Rossi on the Need for a Partner [Updated Again]

Here’s an exchange I had with Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about his partnership with the American company he has referred to so often. I know there are some who have been concerned that Rossi has ‘sold out’ by turning his technology over to external corporate interests, who may want to restrict the use of the E-Cat (prevent the sale of domestic E-Cats, for example) or even keep it completely from being used in the real world.

Dear Andrea,

I think more people are becoming convinced of the reality of your technology in light of the recent test report and I am sure that many are looking forward to seeing the E-Cat in the marketplace.

1. What are the advantages for your technology in entering to a partnership with a US partner rather than staying independent?
A. Our US Partner is a Carrier, like the Enterprise, we are a small warship. Now we can fight to win a world war. Without the help of our US Partner we could not survive. Maybe also physically.

2. How have you been able to ensure that your technology will not be buried or surpressed?
A. Choosing the right Partner, enthusiast and on the same wavelength of us

3. Have there been any attempts by outside interests to bury your invention?
A. yes, but they just tried to turn a tiger into a vegetarian. But this made necessary to find a strong Partner: you know what they say: if you cannot buy an enemy, kill him. There are many ways to kill a person.

Some interesting hints here — he talks about the need for a partner being necessary for the survival of his technology, and maybe even himself. Sharing his secrets with the partner may have taken a lot of pressure off Rossi, and apparently given him protection he could not have found if he had remained independent.

UPDATE:

Rossi made an additional statement regarding the partner:

Andrea Rossi
May 31st, 2013 at 5:34 AM
Dear Gian Luca:
The necessity to stay behind the curtain of secrecy is due to the necessity to work without disturbments from the enemies until the plants are operating.
We want not to be disturbed during the initial period during which technological problems have to be adjusted. You can imagine what will happen after it will be known where our plants are operating, and we need to be prepared also under the security point of view, with a consolidated operation of the plants. Only after this the USA Partner will make a press conference.
This is why here are spammed all the comments that ask us ” why your Partner wants not be known?”, again, and again, and again…..
Warm Regards,
A.R.

UPDATE #2

Here’s another relevant quote from a different JONP thread

Dear Luca Salvarani:
Our USA Partner is enthusiast of the E-Cats and is making all the necessary endeavours to develope this technology and all the possible applications at the maximum possible level. Obviously I will fight standing by him.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  • Joe Shea

    The one observation I have about his “$100 million” partner, which is not a very big partner. Thousands of small companies we’ve never heard of are worth that much and more. It would probably rank near 5,000 on a Forbes list of the largest US companies. I don’t see much power there.

    • Bob

      It’s all a matter of relativity. The fact that a few years ago he said he had to sell his house to fund the operation would make someone with a hundred million dollars very powerful in comparison.
      I still puzzle over why he didn’t take the money on offer from Dick Smith. Even if he doesn’t like him, that’s all the more reason to relieve him of a million dollars.

      • GreenWin

        It’s fairly obvious Bob. Smith is a rival inventor, http://bit.ly/ZiTeG5 who has failed to pay previous $1M Awards.

        Or in the amusing Rosserian dialect: “I have not time for such clownery.”

        • Bob

          Smith didn’t even ask to be present at the tests so I don’t know why being a rival inventor would affect anything.
          And if he didn’t pay up then Rossi and his followers could have had the pleasure of making his name Mud.
          Either way, if the device worked, Rossi had nothing to lose and everything to gain.
          I see the ‘clownery’ as being the failure to take up the offer.

          • GreenWin

            Erm, Bob, did you LOOK at Smith’s “invention?” He promised then failed to pay his $1M “WilderForce Prize” for population activism. Fraud.

          • Bob

            Yes I did, but apparently you didn’t.
            Perhaps you should read it again.
            http://dicksmithpopulation.com/wilberforce-award/
            In part it states;-
            “$1 million to go to a young person under 30 who can impress me by becoming famous through his or her ability to show leadership in communicating an alternative to our population and consumption growth-obsessed economy. I will be looking for candidates whose actions over the next year show that they have what it takes to be among the next generation of leaders our incredible planet so badly needs.”
            In case it’s not clear, he is offering an award for excellence, not for mediocrity.
            Mediocrity does not need to be rewarded. The world has it in over abundant supply. What we are short of is excellence and an ability to gather others behind it.
            If someone actually does this then the award will be paid. If not, then it wont be. It’s as simple as that.
            The fact that you are peeved because it hasn’t yet been paid would imply that you believe the mediocrity which has been displayed so far should suffice for the excellence requested. It does not, nor should it be.
            It’s still available for claim should you yourself actually do something significant which would make you eligible for the award.
            Perhaps you could list some of your recent achievements here so we can all get behind you and promote your eligibility. I realise your list will already be extensive so just the more significant ones will do. 😉

          • GreenWin

            Wouldn’t waste the time.

    • Veblin

      Every time Rossi says Our US Partner is a Carrier, it makes me wonder if he hinting that it is Carrier.

      Carrier is part of UTC Climate, Controls & Security, a unit of United Technologies Corp. (NYSE: UTX), a $53 billion company providing high technology products and services to the building systems and aerospace industries worldwide.

      • lukedc

        If you look at their business profile they just seem like a perfect partner. Would he make such a conspicuous comment like that though??

        • Glenn

          Only if he knew that a big announcement by said partner was imminent…

        • Veblin

          He has several times made the analogy of the partner being a carrier to his smaller battleship. When asked about Carrier he said.
          I cannot disclose the name of our Partner, therefore I cannot answer in positive or in negative, for obvious reasons.

      • Ake

        A carrier to me is much larger than $100 million, maybe he means $100 billion.
        Then these guys maybe are his new friends?
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_Industries
        Owner also seems to share his values and interest in cancer research.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch
        And finally, why did they start to sell their tar sand assets last year?

        Koch Industries Inc., the private U.S. conglomerate owned by the billionaire Koch brothers, put interests in six undeveloped oil sands holdings up for sale in June, 2012. The properties were said to contain 2.9 billion barrels of recoverable bitumen and the production potential was pegged at a hefty 300,000 barrels a day. At the time, Koch Oil Sands Operating ULC, the Calgary-based unit, said it was looking to attract partners with various development capabilities. However, a deal for just one of the properties, in the Cold Lake area, was made public, selling for $120-million to Baytex Energy Corp. in October.

        • fortyniner

          Rossi says “enthusiast and on the same wavelength of us” which again seems to indicate individual ownership of the ‘partner’ business, so Koch might be a good fit. I’m pretty sure that the phrase couldn’t be used in connection with GE, UTC or any other typical American corporations.

          I suppose Gates would be in the same category, but he seems to be more inclined towards NWO objectives such as population control, rather than true humanitarianism. If not an individually-owned company, then perhaps one that is controlled by a sympathetic individual such as Dr. James Truchard of National Instruments.

          • GreenWin

            While today’s Gates exhibits odd allegiance to climate change agenda, he and Melinda are humanitarians. In as much as the Foundation has donated $26.1 billion in grants primarily to combat global disease via immunization. They have been instrumental in helping to eliminate malaria from huge populations.

          • Roger Bird

            And the side-affects of his vaccination program, did he contribute anything for the elimination of that.

        • Roger Bird

          Oh, goody. I love the Koch brothers.

          And cancer is not really the big problem that the cancer mafia with it’s greed inspired blinders make it out to be. It is a problem, but not the insurmountable problem that they claim/think: http://www.cancertutor.com

      • Pekka Janhunen

        This time he says “our US Partner is a Carrier, like the Enterprise..”. There is Carrier Enterprise company, http://www.carrierenterprise.com, a subsidiary of Carrier Corp. He has said Carrier many times; I think this is the first time he says Enterprise.

        • Ake

          Pekka, after checking their site I admit this really could be the right one. Several things seems to be in line.

          – Company size
          – Offerings
          – Distribution structure/ area ( USA and Latin America)
          – Profile of CEO-former (former nuclear officer in USA Navy)
          – Head office (Orlando Florida)

          We now wait for the official message…

        • Bob Greenyer

          Pekka, given their product portfolio, you might be onto something there.

          • Timar

            Did you notice on the main page that they are selling a product line named “E-TAC”.

            E-TAC! Now that’s hilarious!

          • Barry

            E-TAC with a slash and everything, HO HO. It’s interesting to note Rossi is still the CEO of Leonardo Corp. This new partner has to live up to agreements I’m sure.
            I’m starting to think Dr. Rossi is a savy business person as well as inventor. Which is as rare as a muscician being a good salesperson.

          • Blanco69

            I agree that this is interesting. However Carrier Enterprise is a distribution company. I would have thought Rossi would need a bigger partner with manufacturing expertise. Maybe the Carrier Entrprise hint is simply the link to United Technologies.

          • Blanco69

            I agree that this is interesting. However Carrier Enterprise is a distribution company. I would have thought Rossi would need a bigger partner with manufacturing expertise. Maybe the Carrier Entrprise hint is simply the link to United Technologies.

    • Omega Z

      Joe Shea

      The $100 million you refer to is can the partner plop down that amount right now.
      For 1 to be able to do that, they would have to be Worth Far more then that. Probably in the range starting with a Capitol (B) with a multiplier.

      We’ve now narrowed down the list to less then 400 in the U.S. A few more qualifiers will quickly reduce this number to less then 200.

      There is a reason for this. Monetary access is usually a fraction of Worth. Even someone like Bill Gates would need to take out a loan if he needed to come up with a $100 million dollars on short notice.
      The Rich didn’t get rich or stay rich by having Cash assets laying around. It’s all invested constantly & rolled over. Piles of money are only the dreams of those who have none. Note the number of people who’ve won 10’s of millions in lotteries that file bankruptcy 10 years latter.

      That said- If you throw in a couple more qualifiers for a Rossi partner, There would be less then 50 Entities to look at. According to Rossi, you now need to look at who has a presence in China. The Number just dropped some more.

      • GreenWin

        “The Rich didn’t get rich or stay rich by having Cash assets laying around.”

        Indeed. They often don’t have two nickles to rub together. Strange for a Ni/H based enterprise.

        • Omega Z

          YEAH, But they have that Platinum Card.

    • Pedro

      The 100M does not come from Rossi. Somebody suggested that de development of the eCat would need 100M and asked Rossi if his partner could spend that amount of money. Rossi answered “Yes”. That’s all.
      On the name of the Partner… I always thought Carrier as well because of the references AR keeps making to Carrier. However there is somebody on this forum who I’m pretty sure knows more (insider?) who keeps pointing at Babcock&Wilcox. This is also a perfect fit and if you look at their home page (www.babcock.com) you will also understand why they fit the Carrier hint.
      Another possible hint is North Carolina (from the dream). That also fits the B&W thesis.
      Anyway… it’s fun to look for hints and I’m pretty sure we’ll know in a few months time. Let’s keep puzzling in the mean time.

