Report: Defkalion GT and MOSE s.r.l. Forming Joint Venture

A report on the Italian web site NextME cites a communique released by Defkalion Green Technologies announcing the formation of a joint venture between DGT and Milan-based MOSE s.r.l.

The article explains that the partnership, to be known as ‘Defkalion Europe’ will be a research and development venture which will focus on developing the Hyperion reactor. According to Defkalion’s announcement, they are able to produce a stable reaction using a plasma discharge mechanism, and can safely produce temperatures of 600 C. They say their product, unlike Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat, does not need recharging every six months.

Defkalion state that they are now ready to enter the market, however they say “this process will not be immediate but will take several years , as it will allow time for the big players in the energy distribution change their assets and strategies in a non-traumatic in a synergistic way to new technology”

The above information was obtained from a Google translation of the original Italian.

  • Fibb

    Ahhh… booo… I want to see the big players crap their drawers.

    • Miles

      +1. Too many years we have been financial screwed over by the big players & governments. When will this financial abuse & financial controlling end.

      • Gerrit

        Never, they’ll find other ways.

  • captain

    quoted from italian:

    >… Il reattore non richiede ricarica per sei mesi di funzionamento continuo…<

    it sounds to me as …the reactor doesn't need to be recharged for a period of six months of continuous operation… BUT it should be refueled after that specific time limit, that is the same as for Rossi's E-Cat.

    To be noted that MOSES srl (Moses Ltd) is an italian firm located in Milan.

    I'm asking why DGT has still the need to put his R&D center in Italy: and what about their location in Canada?

    • Paolo

      yes….it’s correct.

    • Dr Bruce Williams

      I can confirm that your translation from the Italian is correct.

    • Gerrit

      Let’s see how the naysayers will classify MOSES srl, whether they are part of the scam or they have been scammed ?

    • QC-JYM

      Why many location? Simple. Certification process is different from one place to the other. Canadian lab will cover the north-american side (CSA and UL) whille the Italian lab will cover the European side (CE). SO, like Rossi, they will have to look for a partner in Asia, South-America and non-European Union country to cover those area.


  • Martin

    “this process will not be immediate but will take several years , as it will allow time for the big players in the energy distribution change their assets and strategies in a non-traumatic in a synergistic way to new technology”

    That’s a handy mechanism when you just can’t see the way forward

    • daniel maris

      Yep, such statements – in the absence of credible demonstrations – should be treated with the derision they deserve.

      • How do you estimate Nelson report…
        Ok it is not great, but between the result, and more important the notice that DGT is cooperative (unlike Rossi was)…

        It is hard for me to understand how people hearing the rossi says every day, can be upset by DGT…
        Even criticizing rossi they are soft, compared to what Rossi says…

        note that yes, unlike Rossi, they have an independent report…
        the one of Nelson, that nelson recognized in front of Gibbs… not much, but enough to say that it is controlled LENR.
        Their justification for the modest COP, low temperature because liquid water, is logic…

  • georgehants

    Pekka, or could somebody tell me are we talking true Dogma blowing negative temperatures or as Mr Rossi seems to think that is still impossible.
    Atoms Reach Record Temperature, Colder than Absolute Zero

    • Omega Z


      I read that a week or so ago.
      Seems it was a super tiny fraction difference like couple millionths or whatever.
      Absolute Zero may have been redefined.

      My thoughts at the time was it may just be a refinement as technology has advanced for finer measurement. But that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong. I sometimes have trouble with their techno babble.

      Technically speaking tho, Nothing Can be colder then Absolute Zero.

      • georgehants

        Omega, yes, very interesting, but as usual finding if it is being excepted, checked or debunked is not so easy.

    • If one defines temperature from how many particles are in lower and higher energy states, then negative temperature (population inversion as used in lasers) can exist at least transiently. How much sense it makes to define temperature in that way is a question that could be debated. Temperature is a somewhat less fundamental quantity than for example energy or entropy and its definition is not quite self-evident in some situations. If this were a science quiz, Rossi would be wrong, but in the engineering sense his suspicion about such concept is probably not too far off the mark.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Isn’t the company called MOSE, not MOSES?

    BTW, here there’s an interview with Luca Gamberale, chief science officier of Defkalion Europe (in Italian):

  • Jonas

    The time for DIY solutions simply must come now, as the big players cannot be trusted. We need to find a way in which to distribute the technology (if working) to the general fast and easy (in kits you assemble yourself). I’ve said this before, but it seems increasingly important, if we are ever to see this technology in our homes.

    • PeterRoe

      If ‘we’ had the technology we’d be free to do with what we want. Unfortunately…

  • Gerrit

    I was wondering what’s happening over at Missouri University with the 5.5 million funding. We heard only about Mark Prelas resuming his 20 year old study. Now I found another hint at the research from a University page, mentioning other scientists. I thought it would be interesting to share with you.

    I assume that University of Missouri will have a lot to present at the upcoming ICCF-18

    • GreenWin

      Thanks Gerrit. While the shills and t-rolls search for negative spin, qualified scientists are busy researching LENR, in well equipped laboratory settings:

      Shubhra Gangopadhyay is a C.W. LaPierre Endowed Chair Professor in the Electrical and Computer Engineering Department at the University of Missouri as well as co-director of the MU International Center for Nano/Micro Systems and Nanotechnology,

      John Gahl is a C.W. LaPierre Professor in the Electrical and Computer Engineering Department at the University of Missouri. He is the director of the Material Science Program at the University of Missouri Research Reactor Center, the largest university-based research reactor in the United States. He is a licensed professional engineer in Missouri.

      University of Missouri Associate Professor Scott Kovaleski was appointed as interim chairman of the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, effective Jan. 1, 2013.Kovaleski’s own research involves nuclear, plasma and beam science. He is currently working on a piezoelectric miniature, low-radiation X-ray device.

    • Jim

      Good to see that UM is keeping the topic fresh

  • abc

    Basically, Defkalion already have a good deal down in Canada I suppose with all their benefits and the money they have already been given. (????) What happened to moving back to Greece to help out our brothers?

    How will their product be able to compete if it wont hit the market in several years?

    Would the energy gigants of this world treat Defkalion with the same respect if the situation was to other way around?

    Who took this decision?

    Have not CF/LENR technology been suppressed for 24 years? It is really appropriate to continue suppressing it?

    We would not have iPads or iPhones if Apple would follow the same way or reasoning!
    Because these products have also been very disruptive and thousands have lost their jobs.

    This is the biggest contradictory I have ever seen:
    “Defkalion state that they are now ready to enter the market, however they say “this process will not be immediate but will take several years , as it will allow time for the big players in the energy distribution change their assets and strategies in a non-traumatic in a synergistic way to new technology”

    Maybe more concern should be directed towards these millions of people of will freeze, starve and poison themselves on dirty drinking water instead of showing pity to the energy conglomerates.

    What is this? The Stockholm Syndrome?


    There is something very fishy going on here….
    Or am I missing something?

    • Pweet

      Well to start with,.. you missed the July 2012 demonstration of the Hyperion reactor.
      We all did.

