Randell Mills Comments on Upcoming Blacklight Power Demonstration

Thanks, David for finding this short Q&A with BLP CEO Randell Mills regarding the upcoming Jan 28th demonstration. The conversation can be found on the Society for Classical Physics in Yahoo Groups, where Mills sometimes posts.

Q: Will the demonstration produce electricity that can be compared to input versus output or will the constructed device showcase just the highly energetic plasma?

A: The energetic plasma will be demonstrated. The energy and power balances will be measured using a commercial calorimeter that will quantify megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter.

I will also go over the system engineering, hydrino product characterization, and talk about applications and commercialization.

We have to build the MHD converter for plasma to electric conversion, the basis of a later public demonstration.

Q: In my spare time I’ve been trying to absorb this incredible announcement of a cubic foot device that can power 10,000 homes. The patent and the animation are very helpful. Solid fuel (common chemicals that can be induced to undergo hydrino transitions under certain conditions) appears to be delivered into the reaction chamber by cogs and a high amp current delivered to induce an extremely dense hydrino reaction (based on H20 catalyst reactions) that converts most of the solid fuel into a pulse of highly energetic ions (plasma). The plasma pulse expands at high speed leaving the reaction chamber and entering the MHD. This requires a superconductor and liquid helium and nitrogen but hopefully results in up to 50% of the energy of the plasma being converted into electricity.

A: The conversion could be much more efficient than 50% with a fully ionized supersonic plasma.

Q: The products of the solid fuel are conveyed to a section of the device where the addition of water from a tank regenerates the fuel to an active form and it is conveyed back to the cogs and reaction chamber to facilitate further plasma pulses.

A: that’s the process.

So it sounds from this that there will be no direct electrical conversion demonstrated (but maybe in a later demo), and we will be reliant upon a calorimeter to accurately measure power levels — familiar territory when it comes to demonstrations of many of these advanced energy systems — and no doubt power measurements will provide plenty of material for much discussion and analysis.

  • Oceans2014

    … a cubic foot device that can power 10,000 homes … Lets hope they have a convincing Demo, we know these Demos are easy to blow-up.

  • Daniel Maris

    Hmmm…not sure I understand what this means exactly. Is it a sustained reaction or a fizz pop one off thing?

    Does make one slightly sceptical when he’s had so many years to develop this, that he has nothing in place to harness the heat energy!

    I am not saying I disbelieve the claims – but one is always looking for a convincing demo, and it sounds like with this we may back in the land of disputed calorimetry.

    Eager to hear others’ views who may understand what is going on better.

  • LENR G

    I predict complete confusion after this demo.

    The process requires quite a bit of energy — high current — in bursts to get it going. The resulting energy also seems to occur in bursts. If the input bursts are close together you get something resembling continuous input and output. And my understanding is both the input and output are plasma/EM effect rather than heat. My guess is that if you thought the debates over heat calorimetry were fun, just wait for the epic battles over measuring plasma energy. From a live demo it will next to impossible to verify the input energy and output energy.

    Second, since the alleged power is so high for even just a liter of fuel they will probably use something more like a milliliter or even less. So the claimed power ranges in the demo will likely be in the watts and kilowatts, rather than the megawatts and gigawatts claimed. This will probably send some people ballistic on principle alone. As in “Don’t claim gigawatts and megawatts and then show me kilowatts. Fraud!”

    Next he’s going to talk about hydrinos, which will turn off most all of the scientific community that might have paid some attention to the empirical evidence in the demo.

    We will be left where we are now with Rossi and Defkalion. The uncertainty is simply too high based on 3rd party validations, live demos, shadowy investments and parterships and never ending R&D and testing phases. We need a working product and/or widespread scientific replication.

    Blacklight Power… IF YOU HAVE WHAT YOU SAY, DON’T FALL INTO THIS TRAP. After your live demo (fine, understand why you would do this), give one to a dozen major universities to study under no restrictions other than they can’t license it or commercialize it. Let’s end this end cycle of uncertainty and get on with it. What you have is too important and our situation too dire for any further delays. If you have it.

    • Bertuswonkel

      Well don’t forget that BL has raised around 60 million dollars. Those that invested are hoping to see buck loads of money coming their way, not a wide spread replication. The risk of losing the IP is high and why would you want to encourage competition? Better to flush the market, get a strong position, and never let got just like Microsoft.
      I agree that the demo will probably not convince many people, we shall see.

      • bachcole

        I went to http://www.blacklightpower.com and started reading: “BlackLight has produced millions of watts of power in a volume that is
        one ten thousandths of a liter corresponding to a power density of over
        an astonishing 10 billion watts per liter.”

        I know that he has confirmation. I know that everyone is excited about Blacklight. But there are so many things wrong with the first sentence that I can’t read any more. 1st, a watt is not a measure of power. A watt/time would be a measure of power. A watt is a measure of energy. My little finger puts out millions of watts of energy, although it has taken 68 years to do it. This makes the “in a volume that is 1/10,000th of a liter” meaningless. And then we have a run-on sentence. And then they (he) just does a little math comes up with another meaningless phrase “a power density of over an astonishing 10 billion watts per liter.” Perhaps Randall Mills wanted his teenage daughter (who is majoring in home ec) write this introductory article. I hope so, or else Randall Mills has flipped his lid.

        • SteveW

          He’s been working on this for over 20 years, burned through 60 million dollars, perhaps has nothing close to commercialization while others are getting close, yes, it’s very possible he’s flipped his lid.

          • Sandy

            “BlackLight Power Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Conectiv Solutions LLC.”

            http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=61802124

            Click on “Detailed Description” to see the full “Company Overview”.

            Who controls Conectiv Solutions LLC?

          • LENR G

            Holy moly, it’s PEPCO.

            Pepco Holdings owns…
            Connectiv LLC owns…
            Connectiv Solutions owns…
            BlackLight Power

          • Bertuswonkel

            Interesting, so basically the company BL has already been sold to PEPCO?

            Wiki on Subsidiary:
            A subsidiary, subsidiary company, daughter company, or sister company is a company that is completely or partly owned by another corporation that owns more than half of the subsidiary’s stock, and which normally acting as a holding corporation which at least partly or (when as) a parent corporation, wholly controls the activities and policies of the daughter corporation.

            So Mills cannot do anything important without approval of PEPCO?

          • LENR G

            Businessweek says Blacklight is a subsidiary of Collectiv Solutions LLC, but the Pepco chart above seems to indicate that Collectiv Solutions only owns a small piece of Blacklight.

            So the answer is we don’t really know yet. Some conflicting/ambiguous info to sort through/

          • tombuktu

            http://www.insideview.com/directory/conectiv-solutions-llc
            conectiv solutions is/was(?) controlled/managed by ceo and cfo of comverge inc.. comverge merged with H.I.G. Capital, LLC in May 2012 and is n since then no longer listed on stock exchange.
            http://www.comverge.com/newsroom/comverge-press-releases/2012/Comverge-and-H-I-G–Capital-Announce-Completion-of

          • tombuktu

            http://www.zeitgeist-online.de/exklusivonline/fachartikel/58-kalte-fusion-und-blacklight-power-wasser-als-potenzielle-energiequelle.html
            Ein Blick in den Aufsichtsrat zeigt die Präsenz von Finanzsektor,
            Energieindustrie und Militär. Der Investor Jim Lenehan, Berater beim
            Hedge Fond Cerberus, teilte CNNMoney.com mit, BlackLight Power sei kein
            riskanter Teil seines Investmentportfolios mehr.
            translation: a look on the supervisory board shows high profile of finacial sector, energy industri and the military. investor jim lenehan, consultant at cerberus hedge fund told cnnmoney that blp is no longer a risky part of his portfolio.
            The article is written by Heiko Lietz. a journalist who has written several extensive summarys of LENR
            developments.
            Perhaps we should take a closer look to the board members of blacklight?

            thomas

          • Fastbuck

            If you look at the chart you will see Connectiv Solutions owns < 1% of Blacklight Power LLC.

          • Job001

            The small cost by typically successful private investors who provide oversight is a fabulous bargain!
            Think about taxpayer funded billions of dollars for hot fusion and ITER for 60 years that will never deliver economical power assuming LENR succeeds. Losers!

          • Curbina

            When I saw MHD plasma to electricity then I thought that this is not going to go anywhere. Ask Dr. Jean Pierre Petit: “Been There, Done That”. Petit says he is the single civil MHD specialist. All the others are under DoD programs. Plasma to electricity was popular in the 60s.

          • Curbina

            http://www.jp-petit.org/science/mhd/m_mhd_e/m_mhd_e.htm this link has a summary of the MHD articles by Dr. Jean Pierr Petit. You can see the section of Plasma to Electricity conversion.

          • Job001

            It may be simpler than we think, nearly free energy does not require extremely high recovery efficiency so extreme optimization and higher capital cost should not be required.

          • Curbina

            The catch here is that the reaction already produces moving plasma, so it’s kind of straight forward to use MHD conversion. The problem is that MHD is a gateway to many other things that defense departments will try to keep top secret.

          • GreenWin

            Keep in mind that Mills’ work with DOD can be traced back to 1991 and his excess heat work for USAF Wright Patterson, Ohio. MHD also seems to appear in the NASA GRC thermoacoustic Stirling “engine” as a commercial CHP system announced by Nirvana Energy as ‘TAPS.” http://www.nirvana-es.com/technology.html

          • Curbina

            Well, thanks for that, I was not aware that Mills worked under DoD. All of MHS projects ar not only DoD but top secret, so he might have learnt a thing or two that he wanted to bring to the civilian world. Almost the same that has bee doing Ruggero Santilli with his “partial form of fusion that is produced by a strong plasma field”… So, at least Mills is not the only one that claims that you can get energy from reducing the diameter of electrons orbit in the hydrogen atom. I will insist that both Mills and Santilli are talking about the same phenomena with different names. IMHO, two unrelated persons talking about the same phenomena it’s a tell tale that the phenomena is real. Santilli develiopped these ideas when working in secret programs for the DoE.

          • Frechette

            Hot fusion has burned through hundreds of billions since the late 1960’s and a working reactor isn’t promised until mid century. How’s that bargain work for ya.

        • LENR G

          Actually I think you confused yourself.

          Watt is the metric unit for power.
          Joule is the metric unit for energy.

          Energy per time is power. For example 1 joule per second is 1 watt.
          Power cannot be summed over time. Running a 5 MW power plant for 10 seconds *DOES NOT* mean you have produced 50 megawatts of power… it means you have produced 50 joules of energy.

          So everything he said makes perfect sense, unit-wise.

          He is claiming a continuous power output of >1 MW (megawatt) from less than a milliliter of water.

          And the power density (in terms of fuel volume) for such a set up is >1 MW / 0.0001 L = >10 GW / L (ten gigawatts per liter).

          The power density in terms of mass is the same because one liter of water equals one kilogram of mass. So the power density (mass) is 10 GW / kg.

          • bachcole

            ?So, is not 1 watt (power) for 1 second = 1 watt/second or 1 joule?

          • LENR G

            Nope.

            1 watt of power for one second is 1 W x 1 s = 1 Watt-second.
            I know this confuses a lot of people. Sometimes you’ll see energy quantities expressed in terms of power-time units. For example, I get my home electric bills in terms of kWh… kilowatt-hours. Power multiplied by time.

            1 joule of energy output over 1 second is one watt of power.
            1 J/s = 1 W. (not 1 W/s = 1 J)
            multiply by 1 second and you get…
            1 J = 1 Ws (1 joule equals 1 watt-second… that’s watt times second not watt per second or watt minus second)

          • bachcole

            Thank you. I think that I got it now. So, a watt is an instantaneous measurement. One watt for one second is one joule. One hundred watts for one hour is 360,000 joules???? I think. Joules is the energy, watts is the power. So, 360,000 joules in one second would be quite a bang; if one’s computer screen did that one would be a crispy critter. (:->)

          • Frechette

            Stated simply total energy consumed for a given period is the time integral of power. That’s what your electric meter measures and that’s how the electric company charges its customers.

