Rossi: Working on Miniaturized E-Cat Reactors in R&D Labs

An interesting comment by Andrea Rossi has been posted on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today in response to a suggestion from a reader named Mark who proposed the idea of ‘antibiotic pill’-sized E-Cat reactors that could be heated to meltdown temperatures, and safely explode in a sealed chamber attached to a heat exchanger at a rate of one per second.

I think Mark’s idea is that with tiny reactors you wouldn’t have to worry about controlling the reaction — just let them get to maximum temperature, melt down, and have them vaporize.

Rossi replied:

Mark:
Your idea is good, the actual turning it into a prototype raises many difficulties; we are working also upon the idea of miniaturized reactors in the context of our R&D program, though. You got a point.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

It’s interesting to me that small reactors are now being worked on. For quite a while it seemed that Rossi has been focusing on larger scale energy production — for industrial purposes, specifically. I am sure that is their focus for the first series of commercial products. But it is entirely logical that in doing R&D that all kinds of permutations of the technology would be being explored — and there are many applications in which miniature E-Cats would be very desirable — especially for things like domestic and transportation settings.

Rossi says that he is very worried and afraid with regards to the results of the long-term testing, but it also sounds like business as usual is going on at IH headquarters with development of the technology.

  • Warthog

    I think small reactors will eventually be ubiquitous in electronic devices, and may come to fruition sooner. Mitchell Swartz’s “NANOR” is almost “there” already. Picture an integrated circuit with multiple parallel NANOR areas, integrated heating zones and close-coupled heat to electricity semiconductor regions.

    • BroKeeper

      True wireless mobile phones.

  • Warthog

    I think small reactors will eventually be ubiquitous in electronic devices, and may come to fruition sooner. Mitchell Swartz’s “NANOR” is almost “there” already. Picture an integrated circuit with multiple parallel NANOR areas, integrated heating zones and close-coupled heat to electricity semiconductor regions.

    • Brokeeper

      True wireless mobile phones.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I would love to see what Rossi has in his R&D lab. I wonder how big the core R&D team is?
    I think it will be that team that ensures the technology is not overrun by competitors with better ideas as the technology begins to proliferate.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I would love to see what Rossi has in his R&D lab. I wonder how big the core R&D team is?
    I think it will be that team that ensures the technology is not overrun by competitors with better thought out approaches as the technology begins to proliferate.

    Edison got the incandescent lamp right but he completely botched the power supply using DC, and ultimately lost control to Tesla’s AC. For a new technology the R&D department is perhaps the most critical element for success.

    • bachcole

      16 people in the R&D department.

      • Ophelia Rump

        If you estimate the cost of labor for R&D at $200,000 per person.
        that comes to 3,200,00 per year. That is a substantial fraction of the funding, suggesting that the twelve million funding gathered out of twenty million offered will not last long. Industrial heat must get a burst of income this year in order to continue. I see two possibilities.

        1, Sell Product.
        2, Stunning test results leading to a funding bump.

        They would have to clone Einstein and Carl Sagan and have them praise the technology; in order to generate great excitement about another report.

        I think they need to sell substantial product this year or find some new investors.

        • Owen Geiger

          Add in the cost of their legal team. That’s going to cost a fortune.

          But I don’t think they’re hurting for money. I believe there are wealthy industrialists behind the scene who can afford whatever it costs.

          • bachcole

            And it is not just about the money. The freaking janitor is going to be believing in this project; I can just see him going to back to college to get his engineering degree just so he can work on this project. The secretary will have to discipline herself to not go to the local cowboy bar so as to avoid bragging about it. They are working on the most important technological advancement in the history of the world. If Rossi telephoned me and asked me to leave my family and come and sort out all of the philosophical issues (I’m sure) at a mere $40,000 per year, we would be moving the day after tomorrow. And it wouldn’t just be about the future money. ANYONE who knows that this is real will be throwing themselves at the human resources officer.

