Swedish Energy R&D Organization Elforsk Fund Study of E-Cat [Updated]

Elsforsk, an energy R&D organization established by utilities and manufacturers in Sweden has published a report in which includes details of a research program devoted to the study of E-Cat technology with a view to considering its use in Swedish energy production.

Financials on page 53 of the report shows that in 2012, 200,000 Swedish Krona (about 23,000 Euros) was budgeted for the study, and in each of the next three years 2,000,000 Krona is budgeted for the study.

The following excerpt is an English translation of page 51 in the report which describes the research program:

Energy catalyst – (Rossi, E-cat) – in-depth review Goals:

Ever since Fleichman and Pons claimed fusion in palladium in 1989 cold fusion has been controversial. Several groups have since been able to view heat production in various experiments which can be indicative of fusion. The inventor of energy catalyst, “E-Cat”, is the engineer Andrea Rossi. The new invention is that it produces enough heat for practical purposes, by a so far unexplained process. Demonstrations have been shown at various units with power 10 kW. Heat output is many times greater than what can be achieved with conventional combustion reactions. The known components include nickel in powder and hydrogen. The goal of Elforsk’s project is to:

    • Support scientifically conducted studies that analyze whether energy catalyst E-Cat gives off the heating effect as stated in various demonstrations
    • Support the attempt to determine the process that can cause heat generation and how the variation of different parameters can influence and analyse possible risks or other adverse effects
    • Analyze the importance of the process (if it works) for future electricity and heat production.

Measurements of the thermal power/heat production is carried out and if the results are “notable” begin analysis of underlying processes. Based on the results of these works – if there is reason to go on — in co-operation with various energy experts studies of future concepts for the production of electricity and heat as well as analyses of the impact of energy catalyst can have on the future energy production.

We know that Andrea Rossi has some good and supportive connections in Sweden. Vatenfall, the largest Swedish utility, is one of the founders of the Elforsk organization, and have already stated publicly that they are already studying the E-Cat. Whether this research activity has any connection with the expected 3rd party report remains to be seen, but it seems that Sweden may be a pioneering country in the use of E-Cat technology. In a comment on the JONP recently, Andrea Rossi said, “in Europe our strategy in the short term is a development mainly in Sweden, where we are putting strong bases.”


Another comment by Andrea Rossi today on the Swedish connection:

“In Sweden with our partners of Hydrofusion we are organizing a local production of plants to sell heat to centralized distributors of thermal energy. The particular economic and metheorologic conditions of Sweden makes this Nation particularly fit for our technology.”


Rossi talks about third party testing taking place in Ferrara, Italy:

“Thank you for your omage to Ferrara: it is a jewel town, dense of History and Art, home of an important University, where we have chosen to put our R&D Center, and where have been made series of tests, among which the Third Party Indipendent test that probably will pass to the History, whatever its content, because it has been the first third party indipendent test run for 120 straight hours.”

Note that here Rossi mentions the first independent 120 hour test being in Ferrara — he has said recently (I believe) that there was a subsequent 120 hour test carried out which may have been in some other location.


In response to a question about this Elforsk study Rossi said today:

Thank you for your interesting question-information. We do not have contacts with this Laboratory and consequently I have not information about their work, nor I am making any work with them. In any case, I am honoured to read that there are Laboratories that are studying our work.

  • Eric Sodden

    Hoorah for Rossi! and bravo for Sweden! Perhaps this is yet another single step, but perhaps very much more. And I think this is an important step especially in this otherwise quiet interlude. My best wishes and hopes to you.

    • psi

      +1. Thanks to Bjorn for the background details. This is indeed encouraging.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    April 23rd, 2013 at 9:02 AM
    Dear Jan.Gustavsson:
    In Sweden with our partners of Hydrofusion we are organizing a local production of plants to sell heat to centralized distributors of thermal energy. The particular economic and metheorologic conditions of Sweden makes this Nation particularly fit for our technology.
    Warm Regards,

    • Hampus

      Many swedish towns have district heating. So the infrastructure of many thousands of miles of hot water pipes is already payed for and built. It would be so easy and cheap to buy some ecats and just connect it to the already built infrastructure.

      When there is a third party report I will personally go to my towns mayor and demand an ecat so we can save millions of dollars in spending.

    • Patrik

      There are a lot of comments and questions on the Hydrofusion activities and also address. No one from Hydrofusion has tried to make things clear. Strange.

