Examining the Possible Rossi-Industrial Heat-Cherokee Connection

Since coming across the information that seemed to connect Andrea Rossi with Cherokee Investment Partners, I have been doing quite a bit of research about them, and trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

Fulvio Fabiani

Just to recap: The possible connection between Rossi and Cherokee rests on the LinkedIn profile of Leonardo Corporation engineer Fulvio Fabiani, who listed as one of his current projects (now deleted) working at Industrial Heat LLC. His job title was listed as ‘Freelance Tech Consultant R.D. department manager’, and his assignments there were listed as ‘Project Designer; head of the project of “Power” system; Team leader of HW & SW development of new designs & projects”. The Swedish blog Sifferkoll has preserved a screenshot of the page here.

Industrial Heat LLC

Who, or what is Industrial Heat LLC? There’s not a whole lot of information out there about them. Fulvio Fabiani’s LinkedIn page gave a location of ‘Raleigh-Durham, Triangle Research, North Carolina’. An SEC filing submitted by the company states it was founded in 2012 an gives the address as 111 East Hargett Street, Suite 300, Raleigh, North Carolina, 27601 — the same address as the headquarters of Cherokee. The SEC filing is a registration to sell $20 million worth of shares, and as of August 23rd, 2013 almost $12 million have been sold. 14 investors provided the funds in the form of equity, debt and options. An article published in the Research Triangle Journal in August of this year commented on the success of this fundraiser, and the author noted that neither Thomas Darden or JT Vaughn, who signed the document were available to comment at the time.

A report on the Chinese website bjxinghuyuan.com, on September 23, 2013, Thomas Darden, Chairman of Industrial Heat LLC, and an investor named Daniel Pike, went to Beijing and held a meeting with a Chinese co-founder of Industrial Heat and various businessmen (possibly potential investors) at Star Lake Park Spa Hotel to discuss “the development of clean energy projects with the United States”. (Pictures at link)

Thomas Darden

Who is Thomas Darden — chairman of Industrial Heat LLC? Mr. Darden is also the CEO of Cherokee Investment Partners, a private equity company that primarily has dealt with cleaning up brownfield sites in many parts of the world. Cherokee is also involved in funding solar projects around the world — focusing on putting solar installations on brownfield sites. One article I read today said that Mr. Darden “has the reputation of being the ‘green conscience’ of private equity investing in the South, if not the nation” (Incidentally that article reports on him entering into a partnership with Donald Trump who helped him to save a troubled project). Cherokee partners with American Designer William McDonough to sponsor the annual Cherokee-McDonough Challenge which provides seed funding to promising environmental business ventures. An interesting video of Darden and McDonough discussing their environmental and business philosophies can beseen here. As a side note, Mr. McDonough is well connected in the business world, having worked with many major businesses and governments — check out his dining companions here.

Thomas Darden is 57 years old, and has a wide range of experience in a variety of business and administrative arenas — many with an environmental focus. Among other things he has served on the boards of Shaw University, the Institute for The Environment at the University of North Carolina, Board of Governors of the Research Triangle Institute, and the Environmental Defense Fund (see full profile here at Forbes.com)

Is This The Partner?

That is obviously a question that people following the E-Cat story are asking. So far, I have not received any response to an inquiry I sent to Cherokee, and Andrea Rossi will not discuss the identity of the partner. So we shall have to wait and see for certain confirmation. A couple of clues dropped by Andrea Rossi in the past seem to fit with a Cherokee partnership. He has mentioned in the past that his partner has a presence in China — and this is true for Cherokee (see here for an article). Rossi also mentioned earlier this year that his idea for the ‘cat and mouse’ E-Cat configuration came to him when he was in North Carolina — where Cherokee is headquartered.

But we don’t have certain confirmation here, and won’t until there is a public announcement. Let’s hope it won’t be too long until all is officially revealed.

  • Andre Blum

    Happy New Year Frank and fellow ECW readers!

  • Andre Blum

    Happy New Year Frank and fellow ECW readers!

    • Veblin

      I would be Happy this new year if all my posts didn’t go to moderation and most would get out of moderation.

  • Bob

    At last.
    After all the talk of huge public companies, corporations and government instrumentalities, we have a proposition that finally makes sense on who the ‘secret partner’ might be.
    CNB (LLC) certainly fits all the criteria in regards to the lack of public reporting which made all the previous suggestions of publicly listed companies nigh on impossible.
    I think we finally have a winner.
    Good work Frank. You win the prize. 🙂
    I think if you keep a close eye on this, everything will be consistent with your choice.
    Oh,.. and a happy new year to all.

    • Buck

      CNB (LLC)? Cherokee National Bank?

      Where did this reference come from?

      A little excitement is leading to a bit of confusing conversation.

      • Bob

        No. Not Cherokee National Bank. 🙂
        I don’t think a bank would be allowed to operate as a Limited Liability Company. Good lurk if you could get away with it though.
        CNB, Cherokee Nation Businesses (Limited Liability Company)
        It’s an ‘umbrella company’ covering all sorts of investments on behalf of the Cherokee nations, including in clean tech industries.

  • Veblin

    October 24, 2012
    Rossi: ‘Leonardo Corp Will Not be the Same’
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/10/rossi-leonardo-corp-will-not-be-the-same/

    October 24, 2012
    Industrial Heat LLC is Incorporated in Delaware. North Carolina company with Cherokee officers and address.
    http://www.bizapedia.com/de/INDUSTRIAL-HEAT-LLC.html

    April 24, 2013
    Date of First Sale: The date where the first investor has signed an irrevocable contract to invest.
    http://form-d.findthecompany.com/l/132750/Industrial-Heat-LLC

    August 23, 2013
    SEC Form D filed. Sold $11,555,050 Offered $20,000,000
    http://www.formds.com/issuers/industrial-heat-llc

    September 23, 2013
    Cherokee and Industrial Heat LLC meeting in China.
    Did they get to $20,000,000 or more?
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:81yQOEFA6K0J:www.bjxinghuyuan.com/news/html/%3F429.html+http://www.bjxinghuyuan.com/news/html/%3F429.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

  • glenc

    Hi,
    I think you have found the financers not the partner per se. The partner seems likley to be in industrial heat as a joint venture. They would be one of the shareholders perhaps as an option ie not much cash up front but a lot of manufacturing capacity. Is there a way to see who owns shares in industrial heat? My guess is that trail leads back to the ‘mid size company’ we have been speculating about.

    Thanks to everyone who contributes it’s a pleasure to watch this unfold.

    Glen

    • Agreed, unless ‘Industrial Heat’ was set up specifically as R&D support for Rossi by the investment group. If so, then that kind of initiative is almost invariably driven by one person with the conviction, authority and resources to carry it through (Darden?). Whoever it might be, the probability remains that ‘the partner’ is an individual or a small group, not a larger company or corporation, although bigger fish will obviously need to be involved at some point (if they are not already).

      • Brokeeper

        I agree to both. Just an added note, the statement “Rossi also mentioned earlier this year that his idea for the ‘cat and mouse’ E-Cat configuration came to him when he was in North Carolina — where Cherokee is headquartered” may indicate Rossi was visiting his financer (maybe on his way to Miami Fl.) when he gave the salutation: “Please say hello to my beloved New Hampshire,….”

  • Paul Smith

    Have you seen this?

    http://www.cobraf.com/showimage.php?image=/forum/immagini/R_123543998_1.png

    it comes for the user LEN-4Eye in the forum cobraf.com and derives from hypothesis and guessing linking together all the known news.

    • Seems massively complex when all that is actually needed is an R&D partner with decent resources, and some additional funding if the R&D partner is unable to stretch to building a pilot generating plant (a crucial step). Quite a bit of the process map is probably now historical.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Interesting, thanks. I wonder if E.ON SE – a big German energy provider – could be one of the partners, instead of EON s.r.l., which seems to be an Italian company that produces table grapes, apricots and cherries: http://www.eonsrl.it

      Some stuff for further speculations:

      E.ON SE has been collaborating with Siemens in the past. Siemens gave up their solar energy branch in 2013, after they had announced respective plans in 2012. Recently, E.ON SE has reported they would withdraw completely from southern Europe. When I think about southern Europe, Ansaldo Energia comes into my mind. As is known, they hold a patent related to LENR. Siemens (and later Doosan Heavy) have been interested in buying Ansaldo from Finmeccanica, but the Italian authorities successfully prevented a takeover.

  • Buck

    CNB (LLC)?

    Where did this reference come from?

    • Bob

      No. Not Cherokee National Bank. 🙂
      I don’t think a bank would be allowed to operate as a Limited Liability Company. Good lurk if you could get away with it though.
      CNB, Cherokee Nation Businesses (Limited Liability Company)
      It’s an ‘umbrella company’ covering all sorts of investments on behalf of the Cherokee nations, including in clean tech industries.

