Defkalion GT Publishes Test Results from Unnamed Group

Defkalion Green Technologies have published documents and video from ‘preliminary’ testing that has been done by an unnamed international group in DGT laboratories. Documents and videos can be seen at the announcement here.

DGT videos of testing:

Exec Sum of Defkalion Test Review – Sept 2012 (1)

2012-09-07_Test Report Validation_Signed_No Names (1)

  • Tx

    Not sure whether Defkalion let the names under the black stripes deliberately or by mistake, but funny enough, they are still there. It is enough to mark and copy the blacked spaceholders and copy them somewhere else, and you canm see the name is “Michael A. Nelson” (at the top) from USA (farther below in the text).

    • Kim G. Patterson

      That T-shirt is fresh out of the package.

      You can tell by the wrinkle pattern.

      Still in its package wrap with cardboard

      20 minutes before video. Its a dead give away.

      Respect
      Kim

      • ivan_cev

        who is the guy with the Tshirt?

      • Mario Marq

        lol… perhaps he got all sweat up by standing at very hot devices, and someone got him a t-shirt bought at some corner shop…

        Its a “dead intelligence” give away! lol

  • So much to read, Frank!

    The second video is still uploading.

  • Tx

    The name under the black stripe is “Michael A. Nelson”, and further below under the blacked text, there is “to the US”. Just select the black boxes and copy them somewhere else to see the content below them.

    • Meta

      A “Mike” is spoken to in the video.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    The report was signed by Michael A. Nelson, from NASA. The “censored” portions in the 52 kB PDF file can be copy/pasted elsewhere to reveal their content.

    I find very positive that he was pretty much convinced that the excess heat shown by DGT is real.

    • artefact

      In the first video the T-shirt is new. You still see the wrinkles..

    • If one opens the “Exec Sum …” file by Evince, it displays as window title: NASA_NRL_Exec Sum of Defkalion Test Review – Sept 2012_1_. And the “obscured” portions are readily seen by painting over them with a mouse as Ivan pointed out. So we get to know that Nelson brought a cooling fluid sample back to the US after the measurement. I’m not entirely convinced that these leaks are accidental.

      • LCD

        The additional metadata clearly shows it too. NASA_NRL_Exec Sum of Defkalion Test Review – Sept 2012_1_

        The question I have is when was the test done?

      • Ged

        Very interesting observations. If indeed NASA is helping them evaluate things and confirming, that would fully restore and then some their reputation. I hope it is true!

    • Peter_Roe

      People reading meta-information from photos, and now ‘de-censoring’ PDFs – its difficult to keep secrets any more! Pekka may be correct though – this could have been a ‘secret’ intended to be found out (that would put the T shirt in a new light, or possibly it was a gift from Nelson). Nelson may not be pleased if it was him who requested the blanking-out.

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        By reading the latest posts on ECN it appears that these two files are not those originally attached to that DGT forum post. It seems that the original ones contained visible full names. These files have been replaced with “blacked out” versions.

        My observation: if you noticed, look at the URL:

        http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/download/file.php?id=30

        id=30 and id=31 are the attachment IDs of the files currently available. For some reason IDs 28 and 29 appear to have been deleted. ID 27 belongs to an image posted by DGT in a different thread months ago.

      • ivan_cev

        are you able to publish the desensored doc. ubuntu seems not to have the tools for it.

    • Pachu

      lol, yeah doc properties says:

      Microsoft Word – NASA_NRL_Exec Sum of Defkalion Test Review – Sept 2012

  • Mickey

    Gary Wright has just published an article giving a current and up-to-date peek into how and why the USPTO is rejecting cold fusion/LENR patents. See –

    Santilli’s Battle with the United States Patent Office

    http://ecatworldnews.com/

    • Peter_Roe

      Again, and checked this time. Your post is no more than a sleazy ‘bait and switch’ tactic designed to send people to your nasty little anti-Rossi website.

      • Mickey

        Gary Publishes good articles about topics you won’t find anywhere else. Must read where they are published.
        .
        That is a very interesting article about the Santilli LENR patent, up to date with October 18 USPTO filings, etc.
        .
        Sorry you don’t like that.
        .
        Maybe you can get Gary to publish his articles somewhere else? Give that a try instead of bitching all the time.
        .

        • Andrew Macleod

          Good articles you cant find anywhere else? Try asking Gary for the same proof he DEMANDS from Rossi.

        • Peter_Roe

          OK, I’ll give that a try: Gary, could you publish your cr*p somewhere else please?

      • Max S

        Irrational denial does not help, sometimes it is advisable to be open-minded.
        Whether you like it or not, the patent analysis of Gary W. is plausible.
        It is very likely Rossi may face the same destiny, for similar reasons. The issue is lack of substantiation, and lack of evidence to support the claims.

        • ivan_cev

          There is still no clear evidence of Rossi, DGT, even LENR still in the way to replication. so there is room for sceptical views, also hope that LENR is real is valid, but a complete blind believe is not acceptable, unless you are a protagonist and have seen the anomalous heat yourself then no one can challenge you observations, but you must show us how to replicate your experiences.

      • GreenWin

        Per earlier comment – fanboy-troll espousing irrelevant hearsay. BTW, the USPTO is one of the crumbling ivory towers of old orthodoxy. It’s time is limited.

    • captain kirk

      Please Mickey (Gary Wright?) NO MORE FROM THAT MORON GARY WRIGHT Fine… you are very sure Rossi is a fraud and his Journal is phony…. Anyone who is positive that he is a fraud or is an energy GOD at this point with the information currently available is dumb… Rossi may be a fraud but when I examine the evidence I think there is a very good possibility that the E-cat is real with a COP of 6 or more and will be on the market and being delivered within thin the next 6 months My confidence level 70%

      • Mickey

        I am Mickey – quit calling me Gary.

        • Ged

          Then don’t advertise for Gary with bait and switch tactics like some sock puppet, and then we might believe you have your own independent mind.

      • HeS

        @:”Rossi may be a fraud …. and will be on the market and being delivered within thin the next 6 months My confidence level 70%”

        No. This technology is so revolutionary that it will be hide, and any government will apply it to their own needs. Why would they sell on the open market?

        • ivan_cev

          To….help to raise living standards of billions of humans living in poverty!
          Every day a technology like LENR is delayed thousands die of hunger…you do not care?
          This is way LENR must be proven, Rossi must show its game if any, Celani must be replicated.etc.etc.

          Stop this believing for believing we must demand prove!

          There is also some evidence of cover up, seems the big names do not want go get it name involved with LENR.

          Once LENR if official science. It will fast explode to change our world for better, it may be some transitional pain in some sectors, but overall humanity will benefit.

    • Andrew Macleod

      Gary’s bum hole gets jealous of the crap that comes out his mouth.

  • Barry

    Hmm… COP>1 (page 16). Wonder what value will be filled in in the final report. Oh well, sounds like progress anyway. Good luck Defkalion.

    • artefact

      DGT says on their forum:
      http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4143

      The objective of this test was to get only COP>1.1 with a noise to signal ratio less than 10%. We got COP>3 very easy with noise to signal less than 4%. Note that the tested reactor R5 was not designed for maximum COP but to get maximum lab safety and control /understanding over the phenomena.

