E-Cat Testing in Sweden?

An article on the Swedish site Osunt (means ‘unsound’), a blog that follows environmental and political topics, an article has been published about the E-Cat which reports on a rumor that there has been testing going on at the Svedberg Laboratory at Upplsala University in Sweden. The article states (Google + human translation)

What then is this new rumor? It may be a result of a whispering game, but the source of the rumor has stated that it came from the horse’s mouth. As one of few institutions to have had access to an e-cat, the Svedberg Laboratory in Uppsala has examined it, tested it long-term (+100 h) and preliminarily determined that surprisingly, there was an energy surplus. Preliminarily because the energy could only be measured in the form of radiation, not calorimetrically (eg submerged in water), which would had given an accurate result, but it is still a strong indication.

Svedberg Laboratory houses researcher Hidetsugu Ikegami, Sven Kullander and Roland Pettersson, who appeared in this context before.

I’ve heard rumors previously about 3rd party testing in Sweden, and Rossi did mention that they had done a 120 hour test just recently — not sure if the two reports are connected, however. No mention who ‘the horses’ mouth might be, but it implies someone involved with the testing.

With news so scarce, there’s not a whole lot to go on except snippets of reports here and there — I guess that is what a rumor is. Nothing to hang one’s hat on, but something to think about, at least.

  • Torbjörn

    daniel maris on April 13, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    In more colloquial English:

    What does this new rumor consist of, then? It may be a result of Chinese Whispers, but the person who passed on the rumour has stated that it came from the horse’s mouth (i.e. someone involved in the testing).

    The Svedberg Laboratory in Uppsala is one of the few institions to have had access to an e-cat, allowing them to examine the machine and subject it to lengthy tests (+100 h). The tests have produced the surprising preliminary result that there was an energy surplus. “Preliminary” because the energy could only be measured in form of radiation, not calorimetrically (eg submerged in water), which would had given a detailed measurement. But this is still a strong indication.

    The Svedberg Laboratory is associated with the researchers Hidetsugu Ikegami, Sven Kullander and Roland Pettersson, who have been mentioned in connection with the E-Cat before.

    • Adam Lepczak

      My bet is that these people were granted access to the Ecat and they will be publishing the report.

      • KD

        But as Rossi stated. They were granted access to test E-Cat, not to open it and look inside.
        Also, Rossi man is present at the testing just in case he is needed and to secure Rossis IP.

  • pg


  • This seems to look good for Rossi’s claims, or did I missunderstood that?

    They messured heat radiation?

    • Bob

      The words used were “and preliminarily determined that the startling enough, an energy surplus”
      I take this as meaning, much to their surprise, they found an excess of energy in the output compared to input. They make no mention of how much excess energy.
      They also say ” energy could only be measured in the form of radiation, not calorimetrically (eg submerged in water), which had given an accurate result, but still a strong indication.”
      The translation is ambiguous but I take the meaning as, the test was NOT done by the heating of water, which would give an accurate result, but by radiation measurement, which would only give an indication.
      If it’s all true then I am at least happy that someone else is actually looking at it.

      In another recent reply on his blog, Rossi mentions;-
      “About the results, I will know them the same day you will: we both will read the report as soon as it will be published.
      – Let’s hope that they will make us resurrect, sort of Lazarus !”

      I can only read that as meaning he sees things as moving very slowly at the moment. This is a surprise if he has the backing and involvement of some very powerful partner as has often been reported. It sort of confirms my earlier stated belief that this third party testing was insisted on by the new partner and they are waiting on the result before they throw some hard money at it. This is also consistent with his statement that he is worried.

      • I can confirm the translation. The blogger also tells about his personal background that he had read the NyTeknik articles, but then stopped following Rossi for about two years ago because he thought that if it was real, it would have been world news quickly. In other words, the blogger describes himself as sceptic (or at least that was his state of mind before the rumour that he reports).

        “Lazarus” just follows on Luca’s remark “Please can you tell the professors involved in the third party report, that they’re literally killing us?”. I don’t think it carries any deeper meaning other than expressing empathy to Luca’s impatience which is self-ironic from both sides.

      • Peter Roe

        I also think that the only likely and logical commissioner of the ‘report’ is Rossi’s corporate partner, in which case I think it is possible to read the present situation in several ways:

        (a) The test results are inconclusive or very weak, but the partner knows that the prototype is performing, so they now just want to forget the report even if this leaves AR high and dry.

        (b) The test results are inconclusive or very weak, and the prototype is not working, so the partner now just wants to dump the whole deal – quietly.

        (c) The test results are good, confirming the progress being made with the prototype, so everything is to plan.

        (d) There is no partner, there have been no tests, Rossi is persuing some strange fantasy and has managed to fool many qualified people along the way, most of whom continue to support him (or at least are not out to bring him down).

        What these scenarios have is one thing in common – a complete lack of any commercial rationale for actually publishing the results, or in the last case, no report to publish anyway.

        If the project seems to be a lead balloon, why let anyone outside the company know about it? It would be potentially commercially damaging and embarassing to all concerned.

        If they now know they have control of the hottest thing since sliced bread, whether or not the report confirms this, well — why let anyone outside the company know about it? Whether the plan is to retrofit their own plants or to sell boilers to existing customers, there would be no commercial advantage at all in alerting competitors and possible adversaries to the reality and practicability of LENR beforehand.

        And of course, if there is no report, then we have all been wasting our time and should go back to using it constructively.

        I think that if the report is negative it will just quietly disappear, whether or not the prototype development is going well. If it is positive it will probably also remain private, and will most likely not emerge until the partner is good and ready. This might possibly be when they announce that their in-house retrofitting program has gone well, safety is proven and certified – and is anyone else interested in buying a proven cold fusion boiler or in licensing the technology?

