Rossi: Electromotive Force Produced Directly from the Hot Cat [UPDATED]

Andrea Rossi has made some very interesting revelations about what the Hot Cat is capable of doing. We have heard about the 1000 C plus temperatures that it can apparently reach with stability, and how this will be able to generate steam at sufficient temperatures to produce electricity efficiently.

Now he is saying that the Hot Cat can also produce an electromagnetic force (EMF), and not through some kind of thermoelectric process, but directly from the hot cat reactor.

Here’s an interesting Q & A that took place on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today.

I received your words with great enthusiasm regarding the findings of measuring direct EMF from your LENR devices.

Q: 1. Were you referring to converting heat to electricity, or were you able to detect EMF coming directly from the reactor core?
A: directly from the reactor core

Q: 2. Is the amount of EMF seen moderated or controlled by the temperatures made by the Hot Cat?
A: still under probe

Q: 3. Will you next try to increase the effect to be able to produce power/energy directly without the need to convert heat to energy?
A: yes

4 Will it ever be possible to have a “Cold Cat” make energy without heat?
A: possibly

5 Or with less heat?
A: I hope too

The fact that EMF is produced directly by the reactor is very interesting, because up until now all that we have learned about the power of the E-Cat has come from the heat it produces. Now we find out about it producing an electromagnetic field, and it seems like the magnitude of field may not be dependent on the level of heat produced. This all makes the theoretical basis of the E-Cat even more intriguing. Perhaps the gamma rays that are produced in the reaction are producing the EMF as well as being converted to heat.

Rossi recently said he expects to publish the theory this year. Here’s hoping.

UPDATE: Here’s a further exchange on the topic from the JONP:

Steven Karels
January 2nd, 2013 at 8:22 AM
Dear Andrea Rossi,

Your previous postings mentioned “direct EMF” coming from the reactor core. Could you please clarify? I have heard of possible direct conversion to electricity by coupling the energy from a charged moving particle into a “transformer”. In general, is this the approach by which you are able to extract “direct EMF”?

Dear Steven Karels:
Yes, that is exactly the path we are walking through. Too soon to give precise info, though.
Warm Regards,

  • SecretOfOz

    2013. New age. Begun. Hopefully the emf achieved/achievable is significant enough. & I request Rossi to not have a change of heart from his present benevolent vision. If you change, change the way Robert Mockan wants to change. Open source. But remember what you said about big dogs and the bowl. Keep doing the right thing. You’ve come too far to cross over to the dark side. Love.

    • Mannstein

      I disagree. Rossi should go for the low hanging fruit first, that is, come up with a controllable boiler for generating superheated steam. If he succeeds with that he’ll have the world knocking at his door. Integrating such a boiler with a turbo generator is straight forward power engineering. Sales or license revenues from the boiler will help fund the research on the EMF effect he claims to be observing.

      • GreenWin


        • Blanco69

          Also agreed. I was happy to buy the story about dumping the cold cat for the hot cat. I can see that as a natural evolution of same principle. However, if the hot cat gets dropped or unreasonably delayed due to direct EMF research then I’ll be deeply suspicious…. again. Happy New Year fellow travellers!

          • Well, on January 1st Rossi wrote: “My next objective: start up the series of industrial E-Cats in construction.” So the EMF research seems to be a “hobby” for now.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        More than that. Much more. It would help fund the purchase of half the earth and everything in it.

  • Nixter

    When I asked the Direct EMF question, I was half expecting a negative response, such a discovery, even though now supposedly still in its infancy, is almost a kind of positive information overload. I’m not sure what to think, the initial claims are yet to be confirmed, and now an even bigger discovery is announced.

    If this is verified, it must be the result of Engineer Rossi’s new partners, using precision equipment and personnel to carefully study the reactor cores while being operated probably enabled the discovery of EMF occurring within the Rossi devices. Even though the amount of EMF measured may have been small, the implications of this find would be immediately apparent to anyone participating.

    I wonder why Rossi’s partners are allowing him to disclose this latest breakthrough, with hints of room temperature superconductivity being observed, I suppose we should be ready for the next announcements to be equally astounding and frequent. There may be a rare phenomenon of one Scientific discovery leading to others, most totally unexpected, this also causing other discoveries, etc, etc, a discovery cascade effect that generates more information than can be easily managed. This would explain some of the delays, by the time one design is ready to go into production, a major factor is found that can improve the design substantially, causing a redesign cycle that never ends. This is pure speculation on my part.

    As I said before, the February revelations or lack of them, will give us a clue as to the veracity of the latest claims. February will be an interesting time to live in.

    • Torbjörn

      “Ultra-dense deuterium was recently shown to be the first room-temperature superfluid, see Ref. 196 below. It also shows a Meissner effect at room temperature (Ref. 204) and is thus probably also superconductive at room temperature.”

      • GreenWin

        And utilizing the Meissner effect provides all kinds of fun opportunities:

        Non-radiative super heat, superconductivity at room temps, EMF, ultra-dense deuterium, Rydberg matter, Hydrino…

        Can those levitating skateboards be far off?

