'A Wonderful Work' [Updated]

Andrea Rossi seems especially happy in his latest post on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

Dear Readers:
We are making in Miami a wonderful work. We are raching tremendous results with the High temperature reactors. We will give the results as soon as possible, but I, honestly, think we are working well. The measurements are taken by the peer reviewers of the formers Testers. The results are the same, but we made substantial improvenents. We have been able to eliminate the internal cylinder without melting the reactor, so now the measurements are easier. We have the electric power, this is the truth.
Andrea Rossi, from Miami, Florida, USA.

Andrea Rossi obviously loves to talk about his work — it is something that he is totally consumed in, something he has dedicated his life to, and he seems to want to share good news about it through posts such as this. On the other hand, he also very tight-lipped about those things which he considers confidential — the trade secrets, and the inner operations of his business, and his associations with external parties. As he has said many times, he likes to work in peace.

With the stakes being so high — huge changes in the world of energy production if the promise of the E-Cat can be realized — many people are intensely curious about Rossi and his work, but it can be obviously frustrating for many who just want to see the technology in action. So there is tension and suspense in the current situation and I don’t think we have any choice but to wait and see how all this plays out. Personally, I am glad to hear updates such as the one above. Rossi could choose to be as silent as the grave about all he is involved in, and we would be in the dark.

So my philosophy is to take all the information we can get, evaluate it carefully, use good judgment and continue to monitor the situation. The news seems encouraging, and I look forward to a resolution of all this sometime down the road.

[UPDATE] I asked Rossi on his JONP site what he meant when he said “We have the electric power”, and he responded:

Dear Frank Acland:
I meant that we are very close to make a plant able to make electric power, because the high temperature prototype is going extremely well.
So far…
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • AstralProjectee

    Wow Frank I never thought I would see you make a post at this time of the night.

    And of course great news from Rossi. Sounds like he is really making progress. I think the anticipation will be well worth it in the end.

    Peace.

    • Barry

      I think Frank is still on England time.

      • admin

        No, Barry, sometimes the quietest time to work is in the middle of the night!

        • Fibber McGourlick

          I think he means the hot ecat will run a turbine and generate electricity. Sounds wonderful! How can such a breakthrough escape notice by the world? Where are the leaks? Where is the vaunted media?

          • LilyLover

            The job of the media is to contain any important news until it can no longer be be hidden; and then flood it as if they were the ones bringing it forward.
            The job of the media is to constantly flood our minds with frivolous news so that we stay engulfed in irrelevant news/thoughts.

            New Journalism 101

          • GreenWin

            This apparently does not apply to Justin Bieber or the Kardashians. New Journalism 101.2

          • LilyLover

            Later half covers it! 🙂

          • GreenWin

            Right. Missed it.

  • When AR says “The measurements are taken by the peer reviewers of the formers Testers” does he mean the Bologna University group? If so, has anyone accepted that they are “peer reviewers” in the mainstream sense?

    • Timar

      I don’t think that anything is known about the testers. So far this is just another “Rossi said”…

      • captain

        May I help U in suggesting to post here http://ecatnews.com/ where to get more satisfaction?
        Surely U’ll feel more comfortable there , just to start well your ‘job’ 😉

      • Redford

        Yes, nothing is known, but their name, resume, and who they’re working for. Oh wait. All is known actually, sorry, my bad.

      • RGCheek

        You would have done better had you stopped at your first three words.

    • Ash

      Rossi said these tests are in Miami, which is a first I believe. Nobody knows exactly where his lab is in Miami, because the Leonardo Corp address is a condo. Skeptics would say it doesn’t exist,which is what Rossi told the Florida bureau of radiation control.

      Also, University of Bologna said in writing last month that they are not involved with any Rossi testing.

      • GreenWin

        This all sounds so rational, we all should probably invest in ash.

        • Ivan_cev

          There is another possibility.
          He has finally paid his bill and now have electricity for his condo.

  • captain

    Admin, thank U for your judicious comment to Rossi’s message!

  • Lemuel

    In a short space of time we have incredible/credible news coming out of Camps Defkalion, Hydrotron, Celani, and Brillouin.
    The U.S grants an LENR patent to George Miley.
    Rossi declares (from Miami) “We have the electric power”
    The race is on, folks.

  • AstralProjectee

    If he has electric power he should be able to loop it and create an infinite COP. I know the certifiers don’t want to do that. I think once Rossi’s device is in use for a while without problems they will allow a infinite COP to be certified. Then again I don’t think the certifiers have a really good reason for not having an E-cat with an infinite COP. Who are they to say this can’t be safely done? Rossi seems very cautious. It does not sound like that big of an issue to me. Anybody have thoughts on that?

    I want to be energy independent ASAP.

    Peace.

    • I’m not sure certifier refuse electric looping.
      what will make a nuclear reactor is a reactor that is in “self-sustain” mode (critical, like fission reactor today).

      This idea is from an italian regulation bill I’ve read somewhere, and that italian bill came probably from EU regulation as usual.

      a subcritical reactor (finite COP of the reactor itself) fed partially by his own current, should be accepted.

    • Miles

      “We have the electric power, this is the truth” – No turning back now. People will hold this to his words.

      “evaluate it carefully” – Which is what Rossi has been doing all along!!!

      “We will give the results as soon as possible” – I’m expecting an announcement of the results in 2012. Take a seat folks, the show has just begun.

      • tectak

        Yes. There is just the remote possibility that the hoax is the hoax and the scam is the scam. I do not believe that LNER exists in anything but the wistfull imaginings of those who claim it to be true BUT I would hope that it was so rather than not so.
        For Rossi to so obviously contradict himself, fail in his predictions, come up with ever more fantastic “truths” there MUST be some strong motivation.
        I suggest that he is diverting us ALL until he has a product ready for the market place. This is subterfuge on an enormous scale but it may be necessary to permit him to carry off the energy coup of the millenia in relative secrecy. I hope he is that clever. I KNOW that most of us ( me too) are stupid enough to let him fool us in this way. I suggest we let him have the whole rope and let him hang or hoist. Either way, I will loose no sleep on it.
        I am over 60 and don’t think that even if he produced a 25Kw device for $10 the size of a toaster in blue and white that ran for 50 years on a helium balloon and a nickel-in-a-slot would I see it being available in my lifetime. Why? Because once the oil industry is threatened to extinction you will be AMAZED by how much oil we will suddenly find is available. Oil is not just a fuel it is a lubricant. Stop the flow and the global engine will seize up in less than 1000 rotations.
        tectak

        • Jim Johnson

          @tectac: “I do not believe that LNER exists in anything but the wistfull imaginings of those who claim it to be true BUT I would hope that it was so rather than not so.”

