Aldo Proia on Early E-Cat Sales

Prometeon SRL CEO Aldo Proia, E-Cat licensee for Italy, has conducted a new interview with Italian journalist Alessandro Securo in which he answers questions about the current status of selling the E-Cat.

Much of what Proia says is not new, but I get the impression from his answers that there are delicate discussions taking place regarding who will be early customers. He talks about the “early stage” of E-Cat sales and marketing taking at least 6 months, before mass marketing begins.

He also indicates that new technological developments with the technology are taking place which will allow for features to be added that today seem “almost impossible”.

It has always seemed to me that introducing the E-Cat into the marketplace will be a difficult process not so much from a technological standpoint, but from a business one. If you were a company looking for a competitive advantage, it may not be in your interest to signal to your competitors that you had a way to drastically reduce your energy overhead costs. It’s likely that early adopters might want some kind of assurance from Prometeon and Leonardo that they have priority when it comes to new products and upgrades.

As far as the public getting to see these new plants in action, Proia emphasizes that the decision to reveal them rests with the customers.

I don’t have permission to publish the interview here. Here’s a link to a Google translation.

  • Rene Vega

    The translation link should have been:

    This interview is old news. The salient pieces are that they are selling the commercial 1MW units made from low-temp ecats, and that they will upgrade the modules as they go through refueling maintenance. Both are good news for commercial users.

    Notably absent and sailing towards later and later deployment are the home ecat units. I think this technology is headed toward the typical energy deployment cycle of benefitting commercial and utility interests first, which often delays individual procurements by a lot. My concern is that deals may be made to defer individual access out of any reasonable deployment horizon.

    • Invy

      Once Rossi has a patent he has said he will release info on his catalyst…. At that point the home hobbiest may be able to build their own, just not sell it…

      • clovis

        I would just add this from the horse’s mouth,- I can already say that the first 1 MW hot cat will go in operation within February 2013.
        I rest my case., –SMILE

        • Robert

          Tell us how you know such info.

  • captain

    If I don’t go wrong, I remember that Rossi said, time ago, that the early adopters of his 1MW thermal plant would be benefited in the future with particular regard, such as new technical improvements, reduced prices, priority for additional supplies, a.s.o., so to recover ASAP their initial ‘costly’ investment by reducing their breakeven time.
    IMO these are anyway good reasons to start ASAP buying the warm 1MW thermal plants. And I would add, IMO, mainly in Italy where the energy cost is the highest in EU.
    It could be a real good deal to have 1MW thermal plants (in containers)installed in large public hospitals, in statal universities, in large military stations, a.s.o.: in a very short time energy bills for heating could dramatically go down…

    Ah… the lobbies 🙁

    • Renzo

      Proia says they’re selective in choosing the early customers, Rossi also said it at Pordenone. They probably want customers who give guarantees of respecting intellectual property and can’t become rivals

      • HeS

        @:”who give guarantees of respecting intellectual property and can’t become rivals ”

        Finding the right customer will be very difficult. The temptation is great. Someone can steal and sell Chinese, …

        • GreenWin

          Which is why there is a legal system, litigation and law enforcement. Thieves go to jail. Both North America and EU have a variety of trade secret laws protecting even unpatented products.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks —-
    Nigel Dyer
    Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:34:12 -0800
    And I think I may be able to claim responsibility for the inclusion of the paragraph about neutron release in thunderstorms, given my discussions over the last couple of years with John Swain.
    On 06/11/2012 02:41, pagnu… wrote:
    Just published on —
    “Theories of Low Energy Nuclear Transmutations”
    – Y.N. Srivastava, A. Widom, J. Swain
    ABSTRACT: Employing concrete examples from nuclear physics it is shown
    that low energy nuclear reactions can and have been induced by all of the
    four fundamental interactions (i) (stellar) gravitational, (ii) strong,
    (iii) electromagnetic and (iv) weak. Differences are highlighted through
    the great diversity in the rates and similarity through the nature of the
    nuclear reactions initiated by each.

  • Bob

    I may not be understanding correctly, but I am a little worried about the statements concerning “upgrading the regular Ecat to a Hot Cat”. It seems in the interview, Proia states a couple of times that “early buyers” of the low temp Ecat will recieve priority when the Hot Cat “cartridges” become available. That simply changing out cartridges would make a low temp Ecat a Hot Cat.

    This seems that the difference in the two versions are almost entirely in the cartridge, which to my understanding is a rather simple device. This would lead one to think that the difference is in the catalyst, since the controls would still be the same, if only changing out the cartridge. This seems too simple for such a magnitude of functionality.

