Hot Cat Redesign

The latest from Andrea Rossi on the hot cat — all caps!


Rossi certainly works fast. This change looks to be in response to the problems that Hydrofusion reported their testers were having, and also in the difficulty of calculating energy emitted by an inner and an outer cylinder in the first hot cat configuration. Certified instrumentation should help put to rest concerns about measurement error, also.

  • Michael

    New design means that the recently showed certificate is worthless, or?…..

    • barty

      The certificate by SGS was about the 1MW “low temperature” ecat.

      • Michael

        I have checked. You are right. I thought the low temperature e-cat was put into the darkness. It is very confusing that both a low and high temperature e-cat are developed, and I cannot find out if the processes claimed are the same.

        • No one, except Rossi and his scientists, knows what exactly is the difference.

          The low temperatur ecat is stable and ready for market, according to Rossi.
          Rossi will not do any re-design if the safety certifier will not require them.

          The 1MW plant is a bundle of low temperatur ecat’s, also used for the domestic ecat’s.

          • Pretender

            No, Rossi says numerously that low-temp basic unit of 1MW low-temp is different tech then low-temp unwanted home e-cat.

            In reality, home e-cat is LAST thing he want to produce.

          • georgehants

            Pretender, you said —-
            “In reality, home e-cat is LAST thing he want to produce.”
            That’s interesting, could you give a link to your source or can I assume you forgot to put that, —- in my opinion.—

          • Pretender

            no link, this is my analysis, three times confirmed

            think: “I will publish what processes are inside after my IP will protected” this statement is equivalent to: home e-cat is last thing what I want to produce

          • georgehants

            Pretender, no link necessary for your analysis and opinion.
            The first time you appeared to be stating it as a fact.
            Thank you

          • Jim Johnson

            “Equivalent to”…would you please share the intermediate logic of getting from one to the other? I’m having a little trouble making the connection.

          • Off-topic: George, if you haven’t already done so, you might want to follow Admin’s ‘Steorn’ link above then look at the ‘Baltic anomaly’ links at the right. Fascinating stuff.

          • georgehants

            Ha. Peter, yes but that was a picture of an artists impression.
            The real thing is not quite as pretty.
            But as always, the unusual is always interesting.

          • ‘Debunk’ stories always sound alarms for me. There is a slightly better write-up here:

          • georgehants

            Hey, you sound really interested, this site keeps up with most anomalies but of course one has filter as one see’s fit.

          • Omega Z


            When things are slow, I revisit old info.
            I don’t think I have a link in my 100’s of tabs, but here is what I recall. Pre July of 2011 I believe??

            The plan/intent was to go with the Home E-cat, But they knew it was a possibility that certification of home E-cat may depend on safety data from Commercial/Industrial units which are easier to obtain.

            Which is how it worked out. I think they were overly optimistic in slipping the Home unit by 1st.

            There’s most likely some behind the scenes politics going on were not aware of also. Like do it this way or we wont let it happen at all.

          • georgehants

            Omega Z, good morning,fully agree but I think one could spend a lifetime following every detail.
            If there is controversy I tend to wait for the air to clear and Evidence to arise.
            When things are quiet I stroll over reports of a kind where real science is discussed.
            I do not believe or disbelieve the reports, but science not following them to establish competently with research is irrational.
            X marks the spot: Walter Elliot on his use of ancient art of divination
            Scottish Borders Council’s archaeologist Dr Chris Bowles cautiously supported some of Walter’s claims.

            He said: “We’re excavating a bishop’s palace near Ancrum in October, and the guy who told us it was there was a diviner. We tested his claims with geophysics, and it was broadely similar to the plans he got with divining rods. That’s why I say there could be something in it: I’m 50/50 on it.
            The jury’s definitely out.

          • Ged

            Barty is completely correct. The low-temp 1 MW and home units are the same technology, they aren’t different. The hot cat is where things get different.

          • Michael

            So, probably different processes in the low and high temp e-cat. How many other unknown processes has he discovered?

  • Redford

    Steorn still exists ? Where do they find the money ??

    • admin

      This is the last word I could find about Steorn:

    • People with deep pockets and shallow brains.

    • Bigwilly

      Why is Steorn surely false and Rossi worthy of waiting to find out?


