Sharing the Philosophy [Updated]

At least twice now, when asked by readers of the JONP whether, after creating a partnership with a US entity, Andrea Rossi still has control of his technology he has answered that his partner “shares his philosophy.” He has not yet affirmed that he is still fully in control of it — which leads me to suspect that he no longer is.

We know barely anything about what has happened; we don’t know who the partner is, so all guesses are very speculative. When asked about the reasons he entered into this agreement Rossi stated, “We made tests with the consultants and the engineers of the Partner after the signature of a contract with strong guarantees for both parties. I trusted them, they trusted me: their intentions were honest and my instinct told me they were not here to spy, but for real will of working with our technology. This fact cracked the nut.”

Trust and instinct — these are what many decisions in life are based upon, business and otherwise. Along with this, Rossi has also spoken about signing a “mammoth contract, giving the certainty of a solid future to our development.” Rossi will certainly not have entered into any agreement without very carefully evaluating the effect that it would had on the long-term prospects for implementation of his technology.

If the partner of Rossi shares his philosophy — what is that philosophy? In the past, Rossi has spoken about bringing about a revolution to benefit the world, and many observers have held out a lot of hope for that. It will be interesting to learn more about this partnership as times go on.

UPDATE:

I wrote to AR on the JONP asking him to summarize his philosophy. His reply:

The philosophy of our USA Partner and of us is based on the following 4 pillars:
1- this technology has to be consolidated and put at the service of Mankind
2- industrialization of the manufacturing must reach low prices to lower the cost of energy in the World
3- give back the money we earn as much as possible to cure cancer in children in the World
4- produce good jobs

  • Pweet

    I believe the “trust and instinct” he speaks of are more to do with them offering a lot of money if he could prove the technology worked, and the proof that it worked was going to be by way of the November third party report.
    By the tone of his postings on JONP at that time he was obviously over the moon with the deal so whatever it was, he was more than happy to sign off on it if he could swing it through to completion. My guess is it involved a lot of money plus ongoing royalties.
    I think the failure of the November third party testing was a major fly in the ointment so to speak, and there was the very real possibility that the deal would not be completed.
    I believe it has been resurrected on the basis that the new partner has complete access to all the technology for the purpose of testing by them or their designated test agents.
    If, and it’s a very big “IF”, these tests indicate the claims have been realistic then the deal will continue as planned.
    If not, then I have no doubt they will bail, unless they want to continue with the charade in the same manner Defkalion has. ( I don’t believe they have anything like what they claim either.)
    At this point, my strong feeling is that it will fail the tests.

    The strange thing is, I also think A.R. knows it doesn’t work but continually hopes that by some form of miracle or divine intervention it will at some point scrape through with a pass mark in a testing procedure.
    If he had any confidence that the thing worked he would be relieving Dick Smith of his million dollars. I think the offer runs out at end of February or thereabouts.

    • clovis

      Brilliant,yea,I will run right out and spend a million and a half for something,and not see it run and produce , what kind of scene does that make,

    • Omega Z

      Pweet

      In today’s world, A million dollars isn’t squat. Especially in the U.S.

  • daniel maris

    Hmmm…well let’s hope 2013 isn’t full of “I would love to take this to market but by associates say no.” or “I am becoming increasingly disillusioned with my associates. I thought they shared my philosophy, but now I begin to doubt it. I fear I must take back control of the project – but this will mean much delay.”

    Come on, Rossi, if you really have something, cut to the chase and show us it in operation and let’s hear from lots and lots of people confirming it is working as described.

    • clovis

      COME ON TROLL, are so thick, that you can’t understand, he can give a shi_ that you get to see anything or even hear anything, it’s not to his advantage to come out right now,there is a hell of a lot more to worry about than what you think, if you weren’t so lazy you would read about what is real and comment on that, instead of so much bullshi_.

      • GreenWin

        There is a palpable immaturity in those demanding “Show me NOW!” But who somehow miss out on the hot fusion boondoggle that has wasted 60 years and $274B taxpayer dollars.

        Come on hot fusionists – where is our “unlimited energy?”

        • daniel maris

          Green Win where did I say I find the claims of hot fusionists credible. We’ve been hearing from them for 50 years that it’s just around the corner, so not I don’t spare them.

          But in contrast to the hot fusionists, Rossi claims already to have a marketable product which he says he sold over a year ago. Except, we can’t view this plant in operation and we have no testimonials from any of the purchasers involved in the purchase of 13 units.

          There’s no point in criticising me for his woeful failures to be transparent (without any need to surrender up IP).

      • daniel maris

        I don’t think someone who has followed the Rossi narrative for two years and argued against his aggressive critics on many occasions can be described as a “troll”. Rossi has had plenty of opportunities to convince us. He could have a 24/7 webcam now showing operation of a 1 MW heater heating his own premises. Why not?

        I’ve no idea whether Rossi has something genuine, but I know he has not done all he could if he wished to end pointless speculation.

        • Jim

          Rossi is obviously a busy guy, who probably enjoys having “fans”, like many people might.

          But you can’t spend your life signing autographs and posing for pictures with little Billy to send home to Uncle Bob.

          We’re lucky we got what we got.

          • daniel maris

            What? How long does it take to set up a webcam and depute a couple of workers in your facility to speak to camera once or twice a day? You are stretching credulity.

