Strong Confirmation of Cherokee's Backing of the E-Cat — From China

Some great sleuthing by E-Cat World reader ‘Mr. Moho’ has turned up more information about the Cherokee Investment Partnership involvement with the E-Cat. An article on a Chinese site called Icebank.cn, (apparently a refrigeration company) provides more information about Cherokee Investment Partners CEO Thomas Darden’s recent visit to China in connection with his involvement with the newly formed company Industrial Heat LLC.

It must be noted that the information gleaned has come from a Google translation of the article, and so some of the quotes and details may be a little confusing, but I think the general gist of the story is quite clear.

The meeting was apparently held for Cherokee CEO (and Industrial Heat Chairman) Tom Darden to report to Chinese officials and business personnel about the E-Cat. The article says that he met with “the president of the National Academy of planning a low-carbon energy” — who would have to be a government official. From the article it appears that Mr. Darden reported on test results:

Tests also showed that the nickel energy generation has very good prospects in addition to the economic costs, in the field of environmental protection also has a unique huge advantage. Nickel reaction process, there will be no emissions of greenhouse gases and other pollutants, will not produce radioactive material, but also do not need coal or oil and other fossil fuels . . .

Mr. Thomas’s [Darden’s] team in the field of power generation reaction of nickel has many years of experience, both sides in respect of technical co-operation in the Chinese market application is fully in line with our industry-oriented and advantages, can unleash America’s most sophisticated technological advantage, hoping the two sides ordered the pace of cooperation and achieve mutual benefit and win-win.

(emphasis added)

We have been looking at a possible Cherokee-E-Cat connection over the last couple of days here, and this latest information leaves very little doubt that Cherokee Investment Partners is the American ‘Partner’ that Rossi has been talking about for so long, and that they have now set up a new entity — Industrial Heat LLC — as some kind of vehicle for developing the E-Cat technology. It seems clear now that Cherokee has witnessed testing and is confident enough to start a marketing and fundraising push.

On a broader scale, this outreach to China is a very interesting development. Cherokee has long worked in China, so Mr. Darden has plenty of connections there. It would seem China’s command economy, if the government really gets on board with the E-Cat, would be able to diffuse the technology much faster than in many western countries where there are many competing interests and lobbies, with many legal, regulatory and economic barriers to something so radically new as the E-Cat. In China, if those in power want something to happen, they usually find a way to make it happen. If China does lead the way, it will be interesting to see how the rest of the world would respond — who would want to be left in the dust, if China turns to a clean, green, and superior energy source?

Yesterday I think the evidence for Cherokee’s involvement with the E-Cat was convincing — today it is much stronger. The E-Cat has a company with influence and experience to help bring it to the world. A perusal of Cherokee’s web site provides lots of interesting information about their connections and influence. In particular Tom Darden is very close to American designer Bill McDonough who has prolific portfolio working with major companies and countries. He may be an important ally for Cherokee in promoting the E-Cat and helping to break down institutional barriers.

I wonder when we will hear from Cherokee Investment Partners directly about their plans. So far they have been publicly silent about their involvement, and they may feel it is in their best interest to remain that way.

  • Barry

    Great sleuthing all, by the way Happy New Year. 2014 is looking up.

  • Barry

    Great sleuthing all, by the way Happy New Year. 2014 is looking up.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Great job, Frank & Mr Moho. While I’m leery of China, it’s certainly the country that most needs clean energy.

    • malkom700

      It is a very serious situation, as far as china Institute of Technology first, can gain enormous advantage in global competition.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        The US was beginning to get a leg up on the Chinese because of our cheaper energy costs. Once the eCat is adapted worldwide, the playing field will be more level. Asia will continue to have the advantage in labor costs. eCat powered freighters will largely negate shipping costs. The US will benefit from ultra-cheap natural gas and petroleum for chemical feedstock.

        Bottom line: Asia will dominate most manufacturing except for chemical production.

        • LCD

          China’s human rights issues will lead to some type of disruptive internal revolution before they can make a run a the U.S.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Great job, Frank & Mr Moho. While I’m leery of China, it’s certainly the country that most needs clean energy.

    • malkom700

      It is a very serious situation, as far as china Institute of Technology first, can gain enormous advantage in global competition.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        The US was beginning to get a leg up on the Chinese because of our cheaper energy costs. Once the eCat is adapted worldwide, the playing field will be more level. Asia will continue to have the advantage in labor costs. eCat powered freighters will largely negate shipping costs. The US will benefit from ultra-cheap natural gas and petroleum for chemical feedstock.

        Bottom line: Asia will dominate most manufacturing except for chemical production.

        • LCD

          China’s human rights issues will lead to some type of disruptive internal revolution before they can make a run a the U.S.

  • rolando

    OMFG!!!
    how do I buy their shares?

    • JDM

      That may be a good topic for another thread. How to invest in the coming transition. Forget about Cherokee, Industrial heat, Leonardo…those cannot be had. But shares in owners of currently coal-fired plants can be bought. Morton Salt uses coal to crystallize salt in New York (K+S Group) for example. Those would likely benefit from LENR. Powdered metal manufacturers need a constant heat source (Hoganas?), How about shorting rail companies currently hauling coal and oil? Certainly a lot to think about for a little guy to make a few extra bux.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Right, it is a disrupting new invention, so disrupting that “the powers that be” are trying to keep a lid on it.

        • bachcole

          And you know this how? And the natural American fear of looking stupid does not count.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Frank, am I missing something, I don’t see any difference between Cherokee and Rossi’s distributing contracts with Swedish and Canadian companies? Why do you think they own and are financing the research and development of the Rossi tech?

    • blanco69

      Agreed. The presence of Cherokee in a significant role seriously detracts from Rossi’s story about a huge multinational partner with all technical resources at their disposal. Rossi has, in the past, been particular about telling us that the big partner has everything he needs. The presence of investment middle men doesn’t help that scenario at all.

    • bachcole

      Those distribution contracts were with companies that were created out of whole cloth, which is not necessarily a bad thing, except that our excitement is not about distribution. It is about confirmation. The Chinese company is established and has the blessing of at least some elements within the Chinese government. Mr. Moho’s finding that company confirms both Cherokee and the Chinese company as being E-Cat supporters.

      Although us followers of the E-Cat already knew that the E-Cat was for real (2013 Levi, et. al), it will be MUCH more difficult for people to go on denying the E-Cat if two real and established for profit companies are on board.

      I also think that Cherokee looks like they are experts at bringing investors together; they look very nimble to me.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I am interested in who owns the Rossi tech. Cherokee looks more like a Wall Street deal maker.

    • ecatworld

      The big difference, imo, is that the various licensees were licensees of Leonardo Corp. who owned the IP until Rossi sold. If the the IP is now owned by Cherokee (which I believe it is), then they have commercial control of the technology. I’m not sure what position that puts the old licensees in.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Frank, am I missing something, I don’t see any difference between Cherokee and Rossi’s distributing contracts with Swedish, Canadian and Italian companies? Why do you think they own and are financing the research and development of the Rossi tech?

    • blanco69

      Agreed. The presence of Cherokee in a significant role seriously detracts from Rossi’s story about a huge multinational partner with all technical resources at their disposal. Rossi has, in the past, been particular about telling us that the big partner has everything he needs. The presence of investment middle men doesn’t help that scenario at all.

    • bachcole

      Those distribution contracts were with companies that were created out of whole cloth, which is not necessarily a bad thing, except that our excitement is not about distribution. It is about confirmation. The Chinese company is established and has the blessing of at least some elements within the Chinese government. Mr. Moho’s finding that company confirms both Cherokee and the Chinese company as being E-Cat supporters.

      Although us followers of the E-Cat already knew that the E-Cat was for real (2013 Levi, et. al), it will be MUCH more difficult for people to go on denying the E-Cat if two real and established for profit companies are on board.

      I also think that Cherokee looks like they are experts at bringing investors together; they look very nimble to me.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I am interested in who owns the Rossi tech. Cherokee looks more like a Wall Street deal maker.

    • Frank Acland

      The big difference, imo, is that the various licensees were licensees of Leonardo Corp. who owned the IP until Rossi sold. If the the IP is now owned by Cherokee (which I believe it is), then they have commercial control of the technology. I’m not sure what position that puts the old licensees in.

  • maozhijie

    I just check the icebank website, it is company affiliated in China http://www.cest.org.cn,,

  • LuFong

    Despite the China connection, don’t forget that Rossi has stated that he delivered to Cherokee (as we now know) a 1 MW plant and that Cherokee has installed the plant in a location in the US. Visits by selected people are also on order. Furthermore we also know from Rossi that Cherokee has built a E-Cat factory (“a magnificence”) where a lot of his development, manufacturing, and testing is ongoing.

    The China effort appears to be a marketing one at this time but here in the US there are real E-Cats in manufacture and operation that Rossi has promised to disclose over a year ago. In my mind the US effort is the low-hanging fruit especially now that we know about Cherokee.

  • Omega Z

    CHEROKEE may just be another cog in the wheel & not the actual partner.
    Fulvio Fabiani may have just been consulting them on a specific product.

    We all know NASA put men on the moon.
    But it was in Reality Hundreds of Corporations & Businesses working together who really made it happen.

