Report from Zurich Conference Attendee

The following report has been submitted by E. Günther who attended this weekend’s E-Cat Conference in Zurich. Many thanks!

1) Many interesting people from different areas there. Quite some interested physicists like me but even more with less scientific but more business interest. Also there was a slight touch of esoterism. Of course rossi is on the way of becoming sort of a Messiah for all suppressed scientists (and those who think they are or are for a reason 🙂 ). A hand full of reporters, quite some representatives from large organisations or consortium.

2) Going through the talks and summarizing:

a) On day one the only enlightened was the Rossi talk. Even though is was quite the opposite of packed with facts, I was interesting to see that the repot about the hot cat was done very carefully to not give any hold to criticism. I hope the report is the scientific coming out for Rossi.

b) Day two started with the Rossi discussion. From the scientific point of view my colleagues and my question was the most enlightening moment of the discussion and may be for the weekend: Rossi told very openly that he changed his opinion from his viewpoint that the energy comes from transmutation to that the transmutation of Ni is a byproduct of Gamma decay. He said, they measured in special experiments gammas with 40-100 kev. I guess all physicist like me and my friend were intrigued since there is no common decay resulting in such gamma energies. Normally you talk MeV with Gamma decays. But it is excactly what you would excpect from bremsstrahlung of a beta particle in the lattice. And beta decay of 4H to 4He is excactly what is proposed by Widom & Larson or Brioullin Energy and others. So my friend asked about Rossi’s measurement of 4He which you can measure down to 1 Atom. Rossi’s pause and reaction was hard to interpret. I have to look at his face again on youtube. He answered “Your question is very smart, and I agree”.

Everyone laughed. Hard to say if he just had a moment of insight or he already did this measurement and found exactly that and did not want to comment on it.

Other interesting remarks were about scaling: “Just stack them”, about hot-cat: “Within Month”, about tests: “wait for reports or buy and test yourself”.

c) Dr. Hans Weber held an interesting talk about converting heat. I have to check the physics first before I comment on it. His idea seems appealing. Quantisizing the entropy. His experiment would be both: A simple proof of this idea and a highly effective and cheap way to convert heat to electrical energy.

d) The talk of William donavan and Roger Green was an example of good research. They had Rossi’s attention 100%. Rossi will work with them on desalination and water purification.

3) To conclude for me: I am now pretty convinced that Rossi has what he claims. I wasn’t before. Rossi is now open about his theoretical unawareness of the physics. But all his data he published fits with what other more scientific groups found. Him being so covered became much more logic to me. First he had to look to not become a too big target of very powerful organisations. Second, from him being obviously not sure about what is happening I conclude that his devices are
likely even much simpler than expected. Every information might have set someone one in front of the race, especially if it is someone who understands the underlying physics better. So you can go though Rossi’s last 2 years and will find that from that point of view he acted very smart indeed: Nobody believed him or at least not to a level to destroy or copy him. Diversion is a smart move.

  • Filip47

    Mr Andrea Rossi: The Good, the Bad or the Ugly?

    Let’s hope he’s not a ‘Tania Head’.
    At the moment I am very very carefull with my hopes and expectations.
    Mr Rossi is acting very nervous, looking into papers and not reading, looking at his watch al the time, breathing heavely, etc, I wonder what’s behind all this, I think there’s much we don’t know, whether this is good or bad.

    I don’t have the scientific background to interprete all the data. I am just relying on my instincs, the psychology behind all this.
    Don’t get me wrong, I still support everyone who follows this up very closely and giving me the chance to even have an opinion at all. Especially Frank Acland.
    Thanks!

    • jacob

      Filip47,there is no point at watching Rossi’s reactions and trying to read his mind,if you go by your instincts and feelings you may get nowhere.
      After all the evidence ,the doubters still still still doubt.
      why is that?

      It is overwhelming ,the fact that this is not making CNN or mayor media,it may seem surreal to many.

      The truth is,free energy has been around forever,but the knowledge to harness it has been eliminated.

      In the not to distant past , mountains of books were burned and witches were hunted down and burned at the stake, we live in a world where knowledge has been purged.

      To many of us, books of fiction contains more truth than nonfiction books.