        • Peter_Roe

          Two of them fitted to a comfy armchair would be more my style.

    • One possibility for the direct EMF is gamma conversion. The most recent discussion on ECW was on Nov 5 2012 where US-patent 4178524 using layered high and low Z materials was mentioned. There are also other methods, e.g. US8094771 which uses liquid semiconductors.

      Radiation such as X-rays or energetic charged particles has multi-keV energy so the corresponding Carnot efficiency is nearly 100%, even relative to HotCat’s 1050 C temperature. Although this theoretical fact doesn’t make it any easier to design a direct conversion device with high efficiency, it means that a direct conversion scheme (X-ray or such) could coexist with an outer thermal conversion layer (thermionic, thermophotovoltaic, thermoelectric or fluid-based) without disturbing each other’s conversion efficiency. Different thermal converters cannot usually be efficiently combined, but thermal and non-thermal can.

    • Omega Z


      3rd party help in the EMF detection.

      A post by Bernie Koppenhofer on Dec. 30

      Part of Rossi’s response.
      I think we will be able to produce directly e.m.f. , but much work has to be done. Actually, we already produced direct e.m.f. with the reactors at high temperature, and we measured it with the very precise measurement instrumentation introduced by the third party expert,

    • Sylvie

      Mass production is delayed and delayed and delayed because of Rossi’s improvements and discoveries.
      This is ridiculous.
      Apple doesn’t wait to finish his iphone 7 to mass produce the iphone 5!!!

      When I see that mass production is always delayed for whatever reason, it makes me think that Rossi may be a scam.

      I follow Rossi for about 1 year and a half and I don’t think he’s a scam, but when I see that he always delays mass production, it is very frustrating and odd.

      • GreenWin

        Ah, nice the t-rolls have not yet returned to their rocks. iPhones? Cell phones were invented by Motorola in 1973, erm… 40 years ago! Rossi’s e-cat was first demoed in 2011… 3 years ago! Math?

    • Mannstein

      When did Rossi hint at superconductivity. Generating an EMF due to a temperature gradient in a material (Peltier Effect) was discovered long ago. It is not dependent on superconductivity. If Rossi’s device can generate superheated steam he’ll have a winner since this would allow him to generate electrical power using a conventional turbo generator.

      • artefact

        Defkalion said something about superconductivity recently.

  • captain

    Nixter,Torbjörn,Pekka Janhunen,Omega Z ==> excellent comments, thanks!

    And a big TNANK U to our Admin, for having created this blog: one more reason now, Frank, to keep it running smoothly, to be visited with pleasure.


    No need of more words. (sorry for block letters 😉 )

    • robyn wyrick

      With due respect, while many of us have real hope that Cold Fusion / LENR will take off as a solid, practical technology, and that the E-Cat in particular is a big success, nevertheless, I really welcome skepticism and “nonbelievers”.

      Even Frank puts substantial caveats on his posts, regularly saying things like, “if this is real” or “if this takes off”, and stuff like that.

      I think the good news is that we have passed the point where belief is required: we have a developing market. And if you’ll pardon the irony of that statement (all markets operate on belief), I think we don’t need to worry about debating at that level.

  • georgehants

    Is this the New Year when science is going to wakeup and start doing Science.
    Not denying everything beyond the steam engine and following religious negative Dogma like a load of robotic clones.
    The Evidence for UFO’s is clear and undeniable, what UFO’s are, psychological, material or just beyond known science is what science is there to find out, with unbiased, open and professional research.
    As with many other equally proven and clear scientific subjects, like Cold Fusion where the establishment and it’s completely incompetent qualified followers scream denial and debunking in place of the only scientific principle or method of any worth —-
    Open Minded following of Evidence, good theory and even intuition to find answers to every Wonderful challenge that Nature gives us.
    The way to the answers is not pathetic opinion but follow the honest Evidence and do the Bloody research.

    • georgehants

      New Scientist
      Mathematical proof reveals magic of Ramanujan’s genius
      The result confirms Ramanujan’s incredible intuition, says Ono. While Ramanujan was able to calculate the value of modular forms, there is no way he could have done the same for mock modular forms, as Ono now has. “I calculated these using a theorem I proved in 2006,” says Ono, who presented his insight at the Ramanujan 125 conference in Gainesville, Florida, this week. “It is inconceivable he had this intuition, but he must have.”|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news

    • Sean.

      Interesting. Have you seen Bob Lazer’s element 115 reactor?

    • georgehants: (Supernatural phenomena research programme funded by Academy of Finland, googletranslate works relatively fine on it)
      They put 2.2 Meur to it. They claim that research on the topic is so small that this will probably put Finland to international forefront.

      • georgehants

        Pekka, thank you, any sign that science is moving beyond it’s reductionist myths and beginning to look at reality is very good news.

    • robyn wyrick

      Hi George,

      I have seen you (I think it was you) post several times about UFOs, and while I don’t have any significant information on the subject, I tend to be hesitant to believe that there is actually solid evidence.

