por favor, coloque para o planeta esta magnífica descoberta o mais rápido possível – Você mudará o mundo poluído e com o controle nas mãos de poucos, para um mundo limpo e mais justo.

    • Jordi Heguilor

      We don’t need Rossi to give away 1000 e-cats.

      We need to see one that works besides on staged demonstrations.

  • zero

    The photo of the “Hot-Cat” was taken on a Nikon Coolpix s5100. The date the photo was taken is 7-16-2012 as far as I can tell the photo was not altered in any way. I don’t know how the date of the photo coalesces with Rossi’s announcements but I thought I would put it out there.

    • Ged

      That date actually works very well, as we know there was a report on the hot-cat done around that time, or even earlier. Rossi also got kinda quiet over those days.

    • Peter Poulsen

      thank you zero that is useful information.
      The date especially is important.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Here’s something I don’t understand. Mr. Rossi said:

        “I wake up every morning around 5 a.m. with the fear to fail, and this fear to fall is what gives me the strength to fight to survive through our technology, making real work with it. It is not a matter of chatters and converences, it is matter of life or death. So do not worry: it will be not very easy to stop us: 14 watts do not stop 1 MW.” Warm Regards, A.R.

        Since Mr. Rossi claims to have invented the greatest technology in history, something that will transform life on earth, and since he claims to have succeeded in producing a 1 MW working plant and is busy making a second one, why does he wake up with the fear to fail? Moreover, why does he say “it will not be easy to stop us” when he’s already won the race?

        I’m not saying he hasn’t done what he claims to have done, but it puzzles me to hear him talk as if he’s not really there yet.

        • Kim

          He knows that he has only awakened the monster.

          He is preparing for the real battle.


        • barty

          Maybe he has nightmares about the oil mafia 😉

        • GreenWin

          Or academic Mafia. Or government Mafia.

          • Kim

            Organized Crime in one basket.

            All of the above.


          • Stephen Taylor

            Or entrepreneurial, real world, money balance, competitor status, who got burned on the reactor yesterday problems?

          • The 2nd one? Govt.

        • Lu

          I’m sure when he started out a few years ago, he had no idea where he will end up. The pace of his accomplishments is probably hitting him right now. Imagine being in his shoes.

          He is also probably due for a vacation–recharge his batteries and his vision!

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            Updated Zurich meeting program. Find out the differences:


            New E-cat licensee for Germany unveiled:

            Potential markets for the E-Cat-Technology in Germany
            Gerd Neumann, New Man Consult, Kaufungen/GEname

          • mikes44

            Big News Here .. the Germans will ramp the E-CAT up very quickly !!

        • The man is simply driven to succeed. I suspect he craves more than money but also recognition by and the respect of the academic community. He is the type of person that will always rise above adversity. Nothing, short of death, will stop him. I am envious of such people. I suspect that to a degree the persecution (I perfer that to prosecution) he experienced in the Petroldragon affair did him some damage.

          • Lu

            I don’t know if people realize this but in his youth, Rossi was Italian road-running champion in 1970, and in 1969 held the Junior World Record for the 24-hour run. That takes a lot determination and will and we are seeing it now as well.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Wow, that is a very interesting fact. Much overlooked. Thank you for pointing it out Lu. I seem to recall him describing this current quest as a marathon. (Relatively easy compared to a 24 hour race.)

          • Omega Z

            The Skeptics use the Petrol-dragon deal to attack Rossi.

            This would never have happened in the U.S. because of the ex post de facto Law that we have.

            Many of Rossi’s patented Technics developed for the Petrol-dragon Waste Recovery or a form of, are used today in the Bio-Fuel developments & waste recovery we have today.

            They also like to bring up the Thermal Electric device that didn’t pan out.

            They Omit the Fact that the U.S. Military brought Rossi in for that research. The Project was to see if it could operate at 20% efficiency & be done cheaply.