          • clovis

            Daniel, one of your problems is you don’t listen, once again, he don’t want you to see or for that matter know anything about his device right now, if he did he would do as you say. when they are ready they will start advertising,their product later,

          • daniel maris

            Clovis,

            If he doesn’t want us to know anything about the product why did he demonstrate it, why did he put a video of it up, why did he tell us about the sale…He’s done all that – so it is a small step to show us it operating in situ either at the purchasers’ facilities (he claims 13 sales have been made) or at his own facility.

          • clovis

            Daniel,
            You contradict, your self, if you have already seen a video, if not look it up, only the customer can see it in operation, it all top secret, buddy, now ask your self if you was going to pay a million and a half, for something wouldn’t you want to see it run as proclaimed, and if you had bought it and had one of the worlds first of a kind would you really want to show it to people , before it even had all the bugs worked out, i would not,so you my friend will just have to wait with the rest of us.trash talking this brilliant man will gain you nothing, be happy don’t worry,— smile.

  • Paolo

    My point of view is that AR is just searching for a way out. Tryng to escape from his own lies. So..what? He sold the property of eCat to a secret company. It is no longer his responsabilty….very smart.

    • timycelyn

      Troll alert.

      Isn’t it interesting to note that the various trolls that creep out of the woodwork from time to time, always take care not to acknowledge the various independent validations of the underlying effect that now exist. Validations both by independent researchers reporting anomalous heat in non-Rossi rigs, but as far as one can determine exploiting somewhat similar effects, and formal validation of some of this independent work (Japanese work, MFMP.)

      They try to paint Rossi as a singular kook/con artist, by semi-skilful use of the half truth (half? OK, I’m being generous), whereas in fact he is surrounded by others seeing similar effects, albeit apparently at a much more modest scale. For any newbies her, taking the trolling half-seriously, this link is very informative: http://www.slideshare.net/tylervan/lenr

      As soon as one realizes this, it is much more reasonable to accept that the likeliest explanation – as per Occam’s Razor (poor thing must be getting blunt by now :-))- is that Rossi and his activities are all founded in fact.

      However, I will admit he needs help with his communications as in the past:

      1. He tends to have an urge he cannot suppress to shout the good news from the rooftops too soon. The golden rule in such matters is “Keep the Good News coming slowly” – he has pretty much done the opposite.

      2. What he ‘promises’ at various points is further very much scrambled by his emotional, Italian, use of English, creating much confusion and allowing those disposed that way to retrospectively start whining about lies.

      3. When the game moves on, he just kinda ignores the previous thing he was all excited about, finding it hard, it seems, to come straight out and say ‘Hey, that domestic E-cat I was getting all excited about is pretty much postponed indefinitely because of regulatory/insurance/ (etc etc) pressure. Sorry Guys’. It has to be dragged out of him, and this gives the simple thinkers a lot of doubts, and the trolls a lot of food.

      But to finish where I started, I cannot see in the whole history of what Rossi has revealed to us so far, SET IN CONTEXT, anything that allows one to easily dismiss it as lies, as the somewhat superficial troll above is attempting to.

      What a donkey….

      • Paolo

        I’m telling my opinion, that’s no trolling. And about the lies:

        1) He said he would pay 1’000’000 € to the University of Bologna for research on eCat. The payment never took place.

        2) He said he had sold the 1 MV plant. The plant, after 14 months, is still sitting in a cold facility in Bolgona.

        3) He said that in the reactor a nuclear reaction take place. And he signed a declaration to the “State of Florida Bureau of Radiation Control” sayng that his invention causes no nuclear reaction.

        Is tactic is always delay any evidence of real energy surplus.

        • timycelyn

          You’re very free and easy with the word ‘lies’ aren’t you?

          Dealing with your points above:

          1. See my points 2+3
          2. And your point is…?
          3. So you have a copy of his declaration. Do, please, post it…

          • Paolo

            1 ) saying something no true is a lie.
            2 ) I’m sure you would be easy with a payement of 1’000’000 for a house and after more than a year you can enter in it.

            3) It seem the antispam filter dont allow link the pdf. But is easy to find. Google “State of Florida Bureau of Radiation Control” Andre Rossi. You’ll find a PDF (page 31)

          • timycelyn

            I’m getting bored with this, so this will be my last response as I have better things to do than argue with trolls.

            1. See my points 2+3. He is poor at updating us when things don’t go the way he planned. That is not lying, although it is annoying.

            2. If you’d bothered to look into what went on with this properly, you’d have found that that mark 1 was so embarrassingly out of date that the customer (US Navy was the popular deduction) was provided with one running on more up to date technology instead.

            3.How convenient. I did Google and all I find is a lot of references going back to Kermit and his rag, who with all due respect DOES seem to warrant the use of the l-word that you toss around so freely.

          • Paolo

            Maybe you have to read the ecatworld post of march 11, 2012….

          • daniel maris

            Timycelyn,

            1. That’s pathetic. He has never explained the apparent contradiction between claiming nuclear reactions but telling the FRB there are no nuclear reactions. The contradiction may be explained away (in terms of the legal definition of nuclear reaction in the USA) but I don’t think Rossi has ever explained it.