        Meanwhile, AR will increasingly look a clown and the shills will have a chance to jeer. He should really have kept quiet about the whole thing, and his apparent desire to keep his followers informed may come at a price.

        • NJT

          Something does not add up here, at least to my understanding. If these universities and researchers were commissioned to do this research by Rossi and his partners. If they, as Rossi has said are doing this e-cat study on their own time and dime. Then this independent report could be made public without the consent of Rossi and his companions since it is truly an “independent study” is it not? Who really owns the report?

          • Peter Roe

            Yes, that is a crucial question. I find it a little difficult to accept Rossi’s version – this isn’t the usual behaviour of University academics and it doesn’t ring true to me. However, if it is the truth then publication must be imminent – there wouldn’t be any reason to hang back, whatever the results.

            On the other hand, if the ‘partner’ sponsored and arranged to tests, then I would not expect to see anything emerge for months, and then only as small part of an orchestrated public awareness campaign. As a ‘stand alone’ publication, even glowing positive results would be ignored by the mainstream, and the effort would effectively be wasted.

        • GreenWin


          sliced bread was indeed a significant breakthrough in bakery arts; however I suspect it will be overshadowed by LENR/e-cat, if only because of substantial cost reduction of baked goods in general.

          I am looking forward to nice buttery croissant at something less than 4€. Progress is great!

          • Peter Roe

            GW – I suppose I would have to reluctantly concede that the advent of cold fusion might be slightly more significant than the invention of sliced bread. But taken together with the invention of the electric toaster it would be a pretty close thing.

            4€ for a croissant! Where do you eat in Europe – the Savoy Grill? Benoit? Hotel Meurice? Have a bag of oily chips for £1.50 instead – the gastronomic fast food icon of the UK.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Uppsala University was founded 15 years before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

    • captain

      Hopefully this time the swedes will take right measurements on Rosssi’s reactor COP 😉


      University of Bologna
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      The University of Bologna (Italian: Università di Bologna, UNIBO) is a university located in Bologna, Italy, founded in 1088.
      As of 2000 the University’s motto is Alma mater studiorum (Latin for “nourishing mother of studies”). The University has about 100,000 students in its 23 schools. It has branch centres in Imola, Ravenna, Forlì, Cesena and Rimini and a branch center abroad in Buenos Aires. Moreover, it has a school of excellence named Collegio Superiore di Bologna.
      It is widely[citation needed] recognised as one of the the oldest university in continuous operation, considering that it was the first to use the term universitas for the corporations of students and masters which came to define the institution.


      Rossi, Focardi, Stremmenos and others from said UNIBO took energy measurements with great care: as stated by Focardi, he took COP measurements in Rossi’s Bondeno warehouse in different ways, three times, to be sure of the result. It happened approx 4 yrs ago, when they got also a COP200 😉

      with the hope my comment could bee seen after mod.n

  • Lukedc

    Could it be that the second requested test was with a water calorimeter. This is really what I want to see.

  • Veblin

    From JONP – Journal Of Nuclear Physics.

    Luca Salvarani
    April 13th, 2013 at 2:17 PM
    Dear Andrea

    1) Sorry but I’m really too eager to read the third party report and discover your new generation hot cat. Can we still expect its publication in April or a bit later? Thank you and forgive my impatience…
    2) What are your feelings for the report release, and for the plant delivery? You seem very calm and confident… are you?

    PS Please can you tell the professors involved in the third party report, that they’re literally killing us?

    Andrea Rossi
    April 13th, 2013 at 3:41 PM
    Dear Luca Salvarani:
    1- I absolutely have no idea of the date of the publication, I am no more in contact with the Professors. They told me after the tests that the publication could be made by April, but ” could be” does not mean “will be”.
    2- I have to be calm, because it is necessary to work well. About the results, I will know them the same day you will: we both will read the report as soon as it will be published.
    3- Let’s hope that they will make us resurrect, sort of Lazarus !
    Thank you for your enthusiasm,
    Warm Regards,

    Giuliano Bettini
    April 13th, 2013 at 3:04 PM
    Dear Andrea,
    some of my “Facebook friends” are buying strange potions to celebrate the release of the Report.
    There is talk of Beer, Champagne, Asti Spumante, spanish “Moscatel”. I do not agree. To celebrate, Fermi opened a bottle of Chianti. In this case I would have suggested Lambrusco, but perhaps with Lambrusco they should eat something.
    If you can tell us, with what you celebrate? Champagne, Whisky, Lambrusco, fresh water, nothing?
    (I shall share with them).

    Andrea Rossi
    April 13th, 2013 at 3:32 PM
    Dear Giuliano Bettini:
    To celebrate before the results is dangerous, under a scaramantic point of view.
    Let’s wait and stay silent, allowing the Professors complete their indipendent work . For now better drink water.
    Warm Regards,

    • SolarSurfer

      “1- I absolutely have no idea of the date of the publication, I am no more in contact with the Professors. They told me after the tests that the publication could be made by April, but ” could be” does not mean “will be”.”