        • bachcole

          I think that your estimate for the average engineer’s salary is WAY too high. In North Carolina, $90,000 would be more like it. So go back to your calculations and try $1.44 million for the lot of them. Plus, stock options and such, any savvy engineer would jump at it for $50,000. I would. All you have to do is show them a working E-Cat and burn their finger [ sort of an initiation ritual, like hazing (:->) ] and show them the future. God!!! Who wants a stupid engineer working for them anyway. It would take less time than a regular interview to convince a sharp young person that giving them 4 good years at $50,000 would be worth millions in the future. So, I disagree completely. It might have taken me 19 months to believe in the E-Cat, through the Internet. I guarantee that it would have taken me 19 minutes to believe in it if I were standing in front of one and had external access to it.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    May be harmful if swallowed. Keep away from children and pets. Do not carry in your pocket. Do not inhale. If swallowed, call 911. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting.

    • BroKeeper

      New definition for heartburn.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    May be harmful if swallowed. Keep away from children and pets. Do not carry in your pocket. Do not inhale. If swallowed, call 911. If swallowed, do not induce vomiting.

    • Brokeeper

      New definition for heartburn.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah, E-Kittens.

    • Kwhilborn

      lol

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Yeah, E-Kittens.

    • Kwhilborn

      lol

  • George N

    Interesting how Rossi gets so many good ideas from his blog that he seriously considers. I like how the pill size reactor could potentially drastically reduce the complexity of the reaction. Reminds me of how the American military complex designed jets all sorts of sophisticated electronics while the Russains made jets that looked similar from the outside, but operated off of vacuum tubes and spot welding! Although there is a limit to where crude design can take you, I don’t think the Russians ever developed a sine winged stealth bomber.

    • Ophelia Rump

      The tubes made them able to fly after an EMP pulse, unlike the American jets of the time.
      That was a big wake up call for the U.S. A few air bursts and our planes would have fallen like rain from the skys.

  • Lu

    Rossi’s, or actually maybe Industrial Heat’s, main goal is to get the low lying fruit with patents. They are probably exploring everything and anything that they can patent. Just a thought.

    • Omega Z

      It was mentioned that they are studying different Reactor designs & filing patents for those that work.

  • Lu

    Rossi’s, or actually maybe Industrial Heat’s, main goal is to get the low lying fruit with patents. They are probably exploring everything and anything that they can patent. Just a thought.

    • Omega Z

      It was mentioned that they are studying different Reactor designs & filing patents for those that work.

  • Kwhilborn

    I think varying the Ecat size in both directions would be normal R&D. This is natural. The idea of having tiny reactors meant to melt down is unique. Kudos Mark if you read this. Interesting concept.

  • Kwhilborn

    I think varying the Ecat size in both directions would be normal R&D. This is natural. The idea of having tiny reactors meant to melt down is unique. Kudos Mark if you read this. Interesting concept.

  • GreenWin

    I would suspect this is where STMicro is going with their LENR research. And considering the primitive state of targeted medical treatment today – we could use some medical nano-bots able to identify and deliver drugs, treatments to specific cellular morphologies. The fact we still use systemic treatments in medicine is like crushing a cockroach with house.

    • georgehants

      Could I suggest Researching the Placebo Effect that starts with a mother kissing a child better.
      Does that work?

    • Doktor Bob

      3D print the technology straight into mini chips ^ ^
      I00 Watt seems a bit overkill ?

  • GreenWin

    I would suspect this is where STMicro is going with their LENR research. And considering the primitive state of targeted medical treatment today – we could use some medical nano-bots able to identify and deliver drugs, treatments to specific cellular morphologies. The fact we still use systemic treatments in medicine is like crushing a cockroach with house.

    • georgehants

      Could I suggest Researching the Placebo Effect that starts with a mother kissing a child better.
      Does that work?

    • Building the technology into chips and processors makes much sense.
      Take that Moore`s Law!!!

      The potential applications of this technology is exiciting

  • Ransompw

    I see a different response from Rossi, did he change it?

