Rossi: First Hot Cat Plant to Start Operations in Feb 2013

Here’s a comment from Andrea Rossi that I think deserves its own thread.

Yes, Leonardo Corp is very much powerful now. I can already say that the first 1 MW hot cat will go in operation within February 2013. It will not be a military application, therefore selected persons will be allowed to visit it. It will be installed in a big power production and distribution plant. This is the new. The plant is made in the USA.

An extremely important agreement has been signed after the tests of the Hot Cat, which are going on since June in the USA and in Italy. The details will be communicated only after the plant will have been working for enough time to be visitable, also to avoid clubs in the wheels.

That’s all I can say right now.

Note that he is here referring to the Hot Cat, not the low temperature E-Cat. Rossi has mentioned numerous times that one low temperature plant will be installed at a non-military location somewhere — in Italy as I understand it — so this is apparently a different istallation.

Rossi says that this plant is ‘made’ in the USA, not that it will be installed there. If a 1 MW Hot-Cat unit can be made as compact as he says (about the size of an oil barrel) it should not be a problem to transport it anywhere in the world.

  • First again..Come on guys..

    • Redford

      “it should not be a problem to transport it anywhere in the world.”

      Nuclear device ? Border ? Custom ?
      My bet is that it’s build in the US, bought in the US.

      • Stringbustr

        A barrel of oil can do more damage to the planet than any Hot Cat
        Could ever do.
        I know it will take time before that is realized.

      • captain

        I’d say in Italy.
        Mr. Rossi has been very pleased to participate to Pordenone’s meeting where he could talk with selected interested repeat mainly interested people to his creature.

        In Italy there are the highest prices for fossil fuels in EU and for electricity too.

        It’s the right moment for helping Italy but mainly this is important: … It will be installed in a big power production and distribution plant…

        • stuey81

          we australians need this too,2nd dearest electricity in the world, 2nd only to the solomon islands, im not sure why, we have all the coal, all the gas, and we have the most sunshine in the developed world for solar?

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing

          • stuey81

            holy cow, ukraine gets its kw/h for under 4 us cents!

    • “Made in usa” doesn’t mean COMPLETELY made in USA. It’s quite possible to manufacture the reactors in Italy or elsewhere and to assemble the shelter in the states. They are a lot of underwriter capable to assemble such unit.

    • Filip48

      Oh… you want to play it this way?! 🙂

    • Fyodor

      We were also told in January of 2012 that a 1MW E-cat would soon be delivered to a non-confidential customer who could be publicly identified and would allow select visitors. How’s that one coming along? Had any school trips to the non-secret E-Cat?

      No one wants this to be true more than me, but until this actually happens it’s just more blather from Rossi.

      • Ged

        Seems like the hot cat sidelined all the low temp e-cat development and production.

        • Fyodor

          Or he was full of crap then and full of crap now. He has promised third party proof over and over again. His doing so yet again doesn’t do much for me.

    • Gerrit

      Prometeon says:
      “3. Hot Cat (Not yet on the market — in ‘advanced stages of research and development’). It is listed as producing temperatures of 600 C, and recommended for industrial processes that require high temperatures, and for the production of electricity.”

      Rossi says:
      “The first 1 MW hot cat will go in operation within February 2013” and “It will be installed in a big power production and distribution plant.”

      I assume that both are telling the truth and that Rossi is giving some insight into the “advanced stages of research and development” of the hot cat.

      “Into operation” thus means “field trial at customer site”

      “selected persons will be allowed to visit it” and “The details will be communicated only after the plant will have been working for enough time to be visitable” thus means after the field trial is completed, which might indeed take months, let’s assume 3 months starting from March.

      Therefore I expect nothing solid regarding the hot cat before 1. June 2013, that is 7 months from now.

      From an engineering point of view, I even doubt that it is doable to get from the hot cat core we have seen on the pictures to a working field trial at a customer’s plant in such short time.

      I fear that before the results of the hot cat 1MW plant will become available, Rossi will present us the much improved, better controllable, higher COP, cheaper fuel, smaller size “Ultra Cat”, which will go into operation within October 2013 and is visitable after the test are concluded ….. and the results will be available within March 2014.

      On the other hand, maybe the 1MW “c/old” cat plant will be delivered to the Italian customer and visitable before March 2014.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        If the hot cat goes into operation–trial or whatever–at a normal electric facility, it’s hard to believe that such an event could be kept secret. It would be all over the world in no time.

        What about the results of the independent hot cat tests performed at the same time as the Rossi Hot Cat tests? Since they were presumably completed at about the same time, why haven’t these objective third-party results been released? I sincerely hope it’s not because they differed from Rossi’s results?

        • Omega Z

          Fibber

          The Swedish escapade caused a setback. This resulted in a redesign in the Hot Cat & the way the tests were preformed. So the Tests you mentioned wouldn’t even be completed until late October.

          Those results should be available in late November. Possibly early December. If this is an Official 3rd Party Report with their names attached, they’ll want to be diligent in presenting the Data. Careers could be at risk.

          Just a side Note here. Many have mentioned the Mayan Calender to Rossi. (Dec. 21st.) Something Rossi wasn’t aware of. I hope this didn’t cause him to look into it & Decide to be Theatrical by Presenting on Dec. 21st. It Does fall on a Friday when Rossi likes to divulge things. Of coarse there is also Dec. 25th. A Christmas present some have asked Rossi for.

      • Omega Z

        Gerrit

        I Agree, Rossi is probably overly optimistic on the approximate time. That could happen only if everything went perfectly smooth. A rarity in life.

  • RichyRoo

    I really hope this happens.

    • sh1964

      Me too. Presumably this is the 4 month lead time on an order that has just been placed.

      • sparky

        This is truly entertaining. I will make a large bowl of popcorn and watch the epic failure of big oil, coal, nukes, pollution, …or Rossi.

        • daniel maris

          So far it’s Rossi says. If he said “We will be selling from February 2013 and it will be a condition of sale that we are allowed to take videos of their operation and show them to the world. The first video will appear by 1st March 2013.” that might be something.

          But, as far as I know, we can’t see images of these products, even the E Cat gas heater doesn’t seem to be on display. Where is it?

          • G_Zingh

            I like Rossi says. It is a lot more interesting and creatively upbeat than maris says.

