Distributed Power Production a Huge E-Cat Benefit

In addition to the cost benefits that the E-Cat can bring, another tremendously important aspect of this technology is that is highly suited to allowing for distributed power production. The benefits of this are starkly apparent when we look at the aftermath of natural disasters like we are seeing in the post-Sandy chaos in the northeastern United States.

Four days after the storm there are still 3.3 million customers without electricity, and it could be weeks before power is fully restored. Centralized production of electricity requires that power be transmitted over long distances, and restoring power following a widespread storm of great power can take a great deal of time as transmission lines have to be reconnected. This is especially time consuming and labor intensive in large countries like the US where the grid spans thousands of miles, and much of the electricity transmission is via overhead wires rather than buried cable.

With a technology like the E-Cat there is a real possibility that the model of electricity production could change. There is the possibility of heat and power production at home. In a post-disaster scenario, this would be ideal. If your power plant was in your basement or outside your house, unless it was physically damaged your power would be available during and after a natural disaster. And even if home-based electricity generation is not possible or permitted, it would still be very feasible to have local power production — perhaps a plant for every small town, or even one for each housing subdivision or apartment building. Such an arrangement would mean that power losses would be much more isolated than they are now, especially if you could eliminate the need for overhead power lines which are the most susceptible to damage in high winds or heavy icing.

If we finally get to a point where there is a realization that the E-Cat is a real and viable source of power, its benefits will be obvious, and I am sure that when consumers, businesses and governments look at the possibilities it allows, distributed power generation will be one of its most attractive features. People who have lived through events like hurricane Sandy will likely be strong advocates of implementing a better way to produce and distribute power.

  • Omega Z

    John Bull

    Where are you. Not First.

    • Peter

      And maybe DC power? Food for thought.
      Sorry, I can’t move this. It was not meant as a reply.

    • My comment now is at least the lowest…

      • Jim

        Well, I couldn’t resist..

        • clovis

          SORRY GUYS
          i’m first, — to say great article frank, –smile

          • clovis

            First on the bottom that is, i’m like the weak force no one hardly notices, but i have great power.- smile

          • Omega Z

            Clovis

            Still room at the bottom

  • daniel maris

    If the technology is real, then you are right. Distributed power will transform power economics and energy security.

    • Gordon Docherty

      OK, sorry to use the “D” word on the e-cat site, but it does bode well for LENR, even if it is rather harsh on Rossi’s work, and it is an article in Forbes magazine, quite mainstream I believe… http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/10/20/cold-fusion-gets-a-little-more-real/

      So, in the words of Sydney Carter, one more step along the road I go…

      • Peter_Roe

        mmm – From memory I’d say that Mr Gibb’s article may have been ‘updated’ rather more thoroughly than the lined-out correction of Nelson’s sponsoring organisation might indicate. The ‘Rossi fan boy’ stuff seems to have gone completely. Gibbs is beginning to reposition himself by the looks of it, possibly so he will not look like quite such a bigoted mainstream stooge when Rossi (or even DGT or Blacklight) hits the markets.

        Has the word gone out in the MSM? (I doubt it, but one can hope).

        • clovis

          Hi, Pete.
          I say amnesty, for all, that want to ride the lenr train,-woo- woo

          • Peter_Roe

            Personally I would prefer to see something more akin to the Nuremburg trials I’m afraid.

            BTW that’s a rather unfortunate choice of ‘train sound’!

        • Omega Z

          Peter

          Your Right. Gibbs has cleaned it up a bit. Now if he does additional investigating, Some of us might even find it fair. Considering he’s a reporter & should be unbiased.

          I’ll cut him some slack. He actually pushed back on one posting on the call-outs.

          Mark Gibbs

          “Jaysan: While there are many players in the alternative energy market who are, without doubt, out-and-out frauds, the topic is so big that some of them must be real researchers. A fraction of those claim results and will be mistaken for one reason or another while a smaller number will never find anything. An even smaller subgroup might hit pay dirt … My point is that to declare “these people are most certainly fakes” would, for now at least, seem too sweeping a judgment.”