      And one has to remember that district heating plants often are in the size of tens of MW.

      • Hampus

        District heating are often very large yes, but it would not hurt to have one or two megawatt ecats run everyday and then use the burning of wood/oil/coal just in the rush hours.

        E-Cats as the base heating and other heating for peak hours.

        • Patrik

          The base supply in district heating is for example heat pumps and garbage (MSW) combustion. It is often dscribed on the district heating company website

    • Patrik

      I wonder if that business model is used in Swedish district heating systems. Normally it is the same comapny that produces and sells the thermal energy.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    April 23rd, 2013 at 9:16 AM
    Dear Robert Curto:
    Thank you for your omage to Ferrara: it is a jewel town, dense of History and Art, home of an important University, where we have chosen to put our R&D Center, and where have been made series of tests, among which the Third Party Indipendent test that probably will pass to the History, whatever its content, because it has been the first third party indipendent test run for 120 straight hours.
    Warm Regards,

  • Chris the 2nd

    This is how it should be done, it doesn’t matter if it conforms to known physics. It doesn’t matter if the inventor is odd.

    Does it work? Yes/No

    Work out why/Ignore

    Until you’ve established this you are being intellectually dishonest in ignoring anything. Especially from a position of authority.

    • psi

      Nice synopsis.

      • Warthog


  • Joseph Fine

    ELFORSK means Electrical/Electricity Research.

    ELFOR means electricity and FORSK is equivalent to Forschung in German which is Research.

    — Joseph

    • LB

      Hi Joseph maybe you meant
      El is shorthand for electricity
      Forsk is a “mutilated” form of forskning=research
      Put together to form the company name Elforsk wich is short and easily understood by swedes what they are doing.

      As a native of this cold country I just wanted to clearify 🙂

      • Hampus

        Thats correct. El = electricity and Forsk = research

        • Joseph Fine

          LB and Hampus,

          Thanks for the clarification.

          Now, we wait to see the Third Party report.

          — Joseph

        • Patrik

          There is also a Elforsk organisation in Denmark…..no formal connections though

  • Roger Bird

    200,000 kronas = $30,176.37 and thus 2,000,000 kronas = $301,763.70. $30,176.37 is exploratory. $301,763.70 is much more serious money.

    • Patrik

      But no desicion on more than the first SEK 200,000 for the prestudy according to the 2013 program dated August last year

  • Roger Bird

    It would seem that if an entire nation as strong as Sweden (which resisted successfully even the Nazis) is working on LENR, then it’s future is assured. When Sweden is powering itself for pennies on the benjamin, then no one will be able to deny it or stop it.

    • Yeah, and maybe we’ll get free love Swedish-style, too. Sweden is the architect of the true welfare state, and while it has done well in making it work, it hasn’t ever been successfully exported. I’m afraid the E-Cat developed there may meet the same fate. America is the cauldron, the crucible, for new science, and it is here – not Sweden or anywhere else – where the tests and challenges must be done and met.

      • Roger Bird

        I am not talking about “new science” development. I am talking about credibility. If an entire nation, which would freeze to death without heat, manages to heat itself on pennies on the benjamin, then LENR would have tremendous credibility. It would also give Sweden a huge advantage industrially.

        The reason that the welfare state works in Sweden is that they have a more homogeneous society than the USA and much fewer children born out of wedlock.

        • captain


          I am not talking about “new science” development. I am talking about credibility. If an entire nation, which would freeze to death without heat,….

          Sweden is Sweden and cold weather is cold weather: in Sweden they capture even the human heat, in an airport, to produce energy… and this year they have the need to import approx. 650,000 tons of garbage waste to produce useful energy for their country…

          Heat is heat, u’re right RB.

      • Andre Blum

        the welfare state was successfully exported, to the Netherlands, among others. So maybe the problem is on the importing side?

        • Peter Roe


      • HAAH
        Please define “Free Love Swedish-Style”

        • Peter Roe

          I’m sure there must be books…

      • Hampus

        @ Joe, There have been many discoveries made in USA but to say that all “most be made there” is just wrong. There are plenty of intelligent and resourceful people everywhere in the world. I could give you a list of inventions made by swedes but that would be to long for this comment section.

        • Roger Bird

          And so many elements are named after Swedish things, like villages, etc.

          • Hampus

            Funny fact, my grand grand grand grand father was the leader for the kobolt mine were Nickel was discovered. The Kobolt mine in the village of Los within the province of Ljusdal (where I come from).