      • Owen

        Yep. There’s a US Navy carrier on their home page. And the message from Babcock and Wilcox’s CEO mentions how they’re looking for partners that can “bring some sort of strategic technology” to their new reactor design. Also, the CEO emphasizes their goal of expanding international sales. All these details fit Rossi’s hints.

        • Dennis Jacques

          I noticed a curious thing a couple of weeks back.
          While perusing the titles available from the Gutenberg Project (gutenberg.org) I chanced upon the list of the 100 most popular downloads for the previous seven days.
          Among those listed were a number of those expected to be in the public domain, classics like:

          The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes by Arthur Conan Doyle (37170)

          Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen (36307)

          Les Misérables by Victor Hugo (20347)

          The Divine Comedy by Dante, Illustrated by Dante Alighieri (19178)
          and others of the like.
          However, ringing in at number 37 was:
          “Steam, Its Generation and Use by Babcock & Wilcox Company (9322)”
          Now this is an odd thing; that a book by B and W would be among the most popular downloads ANYWHERE would be odd enough… that it would be keeping company with Great Expectations, and the Kama Sutra of Vatasayana is queer beyond belief…
          I wonder what’s up with that, hmmmmm???

          • Roger Bird

            One data point for Babcock and Wilcox.

          • Pedro

            today the Steam book is 29th in the list… It’s getting more popular every day!

          • Zedshort

            That is bizarre.

          • GreenWin

            “Steam Punk” is a new fashion rage big in Hollywood and art circles.

          • Owen

            Admin: Let’s keep an eye on this. This is bizarre beyond belief. Come on, how many people read books about steam generation “just for fun”. Remember folks, it’s nearly impossible to keep a secret in this digital age. It shouldn’t be long before there’s other revealing evidence: list of new job offers that could be part of an LENR rollout, factory expansion/upgrading, subcontractor bids, employee leaks, etc.

          • Omega Z

            Babcock & Wilcox already have full access.

            It’s simple, It’s people following LENR who want to build Apps.

          • Owen

            Good point. You’re probably right. This is worth a separate blog post in my opinion. How exactly are individuals planning to harness LENR energy using steam?

          • fortyniner

            I wonder whether copies of plans for the White Steam Car or the Stanley Steamer are available in the public domain. They should be pretty hot properties by now, as well.

            I have a pile of old books on steam locomotive theory and design, acquired over the years – maybe I’m sitting on a goldmine!

      • Roger Bird

        Dang! Now I have two candidates. I will walk around all day confused.

        • Adam Lepczak

          It might be Babcock&Wilcox as they are the ones helping the Navy to maintain and service the Rossi’s experimental reactor (I am speculating, but it is a natural fit since they already maintain and design boiler in nuclear powered navy warships).
          So my bet would be on them due to ties to the US military and their focus on steam generation.

          • fortyniner

            It’s hard to tie any corporate entity to Rossi’s phrase “on the same wavelength of us”. Corporations only have one objective – to maximise their profits. I believe that is actually a legal requirement when shareholders are involved, which would not leave any space for the kind of philanthropy AR is talking about.

          • GreenWin

            I think I’v got it! E-Cat’s radiate substantially in the infrared, correct? And Rossi has newly mentioned Enterprise – like a mission. Okay, don’t laugh, how about this:
            http://www.enterprisemission.com/ir_images.html

            Thank me later. 🙂

          • fortyniner

            By god sir I think you have it!

            Er, just one teensie problemette – how did they get there?

            (V. interesting pics though).

  • Bob

    I think the main threat to Rossi’s good health will be if all this turns out to be a scam.
    It appears there are now many people who have invested money in this in the way of buying licenses and distributorships, on the promise of huge and almost immediate returns. I am guessing that so far, most, if not all, have had zero return. Some have also put their reputations on the line in publicly backing the validity of some of the more extraordinary claims.
    If it turns out that it is all ‘pie in the sky’ some people will not take that at all kindly. Some of them may also have the money and means to do something about it.

    If it turns out that it is all above board and true, then doing anything to Rossi would not alter the progress of the technology. He has said a number of times that the new partner has access to everything and therefore most adversaries would recognise that to do anything to Rossi would have zero effect on the progression of the technology. In fact, it might even hasten it.

    • GreenWin

      “… many people who have invested money in this in the way of buying licenses and distributorships, on the promise of huge and almost immediate returns.”

      Can you detail these promises for us? Or provide statements from licensees? Has Dr. Rossi made these promises? And by “immediate returns” – does a license or distributorship agreement promise immediate returns?

      • Bob

        Since everything seems to be always smothered by strict NDA’s then it’s impossible to prove what is in the license agreements. So-far no one has come forward and released a copy of the agreement, probably for fear of being sued.
        However, what we know for sure is that Rossi was making a list of ‘pre-orders’ and according to one of his statements about a year ago, this list had orders for over 500,000 e-cats on it. I remember it well because at the time I worked it out to about 1250 pre-orders per day. If every pre-order took 45 seconds to process then that took care of his 16 hours per day that he claimed he worked. No wonder progress on the certification was slow.
        It seems almost certain that the pre-orders were used only as collateral for the purpose of selling license agreements, because to this day, not one home e-cat has been sold and there is not even a specified date for a first sale.
        If there was no promise or strong indication of making a quick fortune by selling products which were ‘ready for market’ I can’t imagine what else would inspire anyone to pay up many thousands of dollars for a license.
        And according to the recent interview with Roger Green, this is still continuing as the larger license areas are split up into smaller distributorships.
        I wonder what the new and powerful USA partner thinks of all this?
        It’s hard to understand how they could be impressed with having to contribute maybe millions of dollars to the development of a product and then have others buying the rights to market it for $5000.
        It’s just one of the many things in all this which sound totally nonsensical.
        The only thing which keeps me hanging over the fence is the picture of the glowing orange hot ecat which is said to be from an input of 1kw. If it was only Rossi who claimed this I would have no problem in dismissing it as just more of the same, however, in view of the fact that it comes verified by some knowledgeable people, I have to give it some credence, that even though it runs contrary to everything I’ve seen so far, it could be true.

        • GreenWin

          In other words in answer to my specific request for evidence of your claims… you have none.

          As for distributorships, it would seem the US partner has exclusive North and South American territories and the licensed/authorized resellers have the rest of the world by territory. I suspect a reseller pays little for a territory because they’ll have to buy and resell manufacturer’s product like any other distributor.

  • Andrew Macleod

    I don’t think it’s physical danger when he says “kill”. It could be a reference to the constant character assassination attempts.

    • fortyniner

      I think that “Maybe also physically” is pretty clear – he feels that at one time it was possible he would be killed in an attempt to stop the technology, as a number of previous inventors have been.

      • GreenWin

        Including Doc Patterson’s grandson Jim Reding, at 31, of an “aneurism.” Peter, here is more on the Patterson Cell: http://bit.ly/17aS5W6

        • fortyniner

          Thanks. Yes, ‘heart problems’, ‘strokes’, ‘suicide’ and falling off trains seem to have been a hazard of being an inventor of new energy sources. Or just being locked up indefinitely like Pantone.

          COPs up into the hundreds in 1995/6 – I wonder what happened to development of this tech? The only Clean Energy Inc – CETI – websites I could find are a S. Korean company specialising in fuel cells, with a blank website (http://www.ceti-fuelcell.com/) and a company that uses rocket engines to drive turbines! (http://www.cleanenergysystems.com/).

          It seems very strange that such a hopeful set of initial results should apparently lead to nothing. I wonder what relationship, if any, the authors of the 2012 paper have with the historical CES Inc.

          • GreenWin

            CETI essentially disappeared in 1997. They were a no show at ICCF-6 just hours before presenting papers: “Electrical Control of New Hydrogen Energy,” “Design Considerations for Multilayer Thin-Film Patterson-Type Microspheres,” “Producing Excess Enthalpy…with Near 100% Reliability.”

            According to CEO Jim Reding, “An organization has already purchased the exclusive world rights to license and sub-license this patent. The organization has paid CETI $1 million dollars for this.”

            http://bit.ly/15pCz4L

          • fortyniner

            Yes, in 1997 the old order still held sway, and could make unwanted technologies disappear. Things have changed, and Rossi and the internet are the main drivers of the change.

            It looks like another ‘dark horse’ may be preparing to emerge then. I assume that the 2012 patent is intended to firm up the IP protection in connection with production of heat, as opposed to the earlier patent which appeared to treat this as pretty much a side issue.

            It looks more and more likely that 2013 may be remembered as the year that things changed.

  • Gérard2013

    When the partner Andrea Rossi says his name?

    It does no more good reasons for this partner is hiding today.
    The third party report is in the public square …
     
    When the partner say his name?

    In French

    Quand le partenaire de Andréa Rossi dira son nom?
    Il, n’y a plus de bonnes raisons pour que ce partenaire se cache aujourd’hui.

    La troisième parti du rapport est sur la place publique…

    Quand le partenaire dira son nom?

    • Roger Bird

      Your post doesn’t make any more sense in French as it did in English. At this point in time, “cold fusion” is still a word for silly nonsense. For the Partner to come out and say that they are supporting Rossi would be suicide for their other businesses and would not benefit them in any way. You just ***want*** them to announce, but they don’t care about your wants and probably don’t even know that you and I exist.

  • Adam Lepczak

    I think that we will hear more big news and announcements soon. Rossi is very comfortable with his tech and can almost call the shots now. Here is my “battleship” clip again:

    http://youtu.be/mkx68UdcPA0

    😀

  • mtiffi

    I think the wide range of public action of AR is also one necessary piece to protect him from physical death – not for convince the hole world or accalerate time to market

  • When his partner is as powerfull as the 3rd party report was written by independent parties, we will see another disappointment…

    • Omega Z

      barty

      That report is just a snapshot of the Data. They have a couple hundred hours of video we will never see & likely tons of other data & Photo’s not presented to US.

      1 of the 2 who financed the tests.

      (ELFORSK AB, the Swedish energy R&D organization established by utilities and manufacturers). They are the Ones who wanted the test & selected the Researchers who did the test. They are the recipients of the DATA. All of which is probably being studied by there people in preparation of the follow up test.

      Do you think they are doing this just for the Science. Or do you think they have other motivations.

      Follow the Money.

      • Yes, you are right, and I personaly don’t have any doubts about the report, mainly because Elforsk is involved.

