Rossi on the Zurich Meeting, University Report

Andrea Rossi was asked today on his JONP site, “when we can be told the name of the scientific journal that will publish the report you plan to present in Zurich on Sep 8.”

Here’s Rossi’s response:

Thank you for your important question.
My speak in Zurich will regard the report of the tests made on the 16th of July and on the 6th of August made basically for the product certification in course for the Hot Cats. This report will be published by thechnical and specialistic publications after the 9th of September, by the scientific journalists who will attend the meeting.
The rigorous publication deriving from the third party validation that we will make, as I said, within October by a University will be made by the professors who will make the validation, so I do know where it will be published. Please do not ask me which will be the University, I am under NDA and, by the way, three Universities are candidates for this work, should the one that has been chosen since now will retreat for any reason. We have to respect the rules and the decisions of the Universities, who, obviously, do not depend from us. I can anyway say that the test made on the 16th of July has been made with 6 professors of 2 Universities, but unofficially: it has been a preparatory test.
I am under a strict NDA for this test, whose results will be published in the context of the Certificator’s work, not of the Universities.

From what Rossi says here, and what he has said in the past, we can expect two reports — the first one will be the one which will be published in September which is based on testing done during the certification processs,and which Rossi will discuss at the Zurich Conference, and the second one will come from a University. Rossi here is exercising some caution as to which University will be publishing the second report. In the past he has mentioned Bologna, but now won’t say, mentioning three possible candidates.

Rossi has also said previously that the September report would be published in a “scientific magazine” — it looks like he is expecting journalists at the Zurich meeting to report on what goes on there. While that sounds likely, I’m not sure that we can entirely count on that happening, since we are still waiting for the Associated Press article to be published about the October 28th test last year, to which they sent a science reporter. We’ll have to see how it all pans out.

UPDATE: The University of Bologna’s Official Magazine published this statement today.

August 27, 2012

Statement by the Vice Rector for Research Dario Braga and the Director of the Department of Physics Paolo Capiluppi

Following the statements appeared in some media about an upcoming release from the University of Bologna of measurements results made on Mr. Andrea Rossi’s device called “E-cat”, the Vice-Rector for research, Professor Dario Braga, and the Director of the Department of Physics, Professor Paolo Capiluppi, reiterate to the press what was stated as early as January 2012, and that is that there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna and the EFA srl and that there are not measures underway nor scheduled on Mr. Andrea Rossi’s device called “E-cat” at the University of Bologna.

The University of Bologna restates, however, its full readiness to make available its expertise and equipment to make measurements on the production of heat from the device, at the condition that the results are public and disclosed.”

  • Renzo

    Today the university of Bologna has issued an official statement:

    http://www.magazine.unibo.it/Magazine/Notizie/2012/08/27/E-cat_non_ci_sono_misure_in_atto.htm

    “E-cat: there are not measures underway

    August 27, 2012

    Statement by the Vice Rector for Research Dario Braga and the Director of the Department of Physics Paolo Capiluppi

    Following the statements appeared in some media about an upcoming release from the University of Bologna of measurements results made on Mr. Andrea Rossi’s device called “E-cat”, the Vice-Rector for research, Professor Dario Braga, and the Director of the Department of Physics, Professor Paolo Capiluppi, reiterate to the press what was stated as early as January 2012, and that is that there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna and the EFA srl and that there are not measures underway nor scheduled on Mr. Andrea Rossi’s device called “E-cat” at the University of Bologna.

    The University of Bologna restates, however, its full readiness to make available its expertise and equipment to make measurements on the production of heat from the device, at the condition that the results are public and disclosed.”

    What can we do of all this? Daniele Passerini on his blog has commented with a smile “one must be able to grasp undertones…”

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      “not …….. at the University of Bologna”

      Maybe elsewhere?

      • Renzo

        I thought the same, sure enough the tests were done at Rossi’s facility.

        I find it harder to explain “there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna and the EFA srl”

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          If professors from the University of Bologna are directly involved with Rossi (for example as private consultants, or as members of an independent testing group including professors from different universities), there would not be any formal relationship between the university and EFA srl; I don’t think there are laws or regulations preventing this, as long as they don’t claim to be working on behalf of their university.

          • dragonX

            If Rossi has something amazing to offer, why would Unibo management will distance from him?

            If Unibo management distance from Rossi, why tenure professors will risk career (pensions, benefits, respect, MONEY) to defy Unibo management over Rossi?

            Something is not right here… and sometimes in December after all delays and denials are complete, some of us will have to recognize that we were served BS for the past 2 years.

            What is more likely to happen? Energy revolution or a small BS guy being called for what it is?

            And I am not a LENR skeptic and not even a Rossi patho-skeptic, but downgraded slowly from Rossi hopeful to skeptic. Sorry, but enough is enough.

