Rossi Statement on 'Cures'

As a way to summarize the mysterious Cures affair, I am including here a statement from Andrea Rossi in which he provides detailed information about the previously mysterious leaker.

Note that Rossi says that in addition to Fioravanti, six professors from two universities were involved in the July 16 testing. The first statement about the tests is in connection with a question about when the University of Bologna will be doing the testing mentioned by Rossi yesterday.

Dear Antonella:
About the tests: the precise dates will be decided in an agreement that we should reach at the beginning of September: obviously we have to accept their needs.
About Cures: He has been identified as Domenico Fioravanti, it appears that the data from the test made on July 16th comes from him. If it is true, it is due to an excess of enthusiasm for the results, that have been obtained in a test directed by him and by 6 Professors from two Universities. The data had to remain confidential, but he could not help to talk about this event and the remarkable results.
He is making these tests as a Consultant of a military Customer of us and now probably he will have problems for the leakages, even if I do not think it has been so important: sooner or later the same data will be published. I knew Ing Fioravanti when he was a Student of the Politecnico di Torino ( the Engineering University of Turin, Italy) because he was making a research for Prof. Cesare Boffa (one of the best Engineering Prof. of the time) regarding the new technologies of Electrostatic Precipitators. It was the year 1976 and even if I was 26 years old, I was at the times considered an expert of the sector, so I gave to Domenico Fioravanti much papers I had wrote and he also visited the electrostatic precipitators I manufactured in my factory of Caponago (Milan, Italy). Then we never met again. After 35 years (!!!) I received an email from him in the blog of the Journal, in which he congratulated for the E-Cat, and for me has been a delighting surprise to hear from him again. I contacted him privately and he explained to me that he was a Colonel Engineer, expert of missiles tests. One year later, when with our Military Customer we had to choose a neutral Consultant for the test of the well known plant of 1 MW, I proposed Fioravanti, whom they knew very well, because he worked with NATO, with the Pentagon at the highest levels and always for engineering connected with thermodynamic tests ( mainly nuclear carriers’ heads tests). So we all have been glad to choose him.
His intellectual integrity and his knowledge of the matter has allowed a job that has been considered highly professional from all the parties involved.
This is it.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Kim

    When Einstien wrote down E=MC2

    We had 2 choices. Atomic Bombs
    or Home water heaters.

    Why is everyone surprised and confused
    about the Home water heater option?

    Energy is unlimited, but unfortunately
    mans brains and emotions are not.

    Respect
    Kim

    • Peter Poulsen

      My apoligies but that is a pile of crap you wrote down just there Kim.

    • Stephen Taylor

      I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis Kim.
      Peace,
      Steve

      • Kim

        its Obvious we are all being held
        hostage slaves

        I’m tired of living like a refugee.

        Respect
        Kim

        • Kim

          When I look at the picture of the reactor
          The first thought that came to mind was
          the fact that it was very hot.

          1200 C.

          This device has to be rather simple.

          The electrodes have to be able to substain solid state
          to at least 1200 C.

          I’m sure that Rossie has found a Ceramic that can contain
          both the Nickel and the Hydride.

          The Ceramic Material is ignited with 147 volts at 24 amps

          Takes about 1 hour for the whole process to come up to speed.

          Reaction Sustains, but must have periodic input of electricity
          to stabilized.

          Anything that cannot sustain 1200 C. turns to liquid state.
          so this tells me that the amount of components after the
          electrodes is very limited. 2 maybe three at best.

          This is a very simple device to make, but you have to know
          the ceramic recipe, and a few other things.

          I believe thats it.

          I bet this picture has the elites pretty excited.

          This is paradigm changing, no less.

          Respect
          Kim

        • Stephen Taylor

          I hope you mean the whimsical, musical variety rather than the actual war torn, starving, undernourished nearly expired variety that is all too common globally.

    • Peter_Roe

      To be honest I’m not sure I would have wanted an ‘atomic’ (fission) heater in my bathroom. But to be fair I don’t want any share in atomic bombs either.