            The Results was that more Material Science needed to be done & would take time. Also Mass Manufacturing processes & precision production needed improvement.

            This was all laid out in a 150 some page Report by the Military. It also Stated that Rossi was actually able to build a single unit by hand using expensive materials that did accomplish approximately 20% Efficiency. It just wasn’t able to be done cheaply or mass produced because of the above.

          • Van den Bogaert Joannes

            To LENR believers,

            Do not forget the catalyst in the Ni-H transmutation reaction.
            Potassium metal coming e.g. from potassium carbonate can react with hydrogen and form negatively charged hydrogen ions (H-). These ions tunnel through the nickel electron shells and reach the positively charged nickel nucleus (see Piantelli published US patent application
            (Fig. 5). The H- ions can be produced by heating potassium hydride above 400°C. (see comments on E-Cat Builder Site).

    • Omega Z

      @ zero

      I believe that’s the exact date (7-16-2012) Rossi gave in one of his blog answers to someone along with another date of importance..

      • H. Skip Robinson

        Congrads again Andrea, Many are pulling for you.

  • georgehants

    Herb Gillis
    August 10th, 2012 at 2:03 PM
    Andrea Rossi:
    There are some large solar thermal-electric plants that use molten salt as a means for storing the solar energy so that electricity can be generated at night. If you can reach temperatures in the 600 C to 1000 C range then it stands to reason that the same idea could be used with the hot Ecat for generating electricity. As such; it seems to me that a molten salt reservoir could be used to provide the “drive” (either electrically or thermally). All one needs to do is heat up the initial reservoir of molent salt. This could be done using conventional heat sources, but after that the system should be able to operate independently of any external drive. The salt pool becomes the buffer, and Ecat could drive itself. Does this sound reasonable? Regards.
    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2012 at 3:04 PM

    Dear Herb Gills,
    Good thinking, is an idea to work with.
    Warm Regards,

    • Stephen Taylor

      Translation of Cures description via vortex (thanks S.A.)

      [The reactor] is composed of two coaxial steel cylinders. The internal space between the two cylinders contains an electrical heating resistance and the reaction chamber with the active material. The cylinder bases are sealed with heat resistant sealant for blast furnace use. Pressure sealing is not needed. The whole has been painted in black to increase emissivity and can withstand 1200 °C.

      The photo shows a phase of the measurements

      At the time of this photo, the average outer surface temperature was 801 °C, with local hot spots of 873 °C. The inner surface temperature ranged from 1100 °C to over 1200 °C. Two electrical heating resistances in parallel (the 4 visible cables). Value of the resistances in parallel: 6 Ohm. AC (50 Hz) input voltage of 147 Volts. Current consumption 24.25 Ampere. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Heat power irradiated by both inner and outer walls, assumed equal for a total of 13.39 kW, including the average ambient temperature of 35 °C. Inner wall of bright white color, unapproachable under 1 meter of distance because of hot air flow. Outer wall measured by thermal camera with 2% measurement precision. Inner wall measurement by laser thermometer from a 1.2 meter distance by the shaky hand of a person who didn’t want to get cooked. Conservative, rounded down values due to heat taken off by convective flow estimated to be at least 8% on the outer wall and low irradiation cosine for the inner wall due to high irradiation angle toward laser thermometer (pointing almost in axis with the inner cylinder).

      Stable reaction, without strange happenings. Virtually boring.

      COP raises when 1000 °C are exceeded on the outer wall. [Fuel] consumption is that of a [nuclear] fusion reaction, that is, almost nonexistent. A proper estimate would require to turn the thing on and then taking a very long vacation before verifying the actual consumption.

      For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that data are preliminary and that inner cylinder measurements will have to be remade with less shaky methods than a laser thermometer, in order to improve results as it’s a delicate measurement, since the inner surface is in contact with the air heated by the surface itself.

  • Kim

    Kind of Reminiscent of Captain Nimo

    When he showed his crew members the furnace
    that powered the nautilus.

