Andrea Rossi on Business Plans, Philosophy

Many thanks to E-Cat World reader Renzo for this excellent translation of a part of Andrea Rossi’s discussion at the Pordenone meeting on October 12th. This is a very interesting explanation by Rossi of his business strategy and his guiding philosophy regarding commercialization of his invention. The original Italian transcript can be found here on the 22passi.blogspot.come site. Th

“So, yes… your speech is logical, the problem is complex… because first of all we can do the steps according to our legs, so the investments that we can do are the investments that we can do with our own money. I refused holdings until today because … because maybe all of you saw the movie about Mattei, the one with Volontè, it came out when I was twenty… and the famous phrase of Mattei is “when a dog joins forces with the hounds, he ends up being pushed aside and eventually the bowl is only in the hands of the hounds.”

“So – as you can see – it may be that our business strategy is not as naive as it may seem, because we must keep in mind that our financial development must be such as not to depend on entities that could not only put us aside, but even suppress the technology itself, because the problems in this area are much more complex than it seems. I have said it before, when I was asked the question about the possibility of applying this technology to large power stations etc., I said what I was told, I did not say what I think … [Applause of those present].

“And when I say that we have received ten thousand requests, but in the meantime we begin to provide only a few hundred, it is because we do not know who the rest are … meanwhile, we begin to do this with our own means. The projections of the business plan that we made are such that the profits from the sale of the first plants should have an exponential growth as to ensure that other requests can be safely met. If at this time we went to look for funding for the necessary funds to immediately build ten thousand plants, we would inevitably have a debt that could be toxic. You know, loans are like whiskey, a glass is good, two-liters kill the liver.

“So I want to have funding only if I am very sure that I can return that money anytime I can legally be required, because otherwise this could cause the consequences that we have said before. So the business model that we have chosen is a very aggressive model within the limits of safety to remain in control of the technology. We are keeping to this premise in all the world where we operate … in the United States we have made an extremely important deal… but we have to maintain this philosophy not only in our interest, I think, but also in the interest of the technology, because – look – to the point where we are, I say with absolute sincerity that I have had proposals such that I could say “ok , I will sell everything, take the money and with the money I make a life for me, my children, my children’s children and the children’s children of my children … and then for the others it’s their own business!” [laughs] We chose instead of attending the development of this creature [he points to the Hot-cat] in order to be quite sure that it will grow up and graduate. [applause of those present]”

Andrea Rossi with Hot Cat. (Source: 22passi.blogspot.com)
  • NJT

    Applause from me too…

  • clovis

    Hi, Renzo,
    Thanks a bunch, you de man, smile.

  • Robert Mockan

    Rossi is smart enough to know to avoid business snakes.
    And Rossi didn’t sell out.
    And efforts to buyout did not work.

    Got to like the integrity.

    But the next step is persuasion, and after that…
    coercion. If Rossi is still kicking then…
    there is always… assassination.

    The more I examine the ramifications of his latest demo with COP greater than 6 at 1000 C, all I can say now is…

    Stay away from alleys, watch your back, and keep trusted people around you.

    • Voodoo

      With Rossi way of business this will need 145 years to saturate market with LENR devices.

      For humanity benefit, it is need, that he sell licenses at certain point of business path curve.

      • Cliff Bradley

        Actually, his way will provide the fastest way to get the technology into the world. Once the tech is developed, then mass production is relatively easy. Small, motivated teams produce results fastest. That is what he’s doing. Also, the fact that he understands the perils of debt show he won’t get bogged down.

    • buffalo

      nah.assassination? Its much too late for that.if rossi comes to harm it would have opposite effect and spur another ten thousand rossis in2 action.assassination would b futile.

    • Renzo

      Rossi said at Pordenone that he has entrusted all the documents to a notary. In case something bad happened to him, it will be made public.

      • ivan_cev

        ok the problem is solved, what we waiting for…

        • ivan_cev

          🙂

        • Renzo

          LOL !!! 😀

        • HeS

          No. Problem is not “solved”. Some people want to bury this project (big corp). They will protect Rossi with all their strength:).

      • Robert Mockan

        Yeah, right. Like that is secure. These days even judges are bought, and if that doesn’t work then a bullet to the head will.
        Knocking a notary off would be simple.

        • Renzo

          there are about 6000 notaries in Italy, who knows who’s the right one? 🙂

          • Peter_Roe

            Telephone and email records. If nothing, look for notaries who are physically close to Rossi’s labs and offices, or old associations.

            Personally I hope Rossi has made multiple arrangements, just in case.

          • Omega Z

            Maybe the Notary statement is a deception. Can those hounds take that Risk.

          • Peter_Roe

            Probably. Perhaps he’s left fake plans with someone traceable – that might appeal to his sense of humour.

            Realistically, he would probably need a secure, proxy internet connection to the root area of some web space where he can store and periodically update the information. The access details for this space, and instructions on when to access it, would be all he would need to send to his representatives. He could even send a user name and the password to two separate people, one having the contact details for the other.

            As you say, the risks of going after Rossi could be high.

        • Blanco69

          The steady organic growth model didn’t suit a couple of months ago when we were taking about factories full of robots churning out domestic ecats like Willy Wonka on overdrive! An interesting turn of prudence from Mr Rossi

          • NJT

            This ‘prudent decision’ obviously forced by the inaction of the patent offices to recognize his IP and the fact of not yet obtaining the necessary certifications in order to make public sales…

          • Blanco69

            NJT – Yes, it could be that. I’m always on the look out for irrational Rossi behaviour but a brick wall on successful patents would prompt a more relaxed pace in earth shattering developments.

    • LilyLover

      24 Hr Audio Video feed of Rossi himself, not the E-Cat…
      Just for the statement…

  • George N

    It’s rare too see someone with such integrity, God be with Andrea Rossi

  • Adam Lepczak

    This shapes out to be a great story…
    In a twist of fate, the collapse of the PetrolDragon was the greatest thing that has ever happened to Dr. Rossi – as he was forced to look at other ways of making energy – the one that does not require processing of toxic waste…

    • Renzo

      Yeah, it also thaugt Rossi about not making debts and watching out for the hounds. Some very hard but well learned lessons.

  • buffalo

    anybody with enuf money to feed rossi,s childrens childrens children wont need rossi actualy,they could just make their own ecats ripoffs.therz no way to keep natures secrets secret for too long.

    • I think that Rossi has developed his tech extremely fast, much faster than any big money could have accomplished in the same time. Although followers are drumming their fingers and feeling anxious, the progress from last year’s cop=6 water boiler with its hydrogen bottle to the present hotcat has been fast, and the path had to be invented along the way. It was probably not easy to significantly improve all the important parameters simultaneously (temperature, COP, power density, simplicity, robustness), but it seems that he managed to do it.

      • Peter_Roe

        I think that “..and feeling anxious” is key. Rossi has indeed made astounding progress, and no-one else seems to be close to the apparently immediate usability of the ‘hot cat’. However, attempts at suppression are still in process, and there is still a possibility that he could be halted in some way before his products become available. So naturally, people are anxious for the technology to get past the point where it can no longer be subverted by those whose interests are threatened.