          • Peter_Roe

            Omega

            Yes the ‘revised’ Gibbs article does seem to about as good as MSM reporting gets (damning with faint praise!). If it wasn’t for Gibbs’ history of sneering I suppose I’d probably applaud the current version as a step in the direction of factual reporting. It’ll be interesting to see if it’s a ‘glitch’ in his normal pattern, or if future articles follow a new direction.

    • GreenWin

      Thank you Admin for an excellent article. Paradigm change demands more than just advanced technology. We have to carefully plan how to implement the technology in daily life. As Frank notes, natural disasters clearly demonstrate the dangers of old centralized grids (smart or stupid.) As seen with the East Coast hurricane, power outages are primary examples. After 24 hours of power loss refrigerated food begins to spoil – adding millions of $$ loss to storm damage.

      IMO a plausible rollout of LENR power systems is in three stages:

      1) Industrial applications for CHP at the 1-50MW level. These units would be dedicated to a single business, manufacturer, industry. Hot-cat subsystems provide process heat, hot water, chiller air/water, and electricity.

      2) District CHP systems serving a group of industries or businesses like the Texas Medical Center (14 hospitals, 9 schools) at 50MW – 1GW. Supported by US Dept. of Energy and DOD.

      3) Micro-grids providing UPS backup & conditioning services to neighborhood residences equipped with micro-CHP systems.

      Secretary Chu and the DOE already support the District CHP concept. In February, Dr. Chu visited TECO – a non-profit firm engineering District combined heat and power systems. http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9165794.htm

      While District CHP is ideal for Universities, municipal buildings and industries like the medical center – it requires a large power system.

      Micro-grids service the home CHP by networking neighbors for the purpose of load balance and emergency backup. If 10 micro-grid customers are flooded, their neighbors’ systems contribute a portion of their excess to provide uninterrupted service.

      Centralized power generation is vulnerable to multiple failure scenarios. With district, distributed, and micro-grids – even a disaster such as hurricane Sandy could be managed without major power losses. There is safety in numbers. Which is why for all the nail-biting and teeth gnashing over the home e-cat (and equivalents) – micro-CHP WILL enter the market.

      The only question is, how long will communities cling to their old, vulnerable ways?

    • Petrol

      This is akin to daydreaming about winning the lotto. Our dreams only matter in the real world if we actually win.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        To fantasize about the lottery pretty much requires the purchase of a ticket. Rossi, so far, has been cheaper, and to the extent that he raises the blood pressure of skeptics, makes it even more entertaining.

        • HeS

          Excelent, long soap opera. Like “The Bold and the Beautiful”:)

        • GreenWin

          Ig, the pathsceps next door are now so demoralized, they have indulged in group Seppuku. OTOH, high blood pressure in skeps is good news for the makers of Lipitor (the best selling drug in pharmaceutical history!)

          • LilyLover

            The next door does not carry Seppuku-worthy self esteem.
            If only they did.

        • Petrol

          Not cheaper if you happen to be an investor/distributor.

          • Ged

            Hence why those people need those backroom proofs that the majority of us do not get to see, before they invest their money.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    I bet that LENR generators at the electric substation level will be practical. Electric rates may get so cheap that most homeowners will not bother with a micro-unit except in remote locations.

    • Pedro

      I’m not sure about that… I think there is a huge difference between the cost of production of electricity and the sales price. Let’s assume the cost price is 4 cents/KWh and the sales price is 20 cents/KWh. If the cost price drops to 1 cent and they pass the total saving on to the customers (would they really???) then the sales price will become 17 cents, a reduction of only 15%. If they have a lot of investments in the power plant, which they are still writing of, the saving in fuel costs will even be less significant because they still have to payoff the initial investment in the old plant.
      I think the only way we will get a big part of the saving is if we have new local energy plants (home or village level) without all the overhead of the existing grid and old power plants.