        But we all know it’s not a scientificaly respected report, and there are too much outstanding questions, but Rossi made us excpecting an ultimate peer reviewed report which clears all doubts.

        Rossi often exaggerates very much and so I don’t expect a big partner as well.
        Maybe a small manufacturing company with ~100 employees.

      • Patrik

        Elforsk is only (partly) funding the test. I believe that data belongs to the authors rather than Elforsk. I don’t think Elforsk selected the people as well.

        • fortyniner

          They probably accepted a recommendation from Rossi to approach Levi, who may then have contacted his colleagues to assemble the team.

          • Omega Z

            Peter

            There was a Rep from Elforsk at the Zurich conference that showed interest in checking it out.

            I’m speculating, but I believe they may just be kicking the tires before they buy the Car.

            Note that Elforsk AB is an organization of 800 plus entities, but the 2 Founding Companies were a Power conglomerate & a Grid Conglomerate.

            Sweden being a perfect match for E-cat CHP systems.
            I think Hydro Fusion CEO Magnus Holmis involved behind the scenes. Info bits on JONP of Hydro Fusion pushing a project in Sweden. Along with a statement recently that Sweden may soon benefit from the E-cat.

            I don’t recall, but this may have been Just before the report popped.

  • freethinker

    Even if the information given often is shrouded in language difficulties, sometimes – I think – deliberate and filled with enthusiastic exaggeration, I think the name of the partner has been indicated several times in his JONP blog.

    So let me speculate 🙂

    (yes,yes, this name has been discussed before , but still …)
    (Source: LinkedIn)

    About Carrier Corporation

    Carrier Corp. is the world’s leader in high technology, heating, air-conditioning and refrigeration solutions. Carrier experts provide sustainable solutions, integrating energy-efficient products, building controls and energy services for residential, commercial, retail, transport and food service customers.

    Founded in 1902 by the inventor of modern air conditioning, Carrier improves the world around us through engineered innovation and environmental stewardship. Headquartered in Farmington, Connecticut, USA, Carrier has approximately 32,000 employees in more than 170 countries in six continents.

    Carrier is a member of the United Technologies Corporation (NYSE:UTX) family. UTC, based in Hartford, Conn., USA, is a diversified company providing high technology products and services to the global aerospace and building industries. UTC’s products include Pratt & Whitney aircraft engines, Sikorsky helicopters, Hamilton Sundstrand aerospace systems and industrial products, Otis elevators and escalators, UTC Fire & Security systems and UTC Power fuel cells. Also in the UTC family is a central research organization – the United Technologies Research Center – where industry leaders deliver the world’s most advanced technologies, provide innovative thinking and conduct disciplined research for the UTC businesses.

    Headquarters

    Carrier World Headquarters One Carrier Place Farmington, Conneticut 06034-4015 United States

    Note the “32,000 employees in more than 170 countries in six continents”. Proliferation of the ecat would be very rapid.

    While at it speculating wildly 😉 I Wonder about his ENTERPRISE.
    Note that US Navy vessel CVNN-65 USS Enterprise was deactivated December 2012, and is tagged for de-commissioning in mid 2013. Possibly this is the testbed for some new tech the navy want to test out, hence Rossi’s reference.

    Exciting times.

    • Mick D

      On May 15 Babcock and Wilcox announced a $350 mil Navy contract for procurement of nuclear components for naval vessels. $75 mil initial funding. How many megawatts to power a carrier?
      Just continuing the wild speculation.

      • Roger Bird

        Well, check the blueprints to see if an E-Cat could replace the fission reactor.

    • GreenWin

      Enterprise was also the first orbital vehicle in the shuttle mission. Also decommissioned. Where the heck is Scotty now?

    • Mick D

      USSEnterprise has 8 nuclear reactors developing 210 MW total. Replacing 1 with a e-cat 1MW would turn on a few lights. Leaving lots more room for Dekaflion or other LENR units for side by side testing.

      • Roger Bird

        Rossi’s 1 MW “plant” is deliberately open and non-dense. People have to get in there and fiddle with the little units. LENR is not limited to these little tiny cells. Rossi is already working on larger units with his flanged gizmos. (All engineering verbiage, you understand.)

  • georgehants

    My last “serious” post on page.
    Time for me to stop being frustrated by in my “opinion” the wasted time of intelligent people.
    I have said for two years that the Rossi reality was settled over two years ago when he first announced his discovery, that no abuse or denial was rational or scientific, only waiting for confirmation or proof of error was of any point, every speculation since that time has been (maybe) fun but of no worthwhile point.
    Mr. Rossi has every right as an individual to handle his affairs in any way he see’s fit.
    Unfortunately in this misguided World of capitalism that involves hiding the “secret” for various reasons.
    We have had to wait “frustratingly” for a fair conformation of his high output device, for most people, disregarding a most amazing conspiracy of many individuals that has now materialised.
    I can not understand in rational or psychological terms (in which I am always most interested)why so much time is wasted on page referring to Mr. Rossi where the Truth will automatically come to light as time goes by, when Cold Fusion in general has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt elsewhere.
    Very few people, scientists on page seem to be concerned that the most important advance for Human welfare in modern times is being hidden by our authorities.
    Why worry about Mr. Rossi when our thoughts and actions should be directed against the scientific World for not vigorously coming out and confirming the discovery, informing politicians and demanding that funds and manpower be diverted to this Research with much urgency.
    Very few seem to be concerned or aware of this travesty against people, no condemnation of our scientific elite by readers (with a few notable exceptions).
    Just lately the horrific bias and distortion that I and others have pointed out from Wiki-rubbish and the laughable “premier journals” has been at last openly seen.
    What should be discussed on page is the errors and corruption that has and is helping to keep this World under the boot of a few organizations and individuals
    purely for their own selfish ends of wealth and power.
    I would like to thank Admin for the time and effort he spends giving us all on page an opertunity to keep informed and debate the Cold Fusion Wonder, as one could certainly never find the Truth from any science source.
    A little while ago I bet Pekka that the Rossi report would not appear in one of the premier scientific comics, he declined to judge if it had.
    I therefor judge that the open Website where it appeared is far more premier that the political and religious comics that so called scientists allow themselves to be influenced by every day and will pay my bet of one hundred pounds to E-Cat World, to help it continue as one of the only places that scientists can discover the Truth on the subject.
    While people allow Science with Cold Fusion and many other important subjects to irrationally hide distort and deny the Truth, then every instance of Death or Suffering caused by this non-action in this World, lies undeniably on each of our heads.

    • freethinker

      But as much as I agree on how true scientific principles are violated by high ranking scientists for their own benefit or others benefit to whom they have pledged allegiance – openly or secretly, I cannot accept that *all* or even most scientists are at fault.

      The scientific community is a long aged weave of institutions, people, their values and their professional relationships. I was once told by a professor that the most valuable asset you have as a scientist is your integrity.

      To maintain that integrity, you do not want to go too far outside the reservation, obviously, as that integrity may evaporate really fast. That is what is making the scientific community a cohesive mesh. If a number of scientists, considered to have a impenetrable integrity, reject some new revolutionary claim, the claim will be rejected.

      This is a built in inertia that I support, because there are a *lot* of strange ideas out there, based on NO EVIDENCE, or prior art that would make it plausible at all. If the claim has validity, the scientists making the claim would carry on to build their case.

      In the case of “cold fusion” it was, and still is, very apparently a job done by people influencing the scientific community, controlling funds etc. People then protecting their turf, most them happened to be scientists. They made very bad decisions. They should be fired. The end result was that two eminent scientists were character assassinated – their integrity was stolen from them – and their work was marked as pseudo-science. They could not continue their work to build their case towards overthrowing the scientific community rejection in an orderly fashion.

      Condemning the scientific community, the principle of refereed journals, peer review will not really be something that builds for the future. They must instead be rejuvenated, put under the magnifier, etc. They also would have to adapt to society today, where the level of education increase and the world get smaller in terms of communication. It should be possible to get hold of scientific articles on the web, free of charge. Free the knowledge. 🙂

      No, condemnation should go to those individual scientists who are misusing their position, ignoring the very core of scientific principles that observation and empirical EVIDENCE comes before anything.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Yes I was guessing approximately 2 months ago that the report was being evaluated by Nature or Science. It is theoretically possible that it actually was, but was rejected after evaluation, and then they put it to Arxiv. Although admittedly more likely might be that they put it directly to Arxiv and what Rossi called “peer review” wasn’t actually such, but just he was referring to involving more coauthors for the paper.

      In the future, they might submit a paper to a peer-reviewed journal after improving it by the net comments that they have received for the Arxiv version. It’s not even completely excluded that such journal might be Nature or Science. Technically their embargo rules might become a problem there, but if the editor believes in the study and wants to publish it, such rules are probably open to interpretation.

      So in some sense the jury is still out regarding the journal. But overall, the question where the report is published is of course of secondary importance to its contents which we have now all seen and been able to evaluate by ourselves.

      Some of the mainstream media reactions (e.g. physicstoday) have been real embarrassments to read. It’s good that the internet preserves everything so that if and when the dust has somewhat settled someone can come and have a look.

      • AlainCo

        not a chance that Nature have considered such a paper, and I imagine that the Swedish did not even try.
        That cartel of journal have a public policy to reject LENR papers.
        It is validated by past story.

        Naturwissenschaften have a similar level of standard, but accept LENR paper, with normal checking.

    • Roger Bird

      What is a fact for you is not necessarily a fact for other people. Your experience of facthood is not the standard by which everyone must salute and believe in. Believe it or not, and I know that this will come as a surprise to you, other people have the right to come to their own conclusions at their own pace and in their own time. What you take to be a fact is not what someone else takes to be a fact.

    • GreenWin

      George, do not be overly discouraged by the twists and turns here; little is what it seems. Please continue to post fascinating science links and pithy “Hantsian” commentary when the spirit moves. For any mission to succeed it must be respectful of its entire congregation.

      While you IMO rightly find the “capital” system a primary impediment to knowledge access, I urge you to recall the script, “If your enemies are hungry, feed them.” We may one day realize the instrument of impediment becomes the conduit of redemption. It is a strange world. Corruption cannot tolerate light, and heat makes light. Keep the heat on, George.

  • Ask Me

    Thought this was kinda funny. On
    http://www.carrierenterprise.com/
    there is a link to a new air-conditioning product, the E-TAC
    http://www.greeetac.com/
    Anyone see any similarities between the names E-CAT and E-TAC, might just be a coincidence…
    However, given how Rossi in the past has talked about the partner looking to produce heat as well as cold, Carrier might be the anonymous partner we have been looking for. All the talk about navy, the sea and carriers by Rossi makes a lot more sense now.