      • GreenWin

        I think Kim suggests had we not rushed down the fission road thinking it the only way to obtain energy from the atom – we might have found the F&P effect sooner. Good news is we have found nuclear-type energy without release of devastating radiation. And unity rules have been broken. But then, people who make “rules” gotta understand most will eventually be broken.

  • I think it’s reasonable that Rossi should propose and the customer accept Fioravanti as the intermediary, especially given his service with NATO and his apparent fluency in Italian. I doubt that Rossi forced him on anyone. I for one am glad to know more about him!

    • Stephen Taylor

      Me too Joe, it was great to get the details and all seems consistent with what Rossi has said and done generally in this drama. It all makes pretty good sense.

  • Stephen Taylor

    @Robert Mockan or anyone who is interested in the calculations to estimate the power being generated by the reactor in this picture:

    i.imgur.com/4XlY2.jpg

    Cures said (link in next post) the outer surface temperature is 800C and the inner surface temperature is 1200C.
    I estimated the inner pipe diameter as 4cm, the outer pipe diameter as 12Cm and the length of the reactor as 36cm.
    Using Stephan-Boltzman constant 5.67^-8 Watts/(M^2 T(degK)^4 and the equation:
    P=AkT^4
    where P is Watts, A is area, k is the constant above and T is the temperatures above in degrees K.
    I calculated 590 Watts from the exterior of the reactor and 1700 Watts from the interior of the reactor.
    Something is wrong with my calculations or my very limited understanding or both. Any help will surely be appreciated.

    Here are the calculations:

    P outer = (.1356 Meters^2)(5.67^-8 Watts)(7.7^10) = 590 Watts
    P inner = (.0452 Meters^2)(5.676-8 Watts)(6.7^11) = 1700 Watts

    As I have it only 2,900 Watts.

    Any input will be much appreciated. Cures comments are in next post.

    Trying to learn, thanks,

    Steve

    • Stephen Taylor

      Cures comments possible misunderstandings my error.

      http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg68781.html

      • Robert Mockan

        What is exciting is that COP going up at 1000 degree C. Higher COP at higher temperature is consistent with some of the theory used to explain LENR. Any body have any info about what the new COP is?

    • MK

      I do not get this: (7.7^10).I assume you subtracted 237 from the 800°C I feel correct should be: Temperature in Kelvin= 273K+800°C= 1073K From this it is 1,326^12K^4, leading to 10191W for outer surface.
      I would not calculate for inner surface as only the hole where the radiation can be “seen” is emitting surface.
      10.2KW is pretty close to the claimed data.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Ooops! That certainly helps! I went the wrong direction converting C to K. That will change the fourth power of the temperature dramatically.
        Also, I see what you mean about the hole being the surface to calculate from so I will use that area times two for the open ends and work through it again. Thanks MK!!!!
        If you have the patience for me I wonder how you view the usefulness and limitations of this type of calculation as applied to the reactor in question. Thermodynamics is over my pay grade and any input will be appreciated. Thanks again.

        Steve

        • MK

          I feel the calculation is OK. I do not do these calculations on a regular base ,too. But I know from using IR thermometers that the radiation coefficiant is typically in the range of 0.8 to 0.95 for non (bare)metallic surfaces. For the surface I see I would guess something about 0.9. Which would mean we stay in the interesting range ~9KW.

          • Stephen Taylor

            I calculate 670 Watts from the holes so they seem not important. Looks like 10 kW? Interesting then.

        • Stephen Taylor

          Thank you. This is helping me to understand. I guess adding the energy from the two holes using 12.5 cm squared on each open end for 25 cm squared at 1473K will give us a bit more?

          • Don Witcher

            The Stefan-Boltzmann constant is (5.67*10^-8) instead of (5.67^-8) as your post has it. I think that’s your error. That will give you 10.19kw for the outer area. I did the calculation using smaller dimensions for the cylinder and came out with roughly the same number for the total that Cures did.

          • MK

            I read 5.67^-8 as 5.67 E-8 =5.67 *10-8 and I feel thats how it was meant.