      Rossi really needs to improve his communication skills. Three weeks ago, he wrote:

      ” Andrea Rossi
      March 25th, 2013 at 7:58 AM

      Dear Andre Blum:
      1- please wait the report, which will be published within 3 weeks with all the details”

      • Veblin

        Andrea Rossi
        March 25th, 2013 at 7:58 AM

        Dear Andre Blum:
        1- please wait the report, which will be published within 3 weeks with all the details
        2- that is a very important issue we are working upon
        3- Brian Josephson will be surely invited to visit the 1 MW plant in operation, when the plant will be visitable. The publication will be totally indipendent from me, as well as the tests have been: as the tests have been made with instrumentation belonging to the test indipendent party, so the magazine will be chosen by it. The sole thing they told me is that the publication will be made possibly around the half of April One of them said: ” What we have seen is too important, must absolutely be published”. I do not know any other issue regarding the publication.
        Warm Regards,

  • Richard Hill

    Interesting? I have been following a couple of “penny” nickel mining stocks in Australia. After months of inactivity there has been trading in the last few days. (Ausnico and Nickelore)

    • Luca Salvarani

      Dear Richard Hill

      I don’t think that it’s linked in any way with the e-cat because Rossi has said many times that the quantity of nickel necessary is very very little… When the market will price e-cat effects we will see it immediately and on other different financial assets..

      • Demand for nickel should anyway increase along with other metals if economy starts to grow spurred by an E-cat revelation.

        • orsobubu

          I don’t expect economy grows so much if Ecat technology should prove working. In case of electricity or steam energy, for example, they did spur entirely new classes of industries. But with Ecats, you would substitute highly complex and intensive capital sectors (fossil energy, transporting, etc) with highly robotized, simple devices, disrupting entire industrial sectors and reducing working force, extracted surplus value, capitals and money. Energy would get much cheapier for poor countries, but this would have another extremely high nefarious side-effect: creating a new set of competing countries. In a globalized economy, this is a good exit only in the first, expansion phase; on the long run, it is tragic, as you can see clearly in this (surely worsening) global crisis substantially triggered by the imperialistic rise of China, India and so on. Consider that I’m referring to exchange value effects (capital and money creation); obviously, Ecat would be fantastic on user-value (usefullness for mankind), but we are talking here about a capitalistic economy, where the growth limits are an evidence that only wars could offset. Instead, Ecat or similar discoveries would represent a blessing in a future, revolutionary communist society, and for mankind expansion in the outer space, where you could not easily extract surplus value, given the objective difficulty to establish there millions of workers.

          • Luca Salvarani

            Dear Orsoblu

            I can only say that you’ve got really bizzarre (at very least) ideas… the most bizzare is that we’re in a capitalistic economy.. it seems to me that our economy seems much more the “revolutionary communist society” you’re hoping for, than a real free market-oriented one I’m hoping for.
            I wish my previous extensive post (currently under moderation) will be published to give our readers another complety different idea of e-cat effects.

          • buffalo

            @luca salvarani.very true,makes me wonder why these communists are so angry/bitter?

          • pg


          • Bob

            e-bay? What? you can get them on e-bay?
            Oh, sorry .. My eyes aren’t what they used to be.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Too many potential customers? What does that tell us?

            Andrea Rossi
            April 15th, 2013 at 5:36 AM
            To the Readers:
            For commercial issues please contact
            [email protected]
            We are spamming all the comments requesting commercial information.
            Warm Regards,

  • Nixter

    Human nature is somewhat predictable, I would expect that early, secret testing would generate too much internal excitement to keep the information completely secret, some leakage would most likely happen if the news were real. This partially confirms my suspicions of Rossi actually having a working LENR energy device, at a time when most of our planet has not heard so much as a whisper of it, and wouldn’t believe it if they did. I am excited by the prospects of this fantastic tale finally achieving a momentum from which there will be no going back. I say lets open the door to Earths new future, it’s the ideal time for a new energy frontier!

  • Björn

    I find it very unlikely that Andrea Rossi would let anybody test the Ecat without his control, so
    why should he take an ecat to Sweden for testing and be there to guard it while they are testing?
    Perhaps it was a post from Peter Ekström in the Swedish forum Energikatalysatorn.se that started the rumor.
    He told a similar story but it was posted on the first of April.
    Peter Ekstöm was one of the skeptics from the Lund University in the TV-program from SVT.
    He is spending a lot of time on that forum, mocking the believers, so it was obviously a joke.

    • Warthog

      There is NO indication that Rossi has required that he “be present” at third party tests. In fact he has stated several times that he has deliberately stayed away from such tests in order that they may be considered totally free of any influence by him. That sort of contradicts what “you find”, which is totally speculative.

    • Torbjörn

      No, Peters joke are not similar to this article.

      • Björn

        He never mentioned Kullander & co, that’s true.

        • Torbjörn

          Name one thing that i similar besides the positive result.

    • Roger Bird

      Do Swedes do that April Fool thingie? Ya’ know, not every culture does the April Fool thingie and any number of other thingies that us American take for granted.

      • Shane D.

        I doubt it Roger. From what I read the Swedes have no sense of humor. 🙂

        • Roger Bird

          Shane, are you being a racist? I hope not, or else I would have to report you to the nearest liberal for rehabilitation.

          • HeS


            Racism itself is not bad. Its only idea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism). Racial discrimination is bad.

          • Roger Bird

            Yes, it is what backs up the generalization that sometimes is called racism. Are the emotions that back up racism hatred, fear, indifference? Or are they platonic love and caring?

          • buffalo

            lol @roger bird,you amaze me sometimes,just the other day you called somebody a ‘libtard’.

          • Roger Bird

            That must have been a long time ago. But remember, libtard is a choice. (:->) Sometimes you have to whack people over the head to get their attention.

        • Björn

          You are absolutely right, Shane.
          We swedes have no sense of humor at all.
          The only time I laughed in my life was when my grandma died.

      • Mattias

        Roger: Yes, we do April fool jokes here.

        Shane: We do have a sense of humor!