            2. Why haven’t we seen this original 1 MW operating anywhere? What happened to the other 12 sales he was claiming?

          • timycelyn

            This is getting bloody boring. OK:

            1. Someone, please, post the original Florida board text, not some drivel that directly or indirectly comes from Kermit who has shown himself on occasions to be an out and out liar. I’m tired of hearsay on this point, but will happily discuss the original text. I actually agree that the truth is possibly in the supposition you make at the end of your point 1.

            2.Err, I’m not so sure of that actually. Regarding the 13, as I remember he spoke many times of orders, but I don’t think he had come out and said anywhere that he has made those sales and deliveries. I rather think the whole thing got overtaken by the hot cat. I mean, who wants a Model T ford when they can have a Mondeo? (Me, actually, a good condition Model T would be worth having, 😉 but you get the idea…)

            Regarding the first one – see the comments in other posts on the blog.

          • Peter_Roe

            Daniel, you seem to have answered one of your questions yourself: “The contradiction may be explained away (in terms of the legal definition of nuclear reaction in the USA)”. If I wanted to divert the attentions of an official who had been sicced onto me by an enemy, I might use a similar strategy.

            As for the 1MW unit, the indications seem to be that it was sold to the US military. I’m afraid I don’t understand why you would think that the US military is obliged to show you or anyone else their kit in operation (almost certainly in a research facility).

            And why keep demanding ‘proof’ and information such as the names of other buyers who may or may not exist, when you know that no-one here has the answers? Its seems rather pointless.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi Stated-”Nothing changes for all our existing engagements.”

          This indicates nothing has changed with the Licenses arrangements.
          The Partner will Manufacture, wholesale & retail the product. A New Manufacturing Arm to Leonardo Corp. Leonardo has become much bigger by way of a Joint Venture.

          Note that Rossi already took on Partners in Leonardo quite sometime ago & is still the CEO. With the new Partner, the Status Quo remains. It just means he has more Entities to confer with when making decisions. They would also have to confer with him. It’s no longer a 1 Man Show. Rossi now has to share the Power & Decision making. That’s what Partnerships are about.

          I Would Note that some of the Skeptics have Complained for a long time, That if Rossi had something real, He should partner up with a Big Company/Corporation to get the Show on the Road.

          Well, It appears that is what he has done. Now their Complaint is he has sold Everybody Out. Go Figure…

          Myself, Have realized long ago that some joint venture would have to come about. Rossi’s expertize is in the E-cat Core. Boilers & Electrical production is outside his realm. Thus the development is way beyond the Capabilities of any one person. A Joint Venture was Inevitable. Also a Necessity to overcome the Energy PTB Status Quo.

          I Would also note that, Prometeon SRL doesn’t seem to be concerned about the situation.

          • Hadamhiram

            Why do you Randomly Capitalize words? It makes you seem like a crazy person… I want to take your ideas seriously, but it is hard to trust you with this weirdness.

          • Omega Z

            Could be a Subconscious passive Aggressive thing. It irritates People.

          • georgehants

            Hadamhiram, I also capitalise words that I wish to emphasise.
            Would you explain why that would make me “like a crazy person”.
            Thank you.

          • Pedro

            Maybe because omega-z is german?

          • Pedro

            Maybe because omega-z is german?

          • daniel maris

            Shouldn’t that be German – LOL

          • captain

            It looks to me that Leonardo’s initial partners are ‘financial’ partners only, while the second partner is a strong international co., with technical knowledge to carry on the development of E-cat plants, to buy/deliver/install them in a large amount of units in different places in the world.
            The second partner should also be concerned in energy production systems, mainly: should it be Siemens, then it perfectly fits Leonardo’s goals. If Siemens, it’s easily explained with the technical instrumentation supplied to Rossi’s power plants, after NI.
            But still, now as now, IMO Siemens name is not 100% sure, because Rossi is under NDAs.
            The same for the US-EU universities involved.

            Shortly, Rossi is sincerely telling the truth, using his personal lingo, that should be duly understood.
            That’s why when he says ‘in a few weeks’, to me that means not 2-3 wks, but also 8-9 weeks!
            And don’t forget that the time of granting certifications/validations/patents/brevets and the like DO NOT DEPEND ON HIM, or mainly from him.
            When sometimes i say that i would be happy to hear big news from Rossi, i consider the time in quarters, seasons 🙂 thus say roughly 4 big news in a year. And that’s enough to me.

        • robiD

          >1) He said he would pay 1’000’000 € to the University of Bologna for research on eCat. The payment never took place.

          It was 500000€ and not 1000000€ and all know that he could not pay because he didn’t receive the payment from Defakalion as a consequence of the their withdrawn from the contract in summer 2011.

          >2) He said he had sold the 1 MV plant. The plant, after 14 months, is still sitting in a cold facility in Bolgona.

          As Fioravanti pointed out, the plant was working but it needed several fix foremost about water leak outside the single e-cat modules and some mechanical adjustments.
          This doesn’t mean that Rossi couldn’t build other plant(s) elsewhere e.g. in his facility in Bondeno (Ferrara) where he is moving his work since the last summer. The facility in Bondeno is Rossi’s family property and the Bologna’s one (via dell’Elettricista) is/was in rent.

          3) He said that in the reactor a nuclear reaction take place. And he signed a declaration to the “State of Florida Bureau of Radiation Control” sayng that his invention causes no nuclear reaction.

