Rossi on Certification, Desalination, Charity

It’s kind not normal for Andrea Rossi to cover a lot of different topics in a single post, but today there was an exception. A couple of different posters asked Rossi some questions about desalination, and the possibility of using a charity, or starting a non profit to organize a E-Cat desalination plant in a third world country. One suggestion was that it could be possible to install an E-Cat plant in a country where certification would not be required. Here is Rossi’s response to the idea:

First of all, the certification process must be completed in Europe or in the USA at least before we make an installation, and this is valid also for Africa: it is deonthologically unacceptable to install a not certified apparatus in a Country just because in that Country the safety issues are not addressed.
We have no experience in desalination yet, and this operation can be made only after we will know exactly the problem. After that, there are many problems to think about, first of all the problem of the defence of the technology, that in those situations can be very critic: who makes secure the place? That is an action that will be possible only after our plants will be already diffused, the Intallectual Property well defined and our experience in desalination consolidated. We got the idea and we will take in account it: when we will set up our system of charity we will think about this and will look not for charity organizations, but directly to the utilizers, as well as we will give the money for children cancer care directly to the families, to avoid to pay wages of “non profit” organizations managers, secretaries etc instead of paying healthcare.

Some things to learn from this response.

  • Rossi is opposed to skirting safety certification requirements, even if they are not legally necessary.
  • Leonardo has not looked at using the E-Cat for desalination yet but plans to do so.
  • Leonardo is very concerned about the safety and security of its intellectual property. Putting E-Cats in remote places is seen by Rossi as being risky in terms of the possibility of the secrets of the E-Cat being stolen. It seems a controlled diffusion of the technology is a priority for Rossi at the moment, and his preference seems to be to put them in environments where he feels most confidence in legal and technical systems being in place to protect IP.
  • There a plans for Leonardo to have some kind of ‘system of charity’ in which they will provide funds directly to recipients. Rossi seems not to have a high regard for non profit organizations.
  • vbasic

    I agree with Rossi on that. There’s plenty of time for ambitious desalinization projects after he makes and sells millions of ecats. Why risk losing everything before he’s really on solid ground with the ecat business? I also agree with the ethical reasons. You don’t set different safety standards for different countries, just because one country may allow any uncertified process.

  • Ivan_cev

    What Rossi needs to do is a demo in which He heats a Olympic size swimming pool with 10 ecats; and show it did it with 1/6 of the energy required.
    puts many energy counters calibrated by different independent testers.
    Thats all, after that there is not skeptics any more, just people who want to replicate and investigate the phenomena.
    Then to be a billionaire, he just have to sell licenses to the catalyzer, He do not even have to build ecats.
    Why is he taking the more difficult path?

  • GreenWin

    The cautious Rossi seems correct here. It is too soon for him to venture into tangential business before the underlying IP is fully understood and working.

    What he might do to make a good demo is work with a large NGO, and sell them a 1-5MW unit. The NGO would then use the ecat to build a functional pilot plant – desalination makes sense. It would then be the responsibility of the NGO to apply the ecat heat to known desalination technology.

    Say for instance Ing Rossi sells a 1MW hot cat to an NGO foundation – who then engage a partner like Aquatech to use the 700kW heat for evap/condense desal and the balance of heat for electrical production (via steam turbine or Stirling cycle.) This would make a convincing demonstration of LENR heat,

    http://www.aquatech.com/Technology/Desalination.aspx

    Being Associated with a foundation like Direct Relief, Gates, or United Way, would add credibility and emphasize the inventor’s intent to use LENR for benevolent purposes.

    • georgehants

      Not wishing to defend politicians to much.
      It would seem that if we do not see the exact report given to politicians from their scientific advisers then we cannot judge the decisions politicians make.
      We need to see the advice that the named “experts” are giving regarding Cold Fusion etc.
      Only then can we know if the politicians except or disregard the advice.
      We can also see the competence and honesty of these “expert” advisers.

      • Yea right.
        The guy invents it, risks every thing, has to sell his own house along with all the other sacrifices.
        And now every one wants the guy to give it away for free?

        • Renzo

          +1

      • georgehants

        In my humble opinion, worth being off subject, for any reader who can wonder or admire.
        Please remove if considered inappropriate.
        http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2012/hackpenhill3/hackpenhill2012c.html

        • Martin

          not OT, cropcircles and the E-Cat kind of play in the same league.