    • Pachu

      The Executive Summary says “the reactor was operating well in excess of a COP of 3.”

  • Michael A. Nelson may be known to many followers. He did a presentation at the 22 September 2011 LENR workshop held at NASA’s Glenn Research Center in Cleveland, OH.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djBIWTsnwjY

  • Fyodor

    Perhaps an enterprising journalist like Mr. Acland could reach out to Mr. Nelson for confirmation.

    • artefact

      an interview with him would be fantastic!

  • georgehants

    If Mr. Rossi responds in kind we could have more confirmation.

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    On ecatnews.com the original document is posted without the blanked signatures/Names:

    http://ecatnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2012-09-07_Test-protocol-signed.pdf

    • artefact

      Michael A. Nelson
      On behalf of Dr. Michael Melich

      • Jim

        google search on Michael Melich, from newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/3616ideologies.shtml

        Jan 31, 2011 – Michael Melich is a research professor with the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif. Melich has had a long history in Department of …

      • This is not good for Andrea Rossi… Prof. Melich is on the JONP board of advisers.
        http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?page_id=2

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          Is anybody willing to ask Rossi about this?

        • Ged

          It isn’t necessarily bad for Rossi. Actually, that’s really cool that there is such a connection between the groups.

          Remember, DGT’s LENR method is completely different from anything we’ve seen so far (as far as we know). Their hyperion and the E-cat could easily coexist.

        • GreenWin

          A whimsical equation:

          NASA * NRL * DARPA * Andrea Rossi + JONP + SPAWAR + DGT / Michael Melich – Kirvit = C-BLP??

          Join the team.

          • That’s about as hard to comprehend as my Village People joke a few stories back 🙂

          • georgehants

            Prof. Azimuth
            October 20th, 2012 at 3:10 AM
            Ing. Rossi
            If the hotcat was in SSM for 1 hour at temperature of 1030-1070°C what’s the reason to stop SSM?
            Hot regards
            Prod. Azimuth
            —–
            Andrea Rossi
            October 20th, 2012 at 4:18 AM
            Dear Prof. Azimuth:
            For safety reasons we always need the drive.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.

          • Peter_Roe

            I believe Rossi has said as much before, in response to a similar question. The implication would appear to be that without the ‘drive’ the reaction would become unsafe, which must mean it would overheat. We have never seen any indication that this may be the case (output in SSM seems to remain constant) and more importantly, it would involve a safety issue in the event of loss of external power. I’m not sure I believe this statement – frankly I think it may be a ‘Rossi red herring’ like the COP(max)=6 story, intended to downplay just how far Rossi has progressed with the ‘hot cat’.

          • I tend to agree, Peter. The drive could always be replaced by some active mechanism which reduces cooling when needed, such as movable infrared shields surrounding the reactor, or connectable thermal bridges between some inner and outer walls. I believe that such devices could be made safe, e.g., by having mechanical springs which return them to the “cool” position in case electric power is lost. Bimetals, memory metals and magnetic solenoids could be among the component technologies involved. The high temperature would make some challenges, but not formidable ones.

            However, the COP seems to be about 20 now. Maybe it’s “almost high enough” already, from the commercial perspective. Perhaps reducing the startup time would now be more relevant than improving the COP (generally speaking, it depends of course heavily on the application).

          • GreenWin

            Peter, even with a 4-6 hour startup/shutdown time – with “refueling” only needed twice a year, this seems minor. It is certain that the SSM continuous operation time frame will expand beyond 1 – 2 hours before drive is needed. It appears to be more a matter of practice than mechanical need.

          • clovis

            HI, guys
            It seem to me that it’s a balancing act if the core reaches a certain temp it is some how brought
            back to standard mode, until the core cools, then back to ssm mode, and start up from a cold core takes some time, just a guess. – smile

          • Peter_Roe

            I agree GW. I’m pretty sure Rossi has an e-tiger by the tail and is trying to pretend it is a fluffy e-kitten.

          • Omega Z

            Pekka & those that follow.

            Rossi said there was safety concerns for high COP. We know now it’s because of Neutrons.

            I’ll assume he has legitimate reasons for the drive do to safety considerations. We’ll find out in time.

            Eventually I expect most of these concerns to be overcome or minimized. It is a work in process.

          • I could believe that they saw neutrons, since they measured them (hopefully correctly). But I don’t believe it was due to COP directly. The COP is about thermal design, whereas neutron emission or its absence depends on local conditions (temperature, pressure etc). I don’t think that there could be a true universal connection between neutrons and COP.

          • Omega Z

            Pekka

            Didn’t mean to indicate a direct connection.
            More indirect as an effect trying to obtain higher COP.

            More in line with what you suggest. I was thinking possibly Hydrogen release not keeping up for neutron capture. Possibly connected to temperature/pressure in long SSM. However your credentials would probably make you a better judge of that then I.

          • Loop

            Here is OCR’d in docx filetype format you can copy and paste the text
            http://www.mediafire.com/view/?cj5d1hmcv07br3s

          • Filip48

            Well, Popsci just brought us back to reality.

          • Filip48

            Well maybe the article in Popsci is too skeptical to post a copy on e-catworld, pardon my sarcasm. Why is it we only hear the good news from Rossi himself? if he goes on like this he will dissapear in ‘a puff of smoke’ by the end of the year.
            No one takes him seriously, and that’s bad, even when his device is really working.
            Maybe e-catworld should consider changing into lenr-world.
            Otherwise e-catworld will also dissapear in ‘a puff of smoke’.
            I can’t hide my frustration, sorry.
            Most of you must have steel nerves.

          • admin

            I’m not able to put up the popsci article here unfortunately, because of copyright restrictions. I do plan on posting a review, however.

          • Andrew Macleod

            The fact that Rossi isn’t being taken seriously is the only reason we still hear about it, I don’t think it’s a “bad” thing.

          • Peter_Roe

            My feeling too. There is nothing much to be gained by publicity at this stage, other maybe than making it slightly more difficult for TPTB to stomp on Rossi. The same applies to definitive 3rd party verification that so many are demanding – it is probably best to leave things a bit inconclusive at the moment.

          • Robert Mockan

            Steel nerves. Yep, that is true.
            How come? Long years of experience,
            actually developed long before Rossi.

            But you should know that if the Rossi event
            bothers you then do not investigate research done by other people, like (just
            for example):

            Eugene Podkletnov
            Ruggero Santelli
            Fran De Aquino
            Stanislav Adamenko
            Vladimir Vysotskii
            Nikolai Kozyrev
            David Anderson

            By the way, the last researcher in that list
            developed methods to control time.
            (Here is a convenient link):

            http://www.examiner.com/article/second-whistleblower-emerges-to-confirm-reality-of-time-travel

            Do not believe it? You can investigate these
            people yourself and study everything they have published, as I have, and you will either develop
            nerves of steel, or protect your sanity by
            withdrawing from a world that is much stranger
            than we can imagine, that has many people
            in it that seem like Andre Rossi.

          • Omega Z

            Robert

            I have learned to keep an open mind on all subjects no matter how unlikely. Fact can be stranger then Fiction.

            I’ve watched Documentaries where the Guest (In Position of Power) is supposed to blow the lid off. Then tell you nothing. One in particular was (IPOP) involved with Skunk/Black projects said nothing that wasn’t already known. But ended with a teaser.

