Chief Science Editor of Swedish Radio Defends E-Cat Programme

Ulrika Björkstén, chief science editor for Sveriges Radio has written an article in Ny Teknik which defends and explains the stance taken in the report recently aired about Andrea Rossi and the E-Cat. While Björkstén admits that there is no proof that the E-Cat does not work, and that scientists should have ‘open and inquisitive’ minds, she explains that there are four warning signs, which taken together offer a strong possibility that the Rossi and the E-Cat are not trustworthy:

  • “He has no formal training in the relevant fields.
  • “His energy catalyst is claimed to work through some form of cold fusion, LENR, or whatever one chooses to term effect. It is a reaction which in this case is contrary to previous scientific knowledge and an area that has a history of a long list of alleged breakthrough that could not be confirmed.
  • “He has a criminal record history related to an earlier alleged inventions in the field of energy.
  • “He refuses to let anyone look into the secret drawer and examine what’s really happening there.”

Björkstén states that scientists in public institutions have an obligation to take a scientific approach to research — implying that in the case of the the E-Cat, scientists in Sweden who are taking it seriously are taking a different approach.

She also says that bringing up Rossi’s past is relevant in this instance because his actions with regard to Petroldragon 20 years ago, have parallels with how he is acting today. She also brings up failed demonstrations and unconvincing isotopic analysis as reasons for being dubious about Rossi’s claims of the E-Cat.

One thing she doesn’t mention, however, is the report published by Levi, et al., which was done by (Swedish) scientists in controlled conditions which give a strong indication that the E-Cat does produced some kind of unexplained phenomenon — and which has led to the new round of testing, the results of which we are currently awaiting.

  • Christopher Calder

    1) Rossi has a master of engineering degree and has studied nuclear physics at university and on his own.

    2) All formal charges against Rossi were dropped and the false charge were related to pollution, not conning people out of money through an energy scam.

    3) Rossi sold his invention to a larger company and they know his E-Cat secrets and still wish to press ahead with the device, spending millions to bring the E-Cat/Hot-Cat to market.

    4) If you argue that anyone that is involved in LENR research is suspect because LENR is a new field of physics then you do not know the history of LENR and you do not know the long list of respected companies and scientists that have found LENR to be real.

    Ulrika Björkstén made a series of weak and incorrect arguments that are not logical or fair.

    • This is really well stated.

      What about the incredibly weak counterargument. If he’s a scammer he’s the worst scammer ever, releasing his device for independent testing over a period of *months* where any trick could be easily uncovered — multiple times!!! All after he’s already cashed in. I’d like to see any convinced nay-sayer put forth a complete scenario that explains Rossi’s and everyone else’s behavior that doesn’t blow chunks.

      Her point about not being allowed to look inside the black box is also factually incorrect. The device has been opened by Levi et al and also by Penon before that. There’s no hidden secret inside except for the composition of the powder. There’s clearly no normal chemical reaction taking place, nor is there any kind of radioactive fissile material.

      This is not the first time in history that protecting intellectual property has delayed open scientific investigation of a trade secret (of the powder/catalyst in this case).

      • Argon

        You point the main reasons I have kept following Rossi this long. Hard to think how he would make much more money other than already sold licenses, since everybody is waiting hard proof.
        What I wonder though is what is official status of the licensees after IH deal (remember ecat.com anybody?). I tried to ask this from Rossi in JONP, but he didn’t publish the question for some reason. (Spam filter? Why, since my questions has passed before?)

        • Omega Z

          As to licensees-
          Rossi has bought some out. One specific case was the German Car dealer.(Many here thought him a little shady) And I think those types were targeted for buyouts. Likely, I.H had some say in this with concerns of them being reputable.

          Also, there were some who had planned on a faster roll out & were in need of their cash for other concerns.
          However, Some like(Hydro Fusion Ltd) are fully intact & fully on board to go forward..
          Possibly some didn’t want to be bought out & Rossi made them an offer they couldn’t refuse.
          I’m sorry, Rossi’s Italian, I couldn’t resist the temptation. Me Bad 🙂

          • Argon

            Interesting. Where you have got the information?

    • Freethinker

      Hmm… don’t put too much load on the “master of engineering degree ” leg ….
      He has not earned a degree of engineering from an accredited school, it is generally accepted that it comes from a “degree mill”, i.e. it is a bought degree.

      Andrea Rossi has a master degree in philosophy from an accredited university, and has, during the years of work, for sure, amassed a skill that make him well enough equivalent to an engineer.

      To me he is more engineer, than many other I know with the the formal education. It is a matter of what you do in your chosen line of profession. If you tinker a lot with gadgets you will be an engineer, if you are a project manager, then you may amasse management skills, but it does not make you excel as an engineer, even though you may have the formal training.