  • georgehants

    Science on NBC News
    Mysteriously shrinking proton puzzles physicists
    DENVER — The size of a proton, long thought to be well-understood, may remain a mystery for a while longer, according to physicists.
    Speaking Saturday at the April meeting of the American Physical Society, researchers said they need more data to understand why new measurements of proton size don’t match old ones.
    “The discrepancy is rather severe,” said Randolf Pohl, a scientist at the Max Planck Institute of Quantum Optics. The question, Pohl and his colleagues said, is whether the explanation is a boring one — someone messed up the measurements — or something that will generate new physics theories.

    • Roger Bird

      So, are they going to assume that the measurements of the proton were wrong in the past, or are they going to assume that the proton is shrinking, or are they going to assume nothing and do a bunch of the same previous experiments and see what happens, among other things. I am not the only person to suggest that perhaps the Solar System is drifting into a patch of Dark Matter with a different density, or something else that we don’t have a clue about. Our “constants” are assumed constants. They are dogmas. The speed of light being a constant is a dogma. And there is plenty of evidence that lightspeed is not a constant, unless you buy the dogma that it is a constant and therefore the measurements were inaccurate.

      Oh well, I guess that it takes a philosopher to figure these things out.

      • Dave Lawton

        Roger there is a good chance you are right ,the Fine structure constant
        may have changed. The universe is a bit lumpy.

        • GreenWin

          Like gravy? h/t Zappa.

      • georgehants

        March 25, 2013
        New research shows speed of light is a variable

        • GreenWin

          Just as predicted by Rupert Sheldrake in the recent censored TEDx Talk “The Science Delusion.”

  • georgehants

    From PhysOrg
    US digital library brings culture, history online
    For students as researchers, DPLA can be an alternative to Wikipedia, because the new library will be a primary resource.
    “Wikipedia is a secondary source,”
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-04-digital-library-culture-history-online.html#jCp

  • Kim

    Please understand that the
    Bankers are mightily confused.

    They have been up night and day
    trying to figure out how they can
    make even more money, but yet keep
    the people as slaves.

    Decisions, Decisions…


  • Roger Bird

    A Swedish university would suffer slightly from a credibility problem simply because all human beings are stained at least ever so slightly with self and national centrism, plus the fact that the Swedes have already said good things about the E-Cat. If Rossi wanted to go solely for credibility, he should have had MIT test it, without Hegelstein et. al., where they already hate him (Rossi). But if Rossi wanted someone he could trust to give honest results and not try to destroy him, I guess he couldn’t do better than Sweden. If there is a positive report coming out of Sweden, Europe will believe it and respond accordingly, but the USA will still not believe, at least not fully. (No, for you liberals, we are not the most racist country on Earth. We are merely human.)

    • artefact

      keep in mind that the report is said to come from 4 universities. I think the swedish university is one of them. Maybe also Bologna and one or two US universities.

      • Roger Bird

        I am going to take a wild guess and say that Bob Jones University is probably not one of them. We can check that one off of our list. 2,499 universities to go.

      • Andre Blum

        Rossi has said they were European universities.

        • HeS

          @AB:”they were European universities”

          and not Italian.

          • David

            Why not italian?

          • Luca Salvarani

            Good question! I bet 1 is italian, likely the Bologna university.

          • HeS

            @:”not Italian”

            Rossi said.

          • David

            “Rossi said” where?

          • HeS

            Rossi comment (http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=785&cpage=1):

            Andrea Rossi
            February 5th, 2013 at 1:19 PM

            Dear Broenink:
            The third party indipendent validation tests have been funded directly by the scientists and some of the Universities ( not Italian) which are making the tests. All the expenses for instrumentation, men hours, hotel, restaurants, taxi etc have been paid indipendently by the Entities who are making the indipendent validation. This is the reason why
            1- the report will be published indipendently from the results
            2- we cannot know anything of the date of the publication
            3- we do not know where the publication will be made
            4- we do not know exactly when the tests, that are still in the making, will be finished. Lately I have been informed that more tests will be made to be sure of the results, repeating again the tests.
            5- we can assist to the tests, but we cannot make any operation during the tests.
            6- the reason for which all these scientists are making these tests and for which their Universities are paying the expenses is merely scientific
            Thank you for your questions,
            Warm Regards,

        • Luca Salvarani

          To Andre

          It would be foolish not to involve at least 1 American or English university out of 4! This report will make history and I’m quite sure 1 american university is involved. The US will be by far the first and the most important market for this technology, it’s the main power in the sciente and technology fields, it rules all the process from safety certifications to intellectual property protection ecc… In other words nothing can really happen in the LERN fiels, if the US don’t say OK and Rossi knows it very well! so Americans and English must be involved at the highest possible levels in every phase. We can afford not to involve an italian university, but absolutely not an American one. My preference: 1 American, 1 Italian, 1 Swedish and 1 German… it would be perfect!

    • GreenWin

      MIT was given the chance and failed. They will soon be dining on a healthy portion of well-stewed crow.

  • For Italian readers: some kind of Hydrobetatron (Ugo Abundo) analysis report is available at 22passi, http://www.22passi.it/pirelli/HYDROBETATRON%202.0-4MB.pdf

    • lcd

      yeah please translate

  • Fibber McGourlick

    ” What we have seen is too important, must absolutely be published”. (Tester told A.R.)

    This indicates success. If so, why on earth would they hesitate to tell the world that a new era has dawned because of this transformative advance (which –see quote above–they’ve actually already admitted they’ve seen in the lab tests)? Failing a straight-up disclosure, why would such amazing news not leak out? Why would governments and corporations not know about it sooner, rather than later? It all seems a bit contrary to ordinary logic and human nature. What would a device that produces pollution-free cheap energy mean to the world? Salvation! If it exists, nothing could stop it and the secret of its existence could not be contained for very long. Come on.

