Rossi on E-Cat's Theoretical Limits

There’s been some interesting discussion on the Journal of Nuclear Physics between Steven Karels and Andrea Rossi about the theoretical limits of the size of an E-Cat. There was a misunderstanding earlier this week in which Rossi seemed to say that was no limitation to the size of an individual E-Cat reactor; today he corrected himself, explaining that he meant there was no theoretical limit to the size of an E-Cat plant, but apparently you can only make an E-Cat reactor so large.

In that context, Steven Karels posted some questions on the JONP about what might be possible with the E-Cat, and Rossi gave some answers.

1. Is the 100kW eCat reactor still a possibility?
A. a possibility yes, a reality no

2. Could we expect the possibility of a 10MW eCat unit?
A. yes

3. With such a unit and the previously envisioned 2.5GW thermal source, this could be implemented with an ensemble of 250 each 10MW eCat units to power a 1GW electrical power generation station. Do you see this as a possibility?
A. as a matter of fact, I do not see why so many modules cannot be combined in an assembly.

Rossi has never explained why large single reactors won’t work as well as the smaller ones, but I don’t suppose it matters a whole lot. It would be interesting to find out from Rossi how small he thinks they might be able to make an E-Cat.


  • mike-33

    2 possible reasons
    a) technical—inability to control the speed of reaction in a huge volume inside that big reactor with so much of
    fuel material inside a generator at any given time.
    b) financial— bank-government limit imposed on huge generators so that they take lion share of industrial
    pie even though they did not participate, (actually they kept sidelining the whole development process).
    Note: have you noticed in a media that Hot-Fusion guys are lately announcing success in over-unity, it seams that
    hawks from banks and energy cartels are taking serious notice and they are closing in so this process too
    has to become their pray.
    Wolf with tall black hats never change…

    • bachcole

      I believe that there is no need for conspiracy theories when normal human nature will suffice to explain why there is no support for LENR. Either they have never heard of us or else they think that we are a bunch of wingnuts. And they think that we are a bunch of wingnuts because they worship lamestream physicists, and lamestream physicists are fixated on their pet hot-fusion theories and their lovely cash flows. Presenting these conspiracy theories only makes us look more like wingnuts; it does not help; it hurts our cause.

      • Mats

        Agree!

      • Bernie koppenhofer

        Would you call the government telling the patent office, do not issue patents for national security reasons a conspiracy?

        • MasterBlaster7

          I don’t think that was conspiracy….I think that was a reaction to the train wreck and embarrassment that followed the F&P media disaster. Even though the 200 labs that tried to reproduce the effect weren’t loading their hydrogen high enough. So, sad. Many of those negative result top scientists reputation rest on F&P being wrong…they are going to lose face when LENR is proven correct.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          “…Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events….”
          http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/07/12/313399/conspiracy-theorists-vs-govt-dupes/

          • Manuel Cruz

            Note, however, that psychology and sociology are not sciences in the slightest.

          • bachcole

            What is a science? I thought that science was a method. A science would be a field of study in which the scientific method was used to understand what is going on.

            However, science assumes that everything is an object. But with the psychology and sociology, ALL of the objects of study turn out to be subjects; they are all INFINITELY PRECIOUS subjective beings whose inner most thoughts, feelings, intuitions, and experiences, and consciousness are inaccessible to objective observation more than the center of the Sun is inaccessible to objective observation. There is no law against applying the scientific method to people or groups of people, but don’t expect too much except superficial observations.

      • While it is obviously possible to see conspiracies where there may be none (IMHO the safest course in general) it is also possible to go much too far in the opposite direction by disregarding the fundamentally psychopathic nature of the controlling elite, and what they are capable of. In the former case you may turn out to be mistaken, but in the latter case you render yourself defenseless, possibly even complicit with, the hostile actions of others. ‘Normalcy bias’ and looking the other way allowed Hitler to come to power in what had previously been a civilised society, so (IMO) vigilance, suspicion and cynicism regarding our lords and masters are a necessary precaution.

        As a case in point, does it seem likely that the recent mysterious deaths of 8 senior bankers this year (others have linked up to 20 recent banker deaths to whatever is going on) and one missing investigative journalist looking into this were a coincidence? If not, wouldn’t a criminal conspiracy at very high levels seem to be the ‘best fit’ explanation? I for one would be interested to hear other explanations that fit the facts given at the following links:

        http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/archives/10482#more-10482

        History is littered with conspiracies on the part of governments and more recently on the part of governments and corporations working together. The story of cold fusion is and will be no exception.

        • bachcole

          Perhaps what you see as conspiracies are under the rubric of what I call normal human behavior. Of course. And of course people are going to come up with conspiracies, especially when they have power and they don’t like what they see. But “conspiracies” is also a loaded word. The people who I see as terrorists other people see as freedom fighters. I am sure that the Koch brothers are involved in plans that will help promote individualism and economic freedom; someone else will see the very same activities as a conspiracy.

          My main objection to a conspiracy with regard to LENR at this point in history (not the MIT scandal and aftermath) is that normal human behavior not conspiracies can easily explain the current total blackout in the lamestream media. In other words, the scoundrels at MIT in 1989-1990 did their work successfully and there is nothing more that they need to do. Even late night comics believe them.

          However, this banking thing sounds interesting. I believe that FAR people are WAY more pissed off, rightly or wrongly, at bankers than they are at cold fusion researchers. Very, very, very few people are pissed off at cold fusion researchers; perhaps a few people who have to share their spouses attention with a cold fusion laboratory. But LOTS and LOTS of people are seriously pissed off at bankers. I confess that I have trouble dredging up any sympathy for the bankers. I don’t want to end capitalism. I do want to encourage the attitude that the elites have an obligation to serve society and not just be in it for themselves.

          • In this context it is interesting to hear Eugene Mallove speaking about collusion between the US govt and academics to kill cold fusion and how certain other inconvenient technologies have been similarly suppressed.

            He was murdered shortly after this interview. Whether there is a connection or not remains an open question.

            Part 1 of 3:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYIK_OpxiZw

    • And (c) practical— cores will need to be exchanged regularly and there are handling and transportation limits.

      Now that CF is firmly on the radar of the big corporates, IH and others like them may soon face ‘difficulties’ that will eventually cause them to sell out to the cartels, or at least to come to exclusive arrangements with them.

  • bitplayer

    It’s amazing and pleasurable to read Rossi’s remarks without the usual nagging sense of doubt. A new world, thanks to the IH partnership.

    • C. Kirk

      My only remaining nagging sense of doubt is 1. Whether in the near future the beast can be tamed enough to be commercialized and 2. whether it will be allowed Absolutely no nagging doubt that Rossi has something very potent

  • theBuckWheat

    I happily cheer Rossi on. LENR will rank toward the top of science and engineering advances, above the invention of the steam engine. It is also wonderful that the internet blogs bring the public closer to the developer and inventors than ever before in history.

  • theBuckWheat

    I happily cheer Rossi on. LENR will rank toward the top of science and engineering advances, above the invention of the steam engine. It is also wonderful that the internet blogs bring the public closer to the developer and inventors than ever before in history.

    • bachcole

      Remember that critical thought in 1691 was very few and far between. It is difficult to compare today with them. Today we have lots of people almost as smart as Newton; then we had but, well, Newton, and Liebnitz.

      • Charles

        Maybe as knowledgeable, but surely not as smart. Einstein “stood on the shoulders of giants.” I think we sorely sorely underestimate and poorly understand the genius of James Clerk Maxwell. I somehow think he is still far ahead of our understanding of magnetism, a poorly understood and extremely powerful phenomena.

        • bachcole

          There are studies that show that us Americans have gotten smarter over the past 100 years. The more one uses one’s brain, the better it gets, up to a point I suppose. And these tendencies get passed down culturally and perhaps even epigenetically, although probably not genetically. People in 1691 would have been considered profoundly stupid by our standards.

          But by their standards, we would be considered profoundly profane or selfish or whatever they thought was important. Remember that 1691 was also the year of the Salem Witch Trials, which by our standards did not show a lot of critical thought. Like someone must be a witch because we would not be able to discern that they were a witch because of their witchcraft abilities. See how foolish that looks to you. It doesn’t even make sense. And this garbage was rampant in Europe. The Salem Witch Trials were famous because it wasn’t supposed to happen in proto-America. 9,000,000 innocent people died in Europe from 1450 onwards because of this alleged thought process. But, again, I stress that they were just as good at what they thought was important as we are at what we think is important.

      • Warthog

        I’m sure that by percentage that there were as many “Newton-grade” intellects as today. But very few of those could reach a level of education to make an impact because a huge portion of the population was scratching in the dirt to provide food. Most people are not aware of the HUGE increases in the efficiency of agriculture freeing up a far larger fraction of the population for other productive activities…..including thought. And that process is still happening today in the third world. LENR and automation will only increase the speed and breadth of that phenomenon.

        • bachcole

          I agree with the point that fewer agricultural workers and people trying to survive give people more time to think, but I insist that people are getting smarter, especially where they have the opportunity to exercise their brains with something more than back breaking work. There is compelling evidence for this. I don’t have a link, but someone gave a battery of IQ tests from the 1930’s to modern people, and the modern people blew the 1930’s people out of the water like Able Shot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufR8FXMGCak

  • guga

    Admin, why do you interpret answer#2 (10MW units) as a hint about domestic E-Cats? Maybe you had 10kW in mind?

    • ecatworld

      You are correct — my mistake there!

  • guga

    Admin, why do you interpret answer#2 (10MW units) as a hint about domestic E-Cats? Maybe you had 10kW in mind?

