Sterling Allan of PESN Reports on Zurich Conference

Sterling Allan of PESN has published a report of his experience at the Zurich E-Cat conference, and has provided some interesting details that have not yet come out of previous reports. He reports spending a lot of his time at the conferencewith Roger Green and William Donovan of E-Cat Australia, and also spoke with other attendees and seems to have gleaned some useful information in his discussions. Here are some quotes from his article:

A little secret I’ll let you in on is that Rossi does have self-looped data for the Hot-Cat, but chose not to release that at this time. Self-looped is effectively a COP of infinity. One likely reason for Rossi holding back on that data is that the present stipulation of the safety certification requires that the unit not be self-looped. This is partially because if the input is externally derived, such as from natural gas, then it can be shut off, stopping the reaction; whereas in a self-looped system, such a rapid shut-off would not be as easy.

Within a couple of months, a 1 MW unit is supposed to be installed in Northern Italy that will be able to be inspected by potential buyers. I talked to someone at the conference who may purchase one in Hawaii, and he would gladly let people come see it. Human nature is such that there are few who dare to be first, while most people race to be second.

The self looping referred to here would seem to be the using some of the heat produced by the E-Cat to power its own drive. I am guessing that he has not tried using electricity yet, because of statements from Rossi where he mentions they are still working on being able to produce electricity from the E-Cat. The information here is sketchy, and Allan does not say who told him about this self-looping, but it would not be surprising to me to find that Rossi has been trying all kinds of experiments as he puts the Hot Cat through its paces in the R&D process.

The full report from Sterling Allan can be read here.

  • ivan_cev

    It this real or a rumor?
    If Rossi will show a self sustaining unit, then there is no questions, no need of data, who cares about the input power as at the moment of self_sustaining is zero.
    Why will Rossi held a device like this, THIS IS NOT ABOUT CERTIFICATION, is about to prove the customers your product works because your principle is valid.
    The more Rossi talks about certification the more doubt gets into me.

    • Kim

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again

      Einstien said E=MC2

      So we know how to extract energy from mass in about
      1 millionth of a second. Mushroom Cloud

      Now why is it so hard to understand that this energy
      can be extracted a little slower?

      I see this as inevitable.

      Respect
      Kim

      • ivan_cev

        As long as such a device exist, but at this moment we have no evidence of it, just rumors…..

        • RGCheek

          there is plenty of evidence for it, troll, but you ignore it because you apparently have a sociopathic hatred for Rossi.

          Please go troll elsewhere.

          • Bigwilly

            This harsh comment made it through the new and improved moderation filter?

            How insulting does a post have to be to be rejected?

            BW

          • Harsh maybe, but possibly deserved.

    • Miles

      Doubt?? The more Rossi talk about certification the more he will have to do to make it a certifiable product. Something will eventuate from this.

      • ivan_cev

        Or just gaining time waiting for celani, to create the real reactor.

        • Omega Z

          Ivan

          To much to fast scares people in power. Slow & steady is the course.

          Here’s a thought posted on Rossi’s blog
          100,000 10Kw cores per day for 23+ years just to replace Coal Powered Plants.

          • ivan_cev

            How many years since Poppe Engine?
            I will like to see a small device, for Rossi 1kw. with 1.1 overunity.
            And I will belive the Terawatts of power are around the corner.
            but I only got promises and rumors.

          • RGCheek

            No, you trolls dont care one way or the other.

            Please troll somewhere else.

          • Andrew Macleod

            And a signed published report showing a COP over 2

          • Ivan_cev

            Have you seen the letterhead in the report?
            Here is from the report:
            E-Cat Certification:
            Fabio Penon , M.Eng. (Nuclear Engineer, Product Certification Specialist)
            E-Cat Electronic Control System Specialist:
            Fulvio Fabiani, M.Eng.
            Radiation Protection Report:
            David Bianchini, M.Sc (Physicist, Radiation Measurements Specialist).
            …..
            David Bianchini, M.Sc.
            Via Emilia Ponente 375
            40132 – Bologna
            VAT No. 0137800578
            To the kind attention of :
            EFA Srl [EFA Ltd.]
            Via Marsili 4
            40100 Bologna
            Tax Code and VAT No. 02826781208

            Notice… no Signatures.
            Only Bianchini gives is VAT number.

            Bianchini test radiation.
            The other Guys do not compromise.
            This is not a legal document. it is not signed!!!!!

          • Jim Johnson

            “but I only got promises and rumors.”

            Ah, gee, life’s tough, isn’t it?

  • Venno

    Why would Rossi not get a sterling engine and produce electricity from it and use it to show it works in self sustain mode
    I know that a 165KW sterling engine is a rather large engine for the 1MW, but scale it down to a managable size as dictated by the size of the engine available
    I am sure that the suppliers of the engine would be more than happy to give/lend him a demo unit as it would help their business as well
    I was expecting so much from the conference but now am a bit dissapointed we have to wait more months

    • The complication in that is, though, that one must have some fluid flowing around the hotcat instead of radiation and air cooling. It’s doable, but has he already done so much work without telling anyone. Maybe.

