Solved — The Company that Owns the E-Cat (Guest Post)

The following is a guest post by Rick Allen. The opinions expressed in guest posts are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of E-Cat World.

By putting together several pieces of information that were publicly available on the internet, the identity of the company that owns the E-Cat has been determined: Cherokee Investment Partners LLC. This company created Industrial Heat LLC, funded it with approximately eleven million dollars, acquired the rights to the E-Cat technology, and appointed Andrea Rossi as Chief Scientist.

This ends the mystery about who owns the E-Cat technology, and it also gives us additional information. First, it tells us Andrea Rossi now works for a company that has access to the necessary capital to adequately fund the commercialization of the technology. Secondly, it lets us know that he works for a company with enough experience, funding, and connections to provide top notch scientists and engineers to fully develop the technology. Third, it makes us aware of the Chinese involvement. With the significant connections between Cherokee and China, the E-Cat will have access to an enormous market where an alternative source of clean energy is desperately needed.

I think the Chinese connection may be the most significant aspect of this revelation. Currently, China is suffering from horrible pollution problems due largely to countless coal burning power plants. The construction of these plants are continuing, and their emissions are having an impact on the entire world. If E-Cat technology is adopted and allowed to proliferate in China, it could solve many of the environmental and economic challenges the nation is facing. A source of pollution free, dirt cheap, and safe energy would be very useful to a nation with over a billion citizens

Actually, it may be more likely for the technology to be quickly adopted in China than the United States. This is because, possibly, there may be fewer regulatory restrictions and laws created to hinder the adoption of the technology. In the United States, there is a stigma attached to anything that claims to be “nuclear.” It’s possible that due to the sue-happy, ultra litigious culture of the USA, many groups may try to prevent the technology from being commercialized by urging the government to strictly regulate it in the name of safety. Of course this will be ridiculous, because nickel hydrogen fusion is inherently safe (no nuclear fuel, no nuclear waste, no radiation escaping the reactor, no potential for weaponization, and no conventional melt down possible), but overly cautious individuals and organizations will probably try to claim the technology is dangerous.

What people need to realize is that many of the technologies that allowed our modern civilization to come about were dangerous at first. Steam boilers in trains often exploded, many of the associates of the Wright Brothers died in airplane crashes, and people were electrocuted as the first cities were wired up. However, instead of putting excessive regulations on these technologies, they were allowed to proliferate. If the United States had the same culture back then as it does today, I’m certain that it would have taken each of these technologies decades longer to mature. We might only be flying in Piper Cubs, only have DC current, and be using horse powered buggies to get around today if these attitudes existed back then.

It’s my hope that China will embrace the E-Cat as vigorously and rapidly as the United States adopted all these technologies a hundred years ago. They say necessity is the mother of invention. I would take this further and say that need is the mother of adoption. China needs a clean, alternative technology more than any other nation: they have more mouths to feed, more homes to power, and more cities to develop. I hope they put aside any potential fears about the technology and use it to make their nation a better place and improve the lives of their people. Once other nations see the advantages China is obtaining by using the technology, they will be forced to adopt it as well. No one wants to be outdone by their neighbors or competitors.

Some may claim that China gaining access to the technology is not a good thing, claiming that the communistic system is evil, and the nation oppresses their people. I for one think we need to put aside all political considerations when it comes to supporting the spread of this technology. It needs to be used by all nations regardless of size, population, culture, or political structure. The United States had its chance to adopt cold fusion or LENR technology decades ago, but certain individuals, educational institutions, and government agencies did everything they could to suppress the technology. Since the United States suppressed this technology for so long, I think justice may be served if China or some other nation is the first to adopt it.

Now we must wait for Cherokee to formally announce their involvement. The sooner this happens the better. Just as badly as we need this technology, we also need hope. We need hope for a world without poverty, economic upheaval, pollution, and constant warfare. The E-Cat is not going to automatically solve all these problems, but it may be the one technology with the most potential to help.