          Well, maybe is a matter of words, but the FBoRC didn’t do any effort in believing that a “nuclear reaction” is impossible inside a jar with a little nickel and hydrogen and every scientist would say the same and probably every player in the field will workaround on this issue as long as a scientific explanation will come out. Maybe he even doesn’t know what exactly happen inside his reactor, so don’t worry about that.

          >Is tactic is always delay any evidence of real energy surplus.

          With the goal of …? Please don’t answer: ” … selling licenses”, because there are hundreds of methods to make by far much more money than selling a single _distribution_ license in a country for 100000€ e.g. a way is to sell _production_ licenses for 40000000$ like Defkalion is doing, or selling more licenses for every country, or better doing a financial (Madoff like) hoax: more money less effort and hands always clean.

      • Peter_Roe

        Tim –

        This one seems particularly persistent. As you imply, this kind of ‘half truth’ tactic could only be effective with newbies who are not familiar with the basics of this story.

        I think the people behind these shill attacks know that this kind of innuendo is useless in changing the minds of the regulars here, but they may hope that it might help to slow the growth in the numbers of people who are following developments, by putting off some casual readers.

        We are certainly seeing a lot of trolls recently, many trying to use the ‘Rossi has gone to ground’ line like this one. Confirmation if needed that an end game is now very close.

        • timycelyn

          Lots of little Kanutes…

          😉

          • Peter_Roe

            They’ll get their feet wet quite soon I think!

        • Omega Z

          Peter

          One of his half truths was “he would pay 1’000’000 € to the University” in Fact was 500’000 €.

          We should be aware that Rossi was approached by many entities after the October test & this would have major impact on his intentions.

          In the Search for truth, I question why the University would request payment to begin with.

          And had Rossi followed through, Skeptics would point out that the University may have been bought off For Favorable Findings.

          Last Images from Bologna no longer shows the 1mw setting there. Info available indicates it was rebuilt & became the 2nd 1Mw unit Delivered to the Military Customer.

          In Florida, Rossi stated that the E-cat doesn’t use Nuclear Material or produce Radioactive waste. True.

          And as far as Bologna, I believe Rossi does his work in Ferrara, Italy now. About 50 miles north of Bologna.

          Conclusion: He either only Pays “Half” Attention to Facts or is a Troll.

          • Paolo

            Yes it was 500’000 €, my mistake…still i can’t see the difference.

            About the nuclear reaction on the march 11, 2012
            ecatworld reported this statement : “He acknowledged that no nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device.”

          • The sentence that you quoted is not Rossi’s wording, but it’s the radiation authority’s summary statement after having interviewed Rossi. “Nuclear reaction” might have a more specific meaning in the radiation authority’s terminology than in common language.

          • Paolo

            It is signed by Rossi. I can’t see how “nuclear reaction” maybe not a “nuclear reaction” even in a burocratic language. But…i’m not a great englisg speaker.

          • Ged

            It has a very strict and narrow legal definition. “Nuclear Reaction” to them is anything that gives either a significant amount of radiation (alpha, beta, or gamma) above background and thus requires shielding, or leaves waste material as a byproduct that gives off said radiation.

          • Peter_Roe

            Omega – The latter, almost certainly, trotting out the ‘same old, same old’ because they simply have nothing else to use. This one just joins the ranks of the other four or five who have mysteriously appeared in the last two threads, regurgitating the same time-worn garbage and ignoring all real developments.

            Actually, judging by the standard of English, there may be only a couple of them, shifting identities to avoid (they think) being too obvious. This one certainly doesn’t want to let go of the bone in a hurry (my wife used to have dog like that, until it chased after one car too many).

          • Paolo

            That’no true…i am the same Paolo who translated the “22 passi” tweets on first public demonstration….when i was skeptic but a little bit optimistic….

          • Peter_Roe

            If I have misjudged you I apologise, but regretfully your series of posts (a) have little to do with the present discussion, (b) seem intended to be destructive not constructive (c) consist largely of accusations of lying based on your opinions, and (d) contain a number of partial truths and irrelevancies apparently intended to introduce uncertainty and doubt.

            These are unfortunately the hallmarks of a troll.

          • Paolo

            You can mark me as you want. But i can’t see true in any Rossi’s statement. And with true i mean validated by trustfull entities, solid proof. In Italy we say :”tutto il resto è fuffa!” (you can use google translate)

          • I have already drawn my own conclusions as to what you are, based on the general tenor of your comments.

          • Layman

            In todays Swedish TV morning news there was a teaser about the show tonight, Vetenskapens Värld (World of science), in which part of the program will inform about cold fusion. There was a man from Vattenfall, the giant swedish energy company, saying they are seriously looking in to this and that this perhaps could replace todays nuclear power. The show starts at 8 PM and it will be very interesting to watch.

          • GreenWin

            But we’re told e-cat, rossi, cold fusion, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, Low Energy Nuclear Transmutations are the stuff of crazies, kooks, con men and pathological science. Why would big energy companies be looking in to it? 🙁

          • timycelyn

            GreenWin, did the wording in this get scrambled a little?

            It makes more sense to me as “We’re told by crazies, kooks and con men that this is pathological science….” 😉

          • GreenWin

            Ah, I got my mords wixed. 🙂

          • Peter_Roe

            Another brief glimpse behind the curtains while the scenery is being shifted for the next Act… I wonder if this bloke from Vettenfall is talking about CF in general or Rossi in particular?