          So, haven’t looked into it very far, huhn?

          I’ll pass on jibes about the spelling…

        • RGCheek

          Lol, so now the skeptopathic response is not ‘It doesnt work!’ but, ‘Big Oil will kill it anyway!’

          Well, at least that is progress of some sort.

          ‘There is none so blind as those who refuse to see.’

          • tectak

            Huhn?

          • GreenWin

            Is that a German crack?

          • tectak

            No idea. It a Jimjohansenism. Or a spelling mistake.

        • Gerrit

          @tectak, I would really like to understand you.

          Could you explain why you think that LENR doesn’t exist, but without referring to Rossi or his Ecat.

          Maybe you can explain your viewpoint “LENR doesn’t exist” by mentioning the scientific work from: Celani, Focardi, Piantelli, De Ninno, Scaramuzzi, Violante, Preparata, McKubre, Hagelstein, Miley, Kim, Duncan, Beaudette, Kowalski, Swartz, Oriani, Storms, Mosier-Boss, Szpak, Nagel, Miles, Melich, Hubler, Arata, Mizuno, Kozima, Iwamura, Takahashi, Kitamura.

          But I would also be interested at whatever pseudoskeptic reply you come up with.

          Cheers.

          • tectak

            To gerrit
            I am not a skeptic and so by definition I am not a pseudo-skeptic. I am, though, a realist. If LENR exists at all it must be seen, proven, demonstrated and from a pragmatic viewpoint…it must be viable and useful. It may well be the case that at some level, Bose-Einstein Condensate lurches into view, some miniscule effects can be pounced upon as the equivalent of finding the Holy Grail…..which you may or may not choose to believe in depending upon how much value you place on You Tube and/or Wiki for your beliefs but without that final (even) fleeting dimension necessary for something to exist….duration…I simply cannot devote my soul to wishes and self-delusion. That is me. You are you and you can believe whatever you wish to believe. You can even believe what others wish you to believe. I cannot. Sorry.

          • Gerrit

            Fair enough. Based on available scientific evidence I know that an anomalous heat effect has been proved to exist beyond reasonable doubt. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less.

            I don’t know what this effect might be or how it works. Whether it is controllable or exploitable and will lead to energy abundance remains to be seen, but until I know for sure, I certainly believe that it has that potential.

          • tectak

            To gerrit.
            A noble response. I hear from UFO believers some amazing things. The terminal question to me is …so, in spite of everything, you do not believe in UFO’s? At which point I reach into my pocket and flick a peanut through the air. What was that, they ask? Well, if it flies through the air and you don’t know what it was, it is, by definition, a UFO.
            The peanut is real, it flies through the air, observers do not know what it was. It is a UFO.
            Anomalous heat? Pass me another peanut!

          • bob

            wow, you have a great way of twisting words. You should be a preacher or a politician 🙂

          • Gerrit

            The UFO example is funny actually. Not to believe in UFOs means not to believe that somewhere in the universe, in one of those uncountable galaxies, a similar things happened like here on earth.

            Not to believe that UFOs exist per se is a religious belief devoid from reasonable thinking.

            Have those things been observed on earth ? Well I don’t know, because I haven’t reviewed the topic for myself.

            Keep flipping your nuts, it’s what you do best and it gets you excited.

          • tectak

            To gerrit,
            I am of a shade different opinion tonight having waded through a couple of Mb’s of reports and results of current projects touching on LENR or CF or Electron Exchange.
            I have decide to adopt your policy and so will no longer comment on Rossi or his ecat whilst mentioning science in the same sentence.
            Brillouin is interesting me more.
            Best,
            tectak

        • jacob

          I for one hope Low Energy Nuclear Reactions will find you in your life time,if sufficient amounts of Energy would be produced from cheaper sources like LENR,where the energy from 1 barrel of nickel equals a supertanker full of OIl,then it be uneconomical to explore for oil,so more oil could be saved and used to make plastics for the next thousand years.
          If things keep going the way we are going with high energy prices,people will burn more wood until all the forests are gone,well they are half gone anyways,less Oxygen to breath just causes more diseases.

          If we should stand up for anything at all,and it doesn’t matter if one is over 60,we can still leave something better for our children and their children,so I suggest to learn much more about the subject and make a difference.

          • tectak

            I appear to have elicted the basketcase response. Two things. Concern for my emotional well being is unnecessary. I can live comfortably with or without LENR and so it is not going to push me over the edge if it all proves (proves) to be nonsense. I still have my Steorn Orbo to comfort me.
            Secondly, to make assumptions regarding my knowledge…or knowledge source..on the subject of LENR whilst expected in this forum, from some, is to perpetuate the myth that ANY of us KNOW what we are talking about.. The whole Rossi extravaganza is a constant reminder that when many who know nothing get together to determine something, anything, the one with the biggest dogma wins through.
            This is the great failing of the mass I Q.
            Oh, how I hope that one day cold fusion will be a reality ……how I dream that aliens will one day cross the massive void to our speck on spec and take me uo to interfre with my bowels

          • jacob

            tectak,the mass IQ is induced by the teaching of curriculums to bring all earthlings up to speed,of what,so we are equally intelligent? and can have same view of reality with anyone of planet earth,but then someone comes along with a different view, and he is automatically outcast by us all.
            Then the dolphin comes to earth in 1943 ,just suddenly appears from a blue planet in the Sirius star system,and we have not been told the truth about our own origin,which is the planet LYRA also in that same system,each ethnic group most likely has different origins from within our galaxy.
            Keep in mind our civilization presumably about 12000 years of history,sunken Atlantis lays 3 miles below the Atlantic ocean basin,between Bermuda and Portugal,complete with underwater pyramids and paved roads still intact,forgotten? Their origin the planet Atlan,also in the Sirius system,and were experts on anti gravity,the remnants of them ,the Egyptians ,still used high technology to built the pyramids and moved 120 ton foundation stones in lebanon cut with laser technology back thousands of years ago ,now our civilization is making a tremendous comeback after just 12000 years of finding ourselves,ready to blow ourselves up again,just like the ancient atlantians which sank in to it own liquid bed of lava that was induced by a fierce weapon,in a war with the greek ancestry ,the Athenians ,called liquid light,now us the remnants of all 5 former civilizations on planet earth ,us being the sixth,are destined for self destruction once more,them the remnants of the sixth will out law war and prosper with free energy ,just like the rest of inhabited planets,where love and utopia is the objective.