  • clovis ray

    you said, It would be interesting to find out from Rossi how small he thinks they might be able to make an E-Cat.

    It would indeed, and from the temps that the hot cat is putting up, i could see why a very large reactor would be hard to handle. not impossible and it could come in time, if something better don’t come along and over take it. in all the years i have followed the e-cat very few negatives are encountered, regarding any aspect of this grand device.

    • MasterBlaster7

      The e-cat and many LENR devices use nano powdered nickle. So, based on that….you should…if you had the nano-fabrication technology…be able to make these reactors at 1 micron size….maybe nanometer size…say 50-100 nanometers…..that is also assuming that the reaction takes place at the missing atom vacancies inside of the nickle lattice. If the magic happens in the voids and gaps on the surface….maybe bigger…like 1 micron size.

      What could ‘out do’ a LENR reactor?….not hot fusion…you need a billion dollar + device…not anything I can think of….except maybe matter-antimater reactions or dark matter/energy…or zero point energy…..we are talking star trek here…I wouldn’t hold your breath for something that can beat LENR….maybe in 1000 years haha.

      • Ophelia Rump

        You have to assume that since this is a reactor there is some lower limit to the reaction size, a critical mass below which the reaction will not provide excess output. A minimum sized core.

        • MasterBlaster7

          no idea. When you are talking cascade effect…are you talking the ‘avalanche’ ? Swartz of Nanortech term.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, sounds feasible. The nanometer scale sounds small but it’s really pretty big compared to the subnanometer scale of chemical synthesis.

        • MasterBlaster7

          You have to remember that in the magic (might) take place in a nickle lattice..so lets say 100 x 100 x 100 atoms….what would that be…10…20…maybe 30 NM…somewhere around there. And nickle expands when hydrogen loaded..

  • clovis ray

    you said, It would be interesting to find out from Rossi how small he thinks they might be able to make an E-Cat.

    It would indeed, and from the temps that the hot cat is putting up, i could see why a very large reactor would be hard to handle. not impossible and it could come in time, if something better don’t come along and over take it. in all the years i have followed the e-cat very few negatives are encountered, regarding any aspect of this grand device.

    • MasterBlaster7

      The e-cat and many LENR devices use nano powdered nickle. So, based on that….you should…if you had the nano-fabrication technology…be able to make these reactors at 1 micron size….maybe nanometer size…say 50-100 nanometers…..that is also assuming that the reaction takes place at the missing atom vacancies inside of the nickle lattice. If the magic happens in the voids and gaps on the surface….maybe bigger…like 1 micron size.

      What could ‘out do’ a LENR reactor?….not hot fusion…you need a billion dollar + device…not anything I can think of….except maybe matter-antimater reactions or dark matter/energy…or zero point energy…..we are talking star trek here…I wouldn’t hold your breath for something that can beat LENR….maybe in 1000 years haha.

      • Ophelia Rump

        You have to assume that since this is a reactor there is some lower limit to the reaction size, a critical mass below which the reaction will not provide excess output. A minimum sized core.

        It seems unlikely that you would get more out than put in without a cascade effect being involved.

        • MasterBlaster7

          no idea. When you are talking cascade effect…are you talking the ‘avalanche’ ? Swartz of Nanortech term.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yeah, sounds feasible. The nanometer scale sounds small but it’s really pretty big compared to the subnanometer scale of chemical synthesis.

        • MasterBlaster7

          You have to remember that in the magic (might) take place in a nickle lattice..so lets say 100 x 100 x 100 atoms….what would that be…10…20…maybe 30 NM…somewhere around there. And nickle expands when hydrogen loaded..

  • Charles

    Maybe as knowledgeable, but surely not as smart. Einstein “stood on the shoulders of giants.” I think we sorely sorely underestimate and poorly understand the genius of James Clerk Maxwell.

  • MasterBlaster7

    I thought Rossi was working on 100kW reactors right now? Isn’t that what IH is putting together for an industrial purpose?

    I wouldn’t read too much into ‘theory’….as there is no ‘theory’ on LENR. Maybe Rossi has some better insight on a new ‘theory’ but I doubt he has the E=mc2 of LENR worked out. Once that is worked out (don’t hold your breath) then we can talk about how big we can make these LENR devices….not before.

    But, it is good news that Rossi thinks 100kW reactors, up to 10MW reactors are plausible. Thats enough to retrofit a 3MW large nuclear reactor plant. In the beginning, we will be retrofitting existing power plants. I don’t think they come any larger than 10MW….3MW being a large nuclear plant.

  • MasterBlaster7

    I thought Rossi was working on 100kW reactors right now? Isn’t that what IH is putting together for an industrial purpose?

    I wouldn’t read too much into ‘theory’….as there is no ‘theory’ on LENR. Maybe Rossi has some better insight on a new ‘theory’ but I doubt he has the E=mc2 of LENR worked out. Once that is worked out (don’t hold your breath) then we can talk about how big we can make these LENR devices….not before.

    But, it is good news that Rossi thinks 100kW reactors, up to 10MW reactors are plausible. Thats enough to retrofit a 3MW large nuclear reactor plant. In the beginning, we will be retrofitting existing power plants. I don’t think they come any larger than 10MW….3MW being a large nuclear plant.

    • Guru

      Dear MasterBlaster, I don’t agree with Your vision about “In the beginning, we will be retrofitting existing power plants”.

      Basic calculations: What percentage of final price of elektricity for end customers is of transmission costs, plus some profit for transmission businessess ? In our country it is something between 30 to 43 %.

      So even with cost of elektricity at zero at powerplant gates (which is unrealistic), your idea of retrofitting existing powerplants is flawed. Electricity sold for zero at gates of powerplant is uncompetitive against elektricity produced at site of end consumer (by LENR tech) thanks to costs of transmission businesses.

      Virtually all powerplants will bankrupt or in Zombie mode within 6-8 years. The same with transmission businesses.

      • MMK!

        I agree with your view completely. The transmission cost + maintenance + loss will be uncompetitive when LENR is fully matured. I’m with a major EHV cable manufacturer and since the dawn of LENR, our company has made redundant many people worldwide, The EHV and HV businesses are down significantly worldwide (Sales people are blaming economic conditions but very few have heard of LENR, they are still scratching their heads), only MV and LV are still able to exist.

      • MasterBlaster7

        So, if your logic holds….how is it that Bouillon contracted with the Koreans to retrofit a stranded asset power plant. It is very similar tech.

    • Steve H

      A large conventional coal or gas power station is typically 2000 MW. Large nuclear and hydro are typically 500 MW. Nuclear can only be used for base load as they are not capable of sudden and large swings in output.
      Gas and hydro are the best solution for voltage/frequency stability and sudden changes in output.
      If LENR is going to replace all power generation types then it will need to be capable of ramping up and down quickly to allow for sudden loss of generating capacity or changes in consumer demand. This occurs if another station trips a turbine or everyone puts the kettle on at the same time for a cup of tea ( typically seen in the UK at half-time – for a major televised soccer game).
      It would most likely be used initially for pre-heating boiler feed water.

      • bachcole

        Steve H, I think that you are absolutely right on. Until LENR+ can be turned ON and OFF relatively quickly and hopefully even have a graduated ON, it will be all about the base load.

      • MasterBlaster7

        Oh thats right…I misread something. For instance 3MW for large nuclear reactor..meant 3GW…largest power stations being 10GW not MW.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Many small reactors would have a larger surface to volume ratio than one big reactor with the same total volume. So, there would be better heat exchange with a lot of smaller reactors.

    http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/esp/2001_gbio/folder_structure/ce/m2/s1/

    • MasterBlaster7

      That’s a good point.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      That’s undoubtedly an important issue. However, one could try to build larger reactors with a different geometry. For example, instead of one reactor tube there could be multiple tubes that are surrounded by a coolant. You would just have to scale up the number of tubes together with the reactor volume.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Or, perhaps better, one large reactor tube that is traversed by numerous coolant lines. One could use a 3D printer to realize the optimal design.

      • bachcole

        Perhaps Rossi was just trying to avoid the Babbage Syndrome. Knowing how difficult it was to get the thing to work at all, and knowing that he had one that actually worked, he might have just decided to not bother with makint a much larger one, just so he could be sure that he had cash flow before the money ran out. If, as you suggest, different geometries would possibly work in a larger unit, Rossi may have just decided that it would take too long. He had a goose that laid golden eggs; he decided not to see if he could breed it with other geese and see if the offspring also laid golden eggs.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Many small reactors would have a larger surface to volume ratio than one big reactor with the same total volume. So, there would be better heat exchange with a lot of smaller reactors.

    http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/esp/2001_gbio/folder_structure/ce/m2/s1/

    • MasterBlaster7

      That’s a good point.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      That’s undoubtedly an important issue. However, one could try to build larger reactors with a different geometry. For example, instead of one reactor tube there could be multiple tubes that are surrounded by a coolant. You would just have to scale up the number of tubes together with the reactor volume.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Or, perhaps better, one large reactor tube that is traversed by numerous coolant lines. One could use a 3D printer to realize the optimal design.

      • bachcole

        Perhaps Rossi was just trying to avoid the Babbage Syndrome. Knowing how difficult it was to get the thing to work at all, and knowing that he had one that actually worked, he might have just decided to not bother with makint a much larger one, just so he could be sure that he had cash flow before the money ran out. If, as you suggest, different geometries would possibly work in a larger unit, Rossi may have just decided that it would take too long. He had a goose that laid golden eggs; he decided not to see if he could breed it with other geese and see if the offspring also laid golden eggs.