        • georgehants

          Morning Peter, I want to get on with fairly attacking governments, administrations etc.
          Until there is that final indisputable conformation of a Rossi high gain, then I find it is not reasonable to blame these people, although I agree with you that they probably are keeping well in touch with events.
          Well if their scientific advisers are doing their job.

          • Peter_Roe

            George, I’m not sure that Rossi is quite ready to go there yet, as to do so would leave those who would like his invention to go away with no option except to take action. It is in his interests to always leave room for doubt, no matter how many 3rd party verifications or university studies emerge, until he is ready to sell hot cat generator packages.

            Like you I am worried that this will leave enough time for people like Camoron to consolidate plans for new nuclear build with an unproven and possibly dangerous PWR design, but unfortunately I don’t think we will have any real weapons to beat government with for a while yet. I hope I’m wrong – an obviously viable alternative is desperately needed before we are committed to this imminent folly by government idiocy. (Work has already started on a new double reactor at Hinkley Point in Somerset, despite the fact that EDF have no planning permission for the station as yet. They think – rightly – that when Camoron has pushed through his completely undemocratic ‘streamlined’ planning regulations, approval will be a rubber stamp job.)

          • georgehants

            Agreed, it’s a conundrum as you say.
            Frustrating to not be able to respond to these people until Mr. Rossi allows that final step

          • Peter_Roe

            George – replied, but gone to moderation. This is getting a bit tiring.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Agree Peter, the automated moderation system has some seriously flaws. Hope someone can lessen the filter a bit.

  • Tony76

    1. The best way to guarantee this new energy source is not suppressed is to publish the method, at the speed of light, globally across the Internet.

    2. The best way to guarantee Bill Gates like monopoly fortune is to keep the system closed.

    3. Greenwin pointed out that Rossi also appears to be motivated by Sticking it To the Man, responsible in his eyes, for the Petroldragon failure.

    IMO his motivation order is 2. 3. 1.

    • phlatbeer

      Sadly, but in a paradoxical way e-cat may turn out financially disastrous for world economics at large yet make the (Lire) Italian economy sing. Are we already seeing a world wide economic pre-release of e-cat now as “people” hedge against an e-cat, LENR world economic impact. Look at METEX and price of Ni. And financial institutions in the near future will probably have bearish views on fossil fuel and renewable energy suppliers; and therefore by extension, support industries. Pain before gain? And what of the thermal footprint of say one billion e-cats working all at once as some would like have done? Just a couple of observations.

  • Brad Arnold

    The flaw in Rossi’s plan is that he will start to lose control of “the technology” as soon as everyone realizes what a gold mine it is. Now he is protected by the lack of awareness and realization of LENR’s real commercial value.

    Rossi will be the father of LENR, but he won’t be the (sole) owner for much longer than when he makes it a commercial success (unless he follows the Google paradigm, which appears to be contrary to his current plan).

    BTW, Rossi is showing his true nature as a builder and an entrepreneur. He must be in seventh heaven working on such a monumental project as the E-Cat.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      “The flaw in Rossi’s plan is that he will start to lose control of “the technology” as soon as everyone realizes what a gold mine it is.”

      That’s why Rossi should sell the “golden eggs”, and not sell the “geese” that lay those eggs….at least until he gets ironclad patent protection.

  • ivan_cev

    I see all are so thirsty and hungry about LENR, lets hope Rossi do not hurt your hopes.

  • buffalo

    opponents would have to assassinate not only rossi but all co-workers so thats pretty unreasonable. subversion tactics will be the norm but this thing is too out in the open now for that to work for long.if bribery becomes the norm then im gna build one of these things right now lol!

    • Peter_Roe

      Mass eliminations seem to have taken place in the past, possibly to ensure that secrets are kept. I don’t see why it couldn’t happen again.

      http://projectcamelot.org/marconi.html

      http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/deadbiologists.html

      • georgehants

        Many UFO researchers die under mysterious circumstances
        http://english.pravda.ru/science/mysteries/12-10-2012/122435-ufo_researchers_die-0/

      • The website cited whatreallyhappened.com is not a terribly accurate nor reliable website … can you provide something more authoritative and peer-reviewed?

        • georgehants

          _Jim, are you saying that the peer reviewed journals and establishments that for 23 years debunked and denied Cold Fusion are more “authoritative”.
          I think we will do better to rely on fringe websites like this one for the Truth.
          Perhaps you could guide us to a mainline journal or source to find our Cold Fusion information.

          • George, what are you going on about?

            I asked for something regarding what Peter posted … are you not following that?

            _Jim

          • georgehants

            _Jim, I think my point is very clear —
            I am sorry you have failed to grasp it.
            Thank you.

          • Are *you* saying that whatreallyhappened.com is a website whose content and info need not be verified or cross-checked?

            Maybe I misunderstand your intentions here, you are not being very clear, rather, it looks somewhat cryptic (I perhaps am missing some ‘inside baseball’ implications?)

            Please, going forward, if I can implore you to write or convey your intentions perhaps, if able, in a slightly more (rather than less) cryptic or hidden manner?

            _Jim

          • georgehants

            Jim, I have looked again at my reply and would try to reduce the syllable number for you but I find it is already at a minimum.
            Thank you.

          • “Irresistible force meets immovable object.”

            ‘Enjoy your stay’ as is said.

            You can’t always make your ‘opponent’ look bad (edit: or ‘feel bad’), George.

            _Jim

            PS. “Say goodnight Gracie.”

          • georgehants

            _Jim, I have clearly answered your comment.
            If you would now like to answer my reply that would be good.
            This little jaunt round the houses seems a little pointless.

      • Peter_Roe

        _Jim – The mysterious deaths of many often young scientists who had worked on military projects through Marconi and Ferranti has been the subject of interest here (UK) for many years. At one time I was loosely involved on the fringes of the industry, and that was the ‘story’ I looked for a link to. The other one just came up in the same search, although I am aware of a number of untimely deaths in the ‘states among researchers, witnesses and whistleblowers with links to 9/11, in one way or another.

        As George says, establishment information can’t be trusted, so despite the fact that there is plenty of unreliable material around, the internet must still be the best general source for info of this kind. If this topic is of interest I can only suggest you do your own ‘due diligence’ and then go with instinct. It really comes down to whether on balance you believe that states will fairly freely kill their own citizens if to do so serves the ends of politicians and power brokers, and they are sure they can get away with it.

        I believe that answer is a simple ‘yes’, but this is just on a balance of probabilities, having observed other actions taken by governments (mostly the US govt.) over the decades. The fact is that there isn’t much to stop them – certainly not any moral scruples, as any degree of integrity is obviously something of a rarity among the personality types that succeed in politics and also rise to the top of various state agencies.

        • Peter_Roe on October 16, 2012 at 6:23 pm:

          “_Jim – The mysterious deaths of many often young scientists …

          Not buying ANY of it.

          Conspiracy theory stuff.

          You have probably lived a sheltered life .. never worked in industry, for instance. Don’t have the slightest idea how things work in the REAL world.

          For instance, I have met several times one of the scientists at Texas Instruments who is credited with invention/development of the calculator … Jerry Merryman, has his name on the patent, and a copy of the patent used to be hanging on the wall just inside the main door there at the TI “North Building” facility in 1993 … there were and are _no_ ‘conspiracies’ … just straight-line engineering and hard work by a lot of ppl.