          • Patrik

            You mean like Yttrium? It is funny that tungsten (heavy stone in Swedish) is named Wolfram in Swedish

    • Sverre Haslund

      Please let me correct you. Sweden was neutral during WW2 and let the nazis use their rail and transport system to bring troops,weapons and supplies into occupied Norway.

      • Hampus

        Please let me correct that. Sweden allowed one platon of Germans to go from Oslo to Finland, Germany needed there men because of operation Barbarossa. Per Albin Hansson (then prime minister) allowed this to happen because he was afraid Germany would take Sweden if we didn’t comply. We did it to stay independent and to help Finland get revenge on Soviet.

        • Erik

          Well, it was a bit more than “one platon”. If wikipedia is correct it was more like 2 million soldier trips and 100 000 train cars of goods during 1940-1943.

      • Roger Bird

        When I say resist, I mean not being overrun by the armies of darkness. I know that Sweden did not fight the Nazis. But Hitler did not invade Sweden because every single, solitary adult Swede had a gun, and Sweden had no traitors within their ranks. Everyone was on the same page, knowing what evil the Nazis were.

  • KD

    Dear Dott. Rossi,
    Things are quiet and I’m getting bored..why don’t you get us something to chew on, like a picture of the soon to be shipped 1MW plant.
    With best regards,

    Andrea Rossi
    Dear Kari:
    he,he,he…OK, we will publish the photos of the delivery we will make on the 30st of April, all right?
    Warm Regards,

    • Hampus

      That sounds like a promise he cant back down from

      • Roger Bird

        He can only back down on the testing promise and now this promise if we let him. And we might let him if we forget. Perhaps because all us LENR fans are so old we tend to forget; we need to not forget, otherwise he will be able to back down. And this promise has a date.

        • Omega Z


          Remind me, What are we discussing again.
          They say memory is the 1st to go.
          I Think. I’m not sure, I can’t remember.

          • Roger Bird

            Be sure to take your coconut oil!

      • Peter Roe

        This is the second time AR has made this promise. The first was a few weeks back when he replied “Why not” to the suggestion of providing a photo of the delivery taking place. Whether we see anything more than a smallish boiler of some kind (or worse, a crate) sitting on an artic trailer or dangling from a crane is another matter, but it should at least provide something to talk about.

  • georgehants

    Scientific Method / Science & Exploration
    IBM’s solar tech is 80% efficient thanks to supercomputer know-how
    Water that cools photovoltaics gets used for other purposes, upping efficiency.
    By borrowing cooling systems used in its supercomputers, IBM Research claims it can dramatically increase the overall efficiency of concentrated photovoltaic solar power from 30 to 80 percent.

    • GreenWin

      Actually looks like they are using typical solar hot water plumbing to cool the PV panels. Most PV needs no water cooling, but combining “cooling” with water heating gets this a higher efficiency rating.

      There is still the annoyance of the sun setting each and every night for approximately 1/3 day.

  • LCD

    I’m sorry I don’t read Swedish.

    Did they actually test anything?

    • Patrik

      No, they didn’t test anything. When I read the Elforsk program there is 200,000 Swedish crowns for a study of the e-cat, assessing scientific investigations made by others. The budget for 2013 and onwards are suggestions and no decisions made concerning actual funding. Thats why the numbers are in italics. Further funding is only possible if the first prestudy finds anything remarkable and that can be scientifically verified. No report is yet published from the prestudy as far as I can se in the publication list.

      • Hampus

        So if the third party report is positive they will spend the extra 2 million krona on it?

        • Patrik

          Maybe, if the the third party report is good enough in a scientific way. I read somewhere that the third party test were done on a “black bos”…..and if so….that is not good enough

          • Roger Bird

            I presume that you meant to say “black box”.

            I don’t see why it wouldn’t be scientific if it is done on a “black box”. Science is a method. It does not require explanations, otherwise we would be in trouble with gravity, the electromagnetic force, the strong nuclear force, consciousness, justice, love, etc. Those all can’t be dissected and understood, but they work just fine.

          • Patrik

            I think that it cannot be taken seriously if you test something, and cannot even describe the hardware in the “black box”. So, a minimum requirement would be a picture, drawing or similar to describe the appliance. Assume that you know something in a “black box” is an engine, but you don’t know if it has a diesel or otto process. How would you interpret emission or efficincy data? Is it a lousy diesel engine or an excellent otto engine?