          • Zac

            Clearly Rossi is already dreaming of the day when his vast wealth will make him the world’s wisest and most generous philanthropist.
            And can anyone seriously doubt that once he has bestowed upon his subjects the gift of limitless cheap energy, oceans of desalinated water, thousand story vertical farms, and a ring of defensive lasers to protect the Earth from alien attack, that at some point he will personally find the time to accompany every terminally ill child on a magical trip to Disneyworld.

          • GreenWin

            “The thermometer of success is merely the jealousy of the malcontents.” Salvador Dali

          • Chris

            Goodness, your propaganda is oversimplified (as well as out of place). Several of my student friends were from that area, they came here to study. They have reasonably good education at least up to high school.

          • clovis

            Hi, guys.
            i feel it is very honorable,for Mr. Rossie too share his good fortune.
            and it tells me he has a good heart. very important for the success of his product..

          • Ivan_cev

            We arguing about desalination, charity, Disruptions, etc, etc,
            Seems we forget Rossi has not put its device in the free market, except for secret clients no one is able to buy an ecat, but you probably could buy a license to sale ecats.
            A product exists when you could go to a shop or factory and ask for a drive test. then you know you could buy the thing.

            People are Making a Mistake with involving nuclear reactions in this field.
            This field should be called “Anomalous heat effect” then you do not have to go to difficult certifications. let the science skeptics to tell you this is a nuclear effect, meanwhile just say is of unknown nature, there is no radiation or negative effects, so why you have to use the world Nuclear, Maybe you could even patent your device this way, just say I do not know why it works, but show it works with a real device. After all there is hundreds of areas of science where the underlaying is unknown, specially in areas related to the brain where nobody knows how it works, but you are reading this so you know your brain works!

          • Andrew Macleod

            Nah call it cold fusion, it’s like a slapping mainstream science in the face every time they hear it, and I hope it stings worse when they’re submitting their papers for peer review. Its the least they should have to go through for their stupidity of the last 23 years of denial.

          • Mattias

            😀 Well said, Andrew! 😀 I agree!

          • Goldader

            E Cat ein Massenprodukt, nicht für 2500 $
            Goldader

          • georgehants

            About the most unpleasant comment seen on these pages.

          • Andrew Macleod

            And let me guess, you will be sitting bitterly wearing your tinfoil hat burning your fossil fuels to keep warm, cursing anyone who has ever tried to better the world. My advice to you is get some strong anti-depressants and stop downing on people with good intentions.

          • Roger Bird

            Storey, not story

          • Rossi is probably sleeping in the back of the shed and living on two minute noodles and instant coffee.

            Yes, if he does get some sleep after 23 hour working days, it would be nightmares of big oil storming his operation, or the government locking him up and labeling him a mad man , as they did Tesla.

            I think he would be happy in a 3 bedroom country house, a veggie garden and a bit of peace and quiet. (and no electric bill ha)

          • Omega Z

            Zac

            If you understood how life really works, you would realize that Rossi will only get a small piece of the profits. Rich for sure, but nothing like you would imagine.

            Also, E-cats wont be the only product out there. McKubre stated that he was watching 6 different projects of this Nature, 3 of which aren’t even on the public Radar. Apparently there’s several dozen projects aimed for market minimum. What we’re aware of is the tip of the Iceberg. Governments will make sure somewhere around a dozen products will come to market. A monopoly will not be allowed. Even if they have to help make it happen.

          • Interesting.
            do you have references about McKubre quote ?
            knowing there are 6 project on the way, with 3 secret, is interesting…
            But I already know more than 3 public :
            – rossi/e-cat
            – defkalion/hyperion
            – Drillouin
            – BLP
            – Celani/kresenn
            – Nichenergy under the radar
            – another under the radar

            I suspect, japanese (Mitsubishi), Chinese (Sure they work, Biberian talk of 21labs on it),

            Indian and Russian seems out and I’ve read article of CF scientist moaning on lack of research, and lost opportunity.
            Mainstream europe and US seems out too… NASA support is local, and spawar closed LENR study.

            beside that we should be careful about South-Africa, they learn fast.
            South america seems lost in oil, biofuel, or US vision.

