Rossi Update: E-Cat Built Solely By Partner Works Perfectly

This seems to be an important update from Andrea Rossi posted on the JONP:

The past three days have been holidays for most, but for us have been a tremendous period of work during which we made a historic page for what concerns our tech: for the first time, an E-Cat module, entirely produced by our USA Partner in the new factory ( a magnificence), charged with the charge made by the Partner’s CEO, using the materials we teached to buy, prepare,manipulate, treat, to make the charges, assembled , insulated, has started its operation, and the results are the same of the E-Cats built by us. This event means that for the first time an E-Cat not built by me, not controlled by me and not charged by me, not tested in my factory, but manufactured from third parties upon our instructions and know how has worked properly. This is the first unit of the plant that will give to the factory of our USA Partner all its necessary thermal energy, and is also the school ship for the employees. It is very important that it has been completely made by the Customer, not by me: it is the first of millions, but the first is always special. We celebrated with Coca Cola ( alcohol is forbidden in that factory). All the former plants, even if built in the USA, had been supplied with reactors cores made by me, so this is a very important step.

It would seem from this report that this is a very important step. The partner now can apparently independently manufacture E-Cats without any input from Rossi. This news should help to calm the fears of those who wonder what might happen to the technology if Rossi is no longer with us. The instructions AR has provided seem to be good ones, and it will be very difficult now to snuff out this technology with all the necessary data secured with a corporation.

One interesting detail provided here is where Rossi says that the charge was “made by the partner’s CEO”, which implies that the CEO is personally involved in the manufacture of the E-Cat — perhaps the only person in the company who knows the secrets?

Also it’s interesting to see that the purpose of the first E-Cat is to provide heat for the factory where further E-Cats will be manufacured. That will be an important testbed for the technology. In a separate comment he says this heating will start this year. And, he says, millions more to come now — I wonder how long it will be before we find out where all this action is taking place.

  • Karl

    This is certainly very very encouraging news. It came when I started to be worried about Rossi if something happened to him because of recent quietness and his talk about personal threats.

  • Gerrit

    “made by the partner’s CEO” excludes most blue chip companies. This sounds more like an Elon Musk kind of CEO.

    The detractors will probably say that Rossi is executing his exit strategy and will now soon run with the money and disappear.

  • Einar

    As others have observed, Andrea Rossi’s written English is suddenly much improved, as well as punctuation etc. My guess is that he dictates his posts to an American assistant, who does the actual writing/posting.

    • Bruce Williams

      This news is VERY encouraging, let’s hope there is lots more to come!

      As far as Andrea’s English is concerned, I dont see any change compared with his previous notes.However, since he is now totally immersed in an English-speaking environment,some improvement is to be expected.

    • Thinks4Self

      Maybe he just got a new smart phone with spell and grammar check.

  • Gerrit

    “alcohol is forbidden in that factory”

    really hard to imagine that Rossi is making everything up, the whole ecat, the US partner, the factory, but mentions the detail that “alcohol is forbidden in that factory”

    • Gerrit

      or maybe, just maybe Rossi is trying to give us a hint …

      It could apply to the current Tesla factory in Fremont, which is a cooperation with Toyota (ring a bell?).

      In the old days, before 1982, this car factory in Fremont had a very bad reputation because, amongst other things, “Employees drank alcohol on the job” … “and would put coke bottles inside door panels”. see wikipedia on “NUMMI”

      I’ll go with Tesla motors for the US Partner, and thus Elon Musk as the CEO, and the Factory is the Tesla factory. There must be enough floorspace available there to build an assembly line for ecats.

      Anybody live near Fremont, California ?

      Please, go sit outside the plant with your camera for a week and see if you spot Rossi.


    • Andrew Macleod

      Could just mean that the factory is in a “dry” area/state, I thought alcohol would be forbidden at any factory due to health and safety concerns.

  • Svein

    Very good news. I still wonder who this partner is. Rossi told us he is warking full time as the chief scientist of the USA Concern.
    Is that his new partner?

    • SammyM

      Strange that no one else has picked up on this. On July 5th Rossi answering a question to Michel on JONP wrote:

      ‘Andrea Rossi
      July 5th, 2013 at 7:54 AM

      R&D involves our technology in all its aspects, and all the tests we are making are at the base of the evolution of all our present and future line of production. As the chief scientist of the USA Concern, this is my main duty.
      Warm Regards,

      Svein Utne’s follow up question was:

      ‘Svein Utne
      July 5th, 2013 at 8:46 AM
      Dear Andrea Rossi,
      Are you working for the “USA Concern”?
      Svein Utne’

      Rossi’s answer was:

      ‘Andrea Rossi
      July 5th, 2013 at 11:24 AM
      Svein Utne:
      Yes, full time now.
      Warm Regards,

      So the question is what exactly does he mean? What is “USA Concern”?
      A google search gives the link you gave above. Is Rossi’s partner a non-profit organization? Just speculating but his answer is rather cryptic.

      • Svein

        Maybe I need to ask Rossi again more specific if his partner is USA Concern and have the website

        • Svein

          I did ask Rossi, and he answered yes to be working for USA Concern, but not the company having the website:
          So the guessing game continues…

  • Redford

    Former plants? This is very puzzling.

    • Gerrit

      “former plants” as in former 1MW plants == sea containers full of ecat cores.

      “former plants” not meaning former factories.

  • For such a statement I’m waiting for since Rossi said he has a big manufacturing partner.

    Now they can optimize the production and hopefully speed it up to produce more than one plant a month. Would be nice to hear how many they can produce in a week.

