Defkalion Demo During ICCF-18 Rumor

I thought people here might be interested in this post by Akira Shirakawa on the vortex-l list. He writes:

Akira Shirakawa Mon, 15 Jul 2013 07:16:12 -0700
This is unconfirmed news, but it seems there will be a Defkalion GT demo in Milan, Italy on July 22nd which will be live streamed on the internet and during ICCF18. Some skeptics, scientists and journalists from the international press have been invited to this demo. More details will be made available in due time.


I will try to find out more about this and update this thread if I can learn anything more.

  • Jackson

    So.. if you cant confirm it.. does that mean it doesnt exist 😛

    • Roger Bird

      Obviously not.

  • Kim

    A good public demonstration could go a long
    ways in raising the consciousnesses level
    of cold fusion concepts.

    There is always going to be people to pick
    the demonstration apart, but that is healthy
    and helps to raise the consciousness of the

    We need as many demonstrations as
    they can deliver


  • Italo R.

    Rossi has said many times that the Defkalion reactor is an empty box, to be filled with the secrets of e-cat in due time.
    But it seems that it isn’t so. It seems that they really have developed a running reactor.
    We will see in about one week, and it will be surely interesting under several ways…

    • kwhilborn

      Defkalion originally offered Rossi 15 million if he could run his reactor for 48 hours. The Rossi ecat was not stable back then with the best demo at 18 hours. Now Andrea Rossi ecat can run for months it seems.

      So we know Defkalion was keen on the idea and has had millions of dollars for R&D.

      I am not convinced though. Defkalion has openly lied to us telling us they were testing hundreds. They issued a blueprint of a device anybody could draw in 20 minutes, with no pictures of anything real.

      They have been smoke and mirrors, and I think they are behind, but wish to be involved in any patent lawsuits that arise from these early years.

    • Chuck

      Are you accusing Mr. Rossi of being a pathological skeptic?

      • Roger Bird

        I am accusing Rossi of being a businessman. Much better than a skeptopath since businessmen often deliver and skeptopaths never deliver.

  • Patronym

    “which will be live streamed on the internet and during ICCF18”
    excellent, very interessant.
    Soon i have confirmed information it works, i’ll do lot of noise on websites in my country.
    They will know it.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I just hope Defkalion does not screw up and feed the skeptics. We must remember every demonstration Rossi has done has been met with crazy skeptics, like “there is a wire coming out of the cement floor”, “the reactor is full of batteries”, “the ground wire is supplying electricity”. There is no reason to assume Defkalion’s demonstration will be any different.

    • Kim

      No it will not be any different.

      What we need is public demonstrations.

      We need to see this thing heating a
      400 gallon hot tub.

      Then we need to see multiple demonstrations there after…

      If this thing works show it to the public

      If you want to see the money flow

      Show it to the Public!

      Quit hiding behind excuses of Politics,
      money, fear, ect.. (Fetal Positions!)

      Lets get on with it!


      • Jim

        Concur that showing it to the public would cause the money to flow.

        The problem is that much less of it would flow to Leonardo et al.

        I don’t believe there are many people who are willing to mortgage their homes, jeopardize their retirement plans and sacrifice all their discretionary time for many years strictly for the good of humanity. I believe the subset of these who are talented, ambitious engineer/scientists are fewer. No doubt there are some, just not many.

        Plus, sometimes accumulating a little capital behind the endeavor optimizes the good for humanity. And sometimes they know that.

        • Chuck

          “The problem is that much less of it would flow to Leonardo et al.”

          Why would this necessarily be a bad thing? Heck, it might light a fire under the Leonardites.

          • Jim

            It’s not a matter of good or bad, it’s simply an analysis of the cause and effect dynamics that may determine what is likely to actually happen.

            If someone can convince Rossi and friends to make the sacrifice, that’s also part of the dynamics.

            However, that might be one of those things that is only impossible in the real world.

          • fortyniner

            Fear of being ‘pipped to the post’ could help release the current state of ‘technical constipation’ – but only if there are no complicating factors involving external parties.

          • GreenWin

            Or possibly a technical Nemma.