            I guess we have to learn from our own mistakes,to mature our spirits .

    • Filip47

      We will be able to loop it ourselfs. It’s not rocket science.

      • Lars B

        But could somebody please help him
        measure the input and output energy!

        When the last test witnessed by third parties, the hot-cat test, showed that he had used inferior instrumentation I lost faith…

        To not take in to account the fact that the input current is
        not sinusoidal is such a big mistake that it is beyond any reasonable unintentional error. (Lots of negations in that sentence)

        If you are about to invent a new energy source, what could be more important than to measure its performance?

        Step 1 : Make sure the measurements you perform are accurate
        Step 2 : Optimize your new energy source
        Step 3 : Sell it

        Does performing the steps in reverse make sense (to an honest person)?

        • Andrew Macleod

          The mesurment errors are not Rossis fault. As a matter of fact Rossi informed them of their errors and told them how to correct it.

          • Ivan_Cev

            Stop the fanaticism. So why Rossi changed to variac and changed the instruments?

        • May not make sense, but it would be typical frontline research. They call it bleeding edge for a reason. (Speaking generally, not claiming specifically.)

        • tectak

          Rossi is disengenuous over his unbridled joy at the electrical output of the ecat. An inside source advises me that a bi-product of the process is endless spaghetti (Infinite COP) and that an anouncement will be made soon indicating that a method has been found to limit the length to 250cms, each strand, so making the ecat suitable for domestic consumption. Certification is expected within weeks once a way to turn it off can be found. At the moment the certifiers are not permitting the burning of the excess spaghetti as a a primary self-looping start up heat source as there is a danger of system safety failure which could result in catastrophic spaghetti runaway production. Watch this space.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Are you trying to be funny or are you mocking? One word sums up your post, fail.

          • tectak

            In order to help you out…I was trying to be funny.
            Look….it doesn’t REALLY make spaghetti…it was a joke. I really had no idea that ANYONE would take it seriously……but there again….
            tectak

          • Jim Johnson

            @tektac: Your post may not get the reaction you might be looking for. For instance, you might be mistaken for a troll.

          • tectak

            No Jim,
            I am not trolling. There needs to be some sense of the ridiculous in all of this in order that we can seperate out the science. If we all believe without proof or thought we are victims. Whatever Rossi has or does not have is only an issue as long as we talk about it. My background is electronics. I have lived through a great period of discovery and promises beyond my contemporaneous imaginings. Always, though, the science came with the package. Though no one understands quantum physics we have used what we believe to be its truths to develop products which could never even be described fifty years ago.There has never been a leap in scientific knowledge to equal that of the quantum “theory”, and that is what it is. A theory…..but thus far it WORKS according to the KNOWN facts.
            Every now and then along comes some dope with a kitchen table and a magnet and an endless supply of blu-tack and selloptape to try to prove he has discovered over-unity or perpetual motion or anti-gravity or water-powered cars….one day, just once, along with the bluster, bluff and baloney someone will step up with an “answer” AND the science to back it up. It may be new science but it will be REAL science.
            I am afraid that on the presented surface, it is not Rossi. I wish him well. He may have something. He may blow it by not understanding it. He may be deluded. He may be a charlatan, a dillettante, a scammer.
            I really do not care. What will be….will be. But I tell you this….if it is real, not me nor you nor any of us can change the truth of it; but if it is not real, well, there’s always the next time.
            For me to enjoy the moment, I must have proof. Without that, there is NO truth. Rossi knows this, I know it, we all know it. For those who are believers, truth is not a commodity of any importance….that is what belief is all about. Last night I changed wine into water, tomorrow I will do it again…believe me.
            Tectak

          • captain

            Instead of so many words, why don’y U buy an 1MW Rossi’s thermal plant?
            Because U don’t have the money?

          • Steve B

            you keep repeating the same pointless argument. Better think about this : There are corporations who have money. Why is there not a single real customer who can give a testimonial about using the e-cat in operation ? Not even one.
            And how can Rossi sell e-cats without certification ?

          • GreenWin

            Tectak, today is Tuesday in the West. No miracles today??

          • Ged

            Actually, changing wine into water isn’t too difficult. Just have to distill away the alcohol from the water, and strain out the phytochemicals left over from the wine (like resveratrol), and you’re good.

            Hot fusion energy production should be completely possible under our current theories. Yet every attempt experimentally has failed to yield more energy than goes in. The theories of hot fusion are incomplete and flawed, so much so that we cannot make it a power source even after decades of time and billions of dollars worth of trying.

            Theory isn’t always correct. Empirical experiments always trump. Rossi (and also others) has provided some proofs indeed, but they are incomplete and not all questions are yet answered. We will have to see!

          • tectak

            To ged
            Shhheesh! And there was I just drinking wine and pissing water.I had no idea of the process involved.Is this process patented, certificated, CE marked, protected or just plain piss-taking. Answers to anyone but me.

          • GreenWin

            Ged, the big mistake made by tokamak ITER mag-confinement guys is… they don’t have a box to put their plasma in. That won’t burn up or be destroyed by neutron damage.

            The ignition guys are like old-time brute force computing – “Captain, 500 terraW! It’s all the power we got!” In perspective, the annual planetary energy consumption is just 12.5 tW. Yikes.

          • jacob

            tectak,interesting,you say you don’t care,and you appear to know everything already ,you have blocked out anything that messes with your current reality,but you simply don’t have a clue at all about the truth about who controls the energy monopoly on earth,and I find it plausible that you are involved judging from your own responses,maybe keeping your head in the sand at this time,would be the best way to stay in your current illusion ,or should I call it your uncaring reality.

            just my opinion.