      • GreenWin

        Pedro, good points. This is why the DOE’s program to develop district CHP systems dovetails nicely with the new technology. A system like the one Secretary Chu visited in Texas, powered by LENR instead of NG, could easily cut energy costs by 50% possibly 75%. LENR power plants providing in-situ CHP services will be the first to go public.

        A good example is the 4.6MW co-generation system at Bank of America Tower in Manhattan. They might have been one of the only buildings not blacked out by Sandy. http://contractormag.com/news/bank-america-plant-2345

      • Omega Z

        Pedro

        I fully expect them to keep most of the gain for some time. As you say, To recover upfront costs, But also for dismantling costs of the Old System. The cost savings will only gradually pasted on.

        I still see immediate relief coming in the Form of Future increases being nullified. I’ve seen a chart,(Dummy me didn’t tab it) that shows rates where I live going to 40 cents a Kwh over the next 10 years verses 12 cents now. Incidentally, long-term chart went to $1 per Kwh.

        It’s The End Of The World As We Know It- If LENR doesn’t Fly.

    • GreenWin

      Iggy, consider the path of refrigeration. The west relied on the Ice Man right up until around 1926 when the first home fridge went on sale. The Ice Industry saw the handwriting and attempted to compete by lowering rates.

      But the cost of making ice, hauling it to homes via horse & wagon, and general overhead was still more than a home fridge over time. IF a utility could compete via sub-station AND provide reliable uninterrupted service, AND make money at 1/2 of 1 cent per kWh… okay. At some point it begins to look like guys trying to sell fresh air.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Home refrigerators were not common until after WW2 in my area. I know because my dad made a fortune selling appliances in the late ’40s. Modern appliances would have come sooner but all industrial production was reserved for military production during the war.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          I well remember the iceman. People displayed in their window a square card with the numbers 5, 10, 15, & 20 on the 4 edges. Which ever number you displayed at the top edge indicated the size block of ice in pounds. The iceman was usually the strongest man in town and there were lots of iceman (lover)jokes.

          • GreenWin

            Don’t remember that part. But our local iceman remained active selling “party” ice – for making ice cream (hand cranked) and ethanol consumers. LENR will be just another appliance sooner or later. Better than Dr. Emmet Brown’s Mr. Fusion!

      • clovis

        Hi, GreenWin,
        I have always said from the very start, that i hoped one day
        You could have all the energy you needed to do what ever motivated you, and it would be as free and clean as the air you breath, ,ahaaaaa.

      • Omega Z

        GreenWin

        Years ago we use to set around talking about taxes & joked that the next thing the Government would try to tax would be Air to Breath.

        Well, they finally figure out how. Cap & Trade.

  • Vau dau

    Common folks without economic education don’t want understand one thing:

    These breakthrough technologies firstly will cause asstronomic loosses in value of assets, equities etc of hundreds big companies.

    Even now EVERY DAY which Rossi reffused to publish this simply news:

    “We have new tech with these parameters, here are 3 seals from XYZ”

    every one such day are loosses for World in sum around 8.8 biillion dollars,
    because these sources go every day into now obbssolete projects around world.
    It is as investing biillions into bow and arrows businesses, when Rossi has machine gun.

    I fully respect his IP rights, however these behhavior is acceptable when you have some new model of lawnmover, no so when you have paraadigm shift technology. This is oldfasshioned sort of extrreme recckklessness and paatthologgical level of grrreed – all in perfect compliance with law, of course.

    To positive benefits: all ffolks know these will coming with some time delay after cruushing loosses above mentioned.

    Who does not understand me (except Roozzi and aaadmin) ?

    • jacob

      you are all Vau Dau up about Mr Rossi,pointing the finger to the wrong culprit.

  • andreiko

    Let op Japan !!