          • Omega Z

            It was an interview by Sterling since the ICCF-17 on NEST

            http://pesn.com/2012/08/29/9602171_Michael-McKubre_on_Cold-Fusions_Rise_Despite_Political_Academic_Suppression/

            A text is provided, but the Audio gives more detail. An hour & 12minutes long.

          • I quoted your messages
            hope you are not shy
            http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=514&p=2137#p2134

          • From: Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist

            by H. Michael Sweeney

            3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved.

            http://www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html

        • Beautifully done by some very diligent people. I’d be surprised if the farmer had not given permission.

          • georgehants

            Zedshort, you would agree that the simple way to scientifically settle the debate would be for the army or university students to move into the field next door and copy the design overnight.
            No mistakes or practice are allowed as no abandoned major circles have been found.

        • andre blum

          Certainly no mean feat for humans, especially when they need to do this at night and must use tools like GPS and pieces of rope to get the circles right. And if this is done by aliens, as some people think, it is even more admirable, considering how stupid we know they all are.

          • theBuckWheat

            While I wish Rossi every success, until the physics of the reaction that Rossi is exploiting is fully understood, the danger is that one of these devices will start working too well, and will either melt down or blow up. Thus, extra safety considerations are very much justified until we can document several million device-hours of operation.

          • Kim

            Safety is very important, I agree.

            When the main reacting material reaches

            2,647° F (1,453° C) the reaction stops!

            Its self limiting. That takes care of the

            explosion factor. Just as if you shut off the

            supply of a gas furnace.

            Respect
            Kim

          • GreenWin

            Hello Mr. Wheat. Could you detail the “blow up” part?? LENR is a very slow reaction. What at the atomic level would make it critical?

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            “blow up” denotes DRAMA.

          • Roger Bird

            “blow up” also implies the possibility of government interference.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Not everyone in Africa is uneducated and poor, uneducated does not mean stupid. With access to basic needs the conditions will improve. Abundent fresh water will lead to more bountiful crops, less water borne illness and an overall increase in health. Once basic needs are met African society then can look at higher needs(maslows law). My main concern with a desalination in Africa would be security. The plant would be a main target for rebel groups looking to overthrow the government, civil unrest or unfriendly neibourghing countrys, control the water, control the food, control the country. The plant would have to have some pretty high walls with military protection atleast until fresh water is no longer a prized commodity.

          • Roger Bird

            Everything that you say is exactly right. But you are not noticing the timeline. By the time that African society looks at higher needs, the desalination station would have broken down about 100 times, unless it was manned by an educated person.

          • Andrew Macleod

            I fully understand their plight. I have done some charity work in Haiti (before the earthquake), the main problem is foresight, most poor people live day to day. They will do almost anything to ease the pain of today with no thought of tommorow or next week. But to improve the condition you have to start somewhere, abundant fresh water is the key handing out food is a dead end. Have them grow their own food! We just have to hold their hands for a while, it’s better than spoon feeding them forever. Solve the problem, don’t treat the symptoms!

          • georgehants

            Fully agree Andrew, the U.N. needs to be fully responsible for supplying basic education and needs to the whole World. removing any governments or dictators that get in the way.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

          • My family and I have been thinking about how we might become involved in the promotion, distribution and support of small systems for the most needy on our planet. We were taken aback by Rossi’s statement that he “will look not for charity organizations, but directly to the utilizers”. While that may be a reasonable position when it comes to MW and larger systems (and maybe that’s what he had in mind when making the statement), we would think it totally unmanageable and hence undoable for the many millions of smaller, charity and subsidized systems that should be distributed, installed and maintained all over the world. To quickly and efficiently accomplish the later, we think Rossi would need to rely on existing and new charitable organizations to help.

          • Roger Bird

            Just my opinion, but if I were to win a really large lottery, I would NOT be looking to have some charity organization help. My feeling about charity organizations is not very charitable.

          • Ivan_cev

            You completely wrong, with no organizations there is no help, how will you manage people in need, locations, etc, etc, you liked or not charitable organizations are necessary, if you like you could call them an necessary load. otherwise you will have to create a huge managed by yourself charity. You are completely not objective, charity organizations needs to exist because someone has to deliver the help.
            And you have to pay this people, unless all of them are sons and daughters of Bill Gates and Rossi.
            I think what Rossi means in practical terms, is: “I am not interested in Charity is my money and I will not share it”

          • Roger Bird

            Sounds like Ivan_cev works for a large charity organization. Hey, Ivan, they overhead costs for most charity organizations are embarrassing. So I guess that makes me completely wrong.