          You ever go to the library, a good library, that has the BSTJ (Bell System Technical Journal) or the early IEEE (known as the IRE back when) Pubs and thumbed through a few dozen volumes?

          TRY that sometime and get back with me, I mean us.

          You might find out there is a WHOLE ‘NOTHER WORLD out there beyond conjured-up conspiracy theories put out by hucksters who want your money and your time and attention for their books, videos and pitiful website hits …

          _Jim

          • jacob

            Jim,sorry you are stuck in a box and can only see what you believe to be real,what is real remains unseen unclear and unbelievable,by you and billions more who sincerly believe the fake reality of curriculums of this worlds history and it’s science cleverly created by those who wanted you to believe just that.
            since LENR is now proven beyond a doubt,and we live in a pretent democracy ,let me tell you something about the real world,whatever is unbelievable or impossible and which is not seen is more real what you think.

            I wish you well.

          • All that can be really said after that is: “You have to get out more.”

            .

            This is also applicable:

            “Conspiracy theories are the favored tools of the weak-minded.”

            _Jim

          • georgehants

            Wonderful day

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Technical question (bit off topic):

            If we assume that the hot-ecat can be used for home use and we assume a COP of 20 and a total thermal capacity of 10KW, how much heat will then escape into the environment? My own calculation is as follows:
            – Industry waste heat not included, only home use
            – Assuming 30% heat to energy conversion
            – Assuming the 10KW is per hour
            – After conversion to energy we have 10000 / 100 * 30 = 3000 Watt electrical energy
            – After electrical conversion there is 10000 – 3000 = 7000 Watt of termal energy left
            – Earth population is 7.000.000.000
            – Waste heat would be calculated as follows: 7000 Watt * 12 (half a day of unused heat energy) * 182 (half a year) * 3.500.000.000 (half the earth population) = 53.508.000.000.000.000 Watt or 53508 TerraWatt/Year. That’s more than the US national debt 🙂
            – Earth square meters: 510.000.000 m2
            – Waste heat by global warming: 2.9 W/m2 (http://www.skepticalscience.com/waste-heat-vs-greenhouse-warming.html)
            – Waste heat by eCat: 53.508.000.000.000.000 / 510.000.000 = 104.917.647 W/m2 per year

            My calculations must be waaaaaay of or we are heading for a really major disaster.
            I’d say it’s my calculation…
            (* The dot is the european notation and does not mean comma)

          • Note: all 10 kW produced eventually becomes waste heat, also the electric part.
            If 7 billion people would produce 10 kW each all the time, it’s 7e3*7e9/(4*pi*6371.2e3^2)=0.1 W/m2, still about 30 times smaller than the global warming effect (if the latter is assumed to be 2.9 W/m2). I.e., at this energy consumption level, the effect of the waste heat on global the temperature wouldn’t be noticeable.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            So it was my calculation. (No idea how your’s works, but trusting yours to beat mine :))

            Since I expect energy consumption to go way up once a hotcat with COP 20 or more is available for electic power generation, it still won’t matter much compared to global warming. Also considering that global warming is also created by CO2 and other emission gasses which are not produced with an ecat, it’s even conceivable that global warming is reduced.

            Thanks for the explanation!

          • Andrew Macleod

            One other thing is that CO2 creates a greenhouse effect, utilizing the power of the sun as a heater. I think that small localized heat will have a minimal effect on a global scale even if there are millions on units running as the earth and buildings will absorb much of the heat.

          • The only way direct local heating might disappear from earth is by radiating into space. It happens more easily if the heat is in “hot spots” rather than average warming everywhere. Which is more likely to be true with artificial heating than greenhouse warming. But in any case, as said, the heat problem doesn’t seem to exist unless energy consumption is scaled up by factor 30-100 or so.

          • phlatbeer

            🙂

          • andreiko

            Aerth 510.000.000.000.000.M2 and 510.000.000 KM2

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Thanks. That is one mistake fixed. Now the waste heat per m2 is 53.508.000.000.000.000 / 510.000.000.000.000 = 104,9W/m2

          • modernsteam

            10KW … per hour? Kw is a unit of power, and power is not expressed per unit time, such as an hour. Instead, one says something like KWhours per hour, MegaJoules/hour, BTUs per hour, that sort of thing – energy output per hour, per second, or whatever unit of time. But never power per hour, or any other unit of time.

          • jacob

            I wish I could say you are right Jim,but if you REALLY look in depth ,you have to look at all information available including some unbelievable secret government stuff and hundreds of testimonies from the disclosure project from Steven Greer,judge only after you look at all the facts to a new awakening to really open your mind to new possibilities, also in the free energy field,US built roundwing airplanes already flew the sky ages ago,but are powered by a ficticious force,which is the ether as energy source, it is very classified information ,this may be the first time you have heard about it.
            I don’t expect you to believe it,but to at least look at all information available,and Jim it helps you to be objective.
            Read much and learn well.

          • jacob on October 17, 2012 at 10:50 am:

            “I wish I could say you are right Jim,but if you REALLY look in depth … ”

            I still say that some ppl still need to ‘get out more’ …

            Too many honest, hard-working ppl like yourselves, jacob, DON’T even verify the conspiracy theories that you’re fed by an unscrupulous crowd who MAKE MONEY by selling you this disinformation.

            IF YOU KNEW anything about what it took to develop the materials, do the machining, hire the tinsmiths, the ‘riveters’, the mechanical engineers, the electrical engineers, the aeronautical engineers, the materials specialists AND the line people who do the actual work, you would find tons of those people who did legitimate work on the ‘skunk works’ aircraft and NOBODY on vaporous projects like ’round wing’ aircraft.

            Something ppl like yourself NEED to understand are that the LAWS OF PHYSICS *do* apply to something as simple as AERODYNAMICS and ’round wings’ don’t provide lift.

            Period.

            Again, you’re being taken (to the cleaners!) by all these silly conspiracy theories peddled by those who are making their livings by peddling this kind of pap …

            It is sad that otherwise logical folk are taken in by such ‘stories’ spun with *no* tangible evidence, and by folks with limited exposure to science, industry, who have *not* gone back and even read what was being done with something like radio in the 1930’s (good library should have IRE series back to 1930 for instance) even (which is my specialty) let alone mechanics and aviation but rather rely on ‘spun’ stories by charlatans who mislead you folks!

            So, now we are seeing the *real* dumbing down of the world, the devolution, if you will, the descent of mankind’s ‘use o reason’ back to a primitive stage, and back into the caves because you will *not* use your head and your brain to verify far-out tales by hucksters by challenging these ‘stories’ and asking the ‘sources’ for proof.

            Instead you ‘tell’ me to ‘read more’ … I HAVE read and I’ve FOUND these sources DUBIOUS and FRAUDULENT.

            Use your mind, man, challenge these peddlers of conspiracy theories, for the benefit of mankind for Pete’s sake!

            _Jim

          • jacob

            Jim,we all have our own reality,a reality made up of all we know and believe,I appreciate your view,and wish you well,I was an eyewitness to a scoutcraft UFO in the late 1980’s,there was someone with me who saw it too,the local newspaper was saying people seen orange lights,that orange light was stationary over a house two house over where I lived,I watched it for about 5 minutes,then it suddenly took off,within a splitsecond there was an orange streak in the sky,it took me 18 years to find out what it was,part of a secret project by the starwars defence system under President Reagan.