    This is but 1 arrangement of what will become 1000’s.
    Transitioning to LENR is a Much Bigger Task then putting a man on the moon And way to big for any one Corporation. It will involve many.

  • Omega Z

    CHEROKEE may just be another cog in the wheel & not the actual partner.
    Fulvio Fabiani may have just been consulting them on a specific product.

    We all know NASA put men on the moon.
    But it was in Reality Hundreds of Corporations & Businesses working together who really made it happen.

    This is but 1 arrangement of what will become 1000’s.
    Transitioning to LENR is a Much Bigger Task then putting a man on the moon And way to big for any one Corporation. It will involve many.

    • freethinker

      I agree.

      For all the excitement we may feel, I do think the hidden door has been found, but we are just standing in the hallway of a large building.

      I think Cherokee are facilitators (money, connections, legal advice) utilized by a way larger entity (or even entities) with the rapid response capability R&D wise within the field of energy (as mentioned by Rossi).

      The backroom door will likely remain hidden a while longer.

  • AmReporter

    The idea that China is going to get its hands on an E-Cat – probably ahead of the rest of us, since I saw nothing to indicate Darden is briefing other nations’ companies – makes me very unhappy. The demand there could quickly outpace the entire production for several years at least, effectively denying the advantage of low-cost electricity to their American competitors, and the technological breakthroughs than come from the E-Cat will be fostered there and delayed here by that. This is not good news!

    • SiriusMan

      Yes, I imagine that will make a lot of people unhappy. Perhaps it is almost the time for Americans to ask their leaders why they have totally squandered their 25 year head-start in the LENR race.

      • malkom700

        In a functioning society, we should develop the technology before 1995.

    • Warthog

      Sure it’s good news. Not as good as if it were a US company. But do you honestly think that if the China connection is confirmed and a commercial product ensues that both the US government and US companies won’t begin a massive effort to catch up and produce a superior alternative???

      There are alternatives to the E-cat approach, and likely to be superior.

    • Mop

      It’s good news. The pollution in China seems terrible. I feel businesses in China should steal as much as possible about this, ignoring IP rights. Battling through the courts for money can still be done afterwards.

      In a round-about way, you still get its benefits just as early because a lot of things you consume are produced in China.

      Chinese businesses might also be the best in ramping up production to the levels you’re dreaming of, enabling everyone to get a reactor faster.

    • Daniel Maris

      It makes me unhappy in one sense as well – I’m unhappy the UK has played no role in all this. I’m unhappy Rossi had to leave Europe and go to the USA to take this forward. I’m unhappy China appears to be taking the lead, but on the other hand, one has to think about the millions of Chinese children who will saved from ill health if this goes through.

      • Fortyniner

        Cameron and his associates will continue to push his ‘new nukes’ project well past the point of rationality (actually, I think that point was reached some time ago). Right now there seems to be something of a rush from Asia to get in on the nuclear bonanza Cameron is creating in the UK (up to 47 un-announced new nuclear power stations on top of those already announced, apparently).

        http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2530417/Ofgem-wont-investigate-China-nuclear-power-stations-deal.html

        http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/26/toshiba-stake-uk-nuclear-consortium

        It seems that any new developments in CF are not yet reaching the ‘decision makers’ – or the rush is on to get contracts in place before anything can upset the fission applecart.

        • Daniel Maris

          Who knows what is really going on! But yes, Cameron’s promotion of nuclear seems beyond rationality. If it was about cost and reliability we could go for gas. But equally we could follow Germany in going green – and Germany is Europe largest manufacturer and exporter.

      • Marc Ellenbroek

        I think this is very good news. When the LENR technology is also brought to China, the ‘Big Capital’ with all its influences cannot hold back the introduction of LENR, which is my greatest fear. The only thing that the ‘Big Capital’ can do is co-operate and support LENR, otherwise they loose the lead and their mighty influence in the World .

      • bachcole

        Not to worry. EVERYONE, except perhaps modern luddites, will be getting on this train. It is simply a matter of time before the Camerons of this world will be caught like teenage boys short stroking in the bathroom by their severely puritanical mothers.

  • AmReporter

    The idea that China is going to get its hands on an E-Cat – probably ahead of the rest of us, since I saw nothing to indicate Darden is briefing other nations’ companies – makes me very unhappy. The demand there could quickly outpace the entire production for several years at least, effectively denying the advantage of low-cost electricity to their American competitors, and the technological breakthroughs than come from the E-Cat will be fostered there and delayed here by that. This is not good news!

    • SiriusMan

      Yes, I imagine that will make a lot of people unhappy. Perhaps it is almost the time for Americans to ask their leaders why they have totally squandered their 25 year head-start in the LENR race.

      • malkom700

        In a functioning society, we should develop the technology before 1995.

    • Warthog

      Sure it’s good news. Not as good as if it were a US company. But do you honestly think that if the China connection is confirmed and a commercial product ensues that both the US government and US companies won’t begin a massive effort to catch up and produce a superior alternative???

      There are alternatives to the E-cat approach, and likely to be superior.

    • Mop

      It’s good news. The pollution in China seems terrible. I feel businesses in China should steal as much as possible about this, ignoring IP rights. Battling through the courts for money can still be done afterwards.

      In a round-about way, you still get its benefits just as early because a lot of things you consume are produced in China.

      Chinese businesses might also be the best in ramping up production to the levels you’re dreaming of, enabling everyone to get a reactor faster.

  • Mr. Moho

    From recent comments on the Cobra forum it looks like Industrial Heat LLC might be an even more serious effort than we previously thought. Investor Daniel Pike is also the CEO of the asian branch of Cosmederm Bioscience Inc, a subsidiary of Evofem LLC, a cosmetics and biotech company. His father Joseph Pike is the CEO of the company. And guess what? Cherokee funder Thomas Darden is also listed in the board of directors of Evofem LLC. These companies are all related each other, and there might be more than meets the eye! Apparently there still are 12 yet unnamed Industrial Heat LLC investors which might be related in a way or another to Cherokee Investment Fund and/or Thomas Darden.

    http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747

    A guy posted a new spider diagram with all currently known connections, which I imgur’d in case it disappears like last time (sorry pal, there wasn’t need to, I believe):

    http://i.imgur.com/dy7Z5Om.png

    Although I understand that since this seems to be a work in progress he might want to have some control on how it get released.

    • artefact

      That picture now works for me, thanks

    • Daniel Maris

      Great spider diagram! That’s really helpful in bringing it all together.

      What about Elforsk and the Uppsala crowd – do they not have some place in all this through testing?

      • Mr. Moho

        I feel this was intended to be a diagram of direct and indirect business relationships.

        • Daniel Maris

          Fair enough. 🙂

        • Buck

          Mr. Moho,

          I suggest that Elforsk, the R&D entity for Scandinavian energy firms, should be included due to their funding of the past and current tests of the E-Cat. The relevance is highlighted by Elforsk’s largest client, Vattenfall, a $22B Swedish firm with operations in Scandinavia and Europe.

          IMO, there is no question that with the development of a viable industrial Hot-Cat, Vattenfall will quickly capitalize on the opportunity LENR presents with the retrofitting of selected power plants.

          • Daniel Maris

            I take it back – we should include Elforsk!

          • Doktor Bob

            Lots of Chinese investments in Sweden during 2013 for example Electric Cars and Sterling Engines. Vattenfall for example wrote down their value during 2013 with 4 billion euros.The investments they did in Europe that looked good 2 or 3 years ago now looks worthless. Swedish tax payers can understand how a company for no particular explained reason can loose so much value in so little time. Vattenfall points out to changes in the energy market and continues to explain they will have to write it down further because the market have changed and its nothing short turned.

            I wonder if other energy companies follow their lead or continues as is.

            I believe we will see a bubble where energy companies will try to dump their assets on either tax payers or other less informed entities that things they are make a good deal buying up this oil fields, coal plants, hydro plants or whatever it might be.

            ***I am not in any way an expert

      • bachcole

        Yes for Elforsk. But for the sake of clarity and space considerations, Elforsk et. al. could be put on a second page. Otherwise the one page will get too crowded.

    • bachcole

      Now I have a great way to keep track of the players without my eyes glazing over. Excellent!

  • LENR G

    I updated “Are LENR Devices Real?” with this new information about Cherokee and Industrial Heat.

    lenrftw.net

    Reproduced here to save you the click.

    Business – Rossi/Leonardo Corp/Cherokee Fund/Industrial Heat LLC

    Eventually Rossi concluded that his go it alone approach was no longer practical and it was time to make a move. When he reached the point where he had working prototypes potentially suitable for commercialization, he looked for an industrial partner for Leonardo Corp. that could help finalize and manufacture his E-Cats. In October 2012 he apparently made a deal with the environmentally-minded Cherokee Fund of North Carolina to finance a new entity named Industrial Heat LLC. Rossi is believed to have provided a working prototype 1 MW plant in the Spring of 2013 to this new entity and since that time Cherokee has been able to raise more than $11M for Industrial Heat. Strong confirmation of this arrangement emerged in January 2014 with reports out of China of E-Cat related marketing efforts by Cherokee.