          • Frechette

            No it is not. 1 watt for one second is a watt second not 1 watt per second ( 1 watt/second) as you believe. A watt second is one joule which is the energy produced by using 1 watt for 1 second. Big difference.

          • Anon2012_2014

            1 joule/second = 1 watt

            1 watt second = 1 joule

            P = E/t

            P=power (watts)
            E=energy (joules)
            t=time (seconds)

        • Gerard McEk

          If he says he is producing 10 MW of power, then he produces every second 10 MJoule of energy, which is equal to 10 MWs. To supply the mentioned households he needs to do this continuously without interruption or ‘pulses’, which is not in the way this process seems to work. If his plasma produces 10 MW during 1 msec, then he needs to flash this plasma 1000 times per second continuously to produce the required 10 MW for the housholds.
          If I look to the drawings of his patent and the description above, then these fuel tablets are about 2 mm high and 4 mm in diameter. With the power density Mills is mentioning, these tablets will be completely vaporized and are unlikely to be regenerated. You are right Bachcole, there seems to be something wrong.

          • LENR G

            I think Mills is claiming that the energy released takes the form of plasma that is then extracted using magnets. It remains to be seen what fraction of the energy is converted to heat and what/if any cooling subsystem is in place to keep the “fuel tablet” from being destroyed. He implies that the heat is not a major factor.

            I guess the “fuel tablet” is where the isolated water molecules are split into monatomic hydrogen (and oxygen) and the hydrino transitions occur. But we don’t really know much about that piece at this point. It’s not really a fuel tablet… it’s just the place where the nascent water (isolated water molecules I believe) gets processed. It should remain unchanged.

            In any case the full up system he envisions involves a lot of energy and a lot of engineering challenges.

            The system he demos might use much more manageable energy output — especially if he plans to show the output plasma directly.

          • Anon2012_2014

            Nascent means newly created. He probably means either

            1) Water newly bonded with hydrinos

            or

            2) Water newly created from H2 or mono-atomic hydrogen.

            I am not saying I believe in hydrinos, but in BLP speak, he believes he is taking monatomic H and transition it to hydrinos with a big high current spark of 20KA per cm^2.

            All his demos and machines then have to have monatomic H in a state that a big current gives him the results he needs to get the hydrino transition with the resulting energy release.

            One patent shows a film of NiOOH. I am assuming this is nickel oxide with a paste of hydroxide. The big spark then converts this supposedly to energy in a flash that he measures the heat by the heat required to vaporize the NiOOH plus a nickel mesh screen used to support the NiOOH. Some better chemist than me can compute the heat of combustion or reaction by burning/reacting these elements with (nitrogen and oxygen).

            He has a later experiment in the patent with actual calorimetry. The energy densities again don’t look higher than chemical (gasoline in air).

            I want to see what he demos. If he has a reliable way to make the energy that is not chemical and cheaper than natural gas (or free as he thinks), he can find a way to engineer this into a magnetohydrodynamic electric generator. That part is easy. He has a resume search out for a Ph.D. to do this. Should be plenty of escapee from the princeton plasma physics lab.

          • LENR G

            What I got out of the significance of “nascent” H2O was that water normally has a bunch of hydrogen bonds (the bonds that make it sticky to itself and clump in drops) and that these hydrogen bonds prevent the hydrino transition process.

            So the nascent H2O is a newly formed (at the anode) H2O molecule isolated from other water molecules, free from those troublesome hydrogen bonds with other H2O molecules. That new, isolated water molecule somehow acts as a catalyst for a lone hydrogen atom to undergo the transition from regular hydrogen to a hydrino.

            They describe the process here:
            http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/ciht-cell/

          • bachcole

            I post here and elsewhere scores of comments every day. There is nary a grammatical or spelling or understanding error in a single one of my comments. I re-read my comments several times to make sure that they are right. I know that some people read my comments; I know that some people don’t read my comments. In either case I know that they delete my comments and that is the end of them. I have no illusions that any of my comments will end up in a picture frame in the Library of Congress. But Randall Mills has a website whose leading article announces a World and company saving presentation on the 28th of January, which could actually end up in a picture frame in the Library of Congress, and yet the piece is a freaking mess. It is covered with mistakes and grammar problems and understandability problems. It reads like what my 14 year old son would write, and he got a ‘C’ in English. It doesn’t make any sense that Dr. Mills would do this. Perhaps I am just making too much out of this.

        • LilyLover

          Usually, you have good intentions and good heart but this is why people cannot take you more seriously. That BLP sentence has much more significance than you are willing to assimilate. If science is not your forte, here is social proof your style – Read his 3 free books; or at least see pics in the books. If he can write all that without errors, he’s NOT gonna make mistakes on his web-page.

        • Frechette

          Wrong! A watt is indeed a measure of power. A watt x time is a measure of energy. Thus a watt hour or watt second is energy and power is the rate of doing work or the rate of use of energy.
          P=E/t where P is power in watts, E is energy in joules and t is time in seconds in the MKS system of units.

          • LCD

            “The identity of the dark matter of the universe as Hydrinos is supported by BlackLight’s spectroscopic and analytical results as well as astrophysical observations.”

            Dark matter supposedly reacts very weakly if at all with light so it just seems like the hydrino would have a tough time becoming a “normal” hydrogen atom again.

            But apparently just adding water brings back the hydrogen atom…(scratching head)

            Has somebody wrapped their head around this yet? I read the analysis done on the hydrino several years ago and it simply violates several laws of physics e.g. its theory does not predict the energy levels of hydrogen.

            Anybody?

          • Job001

            Suggest another view, the necessary catalytic components are “brought back”, read the report about the many components that can catalyze the required reactions. Hydrinos theoretically are very small and would just disappear, i.e. go away, being even harder to contain than hydrogen.

          • Karl

            Have you given it a thought that it may be an illusion to talk about physical LAWs and better stick to the term theories. Perhaps we should imagine we are just humans that continue to explore the magical nature and successively grasp and decipher hidden information in the magnificent universe.

          • Job001

            Yep.
            Knowledge, as, overly simple metaphor.

          • Fortyniner

            I wonder if the recyclable component might be a hydroxide, which becomes an oxide as a result of the reaction process and is then reacted with water vapour to re-form the hydroxide? The net result would be a sort of hydrogen conveyor belt carrying H2 from the air to the electrodes. Most alkali metal hydroxides would fit the bill as they all have strongly hygroscopic oxides, e.g., Li2O + H2O >> 2 LiOH.

          • tlp

            I think the hydrogen atom is lost forever. But no panic, we have plenty of them!

          • LENR G

            I think Mills says somewhere that the hydrino’s tightly bound electron does not interact with photons, so you can’t laser them back to normal hydrogen (I wonder why).

            However he also says that they *can* be bumped back into normal hydrogen via kinetic energy transfer. So put them in a sufficiently hot material/gas or fire sufficiently energetic particles at them and you can convert hydrinos to hydrogen.

            Fascinating stuff if true. A whole new branch of chemistry and physics.

            That’s why nobody believes it.

          • tlp

            I just meant that there in no need to convert them back. At least it takes as much energy as was released.

          • BroKeeper

            Sounds like a great fire retardant for forest fires. 🙂

      • LENR G

        I guess I feel that if somebody figured out how to build their device ten minutes from now that they are still in a position to make more money than any company on the face of the planet has ever made in the entire history of the world. And I think they should be satisfied with that — even if it’s not the theoretical most money they could possibly make — and get this technology out where it will do some good soonest.

    • Fortyniner

      I agree with your comments, and my hopes for anything earth-shattering on the 28th have declined greatly in response to Mills’ words. Maybe we’ll still get there in time, but that time is obviously not now. As Admin says – familiar territory.

      Another thing – from implications of almost complete output in electricity we are now looking at ‘much more than 50%’ but only with ‘fully ionised plasma’ whatever that means (anything not fully ionised is not plasma). So there IS heat, and the claimed energy output must be in doubt.

      The rendered image shows coolant in and out, and presumably this is for the waste heat. It isn’t clear whether the liquid helium and liquid nitrogen for the superconducting magnets are also the coolant (in which case the supply cost would be enormous), or whether there is some other flow. The coolant tubes shown look too small to carry away more than a few kilowatts if water cooling is envisaged.

      All in all the new information is disappointing, to put it mildly. They may well have a COP=2 variant of CF as independently verified, but it seems we will at best be seeing only indirectly calculated evidence of claimed higher output on the 28th.

      • georgehants

        Peter you have enlightened me on one thing I thought things where happening on the 21st.
        Best.

        • LENR G

          The 20th is the publicized end of Defkalion’s cone of silence. Perhaps something will happen that day and made you think of the 21st.

          • georgehants

            LENR G, so much happening, I am putting out all the positive vibs I can.

    • Kim

      That is about 2 drops of water = 1 million watts.

      Respect
      Kim

  • I predict complete confusion after this demo.

    The process requires quite a bit of energy — high current — in bursts to get it going. The resulting energy also seems to occur in bursts. If the input bursts are close together you get something resembling continuous input and output. And my understanding is both the input and output are plasma/EM effect rather than heat. My guess is that if you thought the debates over heat calorimetry were fun, just wait for the epic battles over measuring plasma energy. From a live demo it will be next to impossible to verify the input energy and output energy.

    Second, since the alleged power is so high for even just a liter of fuel they will probably use something more like a milliliter or even less. So the claimed power ranges in the demo will likely be in the watts and kilowatts, rather than the megawatts and gigawatts claimed. This will probably send some people ballistic on principle alone. As in “Don’t claim gigawatts and megawatts and then show me kilowatts. Fraud!”

    Next he’s going to talk about hydrinos, which will turn off most all of the scientific community that might have paid some attention to the empirical evidence in the demo.

    We will be left where we are now with Rossi and Defkalion. The uncertainty is simply too high based on 3rd party validations, live demos, shadowy investments and parterships and never ending R&D and testing phases. We need a working product and/or widespread scientific replication.

    Blacklight Power… IF YOU HAVE WHAT YOU SAY, DON’T FALL INTO THIS TRAP. After your live demo (fine, understand why you would do this), give one to a dozen major universities to study under no restrictions other than they can’t license it or commercialize it. Let’s end this ridiculous cycle of uncertainty and get on with it. What you have is too important and our situation too dire for any further delays. If you have it.

    • Bertuswonkel

      Well don’t forget that BL has raised around 60 million dollars. Those that invested are hoping to see buck loads of money coming their way, not a wide spread replication. The risk of losing the IP is high and why would you want to encourage competition? Better to flush the market, get a strong position, and never let go just like Microsoft.
      I agree that the demo will probably not convince many people, we shall see.

      • I guess I feel that if somebody figured out how to build their device ten minutes from now that they are still in a position to make more money than any company on the face of the planet has ever made in the entire history of the world. And I think they should be satisfied with that — even if it’s not the theoretical most money they could possibly make — and get this technology out where it will do some good soonest.

    • I agree with your comments, and my hopes for anything earth-shattering on the 28th have declined to ‘well, I suppose it might be interesting’ in response to Mills’ new comments. If anything I would judge that they are intended to downplay expectations, after the reaction to the initial press release. Maybe we’ll still get there in time, but that time is obviously not now. As Admin says – familiar territory.

      Another thing – from implications of almost complete conversion of output to electricity, we are now looking at ‘much more than 50%’ but only with ‘fully ionised plasma’ whatever that means (anything not fully ionised is not plasma). So there IS heat, and the claimed output and reactor sizes must be in doubt if any more than the tiniest percentage of the total energy produced has to be removed by coolants as heat.

      The rendered image shows coolant tubes in and out, presumably for the waste heat from the conversion process. It isn’t clear whether the liquid helium and liquid nitrogen for the superconducting magnets are also the coolant (in which case the supply cost would be enormous), or whether there is some other flow. The coolant tubes shown look too small to carry away more than a few kilowatts if water cooling is envisaged.

      All in all the new information is disappointing, to put it mildly. They may well have a COP=2 variant of CF as independently verified, but it seems we will at best be seeing only indirectly calculated evidence of the claimed far higher output for the ‘SF-CIHT’ on the 28th.

      Seems it may be deja vu all over again.