          • The larger the charity, in general the worse the situation becomes. My daughter once spent 2 weeks during her gap year as a volunteer at an RSPCA animal shelter in a large town. It was meant to be 3 months but she had to leave when she realised just how many pet animals this organisation – which spends half its income on salaries and is sitting on a huge pile of cash – was killing needlessly, apparently to save on ‘expenses’ (i.e., its reason for existing).

            http://www.rspca-animadversion.org.uk/enforcer.htm

          • Roger Bird

            Peter Roe, I guess according to Ivan_cev, you are also completely wrong. I guess this means that you are lying about your daughter and/or she is also lying.

            I have heard this about the SPCA from other sources. Everyone’s first motivation economically, whether they are private, charitable, or government, is to keep their jobs. Doing a good job is almost always secondary or worse. The neat thing about private businesses is that accountability is often swift and certain. With charities and government, not so much.

          • Roger, perhaps you could clarify the meaning of your second sentence a little?

          • Roger Bird

            Peter Roe, it was sarcasm. If we follow the logic of Ivan_cev, then your daughter must have been making stuff up. Obviously, that makes no sense, so the logic of Ivan_cev must be mistaken. (:->) Can I get away with a smiley face just about now?

          • Forget about the science Buck wheat just ‘burn the witch’ and go back to your daily life of burning fossil fuels and destroying the planet in bequest of future generations.

          • Omega Z

            theBuckWheat

            To do as you say means we should go back to living in Caves.

            Because everything mans thinks he knows is suspect to revision or total nullification. Why? Because the more we learn, The more we realize we really know very little.

            Science is always finding contradictions, Some so contradictory they imply that every theory needs revised or replaced. A 1000 years from now, IF we survive till then, Humans may look back & speak of how primitive we were.

          • GreenWin

            Aw, come on Andre, not ALL aliens are stupid. Just the self-indulgent ones :).

        • Italo R.

          I know exactly what it is:
          It is the Hot Honeycomb as aliens have seen will be realized
          …just for kidding…

        • Barry

          Photoshopped? (or would it be Photocropped?)

      • atanguy

        That is a good idea,it is called transparency and democracy.

        • jpelsor

          This is all wonderful but how about actually producing a few working units for the open market. Let the buyers place the units into operation for a few months so the capacity is unquestionable.

          • Jim Johnson

            ***** must…resist….mean….posts….

          • Such restraint, Jim – more than I can usually manage!

          • georgehants

            Peter, is this the week, will it be enough to raise the balloon.
            As usual it will be very interesting anyway I hope.

          • George – interesting undoubtedly, but a turning point? I doubt it I’m afraid. Despite his optimistic outbursts about technical developments, I think Rossi (actually Leornardo Corp – development is probably largely out of Rossi’s hands, now) will be swimming upstream until he plays ball with TPTB (if he’s not already).

            Any announcements of significance Rossi makes will continue to be ignored by the corporate MSM until the time comes to spin the facts and begin pumping propaganda designed to introduce CF to the herd and make it seem natural that only the nuclear industry is able to handle it ‘safely’.

            It’s being so cheerful… etc.

          • georgehants

            Peter, could not agree more, but I am one of those strange people that actually believe that positive thinking actually changes events, a la Quantum etc.

          • Deleted by author – too far off topic!

          • georgehants

            Can’t be further off topic than my circle yesterday that Frank graciously allowed.
            Man made or a mystery it is time that the World started looking at the wonders of life and appreciating them.

          • I don’t like to overdo it!

          • georgehants

            Peter meant to ask you do you agree with my comment of yesterday —-
            “Not wishing to defend politicians to much.
            It would seem that if we do not see the exact report given to politicians from their scientific advisers then we cannot judge the decisions politicians make.
            We need to see the advice that the named “experts” are giving regarding Cold Fusion etc.
            Only then can we know if the politicians except or disregard the advice.
            We can also see the competence and honesty of these “expert” advisers.”

          • Yes, I absolutely agree that ‘expert’ advice given to politicians should be in the public domain and a matter of record. I would dearly love to know what is being said about CF, especially by the nuclear lobbyists.