          • zvibenyosef

            I believe Rossi is genuinely excited about his work, who wouldn’t be after working so hard and long at an important project and finally realizing your dreams?

          • KenLebrun

            I’m ecstatic at the fact that you went all out on this post. It leaves no doubt any more for forum readers that your comments may not be taken seriously….period. Thanks for not going the route of pointing fingers at forum members and saying they are paid supporters of Rossi. You just put the gun in your mouth and pulled the trigger. At least we know now that while you have quite an imagination, your childish mind will never yield anything beneficial to mankind. Well maybe that was harsh. You might write some funny satire novel thats good for a laugh, but you get what i mean. Don’t waste forum space with rubbish, be constructive.

        • clovis

          come on,Lars b.
          haven’t you heard anything that’s going on here,
          CLOSE MOUTH OPEN EYES AND EARS ,THE 3 PARTY CONFIRMATION IS GOING ON AS WE WRITE . HE HAS TWO OF THE WORLDS BEST COMPANY, MEASURING HIS MACHINE. , STEIANENS, AND NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS.

          • GreenWin

            STEIANENS??

          • Lars B

            Ohh you see I have been listening. Since jauary 2011. Third party confirmation has been promised repeatedly
            Bologna will test it, Uppsala will test it….Soon.. Just wait..
            I have never heard of STEIANENS but National Instruments makes good instruments. That’s their business.
            What is needed is third-party testing by TUV, SP,etc .
            And, Clovis, There seems to be a problem with your keyboard caps lock seems to be stuck.. I recommend Logitech.

          • clovis

            hi, guys.
            cap lock , well i blame it on Dr. Rossie, he started it.
            it’s kinda fun, I am a person when i want attention i speak loudly, just figured caps would suggest volume–smile.
            LOL, no guys it’s just a compilation when you use one finger to type, smart phones and the like, not for all but some, occasionally won’t
            look up, and when they do you have already typed a full sentence, to much trouble to go back, so as long as the thought is transferred, is all that counts anyway,

            it, the best i can do– or wants to do, sorry.

    • Sanjeev

      This is the first time he has said that he has electric power. Very important comment indeed.

      Infinite COP with any LENR tech will be safe, because there is a temperature limit due to melting of Ni. I guess the certifiers do not have any guidelines to certify any infinite cop machine, it has never been done in human history 🙂

      Sooner or later one of the countries will grant such clearance, and that will be the start of the end of energy and food shortage.

  • Gerrit

    Rossi speak: “…so now the measurements are easier. We have the electric power, this is the truth.”

    could that mean: “We have now confirmed that the previous measurements of the electric power (that the reactor consumes) were correct. ie, this is the truth”

    instead we jump to the idea that suddenly the reaction produces electrical power. As far as I understand that was still a long way down the road last week.

    what do you think ?

    • Marius

      or “We now have the power to make electricity (self sustaining)”

      • Renzo

        I agree with Marius, Rossi means that electricity production is now feasible

    • Maks

      i think if it was a generation of heat and electricity and not conversion heat to electricity we would have heard something like that: “Breakhtrough! Revolution!Mankind is saved!” and so on 🙂
      (i am not a skeptiс about all this tech.)

    • timycelyn

      This tantalising expression from Rossi may mean so many different things. Excited Italian writing in English with which he has some difficulty.

      He may mean any of the following. I have arranged them in my view of the order of liklihood:

      1. They now have stable enough performance and temperature from the hot cat that it will be easy to generate the right quality of steam to spin up a Siemens turbine.

      2. He has the hot cat built into a boiler of some sort and can now produce the right sort of steam to spin a turbine.

      3. He has a hot cat boiler coupled up to a turbine and has spun it up and made electricity

      4. He has found a way to get electricity directly from the hot cat.

      To be honest I’m 99% certain it isn’t 4.

      Cheers

      Tim

      • captain

        Dunno if 4. however a tremendous quantity of heat to have hot dry steam to drive turbines and generate electricity.
        This is the more traditional and simple way to get electricity.

      • or:
        5. They have the electric power input correctly measured.

    • tectak

      He means that they now “have the power” measurements and they know that the measurements are reliable. They have achieved this by nipping down the road to Maplins and buying a digital/analogue clamp-meter, expensive at $22 but a necessary piece of equipment at this high-end physics.
      We can now wait for truly accurate data.
      Oh….battery not supplied….bugger. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
      tectak

      • Pachu

        http://www.sciencemag.org/content/337/6101/1444

        The National Ignition Facility (NIF), a $3.5 billion laser fusion lab in California, looks certain to miss its deadline at the end of this month for achieving ignition, a self-sustaining fusion reaction that yields more energy than was put in to make it happen

        • Pachu

          On July 5, NIF delivered peak power of 500 tW to a target for the first time in a 1.85 MJ pulse. From outside, it looked like NIF should be closing in on ignition.

          But now NIF has become the latest in a long list of fusion lasers that yielded experimental results well short of predictions. A news story in the September 21 issue of Science magazine reports that although computer models predict NIF shots should achieve ignition, the yield of fusion energy from NIF experiments has so far reached only 0.1 of the ignition level.

          From: http://www.laserfocusworld.com/blogs/spectralbytes/2012/09/nif-falls-short-of-ignition.html

          • vbasic

            It’s hubris on the part of the physicists, to believe they can create and control the temperatures and pressures of the sun here on earth. The irony is that the ‘pressures’ they are seeking is in the condensed matter of metals created in the hearts of supernovas. There they are, the elements above iron. Cobalt, Nickel…..The LENR scientists have it correct. The best place to create compression is where the compression already is.

          • Mop

            There is the H-bomb replicating the power of the sun here on Earth. I think you can instead argue the opposite, the LENR stuff always struck me as hubris. Why would there be no example observed in nature if LENR would be possible? I think this train of thought is what caused no one to seriously experiment with LENR until now.

        • Ged

          Another -extremely expensive- hot fusion experiment that is failing? How am I not surprised. Hopefully it’ll at least start to yield insights into why we are completely incapable of hot fusion despite all current theory saying otherwise.