    • Frank Acland

      Yes, it looks like it. Now the response to Mark’s question reads:

      “We already have studied the safety limit and I do not think downsizing the reactors can give us more information. For technological reasons, at the moment it is not possible to downsize the reactors more than we already did so far. Good question, though.”

      • blanco69

        So he says he’s working on miniatures and then he says he’s not. Maybe he changed his mind. Anyway, the potyotype hook up for energy production must be complete and tested because he seems to be working on anything except that.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        The old and new answers are not necessarily contradictory. Both were kind of negative to the idea as such. Maybe he remember a technological reason which prohibits miniaturisation down to pill size and then revised the answer. That they have looked into miniaturised reactors is not new, he said it already 1-2 years ago. If I remember right the power level that he spoke about then was 100-300 W.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Instant Steam, activate your e-Kittycules in microwave oven, then add water.

    • Obvious

      Brew in your hand coffee in a can.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    Instant Steam, activate your e-Kittycules in microwave oven, then add water.

    • Obvious

      Brew in your hand coffee in a can.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    For ice-free streets, sidewalks, and driveways, add thermostatically controlled e-Kittycules to paving material.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    For ice-free streets, sidewalks, and driveways, add thermostatically controlled e-Kittycules to paving material.

  • ecatworld

    Yes, it looks like it. Now the response to Mark’s question reads:

    “We already have studied the safety limit and I do not think downsizing the reactors can give us more information. For technological reasons, at the moment it is not possible to downsize the reactors more than we already did so far. Good question, though.”

    • blanco69

      So he says he’s working on miniatures and then he says he’s not. Maybe he changed his mind. Anyway, the potyotype hook up for energy production must be complete and tested because he seems to be working on anything except that.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      The old and new answers are not necessarily contradictory. Both were kind of negative to the idea as such. Maybe he remember a technological reason which prohibits miniaturisation down to pill size and then revised the answer. That they have looked into miniaturised reactors is not new, he said it already 1-2 years ago. If I remember right the power level that he spoke about then was 100-300 W.

  • astralprojectee

    Rossi didn’t really state how small they are working on with these mini-reactors.

    • Allan Shura

      If they could just speed up a time frame with these tiny reactors. Dropped the small domestic for the big industrial.

  • LENR G

    Perhaps Rossi’s supervisors prefer to hide the direction of their R&D efforts from competitors.

    It’s implausible that Rossi voluntarily says one minute that they’re working to make the reactors smaller and then the next that it’s not (currently) possible.

    Somebody asked him to change it.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      1-2 years ago he spoke about R&D with 100-300 W reactors while Mark’s question was about pill size devices. Maybe they have already done 100-300 W range and then hit some problem if trying to miniaturise further. That would be consistent with the old and new answers as well as his earlier statemenets, and it would be logical from the R&D strategy point of view if they have explored the boundaries of the parameter space.

  • Perhaps Rossi’s supervisors prefer to hide the direction of their R&D efforts from competitors.

    It’s implausible that Rossi voluntarily says one minute that they’re working to make the reactors smaller and then the next that it’s not (currently) possible.

    Somebody asked him to change it.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      1-2 years ago he spoke about R&D with 100-300 W reactors while Mark’s question was about pill size devices. Maybe they have already done 100-300 W range and then hit some problem if trying to miniaturise further. That would be consistent with the old and new answers as well as his earlier statemenets, and it would be logical from the R&D strategy point of view if they have explored the boundaries of the parameter space.

  • JDM

    Spark plug sized. A hole thru the center tapped and fitted with an injector valve to flash water to steam. Replace the gas tank with a water tank.
    Steam engine! (maybe tweak the computer a bit)

  • JDM

    Spark plug sized. A hole thru the center tapped and fitted with an injector valve to flash water to steam. Replace the gas tank with a water tank.
    Steam engine! (maybe tweak the computer a bit)

  • MMK

    Even with 100-300 W reactors , the idea is still applicable. Instead of trying to control the reaction, just let it go to maximum temperature and melt and vaporised safely. Remember at higher temperatures, his Cat is more efficient. DO that one a minute and you have a decent power plant.