      • Christopher Calder

        Rossi has a master of engineering degree. In Italy, that degree is often called a degree in the philosophy of engineering. It is not a degree in philosophy as in Socrates and Plato. It is a science and engineering degree.

        • Freethinker

          Excellent. You have a link to a document that may confirm that?

          I would say that typically educations with the “of philosophy” are rather
          relating to the free sciences like physics, chemistry, biology,
          astronomy, palaeontology, etc, and not engineering but I know it varies across the globe what they are named. Regardless, I would say that it would be something clearly stated in relation to the rest of the title, would it not?

      • Omega Z

        The “Degree Mill”
        I did a little looking into that. The Educational material wasn’t at fault.
        The primary problem was a lack of enough staff to of properly vetted the students work. They couldn’t even verify that the student did the work. it could easily have been done by someone else.

        Not all that different then present on line schools.
        Online-Phoenix University, has contracts with other schools to provide periodic classroom tests. Had the school Rossi took courses with done this, All would have been good.

        It Boils down to whether the student honestly did the studies or fudged it.
        It should be noted that many college professors have degrees from the same school. Some have removed it from their resume or taken other courses to enhance it’s credibility. Many Universities will honor it.
        My Opinion, Rossi did the studies. It’s in his character.
        Consider the shenanigans going on in mainstream Universities(Even the Elite), whats to question…

    • Gordon Docherty

      “All formal charges against Rossi were dropped and the false charge were
      related to pollution, not conning people out of money through an energy
      scam.”

      In fact, it gets better. Put Sweden, tires and waste oil together and you get:

      http://cassandraoil.com/en/ (established in 2011)

      So, turning tires and waste oil into usable oil is not so far fetched after all – and that far from being “impossible” PetrolDragon was actually just ahead of its time… either that or, to misquote Marcellus from Shakespeare’s Hamlet, “something is rotten in the state of Sweden”. I prefer the former explanation.

      • Omega Z

        And even Better-
        Ever notice the picture used in stories about Rossi & PetrolDragon usually includes the 1 with a pile of tires.

        Also Note: “PetrolDragon was (NOT) actually just ahead of its time”
        Others were also involved in this Technology. Thermal Depolymerization (TDP). Rossi’s was just the 1st to claim he could do it Economically. Today more then a dozen entities have deployed this technology.

        I add this portion for personal reasons-
        Couple years ago, Big Oil announced they had advanced this technology even further. They claim to be able to convert these recovered sources back to a virtual crude oil state. Providing a blank slate for it’s reuse.

        Why I find this Info so Fascinating: For years they’ve stated that most plastics & such can only be recycled for downstream use. Containers, pallets, Etc.. Ultimately, most of It ends up in the landfill. Taken back to it’s original state makes it all reusable… Cradle to Cradle

        The downside is this is energy intensive. Economical at $60 a barrel oil. Upside is LENR takes care of the energy intense part. $60 a barrel no longer applies.

  • 1) Rossi has a master of engineering degree and has studied nuclear physics at university and on his own.

    2) All formal charges against Rossi were dropped and the false charge were related to pollution, not conning people out of money through an energy scam.

    3) Rossi sold his invention to a larger company and they know his E-Cat secrets and still wish to press ahead with the device, spending millions to bring the E-Cat/Hot-Cat to market.

    4) If you argue that anyone that is involved in LENR research is suspect because LENR is a new field of physics then you do not know the history of LENR and you do not know the long list of respected companies and scientists that have found LENR to be real.

    Ulrika Björkstén made a series of weak and incorrect arguments that are not logical or fair.

    • This is really well stated.

      What about the incredibly weak counterargument. If he’s a scammer he’s the worst scammer ever, releasing his device for independent testing over a period of *months* where any trick could be easily uncovered — multiple times!!! All after he’s already cashed in. I’d like to see any convinced nay-sayer put forth a complete scenario that explains Rossi’s and everyone else’s behavior that doesn’t blow chunks.

      Her point about not being allowed to look inside the black box is also factually incorrect. The device has been opened by Levi et al and also by Penon before that. There’s no hidden secret inside except for the composition of the powder. There’s clearly no normal chemical reaction taking place, nor is there any kind of radioactive fissile material.

      This is not the first time in history that protecting intellectual property has delayed open scientific investigation of a trade secret (of the powder/catalyst in this case).

      ON EDIT: And of course the current report is rumored to include isotopic analysis of the nickel powder charge. I don’t know if she doesn’t know that or if she’s being willfully ignorant. The investigators’ response to her show clearly stated it.