            Imagine the most advanced Aircraft you believe is possible that we could build. Now- Were 50 years beyond that. I have no doubt, as most of the Stealth & advanced tech we see today that most see as amazing was being developed in the 60’s. The SR-71 was started in the late 50’s.

            The Statement by Bill Clinton when asked if he checked into info about UFO’s. His Response was they told him His Security Clearance wasn’t High Enough to know.

            Or the accidental conversation caught between G. Bush Sr. chatting about UFO’s with someone & he said and you Don’t Know the Half of it.

            And I’ll note that People will say you can’t keep something that Big or Amazing secret. The fact is the more Amazing & Unbelievable, The Easier it is to keep secret. Most people are close minded. Their Job keeping it secret is already over half done.

            And how do you keep people who know from leaking the Info, is Easy. They want to stay in the inner loop. A far greater tool then threats to life or family. Being pushed out of the inner loop.

          • I don’t think that anything really fancy exists behind closed doors, I mean something that would look like magic to us. At least I have always been surprised by how mundate things are at heart when one gets to know them.

            I suspect that rumors of government labs developing secret stuff are mostly just rumors spread by the government itself to make them look more powerful. Not too different from V. Putin’s incredible adventures, and so on. I believe that to a good approximation, the emperor has no clothes. They never did in the past, why would it be different nowadays.

            One must beware of falling victim to propaganda. People designing it are professionals.

          • georgehants

            Pekka, are you keeping up with Quantum research.
            Do you think some of the Quantum effects look like magic to pre-Quantum scientists and the population as a whole.
            Is faster than light, information exchange by Nature not a little like Magic.
            How about things being in many places at once.
            Is it Magical that our Minds effect Quantum outcomes.

          • Different thing. I meant that secret science is probably not magic in comparison to open science.

          • georgehants

            Pekka, not different I think, all just science.
            The Quantum is more hidden than Cold Fusion.
            It is almost as hidden as NDE etc.
            Do you agree that the real science effects of the Quantum would seem like magic to scientists who are unaware of the phenomenon I have listed above.
            Are you aware of the phenomenon I have listed above.

          • GH: I am aware! But it’s all known in open mainstream quantum mechanics. (Many are ignorant about it, as you often say, but that’s another matter.) I used “magic” in Clarke’s sense “a sufficiently advanced tech looks like magic to a person not knowing it”. – Yes, I agree that e.g. superconductivity looks like magic if one doesn’t know quantum.

          • Redford

            popsci is like every vulgarisation review of no weight at all when it comes to determine what is and isn’t a reality. What we need are peer review paper and replication. Either Defkalion has that, either they don’t. Rossi has already a bit of 3rd party and it’s supposed to consolidate soon. It’s not exagerating to say that this – 2 3rd parties specialist spending month on tests and publishing those under their name – alone should weight way more to any reasonable mind than one not specialised journalist spending a few days.

          • Filip48

            Also true, a university and its academics have a reputation to hold, they wont go overnight, before they release a positive result of a revolutionairy device as the Hotcat, they have to be 100% sure, maybe they will ask Rossi to set up other reactors in different places under different curcumstances. I think Rossi is going to have to pay for the tests also. It’s going to take atleast several months, even a whole year.
            Not one famous university is going to take any chances to lose credibility and the chance to make a fool out of themselfs.

          • clovis

            Hi,Flip.
            Mr. rossi has said he could give a s_it about accidemic fools. we know how they handle things , just look at F&P, THEY TRASHED THEIR WORK AND THEIR CAREARES; AND THESE CLOWNS WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE ONE OF THESE DAYS.
            Mr. rossi will let the market do it work, thank you.

          • GreenWin

            “Credibility” is BS if the matter is volatile. For example Nobel laureate Carlo Rubia’s paper on He4 in Cold Fusion experiments was submitted to 41 different science journals and never published. i.e. when the truth is too hard for PTP to handle, they will hide it.

            The threat to a University is the repercussions of reporting the truth. Which confirms a deep, corrosive illness in science.

          • GreenWin

            Hmmm, paging Dr. Freud? PTB… not P.

          • Robert Mockan

            Schwinger was the 1965 Noble Prize recipient in physics, and arguably one of the leading theoretical physicists of the 20th Century. His 8 cold fusion papers about theory to explain it in 1989 were rejected by the American Physical Society, and he resigned in protest. It was the first time ANY of his papers had ever been rejected. He had this to say:

            ““The pressure for conformity is enormous. I have experienced it in editors’ rejection of submitted papers, based on venomous criticism of anonymous referees. The replacement of impartial reviewing by censorship will be the death of science.”

            (His theory papers were not published until years later, and today are the basis for the leading theories about how cold fusion works).

            Norman Ramsey received the 1989 Noble Prize in Physics. He was co-chairman of the ERAB panel evaluating cold fusion for funding in 1989. He had to threaten to resign from the position if the other panel members followed through with an agenda to cut all future cold fusion research. They finally made a small concession for very slight federal funding, but without significant effect because the funds went to hot fusion research centers.

            This kind of censorship has been going on from 1989 to the present.

            As Clovis says, the clowns who have delayed the development of LENR technology should be held accountable.
            Lack of energy kills people. To delay energy development knowingly is murder.
            A conservative estimate is the people accountable for delay since 1989 have murdered, at least, millions of people.

          • georgehants

            + 100

      • ivan_cev

        Why why why? Michael Nelson will sign in behalf of Dr Melich?
        I expected On behalf or National Naval Institute, or on behalf of Nasa. etc.
        Who is representing Dr Melich?

  • clovis

    Hi,Guys
    If defkalion is still ran by its founder, then all i have to say is i don’t trust anything they say, once burned twice shy.
    Ask, Dr. rossi how he feels about these guys, not trust worthy.
    just my opinion,

    • artefact

      They are very open (more than Rossi) and what do you think will Rossi say about competitors who got at least the idea from him.
      Your opinion my opinion

      I give both of them a chance.

      • artefact

        the “not equal to” between your opinion and my opinion got deleted

      • clovis

        Hi,Artefact
        If you figure something out, work out most of the problems, and fund a project yourself,you ask for some help to build and distribute your product, and that company try to sabotage your work,
        you then drop that co. flat.
        Is that not what happened, correct me if i’m wrong.

        • Meta

          Clovis you really should know better lol.

        • artefact

          your text is what some people say (exept sabotage?) and that is why I don’t listen to what rossi says concerning DGT if I want to find out if what they have is real.

      • Ged

        I can’t help but laugh out loud at you saying DGT is more open than Rossi. They very much aren’t. Before this point and release by DGT: Rossi had answered questions continuously on his blog, shown off his device to the conference going public, given us multiple reports and continual updates, has others working with him we’ve had contact with, etc. DGT did… what? Shut down their forums the moment people started questioning them. There’s nothing open about DGT.

        If their data is good, they can easily make a comeback, though.

        • artefact

          They published many fotos of their test modules, published a spec sheet, there is a foto in the recent docs of a reactor (without the core), They SAID to cooperate with other researchers and give them data (I guess under NDA), they published this report now, ..
          More then nothing and I’m confidient that their tec and Rossis works.