          • EduardoRG

            I think that those multi billion Hot Fusion programs “aimed” to create a “whole new energy source” are really aimed to create a “whole new energy weapon”. After so many BILLIONS dollars they have not been able to create at least more energy that they consume. Total Fail. Calani have done more than them with some few dollars (Proved !!!) and Rossi is about to put them in the ground (when his product is released). Come on US tax payers !!! look where your money is going !!!

          • Pachu

            Eduardo says: “are really aimed to create a whole new energy weapon” –

            Thats in fact true and public, the NIF has primary goals of military sense, to make more acceptable his funding was added the energy research goals.

          • GreenWin

            I think we are at a critical phase in power structures on Earth. One where the giant military industrial complex can make a pivotal turn away from traditional weapons to a new form of defense. That is non-aggressive defense. The utilization of technology to develop olive branch hardware that is pro-ductive rather than de-structive. Sounds absurd to many. But as our understanding of universal consciousness grows we recognize there is little point in destructive technology. And great gains to be had from constructive works, like LENR.

            If fact were the world’s military leaders to completely grasp the power available to those with benevolent agendas – they would be singing a different tune. Some, to their great credit, already are.

            Congratulations Ing. Rossi. Do not slow for a minute as the wave of enlightenment grows.

          • Sanjeev

            There is already a fusion weapon – the H-bomb. Do they need more ?

            The hot fusion energy has failed to light even an LED. Still the funds, billions of it are being poured there. There must be some intention or pure old corruption.

            We see it in many projects, not only HF, a highway is built for a billion, then another billion to repair it, then another to extend it, etc etc. The highway becomes a sink hole for public money not because it needs that much money, but someone there is corrupt.

            Imagine if billions were thrown at other ‘proven’ techs like solar cells.

          • Omega Z

            The Big Push for Hot Fusion came when the Cold War Ended.

            This brought about a Large reduction in Nuclear Weapons & the need to build bigger better Nuclear weapons.

            Your now faced with several thousand people trained & educated to build & Maintain Nuclear Weapons both East & West. Out of work.

            What To Do, What To Do??? Some of these people may be enticed to work for less stable Countries. To build Nuclear programs/weapons for them. Nuclear Proliferation must be kept in Check. At the very least minimized.

            What you Do is start spending Billions on what was a small Hot Fusion Project to provide these people with the Prestige & Jobs their accustomed to. To minimize the chance that some of them may go Rogue.

            This was all agreed to by the Nuclear Powers. East & West. It was already known that the World was at least a century away from the technology to develop Hot Fusion. It was always about Keeping these people occupied/Employed. All financed by the Major Economic powers.

        • Andrew Macleod

          Hot fusionists main problem is they are trying to recreate how “they” think the sun works, based of theories that are built apon other theories. Someone needs to tell them to look at the elephant in the corner (cold fusion and others) that are contradicting our current understanding. Hot fusion hold great promise and right now that is all it is, a promise.

    • Peter_Roe

      Looking at the context, I think I agree with Gerrit’s suggestion, i.e., Rossi may just have meant by “We have the electric power, this is the truth” that they can now measure the input power accurately, and that the new measurements confirm the original data.

      This would tie in with the idea that the initial test is now being verified by another (hopefully independent) party, with a view to publishing the data:- “The measurements are taken by the peer reviewers of the formers Testers”.

    • Ged

      From the update, it seems indeed he means the feasibility of making electricity from the hot cat.

      He’s already talked about the input power being correct all along, several times, so that wouldn’t be anything new.

  • PeterWol

    Regarding safety issues if an E-cat is self-sustaining, we have one, rather drastic security feature already, the melting of the nickel. One could imagine others, coming in at a lower temperature. For example, a small container of pressurized gas (argon, nitrogen, or just air?) with a seal made of an alloy with a low-temperature melting point, perhaps 600°C. An e-cat running out of control would have its hydrogen purged, through an over-pressure relief valve which seems to be a standard fitting, and of course the release of the gas would have a strong cooling effect. I am sure many more schemes could be invented.
    Of course, it will be better to be able to control the power output, and I have some ideas about that, but for the present will keep them to myself.
    PeterWol.

    • I don’t think there is enough hydrogen gas in the reactor to cause a substantial temperature drop upon venting. It would go psssst for a very brief period not whooosh for a long time. A separate tank of pressurized gas like carbon-dioxide would be needed to safely accomplish much.

      • Ged

        On the other hand, venting the hydrogen should slow and stop the reaction — eventually. It just depends on how much hydrogen the metal has absorbed (i.e. Celani’s device works for 3+ days off of metal stored hydrogen).

        CO2 may be too big to help push out any hydrogen in the metal lattice, but it would cool things down below reaction threshold, as you say, so that’s a great idea. Could also use helium; that may give the most rapid emergency shutdown, if using a gas based method.

        • clovis

          HI, Ged.
          Very clear conclusion, so many possibility just hope that no one finds the part that could cause destruction.
          So for only good things are foreseen.
          We must keep a vigilant eye on it to be sure nothing bad can come from it.

  • Ivan_cev

    And the Rossi fans will dance and party full of joy.
    “I believe when I see the quality of the reports”

    • Robyn

      Ivan_cev, I always enjoy your skepticism.

      Though I do think LENR is real, and being successfully demonstrated in many places around the world (and I think Rossi is credible), it is really important to have people be forced to prove it, and prove it, and prove it again.

      And since, as of today, it is not clear if anyone has definitively proved it once, then by all means, people with doubts should voice them.

      Until last month, I had listened to people talk of the Higgs Boson with mirth because scientists had such confidence they would find it. And well done, they did (at least they’re pretty sure.)

      So that’s kind of par for the course. Cold Fusion is not only a new set of physical laws, but machinery that must be designed, improved, and tested. I build software, and I respect that that is an imperfect process.

      I know I’m not telling you anything new, just that you should keep em coming.

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

      • Gerrit

        be careful with the phrase “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.”

        Pseudo skeptics use this phrase when they are thinking “I don’t believe you even when it’s true”

        Brian Josephson told NewScientist.com in 2006: “I call it “pathological disbelief”. The statement “even if it were true I wouldn’t believe it” seems to sum up this attitude. People have this idea that when something can’t be reproduced every time, it isn’t a real phenomenon. It is like a religious creed where you have to conform to the “correct” position. This leads to editors blocking the publication of important papers in academic journals. Even the physics preprint archive blocks some papers on certain topics, or by certain authors”

        • Jim Johnson

          “pathological disbelief”

          “It is like a religious creed where you have to conform to the “correct” position.”