Rick Allen

  • Paul Smith

    Very good. So in a very near future, this will be another thing “Made in China”. But it’s OK if this is the only way we can have it in shorter time

  • Alberonn

    Excellent analysis… Well spoken !

  • Fortyniner

    That seems to be a fair summary. The only point at which I would differ is that I doubt that Cherokee directly funded Industrial Heat with its own money. I think there is probably one more party involved – a corporation already in the energy sector, who provided the backing, probably in exchange for a significant share of ‘Industrial Heat’ who are probably the paper owner of the IP.

    This corporate backer is most probably the entity that Rossi has dropped various hints about in the past (‘battleships’ etc). In addition to acquiring a significant stake in CF, by acting through a 3rd party they would be able to restructure quietly in preparation for a formal ‘launch’ of a product. For this reason I think all parties may be more careful in future about leaving trails that can be uncovered by the kind of impressive ‘sleuthing’ we have just seen. If a blog poster can do it, competitors and potential buyers of unwanted assets can as well, which could be potentially damaging to the interests involved.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      There may be a 900# gorilla lurking behind the curtain.

  • That seems to be a fair summary. The only point at which I would differ is that I doubt that Cherokee directly funded Industrial Heat with its own money. I think there might be at least one more party involved – a corporation already in the energy sector, who provided the backing through Cherokee, probably in exchange for a significant share of ‘Industrial Heat’, which is likely to be the paper owner of the IP. IH possibly incorporates Rossi’s ‘Leonardo’ team plus maybe some new recruits and a research facility with managers from Cherokee. The facility need not be much more than a modest but well equipped industrial unit which could be located on a secure site such as a power station.

    This corporate backer is most probably the entity that Rossi has dropped various hints about in the past (‘battleships’ etc). In addition to acquiring a significant stake in CF, by acting through a 3rd party they would be able to restructure quietly in preparation for a formal ‘launch’ of a product. For this reason I think all parties may be more careful in future about leaving trails that can be uncovered by the kind of impressive ‘sleuthing’ we have just seen. If ‘Mr. Moho’ can do it, competitors and potential buyers of unwanted assets can as well, which could be potentially damaging to the interests involved.

    As far as China is concerned, it’s pretty clear that what the article is reporting is so far just a sales pitch by Darden, and the Chinese govt may or may not respond to whatever is on offer. Presumably the refrigeration co that hosted the meeting hopes to be the first Chinese manufacturer of some kind of CF device. A long time ago when Rossi was talking about robot factories, I speculated about US-made cores being shipped to China for incorporation into products made by ‘white goods’ manufacturers, and something along those lines may now finally be on the table.

    One very exciting possibility might be that having realised that non-industrial applications such as the ‘home’ e-cat and vehicle propulsion units will be effectively resisted by vested interests in the US citing ‘safety’, Rossi and Darden are now turning to China to develop this aspect only, while the industrial technology remains in the USA (manufactured initially by the corporate backer?). That might mean that either a licensing model for domestic/private devices is being considered, or if a deal is agreed, recyclable reactor cores made under secure conditions in the US might be sent to China for installation in whatever is being manufactured there. Perhaps the hope is that once the Chinese are seen to be using the technology, resistance in the US and Europe will have to fold.

    Things are certainly moving behind the stage curtain. Exciting times.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      There may be a 900# gorilla lurking behind the curtain.

  • Julian Becker

    I think China should be the major market for the Ecat. I live near Shanghai and this year´s pollution was deadly.

  • Mr. Moho

    Hey, can you read traditional Chinese?
    You could help Frank of ecatworld getting the gist of the recent two important news articles in Chinese about Industrial Heat LLC/Cherokee. There might still be details we overlooked or misunderstood.

    • Julian Becker

      I could give it a try. I am not Chinese though. My Chinese is Mamahuhu

  • LENR G

    This is all quite fascinating. The one thing that might trump oil dollars and all the other resistance we might expect in the US is fear of China lapping us.