      I was better off, not believing anything that was taught about history
      and human evolution , Big oil is just a monopoly ,the price is set by unfair evaluation , Big has shelved more free energy devices than anyone could imagine .

      How things appear, is taking as reality , but this reality is only a illusion created by those who masterfully created it.

      Each and every one of us can create our own reality ,we all have that ability.

      My reality is what I created ,the life I wanted ,the goal of independance ,self sufficiency ,grow my own food , have a life to share with my special lady , create masterpieces ,and free energy devices ,once the forces of nature are understood ,the sky is the limit.

      The power of enertia is my secret .

      Why does it take a car 4 times as long to stop ,by going twice as fast,therein lies the secret.

      combine that with the slingshot effect ,which NASA used in space to double the speed of space probes , you will after many years also understand it’s surplus energy.

      But for now to overcome that you presently know,which is a lot of bunk,and you don’t know yet,what is bunk and what not.

      To start over you have to let go of what has been taught in schools about science and start with a clean slate,erase what you know and start to look and study newtons formulas for acceleration and enertia,
      the formulas will tell the story ,about it.

      To sum it up, newton originally figured in his formulas that if something had twice the speed it would have twice the impact force,but a dutch scientist did lead ball experiments and proved him wrong,newton had to change his formulas.

      twice the speed has 4 times the impact folks ,but half the energy is required to speed up the mass as compared to impact force.

      the formulas have built in overunity,but nobody noticed , how could something so simple have been overlooked ?

      I just explained my secret,how much more simple does it get.

      • Sam

        Sorry if this is a bit out of topic but what is the status of the Original Home Unit…

        We have been waiting a long time for that.
        What needs to be done?

        • barty

          The home units are ready for mass production, but they have to wait for the safety cerfitication before they are able to sell them.

          • Robyn

            I thought he said that he was going to focus on the 1MW plants instead of home units. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

            Thanks

          • barty

            Yes, because at the moment he only can wait for the certification authority which is checking the domestic ecat for it’s safety.

            In the meanwhile he is focusing on the industrial versions.

      • Ivan_Cev

        What is this, Faith in Free Energy?
        Show a prototype a real test, …end of the story.
        Rossi is wasting time with complex test, He just have to heat some water against a blank control device, feed both with the same input, measure both possible with the same meters, and then measure the diff in temp in the water, measure the volume of water
        calculate energy, but make a balance of energy and mass of used water.

      • Bigwilly

        Mr. Jacob,

        I don’t know what theories you are subscribing to but kinetic energy is well described by the E=mV^2. To double the speed of any given mass it will require 4 times the energy.

        I don’t ask you to take my word, or established sciences word on this subject. Do the experiment yourself and you will see.

        Otherwise please link to an experiment or demonstration where excess energy is garnered from kinetic motion of the kind E=mv^2.

        Thanks
        BW

        • jacob

          In time ,I will produce a prototype which uses this effect,not to prove to you that I am right but just for educational purposes for those who are interested in replicating an actual working device.

          The unit I will built will show it’s internal parts like rotor and turbine,self running when assembled with unlimited COP ,I will built it just for youtube.

          As for you BW ,I will just get back with some proof,that’s been around for some time.

          selfrunning waterpowered units have been around since Viktor Schauberger ,Tesla Turbine ,and some Eskeli Patents,and have gotten as much media attention as the E-cat.

  • Francesco CH

    !!!VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION!!!

    THE COMPLETE TEXT OF THE RELATION IS THIS ONE AND ONLY THIS ONE THAT YOU CAN FIND HERE:

    http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123487015_1.pdf

    THIS IS THE ONLY TEXT YOU CAN CONSIDER AS OFFICIAL.

    THANKS

  • AstralProjectee

    Thanks a lot E Günther.

  • Andrew Macleod

    After further reading I came across some discussions Reguarging low emmisive paints. Can these paints affect the data in a major way?

    • I think probably only by failing to radiate 100% of the heat to be dissipated at wavelengths the IR camera can ‘see’. In this case, the data will of course under-estimate the amount of heat being produced, as proportionately more heat will then be lost through convection.