    BTW: Maybe the company is coca cola? Or why should he mention the trade mark name? Why he has not said “coke”? 😉

    • pg

      That would make Coca Cola’s CEO the holder of the two most sought after secret formulas in history.
      Just hiding them in good spots must be giving him a headache.
      Let’s hope the guy does not mix the 2 formulas ingredients up… (fortunately alcohol is forbidden there)

      • MStone

        How do you know that Coca-Cola ISN”T the secret ingredient to the e-cat?…hmmmmmm.

        (putting pinky to side of mouth)

        • Chris I

          Ya knever nowz… it might have even been the very first thing Rossi tried when he thought of finding some chemical additive…

          • MStone

            Don’t rule out the Colonels secret spices either.

    • Edenloth

      coca cola is how you call it in many countries specially in the older generations

      • MStone

        Hu. I thought I was the only one that noticed that. Decided not to say anything about it though. I think we in the US and maybe GB are the only ones running around calling it coke. Maybe Australia too…I forget.

        • Miles

          Yes, we call it Coke here in Australia too.

  • Arthur B

    This is great. It confirms my speculation posted earlier.

    I bet that the hot E-Cats will be supplying the electrical power by sometime next year. Then the factory will be 100% E-Cat driven. I tremendous inspiration for all the potential customers.

    By-the-way. My guess is that the E-Cat shipped to the USA about a couple of months ago, also is now installed in the new E-Cat Factory.

    • MStone

      99% e-cat driven. See my comments above. Hehe.

  • Jouni tuomela

    part of a patent application:

    “EXAMPLE 10 [0358] Reaction material for the thermal- energy producing system was prepared from the following constituents. Nickel nanopowder (40 g) having an average particle size of 10 nm was mixed with 10 g of multiferroic bismuth ferrite BiFe03 crystallite powder having particle size range of about 100 nm – 1000 nm. BiFeOs crystallite powder was prepared by mechanically crushing commercial BiFeOs sputtering target to powder. The precursors for the catalyst enhancing the formation of Rydberg matter comprised 85 wt% iron oxide Fe203, 12 wt. % potassium hydroxide KOH and 3 wt% aluminum oxide AI2O3. The precursor mixture was heated to 400 – 450 °C in the presence of hydrogen gas to form Fe304:K20,Al203. The calcined catalyst powder was then mechanically crushed to catalyst nanopowder that had particle size range of about 10 – 100 nm. About 2.0 g of the catalyst nanopowder was added to the Ni – BiFe03 mixture and the powder mixture was placed to the reaction cartridge.”

    • hempenearth

      Why did you pick this part to highlight Jouni?

  • Jeff Clark

    All the sceptics will be silenced when the Stirling engine gets connected. The unit will be plugged into a wall outlet to get it going. When the engine kicks in, it will produce the electricity to keep the E-Cat running. Then the moment happens…The day of true independence..Rossi unplugs the E-Cat from the wall outlet. There it will be, self sustaining and still enough power to light up the neon sign that says “WINNING”. The day that happens, it will be forever remembered as a holiday and Rossi will be known as “Legend”.

    • MStone

      Some of the experimental e-cats have been designed to be self-sustaining. But, the commercial e-cats are not. This is, in part, done to comply with the safety regulations. But, I support your enthusiasm.

      • Thinks4Self

        As long as there is an off switch or breaker there would be compliance for safety. What would not meet safety regulations is an E-Cat that can’t be stopped by flipping a switch but instead is stopped by rapidly cooling it with water or other coolant.

        • Warthog

          I suspect that the final “fail-safe” will be a way to quickly drop the internal hydrogen pressure. I think heating/cooling will be used for immediate control, as done with the “Hot-Cat”.

    • Hampus

      The skeptics will be silenced long before that when thermal plants start to be sold all over the world. Maybe Sweden will be the first country to have a public open plant to maybe USA. But it will happen this year.

      • MStone

        I don’t know….6 months? I’m thinking a 2014 roll-out. That is still PDQ. Arguably faster than Intel’s tick-tock strategy which is, also, PDQ.

    • Stephen

      …and I really and honestly hope to see that: let us hope it is true!
      Yet the usual story-telling goes on.
      One skeptic.

      PS the idea of the CEO rolling up his sleeves and going down on the production line and building the eCat charges with his hands… is quite bizarre, to say the least (must be a mistake I guess…?).

      • Mannstein

        No many CEO’s are directly involved in R&D. The company I worked for had the founder and CEO doing both jobs for better than 35 years.

        • Jim

          My understanding is that Intel’s Andy Grove was pretty hands on way into the multi-billion dollar revenue range. Easy to imagine him being in the room when a new technology was launched.

      • Fisher

        If the e-cat is real and the world is about to receive its answer to fossil fuels, don’t you think the ceo would want to fire up the first one and be a part of one of the greatest moments in human history since the steam engine? This isn’t exactly another design for a refrigerator…

        • Stringbustr


      • Roger Bird

        Unless of course he realized that he was making history, and/or Rossi wanted him and him alone to handle the catalyst.

      • TPaign

        Dean Kamen???

        • Ric Werme

          Oh my, I never considered him, and I live in New Hampshire. (I even had a couple job interviews at Segway). I had been thinking GE or Siemens, but if the CEO mixed the secret formula, Kamen would be an ideal match. Brash enough to think he could pull it off, clever enough to do it, experienced enough to ride things through a massive scaleup with folks like GE or Siemens.

          It’s an easy bicycle ride from Kamen’s home to Leonardo’s offices, at least if they haven’t moved in the last couple of years.

          It would be really neat if they did this in DEKA’s old woolen mill that had high tech water power a century ago.

        • Ric Werme

          Google hasn’t heard anything except this bit if bicycling news.

          Enrico Rossi of Team Meridiana Kamen won the opening stage of the Giro di Padania on Monday.

      • Hal

        I’m sure Mr Truchard of NI would insist on it

      • MStone

        Not quite bizarre…not at all.