    Neither Cherokee nor Industrial Heat has publicly confirmed this partnership with Rossi yet — they presumably wish to remain under the radar until the moment of their choosing. Moreover the identities of the investors in Industrial Heat are not yet known and neither are the parameters of Cherokee’s initial deal with Leonardo Corp. Important details like whether Industrial Heat is backed by larger companies (like nearby Siemens?) or just Angel investors are also unknown. It’s possible that Cherokee and Industrial heat have more of a licensing arrangement than a primary support relationship with Rossi and that Rossi’s main partner remains cloaked. It appears that Industrial Heat is now the primary vehicle for continued E-Cat R&D and is employing teams of scientific and engineering specialists. It’s not immediately clear where these people came from, whether they were hired directly or are being provided by another entity. Still, the details and timeline that are emerging about the Cherokee connection fit our expectations of what Rossi’s partner would be like a glove. Here’s what we thought we knew about the partner based on Rossi’s communications before the relationship with Cherokee came to light:

    U.S.-based (check)

    Has enough manufacturing capacity to produce as many E-Cats as demand warrants (half check; ample dollars and connections with manufacturers)

    Has a large presence in China (check; Cherokee has already started targeted marketing there)

    Now owns or shares the IP of the E-Cats after validating it for themselves and compensating Rossi’s company, Leonardo Corp. accordingly (presumed true, details unknown)

    Shares Rossi’s strategy of rapidly spreading the technology far and wide versus milking it for every last penny or burying it; he trusts them (check)

    Now employs Rossi as “Chief Scientist”, who is mostly removed from the business decisions (unconfirmed)

    Received deliveries of a working 1 MW E-Cat plant plus prototypes of the newer Hot-Cat generation of devices on April 30, 2013 (unconfirmed but circumstantial support)

    When LENR+ and a future of abundant energy finally makes it onto your nightly news, it’ll be on the day that the primary partner (very possibly Industrial Heat/Cherokee) wants it to be and probably part of a big rollout, complete with press conference, working plant open to the media for tours, a full PR blitz and maybe even the President and/or other heads of state involved, because it would be, you know, kind of a big deal to solve the world’s energy problems. But the clock is ticking now that verifiable details are starting to leak out It would not be a huge surprise if it happened soon and Rossi has indicated that preparations with the partner for the rollout have been underway for quite some time.

    Plus, it’s a simple point, but one worth stating directly: the Cherokee Fund has invested directly in Rossi’s company and technology, now presumably owns the IP, and has created a new business to commercialize it for which it has raised millions of dollars. You can be very sure that they did not undertake these activities it without carefully verifying that the technology is real. Quite simply, this is definitive confirmation that E-Cats and LENR+ are almost certainly real. The only caveat at this point is that Cherokee and Industrial Heat have not made any public statements to that effect, but their financial activities and marketing efforts are a matter of public record.

    Point: Seriously? Millions of dollars are changing hands, marketing efforts are underway and all of Rossi’s communications about finding the ideal partner have been validated. This constitutes nearly incontrovertible evidence that the technology is real.

    Counterpoint: Current evidence of a partnership beyond Rossi’s assertions is circumstantial. Cherokee and the Industrial Heat company they created are just more licensees of a non-existent technology and have been duped by Rossi. Why don’t these companies say anything publicly about this supposed game-changing technology?

    • Daniel Maris

      Good update!

      Re the Counterpoint at the end, I guess that Darden has said something publicly about it, but it just happens to be he has said it in China!

  • I updated “Are LENR Devices Real?” with this new information about Cherokee and Industrial Heat.

    lenrftw.net

    Reproduced here to save you the click.

    Business – Rossi/Leonardo Corp/Cherokee Fund/Industrial Heat LLC

    Eventually Rossi concluded that his go it alone approach was no longer practical and it was time to make a move. When he reached the point where he had working prototypes potentially suitable for commercialization, he looked for an industrial partner for Leonardo Corp. that could help finalize and manufacture his E-Cats. In October 2012 he apparently made a deal with the environmentally-minded Cherokee Fund of North Carolina to finance a new entity named Industrial Heat LLC. Rossi is believed to have provided a working prototype 1 MW plant in the Spring of 2013 to this new entity and since that time Cherokee has been able to raise more than $11M for Industrial Heat. Strong confirmation of this arrangement emerged in January 2014 with reports out of China of E-Cat related marketing efforts by Cherokee.

    Neither Cherokee nor Industrial Heat has publicly confirmed this partnership with Rossi yet — they presumably wish to remain under the radar until the moment of their choosing. Moreover the identities of the investors in Industrial Heat are not yet known and neither are the parameters of Cherokee’s initial deal with Leonardo Corp. Important details like whether Industrial Heat is backed by larger companies (like nearby Siemens?) or just Angel investors are also unknown. It’s possible that Cherokee and Industrial heat have more of a licensing arrangement than a primary support relationship with Rossi and that Rossi’s main partner remains cloaked. It appears that Industrial Heat is now the primary vehicle for continued E-Cat R&D and is employing teams of scientific and engineering specialists. It’s not immediately clear where these people came from, whether they were hired directly or are being provided by another entity. Still, the details and timeline that are emerging about the Cherokee connection fit our expectations of what Rossi’s partner would be like a glove. Here’s what we thought we knew about the partner based on Rossi’s communications before the relationship with Cherokee came to light:

    U.S.-based (check)

    Has enough manufacturing capacity to produce as many E-Cats as demand warrants (half check; ample dollars and connections with manufacturers)

    Has a large presence in China (check; Cherokee has already started targeted marketing there)

    Now owns or shares the IP of the E-Cats after validating it for themselves and compensating Rossi’s company, Leonardo Corp. accordingly (presumed true, details unknown)

    Shares Rossi’s strategy of rapidly spreading the technology far and wide versus milking it for every last penny or burying it; he trusts them (check)

    Now employs Rossi as “Chief Scientist”, who is mostly removed from the business decisions (unconfirmed)

    Received deliveries of a working 1 MW E-Cat plant plus prototypes of the newer Hot-Cat generation of devices on April 30, 2013 (unconfirmed but circumstantial support)

    When LENR+ and a future of abundant energy finally makes it onto your nightly news, it’ll be on the day that the primary partner (very possibly Industrial Heat/Cherokee) wants it to be and probably part of a big rollout, complete with press conference, working plant open to the media for tours, a full PR blitz and maybe even the President and/or other heads of state involved, because it would be, you know, kind of a big deal to solve the world’s energy problems. But the clock is ticking now that verifiable details are starting to leak out It would not be a huge surprise if it happened soon and Rossi has indicated that preparations with the partner for the rollout have been underway for quite some time.

    Plus, it’s a simple point, but one worth stating directly: the Cherokee Fund has invested directly in Rossi’s company and technology, now presumably owns the IP, and has created a new business to commercialize it for which it has raised millions of dollars. You can be very sure that they did not undertake these activities it without carefully verifying that the technology is real. Quite simply, this is definitive confirmation that E-Cats and LENR+ are almost certainly real. The only caveat at this point is that Cherokee and Industrial Heat have not made any public statements to that effect, but their financial activities and marketing efforts are a matter of public record.

    Point: Seriously? Millions of dollars are changing hands, marketing efforts are underway and all of Rossi’s communications about finding the ideal partner have been validated. This constitutes nearly incontrovertible evidence that the technology is real.

    Counterpoint: Current evidence of a partnership beyond Rossi’s assertions is circumstantial. Cherokee and the Industrial Heat company they created are just more licensees of a non-existent technology and have been duped by Rossi. Why don’t these companies say anything publicly about this supposed game-changing technology?

  • JDM

    That may be a good topic for another thread. How to invest in the coming transition. Forget about Cherokee, Industrial heat, Leonardo…those cannot be had. But shares in owners of currently coal-fired plants can be bought. Morton Salt uses coal to crystallize salt in New York (K+S Group) for example. Those would likely benefit from LENR. Powdered metal manufacturers need a constant heat source (Hoganas?), How about shorting rail companies currently hauling coal and oil? Certainly a lot to think about for a little guy to make a few extra bux.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Right, it is a disrupting new invention, so disrupting that “the powers that be” are trying to keep a lid on it.

      • bachcole

        And you know this how? And the natural American fear of looking stupid does not count.

  • LENR G

    Rossi got awfully quiet all of sudden. LOL.

    • Mr. Moho

      I was wondering the same thing! Haha

      • artefact

        They maybe conduct a strategy meeting…

        • Daniel Maris

          Yep, in this context silence and a refusal to comment amount to confirmation!

          • cx

            I really hope this revelation does not causes problems. But it was really sloppy that guy put industrial heat on his linkin profile.

          • Daniel Maris

            I can’t see why it will create problems. Companies are pathological about secrecy all the time. 99% of the time it’s not required. Darden has been in China talking openly about nickel energy. It’s his fault as much as anyone else!

    • ecatworld

      I am sure he is spamming all comments asking about the partner.

  • Rossi got awfully quiet all of sudden. LOL.

    • Frank Acland

      I am sure he is spamming all comments asking about the partner.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I am interested in who owns the Rossi tech. Cherokee looks more like a Wall Street deal maker. I cannot imagine Cherokee giving Rossi the technical help he said he is getting from his new partner.

    • Daniel Maris

      Surely expertise can be bought in? If you gave me $10 million I am sure I could rustle together a good team from a variety of sources – people experienced in calometrics, metallurgy, manufacture design, computer control systems, physics and so on.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I don’t think so, that would be a very tough job putting that kind of high tech team together.