            But for now you are better of to stay in your current reality which you believe in very strongly,to keep your sanity.

          • Francesco CH

            Herb Gillis
            October 16th, 2012 at 5:02 PM
            Andrea Rossi:
            You mentioned in the past that you have run test reactors for long periods (6 mos. or more). There is also still some confusion (in my mind) about the source of the excess energy. If the reaction is nuclear then a small amount of the fuel mass is converted into the excess energy. If a reactor were run for a long enough period of time, it should be possible to measure the mass loss by direct weighing (of a closed system). Have you tried this? If so, can you share with us the results?

            Andrea Rossi
            October 16th, 2012 at 5:16 PM
            Dear Herb Gills:
            1 g of mass is equivalent to 23 000 MWh. In 6 months we got about 18 MWh, which, in terms of mass, are equivalent to 0.00078 g
            You can imagine that to weight this mass difference is impossible, considering the many factors that can influence the weight.
            No, we have not been able to measure any mass difference, of course!
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Peter_Roe

            _Jim.

            The links I gave list some recorded facts about the statistically improbable deaths of a number of people engaged in certain related activities. You can process that information in any way you choose. In more general terms, you are entirely free to imagine that everything that CNN or the BBC tells you is completely true, if you find that comforting.

            However, please do not assume to know anything about me, or attempt to impose some simplistic stereotype on me, and I will return the favour. In fact my background is probably more or less the opposite of what you appear to imagine.

          • Peter_Roe

            For ‘assume’ please read ‘presume’.

          • georgehants

            Just interesting as this is our nearest system (nearly) and we can remember that Giordano Bruno was burnt by the church, for saying that there where other Worlds around other stars in 1600.
            Over 400 years and science is still “burning” anybody who speaks against the religious Dogma of the establishment.
            ——-
            The astronomers at the European Southern Observatory have announced that they have discovered an Earth-sized planet around Alpha Centauri B.
            http://news.softpedia.com/news/Earth-Size-Planet-Found-Next-Door-Orbiting-Alpha-Centauri-299974.shtml

          • Peter_Roe

            Now we have a target for Earth’s first robot interstellar probe – a reactionless Shawkey ‘Emdrive’ unit powered by CF and launched from the solar system at 120km/s by Pekka’s electric sail!

            http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/46602-At-last-a-reactionless-drive

            Interesting related link:
            http://www.jerrypournelle.com/sciences/dean.html

  • John

    I see one small business plan detail missing – sales.

    • Andrew Macleod

      Selling “heat” to a freezing customer will not be an issue.

      • mcloki

        Bingo!.

        • PLEASE be aware that there are MANY industrial processes that require HEAT, like the food processing industry, anytime that LIQUID water must be boiled off to thicken a product or raw foodstuffs must be cooked.

          Please always look beyond one’s own limited experience before assuming ‘heat’ has little use on its own.

          _Jim

          • Omega z

            _Jim

            This is a problem across the Board for the E-cat. A limited view point.

            Tho I appreciate the supportive attitudes verses antagonistic, many don’t grasp the magnitude of the tasks ahead. Peek demand, Cost of equipment to actually generate electricity. The Shear magnitude of numbers & market reality.

            Tho the E-cat is a revolutionary product, it is just 1 of many components to do the things people’s imagination come up with. Most of which isn’t available or needs major revisions to become reality.

            In fact this seems to be an equal opportunity infliction. As those who would try & suppress it also don’t realize that by the time this becomes a threat to many of them, They will no longer be around or to old to care.

    • Terrific interview! I sure am curious about that “extremely important deal” in the US. Any clues?

      • Peter_Roe

        I hate to sound like one of the skeptics, but I am always a bit wary of tales about what is happening in the US. It’s possible he has an order for another 1MW low temperature e-cat to be built there, but generally Italy seems to be Rossi’s base of operations, and the place to watch.

        • Indeed Rossi often mentions about his work in the US, perhaps he started to like the place while being there in “exile” and succeeding in starting a new business life. But for anyone, even after some traumatic experiences, home country is always home country and native language is the easiest to use.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    October 16th, 2012 at 6:11 AM
    Dear Seppo:
    Good point. We are working already with heat exchangers, using the primary and the secondary circuit and the behaviour is stable. Obviously the temperature in the circuits of the heat exchanger depends on the flow rate. BUT: we cannot yet say we are ready, even if the real efficiency we are obtaining ( also today in Ferrara ) are much better than what has been indicated in Pordenone; I have underprofiled the results, to be conservative: very much so.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • walker

    Rossi’ manufacturing development would be a perfect business for the Crowd funding model using some of the modern internet based crowd sourcing websites. This could take place from when the product is ready to expand above what Leonardo Corp can initialy cope with. This then makes the investors the public and each of them becomes a defacto marketing asset. It also keeps the merchant bankers and snakes that Rossi has experienced from taking over.

    Then make manufacturing a league competition where companies get to do manufacture and sales for a fixed license term of a say a year. Perhaps 4 or 5 of them based on a competetive system where:
    The best functioning gets 40% oportunity.
    The second gets 30%
    The third get 20%
    The fourth gets 7%
    The fifth gets 3%

    With a league running in each geographic location.

    Kind Regards walker

    At the end of each year the manufacturers get promoted or relegated with the bottom performer being religated right out and replaced by a new market entrant.

  • Renzo

    A comment of mine in the previous topic has remained in moderation so I repost it here: the domain http://www.ecat-world.com has been registered by Mauro De Barba (http://tinyurl.com/burddmy) who works for Eliwell (http://tinyurl.com/c3vt73w) a producer of control systems for refrigeration and air conditioning.

    • Omega z

      So Renzo

      Is this someone who may be interested in developing or selling add on aftermarket products or what?

      • Renzo

        I wonder if it is their own initiative or if they have some deal with Rossi. It is an interesting coincidence.

  • barty

    We even need a serious third party validation.
    Until this wasn’t released, all these interviews are pretty looking dreams and spekulations.

    • PersonFromPorlock

      Until Rossi produces something besides ‘plans’ – and inconsistent plans at that – this is all vaporware.

      The sad fact is that if Rossi had anything like what he has already claimed to have, a credible black-box demonstration of the fact would start a huge bidding war as major industrial companies tried to buy the secret: Not to bury (too late for that, and probably just a bit of anti-corporate romanticism anyway), but to develop and exploit.

      • Allen McCloud

        Did you read the article? o.0

      • Omega z

        Person

        Give Rossi a couple Billion.

        Go public about it & claim it’s a long term bet or bad investment. It will require decades to develop. Suppression complete. People forget about it.

    • Susan Corrigan

      Nobody cares what we think. The devices are not ready for purchase, and we are not investors. Therefore we don’t have a stake in this. All of these goofs saying that someone needs to “prove something” to them are assuming that it is important that someone prove something to them.

      I don’t hear anybody asking Apple to prove anything about a product that has not yet been released. Of course it’s vaporware. Everything is until it comes to market.

      • Peter_Roe

        This obvious reality is pointed out quite regularly, but the whine goes on…

      • John

        If nobody cares what we think then why are you reading this comment?

