Rossi Answers Questions on Independent Test

As we await the publication of the report from the long term testing of the E-Cat by a the third party group that Andrea Rossi has talked about for so long (hopefully to be concluded in the next few weeks), Rossi has answered a few questions about the testing on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

i. Q. The test made in March 2013, reported on Arxive, has given specific experience to the professors, that now surely have corrected and improved their knowledge of the E-Cat: did this create discussions between you and the T.I.P.?

A: no.

ii. Q. did the professors of the third indipendent party that are making the validation test make the set up of the E-.Cat themselves ?

A: yes.

iii.Q. did they bring all the instrumentation to make the measurements?

A: yes.

iv. Q.did thay put also instrumentation that can measure also direct current , if any, consumed by the E-Cat ?

A: yes.

From the answers given above it appears that Rossi has some knowledge of the test setup and equipment involved, although he states that he was not involved in advising the team about the protocols to use. I hope it won’t be too much longer until we get to read the results of this important test — it sounds like there is a lot riding on it from the perspective of Industrial Heat. My guess is that the results of the test will determine how much interest and potential investment and cooperation that IH will receive, and investment and partnerships will be important factors in shaping IH’s industrialization strategy.

  • Gerard McEk

    I would ask Andrea Rossi if the new party who does the tests now is the same as the testing group of 2013.
    If I were IH, I would invite a well established specialized company like KEMA in the Netherlands to do this.

    • kahuna

      Ask him yourself. Anyone can post on his site. He has responded to me several times.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Someone asked him this question at some point and his answer was that it’s the same team except expanded and now has European, American and Asian members.

  • Mark

    Good topic
    I would like to know what else needs to be checked in order
    to silence the most pedantic sceptics

    • Fortyniner

      Stopping their paychecks.

      • bachcole

        I prefer your first answer, 49er. “Stopping their paychecks.” But I would include, “Starting their paychecks.” People don’t get hired if they disagree with the dominant paradigm. This is not to say that those not hiring the dissidents are malicious meanie heads conspiring, although they may be. The people doing the hiring simply think that the dissidents are crazy or stupid or incompetent or “don’t fit in” or something along that line. The potential employees may even see this years ahead of time and elect to see things according to the dominant paradigm. Although I am not a Marxist and I do not believe in materialism, it would be very foolish to think that this does not happen a lot, enough to bias individual perspectives to cause us to get into collective delusions.

  • Mark

    Good topic
    I would like to know what else needs to be checked in order
    to silence the most pedantic sceptics

    • A change in their instructions.

      • bachcole

        I prefer your first answer, 49er. “Stopping their paychecks.” But I would include, “Starting their paychecks.” People don’t get hired if they disagree with the dominant paradigm. This is not to say that those not hiring the dissidents are malicious meanie heads conspiring, although they may be. The people doing the hiring simply think that the dissidents are crazy or stupid or incompetent or “don’t fit in” or something along that line. The potential employees may even see this years ahead of time and elect to see things according to the dominant paradigm. Although I am not a Marxist and I do not believe in materialism, it would be very foolish to think that this does not happen a lot, enough to bias individual perspectives to cause us to get into collective delusions.

  • kasom

    From the investors view it seems to be irrelevant wether it is Levi on the test again or anyone else. Simply the results in IH’s internal test will count for their money or no money……

    THE RESULTS OF THE EXPERIMENT IN COURSE MADE BY THE THIRD INDIPENDENT
    PARTY CAN BE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE AND NOTHING SPECIFIC ABOUT THE FUTURE
    WORK CAN BE SAID UNTIL THE RESULTS ARE PUBLISHED, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
    AS THEY MIGHT BE.

    It is the need for any investment company, not to claim things, that are unshure or just R&D, otherwise they may face some problems with the legal system.

    • bachcole

      There is no reason to think that Levi et. al., one, some, or all, are sick and tired of being shunned by their fellow physicists and other scientists, particularly of the American kind. And so they might not want to do another test. This is the stuff by which we construct our boxes. The greed aspect is merely the flying buttresses.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys,
    So if no news is good news, i guess the next stop, using my train analogy, will be publishing depot, and if he publishes in the same place, when could we expect to see it, not sure how long it took the last time?

    • ecatworld

      Hi Clovis,

      Last year the tests concluded in March, and the report was published in May, so there could be a wait. The last report was written in Italian, and it took time to translate. Not sure if that’s the case this time. Let’s hope they have done some report preparation ahead of time.

      • clovis ray

        Thanks buddy.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys,
    So if no news is good news, i guess the next stop, using my train analogy, will be publishing depot, and if he publishes in the same place, when could we expect to see it, not sure how long it took the last time?

    • Frank Acland

      Hi Clovis,

      Last year the tests concluded in March, and the report was published in May, so there could be a wait. The last report was written in Italian, and it took time to translate. Not sure if that’s the case this time. Let’s hope they have done some report preparation ahead of time.

      • clovis ray

        Thanks buddy.

  • Lu

    If what Rossi says here is true, and there are no gotchas, then this will go a long way in addressing the shortcomings of the first “independent” report. If Industrial Heat or their surregates, who are not associated with Rossi and have some independent scientific credentials (are not paid IH employees), created the E-Cat system being tested, including the proprietary elements, and then instrumented and measured the results using their own equipment, we would have what I would consider a proper validation of his technology, subject only the methods used and results obtain.

    Let’s hope for the best!

  • Lu

    If what Rossi says here is true, and there are no gotchas, then this will go a long way in addressing the shortcomings of the first “independent” report. If Industrial Heat or their surregates, who are not associated with Rossi and have some independent scientific credentials (are not paid IH employees), created the E-Cat system being tested, including the proprietary elements, and then instrumented and measured the results using their own equipment, we would have what I would consider a proper validation of his technology, subject only the methods used and results obtain.

    Let’s hope for the best!

    • bachcole

      It may still not get past the peer review bu!!$hit. But better is better, and people serious about discovery and clean energy won’t really care much, especially investors. Let the academics and the lamestream physicists look foolish; so much the better.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Peer review is like democrazy: arguably a very good thing. Another matter is that good things can be distorted and misused.

  • Andrew

    The worst write up about cold/hot fusion I have read to date.

    http://happynicetimepeople.com/dear-cold-fusion-please-stop-making-look-stupid-love-world/

    It’s good for a laugh.

    • artefact

      He somehow thinks that hot and coldfusion are the same.

    • bachcole

      I keep trying to educate the readers in the comment section and they keep trying to prove to me that arrogance and ignorance are spelled similarly for a reason.

  • Andrew

    The worst write up about cold/hot fusion I have read to date.

    http://happynicetimepeople.com/dear-cold-fusion-please-stop-making-look-stupid-love-world/

    It’s good for a laugh.

    • artefact

      He somehow thinks that hot and coldfusion are the same.

    • bachcole

      I keep trying to educate the readers in the comment section and they keep trying to prove to me that arrogance and ignorance are spelled similarly for a reason.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    Peer review is like democrazy: arguably a very good thing. Another matter is that good things can be distorted and misused.

  • georgehants

    Mark
    March 13th, 2014 at 3:53 PM
    Hi Andrea
    Do they have instruments to detect possible
    Microwave or electromagnetic interference?
    mark
    ——–
    Andrea Rossi
    March 14th, 2014 at 2:15 AM
    Mark:
    I suppose yes. The control of the energy consumed has been made very
    sophisticated, after the experience made in the 6 days test of March
    2013 published on Arxiv.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Cold Fusion Now
    Seldon Technologies, NASA, and LENR
    http://coldfusionnow.org/seldon-technologies-nasa-and-lenr/

  • Jimr

    I would be interested in hearing what others think would be the publics response to a positive report. I believe it would be received with a giant yawn. Most will not have heard of Industrial Heat and a report from a company only a couple years old would be ignored by other than a few companies involved in LENR.