      • bachcole

        Perhaps Rossi was just trying to avoid the Babbage Syndrome. Knowing how difficult it was to get the thing to work at all, and knowing that he had one that actually worked, he might have just decided to not bother with makint a much larger one, just so he could be sure that he had cash flow before the money ran out. If, as you suggest, different geometries would possibly work in a larger unit, Rossi may have just decided that it would take too long. He had a goose that laid golden eggs; he decided not to see if he could breed it with other geese and see if the offspring also laid golden eggs.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The reason you cannot have a massive powder core reactor is simple geometry.
    The surface increases geometrically as you scale up, the internal area increase algebraically.
    Therefore the ability to dissipate the heat generated in the internal mass becomes progressively more difficult, as there is less surface per heat unit, until the core melts down.
    Only a molten core reactor could scale up beyond this limit.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The reason you cannot have a massive powder core reactor is simple geometry.
    The surface increases geometrically as you scale up, the internal area increase algebraically.
    Therefore the ability to dissipate the heat generated in the internal mass becomes progressively more difficult, as there is less surface per heat unit, until the core melts down.
    Only a molten core reactor could scale up beyond this limit.

  • Freethinker

    Room for speculation.

    To me it seem resonable to scale up to whatever size needed. If nothing else it should basically only be a matter of cluster a bunch of smaller cats to feed the need of a multi GW facility. Surely, he will be able to make smaller ones as well. But can the tech be used for really small devices?

    Now, going out on the limb here and wildly speculating in a domain perhaps not considered so much, namely solid state tech – electronic chips. There have been some info about funky stuff going on in semiconductors with relation to Lenr a while back. I have no ref though.

    I doubt it will be Rossi that will chase this, as there are others perhaps more apt to get things rolling. Once the technology has started to proliferate, and the theory is better understod, companies like STM – who has a large vested interest in things small – may be looking att the prospect of power chips directly with on chip power sources. That would ofcourse require that the theory is understood to a degree where electric current can be directly extacted from the process, without too much losses to heat. Think about it. Xray and gamma photons should be able to be translated to electrons.

    So self powered electronics, that is my bet on the smallest LENR device that will be seen.

    Too sci-fi? We’ll see…

    • Ophelia Rump

      You are quite right. MIT’s Nanor is the perfect example.
      I would also expect to see solid state electric generation, once the science is solid.

    • Fortyniner

      And (c) practical— cores will need to be exchanged regularly and there are handling and transportation limits.

      Now that CF is firmly on the radar of the big corporates, IH and others like them may soon face ‘difficulties’ that will eventually cause them to sell out to the cartels, or at least to come to exclusive arrangements with them.

  • Freethinker

    Room for speculation.

    To me it seem resonable to scale up to whatever size needed. If nothing else it should basically only be a matter of cluster a bunch of smaller cats to feed the need of a multi GW facility. Surely, he will be able to make smaller ones as well. But can the tech be used for really small devices?

    Now, going out on the limb here and wildly speculating in a domain perhaps not considered so much, namely solid state tech – electronic chips. There have been some info about funky stuff going on in semiconductors with relation to Lenr a while back. I have no ref though.

    I doubt it will be Rossi that will chase this, as there are others perhaps more apt to get things rolling. Once the technology has started to proliferate, and the theory is better understod, companies like STM – who has a large vested interest in things small – may be looking att the prospect of power chips directly with on chip power sources. That would ofcourse require that the theory is understood to a degree where electric current can be directly extacted from the process, without too much losses to heat. Think about it. Xray and gamma photons should be able to be translated to electrons.

    So self powered electronics, that is my bet on the smallest LENR device that will be seen.

    Too sci-fi? We’ll see…

    • Ophelia Rump

      You are quite right. MIT’s Nanor is the perfect example.
      I would also expect to see solid state electric generation, once the science is solid.

      • bachcole

        Did you state that the state of the art will evolve to being solid state once the science is solid? Just checking.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Why, yes, yes I did say solid state, once the science is solid. I stand behind my statement of solid science solidifying solid state, with solidarity sir!

  • friendlyprogrammer

    So many people interview these guys, but nobody asks them what century they visualize their products in Home Depot/Walmart. Maybe IH has a gameplan that involves 25 years of R&D like Blacklight Power. Maybe Blacklight Power plans on another 25 years of R&D (Their one shot bang was not very impressive).

    R&D, Testing, Verification, Changing Format, Selling rights, Moving plant to other countries, R&D, Third Party Verification, testing, testing, R&D, Improving, Applying for Copyright, Changing Format, Selling rights, evasive answers, R&D, testing, maybe a report next year, R&D, verification, report maybe in a few years, 2011 is game changing year, 2012 is game changing year, oops, maybe in a decade or five decades, R&D, testing, Rejected reports, verification, Maybe another company can do it then, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, R&D, testing, changing format, verification, maybe report next year, maybe report in 5 years, maybe, maybe, maybe, wait, wait, wait.

    Let’s start with ecat. I have been behind Rossi since 2011. He even allegedly sold a few of the dang things even though we saw them months later where they were built. If they were so market ready then why sell out? $11 million when they allegedly sell for 2 million a container? It must have a major flaw still.

    But …

    Wait, R&D, testing, Verification, Changing Format, Selling rights, Moving plant to other countries, R&D, Third Party Verification, testing, testing, R&D, Improving, Applying for Copyright, Changing Format, Selling rights,
    evasive answers, R&D, testing, maybe a report next year, R&D, verification, report maybe in a few years, 2011 is game changing year, 2012 is game changing year, oops, maybe in a decade or five decades, R&D, testing, Rejected reports, verification, Maybe another company can do it then, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, R&D, testing, changing format, verification, maybe report next year, maybe report in 5 years, maybe, maybe, maybe, wait, wait, wait.

    • Daniel Maris

      “I have been behind Rossi since 2011.” LOL – with a dagger at the ready I expect!

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I just want a viable timeline, not … wait, wait, wait, report may come next year, wait, wait, wait, verification, R&D, wait, wait, wait.

        Is it not true Rossi took a 10 000 person waiting list for home units (How long ago)? Is it not true he claims to have sold some (How long ago)?

        Yet nothing is market ready… If it is going to take another 25 years I wish they would just say so.

        • psi2u2

          Relax and pour yourself a beer.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Just as soon as I raise a few million in investor funding I will relax as much as them.

          • psi2u2

            Your real motives become more apparent with every comment.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            It’s because I learned to write in English.

        • Ophelia Rump

          You are still here looking for more, aren’t you. Or are you doing something else?
          Your words have the look of impatience, but the feel of subtle malevolence.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            I’d rather interviewers ask “When do you expect this in Walmart?”, rather than asking questions like the one in article a zillion times. Seriously! Two of these questions are “are the 100kW, and 10MW ecats a possibility?”. I suppose I am being harsh on the Interviewer here, but I think 9/10 people here would rather know if he has a timetable, or if they are just chillin and having fun doing funded research.

            I like LENR, but I want to know if I should sell my sailboat now or in 50 years. Who the he”ck” will buy it once LENR hits.

          • Fortyniner

            Sailing vessels were superseded technologically getting on for 200 years ago but people still use them for pleasure. The same goes for pleasure vessels driven by steam and diesel. Why would you make that comment other than to generate more subtle negativity?

        • Andreas Moraitis

          Have you ever invested in a startup company from the technology sector? It’s absolutely normal that you have to wait for a long time until sales start and revenues come in. Often it takes ten years or even more, and you must always anticipate that the company could run out of money. In comparison to that, Rossi and Industrial Heat seem to be well placed.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            It could not hurt to ask their projected timeline. Asking “are the 100kW, and 10MW ecats a possibility?” is a no brainer. Of course if LENR is legit we will see see Reactors in ALL these sizes and more in the future. Asking if they are possible is like asking Baskin and Robbins if they will carry Chocolate flavor.

            If you asked Tesla if Electricity could run in 115&220 he would have said said?

            I maintain I would only be asking one question. What is predicted timeline? At least if they give a virtual schedule they will know they are far behind when everyone says “what happened to the 2025 projected date?”.

          • MasterBlaster7

            10 years on a start up? Nah, a couple years. If you are looking at a 10 year start up…you are probably dealing with FDA regulations or some other regulation body. Or, you are deep in a research phase then have to deal with the FDA or another regulatory body. Take pebble watch start up….what was that…2 or 3 years?

      • psi2u2

        Yes, interesting how enemies can pose as friends, isn’t it?

    • Bernie koppenhofer

      Are you discribing hot fusion or cold fusion? (:

      • Bernie koppenhofer

        Would you call the government telling the patent office, do not issue patents for national security reasons a conspiracy?

        • MasterBlaster7

          I don’t think that was conspiracy….I think that was a reaction to the train wreck and embarrassment that followed the F&P media disaster. Even though the 200 labs that tried to reproduce the effect weren’t loading their hydrogen high enough. So, sad. Many of those negative result top scientists reputation rest on F&P being wrong…they are going to lose face when LENR is proven correct.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          “…Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events….”
          http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/07/12/313399/conspiracy-theorists-vs-govt-dupes/

          • Manuel Cruz

            Note, however, that psychology and sociology are not sciences in the slightest.