      • Argon

        You point the main reasons I have kept following Rossi this long. Hard to think how he would make much more money other than already sold licenses, since everybody is waiting hard proof.
        What I wonder though is what is official status of the licensees after IH deal (remember ecat.com anybody?). I tried to ask this from Rossi in JONP, but he didn’t publish the question for some reason. (Spam filter? Why, since my questions has passed before?)

        • Broncobet

          Good question,why do you think?

        • Omega Z

          As to licensees-
          Rossi has bought some out. One specific case was the German Car dealer.(Many here thought him a little shady) And I think those types were targeted for buyouts. Likely, I.H had some say in this with concerns of them being reputable.

          Also, there were some who had planned on a faster roll out & were in need of their cash for other concerns.
          However, Some like(Hydro Fusion Ltd) are fully intact & fully on board to go forward..
          Possibly some didn’t want to be bought out & Rossi made them an offer they couldn’t refuse.
          I’m sorry, Rossi’s Italian, I couldn’t resist the temptation. Me Bad 🙂

          • Argon

            Interesting. Where you have got the information?

    • Freethinker

      Hmm… don’t put too much load on the “master of engineering degree ” leg ….
      He has not earned a degree of engineering from an accredited school, it is generally accepted that it comes from a “degree mill”, i.e. it is a bought degree.

      Andrea Rossi has a master degree in philosophy from an accredited university, and has, during the years of work, for sure, amassed a skill that make him well enough equivalent to an engineer.

      To me he is more engineer, than many other I know with the the formal education. It is a matter of what you do in your chosen line of profession. If you tinker a lot with gadgets you will be an engineer, if you are a project manager, then you may amasse management skills, but it does not make you excel as an engineer, even though you may have the formal training.

      • Rossi has a master of engineering degree. In Italy, that degree is often called a degree in the philosophy of engineering. It is not a degree in philosophy as in Socrates and Plato. It is a science and engineering degree.

        • Freethinker

          Excellent. You have a link to a document that may confirm that?

          I would say that typically educations with the “of philosophy” are rather
          relating to the free sciences like physics, chemistry, biology,
          astronomy, palaeontology, etc, and not engineering but I know it varies across the globe what they are named. Regardless, I would say that it would be something clearly stated in relation to the rest of the title, would it not?

          • bang

            “Andrea Rossi graduated in 1973 at the University of Milan, with an MA
            dissertation in Philosophy on the correlation between Einstein’s Theory
            of Relativity and Edmund Husserl’s Phenomenology.”
            ->http://ingandrearossi.net/ (Rossi’s own words from Rossi’s own “homepage”)
            So, this is not really “Engineering”, I believe.

      • Omega Z

        The “Degree Mill”
        I did a little looking into that. The Educational material wasn’t at fault.
        The primary problem was a lack of enough staff to of properly vetted the students work. They couldn’t even verify that the student did the work. it could easily have been done by someone else.

        Not all that different then present on line schools.
        Online-Phoenix University, has contracts with other schools to provide periodic classroom tests. Had the school Rossi took courses with done this, All would have been good.

        It Boils down to whether the student honestly did the studies or fudged it.
        It should be noted that many college professors have degrees from the same school. Some have removed it from their resume or taken other courses to enhance it’s credibility. Many Universities will honor it.
        My Opinion, Rossi did the studies. It’s in his character.
        Consider the shenanigans going on in mainstream Universities(Even the Elite), whats to question…

    • Gordon Docherty

      “All formal charges against Rossi were dropped and the false charge were
      related to pollution, not conning people out of money through an energy
      scam.”

      In fact, it gets better. Put Sweden, tires and waste oil together and you get:

      http://cassandraoil.com/en/ (established in 2011)

      So, turning tires and waste oil into usable oil is not so far fetched after all – and that far from being “impossible” PetrolDragon was actually just ahead of its time… either that or, to misquote Marcellus from Shakespeare’s Hamlet, “something is rotten in the state of Sweden”. I prefer the former explanation.

      • Omega Z

        And even Better-
        Ever notice the picture used in stories about Rossi & PetrolDragon usually includes the 1 with a pile of tires.

        Also Note: “PetrolDragon was (NOT) actually just ahead of its time”
        Others were also involved in this Technology. Thermal Depolymerization (TDP). Rossi’s was just the 1st to claim he could do it Economically. Today more then a dozen entities have deployed this technology.

        I add this portion for personal reasons-
        Couple years ago, Big Oil announced they had advanced this technology even further. They claim to be able to convert these recovered sources back to a virtual crude oil state. Providing a blank slate for it’s reuse.