      • georgehants

        Peter you have enlightened me on one thing I thought things where happening on the 21st.
        Best.

        • The 20th is the publicized end of Defkalion’s cone of silence. Perhaps something will happen that day and made you think of the 21st.

          • georgehants

            LENR G, so much happening, I am putting out all the positive vibs I can.

  • SteveW

    Mills states, “We have to build the MHD converter for plasma to electric conversion, the basis of a later public demonstration.”

    So, the MHD converter is mentioned and described in the patent 17 times, yet they haven’t built and I presume tested it yet?

    How can this be taken seriously?

    • wayne

      Power conversion is older than anyone alive, yet this energy source is new. A person could build a dam knowing it ll produce electricity without actually building a custom generator beforehand.

  • Gordon Docherty

    On the BLP website, there is now a video of the system as it is intended to operate with heat exchangers…

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/trialgraphix-video/

    Not sure whether this will be being demonstrated. If it is, a closed loop with a bank of lights and big switch to break the loop if runaway starts to occur would be fairly convincing especially if it can be shown:

    a) there is no (giant!) magnetron present above or below the demo site
    b) there are no hidden wires or “hidden DC” on the wires – better yet, no wires entering the closed system (this would require the 10,000 amp charger to be a part of the system
    c) there is no concentrated energy beam firing a continuous intense beam into the system from outside
    d) there are no unusual (electromagnetic) energy fields that may be focused on the device from outside

    e) there are no hidden mega-capacitors or, if there are mega-capacitors (for current / frequency smoothing), show they are without charge at first (demonstrating this with a simple straight short across the terminals after they have first been shown to be discharged)
    f) the device is not sitting on hidden platform contacts/terminals, preferably sitting on a clear perspex box and, if possible, lifted from the box to demonstrate it is unattached.

    – all suggestions put forward by skeptics over the last three years when it came to considering the various LENR demos that have been held in that time…

    • Fortyniner

      “We have to build the MHD converter for plasma to electric conversion, the basis of a later public demonstration.” So it would seem that no MHD converter has yet been built, and it is just a theoretical device at present. I guess what we’ll see is a bright plasma discharge a la Ugo Abundo, inside a ported or transparent reactor hooked up to some kind of calorimeter setup, with the usual array of thermometers and meters.

      Donk970’s comment above seems to be pretty much on the ball.

    • Veblin

      The video has a new address as it’s name changed from trialgraphix-video to 10-mw-generator
      http://www.blacklightpower.com/10-mw-generator/

  • Gordon Docherty

    On the BLP website, there is now a video of the system as it is intended to operate with heat exchangers…

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/trialgraphix-video/

    Not sure whether this will be being demonstrated. If it is, a closed loop with a bank of lights and big switch to break the loop if runaway starts to occur would be fairly convincing especially if it can be shown:

    a) there is no (giant!) magnetron present above or below the demo site
    b) there are no hidden wires or “hidden DC” on the wires – better yet, no wires entering the closed system (this would require the 10,000 amp charger to be a part of the system
    c) there is no concentrated energy beam firing a continuous intense beam into the system from outside
    d) there are no unusual (electromagnetic) energy fields that may be focused on the device from outside

    e) there are no hidden mega-capacitors or, if there are mega-capacitors (for current / frequency smoothing), show they are without charge at first (demonstrating this with a simple straight short across the terminals after they have first been shown to be discharged)
    f) the device is not sitting on hidden platform contacts/terminals, preferably sitting on a clear perspex box and, if possible, lifted from the box to demonstrate it is unattached.

    – all suggestions put forward by skeptics over the last three years when it came to considering the various LENR demos that have been held in that time…

    • “We have to build the MHD converter for plasma to electric conversion, the basis of a later public demonstration.” So it would seem that no MHD converter has yet been built, and it is just a theoretical device at present. (Edit: this now confirmed by the Linkedin job ad posted by Admin).

      I guess what we’ll see is a bright plasma discharge a la Ugo Abundo, inside a ported or transparent reactor hooked up to some kind of calorimeter setup, with the usual array of thermometers and meters and a laptop generating graphical plots requiring much theoretical interpretation.

      Donk970’s comment above seems to be pretty much on the ball. As you were, gentlemen (and ladies) – until proven otherwise.

    • Veblin

      The video has a new address as it’s name changed from trialgraphix-video to 10-mw-generator
      http://www.blacklightpower.com/10-mw-generator/

  • Jimr

    Well that was enough to turn me off somewhat. I don’t know why they come out with these comments and then show some minor achievements. I was expecting electrical output in the kilowatt range at min. He most likely has something but it may be another twenty years in the future.

    • Frechette

      You won’t see an MHD (Magnetohydrodynamic) for direct plasma to electricity converter anytime soon. A number of companies among them Westinghouse spent a bundle attempting to develop such a device for years without success. One major problem was the life of the electrodes needed to extract power from the plasma. Materials just wouldn’t last in the high plasma temperatures. Plasma conductance was another issue. To overcome this difficulty sodium seeding was needed which had to be recovered for recycling.

  • Jimr

    Well that was enough to turn me off somewhat. I don’t know why they come out with these comments and then show some minor achievements. I was expecting electrical output in the kilowatt range at min. He most likely has something but it may be another twenty years in the future.

    • Frechette

      You won’t see an MHD (Magnetohydrodynamic) for direct plasma to electricity converter anytime soon. A number of companies among them Westinghouse spent a bundle attempting to develop such a device for years without success. One major problem was the life of the electrodes needed to extract power from the plasma. Materials just wouldn’t last in the high plasma temperatures. Plasma conductance was another issue. To overcome this difficulty sodium seeding was needed which had to be recovered for recycling.

  • Donk970

    I think that progress with the E-Cat and growing public interest is going to cause a number of competitors to jump the gun to keep investors interested. We’re going to see a bunch of these demo’s that show incomplete devices. I still predict that by early 2015 we will see somebody put a working LENR power plant into operation and then the real fun begins.

  • Donk970

    I think that progress with the E-Cat and growing public interest is going to cause a number of competitors to jump the gun to keep investors interested. We’re going to see a bunch of these demo’s that show incomplete devices. I still predict that by early 2015 we will see somebody put a working LENR power plant into operation and then the real fun begins.

  • bachcole

    I went to http://www.blacklightpower.com and started reading: “BlackLight has produced millions of watts of power in a volume that is
    one ten thousandths of a liter corresponding to a power density of over
    an astonishing 10 billion watts per liter.”

    I know that he has confirmation. I know that everyone is excited about Blacklight. But there are so many things wrong with the first sentence that I can’t read any more. 1st, a watt is not a measure of power. A watt/time would be a measure of power. A watt is a measure of energy. My little finger puts out millions of watts of energy, although it has taken 68 years to do it. This makes the “in a volume that is 1/10,000th of a liter” meaningless. And then we have a run-on sentence. And then they (he) just does a little math comes up with another meaningless phrase “a power density of over an astonishing 10 billion watts per liter.” Perhaps Randall Mills wanted his teenage daughter (who is majoring in home ec) write this introductory article. I hope so, or else Randall Mills has flipped his lid.

    • SteveW

      He’s been working on this for over 20 years, burned through 60 million dollars, perhaps has nothing close to commercialization while others are getting close, yes, it’s very possible he’s flipped his lid.

      • Job001

        The small cost by typically successful private investors who provide oversight is a fabulous bargain!
        Think about taxpayer funded billions of dollars for hot fusion and ITER for 60 years that will never deliver economical power assuming LENR succeeds. Losers!

      • Frechette

        Hot fusion has burned through hundreds of billions since the late 1960’s and a working reactor isn’t promised until mid century. How’s that bargain work for ya.

    • Actually I think you confused yourself.

      Watt is the metric unit for power.
      Joule is the metric unit for energy.

      Energy per time is power. For example 1 joule per second is 1 watt.
      Power cannot be summed over time. Running a 5 MW power plant for 10 seconds *DOES NOT* mean you have produced 50 megawatts of power… it means you have produced 50 joules of energy.

      So everything he said makes perfect sense, unit-wise.

      He is claiming a continuous power output of >1 MW (megawatt) from less than a milliliter of water.

      And the power density (in terms of fuel volume) for such a set up is >1 MW / 0.0001 L = >10 GW / L (ten gigawatts per liter).

      The power density in terms of mass is the same because one liter of water equals one kilogram of mass. So the power density (mass) is 10 GW / kg.

      • bachcole

        ?So, is not 1 watt (power) for 1 second = 1 watt/second or 1 joule?

        • Nope.

          1 watt of power for one second is 1 W x 1 s = 1 Watt-second.
          I know this confuses a lot of people. Sometimes you’ll see energy quantities expressed in terms of power-time units. For example, I get my home electric bills in terms of kWh… kilowatt-hours. Power multiplied by time… the total amount of *energy* I’ve used for the month.

          1 joule of energy output over 1 second is one watt of power.
          1 J/s = 1 W. (not 1 W/s = 1 J)
          multiply by 1 second and you get…
          1 J = 1 Ws (1 joule equals 1 watt-second… that’s watt times second not watt per second or watt minus second)

          • bachcole

            Thank you. I think that I got it now. So, a watt is an instantaneous measurement. One watt for one second is one joule. One hundred watts for one hour is 360,000 joules???? I think. Joules is the energy, watts is the power. So, 360,000 joules in one second would be quite a bang; if one’s computer screen did that one would be a crispy critter. (:->)

          • Frechette

            Stated simply total energy consumed for a given period is the time integral of power. That’s what your electric meter measures and that’s how the electric company charges its customers.

        • Frechette

          No it is not. 1 watt for one second is a watt second not 1 watt per second ( 1 watt/second) as you believe. A watt second is one joule which is the energy produced by using 1 watt for 1 second. Big difference.

          • Anon2012_2014

            1 joule/second = 1 watt

            1 watt second = 1 joule

            P = E/t

            P=power (watts)
            E=energy (joules)
            t=time (seconds)

      • PIpmon

        Except that unless I missed it, nowhere does he mention “continuous” generation at the power levels he claims (in the millions of Watts), so that it is impossible to quantify the actual energy produced in his device. Without wanting to bother to do the calculations I would guess that one of those sparks produced from electrostatic discharge when walking across a nylon carpet with my rubber sole shoes is probably in the million Watt range itself! But it only lasts a millionth of a second so the energy transferred is minimal.

        Until Dr. Mills specifies very clearly the duty cycle of his ‘power flashes’ we know nothing.

        • Anon2012_2014

          It’s clear from his patent. He has generated the megawatts for 0.14 milliseconds to get 3,000 joules.

          He takes the megawatts and divides by .0001 liters to get the gigawatts per liter.

          This is a very small scale experiment. I still want to see his calorimetry setup. I think it is less than gasoline/air in energy/liter and energy/kilogram. Don’t know how fast gasoline burns in a car, but when it detonates (explosive supersonic flame front that causes ping), I would bet it burns at about that rate (the whole thing in 1 mS) and that one cylinder head of gasoline is more than 3,000 joules for the brief instant that it is burning.

          The real thing is I want proof it is not chemical. To me this means 10x chemical or even 3x chemical for the reactants in there doing the most exothermic chemical reactions per unit mass or volume.

          I hope BLP has a good proof, but I have insufficient information to say yes or no. There is so much information being presented (300 page patent) that I am not sure. I will say he has a lot of good people working on the right things IF he has the reaction. I hope it is a valid LENR+ proof but I will withhold judgement until I get the information.

    • Gerard McEk

      If he says he is producing 10 MW of power, then he produces every second 10 MJoule of energy, which is equal to 10 MWs. To supply the mentioned households he needs to do this continuously without interruption or ‘pulses’, which is not in the way this process seems to work. If his plasma produces 10 MW during 1 msec, then he needs to flash this plasma 1000 times per second continuously to produce the required 10 MW for the housholds.
      If I look to the drawings of his patent and the description above, then these fuel tablets are about 2 mm high and 4 mm in diameter. With the power density Mills is mentioning, these tablets will be completely vaporized and are unlikely to be regenerated. You are right Bachcole, there seems to be something wrong.

      • I think Mills is claiming that the energy released takes the form of plasma that is then extracted using magnets. It remains to be seen what fraction of the energy is converted to heat and what/if any cooling subsystem is in place to keep the “fuel tablet” from being destroyed. He implies that the heat is not a major factor.

        I guess the “fuel tablet” is where the isolated water molecules are split into monatomic hydrogen (and oxygen) and the hydrino transitions occur. But we don’t really know much about that piece at this point. It’s not really a fuel tablet… it’s just the place where the nascent water (isolated water molecules I believe) gets processed. It should remain unchanged.

        In any case the full up system he envisions involves a lot of energy and a lot of engineering challenges.

        The system he demos might use much more manageable energy output — especially if he plans to show the output plasma directly.

        • Anon2012_2014

          Nascent means newly created. He probably means either

          1) Water newly bonded with hydrinos

          or

          2) Water newly created from H2 or mono-atomic hydrogen.

          I am not saying I believe in hydrinos, but in BLP speak, he believes he is taking monatomic H and transition it to hydrinos with a big high current spark of 20KA per cm^2.

          All his demos and machines then have to have monatomic H in a state that a big current gives him the results he needs to get the hydrino transition with the resulting energy release.

          One patent shows a film of NiOOH. I am assuming this is nickel oxide with a paste of hydroxide. The big spark then converts this supposedly to energy in a flash that he measures the heat by the heat required to vaporize the NiOOH plus a nickel mesh screen used to support the NiOOH. Some better chemist than me can compute the heat of combustion or reaction by burning/reacting these elements with (nitrogen and oxygen).

          He has a later experiment in the patent with actual calorimetry. The energy densities again don’t look higher than chemical (gasoline in air).

          I want to see what he demos. If he has a reliable way to make the energy that is not chemical and cheaper than natural gas (or free as he thinks), he can find a way to engineer this into a magnetohydrodynamic electric generator. That part is easy. He has a resume search out for a Ph.D. to do this. Should be plenty of escapee from the princeton plasma physics lab.

          • What I got out of the significance of “nascent” H2O was that water normally has a bunch of hydrogen bonds (the bonds that make it sticky to itself and clump in drops) and that these hydrogen bonds prevent the hydrino transition process.

            So the nascent H2O is a newly formed (at the anode) H2O molecule isolated from other water molecules, free from those troublesome hydrogen bonds with other H2O molecules. That new, isolated water molecule somehow acts as a catalyst for a lone hydrogen atom to undergo the transition from regular hydrogen to a hydrino.

            They describe the process here:
            http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/ciht-cell/

      • bachcole

        I post here and elsewhere scores of comments every day. There is nary a grammatical or spelling or understanding error in a single one of my comments. I re-read my comments several times to make sure that they are right. I know that some people read my comments; I know that some people don’t read my comments. In either case I know that they delete my comments and that is the end of them. I have no illusions that any of my comments will end up in a picture frame in the Library of Congress. But Randall Mills has a website whose leading article announces a World and company saving presentation on the 28th of January, which could actually end up in a picture frame in the Library of Congress, and yet the piece is a freaking mess. It is covered with mistakes and grammar problems and understandability problems. It reads like what my 14 year old son would write, and he got a ‘C’ in English. It doesn’t make any sense that Dr. Mills would do this. Perhaps I am just making too much out of this.

    • LilyLover

      Usually, you have good intentions and good heart but this is why people cannot take you more seriously. That BLP sentence has much more significance than you are willing to assimilate. If science is not your forte, here is social proof your style – Read his 3 free books; or at least see pics in the books. If he can write all that without errors, he’s NOT gonna make mistakes on his web-page.

    • Frechette

      Wrong! A watt is indeed a measure of power. A watt x time is a measure of energy. Thus a watt hour or watt second is energy and power is the rate of doing work or the rate of use of energy.
      P=E/t where P is power in watts, E is energy in joules and t is time in seconds in the MKS system of units.

  • wayne

    The ONLY question I would have asked is … “Are you going to bring this to market now or in 20 years?”. I believe they have something. I believe Rossi has something. The Rossi device was flawed in 2011 as it was not stable. Is this device flawed? We do not know.

    So the only question we want to know (I speak for many in this I believe) is “Is this going to be a historic day where it is unleashed to the world”, or is it going to be a “an unbelievable demo among a series that will last several decades.”.

    • LENR G

      There’s two main scenarios, right?

      The cynical scenario is that having bilked unwary investors out of tens of millions of dollars, time appears to be growing short to extract more money from idiots due to the impending commercialization of LENR+. So he felt it was time to go big with big claims about a perfect energy source and put on one last show. The cynical scenario is supported by the facts that he has promised commercialization at several points before and has been developing this technology for a loooong time. Yet still no products. Plus nobody else believes in hydrinos.

      The optimistic scenario is that they were on the verge of commercialization before but recently had some breakthroughs that took their borderline acceptable COPs and energy levels into the stratosphere. And so they stayed in the lab to perfect this ultimate energy source over the past few years. Now LENR+ has forced their hand and perhaps they are going public a bit before they would have liked. The optimistic scenario is supported by isolated independent validations of both energy output and hydrino existence by a couple of companies and one university in NJ.

      I think a live demo is kind of a really bad idea in isolation. Maybe if it’s accompanied by a full court public relations effort and at a minimum open access to world scientists that could vouch for it… then OK. But if it’s just put on a show, get some investment money and then sink back into their labs then that’s unacceptable and to me at least would indicate fraud in this case.

      • Sandy

        “The cynical scenario is that having bilked unwary investors out of tens of millions of dollars, time appears to be growing short to extract more money from idiots due to the impending commercialization of LENR+.”

        Your “cynical scenario” is right on target.

        • LENR G

          You know what they say about opinions, right?

          I’m looking for compelling evidence in either direction with an open mind.

  • ecatworld

    This is from LinkedIn — BLP is looking to hire someone to build the MHD Converter that Mills refers to in the answer above.

    http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/10738281

    Director, Plasma-to-Electric Conversion Program

    BlackLight Power, Inc. – Greater New York City Area

    Posted 42 days ago

    Provides expertise in the detailed characterization of its chemically-driven plasma, as well as leadership in the analysis, design, and development of a plasma-to-electric conversion prototype. A non-comprehensive list of major responsibilities and objectives follows.

    Measurement of plasma electron temperature and density for various plasma cell configurations, pressures, driving potentials, catalysts, and ion types, by probe or spectroscopic techniques. Includes design and fabrication or procurement of necessary diagnostic instrumentation and equipment. Work is to be carried out in collaboration with other staff, as well as external consultants and contractors.

    Design and development of plasma-to-electric power conversion prototype. Converter may be based on MHD, plasmadynamic, magnetic, or electrostatic processes. Simulation of plasma behavior in electric/magnetic field possibly including ion transport (MHD) and space charge limitations (plasmadynamic converter). May also include analysis and design of transverse (to the particle stream) magnetic field for charge separation and development of electrode system (MHD). Work is to be carried out in collaboration with other staff, external consultants, and contractors.

    Leadership in the process of prototype scale-up/evolution and optimization through development and production of commercial device. In collaboration with staff and contractors.

    Participation in long-range projects with power applications in micro-distributed and premium power, motive, aerospace, etc.

    This position reports to the President.

    • LENR G

      Either a very detailed nuance to support a colossal scam… or a real position for a real company working on a real technology breakthrough.

      • jonnyb

        Mike McKubre interview I think (memory is poor) mentioned BLP as one of the 4 main LENR players, he also mentioned, i think, that he had done some tests on a BLP set up and that there were no major flaws with their process. He also says that all 4 should collaborate, so is he saying the effect is one and the same? Unless all these people are in on the scam I think it is just time for patience.

    • ecatworld

      I just noticed that there is a note above this job posting saying “this job is no longer accepting applications”, so maybe they have filled the position, or have gotten a sufficient pool of candidates.

      • LENR G

        Maybe our Linked-In sleuths can put together a roster of BlackLight employees?

        How big are they? How many people would have to be in on the scam? What do their career histories look like?

        On edit: from their web site: “Currently, the Company has twenty employees and fourteen consultants. The majority of employees are scientists and engineers, including six Ph.D.s.” It’d be nice to confirm that and would reduce the probability of fraud considerably if true.

  • wayne

    The ONLY question I would have asked is … “Are you going to bring this to market now or in 20 years?”. I believe they have something. I believe Rossi has something. The Rossi device was flawed in 2011 as it was not stable. Is this device flawed? We do not know.

    So the only question we want to know (I speak for many in this I believe) is “Is this going to be a historic day where it is unleashed to the world”, or is it going to be a “an unbelievable demo among a series that will last several decades.”.

    • There’s two main scenarios, right?

      The cynical scenario is that having bilked unwary investors out of tens of millions of dollars, time appears to be growing short to extract more money from idiots due to the impending commercialization of LENR+. So he felt it was time to go big with big claims about a perfect energy source and put on one last show. The cynical scenario is supported by the facts that he has promised commercialization at several points before and has been developing this technology for a loooong time. Yet still no products. Plus nobody else believes in hydrinos.

      The optimistic scenario is that they were on the verge of commercialization before but recently had some breakthroughs that took their borderline acceptable COPs and energy levels into the stratosphere. And so they stayed in the lab to perfect this ultimate energy source over the past few years. Now LENR+ has forced their hand and perhaps they are going public a bit before they would have liked. The optimistic scenario is supported by isolated independent validations of both energy output and hydrino existence by a couple of companies and one university in NJ.

      I think a live demo is kind of a really bad idea in isolation. Maybe if it’s accompanied by a full court public relations effort and at a minimum open access to world scientists that could vouch for it… then OK. But if it’s just put on a show, get some investment money and then sink back into their labs then that’s unacceptable and to me at least would indicate fraud in this case.

      • Sandy

        “The cynical scenario is that having bilked unwary investors out of tens of millions of dollars, time appears to be growing short to extract more money from idiots due to the impending commercialization of LENR+.”

        Your “cynical scenario” is right on target.

        • You know what they say about opinions, right?

          I’m looking for compelling evidence in either direction with an open mind.

  • Frank Acland

    This is from LinkedIn — BLP is looking to hire someone to build the MHD Converter that Mills refers to in the answer above.

    http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/10738281

    Director, Plasma-to-Electric Conversion Program

    BlackLight Power, Inc. – Greater New York City Area

    Posted 42 days ago

    Provides expertise in the detailed characterization of its chemically-driven plasma, as well as leadership in the analysis, design, and development of a plasma-to-electric conversion prototype. A non-comprehensive list of major responsibilities and objectives follows.

    Measurement of plasma electron temperature and density for various plasma cell configurations, pressures, driving potentials, catalysts, and ion types, by probe or spectroscopic techniques. Includes design and fabrication or procurement of necessary diagnostic instrumentation and equipment. Work is to be carried out in collaboration with other staff, as well as external consultants and contractors.

    Design and development of plasma-to-electric power conversion prototype. Converter may be based on MHD, plasmadynamic, magnetic, or electrostatic processes. Simulation of plasma behavior in electric/magnetic field possibly including ion transport (MHD) and space charge limitations (plasmadynamic converter). May also include analysis and design of transverse (to the particle stream) magnetic field for charge separation and development of electrode system (MHD). Work is to be carried out in collaboration with other staff, external consultants, and contractors.

    Leadership in the process of prototype scale-up/evolution and optimization through development and production of commercial device. In collaboration with staff and contractors.

    Participation in long-range projects with power applications in micro-distributed and premium power, motive, aerospace, etc.

    This position reports to the President.

    • Either a very detailed nuance to support a colossal scam… or a real position for a real company working on a real technology breakthrough.

      • jonnyb

        Mike McKubre interview I think (memory is poor) mentioned BLP as one of the 4 main LENR players, he also mentioned, i think, that he had done some tests on a BLP set up and that there were no major flaws with their process. He also says that all 4 should collaborate, so is he saying the effect is one and the same? Unless all these people are in on the scam I think it is just time for patience.

    • Frank Acland

      I just noticed that there is a note above this job posting saying “this job is no longer accepting applications”, so maybe they have filled the position, or have gotten a sufficient pool of candidates.

      • Maybe our Linked-In sleuths can put together a roster of BlackLight employees?

        How big are they? How many people would have to be in on the scam? What do their career histories look like?

        On edit: from their web site: “Currently, the Company has twenty employees and fourteen consultants. The majority of employees are scientists and engineers, including six Ph.D.s.” It’d be nice to confirm that and would reduce the probability of fraud considerably if true.

    • Blacklight Power also advertised for personnel when the six validation reports were published on May 22, 2012. The consultants suggested BLP hire a ceramics engineer, and that was one of the jobs BLP advertised.

  • Christopher Calder

    Too bad they were not more careful in their original press release. If they had already gotten to the stage of producing megawatt amounts of electricity, that would be easy to measure and confirm. Any measuring of energy inputs and plasma output levels using calorimetry techniques will be an easy target for critics. The Perkin Elmer claim gives it credibility, but only if someone from Perkin Elmer shows up and verifies that claim. I am hopeful, but this would have been a much bigger news event if they actually produced electricity.

  • Too bad they were not more careful in their original press release. If they had already gotten to the stage of producing megawatt amounts of electricity, that would be easy to measure and confirm. Any measuring of energy inputs and plasma output levels using calorimetry techniques will be an easy target for critics. The Perkin Elmer claim gives it credibility, but only if someone from Perkin Elmer shows up and verifies that claim. I am hopeful, but this would have been a much bigger news event if they actually produced electricity.

  • JDM

    When the 10MW MHD converter is developed,just use that to harness plentiful LIGHTNING and forget about all that expensive stuff on the front end! A 10MW plasma will be about a useful as a lightning bolt, eh Frankenstein?

  • SteveW

    I did a search and found that Black-Light power has a paper titled “Direct Plasmadynamic Conversion of Plasma Thermal Power to Electricity for Microdistributed Power Applications”. I believe this paper describes the MHD converter. It’s not a patent, but sometimes companies disclose things so that others can’t patent them- they may believe it’s prior art and not want to bother trying to get a patent on it but to just make sure no one else down the road tries to patent it and ends up blocking their own product.

    To me this is looking more like this was rushed through in a hurry. If they actually have a device that they claim, there’s no way the government would allow them to release it into the marketplace- is this the reason for the rush. Mills now sounds kind of nuts- did someone get to him over the past couple of days?

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/PDC%20for%20PSConf%20paper.pdf

  • SteveW

    I did a search and found that Black-Light power has a paper titled “Direct Plasmadynamic Conversion of Plasma Thermal Power to Electricity for Microdistributed Power Applications”. I believe this paper describes the MHD converter. It’s not a patent, but sometimes companies disclose things so that others can’t patent them- they may believe it’s prior art and not want to bother trying to get a patent on it but to just make sure no one else down the road tries to patent it and ends up blocking their own product.

    To me this is looking more like this was rushed through in a hurry. If they actually have a device that they claim, there’s no way the government would allow them to release it into the marketplace- is this the reason for the rush. Mills now sounds kind of nuts- did someone get to him over the past couple of days?

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/PDC%20for%20PSConf%20paper.pdf

  • cx

    BLP is so uneven. What happened to the 100w and 1.5kw devices that they were planning to release from 2012 and 2013. Feels like we are going in circles. In the previous press release with the validation reports from 2012 they said.
    “A 100 W unit is planned for completion by the end of 2012, and a 1.5
    kilowatt (kW) pilot unit that can serve the residential power market, as
    an initial target commercial application, is expected to be operational
    by 2013”
    What happened to those. Now another string of validation reports and new plans :/
    http://www.examiner.com/article/electricity-generated-from-water-blacklight-power-announces-validation

    • Yes, I share this concern. He has made it very hard to take them at their word regarding their plans. If I want to give them the benefit of the doubt I can sort of explain it away by two factors: their leader is enamored with theory and in particular his own theory, with applications a distant second… and second, they perhaps reached several plateaus in research where they figured it was time to commercialize only to have a breakthrough that would obsolete what was on the drawing board.

      But on that front they appear to have reached the end of the line. What they are claiming right now — well there’s no reason to improve on it (in the short run). It’s terrific. Just turn it loose, BlackLight. That’s why I say if they disappear again after this demo then they are not what they claim to be. Such behavior would be forgoing billions of dollars of revenue, fame and fortune plus an immeasurable amount of benefit for all mankind.

      So it’s now or never for BlackLight with these claims. The demo won’t *prove* anything. But their behavior subsequent will be the ballgame.

    • Job001

      LENR companies have, IMO, recognized the first market niche is utility power level because of safety compliance, engineering, IP control, marketing, risk insurance, and profitable customer acceptance.
      BLP and E-cat may have bench top units, IMO, but cannot market them yet.

  • Sandy

    The “Patent Application” posted at http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/Power%20Generation%20Systems%20and%20Methods%20Patent%20Application.pdf contains an un-numbered page titled “ABSTRACT”. The paragraph below that title is pure gobbledygook. It was obviously not written by a competent patent attorney. At this point, I am inclined to regard Blacklight’s “Patent Application” as a silly hoax.

    The un-numbered page titled “ABSTRACT” is below the page numbered “283”.

    • LENR G

      Seems like standard patent-ese to me. Mostly it just describes a generic energy production and conversion device. they key part is

      “(i) at least one reaction cell for the catalysis of atomic hydrogen to form hydrinos”

      That makes it unique and would protect his IP if hydrinos are real.

  • Sandy

    The “Patent Application” posted at http://www.blacklightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/presentations/Power%20Generation%20Systems%20and%20Methods%20Patent%20Application.pdf contains an un-numbered page titled “ABSTRACT”. The paragraph below that title is pure gobbledygook. It was obviously not written by a competent patent attorney. At this point, I am inclined to regard Blacklight’s “Patent Application” as a silly hoax.

    The un-numbered page titled “ABSTRACT” is below the page numbered “283”.

    • SteveW

      I see nothing wrong with it- that’s how abstracts are written.

    • Seems like standard patent-ese to me. Mostly it just describes a generic energy production and conversion device. The key part is

      “(i) at least one reaction cell for the catalysis of atomic hydrogen to form hydrinos”

      That makes it unique and would protect his IP if hydrinos are real.

  • Sanjeev

    Ok so this demo will not be convincing, no body likes calorimeters 🙂
    At least they should do a control run else it will be totally useless. The device looks complicated, so it will be a low hanging fruit for the “hidden cable or battery” crowd. You will see some numbers pop up on some screen, leave it or take it.
    A demo is never meant to show any truths, its not a test. Although many people know this distinction, the hopes were driven high by the language used for the announcement. “Millions of watts powering thousands of homes” is surely more attractive than simple “1MW heat using a calorimeter”. So I would guess its purpose is to get more investors.

  • Sanjeev

    Ok so this demo will not be convincing, no body likes calorimeters 🙂
    At least they should do a control run else it will be totally useless. The device looks complicated, so it will be a low hanging fruit for the “hidden cable or battery” crowd. You will see some numbers pop up on some screen, leave it or take it.
    A demo is never meant to show any truths, its not a test. Although many people know this distinction, the hopes were driven high by the language used for the announcement. “Millions of watts powering thousands of homes” is surely more attractive than simple “1MW heat using a calorimeter”. So I would guess its purpose is to get more investors.

  • Job001

    What are nay-sayers and typically lazy (not an insult) scam callers worried about?
    It’s not your money, it is OPM!

    Small research efforts are low cost typically private smart million dollar OPM money projects which are more likely to succeed quicker.

    Huge ITER like projects(or political projects Solyndra) with billion and trillion dollar budgets are funded by taxpayers losers which are more likely boondoggles.

    Think about it.

    LENR is not funded by taxpayer Losers! Cool!

    Hooray, LENR is more likely to soon succeed – with private OPM oversight!

  • Job001

    What are nay-sayers and typically lazy (not an insult) scam callers worried about?
    It’s not your money, it is OPM!

    Small research efforts are low cost typically private smart million dollar OPM money projects which are more likely to succeed quicker.

    Huge ITER like projects(or political projects Solyndra) with billion and trillion dollar budgets are funded by taxpayers losers which are more likely boondoggles.

    Think about it.

    LENR is not funded by taxpayer Losers! Cool!

    Hooray, LENR is more likely to soon succeed – with private OPM oversight!

  • Sandy

    “BlackLight Power Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Conectiv Solutions LLC.”

    http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=61802124

    Click on “Detailed Description” to see the full “Company Overview”.

    Who controls Conectiv Solutions LLC?

    • Holy moly, it’s PEPCO.

      Pepco Holdings owns…
      Conectiv LLC owns…
      Conectiv Solutions owns…
      BlackLight Power

      On edit: the extent of Conectiv Solution’s ownership of BlackLight Power is in question. One chart shows it as < 1%.

      • Bertuswonkel

        Interesting, so basically the company BL has already been sold to PEPCO?

        Wiki on Subsidiary:
        A subsidiary, subsidiary company, daughter company, or sister company is a company that is completely or partly owned by another corporation that owns more than half of the subsidiary’s stock, and which normally acting as a holding corporation which at least partly or (when as) a parent corporation, wholly controls the activities and policies of the daughter corporation.

        So Mills cannot do anything important without approval of PEPCO?

      • Fastbuck

        If you look at the chart you will see Connectiv Solutions owns < 1% of Blacklight Power LLC.

  • Sandy

    “BlackLight Power Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Conectiv Solutions LLC.” http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=61802124
    Click on “Detailed Description” to see the full “Company Overview”.

    • LENR G

      MAJOR CONNECTION ALERT.

      Pepco Holdings controls BlackLight Power.

      Pepco Holdings is basically Pepco. a major power supplier on the East Coast
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepco_Holdings

      Pepco Holdings owns Connctiv LLC which in turn owns Connectiv Solutions LLC.

      All of them have businessweek profiles.

      • ecatworld

        Very interesting, LENRG — Pepco Holdings is a public company traded on the New York Stock Exchange — symbol is POM

        http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=POM+Interactive#symbol=POM;range=1d

      • Buck

        Here is the Org Chart that outlines the whole chain of ownership

        LINK>> http://www.pepcoholdings.com/_res/documents/phiorgchart123107.pdf

        • ecatworld

          The chart lists BlackLight power as a Partially-owned LLC/Partnership/J.V.

          • Sandy

            BlackLight Power Inc. is a corporation. Since BLP is not an LLC or a partnership, we might therefore conclude that BLP has entered into a joint venture (J.V.) with Conectiv Solutions LLC.

            And we can ask, “Who owns the other 99% of BLP stock?” BLP is not listed on the NYSE. Does Pepco Holdings directly own any of that stock?

        • LENR G

          Nice find. Businessweek says that Blacklight Power operates as a subsidiary to Connectiv Solutions LLC. That chart seems to indicate that Connectiv Solutions only owns <1% of Blacklight Power (if that's what that number means). So perhaps I've overstated the connection.

          • Buck

            The benefits of the connection still hold water. If BLP can physically demonstrate a 1-100MW scale device, Pepco will be at the front of the line when the negotiations commence. They just must exercise caution about being too demanding as BLP can talk to anyone, despite the fact that Pepco would be low hanging fruit with the direct access to the power market and $5B in revenue.

          • LENR G

            Yeah they would seem to have an open communication channel at the very least. It’d be hard for Pepco to ignore what one of their own (partial?) subsidiaries was doing.

          • Bertuswonkel

            Still, subsidiary means owned by someone else. If BL is not owned by PEPCO some other entity ,with at least 31 million to spare, must have bought a majority stake. Businessweek could also be wrong and they still make independent decisions.

        • cx

          that chart says Conectiv not Connectiv like Sandy says I think we are mixing up companies.

          • Buck

            One thing is certain, questions of spelling aside, BLP is included on the Pepco Holdings org chart as a <1% owned entity.

          • cx

            opps i mixed up what it said on investment site. This is a pretty interesting development. Has that info always been there O_o

      • LENR G

        This changes things. BlackLight doesn’t really need to convince anyone of jack.

        If they have what they say it’s a simple demo to the Pepco bigwigs plus confirmation from Pepco’s lead scientists (which BlackLight could not or would not block), followed by massive investment by Pepco and rapid deployment all along the East Coast because Pepco would be stupid not to.

        28 Jan just got a lot more interesting.

      • Sandy

        Connectiv Solutions LLC (of Florida; connectivsolutions.com) should not be confused with Conectiv Solutions LLC (organized in Delaware).

        “Conectiv Solutions LLC operates as a subsidiary of Conectiv LLC.” http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=6686437

  • Sandy

    “BlackLight Power Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Conectiv Solutions LLC.” http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=61802124
    Click on “Detailed Description” to see the full “Company Overview”.

    • MAJOR CONNECTION ALERT.

      Pepco Holdings controls BlackLight Power.

      Pepco Holdings is basically Pepco, a major power supplier on the East Coast
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepco_Holdings

      Pepco Holdings owns Conectiv LLC which in turn owns Conectiv Solutions LLC.

      All of them have businessweek profiles.

      • Frank Acland

        Very interesting, LENRG — Pepco Holdings is a public company traded on the New York Stock Exchange — symbol is POM

        http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=POM+Interactive#symbol=POM;range=1d

      • Buck

        Here is the Pepco Holdings Org Chart that outlines the whole chain of ownership

        LINK>> http://www.pepcoholdings.com/_res/documents/phiorgchart123107.pdf

        • Frank Acland

          The chart lists BlackLight power as a Partially-owned LLC/Partnership/J.V.

          • Sandy

            BlackLight Power Inc. is a corporation. Since BLP is not an LLC or a partnership, we might therefore conclude that BLP has entered into a joint venture (J.V.) with Conectiv Solutions LLC.

            And we can ask, “Who owns the other 99% of BLP stock?” BLP is not listed on the NYSE. Does Pepco Holdings directly own any of that stock?

        • Nice find. Businessweek says that Blacklight Power operates as a subsidiary to Conectiv Solutions LLC. That chart seems to indicate that Conectiv Solutions only owns <1% of Blacklight Power (if that's what that number means). So perhaps I've overstated the connection.

          • Buck

            The benefits of the connection still hold water. If BLP can physically demonstrate a 1-100MW scale device, Pepco will be at the front of the line when the negotiations commence. They just must exercise caution about being too demanding as BLP can talk to anyone, despite the fact that Pepco would be low hanging fruit with the direct access to the power market and $5B in revenue.

          • Yeah they would seem to have an open communication channel at the very least. It’d be hard for Pepco to ignore what their own (partial?) subsidiary was doing.

          • Bertuswonkel

            Still, subsidiary means owned by someone else. If BL is not owned by PEPCO some other entity ,with at least 31 million to spare, must have bought a majority stake. Businessweek could also be wrong and they still make independent decisions.

          • Guesst

            The organization chart says it was updated 12/31/09. Things may have changed after that.

            And even if PEPCO still would own a minority of BLP, it would probably have an option to acquire the rest. Even small, minority investements of this kind always come with some strings attached.

        • bachcole

          So, less than 1% means that they have Blacklight’s phone number in their Rolodex. Perhaps they will even show for the demo. If the demo is good, things could get interesting. If not, . . . . . .

        • cx

          that chart says Conectiv not Connectiv like Sandy says I think we are mixing up companies.

          • Guest

            One thing is certain, questions of spelling aside, BLP is included on the Pepco Holdings org chart as a <1% owned entity.

          • cx

            opps i mixed up what it said on investment site. This is a pretty interesting development. Has that info always been there O_o

      • This changes things. BlackLight doesn’t really need to convince anyone of jack.

        If they have what they say it’s a simple demo to the Pepco bigwigs plus confirmation from Pepco’s lead scientists (which BlackLight could not or would not block), followed by massive investment by Pepco and rapid deployment all along the East Coast because Pepco would be stupid not to.

        28 Jan just got a lot more interesting.

      • SteveW

        Finally, after 3 years of following LENR, there is actually something to invest in!

      • SteveW

        Mr. Moho, are you considering an investment in Pepco?

      • Sandy

        Connectiv Solutions LLC (of Florida; connectivsolutions.com) should not be confused with Conectiv Solutions LLC (organized in Delaware).

        “Conectiv Solutions LLC operates as a subsidiary of Conectiv LLC.” http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=6686437

      • winebuff

        They basically own a black hole where money goes in and nothing ever comes out.

  • Kim

    That is about 2 drops of water = 1 million watts.

    Respect
    Kim

  • Christina

    Frank,

    Have you ever heard of http://www.thevenusproject.com. I tried to tell them about your web site and the computer said I was a computer contacting them or something silly like that (Were I a computer, I would certainly arrange for better health than I have now. 😉 )

    Mr. Jacque Fresco has developed a plan, using only recyclable energy, for living in a moneyless society, spreading resources where they are needed, and feeding and housing everyone in the world where everyone in the world would have more free time than they know what to do with unless they do what they really enjoy, what excites their imagination and fulfills them.

    His plans include some fantastic ways to build houses (before the discovery of new products like graphene) and make energy from wind, sun, and waves. Imagine what could be done with LENR.

    He believes that everyone in the world can have a more comfortable life than even today’s rich. The only thing is we must give up money and be willing to live in communities where our own food is grown on the ground and in buildings with robotic help; every aspect of the city, whether it’s on land, on the sea, or under the sea, is run by computers so that vehicles don’t collide and people are comfortable.

    I presume if the oil barons and those who are politicians saw this plan and then learned bout LENR, they’d be greatly worried.

    Sorry to bother you if you’ve heard about this.

    Have a great day and may God bless you and yours.

    • Frank Acland

      Hi Christina, yes I have heard of the Venus Project, but it’s been a while since I looked into it. Last time I did any reading about it there was some kind of schism going on in the organization surrounding it — I think it’s called the Zeitgeist movement. Not sure how that all turned out.

      • The Venus Project and Zeitgueist Movement was a happy marriage at the beginning, then was a ego problem between jack fresco and peter joseph the split apart. That´s all . And sorry to say this true to our happy believers, “The problem of our society is that the human dont know how to relate to each other human”, is a egoistic problem is not a problem of resources or technology. When the humans start to behavier like human cells, all the problems will be resolved in no time. The human cells work for all other billions of human cells, when human cells work for himself is called CANCER. source: http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5519/australian-tzm-member-david-zwolski-upsetsSthe-leaders-of-tz/#reply-bd9de4db

    • Sandy

      The planned society envisioned by Mr. Fresco is less likely to come into existence if LENR technologies give individuals and families independence from the national electric grid. With LENR, they will be able to live in remote places, far away from the crime and corruption of big cities.

      Mr. Fresco’s grand social design will become obsolete (even though his designs are beautiful).

      • georgehants

        Sandy, You said “far away from the crime and corruption of big cities.” are you suggesting just leaving the big city’s to rot or would Mr. Fresco’s ideas still be useful.

        • Sandy

          The problem with Mr. Fresco’s grand designs is that they require big government, and big governments degenerate into criminal syndicates (I know this from personal experience). To the extend that Mr. Fresco’s designs can be implemented by private companies, his designs may be useful.

          • georgehants

            Sorry Sandy, I did not look up Mr Fresco and assumed he was suggesting some good system.
            So the big city’s would still need a new, good system for people to thrive and enjoy life.
            Best to you.

        • Sandy

          As I wrote before, “big governments degenerate into criminal syndicates”. For an example, see
          “Nations Largest Cocaine Smuggler Revealed: The DEA” [U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration]
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbGaWSXfbWk

          • Christina

            I agree that big government can be horrible, but Mr. Fresco states on http://www.thevenusproject.com that computers would be running the cities and neighborhoods would decide what happens in their neighborhood.

            The robots would repair themselves, so theoretically, at least, no politicking would be involved. It’s a system that should be considered, especially for the part of the world that is now poor and for us. I’d like to have park surroundings near where I live.

      • Christina

        Perhaps you are right, but it seems that the Federal government and the states own most of the unused land, so were will people go? Besides, most people want some kind of community, for example, churches, schooling, work, not to mention hospitals and doctors–all close by. If everyone is gone from the cities, where will these be located?

        Do all these people want to live in other countries? Perhaps at first that would be fortuitous to the world’s poor because the frontal wave of of first-world people would most hopefully help the extremely poor people of the poor nations with the implementation of using LENR for clean water, then food production, then reasonable weather-resistant, earthquake-resistant housing, and of course, help in catching up educationally.

        I am sorry, but I disagree with you, Sandy. Mr. Fresco’s design is becoming relevant for most of the poor world and perhaps the first world too.

        Have a good day, Sandy, and may God bless you.

        • Christina

          Please note “The robot farmers are coming” on http://www.buildtheenterprise.org right now.

          • Otto1923

            Ahaahaaa this is like traveling to mars on a rose bowl parade float.

        • Sandy

          Two-hundred years ago, most people lived on farms. LENR technologies will allow people to live on farms that have all of the modern electric conveniences, including an electric automobile that could get them to and from a small town now and then. I would live on an all-electric farm if I had that choice. That would be a much healthier way to live.

          • Christina

            No, thanks. We had a vegetable garden when I was very little. I still don’t like worms, slugs, ants, etc. I’d just rather buy cleaned produce at the store; I know I’m not alone. Of course, the robotic farming equipment may eventually/now? take care of that too?

            I think we should build the “Venus” cities eventually and also the farms that you want. However, it is much more efficient to farm in buildings and that is supposedly what we’ll need to feed the 9 billion humans purported to be around by 2050.

            It would be healthier to live in cities that are free of car exhaust where all pollution is gone!

          • GreenWin

            Oddly, if you live in a VR environment all the icky stuff in soil, worms, slugs, ants, moles, fungi are expunged. Same in VR lakes and oceans. VR programmers rarely bother to add microbial and small life form code to their habitat routines. The result probably of commercial/academic game design.

          • GreenWin

            You can do that now Sandy. Provided the farm is on the grid. Th Rural Electrification Act spent billions to try to guarantee electric service to even the most remote farming communities. LENR will make it far less expensive to run the farm and the EV.

  • ecatworld

    Hi Christina, yes I have heard of the Venus Project, but it’s been a while since I looked into it. Last time I did any reading about it there was some kind of schism going on in the organization surrounding it — I think it’s called the Zeitgeist movement. Not sure how that all turned out.

    • Elisha Bentzi

      The Venus Project and Zeitgueist Movement was a happy marriage at the beginning, then was a ego problem between jack fresco and peter joseph the split apart. That´s all . And sorry to say this true to our happy believers, “The problem of our society is that the human dont know how to relate to each other human”, is a egoistic problem is not a problem of resources or technology. When the humans start to behavier like human cells, all the problems will be resolved in no time. The human cells work for all other billions of human cells, when human cells work for himself is called CANCER. source: http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/5519/australian-tzm-member-david-zwolski-upsetsSthe-leaders-of-tz/#reply-bd9de4db

  • Job001

    Na, same old stuff, professor says 24 hours, detail doesn’t show insulation, and concrete takes 3 days to build to 90% strength. Needs real builder doing and selling it.

  • Oceans2014

    It could very well be that Rossi and Brillouin have spooked Blackwaterpower into a DEMO > and in reality they are not ready to come to market for years, we have seen it a hundred times, I do not believe Blackwaterpower is ready for the market and the DEMO will prove this in two weeks, “Blackwater will NOT prove they are ready for market” – you heard it here first !

    • Daniel Maris

      OK Oceans – kudos to you if you are proved right on 28th Jan!

  • SteveW

    If this thing puts out 10 million watts of power in a device less than 1 cubic foot, all that energy has to go somewhere. The MHD converter used to convert the output plasma to electricity, which supposedly has yet to be built would have to be nearly 100% efficient since anything not converted to electricity would end up as heat. If you could imagine this device puts out enough energy to power 10,000 space heaters at 1,000 watts each, if it was even 95% efficient, it would still be producing 500,0000 watts of heat that would have to be dissipated (imagine 500 space heaters crammed into 1 cubic foot). I know it has a coolant line, but it seems pretty small and I don’t think it’s designed to cool that part of the reactor.

    • Wholewitt

      Exactly Steve, something doesn’t add up for such a small volume. We should be skeptical until we see a real device powering those 10,000 homes. I’ll bet its a lot bigger than a few cubic feet and the power has to be converted to high voltage AC from something (DC?). Still, I hope for the best.

  • Curbina

    When I saw MHD plasma to electricity then I thought that this is not going to go anywhere. Ask Dr. Jean Pierre Petit: “Been There, Done That”. Petit says he is the single civil MHD specialist. All the others are under DoD programs. Plasma to electricity was popular in the 60s.

    • Curbina

      http://www.jp-petit.org/science/mhd/m_mhd_e/m_mhd_e.htm this link has a summary of the MHD articles by Dr. Jean Pierr Petit. You can see the section of Plasma to Electricity conversion.

    • Job001

      It may be simpler than we think, nearly free energy does not require extremely high recovery efficiency so extreme optimization and higher capital cost should not be required.

      • Curbina

        The catch here is that the reaction already produces moving plasma, so it’s kind of straight forward to use MHD conversion. The problem is that MHD is a gateway to many other things that defense departments will try to keep top secret.

    • GreenWin

      Keep in mind that Mills’ work with DOD can be traced back to 1991 and his excess heat work for USAF Wright Patterson, Ohio. MHD also seems to appear in the NASA GRC thermoacoustic Stirling “engine” as a commercial CHP system announced by Nirvana Energy as ‘TAPS.” http://www.nirvana-es.com/technology.html

      • Curbina

        Well, thanks for that, I was not aware that Mills worked under DoD. All of MHS projects ar not only DoD but top secret, so he might have learnt a thing or two that he wanted to bring to the civilian world. Almost the same that has bee doing Ruggero Santilli with his “partial form of fusion that is produced by a strong plasma field”… So, at least Mills is not the only one that claims that you can get energy from reducing the diameter of electrons orbit in the hydrogen atom. I will insist that both Mills and Santilli are talking about the same phenomena with different names. IMHO, two unrelated persons talking about the same phenomena it’s a tell tale that the phenomena is real. Santilli develiopped these ideas when working in secret programs for the DoE.

  • Oceans2014

    Black Light Power has been around for years, I don’t think it is a coincidence that the huge news that Rossi partnered up Cherokee – a billion dollar fund – has ruffled feathers of stock holders at Black Light Power, after all they have spent 60 million and few have seen a working black light product … we can almost be 99% certain that the “Demo” will not SHOW PROOF of CONCEPT, no one has ever done this and Black Light Power will not be the first, Rossi will probably beat them all.

    • bachcole

      I will go to my grave believing that the May 2013 Levi Essen et. al. report is proof of concept.

      • Daniel Maris

        It’s a reasonable belief but can’t be claimed as a firm fact, I would say.

    • Daniel Maris

      You may be right. But let’s give them a chance.

  • wayne

    I would only ask 1 question.

    – Is this product ready for market now, or will it be another 25 years?

    The questions this interviewer asked can be gleened from already published info.

    – Is he serious this time?

    I wish somebody would ask him this.

    • Daniel Maris

      Yes, I agree. Time for some straight talking.

  • wayne

    I would only ask 1 question.

    – Is this product ready for market now, or will it be another 25 years?

    The questions this interviewer asked can be gleened from already published info.

    – Is he serious this time?

    I wish somebody would ask him this.

  • LCD

    “The identity of the dark matter of the universe as Hydrinos is supported by BlackLight’s spectroscopic and analytical results as well as astrophysical observations.”

    Dark matter supposedly reacts very weakly if at all with light so it just seems like the hydrino would have a tough time becoming a “normal” hydrogen atom again.

    But apparently just adding water brings back the hydrogen atom…(scratching head)

    Has somebody wrapped their head around this yet? I read the analysis done on the hydrino several years ago and it simply violates several laws of physics e.g. its theory does not predict the energy levels of hydrogen.

    Anybody?

    • Job001

      Suggest another view, the necessary catalytic components are “brought back”, read the report about the many components that can catalyze the required reactions. Hydrinos theoretically are very small and would just disappear, i.e. go away, being even harder to contain than hydrogen.

      • Karl

        Have you given it a thought that it may be an illusion to talk about physical LAWs and better stick to the term theories. Perhaps we should imagine we are just humans that continue to explore the magical nature and successively grasp and decipher hidden information in the magnificent universe.

        • Job001

          Yep.
          Knowledge, as, overly simple metaphor.

      • I wonder if the recyclable component might be a hydroxide, which becomes an oxide as a result of the reaction process and is then exposed to water vapour to re-form the hydroxide? The net result would be a sort of hydrogen conveyor belt carrying H2 from the air to the electrodes.

        Most alkali metal hydroxides would fit the bill as they all have strongly reactive, hygroscopic oxides, e.g., Li2O + H2O >> 2 LiOH.

        • enantiomer2000

          Interesting hypothesis, but according to the validation reports, 3rd party investigators were seeing up to 1800x energy output which ruled out any known chemical processes.

    • tlp

      I think the hydrogen atom is lost forever. But no panic, we have plenty of them!

      • I think Mills says somewhere that the hydrino’s tightly bound electron does not interact with photons, so you can’t laser them back to normal hydrogen (I wonder why).

        However he also says that they *can* be bumped back into normal hydrogen via kinetic energy transfer. So put them in a sufficiently hot material/gas or fire sufficiently energetic particles at them and you can convert hydrinos to hydrogen.

        Fascinating stuff if true. A whole new branch of chemistry and physics.

        That’s why nobody believes it.

        • tlp

          I just meant that there in no need to convert them back. At least it takes as much energy as was released.

        • Brokeeper

          Sounds like a great fire retardant for forest fires. 🙂

        • enantiomer2000

          I think what Dr Mills is saying, is that the catalyst can be rehydrated with normal H20 to begin the hydrino process anew. If you look look at the sf-ciht-cell section of their website under technology it clearly indicates that this is new H20 introduced to the catalyst via steam. I don’t remember him saying that the hydrinos can be converted back to regular hydrogen. To do so without putting ridiculous energy back into the system would violate the conservation of energy.

  • Anon2012_2014

    It’s clear from his patent. He has generated the megawatts for 0.14 milliseconds to get 3,000 joules.

    He takes the megawatts and divides by .0001 liters to get the gigawatts per liter.

    This is a very small scale experiment. I still want to see his calorimetry setup. I think it is less than gasoline/air in energy/liter and energy/kilogram. Don’t know how fast gasoline burns in a car, but when it detonates (explosive supersonic flame front that causes ping), I would bet it burns at about that rate (the whole thing in 1 mS) and that one cylinder head of gasoline is more than 3,000 joules for the brief instant that it is burning.

    The real thing is I want proof it is not chemical. To me this means 10x chemical or even 3x chemical for the reactants in there doing the most exothermic chemical reactions per unit mass or volume.

    I hope BLP has a good proof, but I have insufficient information to say yes or no. There is so much information being presented (300 page patent) that I am not sure. I will say he has a lot of good people working on the right things IF he has the reaction. I hope it is a valid LENR+ proof but I will withhold judgement until I get the information.

  • tlp

    More data from Mills:

    “”You realize that if you pump 12000 amps at any kind of voltage through water with any ions in it, you will flash the water into steam and will see a very bright spark and hear a noise much like lightning. It will be quite spectacular all by itself, even without fairy dust that might add to the conductivity and the combustibility.”

    we run 6V RMS, the breakdown voltage of H2O is about 4 kV
    H2O does not combust”

    So the ignition in is 12kA 6V = 72kW, output 10MW, COP well over 100. That should be easy to verify even without looped self sustain.

    They are probably using just normal spot welding machine in the demo.

    • artefact

      I guess we will see something like: http://www.blacklightpower.com/plasma-video/
      Just that they are measuring the energy and compare it with a non active charge.

    • Oceans2014

      Hilarious – “They are probably using just normal spot welding machine in the demo”.

      • tlp

        OK, maybe not JUST the welding machine …

        • friendlyprogrammer

          Still no idea on what is going on? Anyone?

  • tlp

    More data from Mills:

    “”You realize that if you pump 12000 amps at any kind of voltage through water with any ions in it, you will flash the water into steam and will see a very bright spark and hear a noise much like lightning. It will be quite spectacular all by itself, even without fairy dust that might add to the conductivity and the combustibility.”

    we run 6V RMS, the breakdown voltage of H2O is about 4 kV
    H2O does not combust”

    So the ignition in is 12kA 6V = 72kW, output 10MW, COP well over 100. That should be easy to verify even without looped self sustain.

    They are probably using just normal spot welding machine in the demo.

    • artefact

      I guess we will see something like: http://www.blacklightpower.com/plasma-video/
      Just that they are measuring the energy and compare it with a non active charge.

    • enantiomer2000

      TLP, have you read the validation reports from 3rd party investigators linked from the their website? Some of these reports indicate 1800x energy output with inputs and outputs carefully measured with control groups also considered. I am skeptical because the claims are so fantastic, but some very clever deception would be needed to fake these studies…

  • Oceans2014

    .. you mean like the Bible )

  • GreenWin

    Oddly, if you live in a VR environment all the icky stuff in soil, worms, slugs, ants, moles, fungi are expunged. Same in VR lakes and oceans. VR programmers rarely bother to add microbial and small life form code to their habitat routines. The result probably of commercial/academic game design.

  • AstralProjectee

    Can someone please tell me what is the difference between a hydrinos atom and a hydrogen atom? Mostly is the hydrinos a similar atom? Thanks.

    • AstralProjectee

      Oops I meant to say Mostly is the hydrinos a simpler atom? Not “Mostly is the hydrinos a SIMILAR atom?”

      • kabel

        For my understanding, hydrogen and hydrino atoms are basically the same, Hydrogen and hydrino have the same mass, hydrino have all the same building blocks that hydrogen have. Only difference is that – in hydrino – electron have less energy, so it “fly” closer to nucleus.

        Why its strange? First, in quantum mechanics you don’t get fractions. Electron flies on first, second or third orbit, but never on 2,5 orbit, or 0,5 like in hydrino theory.
        Second thing is Bohr radius, it’s a lowest possible orbit. In traditional physics there’s no way for electron to get closer to nucleus then length of Bohr radius. In hydrino theory electron seems to break this rule.

        ‘Hydrino as dark matter’ theory is strange too. For my understanding, if hydrino is dark matter, then it should be almost totally resist to QED (quantum electrodynamics) interactions. So hydrino’s electron shouldn’t emit or absorb photon. It makes hydrino super duper hard to detect and super duper hard to work with.

        But I’m not a physicist, my knowledge, especially about QED, is really basic.
        I will be very happy if someone tell me if this make any sense.

        …and sorry for my english :/

        • Andreas Moraitis

          If I (also a non-physicist) understood it correctly, hydrinos don’t emit photons when they switch to a lower energy level. They transfer the energy directly to the catalyzer. That could be the reason why they cannot be observed in the universe.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Sorry, I’ve been probably wrong. UV-signatures of hydrinos have been measured in the experiments, according to Mills. But at least the catalyst seems to be necessary. No catalyst, no signature.
            Maybe one of the physicists here can explain it better.

          • enantiomer2000

            Andreas, you are correct. According to Mills, when transitioning the hydrino energy state, there is release of UV radiation. I am wondering if once a hydrogen atom releases that UV radiation though, if it will never release electromagnetic radiation again. In order for hydrinos to be dark matter, they would have to be chemically and electromagnetically inert, right? That is one of the primary characteristics of dark matter: We can see it only through gravitational lensing.

  • AstralProjectee

    Can someone please tell me what is the difference between a hydrinos atom and a hydrogen atom? Mostly is the hydrinos a similar atom? Thanks.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      By definition they should considered to be hydrogen atoms. You can find a simple explanation here:

      http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Hydrinos_explained.html

    • AstralProjectee

      Oops I meant to say Mostly is the hydrinos a simpler atom? Not “Mostly is the hydrinos a SIMILAR atom?”