      And honestly – please pardon me – I am uncomfortable with the conflating of issues (UFOs and Cold Fusion) that are both so denigrated by the scientific community, when I think, on one of those (CF/LENR), the scientific “consensus” is wrong.

      It would be (again, pardon the comparison) like if someone said both Cold Fusion and Genies were real – it would tend to discredit Cold Fusion as a serious science.

      Less than one year ago I first learned that the story of Cold Fusion’s failure was being flipped on its head, so I am not opposed to reading new information.

      So would you please post a link (or whatever you want) for the doubtful to look at about UFOs? I confess that I am not very open, but I will genuinely do my best.

      Thanks much, and Happy New Year.

      • georgehants

        robyn, a very clever attempt to react a circular position on UFO’s.
        My putting the two scientific subjects in the same bowl is quite justified as they are both irrationally debunked and denied by scientists working by a completely un-scientific method of opinion and not research.
        I will leave you to research for any Evidence and you can then give your opinion to it’s value if you wish.
        I am not hear to convince you or anybody what UFO’s are, simply to put forward the Scientific principle that if in doubt about Cold Fusion or UFO’s, do the Bloody research and stop having childish discussions of opinion about what they are.

        • georgehants

          Sorry, no Edit, read create for (react).
          I did not mean you are childish but so called scientists that spend there time giving or listening to opinions about if Cold Fusion or UFO’s are “real”.
          With any Evidence, do the Bloody research.

          • b4FreeEnergy

            This might be an interesting starting point:

            He did do the bloody research!

            Indeed off-topic but for this site but often treated in the same way as LENR or Cold fusion or whatever. It’s not because main-stream science says there is nothing to it and laughs with it that they are right!

          • georgehants

            b4FreeEnergy, thank you.
            A scientist looks at all Evidence before attempting to state any opinion.
            If one wishes a good start may be this link.
            Pherhaps anybody on page after reading this link would like to give their scientific reasons for not researching UFO’s.
            COMETA was a high-level French UFO study organisation from the late 1990s, composed of high-ranking officers and officials, some having held command posts in the armed forces and aerospace industry. The name “COMETA” in English stands for “Committee for in-depth studies.” The study was carried out over several years by an independent group of mostly former “auditors” at the Institute of Advanced Studies for National Defence, or IHEDN, a high-level French military think-tank, and by various other experts.
            The group was responsible for the ‘COMETA Report’ (1999) on UFOs and their possible implications for defence in France. The report concluded that about 5% of the UFO cases they studied were utterly inexplicable and the best hypothesis to explain them was the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH). The authors also accused the United States government of engaging in a massive cover-up of the evidence.

          • b4FreeEnergy

            Hi George.

            It’s not only about looking at ‘all’ the evidence before making up their minds but apparently loads of interesting information also seems to disappear before most people even had the chance to investigate it because “it is decided” that it is a matter of national (US) security or even worse, they tell us we could not handle that information!

            Who are they to decide that we cannot handle certain information!? They were probably born with a more advanced brain …

            So in the end it’s all about power, they have the power to get away with this crap.

            How may patents are supressed because of that same national security nonsense! – We are being fooled while we are looking at it!

            One interesting thing which is maybe more on topic on this site I saw recently is this: – That thing is said to be working but it is very difficult or even impossible to find more and decent information about it.

            So once more it seems that mister Rossi has an interesting development going on but even without him we already have and had all we need since quite some time but we’re not ‘allowed’ to use it.

            Remember Henry Moray already in the 1930’s could generate 55kW out of thin air and nobody could prove him to be a fraud! – Not that I’m old enough to have witnessed his demonstrations … 😉

            But still!
            Best regards,

          • georgehants


          • Jay

            I totally agree that UFO´s are real. Per definition, as soon that somebody see something flying and nobody now what it is, it is an UFO.

            The tricky things are:
            A. How do we know that nobody knows what it is?
            B. Since sightings are isolated events, with several possible explanations, they must be investigated as such.
            C. Since they all are past events, it is difficult to do real time measurements. One often has to rely on, if lucky, witness reports and data not intended to be an experiment. Such investigations are more in the realm of journalists and criminal investigators than scientists.

            What is your opinion on how such scientific research should be performed in order to get some certain results?

            I assume that a statement as “since no good explanation could be found, it must be an extraterrestrial” is not a valid scientific evidence for a certain result.

            I am not saying that there aren’t interesting things to be found if one could do massive investigations and data collection of all the UFO sightings in the world. But since science only deal with levels of certainty, and the nature of the phenomena, such investigations would rarely give any certain results. The most likely result would be that some percentage could be explained with high certainty by a “natural” explanation, and the rest still be uncertain.

            And please George, I am not trying to attack you in any way, only having a normal discussion, even if I maybe see things differently.


        • robyn wyrick

          Hey George,

          I certainly don’t wish to be disingenuous, I’m honestly unclear. Part of the problem is that (just like with LENR) it’s very difficult to identify what is an actually authoritative source.

          But thanks for the COMETA link.

          Happy New Year!