          • Ged

            DGT is moving in the right direction with this release, that is for sure.

        • ivan_cev

          Ged, of the LENR players Rossi is the least open, full of NDAs and secrets.
          Give an example of the “open” Rossi

  • Javier Miranda

    I may sound naive, but I think all LERN initiatives should consider allies themselves, there are enough foes out there. In the other hand, I have never been robbed any intellectual property in which I may have been working for years and years!

    • Ged

      Interestingly, it seems that the higher organizations, NRL and NASA, are indeed working with and advising the different groups, and so are able to see what all are doing and aggregate that info for themselves. That is a mediator role that kinda acts like an “allying” effect, just unofficially.

      • clovis

        Hi, guys.
        I just love this by our fearless leader.
        I say with absolute sincerity that I have had proposals such that I could say “ok , I will sell everything, take the money and with the money I make a life for me, my children, my children’s children and the children’s children of my children … and then for the others it’s their own business!” [laughs] We chose instead of attending the development of this creature [he points to the Hot-cat] in order to be quite sure that it will grow up and graduat

      • clovis

        ooops, double post. sorry.

  • georgehants

    The Defkalion test report has been downloaded 569 times already.
    Who are all these people?
    —-
    2012-09-07_Test Report Validation_Signed_No Names.pdf [3.52 MiB]
    Downloaded 569 times

    • GreenWin

      I would hazard half of them are ETs 🙂 Engineering Technicians.

      • Ged

        Or the denizens of E-catworld.com 😀

    • Omega Z

      George

      All the U.S. Congressmen & Senators trying to figure out what stocks to Dump & which to Buy. LOL

  • GreenWin

    Ah, here comes NASA back into the fray. They’ve been silent too long for such a big player. Let’s not forget that Dr. Melich is a professor at the Navy Post Graduate School (NRL.) AND he continues to Advise on the Board of Andrea Rossi’s Journal of Nuclear Physics.

    As AR first introduced Defkalion (via Prof Stremmenos) to the e-Cat process, this appears to be further confirmation of Rossi’s LENR technology. Just another good day at the Nuclear Renaissance Administration.

    • Ged

      The connections are fascinating. NRL has set up to be bridged between the groups, and so able to get the best info from both. NASA may well come out swinging soon enough.

      • GreenWin

        Funny how the “denizens” of skeptopathy have yet to adequately explain the presence of Dr. Melich on Rossi’s Board, and at various acceptance tests. Do they include Dr. Melich in their cries of fraud??

        • ivan_cev

          Ups…This is really a problem.
          Who is DR Melich? could you give more detail?

        • Omega Z

          GW

          Had to go thru the posts. I figured you’d point this out if present. I’d add that he’s associated with many of these projects & Connected with most of the DOD agencies.

          Just proves that the Government is very aware of whats happening. Unless of coarse he’s keeping all the info to him self & planning a Coup.

          • Omega Z

            I would also add that Dr. Melich is just 1 of several people who pop up at these projects. They all run in the same clubs. But he’s probably the Big Dog.

          • GreenWin

            We can assume then, that the vituperative cries of Rossi “scam” and “fraud” are inclusive of our accomplished military agencies. Could these pathoskeps be little more than agents of… communism? CCP?? Kim Jon Il?? Fidel??

            Boggles the mind.

          • Peter_Roe

            I don’t imagine that many of them are too concerned about who pays for their time. A few are just very loosely wrapped of course, and do it for their own strange reasons when they get bored with shouting at the ducks on the local pond.

  • georgehants

    Steven Karels
    October 19th, 2012 at 11:10 AM
    Andrea Rossi – What is the longest time that a Hot eCat has remained in SSM?
    —-
    Andrea Rossi
    October 19th, 2012 at 11:35 AM
    Dear Steven N. Karels:
    About 1 hour,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • clovis

      Hi, george,
      SO, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN,
      a. I therefore understand the total amount of time the Hot eCat spent in self-sustaining mode (SSM) was 218 hours?
      b. The 218 hours consisted of a number of separate SSM periods, ranging in duration from minutes to ( hours?)
      c. During those SSM periods, no electricity was used to heat the Hot eCat, the electricity only supplied power to the control system?
      d. During the SSM period, the surface temperature stayed within some range. Can you specifiy the temperature range while in SSM?

      a. yes
      b. yes
      c. yes
      d. 1030/1070 °

      • georgehants

        clovis, sorry I have no idea, I simply put up the comment as news for others to comment on.

        • clovis

          I suppose it could mean that it stayed in ssm for one hour without resetting it’s self or what ever it called. it’s a great mistery why it want stay engaged contuniously.huh.

          • Ged

            It just means that the Hot Cat never stayed in SSM mode (mode without any electrical input) for more than 1 hour continuously. Then it could get a bump of electricity for a few minutes, and return to SSM, and over and over again.

            Interesting to know if the one hour is a functional limit, or just an arbitrary test limit.

    • Robert Mockan

      Looking at diffusion coefficients in the kind of surface and near-surface nano-morphology that appear necessary to make active LENR catalyst, I suspect what I originally thought might be erratic intervals of electric power in for varying times, are not erratic at all, but dependent on some interesting physics that apply to his design.

      Diffusion in the (as described by Rossi and other researchers), “tubular texture” metal catalyst with a nanometer size structural configuration, would follow the mathematical model of “Knudsen diffusion”.

      Such diffusion affects hydrogen activity and concentration of hydrogen in many kinds of regular (non-LENR) catalysts and there is no reason it would not apply to the LENR catalyst.

      The equation modeling this is:

      {{D}_{KA}}=4850{{d}_{pore}}sqrt{frac{T}{{{M}_{A}}}}, and reveals the variables to be Where d_{pore} has units of cm, M_{A} has units of g/mol and temperature T has units of K.

      To emphasize what is notable here:

      Knudsen diffusivity D_{KA} is dependent on the pore diameter, species A molecular weight and temperature.

      Making LENR catalyst with a precise and consistent pore diameter suffers from the same problems of material variation one finds in the procedures for making any chemical catalyst, that can affect activity.

      In the instance of LENR we also have the catalyst function dependent on hydrogen (in different states it can assume), concentration, and temperature. Even small changes can make a difference in activity.

      Thus my hypothesis is that different regions of the catalyst activity are turning off and on dependent on variations in diffusion state, that is influenced by the many variables previously mentioned.

      A loading cycle time of hydrogen into catalyst is also generally different from the unloading time, due to the different dissociation processes that come into play, that govern the absorption and desorption of the hydrogen.

      The result is that the catalyst has different regions that literally turn on and off at different time intervals, and electric power to provide stimulus is needed because it can be from an external source and is not dependent on LENR catalyst activity.

      This hypothesis appears consistent with everything Rossi has said about the characteristics of the operation of the E-Cat and the Hot Cat, having to do with self sustaining mode and external electric power driven mode, both happening at what seem to be erratic intervals, but both actually dependent on different regions of the catalyst being in different process states between fully active and inactive.

      I believe Rossi can probably solve this problem by better quality control making the LENR catalyst, and sectioning it into smaller regions each of which can be reactivated without affecting regions still fully LENR active. What is likely happening is that the “re-activation” that Rossi is using, perhaps one or more applications of electric heat, hydrogen pressure variations, or even current directly through the catalyst, may actually shut down active regions by pushing them into inactive states.