    • Fortyniner

      Totally agree. Only a few people have the education to understand the information and process the implications. Of these, most will be unable to accept something so far out of their conditioned belief systems and will forget the information almost immediately. Most of the rest will assume that if there is anything in it, that others will serve up the benefits in due course, so they will forget the information almost immediately. There may also be continuing disinformation from various sources that will be designed to deride, discount or otherwise minimise its importance, and this will be effective.

      I’m 99% sure that there will be little significant public interest or response until (a) a cold fusion power station is openly operating, and (b) the media blackout on CF is lifted, at least in part. In short, no matter how positive the report is, we should not expect anything to change outside of our little world.

    • Blazespin

      It depends completely on the report. The unwashed masses will not hear about it. However, if the report is done by scientists generally recognized by the establishment (ivy league, etc) and is overwhelmingly positive with diagrams of the entire device inside and out, then it will be a watershed moment amongst all energy researches. Then, the question really is whether or not it will move the energy markets (e.g., oil and gas stocks – XOM) TBH, I’m not expecting an overwhelming and descriptive positive report by established scientists at this point. If it was, than we’d have leaks and the market for energy stocks would already be dropping. There might be established scientists, but they probably signed and NDA and don’t go into detail about the catalysts / mechanisms which will cause some doubt.

      • GreenWin

        Blaze, there already is a significant movement out of the fossil sector by big players.

        “CHARLOTTE, N.C. —Duke
        Energy says it will get out of the wholesale power-generation business
        in the Midwest because the financial results are too volatile.”
        http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/duke-energy-to-shed-midwest-generation-business/24531692#ixzz2vwoR8uX3

        Duke Energy, is the largest electric utility holding company in the United States. They are selling 13 major utility plants and have already written down $2B in losses. Electric utilities are in the death spiral predicted for the past 18 months. It has a lot to do with the rapid onset of distributed energy, rooftop solar, residential energy storage, and CHP like GE has just invested big in. Of course every energy exec worth their stripes has heard of or seen the Levi-Elforsk Report.

    • Bernie777

      And that is just how they want it, until they are ready.

  • Jimr

    I would be interested in hearing what others think would be the publics response to a positive report. I believe it would be received with a giant yawn. Most will not have heard of Industrial Heat and a report from a company only a couple years old would be ignored by other than a few companies involved in LENR.

    • Totally agree. Only a relatively few people have the education to understand the information and process the implications. Of these, most will be unable to accept something so far out of their conditioned belief systems and will forget the information almost immediately. Most of the rest will assume that if there is anything in it, that others will serve up the benefits in due course, so they can safely forget the information almost immediately. There may also be continuing disinformation from various sources that will be designed to deride, discount or otherwise minimise its importance, and this will be effective.

      I’m 99% sure that there will be little significant public interest or response until (a) a cold fusion power station is openly operating, and (b) the media blackout on CF is lifted, at least in part. In short, no matter how positive the report is, we should not expect anything to change outside of our little world. Fortunately it doesn’t matter what the general public know or think. This is going to play out at commercial and political levels, and the general public will follow where they are led by the nose – as always.

      • bachcole

        I doubt that there is a media blackout other than one as described so often by AlainCo. The media are also made up of human beings, and the media will be impressed just as much as the public by a cold fusion power station openly operating. But, everything else that you said I agree with. Among intelligent and educated people, it will be much more difficult to deny cold fusion.

        I have to admire this one thing about Al Gore for recognizing so long ago that there might be something of interest in cold fusion. I still think that a person can be a decent human being and still be trapped in a paradigm. I suspect that we are all trapped in our own little paradigms and we are all decent human beings, or at least we try.

        • GreenWin

          Algore who invented the internet and AGW – may be missing the boat on CF. He knows it’s here but is too much of a coward to come forward and promote it.

          • US_Citizen71

            It’s not that he is a coward as much as there is no $$$ in it for him.

          • GreenWin

            Greed is a for of cowardice IMO. 🙂

          • bachcole

            Knowing that there is noise about LENR and knowing that it is real are two different things. I am not defending the inventor of the Internet and AGW; I am defending the principle that a person is innocent until proven guilty, even if he has two strikes against him. Let’s wait and see how soon he declares his support {by telling everyone that he invented LENR.} (:->) It should be fun and interesting.

            But in the big scheme of things it won’t matter. He can either lead, follow, or get the phx#@k out of the way; I don’t really much care other than for the comic value.

    • Blazespin

      It depends completely on the report. The unwashed masses will not hear about it. However, if the report is done by scientists generally recognized by the establishment (ivy league, etc) and is overwhelmingly positive with diagrams of the entire device inside and out, then it will be a watershed moment amongst all energy researches. Then, the question really is whether or not it will move the energy markets (e.g., oil and gas stocks – XOM) TBH, I’m not expecting an overwhelming and descriptive positive report by established scientists at this point. If it was, than we’d have leaks and the market for energy stocks would already be dropping. There might be established scientists, but they probably signed and NDA and don’t go into detail about the catalysts / mechanisms which will cause some doubt.

      • GreenWin

        Blaze, there already is a significant movement out of the fossil sector by big players.

        “CHARLOTTE, N.C. —Duke
        Energy says it will get out of the wholesale power-generation business
        in the Midwest because the financial results are too volatile.”
        http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/duke-energy-to-shed-midwest-generation-business/24531692#ixzz2vwoR8uX3

        Duke Energy, is the largest electric utility holding company in the United States. They are selling 13 major utility plants and have already written down $2B in losses. Electric utilities are in the death spiral predicted for the past 18 months. It has a lot to do with the rapid onset of distributed energy, rooftop solar, residential energy storage, and CHP like GE has just invested big in. Of course every energy exec worth their stripes has heard of or seen the Levi-Elforsk Report.

        • bachcole

          Of course, the fact that they are located so close to Raleigh, N.C. is merely a coincidence.

    • Barbierir

      I believe the skeptics will continue to twist the facts and point to unlikely flaws, so much like last year report. It was excellent but did it change anything? Yet if this time the report get published in a major peer-reviewed journal (I don’t care for it but this was one of the arguments) and it accounts for all previous alleged flaws, then “maybe” it will percolate to the mainstream media in a few weeks.

      But with the previous experiences I’m more inclined to think that it will change nothing, absolutely nothing, regardless of how flawless the report is. I already imagine that one of the arguments will be that the same people are involved so it is not “independent”.

      The fact is that it will take a working device in industrial setting to be aired on prime time TV news

      • bachcole

        The May 2013 Levi et. al. did change things. It brought Darden, Vaughn, the Chinese, and the Swedes on board and convinced me and a lot of other people. This report will do the same thing on steroids, but we live in a big country and a big world, and it will not break the dam.

    • bachcole

      It probably won’t be a tsunami, but I think that it will move LENR forward greatly and be the beginning of the end of denial.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      And that is just how they want it, until they are ready.