          • georgehants

            robyn, only the Truth matters and that is not always easy to find unless one does one’s own research to source.
            Cold Fusion is a very good example.
            Very Happy New Year to you.

    • Hampus

      Please don’t put ColdFusion in the same camp as UFO’s. They have nothing related.

    • Pweet

      ^^ @ georgehants on January 2, 2013 at 9:51 am
      which says in part;
      “Open Minded following of EVIDENCE, GOOD THEORY and even intuition to find answers to every Wonderful challenge that Nature gives us.
      The way to the answers is not pathetic opinion but follow the HONEST EVIDENCE and do the Bloody research.”

      You can read that statement as applying to either side.
      To determine which side it applies to most you would need to produce the “evidence” and the “good theory”.
      Keep in mind that the “evidence” needs to be verified.
      Unfortunately, so far the research has not been able to verify anything outside the range of experimental error.
      So far, that’s the way it is.

      • georgehants

        Pweet, thank you, it is very difficult to follow your reasoning, Of course it applies both ways, that is what science is for.
        How do scientists verify Evidence if not by doing the Bloody research.
        Your statement, “Unfortunately, so far the research has not been able to verify anything outside the range of experimental error.” is totally inaccurate as the open-minded, unbiased, professional, scientific research has never been undertaken, as with Cold Fusion, beyond proven distorted and censored denials and debunking.
        You may wish to read my above link to the Cometa report and comment on that.

      • georgehants

        Reply in moderation.

    • Andy Kumar


      Not sure about UFOs. But I am an agnostic on astrology.

      Long time ago, I was arguing with my roommate’s belief in astrology. He was a graduate student in engineering and told me with a straight face that if light from the planets can affect your retina why is it so inconceivable that the alignment of planets at your birth won’t haunt you for the rest of your life. I had to concede that my suspicion of astrology was illogical.

      Honest to God, I did not make this up! He is now a professor at an elite US university.

  • Peter_Roe

    There is an inference to be drawn from the phrase “very precise measurement instrumentation” which is that the emf is currently small, perhaps very small, and requiring sensitive instruments to detect it. There is also the question of how much heat needs to be generated in order to produce the emf – it may be a secondary effect at best.

    There are many systems which develop an electrical potential difference under various circumstances, but which are not suitable for the production of useful power. My guess would be that optimising this effect to the point of usefulness may require the use of a theoretical framework that doesn’t seem to be available just yet. I hope Rossi is focused on helping to get a conventional steam cycle driven by CF working first – more esoteric systems can come later.

    • Renzo

      I agree the effect is probably very small, it is a very interesting path for future developements but only when other scientists will be able to study it and figure out a decent theory. It will take years.

  • Hugo

    Let us hope this doesn’t mean Mr. Rossi will concentrate his energies on EMF rather than bringing the e-cat to market. I understand that the hot e-cat is more useful than the first e-cat and that an EMF e-cat would be more useful than a hot e-cat but there will always be something better than what we have now. Where would Apple be if they had decided to skip the iphone one because the two was so much better and right before that came to market, they skipped it because they had some good ideas about what to build into number three and so on?

    • HeS

      Currently A.Rossi does not have any impact on the production and sale of E-Cat. He is a scientific consultant for partner and write about his job (R&D).

      • Peter_Roe

        Rossi is still supposed to be Chief Scientific Officer for whatever aggregated concern is producing the hot cat pilot plant – it seems unlikely that this would be an honorary position.

        • HeS

          Yes, he is an “Chief Scientific Officer”. But if the partner is a really large corporation, then A.Rossi is one of the many “scientific officers” and he is no in position to decide on company business plans.

        • GreenWin

          And as a majority stock holder – doubtful there is no control involved.

      • Hugo

        Where did he ever say he was nothing more than scientific consultant? Last I checked he called himself President and CEO of Leonardo.

    • Jon

      Rossi is constantly tweaking his designs and this has enabled several versions of the ecat. I believe his new partners are taking his different designs and fine tuning them for mass production. Low temp ecat for homes and high temp ecats for replacing existing steam generators. The end goal is a combined electricity, heat, cooling system in a package suitable for placing in the back yard of any home.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Jon – “The end goal is a combined electricity, heat, cooling system in a package suitable for placing in the back yard of any home.”

        We hope!

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          Rossi’s partner may try to milk every ounce of profit from the industrial market before it offers a domestic CF-gen-set. Once the domestic gen-set is on the market, much of the industrial market will dry up. They may never offer the domestic gen-set until a competitor threatens to beat them to the punch.

          • walker


          • Hampus

            That competitor could be Defkalion

  • barty

    I hope Rossi will use this EMF potential in a next generation Hot Cat, and will not shift the release into the unknown future until he and his team don’t have a working “EMF2Electricity” converter.