      This would explain the wide variation in COP with and without power in.

      I expect Rossi should be able to increase COP during power in, with the average COP even higher, once he has a better control system designed and installed.

      • GreenWin

        Interesting. Your suggestion then is to modularize catalyst, say, each with it’s own sensor/heater. Each module monitors it’s catalyst for temp and activity. As catalyst reverts from SSM to T < (T-x%) the heater kicks in. Thus only modules dropping out of SSM get energy input (except at startup.)

        This requires fully understanding the temp/pressure SSM threshold. This reactor does not introduce H2 at pressure as earlier versions. Which is a significant change.

        • Robert Mockan

          Yes. Rossi may have been doing that for this reason when he built his MW system using many separate E-Cats. I thought at the time it was to reduce cost with volume production and mass purchase of common components, using a size of E-Cat that could also be sold as single units to consumers for the home heating applications that Rossi talked about, even though it was clear one single large E-Cat would have higher reliability by reducing component count. I think now this electric power interval problem has been on-going for some time, and that is one reason he never built a single large unit for the MW system. And the COP=6 limit is what he found necessary to completely reset the LENR catalyst to a diffusion state where the whole catalyst charge could begin activity again at a common point in the LENR thermal power generation cycle. As you recall, he had constant on-off cycles and time intervals for electric power input in his low temperature E-Cat.

          He has changed his design in the hot cat, obviously, for the high temperature operation, but not having a lower input power average, and a lower peak power, combined with a non-constant reactivation power-in time interval, may indicate he is still having catalyst problems due to the reasons given.

          As you say he would need full understanding of temp/pressure SSM threshold. If he publishes such minute by minute data from the demo, and the turn-on times and intervals for when the E-Cat inputs electric power, we would have a better understanding of what is required. Superior quality control making catalyst might help if it removes structure variations affecting activity.
          In his Demo he was using 2.4 kW average and 5 kW peak. If the LENR catalyst was sectioned inside the cylinder into 10 discreet regions, each with own sensors and controller, Rossi might be able to cut down the power-in when needed to some fraction of what he presently applies, because at any given moment he would be reactivating only those sections that were depleted, and not resetting the entire system. Without more data no way to calculate probable gains, but it would seem, if the hypothesis is correct, that there would be some improvement in characteristics.

          • Robert Mockan

            Another comment Rossi made once that seems to support my hypothesis is his saying that he uses electric power input because it could be “focused”. Possibly he meant focused on specific regions of catalyst (that need re-activation). If so, then he may still be working on the problem.

        • Mario Marq

          I think the question of pressured H2 or not is a question of scale of your reactor

          About the catalyst efficency in those reactors the obvious line of thought to me is nanotech methods of fabrication

      • Ged

        That is some beautiful hypothesizing, Robert. Would love to have you get your hands on one of these devices.

        If we had that finer grained data as you mention in your other post, we might even be able to start reverse engineering aspects of the device with your ideas.

        • Robert Mockan

          Kind of you to say so, but as an amateur scientist I can only spend discretionary time and income on these kind of projects. When professional scientists realize the technology is real, and start working on it, team efforts with real funding will result in quick progress.

      • buffalo

        mmm.concentration variations could be the issue yes.we must remember that hydrogen gas rapidly desorbs strait out catalyst when a certain high temp is reached and that could lead to shutdown of lenr so one would have to now wait for temps to drop bak down before readsorption and re-appying heat to repeat cycle.high pressures would b conducive in this case.alternatively,lenr may be strictly surface phenomena happening at crystal surface as opposed to interior and annealing of surface morphology due to jet h2 plasma and high temps may shut down lenr in that case

        • Peter_Roe

          That’s a pretty good possible explanation (first part) of why the hot cat reaction may die back then require reheating periodically. If it’s a surface phenomenon as you suggest in the second part, this would be non-reversible I assume, so the reactor could not be re-started using more heat in this case.

          The adsorption problem presumably wouldn’t apply to the low temp e-cat, as the core of this would always be cool enough to retain a viable hydrogen adsorption level, yet it still seems to need periodic reheating and in this case the reaction must die away for some other reason.

          • buffalo

            yes but i think even the low temp in low temp ecats is somewhat above desorption temp of nickel(80degrees C?) and only few lenr reactions occuring per volume.it seems rossi learned that a fast singe of high heat input resulted in much more lenr per volume and had to adjust components to handle that(hotcat).yes i agree with you that annealing would be irreversable and probably happens after long runs requiring replacement.the ideal catalyst for an ecat seems to be a catalyst that has very high desorb temp(titanium?,zirconium?)

          • Peter_Roe

            There seem to be many papers published on absorption/desorption of H on Ni nanoparticles, pure, on substrates and coated, and the thermal kinetics seem to be dependent on many factors. On a side note I found this paper:

            http://jcp.aip.org/resource/1/jcpsa6/v60/i11/p4528_s1?isAuthorized=no

            This caught my eye in the abstract: “Hydrogen adsorption causes a strong damping of the intensity of the surface plasmon excitation and the appearance of an electron loss peak around 15 eV.” I wonder if there is a balance that must be struck between hydrogen availability at surface reaction sites, and the level of plasmon excitation? If that’s the case it may be that surface H adsorption and spillover can begin to dampen plasmon excitation leading to a reducing reaction rate, and a brief surge of heat is necessary to drive off some surface-bound hydrogen to increase plasmon wave activity again, with the reaction then feeding on hydrogen adsorped slightly deeper within the Ni matrix. Or am I talking complete b*ll*cks?

          • Robert Mockan

            I agree with you that these kind of processes can have an effect on the LENR reaction, that may even include turning off active catalyst.

    • Voodoo

      when patho-liar lie, he not remeber what lie was last.

      few queries back he lied that SSM has duration 2 hours

      • Rossi uses numbers as adjectives.

      • Peter_Roe

        Rossi actually said: “the duration is regulated by the control system, are not regular, depend on many factors: can be 1 hour, 2 hours, or minutes”.

        http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/10/self-sustain-profile-of-hot-cat/

        Please take your pointless and monotonous tro11ing somewhere else.

        • Ged

          Interesting that the process can be automated. So there’s something specific and easily detectible for the computer to watch and then kick on the drive when a certain value is obtained.

          • Peter_Roe

            Yes that’s true. There must be a signal coming back from the ‘heater’ wires in some way, unless there is an external IR thermometer or some other passive sensor that inputs to the control system. Maybe we’ll get a clue at some point – it’s worth watching out for.

  • daniel maris

    Champagne on ice till the reports are properly published. But this isn’t bad news!

  • georgehants

    Pekka, your comment I felt was important, so have asked Defkalion the below question.
    It has come up but no answer yet.
    ——–
    Defkalion I very much hope that congratulations are in order but here on E-Cat World http://www.e-catworld.com/
    we have some very competent people, one of whom commented —-
    “Since no data are presented, one cannot do any critical analysis. The reports and videos only contain some glimpses of what’s going on. Maybe I’m no wiser than anyone else in interpreting this particular DGT release.”
    —-
    May I ask when such data will become available.