  • Ophelia Rump

    The tubes made them able to fly after an EMP pulse, unlike the American jets of the time.
    That was a big wake up call for the U.S.

  • JOE

    If Rossi can empty all 1kw Hotcat energy density into a safe chamber every minute
    He could easily build a huge power plant the size of a small container.

    6x30x24x60x60 x1000 is 15.5 GJ per minute
    Or 259 MW power plant.

    • MMK

      May be an Ecat engine, run on Ni power, hydrogen, and catalyst

    • Pekka Janhunen

      The problem probably is that only a small fraction of the theoretical 6 month equivalent energy would be liberated before the material melts. The liberated energy in that case might not exceed chemical energy by a large factor. Still, it might possibly exceed it by some factor which would make the idea worth considering – the main question might then be how to optimise the manufacture of new reactors so that it does not consume much energy and how to make them on site from recycled nickel.

      I could imagine, however, that if one lets the stuff melt and perhaps partly vapourise, the chamber becomes dirty when nickel and catalysts from the reactor pills melt, vapourise and condense on the walls. Such condensation might clog the hole or door, for example, from which the pills are put in. A similar problem exists in ICF (or would, if they would have gotten that far).

      • joe

        The energy relasing efficiency is not understood (Rossi would know best). The rest is just engineering challenges. Perhaps a large 60 tubes rotating roulette with self loading and the melted cats are contained in each tube, which gets pushed, cleaned out by a plunger into a recycling bin. Reloaded and continue… Imaging lol!!

      • JKC

        perhaps something like this
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soiGsZj7hn0

    • joe

      Even at 1 per 10 minutes it’s still 25MW

  • Ophelia Rump

    I would be happy with one the size of a Mr. Fusion capable of powering a Delorein.

    As long as it is smaller and lighter than 10 Gallons of gasoline and has a power output to replace the power source of conventional automobiles, it will be a revolution in yet another major field of endeavor.

    If they sell individual Hot-Cats, I expect to see aftermarket kits for this in the first year.

    • Sadly for that idea, IH’s focus seems to be on entirely on the industrial – generators possibly followed by marine and locomotive propulsion (the ‘jet engine’ or steam turbine stuff?). This industrial market will probably saturate global production capacity for a few decades, and CF power units in cars may be a long way away.

      De Lorean cars are definitely looking a bit ’70s these days, but I suppose they have a kind of period charm.

      http://delorean.com/for-sale/

      By coincidence I saw the ‘Back to the Future’ prop car last year at an ex tin mine cum retail complex in Cornwall.

  • Rene

    I recall Rossi mentioned that at runaway situations, he was worried about neutron flux generation.

  • Rene

    I recall Rossi mentioned that at runaway situations, he was worried about neutron flux generation.

  • Argon

    Hmmm. Miniaturizing, is it really needed? I was thinking that making as big as plausible (50-100 kW) is the first priority, to take over future powerplant renewal/replacement projects. Then home units (5-25kW) to decentralized/off the grid energy production.

    When that is done in large enough scale to make energy cheap, we can ‘produce’ other more portable energy forms, like hydrogen and use that in miniature apps (like army uses catalytic pocket heaters as just one example, or miniature hydrogen fuel cells for smartphones/tablets, that is existing technology already, but not in use since logistics).

    I also think that other technologies, like battery development doesn’t stop there, so when we have cheap energy in one form (preferrably electricity), we can use other technologies to fill the ‘usability gaps’ conveniently.

    • malkom700

      I agree, a very good summary of the situation. It must be realized that the decisive moment is to just any device used any COP began industrial work. This moment is very close, because we have a lot of competitors. It will be a historic moment.