          • Roger Bird

            Patrik, that does not make sense. If the e-cat violates the KNOWN laws of physics and proves to be a wildly efficient heater, how that happens may be very interesting, but it is not needed to prove that the E-Cat is a major breakthrough.

          • captain

            Yeah, test done on a small ‘black box’ e-cat reactor, running continuously for 120 hours (5 days).

            Words are words, but heat is heat, as Rossi would say.

  • georgehants

    April 23rd, 2013 at 9:42 AM
    Mr. Rossi
    I hope this finds you well.
    It is being reported here that Elforsk, a Swedish research organization, has designated money for the study of the E-Cat. Are you able to discuss anything about your work with Elforsk? Were the third party testers working for Elforsk?
    Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
    Andrea Rossi
    April 23rd, 2013 at 10:00 AM
    Dear Brian:
    Thank you for your interesting question-information. We do not have contacts with this Laboratory and consequently I have not information about their work, nor I am making any work with them. In any case, I am honoured to read that there are Laboratories that are studying our work.
    Warm Regards,

  • Björn

    The interesting thing about this is the fact that Elforsk is a research institute that is owned by 175 of the biggest Swedish companies in the electricity business, including Vattenfall.
    Decisions about what to research on must be taken in agreement with all of these companies

    From Elfork´s website:
    “Cooperation between electricity companies, manufacturing companies and public authorities is important for work within Elforsk. There are 800 places on Elforsk’s advisory and decision-making bodies. These places are occupied by experts from electricity companies, manufacturing industries, public authorities and other interested parties. Programme teams within Elforsk draw up the strategic approach for the programme area in question. New R&D programmes are launched when interested parties decide on funding based on offers from Elforsk. Under the agreed programme, the interested parties then decide how funding should be employed for specific activities during the programme. A key task for Elforsk’s staff is to ensure that decisions are implemented in time and with the required quality. Another, equally important task is, together with interested parties, to formulate new research programmes and implement the results from these so that they are of benefit. This approach creates effective cooperation between business and industry, society and the academic community.”
    This means that there are many companies taking part in the decisions on what research programmes Elforsk will undertake.
    This also means that there is a big interest in and awareness of Rossis Ecat in these Swedish companies..
    I find this very encouraging.

    • GreenWin

      This would be a good organization to build a district heat and electric generation model with e-cat. Since district heating is already in place, the 30-35% heat used to boil water for a steam turbine (i.e. adding a boiler/turbine component) seems fairly straight forward.

      With the Edison Electric Inst. report strongly advocating utilities prepare for Distributed Energy Resources (DERs) – Elforsk could take the next step in realigning district CHP systems in Sweden. Nice work.

      • Roger Bird

        Rather than evil minions trying to squash Rossi because of their evil greed, it sounds more like a large group of people trying to promote LENR for public and environmental benefit. I never really believed that garbage about evil minions controlling the world. Most people act in their best interests. Some people act in the interests of others. And a very few people act with evil intent.

    • Roger Bird

      This also sounds extremely encouraging. I bet that they started as soon as those Swedish scientists saw Rossi’s demonstrations and rushed back to Sweden with the news.

    • daniel maris

      I agree – this is one of the most important developmetns for a long time.

    • captain

      Thanks Björn, good info!
      Should the things go OK, Sweden could really be the first country to adopt officially Rossi’s e-cat LENR. Words are words, but heat is heat and next winter is approaching 😉

      And in the states…USPTO… think what u like.

  • timycelyn

    Just listening to the news, I learn that the pre-construction planning project for Hinckley C new PWR fission power station in Somerset is being scaled down with ‘hundreds of redundancies’ due to difficulties in agreeing a deal that would underwrite the price they would get for the electricity.

    Now I don’t have a clue about the detail, to what extent the relevant department in HMG has it’s hand on these stalled negotiations but the timing of this deadlock is interesting. A coincidence (we are starting to get rather a lot of them now) or another straw in the wind..??

    • Peter Roe

      The cost of the project has escalated by another 20% or so in the last year, mainly due to new backup/safety requirements following an EC Fukushima review, plus some fairly fundamental problems with the pathfinder EPR reactors being built in France and Finland. So EDF now want even more money guaranteed to them (paid for by all UK consumers of course). The govt. negotiators are not happy with this as the additional costs would be painful, very hard to justify, and will lose them millions of votes.