    • Pachu

      lol i dont think so, but a funny one really

    • Roger Bird

      Carrier and UTC has definitely become my prime candidate. Too many co-incidents. Rossi’s trip to, through, North Carolina where there is a major Carrier plant.

      • KD

        Rossi US Partner is doing business in China too. Carrier is not.:))

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Also lots of UTX operations in Florida, though most are aerospace related. Probably some idle factories.

    • daniel maris

      Thanks Dan Brown!

      • Timar

        Hey! I have been the first to notice that coincidence! I deserve the Dan-Brown-Award! (Although I’m leaning more towards Umberto Eco…)

  • John Littlemist

    Speculation mode ON. Turboden is an italian ORC generator manufacturer. It used to be part of UTC corporation and I think that Turboden could have been the initial link to connect Rossi and UTC. However, Turboden was recently sold to Mitsubishi HI.

    http://www.mhi.co.jp/en/news/story/1305201662.html

    • Blanco69

      Yes. Selling Turboden to Mitsubishi may be the sort of thing you would do if you could foresee a step change looming in the ORC generator market and your Turboden asset didn’t fit the profile.

  • TPaign

    My guess has been that the partner is United Technologies (UTC, stock symbol UTX). Their Carrier division is the ideal partner for developing the E-Cat into combination heating and absorption chilling units, to be used for HVAC and industrial processes. They are also experts in engineering and manufacturing Organic Rankine Cycle systems.
    Also, notice that UTC completed the sale of their UTC Power fuel cell unit a few months ago, and they sold their Pratt & Whitney Power Systems unit (gas turbines for power generation) to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries last December. If UTC knows that they have exclusive rights to something (i.e. E-Cat) that will make those two market segments obsolete overnight, it may have been a smart move to unload these business units while they still have some perceived value.

    • Bruce Williams

      Signor Rossi I think mistakenly/deliberately (?) used the word Carrier in his reply.

      • Roger Bird

        He meant aircraft carrier! How could you even imagine that he might be talking in code? Really!

  • theBuckWheat

    Either Rossi sold out to corporate interests or else he is keeping it all to himself and we don’t like how he is doing things. People who haven’t lifted a finger to help him are now pushing their way forward to tell him how to run his discovery/invention.

    In the real world, Rossi’s device will require some industrial-strength investment to allow it to achieve its full potential. And that also implies industrial-strength risk-taking beyond the lab. For example, sufficient safety testing will cost millions. Let us appreciate Rossi for what it appears he has set in motion. Let us hope he chooses a suitable partner.

  • Einar

    Being active in the nuclear business, I would say that Rossi and his Partner are working really fast. From first public announcement of new technology to first trial runs in ACTUAL PLANTS in 2 – 3 years, that IS fast. Just be patient, if there will be an official disclosing of who the Partner is within 2013, I would consider that impressively fast.

    (normal lead times in nuclear even for KNOWN technology can be > 5 years, and if you include authorities such as NRC, SSM et al, 15 years from first application to actual commercial operation)

    • daniel maris

      I think we could all be very patient if it was confirmed who the partner was. Simples, as we say here!

      We’re back to the NDA defence… let’s hope we get more good news soon because the 3rd party test was a real credibility boost.

  • HeS

    Mysterious Rossi partner may not be a publicly traded company with dispersed shareholders. The management of public companies are “temporary”. Rossi has agreed with the owners of the company (not the management).

  • SteveW

    Are Rossi and the partner both dropping hints if that partner is Carrier Enterprise company. Rossi says ““our US Partner is a Carrier, like the Enterprise..”. On the Carrier Enterprise home page they advertise an air-conditioning unit named the E-TAC. It has nothing to do with the E-CAT, but I believe it’s the latest version of an air-conditioning unit, they changed the first letter to E, which now stands for Engineered. Kinda a strange product description considering everything is engineered.

    • Einar

      “It’s toasted”

    • Timar

      Yeah, that E-TAC coincidence, taken together with Rossis comment, is really odd and funny. However, why on earth should they make such an effort – just to drop a hint to a bunch of freaks like us?

      • Roger Bird

        By giving us sufficient doubt and uncertainty, he knows that the “information” won’t go any farther than us. Which reporter is going to report that the Partner **may** be Carrier or UTC or Babcock & Wilcox or ? ? ? ?

        • Timar

          Sure, we all know that Rossi can hardly contain himself and likes to tease. But are you really suggesting that his supposed partner Carrier actually renamed a whole product line for that purpose?

        • GreenWin

          Roger, did you miss a retort to Timar’s last sentence?

      • Warthog

        Humor among engineers and scientists is sometimes “odd”. I know….I are one (or maybe two)

    • Morgan

      that actually makes the most sense since they already have the exact infrastructure needed for mass production of such a device

  • Here’s another relevant quote from a different JONP thread

    Dear Luca Salvarani:
    Our USA Partner is enthusiast of the E-Cats and is making all the necessary endeavours to develope this technology and all the possible applications at the maximum possible level. Obviously I will fight standing by him.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Bento

      Him ?

  • GreenWin

    It appears that the Dr. has done diligence in establishing his US Partner. Such a Partner would have manufacturing competence especially in heating and cooling equipment, plenty of distribution and new product capital.

    This is where the factory claims must hail from. Retooling a water heater/CHP line for an E-Cat heat element would not take much in the way of robotics. And as we’ve seen from the validation, the Cat HT2 is designed with a mounting flange for boiler immersion. Nice.

    Rossi wrote “It is not a cruise ship, it is a warship.” Navy Seals make good protectors. I wouldn’t want to mess with them.

  • bhl

    Other companies include Siemens, Lockheed, Dresser Rand, and GE. When queried about working with Siemens on electricity generation, he said “we are under NDA.” Which could mean, we are under NDA with Siemens, or it could mean, that information is not public.

    Consider also where Rossi is living, and which companies have South Florida locations.

    • Morgan

      don’t think Lockheed would still be going ahead with their fusion program then…

      • Omega Z

        Maybe that’s a Distraction.

        OR

        Maybe their small scale Nuke Plants will have a Tiger in it’s Tank.

    • Sanjeev

      Lockheed had taken risk with DWave quantum computer before, so they are also likely. (Remember when people used to laugh at DWave guys, because they built an impossible thing according to their text books)

      Their connection to military (US) also supports this speculation. Rossi saying that he feels protected also goes with in, as military would protect their “investments” effectively.

      But yes, all speculations.

    • Roger Bird

      Well, there are several Columbian companies that have south Florida locations. Does this help?

    • atanguy

      Is Siemens American? Don’t think so…

      • Roger Bird

        German, sort of, really international.

  • Redford

    google ?

    • Timar

      Yeah sure, as google knows everything they must know about this 😉

      Honestly – I hope not! They are powerful enough.

  • Andrew Macleod

    I think that the partner is the US government or some branch of it. I do recall Obama stating several things that coincide with this. This would also explain all the secrecy. “The government is going off the grid”. “We have made one of the biggest commitments to clean green energy the world has seen so far”. I never seen or heard any details reguarding these commitments, please correct me if I’m wrong.

    • Timar

      I afraid that there’s really *nothing* unusual about politicians talking big about commitments without ever going into any details whatsoever…

      • fortyniner

        What would be unusual is if they actually did what they said they’d do – as opposed to something that could vaguely be interpreted as being similar, with no funding and no timetable.

        • atanguy

          Like the Manhattan project for example?

  • Dave

    This is getting more and more ridiculous by the day. If Rossi’s E-Cat really worked he wouldn’t have any trouble finding partners who could get E-Cat based products into production. Almost every corporation would be lining up and begging to work with him.

    Even with no development a manufacturer could make an E-Cat based water heater that would fly off the shelves of places like Home Depot.

    • Roger Bird

      Dave, it was not until 1908 that heavier-than-air flight began to be accepted by scientists and others. Credibility is a problem, and especially when Rossi is trying to protect his industrial secrets. If you have a problem with this, email the United State Patent and Trademark people and tell them to give Rossi a patent. They didn’t listen to me; perhaps they will listen to you.

  • Shane D.

    Rossi is now, in his own words, the “chief scientist” in this new business relationship with Carrier or whomever…

    What I can’t understand is: why then is Rossi still actively developing his ecat distributor network? Then also: why would this reputable new business partner accept the low quality, questionable character, of new partners being brought in by the likes of Roger Green? Why would they allow the licenses to be sold for so little (couple hundred thousand as I recall)?

    And let’s face it; the Roger Greens, TransAltecs, are not the types that one establishes a solid business foundation upon, let alone build an energy empire that will supply the worlds energy needs… is it?

    It isn’t adding up to me. A Carrier or GE type company in partnership with Rossi would take the reins in establishing the network of distributors, sales, etc. and keep Rossi doing what he does best… develop his ecat technology.

    And yes, I am a believer!… but when things don’t make sense they don’t make sense.

    • Stefan

      Hi,

      Well, to keep the balance he probably needed to get some kind of capital. Hard to borrow in the bank, hard to convince most credible people because they will most likely ask someone knowledgeable about the physics and therefore most probably will get scared away. Also Andrea do not want people to know for sure to early in order to not cause a lot of distractions from the needed development. Also possible is that these rather strange group of people are more likely to not have good connection to entities that may want to put a stick into the wheel for Rossi.

      All this a bit speculative but considering these facts I would also try to charm money like this, of cause with a time limit on the rights. It also looks like Rossi is more keen on working with the technology then maximizing profit so the time limits if any could be quite generous. And most important, we are talking about the right to sell (no), there will be a price tag of the actual product and the refill as well.

      /Cheers

      • Shane D.

        Stefan,

        Not sure if the licenses sold have time limitations after which they have to renegotiate like you say… but if so that would answer some questions.

        Especially so when, as you point out, Rossi needed money early on due to the stigma attached to LENR, so was forced to deal with the shady types to keep going.

        At this point though, if Rossi is joined with a larger company, one would think that his money woes are over so no need to allow selling of ecat licenses at discount prices and to the Roger Green/TransAltec types.

        • Stefan

          Yes, if he keeps on writing new contracts, you have a very good point. Do you have any references so that we can assess this info? Otherwise if this is old contracts or an effect of people buying rights from each other, Rossi and his partners best option is probably to play along.

          WDYT?

          • Shane D.

            Stefan,

            Getting lost in all the stories, but just recently there was an interview with Green where he mentions selling the last of the worlds licenses.