  • mikeS_50

    Defkalion once again says it will take them several YEARS, enough time to wait for a ROSSI eCat and find out what it is that they missed, I would not count on Defkalion for anything other than self promotion for investment.

    • daniel maris

      Seems nonsense to me. If you have the technology which delivers a high COP, this shouldn’t be years away – well not unless they demonstrate it.

      • captain

        Is a nonsense to have an additional R&D center in Milano, Italy.
        Unless so far DGT doesn’t have the due technology to put on public test at least one prototype really operational.

        They could have good intentions, smart ideas, but to have an operational prototype, running for months continuously is a totally different achievement. And even with a COP 6 it would be acceptable.

        IMO Defkalion is missing really something, and hopes to get it in Italy. Sooner or later.

        • I am not certain if AR’s (negative) viewpoint on DGT is the truth, but it seems not inconsistent with these facts.

          • Ged

            Does seem like DGT has advanced passed those views.

          • captain

            Supposing DGT do have the knowledge (‘stolen’) of the elements inside Rossi’s e-cat, they are aware of the fact that if they use the same ignition driver ‘invented’ by Rossi, they will be indicted for that.

            So, while Defkalion has proposed the plasma to drive their reactor, it seems that the road to carry out that job is very long.
            Hence Defkalion is confident to find a solution in Italy, IMHO.

            In some way Rossi is sincere when saying that Defkalion has no reactor ready and available for the market: at least so far, I think. For the future, who knows?

          • PeterRoe

            I agree that DGT probably stole most of Rossi’s IP of the time (his system probably didn’t work too well then, either) and then deliberately set out to find another way to do the same job, in order to avoid litigation, and possibly to avoid problems with AR’s methods.

            I also doubt that they currently have a marketable product, but I think they are probably close enough to be taken seriously by both possible partners/investors, and by those determined to ensure that CF technology does not escape into the wild (US military and energy cartels).

      • PeterRoe

        We keep coming back to this idea that anyone with a working CF technology somehow needs to prove it to all and sundry. They don’t – what possible commercial advantage would there be in doing so?.

        As Rossi keeps saying, the only criterion that makes any commercial sense is to get a working device to the market. The absence of ‘public demonstrations’ doesn’t mean a thing, either way.

        • PersonFromPorlock

          what possible commercial advantage would there be in doing so?

          Well, investors would climb over each other waving money to get in on the ground floor, for one thing. That would speed up getting a unit to market and provide a cushion against being under-capitalized, which can sink even the best invention.

          Really, the last few years of ECW can be summed up in the old joke “If we had ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.”

          • PeterRoe

            There has already been sufficient publicity for DGT, plus the favourable report by Nelson, and they are almost certainly well supplied with prospective partners or investors.

            In any case a public demo would almost certainly be met with the usual hail of denial and ridicule from naysayers that (as intended) would damage their credibility. Both Rossi and DGT now appear to have learned these lessons – others don’t seem to have made the same mistakes in the first place.

          • Pweet

            Pete, nothing is damaging Rossi and Defkalion more than the complete failure of both of these to provide convincing proof that they have something, anything, which lives up their claims.
            Worse than that, it is now damaging the whole field of LENR.
            One single verification by a reputable authority will immediately silence 90% of the critics.
            Multiple verifications would silence 99.9% and you need not worry about the rest.
            You can hardly blame the “naysayers” for stating what they consider is blindingly obvious.

          • PeterRoe

            Damaging what? Their credibility among the handful of blog readers who are aware of their stories? Rossi, DGT et al. are commercial enterprises. They don’t care what we think, or for that matter what ‘the critics’ (you mean shills and other naysayers of course) think or say, except perhaps when it becomes legally actionable.

            The ‘whole field of LENR’ will continue unfazed and undamaged by the lack of any spectacular ‘demos’. The objectives of researchers are not linked to the activities of commercial developers, and they have their own proofs of principle.

            And I don’t blame the ‘naysayers’ at all – some of them have to earn a crust, the rest will just turn out to be right or wrong, with zero consequences, just like those who are presently more optimistic. Essentially it’s all just noise that will not affect developments either way.

    • Pweet

      ^ @mikeS_50 on January 16, 2013 at 12:27 pm

      If that’s the case I think they should have announced an indefinite wait. I can’t see anything coming from that direction in the next two years.
      Oh well. I suppose it gives them another two years to “kick the can down the road”.
      Making promises with a two year timeline is actually a more realistic strategy to keep the adoring masses in line. It’s silly to make lots of short term promises that you can’t keep. Stick to long term promises that you can’t keep because it gives you longer to make up reasons why they cant be delivered on. In fact after two years, most people cant even remember what the promises were.

      • GreenWin

        I know I find it hard to remember the 1958 promise of “unlimited, clean energy” from hot fusion! But then, what’s 55 years… compared to 2.

        • Pweet

          Well we got the unlimited energy only it wasn’t quite as clean as we had hoped for.
          Also the energy derived from fusion reactions seems to still be only available in bulk wholesale quantities and therefore not much use to the average person. Well, any person really, unless you want to blow another country off the planet.

  • Pweet

    That’s strange. I thought they had the Hyperion reactor all sorted out and ready for demonstration by last July, 2012.
    I seem to have missed that demonstraton.
    Now comes the announcement that they are ready to enter the market.
    Well not quite. They say it wont be immediate. They say it will take several years.
    And apparently that’s so as not to unduly inconvenience the big energy producers.

    Do they really expect us to believe that they could care less about the financial well being of the big energy producers?
    Give me a break.
    They can now consider my intelligence as being suitably insulted.

  • HeS

    Daniel De Caluwe wrote about 1GW plant:

    “2. But as your 1MWth plants have 100 10kWth units each, this makes 256400 (39% thermal-to-electrical efficiency) to 303000 (33% thermal-to-electrical efficiency) 10kWth units, that need to be refueled two times a year each, so that makes: 1404 (39% thermal-to-electrical efficiency) to 1659 (33% thermal-to-electrical efficiency) replacements of fuel each day!.”

    This is good news. Hot-Cat is not very suitable for use in large power plants. It can be used only in small to medium, local power plants.
    This will force the decentralization of energy production.

    • Yes, the only reason nuclear plants are big are that safety arrangements around them have a high cost per unit which makes small units uneconomical. Building a 1 GW E-cat plant wouldn’t make much sense since it’s cheaper and easier to distribute them to smaller 10-100 MW scale, say. It might only make sense as a rather temporary solution to retrofit an existing nuclear plant (e.g. one which was built but never started), to use some of the existing infrastructure at least the power transmission lines.

    • PeterRoe

      If someone was determined to use hot cat reactors in large generating plants (e.g., to replace a nuclear fission core as Pekka suggests), I’m sure that there would be an engineering solution that would allow this.

      Assuming the individual reactors can’t simply be increased in size (my guess is that they will be) the obvious approach is to build multiple-core units (say 50 units in each, mounted ‘end to end’) which themselves are withdrawn and replaced robotically in programmed sequences. Given Daniel De Caluwe’s figure, that might mean about 30 multiple units requiring routine replacement each day, plus the occasional failed unit.