    • bachcole

      For the purposes of reducing pollution, Ar is right on. For the purposes of promoting adoption, ANY commercial application will greatly help. But teeny, tiny applications won’t have the impact that reducing the costs of a utility company will have. Plus, the teeny, tiny applications would be, it seems to me, much more difficult to achieve than reducing the costs of a utility company. So, for practical reasons, I come up agreeing completely with Ar. So, why did I comment? Because it is fun to apply critical thinking to thinking. It is called philosophy. (:->) And it might help someone in the future.

  • Argon

    Hmmm. Miniaturizing, is it really needed? I was thinking that making as big as plausible (50-100 kW) is the first priority, to take over future powerplant renewal/replacement projects. Then home units (5-25kW) to decentralized/off the grid energy production.

    When that is done in large enough scale to make energy cheap, we can ‘produce’ other more portable energy forms, like hydrogen and use that in miniature apps (like army uses catalytic pocket heaters as just one example, or miniature hydrogen fuel cells for smartphones/tablets, that is existing technology already, but not in use since logistics).

    I also think that other technologies, like battery development doesn’t stop there, so when we have cheap energy in one form (preferrably electricity), we can use other technologies to fill the ‘usability gaps’ conveniently.

    • malkom700

      I agree, a very good summary of the situation. It must be realized that the decisive moment is to just any device used any COP began industrial work. This moment is very close, because we have a lot of competitors. It will be a historic moment.

    • bachcole

      For the purposes of reducing pollution, Ar is right on. For the purposes of promoting adoption, ANY commercial application will greatly help. But teeny, tiny applications won’t have the impact that reducing the costs of a utility company will have. Plus, the teeny, tiny applications would be, it seems to me, much more difficult to achieve than reducing the costs of a utility company. So, for practical reasons, I come up agreeing completely with Ar. So, why did I comment? Because it is fun to apply critical thinking to thinking. It is called philosophy. (:->) And it might help someone in the future.

  • erikberlingo
  • Henk

    The idea is not new: Remember project Orion ?
    If implemented we would have reached Mars years ago

    • GreenWin

      Henk, are we not already there??

      • Henk

        Not with boots on the ground

  • Henk

    The idea is not new: Remember project Orion ?
    If implemented we would have reached Mars years ago

    • GreenWin

      Henk, are we not already there??

      • Henk

        Not with boots on the ground

  • denkdochmalmit

    Rossi is working on this, Rossi is working on that..
    But absoluty NO results!
    10.0000th are wayting for the Homeunit – but nothing!
    I think there is not coming very much…

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “Denk doch mal mit?” I better do not comment… The domestic reactors require certification. You could not simply sell them, even if you were sure that they are operating well. Rossi did not obtain the certification up to now, because there is still not enough data about long-term safety. His low-temperature, multi-core industrial plants, which are designated to be used by trained personnel, are already certified. Rossi has often stressed the fact that obtaining the certification for a device which is intended to be operated by laymen is much more difficult. At least from my experience that sounds reasonable.

      • Charles

        Does “Denk doch mal mit” mean: Is Mitt gonna run again?

    • Ophelia Rump

      The word “results” has a slightly different meaning from “Your personal gratification.”
      And somehow I get the sense you would be horrified, not gratified if you were gifted a working unit.

      Would you like a little cheese with that whine?

    • Warthog

      Why do you think a for-profit business would reveal their trade secrets to you or anyone other than a customer or potential customer.

  • denkdochmalmit

    Rossi is working on this, Rossi is working on that..
    But absoluty NO results!
    10.0000th are wayting for the Homeunit – but nothing!
    I think there is not coming very much…

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “Denk doch mal mit?” I better do not comment… The domestic reactors require certification. You could not simply sell them, even if you were sure that they are operating well. Rossi did not obtain the certification up to now, because there is still not enough data about long-term safety. His low-temperature, multi-core industrial plants, which are designated to be used by trained personnel, are already certified. Rossi has often stressed the fact that obtaining the certification for a device which is intended to be operated by laymen is much more difficult. At least from my experience that sounds reasonable.

      • Christina

        denkdochmalmit is German and is probably an idiom. It’s equal to “think it through” or “use your brains” and so forth.