            And what do you mean a video would be “something”, well a hole in the ground is “something” also, You’re not going to believe the video anyways so what is the point.

            Who cares that you can’t see pictures or images or touch it or feel it or get a 345 page report signed by 20 scientists and validated by 3 universities. You are not the story, and judging from the same old tired rehashed arguments I hear from you and similar ilk, that hole in the ground is a lot more interesting.

          • Omega Z

            daniel

            The Gas Heater is still in development.

            As far as waiting. It’s tough. I can think of 1 thing that would be tougher.

            As Exciting as it would be for many of us to actually work with Rossi on the E-cat technology, Imagine setting there watching it. The Waiting, the watching, the waiting. Hour after hour after hour. Nothing to do but watch & check the data. And watch some more. Knowing that if you walk away just for a few minutes, something may happen of great importance to the project. Maybe Good. Maybe Bad. But you or someone has to be there all the while it’s running. A single screw up on your part can invalidate everything & you have to start over. Something of this nature- About 10% exciting, About 90% sickeningly boring.

            I’ve worked projects of this nature. The Waiting.
            Waiting on news from Rossi. It’s not so bad. I can leave it & come back later. No Harm, No Foul. No problem…

        • Ged

          Guess we are just going to have to wait for that third party report sometime this month. Le sigh.

      • Vo o d oo

        If you analyse carefully his words, so no news will be communicate in February. Even university tests within 2 months is more and more another joke.

  • Francesco CH
    • Ged

      Contract with the military? Makes sense at least; they’d want first dibs.

    • Jim

      Good observation, Francesco, this may well be that news.

      OMG, but that would mean there would be some consistency in Rossi’s behavior! He’s managed to do something that did not provide the thread to unravel his Grand Deception! Whatever should we do now!?!

      🙂

      • Roger Bird

        And when February 2013 rolls around, the first Hot Cat plant will be a secret in some undisclosed location west of London, or something like that.

  • Andrea Di Luccio

    They are “intentions” not facts. In Italy we say something like this: “the road to hell is made with good intentions”.

    • Ged

      ARM is going to make a 64-bit RISC processor. That is their intention, but it is not yet a fact (i.e. no such processor or even the finished plans for one exists).

      And yes, that is a common quote, that in the US is put as, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” It is speaking of the evils humans can do to each other in the name of a “righteous” cause.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I am still waiting on the third party hot cat confirmations, the non military warm cat installation, the university confirmations, it is best Mr. Rossi stops talking and produces his past promises.

    • Ged

      A random announcement of long range plans should not change the time line of those immediate things. One should hope!

      I am kinda sad no one is discussing the direct subject matter here, and just bringing up what we are already waiting for and know will be in the next month or so. It’ll come soon, or at least it better.

  • Tom Ammons

    I note the uniformly skeptical response from those who responded and these are the sympathetic or hopeful ones who think there might be something to Rossi’s claims. It can’t go on much longer. The whole E-cat spectacle is about to collapse. I myself do not think anything like an operational Hot Cat in February will materialize but I do still think the LENR is a real phenomena, though poorly understood. For those of my persuasion the best thing we can do is turn our attention away from Rossi–make him irrelevant.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      “For those of my persuasion the best thing we can do is turn our attention away from Rossi–make him irrelevant.”

      Does that mean you will vacate this site?

      • Jim

        We can only hope…or wait, were we not supposed to hope?

        Ah, we can hope AND wait. Oh, but we’re already doing that.

        Works for me!

    • Gerrit

      My thoughts exactly, Tom

    • Ged

      Every time someone has made such a proclamation of collapse, it hasn’t happened. This is but one of many irons in the fire. Don’t forget our third party report should be this month or so. If that keeps slipping, then I will agree with you.

  • Pedro

    For a nice overview of all the problems that each of the “renewable” (and non-renewable) energy alternatives have,
    see http://theautomaticearth.com/Energy/renewable-energy-the-vision-and-a-dose-of-reality.html
    The overview does not include LENR, but discusses all of the alternatives.
    There seems to be no real generic solution. One of the suggestions is to drop the national grid and go for local energy generation through micro grids. Each area could use the best alternative for that particular environment.
    We ofcourse know that they will all choose for LENR when (if) it comes available, and LENR is very good suited for local micro grids.

  • Karl

    I believe this is really very good news as it indicate that the hot cat has reached a fairly advanced stage of development and should by now have reached a level above an advance prototype. This must mean that we soon should have the information from the third party evaluation of the Hot Cat.

    Feb 2013 is not far away and if Leonardo has signed a contract with a larger customer and manage to deliver a hot cat by feb. 2013, Leonardo should be financially secured by then. This means that Rossi would start gaining the financial power he surely need in the future battle of patent rights etc. Even the best patent is virtually worth nothing if one does not have the financial power to back it up.

    • Omega Z

      Karl

      Give a thumbs up, but with 1 caveat. I think Rossi is to optimistic on the Date. Maybe I’m prejudiced Because I had already considered June or July the most likely time frame. I was considering the dynamics of incorporating the Cores into a system for optimal heat transfer. But then he has increased the number of people working for him so maybe these problems can be overcome quicker.

  • Lu

    Rossi has made this exact same promise earlier this year with a 1MW plant. It should have been public and visitable by now according to his own pronouncements. I am too lazy to dig up his statements but people who have been following Rossi should be able to confirm this. Perhaps it’s the same customer only they decided to wait for the upgrade.

    Rossi needs to follow up better, one way or another, with what he says. After all, as Rossi says, if he says something he has to do it. I would understand if things change. Still hanging on with hope that what he has is real.

    • Ged

      Most of everything Rossi has said has happened to some extent or another. However, the low temp e-cat stuff seems to have been thoroughly sidelined by the advent of the hot cat. That development started around the same time that the slipping of the E-cat time line began. I can’t blame him too much, since the hot cat is both far more exciting and useful, but it is too bad.

      • Lu

        Hi Ged. If things change he should fill us in if for no other reason than it doesn’t look good. Remember he’s already claimed orders for 14 1MW E-Cats and delivery of at least two. One was supposed to be visitable by now.

        I don’t really agree with you on that what Rossi has said has come true. We are still waiting for verifiable evidence that a) The E-Cat works b) He has an actual customer that is using his product. Nothing else really matters.