      One simple way to do it would be to first reconfigure the hotcat for higher cop by e.g. increasing the amount of powder or adding some thermal insulation (should be OK in the lab if the worst that can happen is that the nickel melts) and then have infrared photovoltaics around the device to gather DC power for driving another unit. Maybe he doesn’t show it yet because running with high enough COP to enable it might in principle be somewhat risky.

      • ivan_cev

        There is another small complication, He must have a working device!!!!!

        • jedslater

          Just a little bump on the road 😉

        • Jim Johnson

          What’s with the repetitive skepticism? Many of your comments are useful. It’s been noted that you are not 100% convinced, and would like to see a “working device”. What reaction are you not getting that causes you to repeat that information?

      • GreenWin

        Pekka, this IR antenna tech was mentioned at the Zurich Conference:

        https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1555&mode=2&featurestory=DA_144483

        Apparently this can be made as a thin film sheet. And the very fast diodes are now available.

        • Omega Z

          GreenWin

          In the February Video with Mr. Green it was mentioned that Bill Donovan was looking into direct Electrical conversion from the Beta Decay. Sounded as if The process would be done directly from the inside of the E-cat. Mention of 35% to 40% conversion. Sound quality leaves me uncertain if I’m correct.

          The Process was proposed for the Home 10Kw E-cat. A 2 year time frame. Frank posted the video under the Video tab if you wish to watch it.

    • Omega Z

      The Hot Cat is still a prototype in progress.

      He’s already working on a new variation of it.

  • Omega Z

    Andrea Rossi: “I am not strong; I am not intelligent”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rGzaNzAyLc&feature=player_embedded

    • RGCheek

      Rossi has the humility that the wise appreciate and fools ridicule.

      • Omega Z

        Agreed

        I thought Rossi looked a little tired. Probably needs a vacation.

  • Omega Z

    Andrea Rossi post-E-Cat-conference interview with Sterling Allan

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o-4Ik_1gmU

    • cx

      So from the report that Fabian Penon guy is a certifier from sgs

      • Andrew Macleod

        I don’t think the company was named…..

        • admin

          SGS was named by Rossi at the conference, not mentioned in the report.

          • Frank

            Regarding SGS “involvement” read the emails here
            http://shutdownrossi.com/?page_id=1774

          • captain kirk

            Just more lies by Gary Wright…..
            according to Methusela on another site (that appears to have many paid skeptics commenting.. or just morons)
            His company certified some items via SGS for safety and for compliances but his company doesn’t appear on the SGS website search.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Yes this appears to verify that these specific companies do not have any completed certificates with SGS.

          • barty

            It would be better to ask SGS if they have an employee called “Fabian Penon”.

          • Ivan_cev

            I am not surprised,

          • PaulC57

            court order is going to expose the owner of this site to include IP from updates, this is going to look so good in court, to be sure, we are pretty sure who has their hands in this.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Humm….did I miss something???

          • Omega Z

            Why did Gary contact the Philippines office??? Strange

          • PaulC57 – Your post infers access to inside knowledge. Do you act for Andreas Rossi in some legal capacity?

          • Andrew Macleod

            I’m no lawyer but I guess if the ecat is proven beyond any doubts, you’d have him on defamation of character in the least, rusulting in a cease and disist order. Giving the judge wasn’t paid off.

          • hempenearth

            SGS was named at the conference as giving safety certification to the 1MW, industrial plant only. That is the plant that outputs steam at 120 degrees celcius.

          • GreenWin

            As NOTED in two previous posts there appears to be an agenda unfolding at the Swedish Journal NyTeknik where on March 6th a new Editor was appointed to replace Mats Lewan who got a promotion to a new magazine. The new “editor” is Mats Engstrom – a man with absolutely no published technical background who was once a political writer for a Swedish newspaper and a political activist adviser.

            Engstrom is a hardcore climate change advocate who has written vehemently about failures in European climate policy and ways to force the issue back into the public eye. Here on his blog you can read his near-ranting about climate:

            https://matsengstrom.wordpress.com/

            NyTeknik under Mats Lewan took a balanced view of Rossi’s work with Lewan leading by actually going to see and talk to Rossi and scientists observing his work. Suddenly, now with a political writer editing a technology journal, we see hitman type stories based on little evidence. For example, who is the person who tested the hotcat in Bologna September 6?? Where is his data? Where is the report? Who has verified the discrepancy in measurements?? What equipment was used? How was the equipment calibrated??

            We suspect there will be no answers to these questions soon. We can speculate that the one balanced journal reporting on cold fusion is now taken an adversarial role and will write smear stories on Rossi and nothing on LENR.

            This takes little insight to see the play. Removing editors of journals willing to publish non-approved science is a staple of the old school. Had Mats Lewan been editing Ny Teknik as this came down, we would likely never have seen a story until he confirmed the data from whoever the testing party was. Since we still do not have any verified information about the purported test on Sept 6, I will assume it non-existent.