          • Stephen Taylor

            I have a lot of difficulty writing equations from a keyboard. Also the different conventions. You are both right of course. Don, did you use only the outer cylinder surface area or did you add the “holes” on each end?

          • Don Witcher

            I see now that you used the constant correctly.
            Yes I did use the area of the holes(my area estimates) and got about 2kw. With your area I get 1.86 kw with a temperature of 1423.15K. I also did the calculation for the dark end areas which is worth about .6kw. I don’t know whether you included that in your area or not. I do wish we could get some real dimensions. However I think we have come close enough to verify Cures numbers

          • Stephen Taylor

            Don, no I did not use the end areas around the holes and I could have/should have. So, using a smaller total surface area you came up with about what Cures did. About 13kW or so. This is very good news. I still am botching the calculations but will get it down now that I see your examples. Thanks very much to both of you.

          • MK

            Yep, I get ~3,1KW. ( 12,5cm diameter->0,011304m^2; A=(d^2*Pi)/4 )

          • Stephen Taylor

            Thanks again MK, I think we are all saying it looks like a very interesting reactor and we await more data and verification.

    • You need to convert the Celcius temps to Kelvin by adding 273. The calculation of the radiation from the interior space is complicated as the geometry must be accounted for via a shape factor, which I don’t want to bother with this morning. You might just use the apreture areas of the inner pipe and multiply that by two as a rough attempt to account for the shape factor of the inner shell geometry.

      • Stephen Taylor

        Got it, thanks, still working to refine what I can. Still making some mistakes here and there. The big silly mistake was subtracting 273 instead of adding. At the fourth power of that error is is significant. Hehe.
        Thanks Zedshort,
        Steve

      • I meant to add that the power calculated should be multiplied by an estimated emmissivity or 0.9 to 0.95 reducing the results. In addition I don’t believe they were saying that the power out of that particular test was 14 kW but it is capable of producing that power when supplied a coolant.

        • Stephen Taylor

          I wonder what it could do if they did use oil or molten salt coolant and push the reactor to highest practical power output. Maybe we will know this one day. We wait.

          • If this is used to turn a turbine, the ideal fluid is water at a pressure high enough that there is little boiling. No need to use some intermediary fluid as that just reduces the efficiency when you then transfer the heat to water via a heat exchanger. If the power output per unit can be raised a little and the temperature output kept above 1200 C at that power output, these little demons could be used in place of the fuel burners in aircraft turbine engines.

          • Robert Mockan

            If Inteligentry Corporation is for real, and they demonstrate their engines at the Florida Power Gen conference, we will never see LENR used to power aircraft.

            http://inteligentry.com/

            “We are also starting the development of a new “Patent Pending” 12 Cylinder
            engine design, expected fall of 2013, based on the “Dyna Cam” construction
            type. The later is expected to provide over 3000 HP in a package the size of a
            beer keg. Our technology may bring this old engine design to life as we do not
            need air breathing, valves, etc. nor cooling, and thus this should be light,
            simple etc.. We will see. Expected power is 3000 HP and uses from Rail road,
            Truck and commercial power > 3 MW. Weight will be under 250 lbs.”

            3000 shaft horsepower from a completely self contained engine weighing under 250 pounds? As a power engineer you know that is impossible, but so was LENR for many people when they first heard about it.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Robert,
            I agree the Papp is a trump card. No waste heat, direct mechanical output, clean, near zero fuel. Again, we wait.

    • Peter_Roe

      At 800C metals are at bright red heat, which the outer casing clearly is not. In fact by the lack of optical distortion normally visible close to a very hot surface in still air, it does not seem especially hot at all, indicating some kind of insulating layer under the casing.

      However if the colour rendition is good, the inside could be at the temperature stated, or perhaps a bit lower. I do a bit of amateur blacksmithing so I have some idea of how hot metals look.

      • Stephen Taylor

        The metal is red hot. Look on the left side edge of the reactor face. There is a small dot where the insulation is missing. You can see the color there.
        He said the black is used to increase emissivity. Hmmm.