    In the past, allways when Rossi was near to market entry he made new “revolutionary” progress…

  • barty

    It seems like Defkalion signed a contract with a italian manufacturing company for the production of large amounts of hyperion reactors:

    • Renzo

      The Defkalion website says:
      “European R&D Center: 5 via Bastia, Milano 20139, Italy – Tel: +39 0253 92829”
      the above phone number belongs to MOSE S.R.L.
      there are many S.R.L. with that name but I found one in Vigevano (not far from Milano) with an interesting description:
      “Study and research, design, construction and development of prototypes, and the engineering and mass production and sale of machinery and plants for the processing and production of energy, with high performance and high efficiency(activity carried out at the local facility in Noviglio)”

    • hey barty !

      thanks renzo and barty for the nice news… I will relay it on lenr-forum !

      by the way happy new year…

      • georgehants

        Agreed, Interesting.

    • captain

      Never say never. Should Leonardo corp. ‘hesitate’ as it seems so far, for a E-Cat production in Italy (but the R&D center), the greek competitor should be available for the deal. Because the global market wants to see only a device satisfactorily working and on sale ASAP.

      Only thru a real competition the prices of clean and safe energy will go down. And, mainly, thru small domestic devices that produce electric energy. A COP of 3, just as startup, could be accepted anyhow.

      • Pweet

        An ordinary air conditioner has a COP of 3 and it has that when making heat or cold. And they’ve been on sale for many years.
        And they don’t need recharging every six months.
        A COP of 3 would only be of value to prove the principle so as to justify further work.
        A COP of 6 is about the minimum required to make it a viable proposition.
        And unfortunately, in spite of numerous opportunities, so far that is still unproven.

  • buffalo

    i might add that if they were to couple the nickel grains directly onto a low work function metal eg.cesium thin film they could get a rather high efficiency heat to electric energy conversion using a MIM diode type thermionic setup.Conversion efficiencies up to 40percent and higher are possible this way.

    • timycelyn

      Maybe you should post this on Rossi’s blog….



    • A problem is that caesium melts at 28 C and boils at 671 C, and other alkali metals are rather similar. Maybe some alkali metal compound would tolerate 1050 C, though.

      That said, the problem is similar to finding a good thermionic emission electron gun cathode material. One of the best known overall is lathanum hexaboride (LaB6). Its thermionic emission is reasonably good and it’s a rather durable material.

      • buffalo

        cesium bulk melts yes but researchers have used thin films on high temp solar systems where its coating on silicon withstands fairly high temps(PETE effect they call it) the rare earth metal hexaborides would indeed be candidates as you say.even semiconducting diamond thin film would do.

  • georgehants

    January 2nd, 2013 at 6:35 AM
    Dear Rossi,
    I would like to undersand a bit better the issue about the need of the drive. Somewhere I read that every now on the ecat needs “energy” (electric power or gas heating). This means to me that the self sustaining mode is lasting only for some of the time and then it faints. Did you find a way to have a longer lasting ssm? Is there some reason that explains this phenomenon? I understand the ecat cannot explode (melting the nickel it shut down itself) but it seems that the ecat is not very stable (although not dangerous). Could you please give some more explanation on the needing of the driver?
    Best regards and Happy new year.
    Andrea Rossi
    January 2nd, 2013 at 7:12 AM
    Dear Stefano:
    With the drive the E-Cat is absolutely stable and safe.
    The reason for which the drive is necessary is confidential, because connected with the internal operation of the reactor.
    Happy New Year to you!
    Warm Regards,

    • I cannot see how the reactor could “know” if power driving it is not a gas flame or grid electricity, but electricity coming from a battery which was previously loaded from electricity generated by the heat output of the same core. I also think that it should be possible alternatively to reduce the driving power by modulating the reactor’s cooling rate by mechanical or other means.

  • Zaghlool

    I can not believe that , I think A.Rossi is playing black magic !

    • Dan Woodward

      This is not so incredible. Hagelstein at the Univ. of Illinois has already published results of his LANR “battery” (it generated V and I directly).

      • Zaghlool

        OK, where is your proof , do you have U-Tube clip for that or just telling me fake stories ?
        I can beleive any thing without irrefutable verification.

        • Orion

          Zaghlool, I believe that Dan may be refering to the following:

          That said, I find your request for a YouTube clip as “Irrefutable Verification” very amusing. 😉

          Kind regards,

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          If it is on u-tube it has to be true! (:

      • mikeb

        Isn’t Hagelstien an MIT professor? I suppose there could be more than one…

  • Ramsy

    Well, if the electromagnetic field produced is alternating ( not DC ),then emf can be obtained easily by placing wire (coil) across it.

    • Jacob

      It is not that easy, the temperature inside the reactor is very high, while the wire insulation varnish is good up to only 200 degree C.

  • clovis

    Hi, everyone,
    Well, well, well i had figured as much, if anyone reads my post i have said more than once that i believed, that there were other things going on ion the e-cat than what was being released, i predicted that protons,gamma, netruno’s, and all sorts of useful particals, were being cast off, of the e-cat,

  • Andreiko

    The use of thermocouples in the hot-cat for the supply of electricity seems to me to be a good possibility.The high temperature of the reactor makes this possible, likely Dr. Rossi already attention.

    • Jacob

      Thermocouple is used only for temperature measurements ,it produces only milli volts – Not suitable for electrical power production.