    • Andreiko

      Please note Japan!!

  • Roger Bird

    So, I searched this page for the strings “coronal”, “sun”, and “flare”, and I got no hits. So I know that no one mentioned the inevitable, the future, what is going to happen. Not if, but when. A big, fat, 1859 version of a Coronal Mass Ejection aimed right at my beloved planet. Not if. But when. And LENR will go a long way to keeping us from having to fall back to technology of around circa 1859 A.D.

    • GreenWin

      Such a different tune than your comment next door! Have a great evening Roger!

      • Roger Bird

        Greenwin, you win. I read the title of the article wrong. LENR will be the salvation of the world, but probably not the E-Cat. (:->)

        • GreenWin

          Forget it rog, this world is terminally bipolar!! You gotta luv it!!

    • Renzo

      I agree that a new “Carrington event” is one of the worst nightmare I can imagine. And it would be much much worse than simply wiping out 3/4 of earth population for famine and desease: imagine what will happen once all the reserve generators of nuclear power plants are out of fuel…

  • GreenWin

    For an inspirational look at how distributed CHP (cogeneration) can work in the material world – here’s high rise One Bryant Park, a Manhattan skyscraper with its own 4.6MW CHP cogeneration facility. While this provides about 70% of the building’s energy needs, it is a practical example of new energy systems.

    http://construction.com/ce/articles/0803edit-5.asp

    Imagine replacing the gas-fired boilers with a hot-cat NewFire array. While the rest of the city lay in darkness, THIS one innovation kept the light, heat and electrical services ON.

    • jacob

      unreal ,had no idea at all,then how easy these chp systems can be converted by the Hot- Cat

      • GreenWin

        @jacob… The U.S. Department of Energy and it’s Chief Secretary Steve Chu, endorse the use of district CHP systems like the one used here at One Bryant Park. But the deniers don’t want you to know this. They will make promises about credit and how concerned they are, and then not follow through. The most rudimentary elements of honesty somehow escape this species.

        It is rather sad actually. As it confirms that purportedly evolved “lifeforms” are little more than deceptive, self-serving solipsists masquerading as teachers. The operative message here is: You will never teach anything until you can be rigorously honest yourself.

        Still, it’s all good. Even when the student is the master.

        • jacob

          when I started school in germany at 6 years old I was excited ,to learn all there is to know about everything,i was disappointed as this was not the case,and considered school babysit.
          but as it stands now,the biggest obstacle of my understanding is my education.
          My education had taught me that is was impossible to get overunity in any system.
          My teachers were wrong,and my teachers were taught wrong by universities.
          Why does knowledge have to be controlled? ther was a time when I believed what I had learned.

  • Chris

    This would have to wait until Rossi is not the only dude producing something viable.

    I saw the whole of the Pordenone videos on Prometheon’s site and, at the end of it, he confirmed what I’ve been thinking for a while; he does not intend to sell in large volume for fear of his secret getting out. He is willing to deliver to only about 1% of prospective that are knocking on his door, for reasons of trust. He was also asked about sales to electric utilities and this revealed something I hadn’t anticipated which dismayed me much; he says they are not keen at all on converting existing plants, due to the red tape that is required for authorizing things.

    Seems like we can’t expect to see such a rapid evolution in the near future.

    • Omega Z

      Chris

      In the Business World, this is a short term situation. When it’s time to replace or rebuild an Existing System or build a new one for increased demand, the Cost of the E-cat will be much cheaper. That’s what they’ll use. Red tape wont be a problem as the red tape will be a involved regardless. In the States, Red Tape for a New Nuclear Plant can take 10 years. 2 to 5 for everything Else.

      In the U.S., most of our plants are near end of life cycle. The E-cats will be phased in. Mostly as I would expect it to be.