    20.000 leagues below the sea. ect…

    Yes ?
    No ?


  • barty

    Why are there 4 wires?
    Does it really need 4 heating resistors to ignite?

    And why is the plastic insulation still unspoilt?

    • Ged

      The plastic insulation is pretty far away, and shielded by that block. Depends how long its been on to radiate out that far, and what convective cooling is going on. The vertical metal bracers on either side of the device seem to show heat damage though. Can’t tell about the galvanized (?) beam the device is resting on, as the shadow obscures it, but seems to be some heat damage along the bottom most beam where there is enough light to see discoloring. I’m not a forensic scientist though!

      Not sure what exactly those wires are doing either, since there’s two pair (could actually be one wire on each side that simply loops back, and looks like two). Could be each pair is acting to heat so you get heating from both sides of the cylinder. I would bet they are platinum, since that seems to be a common heat-by-resistance wire, and has a melting temp of >1,700 C

      • barty

        Yes, it looks like the radiation heat is damaging the paintwork.

      • Lu

        Ged, I’m curious about the resistive heating wire. Isn’t it radiating heat equally along it’s entire length including the length outside the reactor? In that case some of the electrical input is wasted –and from the size of things it looks like at least half of it. Does that make sense?

        • Lu

          After thinking about it, they may wrap the reactor even more than once so most of the energy will be around the reactor. Some may dissipate in the leads but it may not be much compared to the rest.

    • hammerskoj

      The wires have high temperature silicone rubber insulating coat.

  • mark saker

    Wooohooooo check out that hot cat running……hot!

    • Stephen Taylor


  • Stephen Taylor

    Engineers and technologists among us: looking at the picture and having read the description do you see the beginnings of a shell and tube heat exchanger? Ever seen the ammonia chillers and such that are about 10 meters long and about a meter in diameter with all the tubes inside? Boilers are made like this too??
    Anyway, the pictured reactor is just one pipe inside of another slightly larger pipe with the reactants in the space between them. The two pipes are sealed at the ends. So make them ten meters long and put about thirty of them spaced inside of a (roughly) 1 meter diameter heavy pipe (the shell) and pump heat exchange medium through the inside of the tubes and around the outside of the outer tubes (inside the 1 meter shell) and you will have about 8MW thermal coming out with 2MW electric input all in the size of a 10 meter long 1 meter diameter heat exchanger. Now, of course we take the heated liquid medium (or superheated steam) to the conventional turbine. 40% of the 8MW is 3.2 MWe output for 2MWe input. I’ll take that 1.2MWe net output with no fuel and a simple conventional turbine/condenser! If we can use the heat from the condenser to do something useful so much the better.
    If we have 50% self sustained operation it is much better of course but even without that we have a nice package that will fit on a flatbed truck and generate over 1 MWe with no significant fuel cost, no CO2 and no nuclear reactants or waste products.
    Early days.
    Looking at that picture and realizing that the hot whitish red center is the glowing inside surface of that inner pipe is an attention getter. Reminds me of looking through the site glass of a big industrial furnace. Don’t get burned!

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      I think your idea could replace fuel rods in nuclear fission power stations.

      • Robert Mockan

        Rossi should be able to improve his E-Cat much more. Presently the coupling efficiency at the system level of input energy to output energy is appalling. What does this mean? The specific heat energy in 1.5 grams of catalyst he says he is using in the high temp E-Cat is less than 800 joules at 1000 degree C. Now keep in mind that power in watts is joules per second. When Rossi says, just for example, that he needs to input 3000 watts of power (electrical or thermal, same thing) every 30 minutes to keep the E-Cat running, he is saying that it needs (3000 joules/second)*(60 seconds/minute)*(30 minute),that is equal to 5,400,000 joules. Note the energy ratio here, 6750 to 1! Obviously Rossi is using thermal input energy to do much more than maintain, or vary, the catalyst internal heat energy. Celani has shown that internal heat energy of his hydrogen loaded wires is sufficient to cause LENR, and thermal power generation, for many hours. Rossi most likely can improve his E-Cat again by using more of the LENR generated heat for internal system functions, and reduce the external sources of heat energy. Even using gas, if the E-Cat does not need as much, that would be a significant improvement. Or in other words, replacing external electric input with external gas input is good, but needing less external input altogether is better.