        • Daniel Maris

          Really? Let’s at least accept Rossi has a working machine. We are talking about turning that into a product that can be manufactured and operate in a reliable way.

          As far as I know there are experts in all these fields who hire themselves.

    • BroKeeper

      Agreed, and any instrument or device requested provided quicky as Rossi mentioned. Unless its a bundle of money as an initial heat source. 🙂

      • Fortyniner

        My wife insists on running an Aga cooker 24/7. That burns money even faster than cold fusion research.

        • ecatworld

          lol, Peter — my parents have one and love it. Aga should do a deal with Rossi and co. and put an e-cat inside.

          • Fortyniner

            If only!

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I am interested in who owns the Rossi tech. Cherokee looks more like a Wall Street deal maker. I cannot imagine Cherokee giving Rossi the technical help he said he is getting from his new partner.

    • Brokeeper

      Agreed, and any instrument or device requested provided quicky as Rossi mentioned. Unless its a bundle of money as an initial heat source. 🙂

      • My wife insists on running an Aga cooker 24/7. That burns money even faster than cold fusion research.

        • Frank Acland

          lol, Peter — my parents have one and love it. Aga should do a deal with Rossi and co. and put an e-cat inside.

  • Marc Ellenbroek

    I think this is very good news. When the LENR technology is also brought to China, the ‘Big Capital’ with all its influences cannot hold back the introduction of LENR, which is my greatest fear. The only thing that the ‘Big Capital’ can do is co-operate and support LENR, otherwise they loose the lead and their mighty influence in the World .

  • Christopher Calder

    I like the term “nickel reaction process.” That is short and sweet and maybe better than *low energy nuclear reaction*.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Nickel Reaction Process of Industrial Heat is causing a Specific Modification of a Particular Planet 🙂

  • I like the term “nickel reaction process.” That is short and sweet and maybe better than *low energy nuclear reaction*.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Nickel Reaction Process of Industrial Heat is causing a Specific Modification of a Particular Planet 🙂

  • Karl

    Very good findings. I must admit I’m quite happy if the
    Chinese connection is true. The Chinese should have a lot to win to get first hands
    on this type of virtually unlimited and clean power source. The Chinese could solve
    their heavy dependency of coal. Imagine the advantage for them and the rest of
    the global community not least from an environmental perspective.

    Other and probably even more important factors are that it would
    be much more difficult for anyone to obstacle and delay a global roll out of any
    kind of these truly cheap, clean and virtually unlimited energy solutions. Thus,
    Rossi should be entirely dependent of western funds, it would be easier for the
    oil corporations (TPTB) to block this kind of disruptive energy solutions to
    hit the market.

    • bachcole

      Karl, I like your attitude. Some people are afraid that China will thrive. I guess that they are forgetting about the 1.3 billion people who are suffering either from poverty or smog. It does not help me any when my brother suffers and is poverty stricken. As China rises, they can buy more American goods. Everyone wins. And I won’t have to breath their pollution any more.

      • Private Citizen

        I would gladly sell China ECats to relieve their smog problem. But the only thing even remotely bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US is the cheaper cost of energy. Give the Chinese cheap energy and their pseudo-slave labor will just continue to drag down the rest of the world’s worker’s wages in the current race to the bottom.

        • Karl

          To me it looks like bribed politicians already helped major corporations to sell out most of the industrial know how from US and europe under the flag of globalisation.

        • bachcole

          As long as you are stridently individualistic (and stridently anti-socialistic), you and I are never going to agree. And I would say exactly the same thing to someone who is stridently socialistic (and stridently anti-individualistic). I am stridently balanced between the ends of that duality and will be until the day that I die.

          • Private Citizen

            Slaps labels on me: “stridently anti-socilistic?” If you call a draconian system of capitalism, condoning virtual slave labor (70% make less than $5 per day), suppression of free speech, ruled with an iron fist by a self-appointed oligarchy “socialism,” then yeah, I’m “anti-socilistic.” However Sweden or Denmark, yeah, that I can tolerate just fine.

          • bachcole

            So are you saying that socialism per se is not evil, just the Chinese version? And if you look at their history, where 10 million died (read: were murdered) building the so-called Great Wall, perhaps it is the culture and not the socialism. Russia’s first national leader was Ivan the Terrible. Starting off like that is bound to make ALL national leaders after be forced to be evil. Except for Gorby, every Russian leader has been a pot full of moral $hit. So why not the Chinese? They can use all of the contact with us that they can get, like the Internet, LENR+, etc.

            And I still think that we can work with them. How can it hurt? Do you think that keeping the Chinese poverty stricken is going to help get rid of the moral retards at the top? Don’t we have moral retards at the top. Our president is the biggest liar of the decade, the Liar-In-Chief, yet my neighbor is not a liar. I am honest to a fault.

  • Karl

    Very good findings. I must admit I’m quite happy if the
    Chinese connection is true. The Chinese should have a lot to win to get first hands
    on this type of virtually unlimited and clean power source. The Chinese could solve
    their heavy dependency of coal. Imagine the advantage for them and the rest of
    the global community not least from an environmental perspective.

    Other and probably even more important factors are that it would
    be much more difficult for anyone to obstacle and delay a global roll out of any
    kind of these truly cheap, clean and virtually unlimited energy solutions. Thus,
    Rossi should be entirely dependent of western funds, it would be easier for the
    oil corporations (TPTB) to block this kind of disruptive energy solutions to
    hit the market.

    • bachcole

      Karl, I like your attitude. Some people are afraid that China will thrive. I guess that they are forgetting about the 1.3 billion people who are suffering either from poverty or smog. It does not help me any when my brother suffers and is poverty stricken. As China rises, they can buy more American goods. Everyone wins. And I won’t have to breath their pollution any more.

      • Private Citizen

        I would gladly sell China ECats to relieve their smog problem. But the only thing even remotely bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US is the cheaper cost of energy. Give the Chinese cheap energy and their pseudo-slave labor will just continue to drag down the rest of the world’s worker’s wages in the current race to the bottom.

        • Karl

          To me it looks like bribed politicians already helped major corporations to sell out most of the industrial know how from US and europe under the flag of globalisation.

        • bachcole

          As long as you are stridently individualistic (and stridently anti-socialistic), you and I are never going to agree. And I would say exactly the same thing to someone who is stridently socialistic (and stridently anti-individualistic). I am stridently balanced between the ends of that duality and will be until the day that I die.

          • Private Citizen

            Slaps labels on me: “stridently anti-socilistic?” If you call a draconian system of capitalism, condoning virtual slave labor (70% make less than $5 per day), suppression of free speech, ruled with an iron fist by a self-appointed oligarchy “socialism,” then yeah, I’m “anti-socilistic.” However Sweden or Denmark, yeah, that I can tolerate just fine.

          • bachcole

            So are you saying that socialism per se is not evil, just the Chinese version? And if you look at their history, where 10 million died (read: were murdered) building the so-called Great Wall, perhaps it is the culture and not the socialism. Russia’s first national leader was Ivan the Terrible. Starting off like that is bound to make ALL national leaders after be forced to be evil. Except for Gorby, every Russian leader has been a pot full of moral $hit. So why not the Chinese? They can use all of the contact with us that they can get, like the Internet, LENR+, etc.

            And I still think that we can work with them. How can it hurt? Do you think that keeping the Chinese poverty stricken is going to help get rid of the moral retards at the top? Don’t we have moral retards at the top. Our president is the biggest liar of the decade, the Liar-In-Chief, yet my neighbor is not a liar. I am honest to a fault.

          • bkrharold

            “Our president is the biggest liar of the decade, the Liar-In-Chief”

            I was frankly baffled by your characterization of the USA as ‘Socialist” as if that were a dirty word. Now I get where you are coming from, all your previous comments make sense now.
            Just for the record our President is not a liar despite the efforts of the mainstream corporate controlled media to label him as such. He may well go down as one of the greatest Presidents in American History.

        • bkrharold

          At some point, Chinese workers will unite to fight for their rights for a fair living wage, and decent working conditions. The ruling class in China will never grant such a thing willingly, but eventually they will be forced to treat their fellow citizens with respect.
          Unlimited cheap energy will be a huge game changer, it will lead to more democratization than the introduction of the internet. Since then we have seen several tyrants and dictators fall. Nickel energy is within the reach of ordinary people, the ruling class in any country will have no ability to keep it from the people.

      • bkrharold

        Here in California we are too busy trying to dodge all that radiation from Fukishima

  • Private Citizen

    Sad to see this tech going to the Chi-commies. It was looking like the only hope of digging out of the debt-addicted downward spiral of the West, if we could get LENR first. Now the Chinese will just have an even greater industrial edge and drive us under.

    • Mr. Moho

      We only know two of the 14 Industrial Heat LLC investors and one of them has a presence in the USA as well. It’s not like Rossi is selling off his IP to China.

      • Daniel Maris

        Yes I wouldn’t overstate the China connection. It seems more important from a strategic point of view rather than the ownership.

        • bachcole

          I sort of agree. China is important in this context not because we expect them to do great things, but because they confirm LENR+ and will help convince other people of the reality of LENR+. If they help spread peace and prosperity, great. Otherwise, phuck ’em, as I am sure Private Citizen feels.