    Again, I certainly do not know all the design work of either model, but what I saw of the “shipping container” Ecat, it certainly did not look like it would be suitable to be changed over to what we saw a Hot Cat cartridge looks like.

    Even at that, the piping, pumps and valving, due to the great temperature and pressure differences would need to be significantly different as well.

    To those more knowledgeable than I in the area of boilers, does it seem likely that a 120 C designed unit could run effectively/safely at 600 C? The container unit did not seem suited for high temp steam production at all. Remember, the low temp Ecat has been on sale for almost 10 months, well before the Hot Cat was announced. So existing units sold (if any) would have been of this design?

    What is the consensus on this? I am usually pretty optimistic about various Ecat news, but this troubles me greatly for some reason.


    • I had understood earlier that the whole reactor is swapped in case of a serious upgrade, maybe even the whole 1 MW block. Proia says cartucce, which seems to mean both an ammunition charge as well as a cartridge, so maybe its meaning is wider than in English… it seems that we would again need Italians to help.

      • captain

        Cartucce ==> cartridges, same as in laser printers, cartucce di toner ==>toner cartridges.

        It must be considered that the 1MW plants, warm and hot, are in continuous evolution ==> improvements.

        The 1MW warm plant needs a container now as now: but Leonardo corp has stated that after 6 months of continuous operation, the old container plant will be replaced simply with a new container plant, almost immediately, and practically without an energy interruption. In this case, no need for customers to replace cartridges.

        About the 1MW hot plant, its actual size is 1 cu.meter approx, thus very small. And the original 100 modules of 10KW each, have become now 72 modules of 14KW each IMO (1,000/72=14 + or -), not 10KW as in the warm type.
        So far, with no one prototype yet ready IMO, it’s too early to discuss on its cartridges replacement.

        Nothing is known so far circa the dormant modules, BTW.

    • Renzo

      sorry Bob, I can’t find in the article any part where Proia says that. I undestrand that the upgrade is only to more advanced version of the low temperature Ecats with better COP (that is less energy input). The Hot-Cat is another matter

      • Bob

        Here are some sentences from the article via Google Translate. As Pekka states, pehaps the translations is not sufficient.

        “However the product is already commercially available in specimens tested and refined in every detail, as are the first and therefore are produced with the highest quality control, absolutely, without penalizing the customer who buys E-Cat Pre series, thanks to Subsequent upgrades that are made subsequently. ”

        and again..

        “As Smith himself has said in the recent conference of Pordenone, there are upgrades when changing cartridges. In practice, the customer buys a car that COP 6 contractually guaranteed. If in the meantime are put on the market E-Cat with a higher COP guaranteed, the first exchange cartridges is effected also an upgrade of the system, given that the cartridges contain also the reactor, that is the heart of the apparatus. And since the exchange cartridges is provided for every 6 months, the first buyers are actually benefit from purchasing for first, as if satisfied may make orders over before it saturates the production capacity. It is not difficult to predict, once installed the first ski, ride a purchase. ”

        In both of these cases, it seems that any existing 1MW low temp Ecats can be upgraded to HotCats via cartridge replacement.

        Again, the piping, valves, pumps etc. etc. would all need to be changed unless originally designed for High Temp operation. Yet these have been for sale the past 10 months.

        • Renzo

          no, Bob. I think you’re reading too much into those statements. I agree upgrading to hot-cats would take a complete redesign and also much less space than a container. But the kind of upgrades Proia is referring to, were alread described months ago and refer only to improvements of the low-temp Ecat. It seems the hot-cat has complete different core design

          • Bob

            Thank you for your thoughts. I most likely am not following the dialog correctly. It seemed that the discussion was why would someone purchase a low temp unit now when the hot units might be available next year. The answer “that they could be upgraded” was what I thought the response was. As you state, this must not be correct as it seems unlikely this upgrade is feasible.

            In any case, the scenario should unfold in the upcoming months. Hopefully we will hear of confirmed sales to companies willing to acknowledge the purchase and publish their findings.

            Hopefully the University Report will be announced relatively soon as well. Both of these topics seem to have some definitive time frames that would cast a dark cloud if not observed. As with many, I eagerly await the announcement that is “skeptic proof”, “media proof” and “scientific dogma proof”. Then the world can be well on it’s way to a new dawn of clean energy.

          • GreenWin

            Bob, no specific mention of upgrade to hotcat – plus Google Xlate errors – seems to confirm these comments only affect low temp products.

            COP upgrades seems what will be available. Only to a safety certified ecat. Hot cat has no certification at this time.