        • Peter_Roe

          Stove/exhaust paints are good for about 650C. At 800C, i.e. bright red heat, they burn off quite quickly. The red dot you mention seems to be right at the edge of the outer tube. I’m not sure what it is but I would be very surprised if it was red-hot fireclay showing through some kind of super-paint.

          • Stephen Taylor

            I think it is the metal surface of the outer pipe where the black goo is missing.
            Whatever the coating is the temp resistance was mentioned somewhere. Also, “special materials” has been mentioned. $$$

    • Robert Mockan

      Thank heavens there are a lot of smart people here! Checking your calculations I took the temperature in Kelvin you gave without checking to see if it had been converted properly from the centigrade, with the result I got your answers. But reading these comments here I see it should have been 1073 K and 1473 K, not 527 K and 927 K. I’m not usually glad I’m wrong, but this makes my day. Thank you! Go Rossi!

      • Robert Mockan

        cancel

        • NJT

          You fellas are brilliant and work together beautifully – the old saying “two heads are better than one” certainly fits here…

  • hammerskoj

    It seems to me that Rossi has a very peculiar sense of melodrama and is wise don’t weight every words he says on his blog. Cures is a TRUSTED insider and his identity was clearly stated a long ago: see my post of July 30, 2012 at 7:58 pm.
    Keep an eye on the the Rovereto factory of the owner of Proia/Prometeon srl web page.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Keep an eye on the the Rovereto factory of the owner of Proia/Prometeon srl web page.

      Wasn’t Rovereto the location of the Cipriani Profilati company which was rumored to have connections with Prometeon, possibly the first company to use e-cat reactors in an industrial environment?

      • hammerskoj

        Yes.
        In the address of Prometeon substitute .com for .it

  • Sanjeev

    http://shutdownrossi.com/?page_id=759

    Gary Wright has published the leaked emails.

    • WaltC

      “the leaked emails”: maybe this is obvious to most people here but can you expand on which emails you’re referring to?

      I find Gary Wright’s web page painful to wade through– too much noise & too little signal– so it would be helpful to know in advance if it’s worth the effort.

      • daniel maris

        ONe wonders if it is deliberately painful, so he maintains control over the message.

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          Good point.

        • Andrew Macleod

          I’m pretty sure Gary’s a$$hole is jealous of the sh*t spewing out of his mouth.

          • Jim Johnson

            That’s unnecessary, and impairs the value of this site.

      • Sanjeev

        You can simply click that link above. The emails are screenshots, so you don’t need to read everything.

        • WaltC

          I actually *did* click on the link and got a bunch of ranting (and no email). I clicked on an “email” link on that page & got a bunch more ranting (and no email there either). I gave up at that point. There was no “simply” about it.

          • Frank

            If you want to read that e-mails, you just need to click on the link (given by Sanjeev), then wait a few seconds till your browser has loaded the page, then scroll down that page (no need to click further on any other link – it’s a very long page)

          • WaltC

            Frank,
            Thanks, you are far more patient than I am– 19 page scrolls down & there are some email images after all.

            To Sanjeev’s original posting– the emails don’t appear to have anything to do with the original topic, “Rossi Statement on ‘Cures’” (again I was not very patient in reading through more than the 1st few emails) but more to do with Wright’s “case” against Rossi.

      • Peter_Roe

        Likewise I can’t really be bothered to plough through Wrights stuff. Perhaps someone will be kind to us all and drop a summary here?

        • Sanjeev

          del

        • Sanjeev

          I wrote a summary, it went into moderation pit.
          Here is a summary of summary:

          -Wright’s accusations are all BS.
          -There is no new info there except the 1MW plant for the non-military customer will be ready in Oct.

          • Sanjeev

            And that the certifications will be completed in Aug.

          • Thanks. I wouldn’t expect much else from Wright.

      • Stephen Taylor

        I think Gary Wright is not an entity to be taken seriously. This is a personal judgement based on all from the beginning of its involvement in this drama. It is a negative entity. It seems to wish most for attention.