    • Thomas C

      Good that the ball gets rolling rather than sitting on it for a quarter of a century.

    • bachcole

      In a world of plenty, Marxism will seem more ridiculous than it already seems. Scratch a communist or a capitalist, and you will find a human being under that mental facade. I have no problem whatsoever with the Chinese Communist government is backing a Chinese capitalist effort to promote the E-Cat. LENR+ will greatly dampen all of this competition. For example, because I have a wide screen TV, the thought that I cannot afford tickets to the latest concert doesn’t bother me in the slightest; with regard to entertainment, I already live in the land of plenty.

      • Private Citizen

        Scratch a Nazi and you will find a human being under that mental facade? While true, that might not justify having sold critical strategic technologies to the fascist 3rd Reich.

        It’s not the Chinese people, it is their totalitarian, oppressive, cheating, ruthlessly capitalistic “communist” government you will empower.

        What you will get in plentiful abundance is their increased financial and military might.

        • bachcole

          Please, I am just as right wing as you are, but I did not include Nazi’s in my list because you need a shovel to “scratch” deep enough to find their humanity. I simply don’t see that the ChiComs are as evil as you say that they are. Not even close. All Communists mean well. No Nazi means well, other than a few Otto Schindlers. Communists are wrong headed; not wrong hearted. A wrong headed person can be redeemed, like the current head of the Chinese state is a fan of Marcus Aurelius. The wrong hearted person can only be redeemed by a bullet passed through their head in excess of the speed of sound.

          • Private Citizen

            Mao, still lionized in China, still depicted on the money, killed 40 million in direct democide, sent another 50 million to labor camps, and killed another 40 million via famine. But it’s okay, because he “meant well?” “Good hearted?”
            source:http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Mao

            Today, what you have is all the desperation to keep and hold power, all the paranoia of the oppressed masses, with only blind capitalist greed and compromise by globalist banksters as the ethical compass.

            Nature abhors a power vacuum. Do you really want China holding power? Not me. Wouldn’t live there if you paid me.

            “Marcus Aurelius?”

            New China Leadership Tightens Internet Tyranny

            And I certainly do not consider myself right or left wing: perhaps a bit of a green, isolationist, pacifist, rational libertarian–whatever wing that might be.

          • bachcole

            Blah, blah, blah, like we already don’t know what a monster Mao was. And we all know that dictatorships fall prey to this sort of evil. But tell me that Abraham Lincoln was not a dictator during the Civil War, yet very few will say that he was a monster. And we all know (but perhaps don’t recognize it) that anytime an ideologue gets into power there is going to be trouble. This includes libertarian ideologues, conservative ideologues, progressive ideologues. The Soviet and ChiCom ideologue were simply more blinded by their ideologies than most.
            Roger

            Subject: Re: New comment posted on Strong Confirmation of Cherokee’ s Backing of the E-Cat — From China

          • bachcole

            Like we already don’t know what a monster Mao was. I still wince when I see his phucking picture on the face of the palace of the Forbidden City. Whenever our family sees his picture on TV, I remind them that Mao was the worst mass murderer in the history of the world.

            And we all know that
            dictatorships fall prey to this sort of evil. But tell me that Abraham
            Lincoln was not a dictator during the Civil War, yet very few will say
            that he was a monster. And we all know (but perhaps don’t recognize it)
            that anytime an ideologue gets into power there is going to be
            trouble. This includes libertarian ideologues, conservative ideologues,
            progressive ideologues. The Soviet and ChiCom ideologues were simply
            more blinded by their ideologies than most.

            Try looking for the good occasionally and stop being such an ideologue. The Chinese people are doing much better, and they can help us and we can help them. Perhaps the revolutionary nature of LENR+ will flip enough lids so that they won’t feel that they need a nanny state on steroids.

            Roger

          • Private Citizen

            “stop being such an ideologue”

            More name calling? And suggesting people don’t hold to ideals? Bye-bye.

          • bachcole

            OMG, you are rejecting me! How could you be such a meanie head.

          • bitplayr

            Not clear how cheaper energy at any scale will overcome the human urge for status and dominance.

          • bachcole

            I agree 101%. And don’t forget lust, greed, anger, gluttony, envy, sloth, and a bunch of other human spiritual ailments. I have been preaching that here for years. As I have said over and over here and elsewhere, LENR+ will alleviate suffering caused by the non-fulfillment of needs, but it will aggravate the suffering caused by the fulfillment of wants. Happily the need or desire to make war will be lessened, but probably as you point out not zeroed. I expect Muslim Militants to run out of cash, but not fervor. US and Chinese and all other nations’ protection of oil transport lanes will disappear. Trade will flourish. Piracy in the Indian Ocean area will eventually decrease somewhat, so there will still be a great power presence there.

    • bkrharold

      “Now the Chinese will just have an even greater industrial edge and drive us under”

      It is not the Chinese who are dragging down the USA, it is our very own elected leaders. They have hollowed out our industrial base, and sent all of our manufacturing jobs overseas. They have ruined our education system, and destroyed the middle class. The Chinese are just picking over the carcass of the USA left by the 1%

  • Private Citizen

    Sad to see this tech going to the Chi-commies. It was looking like the only hope of digging out of the debt-addicted downward spiral of the West, if we could get LENR first. Now the Chinese will just have an even greater industrial edge and drive us under.

    Despite any efforts to keep the tech secret or proprietary, the Chinese will do what they always have done in such matters.

    • Thomas C

      Good that the ball gets rolling rather than sitting on it for a quarter of a century.

    • bachcole

      In a world of plenty, Marxism will seem more ridiculous than it already seems. Scratch a communist or a capitalist, and you will find a human being under that mental facade. I have no problem whatsoever with the Chinese Communist government is backing a Chinese capitalist effort to promote the E-Cat. LENR+ will greatly dampen all of this competition. For example, because I have a wide screen TV, the thought that I cannot afford tickets to the latest concert doesn’t bother me in the slightest; with regard to entertainment, I already live in the land of plenty.

      • Private Citizen

        bachcole: “Scratch a communist or a capitalist, and you will find a human being under that mental facade.”

        Scratch a Nazi and you will find a human being under that mental facade? While true, that might not justify having sold critical strategic technologies to the fascist 3rd Reich.

        Watch the documentary “Death by China” and see how Bill Clinton made similar arguments as you about how letting China into the WTO would result in American prosperity, greater domestic manufacturing, better standard of living.

        Many of us who cannot afford concert tickets also are finding food, energy, medicine, education, housing unfordable as well. Even widescreen TV’s are unfordable to people, when 6,000 desperate workers apply for 300 Walmart jobs to sell Chinese slave labor products back to Americans.

        It’s not the Chinese people, it is their totalitarian, oppressive, cheating, ruthlessly capitalistic “communist” government you will empower.

        What you will get in plentiful abundance is their increased financial and military might.

        Did prosperity and power make America more or less imperialistic? More.

        I’d prefer to manufacture the tech here and sell it to China in non-military products for as long as we can.

        • bachcole

          Please, I am just as right wing as you are, but I did not include Nazi’s in my list because you need a shovel to “scratch” deep enough to find their humanity. I simply don’t see that the ChiComs are as evil as you say that they are. Not even close. All Communists mean well. No Nazi means well, other than a few Otto Schindlers. Communists are wrong headed; not wrong hearted. A wrong headed person can be redeemed, like the current head of the Chinese state is a fan of Marcus Aurelius. The wrong hearted person can only be redeemed by a bullet passed through their head in excess of the speed of sound.

          • Private Citizen

            you:” All Communists mean well ”

            Mao, still lionized in China, still depicted on the money, killed 40 million in direct democide, sent another 50 million to labor camps, and killed another 40 million via famine. But it’s okay, because he “meant well?” “Good hearted?”
            source:http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Mao

            Today, what you have is all the desperation to keep and hold power, all the paranoia of the oppressed masses, with only blind capitalist greed and compromise by globalist banksters as the ethical compass.

            Nature abhors a power vacuum. Do you really want China holding power? Not me. Wouldn’t live there if you paid me.

            “Marcus Aurelius?”

            New China Leadership Tightens Internet Censorship

            And I certainly do not consider myself right or left wing: perhaps a bit of a green, isolationist, pacifist, rational libertarian–whatever wing that might be.

          • bachcole

            Blah, blah, blah, like we already don’t know what a monster Mao was. And we all know that dictatorships fall prey to this sort of evil. But tell me that Abraham Lincoln was not a dictator during the Civil War, yet very few will say that he was a monster. And we all know (but perhaps don’t recognize it) that anytime an ideologue gets into power there is going to be trouble. This includes libertarian ideologues, conservative ideologues, progressive ideologues. The Soviet and ChiCom ideologue were simply more blinded by their ideologies than most.
            Roger

            Subject: Re: New comment posted on Strong Confirmation of Cherokee’ s Backing of the E-Cat — From China

          • bachcole

            Like we already don’t know what a monster Mao was. I still wince when I see his phucking picture on the face of the palace of the Forbidden City. Whenever our family sees his picture on TV, I remind them that Mao was the worst mass murderer in the history of the world.