      The general feeling in the area is that EDF is trying to put pressure on the govt. by winding down the ‘preparatory’ works (which they started without planning permission anyway) in a ‘do or die’ piece of brinkmanship. Sort of a grown-up playground foot stomping exercise with red faces all round. Hopefully they really will go away and take their ball with them (unfortunately leaving tens of acres of beautiful farmland and woodland permanently ruined).

      • timycelyn

        Thanks Peter, I was sure you’d have the detail.

        It’s an odd “Straws in the wind” feeling though, isn’t it? These pages have been littered in the last few months with a ever lengthening list of moves – all independent and so on – that all tend to lie in one direction. Where ‘Old energy’ still has big plans for the future, it all seems to be momentum rather than new initiatives from the established energy businesses.

        Where are the major new announcements -in say the last 12 months – about huge new fission investments, about major commitments to open up discovered, but harder to get at oilfields? They are there, I assume, but compared to the way the announcements of divestment, pullout, refocusing, delay for further study and so on keep rolling in, I get the feeling for a strong bias in the balance of news. A feeling for tectonic plates slowly shifting….

        • Yes, I read that EDF were looking for about £100 per MW/hr guaranteed by the UK government for 40 years! It sort of takes the ‘venture’ out of venture capital. When you can hold a government to ransom to this extent, you don’t have to bother about R&D. Share holders love that kind of stability. I agree about the straws in the wind feeling though. There’s a lot of serious hedging going on. It’s almost like the big multi nationals are predicting some kind of destabilising future in their crystal balls. Snr Rossi and the rat cat will ensure that they are going to have to work for their money.

          • Omega Z

            These Guarantees started with Wind & Solar.
            Now Everyone wants a piece of that Pie.

            Time to whip some capitalism Reality on them.
            You Take the Risks that you will make a profit.

            If the State takes the Risk, then they should receive any obtained Profits.

        • Peter Roe


          I think that this development actually may be a ‘straw in the wind’ as you suggest. EDF will of course be aware of CF and Rossi’s hot cat, and so they’ll know that the only chance of making a fat profit from Hinkley C is to get a non-redeemable financial agreement from HMG that will ensure this.

          But the new factor is that more widespread knowledge of working CF now seems to be imminent (perhaps not so close as some think, but certainly in months not years) so they now have only limited time to get this deal stitched up. Hence the desperate measures – HMG will either fold and concede, or stop talking. Either way the issue will be resolved (they think – there are more challenges being prepared if govt. concedes to the blackmail).

          Of course, all this would be completely unneccessary if our m*ronic leaders hadn’t signed up to cra zy agreements that meant that our coal-fired generating capacity would be taken down in a year or two, all on the basis of a falsified scare.

          Mmm – continuing production of some harmless CO2 in the atmosphere from existing plant — or ongoing radioactive contamination all along the fuel production line and locally, incredibly expensive electricity (double present prices), being beholden to a foreign company for our electricity, ever-present danger, and tons of incredibly dangerous waste to be stored for millennia…

          Tricky one that. Makes you wonder why Cameron is even considering new nuclear – let alone fixing and promoting it.

      • atanguy

        “leaving tens of acres of beautiful farmland and woodland permanently ruined”
        Better than building this EPR monster…
        Please guys don’t buy it! (I’m French)

  • Roger Bird

    Today was the coldest morning in Colorado Springs for the past one hundred and thirty nine freaking years. I say, let the global warming begin. It was 17 degrees, today, on April 23rd, and it was just snowing (not much) as I came home at noon from Natural Grocers. We tied for the coldest morning EVER about 10 days ago. I know, it doesn’t prove that global warm is not happening. This also means that Hurricane Sandy does not prove that global warming is happening.

    But the biggest problem is that the globe warms and cools, but whether human beings are causing it to happen is still an open question. It is not settled science. There is no such thing as settled science. “Settled science” is an oxymoron believed in by morons with the sense of an ox who want to believe in anthropogenic global warming in order (1) to push their environmental agenda and (2) to share their existential anxiety with other people .

    • marc Irvin

      I am not a scientist. Forgive me if you already know this definitively. If you do not it bares noting. Global warming is not an linear affect. It is an average affect, that will be accompanied by extreme shifts in temperatures. The fact that an area gets hotter can lead to other areas being colder. In the long run deserts can cool and poles melt. We should not look at any individual periods, locations, nor atmospherics.