      Rossi just speaks in General. A more Worldly View. He realizes it’s going to take along time to gear up just to meet New Demand. The Old will be replaced gradually.
      Cell phones took a long time to become mainstream. Note that Land Lines still exist & when they are totally replaced it will be more land lines only Fiber-optic.

      • land like have higher bandwidth than air.

        in emerging countries like indonesia, people use 3g instead of DSL.

        • Omega Z

          Yes, And in the U.S. we are fast running out of bandwidth by Air. 10 Year projections require 4 times more bandwidth then Exists. People will either be rationed service or plug into a fiber-optic line.

    • Peter_Roe

      Until Rossi can get some form of IP protection, this seems to be a sensible strategy from his POV. By selling to a few buyers such as the US Navy or a large power plant operator (but probably in large numbers) he can arrange for various security measures to be put in place that will minimise the risk of the IP being compromised, at least in the short term.

      As he seems unwilling to apply for patents for his central secrets, presumably for fear of hijacking before patents can be considered, this is the only course left open to him. Of course, it will create a strangled market, and the pressure for alternatives will surely be met quickly, as the ‘secrets’ of the hot cat are almost certainly very simple and easily replicated, given just a few more clues.

      There is also the possibility that Rossi has been forced to compromise with vested energy interests in order to get anything at all to market, and such very limited sales may be a part of such a compromise (as would be the dropping of the home e-cat idea). If he gets the introduction of CF wrong, he could find himself swept away by competitors or just by an impatient market, or he could find himself the target of physical attempts to eliminate him. Its a balancing act I don’t envy him.

      • Chris

        I had no doubt about what his reason is, you might even notice that I had said: “he confirmed what I’ve been thinking for a while” which meant it was no surprise to me. I simply find it unfortunate.

        As for the details, there are a few touch-and-go aspects. Did it really make no sense to di his patent application properly? IMHO what he did makes no sense, relying on secrecy is his very problem. I don’t think the patenting system is such that an inventor must be scared to make his application properly.

        That said, keeping to the status quo that he only has a secret, with the problem that it can’t be kept inside his fence but inherently must be delivered within his wares, it isn’t so easy to say what his best strategy is. Especially considering that he said 1% which is a very low fraction, market-wise. No doubt he should serve the most trustworthy first; but then what? Sell no more? Of course not!

        So I think that, whether now or at a judiciously chosen point, he ought to simply be prepared to sell as much and as quickly as possible and expect his secret to be let out, with himself having the prime position in the market. This goes (at the very least) as far as having already made all the preparations and also being the name by antonomasia. He should give primary importance to his registered name and logo.

        Very recently I attended an event, all about IP and licensing, for people with a product, design or service to market and manage. Here is one of the many interesting things that the experts told us: Gatorade’s patent has looooong expired, yet they still have an annual revenue of US$ 9 million from licensing alone! Yup, cuz they still own the brand name. The original formula can now be produced and sold by anybody, but who hasn’t heard the name Gatorade? Who doesn’t associate it with beverage having that purpose? The only thing that competitors can’t do without their licence is to call it by the same name. Go figure.

        • Chris

          Rats! Edit time expired.

          I meant to add that the event focussed very much on international licensing and marketing.

  • freethinker

    Dear admin.

    I do appreciate the site, and also I realize that this is your blog and you can delete any entry coming in, if you do not like them. So. Done with the preamble

    I have recently submitted two posting to your blog. One original and one as a response. They were both lengthy and a bit argumentative. For me to feel compelled to offer my opinion, or information, I need to understand why I get rejected. Is it length, my language, my opinion, or what?

    Plz inform.

    • I am not the admin here, but am the admin on a similar site. Most times that long posts go into moderation is because they contain too many links. Automatic spam detectors often kick out comments that have more than one or two links. Could this be the issue?

      The other kind of automatic spam detection is meaningless “you are wonderful” drivel, especially if there is a website associated, but that doesn’t sound like you.

      Frank is a pretty generous moderator. If he nixed your posts for being argumentative, they were probably pretty strong.