  • Johan

    The TIP report will most likely be discredited unless they can explain how the e-cat works.
    I would focus less on skeptics and more on investors that can bring this out of the labs and into the market.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    On the face of it, the new report may be much more robust then the may 2013 report. It would have to be to take away the existing doubts over the may report. Even if the new report may not cause the breakthrough i’d like it to be, I expect the COP to be higher due to a better measurement system and the longer period of running. The report should also leave no doubt as to the nuclear origin of the reaction in relation to the energy produced.

    @Jimr: I can only see the new report gaining significant coverage if the testers are completely different persons then in the previous test and also if they are highly respected in the scientific community.

  • Billy Jackson

    I don’t think that’s unusual at all that he may know some of the details. I think that they are approaching this very carefully and want to avoid the mistakes they were accused of from the first test. Im pretty sure they have at some point discussed the past report with rossi and as such covered the major issues that were brought up (hence the knowledge)

  • GreenWin

    March 23rd 2014 represents the 25th anniversary of the Pons & Fleischmann cold fusion announcement.

    • JDM

      Might be a good day take to take a small position in ERY, DUG or SDP.
      Maybe all three!

  • GreenWin

    March 23rd 2014 represents the 25th anniversary of the Pons & Fleischmann cold fusion announcement.

    • JDM

      Might be a good day take to take a small position in ERY, DUG or SDP.
      Maybe all three!

    • bachcole

      March 16th 2014 represents the 15th anniversary of the birth of my son, the World’s Greatest boy. (:->)

  • Bruce Williams

    I am puzzled by this report : who wrote the questions and who wrote the answers ? I have been a great supporter of this project for some time, but the English (eg “Indipendent”) and style is so similar to that of Dottore Rossi that I am half-tempted to believe that he was involved in their formulation………………!

    • Billy Jackson

      its been obvious for some time.. this isn’t just an American thing.. as such, for a lot of the people involved.. English is not their first language, you can expect minor mistakes. these were questions asked on Rossi’s website that he answered.

      • Bruce williams

        Hullo Billy, I think you miss my point. As a tri-lingual speaker I am highly tolerant of other’s attempts to speak a different language.My point was ; who wrote the questions ?

        • US_Citizen71

          The questions were asked by two different posters on the JONP. You can quickly read it at http://www.rossilivecat.com/

          MichaelD

          March 13th, 2014 at 1:17 PM

          Dear Andrea Rossi:
          1- did the professors of the third indipendent party that are making the validation test make the set up of the E-.Cat themselves ?
          2- did they bring all the instrumentation to make the measurements?
          3- did thay put also instrumentation that can measure also direct current , if any, consumed by the E-Cat ?
          Warm Regards,
          Michael

          Curiosone

          March 13th, 2014 at 12:48 PM

          Dr Rossi:
          the test made in March 2013, reported on Arxive, has given specific experience to the professors, that now surely have corrected and improved their knowledge of the E-Cat: did this create discussions between you and the T.I.P.?
          Walter Gentili

    • kasom

      Indipendent is simply italian

    • AB

      indipendente is Italian for independent. These small mistakes are easy to make for Italians.

  • Bruce Williams

    I am puzzled by this report : who wrote the questions and who wrote the answers ? I have been a great supporter of this project for some time, but the English (eg “Indipendent”) and style is so similar to that of Dottore Rossi that I am half-tempted to believe that he was involved in their formulation………………!

    • Billy Jackson

      its been obvious for some time.. this isn’t just an American thing.. as such, for a lot of the people involved.. English is not their first language, you can expect minor mistakes. these were questions asked on Rossi’s website that he answered.

      • Bruce williams

        Hullo Billy, I think you miss my point. As a tri-lingual speaker I am highly tolerant of other’s attempts to speak a different language.My point was ; who wrote the questions ?

        • US_Citizen71

          The questions were asked by two different posters on the JONP. You can quickly read it at http://www.rossilivecat.com/

          MichaelD

          March 13th, 2014 at 1:17 PM

          Dear Andrea Rossi:
          1- did the professors of the third indipendent party that are making the validation test make the set up of the E-.Cat themselves ?
          2- did they bring all the instrumentation to make the measurements?
          3- did thay put also instrumentation that can measure also direct current , if any, consumed by the E-Cat ?
          Warm Regards,
          Michael

          Curiosone

          March 13th, 2014 at 12:48 PM

          Dr Rossi:
          the test made in March 2013, reported on Arxive, has given specific experience to the professors, that now surely have corrected and improved their knowledge of the E-Cat: did this create discussions between you and the T.I.P.?
          Walter Gentili

    • bachcole

      Re: “Indipendent” I have felt for some time that people were spelling “independent” like that as a way of honoring Doctor Rossi.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        I’ve felt similarly (indipendently!)

    • kasom

      Indipendent is simply italian

    • AB

      indipendente is Italian for independent. These small mistakes are easy to make for Italians.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The report is necessary, and good, and will be treated exactly like earlier reports. It is just another mile stone.
    There is only one power which will get people to accept LENR, the power of greed. When others are visibly profiting from LENR, no one will care if it is powered by what they believe to be impossible, as long as the dollars are real. The curve of acceptance will quickly follow the profit curve.

    • Jimr

      You are correct, but it will be years if not a decade or more before profits will be made from LENR. No company will test a devise six mo. or two years and put it on the market expecting it to last for years. They may built a few and sell to selective companies to test but no mass marketing.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Jimr If I am not mistaken Rossi has already profited greatly, and shall continue to do so. The world is moving ever faster, if you close your eyes you can feel it pulling your feet forward toward the new day! Hang on were accelerating!

        • GreenWin

          OR, I admire your poetic words. As I do these: “Hang on, we’re in for a bumpy ride!” Bette Davis.

    • GreenWin

      Ophelia, even before others profits, will be the abandonment of fossil/fission assets. America’s largest electric utility holding company, Duke Energy has quietly announced they will sell/write off 13 of their largest Midwest electric generating utilities. This on the heels of an adversary rate ruling and the United States Attorney subpenaing Duke and North Carolina’s government agency DENR on suspicion of criminal coal activity. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/14/1277522/-Federal-Criminal-Investigation-of-NC-Govt-Duke-Energy-for-Dan-River-Coal-Ash-Spill

      The death spiral of outdated electric utilities continues – and will drive investors and real energy business people to the alternatives – one of which is LENR.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The report is necessary, and good, and will be treated exactly like earlier reports. It is just another mile stone.
    There is only one power which will get people to accept LENR, the power of greed. When others are visibly profiting from LENR, no one will care if it is powered by what they believe to be impossible, as long as the dollars are real. The curve of acceptance will quickly follow the profit curve.

    • Jimr

      You are correct, but it will be years if not a decade or more before profits will be made from LENR. No company will test a devise six mo. or two years and put it on the market expecting it to last for years. They may built a few and sell to selective companies to test but no mass marketing.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Jimr If I am not mistaken Rossi has already profited greatly, and shall continue to do so. The world is moving ever faster, if you close your eyes you can feel it pulling your feet forward toward the new day! Hang on were accelerating!

        • GreenWin

          OR, I admire your poetic words. As I do these: “Hang on, we’re in for a bumpy ride!” Bette Davis.

    • GreenWin

      Ophelia, even before others profits, will be the abandonment of fossil/fission assets. America’s largest electric utility holding company, Duke Energy has quietly announced they will sell/write off 13 of their largest Midwest electric generating utilities. This on the heels of an adversary rate ruling and the United States Attorney subpenaing Duke and North Carolina’s government agency DENR on suspicion of criminal coal activity. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/14/1277522/-Federal-Criminal-Investigation-of-NC-Govt-Duke-Energy-for-Dan-River-Coal-Ash-Spill

      The death spiral of outdated electric utilities continues – and will drive investors and real energy business people to the alternatives – one of which is LENR.