        • Robert Mockan

          The concept of “coupling efficiency” may be confused with system COP. Not the same. Coupling efficiency has to do with how much energy needs to be input into just the catalyst to keep it working. When we already know that LENR catalysts can self sustain (function without external energy into them), to have a 6750 to 1 energy ratio at the “system level” in the E-Cat is ludicrous. Rossi undoubtedly knows this, but may be stuck with embedded engineering constraints. He may need to do some more design work on the E-Cat for his next big improvement.

          • Barry

            Is this the HotCat???

          • It does resemble a boiler steam drum cut in half for heat tolerance testing.

    • hammerskoj

      COBRAF/CURES site has overcharged and now is off-line.

      • The site is still online.

      • Luca Salvarani

        To all

        Daniele Passerini on his blog (22 passi) has CONFIRMED the Cures leaks and photos! Here’s his original post, in italian:

        Daniele Passerini (22passi) ha detto…
        Ok, grazie a Cures ora avete visto anche voi l’E-Cat a secco. Carino eh! :))
        E io passerò alla storia come il blogger più bravo a non fare gli scoop visto che ho il vizio di rispettare le richieste di non diffusione. Evidentemente Cures ha avuto via libera. Evidentemente Rossi sta davvero per svelare le sue carte… il titolo del mio post è stato azzeccato!!! 😉
        10 agosto 2012 20:26

        PS In the next weeks I’ll try to ask Cures something else…

        • Sanjeev


          Daniele Passerini (22passi) said …
          @ all
          Ok, thank you too Cures now you have seen the E-Cat dry. Cute huh! :))
          And I will go down in history as the bloggers do not do good at the scoop since I have the habit of respecting requests for nondisclosure. Apparently Cures has been greenlit. Apparently Rossi is really to reveal his cards … the title of my post has been guessed! 😉
          10 August 2012 20:26

          • Wes

            Any source of heat should work; heat is heat. I am preparing to patent several customized heaters for the e-cat module; The Campfire-Cat (wood fired), and “Cat-on-a-Hot-Tin-Roof” (solar powered). The magician Rossi distracts from the central issue; what is the COP? Next week: “The Pocket-Cat,” powered by cigarette lighter!

    • daniel maris

      Thanks for that explanation – sounds a lot more convincing than Al’s.

    • Omega Z

      @ Stephen Taylor

      He uses the 10Kw Core sizes for a reason. But I suspect these same cores will eventually produce 20Kw.

      If you need more Kw power you add additional cores in parallel.

      10 meter cores may never be reliable because of the way the process works.

  • I suspect that this is a test of a new core material. I see no need for a large quantity of nickel powder to be used. It would be sufficient to use a ceramic that provides the same or similar micro structure as the nickel once did to provide the nest for the reaction. The ceramic need only contain enough nickel as there is hydrogen available for the reaction. That way you can push the temperatures up to greater temperatures provided the nickel does not evaporate. Notice in the photo on the extreme left side, there is a very small area where the clay like material is not covering the reactor and you can see it glowing red.

    • Stephen Taylor

      That looks like the red hot surface of the exterior of the outer pipe.

      • Sanjeev

        The pic makes Rossi’s claims more believable. Looks good…

        I wonder why there is no gamma ray shielding here and as the report says people are measuring it from a few meter distance. It can cause problems.

        Can someone ask the source about this ? Did Rossi also get rid of gamma? 🙂

        • joe j

          I think this was a mistake, Rossi should have released news of the 1500 ecat before the nat gas ecat which would have bought him several additional months lead time.