      • freethinker

        Nope. No links. As I know Frank to be generous with regards to comments, I really would like to know why those two postings, on same topic, were rejected.

        They were a bit argumentative, to my understanding not to a point that should cause a problem. To understand the limits and rules of engagement is important as writing something you feel important to voice sometimes take time – and I dont want to waste time on rejects.

        • Jim

          You sound pretty rational. Maybe keep the posts shorter, and phrase your ideas as propositions, hypotheses or questions instead of suggestions.

          “Long” and “argumentative” unfortunately suggests an agenda, and those get detected pretty quickly here.

          And attempting to prove Rossi is invalid by stringing together a list of perceived inconsistencies (which I’m not saying you’re doing) is self-defeating. There are many more pathways for things to occur in the world, and many more errors committed, than we ever care to admit to

          Dialog, inquiry and idea exchange seem to be the happy mix.

        • Omega Z

          freethinker

          I think it’s just Ghosts in the Machine.
          I’ve seen & made posts that get Moderated. Short, Long, no key words, no links. No problem. And they do get posted eventually.

          At request, Frank has passed some threw that had no obvious problems.

          I’ve seen some pop up immediately with what some think are key words with no problem. Like I said. Ghosts.

        • Peter_Roe

          I also find some my posts auto-moderated on a fairly regular basis, and in the majority of cases I have absolutely no idea why. Frank usually ‘passes’ them after a short time, but the occasional post just stays ‘in moderation’ indefinitely.

          If I get a whole load one after another (as sometimes seems to happen) I usually PM Admin to point out what is happening. and he will normally find and ‘clear’ them manually, right away. The auto moderation software just seems to occasionally ‘go off on one’ for no discernible reason.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I think it likely existing power plants will be retrofitted with LENR generators first. My reasoning is:

    – MW LENR generators are more likely to get approved for centralized power plants as the certification requirements are not as stringent and disaster control scenarios already exist for those plants (assuming Rossi’s 1 MW barrel generator or someone else his MW generator will be successful)
    – Unlimited LENR devices plugged into the global power distribution net could easily overload the net. I can’t imagine it’s a good idea to start flooding the net with the excess power of a millions of LENR reactors. The power distribution net should probably be updated massively before a completely de-centralized power grid is possible and excess power can be shunted to wherever it is needed. Local home power, disconnected from the grid should not be a problem though.
    – It should be relatively easy to retrofit existing power plants with LENR generators (I have no proof of this, just assuming)
    – The result of the retrofit is clean power so we could quickly and substantially lower CO2 output, especially if LENR generators can be retrofitted in big ships (very big environmental pollution creators)
    – It’s unlikely for electricity prices to raise because of the stability of the fuel price (1% of the current yearly nickel production is already enough to satisfy the current world energy requirement).
    – LENR reactors should allow for easy expansion of centralized power plants and power production. Since it is a safe technology without pollution, it will be much easier to get permits for new plants.
    – As new plants are build or old plants are upgraded and expanded, this should mean nearly unlimited power which in a market environment should mean prices will drop
    – Nearly unlimited power against reduced prices will mean a boost in economic activity
    – Newer LENR devices for heat and electricity will be developed until they are ready and certified for home use, so at one point they will flood the market, lowering the price of electricity again, causing more economic activity, and so on…
    – Centralized power distribution should still be useful for projects that have really big power requirements, unless advances in (portable) LENR generators can meet even those requirements

    So short term centralized power distribution based on LENR is useful, but is limited in lifetime as de-centralized power distribution should take over eventually.

    Of course this is all crystal ball speculation…

    • Mike Cheek

      It would seem the “hot cat” could be quickly integrated with an existing power plant. Nothing against distributed power, mind you, but at a power plant you already have a complete water treatment (demineralizers,reverse osmosis) and power generation equipment (i.e. steam turbines with downstream condensers) to squeeze the very most out of every pound of steam generated. A power plant, due to its economy of scale,can most efficiently convert the energy from steam generated by a hot cat into electricity. But let’s have both, centralized and distributed. If, if, if the hot cat works.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Fully agree with your points.