    • Roger Bird

      Fibber, reports take time to put together. Be patient.

      But, you don’t understand that “a bit contrary to ordinary logic and human nature” for you is not contrary to ordinary logic for other people, particularly those boffins who are oblivious to human nature and are strictly hard science evidence and theory based. So many hard science evidence and theory based people, particularly those who make a lot of money off of hot fusion and similar projects, don’t believe LENR and won’t until E-Cats are being sold at Home Depot, and even then they will probably think that E-Cats may be dangerous and not buy them like some people won’t buy microwave ovens.

    • Kim

      The poor
      Bankers are mightily confused.

      They have been up night and day
      trying to figure out how they can
      make even more money, but yet keep
      the people as slaves.

      Decisions, Decisions…


    • Fibber McGourlick

      I see it this way… The industrial revolution was a firecracker. An infinite abundance of cheap, non-polluting energy is an atomic bomb. How can it be controlled? How can it be hidden? How can it pass unnoticed?

      • George N

        I like that metaphor! Another one is that humanity will finally break out of it’s shell

    • sempervivum

      What does it mean.

      Multitudes of angry unemployed energy industry workers

      Third world status for various middle Eastern states

      New ways of taxing the public for energy and transport , probably toll booths on every highway

      • Fibber McGourlick

        1. We already have multitudes of displaced and unemployed workers and have always had them. It’s the duty of a civilized society to help sustain them and their families and help them in every way possible while they strive to find a new source of employment income.

        2. Most Middle-Eastern people live in abject subjugation, oppression, and turmoil that is the equivalent of a third-world existence—or even worse.

        3. Taxes on fuel (i.e. energy and transport) already exist and are extremely high. A new source of electrical energy that can be operated by the homeowner and independent trucker (to run his stuff and charge his electric vehicles) offers the possibility of a much reduced tax just for infrastructure—with the consent of the governed, of course.

        What did the internal combustion engine mean? Millions of harness-makers and horse workers unemployed and the whole horse kingdom downgraded. On the other hand, it offered a multitude of huge benefits to everyone. It’s called progress.

        What did farm machinery mean? Millions of peasants and farm workers un-employed, but better and cheaper food for the growing multitudes. Progress.

        What is the difference between the 19th and the 20th century? Billions of people, including aristocrats living a much better life because of progress and invention.

        What is the difference between the 20th century and the 21st? The 21st century transformative non-polluting, cheap energy device (Rossi’s Ecat or another cold fusion device) will end pollution and provide inexpensive energy. Planet will thus able to support billions more people on a higher level of prosperity. * * I need not mention the heavy toll on our health and the health of our children. Are you aware that the World Heath Organization and the American Cancer Association have concluded that Diesel fumes cause lung cancer? This will be eliminated with the advent of cheap, safe energy.

        It may prevent future wars based on the coming water shortages and similar needs.

        There were millions of people displaced by Globalization and millions more will be displaced by cold fusion or whatever device finally materializes, but they will adapt and survive in their various ways. Great inventions in the end increase the general wealth and create many more productive jobs than are lost by it. And what invention could be better (or more necessary) than the one that ends deadly pollution and global destruction following upon serious global warming, and gives us energy cheap enough to make possible the economical desalination of oceans on a world-scale–among many other immense benefits.

        • dsm

          A well put post – thanks !.


        • GreenWin

          Nicely put Fib. Let’s not forget that abundant energy removes a staple reason for military conflict. Which means realignment of missions to provide social and technological services will keep this sector busy and funded. Provided mission realignment takes place.

          • Ed Young

            Wonderful post, rubber. And a terrific point greenwin. Really, lovely…

      • Warthog

        “Multitudes of angry unemployed energy industry workers”

        Who are highly skilled in making electricity “sit up and beg”, and who will rapidly be re-employed in the planet-wide deployment and installation of LENR generators. All LENR is is a heat source. Converting that to electricity will still take skills and brainpower. Even if the “home E-Cat” becomes a reality, there will STILL be “utility-scale” industrial generating plants to power refineries, chemical plants, production lines, etc., etc., etc.

        • Peter Roe

          That’s right. Running and maintaining a CF power station is going to be much the same as running and maintaining a gas power station or any other kind, and distributed generation will probably greatly increase the need for energy sector workers in the medium term.

          Unconverted gas power stations, aircraft, ships, cars and trucks will still need gas and oil for a decade or more, and production can be gradually scaled down as CF introduction proceeds, with losses offset by new profits from the latter.

          The whole introduction will be managed carefully by the cartels to achieve a seamless transition, with minimal asset write-down and maximum profits. So unless private/domestic units become suddenly and widely available (this will not be in the game plan) there will be no multitudes of unemployed energy industry workers heading for the nearest CF power station with sledge hammers.

          • timycelyn


          • Peter Roe

            Tim – you seem to have been cut off in your prime! Have you been abducted by aliens?

      • Omega Z


        NO Tollbooths!

        Federal & State Government are already on it.
        A Mileage Tax. They’ve got it covered plus extra…

        • Peter Roe

          No toll booths (apart from the TSA maybe) but certainly new ways of taxing energy and travel.

  • buffalo

    its not easy @fibber.you,ve got a thing in your hand equivalent to an energy holy grail now you must swim AGAINST a politicaly correct river using political correctness,not easy.

    • Its okay not to say

      Who says you have to be political correct?
      Thats just something an non-political correct person would say if you ask me.

      • buffalo

        an energy holy grail in your hand would make you very poilitcaly incorrect wether you are politicaly correct or not my friend.