    When this all goes public we should be prepared to leverage this into a worldwide race to commercialize LENR that will benefit all of mankind. We need to start practicing our indignation. “You’re going to let China own this century because some anti-science moron taking money from big oil tells you fracking is good for you????!!!!”

    I wonder if the China angle is a well-thought-out strategy by Rossi or if it’s just the way it happened to go.

    • Buck

      I believe this turn of events was predictable and could have been part of a strategic assessment by Rossi . . . . playing one country against another was very necessary because of the global influence of the $5Trillion Fossil Fuel/Energy business interests.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yes, that occurred to me, that Rossi chose Cherokee precisely because they wanted to pursue this strategy. It may well prove the quickest forward to world-wide adoption of the technology – just as China sending a man to the moon will be the quickest way to see an American Lunar Base developed!

        • Buck

          It fits . . . The power of perceived self-interest and the reactive mindset.

  • This is all quite fascinating. The one thing that might trump oil dollars and all the other resistance we might expect in the US is fear of China lapping us.

    When this all goes public we should be prepared to leverage this into a worldwide race to commercialize LENR that will benefit all of mankind. We need to start practicing our indignation. “You’re going to let China own this century because some anti-science moron taking money from big oil tells you fracking is good for you????!!!!”

    I wonder if the China angle is a well-thought-out strategy by Rossi or if it’s just the way it happened to go.

    • Buck

      I believe this turn of events was predictable and could have been part of a strategic assessment by Rossi . . . . playing one country against another was very necessary because of the global influence of the $5Trillion Fossil Fuel/Energy business interests. In our set of political systems across the globe, only a country has the power to override Fossil Energy interests.

      I expect that if it is ever discussed by Rossi, it will come out as a bit of strategy and a bit of luck . . . . if the two parties never meet (Rossi & an entity like Cherokee) then the strategy can never be executed.

      • Udi

        I am not sure this was Rossi’s move, but rather Cherokee who saw the opportunities in China and decided to put their money into LENR.

        Rossi does not strike me a a strategic thinker or business man, he is more of a visionary scientist/entrepreneur type.

        • Buck

          Udi, one thing is certain . . . something good appears to have happened when Rossi and Cherokee became partners.

      • Joe Shea

        Let’s not forget that China has very substantial oil companies that are among the largest in the world, and that they have a power base and influence on the Politburo. They might decide to fight the E-Cat tooth and nail.

        • Buck

          I would be surprised if they didn’t put up some sort of fight.

          IMO, a question the leadership will have to answer is whether they want to be left behind by choosing Fossil Fuels over LENR. At this point, the Chinese leadership is choosing to become more assertive militarily, adding a competitive dimension to the question.

          Do they want the US, S. Korea, Japan, etc to have LENR, leaving their own country behind?

          It is my hope that all countries will recognize the benefits of moving to LENR and not being left behind.

  • Daniel Maris

    One point – the Chinese government may indeed be desperate for this technology, not because of altruistic concerns about pollution but because pollution often results in political discontent. The Chinese people are becoming increasingly intolerant of the levels of pollutants and the risks that represents to the health of their – often just a single, precious – child.

  • Daniel Maris

    Very good article.

  • Christopher Calder

    I agree the USA is a regulatory mess. China is also working on the liquid fluoride thorium reactor, while the USA is doing nothing. 11 million dollars is not much money. I was hoping for a bigger company, but maybe they can do it on the cheap. This technology can change very fast because you can redesign the reactor in a day. Fission reactors take years to redesign. I believe the hot-cat reactor is basically just a pipe full of chemicals.

  • I agree the USA is a regulatory mess. China is also working on the liquid fluoride thorium reactor, while the USA is doing nothing. 11 million dollars is not much money. I was hoping for a bigger company, but maybe they can do it on the cheap. This technology can change very fast because you can redesign the reactor in a day. Fission reactors take years to redesign. I believe the hot-cat reactor is basically just a pipe full of chemicals.