      • Einar

        Yes, should be easy enough to use a hot cat in the preheater lines and in the MSR (moisture separator and reheater) instead of bleeding fresh steam, thus increasing the effective steam flow to the turbines –> more MWe’s. Limiting factors can be the generator cooling and generator busbar capacity, though.

        Using hotcats instead of preheaters and MSR’s could also maybe reduce the complexity of the process: less pipes, valves and tanks would probably be needed.

      • rith, centralized power plant can be 2-4 times more effective.
        however the grid is halp of the the todays price, and LENR make electricity 10 times less expensive…
        hard to compete.

        the only solution would be for the grid to downsize quickly, but it is to easy to try to maintain the monopoly.

        naturally users will by a CHP generator to save their bill.
        then the operator will refuse to buy electricity, and will increase electricity price.
        more people will buy CHP. operatoir will increase fixed price.
        people will simply disconnect.
        operatoir will ask to forbide that.
        next election will reject that idea.

        already discussed here
        http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=732#p2659

    • Omega Z

      Zeddicus

      Once they are Available, I suspect for several years, all E-cat production will just be added to the present Energy production. Demand increase by 2 to 3 percent a year. Production will have to meat that demand first. It all takes time.

      At some point when additional demand is met, I suspect small decentralized systems will be built. Efficiency/costs will dictate this. Less infrastructure & eliminating Energy loss over 100’s of miles of Power Lines.

      I live in 1 of about 5 (US)States that actually allow you to sell Electricity to the Grid. Not a simple matter. You don’t just back feed threw the meter. Well, technically you could, but you’ll end up in a place that provides all your means for you. An all expense paid vacation by the tax payers.

      You have to setup a completely different meter system & Control panel. The Utility Has Control over it. Only they determine if/when you can feed the Grid. Usually only under Peek Demand periods. Their Base Generators take priority. Even when they buy your Electricity from you, They pay only fair market Wholesale price. My rates are about 12 cents per Kwh. 6 cents for energy, 3 cents tax, 3 cents for transmit fees & profits, a portion of which is also tax. So the best I would get would be 6 cents per Kwh.

      Considering the costs to do this & the fact that they only have to purchase at peek times, Probably not worth the hassle. Toss in the Fact that they will have E-cats for line stability purposes, your payment may only be 1 cent per Kwh feed back. That would be the new wholesale base.

      Unless your totally off grid, Which is a long way off, The most likely long term scenario is a dispersed grid with 30% to 50% lower Utilities.

      You mentioned feed back & overload of the Grid. That’s why they have to have control of your system. If you make it, you have to use it. Otherwise it will overload & start blowing things out including peoples appliances.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Excellent points, Omega. The fact that the current power grid must be adapted for future decentralized.power distribution, gives the established power companies lots of control over how to setup the new grid to their benefit. As they will eventually be reduced to carriers and guardians of the infrastructure, they will strive to keep the power grid very important. As you say, low price for home produced electricity and strong preference for the base centralized power plants. I expect lots of political muscle will be used to keep them in power for as long as possible.
        They may have a point for having to provide for power demands that the local grid cannot deliver. A datacenter takes huge amounts of energy, so how would the local grid provide for their power requirements?

        • current grid operators cannot adapt to energy 10 times less expensive.
          50% of their todays cost are the grid managent.
          It is worthe today because energy is expensive.
          When grid will cost 5 times the energy, people will ask for autonomy.
          incumbent will try to force people to pay the grid, but people will disconnect…

          • HeS

            In some countries in Europe the cost of the grid is separate from the cost of energy. Different suppliers have different electricity prices for consumers.