        It is noteworthy that Coca-Cola was mentioned by Rossi in this post. Coca-Cola is a perfect example of a trade secret not being covered by a patent.

        All of the Coca-Cola in all the world is handled by about 12 core guys in the company. Thats 12 guys that know and deliver the secret ingredients of Coca-Cola to all the bottling companies of the world. Crazy hu. That is exactly like the CEO of this company being the only one handing the “secret ingredients”….makes perfect sense.

        However, it does seem to rule out a GE level company….but we will see.

    • Ric Werme

      Stirling engine. Hmm. Dean Kamen spent a lot of time on those and has several patents. I think he was interested in small ones for Segway, but an E-Cat variant would be interesting. (I think steam turbine, megawatt scale would be the better market, though.)

  • Roger Bird

    So, I am sitting here in Colorado at 6700 feet above sea level, and heating my “factory” even at 3:00 A.M. is not something that jumps into my mind and won’t for several months. Is this a clue that Rossi’s factory is not in Florida, where it is much warmer.

    • Fisher

      I took the “heating” comment to mean it was heating as part of the process to make electricity…but I could be wrong.

    • Hal

      Thermal heat is equally useful for air-con 🙂

    • Thinks4Self

      Northern Florida needs heat in the winter time, like the Jacksonville area. So maybe his factory is in the northern part of the state. But, it even gets down to freezing a couple nights per winter in the orange groves in central Florida.

  • Andre Blum

    “charge made by the CEO” I thought is crooked english for the CEO *ceremonially* loading the first charge module, as if cutting a ribbon at an opening.

    • Jim


    • atanguy

      “charge made by the CEO”
      “millions of e-cat”
      This CEO is going to be busy 😉
      Let me have the name of this CEO,I will send him a bottle of champagne!
      Coca cola – What a pity…

  • Gerrit

    Panasonic apparently has developed a small scale device with “fuse function” that can “generate anomalous heat”.

    amazing …

    • daniel maris

      Feel like being the toddler in the car who whinges: “Are we there yet?”

      I guess “Nearly darling.” Is the answer…

      As for the suggestion this is Rossi’s “exit strategy” coming into play it has to be said that it differs greatly from known scammers who more usually just go quiet with a few lame excuses. Rossi is ramping it up the other way…so not the usual scammers’ strategy.

      • Anonymous

        Why would a SD card generate “anomalous heat” 🙂

        Panasonic is releasing a micro SDHC memory card (4GB, 8GB, 16GB and 32GB) with 6 “Proof” performances: waterproof, static electrical resistance, magnetic resistance, X-ray resistance, and heat resistance on July 13.

        It also has “fuse” function that protects the device from heat and fire generation if the micro SDHC memory card happens to generate anomalous heat.

        The microSD card’s new standard “UHS-I (Ultra High Speed-I)” allows this product to reach to a fast transfer rate: Read 45MB/s, Write 12MB/s

        • Roger Bird

          There have been confirmed reports not carefully measured of “anomalous heat” with batteries. That term was used to explain batteries bursting into flames.

    • Chris I

      I doubt they mean the word anomalous in the same sense here, it would be meant simply as the event of a fault occurring.

  • Pierre

    E-lon needs the E-cat both for Tesla and for SpaceX.

    • Jim


    • Thor

      I was thinking about that possibility too… Musk strikes me as a pretty hands on kinda guy, is open to new ideas, and recently mentioned a technology breaktrough that would make his “Hyperloop” possible. I guess we’ll find out eventually.

  • Julian Becker

    The CEO comment also makes me think that it could not be GE or Siemens. Those companies have CEOs which have never seen a production plant or machine from inside. Only Harvard Business School guys….

    • Bob

      Yes. Some time back there was a thread here which asked who we thought the partner might be.
      There were good reasons given why it was not any public company.
      For some reason, that advice has been almost totally ignored and the popular opinion still seems to be that it will be some big public company.
      It will not be.
      I think most will be very disappointed when the secret partner finally becomes known.

  • elasticbucket

    I wonder if Mr. Rossi now has a pocket full of funds (discovery appears to be over for LENR)and plans to address some previous projects of his, particularly, since he has a “reliable” cheap source of energy to utilize?

    • elasticbucket

      hmmm was to edit …for LENR)and…

  • John Littlemist
    • daniel maris

      …and? Can you explain the significance of that comment?

      • John Littlemist
        • sam


          I guess somebody put a little thought into that patent ap. i wonder what this will mean for Rossi and his partner. I seems like they covered alot of bases that Rossi has been treading on! WOW!


      • Hampus

        Etiams is a company that claims over 10 cop LENR. And they have given a lot of information in their patent.

    • Pachu

      Thanks i find more interest this story than Rossi’s says.

      The patent has incredible details, the use of titanium for example, and the fact how it references rydberg matter been filled ebfore DGT mention they process….

    • John Littlemist

      Kai-Erik Elers is the chairman of the board of Etiam Oy.
      Other board members are:
      Pekka Soininen
      Ville Saanila

      • Pachu

        Dr. Jukka Heikkinen must be another player:


        Written by
        Dr. Jukka Heikkinen, Principal Scientist, VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland

        • Roger Bird

          So, is little ol’ humble Finland going to win this race? “Finland for the Win!!!”

  • RAJ

    “We did ban alcohol from the premises, as people can get a little crazy,” Elon Musk said. (From an article on SpaceX in the Guardian.)

  • Brian

    I get the impression that the “partner” is the type of very small research/development operation in which the CEO might also be the the lead researcher.

    • lcd

      yes I agree

    • Roger Bird

      I doubt it and I hope not.

    • Bob

      That may be.
      Those who have been following this for a while might remember that we have been down this path before and it turned out that the powerful new partner was Defkalion Green Technologies.
      I think, or is that hope? well both I guess,.. I think this partner might be of a somewhat higher calibre than Defkalion but I don’t know by how much.
      We shall see, or not, as the case may be.

