Rossi: Lack of Funding No Problem

It’s been over two years since Rossi and Focardi came forward with their claims about the E-Cat, and we’re still waiting for a commercial product to show up on the market. While some are eagerly or anxiously waiting for more evidence of this technology, there are some who have given up, and concluded that the whole story is a big lie, and Andrea Rossi is just in it for the money. A couple of questions have come up on the JONP about funding and Rossi’s answers are interesting.

Q. Many LENR researchers are having funding problems. Are you and your research and/or your E-Cat development program being hindered in any way because of lack of funding?

A. We never worked upon funding, our strategy has always been based upon making working plants with our own money and get the funding from the payments of the Customers. This has always been our policy, because I believe in my work.

Q. In my previous question I was referring to available money from any source. Is your research or E-Cat development hindered in any way because of the lack of money?

A. No, it is not.

If Rossi is not hurting for funds, what does that mean? My best guess is that there is a big company now backing the E-Cat who are doing so because they have seen that he has a working product.

No details of this relationship have been revealed it’s interesting to me that so far no one who has done business with Rossi to this point has stepped forward publicly and said that he has defrauded them, or done anything that is financially underhanded. This brings up the question — if Rossi is just a scammer, what’s the scam?

  • Hampus

    Or he has money because he have sold some plants already. He was taking about several plants being in development to the secrete costumer. With each plants being sold for a couple of millions, that add up 🙂

    • Andre Blum

      That’s what he says: “… and get the funding from the payments of the Customers”

    • kasom

      we were told that there was an order for additional 12 plants but IMHO didn’t lern about when these should go operational…

  • Gerrit

    “payment of the customers”

    this could mean

    a) payment(s) for a working 1MW plant

    b) payment of licensing agreements

    c) ?

    • barty

      For b), I remember that there is currently no money flown to Rossi from this license orders.
      It’s on a escrow account until there is no sellable product which the licensees can sell.

      • Peter Roe

        That’s my understanding, too. We don’t know how many 1MW units Rossi has sold, but with a profit margin of about a million dollars per unit, probably one would have kept Leonardo Inc. going for a while. He may well have sold others.

        Now presumably his company has the money from the sale of the hot cat IP, and as the buyer will be paying for further R&D of the device, no outgoings in this respect. Hopefully Rossi will have arranged for some sort of profit share on hot cats produced though, as the LT unit is a dinosaur by comparison, and will disappear when the high temp. units become available, unless the COP can be substantially increased.

        Altogether a fairly healthy financial picture I would have thought (usual caveats).

      • yamal

        for what it’s worth, rossi only ever mentioned escrow when it came to his ip (referred to as ‘our tech’). the license contracts which have leaked don’t mention escrow either, so i don’t know where this idea originated from. besides, it would seem unnecessary to hold a license fee in an escrow for the right to sell a product which is already available. no distribution contract i ever heard of was ultimately linked to the success of the licensee in the sense that the licensee wouldn’t have to pay if they failed. if anything, the license itself could be linked to a minimum sales figure and automatically expire if agreed upon sales targets aren’t met.

        • Peter_Roe

          That does seem to be right – I have not been able to find any clear description of Rossi’s license terms, or any mention of escrow in this connection.

          There is apparently a 500,000 Euro escrow involved in the purchase terms for 1MW units (money back if a unit fails to meet specified criteria) and this may have been the origin of the idea that escrow is also involved in the ‘area license’ arrangements.

          http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/e_cat_conference_live_stream_9_8_12_9_9_12

    • artefact

      re c) wouldn’t the military pay extra money to have the technology first? Maby there is a contract that for one year they are the only customer.

      • Peter Roe

        IMHO there is still an outside chance that ‘the partner’ who now owns the rights to the hot cat is the US military (directly or indirectly), and that Rossi has no other ‘customers’. After all, they would know that CF is a fact, would be unlikely to want to see such a technology go to others, and have virtually unlimited funds.