            And I will further suggest that people here who would like to see cold fusion LENR and other alternative energy gain acceptance – write to the owners of Ny Teknik and demand they at least appoint an Editor with a science and technology background. Engstrom is a political writer with no technical credentials. Here is the person who appears in charge of the Swedish division of Talentum Sweden AB:

            Roger Thoren
            President and CEO
            Talentum Sweden AB
            Mäster Samuelsgatan 56
            106 12 Stockholm
            Sweden
            Telephone: +46 8 796 6650
            Email: [email protected]

            Aarne Aktan
            Chief Executive Officer
            Talentum Oyj
            Annankatu 34–36 B, Helsinki
            P.O. Box 920, 00101 Helsinki, Finland
            Telephone: +358 204 4240
            Fax: +358 204 424 130
            Email: [email protected]
            http://www.talentum.fi

            Joachim Berner
            Chairman of the Board
            Talentum Sweden AB
            Mäster Samuelsgatan 56
            106 12 Stockholm
            Sweden
            Telephone: +46 8 796 6650
            Email: [email protected]
            Internet: http://www.talentum.se

          • hammerskoj

            But the original news on Nyteknik has been written [and signed] from Mats Lewan.

          • Claes

            Säd going to say it myself: it was Mats Lewan. You know, conspiracy theories are all fun and entertaing but in the end they’re madness. So why would we believe your analysis? Why are you more credible than Ny Teknik? By the way, why on earth would a climate activist want to scuttle something that would send big oil tumbling to the ground??? Perhaps, you know, the story is this: the test failed and those involved had the integrity to take that to heart. As a matter of fact, I know that’s what happened, but since I won’t betray confidence I’m not going to say more about that (just so you know why I’m hard to budge by speculations). If you don’t believe that, then feel free not to.

          • GreenWin

            Claes, thank you for your comments. Mats was indeed the author of the story – though we still have no evidence from the test. As I understand it the test was only on a hot-cat with a “new power supply and hydrogen source.” There is no “conspiracy” suggested – just information control which has been in place for centuries.

            Since we have now a firm confirmation (SGS Certification) of Rossi’s lower temp technology – one would think the Ny Teknik /Hydrofusion / investor outcry regarding an experimental prototype test result – an over-reaction.

          • GreenWin

            Claes, you ask a very good question re why a climate activist would oppose LENR. I have yet to meet any climate activists who support LENR, cold fusion or Ing Rossi in their work. There have been literally thousands of opportunities for this to occur in green publications and media. To date not a single “green” entity has publicly supported the cold fusion movement.

    • hammerskoj

      I just found an very elegant solution for the true ‘gestalt’ of hot-cat.
      It is is easy to imagine a groove carved in the internal side of ceramic cylindrical supports of resistors holders in which an “external” tungsten tube can be seated.
      So the true arrangement of hot-cat could be the following:

      inner steel tube – inner tungsten tube – OUTER TUNGSTEN TUBE hidden from the two heaters – heaters joined together from outer tungsten tube – outer steel tube.

      Clues: the two heater are too heavy; the two heaters pieces appear very firmly connected on scale flat; at page 6 of the official report is said: … after removing the inner cylinder and two of the ceramic fittings, while leaving the active charge inside the apparatus…; the hot-cat MUST have an axial simmetry on physical ground. The active core MUST seat between two tungsten layers.

      • hammerskoj

        If the arrangement I suggest is true we have a corollary, too: Cures is [sometimes] a liar. Indeed he has answered a direct question on appearance of inner tube in official report images saying that it is made of pure steel and must be only painted.

        • hammerskoj

          Rossi blog:

          Bob Norman
          September 18th, 2011 at 1:45 PM

          “In looking for Lead replacements I found this company:
          h__p://w_w.radiationshieldingsolutions.com/shielding_solutions_xray_gamma_ray_shielding_tungsten_heavy_alloy.html”

          • hammerskoj

            Last but not least, if you have a metallic cylinder very near the heaters resistances, you could have a very high inductive load and wrong power readings ….

        • Lu

          The report does not mention Tungsten at all. So either we are wrong (quite possibly) or the report deliberately misstated the composition of the inner tube. This would be very disturbing on a number of levels.

          • hammerskoj

            The inner tube [2x32x330 mm] weights 705 gr on scale.
            Steel weights 8 gr for cubic centimeter. Tube volume is 66 cubic centimeters, If it were of ‘pure’ steel, would weight 528 grams ONLY. The report is misleading, at least. Rossi has severe problems with Patens Office and so he is forced to hide his IP.

          • Lu

            This is supposed to be an independent report. And I’m sure Rossi reviewed it personally as well.

          • hammerskoj

            The discrepancy is objective. I find it in the official report. Rossi reviewed it for sure …

            Incidentally, I am asking if in the test the inner cylinder was grounded.

          • Lu

            Is there another report other than what was posted here a few days ago?

          • Ivan_cev

            I am repeating this because I think is important.