        • Luca Salvarani

          X Sanjeev

          According to Cures the (quite short) distance is due to very hot air surrounding the device.

  • Omega Z

    A Note of Interest.

    10 August 2012 16:09
    @ Lmwillys:

    Doubts about the conspiracy theory: if they did it out for Mallowe Fleischmann and Pons, Rossi, who is invulnerable?Or the killers in 2012 decided to give us a break and we will get back to New Year?

    @ Cures:

    But there is someone, besides Rossi, who could repeat the machine Rossi, though
    Rossi disappeared?
    There is a back-up?

    • Omega Z

      Would like to add

      According to Cures this is just a phase measurement test on the Hot Cat.

    • hammerskoj

      Translation is wrong.
      … did out for F and P, and now is Rossi perhaps invulnerabe?
      There is a back-up?

      Cures answer in the post with the image of reactor:

      X Nevanlinna:

      He [Rossi] told me he has already thought about ….

      • hammerskoj

        New COBRAS post on security of e-Cat know-how

    • hammerskoj

      Last news:

      Andrea Rossi
      August 11th, 2012 at 3:35 AM


      • Luca Salvarani

        This is a game changer news! It will kill all skeptics forever|!

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          It will kill all skeptics forever|!

          Skeptics could deny a gigantic flying saucer landing at the Super Bowl….but maybe not after they were abducted.

    • barty

      Photo was made in Bologna, if you compare the grounds:

      • Good work!

        And looks like like an electric heater shaped like a rocket.

        I might make one at home and take a photo. ha

  • Supervisor

    One small question: Where is pipe with hydrogen supply ?

    This gadget is looking and behaving like HephaHeat

    • Francesco CH

      If you have carefully followed the development of the E-Cat, you should know why there is not any “pipe with hydrogen supply”.

      • Niemand

        Metal Hydride was always mentioned strictly only with e-CAT and commercial e-cats was always mentioned as “different tech”.

  • Stephen

    One question: once one can supposedly drive an eCat on gas, i.e. direcly on heat… why not having a self-sustained reactor with COP infinite? That would be the killer demonstration/application.

    I kind of remember there where problems with stability? However like with electrical power I am quite sure one could tune the heat fed back into the reactor and keep the whole thing stabile… isn’t it?

    About the “what is this”… well given the information we have it could be basically almost anything. Seems hot 🙂

    • Stephen

      I remember AR tried to run self-sustanined already… but forgot what was the exact problem in the past. I wonder if now it might be different…

    • Niemand

      This is possible this interpretation:
      Burning gas is driving small Siemens turbine, which is universal capable running on hot gases and steam too.
      So starting last gen e-cat with burning gas, producing heat, after start period, produced hot steam is directed to turbine, where turbo-generator is producing electricity. Half or one third of produced electricity is looped back to e-cats units. So maybe is gas only for start purpose only.
      This is only low probability hypothesis.

      • jacob


  • jacob

    Hello everyone.

    Many thanks to Andrea Rossi for continually driving the

    advancement of his E-cat technology for current and future implementation

    in industry and eventual domestic application.

    While the rest of the world argues about why LENR works or how it works
    or which of the theories of hundreds of possible reasons,

    Rossi is presenting actual working E-cat for sale to us,and before long with his backers ,there is billions of dollars to be made ,and it is save to say ,that the E-cat will be profit driven.

    Profit driven meaning unstoppable.

    Driven by greed and money just like oil.

    So it is obvious E-cat wins OIL takes the backseat. Eventually .

    • s

      From what was posted, an interpretation of the COP is 13.39/3.56 = ~3.76. This is not to be considered the actual COP but a best guess based on what was posted. Any comments on this?

    • Oliver Harris

      What about that unmonitored earth wire an Aussie engineer has pointed to on the E-cat? Can we sure about all this until it is confirmed that it does not carry significant current?