      All that would be needed would be to build in sufficient redundancy to allow for a small percentage of multiple units being ‘down’ for replacement at any given time.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        I would agree with Peter. I think the hot cats could be bigger, but according to Rossi there is some danger involved in doing that.
        I would guess that if you go for bigger hot cats and higher COP, you get better efficiency and probably less fuel consumption, but also more radiation. In a nuclear reactor that should not be much of a problem as that environment should be shielded already.

        You could and indeed should automate the fuel replacement process, so the number of replacements should not be a problem at all.

        Also, you would start to think in 1MW unit’s and not thousands of individual 10KW units. I imagine the core of a reactor would be a certain number of 10KW units grouped into a 1MW unit. A cylinder with 100 10KW units would do and would not be bigger than 1 meter in diameter. (Wasn’t that idea discussed on this site once?)

        Once a 1MW unit dips under a certain efficiency threshold, you replace the 1MW unit with another spare one and recycle the old 1MW unit which can then be used to replace another below threshold unit.

        • About radiation, all lab experiment seems to have noticed that radiation is weak, around and below background at most, and that there is less radiation when there is heat.

          radiation seems to be like smoke, caused by non optimal reaction.

          note that i expect since long, that as soon as LENR get quite mainstream, the fearmonger and other priest of doom will frighten the mummy with fear of devilish radiation (hopefully the linear law no threshold just get buried officially for radiation, while it was clear since long , before F&P). they will be supported by big energy, so they can capture the business meanwhile and make it expensive with useless safety measures…

          modern lobbies love useless safety, because it increase cost, thus the margin.
          ideology lobbies love useless safety measure too, because it make people afraid, because fear make people surrender their freedom easily.

          we will have to fight hard to avoid LENR being blocked by priest and big business.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Hi Alain,

            When you up the COP too high, the reaction creates neutrons. It’s what Storms expects with hydrogen – nickel reactions, as opposed to deuterium – nickel/paladium reactions. I have no idea if this is caused by an non optimal reaction, but Rossi also hints that a high COP (200 and higher) is dangerous. Essentially LENR is a reaction of the weak force (radiation) as opposed to hot fusion which is a reaction of the strong force, so radiation is definately involved. At low power there is mostly gamma radiation which is then converted by the reactor wall into heat, but at higher COP other radiation is created. This is why Rossi has shielded his reactors with lead. At least this is how I understand this. Maybe someone else can shine some more light on this.

            Major plus point for LENR is that the radiation is short lived and therefore much more manageable.

            I do agree that the radiation part should not be misused by the opposition forces out there.

            I also do wonder what the limit on LENR reactions is or how high a COP you can get. Any thoughts?

          • HeS

            @:”At low power there is mostly gamma radiation which is then converted by the reactor wall into heat, but at higher COP other radiation is created.”

            If the reactor emits gamma rays, this is not good news. Shield do not help much because it becomes radioactive, and as such must be disposed of (radioactive waste).

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            It may be that the gamma radiation is converted in the nickel lattice to heat already, not the reactor wall. Not sure here. We need some expert opinion on this. Anybody care to speculate?

          • all experience with LENr show very few gamma or neutrons, and mostly when not heating… heat and gamma seems to be exclusives branches.

            Rossi made a redhearing with his lead shield… today it is tungsten tube simply. for defkalion it is steel wal… defkalion have noticed some gamma but very soft, from 30 to 500keV,and not much.

            forget about what says Rossi… he have a reactor but no credibility.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            This is meant as a reply on your post above because I can’t reply on a post nested that deep.

            I did a bit of research and indeed mostly no gamma radiation is detected at the current low intensity LENR reactions, so you are right there. Didn’t know that so thanks for pointing that out.

            On the high COP stuff I’m now not sure what kind of radiation is happening there or if it is different from the low ecat reactor.

            If what you say is true and even the HOT Cat does not need shielding, the ecat is even more astonishing than I thought.

            @Admin: this would be a most interesting topic for a post. What do we think is happening inside the ecat and does it behave different in a high COP configuration?

            Other questions I have:
            What is the limit on LENR reactions is and how high a COP can you get?
            Why not build a really really big e-cat modules with a couple of kilo’s of nickel powder in it and let it run? Should have a lot of power, but instead we see small modules all over the place. Is there some sort of size limit on LENR?

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Hi Alain,

          When you up the COP too high, the reaction creates neutrons. It’s what Edmund Storms expects with hydrogen – nickel reactions, as opposed to deuterium – nickel/paladium reactions. I have no idea if this is caused by an non optimal reaction, but Rossi also hints that a high COP (200 and higher) is dangerous. Essentially LENR is a reaction of the weak force (radiation) as opposed to hot fusion which is a reaction of the strong force, so radiation is definately involved. At low power there is mostly gamma radiation which is then converted by the reactor wall into heat, but at higher COP other radiation is created. This is why Rossi has shielded his reactors with lead. At least this is how I understand this. Maybe someone else can shine some more light on this. I may have this all wrong.

          Major plus point for LENR is that the radiation is short lived and therefore much, much more manageable.

          I do agree that the radiation part should not be misused by the opposition forces out there.

          I also do wonder what the limit on LENR reactions is and how high a COP you can get.

          And the other thing is: Why not build a really big e-cat module with a couple of kilo’s of nickel and let it run. Should have a lot of power, but instead we see small modules all over the place.

          Any thoughts?

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            The post above was marked for deletion and in moderation, but it somehow got through anyway. Please ignore

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I would not trust anything Defkalion says: The quote below is from the 11/29/2011 article in Ny Teknik written by Mats Lewan. This proves to me whatever Defkalion has it was stolen from Rossi.

    The above article quotes Alexandros Xanthoulis, President of Defkalion:

    “- Let’s say I have Rossi’s formula, but I do not say it officially. My scientists have found a way to accomplish it. They need three months. I know what is in the reactor. I know everything. It was done with spectroscopy at Siena University of Padova (…) They tested the reactor without [Rossi] knew what they were doing, he continued.”

    • GreenWin

      A statement that shall reverberate down the halls of many a courthouse. Unless a licensing arrangement settles all.

  • Andre Blum

    In a reply to the previous post, user BigWilly wrote:

    “I am utterly flabbergasted that GeorgeH and Daniele Passi have both dropped Rossi”

    I have missed that news about Daniele Passerini. Does somebody have a pointer? Does Passerini give a reason?

    • admin

      Hi Andre, Daniele gives a long post on giving his reasons. Among other things he says,

      “I wrote long ago that the expiration of two years from January 14, 2011, I would have pulled the oars in the absence of official announcements and indubitable reality on E-Cat, which – by the way – I still do not have doubts, not on the basis of my desires (as the skeptics want to believe), but based on what I am told by several people absolutely worthy of respect and trust in direct contact with our engineer. Wait patiently that doubts can be dispelled even the whole world and come back to hoist the sails of a new post will come when the news we have been waiting for two years.” (google translated)

    • RenzoB

      as Passerini explained he hasn’t dropped Rossi at all, he quits the blog for a while because it’s too time consuming with his current personal issues, job and new family. He will write again as soon as the report gets published.