            Think he said he owns like $400,000 worth. Anyways… he was still active.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Come on, we have no idea what is in any of Rossi contracts.

          • Shane D.

            Maybe not Bernie, but we know some things. Here is a clip from the PESWIKI interview Stefan refered to:

            “We procure the license, we form a company, we issue share certificates and the equity, and then basically its an organic movement, slowly making contacts in all of these countries.”

            A Few Territories Still Available

            According to Roger, the following is a breakdown of territory slots taken and available:

            North and South America, China and Russia — all spoken for by large company [“spoken for” means “taken”]
            Europe — everything but Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the Ukraine, and 10% of Portugal are spoken for
            Middle East — Israel, UAE, Saudia Arabia are taken, everything else is available
            Africa — all spoken for, via 17 investors
            Australasia — Roger’s
            Asia — Roger and his family (Japan through Burma)
            India – Roger’s partner
            In all, Roger and his family and friends own about 1/4 of the world’s territorial distribution rights for the E-Cat.

          • Stefan

            I looked up the an article on PESN about
            Roger Green,

            I could not find that your claim is clearly supported in there. It more seams that he organize those who have already got a right. You have to quote here for us to go further.

            Regards
            Stefan

          • Stefan

            Oh, I’ve found it, the article continued passed the point where the text ended. You are right.
            There is some minor areas left, we are talking about an order of 1% of the global market. Not sure that this is a big enough cake to call for serious judgement’s though.

            /Stefan

          • GreenWin

            It may be that Rossi’s US partner will have NA/SA distribution exclusive. Other territories go to localized distributors.

            Product can be manufactured in USA and shipped globally through the distribution network.

  • Jerry Jones

    This is going to turn out well for humanity, Rossi is a tough business man now not the vegetarian type )

    • Timar

      Steve Jobs was a fruitarian. He couldn’t harm a carrot but was feared for his ruthless business conduct. People are complex…

      • Roger Bird

        “Steve Jobs was a fruitarian.” And that is why he died of pancreatic cancer.

      • AlainCo

        sorry for the godwin point, but it is quite common for fan of animals not to be so kind with their peers

        quite extreme case is such:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
        anyway during the 1930s ther have been a boom of environmentalist concern, a romantic vision of farming, focus on genetic purity, on body respect, on animal right…

        they were people of their time, like probably a big part of the german and western population. this did not prevent them to treat human like they refused cows to be treated so…

        human mind is complex… I hope there is no link between the two ideology, but sure there is no exclusivity.

        lesson of history is that care on nature won’t increase care on humans.
        question is if it will decrease it. some extremist prove yes, but I hope it is a minority.

        • Roger Bird

          I get extreme animals rights people have found friends in the Nazis. Kill all of the people and protect all of the animals.

          • fortyniner

            Agenda 21

    • Roger Bird

      I think that you are thinking of vegans, who are certified wimps. They can’t even take a joke about their religion.

      • Hampus

        ?

        • Roger Bird

          I rest my case.

  • E-dog

    Warren Buffett

    Its got to be.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

    And I totally agree with Shane below ^ something strange with the business model..

    But I really do appreciate the latest little bits of insight from Rossi about his way of thinking. A bit more openness, Im sure would shrug off half the sceptical feelings I still have.

    Just remember… If Rossi does/did have this technology. He his possibly holding the future of the human race and the rest of the planet in his hands.. It is a massive responsibility.

    Does he realise that??

    • E-dog

      Buffet > MidAmerican Energy Company >PacifiCorp > Siemens > Rossi?

    • Launch Command Officer Bob

      Rossi is not the only person sitting on this technology.

      I personally believe we all share the responsibility of creating / shaping our future because we live on the same rock and everyone’s actions effects each others life’s.

      You are just as responsibility as Rossi for our future E-Dog.

      “Your mother doesn’t work here”

    • Launch Command Officer Bob

      @E-Dog “Just remember… If Rossi does/did have this technology. He his possibly holding the future of the human race and the rest of the planet in his hands.. It is a massive responsibility.

      Does he realize that??”

      Thats a very dramatic statement.
      Rossi is not the only person sitting on this technology.

      I personally believe we all share the responsibility of creating / shaping our future because we live on the same rock and everyone’s actions effects each others life’s.

      You are just as responsibility as Rossi for our future E-Dog.

      “Your mother doesn’t work here….”

  • clovis

    Hi,Everyone.
    Thanks to you frank and to Dr. Rossi, for your constant battle to calm our fears, and once again i feel very comfortable, with the latest explanation.
    i too get weary of the long wait for things to be confirmed, and time is getting very short, when the ecat is confirmed to be working in a customer’s factory .it will be the final straw, as i see it.

    • Stuey81

      Hes not a doctor for the last time clovis

      • Roger Bird

        Stuey81, does this mean that you won’t be correcting anyone for calling Dr. Rossi “Dr. Rossi”? “Dr. Rossi, you are wanted in the OR. Oh, Dr. Rossi, you are wanted in the OR. ‘click'” Or does it mean that you will only stop telling clovis that Dr. Rossi isn’t a doctor?

      • Omega Z

        Stuey81

        Rossi has a PHD. so Dr. Rossi is a proper title.
        However if you mean he is not a Medical doctor you would be right.

        • Roger Bird

          It’s a good thing he is not an MD, or else I would have to demand far more proof.

        • stuey81

          a PHD in what exactly? this is news to me, and roger, yes to both lol

          • fortyniner

            Rossi holds a “Dottore Magistrale in Filosofia” in obtained in 1973, which entitles him to use the title ‘Dottore’ or Doctor. Perhaps you could actually do a few minutes research before making unsubstantiated claims in an attempt to run the man down.

            “In 1973, Rossi graduated cum laude in Philosophy of Science and Engineering at the University of Milan with a thesis on Albert Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and its interrelationship with Edmund Husserl’s Phenomenology. His advisor was Professor Ludovico Geymonat.”

            http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg56167.html

          • Roger Bird

            Actually, that is impressive. He has a PhD in Science and Engineering.

  • AB

    I’m pretty sure that the e-cat works, but I’m not yet convinced that Rossi has a sound business strategy or that he is telling the whole truth on this matter.

    His willingness to collaborate with Transaltec makes me seriously question his ability to pick good business partners. Or maybe that’s the point.

  • Jimr

    Whether the company is Carrier, Sieimans, Babcock/Wilcox, Google or one of Koch industries, I would be satisfied with any of the large companies. What worries me is that it would be a small company that most of us have never heard of.
    It is difficult for me to believe any large company would allow Rossi to be discussing developments.

    O

    • Glenn

      I too am curious about the size and notability of Rossi’s partner.

      Can you imagine the hard time Rossi’s critics and the press would give him if the USA Partner turned out to be a 1-man private start-up?

      I hope that Rossi’s recent referring to the Partner as “him” rather than “they” or “it” is only done to be ironic.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Interesting story on David Koch:

      He crawled down the center of the aisle toward the back and encountered a group of people crowded there, frantic, but making little progress. He was last in line. After a couple of minutes on his hands and knees, he said to himself, “This is crazy. If I don’t figure another way out, I’m going to die.”

      So he stood up, his head in the cloud of toxic smoke, and walked back, trying to hold his breath, to the front of the plane. An intense fire burned outside. “I said to myself, ‘My God, I’m going to die! What an interesting experience! I’ve done a lot of fascinating things, but I’ve never died before.’ ”

      He moved to the right side of the plane, almost unconscious from the smoke, and pulled open the galley door. The emergency slide had not deployed, so he jumped out of the plane in his stocking feet, falling hard onto the pavement.

      Koch spent two days writhing in pain in intensive care, suffering from smoke inhalation, with tubes passed through his nose into his lungs. Everyone who had been around him on the plane—including the elderly couple sitting to his right—had died. He was the only passenger in first class to survive.

      A year passed. Having finally recovered from his crash injuries, he checked in with his doctor for a routine exam. A blood test raised red flags, and later tests would turn up a form of prostate cancer, which Koch has battled on and off for the past 16 years.

      It’s taken a while, but the events of those two years—the plane crash and the cancer—have transformed David Koch, slowly changing him into one of the most generous but low-key philanthropists in America. After spending much of the past decade and a half giving to cancer causes as well as supporting his right-wing political agenda, Koch grabbed the spotlight this summer with a $100 million gift to the New York State Theater at Lincoln Center, elevating the profile of a businessman previously known mainly for a bruising fight with his twin brother over control of the family business.
      http://upstart.bizjournals.com/executives/features/2008/10/15/Profile-of-Billionaire-David-Koch.html?page=all

  • KD

    On speculations about Carrier Enterprise.
    From J-O-N-P

    Andrea Rossi

    Silvio Caggia:
    1- he,he,he,he…yes, I meant the glorious air carrier Enterprise: also Julius Caesar is dead, but his glory remained integer for centuries, and still remains! The glory of the Enterprise will bring good luck to all the ones that are grateful to the service that She gave to the Mankind, defending the freedom of the World.
    2- About PCE: very funny! It is just a coincidence, but ,actually, PCE 830 was the measurement instrument of the Professors that made the third party indipendent test, nothing to do with our Partner at all.
    3- Everybody is free think what he wants.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Roger Bird

      Unlike so many liberals and progressives, Rossi knows who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. I am so happy!!! Rossi is my hero!

      • frip

        Boy are you confused. Quit watching Fox, do a little actual research and straighten that out please. Even though, it’s nice to see that even jug heads can be open to new ideas.

        • atanguy

          +100

        • Roger Bird

          Thank you for being provoked. That gives me great joy.

          Please, could you please repeat an actual argument or idea in your response rather than the ad hominem non-arguments. There was so much putting me and my ideas down that I didn’t actually discern any ideas/arguments.

          • Robyn Wyrick

            Seriously, “Thank you for being provoked. That gives me great joy.” that is just a Troll sentiment. Can we please illuminate better information and elevate one another?

      • Robyn Wyrick

        Roger, I visit this site every day, and I have enjoyed some of your contributions, but your political attacks are (1) totally off topic, and (2) really tiresome to me, a liberal progressive who seeks open and positive dialog.

        I have – finally – simply begun bypassing your comments because they are so frequently laced with invective.

        If your goal is to promote an understanding of LENR, or the E-Cat, the Fleischmann Pons Effect, or some other, related technology, then great. But if the goal is to gin up a flame conflict then I’d rather you took it to another site, one that is about political debate.

        Simply stating that “liberals and progressives” don’t know who “good guys and bad guys” are, is a pure insult, and has no other purpose.

        Regards,

        • Fibb

          yeah off topic stuff is a drag. time to find another website for that please. some of us have lives and don’t have time for nonsense when we are looking for our next Rossi fix.