          +1

          • Ivan_cev

            What about pathological-believe.

      • artefact

        “So far…
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.”

        Will he write “Hot Regards” in the future? 🙂

        • KenLebrun

          ^ like

        • hempenearth

          The tech is so cool he could write “cool regards” in future.

          • edog

            at the moment…. “Luke warm Regards” would be more fitting!

      • Ivan_cev

        I actually also believe LENR is real, Celani, Piantelly, NANOR…etc etc.
        Rossi does not seem to fit the group. He is in a different league.

    • GreenWin

      With trumpets and the sound of coronets they will make a joyful noise… But only after I speak to the assessor!

  • Jacob

    Actually such new important inventions need some time for study and improvements – I think a reliable and practical device will not be available for the market before 2-3 years from now.

  • Andrew Macleod

    I have always wondered how viable self sustain mode is, supplying it’s own heat to further the reaction, what happens when a lot of the heat energy is being used to heat water to make steam. I guess this could be balanced using flow control. Maybe self sustain mode is utilizing “heat after death” to increase COP.

  • KenLebrun

    Thanks for the update! While still optimistic and open minded…I may have had a little skeptic itch before now but i can say i’m coming around full circle. One can’t fake enthusiasm in this way. It’s obvious Rossi’s response is that of a tinkerer that while building a project that he couldn’t seem to get working; but then decides to try something a little different and boom….sparks and arcs are shooting out. Yay i have to go tell someone!

    Sounds like they redisigned the ecat and were totally surprised at the results. Can’t wait to see the reports on the new progress, if they are released.

    “Aim small….miss small”

    Ken

  • thomasp

    Offtopic, I know – emdrive.com has been updated !!! 🙂 I wish this guy be as open as rossi. And his website lacks a forum too.

    • Robert Mockan

      They need to start using high-Q cavities to increase the power/thrust ratio. With the new Doppler shift compensation to enable on-axis thrust capability it should be feasible to redesign space craft to avoid the need for chemical rocket engines at all. A LENR reactor to provide electrical power for deep space ion engines for traveling between planets and moons, and for an on-board cryostat to keep the EM Drive lift engine cavities superconducting and useful for all landings and takeoffs, makes personal space ships feasible in the foreseeable future.

      • Robert Mockan

        correction: “.. power/thrust ratio..” s/b “.. thrust/power ratio..”.

        Although that 2G shuttle design is for cargo, one can see how it could be altered for deep space with ion engines instead of hydrogen propellant engines. Not only much better fuel economy, but much higher maximum velocities could be obtained.

      • Robyn

        On August 11, Rossi made this statement:

        “AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT: THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.”

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/the-cures-effect-will-it-help-or-hinder-the-e-cat-cause/

        I recall University of Bologna releasing a letter “there is no formal relationship between the University of Bologna” and Rossi regarding the e-cat.

        Since October is next week, I am curious if anyone knows any new information on this part of the story.

        • AstralProjectee

          Good question.

        • Francesco CH

          You have to be patient because the problem raised by the Swedes has had as consequence the need to restart from scrach with measurements. So complete measurements will require more time than previously conceived.

          • Francesco CH

            CORRECTION:

            You have to be patient because the problem raised by the Swedes has had as consequence the need of restarting measurements from scratch. Hence, complete measurements will require more time than previously conceived.

    • AstralProjectee

      Interesting, never heard of emdrive but they seem like they might be really on to something.

    • Robert Mockan

      The EM drive with vertical lift supports a project I’ve been working on for a few years since the concept became public. A vertical ascent to geosynchronous orbit using ground based microwave power beaming to the vehicle, and a microwave rectifier grid on the vehicle to convert it to electric power for the lift engine, makes access to space possible using just a few kilowatts of electric power. Once in orbit conventional solar cells can be used to power the EM drive engine for transit to the moon. The trip to orbit would take days, and to the moon more days, but given the nature of the EM drive engine that is how it would work.

      The superconducting lift cavity is the essential component. Once that is designed and in the public domain literally any person will have access to space travel.

      If Rossi actually comes through with a LENR reactor for electric power, all the better to power a lunar transit vehicle. These would not be multimillion dollar machines, but costing a few thousand to implement, and about the size of a recreation vehicle. The future will be interesting.

  • GreenWin

    In case y’all haven’t seen Tom Whipple’s latest cold fusion story from the mainstream Falls Church News:

    “The disturbing aspect for many is that most [cold fusion] progress is being made outside of the purview of the scientific establishment which has yet to pronounce the whole phenomenon as valid physics.”

    “The answer, of course, to those who remain skeptical is that there are simply too many respected scientists, universities, laboratories, and corporations that have been exposed to the technology, know that heat is being produced, and are actively working to advance the field.”

    http://www.fcnp.com/commentary/national/12587-the-peak-oil-crisis-progress-on-the-cold-fusion-front.html

    Tom seems to be saying it’s gone too far to turn back now.

    • Rossi is doing an end run around the establishment. How else could he bring LENR to market when they’ve blocked this technology every step of the way?

      • GreenWin

        Indeed rossi started the run. There are now many ball carriers and the $$T market potential will only increase the numbers.

    • cx

      wow that james Hawley guy is spamming the hell out of the comments

      • Omega Z

        ex

        That James Hawley guy is spewing the same things that the Gary Wright guy was. Some so familiar it could be a cut&paste.

      • Barry

        James Hawley seems to be having quite the conversation with James Hawley.

  • AstralProjectee

    Not a lot of people talking about the update about that it just applies to his plants which would not apply to us. At least yet anyway. I thought from what he originally said that we could have electric power. Oh well. I guess it’s still good news in some way for us.

  • JC

    OT: Hawaiian inventor, Dale Basgall, has finished up his work on the design of the Universal LENR Reactor. He has designed this reactor to potentially serve multiple purposes (e.g., a teaching tool for studying thermodynamic processes, a way to heat water for tea and so forth, and fundamentally as a test-bed for studying LENR). I think this is also a clever approach to obtaining a patent. He has put together as many components as possible into the system (sonic resonance, electrostatic discharge, thermal regulation, and other components that have been reported as assisting in the LENR reaction). The best part is, that the design is meant to utilize nearly all off-the-shelf parts (other than the reactor core base plate, which requires machining to build).