            Of course it will never happen – not only would the activities of lobbyists posing as impartial advisors be open to all to see, but as you inply, so would the machinations of politicians (not to mention their technical ignorance). Competence and honesty are not words I would naturally associate with any part of government I’m afraid.

          • georgehants

            Hey, negative vibs, everything in the future is going to be Wonderful.
            You me and the guys on this page will make sure of that. 🙂

          • Sorry George! I’ve always gone with my intuition though, and that’s where its taking me on this topic – “plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”. But it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been wrong of course.

  • GreenWin

    “Maybe there is something there, some funny reaction going on. If there is, I’ll make another prediction. If there is, it may solve some puzzles, but it won’t be important. Or it may be bad science.” Bob Park, American Physical Society Director Public Information, November 2004

    With scientists like this, it’s a wonder we no longer live in caves.

    • Andrew Macleod

      It reminds me of a time in history when we thought the world I flat, if you thought otherwise you were crazy.

      http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

    • georgehants

      “In 1989, Steven E. Koonin attacked the characters of “cold fusion” discoverers Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons at the American Physical Society meeting in Baltimore, Maryland.
      ‘‘We are suffering from incompetence and perhaps delusion from Fleischmann and Pons,’’ Koonin said.
      At the time, Koonin was a professor at California Institute of Technology; he is now the undersecretary for science at the U.S. Department of Energy.”

      • GreenWin

        Fortunately for the nation Mr. Koonin has been removed from DOE. He is now a teacher at NYU – an unfortunate occurrence for students there.

      • GreenWin

        Let me add that someone as misanthropic as Koonin, must be held directly accountable for their actions. Koonin owes Fleischmann’s family and Professor Pons an apology. Without such, Koonin is an example of the kind of myopic scientist NOT to be.

  • Max S

    Earlier the message was certification is complete, at least for the EU.
    His swiss licencee Schneider shoots messages claiming EU certifaction has been passed.
    Now Rossi is quoted “First of all, the certification process must be completed in Europe or in the USA”. Now this socunds there is no certification yet. We remember Gary Wright claims certifation was never applied for, due to lack of standards. It would be good to cast some light on this important issue, finally.

    • Omega Z

      Max S

      The Low Temp 1Mw units have been certified, But then each unit goes thru it’s own certification as built. The 1st is the hardest. Each additional unit happens quicker as a process/standard has been developed. It just becomes a formality. A Quality Control Issue.

      The Hot Cat is in process.

      The Home version is in holding until a track safety data/record has been obtained from the Low Temp 1Mw units.

      If certification was never applied for due to a lack of standards was a problem as Gary Wright claims, then No New product would ever come to market. It all starts someplace. As for Gary Wright, If he was the sharp end of a knife, I would use the Blunt end.

      As for the Home unit in holding. It’s old news…months

      • Max S

        “The Low Temp 1Mw units have been certified” – How do you know this ? Who ever saw these documents ? “Rossi said” is a weak argument. If the low temp e-cat had been certified as claimed why does Rossi not publish the documents ? It would an easy exercise, not disclose any know-how and gain credibility.
        Until then “pathological skeptics” will claim there is no certification and customers are confused.
        You stated “If certification was never applied for due to a lack of standards was a problem as Gary Wright claims, then No New product would ever come to market.” This is not true, for new products standards are being developed, considering safety and legal aspects.

        • Omega Z

          That was my point. If there are no standards, the UL & CE will develop standards if you submit a totally new product.

          Unless I misread what you posted, I thought it was implied by Gary that Rossi couldn’t apply for certification because there are no set standards.

          On the low temp certification, You right. It is Rossi says. Maybe will know something this month & no later the October. 2 months. We can wait.

          For certification, I suspect Rossi is using either QM Systems or Energia. We’ll see.

  • Michel

    If certification of the domestic E-cat is pending to statistics of the industrial plants, i fear we will have to wait a long long time before we can buy one.
    Did Rossi already sold at least one industrial plant? Who knows ?
    I hope all this is not just a hoax or misinterpretation of physical measurements.