        • GreenWin

          Nice to see the German shills still on payroll. 🙂

      • Charles

        Does “Denk doch mal mit” mean: Is Mitt gonna run again?

    • Ophelia Rump

      The word “results” has a slightly different meaning from “Your personal gratification.”
      And somehow I get the sense you would be horrified, not gratified if you were gifted a working unit.

      Would you like a little cheese with that whine?

    • Warthog

      Why do you think a for-profit business would reveal their trade secrets to you or anyone other than a customer or potential customer.

  • mcloki

    Since Rossi is doing R&D. Do you think it might be feasible that a “client”, “cough Military”, who needed a smaller version of the e-cat, was footing the bill.

  • mcloki

    Since Rossi is doing R&D. Do you think it might be feasible that a “client”, “cough Military”, who needed a smaller version of the e-cat, was footing the bill.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I sort of fail to see the strategy here. Is Rossi just freewheeling his research into whatever he likes or is there an idea behind it all? I would have thought he would spend all his time adapting the hot cats to power plant reactor replacements; the tiger. Instead it seems he does some research on one idea, then switches to another. There are now jet ecat turbines, mouse cat/hotcat combi’s, hot cats, low temp cats, antibiotic cats, tigers cats, gas cats, and probably more. You’d need a really big research team to be able to divide your reseach into so may topics.

    I suspect this is just the usual Rossi talk, otherwise he would have much bigger resources than he himself indicated.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      It’s true that he works with more than one idea, but the strategy behind it seems quite clear. The turbines are for producing electric power, that’s probably the most central goal. Probably all his new reactors nowadays have a separate ignitor which he calls the mouse, and all R&D reactors (perhaps with the exception of some very small ones) are HotCats. Probably no R&D goes on with low-temp E-cats any more. The tiger was part of his exploration how the system scales to large and small units, but is probably not active at the moment. He sometimes pursues the gas-heated option and seems to be doing so in particular with the turbine tests at the moment.

      So what is he doing presently? I get the impression that he’s mainly working with the turbine for electricity production (perhaps with potential spinoffs for aviation later on) and presently uses gas for heating it. Using gas makes commercial sense: it’s more profitable to sell all generated electricity and buy some gas rather than use part of it for resistive heating and buy no gas, because gas energy is 3 times cheaper than electric energy. In parallel, some of his R&D folks are probably looking into the system design of 1 MW and larger HotCat based plants (both heat-only and electricity producing) and some may be doing some rather low level research and exploration with miniaturised systems. There is also likely a separate downstream team, not part of the R&D department, which is working with 1 MW low-temp systems and retrofitting plants.

    • Omega Z

      Power plant reactor replacement is not so simple.
      They will require a major redesign for the Boilers. Likely Custom built for Each Power Plant. Power Plants themselves are not a standard off the shelf product. Each will be different.

      Your a Utility company. You take bids for a power plant. It’s design & components will vary according to who actually gets the Bid. You next plant may be a different builder. They will not be the same. Even if it’s the same builder, there will be incremental improvements & again, Different from the last. Basically, Each power plant is custom built.

      • Omega Z

        Just a Note.
        A Hot-cat Boiler would likely have a bigger footprint then the 1 it would replace, And in some cases, may not be economically feasible other then for a proof of concept.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I sort of fail to see the strategy here. Is Rossi just freewheeling his research into whatever he likes or is there an idea behind it all? I would have thought he would spend all his time adapting the hot cats to power plant reactor replacements; the tiger. Instead it seems he does some research on one idea, then switches to another. There are now jet ecat turbines, mouse cat/hotcat combi’s, hot cats, low temp cats, antibiotic cats, tigers cats, gas cats, and probably more. You’d need a really big research team to be able to divide your reseach into so may topics.