    • georgehants

      So we wait….
      ——
      Defkalion
      @ georgehants
      Test data and their analysis will be published by the teams that did that tests in peer-reviewed journals they choose.
      Thank you

      • Fyodor

        Since you have posting privileges, can you ask them about Nelson’s name being readable on the PDF they released? Can you ask them if the testing report published below, with the names unredacted is authentic?

        http://ecatnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2012-09-07_Test-protocol-signed.pdf

        • georgehants

          Fyodor, I only ask questions of an overall nature.
          Understanding the Sherlock Holmes approach, but I would rather wait for the jury when the Evidence is clear.
          I am sure somebody else will be pleased to ask your questions.

      • Sanjeev

        A perfect example of how not to release a confidential report. If the black highlighter in MS Word was a bit difficult for average Joe, the Tshirt and the other report simply gave it away.

        Any NDAs are now totally violated. NASA will not be very happy. However, the leak(s) can be intentional.

        Anyway I’m very happy that DGT is back in game. They will be flooded with funding very soon.

        • What if

          The shirt could be a gift from somebody from NASA but the guy who’s wearing it is from Defkalion.

          • ivan_cev

            Do you need security clearance and T-shirt certification to wear a Nasa printed T-shirt?

          • Sanjeev

            Yes, thats most probable. It looks like NASA is not involved directly.

  • Chris

    When will the identity be disclosed? Why not yet, if they are already showing it?

    A quick look shows they apparently only vouch for overunity, nothing wonderful.

    • Allen McCloud

      Ya no big deal.

  • Pedro

    Besides the COP (3) it would also be interresting to know if we are talking milliwatts, watts or kilowatts. In the executive summary, under recommendations, there is a clue to what kind of energy we are talking about. The flow of water is mentioned at 750 ml per 5 minutes.
    Making some rough assumptions about the output temperature (not provided), we could get an indication of the output energy… 0.75 x 60/5min = 8 l/hr x approx. 75 degrees celcius (from 25 to max. 100 degrees C) = 600 Kcal/hr = 0.7 kWh ?

  • Stringbustr

    Has everyone seen the article in the new november ” Popular Science” magazine
    About Andrea Rossi and E-CAT
    Nice write-up.

    • daniel maris

      A link?

      • Omega Z

        daniel

        The new articles aren’t available without a subscription. Novembers article will probably be available online in December or January.

  • Roger Bird

    It looks like DGT has something real and is making progress, but if I were Rossi, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

  • Sanjeev

    Sterling Allan is reporting that he spoke to the ‘author’ and he is not operating on the behalf of NASA. The report is not associated with NASA.

    It can be true or it can be damage control, but unknowingly he confirmed the name of the testing party, as the author did not deny being a tester.

    Actually the report states that he is operating on the behalf of Free Energy Foundation. I never heard of them before.

    Anyhow its difficult to explain away the NASA-NRL name in the filename.

    • Peter_Roe

      There is a ‘Free Energy Foundation’ that acts as the procurement arm of Free Energy Europe, which is a Dutch NGO that exists primarily to provide solar power to developing countries.

      http://www.freeenergyeurope.com/htm/FEE_free_energy_foundation.htm

      They used to have their own website at freeenergyfoundation.org but this now seems to be defunct. I can’t find any other organisation by this name.

      Clearly NASA and NRL are taking a close interest in the European CF inventors, and the names of Melich, Nelson, McKubre etc. turn up regularly. It is depressing from my parochial POV that there is little evidence of any ‘official’ European watching brief, let alone active participation in testing. Either they have managed to keep any involvement quiet, or our military research people are too stupid to realise what is happening here.

      • Omega Z

        Peter

        There is a “Free Energy Foundation” in the U.S. I found it before, but now I can’t. Located in the Great Lakes area.

        Presently going threw reorganization. Went Broke.

        Someone bought up all there assets, building land & such & Gave it back to them to get them back on their feet. It’s Non-profit. They have some Major backers now, but the only One I recall specifically is Ford Motors.

        I’m Not certain of the Operational status at the moment so I didn’t give it much thought originally.

        • Peter_Roe

          Omega, if you come across any further info on the US based FEF you remember reading about, could you please post it. Gibbs is now saying (in a comment responding to hody/maryyugo’s usual garbage) that Nelson was sponsored by “Michael Melich’s organization”.

          Assuming Gibbs got the wrong website, it would seem that there may indeed be another Free Energy Foundation, and that it might be headed up by Melich. If this is the case, and it is acting in some kind of intermediary role, it might be quite important to explaining some aspects of the overall story we are trying to piece together.

        • Peter_Roe

          Actually on reflection (and a bit of research) I think that the ‘foundation’ must in fact have been the New Energy Foundation (Eugene Mallove). Melich, Nagel, Hagelstein et al. are active in this group, so probably not the ‘Free Energy Foundation’ as Gibbs states. They (NEF) do apparently have resources and have been giving out grants and sponsoring CF related activity, and so would be the logical sponsor for Nelson, acting in a private role.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            The original signed report stated “Free Energy Foundation” too.

            http://i.imgur.com/6A146.png

          • Peter_Roe

            mmm – so not the New Energy Foundation. Damn – thought I’d cracked it!

            Back to plan A then (try to find a Free Energy Foundation other than the defunct Dutch one).

      • Omega Z

        Peter

        Maybe this IS Damage Control.
        “he is operating on the behalf of Free Energy Foundation”

        I Thought Michael Nelson was filling in for Prof. Michael Melich (DOD-USA)

        It’s still possible he’s there on FEF’s behalf, but doesn’t feel right.

        • Peter_Roe

          Omega, I agree – it’s all beginning to look (and smell) distinctly odd. Not only do we have Defkalion apparently releasing different copies of the ‘redacted’ PDF with differing information under the blackouts, and now Gibbs trying to associate Nelson with a Dutch NGO which doesn’t even have a live website (both their IPs fail to resolve).

          • Peter_Roe

            Omega – two much more detailed replies are awaiting moderation, but it does look like your initial guess (damage control) is most likely correct.

        • Peter_Roe

          Interestingly the last time the Free Energy Foundation’s website was live was apparently back in May of 2009. You can view the page on Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20080611083811/http://www.freeenergyfoundation.nl/home.aspx.

          It would seem that far from being “is, as of writing, offline for unknown reasons” (Gibbs) it has in fact been defunct for well over three years. There is a leftover sub-page on another ‘green’ website (link 1 below), but it seems that in 2009 they rebadged themselves as the Rural Energy Foundation in 2009 (link 2 below) and so no longer exist as the FEF, which makes Gibbs’ statement look rather strange.

          1. http://www.energies-renouvelables.org/proven/eng/fef.asp

          2. http://www.ruralelec.org/fileadmin/DATA/Documents/07_Events/ARE_Symposium_2011/Willem_Nolens.pdf

          more…

        • Peter_Roe

          As the Rural Energy Foundation they seem to do little except provide technical support for solar power in Africa. They don’t appear to have a website, but they do have a linkedin page (link 1 below) and there a few articles about their activities scattered around, e.g. link 2 below.

          1. http://www.linkedin.com/company/rural-energy-foundation

          2. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/10/solar.energy.africa/index.html

          Gibb’s reference to FEF begins to look more and more like a diversionary tactic, as you suggest.