        In this admittedly tenuous scenario, it would be probable that we will hear no more of substance about Rossi’s cold fusion machines, and JONP will at some point be allowed to quietly wither on the vine.

        • frank sedei

          Dead-on observation!

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Scene One: Coffee room at one of the institutions that’s testing an e-cat.

            John: “Hey, Mike, what’s the big trailer thing they’ve got running over there in Building Ten.

            Mike: “Well, according to what I heard it’s some kind of nuclear device that produces cheap, pollution-free energy at room temperature with no radiation. The top brass says it’s going to change the world. But don’t tell anybody. It’s top secret. I gotta go. See ya.”

            Scene two: Ten minutes later, in hallway outside coffee room.

            John: “Hey Brian, guess what they got over there in building 10… Now don’t tell anybody, it’s top secret, but Mike just told me…”

            Question: Considering human nature, is it possible to keep the location of a working, energy-producing e-Cat secret for over a year?

          • GreenWin

            Er, according to credible witnesses – it’s happened for 50 years.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AAJ34_NMcI

          • John-64

            “Question: Considering human nature, is it possible to keep the location of a working, energy-producing e-Cat secret for over a year?”

            Yes, probably. Apple kept the secret that they had ported MacOS to the x86 platform for over 5 years. That’s a long time.

            Personally, I have my doubts that the 3rd party test even exists. It’s coming up to 6 months now. How long does it take to test an e-cat? One year is my own personal limit.

            If the one year limit is reached, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that there is no test, and Rossi is lying. He is welcome to sue me for slander.

          • Bob

            He has said that Focardi has been observing the third party tests so I tend to believe that the tests are being done.
            If not he would run the serious risk of getting a contradiction from Focardi and that would not be a good look.

          • Omega Z

            Fibber

            SR-71 flew for 20 years. 1000’s of personnel worked to maintain it & keep it in operation before it was outed by the President. Except a couple allies & Adversaries, The Public never new. 50 years now & most everything about it is Still Classified & Secret.

            Area 51 along with several other bases. 1000’s of people involved. No one knows anything about what goes on their.

            Antarctica, McMurdo Station is supposedly Totally Non Military. Yet Naval personnel come & go regularly. Couple hundred Researchers there. Say they have no Idea why they are there, Where they go to or Return from. Has Nothing to do with the research Stations.

            Keeping a shipping container & it’s contents secret. Child’s Play.

            Th Real Problem may be it’s to easy for our Governments to keep Secrets.

          • Broadly, I agree. But specifically, I have seen a picture and Mach 3 performance description of SR-71 in a Finnish translation of a US popular science book which was printed in about 1972. The details were secret, its existence and general performance was not. But, generally speaking I agree, it’s possible to keep an E-cat secret for a while. A leakage is possible, but not bound to happen.

          • Peter_Roe

            Yes, it was very low profile, but its existence did ‘leak’ quite quickly, even if technical info didn’t (apart from the fact that it was titanium skinned). The plane first flew in 1964 and was operational in 1966. In 1968 the American company Revell offered an accurate 1/72 scale plastic model kit of the ‘Blackbird SR-71’.

            I know this because I bought one, even though I was a bit old for plastic model kits by then! Probably the Chinese and Russians bought a few of the kits as well.

        • Bob

          That is possible. It could be something along the same lines as his previous dealings with the US defense department (Navy I think) where he sold them a whole lot of thermoelectric converers to produce electricity from waste heat. On delivery, most of them produced no electricity at all and none of them produced more than a few watts. They were supposed to produce kilowatts. Rossi says it was a problem of upscaling the technology, although he doesn’t seem at all interested in re-visiting the technolgy to produce electricity from his ecats.
          That would have to say something.
          From this background, I would be surprised if the same department went down the same path again, but stranger things have happened.

          • Omega Z

            The Military Contacted Rossi to determine if Cheap High-Efficiency TEC’s could be mass Produced.
            Rossi thought it might be possible.