    I suspect this is just the usual Rossi talk, otherwise he would have much bigger resources than he himself indicated.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      It’s true that he works with more than one idea, but the strategy behind it seems quite clear. The turbines are for producing electric power, that’s probably the most central goal. Probably all his new reactors nowadays have a separate ignitor which he calls the mouse, and all R&D reactors (perhaps with the exception of some very small ones) are HotCats. Probably no R&D goes on with low-temp E-cats any more. The tiger was part of his exploration how the system scales to large and small units, but is probably not active at the moment. He sometimes pursues the gas-heated option and seems to be doing so in particular with the turbine tests at the moment.

      So what is he doing presently? I get the impression that he’s mainly working with the turbine for electricity production (perhaps with potential spinoffs for aviation later on) and presently uses gas for heating it. Using gas makes commercial sense: it’s more profitable to sell all generated electricity and buy some gas rather than use part of it for resistive heating and buy no gas, because gas energy is 3 times cheaper than electric energy. In parallel, some of his R&D folks are probably looking into the system design of 1 MW and larger HotCat based plants (both heat-only and electricity producing) and some may be doing some rather low level research and exploration with miniaturised systems. There is also likely a separate downstream team, not part of the R&D department, which is working with 1 MW low-temp systems and retrofitting plants.

    • Omega Z

      Power plant reactor replacement is not so simple.
      They will require a major redesign for the Boilers. Likely Custom built for Each Power Plant. Power Plants themselves are not a standard off the shelf product. Each will be different.

      Your a Utility company. You take bids for a power plant. It’s design & components will vary according to who actually gets the Bid. You next plant may be a different builder. They will not be the same. Even if it’s the same builder, there will be incremental improvements & again, Different from the last. Basically, Each power plant is custom built.

      • Omega Z

        Just a Note.
        A Hot-cat Boiler would likely have a bigger footprint then the 1 it would replace, And in some cases, may not be economically feasible other then for a proof of concept.

  • LukeDC

    Can anyone identify this cell on the Lenr Cars website?

    http://www.lenr-cars.com/images/lenr/CGS_Cell1.jpg

    Link on this page.

    http://www.lenr-cars.com/index.php/technology/lenr

  • p.j.

    Could I anybody ask what are the recent views of Ugo Bardi regarding Rossi Ecat?

  • A tiny reactor could be ignited (just heat it) and dropped in a water tank.
    Depending on the design of the reactor, it could obtain an equilibrium temperature (enough to continue the reaction – not enough to melt down).
    To switch them off, just take one at time and throw it in something very cold (water ice, CO2 ice).

    It would be a very interesting way to heat the swimming pool or to generate heat/steam for industrial purposes like food production or industrial washing machines.

  • I contacted Defkalion and they restated that:

    “Defkalion is currently in the process of finalizing the pre-industrial prototype unit that is required for certification.” – “We estimate that this will be (including the certification process) ready before the end of summer this year.”

    Defkalion had a chemical catalyst reactor design, but switched over to a spark driven system to break the H2 gas into H1. My suspicion is that this was done to achieve greater stability and controllability, and to negate any possibility of infringing on any Rossi patents.

    I hope both companies succeed and I believe both companies will produce usable products soon.

  • Omega Z

    I think Everyone else is waiting for Rossi’s E-cat to become available.They seem to produce small quantities of excess heat for long periods of time or large excess heat for very short periods. They all need Rossi’s secret sauce to be feasibly marketable in a reasonable fashion..

    I can visualize each of them having a team of technicians in a lab just waiting to dissect a Cat. Like a bunch of Hungry Wolves waiting for the sacrificial Lamb to be thrown into their midst.

  • Omega Z

    I note that some question Rossi’s different interests. He’s studying this. He’s Studying that. Why doesn’t he just Focus on “1” thing at a time.

    To which I would ask, Have you ever watched water boil, for weeks or months on end. They have computers/data loggers to do this. Only requiring occasional analysis over time. And Changes would likely only happen after this Data is collected. The Data is a necessity in order to know what needs fixed or what works.
    Of course, Rossi & about a dozen others working on this could just all set at a Table playing Texas Holdem or whatever while waiting. Not Very Business Savvy.