  • Sandy

    Elon Musk would be a good choice to be Rossi’s manufacturing partner. Together, they could build E-Cats that can be put in a homeowner’s garage. The E-Cats could generate electricity that keeps Tesla Motors electric automobiles charged. And the Rossi/Musk partnership could put E-Cat powered public charging stations in parking lots all over America and the world.

    • lcd

      hypothetically speaking, you wood nit need charging stations, the cat could be made to charge the car or outright power

      hypothetically speaking they would CLEAN UP

      • Roger Bird

        If Rossi used the word “charge”, I don’t think that an assistant would have corrected him since “charge” would be a technical/scientific word. I would guess that for an inexpensive assistant, he would have to hire someone who was not technically savvy, and a 1/2 way decent assistant would have the good sense that he/she should not try to correct technical words. And Rossi is still not fluent in English.

        • Sandy

          Roger, by “charge” I meant storing electrical energy in the batteries of an electrically powered automobile. This kind of charging should be distinguished from charging an E-Cat by putting powdered nickel and hydrogen gas and secret catalysts into the E-Cat’s reaction chamber.

    • daniel maris

      The E cat might also be useful in space exploration.

      • Sandy

        Daniel, George Miley is trying to make a LENR device that can be put into vehicles designed to operate in outer space. His device is based on James A. Patterson’s “Power Cell”, which included thin films of nickel and palladium and nickel on plastic beads invented and patented by Dr. Patterson.


        • daniel maris

          It would be v. useful on Mars (where Musk wants to get to) but getting the equipment there is a problem. If E Cats could be manufactured on Mars that would be brilliant.

  • John De Herrera

    “we made a historic page for what concerns our tech: for the first time, an E-Cat module, entirely produced by our USA Partner in the new factory”
    This is significant news! A USA Partner with substantial capability and resources, can get this show on the road quickly. Soon, we will see installed working reactors open for public viewing – and the world will be a MUCH BETTER PLACE FOR ALL!
    I trust Rossi, and all those who haave vouched for him and his invention. I DONT TRUST THE SKEPTICAL DEBUNKERS AND THEIR NEGTIVE VIEW OF COLD FUSION. jdh

  • pg

    Hi Pekka,

    Sorry to bother you from time to time.

    Do you have any insight about Etiam Oy and the researchers mentioned with regards to the cold fusion patent?

    It would be good to know something more about them.

    Thank you

  • ACG

    If and when E-cat and LENR every come to pass (pushing how many years now) will only but used as a tool against the people.

    • Andrew Macleod

      I hope that’s not the case. Either way good or bad historic events are taking place that will forever change the world.

    • Shane D.

      At least we will be able to harm one another with an environmentally friendly technology.

      • Thinks4Self

        We’ve been able to that for millennia.

        Stick and stones are about a green as you can get for weapons technology.

      • Barry

        Heh heh heh.

    • MStone

      OK. Thats like a “the moon landings didn’t happen” statement. Exactly how will this invention be used against the peoples?

      • orsobubu

        There is something true in that concept. Tenths of times I uselessly tried to explain in this site that any technology is secondary respect to the economic production system, and economy is basically a social relationship. In capitalism, the most important factor is the exchange value, so LENR could be a fantastic progress concerning its use value, but in capitalism the ruling class has one goal, to extract surplus value from the exploited wage workers. LENR has the characteristic to be easily robotized and requires infinitely less workers than traditional energetic industries, so it will not be a welcomed technology by the bourgeoise, which can extort its profits exclusively (on average) increasing the exploitation. If LENR will survive and win, it could be a key factor in a global restructuring industrial process, with all the related consequences: deflation, extreme competition, crisis, failures, unemployment, overproduction and – obviously – wars. In this last field, LENR will surely find the ideal application for the capitalist class: new weapons to destroy the society and rebuild. Details in evergreen Marx and Lenin’ works.

        • Barry

          Mine is a vision of more freedom and change of the power structure of the world. CF will take energy from the powers that be and put it in the hands of the people. How can it not?

          • orsobubu

            Surely it could, but, previously, people need to seize the political power by revolution. It seems to me you are talking about CF like it was a phsiycal, social entity! Like any other science, it’s only an ideology made by humans. Yours is an idealistic way of thinking, mine is materialistic. The material world creates the consciousness, the ideas, not the contrary. And, inside the same material world, you have to distinguish which factor is the more important. It is not true that, where the trade arrives, the weapons don’t pass. Exactly the opposite. After the weapons have passed, then come the trades. If you want to change the game, you need to change the material, economic system of production and establish the communism (which is not the soviet-like state capitalism). To do that, you’ve to wipe out the bourgeoise first, or they will use any imaginable horrific violence to manitain their privileges, by now based upon the old production system of exchange value (money and capital accumulated by bourgeoises) instead of user value (scientific programming to benefit the mankind).

          • Roger Bird

            Wrong, consciousness creates the material world. Baby making merely allows for consciousness a place to land and identify with and grow in. Yours is a most depressing philosophy that my experience and the experience of those I love and admire is at variance with, and I will NEVER agree with such garbage. I suggest that you try to work your way out of your degenerate state of consciousness and try to see and be higher. Otherwise you will never find real happiness.

            And thanks for clarifying the differences between us.

            And I notice that you say that your ideas will not result in a Soviet style system. But how else could a dictatorship of the proletariats end?