          • captain

            GW U’re right.
            Rossi said only that the 1MW warm thermal plant, already safety certified, will remain an 1 MW warm (max. 120C) thermal plant. When improvements will be made available for that warm plant, the early customer should be benefited with those improvements, however.
            But Rossi has also said that hot modules (reactors) are DIFFERENT from warm modules.
            Thus in no way it’s Rossi’s intention to deeply modify the ‘classical’ 1MW warm thermal plant.

            BTW for Google translator, ROSSI is translated as SMITH 😉

  • Barry

    I wish Rossi well. A lot has happened since last November. I would love a home unit, but more than that what we need is a real breakthrough of undeniable, repeatable CF science. Once that happens there will be no stopping LENR from unfolding in a thousand different ways. That’s when I’ll get out the cork screw to the good stuff.

    • Andre Blum

      You have a very good way of expressing myself.

    • LilyLover

      Go ahead and have it.
      I’ve been scavenging the internet and have acquired enough resources to replicate Heat to Electricity (COP 10+) based on available information on LENR. Celani’s or Rossi’s secrets are just a matter of time. Useful, but not indispensable. If Rossi is failed (by the oligarchy), I’ll make sure to replace him. When it comes to science & technology of CF. I assure you of the present day viability and impending implementation of the Tesla’s dream. It’s about to happen. If they kill me, my competent students & a smart-friend will take over the job. Rossi’s pace is really good. Artisan breads cannot match Sara-Lee prices. Even if Sara-Lee is shut down; bread won’t cease to exist. I like Rossi’s business model. Amazoning or Walmartizing the E-Cats. I cannot compete with his progress; but I can make the bread.
      After discovering what I have discovered; my what-if-Rossi-vanishes-fears have vanished. So are the what-if-I-vanish-fears. & I believe Rossi when he says; putting him “away” is impossible. ‘Cause putting my ideas away are impossible too.
      Go ahead and have it.
      & May be as a token of appreciation for Rossi, draw a painting… A cat playfully toppling the pyramid with the bleeding scraches at the top … It’ll be a modern day classic. I was gonna do it… but my hands are full… So, I’ll leave it to the professional artist. I know painting is not your area but you can dabble.
      Happy E-Catting around.

      • ivan_ceav

        Why you do not make public what you have discovered?

        • LilyLover

          It’s already public. I’ve just been gathering together. For starters, if you can take time… read BLP’s website and their “Atomic theory”. If you cannot understand the following, there is little use for public debate:

          Sample 1:
          Mystery Resolved

          According to quantum mechanics, the electron is a point, but simultaneously everywhere at once, and it goes through both slits simultaneously, “guided” by a probability wave with a phase that depends on the position-momentum Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle:

          where the phase contains the term Delta-p that is interpreted as the contribution to the uncertainty in the momentum of the incident particle on scattering. In the classical picture, the phase also contains the term Delta-p that is the physical momentum change of the incident particle on scattering. In both cases, the change in position, Delta-x, corresponds to the transverse displacement of the particle due to diffraction.

          The electron only goes through one slit but is imprinted with the wave character of photons that are created across both slits due to electron-slit interaction. An electromagnetic wave exists. Quantum mechanics reproduces the mathematics that corresponds to this physical electromagnetic wave by invoking a nonsensical waving probability. Thus, it is stuck with the unfortunate result that the “wave-particle duality is unlike anything in our common everyday experience.”

          Sample 2:
          Understanding the shift of electron density functions through polarization of excited He+ as evidenced by Dr. Mills’ experiments showing changes in CQM Ionization Potential is a key to understanding Photonic conversion.

          I can show all of it gathered … not my time … not my place… that “LENR Chan” is doing it well … If he vanishes, I’ll come into play.

          The point is, if you can understand any of this, you know where to find what… but then again there are printed instructions on “how to use a pillow” or “how to boil water”.

          Just trust us; or begin reading & experimenting and be one of us.

          Dr. Mills free publications are free. The garbage sells for hundreds of $s in Higher Physics.

          To educate yourself: That’s a good starting point.

          Remember: Hypnotism only works with consent.
          Openness is the ultimate killer of secrecy and associated evils.
          Knowledge is prerequisite to exercising freewill.

          “The Field” now has more of a profitable scaling problem in the light of CiaMi6 Oily-garchy restrictions rather than a technical one. If owning E-Cat is criminalized; then China is the only hope. But if people will allow that, then they are not worthy of the life or free-will.

          Said too much. I only care about sentient people who love their freewill. For the rest back-boneless they may as well be treated the way the GAuidestones say they should.

          • lcd

            So how does it work for neutrons?