        • Entertainment value?

      • barty

        The difference between Rossi and Apple is, that Apple has already a name as serious company which sold million or billion of working products.

        The Leonardo Corp. yet never sold any product, just claim to sold to the two unknow military customers.

        If Rossi anytime will sell some working first generation e-cat devices, no one will be incredulous if he claims to bring another more efficent e-cat generation to the market.

        • barty on October 16, 2012 at 3:58 pm:

          “The difference between Rossi and Apple is, that Apple has already a name as serious company which sold million or billion of working products.

          The Leonardo Corp. yet never sold any product, just claim to sold to the two unknow military customers.”

          – – – – – – –

          Response:

          Wrong or bad comparison; Apple had a beginning, once upon a time, when Mr. Jobs and Mr. Wozniak (sp?) sold their first computer to their first customer on the *merits* of what it did as evaluated *by* that first customer … have none of you ever started a ‘business’ and sold your own first developed product? It seems to me now that customers are doing just that, evaluating the E-Cat.

          I would say that very, very, few of you have ever developed new product for customers, most people commenting here are probably *safely* employed and tucked-away in warm university positions and run very little risk in what they do in their lives, especially the decisions they make regarding technology and the directions they take.

          Remember, it is the pioneers in a technology (or any field for that matter) that ‘take the arrows’.

          _Jim

          • Joel C.

            Well said!

          • Thanks Joel.

          • Mark

            Actually, I was there at the introduction of the
            Apple One…Fortunately for us the leaders of the
            personal computer revolution *knew* that they
            would have to make their fortunes by “building
            and selling product” to general public.
            Fortunately no-one sat back and said; “Look all
            we all have to do is convince the world’s largest
            computer companies to buy our designs based on
            how implicitly great they are.” Selling product
            implies disclosure, and also not getting
            hung-up by so called “regulating agencies”. Can
            Rossi take the e-cat organizational heat? We
            shall see.

            :S:MarkSCoffman

          • Mark on October 16, 2012 at 5:56 pm:

            “Actually, I was there at the introduction of the Apple One… …”

            Interesting … with the ‘Apple I’ it wasn’t so much ‘introduced’ as it just appeared for sale in the “The Byte Shop” which was owned by Paul Terrell and who contracted with Jobs to have them built after being approached by Jobs (Jobs made a ‘sale’ before product was available on the basis of a demo Woz made and showed at the Homebrew Computer Club meeting) … so in reality their first customer was Terrell and the ‘introduction’ was by the Apple I’s appearance on the store shelves at The Byte Shop and it was all done on ‘credit’ (30-day net type stuff) although one could say that the Homebrew Computer Club meeting was where it was ‘introduced’ but Jobs had not made any pitches of that model yet …

            Check it out at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.

            _Jim

          • jacob

            right on Jim,I custom built equipment for customers,have a welding shop and a mobile service,new products require R&d ,one is built at first and if it is still working after a few years,I would consider building some more,if they are still working after 10 years,I consider that product a success and would built a thousand no problem.
            So why would Mr Rossi built 10000 units today and take the risk of getting tangled up to his head in warranty work on a product that could be recalled.
            3rd party tests are for the birds,peer review is also for the birds,who needs them anyways.

            Lenr has been proven without a doubt by now.

            For those who still don’t get it, I feel very very sorry.

          • Thanks jacob.

    • Redford

      Define “serious 3rd party validation”. I am quite skeptical of ppl asking for something, and then, when they got it, say, no what I meaned was a “serious” something. They generally tend to move the goal post no matter what is brought to their insatiable requests. There’s one clearly coming and in my book every skeptic who hasn’t said first what critaeria it should met has no voice at all on the topic.

      • georgehants

        Redford, most of science and university’s have for 23 years shown themselves to be untrustworthy and incompetent to judge Cold Fusion.
        I would suggest Rossi invite the children involved from Pirelli High School to do the validation.
        They are probably far more reliable than any professional establishment jokers.

        • NJT

          +2

          • LCD

            ..

        • georgehants

          I wonder if anyone has told them about Cold Fusion —

          United Nations, Sustainable Development Knowledge Platform.
          Conceptualizing a Set of Sustainable Development Goals – A Special Event of the Second Committee of the UN General Assembly
          One of the main outcomes of the Rio+20 Conference was the agreement by member States to launch a process to develop a set of sustainable development goals (SDGs) that could be a useful tool for pursuing focused and coherent action on sustainable development. Member States resolved to establish an “inclusive and transparent intergovernmental process open to all stakeholders, with a view to developing global sustainable development goals to be agreed by the General Assembly.”.
          Read at —
          http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/sdgsevent.html

          • LilyLover

            Of all the people, I did not expect you to believe what they say they exist for.

          • georgehants

            LilyLover, Ha, so many people do this —
            I have only made the point about Cold Fusion at the top.
            As regards the link I have made no opinion, just put it up for possible interest for readers.

    • HeS

      What for Rossi should prove us whatever.
      I’m not “serious” investor, so I need not “serious third party validation”.
      I’m simply curious about finish this “drama” (happy end:)

  • Bob

    November issue of Popular Science has an article on Rossi and LENR in general. It was not very positive on LENR and quite negative on Rossi. The author states that he actually went to Italy and interviewed Rossi. It does have some interesting details.

    Very negative on Rossi, somewhat more positive on Celani, but not much. Actually names some of the big skeptics by name and position. It was interesting that the author did not give the skeptics much credance either!

    A fairly main stream, “semi-scientific” magazine publishing a LENR story! It is starting to gain some attention, even if it gave a negative picture.

    • Joel C.

      There is always a person who thinks very negatively about something or someone.

      The same could be easily said about a person thinking very positively.

      So, they cancel each other out.

      What can we do now? We wait and see, as it is the prudent thing to do.

    • LCD

      Buying the issue is the only way to read it right now right?

      • Bob

        I looked on Pop Sci website and it looks like they do not publish the current articles until after the next issue. I.E. one month after. At least I did not see any current articles on the website.

        It is a 7 page report, with pictures and a very interesting read. Quite the intrigue and cloak and dagger stuff!

      • Babble

        go to your local library to read it.

    • LCD

      is this the article that Rossi was claiming he would be published in? Cause if that’s the case, wow, was he optimistic about the article and the magazine’s credibility.

    • I agree with Bob, it was a poor article overall. While I am happy to see some MS coverage, it is pretty poor investigating and journalism. Choosing random people/scientists he encountered and using their opinion to say whether LENR and Rossi is real is pretty weak. A few of the people interviewed I know have specific agendas against Rossi.

      How can anyone not conclude LENR (at least at low power) is 100% real, looking at the facts and who is saying it is real??? Also, I dont recall seeing any or much mention of Brillouin in the article, who appear to be more credible than Rossi, have credible partners (SRI, angel investor), are US based and institutionally funded.

      no-one can believe or accept that a breakthrough has been achieved. well it is coming, whether the accept it or not. just my 2 cents,

      tyler

    • jacob

      still good,more people will become aware of LENR.