            Have you seen the letterhead in the report? there is none.
            Here is from the report:

            E-Cat Certification:
            Fabio Penon , M.Eng. (Nuclear Engineer, Product Certification Specialist)
            E-Cat Electronic Control System Specialist:
            Fulvio Fabiani, M.Eng.
            Radiation Protection Report:
            David Bianchini, M.Sc (Physicist, Radiation Measurements Specialist).
            …..
            David Bianchini, M.Sc.
            Via Emilia Ponente 375
            40132 – Bologna
            VAT No. 0137800578
            To the kind attention of :
            EFA Srl [EFA Ltd.]
            Via Marsili 4
            40100 Bologna
            Tax Code and VAT No. 02826781208

            Notice… no Signatures.
            Only Bianchini gives is VAT number.

            Bianchini test radiation.
            The other Guys do not compromise.
            This is not a legal document. it is not signed!!!!!

          • jacob

            Ivan,your comments are not signed either,try looking outside the box sometimes,or read between the lines, Rossi’s E-cat works, Cold Fusion is alive and well, most people are stuck in a distorted reality ,reality is not what you think it is.Sorry you may be among those who have been successfully brain washed by current knowledge high priests.

            peace and live well.

          • ivan_cev

            peace to you as well my friend….keep your high flying thinking.

          • captain

            Ivan_cev … my 2 cents.

          • ivan_cev

            Thanks

          • Max S

            Ivan,
            did you notice that some of the correction documents were apparently edited by an employee of hydrofusion who are still Rossi agents. This suggests they took part in the testing. At least the independence of the reports is seriously compromised because of this.

          • Robert Mockan

            Good observation. Thanks.

          • hammerskoj

            We have two version of report around. One leaked after Zurich conference, the other published from Cures on Cobras forum as the true official one. But weights and images are exactly the same.

          • Omega Z

            hammerskoj

            The long porcelain tube with groves down the sides. That’s where the heater coils are placed. Spiral heaters similar to what is used in cloths dryers.

          • hammerskoj

            Yes, obviously. Never show the inner sides. On scale the two porcelain “thoroids” appear firmly aligned and I speculate that are joined with an axial, internal tungsten tube.

          • Omega Z

            hammerskoj

            Maybe I misunderstand your statement or you mine.

            Just to clarify- You can see the Coils in the slots.

          • How do we know the inner tube volume? We know the outer diameter and length, but not the wall thickness. Did you estimate the wall thickness from the image to arrive at 66 cm3 material volume?

          • hammerskoj

            Easy; from a table of first leaked report: inner tube, thickeness 2mm.
            Documents MUST be read extensively.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            Inner tube thickness is stated in the ‘official’ report too. Page 12.

          • admin

            Just to clarify,

            The first report was not ‘leaked’. It was sent to me by Andrea Rossi some days before the Zurich Conference. Just before the conference he sent me the errata.

            The other report on the cobra site seems to be a corrected report incorporating the errata.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex-1
    —–
    Cavitation-Induced Fusion: Proof of Concept – Max I. Fomitchev-Zamilov
    Cavitation-induced fusion (also known as bubble fusion or sonofusion) has
    been a topic of much debate and controversy and is generally (albeit
    incorrectly) perceived as unworkable. In this paper we present the
    theoretical foundations of cavitation-induced fusion and summarize the
    experimental results of the research conducted in the past 20 years. Based
    on the systematic study of all available data we conclude that the
    cavitation-induced fusion is feasible, doable, and can be used for
    commercial power generation. We present the results of our own research
    and disclose a
    commercial reactor prototype.
    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1209/1209.2407.pdf

    • Pachu

      Hey george, no UFOs and one interesting arxiv article, nice.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      How does this differ from Griggs’ Hydro Dynamics cavitation reactor?
      http://hydrodynamics.com/technology/

  • hammerskoj

    Shielding is tungsten [Rossi’ answer on his blog].
    Page 4 of first, LEAKED report 105322688-Penon4-1.pdf, extract and enlarge bottom left image with gauge: it shows clearly that inner tube is double.

    • Gerald

      Maybe a strange thought. Is it possible to use magnetisme to align the nikkel powder in the way you want? In this case stick to the inner side of the tungsten tube. Only thing, i was reading that nikkel wasn’t magnetic at higher tempetures, so maybe you need another compouned in the nikkel. I don’t have knowledgd about these kind of things, just a thought.

      • There has been a lot of discussion about ‘unwanted frequencies’ and similar in regard to the electrical feed. I wonder if the heater coils might be used as a RF antenna, in addition to providing simple heating? Rossi has mentioned RF stimulation on several occasions in the past, but this seems to be the only way it could be applied in the hot cat apparatus. Use of RF chopping would certainly screw up any simple instrumentation, and might have made the Swedish technician unhappy!

        • Omega Z

          Peter

          Yes Rossi has stated on several occasions that RF is used.

    • Hammerskoj – If the inner tube is double-walled, then it may be that the ‘charge’ is contained between the two walls (I assume that is what you think may be the case).

      It would then make sense that both walls were tungsten, both to provide high temperature stability, and to provide shielding in in both directions (20% of any radiation into the inner void would escape according to Zedshort’s calculations for IR emissions).