    It Makes sense to use this wait time to look at & Study other possibilities. Rossi & IH would have a lot of business interest in studying all the possibilities from a business point of view. It’s very likely most of this will be licensed out to other Corporations to Manufacture & Market.

    Why not Focus on developing the Hot-Cat for Power Plants. Because Contrary to what many think, It is a Limited Market. It doesn’t matter how many or how fast you can build E-cats. It’s how fast you can build Power Plants.

    Most power plants have a 10 to 15 year build time. Even in places such as China who can cut through the Red Tape at a whim can take many years.

    There’s many reasons for this. A limited number of skilled personnel, Engineers, Funding Etc..
    Turbine production. Their Large, Expensive & Precision. Being a little out of balance & they can fly apart. At the very least, being out of balance can drastically reduce life cycle. Generators are no different. And due to limited numbers of skilled personnel, All are limited in production. The Heat source is but a small part of the entire facility. Basically you have to wait.

    I suspect this has a lot to do with IH/Rossi’s involvement in the CHP/CCHP development. They would require smaller Turbines & Generators which are more readily available. Easier to manufacture. These could be deployed in Large Skyscrapers & apartment complexes & more economical because they use the excess heat for heating & cooling. Reaching efficiencies of 80%.

    I know everyone is impatient, But these 1st systems will not be economical for the average person. Compare it to the 1st Mainframe the size of a football field. Only the Government & Large Corporations will be able to justify the initial costs. Eventually they become smaller & cheaper then become available to the masses.

    I’ll be happy just to see the 1st one on the market. Because I know in time everything else will follow.

  • Omega Z

    I note that some question Rossi’s different interests. He’s studying this. He’s Studying that. Why doesn’t he just Focus on “1” thing at a time.

    To which I would ask, Have you ever watched water boil, for weeks or months on end. They have computers/data loggers to do this. Only requiring occasional analysis over time. And Changes would likely only happen after this Data is collected. The Data is a necessity in order to know what needs fixed or what works.
    Of course, Rossi & about a dozen others working on this could just all set at a Table playing Texas Holdem or whatever while waiting. Not Very Business Savvy.

    It Makes sense to use this wait time to look at & Study other possibilities. Rossi & IH would have a lot of business interest in studying all the possibilities from a business point of view. It’s very likely most of this will be licensed out to other Corporations to Manufacture & Market.

    Why not Focus on developing the Hot-Cat for Power Plants. Because Contrary to what many think, It is a Limited Market. It doesn’t matter how many or how fast you can build E-cats. It’s how fast you can build Power Plants.

    Most power plants have a 10 to 15 year build time. Even in places such as China who can cut through the Red Tape at a whim can take many years.

    There’s many reasons for this. A limited number of skilled personnel, Engineers, Funding Etc..
    Turbine production. Their Large, Expensive & Precision. Being a little out of balance & they can fly apart. At the very least, being out of balance can drastically reduce life cycle. Generators are no different. And due to limited numbers of skilled personnel, All are limited in production. The Heat source is but a small part of the entire facility. Basically you have to wait.

    I suspect this has a lot to do with IH/Rossi’s involvement in the CHP/CCHP development. They would require smaller Turbines & Generators which are more readily available. Easier to manufacture. These could be deployed in Large Skyscrapers & apartment complexes & more economical because they use the excess heat for heating & cooling. Reaching efficiencies of 80%.

    I know everyone is impatient, But these 1st systems will not be economical for the average person. Compare it to the 1st Mainframe the size of a football field. Only the Government & Large Corporations will be able to justify the initial costs. Eventually they become smaller & cheaper then become available to the masses.

    I’ll be happy just to see the 1st one on the market. Because I know in time everything else will follow.

  • bachcole

    This from Wiki: “Many critics of weaponized railgun systems claim running at a suitable
    exit velocity and rate of fire would consume too much power, though this would likely not be a problem for nuclear-powered systems such as on large warships or submarines.”