    • bachcole

      “The report is necessary, and good, and will be treated exactly like earlier reports. It is just another mile stone.” Outstanding!!!

      “There is only one power which will get people to accept LENR, the power of greed.” ‘Greed’ has become become such an ugly word, but I just want to support my family and save my world.

      “When others are visibly profiting from LENR, no one will care if it is
      powered by what they believe to be impossible, as long as the dollars
      are real. The curve of acceptance will quickly follow the profit curve.” Outstanding!!!

      • Ophelia Rump

        Bachole, I could not agree with you more about greed. I think driving the instantiation of LENR would be a positive application of greed.

        I assure you that I am following this out of pure greed. I am not rich, but I dream of a day when I can invest in something like a micro power plant in my basement which would bring an actual return on investment. Every other investment I ever tried has been a rigged game devised by the bad greedy people. I have no wish to work until I fall over dead, which seems to be the preferred retirement plan for most of my generation.

        • greed is simply the vector of optimization.
          Laziness is the equivalent of that for engineer, and engineers know that intelligent (non zero-sum game, non short term) laziness is key to their competence.
          There is the equivalent problem with entrepreneur, where honest greed is good, when it is not stealing wealth to others, but capturing wealth from technology and good ideas.

          there is two school of philosophy.the moral one imagine that greed is evil, laziness is evil, it ask for corrupted people to be kind, disinterested, courageous, to work hard for pleasure and for the community…
          it led to communisme, religions, … very good on the paper.

          another school, more engineering take human as they are, animal, and design systems when animal spirits helps the community.

          it led to some utilitarian moral, to liberalism… (ortho-capitalism like german)…
          the idea is that greed and laziness are retroaction, and you have to design a system where thode retroactions benefit for all, and when it does not, instead of putting your centralized finger to tweak the facts, to introduce new retroaction so that bad behavior are punished be cause they are bad, and not because they are supposed to be bad from the opinion of experts…

          then let the game play

          this method is seldom used even in US

          • orsobubu

            >it led to communisme

            error here: it was state capitalism; communism never existed to date, stalin (and the likes in other countries) killed all the communists, one by one, and made the state capitalism.

  • Paul

    Positing or negative will be the results of TPR, all the major energy players are trying to reduce their assets in non-renewables energies. This is already a victory towards a better and cleaner world, because the costs of energy will be lower as new renewable technologies emerge…

    • GreenWin

      Very true Paul. In fact with a criminal indictment of Duke Energy on the horizon, the Fukushima disaster, high level radiation exposures at DOE’s underground waste op in Carlsbad NM, the unprecedented closing of western nuke plants — there is very little attractive about fossil/fission energy assets. The sell off is underway, the “utility death spiral” is inevitable.

  • Paul

    Positing or negative will be the results of TPR, all the major energy players are trying to reduce their assets in non-renewables energies. This is already a victory towards a better and cleaner world, because the costs of energy will be lower as new renewable technologies emerge…

    • GreenWin

      Very true Paul. In fact with a criminal indictment of Duke Energy on the horizon, the Fukushima disaster, high level radiation exposures at DOE’s underground waste op in Carlsbad NM, the unprecedented closing of western nuke plants — there is very little attractive about fossil/fission energy assets. The sell off is underway, the “utility death spiral” is inevitable.

  • Pekka Janhunen

    This is kind of self-evident, but now he’s working with turbines and on January 11 (2014) he said:
    “Frank Acland:

    Not yet. We are continuing our R&D and validation work and we will
    pass to the coupling with turbines when we will have consolidated
    positive results at the end of this R&D and validation stage.”

    (http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=838&cpage=1#comment-898416)

    Perhaps there is internally some result although not yet a report is out.

    • US_Citizen71

      another bread crumb…

      Andrea Rossi

      February 17th, 2014 at 6:27 PM

      Andrea Calaon:

      You must put a distinction between measurement of energy and production of energy. Obviously for the industrial production of energy we need a heat exchanger of some sort. We are experimenting turbines as well as the classic Carnot cycle. We will publish the range of temperatures we are reaching in stable operarions as soon as the R&D and validation in curse will have been completed. If we will be able to get positive results, the ranges of temperature will be enough high to allow gas turbines or very good efficiencies with the Carnot cycle, especially in co-generation or three-generation assemblies.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.

    • US_Citizen71

      I posted this on the Gas Turbine article but since it seems a bit dead I thought I would post it here as well, sorry if it is a bit off topic.

      A thought just came to me, Rossi must have found a way to either use a more solid form of nickel or is stabilizing the nickel powder in some type of high temperature aerogel. A turbine will create a lot of vibration from the turbulence of the air being pushed through the compressor vanes. It will manifest as sound and as physical vibration of the entire unit. These vibrations should be able to move a nano powder around quite a bit causing all kinds of technical fun. Unless that has been already been solved the first run of the gas turbine experiment will likely end spectacularly like one of the destructive tests. Any thoughts?

  • GreenWin

    With low low cost heat there are many options – not to mention the possibilities in plasma to electric conversion. The web is filling with more and more news of this magnificent transition to distributed energy:

    “Disruptive change is a constant feature of capitalism. Railways ran coaching inns out of business. Electricity did for gas lighting, which had replaced oil lights, which replaced whale oil. The economist Joseph Schumpeter called it “creative destruction”. We are on the crest of another technological tsunami. The good news is that this wave will make the planet safer, and our children’s future more secure.” http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/09/cheap-batteries-renewable-energy-market-big-power-companies-wind-solar-power

    • orsobubu

      There is an error in this; Schumpeter’s one is an ideology, not a science. for him, the world repeats in cycles, in capitalistic cycles. History doesn’t work like that, it works in revolutionary social cycles: capitalism came from previous production systems and will be substituted by other production systems. Marxism is a science.

      • GreenWin

        The point is we are seeing creative destruction of centralized “own and control” business. Distributed energy empowers users. And that is NOT Marxist.

        • orsobubu

          Studying scientific dialectical materialism, you will find that the most important task for a communist production system is that the greatest part of the product (obviously considering it as global social product, not the specific item) produced by the worker goes to the worker itself. Instead, in capitalism, the largest part goes to the capitalist, as surplus value, than transformed into money and finally in capital. So the task is to free human kind. In this sense, LENRs have a great potential to set people off from the capitalistic grid. Communism is a necessary stage before libertarian anarchism.

          • GreenWin

            Oh Jeez… this is the 60s all over again. When Marxists groked the antiwar movement was fertile ground for their outdated ideas. Do you guys really think anyone’s gonna buy Marxism today?? Get real. Communism, Marxism, hard socialism empowers the few at Central Control. Naw… This revolution is based on “Easy Rider” and free spirit mentality. Commies – get lost. 🙂

      • bachcole

        Is the death of hundreds of millions of innocent people, the gulags, the bread lines, the secret police, the polonium 210 shots in the leg, were they scientific, or were they Marxists. I’m confused.

        • orsobubu

          You’re right to be confused, but the apparent contradiction is easily
          explained. Every regime commonly called “communist”, in reality was –
          and is – classifiable as “state capitalistic”. State, because control by bureaucratic central powers were preeminent
          over free market deregulation. Capitalistic, because in every one of
          them there were wage labor, money, capital, banks, market, the typical
          constituents of every capitalistic production system. Communism never
          existed to date, it is only a possible program for a future world;
          Stalin (and the likes in other countries) killed all the communists, one
          by one, and made the state capitalism. Usually, the so-called
          “communism” is an ideology used in free-market countries by bourgeoisie
          ruling classes to scare and prevent revolutionary ideas can be ingrained
          in population. Here you can find the details:
          https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1951/06/statecap.htm

        • GreenWin

          Can you believe this guy?? Maybe he wants to buy my old Mao jacket.