      • Andreiko

        Best Jacob of course, you must think of a THERMOPILE

      • buffalo,l be surprized my friend.with semiconductors nowadays astounding thermoelectric power efficiencies are possible eg.indium antimonide,gallium antimonide,zinc antimonide

  • Jacob

    Actually normaly such good invention ideas are given only by inspiration and not through large amount of money and intensive research- It is a gift given for selected people at a pe-determined time for unknown reasons.

    • I think that this is true.

    • georgehants

      Jacob, did you see my link for Ramanujan below, a Wonderful story that has baffled science for many years but is now proving to be even more unexplainable.

  • sparks

    This has the distinctive ring of a red herring, that is, a distraction to pull focus away from earlier-promised publications, installations, and production. Haven’t we seen this several times before?! My bet would be that the reported EMF is a minor byproduct, a phenomenon that is unlikely to ever become the direct energy transfer mechanism.

    We shall see, of course, in due time …

    • daniel maris

      Well this EMF gambit does seem to follow the “hot cat” gambit. Is Rossi going to tell us he has given up on the “hot cat” because he now has the EMF-cat? If so, then I think we can all declare what this is.

      Andrea, it’s time to put up.

      • One should also follow what he writes on JONP: “My next objective: start up the series of industrial E-Cats in construction.” (January 1)

      • sparks

        Daniel, I gave you a like. We have come a long way, sir!

      • robiD

        If BMW studies hydrogen fuel cars, doesn’t mean that they’ve stopped to work on other cars and that they will anymore delivery BMW series 5 cars.

        The idea that Rossi gives up the hot-cat is completely your assumption, where did you read it?
        Why do you have to change the reality only because you are a skeptic? Be honest before being a skeptic.

    • Gerrit

      To me it doesn’t matter much. Even if everything is real, as long as we don’t see any tangible evidence, we still have nothing.

      The only Rossi-news that is significant will be the 3rd party validation report and/or a working e-cat at a real industrial site and I am not really expecting these without delays. As a matter of fact the delays have already been announced by Rossi. The report might be published in February, but will it ? The 1MW will be delivered to the customer in February, make that March or April and it will take a while to get it to run stable (add two months -> June) and then the customer will want to see several months of stable operation before he reveals himself (-> October).

      I agree with user sparks that Rossi future plans start to look like it will carry on and on without ever delivering a final product. Eternal R&D based on promised bright outlooks. e-cat -> hot-cat -> EMF-cat -> ultimate-cat -> ad-inf-cat

      My 2013-LENR-highlight will be the ICCF-18 organized by University of Missouri and Purdue University in July

      I do not think that Rossi will reveal anything he has (or hasn’t) before then.

      Happy new year

  • Sylvie

    Has Defkalion started the mass production of its hyperions?

    • Renzo

      for what they have shown untill now it seems they are still at R&D stage and don’t have a stable prototype, unless they want to make us a surprise

      • barty

        But it’s now some time ago when we heared from them.

        Probably they made progress. Mose SrL also worked together with Celani, i think it’s possible they have more knowledges about tuning up and controlling the LENRs.

      • Luca Salvarani

        Non dirmi che stai prendendo sul serio quelli di Defkalion? Qui se c’è uno che può fare qualcosa è solo Rossi! E più passa il tempo e più mi convinco che ce la farà!

        • Renzo

          No, infatti non li prendo sul serio perchè penso che siano parecchio indietro, penso che se avessero già un prototipo funzionante avrebbero pubblicato qualcosa. Invece dopo i primi annunci ottimisti devono essere rimasti impantanati. Secondo me alcuni greci stanno rimpiangendo amaramente di aver fregato Rossi 😉

    • barty
      • Jorge

        What is this Mose company and why did 3 people gave it a Like ?

        • psi

          The link is far from transparent, that’s for sure.

        • daniel maris

          Best to assume we are in familiar scam territory (dodgy websites, meaningless “contracts” and all the rest) unless they prove otherwise.

          If DGT really have something it should take them about two milliseconds to prove it. 🙂

          • daniel maris

            It seems now that if you raise any sort of sceptical objection you are going to “await moderation”.

            The fault is not with sceptics but with those who are failing to deliver simple proofs of geunine operation.

        • Peter_Roe

          There are company registration numbers – perhaps one of our Italian contributors could see if there is any more info to be had from official sources?

          • Peter_Roe

            Ah – I see that Renzo is already on the case…

            MOSE SRL, Via Bastia, 5/7, 20139 Milan (MI) Tel: +39 0253 92829 stated to be “European R&D Center” by Defkalion, and:

            MOSE SRL Registered office VIA MONTE GRAPPA 20 Vigevano (PV) 27,029


            Thanks, Renzo – very interesting.

          • Peter_Roe

            And thanks Barty for the webpage link of course.

          • georgehants

            Fusion Energy’s Dreamers, Hucksters, and Loons
            Bottling up the power of the sun will always be 20 years away.
            By Charles Seife|Posted Thursday, Jan. 3, 2013,
            Just a few weeks ago, a bunch of fusion scientists used South Korean money to begin designing a machine that nobody really thinks will be built and that probably wouldn’t work if it were. This makes the machine only slightly more ludicrous than the one in France that may or may not eventually get built and, if and when it’s finally finished, certainly won’t do what it was initially meant to do. If you’ve guessed that the story of fusion energy can get a bit bizarre, you’d be right.