    • Allan Shura

      Reputedly they did not screw up recently with several small demos on their premises with authoritative testimonials by those who had seen

  • jfab

    Why would they live-stream a demo from Italy, while they’re based in Canada and the ICCF-18 is in the USA? Wouldn’t it be simpler to do the demo at ICCF-18 (Missouri)?

    • Jim

      The demo equipment may not be portable, and they may have some of their original research partners in Italy. And as admin said, this is unconfirmed…

      • Deleo77

        They need to get a third party to test it – a group of respected scientists would be nice. Take the Defkalion device to a third party location, and allow the third party to use their own electrical connections and measuring equipment. Defkalion has to get the device off-site and into the hands of a third party, or how would it satisfy a skeptic? If you are going to do a black box test, that is a minimum. Otherwise who knows what is in the walls feeding the power into the reactor (maybe a piece of cheese).

    • Boondogled

      I think I know what they mean. The Demo won’t physically be at ICCF-18, but a live video feed at a booth viewing the demo from Milan, at ICCF-18. Not quite as spectacular, but I can see the reasoning for it. Although, Skeptics will still hold on to reasonable deniability.

      It may only wet appetites, as it isn’t exactly Superman, unless he saves you from a burning building. Then pinches you for good measure to make sure your not dreaming. Skeptics can’t be reasoned with, no amount of proof will be sufficient. You have to turn the tide with the scientists on the fence. Or offer to actually provide the extra heat or electricity in an environment that contradicts what the Skeptic believes to be true.

      • Roger Bird

        This is a semantic check: I think that we have decided that all scientists are skeptics, but people who refuse to look at the evidence are skeptopaths.

        • georgehants

          Roger, scepticism and optimism are a balancing act, when one is much stronger than the other it shows a mind that is unbalanced.
          One cannot have one without the other or such things as the irrational stance of science on Cold Fusion and many other subjects is the result.
          That is why the only scientific way is to open-mindedly Research and find the Evidence.

          • artefact

            George? Welcome back!

          • georgehants

            artefact, thanks, I always look for your updates.

          • Roger Bird

            George, I am on eternal moderation. It is currently 9:40 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time. I think that I am on eternal moderation because Frank is jealous of how good looking I am. (:->)

            Anyway, I like what you said. Balance is the key to wisdom. But I would say that there has to be a balance between skepticism and credulity/trust. Credulity become optimism when whatever one is studying is a good thing. For example, “Harold, do you believe that the alien in the movie Alien is real and coming to Earth?” Answer #1: “Yes, I am optimistic about it.” Answer #2: “Yes, I believe it to be so.” Sometimes what we believe is not necessarily a good thing.

            But I applaud your grasping the important of balance. I also include trying to see both (or all) sides to a question, all viewpoints.

      • blaze

        It’s possible that they’re not allowed to demo at ICCF or NI-WEEK for fear of radiation.

      • fortyniner

        As well as the Canadian move, at the beginning of the year DGT teamed up with Mose Srl of Milan to form an R&D centre at 5 Via Bastia, Milano 20139.

        If the rumour is true, it seems probable that the demo will take place at this location.

        • artefact

          I’m still waiting for their website to go live

          • fortyniner

            My guess is that the website will be the origin of the live stream, assuming a demo takes place. It’s probably worth watching for any movement there immediately before ICCF-18.

        • jfab

          Thanks fortyniner.

          • fortyniner

            The address looks like an oldish industrial estate with some new build – mostly offices I would guess:


    • Michelangelo

      Beause in Italy nobody teasing people will ne arrested…usually. It is the “Paese dei Balocchi (from Pinocchio fairtale)”.
      (I am italian).

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Skeptics don’t matter any more. Just take a look down the road and you’ll see the approaching Cold Fusion Steamroller.

    • Pedro

      Yeh, I can see the steamroller. But it’s still far down the road and it approaches steady but relatively slowly. I guess there are some other LENR upstarts working hard to beat the steamroller to the main square. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the coming months other contenders get into the race and maybe even pop up in front of the steamroller. The Finish patent from last week being an example of contenders popping up from unexpected corners. There must be many more by now working on LENR, and not only hobyists and small upstarts, but also established companies that are in the business of energy and heating. If this is true, then the times are ripe for coming out of the closet. Maybe the 20-year ban-dam against CF is cracking as we are watching. Here’s hoping!