        I want all of this to be true as much as anyone but I need actual evidence that it is, not wishful thinking.

        • Ged

          I see where you’re coming from, but I do have to disagree about your point A. I think the several lines of data we’ve had released show A, for the hot cat anyways, is fulfilled. B is indeed an unknown. On the other hand, what a customer does with the product isn’t up to him; so if he sold it to someone, they are the ones that have to open it up to the public, and we are at their mercy.

          On the other hand, anyone who has a 1 MW low temp plant may want to run it for a few months to verify it thoroughly before displaying it, and we have to factor in that possibility when we think about the timeline.

          • Michael

            What about certification this time? Important or not important, or necessary?

            And what about some lifetime testing. It is a standard procedure at every well known heating appliance manufacturer. I simply want to see a accelerated lifetime description…….but I doubt it exists. It is probably impossible to go from a prototype to a commercial product in such a short time. It tells a lot, doesn’t it? So this is an alpha or beta version for out-of-laboratory tests if we are very lucky. Why should the development of this technology be so much faster than the development of fuel cells, where it easily takes a decade from first laboratory prototype to commercial product. So, until a real third-party test of a long-time operating appliance is presented this is a modern fairytale. Will he be as famous as H.C. Andersen?

          • Ged

            Life time testing was actually done previously. Rossi tested for several hundred hours. All that was done back in May/June, and previously. This has been underdevelopment for a long time.

            Fuel cells also don’t take that long, and have been in use since the days of Apollo. Most of the advances in fuel cells lately have been extremely manufacturingly complex (nanotechnology), and it is building the equipment to build the fuel cell that takes time; and finding a market/investments that would even use it. The E-cat in contrast is very simplistic and easy to construct with current equipment.

            Apples and oranges.

          • Michael

            I am talking about thousands of hours. One year has 8760 hours and the e-cat should be working for many years. A few hundred hours of controlled lab testing is only a slight indication. Testing in real operating conditions including steady-state operation, start, stop and transient load changes is the real world that counts. I have been involved in fuel cell testing and knows the time that has to be spent in the development. The Apollo fuel cell design is not interesting today for the general market. Other electrolytes and fuels are used. Look at the automotive industry. Now, we are beginning to see almost commercial products (though expensive) from for example Huyndai. The lifetime is still an issue for for example stationary Solid oxide fuel cells (SOFC). For almost decades the goal has been around 40,000 hours.

            How do we know that the e-cat is so simple in design? Where is the verification of that? I think the fuel cell is very simple, an electrolyte, anode, cathode, and you get electricity and heat. In theory very simple.

          • LCD

            Now you have to consider this statement in light of more fantastic Rossi says. From Pop Sci

            “The director of the Hot Cat test, a retired colonel and friend of Rossi’s, leaked the test results on the Web a week after Rossi sent them to me. The enthusiastic colonel “could not help to talk about this event and the remarkable results,” Rossi said on his blog. Rossi used the occasion to make another big announcement: The University of Bologna would conduct a new independent test of the Hot Cat and publish the results in October. When I contacted Dario Braga, vice rector for research at the University of Bologna, he unequivocally denied any official relationship between the university and Rossi. “I’m not aware of any work being done by our scientists with Mr. Rossi in a formally correct way,” Braga said. “I don’t know how Mr. Rossi can say this.”

          • LCD

            Of course he is referring to this statement

            Andrea Rossi
            August 11th, 2012 at 3:35 AM

            INFORMATION:
            AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT:
            THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.
            ANDREA ROSSI

            so I’m not sure how you reconcile these two opposing statements without just saying somebody is telling a “whopper”.

          • LCD

            “formally correct way” So maybe informally this is being done in which case it opens up another can of worms.

            Just so frustrating with Rossi

        • Omega Z

          Lu

          From the bits & pieces of info I’ve picked up, It’s my understanding that the 2nd 1Mw E-cat also was diverted to the Military customer. Not the Private customer. Another was to be built for the private customer to be delivered at a later date.

          The Military will always take precedence. On the upside, the cash influx from this 2nd Military sale coincides with an Increase of Rossi employees. Actually any Government Agency would come first. I think we know why that would be. However, Rossi wouldn’t divulge that to us if that be the case. It would upset to many people.

  • CP in FL

    This is just another promise from Rossi that will likely remain unfulfilled. Didn’t we hear something similar about the original e-cat? Wasn’t it supposed to be installed in at a non-military location for all to see? What about the independent third party testing? I guess we get to wait another 6 months or year for any proof of Rossi’s claims.

    • Karl

      A coincidence? It seems we got a considerable number of pseudo sceptic aligned on the site right now. This statement has nothing to do with the third party test Rossi has said to come soon.

      • Peter_Roe

        They do suddenly seem quite anxious to muddy the waters don’t they. I think we’re up to about four serious shills now, alternating duties (or possibly just shifting identities) to avoid seeming too obvious. The song is always the same broken record though.

        • Karl

          I agree. The closer we reach real clarification the larger the anxiousness. That is of course expected but I must say it is very boring or irritating and it definitely does not give any food for thought.

          • G_Zingh

            What do you mean no food for thought?

            Plenty of whine and cheese.

          • GreenWin

            Dear Mr. Zingh, is it true that the herb that sounds like your name, is safer than mah wah based medicinals? And isn’t most of the whining coming from the Templarist doubters?

            We told them to prepare for the unpredictable.

          • G_Zingh

            This is doubly true. Herb likes to read about Rossi’s R&D plans and status updates. He gets upset when people whine about their negative outlook on the future of the human condition. Don’t worry Mr Negative Skeptic proof is in the pudding and I like tapioca.

        • CP in FL

          Peter_Roe – I love the conspiracy theories. I have no alternate identities and I am not in the energy business. I wonder how many years you would be willing to give Rossi before he delivers on just one promise he has made to prove his technology. If next year comes and goes without a third party validation or a satisfied customer will you still believe Rossi?

          • Peter_Roe

            Sometimes I’ve wondered that myself CP, but when a wave of people like you start flooding this blog with repetitive pseudoskeptic crap, I know that we are close to important developments.

          • Jim

            That’s a good observation Peter. The pseudo-skeptic noise level really does go up when there is a significant announcement.