      • Roger Bird

        We should also not ignore other theories and lend too much credence to people who tell lies, like the email scandal group at Penn State and East Anglia, Michael Mann that those darling liars. There is massively more H2O above ground than there is CO2. I am going to make a wild guess and say that there is more times H2O than CO2 above ground than there are dollars in the US national debt. And we know from personal experience that H2O has a very high specific heat. Yet all of their climate models ignore H2O. So why should we believe climate models, which, I am going guess, also ignore increased plant growth and CO2 absorption by the oceans and lakes.

        They Sun hypothesis make much more sense to me.

        • Fibb

          you are deluded. climate scientists aren’t lying. the jet stream is acting crazy because we broke the arctic (loss of sea ice). It’s more often bringing cold air down from the north and weather is becoming more “stuck” as well.

          • Dante Alighieri


          • Grek

            You are just reporting what you heard in the news. Try to think a bit freely like Roger did. Science is when you have proven a hypotheis. The climate hypothesis takes decades to prove or disprove, so it is not yet science.

          • Roger Bird

            Oooh, an ad hominem argument: “Roger is deluded.” And then saying that scientists don’t lie, as though scientists were morally superior to the rest of us. But, of course they are morally superior to the rest of us: They’re scientists, priests of the glorious new Science Religion. And you say this despite the emails that prove that they diddled with the evidence, despite the fact that IPCC is back peddling like crazy on many of their pronouncements, despite the fact that 40 years ago scientists were fretting about global cooling: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/carolplattliebau/2013/04/22/a-day-based-on-misplaced-fears-n1575536 Despite the fact that the hockey stick graph has been quietly removed from the discussion.

            I remember both the global cooling hysteria and the hockey stick graph. The problem with older people is that they have longer memories. Perhaps this is why they tend to be conservative. Climates change, irrespective of whether there is human generated CO2 pouring into the atmosphere or not. The only questions are does that much CO2 going to make much difference and can plant growth keep up with the CO2 increase.

    • Peterem

      Genetically reproduced clones of ancient trees planted in California

      E-cats and redwoods. Solutions?

  • Roger Bird

    So, I’m am driving past the US Air Force Academy this morning, and what do I see, but acres and acres of solar panels. I guess the Air Force doesn’t talk much with the Navy.

  • Sanjeev

    Although its not totally clear, can we say that the third part test was done at university of Ferrara by their physics faculty may be?


    • LCD

      who knows what Rossi means. He’s quirky and there is a language barrier.

      • robiD

        Come on, it’s pretty clear that the sentence’s subject is “Ferrara” and not “the university of Ferrara”.

  • Robbie

    Study into LENR is great and could prove to be a real winner however Rossi seems to be another story all together. Rossi has a very well developed track record. For my money the greater the distance between Rossi and any serious and honest development the better.

    • Roger Bird

      I don’t feel this way at all. In the late 1960’s, I used illegal drugs. In 1968 I entered myself voluntarily into a mental hospital with desperately deep depression and paranoia. So, should you think that I am going to be a screw-up and a burden for the rest of my life? Will you want to sell your house and move away if you discover that I am living next to you? Some people actually get stronger and better and more ethical and wiser from being screw-ups.

      • daniel maris

        Yes, Rossi’s track record always has to measured against the involvement of serious physicists from Bologna University.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Which Rossi are we talking about? Are we talking about the Rossi whose herculean struggle just saved the human race?

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander


  • GreenWin

    Interesting to note that Korea’s Doosan Group is now in exclusive negotiations with Italy’s Finmeccanica to purchase Ansaldo Energia – the power generating jewel of the defense giant. Ansaldo has several ties to LENR and specifically the e-cat 1MW demos, having sent a Senior Adviser to both NI Week and ICCF17 conference.

    “Doosan Established in 1962, Doosan Heavy Industries & Construction has led the development in the thermal power plant, nuclear power plant, seawater desalination plant, in the Middle East, Asia, Europe and North America with a total of $9.6 billion in 2012 revenue. Doosan has built over 400 nuclear, thermal and combined-cycle power plants. And Doosan is one of the few companies in the world that has proprietary technologies for all three major desalination types: Multi Stage Flash (MSF), Multi Effect Distillation (MED) and Reverse Osmosis (RO).”

    • GreenWin

      I should add IMO desalination is the one energy application that will make the most difference in alleviating global poverty, disease, and malnutrition.