    One of the notions behind this effort is to design a reactor that involves standard systems of control and measurement to facilitate LENR experiments and thus to assist in theory development and testing.

    Here is Mr. Basgall’s latest work on the reactor:
    http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2012/09/26/universal-lenr-reactor-auto-pilot-system/

  • edog
    • Ivan_cev

      July 24 last year was awarded the first U.S. patent for a device that uses the so-called cold fusion. Si tratta del Patent n° 8227020 depositato dal Prof. This is the Patent n ° 8227020 filed by Prof. George H. George H. Miley , professore emerito di fisica dell’ Università dell’Illinois . Miley

      • georgehants

        Just one of those little wonders that show reality.

        Pig saves goat who’s foot was stuck underwater at petting zoo. Simply amazing.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7WjrvG1GMk

        • Barry

          It’s good to know there are still trustworthy souls in this life. Good to see a upstanding member of society who is selfless enough to…wait, it was a pig, wasn’t it. Never mind.

  • H. Hansson

    I will wait until I get 3 party testing done on separate location., Nobel prize standards… nothing else.

  • Sanjeev
  • tectak

    I appear to have elicted the basketcase response. Two things. Concern for my emotional well being is unnecessary. I can live comfortably with or without LENR and so it is not going to push me over the edge if it all proves (proves) to be nonsense. I still have my Steorn Orbo to comfort me.
    Secondly, to make assumptions regarding my knowledge…or knowledge source..on the subject of LENR whilst expected in this forum, from some, is to perpetuate the myth that ANY of us KNOW what we are talking about.. The whole Rossi extravaganza is a constant reminder that when many who know nothing get together to determine something, anything, the one with the biggest dogma wins through.
    This is the great failing of the mass I Q.
    Oh, how I hope that one day cold fusion will be a reality ……how I dream that aliens will one day cross the massive void to our speck on spec and take me up into a flying saucer to interfere with my bowels an other vitally important investigative work leading to a better future for us all.
    But until the great day dawns I am stuck, like you, with classical physics and my induced religiosity, in the quagmire of reality. ……but apart from that, I’m just fine, thanks

    • Alexvs

      Wonderful post. I would like knowing you.

    • AstralProjectee

      I think most of us here are going off of a general assumption that most people don’t lie. This is a general statement of course. But this is generally true. We all interpret what we experience differently but in the end we don’t serial lie and make up things, especially like this. Now the question is, is Rossi a serial lier. I have not found any read flags yet. We all for the most part have good intentions even if we are delusional and out of touch with reality.

      • georgehants

        AstralProjectee, agreed that most people have an instinct to be reasonably truthful when not threatened.
        If though the situation becomes institutionalised by authority or peer pressure then history shows that all concern for the Truth is abandoned and conformity and acceptance by the mass becomes the norm.
        The psychological response of science and most scientists to the Cold Fusion situation, is an ideal case of people who’s livelihood and position are threatened, so they create a wall of disbelief that viewed from outside is clearly irrational.
        Most individuals, then fearing peer pressure and being ostracised from the group, fall into an almost stupor of closed-minded acceptance of the ruling Dogma.
        These people find themselves going to the most extreme positions to try and justify a clearly irrational position and yet time has shown again and again that they are caught in a psychological labyrinth from which escape is almost impossible.

    • Karl

      I believe that you most likely by purpose like to misunderstand the tone in this forum which follows the most outspoken project Rossi and his E-CAT including the entire CF/LENR.
      This forum is a relief, where one can honestly follow the emergence of successively more and better proofs of what’s going on the fields of CF/LENR without being reputably abused by unserious sceptics or Trolls.
      It seems to be a sport by pseudo sceptics to etiquette the majority of the people on this forum to be lame ducks of followers of dogma.
      On the contrary most of the discussion on this forum of the phenomena and the process to tame the potential energy released, is not taking anything for granted to my mind, before a clear theory is presented or working products are operating on the market. If and when something happen, it is likely the latter and the main stream science is still reluctant to give it attention which is really bad.
      There are enough discussion groups and in fact the entire main stream science group or main stream media where people can exchange sceptical ideas about CF/LENR. Your idea about the collective formed IQ fits in very well in these groups where you obviously belong.
      The devices here is more like, don’t prejudge wait and see – time will tell the truth.

    • Gerrit

      Sure you are fine. 🙂 You believe that mainstream science has good reason not to care to look at LENR and you feel you have the obligation to remind us that you also believe that mainstream science has good reason not do care to look at Rossi’s revelations.

      Good for you for believing that science consists of noble knights of wisdom who come to rescue the lady from the tower. It gives you something to cling on to when you’re not busy hurling your nuts through the air at unsuspecting bystanders.

      • tectak

        To gerrit.
        I must have missed something or the Matrix shifted! Mainstream science is busting its guts to get together some evidence of LNER! Good on them, I say. Where I get weary is listening to the kitchen table wannabees, and it may well be Rossi’s kitchen table as that is about the only prop I have seen him use, making unsubstantiated claims which then evaporate under the glare of enquiry.
        You can research the research yourself but do not expect preferred conclusions to be in the mainstream Journals….sadly, perhaps, experimentation in LNER has not yet yielded up ANY evidential proof that the effect ( wiser men than I say “anomaly”) is anything other than unpredictable, indistinguishable from error, and wholly without that great granter of dreams…repeatability. What is true, and I say again, sadly, is that the whole dreary cycle of pseudo-scientific discovery breeds the kind of theatrical farce which we are again witnessing with Rossi. The “Oh yes it is-Oh no it isn’t” pantomime is not doing science any good at all. We may well praise Rossi for his stance…but where are his workers, his welders, his electrical engineers, his hydraulic engineers, production staff….must I really be expeced to believe that this man goes to his “production” facilty and achieves daily breakthroughs with nothing more than himself and a bit of pipe stuffed with grey putty, heated by an electrical element and mounted precariously on a bit of second hand dyna-racking.
        This is NOT research…this is NOT development…this is NOT science. Great discoveries are sometimes serrendipidous….I can accept that. As I have said before, Rossi MAY have something….but he is NOT the man to bring it to any kind of fruitful conclusion. To do that you must have quiet and contemplative perseverance. I intimated that the hoax may be the hoax. Maybe he DOES have a location somewhere which is “doing” the science..maybe he DOES have a well qualified workforce rapidly reconstructing failed experiments in to ever more fantastic eventualities….all of this is of NO consequence. What we ALL want to see is SUCCESS in all its glorious and splendid majesty….a product that is working, touchable, functional, useful, available…..but I fear it is not to be….and please don’t tell me about the 1Mw device being availale now….after all, it is made of 10Kw units which you cannot get hold of for love nor money…though I am not so sure about the money.