  • FibberMcgourlick

    I still find it difficult to understand why Mr. Rossi would turn over a trillion dollar discovery–heat from fusion with no significant radiation–to a small branch of a small North Carolina Venture Capitl company. Probably it would be worth a trillion trillion considering its vital place in the future of the planet. So why?

    • US_Citizen71

      Probably because when opportunity came knockin’ they were the only ones to answer the door.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        I bet Darden & assoc. approached Rossi, not viceversa, and I bet Darden got his early
        info on ECW & Rossi’s blog. There’s a possibility that AmpEnergo approached Darden

        • bachcole

          So shouldn’t all us loyal ECWers get a stock share to two. (:->)

          • eyedoc

            They are a privately owned company

      • David

        So you’re saying all of those billion-dollar corporations in the world just passed over a chance to make untold billions more? Rossi could have gotten billions in cash from numerous companies. His claim of accepting only millions from some start up by itself proves that the E-Cat was always a hoax, not even counting all of the other evidence. $11.5 million for one of the most lucrative inventions in human history is ludicrous.

    • bachcole

      (1) Rossi was screwed without some help financially.
      (2) Rossi was hobbled by his own geekishness and he knew it and he had enough confidence in Darden, Vaughn, et. al. that they could make the business, accounting, PR, etc things happen correctly.
      (3) Rossi knew that he was getting old and that he would be just as happy with $10 million as he would be with $10 billion.

      I find that all of these reasons make perfect sense.

    • GreenWin

      Fibb, do you honestly believe what you read??

    • lcd

      If he has part ownership then he’s not really giving up anything as far as future worth is concerned.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      We have no way of knowing what Rossi “sold out” for, he could have retained a large percentage of gross sales. The “small North Carolina Venute Capital company” has a huge partner in the background.

  • US_Citizen71

    Probably because when opportunity came knockin’ they were the only ones to answer the door.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I bet Darden & assoc. approached Rossi, not viceversa, and I bet Darden got his early
      info on ECW & Rossi’s blog. There’s a possibility that AmpEnergo approached Darden

      • bachcole

        So shouldn’t all us loyal ECWers get a stock share to two. (:->)

  • Daniel Maris

    It’s a reasonable question. But are you saying that no previous inventor has ever experienced serious difficulty in securing funding for development of their invention, even though it be worth billions? Certainly TV has produced trillions of revenue, even profit but I seem to recall John Logie Baird in the UK found it very difficult to get financial support for development of the technology.

    Things are certainly complicated in terms of LENR because of the refusal of many patent offices to issue patents on LENR.

    Also, if one accepts the LENR narrative, it appears to be rather like the early days of the electric telegraph where, while the potential benefit of the technology is clear, control issues are unresolved and there is no clear theoretical understanding of the phenomenon being exploited.

    • FibberMcGourlick

      I hear what you’re saying and I agree with you insofar as the history of the development of lesser inventions goes, but once a low-cost, pollution-free fusion energy generator is running independently (self-feeding, no inputs) it will be indisputable proof that a transformative invention has come into existence. With modern communications it will be adopted worldwide with unbelievable speed. I’ve already stated what that kind of invention would be worth and I stand by it. So I still wonder why it was sold for 10 million to a small company in N.C.

      • in fact modern communication media have enforced a terrible censorship against LENR.
        Internet have helped a small community to survice in the sewers of science, but as you can see, despite many bombs, the media refuse to relay the facts…

        however it seems ou work an lobbying have succeeded if frightening the businessmen in incumbent companies.
        They know how it will happen, and it will be very fast :

        One day people and companies will realize LENr is real.
        few days after they will understand it can be integrated inside the device, appliance, machine, tools they have to buy soon, and it will be COOL…
        So they will delay their buying…
        Air companies will stop buying Jumbo , and will buy classic planes just for the transition
        Taxi will keep their old car, or buy the cheapest possible short-lif car.
        I will keel my old gas boiler, and if broken, repair it of at worst buy the cheapest possible.
        I will not buy a new washing machine, clothe iron, oven, or at least the cheap die-early model.

        The company know that as soon as the population and the executives will know LENR is real, their sales will collapse, unless they propose an LENR-device for the market..

        this is why they currently prepare to partners with LENR-teams… why US is funding Brillouin, indirectly …

      • Omega Z

        To start, It’s not a Cheap Energy Generator.
        Costs will be comparably to existing Generating systems. Possibly more in many cases.

        The E-cat’s & their use specific boilers themselves may cost more then the Burner & Boiler systems they will replace. Tho I think this will be offset by other cost savings such as No Fuel storage facilities as with coal & waste pits not needed Etc…

        All said, A Multi-Billion dollar power plant will still be a Multi-Billion dollar power plant.
        Only the Energy produced by these devices will be Cheaper due to Cheaper Fuel Costs.

        As for Rossi selling the Technology.
        A Little up front & a percentage of the net profits.
        It was Never about Trillions for Rossi. Doesn’t Work that way.
        And you should be Glad of this. Otherwise, So much for Cheap Energy.

        • Daniel Maris

          I agree – it won’t deliver free energy. I think it might get down to 2 cents per KwH but one has to set against that the fact that it will be capital-intensive ie costs will be upfront.

          • Omega Z

            About 2 cents per KwH as Rossi stated a while back. Likely a little more as I don’t think this includes the Plant cost.

  • Daniel Maris

    Trillion trillion? Hmmm…that’s rather a lot. I doubt it’s worth that, unless you are talking Turkish lira.

    • FibberMcGourlick

      What is the second industrial revolution worth–the one that makes it possible to end polution, to produce cheap clean water from the seas, to make every person in the world rich in energy, to revolutionize the production of food, and, in general, to utterly transform civilzation for the better.

      • Daniel Maris

        Not a trillion trillion. The world GDP is only about $80 trillion – not even 1 trillion trillion which would be $1,000,000,000,000 trillion. Energy is only about 15% of the economy – so only about $12 trillion is devoted to energy. There would be no reason to disconnect wind turbines, solar facilities, hydro dams and the like for many years.

        • right, I mixed… 700bilion for LENR (10% of energy cost)…

          about disconnecting others source, I think that like gasoline car it will happen after a transition period, and first solar/wind for their cost, at least no installations.
          politics can change that, but the population will get angry.

        • orsobubu

          Energy sector makes that percentage of world GDP because of surplus value extracted from workers, and the energy sector employs a real high number of workers, above all in the fossil area. But if you discover a technology that could be almost totally robotized and requiring very few workers in comparison to the old ones, the relative GDP would collapse. So be careful never confuse user value (usefulness for mankind) with exchange value (money gathered selling the user value). Air is much more important, as user value, than energy, but is is totally free, because its production is totally “robotized” by plants and don’t requires any exploited work to make it.

    • see the size of the market of energy, and divide by 10 as the new price…
      700 trillion is the price.
      of course no company will get that… parasits will capture most and rats will battle for the rest.

  • Owen Geiger

    Just a possibility: The long term report coming soon might be intentionally vague. The main purpose of the test is to assure internal investors in the Industrial Heat network that the E-Cat is ready or close to commercial production. They don’t need and may not want to convince everyone in the world. They want to stay in the lead.