    AR: “For the domestic ones,certification will be possible, I think, after the industrialplants will have produced enough statistics”

    ————————————–
    Journal of nuclear physics
    Andrea Rossi
    August 31st, 2012 at 9:34 AM
    Dear Koen Vandewalle:
    We have all the resources necessary for a development of our technology, based on our businessplant. I do not think we will have delays as for the industrial apparatuses. For the domestic ones, certification will be possible, I think, after the industrialplants will have produced enough statistics.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    —————————————————–

    • Omega Z

      Michel

      I’ve reread things from way back & it was considered a good possibility that this would be the case. I do that on occasion when things seem a little slow. We all miss details along the way.

      This isn’t really new info unless you missed it the 1st time or are relatively new to the LENR scene.

      I think Rossi might have been overly optimistic about getting past this possibility or understated it.

      I don’t think it will hold things up as long as some may think.
      1Mw E-cat with 100 cores 24/7 racks up run-time pretty fast. Over 870,000 hours a year. Multiply by each additional 1Mw unit & the numbers ???

      I seem to recall mention of 1 Million hours somewhere so a few 1Mw units could fill the bill depending on how/if the numbers are weighted. We could still see Home E-cats by mid 2013.

  • LCD

    Posted this on JONP

    LCD Your comment is awaiting moderation. September 2nd, 2012 at 8:57 AM

    Ing. Rossi I’ve been trying to analyze your business strategy. In my humble opinion while i believe that industrial plants at first with some measure of IP protection is wise, i think that ultimately your best strategy for long term succeess is to license your IP to companies for a percentage ownership. This strategy ferrets out would be competitors and puts them to work for you.

    The reason why i think this is the best course of action is because the nature of the technology is such that it probably cant be protected long term by patents and it is too inexpensive to fight against every possible infringer.

    Good luck and thanks for bringing the tech to us.

    • Claes

      I think you’re both wrong and right. Right about the practical aspect. About the cause it has many components. One among many would be European trawlers vacuum cleaning their coastal waters, destroying their livelihoods .. natural resource + povery + corruption = tragedy. Which brings me to one good LENR effect: no tension over nickel worldwide. The West is so dependent on natural resources from the outside that they simply can’t afford to play fair. They need to ally with tyrants, threaten, attack… They’re hostages under their own addictions. Morality gets squeezed out here I think, there is no room for it. I don’t think the West is evil or anything silly like that, I just think it’s painted itself into a corner. Self-sufficiency in energy could be a good thing. But as others have pointed out there will be side effects that we have no idea about. It might provide breathing room, but give humanity’s track record of solving problems, I find it hard to be optimistic about the long run. I hope to be wrong…

    • Petrol

      Fusion powered solar stills can be made cheaply by anyone without access to much infustructure or technology.

  • Tangled Connections

    TWAT

  • Roger Bird

    Everyone is infinitely precious. Not everyone is equally intellectual or intellectual enough to run a desalination plant. Not every culture produces people as intellectual as other cultures. This is just a fact. It could change. It probably will. But it will require at least 20 years. In the meantime, who mans the desalination plant?

    And this brings up another, bigger problem. LENR will be fan-freaking-tastic. But it will not solve all of our problems. And it will probably create other problems. There will certainly be other stresses on other resources. There will certainly be more people who become Kardashian-like: jaded and shallow, because the average income of the world’s population will go up. LENR will not reduce the risk of a super-massive coronal mass ejection wiping civilization out. It happened in 1859, but we just weren’t dependent upon electronics as we are now. It will have no impact on the thinking of religious whack-jobs who hate prosperity and freedom. It will have no impact on language riots in India. Etc., etc., etc.

    • Lu

      You don’t seem to understand the concept of racism do you? This smacks of the same thing that Romney got into trouble so much when he compared Palestinian culture to Israel culture. Your post should be deleted as off-topic, again.

      I think Rossi is saying that while LENR has much promise the reality is there are many problems that have to be addressed before anything actually happens. I think this is the reality but it is also convenient for Rossi who as many have suggested does not really want attention, perhaps only enough to fund his

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Playing the “Race Card” is racist.

    • Filip47

      You are trying to change the subject.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Roger Bird: “LENR will not reduce the risk of a super-massive coronal mass ejection wiping civilization out.”

      Widely distributed, properly protected LENR could be immune to a super-massive coronal mass ejection.

      • Roger Bird

        That is absolutely true, Iggy, and will certainly help. LENR will mean that “the grid” won’t exist and won’t be vulnerable.

        But all of our electronic goodies will still be vulnerable.