  • Stefan

    I’ve just contemplated one oft cited:

    Huizenga’s “Three Miracles of Cold Fusion”
    Miracle A: the mystery of how the Coulomb barrier is penetrated
    Miracle B: the lack of strong neutron emissions
    Miracle C: the lack of strong emission of gamma or x-rays

    And the interpretation is Ok, one miracle can happen, but three!!! you must be kidding me.

    This reasoning is really flawed, there is only one miracle to account for. The argument goes as,

    * They are not independent.

    To see this we have
    P(A,B,C) = P(A,B,C|A)P(A) + P(A,B,C|-A)P(-A) >= P(B,C|A)P(A)

    given A we can argue that it is much more probable to assume that the lattice environment is interacting to damp out any possible radiation then the each of the effects taken in isolation.

    e.g. P(B,C|A)P(A) >> P(B)P(C)P(A)

    and we get
    P(A,B,C) >> P(B)P(C)P(A)

    Ergo
    On a logarithmic scale there is only 1 + epsilon miracle.

    Independently yours,

    Stefan

    • AB

      I don’t understand how Huizenga’s reasoning was accepted back then.

      When confronted with a mystery, they turned their heads away.

      Isn’t unraveling a mystery the greatest achievement a scientist can hope to achieve?

      • Roger Bird

        It is really quite simple and I am surprised that you don’t understand. They disbelieve the observations because it does not fit into their theories. We no longer believe that their theory covers all cases. This a “struggle” or conflict between theory and experience/observation. So we are sort of even. I’ll take observation any day over theory, particularly (1) when the observers are scientists who have a lot to lose, (2) we are exploring a paradigm shift, not diddling with a paradigm already well known and understood.

        • stefan

          Hmm,

          At the time there was less information and to correctly assess the implication of
          these 1 miracle and it would have demanded quite a lot of logical thinking to assess it right.

          Today, a lot of people have just assumed bases on measurement indications, that cold fusion is working and connected these facts with theories by using what we know about physics. The misstakes of people stating three miracles is that they assume that anybody stating cold fusion might work is retarded and don’t understand physics.

      • Barry

        Peter Hagelstein opened his MIT class on CF with “Huizenga’s Three Miracles.”

        Anybody want to buy a used copy of “Cold Fusion the Scientific Fiasco of the Century?” JH must have meant the last century.

      • Thinks4Self

        Oh that is an easy one. The physicists of the day became more like bureaucrats and politicians to keep the the hot fusion gravy train chugging and forgot how to be scientists. Greed is a helluva drug!

        • Roger Bird

          I think that greed was only half of the equation. There is a mind-set that must understand everything, and since the hot-fusionists didn’t understand cold-fusion, the Pons and Fleishmann must be mistaken or incompetent.

  • Stefan

    Ok, I having fun here.

    Anyway I hope people could focus a little bit on this fragment from Joshua Cude,

    BEGIN QUOTE (Vortex-l)
    I’d much rather you explain how a power density 100 times that of uranium
    in a fission reactor works without melting the nickel, and how a nuclear
    reaction is triggered by heat, and how nuclear reactions can produce that
    much heat but no radiation. I know it involves secrets, but them secrets
    are the basis of tricks too.
    END QUOTE

    My comments,
    It is interesting to relate the heat release of the ECAT to a fission reactor.

    1. The main release of energy should be a quantum / quantas that goes out as radiation but also a small part should be taken up by the lattice environment and one would expect that part to become heat inside the powder. Assume 10% is dissipated to the lattice.

    Assume that the radiation interact to a 10% degree with the powder (the rest basically interacts with the Ecat casing), in all we get 20% of the factor 100 and there remains e.g. 20X.

    2. Fission reactors are uranium rods immersed in a fluid right, the ECAT has powder immersed in what and how?, Anyway it is not unimaginable that the heat transfer from the powder is a magnitude higher then the Uranium rods.

    3. The overall Ecat taken as a whole probably has much lower power density then Uranium rods. So the fact that the Ecat has pretty bad heat
    transfer to the environment compared to Uranium rods in a fission reactor should not be a problem.

    I have not contemplated the report in details regarding this, but please continue the discussion and have a ball.

    /Stefan

    • Paul Stout

      Part of the answer.

      A nuclear reactor operates at around 300 degrees C.

      Uranium melts at 1,132 degrees C.

      Nickel melts at 1,453 degrees C.

      Radiant energy increases with the square of the temperature difference. So the amount of radiant energy dissipated goes up extremely fast with temperature.

      When the first test failed due to melting the E-Cat, it was putting out a LOT of energy.

  • John Loraditch

    I think more Warren Buffet a good guess more likely candidate would be people T Boone
    Pickens

  • Methusela

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=806&cpage=10#comment-708958

    Andrea Rossi
    May 31st, 2013 at 2:53 PM
    TO OUR READERS, REGARDING WIKIPEDIA:
    I MUST AGAIN GIVE THIS INFORMATION: WIKIPEDIA, AFTER THEY WROTE US ( BY TOM CONOVER) THAT THE PAGE HAD BEEN CORRECTED, TODAY AGAIN I SAW ON WIKIPEDIA THE FALSE INFORMATION THAT THERE IS A SUE PENDING AGAINST ME FOR EVENTS OF MY LIFE OF 20 YEARS AGO, FROM WHICH I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED. TODAY AGAIN I TRIED TO CORRECT THE FALSE INFORMATION, BUT NOT ONLY THE CORRECTION HAS BEEN DELETED IN FEW SECONDS ( LESS THAN 1 MINUTE), BUT OUR IT GUY HAS BEEN BANNED TO WRITE AGAIN ON WIKIPEDIA. FROM THIS FACT THE CONSEQUENCE IS THAT:
    1- I HAVE IRREVOCABLY DECIDED TO SUE WIKIPEDIA FOR LIBELLING. ALL THE MONEY WE WILL OBTAIN AS A REFUND FOR THE DAMAGES THEY HAVE CAUSED, ARE CAUSING AND WILL CAUSE TO US WILL BE GIVEN TO A FAMILY THAT NEEDS IT FOR THE CARE OF A CHILD WHO HAS A CANCER
    2- I INVITE EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO HAVE NOT THE FALSE INFORMATION GIVEN BY WIKIPEDIA, BUT AN INFORMATION ADHERENT TO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, CAN GO TO
    http://WWW.INGANDREAROSSI.COM
    I HAVE BEEN ACQUITTED FROM ALL THE ACCUSATIONS FOR WHICH I HAD BEEN ARRESTED IN 1995 AND WIKIPEDIA HAS PUBLISHED A FALSE INFORMATION. NO SUES OF ANY KIND ARE PENDING AGAINST ME.
    WIKIPEDIA HAS PUBLISHED A FALSE INFORMATION EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN INFORMED BY US THAT THE INFORMATION IS FALSE. THEY KNOW PERFECTLY THAT THE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN ON WIKIPEDIA ABOUT ME IS FALSE, BUT THEY REFUSE TO CORRECT THAT INFORMATION, AND REPEATEDLY CANCELLED THE CORRECTIONS, UNTIL TODAY, WHEN THEY, AFTER CANCELLING OUR CORRECTION, HAVE BANNED US FROM THE POSSIBILITY TO WRITE CORRECTIONS ON WIKIPEDIA. WIKIPEDIA IS PUBLISHING FALSE INFORMATION OF ME ALSO IF WIKIPEDIA KNOWS PERFECTLY THAT WHAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN IS FALSE.
    FOR THIS REASON THEY ARE SUED BY US FOR LIBELLING.
    ANDREA ROSSI

    • Methusela

      Rossi vs Jimmy Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Wales)

      Should be interesting.

      • GreenWin

        It WILL be interesting if that’s who Dr. Rossi sues, personally along with the wiki company. Jimmy has a checkered past as both a porn site operator and a commodities trader. It is clear to me wikihearsay is corrupt to the core and in need of a clean sweep.

        http://bit.ly/13rdaX4

        • daniel maris

          I can’t really imagine why Rossi is bothered by this.
          According to the pathosceptics, it’s not stopping his scam…

          It seems an odd thing to get fixated on, though I can see it would be annoying to him.

          Strange. On balance, a plus for overall credibility perhaps. Maybe this is where Rossi feels that he can begin to reclaim his reputation now that he really does have a world-changing technology that is genuine and primarily his own invention… It’s interesting that the Wikipedia obsession has started at the same time as the third party report emerged.

    • freethinker

      Its a pity they cannot handle a situation when their trademark is used to blatantly harass and abuse other people for self-interest (or even gain, if somebody pay them to do it), spreading disinformation and lies.

      Editing wiki about living individuals has a certain extra responsibility attached to it, so they should be more vigilant, and reactive when there is criticism from the subject portrayed.

      I have contributed to wiki when they have asked for money. I think they have received enough from me for now.

    • Sanjeev

      😀 Welcome to the real world.
      I’m sure his partner can buy out 20 such wikipedias and make them disappear forever.

    • Zedshort

      There is a small but troublesome cadre of trolls that hang out on certain articles on WP and who fancy themselves as the self-appointed Wikipedia Police. They know the “guidelines” of WP very well and also how poorly most of us know the “guidelines”. They support one another. If one of their number is having a tough time getting their way they call upon their cohort for support. They also seem to have support from a number of administrators. Despite the fact that they break the rules frequently and have been warned, WP fails to boot them off the system. Even more pathetic is the fact that some of them have contributed nothing whatsoever as far as original content to any article for many, many years. About all they seem to do is to squat on an article, select among the suggested input that satisfies their narrow world view and drive off everyone else. While that troll behavior is going on, WP wonders why they are losing editors and in particular why so few women contribute edits. Go figure.

  • Stuey81

    Its gotta be space x, one of elon musk’s companies, his private space craft recently docked with the international space station, he also claims he wants to put men on mars by the year 2030, not to mention he is the co-founder of tesla mototrs ( the awesome electric car company) ecat tech would suit both applications. Rossi was hinting at it being a carrier like the enterprise, well musks space craft was designed to carry payloads into space, like the enterprise from star trek!

    • Stuey81

      This also fits with, i will fight standing by HIM statement

    • Roger Bird

      I think that it is a good guess for the partner to be someone with no fear of looking outside of the box.

    • daniel maris

      I backed Space X to be the real deal for space exploration soon after they started and am pleased at just how much they have fulfilled expectations. However, I don’t feel it’s Musk. Musk is a fairly open operator. If Rossi is for real, I think it’s likely to be an established energy company.