            Sorry this explanation is typical of a young QM student struggling with wave particle duality

      • Barry

        Always glad to hear of another back up plan. When all is scientifically acknowledged Lilylover I’ll send you a bottle and we’ll pick a time to have a toast.
        ps Tried to be an oil painter then the economy hit.

  • Fredda Drago

    Usually on election day I am following polling numbers. Today I am on E-Cat world hoping for a Merry Christmas. BTW all I want for Christmas is 3rd party validation.

    • Ged

      Agreed! Also, remember all us Americans to do our civic duty and vote today.

  • georgehants

    I did try again —-
    Andrea Rossi
    November 6th, 2012 at 11:45 AM
    November 6th, 2012 at 5:07 AM
    Mr. Rossi, many people where hoping for third party reports on your E-Cat in October.
    Why do you think the guys have not reported yet.
    Best Wishes.
    Dear Georgehants:
    As I said , I think that by November the report could be issued (Actually, I said by October/November…).
    Warm Regards,

    • e-dog

      Good try George!

      • daniel maris

        Well October, Nov, Dec…makes no real difference. But if he starts pushing into 2013, 2014 – well of course disbelief will grow.

        • Fibber McGourlick

          It’s good reply. He’s saying it’s still on track, as predicted previously.

        • Ged

          Sadly, university publications take time… often a lot more time than even the authors expect.

          • HeS

            I think, there will be no confirmation from the university. University of Bologna demanded 500,000 Euro and 6 months for research.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Did Rossi say the U. of B. is doing the tests? I don’t remember that. I thought it was just an unnamed independent tester.

          • Renzo

            it is true the actual publication may take more than a year but usually in our time the first draft and pre-publication pdf are available as soon as they’re ready. Unlike Rossi, they should have no reason to keep it secret…

          • GreenWin

            Well, most universities operate under orders to dismiss LENR as “pseudoscience.” If the Chancellor gets a call from a large benefactor (government, NGO or industry) suggesting a probable loss of funds… The university will never publish the results.

            Just look how Report 41 in Italy went down.

        • captain

          Rossi produces machinery, not hot air. Thus … no need for timekeepers 🙂

    • jfab

      Someone should try to contact UoB just to ear their side of the story. They should be able to confirm if they’ve done any testing, or at least received the e-cat.

      • lcd

        Well according to pop sci they deny it

    • Jim

      – scientist
      – inventor
      – engineer
      – manufacturer
      – distributor
      – entrepreneur
      – promoter
      – visionary

      Maybe they’re not always perfectly in sync

  • GreenWin

    It would be interesting for Leonardo to establish a dialog with Capstone Turbine Inc. in California. They manufacture turbines specific to distributed energy and CHP production. Some of their products helped keep East Coast people empowered during Hurricane Sandy. Their product line starts at 30kW and continues to 10MW.

    There has been a curious *deletion* of commentary re: LENR and Capstone at investorshub yesterday. It is hard to believe that enterprising young entrepreneurs are not making copious inquiries to e-cat licensees. Capstone tailors their turbines to combustible fuel sources – doing so for a non-combustible (NewFire) source seems natural.

    • captain

      Interesting, just good for the small sizes, below 1MW thermal.
      It misses only, as already said, the tailoring for Rossi’s 600C dry steam.

    • Robert Mockan

      Enterprising young entrepreneurs have so many opportunities today to develop business ideas they have much to keep themselves occupied as it is. But soon some of them will focus on LENR technology. Here is an interesting article on the resources available to help make their dreams come true.

  • Fred

    Quote: Once Rossi has a patent he has said he will release info on his catalyst.. end quote.

    You missunderstand how patents work. He can’t get a patent until he releases details of his catalyst. Patent rules say they must contain enough information to replicate the invention. So if he claims a catalyst is required but fails to provide details his patent will be refused. I’m sure Rossi must know this.

    • Omega Z


      In the U.S. anyway, You can disclose certain Proprietary information to the Patent Office under a NDA. It can apply up until the patent is granted & for some period after.(Don’t recall how long). There have been suspected leaks in the past where this info is shared with competitors.

      Rossi is aware of this & new his patent wouldn’t be granted regardless. In the midterm his filing provides some limited protection. I suspect when he has all the T’s crossed & I’s dotted with several E-cat products working in private hands, he will fill in the blanks under this NDA. The major push to get the patent will then begin.

      With undeniable working products the Odds of getting the patent approved increases dramatically, Regardless of Science Dogma. At this point he even has the Option to Sue the patent office in court & can be taken all the way to the Supreme Court to obtain the patent. He also has Full(100%) protection of his product IP during this period.

      Being a controversial development & CF History, I suspect this was his plan from the beginning. Per his continuous Statements. Only Working Products will validate it.