            To keep this in Context. It was strictly a Feasibility Research Project on TEC Efficiency & Manufacturing Costs. Run by the Military.
            Not Wattage or Kilowatts produced.

            According to the 150+ page Military report passed on to higher ups-

            Rossi produced (1) custom built TEC Device with approximate 20% Efficiency which was in the range of what they were looking for.

            Production was then contracted to 2 different labs for replications, Not by Rossi. Of about 20 devices, Many produced little or nothing. The rest produced in the low single digit 1% to 4% efficiency range. Mostly in the lower range.

            Their Conclusion was- Possible if Custom Built thou neither Economical or Practical.

            Problems lay in Materials, Purity & Manufacturing processes.
            It was Recommended that Further research be delayed to allow Material Science & Manufacturing Technics to advance & mature.

            Since then the Government has Sponsored a lot of research in both areas & Mass Producing such products are very near. However their Still Missing the Magic Ingredient. Cheap is no where to be found.

            As for Rossi not being interested in this process for the E-cats, Their neither efficient enough nor cheap enough to merge. He’s looking for at least a 33% efficiency to make it worth while..

            Technically, I can build a home completely 100% off Grid. Right Now.
            Why Don’t I. Because it’s just not Economically Practical.

            And- In the End, the True Success of the E-Cat will be Judged Accordingly. It will have to be Economically Practical with all that it will entail.

  • Stuey81

    Do you think he would admit he needed cash? If he is lying, he would need to continue the illusion everything was peaches, or as the poster above me points out, sale of the apparent millitary device has left him in a good financial position. Its black or white, he is lying or he is telling the truth. I really hope for the lattter.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I asked the above questions of Mr. Rossi not to question his sincerity or honesty but to simply ask him if he has all the financial resources necessary to develop and bring his E-Cat to an energy hungry planet. From his answers apparently he does, which is good news.

  • Cliff

    I think Rossi is getting his cash flow from early adopters who have commissioned him to build plants for them. He started by using his own money, so he knows how to run on a shoe-string budget (I wish the US Congress would do that). He sold the first one or more to military who need that kind of tech. He probably sold subsequent ones to private business that want to be early adopters. They want to understand what the tech can do for them and how to use it, with the promise that subsequent technical developments come their way first. Think of the competitive edge it could give.

    It’s a guess, but all the nay sayers have as much information as I do. I want Rossi to succeed and I look forward to putting all the Middle Eastern and central American tyrants out of business.

  • georgehants

    From Skeptoid
    LENR: A bright future? Part 2
    Posted on March 19, 2013 by Mike Weaver
    It’s time to close out my look at LENR. Join me as we take a look at the Weak Nuclear Force, the Weak Interaction Theory and chase down a few references provided by commenters of the last article.
    http://skeptoid.com/blog/2013/03/19/lenr-a-bright-future-part-2/

  • georgehants

    After 70 years science is still not clear that the Mind can effect our reality.
    One day!
    —–
    Science and technology news Home Nanotechnology Physics Space & Earth Electronics Technology Chemistry Biology Medicine & Health Other Sciences General Physics Condensed Matter Optics & Photonics Superconductivity Plasma Physics Soft Matter Quantum Physics Researchers suggest one can affect an atom’s spin by adjusting the way it is measured March 18, 2013 Causing collapse Enlarge All spin directions (represented by the spheres) collapse on one or the opposite direction depending on the measured photon polarization One of the most basic laws of quantum mechanics is that a system can be in more than one state – it can exist in multiple realities – at once. This phenomenon, known as the superposition principle, exists only so long as the system is not observed or measured in any way. As soon as such a system is measured, its superposition collapses into a single state. Thus, we, who are constantly observing and measuring, experience the world around us as existing in a single reality.
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-03-affect-atom-adjusting.html#jCp

    • Jim

      William Tiller, Professor Emeritus and former Chairman of the Materials Science Department of Stanford University, sells a test kit that he purports will demonstrate through physical measurement that mind DOES effect matter.

      http://www.tiller.org/

      • GreenWin

        And leading the WOO-parade is Fredrik Haraldsen, U Miami Philosophy prof running the Encyclopedia of American Loons – a compendium of rational thinkers in the eyes of a cry-by-night bonafide loon. Bill Tiller is #388.