      • Marc Ellenbroek

        E-cat is just in its infant state. It will be possible to a bigger unit. Time will tell

        • bkrharold

          I agree. One the basic science behind LENR is understood, it will be possible to build larger units that may be safely controlled. Not to underestimate the ground breaking work done by Rossi, LENR is currently handicapped by our inability to scientifically explain the anomalous heat effect, and the obstinate refusal of the conventional science to perform the basic research that might explain it. This is why the work being done by Professor Hagelstein is so important. His is the voice of reason, which no self respecting scientist can ignore. Rossi’s strategy is to produce a commercial device, and let the scientists play catch up.

          • Gerard McEk

            Indeed, time that the academic world starts to rethink LENR. In my view Professor Dr. Santilli or Dr Mills may have got the basic solution why it can be possible that under certain circumstances Hydrogen can fuse with other atoms. Both have got theories that may allow that atoms can be so close to each other, that fusion may be possible, overcoming the hindering coulomb barriere. I would welcome that both start to think about this and try to extend their theories to LENR. I would gamble on the theory of Professor Santilli and the assumed toroidal atoms.

        • Jimr

          A more accurate answer from Rossi would be.
          #1 A possibility yes, reality no

          #2. Yes with a thousand 10k units

          #3 I don’ t see why 250,000 ecats could not be combined to achieve 1gigawatt of electricity.

          • Fortyniner

            In this context it is interesting to hear Eugene Mallove speaking about collusion between the US govt and academics to kill cold fusion and how certain other inconvenient technologies have been similarly suppressed.

            He was murdered shortly after this interview. Whether there is a connection or not remains an open question.

            Part 1 of 3:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYIK_OpxiZw

      • LENR G

        Here’s how this goes down.

        1. The Berlin wall comes down. I don’t know what finally takes the wall down. Widespread Nanors blowing minds in University labs? E-Cats in Home Depot? A dozen Defkalion validations from prestigious institutions? A Google barge VIP roll out? A League of Legends tournament sponsored by Brillouin’s S. Korean partner? I don’t know but first the wall must come down.

        2. Once the reaction is known to be real, a huge amount of time, money and expertise will go into understanding it, optimizing it and customizing it for every conceivable purpose for which it is the most economical solution (and that will be a lot of things). We will have big ones, little ones, massively parallel ones, electrical ones, automobile ones, refrigerator ones, HVAC ones, etc. You get the point.

        Conclusion: who cares if Rossi’s E-Cat can be easily scaled up. The ballgame here is to take down the wall. The rest will take care of itself in short order.

        • SiriusMan

          I agree with your reasoning about ‘bringing down the wall’.

          I would very much like to see the Nanor get into the hands of universities. How about packaging up 100 Nanors and sending them off to 100 different research institutions around the world? Include some simple instructions: e.g. Please input 100 mW power, then measure energy output.

          If the C.O.P. really is as high as reported, that would surely generate some healthy debate!

          • LENR G

            If the Nanors are reasonably priced we could, possibly, get aggressive as a community getting them into the hands of labs willing to test them.

            Maybe a Kickstarter to that effect.

        • spinit235

          it makes a huge difference whether its one or more. single control system, single not parallel series flow. less components. I could go on

          • Ophelia Rump

            No, not really, a plant is a plant. Dollars in, dollars out. When you are making several hundred percent profit, no one asks why you needed 120 thermostats.

        • Ophelia Rump

          What takes the wall down, is when profits start to roll in. When production and sales have real numbers and the customers are smiling. When there is a clear trail of satisfied customers, A line will circle first around the block, then around the globe.

          Reality trumps speculation, and Industrial Heat has a single mission, ship successful product.
          How many E-Cat plants are in the field? How many have been produced? What is the current rate of production?
          When we know these numbers the wall will fall.

          • LENR G

            I agree, with some caveats.

            I think it’s also possible to bring down the wall before a commercial product is widely available. For example, let’s say Google makes an announcement on 23 Mar at their mystery barge that claims an energy breakthrough. (I’m not letting this possible version of the future go until 24 Mar). “Cold fusion is real!”

            Well, unlike Industrial Heat etc., Google cannot be ignored. But they also will not be believed. So the key thing would have to be a working plant, open to scientists to investigate, along with the announcement.

            There would be equal parts amazement and scoffing, followed by some serious investigation, followed by confirmation by government and other reputable organizations. At that point it dawns on everyone that this is real and the wall comes down.

            Products might take another few years due to R&D, safety and other regulations, etc. But the world will have changed.

    • GreenWin

      In 1951 Project Matterhorn and the Stellarator began the quest for clean unlimited energy from the fusion of atoms – just like in the stars. The timeline to Nirvana was 20 years. Billions tax dollars allocated.

      In 1971 Western scientists decided they’d switch paths and follow Sakharov’s tokamak design for mag confinement. The quest for clean unlimited energy from the fusion of atoms – timeline to Nirvana was 20 MORE years. Billions of MORE tax dollars were allocated.

      In 1991 Tokamaks had made little progress on containing the destructive radiation from hot plasma. But hopes were high these niggling technical issues would be put aside and clean unlimited energy from fusion was just 20 MORE years away. This time with a new gadget and theory called inertial confinement. Hundreds of billions MORE tax dollars allocated.

      In 2012, the National Ignition Facility NIF – FAILED to obtain ignition promised to Congress years earlier. Hot fusion programs had taken 60 years and $250B tax dollars worldwide, and delivered not a single useable Watt of energy to the human race.

      Scientific American FUSION’S FALSE DAWN
      “[Hot fusion] was fundamentally different from dirty fossil fuels or dangerous uranium. It was beautiful and pure a permanent fix, an end to our thirst for energy. It was as close to the perfection of the cosmos as humans were ever likely to get. Now those visions are receding. Fusion is just one more option and one that will take decades of work to bear fruit. Ignition may be close, but the age of unlimited energy is not.” SA 2010
      http://cdn.journalism.cuny.edu

      In 2014 NIF used 2MJ energy IN to obtain 17.000001kJ OUT. It is nowhere near unity. Estimates that ITER may be complete and achieve unity in year 2025 are widely disbelieved by people tired of billion dollar boondoggles and white collar welfare.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Wow. That’s a lot of information in there. It is scary to think LENR might be another 50 years away, but when you show comparisons like that who really knows?

        I wish the Hot Fusion money could be diverted to Cold Fusion. So far we have seen little investment. $5 Million from Kimmel, and I’m guessing less than that on the Rossi device. NASA has allocated roughly 300k. A Billion Dollars would have Cold Fusionists spinning like a top with daily breakthroughs, and quick to market prototypes.

        Where are all the anonymous benefactors when you need them… Nudge , Wink.. Bill Gates.. Cough*?

        • MasterBlaster7

          Oh thats right…I misread something. For instance 3MW for large nuclear reactor..meant 3GW…largest power stations being 10GW not MW.

        • kdk

          Bill Gates is too busy saving us by spewing alumina into the atmosphere.

          • GreenWin

            I admire Bill Gates. His foundation has been very effective eliminating communicable disease. But he is wrong on global warming. And his traveling wave fission reactor will not compete against LENR.

      • Anthony Richards

        Yes, and nuclear power stations were going to give us all virtually free energy, weren’t they ?

        But the most promising thing seems to be Brillouin’s deal to convert a powers station to LENR – surely the world will take notice when that comes on stream !

    • Ophelia Rump

      This is not pathological skepticism, this is negative propaganda.

      The first is organic, the second contrived.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I am far from even being a skeptic. I know LENR is real. The problem I have with the interview this article is based is tha the questions are not very clever and are far from what some of us want to know.

        Honestly the first two questions (of three here) are..
        “Are the 100kW, and 10MW ecats a possibility?”

        Think of how dumb these questions are… That is like asking someone inventing bread if Salami and Chicken sandwiches are possibilities. If you are speaking of possibilities then even an alligator sandwich is a possibility. How could they not be possibilities?

        Please answer that.. How could question one and question two NOT be possibilities?

        Now once you see the first two questions are completely silly and redundant look at the third question…

        Of course it is also a possibility. Possibilities have a broad range. There is also a possibility someone will invent a car that runs off the steam of pig turd, but it is unlikely.

        This is NOT a skeptic stance (except the pig turd thing). It also not negative propaganda.. The only negative thing I said was that the Rossi device must still have a flaw he is not discussing (like his earlier stability issues). This is because he recently sold out for $11 million when he claims he was mass producing $2 million dollar units.

        This interviewer asked 3 totally ridiculous questions. The only question that I want to know is when will LENR/LANR/HHO/BLP be accepted by the general public and science.

        I think Andrea Rossi is likely to lose a LENR race now. Not because he is not further along, but because he is afraid to reveal his catalyst to a patent office, and he won’t legally be the inventor of his versions of LENR.

        Funny though I get the Pathoskeptic label from you when I have likely fought harder to promote LENR than 90% of the people here.

        If you look close my criticism was aimed at interviewers. I am saying the real question many want answered is simply “WHEN”…

        • LENR G

          I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Rossi sold his technology for $11M.

          The facts that we know are that Rossi sold his IP to Industrial Heat and subsequent to that sale over $11M of venture capital was raised by IH.

          The facts that we don’t know are what the terms of the IP purchase were, including any cash transfer, Rossi’s stock position in IH and any direct share of the revenue that goes to him.

          If you’re Rossi and you know your reactor works, you are less interested in any initial payout than you are in a healthy share of future revenue and profits (which you can reasonably assume to be huge)… plus the partner’s ability to execute and get your reactor to market.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Yes. This was discussed elsewhere a while back. He certainly would want a few points for each one sold.

            However $11 million to take any stake seems low if he has what is claimed. This is why I think he must still have issues in need of addressing. In 2011 his longest Demo was 18 hours and he forfeited a $15 million dollar Defkalion deal because he could not keep it stable for 48 hours.

            With the latest verification it seemed stable and they needed to shut it off themselves. I’d rather know what issues remain than the three questions poised here.

            I was only trying to make a quick point without going into storybook mode again.

          • bachcole

            In my mind it, it makes perfect sense that Rossi could have foregone a higher initial paycheck after having met Darden and Vaughn and the rest of the crew. He could have very well realized that money isn’t everything and that these people had the right attitude and sufficent experience. I SURE HOPE SO. In the right hands a hammer can be a useful tool; in the wrong hands it can be a deadly weapon. And I like Rossi’s character enough to think that this is probably what he did. Who do you want to design the future: General Electric or Cherokee Partners? Having checked out Cherokee Partners (I barely know Darden and Vaughn), this is a really EASY question for me to answer. And I am not even a conspiracy theorists who thinks that American big business is run by a bunch of meanie heads.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    So many people interview these guys, but nobody asks them what century they visualize their products in Home Depot/Walmart. Maybe IH has a gameplan that involves 25 years of R&D like Blacklight Power. Maybe Blacklight Power plans on another 25 years of R&D (Their one shot bang was not very impressive).

    R&D, Testing, Verification, Changing Format, Selling rights, Moving plant to other countries, R&D, Third Party Verification, testing, testing, R&D, Improving, Applying for Copyright, Changing Format, Selling rights, evasive answers, R&D, testing, maybe a report next year, R&D, verification, report maybe in a few years, 2011 is game changing year, 2012 is game changing year, oops, maybe in a decade or five decades, R&D, testing, Rejected reports, verification, Maybe another company can do it then, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, R&D, testing, changing format, verification, maybe report next year, maybe report in 5 years, maybe, maybe, maybe, wait, wait, wait.

    Let’s start with ecat. I have been behind Rossi since 2011. He even allegedly sold a few of the dang things even though we saw them months later where they were built. If they were so market ready then why sell out? $11 million when they allegedly sell for 2 million a container? It must have a major flaw still.

    But …

    Wait, R&D, testing, Verification, Changing Format, Selling rights, Moving plant to other countries, R&D, Third Party Verification, testing, testing, R&D, Improving, Applying for Copyright, Changing Format, Selling rights,
    evasive answers, R&D, testing, maybe a report next year, R&D, verification, report maybe in a few years, 2011 is game changing year, 2012 is game changing year, oops, maybe in a decade or five decades, R&D, testing, Rejected reports, verification, Maybe another company can do it then, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, R&D, testing, changing format, verification, maybe report next year, maybe report in 5 years, maybe, maybe, maybe, wait, wait, wait.

    Dictionary: Blacklight Process – The process of spending investment money on wine, women, and song until more investment money is needed. Wikipedia describes them as Frauds, and BLP regards Rossi IH as Frauds. The adage.. “Takes one to know one”…..

    I am a proponent of LENR, but my god… Blah, Blah, Blah… How much blather can they really spew?

    • bachcole

      Actually, it was two bangs, but it was still not impressive. In fact, it was a joke.

    • Bernie koppenhofer

      Are you discribing hot fusion or cold fusion? (:

    • GreenWin

      In 1951 Project Matterhorn and the Stellarator began the quest for clean unlimited energy from the fusion of atoms – just like in the stars. The timeline to Nirvana was 20 years. Billions tax dollars allocated.

      In 1971 Western scientists decided they’d switch paths and follow Sakharov’s tokamak design for mag confinement. The quest for clean unlimited energy from the fusion of atoms – timeline to Nirvana was 20 MORE years. Billions of MORE tax dollars were allocated.

      In 1991 Tokamaks had made little progress on containing the destructive radiation from hot plasma. But hopes were high these niggling technical issues would be put aside and clean unlimited energy from fusion was just 20 MORE years away. This time with a new gadget and theory called inertial confinement. Hundreds of billions MORE tax dollars allocated.

      In 2012, the National Ignition Facility NIF – FAILED to obtain ignition promised to Congress years earlier. Hot fusion programs had taken 60 years and $250B tax dollars worldwide, and delivered not a single useable Watt of energy to the human race.

      Scientific American FUSION’S FALSE DAWN
      “[Hot fusion] was fundamentally different from dirty fossil fuels or dangerous uranium. It was beautiful and pure a permanent fix, an end to our thirst for energy. It was as close to the perfection of the cosmos as humans were ever likely to get. Now those visions are receding. Fusion is just one more option and one that will take decades of work to bear fruit. Ignition may be close, but the age of unlimited energy is not.” SA 2010
      http://cdn.journalism.cuny.edu

      In 2014 NIF used 2MJ energy IN to obtain 17.000001kJ OUT. It is nowhere near unity. Estimates that ITER may be complete and achieve unity in year 2025 are widely disbelieved by people tired of billion dollar boondoggles and white collar welfare.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        Wow. That’s a lot of information in there. It is scary to think LENR might be another 50 years away, but when you show comparisons like that who really knows?

        I wish the Hot Fusion money could be diverted to Cold Fusion. So far we have seen little investment. $5 Million from Kimmel, and I’m guessing less than that on the Rossi device. NASA has allocated roughly 300k. A Billion Dollars would have Cold Fusionists spinning like a top with daily breakthroughs, and quick to market prototypes.

        Where are all the anonymous benefactors when you need them… Nudge , Wink.. Bill Gates.. Cough*?

        • bachcole

          I read through Google News with news categories about “cold fusion”, “energy crisis”, “LENR”, “alternative energy”, “E-Cat”, and the usual categories, and ANY time I find a news item where I think that I could fit in a comment, I do so and I mention that LENR is on it’s way. Even without our pushing, it is going to happen. With our pushing, it will happen sooner. I am on a mission; we all should be on a mission to push LENR where ever and when ever.

          Caution: Don’t bother responding to someone who you discover to be a skeptopath. It is a disease; they can’t help themselves; and it does no good whatsoever to respond to them. Hopefully they will complain to their friends and neighbors about how awful those LENR cultists are, to spread the word in their own way.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            I took a different stance and have actively participated in science forums arguing against a number of Pathoskeptics. I think I have turned a few of them even if they don’t admit it.

            It is also not just them I respond to, but any who read their Gibberish. I have entire Rossi defences copied into my desktop for the usual Jibes they take at him normally based on Krivit. Here is a go to one as example for if they say he swindled the DOD as Krivit claimed,
            “in the year 2000 LTI agreed with DOD to test an industrialized version of a prototype working by the Seebeck Effect: such prototype, made by myself in 1000 hours, therefore extremely expensive, had reached 20% of efficiency; we had to make an industrialized version, economically sustainable, but I have not been able to do it, in fact the efficiency of the thermoelectric modules after industrialized production fall down to 5%, made by modules of 2 to 5 Watts of power, destined to be combined to make any power. The research has been made with the clear knowledge of the fact that the passage from a manufacturing made handycraft by me to an industrialized version could not work. The honesty of our work has been so clear, that DOD continued for years to work with LTI for other issues.”

            I’d pretty it up more, but I have dozens of things like that to save typing and finding them again.

            I’m on the same mission. I have sent emails to W5, 60 Minutes, Hybrid Manufacturing Scientists. I have exchanged ideas with Brian Josephson, and many academics. His is still the ONLY mention of LENR in Nature Magazine (where we want LENR) in regards to Fleischmann passing.

            I signed the LENR petition way back when, and have become a member to several websites just to comment on LENR even though I will likely never return to their website. I have a Youtube account and comment on LENR videos posted as well.

            If it were Rossi just on his own. I might be less of an enthusiast, but not only does a Fraud Scenario regarding him rub me the wrong way, but we are seeing LENR devices by at least 18-20 other unrelated entities. I could even name some who are not on our master list of names like Chow who published plans for getting his LENR to work years ago on an open source LENR website.

            Keep up the good fight. Bachcole.

          • bachcole

            To tell you the truth, friendlyprogrammer, I don’t correspond with skeptopaths because it makes me angry, and being angry hurts my feelings and upset me and makes me lose sleep. But I also think that it is useless and the time saved gives me more time to post elsewhere.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            It has made me research answers and learn things I might never have known. I feel sorry for these people as opposed to anger. In other words; I have nothing better to do on occasion. Cheers..

        • bkrharold

          There is a reason that progress on LENR is taking so long. There are many powerful political forces that stand to lose $billions from once LENR is adopted as our new energy source. They have prevailed for over 30 years, starving it of funds for basic science, and punishing any scientist who dares venture into the field.
          I take heart from the current changes going on in many states to legalize marijuana for recreational use. I realize these are two very different topics, but the reason that marijuana has been suppressed for so long is the same. Powerful industries stand to lose $billions. In the case of marijuana, it is the Prison Industrial complex, which imprisons so many innocent nonviolent minor drug offenders, the Alcohol and Pharmaceutical industries, whose products cause far more harm to society than marijuana, and the timber, building materials, and plastics industries, which will benefit from the recent legalization of industrial hemp in the US. Now we are breaking through this veil ignorance about marijuana, we should unite in the struggle for our birthright, LENR, our clean energy future. A future in which our children and grandchildren will thrive, in a clean sustainable abundant world.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            I agree the Government is trying to protect against sudden economic change. They do not accept any Patents related to Cold Fusion as an example, and yet I am sure Dennis Bushnell, The Chief Research Scientist at NASA Langley one of The United States Premier Science Organizations must have the ear of the White House. He has been a LENR advocate for years now, and yet we do not see him dismissed as a crank by NASA and sent to Siberia.

            I believe the Government is taking steps to lessen economic panic when LENR is unavoidable.

            You are right, but I think LENR is making some headroom and feel a lot of optimism is warranted.

          • GreenWin

            Mitigating an economic panic that would make the crash of 1929 look puny is underway. Western culture is based on fossil/fission energy and that will be phased out as LENR arrives. It’s a tough problem, but I’ve seen some highly qualified people at work on it. And eliminating the abuses of the petrodollar will lower debt and strengthen dollar value – long term.

        • kdk

          Bill Gates is too busy saving us by spewing alumina into the atmosphere.

          • GreenWin

            I admire Bill Gates. His foundation has been very effective eliminating communicable disease. But he is wrong on global warming. And his traveling wave fission reactor will not compete against LENR.

          • bachcole

            Please show me the data that shows that Bill Gates has eliminated any communicable diseases. Going through the motions of doing things that people THINK eliminate communicable diseases does not count. I have eliminated communicable disease in the Bird household by building health with proper and excellent diet and lifestyle. The effectiveness of vaccinations is debated hotly, but there is very little debate whether vaccines build health. Given the crapola that are included in vaccines, there is no way that they build health. They may make the individual immune to the target disease; that is debated.

            Just because someone is unsurpassed in building a financially successful software empire does not mean that his core operating system is worth a crap and does not mean that he knows what to do with his money when he decides to become a philanthropist.

      • Anthony Richards

        Yes, and nuclear power stations were going to give us all virtually free energy, weren’t they ?

        But the most promising thing seems to be Brillouin’s deal to convert a powers station to LENR – surely the world will take notice when that comes on stream !

    • Ophelia Rump

      This is not pathological skepticism, this is negative propaganda.

      The first is organic, the second contrived.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I am far from even being a skeptic. I know LENR is real. The problem I have with the interview this article is based is tha the questions are not very clever and are far from what some of us want to know.

        Honestly the first two questions (of three here) are..
        “Are the 100kW, and 10MW ecats a possibility?”

        Think of how dumb these questions are… That is like asking someone inventing bread if Salami and Chicken sandwiches are possibilities. If you are speaking of possibilities then even an alligator sandwich is a possibility. How could they not be possibilities?

        Please answer that.. How could question one and question two NOT be possibilities?

        Now once you see the first two questions are completely silly and redundant look at the third question…

        Of course it is also a possibility. Possibilities have a broad range. There is also a possibility someone will invent a car that runs off the steam of pig turd, but it is unlikely.

        This is NOT a skeptic stance (except the pig turd thing). It also not negative propaganda.. The only negative thing I said was that the Rossi device must still have a flaw he is not discussing (like his earlier stability issues). This is because he recently sold out for $11 million when he claims he was mass producing $2 million dollar units.

        This interviewer asked 3 totally ridiculous questions. The only question that I want to know is when will LENR/LANR/HHO/BLP be accepted by the general public and science.

        I think Andrea Rossi is likely to lose a LENR race now. Not because he is not further along, but because he is afraid to reveal his catalyst to a patent office, and he won’t legally be the inventor of his versions of LENR.

        Funny though I get the Pathoskeptic label from you when I have likely fought harder to promote LENR than 90% of the people here.

        If you look close my criticism was aimed at interviewers. I am saying the real question many want answered is simply “WHEN”…

        • I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Rossi sold his technology for $11M.

          The facts that we know are that Rossi sold his IP to Industrial Heat and subsequent to that sale over $11M of venture capital was raised by IH.

          The facts that we don’t know are what the terms of the IP purchase were, including any cash transfer, Rossi’s stock position in IH and any direct share of the revenue that goes to him.

          If you’re Rossi and you know your reactor works, you are less interested in any initial payout than you are in a healthy share of future revenue and profits (which you can reasonably assume to be huge)… plus the partner’s ability to execute and get your reactor to market.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Yes. This was discussed elsewhere a while back. He certainly would want a few points for each one sold.

            However $11 million to take any stake seems low if he has what is claimed. This is why I think he must still have issues in need of addressing. In 2011 his longest Demo was 18 hours and he forfeited a $15 million dollar Defkalion deal because he could not keep it stable for 48 hours.

            With the latest verification it seemed stable and they needed to shut it off themselves. I’d rather know what issues remain than the three questions poised here.

            I was only trying to make a quick point without going into storybook mode again.

          • bachcole

            In my mind it, it makes perfect sense that Rossi could have foregone a higher initial paycheck after having met Darden and Vaughn and the rest of the crew. He could have very well realized that money isn’t everything and that these people had the right attitude and sufficent experience. I SURE HOPE SO. In the right hands a hammer can be a useful tool; in the wrong hands it can be a deadly weapon. And I like Rossi’s character enough to think that this is probably what he did. Who do you want to design the future: General Electric or Cherokee Partners? Having checked out Cherokee Partners (I barely know Darden and Vaughn), this is a really EASY question for me to answer. And I am not even a conspiracy theorists who thinks that American big business is run by a bunch of meanie heads.

    • bachcole

      Actually, friendlyprogrammer, we the peanut gallery are the ones spewing blather. Page after page of speculation, waiting, BS, even poetry now and then, more speculation, futuristic speculation, investigative journalism, speculation, feelings, analysis, speculation, etc. The real actors in this drama are actually doing something (or not), and the peanut gallery is going ape-shit, yelling, speculating, discussing, waiting, more discussing, more speculating, imagining, throwing popcorn at each other, speculating, throwing soda pop at each other, etc. etc. etc.

      Some members of the peanut gallery are joining the actors and actually doing something, like woopy Some members of the peanut gallery are sending messages to politicians, utility company executives, news outlets, friends, etc. Otherwise the peanut gallery is an explosion of blather. I’m still enjoying it, so I am still here, waiting for more real news, blathering away, just like you.

  • jousterusa

    The big question is, when is he expecting to have a functioning thermal converter, even for the small 10kW home E-Cats?

    • Ophelia Rump

      I would not count on that ever happening. It is a matter of steam temperature and pressure to drive an engine, not so much the efficiency as the pressure per temperature increase needed to gain efficiency.

      Now a single Hot-Cat operating at 150 Celsius and COP 6 or higher, that would be profitable even driving an old fashioned steam engine at 30% efficiency. Very profitable, for the little guy. From tens of thousands to millions in under a decade.
      But in my heart I know that the big guys always get to hoard the opportunities for themselves. Don’t count on ever seeing something small scale and massively profitable hit the market.

      • Guru

        Dear Ophelia, best of best triple action steam engines had 20% efficiency, not 30%

        • Ophelia Rump

          Guru, thank you for the enlightenment, I did not realize how much steam engines had advanced with modern materials and design.

          To date, Cyclone has over 1,000 hours of running and testing our engines, has achieved verified thermal efficiencies above 30%, and is very close to putting the first of these engine models into small-scale commercial production.

          With changes in piston design, development of

          a compact steam generator and compressor, and the

          use of buffers for the steam and the condenser, the

          Swedish Ranotor system is promising efficiencies

          approaching 35%.

  • jousterusa

    The big question is, when is he expecting to have a functioning thermal converter, even for the small 10kW home E-Cats?

    • Ophelia Rump

      I would not count on that ever happening. It is a matter of steam temperature and pressure to drive an engine, not so much the efficiency as the pressure per temperature increase needed to gain efficiency.

      Now a single Hot-Cat operating at 150 Celsius and COP 6 or higher, that would be profitable even driving an old fashioned steam engine at 30% efficiency. Very profitable, for the little guy. From tens of thousands to millions in under a decade.
      But in my heart I know that the big guys always get to hoard the opportunities for themselves. Don’t count on ever seeing something small scale and massively profitable hit the market.

      • Guru

        Dear Ophelia, best of best triple action steam engines had 20% efficiency, not 30%

        • Ophelia Rump

          Guru, thank you for the enlightenment, I did not realize how much steam engines had advanced with modern materials and design. I did say old fashoned. I was referring to piston as opposed to turbine, not resurrecting some ancient hulk.

          To date, Cyclone has over 1,000 hours of running and testing our engines, has achieved verified thermal efficiencies above 30%, and is very close to putting the first of these engine models into small-scale commercial production.

          With changes in piston design, development of
          a compact steam generator and compressor, and the
          use of buffers for the steam and the condenser, the
          Swedish Ranotor system is promising efficiencies
          approaching 35%.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Guru, thank you for the enlightenment, I did not realize how much steam engines had advanced with modern materials and design. I did say old fashoned. I was referring to piston as opposed to turbine, not resurrecting some ancient hulk.

          To date, Cyclone has over 1,000 hours of running and testing our engines, has achieved verified thermal efficiencies above 30%, and is very close to putting the first of these engine models into small-scale commercial production.

          With changes in piston design, development of
          a compact steam generator and compressor, and the
          use of buffers for the steam and the condenser, the
          Swedish Ranotor system is promising efficiencies
          approaching 35%.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Why, yes, yes I did say solid state, once the science is solid. I stand behind my statement of solid science solidifying solid state, with solidarity sir!

  • Lu

    It would be interesting to find out if the 1MW plants are still available for purchase and if they have changed substantially since IH has acquired control of the technology. Also it would be interesting to find out if IH has sold any of these 1MW plants.

    After all it’s been well over 2 years since Rossi’s 1MW demo and presumably first sales. Come to think of it, there should be invited guest visits to operational plants (RSVP only) by now. Somehow these Rossi claims have gotten dropped.

    If Rossi cannot answer these questions since he’s now CTO, perhaps IH can answer these questions.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I think the original 1MW plants were warm-cats not hot-cats. I think IH is only doing hot-cats.

      • Lu

        So you don’t really know?

        The question is concerning the 1MW plants that Rossi is selling, has solid, and promised visits to….

        • MasterBlaster7

          Well, yah. Since I don’t work at IH I can’t say that I 100% know. This is based on all the reading I have done on Rossi for the last 2 years.

  • Lu

    It would be interesting to find out if the 1MW plants are still available for purchase and if they have changed substantially since IH has acquired control of the technology. Also it would be interesting to find out if IH has sold any of these 1MW plants.

    After all it’s been well over 2 years since Rossi’s 1MW demo and presumably first sales. Come to think of it, there should be invited guest visits to operational plants (RSVP only) by now. Somehow these Rossi claims have gotten dropped.

    If Rossi cannot answer these questions since he’s now CTO, perhaps IH can answer these questions.

    • MasterBlaster7

      I think the original 1MW plants were warm-cats not hot-cats. I think IH is only doing hot-cats.

      • Lu

        So you don’t really know?

        The question is concerning the 1MW plants that Rossi is selling, has solid, and promised visits to….

        • MasterBlaster7

          Well, yah. Since I don’t work at IH I can’t say that I 100% know. This is based on all the reading I have done on Rossi for the last 2 years.

  • MasterBlaster7

    So, if your logic holds….how is it that Bouillon contracted with the Koreans to retrofit a stranded asset power plant. It is very similar tech.

  • Marc Ellenbroek

    E-cat is just in its infant state. It will be possible to a bigger unit. Time will tell

    • bkrharold

      I agree. One the basic science behind LENR is understood, it will be possible to build larger units that may be safely controlled. Not to underestimate the ground breaking work done by Rossi, LENR is currently handicapped by our inability to scientifically explain the anomalous heat effect, and the obstinate refusal of the conventional science to perform the basic research that might explain it. This is why the work being done by Professor Hagelstein is so important. His is the voice of reason, which no self respecting scientist can ignore. Rossi’s strategy is to produce a commercial device, and let the scientists play catch up.

      • Gerard McEk

        Indeed, time that the academic world starts to rethink LENR. In my view Professor Dr. Santilli or Dr Mills may have got the basic solution why it can be possible that under certain circumstances Hydrogen can fuse with other atoms. Both have got theories that may allow that atoms can be so close to each other, that fusion may be possible, overcoming the hindering coulomb barriere. I would welcome that both start to think about this and try to extend their theories to LENR. I would gamble on the theory of Professor Santilli and the assumed toroidal atoms.

  • Fortyniner

    While it is obviously possible to see conspiracies where there may be none (IMHO the safest course in general) it is also possible to go much too far in the opposite direction by disregarding the fundamentally psychopathic nature of the controlling elite, and what they are capable of. In the former case you are mistaken, but in the latter case you render yourself defenseless, possibly even complicit with, the hostile actions of others.

    As a case in point, does it seem likely that the recent mysterious deaths of 8 senior bankers this year (others have linked up to 20 recent banker deaths to whatever is going on) and one missing investigative journalist looking into this were a coincidence? If not, wouldn’t a criminal conspiracy seem to be the best fit explanation? I for one would be interested to hear other explanations that fit the facts given at the following links:

    http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/archives/10482#more-10482

    http://beforeitsnews.com/economics-and-politics/2014/02/at-least-20-dead-bankers-celente-alex-jones-2461638.html

    History is littered with conspiracies on the part of governments and more recently on the part of governments and corporations working together. The story of cold fusion is and will be no exception.

  • Warthog

    I’m sure that by percentage that there were as many “Newton-grade” intellects as today. But very few of those could reach a level of education to make an impact because a huge portion of the population was scratching in the dirt to provide food. Most people are not aware of the HUGE increases in the efficiency of agriculture freeing up a far larger fraction of the population for other productive activities…..including thought. And that process is still happening today in the third world. LENR and automation will only increase the speed and breadth of that phenomenon.

  • US_Citizen71

    I think the up scaling of the Hot Cat likely has numerous gremlins. One of which has been touched on by other posters, the increase of thermal mass. If the reactor was scaled up evenly in all dimensions the increase in thermal mass would make the core temperature increasingly more difficult to control. Start up would be longer and shutdown could become impossible at a certain size due to the heat from the core being able to maintain reaction temperature even with cooling fluid running over it. One could try then only increasing the length of the reactor. The Hot Cat appears to be about 50 cm so increasing it to 500 cm should theoretically increase the output by 10. Beyond making refueling more difficult and limiting where such a device could be installed, the increased length would require longer heating coils to control the reactor which would have an increased resistance. The increased resistance would require a redesign of the control circuitry and power supply since a higher resistance would act differently to the same voltage. This change might lower the COP or even make it difficult to establish the same EM field if that is what the high frequency proprietary signal does.

    For those that have issue understanding the problems scale can have on a reaction here is a simple experiment. You need a couple boxes of sparklers. If you light one it burns down slowly in the manner we are all use to seeing. Bundle 10 or 20 together with sewing thread with one sticking out an inch or so to act as a fuse. Stick the bundle in the ground where there is no close by flammables. Light the one sticking out and step back. When the one sticking out burns down to the bundle the whole bundle will go off in about a second like an old time flash powder camera flash. The increased thermal mass causes the reaction to speed up. Works best with colored sparklers.

  • Bernie777

    Dr. Peter Hagelstein: “Warning. Working in this field (LENR) at this time can destroy your career. Being interested may be damaging to your personal and private life.” Why would Dr. Hagelstein say such a thing?

    • GreenWin

      A “Dirty Tricks Team?”

    • Fibber McGourlick

      Based on his personal knowledge and experience of the effect.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Maybe he is sleeping on the couch, because he keeps talking about LENR, and it has caused him to become a social pariah in academic circles. Wives can be touchy about becoming outcasts over academic arguments.

      There is only one thing to be done, the boys need to take him out for a few rounds and bring him home late and stinking, that will make her think twice about the old cold shoulder.

    • Barry8

      It quite often seems he is making a statement more about himself. It must be a heavy burden to be the Lone CF Wolf at MIT.
      There are two horse races going on. One is the product to market race, the other is the theoretical race. I think PH struggles with the why of CF. He mentioned of all the 1000 theories of why excess heat, there are the top ten. Storm’s cracks and Widow Larson (which I don’t pretend to understand) being right up there, PH has his own theory which he said is believed by one and a half people. He also seems to be discouraged by all of the CF people who were there in the beginning (1989) are retiring or passing away.

    • Omega Z

      The hierarchy has determined LENR/CF as junk Science. Taboo.

      If you go against the authorities of power, They tend to black ball you. Only those who have achieved many years of Tenure & at the tail end of their careers are encouraged to get involved. It is not recommended for the young.

      Similar to sports. Break the coaches rules & get benched. Repeated infractions result in being kicked off the team all together. You find this in many areas of society.

      • Bernie777

        Good answer, but the examples you give are all based on subjective reasons, LENR has experimental facts to back it up. Experimental success trumps theory, does not seem to be working with LENR. Maybe too much money involved?

        • Donk970

          Like any other religion the religion of fusion physics doesn’t need facts to know that LENR is junk science.

        • bachcole

          Bernie777, you dismiss subjective reasons as though they don’t matter. For example, people are very busy. They are NOT going to spend time investigating something if they think that it is junk science. This is subjective. That is also probably the best reason why enthusiasm for cold fusion does not spread. People are afraid of losing their jobs. Another good subjective reason they won’t look closely at cold fusion. I could go on and on. People ARE subjective. We are little finite foci of subjectivity.

          • Bernie777

            Come on bachcole…..we are not talking about “ordinary people” we are talking about editors of magazines and newspapers and very prestigious scientific journals, they form the opinions of “ordinary people”. Are you trying to be cantankerous? (:

          • friendlyprogrammer

            It has made me research answers and learn things I might never have known. I feel sorry for these people as opposed to anger. In other words; I have nothing better to do on occasion. Cheers..

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Dr. Peter Hagelstein: “Warning. Working in this field (LENR) at this time can destroy your career. Being interested may be damaging to your personal and private life.” Why would Dr. Hagelstein say such a thing?

    • bachcole

      Because it is true.

      I am not sure about the interested part.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Why is it true?

        • bachcole

          I guess when people won’t talk to you in the hallway, that is a clue. When you can’t get funding and authority figures call it “pathological science”, that is a clue. When Peter H. can’t even get his cold fusion weekend seminars to be real class, that is a clue. Any more questions?

          • winebuff

            Does anyone know how many people showed up at MIT for the weeklong class? Was it more than last year?

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            bachcole….my question was sarcastic! Why should such a man be afraid for his career and private life? Is there something drastically wrong with our society when a man of his abilities is afraid of “damaging to your personal and private life” for his work with LENR.

          • bachcole

            Dear Bernie, I often write “(sarcastic)” when I think that there might be some question since it is sometimes difficult to tell what someone means with text.

            I agree. I have been saying this for years. It starts in middle school where the popularity dramas start. And eventually some people go on to killing themselves because of it in high school.

    • GreenWin

      A “Dirty Tricks Team?”

    • Fibber McGourlick

      Based on his personal knowledge and experience of the effect.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Maybe he is sleeping on the couch, because he keeps talking about LENR, and it has caused him to become a social pariah in academic circles. Wives can be touchy about becoming outcasts over academic arguments.

      There is only one thing to be done, the boys need to take him out for a few rounds and bring him home late and stinking, that will make her think twice about the old cold shoulder.