          • Omega Z

            Sorry Peter

            Other then the first time, I can’t get it to pop up. It was 1st on the list. Now Nothing.

            Every thing is so clandestine. I note that Cures said he may write a book when the dust settles with mention of James Bond. All the behind the scenes goings on.

  • Omega Z

    DGT had similar data exposed in the past.

    Most Software doesn’t actually erase or black out data like you would do on paper with a marker. It just overlays. If printed out it’s fine, but kept on the computer, it usually retains this info so the user can undo it latter. Many times specific steps are required to make it permanent & irretrievable.
    (Unless of coarse you don’t want it permanent in which case it does it anyway. LOL)

    Having had this unintended data exposure before, you have to wonder if it was intentional. You also have to wonder about the NASA T-shirt. Like it’s an unsigned report, then why the T-shirt. It’s as if they were trying to imply.

    Then below Sanjeev’s post. NASA isn’t involved. But they are, Or Not or ack#%$#

    Doesn’t matter. Dr. Michael Melich apparently is involved. There by association NASA among several other agencies are being kept apprised of the situation. Directly or indirectly.

    • Mick

      The brand new NASA t-shirt with the creases where it was folded in the packaging?

  • Loop

    If someone care enough here is about ecat in popular science
    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?y2g097958qndxtm

  • Loop
    • GreenWin

      Odd isn’t it, that anyone would expect balance from a magazine called “Popular Science.” We all know that LENR, Rossi, F&P, et al, have been the most UN-popular (read threatening) people in science for two decades.

      And fossil/fission CEOs will read this and stop biting their nails… for the moment.

    • As an artistic, literary work I value this rather high. Visual, descriptive style, like a sequence of impressionistic paintings, the journalist often also sets himself as part of the pictures, together with other things he encountered on his trip to summerly Italy.

    • Marvin Ostrega

      The last paragraph is funny!

  • DaveS

    I have some more evidence to suggest that NASA may be named in the Executive Summary. In Adobe Reader load the Summary, do an edit, Select All and paste into Notepad. Note the following line:

    “So, I brought a one liter sample back _______ with me to have characterized by a materials expert…”

    Now clip a small portion of that line that contains the underlined text and copy beneath that the same text with the underlined text replaced with the following phrase “to NASA” and it will look like this:

    sample back _______ with me
    sample back to NASA with me

    Notice the same character count. This also works with the printed PDF Summary by matching character for character “to NASA” right underneath the blacked out section.

    Not conclusive but interesting nonetheless.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      That used to be “to the US” instead of “______”.
      DGT posted a different version with completely hidden names this time.

      • doecat

        Loop_ Thanks for posting the PopS article(s). Actually, I did not find it that negative toward Rossi. The article started with comment on Celani suggesting support for the e-cat and ended with a positive view of Celani as a scientist. I think if I had read the article totally ignorant with what has been going on with LENR/CF, I would have seen a rather hopeful view of the e-cat and Rossi. Perhaps I am just too used to reading journalists who tend to cover their rear-end on anything controversial. At least he mentioned that Rossi was acquitted for the “criminal” charges levied against him in Italy.

        • John

          If the test group is unnamed, then the test has no credibility.

          • Peter_Roe

            We do know who was involved, whether we were intended to know or not. You can handle the information in any way you choose, but unless you were thinking of buying a Hyperion I don’t suppose anyone cares much what you believe.

          • John

            You care because you commented on what I’d written. Just sayin’.

          • Peter_Roe

            Not really, but I don’t like to let troll-type comments pass completely unchallenged.

        • Ged

          I like that e-catworld.com was mentioned in the article. Seems this site has indeed become the de facto center of the LENR/Rossi news world. I agree with your conclusions too, it was a nice story style of writing. The skeptics looked no better in the piece, with their positions shown as dogmatic. Interesting too that Rossi had sent this guy his validation report (the Zurich report, no doubt, but long before).

          • duecat

            Ged_ Thanks for the confirmation. I also noted that the author seemed kind of disappointed about it, but he admitted he could find no respected scientists who would call Rossi a scam.

            I didn’t mean to mislead by using two usernames. Just a case of not having posted for a while and forgot what I had originally signed in at. Thanks go to Frank for this great forum. I have learned a great deal because the topics chosen seem to solicit brilliant comment from really smart people.

        • Italo R.

          Here is the entire story about the charges to Rossi:
          http://ingandrearossi.net/

          He had no fault!

      • Camilo

        Ecatnews.com posted a link to download the original document that was first published in DGT forum. It is indeed NASA, and the names of the engineers. It also comments that NASA shows in the properties of the documents.

  • Sanjeev

    Gibbs changes his tune (a bit).

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/10/20/cold-fusion-gets-a-little-more-real/

    He did talk to Nelson, I must appreciate that.

    • ivan_cev

      Now this is huge, Nelson did confirm He tested it, signed the report for an independent organization.
      Now this is really big. If Rossi could get a report signed for people with the CV of Nelson many doubts will dissipate.
      NASA must be involved, but they do not want to risk their reputation at this stage.
      about this bit:
      “but the fact is that no one has yet demonstrated, definitively, that cold fusion or LENR exists in a form that is actually useful.”

      Do not have to be useful, it just have to prove excess energy, the usefulness will be just a consequence of that.

    • AstralProjectee

      Nice article. If Gibbs didn’t actually talk to Michael A. Nelson at NASA and confirm that it was him that did the test then I doubt that he would have published anything on this. It was a good idea and a good article.

      Thanks.

    • artefact

      Mary is kriviting again in the comments

      • Peter_Roe

        Yes, Hody is still sounding off like the weirdo he obviously is. He seems to be getting lonelier though, with only one other troll for company so far. Perhaps that’s because until very recently Gibbs was more or less of one mind with them.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          The quote below is from the 11/29/2011 article in Ny Teknik written by Mats Lewan
          This proves to me whatever Defkalion has it was stolen from Rossi. It is my opinion Defkalion is a shell game, Rossi is the real deal.
          “- Let’s say I have Rossi’s formula, but I do not say it officially. My scientists have found a way to accomplish it. They need three months.
          It said Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology ‘s owner, the New Technology in a telephone call on August 5 this year.
          – I know what is in the reactor. I know everything. It was done with spectroscopy at Siena University of Padova (…) They tested the reactor without [Rossi] knew what they were doing, he continued.”

      • Peter_Roe

        Wow – Gibbs has actually taken both Hody/maryyugo and the other troll to task for their purely negative comments!

        Interestingly he is now saying that “Michael Melich’s organization underwrote Mike Nelson’s trip”. It only remains to decide exactly what ‘Michael Melich’s organization’ means (presumably it is not the Free Energy Foundation , at least not the Dutch NGO that went by that name until 2009, and installs solar battery chargers in Africa under its new name of the Rural Energy Foundation).

  • artefact

    The Believers wins Best Documentary at Chicago Film Festival
    http://moviecitynews.com/2012/10/the-48th-chicago-international-film-festival-announces-the-winners-of-its-competitions/

    “In *THE BELIEVERS,* the filmmakers remind us just how inexact science really is sometimes.”

  • artefact

    Superconductoring Wire Could Improve by Four Times
    http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/10/superconductoring-wire-could-improve-by.html

    They use engineered nanoscale defects and a coating.