    • Jim

      And while we’re leaning woo…

      http://www.glcoherence.org/

  • Roc Joco

    I’m not sure this is entirely true. There is an investor contact on the ecat.com website and I was personally contacted about investing in what is presumably the Leonardo Corporation. Try it [email protected]

    • Ash

      Rossi sold licenses to several companies, and according to Roger Greens leaked emails they were at least $100,000 each.

      It’s not truthful for him to say he has never taken funding in that case.

      • Roger Bird

        I don’t recall that he said that he has never taken funding. I think that he said that it was not a problem. Correct me if I am wrong; show me.

      • Redford

        If that’s so that isn’t funding. It’s called income. Buying licenses doesn’t buy shares.

        I think it’s simple really. Rossi has money, had invested, sold one or two plant and a few licenses maybe and he is sitting on something that’s efficiently self funded. Well, if he’s not a scam. Because else some payers at least would become vocal about it if nothing comes that they had paid for.

  • Roger Bird

    It is entirely possible that Rossi’s no lack of funding is why other LENR developers are having trouble getting funding. If Rossi has plenty of funding and his operation is more advanced than everyone else’s, then there is a good chance that investors are scared away from other LENR investments, and they should be. Rossi could be winning and we can’t even tell, except to take his word for it.

  • georgehants

    Daily Grail
    An update to last week’s post about TED’s removal (from YouTube) of talks by Graham Hancock and Rupert Sheldrake: after a weekend of being slammed for both the removal of the videos, and the manner in which they handled it (ie. making up complaints about the talks), TED have edited the page to include a blistering response from Rupert Sheldrake, and retracted the comments originally made (by striking through the text, rather than simply deleting the text). They have also issued a follow-up response to the controversy, which will be clarified further in the next day.
    http://www.dailygrail.com/Fresh-Science/2013/3/TED-Reframe-Arguments-Against-Talks-Hancock-and-Sheldrake

    • Gerrit

      you can’t make this stuff up.

      TED is a douchebag

    • Peter_Roe

      Oh dear – it doesn’t seem to be quite as easy as it used to be for the guardians of the status quo to censor ideas they don’t like.

      I like the comment by ’emlong’ – “it is a sign that we haven’t all permanently gone to sleep yet”. People are increasingly on their guard as the internet continues to expose mainstream manipulation.

  • Sergio

    The title of this post is misleading. It implies that Rossi is out of funds.

  • Jacob

    Actually I was going to buy a conventional Gas hater to my house, but now I cancelled the plan, waiting for a E-Cat reactor.

    • Paolo

      I suggest you to be short on oil and bet on its fall. When the third party report on E-Cat will be published, it will hit the financial market like an earthquake.

      • Claes

        Hardly – that will take something more unless it’s endorsed by very heavy names or published in something like Nature, Science or PNAS – which I doubt. Otherwise it’s a longer process.

    • Mattias

      Why a gas hater? How about a gas lover instead?

      • Invy

        That way you can both enjoy the Dutch oven.

    • Omega Z

      Jacob

      If your talking about a high efficiency 95%plus heating system, I would suggest going ahead with it. Within 4 or 5 years it will pay for itself in savings.

      Most probably it will be that long before a home E-cat is available. That’s just the way the market works.

      • Jacob

        So, I understand that e-cat will not be available for house applications before 5 years ahead.

    • huilin

      I have asked Rossi about the marketing time of his household e-cat heater. However, he just gave me a vague answer—all depend on the certificate…