  • sapain

    haven`t commented for awhile, busy building my proto-type solarized e-trike.
    150watts mounted on the deck of an e-trike-done.
    150watts mounted on a tow behind trailer-done. trailer weighs 22kgs.
    insulated the batt box-done.
    solar production of h2 system, next to incorperate.
    total cost, solarized e-trike-$3600, solarized trailer $1200.=$4800.
    16wks of not plugging it into the grid, 2000km traveled, would have gone further but building takes up travelling time.
    gas savings paid for it. $300 per month in auto savings now goes towards purchasing solar panels to produce h2 for personal use to save on batt requirements and h2 and o2 for sale.

    $4800 for a mobile personal transporter that doesn`t need bought fuel and is a mobile energy platform, which can go 200km per sunny day, that with multiple units can create a swarm. the unit can b incorperated into the home solar system to give an extra boost, or even pay for the home solar system from carbon fuel savings.
    10 solarized e-trikes and trailers packing 600watts+ each, 6kws of mobile power, capable of producing 60kwhrs of power per day, 100 units swarmed, 60kws of mobile power. 1000units swarmed, 600kws.

    i call my new toy, the light dragon. it spreads it`s wings and collects light energy while i`m riding it. took awhile to hatch the egg, but well worth it.
    riding the light dragon now saves me $5-7k per yr in fuel costs, kept me out of debt by $20k. with the solarized trailer i can haul more mass to make a few $, increase range and decrease charging time.
    next project, light breathing dragon, to refocus light to melt materials for reforming and shaping.
    already use a fusion reactor, it`s a safe distance away and there is a magnetic shield for extra protection.
    just shown u how to get free energy and a free energy personal transporter. hope it helped.
    next up date, h2 system on the solarized trike and trailer, why do i need an h2 system, producing more energy than it uses on a daily, average use basis and i don`t want to waste all that free energy, and then an up date on battling the snow.
    winter use is next, 4months of practical use in all winter conditions. then proof of concept will be done. after that, time to group up some players that r interested in mass producing solarized community transporter.
    10k+ people have seen the light dragon in use, come on rossi, still waiting.
    personally it doesn`t matter who builds them as long as they get out there to lessen the carbon fuel use and helping to create an unlimited energy global society.

    now i don`t need to buy fuel to travel or run the home, kind of a better option than the e-cat or hot cat.
    solarized e-trikes and trailers would be ideal for 3rd world countries, low cost mobile energy platforms that tap free daily energy.

    • jacob

      What one can do when inspired ,my best of luck to you.

    • Tony76

      Great story.
      Are you able to share the design, plans, list of components?

    • Barry

      Go for it sapain, that’s what we need, less talking and more hand on.

  • Karl

    At the time when Rossi initially headed towards E-Cat Home units, I did send him a suggestion that he can allow persons that have made a pre-order of an E-Cat to make an investment.

    Such investment could be done after the technology is verified and in the order or a few multiples of the cost of each E-Cat.

    The idea aimed at making him make him more resilient and create funds for the needed expansion of the production at a fairly early stage of his business expansion. Later on when the production volume is demanding larger funding, the technology is likely accepted by the main streams thus it will be easy to create additional funding.

    This would also offer possible Win-Win scenario with a lot of sales men (small part owners) all over the globe.

    • Do you remember the first computers used at home?

      Like the IMSAI 8080 MITS and the Altair 8800?

      Sold as kits they were … potential for sub-assembly sales with the heart of the E-Cat for smaller industrial or home use (the E-Cat would be GREAT for off-grid applications) the same way?

      .

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSAI_8080

    • Voodoo

      Karl, You don’t understand situation.

      Mr. Inventor simply don’t want sell his Home-Cats.

      He masked this under excuse of certifier etc.

      If he really want sell million Home-cats, he may certify
      in some soft rule country – for example India, China
      or Bangladesh or so where is market for 300 million home-cats.

      His real fear is IP, so he simply not want sell home-cats,
      even for 1MW units he want cherry-pick-up strategy, only
      “qualified” customers.

      I have hypothesis that home-cats preorder theatre was only for
      bank cradit or some investors purpose. No real imminent need
      to sell

      • Voodoo on October 16, 2012 at 5:32 pm:

        “…

        His real fear is IP, so he simply not want sell home-cats,
        even for 1MW units he want cherry-pick-up strategy, only
        “qualified” customers.”

        I can only guess at what the ‘home’ HHO (Brown’s gas et al) experimenter folks would do with this … better to have this in the hands of industry first, rather than ‘open sale’ to the public where there can be little to no ‘guidance’ or oversight of its use (or abuse).

        Once an accident happens, the regulators will be ALL over this. Does anybody recall what happened when boilers started to come into widespread industrial use for instance and there was little inspection or ‘quality’ control and accidents were the norm until regs were written to inspect boilers and license operators?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiler_explosions

        And see “Key Safety Developments” section.

        _Jim

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Discussions are nice for people who have time to participate in them, but what really matters now, in the case of the Hot Cat, is independent proof from a reliable authority that the device can safely produce cheap, pollution-free energy at room temperature. My understanding is that this proof now exists and we only have to wait a few weeks for the authenticated report of the independent authority who conducted the test. Once that is out, we’re suddenly living in a transformed world. Moreover, at that point the amazing truth is established and out and no one then has the power to suppress it. Am I wrong?

    • LCD

      It depends on the credibility of the report. In the academic world, replicability and credibility go hand in hand.

      Is this a one-of report. Is there another independent team also conducting tests that can corroborate? Will there be a self sustaining or high COP demo that is live and can be seen to back up the single entity report?

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Notice that I used the words “authenicated” and “authority” in my post. To be clear about it, I expect that the independent (parallel) test of the Hot Cat was carried out by a university or other institution that is universally recognized as a reputable authority in the field. Otherwise why bother?

        I look forward to seeing their report.

    • Andrew Macleod

      “no one has the power”. I would hope, however I have lost all faith in our governments and leaders to do the right thing. They have suppressed many technologies over the years not because they are dangerous but because they may effect their profits. This is happening in every facet of socity from cures to cancer to cheap energy.

      • LilyLover

        How does one mafia insult the other? By calling him a soldier.
        How does the other retaliate? By calling him a politician.

      • jacob

        you got that right,it is very messed up,to the point of no return.
        Hope the republicans don’t win the election,that would quarantee another oil war for nothing,just profits,LENR does not fit in their plans,they prefer to unjustly invade a county at to bring democraty at Gunpoint, a involving millions of healthy innocent people like us,to devastation.

        • buffalo

          makes no dif jacob.republicans and dems both dangled by same puppeteers

          • jacob

            I guess so

          • Barry

            It’s true, there is a deep shadow side to the business of politics, but republicans are much more funded by big oil and vote in big oil’s agendas more often as well.

    • daniel maris

      No, Fibber, I think what matters is “visible” marketing. Once we have that – and happy customers – all doubt evaporates.

      • Omega z

        daniel

        I have posted to george before that even if a reputable University lends their name to the E-cat, That MSM will probably ignore it.

        When it should become non ignorable, they will play it down as decades from being of use.

        In fact, I think the Only University that could ignite instant MSM interest in LENR would be if MIT put their Name to it. As they were the primary destroyer/suppressor of it, I don’t see this happening.