      • Bob

        Don’t look now but they seem to be tinkering with the motor of the steamroller.
        On July 8th report from AR, point 3;-
        “Technological development can require a long process, involving many changes as a technology moves forward. E-Cat is undergoing that process now. This process will continue as long as needed, until such time as the team believes the technology is able to fulfill its promise in commercial settings.”
        And he says the tinkering process will continue as long as is needed.
        That doesn’t sound all that confident coming from someone who was saying for two years that he had products ‘ready for market’.
        The fact that he says “This process will continue as long as needed, until such time as the team believes the technology is able to fulfill its promise in commercial settings.” can only be interpretted as meaning at this point, the device is not able to fulfill its promise.

        • Pedro

          I don’t think that the text has anything to do with the real progress, and certainly not that there’s something wrong with one of the steamrollers (Rossi is not the only one, remember).
          This reply from Rossi is soooo not-Rossi. I’m convinced this is a legal text that he is supposed to use whenever somebody asks about progress. You will see many similar responses from Rossi in the coming time. He has become a team player and can no longer tease us with forward looking responses. Corporate culture at his (publicly traded?) partner company probably doesn’t allow that kind of openess from the R&D floor to the general public. Which makes sense!
          However, I don’t think anything realy has changed… Rossi still is doing his magic but no longer can talk about it. Which probably is good, because no matter how much we liked it (we , the fans), it also gave a lot of ammunition to the sceptics.
          I’m still waiting for the “big news” that Rossi announced early June. Later he clarified that it was technical/scientific in nature, not commercial. He also replied to Frank that it would be within months.
          Be ready for the bang!

  • Lukedc

    I don’t know what all the excitement is about.
    I mentioned on here several times that they will be demoing for ICCF or NIWeek to coinside with their joint paper presentation.
    I just wasn’t sure if it was their R5 or R6 reactor that we will be seeing.
    If it’s the R5, then they will be exhibiting the control aspects of their LENR+ implementation. Don’t expect a high COP.
    If it’s their R6 reactor, then this reactor iteration has been designed for higher performance. The data should be more impressive than in the past.

    • artefact

      and thanks for it.

  • daniel maris

    If Defkalion want to repair the damage done to their reputation, their demonstrations must be really transparent. No sign of that so far.

    • Roger Bird

      I’d say that it is beyond transparent. It is positively invisible. I haven’t seen a thing yet. (:->)

  • hempenearth

    Sorry, off topic here but this statement by A.R.from an earlier thread worries me:
    “Our USA Partner and world Licensee for the manufacturing is the sole in charge to determine the sales of energy and/or plants.”

    So lets say I want to buy an industrial E-Cat for US$1.5 million. I’m based in Australia so I go to Roger Green’s E-Cat Australia. Then Roger Green goes to Rossi/Leonardo because that is who his agreement is with. The partner says no I can’t have one for whatever reason or yes I can have one but will have to go to the back of the queue and wait for 12 months say because of production difficulties. But neither I the customer or Roger Green the licensed distributor know who has made this decision.
    Obviously the same goes for all distributors. I wouldn’t want to buy something this big if I didn’t know who I was dealing with.
    Or does Hydrofusion know who the partner is? Have I missed something somewhere?

    • Kim

      No I believe you have not missed a thing.

      Its quite obvious that everyone in charge
      is in a cold fusion fetal position sucking there thumb
      in fear that they will reveal something.

      I’m growing weary of grown men acting
      like ningcum poops


      • Roger Bird

        Kim, nincompoop (singular) and nincompoops (plural) are real words, spelled as I have spelled them. (:->) It was news to me and my wife also. <> The definition does not seem to include the word “skeptopath” for some reason. {Perhaps because skeptopath has not yet been put in the dictionary.}

        • Blanco69

          Roger, maybe they’re Nicompaths. 🙂

  • artefact

    Some updates about a “cold fusion demo” on 22nd July:[email protected]/msg84376.html

    and the next post:

    Google-translated comment :

    Andrea writes:
    July 15th, 2013 at 2:33 pm
    In the demo of 22 there will be a representative of CICAP, a physicist from
    what I understand, journalists from the BBC and will be streaming at the same
    time to another streaming dall’ICCF18, there will be enough room for other
    people, technicians, curious, etc. .
    >From about 20 days are repeated trials and demonstrations in Milan only for
    >customers and for about a couple of months in Canada forever just to customers.”

    • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

      Andrea Rossi is competing! The emerging market is forcing competition.

      • I doubt this “Andrea” is not Rossi

        • Sorry, the “not” is too much 😉

          Should be:
          I doubt this “Andrea” is Rossi

  • Julian Becker

    I think a public demonstration of Defkalion would put Rossi under pressure to do exactly the same to stay in the race, because media attention would switch to them and away from the Ecat….

    • Pedro

      What media attention would switch? Rossi’s demo’s and independent tests did not generate any real media attention from the mainstream media. Why would a demo by Defkalion do better in that respect? Especially not if it is just a live video stream from Italy to a “fringe” symposium at a university.

      • Paolo

        Because Defkalion is not a one-man-show, it is a company, so the media cannot ignore the topic if there are two realities linked in the past and now both emerging on the market, it is obvious…

        • GreenWin


          general consensus is Defkalion, former partner to Rossi, has stolen Rossi’s IP. Defkalion’s CEO admitted as much to reporter Mats Lewan in Ny Teknik.

          And you cannot imagine the depths of mainstream media’s ignorance – it rivals the Mariana Trench.

          • Fisher

            Any attention lenr can get is good attention. If Defk comes forward with a good, quality demo then I think some hungry news agency may pick it up and run with it. If they allow some level of testing then all the better. It will be yet another person/company/school saying we have a lenr product.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Not a chance, the demo will be a bust.

          • fortyniner

            Why do you say that, Bernie? If you have new evidence to support this assertion, perhaps you could share it. Otherwise it is simply baseless opinion.

          • Allan Shura

            It has to be the substantially the same process or product for patent protection. I think IP
            is a misnomer in this context.

            Rossi got his ideas from Focardi and Focardi
            got his ideas from Fleischmann Pons.

            An example would be a fake Rolex or Apple.

          • Roger Bird

            Allen, congratulates, you found another way to put down a sweet, hardworking, and decent human being who is trying to save the human race.

  • artefact
  • georgehants

    Future Fuel

    • pg

      long time no see

      • georgehants


    • GreenWin

      Thank you George. The story on Germany’s cutting old growth forest to put in wind turbines is… Grimm.

      • georgehants

        GreenWin, it is Wonderful how our tax funded broadcaster manages to just blindly follow the establishment and miss such insignificant things as a complete new science of Cold Fusion.
        To busy picking up millions of pounds from their dismissal bonuses, I think.

        • fortyniner

          Hi George.

          Most of them are arts and politics educated and can’t understand complicated technical things like a hammer or wheels. Instead, Roger Harrabin tells them what to think.

  • PawelS

    New Thermocell Could Harvest ‘Waste Heat’ from Power Stations and Even Vehicle Exhaust Pipes

    • Roger Bird

      Because they did not mention the efficiency, I looked for another article using their names. Both articles were very new on the wire and neither said anything about the efficiency. But the fact that there is an article and the fact that the researchers Professor Doug MacFarlane and PhD student Theodore Abraham are excited about it means that it could very well have a significant improvement in efficiency. We will see how this unfolds.

  • buffalo

    no no.a public defkalio demo would tilt the table weight into mainstream attention why? Because a name other than rossi will be in the game official,it,l prick antennas up

    • Barry


  • Gerrit

    A semi-live demonstration of a working device does lie in the line of expectation from a meta point of view. First a 3rd party validation of one device, now a demonstration of another device.

    So I hear the BBC might participate, we’ll see if that brings us some news coverage. Remember when that associated press guy Peter Svensson was present at the Rossi demonstration in October 2011, nothing was ever published by him.

    I just hope the demonstration will actually happen.

    • GreenWin

      Gerrit, the AP provides proof of its journalistic ignorance by obeying orders to quash the 2011 E-Cat story. AP flew tech reporter Peter Svensson and a photographer to Bologna to observe the demonstration.

      When all went well and the demo proved successful to dozens of international observers, AP-crack journalists they are, buried the entire event. Historical accounts of the rebirth of Cold Fusion will not be kind to the AP, and will mark this behavior as the beginning of AP’s spiral into bankruptcy – if not financial, certainly spiritual. 🙂

      It is doubtful AP will reprint the Columbia Trib copyrighted story.

  • Gerrit

    Columbia Tribune article about iccf-18

    Associated press also carries the story, so we can expect other news sources to bring the story too.

    • Barry

      Great article, thanks Gerrit.

      • Roger Bird

        I second that.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I predict Defkalion’s demonstration will be a bonanza for LENR skeptics.

    • Dr Bob

      Bernie, you are most probably right.

      The good news is that there is very few of them.

      I searched google for “cold fusion lenr” and “andrea rossi e-cat” and out of 100 webpages that had written a blog / article about lenr the last 3 month only 4 webpages where negative / critical against lenr.

      (and you can probably guess wich at least 3 of these 4 pages was)

      A certain Software consultant was behind 2 of these webpages and quoted on the 2 other
      My conclusions is that people WRITING about this is very positive.
      *** What the comments say and the forums say I never looked into.

  • GreenWin

    LENR conferences and excitement continues to overshadow old school physics. Here is Daniel Passerini & Vincent Valenzi’s overview of the July 15th LENR conference at Sapienza University of Rome:

    More confirmations of Celani, Alan Widom, discussion by Srivistava, and a Focardi tribute by old friend Christos Stremmenos.

    If anyone can get the slides to download and translate – please post!

  • RenzoB

    The CEO of Defkalion Europe Franco Cappiello wrote to us: “There will be an official announcement of this technology during ICCF 18 (International Conference Cold Fusion 18) at the University of Missouri (USA). For those interested you can see this webcast of all phases of the experiment, ignition, performance and switching off. Two independent scientists and two skeptical science journalists of international level will participate in this broadcast, as well as a member of the Cicap.”

    • Sanjeev

      Great !
      Hopefully this will be another milestone after the 3rd party Ecat report. Solid things are happening these days.

    • khawk

      Why is this happening thru a group that investigates the paranormal? This seems so strange – was a direct demo @ ICCF-18 not possible? From the start, this does not feel like a good setup for what should be a great week for LENR and is quite possibly a very poor management decision by Defkalion.

      Going to be interesting nonetheless.

      • RenzoB

        the Cicap is the italian (pseudo)skeptical society, just like the Randi foundation and similar. They try to debunk also all types of conspiracies and pseudo-scientific claims.

        • jfab

          How are they pseudo-skeps, and not real skeptics?

          • RenzoB

            Googlesearch Marcello Truzzi and pseudo-skepticism, these organizations are all the same.

          • Mannstein

            They’re crypto skeptics in case you didn’t know.

          • Roger Bird

            Real skeptics are here. GreenWin is a real skeptic. Georgehants is a real skeptic. Most disbelievers are skeptics. A skeptopath is like a hoarder or an anorexic. No matter how many times you direct them to the evidence, they won’t look at it and will invent reasons why what you say or what you directed them to is not true. They will get abusive. They will invent ANY absurd reason why the status quo must be true and anything outside of the box must be false, no matter how compelling the evidence.

  • Preston

    Allan Sterling broke this news back in April during an exclusive interview with the Defkalion CEO.

    Lots of info in this interview. The reactor needs to be pre-heated, but after that only requires a tiny amount of power for a spark that is fired once per second or so. The effective COP depends on how long you let it run, but it is over 5 after 24 hours. The reactor produces 4.5KW of thermal energy continuously for 6 months. They are working with a large number of companies for different applications, they expect the first, easiest ones, to start hitting the market in about 1 year.

  • Stephen

    Does anybody know why are they doing the test in Milan? And where in Milan? S