          • It’s about Rossi specifically. Translation of the relevant part of http://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/kall-fusion-utreds-som-ersattning-for-karnkraften:

            Replacing nuclear power

            Anders Åberg from the Swedish electricity giant Vattenfall was among the participants of the (Zurich) conference.

            – Yes, since we know that we have to start phasing out nuclear power, it is our duty as an energy company to check for alternatives.

            To the question if this new cold fusion will find its way to Swedish nuclear plants such as Ringhals and Forsmark after some 30 years or so, Anders Åberg answers as follows:

            – Yes, it is not unlikely. What we have here will possibly revolutionise the world’s energy production.

            He adds, though, that the question is so far only under evaluation and that Vattenfall is still waiting for independent tests of the Italian device…

          • Peter_Roe

            Thanks – that’s very interesting. Aren’t we all (waiting).

            BTW, just how many languages do you speak, Pekka!

          • Only a few

          • GreenWin

            As have most sober people.

          • GreenWin

            The trolls are desperate. Digging, scraping, foraging in minutia to try and find contradictions. There ARE contradictions in business all the time. Players change, production paths change, technologies grow…

            A major US partner is a big step toward general commercialization. The trolls are threatened by this and attempt to claim “sell out.”

            These are curious minds in the trolls – they are not skeptics interested only in fact. They practice ad hominem attacks taught in disinformation agencies and in Goebles-like propaganda schools.

            One can only conclude either a paid agenda or an OCD disorder animates these creatures. Or as some here note: simple jealousy. The green monster afraid to allow an others’ success.

      • I dont understand what a troll is.
        What is the definition of what you are referring to?

        • Peter_Roe

          DrBob, I haven’t looked at your posting history so I don’t know where you are ‘coming from’ and can’t tell if you intend your post to be ironic. However, if you genuinely don’t know what internet ‘trolls’ and ‘shills’ are, you may find the following linked page informative:

          http://www.xeroflux.net/SHILLS___TROLLS.php

          • GreenWin

            “If someone is making comments that are a little too ignorant… don’t respond. Don’t indulge these guys. Their job is to waste your time.” xeroflux – Shills and Trolls.

          • Perhaps – but it was a good opportunity to post the link for any newbies to disinformation tactics who might be reading this thread!

          • GreenWin

            Correct. Thank you. I found it illuminatiating.

          • daniel maris

            A troll certainly isn’t someone who points out as part of a rational discussion that Rossi has failed to live up to previous promises or that he could easily offer convincing demonstrations if he wanted to.

            I am not writing him off, but it is reasonable to point out where people are simply expressing hopes rather than certainties.

      • captain

        Get rid of TROLLS and the like, Admin, don’t let your guard down!

        • GreenWin

          Speaking on philosophy of commerce here is a real-world scenario for a very small distributed Combined Heat and Power plant for a small 10 unit multi-family dwelling.

          Start with a single 1MW hotcat as the heat source. Convert say, 30% that heat to electrical energy via the off the shelf Microsteam® Turbine Generator from Carrier (a United Technologies Company.) With losses we get about 250kW electrical energy for equal distribution amongst the ten families. http://www.commercial.carrier.com/commercial/hvac/general/0,3055,CLI1_DIV12_ETI10783,00.html

          Utilize the remaining ~650kW heat forced air, and hot water. In warm climes a packaged absorption chiller like Carrier’s 16LJ or similar could provide cool air and cold water. Excess heat is ported outdoors. Or adding another generator would send an additional 250kW feed-in to the utility – helping pay for the installation and operation.

          One other alternative is to use the second microturbine gen to directly run a central air unit for all ten homes. Best of course is, fuel costs might run $100-200 per year. Once HotCat low cost heat arrives the applications are enormous. Good times ahead.

          • GreenWin

            I should clarify the “remaining” heat after driving the turbine is waste heat leaving the turbine – as such with system losses it would likely be closer to 500kW waste heat for central forced air heating and hot water.

          • Tappanjack

            Green Win: This may be interesting, Mitsbushi Heavy has announced they will purchase the Pratt and Whitney low and medium power gas turbine business from UTX. Also in late November Mitsbushi and Hitachi agreed to merge their thermal power generation businesses.

          • Peter_Roe

            That is interesting. It’s possible that UTC are dumping the Pratt & Witney Power gas turbine business knowing that steam is the future of powergen and that this is best handled by another of their subsidiaries. But you could also read it several other ways, including that the Mitsubishi-Hitachi conglomerate is buying into the US power industry at any opportunity, and UTC is clueless!

            They (Japanese) would be in a very good position to know the reality of CF, and might be very inclined to partner with anyone who seems to have a workable system. And of course they desperately need an alternative to fission, as re-starting their fission reactors would be further proof of the clinical insanity or anti-human agenda of some of their leaders.

          • clovis

            Hey,Tapanjack.
            like that username, smile, now that’s a nice find, and makes good scene.thanks for posting.

    • dzejk

      Hello Paolo,
      Have you ever used this application: http://www.registroimprese.it/
      If Rossi has a company registered in Italy, we can get more info about it. The problem is that the site is only in Italian language.