            Options include 1) they are lurking, and only become activated when they perceive important news, or 2) they are notified by on or more persons who do the monitoring.

            Considering the uniform style of their responses (complaining about delays, pointing to perceived inconsistencies), I’m guessing they are notified.

            How pathetic is that!

          • stuey81

            jim & peter, i think your reading too much into these guys comments, i think like everyone who visits this site, they are really wanting this tech so badly, that everytime there is a delay or a deadline passes they get so peeved that they cant help themselves but to post. Im here myself everyday awaiting the breakthru news that the ecat/hotcat has been approved a patent or valid 3rd party confirmation has occured. Rossi really does shoot himself in the foot with what he says sometimes there is no dening that, but its almost comicle to see peoples coments/ interperatations of rossi`s “riddle talk”. dont get me wrong, im a lenr believer, i want nothing more than to log on here tomorow and read about 3rd party confirmation, and a set date on when i can purchase a domestic full SSM electricty producing product as my elec bill for my house was just shy of $2000 for the 1/4. but you must understand why people ask the questions that they do about rossi. in short everyone is really anxious – and why wouldnt they be, its a game changing claim. i really hope that rossi is the exception to the old rule, if something sounds to good to be true, it usually is.

            im not a paid shrill/troll – just a forklift driver who works for nestle here in australia, who recieves ridiculous elec bills! and who dreams of owning a electric car (tesla model s) powered by a lenr reactor!

          • Miles

            +1. Smack Bang On 🙂

            “who dreams of owning a electric car (tesla model s) powered by a lenr reactor”.

            It was estimated LENR cars to be around 10 years from a entering the market.

          • GreenWin

            stuey81 and FOS (frends of seth) – you need not defend the Thomases. Nor question Ing Rossi. Does anyone really believe this “invention” arrives from Ing Rossi? He is a mere messenger. A perfectly good one at that (replete with frailty and eccentric behavior.)

            The skeptopaths rely on their old world criterion. “It must pass our carefully constructed gauntlet of institutional science.” No. It must only appear in the open, powering a turbine, a desal unit, boiling water.

            And it likely will. The old world “scientists” don’t have a clue as to the mechanism it operates by. Why then are they, experts??

            You must understand why people want LENR to fail. But, that should be obvious by now.

          • Omega Z

            stuey8

            I would suspect it will be a good 5 years or more before we have 1 of these in our home producing any Electricity of real consequence.

            Cell phones didn’t fully come to market until the late 90’s. But watch some old movies & you’ll see people holding up what’s comparable to a very large brick to their head. Prior to that was the walkie talkie’s for decades. Cell phones are just an Extension from them with improved technology.

            My point is time is just a matter of perspective.

            The Cell phone was a long time coming.

          • GreenWin

            I have often intimated, as the howls of the pathoskeps rise, so too does the inevitable success of the e-cat. An unwitting barometer, eh?

    • Ged

      All of those were to occur in the next few months. Time lines move, but the general gist of things remains the same. I feel like everyone has amnesia and has forgotten all the other times Rossi has delivered and the progress that has been made in the past few months.

  • Ged

    One interesting detail I don’t see anyone commenting on yet, is that the plant is being made in the USA.

    This is the first time we’ve seen Rossi building a complicated device (1 MW made out of hot cats) here in the USA, thus he must have a manufacturing base — or have a partnership with someone who does.

    My guess is the latter, and it may even be the military who is building it for him, giving them an exclusive contract for the USA at this time; if all Rossi says is accurate (and other than time line dates or downplaying things, Rossi has been very reliable).

    • Italo R.

      The “Honeycomb-Cat”, made with about 70 hot-cats isn’t complicated.
      And there aren’t necessary strange technologies for making those hot-cats.
      They have already studied and realized them. The last thing studied is the heat exchanger.
      So, for making one honeycomb-cat (1MW total) it is enough a little workshop.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex
    RE: [Vo]:Scientific American censors discussion of cold fusion, including statements by its own editors
    Jones Beene
    Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:09:13 -0700
    The county I live in (Marin Co. CA) is not large in population – but does
    have 18 branch libraries with magazine sections. I suspect that all of them subscribe to Sci-Am.
    I am going to write to the head Librarian to request cancelation of all
    subscriptions to Sci-Am except for one or two to archive. I will cc to the
    mag. editors.
    The argument for cancellation is of course not based upon one ignorant
    blogger’s uneducated comments, nor the lack of a fair appraisal of the
    science (we expect that). Instead the argument for cancellation is based
    On the magazine’s implicit decision at the editorial level to allow selective censorship of responses..
    I doubt that this effort will succeed – but I encourage everyone else on
    Vortex – who is in a locale that values freedom of speech, and has lots of
    libraries with Sci-Am subscriptions to do likewise.
    Jones
    http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg72555.html

    • Karl

      The defender of the current dogma are obviously getting increasingly more and more anxious.

    • NJT

      If even half of what Rossi has comes true, Scientific American will be relegated to comic status at least to those with a brain – and that will be most unfortunate…

      • Robert Mockan

        “Clubs in the wheels”? I still think Rossi underestimates his opposition.
        When the torpedoes are fired, the cruise missiles launched, the ballistic missiles on top of him, all armed with nukes, and all targeting him and his efforts, THEN we will see what kind of defenses he has. The relevant issue will be can he make any more progress trying to market anything when the real attacks begin?

      • GreenWin

        It already is. They run a column titled: “COCKTAIL PHYSICS?” Seriously? RIP SA… another media suicide.

  • clovis

    Hello,
    Darn, the good news just keeps on coming. yahooo
    A new horizon, has appeared, our world is in for a great change.
    Thanks Mr. Rossi for keeping us so well informed, and to you frank, for reporting it to us, it is a very exciting time to be alive.
    Lots of great thinkers from our past could have only dreamed of what is developing right before our eyes.— I am very happy with this news.—Clovis

    • Patrik

      Good news? Another deadline passed and another Rossi promise not delivered. Instead we get a new promise, this one 5-6 months away. And you consider this good news?

      To constantly say things and never deliver but instead just talk about something else something in the future is lowering credibility to say the least. And thats not good news in any way or form.

      • Ged

        What deadline was passed that we didn’t already know about?