  • pg


  • FlanObrien

    Are Google Stupid?

    Google Invests $1 Billion in Renewable Energy

    Including $200m alone was spent on a wind farm in Texas.

    Google is able to attract some of the best minds on the planet. Why do they dismiss pass Rossi by?

    • Omega Z


      It’s all in the details. Corporate Subsidies for Green Energy.

      Depending on when Project Construction Started, They can obtain 1/3 of their investments Back. Energy Production will be paid for (Used or Not) & may even include Corporate Income Tax Exemptions on those earnings.

      Another note- If LENR power plants come to market Now, Existing power plants wont be replaced by (LENR Power Plants) until their Life Cycle is met or exceeded.
      This is a Positive for the U.S. as about 75% of our existing power plants meet this criteria.

    • If you ask me, Google is NOT stupid just because they diversify their energy investments.

      I love Google!
      There, I said it!!!


      • Brad Arnold

        Google is like 99.9 percent of the population – when they hear about LENR, the first thing they do is go to Wikipedia, which calls it a “pathological science.” As Rossi says: the time for talking is over – the market will decide.

        That being said, LENR is so far superior to any other clean energy I know of that people will be forced to switch to it to stay competitive. Sorry, but wind, solar, and even fission or hydro are all so far behind that they will be quickly made obsolete. The only conceivable investment that might be re-used is the steam turbines and power grid connections, only because LENR can be fitted to those plants.

        • Sanjeev

          Not only to Wiki, such big co’s have an army of “experts” and advisers who sit down and shortlist the best option to invest. You can’t spend billions only depending on the wiki or any other random info sources on the net.

          When it comes to billions, safest path is the best. They will choose an established tech obviously. If an emerging tech (such as lenr) has potential , they may set up a “watch group” to report on it and take action if anything positive occurs.

          Unfortunately, so far there is nothing very concrete or encouraging about Ecat to settle on a decision. Thanks to Rossi. Google is not going to take any action when a photo of blue container is presented as world changing emerging tech.

          I’m sure that Google will be among the first to jump on lenr as soon as it takes on a non-nebulous form. Lets wait for 30th and the 3rd party report.

          • FlanObrien

            The e-cat claimants say that big players are welcome to come see the devices working. Why would Google stand aside if the have a “Watch” group? Why would they invest in 20 year energy projects if ecats are viable in the next 2 years say?

          • george

            Hi, not being a smart person, it’s very simple.
            In your world there lives 6 billion hungry mouths, half of them with no jobs.
            The world leaders/dictators know that the unemployed get restless and need to keep busy. So to keep the unrest down they throw away money to keep people busy
            In my opinion all human endeavor always has a negative return by degree. entropy

        • Wow…

          I think you guys are wrong.
          These guys are very open minded and disruptive.
          (Aand also Green)

          Since they take huge decisions they are not stupid enough to base their decisions on information only from one source and if so, definitely not Wikipedia.

          You say that Google is just like 99.9% of the population. My belief is that the people behind Google is the 0.1% that have the balls and money to make a serious change in this world.

          Why: Because their strong actions towards censurship of internet, f,ex in China. Because people behind Google is heavily financing Space Exploration and Space Mining Start ups.

          MY LOGIC, feel free to correct me, is that investing in Space Mining Technology means they would have to know about a technology that would make these ventures economically viable and profitable.

          Today its not because of the propulsion technologies we have (I believe) because if it was someone would already have done it. With Lenr or a similar technology it is… that’s my way of putting 1+1 together to understand the justifications behind billion dollar investments.

          Also every time I contacted their customer service and informed them that I am a Shi-Tzu who travels around the world to investigate and educate people about Green Energy Technologies and asked them to pitch in a bit for Free Adwords they have…

          Google have provided me with over 15 000 visitors this year, free of charge. Their employees are even sending me cute email some times…

          I take my hat of for Google 🙂

    • Roger Bird

      “Best minds” and science does NOT insure being able to change perspectives. I changed perspectives by looking at the soft/social evidence. Science and having a best mind had nothing to do with it. I do not have the best mind here in LENR-fandom. I am not a scientist. “Best minds” and science only insure effective behavior within a given perspective.

  • Björn

    I wonder if the customer will do any tests before the delivery of the 1MW plant and if it can be published, just as the test in nov. 2011 was published?
    Can anybody forward this question to Rossi in JoNP.
    My questions never appear on JoNP.