          • orsobubu

            Just the contrary. Your idealistic, old Kantian/Hegelian-style philosophy is the obstacle the workers need to abolish to establish themselves as the ruling class.
            Dictatorship of the proletariats? is this idea so strange to you? We live in the dictatorship of the capitalists era, so an expansion by a factor of 100.000 of the ruling people’ basis should be a fantastic achievement also for you.
            Soviet system? It was a full-fledged state capitalistic system (money, market, banks, wage work…), and indeed Stalin killed all the bolscheviks. Soviet system and all the other fascist regimes are established when capitalist cannot permit democracy, due to particular economic or social conditions. It is funny to see how America is switching right in our decades from a free-market, liberal economy to a state-capitalist, fascist regime. It is your capitalist world that is resulting in your nightmare.

          • Rockyspoon

            I’ve never met a “worker” who could conceptualize, engineer, fund, build or perfect whatever they worked on for a mere 8 hours a day.

            You do realize it takes many years of advanced training, years of experience, and a high level of dedication and drive to achieve the industrial and technological marvels we all enjoy, right? And such people work 50 to 60 hours a week, not 34 to 40.

            You may think it is funny to see America switch from a free-market economy to a state-capitalist, fascist regime, but that isn’t going to be beneficial in the long run, orso.

            Big Government-dominated companies are inefficient, wasteful, and beligerent–and treat their workers like second-class citizens. Just examine the situation in China closely to see what I’m talking about.

            No, the “capitalist world” you describe will throw off the shackles of Big Government and move into a new era of individual prosperity with the E-Cat supplying the energy.

            It will be a wonderful dream, not the nightmare you foolishly envision.

          • orsobubu

            rocky, perhaps I explained my points in a bad english, obviously I’m absolutely an enemy to all fascist, soviet-like, state capitalistic regimes. Much better the free market paradigm. But it is a fact that the world is going toward a new big miltary confrontation, because lacking of physical space to expand the markets and the profit sage and this is the tragic limit of capitalism. Communism (completely different from state capitalism) will be the next big leap in mankind history, the only system able to prosper with new robotized technologies. You have to study The Capital to understand. This century will see the return to Karl Marx.

          • Roger Bird

            Yeah, orsobubu, Marxism worked so good last century that people will rush to duplicate it in the 21st century, I’m sure.

          • Job001

            Bourgeoises is not a permanent thing, the economic system is not a permanent thing, accumulated capital is not a permanent thing, productivity and innovation are not a permanent things. Your obsolete thesis is impermanent and is thus subject to unpredictable change.
            “Bourgeoises” is an old fashion term from a century ago and the economic and productivity changes since then are immense, including innovation and the discovery of LENR energy.
            LENR energy will happen because globally no bourgeoises is fully in control and the force behind the energy revolution will soon become unstoppable. Major economic forces cannot afford to not to assume LENR leadership, so, in-spite of the write-offs they shall.

          • orsobubu

            Exactly. Capitalism is not a permanent social relationship. You are a good marxist, in perspective. You need to work a little bit on dialectical materialism to clean away your idealistic wastes, so I suggest Antiduhring by Engels or Materialism and empiriocriticism by Lenin. About LENR, look at the internet: servers are not in the people’ hands, but in the bourgeoises hands. When they will represent a menace, they will close them. It already happens.

          • Rockyspoon

            How well did Engel’s or Lenin’s or Marx’s theories work in the USSR, orso?

            Pretty dismal results, weren’t they! How many people died from the wars and famine and desolation caused by those theories?

            Enough to recommend them as the panacea to the world’s problems?

            I think you’ve been brainwashed, orso–just like your Soviet or Red Chinese masters. To say their implementation of outmoded and disproven ideologies is superior simply isn’t supported by the results.

            And in a results-driven world, nobody would seriously take that approach.

          • orsobubu

            About bourgeoise: it is just the scientific term specifying the owners of the means of production. Since monopolistic economy is the present condition of our imperialistic age, the bourgeoise class is really more powerful than ever.

          • Rockyspoon

            And yet everybody argues there’s a huge transfer of wealth from the worker to the master.

            Doesn’t sound like the bourgeoise class is making any headway, orso.

          • orsobubu

            it is powerful right because of this transfer

          • Jim

            So robots replace all human labor, and the capitalists still insist on getting paid for the goods that are produced, but everyone is unemployed, so they don’t have any money to buy those goods, so we all starve while the police and armed forces continue protecting the factories…on what planet?

          • Roger Bird

            I think that what you are saying, Jim, is that we will adjust. Given the Internet and soon to be LENR, our ability to adjust will be greatly increased over yesteryears.

          • Ted-X

            We all will become bourgeois with 3D printers. 🙂
            Pure logic.

          • orsobubu

            Ted, and from where in the earth do you extract the surplus value with 3d printers? We are in a crisis already today, because market cannot extract all the necessary capital from diminishing workers (in the western countries), and you want to substitute factories with 3d printing? Prepare for a far biggest crisis

          • orsobubu

            You didn’t understand. Capitalist will make war to avoid this scenario. They need workers to exploit: they are forced to automation by competition, but the result is overproduction and fall of the profit rate. To avoid workers’ revolution establish a more advanced, communist economic system, they are ready to go to war. It is not science fiction. It already happened in XX century and, since competition, automation and lack of new territories to expand the capitalistic system, it will happen again.

          • G_Zingh

            Capitalists don’t have a monopoly on exploitation of the worker, the communists have been doing this for years, but I don’t think economic evolution is set in stone. Instead of manufacturing one billion pieces of brand X and driving up unemployment there exists the possibility that only a thousand pieces of brand X will be built and then people will be employed designing and testing brand Xa, then brand Xb then brand Xc etc.

            Perhaps in the future you will drive a car that is custom tailored to who you are with a gazillion accessories for the same price you pay today. How labor intensive would that be? Multiply that by a billion. Now tell me where is the unemployment?