  • Wau dau

    This is not effective to integrate Hot-Cats with existing powerplants, because they will uncommpettitive within 3-4 years even after such retrofit.
    Fees for transmission system (grid) are higher then future cost of energy at new generations of home systems (generators). So historic example with iceman and fridge is right and I was first who used this example at my country biggest broker public forum some 3-4 years back.

    Existing powerplants will baannnkrupt within 6-8 years of timefframe, because of saturation (with new systems) around 60-75 % at customer base.
    Spreading between industries will faster then spreading in block condos with existing centralized heating. These condos in poor areas will be last who will adapted/saturated.

    Rooozzzi concept with priorrritizing energy wholesaler is feasible only if such wholesaler will build decentralized units directly at industrial customers bases, otherwise no.

    I am beelliver in LENR, it is not necesssary to attaaack me.

    My origginal name was Gguuru, You know this.
    All my names are here bbbbaannnedd, so I must chaaanges this.

    • George Sutton

      Wau dam excellent point and congratulations on the iceman refrigerator analogy. Definitely has made a huge impact on the entire argument.

    • jacob

      you are not making any sense , Gguuru whoever you are ,if you believe in cold fusion LENR,perhaps you could consider to be positive and not trying to get banned again.
      really don’t know what you are trying to accomplish.

      • Wau dau

        I am trying to write that positives are huge, fine and clear.

        Also I am trying to write that biased thinking, planning etc. is very dangerous, naive and childish. With such secretive prioritizing, information heavy assymetry style of conduct business in paradigm shift sector You may easy bankrupt whole nations for example – and there was not such discussion. Only childish orgasmic blabbing, no critical thinking.

        I am real believer in LENR and HephaHeat from first minutes, no subversion agent.

  • ivan_cev

    To admin: why are you suppressing my comments?

    • Methusela

      Perhaps you have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said?

    • captain

      Because, finally, our permissive Admin, for the sake of this blog, has realized that it’s better to keep it within the rails of the line of his website.

  • andreiko

    The history of the fire; fire of the Sun, the lightning, the Flint or the friction stick, the campfire, the oven fire, stove fire, fire of the rifle, fire for the cannon, fire for the steam engine, fire for vehicles, fire of nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, fire of rearrange knew nanostructures > LENR etc … … strange but true!!Fire the smallest conceivable unity of move.

    • Dickyaesta

      @Andreiko lees alsjeblieft mijn post een stukje verder op in deze pagina.
      @Andreiko Please read my post it bit further on this page I dont how to point directly to it, it might help 🙂 all of us to decipher your enigmatic english posts
      Dickyaesta

  • GreenWin

    Good authority informs that the several micro-CHP projects in Japan and Germany are forging ahead. The need for distributed, efficient heat and power is in great demand in both countries as they are both scrapping their nuclear fission programs. And there are very big energy players in the game.

    http://www.igu.org/Japan%202%20full%20text.pdf

    To start Tokyo and Osaka Gas companies are both working with Panasonic and Honda to develop fuel cell (SOFC & PEMFC) – based micro-CHP units. Honda also makes an ICE microgen burning NG. What this indicates is government recognition of need to offload some residential base load to residential CHP. The politics favor distributed CHP in both Japan and Germany and even !! in the UK.

    http://www.fareastgizmos.com/other_stuff/panasonic_opens_its_first_european_residential_fuel_cell_rd_center_in_germany.php

    While e-cat replaces the need for a natgas fuel source – the benefit to communities is already indisputable. The immediate solution is a hot cat + Stirling engine or micro-steam turbine. Later, direct conversion of the LENR beta-decay can provide solid state electricity; obviating need for moving parts.

    Naysayers, doubters, denialists, pathos all can be sure there ARE ready solutions for e-catCHP and there are now some major players looking to make money. These people will not stop, not rest, not turn back or be threatened by old school crime tactics. There’s too much money on the table.

  • Ellen Smith

    Nice blog. Found this while searching through google