  • freethinker

    Went to see if them trolls were still alive at ECN, now that some of them seem to frequent this site. To my utter amazement, they were alive.

    One who frequent ECN is RonB, and he wrote something that was interesting with regard to AR’s sometimes enigmatic messages wrapped in riddles:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Corporation

    If this company has already been discussed in this context (I guess it would have at some point) then I apologise for regurgitating old info.

    Nevertheless I find it very possible …

    • Peter_Roe

      Sorry Freethinker, yes it has been suggested (see previous thread).

    • Lu

      Interesting and possibly another play on words by Rossi. Rossi may have done something similar when he discussed (possible) Navy associations by saying “We are a well-armed battleship” with regard to his earlier financing.

      Suggested by Iggy Dalrymple on a post in early November but never really discussed here. Looking at the company profile, “The company’s Hamilton Sundstrand segment supplies aerospace products, including power generation, management and distribution” but to me Siemans (USA) or GE would be a stronger connection. It’s hard to believe that this won’t slip out before too long. Maybe we should keep an eye on the stock (UTX:NYSE)!

  • ecatmaniac

    Andrea Rossi
    December 16th, 2012 at 10:13 AM
    Dear Frank Acland:
    The philosophy of our USA Partner and of us is based on the following 4 pillars:
    1- this technology has to be consolidated and put at the service of Mankind
    2- industrialization of the manufacturing must reach low prices to lower the cost of energy in the World
    3- give back the money we earn as much as possible to cure cancer in children in the World
    4- produce good jobs
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • timycelyn

    A rapid response from Rossi to Frank’s questions relating to this thread:

    Frank Acland
    December 16th, 2012 at 9:06 AM
    Dear Andrea,

    You speak about your new partner sharing your philosophy. Could you provide a brief synopsis of what that philosophy is?

    Thank you, and best wishes,

    Frank Acland

    Andrea Rossi
    December 16th, 2012 at 10:13 AM
    Dear Frank Acland:
    The philosophy of our USA Partner and of us is based on the following 4 pillars:
    1- this technology has to be consolidated and put at the service of Mankind
    2- industrialization of the manufacturing must reach low prices to lower the cost of energy in the World
    3- give back the money we earn as much as possible to cure cancer in children in the World
    4- produce good jobs
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Omega Z

      timycelyn

      I’ve stated before, Siemens is into everything. Very Comparable to GE.
      Siemens is already a Major player in the Medical field. Including Cancer Research.

      • clovis

        Thanks Tim.
        And to you Frank, wow, wow,heck that deserves one more.wow.
        Iv heard so much bullocks, i was beginning to be swayed, but our fearless leader has restored my faith once again.,I know it seem i am biased when it comes to Dr. Rossi,but i siresoly believe he is a noble prize winner for sure, and will go down in history, because he is a real hero, that will save our world, now how is that, for what should be said about the man.-clovis

  • Gerrit

    Rossi says his partner is a “huge battleship”, I interpret that as a financially significant corporate entity, I imagine a Forbes 500 company.

    Pillars 2 + 4 fit with a forbes 500 company strategy

    Pillars 1 + 3 do not fit with a forbes 500 company strategy, unless there is a additional pillar 5: “forget pillars 1 – 4”

    A public traded company does not care about: 1) mankind 2) children with cancer

    • GreenWin

      While quarterly profits drive most public traded companies even the biggest do care (for whatever purpose) about charitable giving: last year Google donated $1.11B to charitable causes, Oracle 2.31B, Microsoft $950M, Pfizer $3.06B. A group called Sustainable Investing helps guide investors to companies with strong humanitarian philosophy:

      http://www.sustainableinvesting.net/Sustainable_Investing.php

      • Gerrit

        Sure companies give to charities, after they whipped out of society significantly more than what they’ll ever donate.

        “give back … as much as possible” to me is not compatible with corporate for profit thinking.

        And although there are surely exceptions to my pessimistic but realistic view of corporate ethics, I think you’ll never find a wording like those 4 pillars in any forbes 500 strategy book.

      • HeS

        There is no “charitable corporations”. Only people, perhaps those who manage corporations.

  • Miles

    I asked e-Cat Australia “Roger Green” if the e-Cat is still expected to be released Mid 2013 as stated on their website.

    The Awesome Reply I got: “we are hopeful for a mid 2013 release- however, these things take time. The inventor is going thru all the safety certificate procedures- it is taking time. Then manufacturing needs to begin. We are keeping everyone updated with our newsletter”

    This just sent shivers down my spin – this is great if they can deliver it. Not sure how long it will take the manufacturer to start pumping these cats out.

    So excited 🙂 !!! Hoping 2013 is the year !!!

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I thought the ecat had been for sale for quite some time, although not in a very polished form.

      • Miles

        I forgot to mention i was referring to the Domestic version of the e-cat.

    • Pweet

      He say’s “The inventor is going thru all the safety certificate procedures- it is taking time. Then manufacturing needs to begin.”

      What’s this? Needs to begin?
      Over a year ago A.R. kept saying ‘We are not making idle chatterings. We are making products.”
      And now we hear that manufacturing needs to begin, maybe in mid 2013, provided of course that nothing else crops up.
      I wonder how all those who placed preorders on one feel about that?
      Somehow that sounds more like the “idle chattereings” and less of the “making products” to me.