          • orsobubu

            Zingh, communism never existed to date, aside as a mccharthystic or stalinist ideology. You are talking about state capitalism: wage work, banks, money, market… OK? You can study Bordiga textbooks and learn quite a lot. But is there anybody here that studied political economy???

          • Barry

            orso, you are highly wrapped up in abstraction. I can only except your paradigm of reality to a certain degree. You’re over thinking, I just want to heat my house in the winter without spending $800 a month (old house). New paradigms are happening, old forms are dying off.

          • Roger Bird

            Well put.

          • orsobubu

            You’re surely right, I’m a materialist and could never imagine to abstract from reality, and the economic reality tells what you’ve said. just because this will be the nexy probable reality, we’ve to be ready for the unintended consequencies, because new technologies imply deeper future fall of profit rates, and capitalism will be stretched further its own rupture limits. Bourgeoises want the price be paid by workers, as ever.

        • Roger Bird

          I threw up after reading your post. [Not really, but it is a nice picture of how I feel.]

          There is no ruling class. There is more power at the top per person, which fades gradually as one goes down the wealth slope. But there are far more people in the middle. Marx had no idea of a middle class because in his day there was none. There was also no middle class in Lenin’s world. The middle class basically rules and rich people just hang on hoping that the middle and lower classes don’t vote for higher taxes.

          But the classifications of upper, middle, and lower are bogus. There is no fine line between either class, and there is no reason that someone in the lower class can’t make it to the upper class, and most upper class people got there after having been born and raised in the middle and lower class. My wife has poor, but she owns shares in mutual funds that own shares in big corporations. And my son was born in the lower middle class, or is that the upper lower class, and he will end up in the lower upper class because he wants to be and will become a lawyer.

          The concept of ruling class is pure, unadulterated hogwash, fit only for people consumed by envy and resentment and who don’t have the ‘nads to do the work necessary to climb higher economically.

          • orsobubu

            Middle class? It is only an ideology created in an unique era of imperialistic economic expansion in the western world, especially in US. America is losing this supremacy, a good number of rising imperialistic geopolitical powers are already threatening the status quo. Your “middle class” will soon decade into flat proletariat. In capitalism, workers – on average – can exclusively get what they need to survive and reproduce in their specific historical conditions. America exceptional historical condition was consequence of its relentless wars, at others’ expenses. The only possibility for your “middle class” to survive is that America embark in a real big global war. And win it.

          • RGCheek

            Old analysis there buckaroo, using out-dated economic models. Economics is about to be ripped inside out.

            There will be a joblessness-to-self-sufficiency bottleneck of sorts as we go from macro driven economics to micro driven economics, where each person makes most of what he needs via 3D printing, nano-manufacturing, etc.
            But it will happen. This is why so many companies are obsessed with nailing down the IR for anything remotely related to their products as they realize we will all be able to make our own consumables increasingly as time goes on.

            Yes, the bottleneck will last a decade or two, but eventually no one will have to work to feed themselves and their families or provide any other necessities. They will simply get raw materials from their locale and make whatever they need for themselves using open source designs.

            Cheer up.

          • orsobubu

            If nobody works, where is the capital coming from? Have you a pale idea which distasters of historical proportions were caused in the past by the fall of profit rate?

          • RGCheek

            capital would then be in the form of micromanufacture: 3d printers, nanomanufacturing, nanorecycling at home, etc. Ever see the 3d machine that literally print a full scale functioning house?

            Buying food will be about the only burden left.

            Profit will be in the form of individual production being individually consumed for serious savings.

          • orsobubu

            RG, you have not a clue about what is a “profit”. Sorry. A 3d machine building houses would destroy the basic economy of a nation, with millions of angry low level workers ravaging through the streets, and no profits to be made: you cannot extract surplus value from robots. Perhaps you intend a communist economy, and this is another question, but there is a revolution to be made, first.

          • Rockyspoon

            In a socialistic/Marxist society, capital comes from taxing the population, but here’s the catch–those directing utilization of the capital are typically clueless what to do with it.

            Are you going to have uneducated workers design the marvels of technology and industry? No, it won’t happen–the acumen needed won’t be available.

            So you have a centralized economy wasting what precious capital it can scrape together, and nobody trained to develop new products and services.

            “Workers” only put things together–they don’t determine what things are needed, how they’re designed, or what makes them work.

          • orsobubu

            rocky, it is clear to me you don’t know what is coomuunism, what is state-capitalism, what is the proletariat, what is a capitalist. Should study at least Antiduhring by Engels. For example, what you call the makers of our marvels, are simply proletarians like you and me. You never met real capitalists, I suppose. They don’t work, neither their families. the work is made by their proletarians, directors, managers, researchers. Above all, scientifically, capital is only produced by those “low level workers” in chinese factories. An inventor produces user value, not exchange value. Exchange value is produced, mathematically, only by exèploited wage work. But it is impossible to explain here, study The Capital for yourself.

          • AlainCo

            what you describe as capitalist is in fact a retired, or equity holder.

            Today entrepreuneur have to work or their company collapse. Moreover they love to work…

            Problem is tha Marx theory is based on another period, moreover a transient periond when the capital owners were entrepreuneur trying to squeeze all they could from their obedient workforce, not understanding yet that they could be ruined if their workforce get furious, or unmotivated, or poor…

            quickly the workforce asked for a share and for protection.

            today the capital owner are mostly retired people, insured people, people who save money for troubles,…

            of course there are rich people, but the capital owner are numerous, greedy, and not rich.

            self-entrepreneur may be the solution, and equity should replace securities, as Muhammad regulated in the muslim world.

          • Roger Bird

            And how is that going to work with food. Will 3D printers be making the food?

          • Rockyspoon

            Of course. You can select whatever brand of hamburger you want–a Big Mac, a Burger King, or whatever.

            It all depends on what ingredients you put in your 3-D printer and what design you select.