      This arrangement may contradict one or two statements made by Rossi and ‘Cures’ but it would make a lot of sense, and would certainly explain observations such as the very hot interior with a relatively cool exterior. In this case of course, the SGS test would have detected only heat leaking back through the ceramic core to the outer skin.

      • A couple of other interesting implications if a thin annulus between double inner tubes is in fact the location of the reactor materials:

        (a) The first is that the design is almost deliberately inefficient, in that the heating elements are placed close to the large outer tube, but separated from the core by the thickness of the ceramic carrier unit. This arrangement seems to ensure maximum input heat loss through the outer skin and minimum transfer of heat to the core.

        (b) The second is that there is no way that heat, per se, can be used in the ‘hot cat’ as a control mechanism. The reason is the thermal mass of the ceramic carrier of the heating elements, which very ensures poor coupling of input power to heat actually reaching the core. It seems clear to me that heat is only required to establish an optimum environment (which appears to be around 600C according to Ged’s observations of the temp curve). Stimulation of anomalous heat production is therefore by some other means, most likely frequency modulation of the heater supply to induce EM fields that affect the core.

    • I’ve enhanced and magnified a copy of the image you refer to and agree that the inner tube definitely looks twin-walled; 2 walls about 1.5mm thick with a gap between them possibly 0.1-0.3mm. This would be sufficient to house a layer of fuel ‘paint’ applied to the inner tube and allowed to dry, before bonding on the outer tube (Pekka has calculated that only a few microns would be required.)

      Very well spotted!

      One other remote possibility occurs to me – that the hot cat actually uses tungsten in the walls of the tubes as ‘fuel’, like the Pirelli high school experiments. In this case the ‘fill’ between the tubes could be a mixture of catalyst(?) and a hydride H2 donor.

      • artefact

        In the report it says, that also to inner tube is painted with the expensive paint if I remember correct.
        Never the less a fuel paint would be interesting.

        • Yes, the inside of the inner tube assembly could have been painted with ‘jet engine’ paint, although this doesn’t seem to have been necessary as IR was not measured from the core. Given the cost of the stuff that seems a bit odd!

      • hammerskoj

        The COLOR of external face of inner tube before painting is wrong. Compare with the color and shimmer of steel plate of scale. I have worked with tungsten plate and tube’s color is very near. I picked up many small incongruences in the leaked report, too. The before and after weights are strange, for example. And dismantled inner tube appears non perfectly round, his right side shows a sort of dent.

        • hammerskoj

          Inner tube has a volume of 65,98 cubic centimeters and weight 705 grams. If were build from mild steel it would weight 518,6 grams. It weight 705 grams on scale.

          • It does all add up – I think the idea of twin tungsten tubes with a thin layer of something in between is probably correct. Posibly the ‘dent’ you see is a way to ensure that the inner of the two tubes can be jammed into the outer one, leaving a small gap.

            As a separate hydrogen donor ‘pill’ as suggested by Rossi or ‘cures’ would not be able to supply H2 to the space between the two tubes, the hydride must in fact be between the two tubes along with the ‘fuel’ and/or catalyst, making the ‘inner tube’ the actual reactor. All that would be needed is to seal the thin annular gap at the ends with the smelter grade fireclay (it could be mechanically sealed for a production version).

            Presumably the gas version consists of simply heating the reactor tube using an internal flame.

          • hammerskoj

            Two twin tungsten tubes would weight too much. Tungsten density is 19,25 grams/cubic centimeter. Only the external one is tungsten, perhaps. It is easy to proof or disproof. Assume one millimeter wall thickness. The same [as check] for the external tube. Note that the reactor don’t appear pressurized, but it MUST contain a source of H.

          • Nick Pourmi

            If the interior tubes are made of steel and tungsten they could detach/separate from each other because of the different thermal expansion coefficient of the two metals heating up to 1000° Celsius.

          • Twin tungsten tubes does seem more likely to me. Perhaps the ends are thickened slightly to allow a jam fit. I’m assuming that tungsten is required either for its temperature tolerance, or because the metal is itself a part of the nucleonic reaction, rather than for shielding (for which any mass would do, so probably a ‘red herring’).

          • Andrew Macleod

            Maybe it’s part of the self sustain mode. A seperate reaction is taking place between the 2 tubes to help supply heat to the larger reaction chamber.

          • hammerskoj

            Look a pag. 4, image upper right. You can see two boxes in tha background. One at right is a gloves box. The other contains small sealed bags: the H pills? or the active charges?

          • hammerskoj

            See:
            h__p://www.bangoalloy.com/Tungsten-Tube/

          • They look like medical type disposable nose filters to me. They are often available in labs where powders are handled, as a less intrusive alternative to a mask.

          • Lu

            Since W (Tungsten)is being used for the shielding it makes sense that the reaction is between the 2 inner cylinders, the external one W and the internal one stainless steel. Rossi says that the fuel is only about 2 grams (versus 20+ for the active ingredient in the report). Would this fit within the inner cylinder sandwich (too hurried to do the calculation).

          • Ged

            This definitely seems to be the best working theory. Awesome work guys on dissecting all this information!