        • Bob

          It would only make you politically incorrect to those who sell oil , gas and coal. There are so many people and politicians screaming out for cleaner energy that those opposed to it would be drowned out in a few days.
          The only thing holding back the technology is the proof that any of it actually works in an efficient manner.
          Produce some proof in the form of a worthwhile functional device and every green party and environmentalist will soon make sure that it becomes established.

          • Omega Z

            People invested in Fossil fuels will just realign their investments to LENR Corporations. Not that big a deal.

            Employees will fare less off. Many will have to be retrained & those who are close to retirement may take a beaten. But Transitioning to LENR will take a long while so it wont be that bad for the majority.

            The Greens on the other hand, Their “Hierarchy” that make their Living off of Donations will soon find themselves out of a Well paid do little Job. They may not be as happy about clean energy as one might think.

            They may have to find a new cause & it can take years to build a following with donations to support their standards of living. They May have to find a Real Job.

          • Right.

            Big oil will change job, even if laying some workers.
            Workers will be laid, but also will get into a new boom. Hard point will be that they may need some re-training, and some “good moral”… If LENR is seen as positive they will happily get into the new job. of not, like in france, it will be awful and laymen lobbies will block all.

            Right that the losers will be the trillion funded green-industry, and the billions funded NGOs.

            I don’t invent those numbers (greenergy is funded 2trillion already in Germany for 20 years, and Greenpeace+WWF+some big NGO gat above the billion $ of subsidies, plus free workers and free journalist that big oil cannot afford).

            Add to that all the politricial from all sides that finally surrender to the fashion, and that will have to change target…

            If you want to know who are the powerful lobbies, see what are the recent regulation voted in EU, in US…
            is it pro-oil, pro-nuke, pro-lab, pro-GM?

          • GreenWin

            It is interesting that disguised political movements such as the “Greens” will lose nearly all to LENR. This is because they are not conservationists, nor environmentalists. They are a political lobby trying to force their views on humanity.

            IF Greens were truly interested in environment or conservation of habitat, they would be joyful about LENR. Instead, they see their climate campaign collapsing and $2 Trillion annual gravy train with it. With LENR replacing climate fear, Greens might have to get real jobs.

          • Among another green, in muslim countries you have a new generation of student trained in Madrassa with PhD on Islamic laws.
            Those lawyers without states have a strong incentive to implement what they are only competent in, as civil laws for their states. They are even desperate to do so.

            This is the same in France with PhD or MSc in “sustaineable development” (I like the principle, not the fashion), “climate change”…

            Education should not force people to support a theory, a policy, a political party, just to have a job.

            Anyway, it is quite common, and education itself is full of people who claim their courses are useful, just to keep their job, and train the next generation of professors, and a long lane of unemployed.

            Workers should be allowed to update their training when things get obsoleted. not easy.

  • GreenWin

    Blogger Bruce Fast recently visited Defkalion in Vancouver, Canada and amongst other things had this to say:

    Further, the Canadian government has recognized that the LENR reaction is not a classic nuclear reaction, so it does not need to comply with the safety regulations developed for classic nuclear reactions. CSA (The Canadian Standards Association) is just down the street, and has rights to certify safety even for the US market.”

    It would be interesting to read the documents supporting this determination.

    • Ash

      There are none, obviously.

      Also noted in his report:

      – there was nobody at the Defkalion office apart from receptionist and sales and marketing staff

      – Defkalion are planning to branch out into manufacturing mass spectrometers. Reminds me of Steorn.

      • GreenWin

        You are suggesting Bruce is a liar?? Were you at this meeting in Vancouver and will you provide proof of your claim?

        • Roger Bird

          I support GreenWin’s implication that Bruce Fast is an honest person.

      • Lukedc

        Just wait for NI week.
        Plain and simple.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Yes, Defkalion Spectrometers, engineered by Hitachi, but sold by Defkalion salesmen/scientists.

    • captain

      Read just now the report.

      My opinion about Defkalion is that in some way DGT has stolen the ‘secret’ of Rossi’s reactor, like it or not.
      The countinuous DGT delays in having a convincing working prototype publicly tested and/or having it approved by other countries outside US (obviously) is suspicious in some way.

      IMO Defkalion fears to put it on the market or sell his knowhow to third parties because of expected Rossi claims on his IP rights.

      I’d be pleased, anyhow, to see soon on the market a real strong competitor of Rossi’s e-cats.

      • what is your evidence.

        I agree that probably Defkalion have found how Rossi was working. It is not a crime.

        Their reactor is very different, and based on others ideas than Rossi. Do you see plasma in Rossi? Did you notice their discussion on crystallography, about Ni foam, about KCO3 catalyst no more used ?
        Even if Defkalion seems to know some key point of Rossi technology, they also seems to use that knowledge not to copy, but to stay away. Moreover it is not even sure that Rossi have invented anything, otherwise he would use have created a real patent, and not an empty patent that protect no real data.
        I feel probable that rossi, just used old results, and I respect that, because he seems to have done a great job on the shoulders of others LENR dwarfs.

        Defkalion have found another way, like Brillouin.It is clear from what everybody said, including Defkalion, Rossi and Stremmenos.

        • Peter Roe

          As you say, Defkalion seem to have avoided Rossi’s exact system, presumably to avoid accusations of IP infringement. Their use of parallel technology may indicate a better understanding of the heat producing process, as they would have needed this in order to find alternative ways of doing things.

          It’s pretty clear that they started from the same point (stolen IP) but have deliberately evolved their devices along different lines. Hopefully there are many different ways of generating ‘anomolous’ heat from metals and H2, and this will allow others to get into the game without endless legal battles.