          • JerryB

            Would really like to see MIT on this list, the Media would be all over this hotcat demo.

          • Fyodor

            It sounds like he is saying that he’ll describe the September report at the conference and that reporters will write about what he says. This is worlds apart from formal publication in a peer-reviewed scientific publication. He’s also not committing to releasing the actual report – just that he’ll talk about it.

            He also has previously said the UBol would be publishing a validation which seems to contradict Ubol’s explicit disavowal of him.

          • Chris

            You don’t seem to have read this properly.

            He says that publication will be up to those who carry out the testing.

            The intent of Unibo running tests is a thing of the past. I’m glad it won’t be them because people would be more suspicious of them, even without the kind of jokes made by JREF about Bologna, more seriously because Focardi and Levi are formally staff there. Rossi has already said Focardi won’t be in on it because it wouldn’t be independent and third party, Levi is Focardi’s academic “son” and became very involved in following Rossi’s aork too. Nah, not Unibo, thank goodness.

          • Fyodor

            And I’m saying that he has previously identified UniBo as the party that would be validating. Maybe it’s changed or maybe he’s just covering himself after misrepresenting his relationship with UniBo.

          • Ged

            That was a long time ago. And as I remember, he didn’t say it was definitely decided yet. Seems he has gone with someone else, thankfully.

          • Fyodor

            This is what Rossi said on August 11th two weeks ago. When Unibo repudiated him he changed his story again.

            INFORMATION:
            AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT:
            THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA, AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.

          • Methusela

            The latest Passerini post is interesting: http://22passi.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/la-preziosa-opera-di-protezione-del.html

            In this he implies that someone or thing is being used as a lightning rod to distract the ‘sceptics’ who are attacking him.

          • Renzo

            The post is rather obscure but yours is an interesting interpretation

          • Maybe Rossi himself is the distraction – while someone else gets on with the real job? That would certainly put many things in an entirely new light… Possibly we are way deeper in the ‘compost’ than we ever imagined.

          • GreenWin

            Peter, you would make an excellent MI5 analyst. What you propose is an Enigma, wrapped in a paradox, inside a conundrum. Well done.

          • Possibly not quite that complex, GW, but it would imply a ‘Project’ of great breadth and complexity. And the existence of more ‘good guys’ with a lot of power, working together at a very high level, than have so far been evident.

            At this point I only put the idea forward as a possibility for consideration – but it would explain many things.

          • tappanjack

            PR: I think we need to remember that Mr Rossi is reporting results to Siemens, which would be the exact match of what you have described.

          • If there is anything at all in such a scenario there would be players at many levels and degrees of awareness of the game. The CEOs and top executives of various enlightened corporations (if that’s not an oxymoron) would be at or near the apex I think.

          • Tappanjack, I’ve replied to your post but my comment has gone into moderation for some reason.

          • GreenWin

            Frankly, at the risk of out-of-school commentary, your scenario makes human sense. I do have it on good authority that such a project is forbidden without a catalyst. It appears with Rossi, one has been found.

          • Perhaps the fact that we really will run out of oil in the not very distant future might be a suitable catalyst? After all, the comfortable lives of the rich are actually more vulnerable to the loss of this particular energy source than the lives of the very poor.

            Also the prospect of a new corporate profit source running to gigabuck levels might help sway minds!

          • I’m pretty sure that none of the above will extend to small scale systems such as home heating/power or vehicle propulsion though. That might be the ‘problem’ with Mill’s technology and others – they are not offering inexpensive replacements for existing steam generation systems.

          • GreenWin

            Indeed there is likely harsh opposition to distributed energy. However, the “gigabucks” come from the proposition of manufacturing 3-4 billion residential and light industry units. Sale, installation and maintenance contracts represent a significant new revenue stream for “energy” companies with vision.

            E-cat “fuel rods” could be direct replacements for fission rods – preserving old grid service to some industry and residences (if competitive.)

            The “greening” of the planet by removing millions of miles of old transmission cable, outdated dams, ending mountain top removal, replacing wood burning fires, unwinding deep water drilling and… !! abundant energy limits reasons for resource/religious conflict.

            BTW, our feathered friends, birds will appreciate not having to fly across landscapes littered with giant food processors! Hello, Audubon??

            We are on the good path.

          • Barry

            I think one of the problems between (the open minded ones at) MIT and A Rossi is, Rossi does not share his technological findings. Where Peter Hagelstein shares his findings just like Prof. Celani and those working together as a whole. I must admit I admire Rossi’s efforts at pushing CF through into the marketplace. I hope he comes through, but the CF collective group gives me faith in LENR as a growing, future technology.

          • GreenWin

            Naw jerry. Media is a little poodle defecating and peaing on the public. Poodles love their dog food and know if they wanna eat, they gotta pooh. Unfortunately that gets on us. Likewise MIT is a hot fusion house and they too wanna eat – at the public trough.