      • daniel maris

        Wasn’t it the concern the other way round – that if Rossi deliberately over-estimated the emissivity of the paint – the build up of heat would be misrepresented as a higher COP? I;m not saying that is my view – but I thought that was the suggestion.

        • I think the assumption in the calculations was that 100% of the heat being dissipated was emitted by the painted surface, but I could be wrong. In any case I can’t see any way that more heat could be detected over a period of stable operation, than is actually present, due to some characteristic of the paint layer.

          Zedshort or Ged?

          • Ged

            Yep, you’re exactly right, Peter.

            The report specifically states the emissivity is estimated as 1 (100%). For reference, the human body also is estimated with an emissivity of 1 when doing heat loss calculations and IR camera work.

            Basically, most non metallic compounds have an emissivity close enough to be approximated as 1, and the paint is specifically meant for that. If it was the bare pipe, this would not necessarily be true.

            Emissivity ranges from 0 – 1. A lower emissivity means less heat is detectible by radiation, and thus the device would have made more heat than we saw using black body.

            Here’s an awesome table of all sorts of materials and their emissivities http://www.optotherm.com/emiss-table.htm

    • Omega Z

      Andrew Macleod

      The Purpose of the black paint is for the camera to work properly. It keeps the steel from being visibly red or shades there of. It Allows for very accurate temp readings. It’s used mostly by Military studies of engine temps. Research.

  • Methusela

    New article at ecatnews:

    http://ecatnews.com/?p=2417

    “UPDATE

    With thanks to Mats Lewan at NyTeknik, he has just informed me that the Swedes have halted their eCat investment after the failed tests. The article is in Swedish but Google translates it well:”

    • georgehants

      This would seem a very fair statement that means everything is on hold until the full results are published.
      It is now up to Rossi to put forward more proof of his technology if he wishes.

    • Renzo

      “After measurement, Hydro Fusion announced investment offer withdrawn, and that the company will now examine whether the measurements affects the entire ECAT technology or just the new model”

      • Haldor

        No 1mw validation is still in course:

        ” It is important to make a clear distinction between högtemperaturprototypen, which test measurement has been made, and the recent safety certified 1 MW plant. We work for a separate validation of the 1 MW plant full operation, says Magnus Holm.”

    • Wolf

      What I find interesting is that they say that the input power has been two to three times higher than what Rossi measured… What else did he “mismeasure”?

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        The hot e-cat doesn’t have a self sustaining mode yet, that’s why the COP was lower then the low temperature e-cat. Because he always claimed a COP of 6, a lower COP can raise suspicion. If the measurements are higher dan 2, he would have no problem finding other investors.

      • the mistake seems that Rossi instrument measure much lower input power (3x) than the University TrueRMS tools…

        I initially thought it was RMS against apparent, but the effect is the opposite.
        Normally if you measure voltage and current, and just multiply, you get apparent power and it can be much higher if the current is dephased from tension, or if there is spikes.

        on possibility could be to have a squared current en voltage, in-phase, but if you use a dumb meter, it can only divide by 2 the apparent power from the real one.

        To divide by tree, you have to feed in signal that is filtered out by the dumb meter, but not by the RMS one.
        If you power the e-ca with high-frequency current, it can behave like that… but in tha case the apparent power will be null… to have just 3, it is hard…

        Rossi is ridiculing LENR, and killing himself.
        In fact it does not impact LENR, or other business players, but for public relation it is catastrophic.

        note that all my critic only hold if the report by NYTeknik is exact… We should check if it is so serious. It can be less dramatic.

        anyway hydrofusion stall is serious.

        • Omega Z

          Alain

          According to the report in NyTeknik Rossi was using Tru RMS instruments.

          I’ve read recently that they have been having problems with incoming power fluctuation & have been trying to fix it. This is not an Isolated problem. It’s the norm. My 1st experience with this was in the 80’s working on a video image to computer transfer hardware & Software. Sometimes great, Sometimes Crap. The Problem-Voltage spikes. There’s a reason things are designed with 10% plus or minus voltage variance. Wind turbines & Solar is partly why they talk about building Smart Grids. They make the problem much worse. You can only build products with so much variance before they no longer work.