          • Hammerskoj spotted the thin line around the end of the inner tube image, indicating a double wall. Others including myself have just elaborated the idea a bit!

            It does look like a pretty good possible explanation of the fuel/donor location, that Rossi, ‘cures’ and even the testers seemed at pains not to identify (in fact there seem to be a few ‘red herrings’ around).

          • In the last thread, Pekka Janhunen calculated that if the ‘charge’ was 1.5g, a layer less than 10 microns thick would be all that’s needed. It might be a bit more than this if a hydride H2 donor is also present (it must be) either mixed or in another layer, but would still be easily thin enough to fit between two tubes with say 0.2-0.3mm clearance.

          • GreenWin

            Reading through this, you guys have done some awesome remote engineering. It’s a challenge to reverse engineer a device using only photos and snippets of fact.

            I would like to hire this team to rev-engineer artifacts found on Mars… If there are any 🙂 Found.

          • It’s probably all a load of cobblers!

    • georgehants

      From Cold Fusion Times —-
      Magnetic Effects Featured at
      CF/LANR Nanostructured Materials Colloquium at MIT
      The JET Energy NANOR Explorer™ Produces CF/LANR Results
      Sept. 11, 2012 – Cambridge, MA. – Continuing to address the unique lattice material science (including the optical and acoustic properties) and electrical engineering aspects of cold fusion (lattice assisted nuclear reactions (CF/LANR) Dr. Mitchell Swartz (JET Energy, Inc.) and MIT’s Prof. Peter Hagelstein continued their Colloquia at MIT on September 6, 2012. This series featured updates on CF/LANR nanostructured materials, and the impact of magnetic fields on CF/LANR nanomaterials, such as ZrO2-PdNiD. Dr. Swartz presented data showing augmentation of conventional cold fusion using magnetic fields impacting NANOR™ CF/LANR devices, observed when driven by the JET Energy “NANOR Explorer”. Dr. Brian Ahern of Vibronics, Inc. shared data showing possible energy gain in nanostructured ferrites. The next engineering meeting anticipates discussion of Prof. Hagelstein’s physics theory of understanding He4* de-excitation through lossy processes involving spin bosons, recent CR39 investigations involving NANORs and other CF/LANR devices, and rapidly developing technologies.
      http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html

      • Love the phrase “conventional cold fusion”!

        Its a v. interesting article that ‘hardens’ what many have suspected; that magnetic fields (and probably RF and pulsed current flow) are promotors of the AHE.

        An article in Italian below “5 demands of Homo Scepticus” looks like fun, too, but I haven’t put it through G-trans yet.

        • Ged

          Hahaha, that cracked a smile on my face. We’ve advanced to the point where we can think of the old experiments as “conventional cold fusion”? Wow.

          These are fascinating results, and so awesome to see these successful experiments are continuing. A comprehensive picture of how cold fusion works is swiftly emerging.

          • Ivan_cev

            I will like to buy one of this NANOR devices!!!
            It could be a wonderful toy demo.
            As I said before a COP of 1.1 shows the way to Tera-watts of excess power, in this case the COP is much higher 14 to 17, but the output is in milliwatts so the input is in micro-watts.
            Still ok. As Homoscalatus, is a specialist making thing bigger and better.

      • Sanjeev

        Now this is what I call real research. Put that thing in magnetic fields, electric fields and what not. Just to see the effects and may be to enhance it. Because no one knows what will do the magic.

        • Yep – if Edison was alive he would be on combination/permutation #200 at least by now!

        • Ged

          This is the beauty of empirical experimentation 😀

  • georgehants

    Joe
    September 12th, 2012 at 4:14 AM
    Dr Rossi,
    1. Does the Hot Cat use Pb shielding?
    2. Does the Hot Cat use benzene?
    3. Does the Hot Cat use only STABLE isotopes of Ni?
    4. If so, does the Hot Cat leave the ratio of isotopes essentially UNchanged after use?
    5. Does MOST of the heat generated by the Hot Cat come from phenomena OTHER than transmutation of elements?
    All the best,
    Joe
    ——
    Andrea Rossi
    September 12th, 2012 at 4:25 AM
    Dear Joe:
    1- no, W shielding
    2- no
    3- yes
    4- i think so, but the possible variations are so small that it is difficult to know, they could be contained in the variation range of the natural composition
    5- yes

  • hammerskoj

    In image at pag.9 of 105322688-Penon4-1.pdf, thermocamera is far too left of device. Reported images need a centered camera.

    • jacob

      hammerskoj,Don’t worry about the thermocamera ,the thing will run is self sustain mode for six month,when it reaches the same temperature as the heating element.
      I wondered right from the start,why a 2.2 KW heating element was required for the Hot Cat,really huge for such a small unit,but specifically designed to reach self sustain mode and infinite COP.

      WELL DONE ROSSI 🙂

      • hammerskoj

        I worry for each discrepancy in test setup. Realty allows no contradictions.

    • Ged

      What? I don’t see how it is left of the device? What do you mean? You keep seeing things in these pictures and I can’t follow you.