        • captain

          U know how USPTO is treating matters concerning LENR?
          For US patents U must submit your requests to them…
          U know about the 24 yrs HEAVYWATERGATE coverup, or not?

          Anyway Rossi has been capable to do, practically, what no one else has done before: he has shown (and he sells) his products.

          And from this point of view, as i’ve said more than once, give Rossi what belongs to Rossi, give Piantelli what belongs to Piantelli… a.s.o.

          Yeah, i’ve read what made public by Defkalion, too words, ideas, intentions, a new R&D center in Italy, but practically so far nothing available to a int.l 3rd party test as done by Rossi.

          I don’t mean that there’s only the Rossi’s way to get a big amount of energy thru LENR: Rossi is producing that at least from almost 4 years now…
          I don’t care if Rossi’s ‘secret’ is coming from other italian scientists’ team working at least two decades on that goal: he has done and presented what no one else has been capable to do before him.

          Rossi is a self-made scientist and he has been successful in his reactor also by believing in what others thought to be impossible, going against the known physics rules.
          And before Rossi’s invention, Defkalion was not yet born.

          It’s possible that in the future DGT will find its way to have a LENR working device on the market: we’ll see then Rossi’s move.

    • Peter Roe

      At face value, an exceptionally useful development. Such a precedent will make it much more difficult for governments with agendas (e.g., UK, France) to use ‘safety’ objections to attempt to block introduction of CF.

      As you say, it would be v. interesting to know the scientific basis of this judgement – or perhaps it is a pragmatic assessement. Either way, a significant milestone.

  • Linda

    Ok, its the 15th, so where are the test results?

  • artefact

    probably OT

    Gold sees biggest price drop in more than a year


    • Andre Blum

      OT indeed. If we drag in topics like this, we can start a press agency.

      • artefact

        You are right for now. I expect these topics will become relevant in the future after confirmation though.

        • Stanny Demesmaker

          What’s the relevance of the gold price in regard of LENR?

          • Veblin

            Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENRs) Neutron-catalyzed LENR transmutations produce Gold from Tungsten.

          • artefact

            exactly that + I expect the goldprice to go down if there is a validation accepted by the world in the future (gold=crisis currency).

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Quotes from the site above: If transmutation from Tungsten to gold is possible, “If it can be scaled up, if production costs can be reduced”, if, if, if……….then “LENR might compete with conventional mining within 10-15 years.”

            Since when do our markets think more than one quarter ahead?

  • Bruno

    “Preliminary” because the energy could only be measured in form of radiation, not calorimetrically (eg submerged in water), which would had given a detailed measurement. But this is still a strong indication.”

    What does this mean? They weren’t allowed to test for excess heat? Am I the only one to whom this doesn’t make sense? Isn’t excess heat the whole idea?

    • It means that they were out to measuring excess heat, but with a different technique which is in principle not as accurate as good water calorimetry (but can still be reasonably accurate if done carefully). The radiation refers to infrared radiation emitted by the surface of the reactor, similarly to the Penon report. If the COP is anywhere near as high as claimed, all calorimetric techniques (when done properly) would be expected to give an uncertainty level which is much less than the excess heat.

      • Bob

        That would also account for the repeat tests if the COP was low. It would be very difficult to prove a positive COP by this method if the COP is low. It would simply be lost in the significant percentage experimental error inherent in the measurement of radiated heat. If the COP is low and the test was done by the measurement of radiated heat I think they will have a hard time finding any reputable body to publish such a report as a definitive proof of the technology.

        • Redford

          The september report had a cop>11. I think “low” is not on the table anymore. Either it’s falsification, either it’s very high.

          • Bob

            Yes but the preliminary reports on the original ecat mentioned a COP of 200 with a power output of 10KW or more. It soon settled down to a COP of 6 but even that is still unproven.

  • artefact

    In Italian (cannot post translation link from here):
    From IBtimes.com

    Cold Fusion reactor explodes, where are the independent tests promised by Rossi?


    • Luca Salvarani

      Don’t translate it, it would be a loss of time: there are no news in it!

      • artefact


  • Torbjörn

    Examination procedure 19.10.2012 Despatch of a communication from the examining division (Time limit: M06)


    4 days left…

    • artefact

      Do you think the 3rd party test is part of the examination procedure? If it is the report could be published in few days.

      • Torbjörn

        I think it was Rossis intention to have a 3rd party report in time to please the patent office.

        • dsm

          The hot cat claimed to be the device currently being ‘tested’ & 3rd party validated, is not the same device as described in the EPO patent.

          To gain a patent for the claimed ‘hot cat’ requires a new patent application.

          Patent offices do not allow the existing patent claims to be altered such that a different ‘device’ is substituted. That would cause mayhem in the patent system.


          • Peter Roe

            That is right – there can’t be a connection between the ‘third party tests’ and any known patent application by Rossi. In any case this suggestion doesn’t accord with Rossi’s assertion that the testers are acting off their own bat, i.e., are ‘indipendent’ as he continues to spell the word.

    • LOL, anyone can submit a “third party observation”? even anonymously…

      That makes a place for several jokes…


  • Torbjörn

    About the rumor:

    The long-term test is supposed to have been completed fairly recently according to “osunt1”.


  • GreenWin

    Thomas Kuhn’s “Structure of a Scientific Revolution:”

    1) The existing paradigm encounters an anomaly (an inexplicable observation) F&P 1989.

    2) Initially the anomaly is ignored or rejected (1990-2011)

    3) People try to explain the anomaly within the existing paradigm (LENR’s 25+ theories)

    4) A new paradigm is proposed in which the anomaly is resolved. (NASA W-L theory, Kim BEC, Ikegami chemonuclear, etc)

    5) Establishment (and sceptics) reject proposal, ridicule the proponents (since 1989.)