      By the way the post by BigWilly was clearly ironic or trolling

      • Bigwilly

        Hi Sirs,

        It was a misunderstanding? Even Georgehants? His post seemed to tell me that after some inflection he has decided the last few years from Rossi have been a waste of time but perhaps my reading comprehension is poor.

        Ironic and/or trolling? I don’t think so. Some may not subscribe to my extended deadline but I agree with many on this site that hot fusion has failed to take shape after so many years so that it is only fair we give prospective cold fusion technologies the same.


        • I think that Georgehants meant that discussing if Rossi (or anything else) is true or untrue is a waste of time unless one can bring in new facts or points of view into the discussion.

          • georgehants

            Thank you Pekka.

    • RenzoB

      please forgive me but who is GeorgeH ?

      • georgehants, but I guess it was a misunderstanding as well.

        • RenzoB

          The only people who could worry me by dropping Rossi, are prof. Levi, prof. Focardi, prof. Stremmenos, Daniele Passerini, Fioravanti/Cures and all the others who have personally tested the Ecat for some time or have access to reserved informations. Untill now all of them have been very supportive.

    • Andre Blum

      Thanks Frank, Renzo, BigWilly, Pekka, for clearing this up!

  • Visitor

    The line:
    “it will allow time for the big players in the energy distribution change their assets and strategies in a non-traumatic in a synergistic way to new technology”

    is very similar to this one, said by a company named NRGLab who claims to have a low-cost energy Cat:

    “The company will be introducing generators (SH boxes) onto the market step-by-step, so that Investors of crude oil and natural gas sectors have enough time for reinvestment.”

    Intersting… Game Changer technology companies are thinking of preventing economy collapse when rollout…

    • Hugo

      I don’t buy that. Problem is getting anybody to accept it + getting it to market over all the hurdles such a device will face after Chernobyl and Fukujima. To me this sounds like a bad excuse for not having anything to show.

    • Fibb

      It’s not something they can prevent. The collapse is coming. But they are covering their ass with some lip service/warnings.

      The balance sheets of some of the biggest companies on the planet is about to take a massive hit. Virtually overnight.

      • Haven’t we learned yet that nothing is going to happen overnight? It’s not going to be like the Internet. More like the automobile. People won’t go gaga over a new design for water heaters. It’s the off-the-grid electricity generation that everyone wants.

        • PeterRoe

          Or at least they will do… when they finally get to hear that it may soon be possible.

  • Drago Fredda

    I’ve missed being on this site for the last several days. Been recovering from a bad case of the flu. Fortunately, I had some friends around to take me to the ER when I collapsed from Dehydration. Nothing is more important than having good family and friends. I think that is why I love this site. I like all the insight on Cold Fusion from all the users of this site. Even the ones who don’t believe, it still makes you think. I understand a lot about what is said, but I can always count on someone here to break it down even further for me to get the harder points. Thank you all for that. I’m very excited and feel like were are close to that critical event. Rossi is lying or he is telling the truth. I believe the latter.
    Anyway it feel good to be back. Hope all of your are in good health and avoiding that nasty flu bug. I’m feeling much better.

    • admin

      Hi Drago, sorry to hear about you being so sick and I’m glad you are on the mend. They say the flu is especially bad this year — they are calling it an epidemic here in the US.

      I agree with you about family and friends!

      • Drago Fredda

        Thanks Frank! Keep up the good work.

  • Jonas

    Bovine excrement, basically. Except for whatever legalities one will have to work through, if I have a working prototype, even if built ‘by hand’, delivering excess heat – safely – for months, I need only build another one, by hand if necessary, and sell it, and voila! I’m on the market! Sell ten of them, and you’ll have enough money to buy some machinery to build a hundred a.s.o. Or simply let someone already with machinery build you a thousand ones – you don’t have to have your own factory – why would you? – on commission (there will be no shortage of interested buyers).

  • jacob

    lets face it people,the opportunity for a LENR revolution is now over, it will rather be an evolution and still in the end will end up in the hands of the rich, to get richer who will timely integrate it into their grit since it will be much more profitable than crude,fission ,wind and solar,but in the end there are many dozen ways to produce energy from the magnetic ether all around us ,for those who can not imagine that,in their eyes I am simply a quack,but frankly I could not care less.
    I wish all great success

    • Jonas

      At least such a revolution will not come from Rossi or Defkalion. Hopefully Big Oil will not have time to sink their claws into Brillouion, the NANOR, Celini, Pirelli or some of the other smaller projects, but the longer we wait the greater that risk grows…

      But I don’t think there’s much doubt anymore that LENR, or whichever name one uses, is a fact. What Rossi et al has claimed to do, though, is to harness this power to greater extent than anyone else has, but I don’t think it could be that hard to do, once someone else also starts to incorporate e.g. radio or audio frequency controls in their experiments. That said, I would be just as happy with a Hydrobetatron cutting my heating bill in half (which is what they claim to do – double the heat out, or more). ANY device that’ll make warming my house cheaper, if only buy a fraction, is of interest to me, and then one can start fine tuning it to give even more excess power. What we need, desperately, is the technology in our homes now!

  • If Rossi and DGT both ignore the domestic market and delay
    plans for consumer produced energy market the void could be
    filled by other competition.

  • Kim G Patterson

    We are now longer in debate about the reality of LENR.

    Now they have to figure out how to put a meter on it. (i.e. make money)

    Here is the problem:

    The gangsters want to make money, and can’t figure out how
    to do it with out it being reversed engineered and then place
    to the the virtual machine shop called the internet.

    Andrea Rossie’s Hot Cat is not that difficult to arrange
    Its has no moving parts and a secret ingredient.

    This is what the problem is to date. They would immediately
    loose control.

    Boy that must be frustrating!

    Cause I guarantee that that truly is the hold up at this time.


    • If energy cannot be meaningfully taxed, the government can always tax real estate. Land cannot avoid taxation by moving offshore.

      • Gordon Docherty

        Fresh air tax – oh, wait, we already have that – it’s called the Carbon Tax 🙂

  • Fibb

    The more I think about this:

    “this process will not be immediate but will take several years , as it will allow time for the big players in the energy distribution change their assets and strategies in a non-traumatic in a synergistic way to new technology”

    the madder I get!

    • Fibb

      I would like anyone with some pull with Defkalion’s crew to urge them to clarify and expand on this “several years” BS.

      • Ivan Mohorovicic
        • Fibb

          well I still don’t buy it on first read. we need this technology and we need it now. As I told Rossi, LENR commercializers need to get progressive leaders/politicians on side and accelerate the coming to market timeline, not delay it.

      • daniel maris

        Yes, especially since a year or so ago they were claiming to have a working machine and actually showed it in operation to Sterling Allan I think it was (he took photos or video I believe).