          • Stanny Demesmaker

            DragonX,

            You always seem to forget that Rossi doesn’t have any debt to us. He doesn’t need to convince us, he needs to convince his partners/clients. And that’s working pretty well for him. I am still searching for the first businesspeople that worked with him calling him a liar and cheater. I don’t hear that. The only people who say that are the ones here, who will never be convinced …

            Keep looking at the big picture, don’t lose your focus on the little things.

          • Renzo

            Unibo has excellent reason to cover its involvement with Rossi until the tests are done because they have been under very strong pressure by patho-skeptics both into the university and from outside. They want to divert the pressure and work in peace.

          • Jim Johnson

            “Enough is enough”…for what? Are you going to stop posting? Some of your questions and insights are valuable. But unwarranted negative assumptions and excessive expressions of personal frustration damage your credibility.

            “Sorry”…about what, that the universe wasn’t able to convince you? How did you place yourself at the center of that particular universe?

          • Ged

            Unibo management isn’t trying to distance, they are just speaking the truth. Notice how at the end they continue to state their door is fully open to Rossi if he wishes. That’s not distancing in any respect.

          • Visitor

            I wouldn’t say there will be no energy revolution.
            There would be for sure but not sure from Rossi’s E-Cat.
            We have 2 promising silenced company with proven tech moving towards commercial product without too much noise. (Energtics Tech and BlackLight P).

            The method of all the others is – Make lot of noise then “They” will notice you and buy you out as they done with others.

            Unfortunately for Rossi and others like Inteligentry , “They” haven’t came up with proposals yet.
            (“They” = The oil big pockets sharks).

            Until there is no answer to my question -“Why aren’t you starting to save lives right now?” Rossi, in my POV, is in a “Wait” status.

          • GreenWin

            Visitor, can your grasp the idea – e-cat technology is still in development. That means it cannot be used yet to “save lives.”

            And again, so it sinks in, we have given hot fusion scientists billions$$ for 60 years because they promised “unlimited, clean energy.” Where is it?? Where’s our money?? Did the human race get ripped off??

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        If I were Rossi, I would also choose another Uni simply because he has way too many ties with Bologna. They could never conduct an “independent” validation.

    • daniel maris

      I think we must take that as a no then from Bologna .

    • dragonX

      Common, somebody needs to spin this piece of UniBo denial and give us (Rossi fans) the 180 degrees interpretation of this 🙂 … laughable.

      “Now I’m sure Unibo will do the tests because they said NO”…. how crazy and wishful thinking we can be????

      • ‘Us’ Rossi fans? I’m not sure that some of your recent comments (or this one) would have naturally placed you in that category, dragonx. Sometimes it seems that you might be sailing under something of a flag of convenience?

        The fact is however that there do seem to be loopholes in the UniBo statement that might allow for, say, a 3rd party to commission tests on an e-cat (perhaps one belonging to them?). On balance though I think it would probably be safer to assume that it means pretty much what it says, at least as far as the establishment of the uni is concerned.

        • GreenWin

          Hey Peter, you smell that? It’s a kind of dugfromnewjersey smell.

          • Now you happen to mention it… Unfortunately not the only old wine (whine?) posting here in a new bottle.

  • Barry

    2 questions, what does NAD stand for?
    The second is a little off topic. Prof. Celani is measuring 10w from his device. How much COP is that? Thanks, Barry

    • admin

      Hi Barry — NDA is a non-disclosure agreement; COP is the ratio of energy in to energy out, so you’d need to find the input energy and total output from Celani’s device to get the answer.

    • Martin

      NDA=
      Non Disclosure Agreement

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      If input = 42w, output=52-62w (10-20w of excess heat on average)
      then COP = ~1.24-1.48

      However Celani will soon have a self-sustaining cell. COP would increase noticeably (not infinite, because some input energy will still be necessary to start the reaction and/or maintain it).

      • Jim Johnson

        Is there a term to refer to the “net” energy gain (output minus input?)

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          In this field it’s usually informally called “excess heat” or more specifically “excess rate”, “excess power”, etc.

          • Barry

            Thanks all (NDA not NAD). I’m just trying to get an idea of how powerful Prof. Celani’s device is. The idea that he can turn it off and on with a flip of a switch and travel it around is quite impressive. If it has significant COP it would be phenomenal. Also think he’s quite deserving for his openness.

  • Sanjeev

    LENR – It’s Alive!
    http://cleantechauthority.com/lenr-its-alive/

    I do not know how mainstream this site is, but google marked it as news.

    • Good report, apart from the error regarding Defkalion and palladium. Quite a well organised site, but no real indication about how big they are. The fact that they have a physical address in Austin, TX means that it is probably not just the usual wordpress blog run by one person.