    6) New paradigm is accepted as it accounts for new observations (2013-2014.)

    The Copernican, Kepler, Galilean “revolution” took 100+ years to complete. http://phys.org/news/2013-02-nuclear-reactor-basement.html

    • georgehants

      One day science will grow-up and do science by just following the Evidence.

      • Hampus

        For that to happen humans have to become totally unattached to research and nobody can be that objective. Researchers care about there life and carrier, as do all humans. We are emotial and well human. All we can do is to build a new power structure. For example do not concentrate the power to the few professors and bosses on the top of the pyramid. We also really have to reorganize how our money is being handled, now a few persons and companies control most of the money and therefor control what to research and set the whole agenda for our society’s progress.

        • georgehants

          Hampus, now I would have thought that following Evidence would be called “Research” and that would be the only thing Science is for.
          You say —- “nobody can be that objective.”
          What a strange statement, I thought the whole point of science was to be “objective,” open-minded, unbiased and competent.
          Nothing else.
          I think until science stops following crazy “opinions” and religious like dictates on anything and just does it’s job, which is to follow Evidence, then they will remain in this current comedy, where most are rightly perceived as non-thinking, incompetent followers of establishment Dogma.
          May I ask ,are you saying sciences handling of Cold Fusion etc. makes you happy.

    • Claes

      Yeah, but if you had been a scientist you would have known that 99.99% of all bold new ideas that people come up with are crackpot ideas. Paradigm shifts are rare not only because science is conservative, it is mainly because it’s quite hard to find such new perspectives on important things.

      So in summary – being an underdog doesn’t make you a Galileo. You have to be right also. That little clause at the end tends to be forgotten by proscpective Galileos and their followers.

      Maybe LENR “is right”, then its day will come soon according to above scheme.

      • GreenWin

        LENR is “right” – according to the United States Patent & Trademark Office. The emergence of cold fusion from overt suppression will highlight the many other energy applications likewise inhibited.

        Fortunately, for those who have committed this type suppression – they will be held responsible for their actions.

  • stuey81

    its over halfway thru the 16th here in australia, no new news posted? admin, you busy with somthing eles? or is it silent out there? (i.e , nothing to report/speculate on?)

    • Peter Roe

      Stuey, I don’t think that stamping your foot and pouting is going to move things on much.

  • pg

    e-day +1

  • Alex

    Defkalion not calling it LENR. Now calling it HENI, and claims it is not nuclear.

    • Alex

      Actually, the website has a load of new information and business plans spelled out in greater detail.

      • Lukedc

        The website has been like that for a while.

      • Omega Z


        I See A Lawsuit.

        Apple will have a field day with Defkalion & their Apple at the top of their Website.

    • Peter Roe

      Losing the word ‘nuclear’ is a good idea, but HENI is a bit clunky, and the word ‘nuclei’ will probably be read as nuclear anyway by half the population.

      • Karl

        Agree, it seems to be really hard to come up with an agreeable acronym that relate to the actual process or processes at least as there is not any agreed theoretical explanation. No wonder it is a difficult task, a new or revised physical theory may even be needed to fully grasp it with a proper naming. In the meantime, we may have to accept to use the new fire and live under a similar philosophy as the caveman did for thousands of years to comfort his life with the old fire.

        • Peter Roe

          I still like ‘cold fusion’, but if transmutation is proven at some point then perhaps ‘low energy fusion’ or LEF might be sufficiently generic, while avoiding the N word.

          • racribeiro


    • Alan DeAngelis

      No gamma rays or neutrons. Do they see any isotopic shifts in nickel when they use pure isotopes of nickel?
      H(1) + Ni(62) > Cu(63)* Step1
      H(1) + Cu(63)* > Ni(60) + He(4) Step 2
      Over all
      2 H(1) + Ni(62) > Ni(60) + He(4) 9.87 MeV

      H(1) + Ni(64) > Cu(65)* Step1
      H(1) + Cu(65)* > Ni(62) + He(4) Step 2
      Over all
      2 H(1) + Ni(64) > Ni(62) + He(4) 11.8 MeV

      • Peter Roe

        Rossi’s use of both boron and lead shielding seems to imply production of both neutrons and gamma, and the GEC GeNiE reactor supposedly produces an intense neutron flux, so there may be a whole zoo of ‘LENR’ pathways that could be utilised for different purposes.

  • Redford

    Amazing to see that some people here reallu considered that mid April vague forecast. Not only was it presented with “hopefully”, but it was also very unrealistic for anyone knowing about publication process.

    I do think something will come out. I even think it can be this year. But we’re speaking highly sensible publication. There’s no chance of this to go without extra cautious peer review. Those things take time. I am always puzzled Rossi seems to ignore this but for one he rather behaves like someone pressed to proove himself rather than seeking to buy time. Because casual publications pace would have provide him that easily if he had just presented realistic expectations regarding this.

    • Omega Z


      I’ve stated multiple times that I don’t expect the report till June or July at the earliest. Just a Gift to us if it happens sooner.

      As for Rossi, He did imply that Mid April would be the Earliest. Many read to much into some of Rossi’s statements. Rossi was also just Repeating what was told to him by One of the People involved with the testing. Had It been ME- I’d have thrown in more leeway. Or Said Nothing at all other then the Tests were Completed.

      Personally, I think Rossi on occasion lets his enthusiasm get the better of him. He just can’t help himself.

  • Fredrik

    It seems that the swedish (part gouvernmental) energy research association “Elforsk” has commisioned the testing, according ro Osunt. http://osunt.se/e-cat-nya-rykten-del-2/
    Very interesting!