        • AlainCo

          there is no incoherence in what they say.

          read their story

          and add the recent story with Nelson testing, problem of reliability with sparkplug, moving to vancouver… partnership with mose SRL…

          They planned to work with rossi, but rossi break promiss of canadian market, and steal some ideas…
          they break in june, and try to develope their own reactor, convinced that it can work.

          They look for solution like rossi, using heat, gas permeation,
          It worked in nov 2011 but it does not work reliably. they change method, an their reactor called R4 was the first to use ion/plasma.

          they file patent, change materials, met endurance problems, solve them…
          meanwhile they ask for testers… it is more complex than what they imagine (what a surprise !)…

          If there are some critics to send it is that they were too optimistic… classic for a startup.

          the standard story for any startup is to imagine that it will be on the marker in 6 month, met a pile of problems, and finally sell a reduced version after 5 years.

    • Linda

      Anyone ready to discuss an international “X Prize” for an Open Source LENR solution? Cos that’s what I’ve been driving at.

  • Linda

    We have to face facts… there is not going to be any “Free Energy Revolution”. Rossi and Defkalion, assuming they having anything at all, are Capitalists interested only in making money.

    We can all go straight to hell with our dreams of FREE energy. It isn’t going to happen, unless it’s Open Sourced.

    • Kim G Patterson

      The whole world is run by gangsters.

      Its a boys club.

      If they can’t turn it into money its


    • Cliff Bradley


      You had a dream of FREE energy? Was that like my dream of a free car and free housing and maybe free education? Actually, that’s a nightmare. Look at any time anything is offered for free and the price is ALWAYS too high. Read the book Agenda 21 in which everything is free.

      You could probably benefit from some good economics courses, if you can find them. The fact is that the profit motive drives people to offer better service at a better price more often than not.

      You seem to have gotten your economic education from movies and TV in which the business owner is protrayed as evil. Think about this. How much food would the farmer produce if he had to sell it at cost? I assume you have a computer. Was the P.C. developed for free or was it sold at a profit so the company could plow those profits back into improving the products. If you’re old enough to remember back to 1981 or so when P.C.s were invented, think about the P.C.s we had then and compare them to what you’re using now. Profit makes for progress.

      Rossi is going to produce his e-cats for profit and they will profit the entire world along with him.

      • Linda

        “and they will profit the entire world.”

        No, sorry. The profits will trickle up, not down, and they will eventually find their way to the 100 richest individuals in the world, who alone, by themselves have over $1.9 TRILLION IN PERSONAL WEALTH.

        That is a reality, not an apples and PCs analogy. Again, sorry, but everything you learned in grade school about the inherent fairness of Capitalism is wrong.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Linda said, “Rossi and Defkalion, assuming they having anything at all, are Capitalists interested only in making money.”

      You better hope they are capitalists. If anything happens in this world, it’s because capitalism made it happen.

      • Fibb

        capitalism sucks ass without a heavy dose of socialism. but let’s not debate that too much here.

      • Linda

        China is the most ruthless Capitalist nation on earth, second only to the United States.

        Even so, that article you cite is a neo-liberal fabrication… Hundreds of Google links all point to the exact same text.

        Yes, and what else has Capitalism made? 100 million casualties and counting from this Global Recession. You can’t tell me all of those suicides and nouveau-homeless were all pathetic slackers.

        Capitalism is killing us. The eCat could spell the eventual end of Capitalism. Humanity needs the eCat like it needs its next breath.

        • Cliff Bradley


          What exactly is your agenda? You seem to be spending a whole lot of time on communist conspiracy theory sites. Don’t you work or something?

          • PeterRoe

            This subject area is off-topic, but I for one would agree with Linda that todays ‘bankster’ dominated world kleptocracy is wrecking the lives of millions, for the obscene benefit of the ‘elites’.

            We have watched a real conspiracy in action over the last couple of years, with the total non-reporting of developments in cold fusion, including academic ones such as Hagelsteins ‘Nanor’.

            Conspiracies exist, and it seems reasonable that people should explore and reveal them using the internet, as no other venues remain open to the average person. I wonder where the word ‘communist’ enters into this – or do you think that anyone who questions the status quo must be one?

    • Pweet

      Linda, the whole problenm lies in your first assumption, that “they have anything at all”.
      The fact is, so far they have nothing. That is the whole problem. It always has been.
      I do believe if they had something even a little bit close to what they claimed then they probably would have gone a long way towards living up to their promises of public demonstrations and deliveries.

      I also think that they really did believe that they could get something working by the due dates but these beliefs were based more on wishful thinking rather than reality.

      • PeterRoe

        So you missed/are ignoring/discount NASA scientist Michael Nelson’s positive report on their progress up to March of last year then?

        • AlainCo

          Note that this report should habe make more noise than Hiroshima in a rational world…
          It have been confirmed by critical Gibbs, and the Nelson critical history with Rossi, add to the credibility…

          this is the exact proof that NO REPORT CAN CONVINCE!

          any business man know that DGT behavior as reported by nelson is the best evidence, that DGT know their reactor works well.

          the opposite behavior by Rossi makes Nelson furious and Krivit very skeptical.

          yet now the discussion among the skeptiks don’t change , like the one at SciAm/APS…
          they never learn from facts.

          • PeterRoe

            At some point you have to wonder whether ‘skeptics’ are unaware of certain critical information or are simply ignoring it in order to further an agenda.

            When the pattern is consistently repeated this tends to eliminate the first possibility.

          • AlainCo

            It is probably not conscious, yet it is for good reasons like many things seen in psychiatric hospital.

            I have the theory:
            and the model:

            works well for many of the recent scandal, like internet bubble, subprimes, and many other scientific scandal that I won’t cite here…

          • PeterRoe

            Certainly there is not much evidence of consciousness in the endless repetition of ‘It’s a sc*m, they’ve got nothing, move along there’ which seems to be about all the shills have left to say.

  • Sandy

    “Defkalion state that they are now ready to enter the market, however they say ‘this process will not be immediate but will take several years…”

    Does this mean that Defkalion will NOT publicly display a working LENR reactor for “several years”? If that is their plan then I suspect that Defkalion does not have a working LENR reactor and they are just jerking us around, just like the folks who claim to have a working Papp engine have been jerking us around and around and around.

    It’s enough to make you dizzy and angry!

    • That has been AR’s opinion about DGT all the time, anyway. And he wasn’t amused. If that is the truth or not about DGT is another question. Those involved (such as AR) know it best, but some things might be unclear even to them.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    What if Henry Ford had said: “I think I’ll delay the Model T production line because I don’t want to upset the horse industry”. That’s nuts! Similarly, no one with a source of cheap, none-polluting energy should spend one second worrying about the fate of the oil barons and their polluting fluids. They already have all the wealth they need, and they might consider using some of it to participate in LENR breakthough and progress. LENR will cause a temporary downward shift in an old part of the econmic sector, but that will be quickly sorted and the whole of humanity, right down to the poorest wanderer, will be quickly lifted into a much better and richer life. Now that the LENR secret is out, nothing on earth can stop it, or the transformation in human history that will accompany it. So if anyone really has the royal juice needed to make it happen more quickly, it would be crazy and wrong to delay things a minute longer than necessary. So DGT, if you really have something, clearly show it and get on with your job! ( Same to you Rossi! By the way, I’m anxiously looking forward to next month’s revelation of the results independent Hot Cat test. They must come,if they exist, because why would anyone hestitate to announce or try to conceal a breakthough only slightly less important than the second coming?)