    • blanco69

      I’ve often wondered what the purpose of this year long test is at all. Last year,, the most obvious answer was that a big industrial partner required some external verification that the ecat was indeed real. Now we have IH who have brought….well we don’t know what they’ve brought. If IH have been all over the ecat then they’d KNOW it was real and therefore not require an external party to tell them. So if you KNEW you would push on with the industrialisation process to stay ahead. Where is the factory full of robots anyway? I don’t think I’m being blasphemous if I suggest it doesn’t exist. The only purpose I can think of for the test to end all tests is to raise even more investment. If the ecat is for real then it should sell itself, but it clearly isn’t….selling itself. Why is Rossi playing with jet engines rather than overseeing the industrialisation of the ecat? I guess he can’t afford to do anything else.

      • jousterusa

        The factory s going up in an industrial park in China, as has been announced here. So it won’t be built by robots, but by slaves, which are almost as cheap!

    • there is no need to be vague, as the big guys are already aware.
      they preparing an army of Ronin to compete with the leaders… (in a way Brillouin for me is one such, but by US itself).

      The previous report was not vague, it was denied… it is like saying 9/11 evidence are vague… some people are not convinced, that is all. they will never except if you burn their hand with the MW they deny.

      for me that 6month report is made for the press, so the less denialist in the gang (few %) dare to risk their career caliming LENR is real.

      anothre more serious reason for 6month report is to convince businessman that it is usable, because LENR reality is one thing, but usability is harder.
      Nobody yet have proven LENr was industrial today.

  • Owen Geiger

    Just a possibility: The long term report coming soon might be intentionally vague. The main purpose of the test is to assure internal investors in the Industrial Heat network that the E-Cat is ready or close to commercial production. They don’t need and may not want to convince everyone in the world. They want to stay in the lead.

    • blanco69

      I’ve often wondered what the purpose of this year long test is at all. Last year,, the most obvious answer was that a big industrial partner required some external verification that the ecat was indeed real. Now we have IH who have brought….well we don’t know what they’ve brought. If IH have been all over the ecat then they’d KNOW it was real and therefore not require an external party to tell them. So if you KNEW you would push on with the industrialisation process to stay ahead. Where is the factory full of robots anyway? I don’t think I’m being blasphemous if I suggest it doesn’t exist. The only purpose I can think of for the test to end all tests is to raise even more investment. If the ecat is for real then it should sell itself, but it clearly isn’t….selling itself. Why is Rossi playing with jet engines rather than overseeing the industrialisation of the ecat? I guess he can’t afford to do anything else.

      • jousterusa

        The factory s going up in an industrial park in China, as has been announced here. So it won’t be built by robots, but by slaves, which are almost as cheap!

      • bachcole

        blanco69,

        (1) you are confusing the confirmation of LENR+ and the E-Cat with the confirmation that the E-Cat will sell. After the May 2013 Levi et. al. report, I would NOT have bought an E-cat. I would want to know that they thing wouldn’t crap out on me after 6 weeks; I would want to know that there were was no pollution or other long term problems; I would want to know that it did not explode.

        (2) Business people, and Rossi is not a good business person, make all manner of claims before things have happened, so his statement about a robot driven factory should just be forgotten, for now, IMO.

        (3) Rossi has already confirmed that he was talking about turbines when he said jet engines.

    • there is no need to be vague, as the big guys are already aware.
      they preparing an army of Ronin to compete with the leaders… (in a way Brillouin for me is one such, but by US itself).

      The previous report was not vague, it was denied… it is like saying 9/11 evidence are vague… some people are not convinced, that is all. they will never except if you burn their hand with the MW they deny.

      for me that 6month report is made for the press, so the less denialist in the gang (few %) dare to risk their career caliming LENR is real.

      anothre more serious reason for 6month report is to convince businessman that it is usable, because LENR reality is one thing, but usability is harder.
      Nobody yet have proven LENr was industrial today.

  • GreenWin

    Fibb, do you honestly believe what you read??

  • Pekka Janhunen

    I’ve felt similarly (indipendently!)

  • BroKeeper

    As we get closer to the E-Cat six month report these late technological breakthrough claims, demonstrations, and announcements appear to be surfacing more frequently. Its word has disseminated to comparable scientific and technological companies causing their investors’ angst. Their strategy to provide perhaps exaggerated claims of their devices lessens the LENR impact as an alternate fuel source compared to their own.

    This certainly is not meant to cast dispersions on new promising energy technologies but to offer perspective in the timeline of the claims and their proportional benefits to society. The more promising energy participants will not only certainly drive down costs and increase availability but also provide a means to merge those technologies with flexibility and combine the strengths of each for a variety of uses. Case in point: the Solar Hydrogen system mentioned here driven by LENR energy could generate unlimited hydrogen for hydrogen fuel cell stations (no fuel trucks just filtered tap water and additives). Hydrogen fuel cells provide on-demand quick electrical current to electric motors whereas LENR is not an on-demand power source since it cannot be turned on/off at will but could provide cheap continuous energy to the Solar Hydrogen system. The combined scenarios are limitless.

  • Brokeeper

    edited out by BK

  • Omega Z

    I Like Rossi’s response to Thorbjorn:
    It sounds past tense.

    Thorbjorn:
    Are the independent third party aware of the limitation of the PCE-830 that has been pointed out by Mats Lewan?
    Mats Lewan wrote: – – –

    Rossi
    the Professors have put instrumentation standing by the PCE 830 to measure any direct current that cannot be measured by the PCE 830. Obviously, the measurement confirms that there is not any direct current flowing.

    http://rossilivecat.com/

    • deleo77

      It really sets up these test results to be a big deal. What are the skeptics going to say if the results are positive and the e-cat works as well, or even better than the last time? There may not be any remote theory for how they could have been fraudulent in this round. The fraud theories that arose from the last test seem to have been addressed, and the test took place over and long period of time, and Rossi was not there for most or all of it. DC power was the main theory by the skeptics.

      On the flip side what would Rossi say if the test results come back as negative? I do read posts by the skeptics, and it seems like this is what they are really counting on this time. They almost seem to know that the fraud arguments won’t be there this time, so all of their eggs are in the basket that these test results will come back negative.

      • GreenWin

        E-Cat “skeptics” have painted themselves so deep into a corner there is little wiggle room. They have become a sad handful of lonely old curmudgeons.

        • Ivan Klimovich

          The question is not “do anyone believe or not?” the question is “when China can stop building coil plants and use E-CAT instead?”. Let’s see what this report will talk about. As I understand it can be the FIRST publicly released independent review of E-CAT. Why should I believe or better “incorporate E-CAT into my worldview” before anyone confirms that it is happening.

      • LENR G

        The skeptics… I think they will continue to call us morons.

        Much depends on the composition of the independent testing team. Ideally it would be (mostly) different folks from the first ELFORSK effort. Reading between the lines though I get the sense that the testing team is largely as before, perhaps with a few add-ons. Unfortunately this will leave open the accusations of collusion and the skeptics will go there.

        They will also probably be able to point out some extremely unlikely avenues for fraud. They’ll go there too, unaware of how ridiculous they sound.

        I’m hoping for the involvement of some new blood and some attention getting institutions. Wouldn’t it be nice if NASA or MIT or Stanford validated E-Cat technology? That would turn some heads. We need to get this horse out of the gate.