        • clovis

          Hi, Ged,
          I had just remembered something I read i think it was in the Prometeon srl launch thread, that stated that these devices have no moving parts , i had forgotten that, yet another great feature, wouldn’t you say, smile .
          P.S. I try not to listen to the negativeness .

          • Gerrit

            The only moving thing on the e-cat is the timeline 🙂

          • Ged

            And those beautiful data traces we’ve seen on several occasions 🙂

          • clovis

            Yep’

        • Patrik

          Andrea Rossi
          August 11th, 2012 at 3:35 AM

          INFORMATION:
          AFTER THE LEAKAGE MADE BY AN INSIDER WITH THE THE NICKNAME “CURES” REGARDING THE TESTS COMPLETED ON JULY 16TH, WHICH HAD TO REMAIN UNDER NDA, I HAVE TO INFORM THAT:
          THE TEST MADE ON JULY 16TH WILL BE REPEATED OFFICIALLY WITHIN THE HALF OF OCTOBER 2012 BY THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA AND THE RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED BY THE SAME UNIVERSITY.
          ANDREA ROSSI

          • Ged

            That hasn’t been missed. As far as we know, that exactly has occurred. Note that the university is repeating the tests in that time frame, that does not mean published in that time frame! Publishing is coming later after manuscript preparation is complete; it’s just the repeat of the tests were to be done then — and it seems as if that has happened from what information we know. In short, the deadline has been met!

            Moreover, that is -out of Rossi’s hands-. So if the university decided to delay, there’s nothing Rossi can do about it; he can only tell us the timeline he himself has been given. Still, that deadline has -not been passed-. You are misreading the statement.

          • Max S

            from Rossi, published on this website on aug 27:
            “The rigorous publication deriving from the third party validation that we will make, as I said, within October by a University will be made by the professors who will make the validation …. I can anyway say that the test made on the 16th of July has been made with 6 professors of 2 Universities”
            So, where is the university report ? Today is last day in October

          • georgehants

            Hello Max, What is your opinion of the scientists or irrational sceptics who have in the past and even now deny that Cold Fusion is possible.
            Not Rossi but Cold Fusion.
            Thank you

          • Max S

            denying that LENR is possible would not be wise. I have no respect for denying against facts, but I do respect and encourage people who ask tough critical questions and request evidence. That’s not denying.
            Many people, honest scientists, have delivered promising results, such as transmutated elements, Helium and excess energy. But unfortunately there are many not so honest players in this game, looking for fame and money, you probably can imagine who I have in mind.

          • Vudu

            I have hypothesis that in background of this fanatical refuse to publish some validation or independent test are his comrades-advisers ex-waarmongers. They probably fooled him with promises of more orders from soon to bankruupt powerplant companies and these ex-waarmongers now playing their own political games with their confidential knowledge. Poor distributors interests was sacrified – without validation they are capable sell max 1/20 of possible number of e-cats

          • jacob

            voodoo,Give me a break,who needs peer review or independant test for dummies anyway,there is nothing fanatical to have a good strategy ,If leonardo corp decided third party tests to be done,they would have by now,they are building and selling these units everywhere most likely,why would leonardo want unwanted publicity from the media,at a time when the company is growing at a steady rate, without to much resistance ,they want to be left alone ,to do what they do best.

            Publishing all information about all their business,would be detrimental to their future,to become strong and powerful and rich is the first priority,to be able to survive all opposition.

          • captain

            ‘voodoo’ grandson or ‘Vodoo’ father or ‘Vudu’ son?

          • georgehants

            Max, I agree with your points but you appear to be prejudging that would make you an irrational.
            You have made your point well and I am sure will not need to make it again, but either take up another hobby or wait impatiently like the rest of us for the Truth to emerge.

          • Ged

            That statement doesn’t say the -publication- is in October, but that it will derive from third party validation testing that they will make within October. The testing is in October, not the publication.

            As one who has published scientific reports, I can tell you that the write up can take months, especially if reviewers ask for additional information and you have to go back to do more experiments. None of that is in Rossi’s hands.

          • Max S

            clearly, the statement is on the publication in october. But no worries, we can wait a bit longer. A few more months for writing it up. LOL.

          • GreenWin

            Ged, you are exactly correct. The third party tests by a university were to be complete by October. We presume then the compilation of data, presentation with charts, spreadsheets, tables, graphs will take additional time. No promises broken except to the skep’s fragile ego.

          • Timar

            It’s not the first time that Rossi promised a test be the University of Bologna – one year ago he announced a similar test for the “domestic” E-Cat – until the University publicly denied its involvement in such a test.

          • Ged

            And yet we’ve had a report released from a professor at UniBo. Word games seem to abound in this on all sides.

          • GreenWin

            Yes, clearly the pressure on the University to disavow knowledge of the e-cat are tremendous. The threats will be in the form of funding cuts to all departments. Which is why third party “validations” are so bogus in this area of science. Just look how the pathos treat the very firm verifications of Mills CIHT cell.

            It’s kind of pathetic to see them attempt to assassinate some of those credentialed scientists. Ah well, children…

      • NJT

        Patrick, According to my Earth time calendar, February 2013 is FOUR months away not 5 or 6…

        • Patrik

          I think you missed february + “enough time to be visitable” part. Wich in my dreams would be 2 months, problably much more.

  • Pachu

    To Francesco CH, since you seems to have more inside info, i think you understand perfectly this is more Rossi’s says with no real dates of anything, has been a long time of this, while i want to believe, the fact of (now) years and nothing tangible makes this hard, so i want to ask you:

    Do you have any info on a real and tangible event or proof that outsiders can know to give all this bluff some substance ? and i mean real cold hard facts, like the patent rejection for example (negative fact like most are), and not bogus statements with open interpretations that each persons gets in his own way.
    Cya.

    • Ged

      We’ve seen Rossi displaying a hot cat to a great many people, and we’ve seen the hot cat while in operation, both visibly and through IR. I’m not sure what tangibles you are wanting for.

      I can understand and agree with the frustration in wanting to have a third party waving it around and trumpeting it, and that timeline continuing to push back, but I disagree with the sentiment that that is somehow in Rossi’s hands alone. Even a University report will be released according to their time table and whims, nothing Rossi can do about it. Similarly, anyone who buys a E-cat/hot cat doesn’t have to display it if they don’t feel like it, or let anyone know about, and so what can Rossi do?