            And we all know that
            dictatorships fall prey to this sort of evil. But tell me that Abraham
            Lincoln was not a dictator during the Civil War, yet very few will say
            that he was a monster. And we all know (but perhaps don’t recognize it)
            that anytime an ideologue gets into power there is going to be
            trouble. This includes libertarian ideologues, conservative ideologues,
            progressive ideologues. The Soviet and ChiCom ideologues were simply
            more blinded by their ideologies than most.

            Try looking for the good occasionally and stop being such an ideologue. The Chinese people are doing much better, and they can help us and we can help them. Perhaps the revolutionary nature of LENR+ will flip enough lids so that they won’t feel that they need a nanny state on steroids.

            Roger

          • Private Citizen

            bachcole: “stop being such an ideologue”

            More off-topic name calling? And suggesting people should not hold to ideals? Fantasies that LENR will turn Steel-listed oligarchs into Thomas Jefferson?

            Bye-bye.

          • bachcole

            OMG, you are rejecting me! How could you be such a meanie head.

          • bitplayr

            Not clear how cheaper energy at any scale will overcome the human urge for status and dominance.

          • bachcole

            I agree 101%. And don’t forget lust, greed, anger, gluttony, envy, sloth, and a bunch of other human spiritual ailments. I have been preaching that here for years. As I have said over and over here and elsewhere, LENR+ will alleviate suffering caused by the non-fulfillment of needs, but it will aggravate the suffering caused by the fulfillment of wants. Happily the need or desire to make war will be lessened, but probably as you point out not zeroed. I expect Muslim Militants to run out of cash, but not fervor. US and Chinese and all other nations’ protection of oil transport lanes will disappear. Trade will flourish. Piracy in the Indian Ocean area will eventually decrease somewhat, so there will still be a great power presence there.

      • bkrharold

        I think what you are trying to say is that people everywhere want basically the same things, no matter which system of Government happens to prevail. We know instinctively not to challenge the status quo if we want to be successful. So our silence should not be mistaken for acquiescence.
        It is a mistake to characterize an entire nation by the actions of the leaders, especially when they were not elected, and more recently in the 2000 election in the USA, even when the leader was elected by only 5 people, who reversed the will of millions of voters because they happened to preside on the supreme court.

        • bachcole

          bkrharold, you are too political for me. Politics is INHERENTLY divisive, and I don’t want to be divisive. You interpret everything politically.

          • bkrharold

            Yes I realize this is a blog about the Ecat, and I have strayed far from that topic.

          • bachcole

            Don’t worry about it. I stray all of the time. But I am now catching myself from straying into politics for the reasons that I mentioned. It does not serve my purpose, which is unity.

          • Frank Acland

            Good to hear, Roger!

    • bkrharold

      “Now the Chinese will just have an even greater industrial edge and drive us under”

      It is not the Chinese who are dragging down the USA, it is our very own elected leaders. They have hollowed out our industrial base, and sent all of our manufacturing jobs overseas. They have ruined our education system, and destroyed the middle class. The Chinese are just picking over the carcass of the USA left by the 1%

  • Paul

    I would try to put the pieces of information we have read until now in the right
    perspective. The Cherokee Fund, as we can read in their web site, fits
    perfectly with the philantropic desires expressed by Rossi himself many times
    on his JONP. However Cherokee Fund, as you can read in the same web pages,
    manage ONLY 2 billions of dollars, and their manager provide to the startups
    with good new ideas or product something like 20-25,000 dollars, they ask for a
    functioning prototype and then find bigger investors. Rossi said many times he
    has sold his IP to an American partner. It is simply ridiculous to think that
    Rossi has sold the IP for only 10 or 100 millions of dollar, as its value could
    be easily estimated in, at least, 1 billion of dollars or more. But already 1
    billion is well beyond the typical investment size of Cherokee and, on the
    other side, would be half of their managed assets, not realistic at all! So, in
    my opinion Cherokee is only one of the partners, probably two. Indeed, there
    could be other two partners: the industrial partner and the partner which will
    pay, or has yet paid, the real value of the IP. So there could be three important
    actors, but the last two could be a same industry or corporation, reducing the
    partners to only 2.

    • LCD

      yes I agree it’s just not a lot of money for good proof but then it’s too much for a wild ass shot in the dark. Something doesn’t make sense.

  • LCD

    yes I agree it’s just not a lot of money for good proof but then it’s too much for a wild ass shot in the dark. Something doesn’t make sense.

  • Daniel Maris

    I think you are underestimating the number of different ways this could be arranged. For instance Rossi could have sold the whole of the IP to Industrial Heat, but have been given a royalty on all future sales or given 90% of shares (not necessarily voting shares).

  • BroKeper

    Stolen or not I could live with $500 billion verses $1 trillion at 30% royalties.

    • Daniel Maris

      Assuming Rossi really does have a workable LENR technology, he is going to be rich beyond one’s wildest dreams whatever happens. What he is really playing for, in such circumstances, is putting his name in the history books. Solving the carbon emission problem is Nobel Prize territory.

  • bachcole

    In the Land of Plenty, there are no races.

  • bachcole

    In the Land of Plenty, there are no races.

    • bkrharold

      If only that were true. Prosperity brings out the very worst in human nature.

  • SeeMonkeys

    Asia is definitely embracing CF. Most people may have missed the news of Brillouin signing a licensing agreement with a Korean entity. Oh, Brillouin also holds a nickel hydride patent for LENR.

  • dbg

    Assuming for the sake of argument that Rossi’s LENR/CF technology is the real deal, the possibility that it has been shared with China (private industry and/or government) is very reassuring. LENR/CF technology could still be ‘shut down’ by certain regulatory and other forces in North America and Western Europe. Historical context suggests this possibility. China is out of that loop; and it has capabilities and advantages that have already been pointed out. Yes there are issues with China, but we should be aware of false equivalence and other logical fallacies…

    • bachcole

      And of course it doesn’t help any to hate someone or some group so much that one cannot find it possible to work with them. One of the reasons that there are dictatorships is that we live in the era of scarcity.

  • dbg

    Assuming for the sake of argument that Rossi’s LENR/CF technology is the real deal, the possibility that it has been shared with China (private industry and/or government) is very reassuring. LENR/CF technology could still be ‘shut down’ by certain regulatory and other forces in North America and Western Europe. Historical context suggests this possibility. China is out of that loop; and it has capabilities and advantages that have already been pointed out. Yes there are issues with China, but we should be aware of false equivalence and other logical fallacies…

    • MK

      Given the resistance to CF in the West, a connection to China is a neccessary smart move. Brillouin also has established connection to the East..

      • SeeMonkey

        And Brillouin has CF patent in China.

    • bachcole

      And of course it doesn’t help any to hate someone or some group so much that one cannot find it possible to work with them. One of the reasons that there are dictatorships is that we live in the era of scarcity.

  • bitplayer

    Nice bio of Thomas Darden here (may not have been drawn out in the links below)
    http://www.evofem.com/about/board/

    For me, this adds an increment to the credibility of the current proposed scenario.

    Tom Darden is the Chief Executive Officer of Cherokee Investment Partners, a private equity fund that invests in brownfields. Cherokee made its first brownfield investment in 1990 and has since raised five funds: $50 million in 1996, $250 million in 1999, $620 million in 2003 and $1.24 billion in 2006. Cherokee has invested $750 million in 54 transactions, purchasing more than 500 sites in 35 states, 5 Canadian provinces and 4 European countries. Cherokee’s annual spending on remediating pollution on its sites has been as high as $50 million.

    Beginning in 1984, Mr Darden served for 16 years as the Chairman of Cherokee Sanford Group, a brick manufacturing and soil remediation company. From 1981 to 1983, he was a consultant with Bain & Company in Boston. From 1977 to 1978, he worked as an environmental planner for the Korea Institute of Science and Technology in Seoul, where he was a Luce Scholar. Mr Darden serves on the Board of Governors of the Research Triangle Institute as well as the boards of United Trust Group, Shaw University and the Environmental Defense Fund. He was Chairman of the Research Triangle Transit Authority and served two terms on the N.C. Board of Transportation as well as a past Board member of Waste Industries, Winston Hotels and Consert.

    Mr Darden earned a Masters in Regional Planning from the University of North Carolina, a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School and a Bachelor of Arts from the University of North Carolina, where he was a Morehead Scholar. His 1976 undergraduate thesis analyzed the environmental impact of third world development and his 1981 Yale thesis addressed interstate acid rain air pollution.

    • Mr. Moho

      Evofem is the parent company of the asian subsidary that Daniel Pike, Industrial Heat LLC investor, is vice-president of. See here, on the bottom of the page: http://www.evofem.com/about/management/

      • Daniel Maris

        I love the way no one mentions the similarity between Daniel Pike’s surname and the surname of the CEO – Joseph Pike. 🙂

        • Fortyniner

          Perhaps it’s pronounced differently!

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Perhaps our “top ranked” universities should straighten out the Chinese and tell them that there’s nothing to LENR before they waste any more time on it.

    • bachcole

      Nice chuckle from that one, Alan.

    • bfast

      I say that MIT should be the first to straighten ’em out. Don’t tell anyone that they have put on LENR courses, or that they have a lab running LENR at a COP > 14

      • Alan DeAngelis

        And just because steel sublimed in an E-Cat test, they shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that anything significant happened. That would be irresponsible.