  • clovis

    Hi, everyone.
    It’s good to get reassured every once in a while, I think that Mr. Rossi is up to the task,before him. maybe if we use our collective minds, the internet, and all nesseary means, to make the e-cat tech, go viral if any harm comes to our fearless leader.—smile

  • Filip47

    The fail of a third party test is the only thing I blame Mr. Rossi. Why is it so difficult, Mr Rossi? Why? Why???? …
    It must be impressive to just watch a COP over 50 coming out of a Hotcat in SSM for an hour, it must be a so impressive release of energy that you don’t even have to measure it. And he even claims a higher COP, not stable but still worth showing for a short period.
    I will patiently wait until the end of the year, after that I think Mr Rossi will lose all credibility. It’s becoming very very annoying.

    • Stephen

      I agree. Actually it’s also becoming very very boring…

      Me too, I don’t understand how you can have COP 50+ and people discussing whether it’s real or not. FIFTY PLUS!! Is the sun real? Do we need to discuss about that? What would you do with somebody telling you the sun does not exist? Call for an ambulance? Maybe a COP 50 is not as self-evident as the sun shining in the sky but… it’s pretty self-evident, I think.

      Yep, this claimed effect is so huge that you don’t need to measure anything. Probably you can shut the door of the room and compare with the effect of a standard electric heater fed with the same power! … and just ask yourself “does it feel hotter?” 🙂 It should feel way hotter!!! And anybody denying this should be easy to deride as an obvious idiot…

      Still, there are third parties even saying that maybe there’s no excess heat at all… and we are here discussing whether they are right or not. So in my opinion something’s dead wrong here.

      • Stephen on October 16, 2012 at 5:22 pm:

        “…

        Me too, I don’t understand how you can have COP 50+ and people discussing whether it’s real or not. FIFTY PLUS!! Is the sun real?”

        Maybe they are awaiting on the development of an infinite energy sink?

        After all, infinite ‘source’ could require an infinite ‘sink’ (in energy parlance or terms).

        (only partial sarc)

        _Jim

        • Mark

          In reply to Herb Gillis at 10/16/2012 , 5:02PM,
          Rossi just said that during 6 months
          of running E-CAT produced 18MWh.
          It gives us power production 4KW.
          The last Rossi’s report says that average
          power consumption is 2.4KW.
          It means that COP is about 1.7
          Please, correct me if it is wrong.

          • The 4 kW is some older reactor. He has built reactors of many sizes and geometries over the years. He couldn’t have possibly run the present HotCat model for 6 months since it was built less than a month ago.

    • Pachu

      Lot of people said the same things 1 year ago.

      • Filip47

        I know, I was there a year ago, still he manages to keep people sharp and curious, I remember the weeks before october 28th 2011, there’s the same tension in the air now, waiting for the third party test, I hope we finally get rewarded for our patience.

      • Stephen

        Of course… he has a “gift” in a way… it must be hard to keep the interst up in this way while providing just tons of words and promises, plus few widely criticized shows which are not proving much. I think this is a story that tells more about human psychology rather than about cold fusion.

        Unfortunately (this is my view of course) the overlap between people with this kind of gift and genuine inventors is normally very low… not to say negligible. Unfortunately his track record is also not very reassuring.

        What to say: let’s hope I am wrong! 😉

    • Jimr

      I agree. I have been following this since Feb 2011, if there is not a reliable , verified test by at least one reputable firm, by the end of the year, and not a” Joe’s septic service and storm window co,”‘ you can forget Rossi.

      • Jimr on October 16, 2012 at 9:34 pm:

        “I agree. I have been following this since Feb 2011, if there is not a reliable , verified test …”

        … you are not a cash-paying customer with a demonstrated need to heat bulk quantities of water (as in a cooking operation or other industrial user of heated water) under conditions that can be easily controlled.

        I guess this is just a really, really hard concept to grasp.

        _Jim

  • Bill Nichols

    As a past program manager, if he has something this is a reasoned approach. Not the thinking of scam artist.

    2 cents.

  • Mike888

    Bravo Bravo Dr Rossi, this man has fought with the lions and has WON !

    • Robert Mockan

      Except for that huge smart lion lurking in the shadows. You know, the one that wants to be king of the beasts, to rule all the other lions. What is that name? Oh, yes, now I recall. The name of the smart lion, the one waiting to ponce on Rossi and tear him to shreds, at the right moment, is…INSANE OLIGARCHS!

  • Ivan_cev

    Markus K.
    October 15th, 2012 at 3:45 PM
    Dear Dr. Rossi,

    thank you for the presentation. Very interesting!
    I was thinking about your control principle with heating resistors and i don’t understand how the system can work:
    Because every stable control system needs a negative feedback loop.

    But from what i know about your Ecat, there is a positive feedback loop: if the reaction in the core begins to heat, the temperature rises and as the temp rises the reaction increases. There is no negative feedback that would reduce temperature if it goes above the target temperature, because you have no cooling, only heating resistors.
    In my understanding electrical heating with hot resistors can not apply a negative feedback loop once the reactor becomes overly hot and needs to be turned down. It’s like if i want to control a wood heater which i ignited with some paper, by burning less additional paper.
    The control can only work by being able to subtract a kind of energy the process needs (in the case of burners either the fuel or oxygen).

    And since you do not inject the H2 from outside, the regulation of H2 can be excluded.

    But on the other hand, the pictures from your Hot-Ecat did show only connections for heating resistors and no other electrical stimulation (like coaxial cables for a high freuqency wave generation inside the core).

    From my understanding of control systems and from what we have seen and learned from you, your system cannot run stable because there is no negative feedback loop.
    Offering a heating system only heat to regulate it, is against the principle of positive feedback loops.

    Andrea Rossi
    October 16th, 2012 at 2:27 AM
    Dear Markus K.:
    I cannot answer to your question.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.


    This is the only question I need an answer for!
    but off course, It cannot be answered.
    ….

    • There is nothing mysterious.
      Assume cooling power Pc(T)=A*T^4, anomalous heating power P(T)=B*(T-T0)^3.5 (T0=273.15+100 K), P0=driver. Plot the curves Pc(T) and P0+P(T), playing around with different values of A,B and P0. Coefficient A he can select by the area of the reactor, coefficient B by the thickness of fuel layer applied. One can get the curves to intersect in many cases at some point Tx > T0. The COP is then P(Tx)/P0. One can easily get COP 3,4, 6, etc., but beyond 10 the curves are nearly tangential at the intersection point which implies danger for thermal runaway unless some other controls are applied.

      • Correction: the COP is 1+P(Tx)/P0.

        • ivan_cev

          I agree with you, as if the cop is close to 1 the functions intersect, but after COP 10 this is very difficult, some people calculated COP up to 17 with the data of the report.
          This is why I said the control in base of this functions are not possible.

      • Mark

        Dear Sir,
        Thanks for the clear up about stability
        of the system.
        Do You think that the points of intersections
        are LONG TIME stable,i.e. the two processes exactly
        balance each other in some area for a significant
        amount of time and not runaway after a few seconds?
        Also, how do You come with the anomalous
        heating formula P(T) =B .(T-T0) ^3.5 ?
        Is it from Widom-Larsen or other hypothesis?
        Please, can You point to some university site
        where it is possible to calculate the curves
        playing with A and B factors ?
        Thanks!