      Sure, a lot of this is on him, but I think people have forgotten Rossi doesn’t control the world, and there is a onus on others to bring out information to light. Even so though, we’ve had information leaked to us or given directly such as Zurich, or the UniBo reports from nearly two years ago, or the SGS certificate. That is all data we can munch on, and is all tangible information that shows the device has some substance.

  • Vudu

    Dear Dr. Rossi,

    what is bad on business model of U.K. company ARM ?

    They develop ARM CPU plus MALI GPU and this IP is sell as licence to some 60 companies as nVidia, Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung etc.

    Even your control hardware use this ARM CPU chip. Some companies slightly advance this architecture, some add own GPU.
    Yearly is produced some 2 billions pieces of these ARM chips. ARM don’t own manufactures (in your words: they are “generals without army”).

    Whole world need some 50-150 million E-cat devices of all shapes PER YEAR.

    Your way is way of First Solar (FSLR) company which slowly build own manufactures and all was proprietary and no licence to sell. Dear Dr. Rossi, look at graph/chart of FSLR and you will see your future (with own manufactures added every year and no licence to sell).

  • Jaddeal

    I was 100% beliver in Rossi, but now its start to change. Iam trying to ask qustions on JONP few times about low temp 1MW plant deliveries and other concrete promises and what happends? it gets DELETED because he dont want to answer.

  • Renzo

    I see we have many new trolls here! Please note this last announcement is unrelated to the sales of the current model of 1MW plants or to the indipedent tests underway. So nothing has changed in the timeline.

    This news means that integration with existing power plants and electricity production will arrive sooner that expected.

    • Vudu

      Dear Renzo,

      1. Existing powerplants will go bankrupt within 6-8 years timeframe even without Rossi invention

      2. Your note about nothing changes in timeline – So WHEN will some publishing of independent tests or some validation ? Clearly for minimalization of losses to the world.

  • freethinker

    Andrea Rossi is a shrewd entrepreneur,

    entangled in a fantastic business idea that will make him a fortune and put him and his company in the lime light. If all things goes his way, that is. He is working very hard for it to be so.

    The public angle of Rossi’s is by choice and necessity. He is taking on a formidable force in the established energy industry and MUST have a public power base, and seemingly be working in the open. Thus we, as a not so scientifically gifted english major recently put it, the “acolytes of cold fusion” (not her’s phrase originally, I think) are simply convenient to Andrea Rossi, on the road to the End Game.

    Maybe Sterling Allan is right, that Rossi is a man of god, or at least a god fearing man. It does not matter – he is an entrepreneur working towards some end game, that will not include the “acolytes of cold fusion”, and that is governed by the basic principles of making business and do engineering – not a heart.

    He will continue to spread whimsical information blended with hard facts in his blog. He will continue to string us on, having the end game in his mind but also, I think, because it satisfies him on some personal level as well to tell us some information about the advances he makes, without actually considering himself to be accountable for what he writes in his blog.

    He is also allowed to do so by the powers behind him, as it serve a purpose – to keep him in the light, making it more difficult to sweep him and the Leonardo company under some rug by the big established industry of energy.
    We, the acolytes, are in fact his alibi, his assurance.

    But – I do not hold any of this against him. I think this is what to be expected. So far I think he has played this game very well, even though he has been driving me half mad sometimes with his antics.

    So why am I ranting about this? Well, because there is so much hope in most people “believing” – I guess, like myself. A revaluation is in order.

    There will most likely not be any home devices made with ECAT – not ever.

    Again – I do not hold that against him. It would be a monumental thing, if it could be so, but I have a really hard time see it happen.

    I do however think he have the goods. Maybe not quite on the level he let on at times, but he have the goods. There will be paying customers. There will be success. But it will have to be played out the way it is – in a large and an industrial scale.

    We may discuss all we want about how this will change the world – it sure does have the potential, made free to everyone – but all things counted (and William of Ockham would agree, I think) – it will not play out as many desire.

    There are many benefits with what Andrea Rossi is doing. Especially if he succeeds. It will certainly help open up the damp and smelly basement to which real scientists have been relegated, that is already happening to some extent. From it there is an implicit promise of further development and competition from other players – not only those we see lining up at the starter pole today.

    I think that the we, the acolytes of cold fusion, should more or less ignore Andrea Rossi, as has been suggested in this blog elsewhere. When there is hard facts, we may choose to applause, and when there is whimsical and lofty information, we may laugh.

    But we should not take it seriously. Not until there actually are real plants, run by real energy companies. It will give us a cleaner world, if not a new and better world.

  • daniel maris

    Rossi needs to demonstrate these products actually exist and are ready to ship. He hasn’t done that yet. It really shouldn’t be that difficult.

    • John-xyz

      I agree, but I just have this feeling that something will come along that will delay the process. I got this feeling by reading the archives here. Examples:

      18/4/11 R. says he will lend e-cats to Uo. Stockholm and Uo. Uppsala for testing

      30/4/11 R. says production of heating e-cat will start very soon

      12/5/11 R. says testing by Nov ’11 at Uo. Uppsala and Uo. Bologna

      16/5/11 R. and Ampenergo make agreement about marketing to Americas (Ampenergo seems to be out of business in 2012)

      • daniel maris

        Fair comment.

  • walker

    For those of you with a little bit of research skills or even just following some the articles in here to their sources, you would know that Rossi’s Leonardo Corp is packed to the rafters with with American movers and shakers from the DOE, DOD and NASA.

    That would be why the Hot-Cat is being built in America.

    As to some dumb blond bint in Scientific American who says “it is not our job to read Scientific Papers” if you take notice of such people you deserve to be stupid as she is.

    • Peter_Roe

      What’s wrong with being blond(e)? I can’t really argue with the rest.

    • Timar

      Yes, the article is beneath contempt – but that doesn’t entitle you to make disgusting sexist comments about its author.

      • walker

        I refer you to the reply above.

    • Garry

      The distraction about fair haired double X-ers aside… could you point to some of the DOE/DOD and NASA movers and shakers that your research has unearthed? Not dissing you, but it sounds like important & positive evidence.

  • Bruno

    Another secret customer, I presume?

    • georgehants

      Ah, Bruno you seem like the perfect candidate to reply to my comment above.
      I look forward to your reply, as you could become famous as the guy who showed the Evidence for Rossi et al not having some substantial Cold Fusion device.