        • bachcole

          I got a loud LOL out of that one.

          • Daniel Maris

            Yep, Zawodny made it clear he didn’t mean what he said as well. Let that be the template.

          • bachcole

            ???

          • Alan DeAngelis

            After all, if there really was something to it George Will
            would have mentioned it.

      • bachcole

        Mr. BFast, how is the weather in your neck of the woods. I bet it is beyond anything that most of us can even imagine. My personal worst is -13 F.

        I am so glad to see you. I really enjoyed you and your blog. And I salute Craig Binns for hanging in there. Too bad he is about to be proven socially retarded.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Perhaps our “top ranked” universities should straighten out the Chinese and tell them that there’s nothing to LENR before they waste any more time on it.

    • bachcole

      Nice chuckle from that one, Alan.

    • bfast

      I say that MIT should be the first to straighten ’em out. Don’t tell anyone that they have put on LENR courses, or that they have a lab running LENR at a COP > 14

      • Alan DeAngelis

        And just because steel sublimed in an E-Cat test, they shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that anything significant happened. That would be irresponsible.

        • bachcole

          I got a loud LOL out of that one.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            After all, if there really was something to it George Will
            would have mentioned it.

      • bachcole

        Mr. BFast, how is the weather in your neck of the woods. I bet it is beyond anything that most of us can even imagine. My personal worst is -13 F.

        I am so glad to see you. I really enjoyed you and your blog. And I salute Craig Binns for hanging in there. Too bad he is about to be proven socially retarded.

  • GreenWin

    Just curious. What would SECNAV have to say about LENR wandering away to the CCP – instead of NRL?

    • bitplayer

      “God bless the American free market economy.”

    • bachcole

      Phuck ’em. They had their chance.

    • GreenWin

      Hmmm. Suppose Dr. Melich suppose quit Dr. Rossi’s Board of Advisers??

  • GreenWin

    Just curious. What would SECNAV have to say about LENR wandering away to the CCP – instead of NRL?

    • bachcole

      Phuck ’em. They had their chance.

    • GreenWin

      Hmmm. Suppose Dr. Melich suppose quit Dr. Rossi’s Board of Advisers??

  • bitplayer

    Re questions about Industrial Heating LLC having sufficient staff and funding to be the main partner:
    From Thomas Darden’s bio:
    http://www.evofem.com/about/board/
    It should be clear that Industrial Heating LLC is well wired into the North Carolina Research Triangle,
    http://www.researchtriangle.org/
    which would give it many channels to recruit experienced technical staff (the kind who are familiar with NDAs and stock options).
    Through Cherokee they would have ample access to additional rounds of funding.

    • Daniel Maris

      I agree with all that. And of course Rossi does bring a small team to the table himself.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zurander

    WOW, been away for a couple of day’s and you guy’s seem to have cracked
    the name of Andrea Rossi’s partner. To me not 100% proof, but quite convincing
    nevertheless. I do hope it doesn’t sabotage the work AR is doing, but
    the MSM is ignoring LENR anyway so not much danger of that.

    In
    regards to China, I’ve changed the way I looked at dictatorships in the
    last couple of years. I used to think that they were bad and it would be
    for the better if those dictators were disposed of for something or someone
    better. Instead we’ve seen numerous examples where dictators were
    disposed of but the end result was war among the various tribal
    fractions. They either went to war between themselves or went to fill
    the power void that was left after the dictator was disposed of. Current
    examples are Irak, Afghanistan and Lybia. Even Egypt is destabilized
    because of the democratic revolution and countless of people have died
    in the wars following 9-11. In a way those dictators might have been a
    good thing as they kept the region relatively stable, being the
    strongest leaders that the other factions respected, however they managed that. Imagine Putin (who I
    don’t regard very well) would be disposed of; what would happen in
    Russia when all the power hungry factions went to (political) war with
    each other because of the power gap? Better Putin than destabilizing the
    whole region which is what sort of happened after Gorbachev opened the
    borders, in what was quite a turbulent time for Russia and the border
    countries. I’m not even sure that they are better of now compared to
    before though I do hope so.

    We should have have learned by now
    that we cannot simply dispose of a tyrant somewhere and expect democracy
    to walk in. Actually, I think the people of a country should earn the
    right to democracy themselves for it to have any worth. That is the people
    of a country must liberate themselves; we cannot simply walk in and
    hand over democracy to them. It would be worth nothing. The people have
    to earn it for democracy to mean something other than hot air. And it
    probably wouldn’t be democracy as we know it, but how they interpret it.
    It could be purer than our current democracy (which is turning out to
    be more like a dictatorship of terror anyway) or worse, but then again
    who are we to judge? Irak under Hussein may have been better off before
    then now.

    What I’m trying to say is that I have no problem with the dictatorship
    China becoming an even bigger economic and military power then they are
    now with the advantage their producing of LENR reactors. Especially since they do seem to steer the country in the right direction, although individual don’t have the amount of freedom and rights they enjoy in more Western Countries such as Europe and the US. Ten years ago I would have been concerned, but nowadays
    things look much different to me.

    In fact, China could be just the boost that LENR needs to break through on a global scale. Other have already
    mentioned how they can mass produce much quicker and they should be much
    more receptive to new energy solutions that would solve their
    current environmental problems.

    All in all, this connection makes much sense to me.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zurander

    WOW, been away for a couple of day’s and you guy’s seem to have cracked
    the name of Andrea Rossi’s partner. To me not 100% proof, but quite convincing
    nevertheless. I do hope it doesn’t sabotage the work AR is doing, but
    the MSM is ignoring LENR anyway so not much danger of that.

    In
    regards to China, I’ve changed the way I looked at dictatorships in the
    last couple of years. I used to think that they were bad and it would be
    for the better if those dictators were disposed of for something or someone
    better. Instead we’ve seen numerous examples where dictators were
    disposed of but the end result was war among the various tribal
    fractions. They either went to war between themselves or went to fill
    the power void that was left after the dictator was disposed of. Current
    examples are Irak, Afghanistan and Lybia. Even Egypt is destabilized
    because of the democratic revolution and countless of people have died
    in the wars following 9-11. In a way those dictators might have been a
    good thing as they kept the region relatively stable, being the
    strongest leaders that the other factions respected, however they managed that. Imagine Putin (who I
    don’t regard very well) would be disposed of; what would happen in
    Russia when all the power hungry factions went to (political) war with
    each other because of the power gap? Better Putin than destabilizing the
    whole region which is what sort of happened after Gorbachev opened the
    borders, in what was quite a turbulent time for Russia and the border
    countries. I’m not even sure that they are better of now compared to
    before though I do hope so.

    We should have have learned by now
    that we cannot simply dispose of a tyrant somewhere and expect democracy
    to walk in. Actually, I think the people of a country should earn the
    right to democracy themselves for it to have any worth. That is the people
    of a country must liberate themselves; we cannot simply walk in and
    hand over democracy to them. It would be worth nothing. The people have
    to earn it for democracy to mean something other than hot air. And it
    probably wouldn’t be democracy as we know it, but how they interpret it.
    It could be purer than our current democracy (which is turning out to
    be more like a dictatorship of terror anyway) or worse, but then again
    who are we to judge? Irak under Hussein may have been better off before
    then now.

    What I’m trying to say is that I have no problem with the dictatorship
    China becoming an even bigger economic and military power then they are
    now with the advantage their producing of LENR reactors. Especially since they do seem to steer the country in the right direction, although individual don’t have the amount of freedom and rights they enjoy in more Western Countries such as Europe and the US. Ten years ago I would have been concerned, but nowadays
    things look much different to me.

    In fact, China could be just the boost that LENR needs to break through on a global scale. Other have already
    mentioned how they can mass produce much quicker and they should be much
    more receptive to new energy solutions that would solve their
    current environmental problems.

    All in all, this connection makes much sense to me.

    • Mauro

      Yes, democracy must be earned (I’d say developed) by the people. Yes, dictators may promote improvements in a society, remember what Hitler did to Germany’s economy. BUT, we shall NEVER let the guard down or be complacent because of that. Democracy sucks, but it’s the best we’ve got, as Churchill said.

  • Buck

    Frank, you raised the question of how the rest of the world will respond to China’s involvement. Well, apparently the China connection is coincident with a crack in the denier’s edifice: US DOE has opened the door to funding LENR projects. While the DOE announcement predates our becoming aware, it is fair to suggest that those who care in the US Gov’t were very aware and guided the decision.

    LINK>> https://news.newenergytimes.net/2014/01/03/u-s-department-of-energy-invites-submission-of-lenr-proposals/

    • Daniel Maris

      I wonder what the snake thinks about these latest developments…

      • Buck

        According to Chinese Astrology, the Year of the Snake person is a smart person. They think of clever schemes in a cold calculating manner. They are loners and use others to achieve their aims and goals. Their goals may be worthwhile for mankind or could be solely for the gain of the Snake person. Some people find them attractive because of their swift movement and slender silky beauty. Other people are repelled by the Year of the Snake person because of their perceived danger. Whatever – the person born in the Year of the Snake will invoke a strong reaction from people.

        LINK>> http://www.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/Kaleidoscope/cultural_tool/year_snake/index.html

        In a odd manner, the description fits the situation. Yes?