    • Fibb

      very well said. thank you

  • Kim G Patterson

    Today Energy is Slavery.

    Tomorrow energy will be life.

    If I had a device that produced free energy, would I not sell
    this energy to the power company to receive a credit of $100.

    Now as free energy devices come on line, with everyone pumping
    free energy into they grid, would we not be swimming in a sea
    of energy in short order?

    I mean everywhere! Unlimited Energy!

    I would build a green house. Lights, Fans, Controlled Temperatures.


    Darn it my bearings wore out in my fan. Hey I wonder if my neighbor
    would fix my fan if I gave him a month supply of vegetables.

    Hey Food = Money and Energy.

    After about 100 years… Energy concepts would replace money and
    economies. People please use your noodle and realize what we would
    be creating with unlimited energy and life.

    I would say that currently Energy is Money/Economy.

    Do you honestly believe that a race of beings that has
    the ability to traverse light years would not also
    have access to free energy, or did they just come here
    to make change for a twenty.

    We would not have to have a gangster operations 24/7. We could actually get some clarity and truth once in a while.

    Have you ever noticed how good gangsters are at deception.

    Actually I think of them as Men/Bullies that never grew up.
    They love the boys club.

    But what they do best is protect their gold/energy.


  • Zaghlool

    Well, I don’t believe articles on the paper – I want to see a practical working device.

  • James Smithurst

    Now I know it’s a scam. Every few weeks when I look for updates on the subject, I read next month, in a couple of months for sure, early next year and now in two years plus. Yes, it’s ready, but we want to be nice to the energy giants to give them time to adjust bla bla bla. Sorry, no more waiting for me. I’m getting a bio-methane plant in my back yard and will shovel pig poo to convert to electricity.

  • Mike MacDonald

    What is so very nice is that the big energy companies are being given time to hide their profits !

    “as it will allow time for the big players in the energy distribution change their assets and strategies in a non-traumatic in a synergistic way ”

    Come on ! Have you ever heard such rubbish!

    Good Guys in Business OH Yeah !

  • From recent comments at JONP we learn that the 3rd party testing team is European rather than US and that it contains also sceptical scientists. (Perhaps British, if they are eurosceptic:-)). We also learn that AR has been reading Sean Carroll’s book about Higgs boson for general interest. Sean Carroll, incidentally, is an outspoken atheist and married with Jennifer Ouellette. It’s a small world. Maybe they had sent the book to AR as a gift.

    • georgehants

      Pekka, in with his reading of hard physics I hope he is absorbing some Jung and Sheldrake for balance.

  • georgehants

    This I think can be rightly, fairly and understandably summed up as saying as with Cold Fusion.

    Science does not have an answer.
    Why be afraid to admit it, almost nothing of reality is understood, why try to make out they have all the answers.
    The joy of science is to confront the mysterious and unknown, revel in discovery, celebrate any advance.

    • Gerrit

      great photo 🙂

    • Gerrit

      from the actual paper (

      Question 14: How much is the choice of interpretation a matter of personal philosophical prejudice?

      58% answered “a lot”
      27% answered “a little”

      That’s how scientific consensus works.

      • PeterRoe

        Laser sintering and selective melting. Not quite here I think, but probably available soon. Actually I just wanted to get the bit about bicycle clips in!

        • PeterRoe

          Wrong place – must’ve hit the wrong button. That was meant to be a reply to Owen below (3d printers).

      • GreenWin

        It’s good to know what we don’t know. Progress!

        • PeterRoe

          At least Rumsfeld got one thing right.

  • Gerrit

    2nd try.

    I noticed that the post “Report: Toyota Replicates Mitsubishi LENR Transmutation Experiment” from december 7 is the top result when I search google for “LENR”

    interesting, how did that post end up first ?

  • Owen

    Here’s my comment from the last ECW article that got held up all day in moderation.

    You’re probably just joking and realize it’s not about plastic. The main point is not about 3D printing (although the new ones can fabricate metal parts). The point is how those in power do not and can not have total control over everything. New ideas are coming along faster than anyone can control. Yes, resistance is futile. Good will triumph over evil.

  • Pedro

    “… This process will take several years” comes out of Google-speak. Maybe they are not refering to the period until they sell the first unit, but mearely to the fact that the penetration for LENR to be substantial will take several years.
    Can somebody of our italian friends please re-read the original text from that point of view?

    • Stephen

      I can read that for you…

      They are basically stating that they expect the market penetration of this technology to be slow: they think it will take several years… because of all the existing investments and assets of the key players in the energy business… and because they think it’s better to evolve their business plans in a non-traumatic way. So apparently they are not saying that it will take years to sell the first reactor. On the other hand, they are not planning to ship trucks full of reactors to the supermarkets anytime in the future: they just want to develop this technology in third party’s applications. So you can bet we will hear about more secret or obscure collaborators, more secret products, huger COPs, more features, and of course never ending certifications, etc, etc, etc…

      A futher reason for this behavior might be that this stuff does not work and these people are trying simply to collect money in change of (nuclear?) smoke, but probably this is just me, hopelessly skeptical.

      • Jonas

        It’s just really obvious they don’t have anything. Probably Rossi doesn’t either, and if the “independent 3rd party testing results” of his magical machine is somehow delayed further than february I don’t think we can believe other than it being a big hoax. So in a months time at least these stories will have a concluding end in one way or another. Perhaps we can then, finally, turn our attention elsewhere. This is getting so tired.

        • Stephen

          Yes, but unfortunately a large part of this game seems to just keep the whole thing going… I strongly suspect there will be no clear end and revelation moment.

          If you think of it, if it’s all BS as it seems, it’s not surprising there is not hurry nor interest in getting things clear. Not now, not tomorrow, not next month, not next year: not anytime in the future.

          • Gerrit

            Stephen, in all your wisdom, please reveal to us how they make money by endless delays ?

            Who pays for “keeping the whole thing going”, you ? me ?

            Please explain how the game works, we are desperate to learn you insights.

          • PeterRoe

            Tro11s feeding one another! It has a certain novelty value I suppose.

            Gerrit – Somehow I don’t think that any argument will make much difference. They are not here to contribute to discussions.

          • Stephen

            Oh well, is the “I want to believe” mantra contributing to the discussion any better?

            I just see tons of promises and bla bla and no facts. This does not mean I think LENRs do not exist: it’s quite the opposite. And I don’t have any problem in accepting the existence of a LENR reactor. Very simply, I base my beliefs on facts… I see no facts.

        • Stephen

          Yes, but unfortunately a large part of this game seems to just keep the whole thing going… I don’t think there will be any clear end nor any revelation moment. Not now, not tomorrow, not next month… not anytime in the future.

          • AlainCo

            if you don’t see the blood, look at the sharks.

            Aldo Proia, Xanthoulis, SRI, Duncan, Uni Tsinghua (they answered to tovima article)…

            What is STMicro doing…

            the truth is simply that most skeptics simply don’t accept LENR as a reality, so for them any company that claim having a reactor is a fraud.
            then they realize it is impossible to rationally reject LENr as a reality…
            but they still put abnormal level of proof onto LENr companies…

            the fact is that LENR companies work on a new technologies, based on science discovery…

            it is not noble gaz engine, cavitation fusion, nor magnet superunitary motors…
            it is good old LENR, just reengineered…

            it is not easy, it will take time, as usual.
            Only in hollywood film does the inventor make the job in one month.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            AlainCo said, “What is STMicro doing…?”

            STM was up 4.52% today.

          • Stephen

            Dear AlainCo,

            you are very much mistaken. I am interested in LENRs and I think there must be something real and interesting in them. I would like to see them studied. For instance I looked with interest to experiments on transmutations.

            So be sure I can believe in a reactor if I see a clear proof. However, I won’t believe anything just because I like it. Without clear facts, seeing people behaving like this, making tons of promises and bla bla and delaying everything forever does not surely give me a good impression.


        • Gerrit

          Jonas, nobody is keeping you here !

          Goodbye already 🙂

          • Jonas

            Nice approach to people you have, Gerrit… Perhaps you have already invested. 😛

            I’m saying the Rossi and Defkalion things are getting tired, not the Celani, Pirelli, NANOR things, not yet anyway. And there is a great difference to those projects (well not the NANOR one), in that they are open source, possible for me to replicate. And as such they don’t promise as much as the hoaxers, ‘only’ perhaps a COP of 2 (and as of yet the Celani experiments have yet to prove anything, maybe only a few percents excess heat – which, if proven, is huge still).

          • Gerrit

            explain “the hoaxers” – who are they, in what way do they make the money to keep postponing things ? What is their end game ? When and how will they get the huge financial benefit that will pay back their years of investment in this “hoax” ?

            The only plausible “hoax” explanation I can offer is that Rossi has short sold big oil and is waiting for his “hoax” to influence oil stock market.

            Do you have another explanation or are you just habitually using “hoax” for anything you can’t get your head around ?

            Yes it is a long wait, I agree.

            And yes, luckily other things are happening, otherwise it would have gotten boring a long time ago.

            You cannot shout “hoax” if you cannot even come up with a plausible working mode, but at the same time dismiss all circumstantial evidence that it might very well be true.

          • Jambo

            There are other motivations besides money. I mean, lets’ be frank:

            Rossi and DFG promise products they never deliver, or demonstrate.
            they promise third party testing results to be made public then never, ever deliver that either.
            They promise public displays available for all to see then don’t deliver those.
            Rossi talks of 1 MW “customers” and “contracts” but, somehow, manages to keep every one of them, his so-called “utility” business partners, his 63 employees, his “factory” – everything all completely secret and totally silent?
            Both speak of “university” work and validations but never produce them or name names – ever.

            Come on folks… What’s it gonna take?

            You know, nobody mainstream was talking about LENR until Rossi came out with his claims.

            One possible motivation is that he’s simply doing us all a favor by forcing the research into the open that has, heretofore, been suppressed.

            After all, in all of his unfulfilled statements and promises, Rossi has, in fact, stated his belief that he is doing God’s work – and that can’t come through lies – can it?

          • Gerrit

            do you know you weird you comment is ?

            you claim there are different explanations, but then you talk a long time merely about observations you have made and finally you suppose it could be that Rossi is a good samaritan ?

            LOL, funny

          • Jambo

            I think you may have missed the irony in the last sentence Gerrit.

        • Dickyaesta

          No, no Rossi does have something.

          I am very much in body language it is very clear in the latest video (the swedish one) that he is much more relaxed, compared to the videos in 2011 where he seems to be very paranoid looking over his shoulder keeping as much in check the visitors there. It is really striking the difference, he is happy he sold out and only has to watch the events fold out.Maybe sold out is a bit strong an expression, but it seems he has no worries anymore.

          • Gerrit

            very well observed, also his SNAKES and PUPPETS swearing on his journal-blog seem to have disappeared.

            Rossi is much more relaxed, his answers are much more reasonable lately.

      • daniel maris

        I think a strong degree of scepticism towards Defkalion is highly justified owing to their very odd behaviour.

        Rossi, for all his faults, has a much better record including backing from several eminent professors and some certification. He has also treated his followers with a good deal more respect than ever did Defkalion.

        Defkalion should basically be ignored until they prove they have something.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Defkalion is all smoke and mirrors. Rossi is the real deal. I predict the third party evaluation will confirm much of what Rossi has said about his E-cats, but the skeptics will still not be satisfied.

        • sorry but Nelson is not a clown, and have seen the mirror of Rossi when he was in trouble to stabilize the e-cat, and he felt much more comfortable with defkalion style than with Rossi…
          you should read more data on defkalion. their story is clear, yet not simple and not easy.

          both have a reactor. Defkalion seems more complex, but easier to control.

          only question is about Brillouin an blacklight.

  • Stephen

    Ok and what is this “Mose SRL”? I googled it but I found on obvious website… it’s funny to imagine an obscure company on the verge of revolutionizing the whole energy business. This is the usual blabla-a-lot-of-mysteries-and-no-facts story.

    I like the comment by one of the readers 🙂 … the Hyperion like the Maya apocalypse… it did not happen on 21 Dec 2012, but stay tuned, it’s just delayed, “it will take just more years to happen”. These people will turn LENR (whether it’s real or not) into a cabaret show. Actually, maybe they already have done that: this is not serious.

    • AlainCo

      this company is created by one of the pioneer, luca gamberale…
      it looks like nichenergy, jet energy, and many other LENR startup…
      -> in googlish
      “Luca Gamberale, technical-scientific director of the company “Defkalion Europe” that must develop industrial applications of the new technology Dr. Gamberale, she was a student of the prestigious prof. Giuliano Preparata, a physicist who in 1987 turned his attention to the problems of condensed matter and nuclear physics in the framework of quantum field theory, discovering new coherent solutions of QED systems in dense enough and cold enough. This allowed him to tackle old problems, such as the theory of liquid water, and new, like cold fusion, which appeared to be a completely new now very promising. She also worked on cold fusion with Giuliano Preparata in private practice and then LEDA in the laboratories of cold fusion of Pirelli Labs, the Pirelli Group, until several years ago, it was decided unfortunately its closure. Now he’s the director of technical-scientific society “Defkalion Europe”, based in Milan, which is about to develop industrial applications that use a new technology that promises energy efficiency: economic, inexhaustible and clean. Expectations around the world, and in Italy in particular, with regard to new energy technology branded “Defkalion” are very high, could you tell us what is the status of ‘art of this new energy technology? And what if it differs from current competitor E-Cat? “

  • Linda

    Frank, thanks for getting the comments fixed.

    Now all we need is the like button back 🙂

    • admin

      I was told that it was the like button that caused the last crash — I’m not sure I want to risk that again!

      • georgehants

        That was GreenWin getting to many like’s, he should be banned. Ha

        • GreenWin

          Thanks George! But I think Frank is probably correct. A “like” button is subject to DoS abuse. And as LENR open disclosure becomes imminent – that may be an issue.

      • Ged

        Yeah, we need no like button! Can’t stand the things, honestly.

        • captain

          Yeah, no like buttons at all. BTW I’ve seen more than once that a single click was increasing the total by 2 pts, not 1 only 🙁

  • GreenWin

    Defkalion GT has committed itself publicly to be an advanced player in LENR research. And it is likely they have been visited by certain PTB (thanks Peter) who may have suggested they retard their product launch. And in the interest of economic stability – probably have a convincing argument. Should this unduly delay a necessary innovation? We think not.

    Lest anyone think the global community is not enthused by a revolution in “the atom unexplored” – here is a fascinating paper by very prestigious Russian scientists re nuclear reactions at low energy. Specifically the disappearance of Ti48 (isotopic shift) due to a magnetic monopole theory.

    “We focus on the isotope shift in detail because it proves that low-energy nuclear reactions did, in fact occur.”

    It is safe to say that only the kooks and loons now deny LENR; and as word spreads, a majority of opinion makers begrudgingly accept that inventors like Dr. Rossi, may have leveraged substantial power from the reactions. As the steadfast apostles know, it’s about the Evidence and elevated consciousness.

    From a team led by:
    Georges Lochak, Fondation Louis de Broglie, Paris, France
    Leonid Urutskoev, RECOM, Kurchatov Institute, Moscow, Russia

    • modernsteam

      It’s “Mr. Rossi”, not “Dr. Rossi”.

      There is no evidence publicly displayed. All we have are claims from Rossi and his crew, and mere suppositions from enthusiasts, many of whom later regret, with justified outrage, that they’d probably been deceived.

      LENR is indeed real, but it would appear Rossi is very false … unless it can be proved to me otherwise.Once customers of Rossi come forth, name themselves, and show us their E-Cats operating as claimed … outputting more than the operator inputs, only then can I believe.

      • GreenWin

        “modernsteam??” Well, I suppose some fakirs still gurgle and retch if paid enough to be too lazy to look up what the whole planet already knows:

        “In 1973, Rossi graduated cum laude in Philosophy of Science and Engineering at the University of Milan with a thesis on Albert Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and its interrelationship with Edmund Husserl’s Phenomenology. His advisor was Professor Ludovico Geymonat.”

        Why would anyone care to prove any thing to so shallow a t-roll as modernsteam?

  • Fibb

    “We have five times as much oil and coal and gas on the books as climate scientists think is safe to burn. [snip] Yes, this coal and gas and oil is still technically in the soil. But it’s already economically above ground – it’s figured into share prices, companies are borrowing money against it, nations are basing their budgets on the presumed returns from their patrimony. [snip] – those reserves are their primary asset, the holding that gives their companies their value. It’s why they’ve worked so hard these past years to figure out how to unlock the oil in Canada’s tar sands, or how to drill miles beneath the sea, or how to frack the Appalachians.”


    Now I completely agree with Bill McKibben but I’m not posting these quotes because I want to persuade anyone here about AGW. I’m posting it to show that what Rossi and Defkalion said recently – that “it will be a evolution that takes years” [paraphrasing] – IS COMPLETE BS, no matter what they do and how slow they go.

    Once LENR commercializers sell multiple working units to real bonafide customers, these fossil fuel reserves, that McKibben says are “economically above ground”, will be buried.

    That WILL cause major economic disruption, end of story. The reserves – which is big oil and coal’s “primary asset” – will start winding down immediately on their balance sheets and they’ll want to replace it with something in a big hurry. Ergo, big fossil fuel will be WANT to become big LENR so fast it will make your head spin. And governments all over the world that were dependent on the diminishing revenue will be urging the big players to “catch the new fire.”

    Certainly it WILL take decades for LENR products replace the world’s current energy infrastructure… but there is no way in hell that it won’t be an economic and social revolution in the player’s minds from day 1. Watch for it! It’s either that or LENR products never see the light of day, something Putin, Harper and the Koch’s might make a reality if Rossi and and Defkalion aren’t careful. We ARE talking about trillions of dollars per year here people, y’know…… OK, I’ll stop rambling now. Time to clean my tin foil hat.

    • Kim G Patterson

      I Agree.

      This is what we are waiting for.

      The Decision.

      Can’t have it both ways.

      Shelve or not to Shelve.

      How much morality is there really? in this world.

      They won’t give us a solid answer, we will have to
      infer it.


    • Fibb

      I thought what the hell… and posted this rant on Rossi’s JoNP and he kept all of it except the last couple of lines. I thought that was very good of him to accept any of it considering I said he was wrong about the evolution/revolution question. And he thanked me for my opinion to boot. He seems like a nice fella.

    • PeterRoe

      Fibb – I think it’s pretty self-evident that if/when hard news of the potential of CF emerges that disruption to world energy (and connected – which means everything) will be totally disrupted, even before CF generated energy begins to flow.

      Your analysis must therefore be correct. Either CF will be ‘allowed’ (but strictly controlled) or it will be ruthlessly suppressed, using whatever means that takes. That’s why we should remain very anxious about corporate interests acquiring control of LENR.

      At this point they do have the power to ‘disappear’ the technology, as knowledge of what is happening is still restricted to a relatively few people who have been following the story on the web. If all sources of information ‘dried up’ overnight, there is little that any of us could do about it, and the whole subject would just quietly disappear back into tinfoil hat land.

      Which way things go will depend on the calculations of a tiny group of self-interested individuals, looking at their potential gains and losses in a number of scenarios. One factor you can be absolutely assured will not enter these calculations is the welfare of the people of the planet.

      • GreenWin

        Robert Mockan has “disappeared.” Wonder whose next? I disagree with your last statement Peter. While some parties may not care to consider the welfare of people on the planet… Others will. And have. And LENR/CF is a done deal.

        Personally I am pleased with the LENR/CF introduction.

    • AlainCo

      you are right and wrong.
      The transition will be brutal, like a pH transition, like mobile phone in emerging countries, like Internet for corps… maybe even faster, like financial bubble crashing.
      but it will be also slow to start, like bubble awareness.
      Most big companies will continue to think as-usual, to price as-usual until there is a really finished product on the shelves. There is no-way to convince the mainstream before that moment. Nelson results, tritium result, iwamura&toyota,spawar, enea Heat/He4, SRI/Brillouin report, all should have raised panic sales… there is no way to convince except when product is finished, build and sold… not even prototypes or pilot project can convince…

      the best image to how work mainstream is to thing of supercooling…
      despite evidence they still stay in the old beliefs decades after the facts… and in few minutes, it will be total panic…
      Delusion bubble explosion.