        [Was that racist the way I said that. I hope that I haven’t offended anyone.]

        • GreenWin

          True Roger. Imagine if Samsung, LG, and Apple conspired with ET’s to cause a big old CME – consumer electronics would fry (but hardened big iron would survive, i.e. banking systems.) Now, everyone would need to buy new stuff. Preferably at Fry’s Electronics.

          Sorry if I offended ETs.

          • Omega Z

            Now you’ve done it…….

            Targeting 3rd Rock from the Sun With Cold Fusion Beam…

  • MikeP

    I don’t think the world’s water problems will be addressed by desalinization alone. Most arid lands are not adjacent to the ocean. Something more indirect will be needed. The brute force way would be to create water canals (open to theft and disruption). Another possible way would be to use the energy to extract water from the atmosphere, but with the side effect of making areas reached later on by the weather patterns drier. There’s much here to be worked on and thought about, even with a wonderful desalinization product.

    Another kind of water problem where even “home” e-cats could be useful (IMHO) would be for rural areas with no clean water supply. This kind of help would reduce health needs across much of the poorer parts of the world. I don’t see why a charity which is geared toward actually helping people (even if most NGOs are cynical exploiters, I don’t believe that all of them are) couldn’t get in line to buy some home e-cats and start demonstrating how they can solve problems in some parts of the world. It really shouldn’t take all that much money.

    • cheap energy can help desalinization, and why not creating some pipeline of water…
      but it can also help pumping, from river, from ground, generating from air, recycling from waste water

      the fact that it doe snot need grid connection is essential for lost place in underdeveloped countries… like mobile phone. quick deployment

      note also that most of the population is near the sea or river

    • Roger Bird

      It is possible that the evaporation from the desalination stations would offset the removal of water from the air by the condensation stations. I think that the world will become more humid. That could raise the temperature even worse than CO2, but that opens up a whole different discussion.

      • Omega Z

        Roger Bird

        I have wondered if anyone had thought about the heat affect of E-cats.
        People don’t think about Peek Demand when considering going off grid.

        JUST an Example: A Power grid produces 100Kw Electric to provide power to 5 homes covering individual Peek demands as necessary.

        Off Grid customer would need to produce 50Kw+ in order to cover personal peek demand periods. That’s a 150% increase in power. That’s a lot of extra heat.

        Presently, the world uses about 16Tw. Off grid could mean 40Tw needs. World needs 60Tw to bring everyone up to parity. Or a 150Tw off grid not including any new uses such as Desalinization & such.

        Just as Fields of Solar panels can create Heat Vortexes & Wind Turbines effect Air currents that can drastically effect weather patterns, E-cats can also have unforeseen Effects.

        The Proposed E-cat at present would be better suited at this time as a Municipal level power source.(Small Grid Footprint)It would be cheaper & more efficient then what we presently have. Possibly a 50% reduction in energy bills.

        I think in time, technologies will reach a point where individual off grid will be possible, But not economical at this time.

        E-cats are efficient & cheap but, The Generators & equipment costs & maintenance Will in all likelihood cost more then present grid power.

        What’s needed is Solid State Thermal to Electric conversion that meets or exceeds 60% efficiency that’s cheap. Li-On air batteries/ Heat absorption Cooling systems that are efficient & cheap. These are all about 5 to 10 years away.

        People should consider building Underground homes. This by itself reduces Home Energy needs by about 75%. Other advances in lighting & appliances could reduce energy needs by another 15%.

        At this point you only need a 10Kw E-cat instead of 50Kw+. A 2nd 10Kw E-cat for powering up only to charge an electric car or backup.

        There’s a lot of technology nearing marketability. Some already is, but isn’t being used, or incorporated together to be used. People just aren’t aware of it.

        • GreenWin

          “People should consider building Underground homes.” Hopefully they will immediately reject the notion after consideration. Too many human problems arise from burying oneself in metaphorical sand. I prefer to remain in the sunlight of the spirit.

  • Roger Bird

    Given that individuals in a particular country are much more varied and flexible than governments (since there would be only one government per country, presumably), I will admit that the biggest problem will be governments. Although I see problems with Western governments, African governments are much worse and will probably want to control the desalination station and try to gouge more money out of people with this control. LENR will not automatically make people wise, just, and compassionate. Some people will still try to figure a way of making money off of someone else’s need.