        • Daniel Maris

          Well someone is being snakey somewhere…

          • Buck

            cold and heartless . . . cold and heartless . . .

            it is to be expected when you talk about the profits associated with delivering the feedstock that comprises about 8-9% of the global economy and has engendered too many wars . . . that sort of concentration of power can bring out the snake in some people

            it is interesting that the consequences of LENR has already colored the political discourse, at least here in the US.

          • Daniel Maris

            I like to think I am an early predictor – I was backing Space X way back when…but I’m not making any firm predictions at this stage.

          • Buck

            😉

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Snake who? Since he took his site “for pay” no one is listening.

  • Buck

    Frank, you raised the question of how the rest of the world will respond to China’s involvement. Well, apparently the China connection is coincident with a crack in the denier’s edifice: US DOE has opened the door to funding LENR projects. While the 9/27/2013 DOE announcement predates our becoming aware, it is fair to suggest that those who care in the US Gov’t were very aware and guided the decision.

    LINK>> https://news.newenergytimes.net/2014/01/03/u-s-department-of-energy-invites-submission-of-lenr-proposals/

    2014 Will be an incredible year ! ! !

  • bkrharold

    If China truly is to be the first beneficiary of LENR, then it is not due to their great virtue or worthiness. It is a practical matter of survival. Luckily for them, their political process is not hostage to the fossil fuel industry. Whether or not there is any truth to the rumor of Rossi’s involvement with Cherokee and Industrial Heat LLC remains to be seen. However we now know that a South Korean manufacturing company have signed a multi million dollar licencing agreement with Broullion Energy, one of Rossis competitors.

    http://pesn.com/2013/12/30/9602416_S-Korean-manufacturing-company_signs_license_with_Brillouin-LENR-technology/

    Either, way the short sighted so called leaders in the USA have allowed the opportunity of a lifetime to slip through their fingers. The reason for their myopia is from having their noses stuck so far up the posterior of the wealthiest 1%. This does not bode well for the future of USA.

    • Daniel Maris

      “Whether or not there is any truth to the rumor of Rossi’s involvement with Cherokee and Industrial Heat LL” – I think really you’ve got to come up with an alternative thesis to Rossi before you can put it that way! I haven’t seen any other thesis that covers the facts as well as the Rossi thesis.

      • bachcole

        Sort of like many of bkrharold’s theses.

        • Daniel Maris

          Que?

  • bkrharold

    If China truly is to be the first beneficiary of LENR, then it is not due to their great virtue or worthiness. It is a practical matter of survival. Luckily for them, their political process is not hostage to the fossil fuel industry. Whether or not there is any truth to the rumor of Rossi’s involvement with Cherokee and Industrial Heat LLC remains to be seen. However we now know that a South Korean manufacturing company have signed a multi million dollar licencing agreement with Broullion Energy, one of Rossis competitors.

    http://pesn.com/2013/12/30/9602416_S-Korean-manufacturing-company_signs_license_with_Brillouin-LENR-technology/

    Either, way the short sighted so called leaders in the USA have allowed the opportunity of a lifetime to slip through their fingers. The reason for their myopia is from having their noses stuck so far up the posterior of the wealthiest 1%. This does not bode well for the future of USA.

  • bachcole

    bkrharold, you are too political for me. Politics is INHERENTLY divisive, and I don’t want to be divisive. You interpret everything politically.

  • Daniel Maris

    Yes, they are claiming substantial S. Korean investment aren’t they?

  • alex

    we all better start learning Chinese

    • bachcole

      And what about Swedish? Have we all forgotten about Elforsk. Oh, and Korean a la Brillouin. But the Korean – Brillouin connection is not confirmed. But we have two confirmed, independent business entities saying that they believe with all of their pocketbooks that LENR+ is real.

  • Job001

    “The die has been cast” from a Latin phrase attributed by Suetonius, to Julius Caesar on January 10, 49 BC as he led his army across the River Rubicon (Northern Italy).

    That it would come to this in this war, China involvement, was “necessity as mother of invention”, thus predictable in retro perspective, i.e. with confirmation bias, and Déjà vu.

    • kdk

      Actually, people saw it coming. It’s the same reason why SPAWAR were the ones to continue cold fusion research. One of the few places left where merit meant something. It’s also far from surprising that it came out of Sweden, where they actually care about people.

      Food for thought.

  • Job001

    “The die has been cast” from a Latin phrase attributed by Suetonius, to Julius Caesar on January 10, 49 BC as he led his army across the River Rubicon (Northern Italy).

    That it would come to this in this war, China involvement, was “necessity as mother of invention”, thus predictable in retro perspective, i.e. with confirmation bias, and Déjà vu.

    • kdk

      Actually, people saw it coming. It’s the same reason why SPAWAR were the ones to continue cold fusion research. One of the few places left where merit meant something. It’s also far from surprising that it came out of Sweden, where they actually care about people.

      Food for thought.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    I bet Carrier will GULP when someone alerts them to the fact that a major Chinese HVAC company has signed on to an American company’s LENR technology….right under their nose.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Another company that I bet will take notice is the Broad Company, a Chinese HVAC company that happens to be revolutionizing the skycraper construction business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_Group

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    I bet Carrier will GULP when someone alerts them to the fact that a major Chinese HVAC company has signed on to an American company’s LENR technology….right under their nose.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Another company that I bet will take notice is the Broad Company, a Chinese HVAC company that happens to be revolutionizing the skycraper construction business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_Group

  • Andrew Macleod

    So apparently on august 23 2013 they received $12 million in funding….. On the sec form they have checked the “other” box in type of energy generation… http://www.whogotfunded.com/deals/195917-industrial-heat-llc

  • Julian Becker

    The most important information in the article is in the first paragraph. He met with the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council (SASAC) and the National Development and Reform Commission. Both bodies are directly answering to the Chinese Prime Minister Li Keqiang and are the two main bodies for the macro economic planning of the entire Chinese economy. This is amazing news! This is attention right from the top of Chinese leadership to LENR!

    • bachcole

      Wow! Thank you for that.

  • Julian Becker

    The most important information in the article is in the first paragraph. He met with the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council (SASAC) and the National Development and Reform Commission. Both bodies are directly answering to the Chinese Prime Minister Li Keqiang and are the two main bodies for the macro economic planning of the entire Chinese economy. This is amazing news! This is attention right from the top of Chinese leadership to LENR!

    • bachcole

      Wow! Thank you for that.

  • Andrew Macleod

    Well don’t know where my last post went. It appears that industrial heat llc gong $12 million this past august in funding. This is where Cherokee could come into play, did they fund industrial heat? http://www.whogotfunded.com/deals/195917-industrial-heat-llc

  • Anderw MacLeod

    Industrial Heat LLC received $12 Million in funding on august 23, 2013. They filed a notice of exempt offering of securities, SEC form D. Two People listed on the form Thomas Daren(Pres), T.J.Vaughn(VP).
    Their Business is listed in the energy sector and they type of energy is “other”. This all fits. This is probably how Cherokee has gotten involved.

  • georgehants

    Fuku Warning! US Gov’t Orders 14 Million Doses Of Potassium Iodide (Video)
    On December 6th the US Department of Health and Human Services put a
    solicitation notice on the Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) website
    for 14 million 65 mg doses of Potassium Iodide,
    the standard treatment protocol for someone exposed to high levels of
    radiation. As a stipulation of this solicitation, which gets bid on by
    registered contractors, the HHS requires the 14 million doses to be
    delivered by the end of January. In other words, the HHS needs enough
    doses of Potassium Iodide to treat 14 million Americans by the end of
    January!

    The primary use for Potassium Iodide is used for treating, as well
    as minimizing damaging effects from, radiation poisoning. The area of
    the human body that are most-sensitive to radiation exposure are the
    thyroid gland. It absorbs the radiation like a wet sponge.
    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/01/warning-us-govt-orders-14-million-doses-of-potassium-iodide-video-2862450.html

  • georgehants

    Fuku Warning! US Gov’t Orders 14 Million Doses Of Potassium Iodide (Video)
    On December 6th the US Department of Health and Human Services put a
    solicitation notice on the Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) website
    for 14 million 65 mg doses of Potassium Iodide,
    the standard treatment protocol for someone exposed to high levels of
    radiation. As a stipulation of this solicitation, which gets bid on by
    registered contractors, the HHS requires the 14 million doses to be
    delivered by the end of January. In other words, the HHS needs enough
    doses of Potassium Iodide to treat 14 million Americans by the end of
    January!
    The primary use for Potassium Iodide is used for treating, as well
    as minimizing damaging effects from, radiation poisoning. The area of
    the human body that are most-sensitive to radiation exposure are the
    thyroid gland. It absorbs the radiation like a wet sponge.
    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/01/warning-us-govt-orders-14-million-doses-of-potassium-iodide-video-2862450.html

  • bachcole

    And what about Swedish? Have we all forgotten about Elforsk. Oh, and Korean a la Brillouin. But the Korean – Brillouin connection is not confirmed. But we have two confirmed, independent business entities saying that they believe with all of their pocketbooks that LENR+ is real.

  • bachcole

    Don’t worry about it. I stray all of the time. But I am now catching myself from straying into politics for the reasons that I mentioned. It does not serve my purpose, which is unity.

    • ecatworld

      Good to hear, Roger!