      • Beau

        The burden of proof is on the claimant. You can not ask for proof that something does not exist.

        • jacob

          I believe Mr. Rossi is making great progress,butI have to wonder about all the disruptive ,negative comment coming from people we know nothing about,who’s biggest accomplishments in their lives would be filling thousands of diapers.

          Rossi has brought on this LENR technology,all those who confirmed LENR Cold Fusion works,have simply copied his work and concepts.

          • hempenearth

            I hope the “big power production and distribution plant” doesn’t buy and install the 1MW Hot Cat and then announce to the world that it doesn’t work! Good insurance for Rossi would be to have at least one other 1 MW Hot Cat sold to say a building developer without a vested interest in selling other forms of energy.

          • Thomas

            Why should they say that? The main interest is to make money and if they can make more money by using ecats, why shouldn’t they do that?

          • captain

            It’s understood that the first Hot Plant is only the beginning of a long series.

          • kwhilborn

            Oil companies will lose 99.9% of their business once this technology takes over. Some think vested parties have been and will conspire to bury technologies that will hurt profits.

            I think anyone invested in oil also is diversified enough nowadays that they also own Coca-cola and McDonalds so they can absorb a portion of their portfolio fading away. They are also probably mostly elderly and are more concerned about their planet and progeny living in a clean air world. However that is just a hope.

          • Rockyspoon

            Just think of how much better victims of Sandy would have been if most houses had a miniature Hot Cat running? While some homes were destroyed, those people could go to neighbors that had hot water, electricity, and warm homes.

            The utility companies just might let neighborhoods running Hot Cats stay that way–the reconstruction costs wouldn’t be worth it.

            2013 will be the year of the Hot Cat.

          • stuey81

            didnt F&P come up with it and rossi copied their concept in actual fact?

          • Karl

            This kind of ignorant comments are just silly. You better stop with it. Any one involved in real R&D learn from the past.

          • jacob

            but who actually built a working unit in the KW’s …….ROSSI

          • jacob

            not ignorant ,but reality

          • Omega Z

            stuey81

            Actually the concept predates P&F.

            All have built on others previous knowledge.

          • captain

            Rossi succeded because he tried to go against some rules of the known official physics. That’s the point.

          • Rockyspoon

            F & P did some great groundwork, but even they weren’t the first to investigate “cold fusion”. Farnsworth, the inventor of television, was working on the “fusor” when he passed away.

            And there were others before Farnsworth.

            But Rossi’s concept, while building on F & P, is different in the materials used and the approach taken.

  • georgehants

    Ha, I see we have a gang of the intellectually deep thinkers on page today.
    I for one am certainly impressed with their deep and profound reasoning.
    They should have no trouble grasping and answering a very simple question.
    —Can you please put up the clear Evidence that shows that Rossi et al are not genuine.
    I do not mean your opinions but clear indisputable Evidence.
    As soon as you put this up on page I will stop waiting for the Truth to materialise, and agree you have done us all a favour.
    If you cannot now put up that clear Evidence then it may be a good idea to go back to sleep until the picture becomes more clear and defined.

    • phlarbeer

      There is, I believe, no doubt a 1+ unity, EROEI+, COP 6+, etc proposition exists with LENR, or whatever that process H+Ni^ may be named (but not CF different issue), trick is to demonstrate emphatically that it has been tamed an has reasonable prospects of ready for use [RFU]consumption.

    • phlarbeer

      OOps re-post sorry.

  • Morgan

    Rossi keeps talking about things being manufactured in the US? Didn’t some nuclear inspector go to see what was going on and he found that Rossi was not manufacturing ANYTHING in the US and Rossi even told him he was not making anything in the US? WTF IS GOING ON!?!?!?!

    • georgehants

      Morgan, interesting point but why ask what is going on, if you have some Evidence you tell us.

      • john_missouri

        sounds like Morgan is having another hissy fit )

        • GreenWin

          Might I suggest a retreat to ecatnews?? They share your remorse and tattered dignity.

        • Jim

          Simple solution Morgan: configure your browser to block this site.

          • GreenWin

            But then Morgan’s assignment would be over.

        • Peter_Roe

          I think we need to show some sympathy for the poor trolls. After all, they’re just trying to do their jobs, but they seem to have less and less to work with, and have to keep repeating themselves to fill the space. My heart goes out to them.

          • Morgan

            what? I believe LENR is real. I just think Rossi is lying…

          • captain

            I believe that U are in the wrong blog here, all the best in other sites.

    • Um, that was some months ago before Rossi even had come up with the hot-cat. WTF is likely going on is that things change with time. Further, Rossi is talking about introducing one hot-cat. Thats somewhat different than having a production line.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    October 31st, 2012 at 4:09 PM
    Dear Gian Luca:
    Allow me to correct you: our patent is still pending. The EPO just asked us more information and our attorneys are working on it. Patents of this kind of complexity are normally subject to many discussions, which can last years.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • captain

      George, have U noticed how this blog is going day after day more polluted by trolls?

      IMO this is not a good behaviour: hopefully Frank can remedy to this situation!

      BTW Rossi knows wery well was he has to do: he’s unstoppable. His hot plants, brevets and patents pending or not pending, it’s enough with a safety certifications only now as now to flood the industrial market and shut skeptics mouth.
      And very soon the energy production at very low cost will open minds of USPTO and UL in US and similarly in EU.

      In the meantime, Frank plz try to moderate here what needs to be moderated. Unless…

      • Miles

        +1. I’m not much of a forum poster (but a daily eager reader) yet some of the posts are just waffle/ridicule or BS.

        On topic: I’m sure 2013 will be a great year I feel for the 1MW Hot cat. News slowly coming in from Rossi “agreement signed”. I was hoping for a juicy announcement before end of 2012 :/

        As for the 10kw e-Cat, I don’t think the http://www.e-cataustralia.com website (or Rossi) will make or have an e-cat for the mid 2013 product for households to use, even though I’ve got my name down on their waiting list.