  • georgehants

    They say below, a new approach “using empirical observations” now there is a novel idea.
    What have they been using up to now, don’t tell me “expert bloody opinion” I suppose.
    The Register
    More and more likely that double CO2 means <2°C: New study
    Yes, it warms the planet – just not as much as thought
    By Andrew Orlowski • Get more from this author
    Posted in Science, 22nd April 2013 06:03 GMT
    The results of a new approach to calculating the effect of CO2 – using empirical observations – suggest it has a lower impact on the climate than previously thought, and its effects are being over-estimated by the IPCC.

    • Roger Bird

      What a freaking concept!!! But if we are to believe this, then we won’t be able to join hands and sing “kum ba ya” and share our existential anxiety. “Oh, I feel so alone. Please, someone tell what we can all worry about now so that I can make up a folk song about it and design a T-shirt about it. Perhaps I can reduce my meds if I can sing about our group sanctioned worries.”

    • Arthur Robey

      The authors say that the climate sensitivity to Carbon drops the predicted range from 2.1K to 2K. Put away the party balloons, and stop grasping at straws.

      • Manuel Cruz

        That the IPCC focuses in Carbon emissions is already very suspicious. Carbon isn’t even the most relevant greenhouse gas. It has a very low impact because there’s so few carbon particles in the atmosphere (and far fewer of anthropogenic cause), and its weight causes it to fall to the ground/seas after it cools down, where it’s absorbed.

  • georgehants

    Steven N. Karels
    April 24th, 2013 at 2:35 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    Regarding the question on a 1GW electric power plant using Hot eCat technology.
    To produce 1 MegaWatt of electrical power at 47% efficiency requires a thermal source of 2.128 MegaWatts or about 213 Hot eCats each producing 10kW of thermal energy. Or, each 1 GigaWatt of electrical output will require 213,000 Hot eCat 10 kW units. (I ignore any COP issues, assuming the plant would tap some of its output to control the eCats.)
    Question: Assuming you and your partner agreed to provide the eCats for such an activity (assuming another corporate entity would actually build the plant), how long would it take to ramp up production to produce the required number (213,000) of Hot eCat units (assuming certifications, etc had been approved)? Months, years?
    Andrea Rossi
    April 24th, 2013 at 5:39 AM
    Dear Steven N. Karels:
    This question needs a study that cannot be made in minutes. We will face this problem when and if we will foresee that such a problem is in the horizon. In any case, the robotized line we already have designed is able to make half million modules per year, and to double this capacity is not a big problem; besides, much work can be outsourced, and we have already organized a network of manufacturers we can outsource our production to ( for the non confidential parts).
    Warm Regards,

    • Patrik

      What kind of steam data is assumed to achieve 47% efficiency?

      • Alex

        I think the 47% comes from the self looping 1MW heat unit tested in Oct 2012. It produced just short of 500kW self looping heat wattage. I don’t recall final specs on the hotEcat, in heat or electrical efficiency, or even COP. You can get different efficiency from different turbines at different altitudes even, so it might be too early to confine large scale questions Steven proposed. But, humoring this specific efficency, it looks like Rossi would pump out 213, 000 units in about 5 months and a week give or take.

        • Alex

          From the time you order your 213,000 units you still probably have the lag time it would take to setup any other energy producing facility like nuclear, coal, or geothermal about 3 – 5 years. Plus whatever it takes to design new software to manage and deliver metered energy. Time to train a full staff how not to blow themselves up or let the ECats melt. Easily the first day you sign the order to the first cup of coffee heated from the plant, would be in the range of about 6 or more years. But, you wont see it go so big so fast, until the technology proves itself as reliably and safely as the other non-renewable sources. Sorry to give you this sort of news. But, anything is possible. More than likely a retrofit to an existing facility would only take 3 or 4 years. So it will have to be worth more than the revenue lost in that time frame to switch. Over the lifetime of the infrastructure itself.

          • Alex

            I am being very easy on these time frames. The nuclear plant near me took almost 9 years to cut the ribbon, granted that was 22 years ago.

          • Omega Z

            In the U.S. (Nuclear)you can actually spend 5 to 10 years in court battles before shovel hits the ground.

        • Patrik

          If you look at one of the most advanced power plants, Avedøre 2 in Copenhagen, using steam turbines you have the following steam data. Steam pressure 300 bar, steam temperature 580-600C, efficiency 49%. So, that is the required “food”.

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