      • stefan

        I mostly agree with LENR G below. But want to add according to what I picked up from the last tests by Levi and ELFORSK. Last time the ELFORSK people was under financed both in time and resources. The task for them was to do a first preliminary tests to decide for better resources in a next set of test that has been ongoing now for say 3 months. Therefore Levy did provide most of the test equipment and the bulk work. Sure the lack of metering of DC is a flaw, but even many die hard skeptics did not think that was the trick. So the main suspicion was that Levi was not honest.
        For the ongoing second test we should expect the other group ELFORSK + 2 other people? to do quite many more checks (and it seams so judging the information we get) (One issue I have is that PCE-830 are used again, last time that instrument was supplied by Levi no? ) Anyway I expect that this set of test to be much more independent and if good enough COP, major players in the energy field in Sweden will start to invest at worst, but more likely quite many sane people will start to take notice. We should not put too much weight on crazy ranting skeptics playing the intertube. My understanding is that practical minded people usually do their homework and is usually open to new inventions indipendent 🙂 if it fit’s the theorist mind or not.

        • about skeptics, you have to look to conspiracy theorist to predict their reaction : they will find a conspiracy… accuse the observers of conspiracy…

          “My understanding is that practical minded people usually do their homework and is usually open to new inventions indipendent 🙂 if it fit’s the theorist mind or not.”

          This is what was observed in France CNAM (conservatoir nationa des arts et métiers, one prestigious “ecole d’ingéieur”, top university for MSc enineers, having competence in research and industrial measurements).

          You can see that in that french article

          http://www.lexpress.fr/informations/fusion-froide-et-pourtant-ca-chauffe_605304.html

          (translated http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lexpress.fr%2Finformations%2Ffusion-froide-et-pourtant-ca-chauffe_605304.html&sandbox=1 )

          “it must go see. We’re putting together a manipulation that works by one year. ” Others in the same body, do not wait for the green light from their hierarchy. In most underground, they are working around their calorimeters and lay quietly patents. “It is true, comment on shouting Jean-Pierre Vigier and Jacques Dufour, the attitude of major research organizations is incomprehensible. Why are they so reluctant while manipulations are not very expensive?” As if cold fusion smelled scorched and they were afraid to burn the wings of their reputation. An example:

          ->> Jacques Dufour, funded entirely by Shell, has long sought a laboratory better equipped than his own – located in Grand-Couronne, near Rouen – to continue his experiments. He struggled to be welcome. It is ultimately the Pr Jacques Floss , Director of the Laboratory for Nuclear Science at the Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers (CNAM), which opened its doors. “I just installed, he says, already chemists, heating engineers, nuclear physicists CNAM are willing to lend a hand. Critiques, intrigued, but very open. <<-

          "

          look at the date : 21 years ago!

          the problem is that skeptic use that delay as an argument to prove they are right and we are losers and not as an evidence that they are crazy and powerful.

          • stefan

            Well I can only say that most senior researchers I know would accept that something is cooking in the ECAT if the ELFORSK folks can show positive results in this run of test. They are not academics, but practical researches with a background in engineering. These people does not listen to ranting people, or people wining on a forum, that would be very unprofessional, they do listen to ELFORSK though.

          • Right. beside the fan of Huizenga like MY or Camillo Franchini, I have only seen critics among nuclear physicists.
            Others either politely parrot wikipravda and laugh with a wink…
            many admit they cannot argue with me (face to face only, on forum everybody is sur or shutup).

            imagine if some corp is/(are?) simply saying : “ok, bring me a project and talents, I bring you the funding and the challenges (and my challenges(and pocket) are huge) .
            why ? because the question is not whether LENR is real or not, but if I can afford to miss the train and let my market disappear, or be captured by competitors. and finally one condition : don’t work with the guy on the other side of our market 😉 “. I let you guess if it is a prediction, or history.

          • GreenWin

            Skeptics, physicists, journal editors, fossil/fission execs – no longer matter. They are infants, sucking their thumbs, blinking as LENR passes them by. We don’t really need another Elforsk-Levi confirmation of anomalous heat; COP 6+ etc. The MARKET is, like a canary in the mine shaft, aware that great change is afoot. That is why bankers are hesitating on centralized utilities investment; why America’s largest utility holding company Duke Energy is DUMPING fossil generating plants; why there is a moratorium on new nuke plants, and nuclear waste disasters have silenced politicians.

            This blog and discussion is no longer about “What IF LENR…” blah blah. Look around at the MARKET friends. It is screaming loud and clear. Energy consumers are becoming empowered, independent and enabled. The world has already changed and mainstream science missed the launch, the boat, and the opportunity to climb aboard. What goes around…

          • bachcole

            Thank you for that stefan.

  • Omega Z

    I Like Rossi’s response to Thorbjorn:
    It sounds past tense.

    Thorbjorn:
    Are the independent third party aware of the limitation of the PCE-830 that has been pointed out by Mats Lewan?
    Mats Lewan wrote: – – –

    Rossi
    the Professors have put instrumentation standing by the PCE 830 to measure any direct current that cannot be measured by the PCE 830. Obviously, the measurement confirms that there is not any direct current flowing.

    http://rossilivecat.com/

    • deleo77

      It really sets up these test results to be a big deal. What are the skeptics going to say if the results are positive and the e-cat works as well, or even better than the last time? There may not be any remote theory for how they could have been fraudulent in this round. The fraud theories that arose from the last test seem to have been addressed, and the test took place over and long period of time, and Rossi was not there for most or all of it. DC power was the main theory by the skeptics.

      On the flip side what would Rossi say if the test results come back as negative? I do read posts by the skeptics, and it seems like this is what they are really counting on this time. They almost seem to know that the fraud arguments won’t be there this time, so all of their eggs are in the basket that these test results will come back negative.

      • GreenWin

        E-Cat “skeptics” have painted themselves so deep into a corner there is little wiggle room. They have become a sad handful of lonely old curmudgeons.

        • Ivan Klimovich

          The question is not “do anyone believe or not?” the question is “when China can stop building coil plants and use E-CAT instead?”. Let’s see what this report will talk about. As I understand it can be the FIRST publicly released independent review of E-CAT. Why should I believe or better “incorporate E-CAT into my worldview” before anyone confirms that it is happening.

      • The skeptics… I think they will continue to call us morons.

        Much depends on the composition of the independent testing team. Ideally it would be (mostly) different folks from the first ELFORSK effort. Reading between the lines though I get the sense that the testing team is largely as before, perhaps with a few add-ons. Unfortunately this will leave open the accusations of collusion and the skeptics will go there.

        They will also probably be able to point out some extremely unlikely avenues for fraud. They’ll go there too, unaware of how ridiculous they sound.

        I’m hoping for the involvement of some new blood and some attention getting institutions. Wouldn’t it be nice if NASA or MIT or Stanford validated E-Cat technology? That would turn some heads. We need to get this horse out of the gate.

        • bachcole

          I am a skeptic. I wish people would not “skeptic” = “skeptopath”.

          I am hoping that the skeptopaths DISBELIEVE for as long as possible. The longer that they disbelieve the greater will be their chagrin when the juggernaut rolls over them. LENR+ is real. It will eventually become impossible to deny. The longer they deny the more pleasant will be my revenge for all of those years of denying alternative healing and homeopathy and now LENR and so on.