        • Gerrit

          “Mainstream science is busting its guts to get together some evidence of LENR!” – please provide an example.

          “mainstream journals …. repeatability” – pseudoskeptic drivel. Study the available peer reviewed papers in mainstream journals reporting evidence and their replications.

          LENR is researched by credible real scientists at real universities. That is a fact that you either do not know about, or you choose to dismiss as insignificant.

          I think that your perception of what I think about Rossi is different from what I actually think about Rossi.

          Just stop comparing Rossi’s activity with what you know about “how proper science is done”, it doesn’t make any sense.

          Rossi is not doing science, he is engineering a device that he plans to sell. Or so he says, it remains to be seen if he will succeed with his plan. I think that it is needless to advise any potential buyer to thoroughly test the device before signing the 1M USD check, to should know that don’t you think ?

          When you talk about science, don’t talk about Rossi and vice versa.

          • tectak

            “Mainstream science is busting its guts to get together some evidence of LENR!” – please provide an example.

            See below.

            “LENR is researched by credible real scientists at real universities. That is a fact that you either do not know about, or you choose to dismiss as insignificant.”

            I think you have just made my point. Thank you for your support.
            Best,
            tectak

          • Gerrit

            ah, I must have mistaken your sarcastic tone for something informative then.

            In fact it depends on what one might call “mainstream science”. As far as I can tell “mainstream science” is maybe just beginning to take note and read up on the story, just like “mainstream media”.

            On the other hand, many peer reviewed papers have been published in regular scientific journals. And credible scientists are indeed working on the topic. The funding situation seems to have improved since last year.

            Does that mean that the field of study is already fully accepted by “mainstream science” ? – no, many still scoff and ridicule the topic.

            For the science side of the story, just look what Robert Duncan from University of Missouri has to tell about the topic or just read “a student’s guide to cold fusion” by Edmund Storms

            Cheers

          • tectak

            To gerrit
            I am never sarcastic out of my own thinking. The screeching masses provide whatever irony you may detect in my comments. Frankly, I lack original thought, but through preference. It is always more effective to use the words of protagonists AGAINST them than to strain to think of an argument of your own!
            Best,
            tectak

          • Gerrit

            Look at page 16 “The Ugly” – I guess that is what you are referring to.

            http://www.focus.it/fileflash/energia/fusioneFredda/FF_doc/2009-06-25_NASA-GRC-Millis_AnomalousHeatEffect.pdf

          • Harold Coffman

            Thank you, Andrea Rossi … You are the ‘Edison’ of LENR … and CF.

            Regardless of patent outcome … you are perfecting and demonstrating
            an economical and simple generation of a heat source that has
            a multiple of COP.

            Not only that, you were able to show the ability to place units in
            series to obtain significant temperature above boiling … so the units
            can be efficiently used to create electricity by standard steam-turbines.

            You are making headway on control of heat-output to allow continuous stable heat, w/o harm to the equipment. You are seeking some
            certification to allow your progress towards a production of some
            e’cats.

            Yes, you deserve the title of Mr. Edison (Rossi) of LENR …

            You are the Mr Edison of Cold Fusion … I encourage others to praise
            you for your contributions and progress … making this CF successful.

            Best Reguards, HRC

    • jacob

      tectak,you don’t have to hope anymore,Cold Fusion is reality and it has been for 23 years with Pons and Fleischmann.
      If aliens take you up in a roundwing airplane ,please this us know.
      I guess you don’t know all planets are hollow, and pigs don’t fly.
      LENR is a free lunch.
      Wonder why people think the earth has a liquid molten core,where is the proof,scientists believe this theory with out the evidence,and has it been Peer approved?

      Best kept secret,the earth is hollow,read the book ,”Genesis of the new space age”usually free online from scribd, well researched information of years of work,providing a contrast to your current view of things inside the box,If you dare to look out of the box,you will realize the whole universe operates on free energy,how even your own mind interacts with the universal conscience ,even matter is created by free energy processes through natural scalar waves,light and Aether magnetic vortexes.
      And Science can not explain the origin of matter.

      Science is only guessing at this point and is still looking for their marbles,and it is in their laws and fake reality,you appear you have put your trust.

      • tectak

        To Jacob.
        You have conmvinced me of everything with your faultless logic. I shall book my next vacation in hollow earth. I realise I may have to step out of the box…but if you think it is safe, then I shall be your disciple….until something else comes along.
        Worshipfully yours,
        Believe everything,
        tectak
        Seriously though….hollow earth!

        • jacob

          tectak,if you are serious about your trip ,you should contact the Icelandic government.

        • jacob

          tectak,I am serious about inner earth,the place where sweet water Icebergs come from,driftwood ,some birds migrate to the north,and santa? , Vikingland,Bodland,New Germany ,population total of 300 million as of 1980 of inner earth.
          North pol opening north of Greenland .
          many military bases keeping track of security.

        • jacob

          tectak,Venus population 4 billion,

          • tectak

            I think you will find it is now just under 3 Billion since McDonalds opened up there.

          • jacob

            what about burger king

        • jacob

          Tectak,my question to you is,what stops you from believing a different reality?,is it what you believe ,depending on what you have learned through your parents and your teachers and other influences in your life, responsible for your opinion and your own created reality.

          If the truth were different,how could you ever believe it?
          IT would be upsetting your whole belief system.
          It would be saver, not to investigate the matter any further to keep your sanity.

          • AstralProjectee

            Hahaha.

  • Anothercoilgun

    Please put data and quotes. Not interested in you add on.