    • Russ Hamilton

      As far as a for sure technology that works, there is nothing in my mind that would beat LFTR, and I remain mystified as to why this technology has not been developed in the USA.

  • BroKeeper

    I agree in all points. Maybe this is a no-brainer, but I just wanted to add that a rational amount of control will be required to keep this technology, with unknown limits to its power, away from the terrorists. This is one of Rossi’s greatest concerns. Yes, I realize there have always been terrorists and the unavoidability some will have access. I’m just saying we need to weigh in balance the need for reasonable security to maintain peace, so the millions-billions lives saved with this technology will be enhanced through that peace. What is the quality of life if shadowed in fear? Perhaps LENR alone will begin reducing terrorism born out of poverty – we can only hope. Great analysis Rick!

    • mytakeis

      With free energy and a hopeful future there may be far less terrorists around. It’s the denial of hope and ability to exist that breeds terrorism to begin with. My optimistic counter view.

  • Brokeeper

    I agree in all points. Maybe this is a no-brainer, but I just wanted to add that a rational amount of control will be required to keep this technology, with unknown limits to its power, away from the terrorists. This is one of Rossi’s greatest concerns. Yes, I realize there have always been terrorists and the unavoidability some will have access. I’m just saying we need to weigh in balance the need for reasonable security to maintain peace, so the millions-billions lives saved with this technology will be enhanced through that peace. What is the quality of life if shadowed in fear? Perhaps LENR alone will begin reducing terrorism born out of poverty – we can only hope. Great analysis Rick!

    • HS61AF91

      With free energy and a hopeful future there may be far less terrorists around. It’s the denial of hope and ability to exist that breeds terrorism to begin with. My optimistic counter view.

  • Bruce Williams

    Bravo Rick, very well said. There must be many LENR followers who will agree with your sentiments.

  • Bruce Williams

    Bravo Rick, very well said. There must be many LENR followers who will agree with your sentiments.

  • Marc Ellenbroek

    Good article. I just miss the influence of those who rule the world: The ‘World Richest’s’. I believe those were/are responsible that LENR did/does not get the attention it should have had. Now China may be involved, they have to support LENR, otherwise they loose their influence. Great development!

  • Marc Ellenbroek

    Good article. I just miss the influence of those who rule the world: The ‘World Richest’s’. I believe those were/are responsible that LENR did/does not get the attention it should have had. Now China may be involved, they have to support LENR, otherwise they loose their influence. Great development!

  • GreenWin

    The work done in New Orleans 9th Ward is laudable. Here is more background on the principles. http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/print-edition/2013/07/12/tom-darden-and-partners-reorient-the.html?page=all

    “Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

    Mark Twain

  • GreenWin

    The work done in New Orleans 9th Ward is laudable. Here is more background on the principles. http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/print-edition/2013/07/12/tom-darden-and-partners-reorient-the.html?page=all

    “Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

    Mark Twain

  • Donk970

    The China connection is the most important by far. China is a Communist country so if the Chinese government decides that E-Cat power plants are a way out of a real economic and environmental/health crisis it will happen. Even if China is the only country on earth where E-Cats get built and deployed it will have huge benefits for the rest of us.

  • Donk970

    The China connection is the most important by far. China is a Communist country so if the Chinese government decides that E-Cat power plants are a way out of a real economic and environmental/health crisis it will happen. Even if China is the only country on earth where E-Cats get built and deployed it will have huge benefits for the rest of us.

    • Udi

      China is no longer a Communist country.
      It has a blend of Dictatorship and Capitalism. There is a lot of private enterprise and many self made millionaires and even billionaires running around, but the government controls the economy and the media with strict rules and regulations.

      As for the E-Cat falling into Chinese hands, the main issue will be the IP rights, as China does not protect these rights, and will copy the technology without giving those right a second thought.