    • Barry

      Good one, thanks Sanjeev.

  • Bruno

    The “technical journals” that Rossi refers to will only report on the September Zurich meeting if Rossi’s results are validated by an independent 3rd party. In other words, if someone from, say Siemens or National Instruments, stands at the lectern with him and says, “yes, we were there, the test was NOT run by Rossi and he’s telling the truth”, then it will be published. If the September Zurich meeting turns out to be another unsubstantiated “Rossi said” advertisement, then the scientific journals won’t publish. Why should they? Why should AP have reported the October 2011 test? After all, that test was conducted under great secrecy, not at all in the fashion promised by Rossi just two weeks prior.

    • Lu

      It sounds to me we will only get media reports of Rossi’s presentation in September. Look for such reports to appear in PESN and other “technical journals.” But as you say, this is merely more “Rossi Says” although credibility will be gained if as part of his presentation the names of the university professors and/or corporation involvement are mentioned and these are reputable entities. To me this is much more important than the actual results.

      Following this in October, some university is planning to do an independent repeat of the July/August tests. It would be interesting to know who is paying for this and also what the nature of the NDA is. It is probably in everyone’s best interest that the identity of this university to not be disclosed at this time. Afterwards this university will publish the results. Hopefully this won’t take too long but it seems to me it could take quite a while especially if there is some peer review involved or the results are controversial. These results may not be all that important other than for confirmation if the media reports in September contain the information I am hoping for as mentioned.

      I hope these later results are sufficient to claim Dick Smith’s $1M offer, which expires February 2013.

      All of this is just my opinion about what I am reading from Rossi.

      • daniel maris

        At a minimum we need named credible individuals involved in testing who have no other connection with Rossi – if he can’t meet that minimum, he will be bust come the end of October.

        Remember, he did say he was preparing factories to produce the domestic E Cat heater. Where have they gone? He needs to give us something credible to cling to. There are in reality very few Rossi loyalists – most people are simply enthusiastic about LENR and want to see it succeed, especially since the endorsements of NASA, DARPA and other important agencies.

    • GreenWin

      Great secrecy?? Euro journalists covered the event in detail. Some 30 people attended – some, industry scientists. The only “secret” was the name of the Final Test client probably military that demands “secrecy.”

      Besides, we have now hard proof that “validations” of disruptive energy technology are meaningless. We have Mills’ CIHT six validations from impeccable scientists at the world’s most prestigious institutions – and ZERO mainstream media. This proves beyond doubt the ineptitude of the press – or ineptitude of the press’ overseers.

      • Not ineptitude if keeping the herd in the dark is the object. Just the opposite in fact.

      • Marc Stone

        Ever heard the term once bitten, twice shy?

        Well, the media was bitten in 89

        • Barry

          I think there is truth in that.

          • Tony76

            There is a massive difference between a guy holding up a test tube claiming a possible breakthrough (89) and a 1MW reactor industrial demonstration (2011).

            “once bitten, twice shy” can only apply if you believe that main stream news is completely dumb about science. In which case they should retire from reporting altogether.

          • GreenWin

            No Tony76, you’re being too hard on the prissy press. They should continue to report stories like Anthony Wiener and the Casey Anthony story. The Enquirer and the AP are little different anymore.

        • jacob

          ABC news was forced to sell out in the 1980’s,so it could keep it’s broadcasting licenses, and all news media has to abide by strict guidelines,that is why LENR does not get coverage ,and only will if the owners agree to it.

          Much advertizing revenue is at stake ,as well as the broadcasting licenses,the owners of the media know what possible fallout going against the wishes of big oil = big pharm could have on their bottomline.

          • Yes, that’s the lever – but who exactly is on the other end of it?

          • jacob

            those who want to keep things as they are.

  • Assuming DGT, Rossi and Celani all have devices with some degree of anomalous heat generation, my theory explains this as being similar to the implosion of matter/explosion of radiation and heat seen in Bose Einstein Condensates only it is now occurring within a void within a lattice at higher temperatures and pressures due to external forces acting on it.

    http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/bosenova.cfm

    My blog below summarizes this effect and makes more predictions.

    ChemE
    http://wp.me/p26aeb-4

  • Alexvs

    Oh. Another verse to add to Rossi’s sayings. As usual it produces contradictory intrepretations and a lot of useless chuckle.

    • dragonX

      + 1.

      • Barry

        minus 1

    • andrea

      I totally agree.. delay after delay.. what is the game here ? So in October (maybe) the testing with an unknown University, if one will agree.., then the pubblication ..
      I don’t think that in September will be any document from any indipendent institution but just from Rossi..
      and what happen to the first e-cat ?

  • Filip47

    We’re gonna have to be patient.
    There are as many pro’s as contra’s.
    Rossi sure as hell knows how to entertain. I can’t say I’m bored! 🙂