    Celani also got some superconducting in his preparated wire and said if he sees the resistance going down than the wire will show good results in LENR.
    He should try their wire … or they should try LENR.

  • georgehants

    The Guardian home
    The Observer home
    Every part of our society depends on energy. Yet we don’t have a plan.
    Cutting household costs is vital, but that can only be part of a much wider approach to how we keep the nation going.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/21/andrew-simms-green-deal-energy

    • georgehants

      As the newspapers keep repeating the same thing, I will repeat —-
      Why is every roof in the country not covered in solar cells.
      Why are the unemployed not employed to manufacture and fit solar cells free of charge, to every suitable roof and position in the country.
      If there is no profit involved then the cost is negligible and we would be Energy free in just a few years.
      Just a few other sources needed to run through the night.
      Lets all keep supporting capitalism and pay our fuel bills.

      • telecommuter

        Because it’s too expensive for the people who own the roofs?

        Because they don’t want to spend the money/time to maintain them?

    • Peter_Roe

      Lots of nuclear industry shills sounding off in the comments section. This is definitely a rare growth sector in the US and UK online economies.

      Why is it always solar and wind technologies that get the mention – tidal power from lagoons and barrages could supply 20% or more of UK electricity – more than the entire nuclear ‘fleet’ (14%) – predictably, year in, year out.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/11/uk-tidal-power-estimate

      • georgehants

        Peter agreed, it is just for me that solar power is an easy illustration of what could be without economics.
        Of course any technology could be used based on it’s merits.
        It may even be possible that a little almost unknown thing called cold fusion might come into the picture.
        With no capitalism only the best and most efficient would be considered for general use, all others would be immidiatly consigned to the scrap heap.

        • georgehants

          I must add that the whole purpose would be to put people out of work, not to falsely keep them enslaved simply to empower the rich and powerful to keep control.
          Perhaps an economist on page would like to dispute my Logic.

          • Peter_Roe

            George, I think a major drive towards true renewables (as opposed to nuclear) would in the short term, have just the positive effects that the grauniad article you linked to suggests. In terms of current economics though, tidal power would easily return the best ROI. The fact that most photovoltaics are imported makes them less attractive from a work creation standpoint in the UK, but wind and the often-overlooked sea turbine technologies could provide a huge boost to British engineering, as would a new photovoltaic industry using new, non rare-earth, technologies.

            I’m not factoring in cold fusion because (as I have droned on about repeatedly) I don’t think it will be adopted with much speed even when it is both developed and ‘outed’, due to foot dragging by both the existing energy providers, and the renewables industry, both of which have very strong lobbies in government (and of course because of the potential loss of fuel tax revenues to the treasury).

          • georgehants

            Peter, yes but do you agree that if one works away from creating the energy as we say, then economics is unnecessary in it’s present form.
            I understand the concepts I am putting forward are difficult to see when another way of thinking is so inbred in the population.
            I also understand the unbelievable Resistance to change, so clear with Cold Fusion and many other like subjects.
            One has to start somewhere I suppose.

          • Peter_Roe

            In an ‘ideal world’ perhaps, George, but as you say, certain ways of thinking are very deeply embedded and would take generations to change.

            More importantly, the world is literally ruled by financial interests that have inculcated these ways of thinking over hundreds of years. Because they are utterly dependent on their model of ‘economics’ for their parasitic existence (mostly the completely artificial concept of compound interest), for as long as they remain powerful they will not permit any change in way the world conceives and processes value.

            Unless they are removed in some way, realistically nothing will change. As a pragmatist I tend not to allow myself to think about what might be, only what could be.

          • georgehants

            Peter, thank you.
            Must respect your position of course.
            What does a realist like me do with such a position.
            It is I think the position of the vast majority.
            Well all I can do is keep being annoying.
            If these same things where put forward by the Times or the BBC or even the Sun newspaper, then miraculously like Cold Fusion, when it has moved along just a little more, it will be exceptable to think about such heresy’s, in fact it will be a fight for people to say we always believed in P&F Etc.

          • Peter_Roe

            George, I would say that you are an idealist. Idealists are an essential counterpart to plodding pragmatists like myself.

            As you say, the current paradigm will move along in due course, until CF is completely accepted and integrated, and regarded with little more excitement than electricity, radio communications and digital devices are now.

          • telecommuter

            What do you mean by ‘…economics is unnecessary in it’s present form.?

            What kind of economics would be?

  • georgehants

    From Changing Power via PESN.
    Breakthrough Energy Movement will host exciting event
    A state-of-the-world speech, no less, will be given by distinguished Canadian statesman the Hon. Paul Hellyer at the BEM conference on the November 9-11 weekend in Holland. He is that rarity –a former cabinet minister who has continued to learn about what’s really impeding the progress of humankind — and has the courage to speak out on topics such as the implications of new energy inventions.
    http://changingpower.net/breakthrough-energy-movement-will-host-exciting-event/

    • georgehants

      Many of us, especially I, are very critical of the establishment and those who blindly follow, afraid to think beyond the imposed Dogma.
      Is this a man willing to take that step, more concerned for humanity than his own petty position.
      I would like to offer him all good wishes in his campaign to overcome the barrier of fear, of looking outside of imposed and excepted thinking and to be led by a brave individual search for Truth and benefit for all.

  • andreiko

    Waarom ik denk dat de HOT-CAT met NIKKEL poeder,actieveKOOLSTOFPOEDER,en
    waterstof gevuld is.

    NIKKELPOEDER heeft een zeergroot oppervlak in verhouding tot het volume, dit maakt het mogelijk dat het waterstofgas (H2)een groot contact oppervlak heeft met het NIKKELPOEDER.

    Het contact van H2 met het NIKKELPOEDER kan men verhogen of verlagen door
    meer of minder druk op het H2 te zetten.

    Actieve KOOLSTOFPOEDER kan veel verontreinigingen wegnemen en ook vrijkomende straling absorberen.

    Door met de H2 druk te varieren lijkt de reactie goed regelbaar!

    Voorbeeld; wanneer de druk verdubbeld is door het inbrengen van meer H2 is het contact met het NIKKELPOEDER ook verdubbeld!er zijn dan immers het dubbele aantal H2 atomen aanwezig in de reactor.Bij minder H2 druk het tegen gestelde.
    De druk verhoging kan ook door temperatuurverhoging ,dus niet meer atomen H2 maar wel snellere atomen H2 met als resultaat meer contact met het NIKKELPOEDER of minder bij temperatuur verlaging.

    PS/ You can translate from Dutch.

    • A potential problem: methane formation from C and H catalysed by Ni. I’m not sure, just saying that it might potentially happen. Methane is a quite stable molecule so once it forms, it tends to stay. Methane bubble formation is responsible for hydrogen embrittlement in carbon-containing steel if I remember it correctly.

      • andreiko

        Een rechtstreekse door Nikkel gekatalyserende reactie van C+ 2H2> CH4 is mij onbekend en onwaarschijnlijk.

  • Dave

    An “unnamed” group makes this test report completely worthless.

    • Peter_Roe

      An unnamed group would have made the report worthless. How fortunate that we know exactly who carried out the test and who signed off the results.

      And please try to remember that your ID is ‘John’ not ‘Dave’.
      (John on October 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm)