Lewis Larsen Claims CFL Lightbulbs Have LENR Inside

Lewis Larsen, CEO of Lattice Energy LLC, and collaborator with Alan Widom on the Widom-Larsen LENR theory hypothesises that LENR reactions are taking place in standard compact flourescent lightbulbs (CFLs).

Forbes.com columnist, Jeff McMahon, spoke with Lewis Larson following an article published in the journal Environmental Science and Technology reported on finding unexpected isotopes of mercury in used CFLs. In their study the researchers stated:

The trapped Hg of used CFL show unusually large isotopic fractionation (the distribution of mercury into its various isotopes), the pattern of which is entirely different from that which has been observed in previous Hg isotope research aside from intentional isotope enrichment

Larsen believes that the unusual isotope of mercury found in the bulbs is evidence of very low-level LENRs taking place inside them, and said, “If this outstanding new data is substantiated by further experimentation, it provides yet more proof that LENRs are likely to be a truly ‘green,’ safe nuclear technology.”

The Forbes column can be read in full here.

  • Andre Blum

    I like that last part!

    If it is LENR, we know from decades of experience that it is not (too) harmful.

    • I think that this may be the most valuable part of the discovery.

  • Sanjeev

    If his hypothesis is correct, may be someone can set up a device similar to a CFL but at a bigger scale and get not only mercury isotopes but also some useful excess energy.

    With experiments the exact mechanism can be found and amplified. This can become a new lenr tech.

    All depending on what actually causes uncommon Hg isotopes. A thorough study is needed to rule out other possibilities.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      “may be someone can set up a device similar to a CFL” that someone is Rossi

  • Barry

    Who needs to wait for Rossi’s 3rd party validation. A positive LENR article in Forbes? Cold Fusion has arrived.

  • georgehants

    New nuke could POWER WORLD UNTIL 2083
    Salt reactor runs on nuclear waste
    By Iain Thomson in San Francisco
    Posted in Science, 14th March 2013 20:51 GMT
    A company spun off from MIT is claiming it has cracked the holy grail of nuclear technology: a reactor design that runs on materials the industry currently discards as waste and which could meet all of the world’s power demands for the next 70 years. It’s also “walk-away safe,” the designers claim, making it immune to the kind of meltdown that destroyed the Fukushima reactors.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/14/nuclear_reactor_salt/

    • They call this holy grail?
      What will they say to LENR? 🙂

      I hope April is the month we all are waiting for.

      • georgehants

        barty, sincerely to you 🙂

    • Roger Bird

      I have heard of this about a month or so ago. It looks good to me, but I am not a nuclear engineer, as you folks may have guessed. (:->) Even if LENR gets rolling, this would be a simpler way to deal with nuclear waste. It seems so simple that one has to wonder why it has not been thought of before.

    • Peter_Roe

      I have mixed feelings about this idea, and the apparently similar (at least in purpose) LENR driven GeNiE reactor concept (http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/About.aspx).

      I think I would want to know more about the end products of these systems, but any way to make inroads into the tons of incredibly radioactive material stored in ‘spent fuel ponds’ at most reactor sites (and all the other leaking heaps of nuclear garbage around the world) must be a Good Thing.

      There are probably neater solutions that will emerge, but as CF ‘remediation’ of nuclear waste must be years or even decades away (along with other observed influences on decay rates that might be developed and used), then if they are feasible, special-purpose fission reactors seem at present to be the only practical way to get rid of the stuff, and to even produce some energy from the process.

      • Peter_Roe

        Having watched the video, it seems that this really might be an answer to the problem of spent fuel, if not the other types of nuclear waste. It’s definitely something that needs looking at, regardless of how LENR pans out. The energy available just from ‘burning’ the contents of the world’s existing spent fuel ponds would apparently be enough to power the world for centuries, and such reactors could potentially reduce the radioactive garbage piles to virtually nothing.

        • georgehants

          Peter, would I be wrong to read this graph as saying that up to about 250 years ago we where heading for an ice-age then things began to warm, probably many reasons why, human activity, industrial revolution or just Natures ways.
          It would seem that gaining Evidence of this kind is useful, against the thousands of crazy, the World is warming because more people have ingrowing toenails, that comes out of main-stream science.
          http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/were-screwed-11-000-years-worth-of-climate-data-prove-it/273870/

          • Peter_Roe

            AGW’s last stand. All Marcot has done is glue his curve onto the front of Mann’s hockeystick, but the hockeystick itself has long since been shown to be fake – based on heavily massaged data.

            If the IPCC has thrown in the towel (Delingbole article that fusionrudy linked in the previous thread) perhaps its time for Penn, Oregon State and East Anglia to follow suit.

  • Kim Patterson

    The CFL Lightbulb is something that every one uses
    every day now (for most).

    If nothing else it could serve as advertisement
    of the LENR affect to the psyche of people.

    This could serve as a pathway to “awareness”

    Its certainly is positive.

    Respect
    Kim

    • I have several friends that is Light Bulb manufacturers.
      Quite big ones… Ill give them a call later this afternone.
      Please provide all information there is on the subject.

      / Dr Bob

  • Chris I

    Now this is definitely interesting!

    All we need now is more definite tests on isotopic anomalies in Ni-H experiments. These are sadly insufficient.

    The last time I passed by my old physics dep’t I fished out an old pal who was once working at the SIMS lab there. He is currently on somewhat different work but still in close ties with them and I asked if he knew anything about Rossi & Focardi having requested tests on a sample of their Ni powder. He did not know in great detail, he said Carnera dealt with it, but no doubt the results appeared anomalous; he said Carnera found them interesting but in the end deemed better testing would be called for, in order to be fully convinced. He also said the Rossi’s prospective licensees from India had dropped by to enquire and he later heard they seemed to have lost interest.

    Personally, he was not very convinced. I did get the impression though that he is just very cautious; he wasn’t scoffing or hooting, only skeptical. I would even dare to call it healthy skepticism but I’m not sure. He did not seem interested in talking further about it and struck me not so informed either, beyond what he knew from Carnera.

    I suspect the main problem with isotopic analysis is that one would need to carry out a more exacting method, testing the same material before and after very exhausting euns with it, which I doubt Rossi is focussing on.

    • Andre Blum

      Thanks Chris, for this report.

  • vbasic

    Larsen also speculated LENRs are triggering the fires in Lithium-Ion Batteries in the new Dreamliner aircraft.

    http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/02/02/larsen-speculates-lenrs-as-triggers-for-lithium-ion-battery-fires/

    LENR might be an easy to achieve reaction. This reminds me of questions about the rechargeable NI-Metal Hydride batteries. They have a warning label only to use NIMH chargers. Other types might cause overheating, bursts even worse. So I was thinking of testing that and hooking my geiger counter to overcharging AAs.

  • Chuck

    Well, I just don’t know about LENR–if you’re really into hammers, everything starts to look like a nail.

    I find this to be a bit more reasonable:

    http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/web/2013/02/Mercury-Fluorescent-Bulbs-Unique-Isotope.html

    • Gerrit

      from the article: “This process might affect some mercury isotopes more than others, leading to a characteristic ratio of isotopes in the glass.”

      but there is no explanation offered of why some isotopes like to get into the glass more than others.

  • As I said in the previous thread, this article has nothing to do with science or following the evidence because there is none. The mundane explanation is ordinary isotopic fractionation for the part of mercury which gets trapped to the glass. There is no evidence speaking against the mundane explanation and none is claimed so it’s pure groundless speculation. I could also speculate that there is LENR happening under my fingernail. The only miracle is a psychological and sociological one: why do people find empty speculation interesting, why does Forbes publish it.

    In very sharp contrast, real LENR research is based on some observational findings which cannot be explained by other mechanisms. Such as anomalous heat which exceeds the chemical limit 10000 times.

    • Gerrit

      “The mundane explanation is ordinary isotopic fractionation”.

      I don’t think that’s an explanation at all, it’s an assertion.

      The researchers apparently “can’t explain why it’s so unique”.

      So if it is indeed fractionation (which I think it most likely is) it is still not understood why this happens here.

      Currently we only have an observation of a unique isotope fingerprint in the glass and anything else is speculation and that includes the “ordinary fractionation” assumption.

      • georgehants

        If so then +1

        • georgehants

          Scientific American
          Obama to Announce $2 Billion Plan to Get U.S. Cars Off Gasoline
          This afternoon, President Barack Obama will ask Congress to direct our cars, trucks and buses to a realm that doesn’t include gas stations. During a visit to Argonne National Laboratory, he will call for $2-billion energy security trust fund dedicated to research to boost automobile efficiency, enhance battery technology and expand the use of biofuels, among other clean-energy efforts. The ultimate goal: getting the country off oil.
          http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2013/03/15/obama-to-announce-2-billion-plan-to-get-u-s-cars-off-gasoline/

          • _Frank_

            That seems that the president doesn’t know anything about a 1MW e-cat plant running in a military site for one new now. Why to spend money for the expansion of biofuel-usage when you have the e-cat technology?

          • Omega Z

            Note that Bio-fuels are also expensive & still produce CO2 in the chain.
            Crude Oil can also be processed to be as clean as Bio-Fuels cheaper.
            NG would be a better alternative.
            so-called Green Alternatives are decades away from being economical & Efficient enough to power Big Riggs, Farm Equipment & Such…

            Nah, This is just Politics to appease certain Special Interest groups.

        • George. I have no problem with the underlying lamp study. I however do have an issue with the LENR speculation that someone has glued on top of it. The lamp study follows the evidence, the glued-on-top speculation doesn’t. Furthermore is looks to me that the speculation uses certain loopholes in our language to distort the meaning. I’m referring to the fact that “unexplained phenomenon” can have two different meanings: a phenomenon which provably breaks existing models (like the E-cat after 3rd party validation) or a phenomenon which is not yet proven to obey them (like my fingernail).

          • georgehants

            Pekka, difficult for me as I don’t understand any of the technicalities.
            Is Gerrit correct in that we have an anomaly that is not understood in any form.
            If so then I like to say great keep an open-mind on every possibility and do the Research.
            I would also agree that if somebody is saying it “is” connected to Cold Fusion when they should be saying it “could” be connected they have gone to far.

          • Chris I

            Your fingernail is not an unexplained phenomenon.

            What that article reports (as far as I understood, I’m no expert) is an empirical observation which defies known models, hence requiring an explanation which is currently unknown. This is not void of scientific interest.

            The idea that the missing explanation might be LENR is a conjecture, Yes, a conjecture and not a theorem. It is still interesting that isotopic anomalies have been observed and so far not fully explained. The possibility that it might eventually turn out to be a case of LENR is a lot more interesting than your fingernail.

          • Gerrit

            +1

      • Fractionation is a priori not surprising in this kind of system where mercury atoms circulate back and forth between different chemical compounds and different phases when the lamp is switched on and off thousands of times.

        • Gerrit

          yes, but the isotope signature cannot be explained completely by known fractionation mechanisms.

          That’s why some degree of speculation about the cause of this discrepancy is allowed.

  • Gerrit

    last 15 1/2 hours

    Lenuco 548-516 = 32
    Photovoltaics 458-429 = 29
    SmartPwrNet 357-249 = 108

    • georgehants

      Just asked my daughter to get her friends to vote at the office.
      This all makes the vote a bit daft but needs must I suppose.

      • Gerrit

        SmartPwrNet managed to increase from 357 to 375 votes (+18) in just half an hour.

        We must collect more votes, or they’ll come flying by in the last hours of voting.

        • Gerrit

          SmartPwrNet gained another 20 votes in just the last 15 minutes. They have their whole parent company voting for them it seems.

          • Veblin

            SmartPwrNet is getting about 1 vote per minute right now and they seem to be cheating to win. At the rate they are getting votes I think they made some software to make email accounts and then vote and confirm them.

          • Gerrit

            I think they just send a corporate email and made every employee of the parent company vote.

          • Gerrit

            last 1 1/2 hours

            Lenuco 559-548 = 11
            Photovoltaics 463-458 = 5
            SmartPwrNet 441-357 = 84

          • Veblin

            If you look at the energy monitoring network and software they have it would not be hard to make it vote also.

          • Gerrit

            true

          • AlainCo

            lenuco is second 🙁

  • Chuck

    Well, Dr. Larsen might want to investigate the isotopic distribution in a decommissioned mercury-arc valve. They’re typically used to regulate currents in the thousands of amperes and have a comparatively great deal of mercury inside.

    Any nuclear effects should be shown greatly magnified, as the heavy currents, duty cycle and lack of other contaminants, such as phosphors should exaggerate the effect.

    CFLs usually contain only tiny amounts of mercury in comparison to the other materials present inside the envelope.