          • Barry

            “Relentless wars” is quite an exaggeration. Tally the score and you will find war has been an active agenda of Russia as well.

          • orsobubu

            obviously, russia too is imperialistic. also europe. china is heating the engines

          • orsobubu

            About stock shares to the people: if you studied Imperialism, by Lenin, you would learn – right from the capitalists voices – that, when the possibility to sell shares to the people was for the first time established – this was a terrific capitalistic advantage for the ruling class of that country (UK, but I’m not sure), because it gave the full control of the enterprises to fewer and fewer hands, because of the mechanics of subdivided property quotas. In crisis and failures times, then, it is way more simple to espoliate workers from their little deperciated shares.

          • Rockyspoon

            And how is that “exploitation” achieved, orso?

            By buying back their stock?

            By selling more worthless shares?

            What’s the benefit of seeing shares in a company become worthless?

            What buyer would want to buy such a company, and what would be gained even if he did?

          • orsobubu

            Money lost by owners of stock shares are a classic, in economic history. Simply that. I have not a good english.

        • glhf

          Impoverishment is lack of resources that a person needs for subsistence. Increased availability of energy decreases the inability to obtain resources. With the amount of energy available from fusion the nonavailability of resources approaches zero. Some percentage of the working class struggles for subsistence and are exploited, but if energy is so available to be near to free, a person is no longer motivated by subsistence and can pursue what ever motivations they choose and the ability for exploitation is lost.

          • orsobubu

            You forget that what is important, in capitalism, is the capital converted from extracted surplus value. Without wage work, no surplus value, no capital. End of the game. War.

          • Rockyspoon

            Not necessarily.

            Besides, in a socialistic/Marxist economy, capital is still needed (unless the population is happy without the necessities/luxuries of life): this time, Big Government becomes the owner, takes all the profit, and because of corruption, mismanagement, lack of expertise, and gross incompetence, wastes what little “surplus value” gained from the backs of the workers.

            The result? Your “End of the game. War.” But this time, it comes quicker because there’s so little “surplus value” from the socialistic/Marxist economy.

            The biggest strides in wealth and human development have come from the capitalist system, not from implementing the ideology of Engels, Marx, or Lenin.

            And deviation from capitalism is what causes the problems–to the degree that EML are embraced.

          • orsobubu

            You’re confusing state capitalism with communism. Soviet-like communism is a bourgeoise ideology, mcchartistic in USA, stalinist in russia. Communism never existed to date, it is a program for the future. Also Lenin NEVER said he made communism, only state capitalism. Stalin killed al the bolscheviks. Start studying Bordiga texts.

          • Roger Bird

            Communism failed in Russia for the same reason that it is failing in North Korea and everywhere else that it has been tried, for so many simple reasons. The most important is the concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat, the key word there is “dictatorship”, which should be a clue for anyone. But don’t forget the word “proletariat”. Workers are workers because they are too stupid or undynamic [lacking self-esteem, lazy, etc, etc] to work themselves up to higher levels. Then there is the whole fulcrum point of thinking that the structure of society will make the good or bad (or in between) of a person. According to Marxist philosophy, Stalin (and now the Kim family) should have magically become a good person. But he didn’t, because the ownership of the means of production does not automatically make people good. Communism will always fail because it does not and cannot get at the heart of a person. And since politics in general cannot get at the heart of a person, we need separation of powers, limited government, states rights, individual rights enshrined in a Constitution that all politicians swear to uphold, and other checks and balances to absolute power.

          • orsobubu

            I see you don’t know how capital is obtained. And still you talk about state capitalism.

          • Roger Bird

            orsobubu, I am really quite irritated at you for promoting an ideology that has been clearly and distinctly the cause of the deaths of 100s of millions of people, that has been an utter failure, that the world has passed up. The world has left behind Nazism and Communism. Both have equal an chance of ever coming back.

          • orsobubu

            you’re hiding again the fact that Russia, etc had state capitalism, not communism

        • Felix Fervens

          Every time I’ve attempted to point out that technology is most often a double-edged sword, with nefarious applications being one edge, my comments have been resigned to moderation purgatory. It is true.

          • Roger Bird

            I have said many times that LENR+ will have both good and bad ramifications for human happiness. Suffering that is the result of need will be greatly diminished. Suffering that is the result of runaway desires will increase, not the least of which will be an increase in kardashianitis, drug usage, boredom, etc. But there will be a greater opportunity for people to grow spiritually, since they won’t be as harassed by necessities.

          • Rockyspoon

            Can you give me an example of this “Suffering that is the result of runaway desires” so I can understand what you’re talking about, Roger?


          • Rockyspoon

            Then am I in a moderator’s pergatory, Felix?

            I wonder how I got there without being a moderator. Hmmmmm….

  • daniel maris

    Does anyone have a link to the full Finnish LENR patent application?

    • Jim
      • daniel maris

        Thanks! [If anyone else was confused by the that, you need to click on description and claims etc on the left]

        Well I can’t follow the science but it does seem remarkably detailed, as others have noted.

        Perhaps this will impress that guy from

    • Lajos Kelemen

      searchable text of the Finnish patent

      You can copy/paste text from that webpage.

    • Joe Shea

      Problem is, you don’t need any heat in Miami, except for hot water in the bathroom!

      • Roger Bird

        And bathrooms in factories generally don’t have showers and need very little hot water.

        • daniel maris

          Depends what the factory is doing…food processing needs plenty of hot water. So does paper making I believe.

          • Roger Bird

            But daniel, this is an e-cat factory.

          • Shane D.

            This is Rossis new partner according to him. Not a new customer as he once upon a time had us believe.

            As that is clearly the case, then why would a food processing company or the like jump into the energy business?