    • Andre Blum

      I quickly scanned through them. There is little entertainment value in there.

      The lengthy format it is presented in, accompanied by lame comments by Wright (=Krivit, according to Rossi), only confirm one thing: there is no one big smoking gun. You will have to follow and go along the (way too negative) thought process of Wright to agree that there is a scam going on. Also, it does not seem to have much to do with Rossi himself. If anything, there is some clumsyness in Rossi’s Australian counterpart.

    • vbasic

      @Sanjeev There is nothing there. Wow! ‘Gary Wright’ is the worst (if that’s his real name.) At the same time he thinks Rossi has nothing, Wright starts another website, for open source lenr. How can LENR be real, but Rossi can’t build it? Wright can’t know Rossi’s abilities or limitations. Maybe he’s attacking the one closest to commercialization, since Wright knows his personal quest for an open source version might be damaged.
      The stop rossi site is so bad I only check it about once a month. Maybe when the ecat is successful , Wright will be forced by reality to shut the site down.

      • Sanjeev

        Well, my posts are now going in moderation. I agree there is nothing serious there.

      • Andrew Macleod

        Gary’s site is a joke! It’s a personal attack on Rossi himself not on lenr. The “leaked” emails are taken out Of context. The NDA he posted as proof of fraud is standard NDA stuff you would normally see. All of his evidence is circumstantial or from perspective. He also demands proof from Rossi regarding the ecat yet calls him a fraud with no proof. There are some special posters over I’m glad don’t frequent this site. Shills and trolls. I actually feel dumber from viewing his website, and I’m Not that smart to begin with.

    • Sanjeev

      Peter, I read the emails and in my opinion, so far none of these point to a scam or even anything remotely shady.

      On the contrary the guy Robert seems to be setting a trap to get more info etc and escapes NDA, does not reveal his location, phone or any other names. He even asks for personal favors, as if trying to test Roger Green’s character and honesty. The only reasonable thing he asked was to allow his people to test the plant. It looks like Rossi’s licensees are not testing the tech before investing and are relying on Rossi’s promises.

      Roger Green seemed to be a simple man trying to set up a deal. He offered more shares and even an escrow.

      There is no new info there except the 1MW plant for the non-military customer will be ready in Oct.

      It looks like to me that Wright has some sort of enmity towards Rossi and is trying to spread disinfo and doubt by over-interpretation of the emails etc. It’s possible that Robert and Wright are the same person.

      • Thanks Sanjeev. You’ve saved me (and everyone else) time I would have regretted losing by reading his trash. Very strange person.

        • Frank

          Certainly – if one is too modest to do his own reading, then he has to rely on the summary/judgement of another ones (one trust?).

          • Peter_Roe

            If you have read through the emails and come to a different conclusion, why not post it here. Otherwise I am happy to assume that Sanjeev has it right, just as I am happy to accept summaries by Admin and other people I have come to believe are reliable (you are not yet among them I’m afraid).

      • Stephen Taylor

        Thank you Sanjeev for going through it and reporting. The information is slightly more than I expected but not more troublesome than all the rest we have been through.
        I hope the 1MW plant will benefit greatly from the delay. Of course, this is why the customer is not in a hurry. The customer mainly wants the technology developed. When it is ready, the customer will test it thoroughly over many months.
        If Rossi’s licensees are putting money down without testing *something* they may be taking more risk than necessary.
        I agree that Wright has some sort of enmity or some agenda and it is vile.

  • Andrew Macleod

    I’m very disappointed….. For some reason every time I comment now I goes into moderation….I have been frequenting this site for a long time now I can only sumrize that I’m flagged…..

    • admin

      No, you’re not flagged, Andrew — it’s just certain keywords put posts in the moderation queue.