    • Morgan

      noooo way. all the money he is starting to invest in solar charging systems and his quick charge stations. it’s in the hundreds of millions

  • Anonymole

    Set of “partner(s)” references on JONP over the last few years… This sounds like just another item to add to the bottom of the list.

    Hergen
    April 9th, 2011 at 2:13 PM
    Dear Mr Rossi,
    I have several questions:
    1) You told us that you have signed a contract with a new US partner with whom you want to sell energy in the US. Do you want to sell heat, electricity, or both?
    2) Is your new partner a public traded company so that I can buy shares of them?
    3) You told us that you made your modules smaller (10 kw to 4.5 kw) because of safety. Now for your modules are safer, can we expect that heating systems for heating normal houses are sooner available than before?
    Thank you in advance.

    Andrea Rossi
    April 9th, 2011 at 3:07 PM
    Dear Mr Erwin Hergen:
    1 – both
    2 – By october we will make a joint press conference
    3 – Maybe, yes, but the issue in this case is Authorizations.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    August 12th, 2011 at 10:36 AM
    Dear Giovanni Nobili:
    Do not worry: we have very strong Partners in the USA and we are going on.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    August 13th, 2011 at 7:21 AM
    Dear Henry:
    Our USA Partner is a team of enlightened People who wants to put this technology at the service of Mankind, due to theis cultural roots.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    August 13th, 2011 at 5:26 PM
    Dear Enzo Bellato:
    Thank you for your friendship: I’m delighted of it. Be sure and bet: the E-Cat technology will be put at the service of Mankind, first because our USA Partners have the necessary structure, second because my life is on these stakes. Of course we will have to face contrasting interests that will do all they can to destroy or discredit this work; we have some snakes around, paid by the competition, that are trying to destroy all this work before it can have its natural development: you have seen the personal attacks against me, and you will see much worst that this: the 1 MW start up of October terrorizes some, because now, for the first time, LENR are not small lab apparatuses not able to create real competition, but are real industrial power generation systems. Anyway, do not worry, because:
    1- in my life I have seen much worse than this, and I am not easy to be impressed
    2- these attempts are futile, because there is no snake around, even well paid, that will be able to forbid to my 1 MW plant to go in operation in October in such a place and with such Scientists arount to test it, that the efforts of our enemies will be, as I already said, attempts to stop the Niagara Falls throwing against them dirt with a shovel.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    December 29th, 2011 at 2:50 PM
    Dear Iggy Dalrymple:
    In due time we will give the names of our Partners: it will be when our E-Cats will start to be in distribution. To give the names would mean to receive a lot of meaningless disturb to our work, which in this moment is very hard.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    January 10th, 2012 at 4:05 PM
    Dear Keith W:
    We are making the certification .
    Attention: I did not say that we will begin to deliver in August, I said we can be ready to make order confirmations in Autumn; we are right now making the engineerization of the factory ( the production will be completely robotized to squeeze down the price as much as possible) and, even if we will be very good, the first deliveries will start perhaps within the year, but I cannot promise it; I can say that the price will be lower than expected and that it will be a revolution. We are making a tremendous work with top level Partners.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    February 1st, 2012 at 7:56 PM
    Dear Luca Salvarani,
    I beg you to rewrite also in English your question, so that our Readers, mainly Anglophone, will understand what we say. I can give answers which translate the sense of the questions if the comments are short, otherwise in this period it is very hard for me because I have really not time. We are preparing the manufacturing of the million E-Cats, with the very high burden that it generates, we have to manufacture the 1 MW plants, all in the USA, while I have to fly across the World to prepare the network for the sales…please you translate, I answer, I promise.
    Well, while writing this I understand that I am disappointing you, so now I answer translating for you, but in future, please, if the comments are more than 3 lines be kind, translate them in English.
    Answers:
    1- Yes, it will be possible to power the drives of the E-Cat in series, to increase the efficiency, of course when we will able to produce efficiently elecric energy. But I want to say you one thing: today we met a Partner in the USA who will allow a tremendous increase of efficiency of the system. The beautiful of this Country is that when you wake up in the morning you never know what will happen new during the day.
    2- the improvement of COP will make sense only if it will not jeopardize the competitivity, you are right. Thank you very much for your kind attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    November 28th, 2012 at 4:48 PM
    Dear Koen Vandewalle:
    We made an Agreement with a very important Partner who will be able to develope the production as much as requested from the market. The first step are the 1 MW plants we are manufacturing now. It is true what you say, we are changing the design during the manufacturing, because we discover every day possible upgradings, but this is normal when it turns into a completely new technology.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    November 30th, 2012 at 12:01 AM
    Dear Frank Acland:
    Our Partner shares our philosophy.
    Stay alert: the third party validation will finish in 2 weeks, after which they will prepare the report. I’ll keep you informed.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Andrea Rossi
    December 19th, 2012 at 10:57 PM
    Dear Koen Vandewalle:
    Thank you.
    I remain in the position of Chief Scientist.
    Of course with the Partner we will increase the spin.
    The report of the test just made will be important.
    The informatic is important too.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Kim

    We have seen the wright brothers airplane fly.
    We have seen the E-cat function.

    We will be building the airplanes in the U.S.
    at the wright brothers partners facility.

    We will be building the E-cat in the U.S
    at our partners facility.

    Don’t you think a few reporters would be trying
    to find this facility?

    What has change between 1903 and 2013?

    Respect
    Kim

    • LilyLover

      Caesar took over Egypt just like that.
      The Bankers took over the World just like that.

      In 1903 people had misplaced faith and lack of information.
      In 2013 people have misplaced faith and lack of DESIRE TO SEEK information.

      The 1903 uninformed has become 2013 dumber-ignorant.

      Information vacuum paradox – I call it.
      Internet, the real threat to evil, is countered by information vacuum paradox, by the masters and the system apologists.

      • Kim

        Correct!

        Perfectly correct.

        Respect
        Kim

      • Roger Bird

        We are inundated with too much information, so it may be difficult for us to pick and choose with things to study and which to just pass over.

        • Kim

          This is definetly part of the
          problem.

          People do have information overload
          and can’t focus on what is important.

          Man This is IMPORTANT!!! this is
          will be a whole new chapter for
          humanity

          Respect
          Kim

          • Owen

            It’s really weird though because I’ve told intelligent tech savvy people about the E-Cat and explained why it’s one of the most important inventions ever and so far they just don’t get it. They’d rather talk about frivolous stuff and joke around. The third party report was helpful in strengthening my case.

          • Roger Bird

            Owen, IQ will not help a person shift paradigms. If anything, being too much into one paradigm may hinder some people from shifting paradigms. We have rock solid observation on our side. They have theory developed using observational tools traveling close to light speed on their side. And we know that things traveling close to the speed of light exhibit peculiar behavior. If every single, solitary one of their measurements were using these light-speed tools (electron, neutrons, etc.), then they could and would probably have a bias in their “observations” which has caused them to miss things that we are seeing in cold fusion experiments.

          • Owen

            Good to hear your take. They probably feel the story is too long and complex to sort out. I’m guessing they will take the wait and see approach. They’ll fully believe when a major company makes a big announcement and/or products are for sale in major chain stores. This makes sense for normal new products — a new car, etc. But here we’re probably talking about the biggest game changer in history. You’d think they’d show more interest. That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me.

          • Joe Shea

            They have just been burned too badly over the Pons-Fleischmann event. The media has a pretty long memory. They will not cover this story for years, I think – at least the big dailies like the NY Times and LA Times. We will get Discovery, Myth Busters, etc., long before they will commit themselves to print. But there is hope “60 Minutes” will come back to it, or Dateline will find it, or maybe Rock Center. Wired and Forbes, Popular ZMechanics, Oilprice and several other fairly big sites are fully on it, though. A cover story in Rolling Stone would be great.

          • Owen

            Their lack of interest could be based on a combination of things — lack of mass media coverage, ‘failed’ P&F experiment, information overload. There are millions of rabbit holes you can duck into.

            I’d love to see someone like Matt Taibbi do a Rolling Stone story about the coverup of cold fusion/LENR.

          • AlainCo

            yes, the problem with new paradigm is that the old-species is adapted to the old-paradigm, and more drammatic defend it’s position despite logic.

            IQ is not really the problem, and sure not the solution, because the problem is education.

            as Thomas kuhn explain, scientist education is so painful that they cannot think different. It is required to be a brainwash, because their current paradigm have to be so deeply entrenched that they can work at the frontier of their knowledge, not bothering about the foundation of their paradigm.

            this is why innovation came from people of another domain, often told incompetent or suboptimaly educated, that dont have the rigid position on the foundation…

            it is more easy to move a trailer than a castle.

            this is why most innovator, when not foreign scientist (chemist in physics or medicine), are simply lower educate (engineer, practitioneers, self-taught).

            this is what many people explain like:
            nassim nicholas taleb
            norbert alter
            thomas kuhn
            and in a different way, roland benabou (who explain that people having not invested too much, and not dependent on the entrenched community in a subject can see the facts better).

            all is normal, yet awfully crazy.

          • b4FreeEnergy

            Exactly. This is not at all the problem, people definitely have the desire to seek and find information but with the massive amount of information you have these days, how can you decide which one is simply wrong or manipulated and to be ignored and which one is correct and can be trusted. You cannot be an expert in everything and often need to sense if there is possibly some validity in the information you find.
            Not an easy thing.

          • Hurley

            I get the same response for fellow Engineers. They laugh and say you mean the cold fusion thing. I say it is not cold fusion. No interest.

          • Roger Bird

            This may be cultural evolution in action. Those who don’t get it get left behind.

          • AlainCo

            nassim nicholas taleb in antifragile explain well that too much information blur our hability to take good decision.

            his vision is that too much data lead to too much reasoning and planning, and since we cannot predict well whatever we try, the more we plan the more we get sensible on our errors, thus fragile…

            the secret of the good decision maker is to get less data, just to see where you are fragile, where robust, and where antifragile.
            to invest few bucks/time in trial and errors, or similar asymmetric options with small cost and unlimited risk (or hopeless, but cheap and not artificial-avoid artificial uncertainty) possibility of gain.
            then, and this is the only place where intelligence is useful when we see something unexpected, we can decide if it is positive, and exert our option to benefit from that blackswan…
            this is where practitioners and greedy businessmen are superior because they have no restriction to what they can accept as good, unlike academics who reject what they did not plan.

      • Knstanley7

        dear sir you sure sem to have a bad opinion os 21st centary youth, these kids are smart and computer savvy,and go on line to study everything,and much easyer than backin 1903,give them abrake okay,im 54 years old and althe kids i know would give grown ups a real run for the infomation.