      Regardless, a thermal camera can be up to 30 degrees off perpendicular center and work just fine. I’m not sure what the max is, but I do know 30 degrees is no problem. It looks like the camera is straight on perpendicular. So, even if the camera is a little left or right, yet perpendicular, it’s completely fine, as the entire device is still in the camera’s window.

      In other words, it doesn’t matter if the camera is to the right or left as long as its -angle- of view is within 30 degrees of perpendicular, and the device is within the camera’s view widow. Your concerns seem unfounded.

      • Ged

        Ok, found the picture which shows where the camera is (page 8, rather than 9, which confused me). As I said, that’s completely fine for thermal imaging. It’s the -angle- of the view that matters for thermal, and that is indeed a perpendicular angle, so we’re all good on that point.

        (Also, what will happen at angles off perpendicular is that less of the heat will be detectable due to incidence. So, if the camera was off angle to the point where the results were affected, it means there was more heat than detected)

      • KenLebrun

        The positioning of the camera is essential in order to calculate total heat emited from the cylinder, thus measuring total energy out.

        If the camera is not centered it throws the calculations off. With a thermal camera used in this case, it must be perpendicular to the cylinder in order to correctly interpolate the total energy release, assuming the heat distribution was equal on all axis.

        Unless you knew the exact angle and horizontal offset of the camera from the device, all calculations will be off. Good thing however, all calculations would be off, yet they would read an overall lower output than the actual.

        • Ged

          Yep, exactly. The angle looks to be perpendicular, so emissivity should be close enough to max that we don’t have to worry. The only deal will be the angle of the extreme end away from the camera. However, if it is within 30 degrees, there is no tangible change to our results (and that is what it looks like).

          When evaluating solar panels, for instance, reliable thermal imagining can be done up to 60 degrees off perpendicular.

          This issue is really a non issue, and again as you and I have pointed out, any affect on the calculations will be to incorrectly decrease the amount of heat we calculate as being generated. The picture is better than we think.

      • Renzo

        Andrea Rossi
        September 13th, 2012 at 1:45 AM
        Dear Giuseppe B.:
        Mr “Gary Wright” ( a false name that the coward snake ( The Snake) is using for cowardice, has contacted SGS in an unproper way and has put an unproper question.
        So he published on his newbogusenergybricolage that we do not have a SGS certificate. This is the evidence, as if there was any necessity, that when the Snake ( or, better, the puppet Snake) as usually has published a falsity.

        Within hours you will find our Voluntary Safety Certificate.

        So you will see who is that says the truth and who is that has an agenda.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        • cx

          nice can’t wait

        • Andrew Macleod

          Just as I expected… Sometimes you can get the answers you want by asking the wrong questions.

        • daniel maris

          Excellent news. We seem to be creeping towards validation…

          If Rossi is a scam artist, then he has taken the scam to a whole new level. Hey sceptics! – at least give him that credit!!

          I am hopeful that within a few weeks we will have some definitive proof of this technology and some understanding of the position on marketing. If not, well Rossi’s credibility may well collapse at that point.

        • Martin

          “Voluntary”? So this testing for safety was not part of an official product certification?

  • Francesco CH

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=733&cpage=1#comment-319663

    Andrea Rossi
    September 12th, 2012 at 3:53 AM

    Dear Felize:
    We will be able to couple the Hot Cat to a turnbine and make the Carnot Cycle only after our validation tests, R&D and measurements will have been finished. All the results we got so far, have to be confirmed with cross examinations.
    At that point we will make the coupling and with a good efficiency we will have a tremendous achievement: the drive will be made by the system itself. I think you understand. But a lot of work has to be done to arrive here. We are on our way…
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Andrew Macleod

      This will be the true validation test. A closed loop system generating electricity with no input(except for the initial startup). I wonder if a battery could supply enough juice to get it started? Then once started it could charge the battery back up.

      • Tom Andersen

        Does not matter if they use a battery. what matters is that the device produces more energy than can be contained in the box using chemistry means. So a battery is ideal. Also pulling the starting plug would be OK.

        • Andrew Macleod

          I’m just wondering if it could be designed in such a way that it produces energy without any need of outside power. Like a car you don’t need to plug it in to get it started(except in Canada we need block heaters).

  • captain kirk

    I love the T-shirt mentioned in Sterling Allen’s article…. Rossi’s answer to critics….
    absolutely hilarious I will be ordering one… http://www.zazzle.com/andrea_rossi_caricature_for_dark_colors_t_shirt-235377601069236725

    • Andrew Macleod

      That’s too funny! I wonder what Rossis reaction to this willd be. I don’t think he’ll be too extatic about it.

      • clovis

        Hi, guys
        I liked the one that said,vote Rossie and Focardi for noble prize.
        no joking.

        • Ivan_cev

          Only people who disclose and publish and prove their discoveries get Nobel prices. I think this will not be possible due an NDA!

          • Andrew Macleod

            If I had the secret and got refused a patent to protect my IP then I would be dolling out NDAs like candy on Halloween. It’s not unusual behavior. I’m pretty sure most others would do the same.

          • Ivan_cev

            If you have an invention based in an unprove principle, you could patent it if you get your device to the pattent office and they prove it works!, they you will be trillonarie, and get a nobel price also, and your name will be in future science books, and some unit of messurment will carry your name….etc.
            But if you go with docs and reports. yes! will be rejected.

          • jacob

            dream on Ivan,reality is different,thousands of patents are blocked due to national security issues,energy is covered under national security,The E-cat did not just get missed by the media,media follows protocol,reporting on E-cat is restricted and forbidden.

            that is reality !!!!

          • ivan_cev

            ..There is still a big world outside the USA.

      • clovis

        oops again

      • Omega Z

        This T-shirt has been around a while. I think someone posted the link to Rossi sometime ago.

    • If you live in Australia, the t-shirts are also available at http://www.21stcenturyenergyrevolution.com.au

  • Andrew Macleod

    @ivan_cev

    Your trolling is monotonous. Here are the facts. Rossi has published a signed report with method and data showing he has a working product. The screams of fraud and scam aren’t based on facts, there is no supporting evidence for these claims. No investor or potential customer had filed any kind of lawsuit, there is no warrant for his arrest, There is no evidence! If you come across some I will listen but until then knock it off.

    • clovis

      Hi, Andrew.
      I agree, Great piece frank, I love this from Sterling.

      Human nature is such that there are few who dare to be first, while most people race to be second.

      GREAT THINGS ARE HAPPENING if you listen, you can sometimes hear it above the constant babel of the ignorant.

      • Ivan_cev

        Still early stages…. wait and see.

    • Ivan_cev

      The behavior of Rossi is self evident.
      He is developing a device that should work for 6 months, then refill.
      Then in his factory he should have a dozen units working continuously producing heat steam etc, and will be the demo for his investors.
      No investor has seen a working device.
      The measurements are now in doubt, and is clear the source of the problem is the power supply.
      Any serious inventor will have a prototype to show the principle in which the invention is based.
      To any question the answer is “We waiting for Certification”.
      The last report is based in Measurement of the input power and heat, now the observation of the input power has been questioned.
      This pattern will go on for the years to came, until some investor lose patience.
      I know you would like the E-cat to be real, me too but after two years reading about Rossi, I am now convince that He is the biggest thread to the LENR field.

      Any way…..I admire your faith.

      • Jim Johnson

        @Ivan_cev

        “Any serious inventor will have a prototype to show the principle in which the invention is based.”

        And who will they show it to? Do you regard the people who built Silicon Valley as serious inventors? What is your familiarity with their patterns of behavior?

        Or are you just making stuff up and expressing it in that particular tone of writing?

        • Ivan_cev

          Will show it to the patent office, so he could get a patent.
          Will show it to the public so he will get customers, licensees, partners, etc.
          Silicon valley are working on tested and accepted principles.
          We talking about an “impossible” device here.
          If Rossi have the device, then he is missing trillions of dollars in investing money. Just show the prototype in a serious scientific way use a professional adviser to design the test. People will invest in e_cats like crazy.

          • Venno

            agreed with Ivan
            I cant believe that a power utility can make a kWh meter and use it effectvely all over the world and there seems to be doubt as to how power is measured in the ecat

      • Andrew Macleod

        There are many good points there Ivan…… Could you give me some links to verify the source of this info?

        • ivan_cev

          Please Specify the point you need clarification

  • Andrew Macleod

    Wow the wiki updaters are quick, it’s already reporting that the swedes pulled out… I didn’t see any mention of the published report tho..

    • The speed proves that someone on wikipedia is constantly monitoring the topic for negative ‘news’ that can be used to ‘diss’ the subject.

      • Andrew Macleod

        The page is also being concidered for deletion.

        • jacob

          which page?

          • Andrew Macleod
          • jacob

            wikipedia.org is collecting negative things about the E-cat.

            Why? to support the status quo ?
            some body thinks the E-cat is an impossibility ? ,I guess based on what they know,and it appears they are not playing with a full deck of cards and based on what they learned in college science class,which is not much.

            so much for wikipedia.org about fair play and educating and brainwashing the media, most people would trust wiki’s information,but their views are distorted reality,when it comes to the E-cat.

            wikipedia ,lie and live well !

    • Bigwilly

      Big Oil/Wind/Horse and Buggy Manufactures have had wiki on lock down for years. Dont expect anything on there to be unbiased.

      BW

      • Jim Johnson

        Would Big Energy(or just Big Energy investors) hire shills to throw spikes in the road of LENR? “Of COURSE they would”. No ethics, lots of money, completely self-centered. It works for Assad in Syria and the Chinese government with respect to Tibet and Taiwan, why not for Big Energy investors in the Heartland?

        Nasty. But technical progress will just crush them out the way anyway. It always does.

  • misterCool

    How many versions of iPhone do we get before we se an e-cat?

    (sorry had to say it)

    • Methusela

      Dunno.

      Perhaps Apple will invest and we’ll get an iCat?

    • John

      10-20 I’d guess.

    • Hampus

      Depends on what ecat you mean, the industrial we will soo within a few months. But the domestic will properly take at least one more iphone