          • GreenWin

            The most entertaining part of this article by “New Scientist” writer and mathematician Charlie Sief is his utter confusion about how LENR works. While his Slate diatribe is mostly accurate when talking about the absurdity of hot fusionists and their multi-billion $$ taxpayer funded black holes (ITER, NIF, mag confinement, etc.) – he has absolutely NO CLUE about cold fusion research data and empirical difference from hot fusion.

            Here we find evidence of the latest scheme to discredit the science of LENR. Confused “journalists” like Sief knowingly dismiss the hard evidence accumulated over the past 23 years of LENR research; then lump LENR in with the loony hot fusionists – as if they are all from one taxpayer bilking family. How such a conclusion arrives from the mind of an NYU “Journalism Professor” can only be a work of gnarled science fiction.

            To his limited credit Seif makes well-known points about 60 years of failed hot fusion schemes:

            “…scientists at Livermore National Lab [National Ignition Facility] keep pretending that their hyper-expensive laser research is somehow going to produce fusion energy, even though they’ve got to go through Rube Goldberg-esque variations of the idea to make it look like they’ve got a shot at success. (For those keeping score at home, the latest project, too, will be an abject failure if it ever gets funding.)”


            At some point Mr. Seife should do an experiment in his home sink – running hot and cold water to “feel” the fundamental difference between hot and cold fusion. There are millions of degrees of separation. But one must be sensitive to hot and cold just as one is to good and evil – to be an honest journalist.

          • GreenWin

            ADMIN: the above is meant only as a review of Seife’s misinterpretation of LENR science and scientists.

      • NJT

        Yep, means NOTHING in its present form…Anyone who wanted to spend a few bucks (URL’s run about $10 US dollars per year) and a few minutes with a wiz-e-wig website template can make similar and even better than this EASILY…

        • daniel maris

          I agree. In fact this sort of announcement actually increases doubt in my view.

        • you seems to ignore the severity of the situation in greece.
          People and business no more even trust the bank to keep euro, and in las t autumn they were afraid that their euro will be converted in inflating Drachm.
          moreover the greek government was visibly opposing DGt business with stupid regulation concerns…
          add to that the instability on taxes, the lack of infrastructure because the state is backrupt…

          the fear was so high that nobody want to business with greek companies, in greek territory, under greek law, under greek taxes, in greek bank…

  • Andy Kumar

    Hi All,

    Happy new year. I used to be a “believer”, now I am truly dismayed by “Rossi Says”. I posted this on ecatnews, reposting here. Hope Frank allows this. Let us see what other believers have to say to this.

    “1- directly from the reactor core”

    After following Rossi for almost 2 years, I have finally come to the conclusion that Mr. Rossi bullsh*ts a lot (let him sue me if he likes).

    In my very first post at this or the other website, I had called myself a “believer from the beginning in Rossi”. But I never for a minute believed in his claim of e-cat factories making millions of units when no safety certifications were done. Those certifications cannot be done in secret without public notice and input from interested “experts”. I attributed his outrageous claims to justified or unjustified delusions of grandeur.
    I am not scientifically naive by any standard. My belief in Rossi was based in part on the following:

    1. If electrons can tunnel thru potential barriers, there is hope for some kind of tunneling at nuclear level.
    2. Other countless delusional “inventors” did not have the kind of respectable people Rossi had around him (Focardi et. al.)
    3. It does not take a genius to come up with great inventions. Some intuition and Edisonian effort will suffice.

    • GreenWin

      Hilarious Andy – and not untrue, for the most part. What do you suppose Harold would say? But there are theoretical magnetically charged particles on multilayered surfaces observed by Adamenko S and Vysotskii V (2005)(1); and discussed in Dr. Edmund Storms peer reviewed paper “Status of Cold Fusion 2010” published in Naturwissenschaften, 97 (2010) 861.

      Observation and modeling of the ordered motion of hypothetical magnetically charged particles on the multilayer surface and the problem of low-energy fusion. Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, ICCF-12, Yokohama, Japan, World Scientific

      Of course this doesn’t make e-cat EMF more true. And it is so much easier to dis-rossi-says this and that than do any honest research in published data and reports. 🙂

    • georgehants

      Interesting, why would it matter if somebody is a believer or a disbeliever.
      Some people seem to think that their opinion is going to change the Facts.
      Only Evidence and Truth counts, everything else is not Science but bar-room conversation and tittle tattle.

      • dzejk

        George, great to hear you have some reasuring facts regarding ECAT. Could you please share them with us, I want to believe …

        • georgehants

          dzejk, I think most of the Facts are covered on these pages and like you I read with great interest all Evidence and analysis by the competent people that we are very lucky to have with us.
          I have no further Facts or Evidence than you, but wait for confirmation one way or the other just as every other reader waits.