          My 1st thought was they need a line voltage Equalizer. You know the devices sold that save you a bunch on your Electric bill. Some say they work. Some say they don’t. My guess is weather you suffer major spikes in your service. Hit or Miss & no one has a tech to check it out.

          Anyway my 2nd thought was to fix the problem at the product as Rossi seems to be trying to do. Because in the real world most wont have a line equalizer.

          Which brings up a problem with people being off grid. If you produce your own electricity, It’s not a use it or lose it process. It’s a Use it or Burn something up process. Home Generating will cost much more then most realize to implement. That’s an entire Story in itself.

  • I am posting this with some reluctance as if I am simply wrong, it comprises needless criticism, and in any case may supply fuel to the naysayers, who seem to be doing well enough on their own efforts at the moment. However I also don’t believe in keeping quiet about any doubts, simply because I stand on a particular side of the fence. I am hoping that by mentioning this here, others more knowledgeable than I can point out where I am in error.

    The following observations refer to the images in the ‘official’ document, http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123487015_1.pdf

    In the shot of the ceramic carrier for the second test (white core laid on scales), which is clearly grooved all around, we see that all four spiral windings are placed in adjacent gooves on one side of the carrier, rather than being evenly spaced around the periphery (there are grooved all around the ‘carrier’. On the picture of the partially disassembled core (seen from the non-wire end laying on a surface) we can see the cross-wire connecting two adjacent spiral windings, and image enhancement also shows a similar wire connecting the next pair of holes, confirming the fact that all four spiral resistances are placed on one side of the core. Unfortunately we don’t know the orientation of the unit during testing.

    However, with all the heater elements on one side of the core like this, there would have been a possibility that this is the side that ended up facing the camera. In this case, although the calculations were performed as if heat dissipation was even across the exterior surface, this may not have been the case. It would also explain the ‘edge anomaly’ that resulted in some fudging of the calculations.

    Of course, this assymetric heater arrangement could also have gone the other way, if the heater elements were in fact on the side away from the camera or at some intermediate position. Nonetheless, it is an area of possible doubt which should not be present, and which seems to need addressing.

    • Marius

      Yes could look that way at that angle but in the first picture in the report, its clear that the wires comes out on the opposite side.

      • The first picture is of the device tested during July. The others are of a different unit (compare the end pictures).

        • Omega Z

          Peter Roe

          In that Fluted ceramic is spiral coils of the heating Element. Would be Similar to elements in a cloths dryer. Or A door spring stretched out so the coils don’t contact each other. So it doesn’t matter the position of wires. At 1200 mag, I don’t see the wires you mention.

          This could be related to Holms freezing investment on the new thread. If these coils should come in contact with each other, they can burn in-two shutting down the Cat.

          Recently READ: (1MW)low temp has 90 modules, 3 of them sleeping. „sleeping modules” will automatically turn on when another module turns off (eg when fault), stabilizing output
          No verification on this info…

          • Omega – If you sharpen the image of the ceramic or fireclay carrier and increase the brightness and contrast, it is possible to make out the spirals within the grooves reasonably clearly. Like an electric dryer as you say. I am a little confused by the 4 ‘twisted pair’ feeds but possibly this is simply to reduce heating of the feed wires by doubling them in order to halve the resistance.

          • On closer inspection of the images, I withdraw my comments about possible asymmetric heating. As Ged points out below, it is clear that in fact the heater elements do occupy all 20 of the channels in the carrier. It’s still not clear exactly where the ‘fuel’ is located within the carrier.

    • Ged

      Hm, which picture exactly do you mean? No matter which way I stare at each of the pictures, it looks like the heating elements are on both sides of the pipe. This includes the white version sitting on the scales — you can see the two wires are on opposite sides of the cylinder from each other, it is impossible for them to be both on the same side. We can only see into four of the ribbed sections between the ceramics, those four are serviced by only two of the four wires, with the other two wires on the opposite side of the cylinder, and it looks evenly distributed…

      So.. hm… It seems symmetrical to me, so I’m not sure exactly what you’re seeing…

  • georgehants

    Today’s report has clearly increased the controversy to the point that only more information and facts will enlighten.
    This can take time and involve as usual much speculation, hopefully fair and sensible until resolved.
    For me I can add nothing but to wait for Evidence.