  • Joe Varcadipane

    I find it humorous that Gary Wright goes out of his way to try and prove that Rossi and this technology is a sham with the help of the mysterious RobertK.! When he has a web site posting 100+ emails of fabrication from Robert K to Mr. Green. He is validating the reason behind the many firewalls put in place by Rossi et al. How can he, with a straight face, continue to point his finger at Rossi and supporting his argument from someone who lied about who they were, for whom they worked, their intentions, motives and the premeditated tactics to fish information from Mr. Green and Rossi. Who is the individual that has a credibility problem?
    It would seem from the emails written by Robert K that he spent a great deal of time in wasting everybody’s time with fake lawyers, meetings, co workers, Fortune 400 executives, committees, IT departments and 24 world wide offices. It is amazing to see the act of corporate espionage being played out, right in front of our very own eyes! Who else has this Robert K fished for proprietary information? Now that is the real story!

    • GreenWin

      Desperate motives, require desperate actions. Rather pathetic.

    • Where am I going to find space on Andrea Rossi’s t-shirt for Gary Wright and Robert K?

  • dragonX

    Let’s hope that this E-CAT guessing game will stop by the end of the year. According to Rossi he says that “many publications are on their way, all signed. Many independent tests are going on.”
    So, if they are signed we should know who the third party testers are. Of course, in reverse, if nothing appears by end of year, even against Rossi’s promise, we should ask Rossi where are they and take everything he says with a grain of salt.

    See bellow, answer from Rossi:

    Riccardo T.
    August 12th, 2012 at 3:21 PM

    Dear Dr. Rossi,

    I was 24 when Fleischmann & Pons shocked the world with their discover.
    Since then I was one of the many that hoped for this new science and suffered (yes, “suffer” is the right word) for the offense of the “mainstream” science to the few ones that with poor funds coninue researching in this field.

    You represent for us (I think my feeling is rather common) the fullfill of a dream lasted more than twenty years.

    I just ask a simple question trying not to ask too much. You told that the report you will present in Zurich was prepared by six (or nine??) professors and an engineer.
    You will be able in that event to discover their names or at least the name of the university/company they are working for?

    That would be a wonderful gift for all the “dreamers” like me.

    If so I will drink “alla sua salute” the best bottle of spumante.

    My best wishes for your hard work.

    Thank you

    Riccardo
    #

    Andrea Rossi
    August 13th, 2012 at 7:21 AM

    Dear Riccardo T.
    Many publications are on their way, all signed. Many independent tests are going on.
    Warmest Regards,
    A.R.

  • s

    If, and it’s a big if, the email about the 1MW plant still waiting to be delivered at some time in the future is correct, this might be a VERY serious item. There might be websites claiming these 1MW plants are for sale and they meet certain operating parameters.

  • from time to time, mainly for skeptics and the like, keep in mind this:

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510

    • Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2012 at 12:27 PM

    Dear Luca Coppola:
    Do not worry, we never waived our capacity to manufacture indipendently our plants, and this is the reason why we have success now: we do not need funding, we are funded by our Customers; should I base our development on “funding” coming from gorillas or governments probably I would be at the point to produce an excess power of 14 watts ( should the Sun shine through the windows…).

    As I always said, an inventor without a manufacturing system is like a general without an army, whose will is unavoidably limited by the will of the generals with armies.

    We are making enormous progresses in these days, thanks to the fact that we can take fast decisions in our factories, without a single cent of funding from gorillas and governments which could limit our space of action or delay the time terms.

    It is thanks to this that now LENR is a reality based on solid plants and not, as it has always been before us and still is outside our concern, a laboratory toy where everybody is so happy to produce some watt lightyear far from making real work and without the anxiety of real working plants.

    You know, when you play the little genius in a lab without any necessity to make real money through real work you can satisfy yourself with 14 watts. If you have to pay installments, you need real plants, and you gotta do them, if you want not to have troubles.

    I wake up every morning around 5 a.m. with the fear to fail, and this fear to fall is what gives me the strength to fight to survive through our technology, making real work with it.

    It is not a matter of chatters and conferences, it is matter of life or death.

    So do not worry: it will be not very easy to stop us: 14 watts do not stop 1 MW.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.