      • kabel

        For my understanding, hydrogen and hydrino atoms are basically the same, Hydrogen and hydrino have the same mass, hydrino have all the same building blocks that hydrogen have. Only difference is that – in hydrino – electron have less energy, so it “fly” closer to nucleus.

        Why its strange? First, in quantum mechanics you don’t get fractions. Electron flies on first, second or third orbit, but never on 2,5 orbit, or 0,5 like in hydrino theory.
        Second thing is Bohr radius, it’s a lowest possible orbit. In traditional physics there’s no way for electron to get closer to nucleus then length of Bohr radius. In hydrino theory electron seems to break this rule.

        ‘Hydrino as dark matter’ theory is strange too. For my understanding, if hydrino is dark matter, then it should be almost totally resist to QED (quantum electrodynamics) interactions. So hydrino’s electron shouldn’t emit or absorb photon. It makes hydrino super duper hard to detect and super duper hard to work with.

        But I’m not a physicist, my knowledge, especially about QED, is really basic.
        I will be very happy if someone tell me if this make any sense.

        …and sorry for my english :/

        • Andreas Moraitis

          If I (also a non-physicist) understood it correctly, hydrinos don’t emit photons when they switch to a lower energy level. They transfer the energy directly to the catalyzer. That could be the reason why they cannot be observed in the universe.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            Sorry, I’ve been probably wrong. UV-signatures of hydrinos have been measured in the experiments, according to Mills. But at least the catalyst seems to be necessary. No catalyst, no signature.
            Maybe one of the physicists here can explain it better.

          • enantiomer2000

            Andreas, you are correct. According to Mills, when transitioning the hydrino energy state, there is release of UV radiation. I am wondering if once a hydrogen atom releases that UV radiation though, if it will never release electromagnetic radiation again. In order for hydrinos to be dark matter, they would have to be chemically and electromagnetically inert, right? That is one of the primary characteristics of dark matter: We can see it only through gravitational lensing.

          • Guest

            The release of UV radiation is a byproduct of the collisions that occur after H(1/n) has converted its potential energy into kinetic energy between itself and the catalyst. The UV radiation is not emitted directly by the “falling” electron, which is unlike what does happen for electrons “falling” to the ground state.

          • enantiomer2000

            Interesting kmarinas86. Was this information mentioned on one of their published reports?

          • kmarinas86

            “Interesting kmarinas86. Was this information mentioned on one of their published reports?”

            Please note that I attempted to delete my statement because it was inaccurate, but it shows up as being written by “Guest”.

            As for the part of the information which is correct, I have not looked to find it on their published reports, but I have seen it on the main CQM-GUT book. To quote from Chapter 5 under the heading “Energy Transfer Mechanism”:

            “The catalysis of hydrogen involves the nonradiative transfer of energy from atomic hydrogen to a catalyst to form an intermediate (Eq. (5.7)) that may then release the additional energy by radiative and nonradiative mechanisms.”

            So basically we both had two separate halves of the full answer.

    • bachcole

      Why don’t you just astral project and check it out yourself. Just kidding. Really. I freely admit to have astral projected, so I really am just kidding you. I just couldn’t resist. (:->)

      The difference, supposedly, is that the hydrino has a orbit smaller even than the usual first and only orbit of the hydrogen atom. This means that it has much less energy, chemically speaking, than a conventional hydrogen atom. And it gets this less energy by giving up energy to the process; that is where most if not all of the energy of the process comes from. That is my understanding.

      • AstralProjectee

        Thanks for sharing your experience about astral projection. Nice to know I am not the only one on here that knows about it, and has experienced it.

  • Charles

    My knees buckled when I read that black matter is simply hydrinos. I place this staggering info second in line with the big bang theory. Who out there will resolve whether dark matter is causing the universe to expand or not.

    • LENR G

      Well it’s just an hypothesis right now with much left to be verified, starting with the reality of hydrinos in the first place.

      I think astrophysicists place the “blame” for the expanding universe on dark energy and not dark matter…two different but perhaps (probably?) related phenomena.

      • enantiomer2000

        Agreed. It is Dark Energy that is causing the universe expansion. Dark Matter is what holds galaxies together. I found the hypothesis that hydrinos are dark matter to be intriguing.

  • Charles

    My knees buckled when I read that black matter is simply hydrinos. I place this staggering info second in line with the big bang theory. Who out there will resolve whether dark matter is causing the universe to expand or not.

    • Well it’s just an hypothesis right now with much left to be verified, starting with the reality of hydrinos in the first place.

      I think astrophysicists place the “blame” for the expanding universe on dark energy and not dark matter…two different but perhaps (probably?) related phenomena.

      • enantiomer2000

        Agreed. It is Dark Energy that is causing the universe expansion. Dark Matter is what holds galaxies together. I found the hypothesis that hydrinos are dark matter to be intriguing.

  • Oceans2014

    Again .. Rossi and his Billion dollar Fund have flushed out the normally passive Black Light Power investors, after 60 million invested they are restless for a show of proof ! .. as someone mentioned on the board we will probably get a good glimpse of a spot welder demonstration (sparks and all ) in action and lots of useless technical explanations, and Promises of unlimited energy in the – “YEARS” to Come – we do not expect to see anything convincing as we “all” know its Never been done before – my money is on Rossi and real Cold Fusion.

  • Veblin

    A very good post on vortex with information on Blacklight Power, Dr. Mills, Hydrinos and more.
    [Vo]:Understanding BLP
    Mike Carrell Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:17:50 -0800
    http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg88957.html

    • LENR G

      Very interesting. Each additional person that vouches for the people and technology helps. If the science has been published why hasn’t there been a rush to replicate? Why hasn’t the Harvard astrophysics paper gotten more attention?

      This is so frustrating.

    • bachcole

      I notice that the people who support Mills knows him best, and the people who are negative towards him don’t know him very well.

  • Veblin

    A very good post on vortex with information on Blacklight Power, Dr. Mills, Hydrinos and more.
    [Vo]:Understanding BLP
    Mike Carrell Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:17:50 -0800
    http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg88957.html

    • Very interesting. Each additional person that vouches for the people and technology helps. If the science has been published why hasn’t there been a rush to replicate? Why hasn’t the Harvard astrophysics paper gotten more attention?

      This is so frustrating.

      • bachcole

        It is possible that the Mills affair is an even greater embarrassment to the physics and scientific establishments than is the cold fusion per se embarrassment. But if you put them all together, it is horrible. People can’t think outside of the box. It reminds me of people not being able to support any political movement that is not firmly encased in the Republican or Democratic parties.

        • kmarinas86

          “It reminds me of people not being able to support any political movement that is not firmly encased in the Republican or Democratic parties.”

          It’s both better and worse than that. Physics and cosmology today is hardly bipartisan, let alone multi-party! However, some sciences, such as biological chemistry, are quite progressive and resemble a true scientific enterprise. Inorganic chemistry and many “soft sciences” fit somewhere in the middle; these are certainly far less dogmatic than physics and cosmology. It’s too bad though that current physics dogma is ultimately a prevailing bottleneck as to how good these other sciences will become as they altogether depend on it.

    • bachcole

      I notice that the people who support Mills knows him best, and the people who are negative towards him don’t know him very well.

  • Zephir

    I’ve never understood
    this craziness. So, the energy is produced with formation of hydrino
    atoms. What next? The hydrino atoms nowhere leave the reactor, so that
    they must change back into normal hydrogen and the energy must be
    returned. In addition, the energy released during hydrino formation
    cannot be so high as Mills is claiming – it’s essentially chemical
    reaction in range of few eV (or even lower, as it’s allegedly subquantum
    state). IMO Mills is doing LENR or I don’t know…

    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-01-instance-ball-lightning-captured-video.html#jCp
    I’ve never understood
    this craziness. So, the energy is produced with formation of hydrino
    atoms. What next? The hydrino atoms nowhere leave the reactor, so that
    they must change back into normal hydrogen and the energy must be
    returned. In addition, the energy released during hydrino formation
    cannot be so high as Mills is claiming – it’s essentially chemical
    reaction in range of few eV (or even lower, as it’s allegedly subquantum
    state). IMO Mills is doing LENR or I don’t know…

    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-01-instance-ball-lightning-captured-video.html#jCp

    • tlp

      I have understood that hydrinos are so small, that they escape from the system, to the universe. No need to convert them back. Basically in the oceans we have huge amount of usable energy, we just didn’t know how to utilize it before now. Or Mills have known some years already.

  • Jeff

    I have a website that goes into the details of BLP’s theory:
    http://zhydrogen.com

    I have one PDF (near the top of the home page and shown below) that I
    made that shows interesting calculations dealing with the hydrogen atom –
    and is one of the reasons that I believe Mills’s theory is correct.

    http://zhydrogen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/BLP-e-energy.pdf

    I still believe in BLP even though I tried to replicate their CIHT device
    last year without success – (the non-plasma, non-MHD version), see here:

    http://zhydrogen.com/?page_id=620

    • Investor

      Jeff. Excellent write-up. I will share with others. You are way ahead of most. Note: Great circles are perpendicular. Did I miss something in your summary?

      • Jeff

        As far as I know, the great circles are only perpendicular during a
        mathematical sweep of 360 degrees of rotation. (This is from memory,
        could be slightly wrong here ) Mills sets up two current loops at
        particular angles and then sweeps it 360 degrees to get the mathematical
        distribution of infinite current loops having infinitesimal charge on
        each loop on the orbitsphere. Then these mathematical solutions match
        the experimental data.

        I’m building a calorimeter that
        can measure a 200 joule pulse of electricity from 2000 V capacitors,
        just as Mills does with the Parr 1341 calorimeter. My calorimeter will
        be very accurate but will be home made. I’ll put the small samples in a
        glass tube with copper rods coming in from the ends and orings to keep
        the water out. The glass will break during ignition. I’m very good
        with electronics and measuring equipment and building calorimeters. I
        plan to move fast and have results within 5 weeks or so.

      • Jeff

        although I do make a caveat on my website saying that my description of the great circles is a simplification. Specifically I write the following:
        Repeating note from above: The simplified model of electric
        surface currents on the orbitsphere shown above *does* give the proper
        angular momentum of h bar divided by two around the main spin axis (z
        axis) and h bar divided by four on all axes that are perpendicular to
        the main spin axis but it does not match Mills’s model close enough. In
        Mills’s Book “Grand Unified Theory of Classical Physics”, the charge
        currents traveling on the surface of the orbitsphere are more complex.
        In order to be accurate, I plan to eventually describe the surface
        electric currents on the orbitsphere exactly in the manner that Mills
        does. Therefore, this webpage is still a work in progress

  • tucu

    see here, some comments re inverse QM states of hydrogen, predicted by dr Robert L Carroll
    http://chavascience.com/hydrogen-2/lenr-anomalous-heat

  • tlp

    I have understood that hydrinos are so small, that they escape from the system, to the universe. No need to convert them back. Basically in the oceans we have huge amount of usable energy, we just didn’t know how to utilize it before now. Or Mills have known some years already.

  • Animal

    Energy is Joules/Littres, Mr. Mills is fooling us?

    • kmarinas86

      “Energy is Joules/Littres, Mr. Mills is fooling us?”

      Be careful. Joules/Litre (or Joules/Liter) is a measure of energy density. The article refers to Watts/Liter, which is a measure of power density, as the article correctly describes. More specifically, Watts/Liter is a measure of volumetric power density.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Still no idea on what is going on? Anyone?

  • kmarinas86

    “Interesting kmarinas86. Was this information mentioned on one of their published reports?”

    Please note that I attempted to delete my statement because it was inaccurate, but it shows up as being written by “Guest”.

    As for the part of the information which is correct, I have not looked to find it on their published reports, but I have seen it on the main CQM-GUT book. To quote from Chapter 5 under the heading “Energy Transfer Mechanism”:

    “The catalysis of hydrogen involves the nonradiative transfer of energy from atomic hydrogen to a catalyst to form an intermediate (Eq. (5.7)) that may then release the additional energy by radiative and nonradiative mechanisms.”

    So basically we both had two separate halves of the full answer.