      • Omega Z

        Pweet

        Pay attention to Miles addendum.
        This pertains to the Home version E-cat.

        Rossi’s standard answer now is it depends on Safety Data from the Commercial/Industrial Units. There’s sure to be some Overly Optimistic views behind closed doors when this will happen Including Rossi. My bet is in the range of at least 3 years at best. Barring some inside info that We aren’t privy to.

      • GreenWin

        The whole world has been waiting for the “real soon now” deliverance of hot fusion. It was promised by the world’s greatest minds and experts in the early 1950s. That’s, why that’s more than half a century ago. WTF?

        WHERE are the fusion “unlimited” energy power plants? Or would that be the ITER, 300% over-budget, 20 years to completion, 40 years to over-unity power, 90 years to actual product that can help mankind. Are these “experts” of the mainstream not bamboozler, i-con artists?

        • Peter_Roe

          Not to mention, “Our children will enjoy in their homes energy too cheap to meter.” (1954). This was Lewis Strauss, then Chairman of the US Atomic Energy Commission, speaking to the National Association of Science Writers. It’s not clear whether he was referring to fission or fusion, but either way it now seems a tad optimistic.

          • GreenWin

            Excellent find Peter.

          • Peter_Roe

            Actually not so much of a find, as a memory, GW. Not the original, which I had to track down, but the phrase was repeated in the UK newspapers after the opening of the Calder Hall reactor in 1956 (complete with a fake motor-driven ‘output meter’ on a billboard!). It stuck in my mind for some reason (yes, I read the newspapers at age 6!). Sadly, still waiting for free energy after 56 more years.

      • HeS

        @:”And now we hear that manufacturing needs to begin”

        Maybe he means mass production. Currently, you have to wait for the Ecat delivery about 3-4 months. With mass production will be possible to supply 100 ECAT per day. Such mass production and sale of devices require special certificates.

  • John-xyz

    Rossi Says….

    That he has signed a unspecified contract with an unspecified company.

    The saga continues.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Just a coincidence, I’m sure, but Cyclone Power Technologies has just announced that:

    Cyclone Power Technologies Inc. (OTCQB: CYPW),
    developer of the all-fuel, clean-tech Cyclone Engine, announced today that it has signed a Letter of Understanding with Carroll, Ohio based Precision CNC to establish a production center for Cyclone Engines. The Company and Precision CNC, who have been working together over the past three years manufacturing prototype parts, expect to complete their agreement in the first quarter of 2013 subject to the close of required financing.
    http://www.cyclonepower.com/press/12-12-12.pdf

    • mikeS_50

      Cyclone Power Technologies – in Pompano Beach, Florida has announced News Releases at least 10 times in the last five years and has YET to produce a product, they are great at putting news releases with claims of deals then they disappear till the next NEWS RELEASE. * yes they sell stock – buyer beware.

      • Don Bell

        Dear Troll aka MikeS,
        Cyclone has delivered product to Rayteon. They will also be attempting to break the land speed record and take the title away from the British. Go Team Steam USA!!!

        • Peter_Roe

          http://www.gizmag.com/team-steam-usa/22380/

          Good luck, but if the US takes the record, we’ll have it back within the year!

          • timycelyn

            Go Bloodhound!!

        • mikeS_50

          Mr Bell, where are your deals – Cyclone Power Technologies – forever announcing great business transactions and product but no one reports of their success only you, maybe another press release this is a ongoing pattern with Cyclone Power Technologies from Pompano Beach, Florida. (we have seen it all before) pump and dump.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Less than 9¢/share downside risk. If they are pump&dumpers, they’ve done a poor job of pumping.

    • On the Rossi front, it seems like he is backing out the door, scattering roses as he grows closer to the exits. The Home E-Cat that could have saved lives during Hurricane Sandy in the northeast is now fading faster than fog in 100-degree sunshine. I think we’re all going to get faded pretty soon, but I hope not.

      • Peter_Roe

        It sounds to me like you may have been spending too much time over at ECN, Joe.

  • GreenWin

    To jump to theory for a moment – part of the philosophy of science IMO… Here is a fascinating video describing the state of art in BEC Bose Einstein Condensate. While not practical at room temp it is a process of cooling atoms until the become only wave functions.
    http://www.streamica.com/#v/fnqAwtorUTE

    This means in sci-fi type analogy, we can cool matter to a wave and then move that matter just as any other wave function, i.e. via electromagnetic carrier, optical fiber, perhaps even at audible frequencies. Dr. Kim at Purdue Uni believes this is in part the explanation for LENR.

    Dramatically, it confirms the phrase, “Beam me up Scotty.”

    • georgehants
      • Giuliano Bettini

        I do not understand why so many people (I mean: the skeptics) continues to waste time on something that does not exist.:)

        • Gerrit

          And “they” do not understand why so many people continue to believe in something that (“clearly”) doesn’t exist.

          They want to help us. Like the missionaries want to convert the savages, they want to save us from doom. We must praise their unselfish sacrifice to keep us from being led astray.

          And we call them names, how unfair and short sighted.

        • John-xyz

          Skeptics are not disbelievers. They want the e-cat to exist, they just want to use standard scientific methods to prove its existance. Such as 3rd party tests.

          Something we’ve been waiting 18 months for.