  • Fortyniner

    Agreed, unless ‘Industrial Heat’ was set up specifically as R&D support for Rossi by the investment group. That kind of initiative is almost invariably driven by one person with the authority and resources to carry it through (Darden?). Whoever it might be, the probability remains that ‘the partner’ is an individual, not a company or corporation, although bigger fish will obviously need to be involved at some point (if they are not already).

    • BroKeeper

      I agree to both. Just an added note, the statement “Rossi also mentioned earlier this year that his idea for the ‘cat and mouse’ E-Cat configuration came to him when he was in North Carolina — where Cherokee is headquartered” may indicate Rossi was visiting his financer (maybe on his way to Miami Fl.) when he gave the salutation: “Please say hello to my beloved New Hampshire,….”

      • Christina

        Happy “Rossi Effect” 2014!

  • Pedro

    So, all we know is that Fabiani was doing a project at a company called Industrial Heat… Why must that have to do with the partner? There is a huge mismatch between Ind. Heat and the partner as described by Rossi. I prefer to belief Rossi and wait for the large corporation to be revealed.
    Ind. Heat is likely nothing more than a customer that specialises in a certain area and got early access to the technology, just like DGT does with its 20 industrial partners. Cherokee is financing this particular technology development ( retrofitting?) but likely not the development of the core e-cat techology… Thats done by the real partner.
    Wait for the real partner to be revealed… Its going to be a big one like B&W, Carrier or Siemens. ( I hope)

    • Daniel Maris

      Industrial Heat has popped up out of nowhere. That is suspicious. No announcement has been made about what Industrial Heat is up to. That is suspicious. It’s got a shed load of money for purposes undefined. That’s suspicious. There is a personnel connection with Rossi. Suspicious again.

      And there’s a clue in the name – Industrial Heat….which fits in perfectly with what Rossi has been telling us about the development work.

      And there is the China connection – which again makes perfect sense. If Cherokee can get the Chinese to adopt this technology, then carbon emissions from China will go into free fall. Whether the Chinese dictatorship will want that remains to be seen (there may be all sorts of disruptive economic and social effects).

    • artefact

      Yes. Fabiani could have been hired by Industrial Heat (customer) to help them as a technical advisor with their first e-cat installations.

      • Daniel Maris

        But Industrial Heat are a new company who have just been given $12 million funding but aren’t yet producing anything. What are they going to produce? Why this investment – which, because of the personnel connection, would appear to come from Cherokee, not noted for their expertise in this field. I think it is wrong to look at Industrial Heat as somehow an independent company. It seems more like what we might call in the UK a special purpose vehicle company, specifically design to retrofit E Cat industrial heaters in industrial boilers.

        • artefact

          Good. Or they are to handle the warm e-cat of which Rossi said he has not sold the IP to the partner as far as I remember. Heat fits good to the warm e-cat.

          • ecatworld

            I’m not sure about that. Rossi said a few days ago they were doing R&D on the low and high temp e-cats.

          • Fortyniner

            The current 2-stage device appears to be a hybrid, making use of both types, so the deal was probably for the whole package. There is almost certainly a lot of overlap anyway, which would potentially cause trouble if the technology was artificially divided.

  • Pedro

    So, all we know is that Fabiani was doing a project at a company called Industrial Heat… Why must that have to do with the partner? There is a huge mismatch between Ind. Heat and the partner as described by Rossi. I prefer to belief Rossi and wait for the large corporation to be revealed.
    Ind. Heat is likely nothing more than a customer that specialises in a certain area and got early access to the technology, just like DGT does with its 20 industrial partners. Cherokee is financing this particular technology development ( retrofitting?) but likely not the development of the core e-cat techology… Thats done by the real partner.
    Wait for the real partner to be revealed… Its going to be a big one like B&W, Carrier or Siemens. ( I hope)

    • artefact

      Yes. Fabiani could have been hired by Industrial Heat (customer) to help them as a technical advisor with their first e-cat installations.

  • Stranno

    “Let’s hope it won’t be too long until all is officially revealed”. Why is this so important to know? I understand your curiosity, but it is not in the interest of the research. right? Why not let them quietly do their job in peace?

    • nightcreature3

      Because all the hurdles to be overcome, in bringing this technology to market, will be dealt with quicker and better, the more human minds we have, thinking about it.

      In keeping this technology secret, they are only doing a disservice to humanity, purely out of an obsessive drive to maximize profit. They really have no need to be so guarded. Their future wealth is already guaranteed, and besides, they will all eventually be living in a better world. And if the technology is not yet perfect, it will keep on evolving while it’s being used, the same as what happens with all the other stuff we use.

      People need this technology now. If it is delayed, there will be many, for whom it would be too late.

      • bachcole

        I couldn’t agree less. Well, I guess I could agree about wanting a better world and such. But I believe that kum ba ya doesn’t get anything done. Everyone, even revolutionaries like Danial Ortega, eventually get down to personal advantage and interest.

    • bachcole

      Good question. Confirmation means that we are more certain about the reality of the E-Cat and have a better grasp of where it is going and how far it has come. But I understand how you feel. There is a part of me that wants to leave them alone and let them quietly undermine the established intellectual and financial world. (:->)

  • georgehants

    Just a little New Year reminder of what Cold Fusion may eventually help to eradicate.
    Best New Year to Mr. Rossi et al and all those working for a better World and of course to everybody everywhere.
    ——
    NEW YORK, New York, March 22, 2010 (ENS) – Unsafe water kills
    more people than war plus all other forms of violence combined, said
    United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in a message to the world
    today, designated as World Water Day.
    The 2010 World Water Day theme is Clean Water for a Healthy World, but
    every day two million tons of sewage, industrial and agricultural wastes
    enter the Earth’s waters, while every 20 seconds a child under the age
    of five dies from water-related diseases.
    The World Health Organization reports that unsafe water, sanitation and
    hygiene claim the lives of an estimated 1.5 million children under the
    age of five each year.
    http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/mar2010/2010-03-22-02.html

    • Daniel Maris

      I think if cold fusion can be developed it could lead to extraction of water from the atmosphere (which can be done quite easily now – it’s just rather expensive).

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Agreed. Whereas desalination enables life on dry ocean shores, extraction of atmospheric moisture enables it also in places which are far away from oceans, lakes and rivers, and such areas are much larger. Also the net effect on climate moisture of such activity is small because after use in irrigation, swimming pool or whatever, most of the water evaporates back into the local atmosphere where it came from.

        • Fortyniner

          Among many others, the DARPA-funded company, Aqua Sciences (recyclable hygroscopic salts) and DEKA’s ‘Slingshot’ refrigeration-cycle device, both of which could make use of a cheap power supply (or direct heat without conversion in the case of Aqua Sciences):

          http://www.aquasciences.com/

          http://bluefaucet.com/segway-inventors-innovative-cow-dung-powered-water-purifier/

          • malkom700

            Certainly the most urgent issue is to solve the health status of poor countries, but equally important is the issue of environmental pollution. This problem affects everyone, even the rich nations. Do not forget the economic crisis. LENR biggest advantage is its impact on all aspects of life on the planet. Even UN should take care of any problems as well.

        • No doubt all that will be possible, but I think thet simply being able to pump water from pits, or to recycle/clean water will do most of the needed job.

          from Tuareg I know that desert is full of water for the humans (provided you know the place), which need only to be pumped, kept clean.
          it is more problematic when you have hundreds of animals to feed, or fields to irrigate.
          but sure most place can benefit from pumping , sanitization of wasted water, and maybe of smart irrigation, resiustant crops, intelligent farming.

      • US_Citizen71

        You just need an absorption chiller, a few fans and a source of UV C for sterilization.

  • georgehants

    Just a little New Year reminder of what Cold Fusion may eventually help to eradicate.
    Best New Year to Mr. Rossi et al and all those working for a better World and of course to everybody everywhere.
    ——
    NEW YORK, New York, March 22, 2010 (ENS) – Unsafe water kills
    more people than war plus all other forms of violence combined, said
    United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in a message to the world
    today, designated as World Water Day.
    The 2010 World Water Day theme is Clean Water for a Healthy World, but
    every day two million tons of sewage, industrial and agricultural wastes
    enter the Earth’s waters, while every 20 seconds a child under the age
    of five dies from water-related diseases.
    The World Health Organization reports that unsafe water, sanitation and
    hygiene claim the lives of an estimated 1.5 million children under the
    age of five each year.
    http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/mar2010/2010-03-22-02.html

  • Daniel Maris

    Yes, it makes it clear that Fabiani’s main role is at Leonardo but he is working with Industrial Heat. Could it be any clearer? I doubt it. We have been allowed – by accident or design – to peek through the curtains.

    • Fortyniner

      I think you are probably right. I would guess probably ‘accident’ judging by the quick deletion and the lack of any obvious benefit to Rossi’s associates from the release of such information – but who knows.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        At midnight, I became eCATatonic.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    At midnight, I became eCATatonic.

  • BroKeeper

    The more information we receive about partners and financiers it resembles more like a macro view of an organizational tree chart. Each branch providing perpetual energy/purpose to the whole.