        • Roger Bird

          Information is NOT wisdom.

        • Omega Z

          Kid says, “Dad, your generation knows nothing about new technology”

          Steve Jobs says, “Shut up & get your A55 to school.”

    • Roger Bird

      Human nature improves about as fast as a glacier.

  • Omega Z

    When speaking of partner Rossi says he-
    Don’t read to much into that.

    Dear Georgehants,
    her comment is important because it opens the door to the following news:

    Her referring to George. Probably should have read “Your”

    If I were at War with somebody, I would want Rossi to Totally be my public Spokesman.
    It would totally Confuse the Hail out of your Enemy. They would have no Idea where your at or where your going. Maybe you packed up & went home. They would be in total chaos trying to figure it out.

    • Kim

      Carlos Castaneda Said it this way when
      asking Don Jaun about a warriors disposition.

      ” A warrior knows the secret of making
      oneself available or unavailable at every turn”

      Respect
      Kim

  • Roger Bird

    Columbus comes back from the New World. “Hey, we found land with people living on it.” “Prove it.” “Well, we saw it, and here are some pretty flowers that we brought back. We also brought back some captives.” “Everyone knows that there is nothing going West. You probably accidentally went down to Africa and found savages who were not quite as dark as the ones that we are used to.” “No, we actually went west. You have our word.” “Your word is not good enough. Do you have any documentary evidence.” “Well, no.” “You should have a signed document from the king of this new land that you claim to have visited. Do you have such a document?” “Well, no.” “Then you have no evidence. You are a fraud.”

    • AlainCo

      it happen to Marco Polo

    • Jordi Heguilor

      Columbus trips had something Rossi’s demonstrations lack: repeatability.

      • Roger Bird

        But Jordi, that is not true. LENR has been repeated numerous times: Mitsubishi, Toyota, SRI, etc. LENR+ has been repeated by other companies at least twice (Brillouin and Defkalion), perhaps more, if someone wants to chime in here and help me and protect the honor of LENR+.

        • Mannstein

          At MIT with Hagelstein and Swartz it has been demonstrated last summer to the public.

        • Jordi Heguilor

          Roger, I didn’t talk about Mitsubishi, Toyota, SRI, etc.

          The ones lacking repeatability are ROSSI’S demonstrations.

          • Roger Bird

            Jordi, so you believe in LENR, just not Rossi? This is because Rossi won’t give out his secret sauce. But that will either come or else we will eventually lose interest in him.

            It is nice to see that you are not a patho-skeptic. I battled them and shills for years in the health realm; I am wiser now. I don’t battle them.

            But what say you of Brillouin and Defkalion? Do they not count as replications?

          • Jordi Heguilor

            Roger, maybe you have more information than I do, but, no, I haven’s seen independent confirmation of Brillouin or Defkalion’s claims, so, no, they don’t count as replications.

          • Roger Bird

            But Jordi, Brillouin and Defkalion are the independent confirmations of LENR+. If all LENR+ are commercial, and commercial does not count as independent, then I guess that you will have to wait until you can buy one at Home Depot before you can have “independent” confirmation. Your neighbor’s LENR+ won’t count because he won’t want to look like a fool for buying an unproven technology.

  • Ake

    Using Rossi statement about his Partner being present in China
    gets the list of candidates alot shorter .
    E.g this office could become very important for E-Cat:
    Babcock & Wilcox Beijing Company Ltd.

    Which candidates have similar representation, same time answering to other known criteria & hints?

  • Timar

    Jean Manning on her visit to Defkalion – Peter Gluck writes:

    “A good friend, a leading personality of the New Energy Movement, the Canadian writer, Jeane Manning has visited the labs of Defkalion Green Technologies at Vancouver and has published this fine frontline report.”

    http://changingpower.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Defkalion-2-page-JM-Article-100-3.pdf

    See also Peter Gluck’s LENR+ manifesto in the same blog post:

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.fr/2013/05/jeane-manning-writes-about-defkalion.html

    • khawk

      What does everyone think of this quote from Defkalion management in 2011? Also, sounds like the NI Week demo is now a slidedeck – hope the pathos have mercy on them.

      “Let’s say I have the formula of Rossi, but I’m not saying it officially. My scientists found a way to make it. They need three months.”

      That is what Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology’s owners, told Ny Teknik in a telephone conversation on August 5, 2011.

      “I know what he’s got in the reactor, I know everything. It was a spectroscopy made by the University of Siena Padua. (…) They tried his reactor without him understanding what they did,” he continued.

      UPDATED (Dec 1): Defkalion has clarified that it was the University of Padua, where an anaylis of used Nickel powder actually was performed, commissioned by Rossi./End update

    • Sanjeev

      Good write up, but, it seems, DGT is now hiding the fact that they got the tech from Rossi. The article makes it appear as if they independently discovered it by long and tedious experimentation.

      It also mentions plasma, which is a new thing for me.

      • AlainCo

        it is clear that even knowing the rossi recipe, they invented their own very different method.
        Rossi don’t use plasma, not foam, and given his theoretical discussion in 2011, he did not inspire defkalion much about their crystallography design.

        maybe the make a very different design to avoid IP problem, but also maybe because thermal shock (they describe rossi as based on thermal shock) is not stable and hard to control…

  • Stew

    Ah, finally those robots which had been ordered and programmed a long time ago come into play…

    >>
    Silvio Caggia
    June 1st, 2013 at 5:32 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    You say your Partner is preparing automated lines for mass production…
    But mass production of what modules? Warm e-cat? E-cat HT? E-cat HT2? E-tiger? Onion-cat? Else?

    Andrea Rossi
    June 1st, 2013 at 5:49 AM
    Silvio Caggia:
    E-Cat low temperature
    Hot Cats
    Both as modules of 1 MW plants (so far).
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    <<

  • lenrdawn

    “You can imagine what will happen after it will be known where our plants are operating”

    I don’t really see that being much of a problem. The locations of Rossi’s labs (so far the only places disclosed where plants are supposed to be operating) are well known but I haven’t heard anything about LENR groupies clogging the streets of Ferrara or Levi not reporting to work on time because he had to fight his way through dense clouds of investigative journalists at the Bologna airport. There would be inquiries, of course, but if those would lead to some positive PR, they would certainly eclipse whatever impact the 3rd party report had. So I’d see no real harm – but then I don’t see a real upside for the customer either, so we probably just have to accept it as one of those things we’d really like to know but don’t get to see because we’re ultimately irrelevant to how this plays out (thank God for that).

    • Roger Bird

      It is my observation and belief that most reporters are extremely shallow in their thinking. For one thing, they have to know a little bit about just about everything, from Beyonce’s toenail color to what the President said yesterday at lunch. And this picture makes them seem sharper and deeper than they really are. It simply would not impact a reporter’s heart/mind that a completely new energy source that is almost ideal in every respect would be world shakingly important. To them, screaming teenage girls are a sign of something important happening, not COP calculations and hot cylinders staying hot for hundreds of hours.

      So I don’t think that Levi et. al. need to worry about bevies of reporters pestering them at the airport.

    • Bob

      I tend to agree. Most people either would have only a passing interest in the matter or more likely, couldn’t care less. If it was any different, the papers would be full of every announcement and utterance from the Rossi blogs, similar to what we see on this web site, and clearly they are not. In fact so far, barely a mention. Some people put this down to the influence of big oil or political pressure. When has that ever stopped the news media reporting whatever they wanted, even to the complete detriment of the very powers and authorities which some people would believe are directing the course of media discussion on this event?
      The logical conclusion is that they couldn’t care less because they still believe it is all horse feathers.

      If the location of a working plant was made public there would certainly be an initial flurry of interest from the few who take an interest in such things and some would be talking about it, but nothing which would in any way cramp the normal activities of the business which was running the device.
      As stated in the previous post, where were the teams of lenr groupies plaguing Rossi’s Bologna factory and Ferarra factory?
      And if there were any, even a few, what would they see?
      Even if everything was running all at once, what would they see? or hear?
      It’s not like the next Airbus would launch out of the factory door or anything like it. If there is a revolution taking place, (and there well might be), it is a very quiet one.
      Every business uses their existing customers as a recommendation in their advertising to validate their product and attract new customers.
      They take great pride in compiling a list of their customers, and the bigger the better.
      I think it would do a lot more good than harm to make public each and every installation.

  • Stefan

    Hurra Burra Basse Nasse,

    Someone at Vortex-l is supposed to have made a reasonable SPICE mathematical model of the ECAT

    is the tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPICE ?

    And seams to have a detail confirmation that the suggested physics is well in line with what we see in the temperature output e.g. coherent.

    Under the scam hypothesis Rossi must have a very good knowledge how this
    system is supposed to behave. It is not so easy now to say that this is a proof of a no scam, but for sure the output seams to be coherent with probable physics under the assumption that this is functioning LENR device.

    Cheers
    /Stefan

  • Ed Young

    I haven’t read all the comments above, so please pardon if this has already been mentioned. I keep thinking back to a while ago when typing in “ecat.com” (or something thereabouts) would result in a redirect to Google’s green initiatives homepage. How I wish the u.s. partner to be Google, (however unlikely)- that would be brilliant! Any one have any wild speculations on this?

  • Jordi Heguilor

    I would like to point to a little contradiction:

    1) Rossi says that he’s building robotized factories for the production of the “home” E-cat. If you know anything about robotics, he’s saying that he’s investing billions of dollars.

    2) He’s selling country distributorships for a measly 400.000 dollars total. I mean 400K for all countries together.

    I cannot prove that this is a scam, but from a business point of view it does not make sense.

    • Roger Bird

      Business people often “brag” or vent about things that they are going to do but have not yet done, particularly to people who don’t really count, like us. I like to talk to my dogs. I don’t make a whole lot of sense when I do, but what are they going to do about it? They adore me and will listen to any kind of garbage that comes out of my mouth. And I am always very kind and loving towards them. In the same way, Rossi will deliver, even if the fine details don’t always make a lot of sense. Think of us as his psychotherapists, and his problem is that he has an excess of excitement and needs someone to vent at.

      • Jordi Heguilor

        Roger, you and I may look at this with amusement (at least I do) but if people are buying distributorships based on factories that don’t exist, this is fraud, not “venting”. If Rossi needs psychotherapy, he needs a shrink, not misled investors.

        • Roger Bird

          Jordi, please don’t start telling me that you are worrying about investors and that this is what keeps you up at night writing comments to this site. This is exactly what the skeptopaths say, yet they are as uncharitable in every aspect of their posts as can be, including but not limited to calling innocent people crooks.