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        I mostly agree with LENR G below. But want to add according to what I picked up from the last tests by Levi and ELFORSK. Last time the ELFORSK people was under financed both in time and resources. The task for them was to do a first preliminary tests to decide for better resources in a next set of test that has been ongoing now for say 3 months. Therefore Levy did provide most of the test equipment and the bulk work. Sure the lack of metering of DC is a flaw, but even many die hard skeptics did not think that was the trick. So the main suspicion was that Levi was not honest.
        For the ongoing second test we should expect the other group ELFORSK + 2 other people? to do quite many more checks (and it seams so judging the information we get) (One issue I have is that PCE-830 are used again, last time that instrument was supplied by Levi no? ) Anyway I expect that this set of test to be much more independent and if good enough COP, major players in the energy field in Sweden will start to invest at worst, but more likely quite many sane people will start to take notice. We should not put too much weight on crazy ranting skeptics playing the intertube. My understanding is that practical minded people usually do their homework and is usually open to new inventions indipendent 🙂 if it fit’s the theorist mind or not.

        • about skeptics, you have to look to conspiracy theorist to predict their reaction : they will find a conspiracy… accuse the observers of conspiracy…

          “My understanding is that practical minded people usually do their homework and is usually open to new inventions indipendent 🙂 if it fit’s the theorist mind or not.”

          This is what was observed in France CNAM (conservatoir nationa des arts et métiers, one prestigious “ecole d’ingéieur”, top university for MSc enineers, having competence in research and industrial measurements).

          You can see that in that french article

          http://www.lexpress.fr/informations/fusion-froide-et-pourtant-ca-chauffe_605304.html

          (translated http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lexpress.fr%2Finformations%2Ffusion-froide-et-pourtant-ca-chauffe_605304.html&sandbox=1 )

          “it must go see. We’re putting together a manipulation that works by one year. ” Others in the same body, do not wait for the green light from their hierarchy. In most underground, they are working around their calorimeters and lay quietly patents. “It is true, comment on shouting Jean-Pierre Vigier and Jacques Dufour, the attitude of major research organizations is incomprehensible. Why are they so reluctant while manipulations are not very expensive?” As if cold fusion smelled scorched and they were afraid to burn the wings of their reputation. An example:

          ->> Jacques Dufour, funded entirely by Shell, has long sought a laboratory better equipped than his own – located in Grand-Couronne, near Rouen – to continue his experiments. He struggled to be welcome. It is ultimately the Pr Jacques Floss , Director of the Laboratory for Nuclear Science at the Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers (CNAM), which opened its doors. “I just installed, he says, already chemists, heating engineers, nuclear physicists CNAM are willing to lend a hand. Critiques, intrigued, but very open. <<-

          "

          look at the date : 21 years ago!

          the problem is that skeptic use that delay as an argument to prove they are right and we are losers and not as an evidence that they are crazy and powerful.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Well I can only say that most senior researchers I know would accept that something is cooking in the ECAT if the ELFORSK folks can show positive results in this run of test. They are not academics, but practical researches with a background in engineering. These people does not listen to ranting people, or people wining on a forum, that would be very unprofessional, they do listen to ELFORSK though.

          • Right. beside the fan of Huizenga like MY or Camillo Franchini, I have only seen critics among nuclear physicists.
            Others either politely parrot wikipravda and laugh with a wink…
            many admit they cannot argue with me (face to face only, on forum everybody is sur or shutup).

            imagine if some corp is/(are?) simply saying : “ok, bring me a project and talents, I bring you the funding and the challenges (and my challenges(and pocket) are huge) .
            why ? because the question is not whether LENR is real or not, but if I can afford to miss the train and let my market disappear, or be captured by competitors. and finally one condition : don’t work with the guy on the other side of our market 😉 “. I let you guess if it is a prediction, or history.

          • GreenWin

            Skeptics, physicists, journal editors, fossil/fission execs – no longer matter. They are infants, sucking their thumbs, blinking as LENR passes them by. We don’t really need another Elforsk-Levi confirmation of anomalous heat; COP 6+ etc. The MARKET is, like a canary in the mine shaft, aware that great change is afoot. That is why bankers are hesitating on centralized utilities investment; why America’s largest utility holding company Duke Energy is DUMPING fossil generating plants; why there is a moratorium on new nuke plants, and nuclear waste disasters have silenced politicians.

            This blog and discussion is no longer about “What IF LENR…” blah blah. Look around at the MARKET friends. It is screaming loud and clear. Energy consumers are becoming empowered, independent and enabled. The world has already changed and mainstream science missed the launch, the boat, and the opportunity to climb aboard. What goes around…

          • bachcole

            Thank you for that stefan.

  • As a French i always careful about religious people who are inch from war criminal sometime. anyway politic is not differet, like many passion. simply here the religion have lost dominance on the society, so we are immunized…. end of the cultural point.

    I agree that “entrepreneurs” unlike many employees like big corps bosses, like financial traders, are working mostly for passion, with a vision of future, like you can see with Xavier niel, even JM Messier (can turn bad), elon musk, bill gates, … but money and greed are their powermeter…

    take me with lenr-forum, or Michel Vanderberghe with lenr-cities…We work for free currently (we have a real boss that pay us for non-lenr work).
    I have a vision of the future that you can see in “the next convergence” “21st century waves”…
    Michel is more in current movement with fair business…
    not so different from a religious position (French are veriy religious and monarchist, and since the priest and the aristocrat were not enough respecting our ideals, we beheaded them and installed a republic that match those ideal better).
    anyway I would like to have positive balance at the end of each month, and Michel would certainly like to be the Xavier Niel of LENR, “le trublion des LENR”.

  • GreenWin

    Oh Jeez… this is the 60s all over again. When Marxists groked the antiwar movement was fertile ground for their outdated ideas. Do you guys really think anyone’s gonna buy Marxism today?? Get real. Communism, Marxism, hard socialism empowers the few at Central Control. Naw… This revolution is based on “Easy Rider” and free spirit mentality. Commies – get lost. 🙂

  • GreenWin

    Can you believe this guy?? Maybe he wants to buy my old Mao jacket.

  • bachcole

    orsobubu, my handle is bachcole.

    From Ernest Mandel:

    “Every increase in the productivity of labor beyond this low point makes a
    small surplus possible, and once there is a surplus of products, once
    man’s two hands can produce more than is needed for his own subsistence,
    then the conditions have been set for a struggle over how this surplus
    will be shared.”

    I see no necessity for struggle? I produce 2 canoes. George produces two English mince meat pies. We trade. What struggle? I suppose if I produce 2 canoes and George produces no English mince meat pies then he might try to steal one of my canoes and then we might have a struggle, assuming that I am not charitable.

    orsobubu, I am very much of a demonstration guy. The demonstrations of Marxist theory are dreadful, and that is putting it mildly and politely, even worse than Mills’ BLP “demonstrations. At least Mills didn’t kill anyone, although I heard rumors that some people tried to kill themselves from boredom, but they missed because they were giggling too much.

    I will certainly continue to ploy through Ernest Mandel, but the demonstrations don’t really encourage me: China = 63 million; Russia = 20 million; Cambodia = 1/3 of the population, etc. etc. But you say that the wrong type of people got into power; and I and a lot of other people say that Communism is an open invitation for power hungry crap-heads to try to get into positions of power. Communism does not take into account human nature, and therefore it is dangerous; it allows crap-heads to get into positions of power.

    • orsobubu

      Bachcole, glad you lurked into that material. Since we are going OT here, and surely I’m going to be moderated very soon, keep in mind, if interested, that – although I’m absolutely certain you will not change your mind – you can ask me everything you want about those topics, in every moment. I’ll answer if I can find a little of time. Please write to postxng@hotmail.com.