    • It quite often seems he is making a statement more about himself. It must be a heavy burden to be the Lone CF Wolf at MIT.
      There are two horse races going on. One is the product to market race, the other is the theoretical race. I think PH struggles with the why of CF. He mentioned of all the 1000 theories of why excess heat, there are the top ten. Storm’s cracks and Widow Larson (which I don’t pretend to understand) being right up there, PH has his own theory which he said is believed by one and a half people. He also seems to be discouraged by all of the CF people who were there in the beginning (1989) are retiring or passing away.

    • Omega Z

      The hierarchy has determined LENR/CF as junk Science. Taboo.

      If you go against the authorities of power, They tend to black ball you. Only those who have achieved many years of Tenure & at the tail end of their careers are encouraged to get involved. It is not recommended for the young.

      Similar to sports. Break the coaches rules & get benched. Repeated infractions result in being kicked off the team all together. You find this in many areas of society.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Good answer, but the examples you give are all based on subjective reasons, LENR has experimental facts to back it up. Experimental success trumps theory, does not seem to be working with LENR. Maybe too much money involved?

        • Donk970

          Like any other religion the religion of fusion physics doesn’t need facts to know that LENR is junk science.

        • bachcole

          Bernie777, you dismiss subjective reasons as though they don’t matter. For example, people are very busy. They are NOT going to spend time investigating something if they think that it is junk science. This is subjective. That is also probably the best reason why enthusiasm for cold fusion does not spread. People are afraid of losing their jobs. Another good subjective reason they won’t look closely at cold fusion. I could go on and on. People ARE subjective. We are little finite foci of subjectivity.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Come on bachcole…..we are not talking about “ordinary people” we are talking about editors of magazines and newspapers and very prestigious scientific journals, they form the opinions of “ordinary people”. Are you trying to be cantankerous? (:

          • bachcole

            The appeal to authority is not science. They still put their pants (or panties) on one leg at a time. They still have limited time. They don’t like their magazine to tank because they ran an article about a “disproven” science. When it comes to matters inside of the dominent paradigm, they most certainly form the opinions of so-called ordinary people. When it comes to matters OUTSIDE of the dominent paradigm, they are just as stupid and narrow minded as the next person.

  • Anthony Richards

    “I cannot recall ever seeing a steam pleasure craft”

    You need to go on the River Thames above London on a summer’s day, unless they’ve all been washed out to sea on the floods ! Or Lake Windermere, or……..L Tahoe, surely ?

    • friendlyprogrammer

      I have 7 boats if you include canoes and a boathouse on a well traveled Trent River Canal System. There is a Steam Boat in Gravenhurst Ontario a few hundred miles away from my cottage which I have seen photos of. I see more boats than most is what I am saying, and steam craft appear to be mostly gone. I have a Lift Lock 200 yards from my Boathouse in Hastings Ontario.

      I cannot recall seeing one in real life, but I am, aware they are there. Same with paddleboats. I was on a fake paddleboat, but never a real one.

  • Bernie777

    Why is it true?

  • friendlyprogrammer

    I took a different stance and have actively participated in science forums arguing against a number of Pathoskeptics. I think I have turned a few of them even if they don’t admit it.

    It is also not just them I respond to, but any who read their Gibberish. I have entire Rossi defences copied into my desktop for the usual Jibes they take at him normally based on Krivit. Here is a go to one as example for if they say he swindled the DOD as Krivit claimed,
    “in the year 2000 LTI agreed with DOD to test an industrialized version of a prototype working by the Seebeck Effect: such prototype, made by myself in 1000 hours, therefore extremely expensive, had reached 20% of efficiency; we had to make an industrialized version, economically sustainable, but I have not been able to do it, in fact the efficiency of the thermoelectric modules after industrialized production fall down to 5%, made by modules of 2 to 5 Watts of power, destined to be combined to make any power. The research has been made with the clear knowledge of the fact that the passage from a manufacturing made handycraft by me to an industrialized version could not work. The honesty of our work has been so clear, that DOD continued for years to work with LTI for other issues.”

    I’d pretty it up more, but I have dozens of things like that to save typing and finding them again.

    I’m on the same mission. I have sent emails to W5, 60 Minutes, Hybrid Manufacturing Scientists. I have exchanged ideas with Brian Josephson, and many academics. His is still the ONLY mention of LENR in Nature Magazine (where we want LENR) in regards to Fleischmann passing.

    I signed the LENR petition way back when, and have become a member to several websites just to comment on LENR even though I will likely never return to their website. I have a Youtube account and comment on LENR videos posted as well.

    If it were Rossi just on his own. I might be less of an enthusiast, but not only does a Fraud Scenario regarding him rub me the wrong way, but we are seeing LENR devices by at least 18-20 other unrelated entities. I could even name some who are not on our master list of names like Chow who published plans for getting his LENR to work years ago on an open source LENR website.

    Keep up the good fight. Bachcole.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    I agree the Government is trying to protect against sudden economic change. They do not accept any Patents related to Cold Fusion as an example, and yet I am sure Dennis Bushnell, The Chief Research Scientist at NASA Langley one of The United States Premier Science Organizations must have the ear of the White House. He has been a LENR advocate for years now, and yet we do not see him dismissed as a crank by NASA and sent to Siberia.

    I believe the Government is taking steps to lessen economic panic when LENR is unavoidable.

    You are right, but I think LENR is making some headroom and feel a lot of optimism is warranted.

  • GreenWin

    Mitigating an economic panic that would make the crash of 1929 look puny is underway. Western culture is based on fossil/fission energy and that will be phased out as LENR arrives. It’s a tough problem, but I’ve seen some highly qualified people at work on it. And eliminating the abuses of the petrodollar will lower debt and strengthen dollar value – long term.

  • Donk970

    Probably a simple surface area to volume issue. The reactor volume would go up by cubes while the surface area goes up by squares. At some point you can’t cool the device well enough to keep it from burning up.

  • Donk970

    Probably a simple surface area to volume issue. The reactor volume would go up by cubes while the surface area goes up by squares. At some point you can’t cool the device well enough to keep it from burning up.

  • Jimr

    A more accurate answer from Rossi would be.
    #1 A possibility yes, reality no

    #2. Yes with a thousand 10k units

    #3 I don’ t see why 250,000 ecats could not be combined to achieve 1gigawatt of electricity.

  • Here’s how this goes down.

    1. The Berlin wall comes down. I don’t know what finally takes the wall down. Widespread Nanors blowing minds in University labs? E-Cats in Home Depot? A dozen Defkalion validations from prestigious institutions? A Google barge VIP roll out? A League of Legends tournament sponsored by Brillouin’s S. Korean partner? I don’t know but first the wall must come down.

    2. Once the reaction is known to be real, a huge amount of time, money and expertise will go into understanding it, optimizing it and customizing it for every conceivable purpose for which it is the most economical solution (and that will be a lot of things). We will have big ones, little ones, massively parallel ones, electrical ones, automobile ones, refrigerator ones, HVAC ones, etc. You get the point.

    Conclusion: who cares if Rossi’s E-Cat can be easily scaled up. The ballgame here is to take down the wall. The rest will take care of itself in short order.

    • SiriusMan

      I agree with your reasoning about ‘bringing down the wall’.

      I would very much like to see the Nanor get into the hands of universities. How about packaging up 100 Nanors and sending them off to 100 different research institutions around the world? Include some simple instructions: e.g. Please input 100 mW power, then measure energy output.

      If the C.O.P. really is as high as reported, that would surely generate some healthy debate!

      • If the Nanors are reasonably priced we could, possibly, get aggressive as a community getting them into the hands of labs willing to test them.

        Maybe a Kickstarter to that effect.

        • bachcole

          I would even be willing to kick in some dollars for that, assuming that the price were not too step per nanor.

          signed: Roger McScrooge

    • Ophelia Rump

      What takes the wall down, is when profits start to roll in. When production and sales have real numbers and the customers are smiling. When there is a clear trail of satisfied customers, A line will circle first around the block, then around the globe.

      Reality trumps speculation, and Industrial Heat has a single mission, ship successful product.
      How many E-Cat plants are in the field? How many have been produced? What is the current rate of production?
      When we know these numbers the wall will fall.

      • I agree, with some caveats.

        I think it’s also possible to bring down the wall before a commercial product is widely available. For example, let’s say Google makes an announcement on 23 Mar at their mystery barge that claims an energy breakthrough. (I’m not letting this possible version of the future go until 24 Mar). “Cold fusion is real!”

        Well, unlike Industrial Heat etc., Google cannot be ignored. But they also will not be believed. So the key thing would have to be a working plant, open to scientists to investigate, along with the announcement.

        There would be equal parts amazement and scoffing, followed by some serious investigation, followed by confirmation by government and other reputable organizations. At that point it dawns on everyone that this is real and the wall comes down.

        Products might take another few years due to R&D, safety and other regulations, etc. But the world will have changed.

  • winebuff

    Does anyone know how many people showed up at MIT for the weeklong class? Was it more than last year?

  • Bernie777

    bachcole….my question was sarcastic! Why should such a man be afraid for his career and private life? Is there something drastically wrong with our society when a man of his abilities is afraid of “damaging to your personal and private life” for his work with LENR.

  • spinit235

    it makes a huge difference whether its one or more. single control system, single not parallel series flow. less components. I could go on

    • Ophelia Rump

      No, not really, a plant is a plant. Dollars in, dollars out. When you are making several hundred percent profit, no one asks why you needed 120 thermostats.

      How many cylinders does your car have?