    It appears to be coalescing for the industrial surge to come. Once the partner or integrated partners are confirmed we will see a much clearer picture of their master plan.

    To me it is most encouraging to see these members with similar humanitarian ideologies that confirms Andrea Rossi’s altruistic intensions to seek out these class of partners.

    Happy New Year! to you Andrea Rossi and to all these hopeful followers and especially to Frank, an outstanding analytical journalist – Thanks!

    • Daniel Maris

      Yes, I think there is a nice blend of environmentalism and cold commercial capability.

  • Brokeeper

    The more information we receive about partners and financiers it resembles more like a macro view of an organizational tree chart. Each branch providing perpetual energy/purpose to the whole.

    It appears to be coalescing for the industrial surge to come. Once the partner or integrated partners are confirmed we will see a much clearer picture of their master plan.

    To me it is most encouraging to see these members with similar humanitarian ideologies that confirms Andrea Rossi’s altruistic intensions to seek out these class of partners.

    Happy New Year! to you Andrea Rossi and to all these hopeful followers and especially to Frank, an outstanding analytical journalist – Thanks!

  • Fortyniner

    Oh no – we’ve all been wasting our time. The answer was hot fusion all along and it’s really, nearly here, honest!

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/01/lawrenceville-plasma-physics-latest.html

    http://fire.pppl.gov/FPA13_Lerner_plasma_focus.pdf

    • artefact

      Then I can stop watching “Heavy Watergate – The War on Cold Fusion”. That saved me some time.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgV7fNO-2k

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Nevertheless the Lawrenceville guys write relatively nicely about cold fusion (lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com, Fusion power/Fusion FAQ). Or at least ridicule is absent, or at least I didn’t notice it…

    • bachcole

      I am so excited that I almost peed in my pants.

      Although hot-fusion per se on paper is clean, you know, H + H = He or whatever it is, what they don’t tell you is that the containment walls will be glowing in the freaking dark. I guess that they were going to wait for the physics retard environmentalists to tell society this.

    • Omega Z

      Peter
      They state
      Vs best today of 6 cents/KwH
      My bill- .045900/KwH or just a tad over 4-1/2 cents/KwH.
      Of course there are other fees & taxes that add an additional 5-1/4 cents for a total of about 10 cents/KwH.

    • Omega Z

      I find it strange that these “always 20 years” in the future energies & tech improvments are suddenly finding there way.

      • Fortyniner

        But it must be for real, surely. They’ve even got pictures of a wind chime and some junk in a storeroom to prove it.

  • Oh no – we’ve all been wasting our time. The answer was hot fusion all along and it’s really, nearly here this time – honest!

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/01/lawrenceville-plasma-physics-latest.html

    http://fire.pppl.gov/FPA13_Lerner_plasma_focus.pdf

    • artefact

      Then I can stop watching “Heavy Watergate – The War on Cold Fusion”. That saved me some time.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgV7fNO-2k

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Nevertheless the Lawrenceville guys write relatively nicely about cold fusion (lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com, Fusion power/Fusion FAQ). Or at least ridicule is absent, or at least I didn’t notice it…

    • bachcole

      I am so excited that I almost peed in my pants.

      Although hot-fusion per se on paper is clean, you know, H + H = He or whatever it is, what they don’t tell you is that the containment walls will be glowing in the freaking dark. I guess that they were going to wait for the physics retard environmentalists to tell society this.

    • Omega Z

      Peter
      They state
      Vs best today of 6 cents/KwH
      My bill- .045900/KwH or just a tad over 4-1/2 cents/KwH.
      Of course there are other fees & taxes that add an additional 5-1/4 cents for a total of about 10 cents/KwH.

    • Omega Z

      I find it strange that these “always 20 years” in the future energies & tech improvments are suddenly finding there way.

      • But it must be for real, surely. They’ve even got pictures of a copper wind chime and some junk in a storeroom to prove it.

  • Christina

    Happy “Rossi Effect” 2014!

  • bitplayer

    Petroldragon = convert waste to oil
    Cherokee = cleanup of brownfield sites

    hmm…

    • Daniel Maris

      Cherokee has a $2billion investment fund. No need for the hmmms I think.

      • US_Citizen71

        But they only have 12 million invested in Industrial Heat. Tiny drop in the bucket. My bet is still on them being just a licensee/customer that is rehabbing a coal plant/brownfield.

        • Daniel Maris

          Why the interest in China then?

          I think the $12million is research money in effect. More will follow as the project proceeds.

          • US_Citizen71

            China has been building coal plants like crazy, refurbishing their coal plants to run on LENR could be considered a industry unto itself.

          • Daniel Maris

            Yes. I presume the idea would be to start retrofitting LENR at the older plants as they are about to be decommissioned. A lot of those plants must date back to the 70s and 80s now.

          • US_Citizen71

            Yes, rebuild the least efficient ones first and build the new ones that they still need and have in their 5 year plan with LENR from the get go. The chinese understand efficiency and change over very well. They are the world leaders in the use of LEDs for lighting and electricity for transportation.

          • winebuff

            Why on earth would AR go there they will r everse engineer that tech in a blink of an eye and will be competing against his own tek and losing

      • Omega Z

        Daniel
        They have $2 billion in investments combined within the group.
        Not the same as $2 billion for investing.
        New Investments require obtaining additional VC funds.

        • Buck

          Oz, your raise an important distinction.

          However, even as you describe it, it says that the Cherokee management team have been able to successfully bring together projects and investors repeatedly. This can only occur if they have a level of respect within the investor community.

          I believe it is fair and reasonable to conclude that with a successful development and reasonable public testing of an industrial Hot-Cat, Cherokee will successfully go back to the investor well.

        • Daniel Maris

          I was drawing the contrast with Petroldragon which was never a solid business.

    • Doktor Bob

      A bit Of Topic and maybe you have already addressed this but it seems U.S Navy have shut down one of their LENR research programs. Shortly after it seems they awarded Bechtel Corp (San Francisco based) 7 billion dollars to design “nuclear propulsion systems for submarines and surface ships”.

      Bechtel is aware of Cold Fusion which is a Nuclear Reaction
      Is this the equivalent to the 19 NASA Engineers working with Boeing on a LENR powered 747 maybe?

      Just thought I would throw it out there

      • Daniel Maris

        As I recall it was a few young scientists producing fizzing microwatts in a jar at the US Navy establishment. I don’t think they would have bene scaling up to nuclear propulsion systems off the back of that. I got the impression it was just there was a core of scientists who considered cold fusion genuine and – as at NASA – they got sat on by a very heavy posterior. I hope I’m wrong – I would be very happy to be wrong.

        • the “establishment” of the deified team of Manhattan Project physicists is what denounce Beadette book “Excess Heat”…

          for example they forgot what was experiments that were hard to reproduce… they forgot what was to live in private sector, with short term contract like chemist, because they have tenure and government funded labs with decades funding.

        • winebuff

          Look, we know these things are decided by generals who would like to set themselves up for life after the millitary and lets face it bechtel os a nice nest to land in.

      • US_Citizen71

        It is just a contract extension. They do design work but also training and certification of NAVY personnel to operate current designs. http://www.bechtel.com/2013-11-15.html

  • wallypalo

    Gee I hope this information is incorrect. I would hate to think that Cold Fusion power is now in the hands of a crony capitalist and an enviro-nazi.

  • wallypalo

    Gee I hope this information is incorrect. I would hate to think that Cold Fusion power is now in the hands of a crony capitalist and an enviro-nazi.

  • A bit Of Topic and maybe you have already addressed this but it seems U.S Navy have shut down one of their LENR research programs. Shortly after it seems they awarded Bechtel Corp (San Francisco based) 7 billion dollars to design “nuclear propulsion systems for submarines and surface ships”.

    Bechtel is aware of Cold Fusion which is a Nuclear Reaction
    Is this the equivalent to the 19 NASA Engineers working with Boeing on a LENR powered 747 maybe?

    Just thought I would throw it out there

  • bachcole

    I don’t know what I am talking about, so I will say so rather than leave here an obvious indication that I don’t know what I am talking about. I can’t seem to delete, only edit. (:->)

    • Daniel Maris

      Good New Year celebration was it? 🙂

      • bachcole

        I started to say that Cherokee didn’t have enough money, but realized I had not read carefully enough and wanted to delete the entire comment but couldn’t. (:->)

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Happy New Year bachcole, are you smoking or eating a weed that became legal in our State?

  • bachcole

    I don’t know what I am talking about, so I will say so rather than leave here an obvious indication that I don’t know what I am talking about. I can’t seem to delete, only edit. (:->)

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Happy New Year bachcole, are you smoking or eating a weed that became legal in our State?

  • Omega Z

    Note of Interest. But nothing more…
    If you go to ECW’s link at “Cherokee-” http://www.cherokeefund.com/
    Then click on “RESOURCES-” http://www.cherokeefund.com/resources.htm

    In the little Blue box to the left you’ll see
    Environmental Management
    Community Partnerships
    Sustainability
    Clinton Global Initiative

    Clinton Global Initiative is a foundation set up by Bill & Hillary Clinton. Political Awareness?

    If you should click on “CHEROKEE RENEWABLES” it takes you to the
    Cherokee-McDonough Challenge
    Scrolling down shows people/corporations involved along with partners.
    One of which is MegaWatt Ventures.
    Long Story Short- You find all the Big Boys, GE, Boeing, Siemens and many more.

  • Omega Z

    I don’t think Their a Partner. More likely a Future Aftermarket Customer.

    Mr. Fabiani has been associated with several entities. CHEROKEE & Industrial Heat LLC & also QUANTUM LEAP LLC of which was in an ECW thread a while back.

    Cherokee and its Affiliates across Multiple Private Equity Funds total about $2 billion in investment. That’s not $2 Billion to invest in a new project. They primarily pull investors together for proposed projects. In reality, they are not that big.

    In the Article, Cherokee Investment Partners CEO Tom Darden had to be bailed out on a 7-year, $40 million Project by Donald Trump. Was in fact found in default of a deadline. Read the article for details & all involved.

    My view is they are not Big enough to do the R&D and bring the E-cat to market. So What is their Connection. Fulvio Fabiani is a Freelance HW & SW Consultant for “Future Products.”
    HW & SW-(Hardware/Software)

    A more Plausible Alternative would be Mr. Fabiani Consulting with Industrial Heat LLC on an After Market Product that makes use of the E-cat. Waste treatment, Desalinization Etc… Something more scaled to what they do. Something more feasible with a very recent $20 Million VC funded budget. (Important: Not yet reached.)

    $20 Million is long shy of what would be required for a mass production facility for E-cats. It’s Likely Rossi has already received Millions up front-His property buying spree- & in excess of $10 million already spent on R&D.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I agree. Not entity type Rossi would sell out to.

      • malkom700

        Just to produce a functioning plant, on the second day gain infinite amount of money.

    • bachcole

      Iggy and I both agree, so it must be true. (:->)

    • Daniel Maris

      I don’t think that makes sense.

      No one I know was suggesting they had $2billion to invest. But these guys are well connected and do have funds.

      Cherokee have no record in the energy field. Why are its personnel suddenly interested in setting up a company called Industrial Heat?

      I think $10million is certainly enough to complete R&D and begin producing the E Cat. These days, you can order your main parts in somewhere like China, delivered to your door in a matter of weeks. There are plenty of derelict factories in brownfield sites that can be taken over cheaply. Cherokee actually probably own a few due to their activities or have partners who can bring them forward.

      You would essentially be talking about an assembly operation in the USA, integrating the big metal parts (which are not that many) with the wriing and the control computer.

      Maybe they are thinking of setting up in somewhere like Detroit.

      • Veblin

        October 23, 2012 at 9:09 PM
        Important news are on their way.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        October 23, 2012 at 9:11 PM
        Leonardo Corp. will not be the same from the next week. I am in the USA, where an inportant event has been born from the last tests.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.

        October 24, 2012
        Industrial Heat LLC is incorporated in Delaware.

        • artefact

          good find!

        • artefact

          “November
          13th, 2012 at 11:36 AM

          I am receiving many requests of interview in this period, and I am spamming
          all of them. This comment is the answer for all: I will not release any more
          interview of any kind until the 1 MW plant for civil use will be presented to
          the public. This decision has been agreed upon between our new US Partner and
          the Trust that owns Leonardo Corp. We think any interview in this period is
          simply useless, because we have nothing to add to what we have already said,
          while we have an enormous work to do.
          I will continue to answer to the
          questions put on this blog from the readers of the Journal Of Nuclear Physics,
          though, because this blog is useful to us: here we learn, many times.
          Warm
          Regards,
          A.R.”
          So Industrial Heat seems to be the Trust that owns Leonardo Corp and the Partner is someone else !?

          • ecatworld

            I don’t think so, artefact. The Trust he talks about existed before Industrial Heat was founded. This is from February 2012 in response to questions about the Dick Smith million dollar challenge:

            ” I AM THE CEO OF LEONARDO CORPORATION AND RECENTLY LEONARDO CORPORATION BECAME PROPERTY OF A TRUST OF INVESTORS TO WHOSE ATTORNEYS I HAVE TO ANSWER. THIS, COMBINED WITH THE FACT THAT OUR 1 MW PLANTS HAVE BEEN SOLD TO AN ENTITY THAT WANTS NOT TO BE DISCLOSED (WE ARE UNDER NDA) FORBIDS ME TO TAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THIS ISSUE WITHOUT THE PERMISSIONS OF THE ATTORNEYS; THE OPINION OF THEM IS THAT THIS STUNT IS NOT SERIOUS AND THAT OUR TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT TO BE PROVEN BY A STUNT, BUT BY A REGULAR OPERATION BY THE CUSTOMERS. WE HAVE TO WORK ON MANUFACTURING LINES TO MAKE RELIABLE AND ECONOMIC OUR PRODUCTS.”

            http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/02/rossi-leonardo-corp-now-owned-by-a-trust-of-investors/

          • Daniel Maris

            It might be that Darden and others became the owners of Leonardo via the Trust…that might explain why its them rather than Rossi who are featured as directors of Industrial Heat…

            Anyway, I am personally convinced there is a Leonardo-Industrial Heat-Cherokee hook up.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            DM, I don’t see why not. Just that there are lots of similar sized companies unknown to us.
            Concerning Deka and Google, I watched some recent interviews of Dean K. and Astro T, but I didn’t see a glow of Cat in their eyes. Instead they still seemed enthusiastic about some “informatics” stuff.

          • Daniel Maris

            I’m glad this thread is getting moving now we are crawling out of the holidays! At times I thought I was keeping it going single handedly. LOL This is probably the biggest development since Rossi’s first public test in my view.

          • artefact

            The trust existed already in February 2012: “I AM THE CEO OF LEONARDO CORPORATION AND RECENTLY LEONARDO CORPORATION BECAME PROPERTY OF A TRUST OF INVESTORS TO WHOSE ATTORNEYS I HAVE TO ANSWER.”
            Either the trust became active much later (in October) or they joined the trust or they are the partner (or nothing) 🙂

          • bachcole

            That read thusly very clear to me.

        • Daniel Maris

          Excellent match for the dates – good find!

        • Andreas Moraitis

          This looks indeed convincing. But if there really were an active partnership, deleting the LinkedIn entry wouldn’t have been the smartest idea, since it only stirred up the story. Keeping still would be a more reasonable behavior in such a case.

        • bachcole

          That is very interesting!!

  • Omega Z

    I don’t think Their a Partner. More likely a Future Aftermarket Customer.

    Mr. Fabiani has been associated with several entities. CHEROKEE & Industrial Heat LLC & also QUANTUM LEAP LLC of which was in an ECW thread a while back.

    Cherokee and its Affiliates across Multiple Private Equity Funds total about $2 billion in investment. That’s not $2 Billion to invest in a new project. They primarily pull investors together for proposed projects. In reality, they are not that big.

    In the Article, Cherokee Investment Partners CEO Tom Darden had to be bailed out on a 7-year, $40 million Project by Donald Trump. Was in fact found in default of a deadline. Read the article for details & all involved.

    My view is they are not Big enough to do the R&D and bring the E-cat to market. So What is their Connection. Fulvio Fabiani is a Freelance HW & SW Consultant for “Future Products.”
    HW & SW-(Hardware/Software)

    A more Plausible Alternative would be Mr. Fabiani Consulting with Industrial Heat LLC on an After Market Product that makes use of the E-cat. Waste treatment, Desalinization Etc… Something more scaled to what they do. Something more feasible with a very recent $20 Million VC funded budget. (Important: Not yet reached.)

    $20 Million is long shy of what would be required for a mass production facility for E-cats. It’s Likely Rossi has already received Millions up front-His property buying spree- & in excess of $10 million already spent on R&D.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I agree. Not entity type Rossi would sell out to.

      • malkom700

        Just to produce a functioning plant, on the second day gain infinite amount of money.

    • bachcole

      Iggy and I both agree, so it must be true. (:->)

  • Fortyniner
    • georgehants

      Remember Peter there is no Cold Fusion, etc. all the so called scientists are earning degree’s Dr’s and professorships from dreaming up some GW effect about farts raising tempretures etc.
      As the new Ice-age moves in they will still be removing CO2, screaming our high priests told us we could make cash from guessing the future and they had a vision from their god so they did not need real Evidence.
      http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/31-12-2013/126523-criminal_global_warming_fraud-0/

    • georgehants

      Remember Peter there is no Cold Fusion, etc. all the so called scientists are earning degree’s Dr’s and professorships from dreaming up some GW effect about farts raising tempretures etc.
      As the new Ice-age moves in they will still be removing CO2, screaming our high priests told us we could make cash from guessing the future and they had a vision from their god so they did not need real Evidence.
      http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/31-12-2013/126523-criminal_global_warming_fraud-0/

  • bachcole

    Responding to Veblin’s date discovery,

    (1) What else could there be in the near future on 23 October 2012 that Rossi would be so excited about? As far as I can see, nothing.

    (2) Notice that shortly after that the heavy-duty Elforsk testing started. The Elforsk testing could already have been in the verbal stage before 24 October 2012.

    (3) Is Cherokee the “Partner” and Industrial Heat the legal construct that allows Rossi to do things that involve liability, like hot testing?

    For me, this is 75% convincing of a very close relationship between Cherokee, Industrial Heat, and Leonardo-Rossi. Industrial Heat exists solely for the purpose of developing the E-Cat, I think. It came into existence for this purpose.

    And it took us more than a year to figure this out. (:->)

    • Daniel Maris

      I’d say it was 100% convincing. Just a question of who else might be involved in funding. Could it be an individual funder (Cherokee have received some of Brad Pitt’s largesse in the past)? Or is there another company or several companies involved.

      • bachcole

        Three points stick out for me:

        (1) Someone mentions a possible connection between Industrial Heat and Fabiani and Fabiani hanks his LinkedIn account the next day.

        (2) Rossi gets excited about something in the near future on October 23rd 2012 and the very next day Industrial Heat gets incorporated in Delaware.

        (3) Shortly thereafter the Elforsk tests start.

        I confess that my eyes tend to glaze over when there are too many details. But these 3 details are difficult to forget.

        If there are more details that should raise my conviction level, let me know. But keep it short and don’t use long words. (:->)

        • ecatworld

          You have Tom Darden, CEO of Cherokee Investment Partners, in China in the role of Chairman of Industrial Heat LLC, talking about ‘clean energy projects’.

          http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.bjxinghuyuan.com/news/html/%3F429.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Industrial%2BHeat%2BLLC%2522%26start%3D20%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D673

          • bachcole

            But Frank, as interesting as that is, and as important as it may be in the future, it doesn’t connect to anything that we know for sure has anything to do with LENR on the Chinese end. Darden could be there to clean up Chinese messes for all that we know. Unless there was something that I missed. If this Chinese firm is a manufacturing firm, that would be a very mild connection since it does not tell us what Darden wants manufactured.

          • Daniel Maris

            Frank mentioned before that Rossi had talked about his American partner’s contacts with China.

            “Industrial Heat” is also a very good description of where Rossi has been saying the E Cat project has got to (he’s been downplaying domestic installation in recent months).

          • bachcole

            The Chinese connection datapoint is still kind of weak. There are 1.3 billion Chinese. It’s a big country. Perhaps we should give points for the strength of the datapoint:

            October 23rd 2012 Rossi excitement — Industrial Heat incorporation — commencement of Elforsk testing (I connect all three points) == 8 points

            Fabiani suddenly yanking (did I spell it “hanking” before? My bad. Not to be confused with “wanking” which is something Krivit will doing a lot of soon in order to distract him from realizing what a jerk he has been) his LinkedIn page == 8 points

            The Chinese connection == for me, only 2 points, not really above background noise.

          • ecatworld

            If he was there to do a cleanup project, you would think he would have been referred to as representing Cherokee Investment Partners (cleanup is what they do) — not Industrial Heat LLC. He also took along with him Daniel Pike, also listed as an Industrial Heat investor.

          • bachcole

            OK, 3 points, just slightly above background noise.

            But I like the name: Industrial Heat. That is a data point all by itself: 4.

          • bachcole

            Frank, I have to re-evaluate. Industrial Heat would not be going to China to clean up spilled wontons. I have to give that data point a 5. But remember, we are not yet positive that Industrial Heat is Rossi.

          • BroKeeper

            Roger, in many regards I hope Frank is correct. 65% of the energy power plants use coal and much of its industry.
            The lowest hanging fruit for Rossi and partner could be China.
            I remember in 1983 visiting as a tourist in Beijing the air was crystal clear. But now the surge of industry, products, automobiles and city population has caused a death choking smog to envelope the city and much of China as a whole.
            http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/01/01/3110131/fossil-fuels-linked-beijing-smog/

          • bachcole

            How could you remember anything when you were only 3 years old?

          • BroKeeper

            haha 🙂

    • artefact

      “Industrial Heat exists solely for the purpose of developing the E-Cat”
      If they market an e-cat for the home use they would have to change their name…

      • bachcole

        Nah. Everyone likes industrial grade this and that. I buy industrial strength glue and industrial grade tape etc. etc. But I doubt if they are really going to worry about it too much. Once they become famous, they could change their name to Daffy Ducks Krivits Goofball Factory, and people would still be fighting to get in line to buy their product. I sure wish I had money to buy their stock right now.

  • bachcole

    Responding to Veblin’s date discovery,

    (1) What else could there be in the near future on 23 October 2012 that Rossi would be so excited about? As far as I can see, nothing.

    (2) Notice that shortly after that the heavy-duty Elforsk testing started. The Elforsk testing could already have been in the verbal stage before 24 October 2012.

    (3) Is Cherokee the “Partner” and Industrial Heat the legal construct that allows Rossi to do things that involve liability, like hot testing?

    For me, this is 75% convincing of a very close relationship between Cherokee, Industrial Heat, and Leonardo-Rossi. Industrial Heat exists solely for the purpose of developing the E-Cat, I think. It came into existence for this purpose.

    And it took us more than a year to figure this out. (:->)

    • artefact

      “Industrial Heat exists solely for the purpose of developing the E-Cat”
      If they market an e-cat for the home use they would have to change their name…

      • bachcole

        Nah. Everyone likes industrial grade this and that. I buy industrial strength glue and industrial grade tape etc. etc. But I doubt if they are really going to worry about it too much. Once they become famous, they could change their name to Daffy Ducks Krivits Goofball Factory, and people would still be fighting to get in line to buy their product. I sure wish I had money to buy their stock right now.

  • John P

    There is a Daniel Pike of Pike Capital, he could be the Daniel Pike that is listed as an investor on the Chinese site. There is also a Daniel Pike that pinned Ecat world on Pinterest.

  • John P

    There is a Daniel Pike of Pike Capital, he could be the Daniel Pike that is listed as an investor on the Chinese site. There is also a Daniel Pike that pinned Ecat world on Pinterest.

  • Mr. Moho

    From my very limited knowledge of traditional Chinese and using Google Translate, it seems that the company that Industrial Heat LLC and Cherokee executives held talks with is called “Gaoling Energy Technology Co., Ltd.” (高灵能源投资有限公司), which Google translates as “High Spirits Energy Technologies”.

    http://huanbao.cciru.com/corp-64910.html <— Good information Google Translate is able to handle
    http://biz.ehvacr.com/sdny.co/
    http://company.zhaopin.com/P2/CC1432/4461/CC143244613.htm
    http://www.baike.com/wiki/高灵能源科技有限公司

    • Mr. Moho

      Bingo!

      http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=113

      (use google translate here, btw keep in mind that Google translate this company as “High Spirits”)

      High spirits layout Nickel Energy Energy Fund to join the United States to create new clean energy Cherokee platform 2013-10-08

      • Buck

        It seems that Chinese websites do not like to give up their secrets easily . . . the pages do not come up for me, even after waiting a few minutes. I don’t know if being located in the US has anything to do with this webpage not loading.

        • Mr. Moho
          • Buck

            YOU FOUND THE SMOKING GUN ! ! !

            Rossi . . . Cherokee . . . Industrial Heat . . . Chinese Investors . . . Chinese market

          • SiriusMan

            Yep…UNBELIEVABLY IMPORTANT!!! The word ‘nickel’ right there in print!!!

            So will China be the first country to fully embrace LENR? It would seem so…Hello new #1 world superpower!

      • artefact

        Congratulation! We seem to need your talent in the future more often 😉

      • bachcole

        All from a Google translation of the High Spirits webpage: “nickel-generation energy”, “nickel reaction”, “low temperature reaction of nickel”, “nickel energy generation”, “Nickel reaction process”, “the field of power generation reaction of nickel”. It is a touchdown, it is a winning 3 pointer with 1 second to go, it is a winning home run with the bases loaded, it is confirmation that Chinese company, Industrial Heat, Cherokee, and Rossi are all for real. I told my son to remember this day in history.

        All data points are a 10. Frank et. al. are confirmed as ace Internet investigators. It is a done deal.

      • bachcole

        Here is the entire Google translation of the webpage. I hope that there are people here who are fluent in Chinese who can give us a better translation. But this one is good enough for me so that this has become a reality for me:

        Recently,
        the president of the National Academy of planning a low-carbon energy ,
        high spirits Energy Investment Co., Ltd. President戴思嘉East Diaoyutai ‘
        Star Lake Manor Park Springs ‘ met with the chairman of the U.S. Joint
        Cherokee funds Thomas Dutton , nickel- generation energy on both sides
        of the United States technical
        problems , the exchange system of consultation , co-operation on energy
        technology to promote this revolutionary agreed understanding. National Development and Reform Commission and the leadership of SASAC and the National Energy Board took part in the meeting.

        In the context of global energy shortage , the development of new energy sources following the Chung Hing Square . Report
        at the end of the pilot phase of the nickel reaction shows that the low
        temperature reaction of nickel is the lowest power generation
        technology and abundant raw material resources of the current cost of
        power generation technology . Tests
        also showed that the nickel energy generation has very good prospects
        in addition to the economic costs, in the field of environmental
        protection also has a unique huge advantage. Nickel
        reaction process, there will be no emissions of greenhouse gases and
        other pollutants , will not produce radioactive material, but also do
        not need coal or oil and other fossil fuels .

        戴思嘉Thomas welcomed a pedestrian . He
        said that efforts to green development , the construction of ecological
        civilization, beautiful China , is every one of us better hope the
        Chinese people , but also the commitment of the Chinese government for
        the new world , the sustainable development of China’s national
        strategy. Today
        energy conservation, green development has become a global consensus ,
        as the first to enter the field of high-tech energy saving investment
        enterprises , the sole owner of the patent system storage technology
        expertise cold energy technology suppliers and service providers, with
        cutting-edge high spiritual energy technology
        and services , is unique in a number of energy companies , and is
        always on the technology and model innovation to lead the industry . Mr.
        Thomas’s team in the field of power generation reaction of nickel has
        many years of experience , both sides in respect of technical
        co-operation in the Chinese market application is fully in line with our
        industry-oriented and advantages, can unleash America ‘s most
        sophisticated technological advantage, hoping the two sides ordered the pace of cooperation and achieve mutual benefit and win-win . It
        is concerned about the high spiritual energy field of clean energy has
        the potential for significant economic and social benefits of an
        important step in the process , and with the clear section of the
        country on energy policy support growing, overwhelmed by investment
        funds and technology funds knot strength of the United States Cherokee as a strategic partner , and its prospects will be broader .

        Thomas
        Dutton said the United States attaches great importance to Cherokee
        Investment Fund and the high spirits of energy cooperation , China ‘s
        investment environment is superior , good prospects for industrial
        development is an important factor in attracting him the technology into
        the Chinese market. He
        also hoped the U.S. scientific and technological achievements , the
        development of the Chinese market full advantage of superposition ,
        hoping to deepen cooperation between the two sides to achieve common
        development .

        • Daniel Maris

          Wow! Amazing!!

          I’m not American – but I think if I was this would raise very serious questions about your Federal energy policy and what the hell your Federal government are doing blocking LENR technology! How long can this go on without entering into the mainstream media? It’s incredible that just a few hundred of us here are party to knowledge about these momentous events.

          • bachcole

            Heads will roll in shame.

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        Incredible find!!! You cracked the puzzle !

        Great news that china is involved, china can develop this technology with an incredible speed and export it to everywhere.

        • SiriusMan

          I agree. China does not have the same concerns that Western leaders have: namely how to introduce LENR while gently tip-toeing around fossil fuel lobbies.

          The article clearly states that Chinese government officials were involved. Just wait until the government directs Chinese manufacturing efforts towards LENR. You want 1 million 1MW reactors?…sure, we have 10 factories in Shenzhen working on it right now!

          • bachcole

            So, SiriusMan, are you saying that economically speaking there is more freedom in China than there is in the USA? If you aren’t, then I am. Despite being nominally Communist, the Chinese government is very pro-business, while our government wants to outlaw horses in Central Park of New York City, for humane reasons.

          • Daniel Maris

            I think you’re right – China can deliver this fast if they choose to. They have serious air pollution issues in their big cities. Though a dictatorship, they cannot ignore public opinion on this.

          • bachcole

            Not all dictatorships are created equal. The good thing about dictatorships is that once they know what is going on they can move much faster than a system that has to follow constitutions, consult with Congress, make sure it is all legal, consult with constituents, consult with experts, consult with lobbyists, try to get re-elected.

            I honestly believe that the Chinese government, as shitty as it used to be, has evolved into a much more humane and service oriented dictatorship than it was 40 years ago.

            My understanding is weak, but I saw this TED talk by a Chinese-American scholar who pointed out that the current regime is trying to get back to a tried and true system. It goes like this: There is this inner core of people whose only task is to make sure that government bureaucrats are geared towards effective government service. This inner core has no other purpose. They do not set policy. Any self-aggrandizement, including corruption, is dealt with very severely, including but not limited to executions.

            The constant need to try to get re-elected is not necessarily the only way that works, like Obama’s telling Putin that once he starts his second term he can be more effective. We all know that most if not all Congressional Representatives main job is to get re-elected.

      • Mr. Moho

        A few patents showing that the company is specialized in refrigeration systems:
        http://www.icebank.cn/about/credit.php

        In detail, have a look at patent number ZL200620159854.5

        In English: http://www.google.com/patents/CN200979323Y?cl=en
        Application number: CN 200620159854 (matches the patent number above beginning with “ZL”)

        Have a look at the Owner Name on the bottom of the page. It shows that the company is supposed to be named “BEIJING GAO LING ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO.” as I suggested in a previous comment. Not much information about it in the English-speaking world, as far as I can find at least.

        • bachcole

          Dear Frank and Mr. Moho,

          I award you jointly the Noble Award for Investigative Journalism. (Not the Nobel Award, but rather much better.) You both have become my favorite Rossi commenters. Good work.

      • ecatworld

        Just got in from running errands — great find Mr. Moho!

        • Daniel Maris

          Nickel Energy? Well that’s got to be the slam dunk hasn’t it?

        • bachcole

          Oh, I’m going to get counseled by Frank for commenting too much, but I cannot contain my excitement, and my wife just wants to know when we can install one and lower our bills “other wise please stop pestering me” and my 14 year old son who barely appreciates what is going on. So all of my excitement spills out over on to my email friends, most of whom are you guys.

          To be at the birth of the greatest invention in the history of the world is quite something. How many were there at Kitty Hawk on December 17th 1903? We are at the very beginning of the biggest change since the rather slow advent of the Industrial Age, a rather messy and polluted age.

          • Daniel Maris

            I agree, this does feel like it could be a very big event we are witnessing and I feel v. happy to have been in on the birth! 🙂

            Of course, a lot remains to be clarified but compared with just a week ago, things really do look a lot clearer.

            I wouldn’t hold out for a domestic unit any time soon though. You might be better off with the TAPS innovation.

          • bachcole

            Are you going to make me investigate the TAPS innovation? I have so many emails to go through.

          • ecatworld

            I think I need to counsel with you, Roger . . . .

            No — not at all. I am working on a new article, trying to get the information straight here

            Trying Bing Translate of the same article to see if anything is clearer

            Recently, the National Academy of low-carbon energy plan , High being the energy investment company President Dai Sijia fishing in the East ‘ Star Lake Manor Park hot springs ‘ met with United States Cherokee tuomasi·dadun Fund co-chairs, both United States nickel generation energy technology issues, consultations conducted systematic exchanges, cooperate to advance this revolutionary energy technology reached a consensus. National development and Reform Commission and the State-owned assets supervision and concerned leaders of the National Energy Board, attended the meeting.

            In the context of a global energy shortage, square following the new energy development. According to a report in the nickel reaction test phase, low-temperature power generation technology is currently the lowest-cost nickel reaction and generation technology of raw material is rich in resources. Tests also showed that NI power generation but has very good prospects in economic costs, in the area of environmental protection also has a lot of great advantages. In NI during the reaction, there will be no emission of greenhouse gases and other pollutants, does not produce radioactive materials without fossil fuels such as coal or oil.

            Dai Sijia Thomas party were welcome. He said that commitment to green development, construction of ecological civilization of beautiful China is our beautiful hope of every Chinese, is also China’s new Government’s commitment to the world, China’s national strategy for sustainable development. Today’s energy-saving and emission reduction, green development has become a global consensus, as the earliest access to investment in energy-saving technology in the field of energy enterprises, only has the patent professional cold energy storage technology system technology suppliers and service providers, high being energy relies on cutting-edge technology and services, among the many energy companies is unique, and always in the forefront of technology and innovation going on in the industry. Mr Thomas’s team in nickel reaction research has many years of experience in the field of power generation, both on the technical applications to work together in the Chinese market completely in line with China’s industrial guidance and advantage that can fully release the United States the advantage of cutting edge technology and hopes the two sides pushed forward cooperation and achieve mutual benefit and win-win situation. This is high being the energy concern has significant economic potential and social benefits of clean energy, an important step in the process, and with national policies to support efforts to clear energy is growing, this financial strength and technology United States Cherokee Investment Fund became strategic partners, would be more broad prospects for its development.

            Tuomasi·dadun said the United States Cherokee Investment Fund attaches great importance and high being the energy cooperation, China’s favorable investment environment and good development prospects are attracted him to bring the technology into the Chinese market an important factor. He also hoped that the US side’s advantage of scientific and technological achievements, the development of Chinese market full overlay, and hopes the two sides will deepen cooperation and achieve common development.

  • artefact

    bad joke but sooner or later it will be made by someone:
    ice bank mice elf (say it out loud)

  • artefact

    bad joke but sooner or later it will be made by someone:
    ice bank mice elf (say it out loud)

  • bachcole

    Mr. Moto, you are the man of the hour. (Frank was the man of the last hour.)!!!!

  • bachcole

    Mr. Moto, you are the man of the hour. (Frank was the man of the last hour.)!!!!

  • bachcole

    The members of this forum are like a bunch of serious and intelligent mice. We keep nibbling away with tiny bites, but eventually we break through to the kitchen and have a party with the good stuff. I would be drinking champaign now, but I don’t drink alcohol. I think I will go have a strawberry-kefir smoothie with fish oil and stevia and celebrate. (:->)

  • bachcole

    The members of this forum are like a bunch of serious and intelligent mice. We keep nibbling away with tiny bites, but eventually we break through to the kitchen and have a party with the good stuff. I would be drinking champaign now, but I don’t drink alcohol. I think I will go have a strawberry-kefir smoothie with fish oil and stevia and celebrate. (:->)

  • Buck

    A question should be raised now that the following links have been established:
    E-Cat/Hot-Cat LENR >> Chinese Investors >> Chinese Gov’t Involvement >> Chinese Market

    When will behind-the-scenes decisions become apparent by the public disclosure of the constructive involvement of large US business(es) and/or US Government in LENR development and implementation?

    I suggest it is now reasonable to think that 2014/2015 will be when an industrial LENR device can be installed in a retrofitted power plant.

    The reason I pose this questions is that I find it difficult to imagine the US political structure will ‘allow’ China to gain a lead in what will likely become recognized as one of the greatest discoveries of humanity. After all, the US claims great pride in its willingness to promulgate capitalistic ‘Creative Destruction’.

    • Daniel Maris

      On the face of it, what you say is v. reasonable. Why on earth would the USA throw away this lead in this way? But on the other hand, we can see there is a powerful network of anti-cold fusionists working within the APS, MIT, NASA, DOE, the carbon industries etc. Maybe they really have boxed themselves into a corner?

      I agree that we really are reaching the climax here.

      • Buck

        Daniel,

        IMO, when theory/speculation becomes reality, it becomes politically legitimate to develop a backbone and to “cut” ties. It would be extremely painful, but the decision maker has the full shield of “the circumstances have changed” logic.

        For me, this is why it is reasonable to raise the question. The test of character will be whether the political decision maker comprehends the reality of the situation and “cuts” ties and grabs onto the future.

        • Daniel Maris

          Politicians tend to be good futurologists actually. I think if what we appear to be seeing – the development of a cold fusion technology with a strong Chinese input – is in fact the case, then American politicians will quickly latch on to this and see the implications – not just for China and the USA but across the world, not least the Mid East. Imagine if Saudi Arabia and Iran were to be faced with finding their principal source of revenue would be reduced by 80% over the next 20 years…there would be huge, huge implications.

          • SiriusMan

            I think 20 years sounds like a long time – I doubt it will take that long.

            I agree the implications are enormous. A shift in power is taking place right here.

          • Daniel Maris

            You may be right but for each individual economic outfit, if they have already sunk capital costs into carbon-based energies, there is little incentive to put capital investment immediately into E Cat technology (in case you’re wondering it’s not going to be a “free” energy – it will just be a v. low cost energy). That’s why I think people will not switch immediately to E Cat but only when their plant, boilers etc come up for renewal. On that basis a general shift would take 20 years.

          • SiriusMan

            I agree that there will be a period when the existing infrastructure will still be employed..but if LENR reactors really do become widely available, it is not hard to imagine that this new energy source could be used to generate large quantities of carbon-based fuels.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process

            With a cheap, non-polluting energy supply, you can even scrub the atmosphere of excess CO2 while you are at it!

            It would certainly be easier to get hydrocarbons this way, than go through all the hassles of prospecting, drilling, refining etc.

            In that case, the oil-producing entities are out of business sooner rather than later.

          • Daniel Maris

            Yes, that certainly becomes a possibility. It depends how cheap it will be. My guesstimate is that if the technology works as expected we might be talking about 2 cents per KwH production cost, which will beat all other energy technologies, but may not usher in a new age of plenty.

            I think it’s principal effects will be first to deliver cheap energy that will benefit a lot of poor people in their homes and add a few percentage points to world GDP…and then secondly produce a much cleaner environment – markedly so in places like China.

            Of course this technology is going to be improved over time.

            Another impact will be that people will make more serious enquiries of other potential new technologies.

          • Buck

            I agree with your notion of decades as the time frame over which to expect changes.

            What is difficult to assess is the confluence of several issues:
            > rapid evolution of LENR technology leading to dramatic reductions of cost of electricity
            > rapid change in world culture centered around chasing and aligning social/governmental policies supporting the value of a non-polluting essentially free energy supply.

            These two factors can push a rigorous financial cost benefit analysis where sunk costs are held in low priority towards a switch towards LENR energy. It may accelerate changes. But even so, a reduction of oil consumption by 80% over twenty years is a massive change. I expect coal would be closer to a 95% reduction.

          • Buck

            I know that I don’t know the truth of when the Political Structure will switch from assessing LENR as “theory/speculation” to “fact”. Time will tell.

            I agree with you on the implications . . . it is phenomenal as to the scope.

          • bachcole

            I thought that the Political Structure was currently assessing LENR as bullshit.

          • Buck

            Roger, it is. But, if LENR is ‘real’ for the Chinese government, then how quickly will the developed countries adjust their ties to the interests vested in fossil energy/fuel to allow the ‘reality’ of LENR so as to not be left behind the Chinese?

        • bachcole

          Why is it that I am the one that has to keep you guys in line?

          In a world of plenty rather than scarcity, competition will be significantly less severe. I don’t think that LENR+ will take us all of the way to the promised land, but it will take us a very long ways towards plenty. This means that I don’t give a fig if the Chinese or the Mongolians or the Bhutanese are “ahead” of us with regard to LENR+. So what if we are a year or two behind the Chinese. By the time the Chinese finish their designs for a LENR+ powered aircraft carrier, but before they even do the first weld, most people, including the Chinese government, will realize that aircraft carriers won’t be needed. For one thing, and just one thing, why defend oil sea lanes when the flow of oil is obviously going to shrink when oil become much less important.

          • Buck

            Roger,

            I’m with you . . . however, the political structure is not. It will take time for them to recognize that LENR+ is real and that it is ‘now’.

      • Buck

        Daniel, apparently someone upstairs heard my question. The DOE on 9/27/2013 opened the door to federal funding of LENR R&D.

        https://news.newenergytimes.net/2014/01/03/u-s-department-of-energy-invites-submission-of-lenr-proposals/

  • bachcole

    There is, of course, one slight problem, for now. It won’t be easy to fit these datapoints together for people who might think that the whole idea is nutty or who don’t have the time to check it out themselves. Most of my personal contacts will simply trust me.

    But, to commemorate this moment, I have selected this piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbq6AoquhI Only when Lully says “No” so dramatically, he means “No, we will not renew our fossil fuel contracts.” And at the beginning, the dude pacing up and down is Krivit trying to figure out what he is going to do for a living. (:->)

  • Buck

    A question should be raised now that the following links have been established:
    E-Cat/Hot-Cat LENR >> Chinese Investors >> Chinese Gov’t Involvement >> Chinese Market

    When will behind-the-scenes decisions become apparent by the public disclosure of the constructive involvement of large US business(es) and/or US Government in LENR development and implementation?

    I suggest it is now reasonable to think that 2014/2015 will be when an industrial LENR device can be installed in a retrofitted power plant.

    The reason I pose this questions is that I find it difficult to imagine the US political structure ‘allowing’ China to gain a lead in what will likely become recognized as one of the greatest discoveries of humanity.

    • deleo77

      I would say it is a combination of China and the U.S. Europe and Japan may be the one’s left out in the cold. Industrial Heat is an American company with American and Chinese investors. So much manufacturing is done in China, it makes sense for them to be a player in what will initially be a product geared towards industrial and manufacturing sites.

      Also, I don’t think Industrial Heat, LLC is the final name of the company. It is just a working name. And $11.5MM is a good amount for R&D but that money is not intended to finance manufacturing and the roll out. It is just R&D money. Another much larger capital raise will happen if/when they get a product that is viable for mass production.

      • Buck

        Deleo,

        I’m not inclined to think any will be left out in the cold, certainly not the countries you mention.

        It is the tension of this tipping point that triggers me to raise the question in the first place. The power of the legacy industries/academic disciplines is being shifted . . . and as we are mindful of our view of the situation, we get to watch.

  • bachcole

    There is, of course, one slight problem, for now. It won’t be easy to fit these datapoints together for people who might think that the whole idea is nutty or who don’t have the time to check it out themselves. Most of my personal contacts will simply trust me.

    But, to commemorate this moment, I have selected this piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbq6AoquhI Only when Lully says “No” so dramatically, he means “No, we will not renew our fossil fuel contracts.” And at the beginning, the dude pacing up and down is Krivit trying to figure out what he is going to do for a living. (:->)

  • Mr. Moho

    I wonder if Gao Ling High Energy is somehow related to Calmac (USA)
    http://www.calmac.com/

    They have an “IceBank” product line for ice storage… same as the other company. Coincidence? Did the chinese licence their technology? Or is it yet another case of chinese IP theft?

    On the GLHE website I found this, btw (Google Translated). Again, the company name is translated as “high spirits” by Google:

    April 2011
    – National Development and Reform Commission to become “China Energy Storage Technology Center” corporate units

    High spirits ICEBANK ice storage technology is included in the twelfth installment of Beijing Independent Innovation Products Catalog

    – “Ice storage air-conditioning heat pump system” and “a large ice storage central air-conditioning system,” the two R & D projects are Beijing Torch Program project

    From http://www.icebank.cn/about/credit.php (clock the cup-shaped clip art, then Google Translate)

  • LuFong

    Well it’s looking more and more a more like Cherokee Investment Partners is Rossi’s American partner. Not quite the multinational energy conglomerate specializing in energy production and distribution Rossi implied and most of us were expecting but I’m not surprised as this would be typical Rossi. A company like GE, Westinghouse, or Babcock & Wilsox would have fit Rossi’s description much better.

    It’s an interesting exercise to go through Rossi’s blog and consider everything Rossi has said about his Partner in the context of Cherokee Investment Partners. I will leave it all up to you to draw your own conclusions.

    Happy New Year.

    • bachcole

      I way more trust a nimble company like Cherokee/Industrial Heat than I do a dinosaur like GE. And anyway, if GE et. al. can’t see that Rossi has the goods ( we and Cherokee can), then GE isn’t capable enough to make the E-Cat a household name.

  • Mr. Moho

    Here’s the Google+ page of Hady Hartanto (Gao Ling Energy Technology co-founder and Industrial Heat LLC investor):

    https://plus.google.com/117068969545152366836

    He’s got Tom Darden (Cherokee CEO) in his circles.

  • Mr. Moho

    Here’s Industrial Heat LLC investor Daniel Pike:
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/danielpike
    http://www.pinterest.com/danielpike/
    https://www.facebook.com/jdpike (not public)

    On the second photo here, western guy on the front left:
    http://www.bjxinghuyuan.com/news/html/?429.html

  • Daniel Maris

    Is Stephen Hartanto Indonesian – from Medan?

    • Mr. Moho

      He does mention he speaks Indonesian in his LinkedIn page.

      • Daniel Maris

        I found a pic that looks like him from his teenage years when based in Medan, Indonesia.

  • Daniel Maris

    Stephen Hartanto was involved with “JW Marriott Food and Beverage Department in Hong Kong” – I just point out that food processing companies often require hot water for their processing activities, which again could be a good fit for the E Cat.

    • Mr. Moho

      I find more interesting/curious that the two Hartanto’s have been seemingly involved involved in a deal between the companies they respectively work with (although Hady founded his one).

      • Daniel Maris

        Isn’t that how things work in Indonesia?

  • Daniel Maris

    I would just like to say, that what our industrious mice here have discovered does amount to a hard news story: big investors, nickel energy, Chinese government officials, Rossi links. I can’t see how the mainstream media can possibly ignore this. Can you?

    But what if they do ignore it? What does that tell you? I find it more and more amazing what does get ignored.

    • Mr. Moho

      I think Fulvio Fabiani might be in trouble now 😀

      However, nothing is official yet, and the connections that have been found today do not directly point to Rossi or even LENR. There’s not much that the mainstream media can write about for the general public.

      • Daniel Maris

        Well I don’t agree. They have the resources to investigate. They have all the leads here to begin their investigations. I think there’s a whole load they could write.

        Circumstantial evidence is admissable in a court of law – and there is more than enough circumstantial evidence linking Rossi with Cherokee and Industrial Heat:

        Fabiani, timings of his announcement linked to formation of Industrial Heat, Fabiani removing the reference as soon as it came to notice here, the perfect fit of the name “Industrial Heat” with what Rossi has been describing of their activities, Rossi’s mention of his American partner’s China contacts…

        Also, the clock is ticking. I am sure Frank has been asking Cherokee for comment. The more we don’t get a straight denial the more we get a confirmation.

        • ecatworld

          Yes I have, no response from Mr. Darden yet. And Andrea Rossi won’t discuss the partner either.

    • bachcole

      I believe that is takes too much study (and attention span) for a “nut job” case for them to see. Other fringe and specialty news media will have to look into it first. Then perhaps it will spread.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Heat & Ice, Yin & Yang.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Heat & Ice, Yin & Yang.

  • Frank

    Darden is connected to Google through Cradle to Cradle architect William McDonough; McDonough is connected to Google. See http://cherokeechallenge.com/ and http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/11/01/8392027/. Don’t count Google’s involvement out yet.

    • ecatworld

      Very true, Frank. Bill McDonough is connected to lots of US and overseas companies and governments.

      Also we should note that Tom Darden’s son — also named Tom Darden — is executive director of Make it Right, a nonprofit founded by Brad Pitt to redesign and rebuild damaged communities, such as New Orleans. Bill Clinton is a champion of this organization.

      • Daniel Maris

        Seems to be quite a power network there.

  • Frank

    Darden is connected to Google through Cradle to Cradle architect William McDonough; McDonough is connected to Google. See http://cherokeechallenge.com/ and http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/11/01/8392027/. Don’t count Google’s involvement out yet.

    • Frank Acland

      Very true, Frank. Bill McDonough is connected to lots of US and overseas companies and governments.

      Also we should note that Tom Darden’s son — also named Tom Darden — is executive director of Make it Right, a nonprofit founded by Brad Pitt to redesign and rebuild damaged communities, such as New Orleans. Bill Clinton is a champion of this organization.

  • Buck

    Deleo,

    I’m not inclined to think any will be left out in the cold, certainly not the countries you mention.

    It is the tension of this tipping point that triggers me to raise the question in the first place. The power of the legacy industries/academic disciplines is being shifted . . . and we get to watch.

  • Daniel Maris

    Both Europe and Japan have pretty high energy costs compared with US and China, so they may still be beneficiaries with licensed technology.

    I think you make a good point about the name of the company. Of course a company can adopt a trading name. It might call itself Nickel Power or whatever without changing the company name. I found the workmanlike name an encouraging sign.

    I agree that this is just a first tranche. That’s why I think the fact Cherokee is linked in with a $2 billion investment fund is significant. If this is a viable technology, the investment funds will flow in pretty quickly.

    • bachcole

      tranche: a division or portion of a pool or whole; specifically :
      an issue of bonds derived from a pooling of like obligations (as
      securitized mortgage debt) that is differentiated from other issues
      especially by maturity or rate of return

  • ecatworld

    Anyone want to talk in real time on LENRConnect? I’m there in the main chat room.
    http://www.lenrconnect.com

  • Frank Acland

    Anyone want to talk in real time on LENRConnect? I’m there in the main chat room.
    http://www.lenrconnect.com

  • Daniel Maris

    I think someone is going to have to produce a Mind Map/Spider Diagram to plot all the connections soon.

    • Mr. Moho

      Wasn’t there one linked here a couple days ago? I wonder how it looks now.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yes, I think that was based on previous – much looser – speculation . I couldn’t view it on my computer for some reason. Perhaps you should produce a first effort Mr Moho since you seem up to speed! 🙂

  • Daniel Maris

    OK, I am predicting a hell of a lot of interest in this subject come Monday when all the business folk get back behind their desks.

  • Frank M.

    “Silvio Caggia:
    As you explained in an email sent to me privately, “from cradle to cradle product” means essentially a product wasteless during the production, the working life and the dismission: in this case, yes, the E-Cat is a cradle to cradle product. All the components are recyclable and the “wastes” are recyclable metals.
    Thank you for the interesting question.
    Warm Regards,”

    Cradle to Cradle a term coined by Bill McDonough, although here Rossi essentially has the words put in his mouth by Silvio.

  • Frank M.

    “Silvio Caggia:
    As you explained in an email sent to me privately, “from cradle to cradle product” means essentially a product wasteless during the production, the working life and the dismission: in this case, yes, the E-Cat is a cradle to cradle product. All the components are recyclable and the “wastes” are recyclable metals.
    Thank you for the interesting question.
    Warm Regards,”

    Cradle to Cradle a term coined by Bill McDonough, although here Rossi essentially has the words put in his mouth by Silvio.