      • Mark

        Dear Pekka,
        The both curves have the same
        shape… there is no zone where
        one is concave and the other convex,
        the derivatives don’t change sign.
        Please, can You elaborate a little
        more, Thanks!

    • Omega z

      Ivan

      Most of us are curious about this, but Rossi answering this would give his competitors clues as to the inner workings.

      I believe the additional heat drive is to smooth out heat variances/cold spots that develop during SSM that cause instability issues. Possibly even reactivating some zones within the Core.

      I know from reading your posts that you believe the heat should be uniformly radiated internally. Most would Logically come to this conclusion. In Reality it is not.

      Having worked with Steal Carbonizing furnaces I know. Employees shown the internals seeing 6″ thick by 8″ drop down protruding Arches in several locations, near everyone thought they were for support.

      I on the other hand concluded they were Heat Zone control. Reasoning, the Entire Ceiling was arched. Unlikely additional support was needed. The # of arches coincided with the different heat zones. Aside from Fire brick & insulation, there was also water jackets for each zone to help even the temp in each zone. The unexpected surprise for me was the Temperature range at 10″ apart of the thermocouples on either side of the Arch. From 1500` on 1 side & 1900` on the other stable. Less then a foot apart. This can actually be increased to a 700` variance on that specific unit.

      The E-cat Core can also have temp variances due to our manufacturing processes. It doesn’t evenly distribute heat. Metals work well for most of what we use them for, but all are flawed & impure.

      I had an Acquaintance of a metallurgist years ago. Known as 1 of the Top 10 of the World at that time. His opinion was that of all the manipulations we have of metals thru history, Metallurgy is in it’s infancy. It will not enter Maturity until we develop the means of zero gravity. Whether man made or manufacturing in Null zones in space. Until then it will always be imperfect.

      • ivan_cev

        This is very interesting but you talk about large furnaces, the ecat is just small and compact, diff in temp may exist but has to be small as the devices is not big and the temp high.

  • georgehants

    From the BBC —-
    Energy policy talks due among senior cabinet members
    Senior members of the cabinet will meet later to formulate a policy for dealing with the UK’s future energy demands.
    David Cameron and Nick Clegg will be discussing ways to keep costs down with the chancellor, chief secretary to the Treasury and energy secretary.
    The decisions will help frame the new Energy Bill expected within weeks.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19973419

  • georgehants

    In amongst all the events going on these days, I like to keep in mind that science has in no way officially accepted the reality of Cold Fusion.
    Until establishment science comes out with a full apology for Pons and Fleischman and clearly admits that for 23 years it has displayed nothing but total incompetence and an amazing disregard for all scientific principles, then on these pages and rightly as the story is released in the main-line media, the justified attacks condemning the “conspiracy” of silence and denial will continue.
    Until this failure is independently investigated and those concerned brought into the light, then all of science and all scientists will suffer from the reflection of this crime against humanity.

    • Stephen

      I am sure nothing will be able to stop the acceptance of CF, once there is a reproducible evidence. Unfortunately, we are not really there… I perfectly understand people having doubts and of course there is no crime being perpetrated. Rather, I am curious about this “new fire” initiative.

      I have a question coming from genuine curiosity: what is the source of income of AR? This whole eCat campaign must be quite costy… is the money coming from the Leonardo corporation? And what can I buy from them (beyond the eCats, of course)? Beyond the usual bla bla, is there an email address I can write to in order to have a formal quotation for anything sellable? A product, some sort of service… Or even a credible website with a list of products and services (again, no eCats, please)? Just curious, maybe there is.

      • phlatbeer

        Stephan, from the very first time LENR, CF or whatever was visited, is it that that same flame like the Olympic torch that has been used in exhibiting this “novel lattice” phenomenon? Time and again we hear X, Y, Z group/person has produced an EROI of 1+, from different reports, scientists,and at different locations etc. Is that not evidence of reproducibility? Or do you mean Bruillion, NASA make another 1Mw e-cat? I cannot really see the sense building another similar 1Mw e-cat given the R&D purportedly under way at present that gives over 1:1000 My question then, is what is reproducible evidence to you.?

        • Stephen

          It’s very simple phlatbeer: just a well-defined recipe with a well-defined expected outcome, that anybody can reproduce if he/she wants. Even sth with a EROI of 1.1 and zero commercial value. But it should be clear, in terms of procedure as well as in terms of outcomes. Something real and solid to discuss about.

          I have not seen this happening yet. Many people saying “I got it, somehow” is not a reproducible evidence. It’s just a repeated, but unreproducible, evidence. I agree there are many reports out there, and I hope a reproducible recipe will come out. However, I have still not seen it.

          If there’s no reproducible recipe then it’s all just about words and trust. I could also claim I have a working LENR reactor in my garage with COP of… 100! It’s running, in this very moment: try to prove it’s not real. I could even arrange a couple of shows with some witnesses, probably. See? The fact is that you have to trust my word (and you should not need that) and indeed it’s me who should prove my claim is genuine, not you who should prove that I am telling BS (btw, no need for that: I don’t even have a garage ;)…).

          • HeS

            Hmm. Do you belive that Higgs boson exists? Scientists from CERN announce that. How “anybody can reproduce if he/she wants.”. And what do you think about 1000 other invention not reproduced by “anybody”?

            Everybody (and you:) can reproduce Celani reactor, but this takes time, work and money.

          • Ivan_Cev

            Not accurate, two teams did the experiments separated and both teams arrived to same conclusion, so was replicated, and can be replicated again by you, if you have the right degree, and have access to the accelerator.
            LENR has to be reproduced by separate teams the experiment should be reproducible and the report peer review.

          • Stephen

            HeS, I actually strongly hope that there will exist a “Celani kit” to reproduce CF anywhere by anybody. This is why I am glad about the new fire attempt. If they succeed they would make me very happy.

            Higgs. The recipe and expected results are there and open… the fact that it’s enormously expensive to redo the test is another problem. The key thing is that the theory/experiment *can* be verified and, in case, falsified. Anyway, I believe in the Higgs just as long I don’t see an evidence against it. So far, this is the only evidence available and indeed in this case mine is not even a particularly strong belief. This is not exactly the situation with these claimed reactors… we have seen mixed results and a lot of secrecy.

            About inventions. Not sure what you’re talking about here. If you mean something I can buy and it indeed works… yes, I will believe it works. Probably though I won’t fully believe *how* it works as long as the thing is secret and not reproducible openly. Anyway, no problem, the day I can buy a LENR reactor I will believe it works, somehow.

          • phlatbeer

            Sorry Stephen,I don’t buy your argument

  • Voodoo

    It looks like Defekalion have new spark plugs with survivability greater then 2 hours now:

    todays desperate “news”:

    “Our move is in progress as well as the rest of our scheduled tasks”

  • john29302

    so the delay is as long as pinochios nose…so now the investors are putting money on the table and the speeches are presedential in tone and rhetoric involves money now. no product has been revealed. notta. none. inuendo…talk..even mental midgets actually proccessing the energy in and out and calluding on blog sites about what the device does on a scientific level. but no device that can perform has been presented. but the reasons for no device are aplenty. if you think big oil will let this guy cut their profits down from a million an hour down to a couple hundred thousand…you should continue doing your bad science. it aint gonna happen. the money trail is king. all else is a bumsteer.