    • Andrew Macleod

      Fully agreed.

    • Jim Johnson

      Roger that.

  • Ivan_cev

    About the Fleisman memorial replication project. Celani Said the wire preparation now cost 1/2 of a euro. so with about 200 euros (cost of material) He could produce 50 sets of wires, deliver them to 50 researches and in a couple of weeks we could have replication all around the place, it seams you only need a tube of glass, insulator supports and wind the active and resistive wires on it.
    I will suggest to make a copy of the device with just the resistive wire as control and put it a metre from each other make all mesuraments on both the differences in temperature (excess energy should be obvious).
    also to fully test the devices the active wire winding should be designed in such a way that it should be taken from the active reactor and put in the passive reactor, then the roles will be changed. so no expensive calorimeter and mesurments are needed, just an active and pasive device, with same ohmic resistence and same volume. but most important the input power should be the same and constant.

  • georgehants

    Well done Joseph Fine. A credit to science, being at the front and not following the Dogma worshipers.
    Andrea Rossi
    September 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 PM
    Dear Guest:
    I owe this achievement to a genial idea from Prof. Joseph Fine, who made a “design” that is an art masterpiece.
    Then I put some math. Now, let’s see if it works.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • georgehants

      GreenWin, a coincidence us talking about Art and Science the other day.

      • GreenWin

        george, one goal is to return to open-minded consciousness that does not separate left and right brain function. The artist visualizes what the scientist calculates. Each is a part of the whole sphere. e-cat’s greatest achievement would be to make us one again.

        • Barry

          I hear ya.

    • Omega Z

      georgehants

      Yes, Did you see what he was talking about. A reduction in size of the 1Mw drum. I’ve been following it. If I read it right, it may be .4M instead of 1.2M Guess I need to double check.

      It was Joseph Fines design that caught Rossi attention.
      That 1Mw Shipping container may be capable of a 10 or 20Mw container. Throw that 1Mw sucker in the trunk……..

      By the way, You made a post to me a while back that went into moderation. Never did see it pop up. ARE You sure you didn’t swear at me??? Just kidding.

      Many Kawinky dinks. I Think Rossi watches here..

      • georgehants

        Omega Z, yes allowing as usual that it is just words, Rossi seems amazed at the progress being made.
        My reply to you I think was praise and Frank thought it might effect you, so hid it away. :).

        • Omega Z

          george

          I sometimes think Franks site has been compromised in some way.
          I’ve seen my posts a day latter then several days latter completely disappear.

          And how does posting “Ditto” get moderated. Then Disappear forever.

          GHOSTS IN THE MACHINE???

          Anyway, Have a good day.

      • Omega Z

        .4M instead of 1.2M Guess I need to double check.

        Correction: .8m instead of 1.2M

        They should invent something for bad eyes, Call them glasses or something like that.

  • Omega Z

    Why does Rossi try to make Electricity. Why get involved with Desalinization.

    Different configurations work better for different jobs.

    Had Rossi just sent Siemens a Hot Cat, It’s very likely they would not use it to generate Electricity. It would become a paper weight. A novelty.

    It’s up to Rossi to develop the Product to come within a reasonable range of what Siemens needs to incorporate into a Steam Turbine. At that point, they work together to tweak their individual products to work together.

    Rossi then develops a production system to stats & ships Hot Cats as ordered. Slight modifications may be in order for different customers. Customer Proprietary technology.

    Desalinization will probably require a different configuration, As will heat absorption cooling systems & so forth for maximum utilization.

    Electric generation has certain requirements. Superheated steam, Volumes, PSI, temps. The 1st E-cat cores didn’t cut it. Hence the Hot Cat. Look for further variations overtime & more flexibility in the product.

    With a new product you build to the market. Once you’ve penetrated that market & been accepted, the market will build to you.

  • georgehants
  • there is a livestream set up on the website of the German distributor for the upcoming Zurich conference.
    http://www.ecat-deutschland.org/index.php/live-stream

    • Martin

      Was ist das denn für eine schrottige Homepage? Sieht so eine Website aus, auf der die Energiequelle der Zukunft vertrieben werden soll? Lachhaft.

      • LOL, agree. Especially the term “Generalvertriebslizenzbeteiligter” is the laugh of the day.
        In English it means participant of a general distribution licence or similar, almost impossible to translate such a term.