          Crazy, I know.

          • dzejk

            There are two types of skeptics – constructive skeptics and trolls. I am in group A. I really want LENR to work but so far I have not found a proof for it. Ex owner of petrodragon is simply not credible enough to ‘just believe’. Maybe I am just afraid of huge dissapointment.

            Let’s hope we (skeptics and belivers) will soon celebrate a new era.

          • Gerrit

            dzejk, are you sure you are in group A ?

            What has Rossi’s past to do with the verifiability of LENR ?
            What has petroldragon to do with, say, University of Missouri or SPAWAR ?

            You bring a 100% pseudoskeptic argument and you are just showing us that you simply haven’t done your homework.

          • GreenWin

            Group confusion dzejk.

          • Karl

            What you ask for is what the mainstream science has preferred to avoid seeing referring to CF/LENR, including falsifying or ignoring evidence for 23 year. In fact the priesthood of mainstream science have ignored physical evidence based on the assumption that the Quantum Mechanics THEORIES does not support it. Those that too fiersly hold on to these theories is the ones you should blame rather than the innovators and experimentalists that in spite of this opinion and resistance, act on real physical evidence.

          • Warthog

            Kind of ironic that they think “Quantum Mechanics Theories” don’t support LENR, when one of the world’s greatest experts in the mathematical formalism of QM (Dr. Julian Schwinger, Nobel Laureate, now deceased) thought that they did.

            When he said so out loud, and submitted papers to explore the topic, the physics journals REFUSED TO PUBLISH THEM. As a result, he resigned from the APS.

          • GreenWin

            Yep. Crazy to think any new discovery MUST come from the Church of Our Way. LENR is surely, not-so-slowly, putting this outdated orthodoxy to sleep.

          • Chris

            Again and again and again and again… Rossi is not a researcher, he is not a physicist, he is not a scientist and he owes nothing to anyone that he hasn’t concluded a contract with. Quit putting a square peg into a round hole.

            Nothing (apart from shortage of funds) prevents researchers from looking into these things if they so choose. If you’re so uptight about standard scientific method in these things, why don’t you just budge your lazy arse, instead of whining so? Guess what, several researchers have been doing it, and increasingly. Politically, we might even see more funding for these things and less for hot fusion.

            One obstacle is Rossi’s secret, but that is mainly a quantitative matter and anybody could do what he did i. e. try one thing after another. Even without it, several folks have been seeing results, albeit less dramatic than Rossi’s claims. Look up Piantelli’s patent, which is being finally granted by the EPO.

            18 months you say? In many fields of research, this is a brief enough time actually. Nothing to complain about.

          • timycelyn

            Well said!!

          • Bigwilly

            Am I correct to summarize the speculations below as “if it was know to be real it would cause instability and that would not be beneficial for Rossi” ??

            How come no one gives a rat’s petute about my shoe reactor??? It operates at 1201C. I have certificate that I sent away for. The launch is given by the below formula:

            Launch date = today + 1.5-2.5 months

            Just some ramblings
            BW

          • daniel maris

            There is no obstacle to giving convincing demonstrations.

          • When a convincing proof is delivered, some kind of chaotic period will begin in the world. At device availability stability however gradually returns. It’s responsible action from the inventor to try and minimise the duration of the more unpredictable period, perhaps even make it vanish. This is what seems to be happening.

          • GreenWin

            Indeed. There appears to be a very conscious effort to minimize the panic that could set in to mainstream social structures.

            While the economy will hiccup, the vast new marketplace created by low cost energy will lower the Wall Street body count. This TV program seems to indicate leading energy producers understand fission power will be abandoned.

            Yet to be explored is the vast market in nuclear waste management. There is evidence LENR provides a viable solution. Just one example of a transition from outdated technology producing jobs, income, abundance.

          • Chris

            Specify your criteria for it to be convincing.

        • captain

          Q:—Giuliano Bettini on December 17, 2012 at 11:22 am

          I do not understand why so many people (I mean: the skeptics) continues to waste time on something that does not exist.:)

          A>:—Thanks to our Admin that allows such a thread pollution…

    • Chris

      The stuff they talk about is not really new, they are among several folks working on it and I would exercise a good deal more caution in extrapolating from it.

  • Karl

    Quite a balanced introduction of A. Rossi and Cold Fusion on Swedish Television home site http://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/kall-fusion-utreds-som-ersattning-for-karnkraften

    • Gerald

      Afterwards at 21:00 CET a chat session.

      #bing translate#
      In tonight’s world of Science, Stv2 television at 8.00 pm, a report from the Italian factory where the first experimental reactors are manufactured.

      At 21 tonight also arranged a chat on svt. se/science where you can ask questions to the Swedish physicist on fusion energy.

      • Gerald

        Something else. Is the container in this video differente from previous ones? Can’t remeber the red boxen. Or is it just my memory playing ticks.

    • Lu

      First public sighting as far as I know of a “pizza box/small computer” configuration Rossi spoke of at the beginning of this year. Good to see. I wonder if it’s changed even more since then given his progress.

  • barty
    • daniel maris

      I can’t see anything relevant to the E cat or cold fusion/LENR.

      • captain

        A simple consideration: it could be that Rossi’s US technological/commercial partner, if not Siemens, is GE. Who knows?
        At any rate, from good to better.