      • wallypalo

        My understanding is that all substantial business done in China has a beneficial and necessary connection to the ruling class (Communist Party members). It would be difficult to term this “Capitalism” unless also adding the word “Crony” just before it. And, yes, I would hope that Engr Rossi would not be so naive as to trust any Chinese business with his invention.

  • LCD

    Sorry if repeated. The first thing that jumps out at me is that if “the rights were bought” for 11 million and there is no indication all 11 million was paid to Rossi since it probably includes operational costs. Then it’s really not a lot for what the technology claims to do.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      They raised 11M to get Industrial Heat LLC going, but maybe the arrangement is such that Rossi owns some part of its shares.

      • Fortyniner

        Almost certainly the case I would think, although he would probably have wanted some ‘up front’ payment in order to recover the assets (including his home) that he appears to have used as collateral during e-cat development. Perhaps he was paid his $1.5 million ‘retail price’ for the prototype 1MW unit as part of the deal.

    • Omega Z

      This funding has taken place months after Rossi closed his deal.
      This Funding is for Industrial Heat LLC.
      Separate From Rossi.

  • LCD

    Sorry if repeated. The first thing that jumps out at me is that if “the rights were bought” for 11 million and there is no indication all 11 million was paid to Rossi since it probably includes operational costs. Then it’s really not a lot for what the technology claims to do.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      They raised 11M to get Industrial Heat LLC going, but maybe the arrangement is such that Rossi owns some part of its shares.

      • Almost certainly the case I would think, although he would probably have wanted some ‘up front’ payment in order to recover the assets (including his home) that he appears to have used as collateral during e-cat development. Perhaps he was paid his $1.5 million ‘retail price’ for the prototype 1MW unit as part of the deal, plus some agreed amount for the other prototypes that were shipped.

    • Omega Z

      This funding has taken place months after Rossi closed his deal.
      This Funding is for Industrial Heat LLC.
      Separate From Rossi.

  • HarryD

    Could it be that they are the Chinese licensees instead of Rossi’s partner?

  • HarryD

    Could it be that they are the Chinese licensees instead of Rossi’s partner?

  • Julian Becker

    Well if this turns out to be true it would be amazing. The SASAC (State-owned Assets Supervision and Assets Commission) is directly answering to the State Council of the Peoples Republic of China (the Chinese cabinett of ministers), whose Chairman is Prime Minister Li Keqiang. As it said in the article: Their Chairman took part in the meeting. The same applies for the National Development and Reform Commission also their leadership seemed present. This body is in charge for the macro economic planning of the entire Chinese ecomomy.

    The place of meeting was the Diaoyutai State Guest House in Beijing a place for foreign dignitaries and local officials to stay,

    If the meeting was positive and a report was filed upwards, Prime Minister Li and President Xi should be aware of LENR now.

    Sources:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaoyutai_State_Guesthouse
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Development_and_Reform_Commission
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_Assets_Supervision_and_Administration_Commission

    • Frank Acland

      Hi Julian, thanks so much for this. Just to be clear — this information you cited above came from the icebank article — http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=113 ?

      • Julian Becker

        My Chinese is far from perfect, but they mention those institutions and the place where they met. The rest i researched on wikipedia

        • Julian Becker

          I am currently outside China, but flying back in a few hours. Once I am back, I can ask some people who will understand it 100 %, the institutions are clearly stated in the first paragraph of the article.

    • Guest

      Julian, thank you for taking the time and using your translation skills . . . . “amazing” sounds just about right.

  • ecatworld

    Hi Julian, thanks so much for this. Just to be clear — this information you cited above came from the icebank article — http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=113 ?

    • Julian Becker

      My Chinese is far from perfect, but they mention those institutions and the place where they met. The rest i researched on wikipedia

      • Julian Becker

        I am currently outside China, but flying back in a few hours. Once I am back, I can ask some people who will understand it 100 %, the institutions are clearly stated in the first paragraph of the article.