            I get the feeing that we aren’t getting the whole story. Not uncommon with Rossi as history has shown.

            Also, it has been two months now and we still haven’t seen the video of its operation as promised.

        • Andrew Macleod

          All plastic. Molding factorys use heat for melting the plastic.

      • Lukedc

        The factory isn’t in Florida.

  • Mark D

    Admin Frank, On May 16, 2011 you posted “Here are some key facts about Ampenergo , the private US company that has signed an agreement with Andrea Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation to commercialize his E-Cat technology, gathered from the recent NyTeknik interview with Craig Cassarino, Vice President of Ampenergo.” Has there been any follow up with them and the current state of their relationship with Mr. Rossi and his new U.S. partner. Their website is still up unchanged Keep up the great work.


  • Steve G

    The News is only getting better )

  • winebuff

    There are hundreds if not thousands of small and medium co’s that could be involved with rossi.
    Speculation is rampant and like finding a needle in a haystack the only way we will know is when a co.has
    A press release for confirmation

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I wonder if it’ll have an Amish made cabinet?

  • Kim

    Perhaps in the future this technology will
    be used to split the steam into hydrogen
    and oxygen using catalysts.

    Abundant Hydrogen to generate electricity.

    Higher the steam temperature the more
    easily it can be done.


  • catbauer24

    For those of you still thinking the US partner is Tesla, time to move on I think. It was just last summer, in the thick of things when Musk explicitly states about possibility of fusion… “and by fusion, I mean magnetic confinement fusion”. So, completely discounting Haglestein’s validation that was wrapping up at the time Elon endorsed ‘hot’ fusion (Hagelstein’s experiment started in January of that year). Let alone, disregarding all other claims / experiments at the same time. It seemed Musk was sincere about his statement, so I’ll say he’s pretty short-sighted on this front.

    I might mention… John Rohner had a ton of product lined up and ready to sell, with actual manufacturers!! So, Rossi’s talk of a ‘secret manufacturer’ is extremely tiring and trying. Another point that Mats Lewan even noted, the May 16th published study can not definitely conclude the input energy (I know, it hurts to side with the skeptics for a moment!) And, it took a 3rd revision for this to become clear, unfortunately… However I do hold hope, there is a hopeful bit of ‘indication’, as the testers are careful to state.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      The e-cat may end up being the BetaMax of LENR.

  • sophareth camsonne

    Coca Cola, tesla, Elon Musk, why not adding further SpaceX ?

    • sophareth camsonne

      SpaceX is for Elon Musk an immense Acknowledgment. It’s a first private company to replace NASA
      in ISS (International Space Station) services.

      • GreenWin

        NASA seems to be staying busy over at Glenn Research Center:

        “Tests conducted at NASA Glenn Research Center and elsewhere consistently show evidence of anomalous heat during gaseous loading and unloading of deuterium into and out of bulk palladium. At one time called “cold fusion,” now called “low-energy nuclear reactions” (LENR), such effects are now published in peer-reviewed journals and are gaining attention and mainstream respectability. The instrumentation expertise of NASA GRC was applied to improve the diagnostics for investigating the anomalous heat in LENR.”

        Maybe GRC should do a presentation at ICCF-18. It is THE science conference of popular attentions this year.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          GreenWin….Good find, thanks, I am sending to my skeptical scientific friends.

  • buffalo

    mm.this is a positive step indeed if we are to believe at face value in what rossi says.admin says he has sources indicating that factory activity is on the go so i might incline to be open minded here.

  • kwhilborn


    Is This Andrea Rossis partner?


    This says it was/is….

    The fresh agreement outlines commercial plans in North- and South America for the energy catalyzer – the device that seems to produce large amounts of energy via a hitherto unknown and not fully understood nuclear reaction.

    Under the agreement, a newly formed company, Ampenergo, will receive part of the royalties on all sales of licenses and products built on the energy catalyzer in the Americas.

    Links to U.S. authorities are evident.

    The founders of Ampenergo are Karl Norwood, Richard Noceti, Robert Gentile and Craig Cassarino.

    Two of them also founded the consulting firm LTI – Leonardo Technologies Inc. – which for 10 years has been working on contracts amounting to several millions of dollars for the U.S. Defense and Energy departments, and with a recent contract with DOE amounting to 95 million dollars.

    Robert Gentile was also Assistant Secretary of Energy for Fossil Energy at the Department of Energy during the early 1990’s.

    Three of the founders have known Andrea Rossi since 1996 and have been working with him previously. Rossi also co-founded LTI, but sold his stake in the late 1990’s.

    Formally, the agreement has been made between Ampenergo and Rossi’s American company, Leonardo Corporation (not to be confused with LTI).

    Craig Cassarino, vice president of Ampenergo, when did you sign the agreement?

    Cassarino: We signed it two months ago.

    Why did you form a new company?

    Cassarino: We formed Ampenergo, because Ampenergo and LTI involve different people and they are separate companies that do completely different things. LTI is an energy engineering and consulting firm, while Ampenergo will be focused on developing and commercializing the Energy Catalyzer.

    How much do you pay for the agreement?

    Cassarino: Unfortunately that’s confidential.

    Have you paid anything to Rossi yet?

    Cassarino: Yes we have.

    How much?

    Cassarino: Let’s put it like this, it was an important piece of the equation.


    If they are not his parter then why not? What happenned?

    This news is years old so why such mystery now unless this is flawed..

    I’m confused.. please explain.

    Is Ampenergo Andrea Rossis partner?

    NOTE: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!–.pdf

    This company is in OHIO, which does get cold, and also requires HEAT!

    Just saying…

    Correct me because i’m confused otherwise.

  • ewan

    An interesting discussion is worth comment. I think that you should write more on this topic, it might not be a taboo subject but generally people are not enough to speak on such topics. To the next. Cheers