  • georgehants

    In my opinion not a very helpful reply from Mr. Rossi.
    —–
    tom conover
    October 31st, 2012 at 1:47 PM
    Dear Mr. Rossi,
    Thank you for the exciting news about the sale of a hot cat plant, and also for the internal ecat validation report. I know it is not in your control when a third party report will be published, but you must have emailed or phoned the third party as any business person would have to obtained a recent statement from this party as to their latest estimate of a release date for this report. When do they think this report will be produced? If they haven’t checked with them lately, will you please do so for us? Many are saying “delay, promise, delay, new date, delay, new date” and while I personally think great progress is being made, should I continue to plan on this tech becoming available for “We the PEOPLE” within perhaps 2 – 5 years or so?
    The idiot from Forbes is getting under my skin with his sarcasm, and there appears to be a possibly very very long time remaining to wait before the e-cat is vindicated, can you think of any way to soothe this angst? I will continue to believe, because I want to, and even because I must.
    Sometimes, though, all it takes is one tiny mustard seed to move a mountain!
    I hopefully await a reply from you, kind sir. Regardless, keep up the good work.
    Warm regards,
    Tom Conover
    ——
    Andrea Rossi
    October 31st, 2012 at 4:13 PM
    Dear Tom Conover:
    We always maintained the scheduling we said and we always did what we said we should have done.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Rockyspoon

      Helpful to whom?

      Rossi just wants to be left alone so he can get his business going.

      I’m surprised Rossi comments as much as he does–if it were me, I’d go silent but continue to build Hot Cats.

      What’s not to love?

  • Andrea Rossi
    October 31st, 2012 at 8:40 PM
    Dear Daniel G. Zavela:
    I think that Jennifer Oulette is right, as well as are right the Journalist of Forbes et Al: they are just saying: ” please do something that really works, and we will be happy to know”. I would say the same thing at their place.
    This is why I think chatters are useless. We have to put plants in operation. The sole plant we made cannot be published, but soon we will deliver civil plants. Why lose time in chatters? The attention of professional scientific Journalists is anyway positive, they are giving us attention. Obviously they want to have evidence and evidence can come only from plants in operation, because theoretical chatters and laboratory results can only raise confusion. “All we need is plants” (eventually love will be granted).
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Karl

      Pekka,
      I think it’s a good comment by Rossi and as he knows that he can make such a statement. Once he will come out in the media light with his products, he will need also current deniers to go him. And of course there will be many snakes that will shift skin that day.

      Following Cold Fusion evolvement fairly closely but on the side line, I disagree with Rossi on the one eyed tone of the article by Jennifer Oulette and that she refuses to accept comments on her blog from top Cold Fusion scientists like Ed Storms.

      I must say I have some sympathy for Mark Gibbs, Forbes and I believe his engagement have spread the message that something is about to happen in the area of Cold Fusion, which is of course not only about Rossi even though he plays a very important role.

      Rossi has said from the first time I head him about 2 years ago, that he need to deliver working products on the market instead of becoming obstacle by the corrupted main stream scientific community. I can understand his reluctance to show everything for anyone to early but rather keep the interest on a hot level. Form my judgement, it appears now it seems to go according to plan for him and that should be god for us all that wants a real breakthrough in this segment.

      • captain

        … And of course there will be many snakes that will shift skin that day…

        Their skins to be … recycled to make lady handbags in Leopard corp…

        • Karl

          Perhaps a good business opportunity:)

    • georgehants

      Clear that Mr. Rossi is very aware that he has not given clear indisputable Evidence of any E-Cat device.
      Therefore all his sometimes strange actions point to a very good reason, in his opinion, for the delay.

    • kwhilborn

      Never; will Rossi want published analyses of his work. Not until the catalyst and other such secrets find themselves common knowledge. Already people suspect the catalyst is Potassium, but it is unconfirmed.

      Instead of home units, Rossi proceeded with the Hot cat and will fulfill huge multiple orders to large corporations or governments that he thinks can be trusted to keep the secrets involved.

      Secrecy is necessary.

      We are talking about a device that is very simple technically with no moving parts except for possibly a loading door. A flashlight from your local dollar store is more complicated to build.

      Once working plans become public then blackmarket ecats will become commonplace. Thousands of people who lost their “solar power” jobs and other green tech jobs might start building them in their basements. You could be caught driving down the street with a thousand ecats in your truck and if you got searched you would have nothing illegal.

      The Chinese will look like rookies when it comes to reproducing this technology as it will be built freely under the noses of police and authorities. What protection does Rossi have? Can he catch and sue everyone building these?

      The ecat will start a building boom unlike any other in history, and that includes building the ecats themselves.

      I think that the responsible thing for mankind would have been to release this open source from the get go, but Andrea Rossi viewed it as dollar signs instead of lives saved via fresh air, lives saved from desalination, and laves saved from possibly reversing global warming.

      Now he has investors so dollar signs will rule the day.

      This means you have a hope in hell of EVER seeing a home unit until Blackmarket ones already exist. It really is common senses. Just think of it for a while.

    • LCD

      The piece by krivit was like the blind leading the blind there.

      Krivit [paraphrased]”I was sure it was cold fusion but realized I was wrong and now I’m sure it’s WL so believe me. So if you consider that in your article you’d have more credibility”

      What??

      • Rockyspoon

        Krivit has cold fusion envy.

        End of story.

  • Bill Hill

    Time for a grand demonstration that Edison or Tesla would be proud of? Why not find a large open air swimming pool, place a large 1MW unit right next to it, connect up the mains and show that the Ecat can heat the water for an extended period of time, days or weeks, while only costing a few $$$ to run. Now I think that would silence any critics?

    • LCD

      It is almost an art to come up with a TV/Showroom demo that cannot be argued as fake.

      • Robert Mockan

        Critics and skeptics would claim somebody photoshopped the demo, and that data from the demo needed verification. The problem is not lack of evidence. Understanding anything new takes effort to learn, and time.

    • Rockyspoon

      As a businessman, if I were constructing Hot Cats, your request would be the last thing considered.

      Why?

      It doesn’t add to my “bottom line”–there are enough people willing to try it out after a personal demo that there’s no need to make anybody proud, Bill.

      In fact, why convince the skeptics of the world when all that would do is bring their wrath down on your head?

      I’m pretty sure you don’t have any stock in any company for which the demo you suggest would have any impact–you’re just hypothesizing regarding a non-existing problem.

      Have you ever heard Rossi complain that nobody takes him seriously?

      Neither have I.