      • mytakeis

        Above ground electric lines, and coal burning plants in the USA, as opposed to underground electric lines in Europe, and E-Cats in China! American slowness to change again asserts itself. We are spending so much on the wrong renewable sources, while the rest of the world is moving ahead with the new energy innovations. A Congress and Administration more interested in listening to what people are saying than their well being results in stagnation. Maybe Walmart will be the first E-Cat distributor with, “Made in China” logos on the products.

  • Curbina

    Guys, it seems that LENR keeps gaining momentum, but when you see that there was an official invitation to present LENR research projects (of course among others) by no other than ARPA-E, you get definitely a tickle in the brain. http://news.newenergytimes.net/2014/01/03/u-s-department-of-energy-invites-submission-of-lenr-proposals/

    This happened back in September, BTW.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah, I’d say they’re about a quarter of a century too late.

  • Curbina

    Guys, it seems that LENR keeps gaining momentum, but when you see that there was an official invitation to present LENR research projects (of course among others) by no other than ARPA-E, you get definitely a tickle in the brain. http://news.newenergytimes.net/2014/01/03/u-s-department-of-energy-invites-submission-of-lenr-proposals/

    This happened back in September, BTW.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Yeah, I’d say they’re about a quarter of a century too late.

  • Buck

    Julian, thank you for taking the time and using your translation skills . . . . amazing sounds just about right.

  • Aus

    “If the meeting was positive and a report was filed upwards, Prime Minister Li and President Xi should be aware of LENR now. ”
    Is Tony Abbott aware of LENR? Nah he is not….
    Watchout those Coal + Coal seam gas projects for Chinese market.

  • HS61AF91

    Above ground electric lines, and coal burning plants in the USA, as opposed to underground electric lines in Europe, and E-Cats in China! American slowness to change again asserts itself. We are spending so much on the wrong renewable sources, while the rest of the world is moving ahead with the new energy innovations. A Congress and Administration more interested in listening to what people are saying than their well being results in stagnation. Maybe Walmart will be the first E-Cat distributor with, “Made in China” logos on the products.

  • Buck

    I would be surprised if they didn’t put up some sort of fight.

    IMO, a question the leadership will have to answer is whether they want to be left behind by choosing Fossil Fuels over LENR. At this point, the Chinese leadership is choosing to become more assertive militarily, adding a competitive dimension to the question.

    Do they want the US, S. Korea, Japan, etc to have LENR, leaving their own country behind?

    It is my hope that all countries will recognize the benefits of moving to LENR and not being left behind.

  • Buck

    Udi, one thing is certain . . . something good appears to have happened when Rossi and Cherokee became partners.

  • GreenWin

    Curious again. Why would Dr. Rossi sell his $5B proprietary trade
    secret to Thomas Darden, Chief Exec Officer of Cherokee Investment
    Partners? “A Raleigh company that specializes in cleaning
    contaminated land before flipping it to developers, Cherokee is EnCap’s
    majority investor.”

    Mr. Darden’s expertise is in real
    estate development. Did the doc suggest one of his cats was
    successfully built by partner’s CEO? Odd?

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/environment/specialreports/Encaps_parent_firm_We_.html

    • wapiti22

      I don’t understand $5B trade ? I don’t see the link with Rossi on this acticle

  • GreenWin

    Curious again. Why would Dr. Rossi sell his $5B proprietary trade
    secret to Thomas Darden, Chief Exec Officer of Cherokee Investment
    Partners? “A Raleigh company that specializes in cleaning
    contaminated land before flipping it to developers, Cherokee is EnCap’s
    majority investor.”

    Mr. Darden’s expertise is in real
    estate development. Did the doc suggest one of his cats was
    successfully built by partner’s CEO? Odd?

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/environment/specialreports/Encaps_parent_firm_We_.html

    • wapiti22

      I don’t understand $5B trade ? I don’t see the link with Rossi on this acticle