    • Pretender

      Shteorn don¨t told last word

    • Ash

      There is a newish Q&A on Moletrap with the head of Steorn’s jury which confirms what many thought all along – Steorn was a delusion funded by $25m from unsophisticated Irish investors (sheep farmers as it happens)

      • Yes, is always my first port of call when I want the pure unadulterated truth. Not.

        (For those not familiar with the moletrap site, it is the main hangout of the pseudo-skeptics who repeatedly post disinformation and diversions on the LENR blogs).

        • Bigwilly

          Can we get a ruling from Mr. Georgehants on Steorn?

          I know you like to reserve judgment so because Steorn has not been prosecuted do you still regard them just as viable as Rossi and Tiley?


          • georgehants

            Mr. Bigwilly, hello,.
            I am afraid that I know nothing re. Steorn, but yes I reserve judgement on all of science to facts and Evidence.
            Before the Evidence often comes a good theory, mixed with a dose of common-sense, insight and intuition, as many great scientists have used these gifts to progress.
            like with scientists, it is easy to judge people who comment on these pages and anywhere, based on if they are able to discriminate between opinion and facts.

        • Ash

          Regardless, the Moletrap site has a q&a with the scientist that Steorn appointed to validate their delusions, who shares a perspective we haven’t heard before on the whole adventure.

          In the case of Steorn, you must admit the skeptics were right!

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Rossi certainly works fast.

    Indeed. At the speed of write.

    • Fibber McGourlick

      LOL Very Clever.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Social SkepWork.

        • Quite a bit of that about on this blog recently.

    • Robyn

      That’s awesome. I don’t care if you think Rossi is valid or not, that’s a class A burn.

    • Pachu

      + 1

      • freethinker


    • freethinker

      It was indeed a clever joke, but I guess it has more depth than that. Note, my Porlockian friend, that he does not work alone.

  • I hope Rossi et al will produce a test of the device without the action of hydrogen in the system, heated to a temperature equal to that of the active device. Such a system would demonstrate heat after death in the active device and could be used to calibrate the instruments used to assess the performance of the active cat.

  • Didymus

    If Rossi can make major changes to the Hot-Cat so easily here is a quick experiment he can try. Assemble the identical device but leave out the nickel, hydrogen generator and assorted pixie-dust. Carry out exactly the same input/output test. If the apparent COP is still about 2 then we can discount both test results as due to measurement error. Such a control experiment is long overdue.

    • Tom775257

      He has already stated that he has produced a ‘dummy’ hot cat unit (control) for testing vs. the ‘full fat’ device.

      • Ivan_cev

        This is not the definition of a control device, a DUMMY is an empty container and produces no data, this is what is called DUMMY. like a DUMMY table in a database.
        A control device is not DUMMY, its data is quiet important to “control” the input and output in the devices, and has to be built carefully to match the input features of the device to control!
        Let hope Rossi control device is not a “DUMMY”

        • You are talking rubbish as usual. Tom775257 states that by dummy he means a ‘control’. A ‘control’ is an inert copy of the active device, against which it is compared. This is what is needed and this is what Rossi is proposing.

          • Ivan_cev

            OK, lets Rossi define what a Dummy is!, at the end of the day He also uses Kwh/h, I am still searching for what this means.

          • georgehants

            Ivan, have you researched the word inverabunce, lets see what you can come up with.

          • You haven’t searched hard enough apparently, ivan. A kW is an instantaneous measure of power, a kWh/h is a widely used measurement of output power over time.


            It’s not Rossi who is the dummy here.

          • Ivan_cev

            What you pointing is just the proccess of converting wh to w as wh is the watts spend in a unit of time.

            Unfortunatelly here you have show that you need to understand a bit more about physical units.

            Below is what you have point to:

            How to convert kWh to watts
            How to convert energy in kilowatt-hour (kWh) to electric power in watts (W).

            You can calculate watts from kilowatt-hour and hours, but you can’t convert kilowatt-hour to watt unit, since kilowatt-hour and watt units represent different quantities.

            Kilowatts-hour to watts calculation formula
            The power P in watts (W) is equal to 1000 times the energy E in kilowatt-hour (kWh), divided by the time period t in hours (hr):

            P(W) = 1000 × E(kWh) / t(hr)


            watt = kilowatt-hour / hour


            W = 1000 × kWh / h

            What is the power consumption in watts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

            P = 1000 × 15 kWh / 3 h = 5000 W

          • Thinksforself

            Ivan you either never took high school physics or chemistry or failed them both. I was taught you can cross cancel unit descriptors. So with that tiny bit of rudimentary science knowledge kWh/h becomes kW. My guess is that you understand that very well but are in truth one of the hot fusion scam scientists or are a pad shill of the current energy industry.

  • Lu

    I don’t think the hot-cat has been re-designed per say, only the test configuration used to heat the fuel. Rossi wants to bring the hot-cat to the market as soon as possible and wants to get this testing behind him so he can do that. We’ll just have to wait a few more months, as usual. Despite the controversy surrounding the initial test report, I think the initial report Rossi has released is good and has strengthened my belief that the E-Cat is the real deal.

    From my perspective I am expecting a pretty final and definitive test report by the end of the year. It should contain test results by independent and credible testers, results from control tests (“dummy tests”), and tests of gas heated E-Cats. By then we should also have reports from visitors of 1MW plants.

    • SteveH

      I read Rossi’s comment to mean that he has excluded the contribution of heat radiated from the inner cylinder from the measurements. For the purposes of evaluating the device, he is discounting the inner cylinder completely. This is an example of his being conservative in the measurements.

      Has he not said that the active portion of the reactor is in the torus between the two cylinders many times. I don’t think this a completely new reactor with the active portion, what, exposed in air?

      • Lu

        Prior to this it was excluded in the calculations since it was internal for the most part (except at the ends).

        No he physically removed the inner cylinder(“WE HAVE ELIMINATED THE INTERNAL CYLINDER”), probably for testing purposes. Remember all he is trying to show is over-unity and an energy density that exceeds all chemical and mechanical sources, i.e., LENR.

  • Budweiser

    Rossi has test data of a hot cat running with almost no input power; self sustain mode allows for such operation of the device. Like has been said before, the safety certificators are forcing him to use a “drive” that consumes kilowatts of power. The hot cat does not require such a drive, however. Without it, the COP can reach 200 or higher.

    • Rossi claims it is ‘the certificators’ who are insisting on a low COP, but it is possible that it is part of his game plan anyway. Mustn’t startle the wildlife (at least, not too soon).

      • LCD

        This is actually a very interesting point. If one felt any sort of threats might come from big energy players one could play ppossum i.e. claim a less imposing COP something close to say a beano and them once established unleash the cop of 200.

        Its a thought. Just speculation.

      • clovis

        hi, pete

    • Roger Bird

      I am an LENR-on-steroids believer. This is more of Rossi’s hot air. What substantiation do we have of any of this?

      • Miles

        Each to their own. It would be pretty hard to fake something like this considering the recent conference, the various people & the academics involved globally don’t you think?

      • Ivan_Cev

        I found interesting that Rossi E-cat COP had values of 200, 30, 6, 2, …so were this series will converge to?

        • Sanjeev

          The real COP is infinite actually. The electrical input is for controlling the heat precisely. It can be set at any COP, if it runs stable at that value. It clearly does not at this time, so you will see some particular values depending on the setup.

          An Ecat feeding itself via a heat-electric-heat loop will be an ideal case, but the control system will be very costly.

        • mcloki

          You’re boring us.

  • Andrew Macleod

    Yes the 3rd party validation testing means nothing without 3rd party validation…..

    • For people like Bruno even a 23rd party validation is not evidence enough…

      • Pachu

        Its more a common sense issue, you can talk as long you balance the talk with real stuff, in Rossi’s case its way unbalanced, a lot of says with no real stuff.

        Im not saying its is because i really dont know, but its certainly a scam behavior.

      • GreenWin

        It’s certainly trollish behavior:)

        • We seem to have several such embedded here at the moment, all being careful, but the repetition and persistent negativity give them away.

  • Bill Colias

    Why safety certification “required”? Who are they and what is their jurisdiction in all this? It seems to me that there is nothing to stop Rossi from selling his eCat system to a country that doesn’t require such certification. I’m sure many of those countries would love an eCat with a COP of 200.

    • Andre Blum

      Rossi has said he takes certification seriously, and will not sell without certification even in countries that have no such rules in place. Also, there are liability issues.

    • Sanjeev

      Just one mishap and Ecat will be declared a nuclear threat to the “nation”. All production will stop and tech will be seized forever. Rossi will spend rest of his life fighting court cases (at best).

      Clearly, by going through a “legal” route he is trying to minimize the risks. Certificates and clearances will take time, but its good for all.

      Of course the nation means pockets of rich and powerful, so I had to put it in quotes. Just see what happened to Assange.

      • clovis

        hi guys.
        We just might need Mr.Assange help if necessary, but hope it won’t come to that, it will still be hard to stop the whole world from development of this tech. the cat is out of the bag so to speak.

      • GreenWin

        Fortunately, AR is working with some pretty big “players” in the “nation” Sanjeev. It helps to have Navy, NASA, DARPA, etc. on your team when certifying new technology.

        • Adam Lepczak

          Knowing history of Dr. Rossi and how he got framed with Petroldragon, I am not surprised by his secrecy and obsession with IP and certifications…

          • Stephen

            Do you mean he’s a victim? and what about the magic thermoelectric generators?… These do not seem to be rational explanations to the whole story… at best to me they seem to rather fit in an “I want to believe” sort of thinking… Be careful because you will always find a good excuse for anything, if you really want to. It’s unlikely all this will bring you any closer to truth though…

          • GreenWin

            Lots of new energy innovations have been sidelined by various mishaps. The Patterson Power Cell is one good example that received lots of publicity but fell apart mysteriously.

            One need only read Eugene Mallove’s disclosure on the corruption at MIT following P&F to get a sense of it.

          • clovis

            Hey Green
            Very true, and what a shame.
            But when it all shakes out there will be a time to give credit where credit is due.

          • Ash

            Nothing mysterious about the Patterson Power Cell. It allegedly worked fine in demo’s but CETI could never manufacture a product, despite years of effort and millions of dollars of investors money. I don’t believe there were ever any third party replications either.

          • Stephen

            I get a sense out of all this, but it’s most probably different to yours.

            As for the serial failures of AR in the past… to me they don’t smell of conjecture against him at all. It’s a completely different smell…

          • Stephen



            is the only reason why I keep on trying to believe there is something real coming out of all this LENR stuff. So I recognize I am an “I want to believe” guy too 🙂 Honestly, sometimes it’s real hard to believe… I don’t see conspiracies… often I rather see self-deluded/dishonest/crazy “inventors”…

          • Ivan_cev

            Wait a minute, you need to read George H. Miley, He said Patterson eventually run out of the original batch, and could not replicate them. this goes in tune with the theory of Storms that the defects in the Material cause the NAE. But Patterson did not know that was early days!!!

          • GreenWin

            It is so much easier to blame all new energy fails on crazy, self-deluded inventors. Which condemns thousands of deluded physicists who have been chasing hot fusion for the past 60 years at a cost of $250B.

            And then you read this about Patterson:

            “A 1-kilowatt cold fusion reactor was demonstrated at the Power-Gen ’95 Americas power industry trade show in Anaheim (December 5-7, 1995) by Clean Energy Technologies, Inc. (CETI), of Dallas Texas.”


            Somehow the self-deluded, “dishonest” guys seem more competent than the hotfusionist sheeple.

        • I for one am grateful that US civil and military agencies are supporting the development of LENR. Any extent to which we deploy LENR ahead of our trade competitors means an edge for us in creating jobs and even creating a new economic boom. I think it was Nostradamus that predicted a Golden Age of prosperity ahead, and it certainly can be realized with a free (or nearly free) new form of useful energy.

  • GreenWin

    It is interesting to follow the hot cat design changes and the subtle, but growing indications of transition on the way. The DOD recently put on a webinar on energy innovation. Though no direct mention of LENR took place – its absence confirms its classification. The slideshow accompanying the webinar includes a section from Siemens AG government sales (slides 16-20.)

    Slide 20 includes a visual diorama of future energy distribution including all-important micro-grids. The fact these non-centralized distributed power schemes have entered mainstream – is good news for LENR. A micro-grid could initially be powered by a <5MW e-cat. Or it could simply link a neighborhood of home e-cats, providing backup power and community sourcing for schools, NGOs, clinics etc.

    As energy transitions from centralized to distributed resources, these micro-grids will play an increasing role. And DOD likes the idea since distributed power is FAR more secure than targetable central resources.

  • Pretender

    Some whistleblower must talked recently about fenomenal Rossi success, because markets not waiting to GeorgeHants mumble, markets crashed WTI and Brent oil prices recently 5 USD down during minute (at top speed 1 USD/per 10 seconds)

    • AstralProjectee

      I don’t believe that many people actually know about it and believe it enough to influence the markets yet.

      • daniel maris

        V. unlikely it’s affecting the markets. But if we ever see definitive proof of a good marketable device – it could sink the markets within 24 hours. People will “know it when they see it”.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          It would take a lot longer than 24 hours. The press is not free and for the masters of the press to accede surrender, they would have to believe beyond a shadow of doubt. The masters of the press would have to know that their gravy train had been derailed.

          “There is no such thing, at this stage of the world’s history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my papers, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.”
          John Swinton, speech in New York City (1880)

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            The exception would be when the ‘master’ has bought into the E-Cat, then of course the press report would be devastating to ‘old energy’.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            I would expect that LENR is already a conspicuous blip on the ‘masters’ radar. They are waiting for the most opportune time…just before successful commercialization.

          • I confirm.
            Stealth mode.
            Incumbent wait to block.
            Some big non-energy challenger prepare to get through quickly using smart strategy exploiting early adopters, community and startups.
            Startup and labs do more that what they say.
            We prepare too.

            Stay tuned on Radio London.

            For now it is Operation Fortitude.

            Probably Overlord will be not so organized, but will look more like a gold rush or a revolution. It will be later that what we imagine… as usual.

          • The American Reporter, which was the very first online daily news publication, is certainly independent, and certainly does publish honest opinions. That’s why we’re so broke!

        • Omega Z


          If the E-cat came out today, It would cause a temporary fluctuation. Next week things would be back to status quo. The numbers of e-cats needed to replace the present energy system are that astronomical.

          But what it would do is create some optimism for the future.

    • MaxS

      the report is nonsense. Look at the chart of brent or WTI crude oil.
      Since June oil has actually been soaring, just for a few weeks it is more or less flat. Technical reactions at best.
      The impact from Rossi and his peers is absolutely zero.
      The only thing that may impact oil significantly would be an attack on Iran. But in that event it would rise, not fall. In fact this is much more likely than any impact from an e-cat launch

  • Telecommuter

    What’s missing from this picture?

    If fine tuning measurement techniques is critical to demonstrating there is excess energy being created, the amount of excess energy must be, at most, a small % of the input energy. => No way the system is producing a lot of energy. Sorry.

    • Your apology is unnecessary. ‘Fine tuning’ the measurement systems used is not important. Using the correct measuring system is, especially if the system used apparently doubles the actual power input measured, as Rossi says was the case with the Swedes.

  • zero

    You tell a hacker that they’ve been locked out of a computer, and he’ll just laugh. You tell an engineer that they have a Ferrari with a ‘safety’ put on the accelerator, and they’ll fix the problem.

    Do what ever it takes to get it to the market. We’ll take care of the rest.

  • Ingo Heinscher

    I am bothered by the safety certifications that impose a limitation on a self-sustained hotcat. Self-sustainability will be the only thing that makes it blatantly obvious just what exactly this is, too obvious to ignore. Without self-sustained power generation, however, people will continue to claim that it’s a scam.

    • I think that the notion of self sustain, is working in “critical” state like todays nuclear reactor.
      Today a nuclear reactor is something that is nuclear and is hard to control, that can runaway…

      For subcritical devices, regulation is easier.
      For self-sustain=critical LENr reacto ther shoul be a backlog of data to justify that regulation will be softer, because it cannot explode.

      note that it is different from infinite COP, since you can implement infinite COP with simply an electric generator plugged on the heat output, that feed back the reactor with electricity…

    • Bob

      I agree. It seems ridiculous to think ecat will not be safe unless the internal heating elements are powered only by the external grid. Ecat should care less where power comes from, so why not just tap some of ecat’s heat to run a generator for that purpose. A circuit breaker will work just as well should it detect an overheated condition, and shut off power to the internal resistors no matter what the source of power. Rossi’s demonstrations of ecat would certainly be enhanced if the whole system was self contained and running continuously for many months.

      I also agree with comments by Nixter in the “Featured Comment” to the right. If Mr. Rossi truly is more interested in getting his products to market rather than proving it to the scientific world, and the certification process seems to be getting in the way, there is a way around that process! Simply put the unit together as a do-it-yourself kit and put it on the market. That places the blame for things going wrong onto the individual experimentor/builder. Just as airplanes can be built by home builders (here in the USA) very cheaply, bypassing the very expensive airworthiness certification process a manufacturing company is subjected to, the ecat could be placed on the market almost instantly. Yes, Mr. Rossi, continue down your present path to market, but if the certification process becomes a roadblock, think about the DIY kit route!