          • dzejk


            ‘Rossi says ‘ != fact
            Speculation by analyists != fact
            Your favourite poster’s post != fact

          • georgehants

            dzejk, If that is how you scientifically deduce Facts I think you may be in Error.

          • GreenWin

            George, certain people are simply too lazy to read data in published journals (e.g. Chuck Sief at Slate) – finding it far easier to attack Ing Rossi’s blog comments to readers.

          • Rockyspoon

            And either may be right or neither may be right–but which is easier, to be a critic or an engineer? You seem to have the former accomplished. Whether Rossi is or isn’t successful should only impact you if you continue to follow him. Take a break and come back when there’s no doubt one way or the other.

          • Bigwilly

            Hey dzejk,

            Those aren’t facts. I don’t think there is any facts concerning the E-cat. We have to take Rossi at his word that he has created a cold fusion device, scaled it up to commercial levels and scaled up the temperature by a factor of ten and then is able to get direct electricity gain from it. Also I think he and Defkalion simultaneously discovered room temperature superconductivity.

            There is no EVIDENCE that he did not do these things so the rational thing to do is to not opine that he didnt. If you do you are either a troll, shill or should be posting on another website.

            Good day fair sir,

  • The argument of the production of electicity on the basis of temperature
    is only to protect investment in old infrastucture. The use of this singular parameter in relation to efficientcy would then say that the boiling water torus generators of the nuclear power plant needing only
    somewhat more than 100c are very inefficient. A workable product more
    economic than existing sources could have been used with the first
    generation e-cat.

    The year long wait for the UA certification is quizzical. They are no longer the only certification company available and I wonder if the
    others would have taken so long.

    As far as the small capital distributed power and domestic users are
    concerned it appears more likely that a simular device with another
    technology will be first.

    In the end Rossi might grab most of the marbles but the more he waits
    to diversify with R&D the more likely it is competing company or technology will be first with something environmenally freindly and near the same cost.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      It is my opinion that is exactly what Rossi is doing, his new partner is helping diversify research and also taking over admin problems like patents and certification.

  • Stephen

    One has to admit the guy is very creative in inventing his stories… in a way, he’s quite professional!

    Happy new year of X-files by AR to everybody! 🙂 Year #3, let’s see what happens…

    • Frank

      Not only Rossi is creative, also his followers are quite inventive with creating speculations and high expectations. – Just have a look about the speculations who might be Rossi’s new ‘strong’ partner.
      But real business is not based on dreams, or why does Warren Buffet invest in solar, when a e-cat which works as Rossi claims, would make solar obsolete?

      • Joel C.

        Maybe even the great Warren Buffet isn’t aware E-Cat exists. He’s not omniprescent, you know. He does lose money from time to time by his mistakes, just like any human being.

        • Stephen

          or maybe not…

      • Chris I

        Maybe he has been swayed by the skeptopaths. Your point reminds me of a hilarious joke I once heard, but it’s too long to write it here, at least at the moment.

      • Rockyspoon

        The bill to avert the fiscal cliff had over $8 Billion to prop up wind energy–and somebody as well-connected politically as Buffet can see a gift horse when one is presented. I’m sure Buffet sees solar as another government-subsidized gift horse.

        • Omega Z


          I agree. When you invest in a Solar or Wind farm & get 1/3rd of your investment back immediately, It’s like free money. This is just the tip of the scheme.

          No income tax on profits of sales of the energy for a period of time. This varies by project.

          Near all this production is used for peek demand, not base load. It’s not dependable enough for base load.
          That’s a big Gotcha. If they can produce Electricity but it is not needed, To bad. They still get paid for all projected power production anyway. Use it, or lose it, pay anyway.

          People like Buffet are in the know & when they are aware the Gravy train is going to end, they’ll sell to those unsuspecting investors before it becomes common knowledge. Insider trading pure & simple.

      • Vernc

        Buffett investing in solar has everything to do with his investment strategy and nothing to do with ecat being valid or invalid. Solar has been around for a very, very long time. He has waited until he sees long term growth potential for solar before getting deeply invested.

        Ecat is way to bleeding edge for him or most other traditional investors. But there would certainaly be more VC money if Rossi had more solid third party validation and/or units running at customer sites on a continual basis.

  • Roger Bird

    I promise to get excited about this and everything else Rossi when we get some confirmation. It possible that he is just stringing us along so as to keep LENR research going.

  • mikeb

    This article seems to be somewhat on topic, but as i am not a physicist I will leave it to more informed posters on this blog to examine. It concerns the generation of electric current via manipulation of a magnetic field.

  • Master

    I am encouraged by all of the work going into LENR. But I have to say that Rossi just “jumped the shark” with his claim of direct EMF. This is a most fantastic claim built upon several existing, fantastic claims. The tell of a con man is that, like a genie, they will promise you exactly what you want from your most fantastic fantasy. And here we have it.

    Best Regards

    • Alex

      I’d like to say that is much less fantastic than ECat itself (if it even exists). Even I have always thought about producing electricity direct from reaction like in an MPD generator.