        Why I find this Info so Fascinating: For years they’ve stated that most plastics & such can only be recycled for downstream use. Containers, pallets, Etc.. Ultimately, most of It ends up in the landfill. Taken back to it’s original state makes it all reusable… Cradle to Cradle

        The downside is this is energy intensive. Economical at $60 a barrel oil. Upside is LENR takes care of the energy intense part. $60 a barrel no longer applies.

    • bachcole

      If everything new is suspect, then there won’t be anything new.

  • Foks0904 .

    1) Formal training is not a requisite to learning and exceling at a trade. Like engineering for example. She is correct however that Rossi does not have a formal degree in engineering. As Mats’ book explains (if she even read it) that Rossi got much experience in his father’s machine shop for years in childhood and adolescence. Experience is sometimes the best teacher, not a formal degree.

    2) “Alleged breakthroughs that could not be confirmed.” What is she talking about? The excess heat evidence? The nuclear ash evidence? Trifitum & neutrons? What exactly? A plethora of breakthroughs have been replicated and confirmed. This is so vague as to border on stupidity.

    3) His alleged “crimes” (over 90% he was acquitted of) had nothing to do with whether the bio-tech process he had come up with worked or not. It had to do with changing laws and not staying in compliance with those laws, as well as questions pertaining to gold & silver trading. Rossi is no longer in control of the E-Cat, it’s Industrial Heats’ technology now, as far as we know. It’s not the same situation at all. The man paid his dues. If he’s fooling us again, or fooling himself, then we’ll find out and we can move on with our lives.

    4) “He refuses to let anyone look into the secret drawer and examine what’s really happening there.” OK. And? Can she explain what kind of known chemical energy source of those dimensions can provide the observed amount of excess heat over a period of days? Or how “hidden wires” were delivered to a system such as the E-Cat without burning out first? What hidden energy source is going to melt steel within the reactor? These “let us see inside” demands are warranted to a degree, but the extent they are taken to in an effort to “disprove” the technology is nonsense. If he had discovered a chemical energy source that can do what has been observed, he’d simply be marketing that and making millions.

    • Well put Folk.

    • Lui Dussan

      Second that

      • psi2u2

        Agree. Excellent detailed rebuttal.

    • kemosabe

      I wouldn’t disagree with your responses, except maybe (2), since by “confirmed” she surely means recognized as confirmed by the science community. But she is not claiming any one of these or even all 4 prove it is a scam. She is saying these are common characteristics of scams, and very rare characteristics (particularly (4), especially all four) in real scientific breakthroughs of this type.

      • Foks0904 .

        Sure, fair enough. But I simply wonder, even if the “signs” are there, if it’s not worth putting forward an even-handed account of the affair. Because there are as many characteristics about it that aren’t indicative of a scam (i.e. sloppy demos, various studies where he is not involved, showcased 1MW plant on date he said he would, hard to imagine a hidden energy source, has had several chances before IH to cash in, acquaintances from the U.S. thermo-electric business days stand by him as an inventor to this day, etcetera).

        • humblemechanic

          Sloppy demos and methodology coupled with imprecise
          statements over several years indicate that it could well
          be a “permanent state of affairs”. Will the coming report be
          the definitive one or just another one in the chain?

          • Omega Z

            Actually, Sloppy Demo’s are not a hallmark of a scam.
            Scams tend to usually be Clean & Slick.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      „Formal training is not a requisite to learning and excelling at a trade.“ Principally, I agree. Almost everything depends on the person. Somebody with a high grasp but no formal education may understand the problems of a certain field better than someone with two degrees in that field, but average abilities. There are some limitations regarding jobs where an error in the “trial-and-error” method can have fatal consequences. Surgery, for example, or structural engineering. But that’s not the kind of occupation Rossi practices. It has also been said that the view from outside can be a decisive advantage. Sometimes it is even necessary: As Gödel has shown, you cannot solve every problem which exists in a closed system with the means of that system alone.

      • Andrea rossi is born in a family of engineering business.
        He is probably more technology literate than many engineers today.
        We should not imagine engineers are magicians… we have strange mix of scientific literacy, management literacy, technology awareness and openness, curiosity, knowledge of our limits because we will never be as good in theory as scientist, as good in operation as technicians as good in management as managers… we connect.
        moreover there are many profile of engineers depending on the balance of experience and personality.

        Rossi have made many management mistakes, many technical mistakes, but he have some talent (stubbornness, absence of fear, optimism, resilience to failures) for the entrepreneurs and innovator, provided he is balanced by more classic personalities, and provided nobody take power on the others.
        Alone he is his worst enemy. in a team he is your best opportunity, provided you don’ try to tame him, just avoid the budget, the lab, or the client explodes.

  • Iceeater1969

    Rossi is expert in thermite.

    • it is a conspiracy… call Pomp, Huizenga, Taubes, Morrison, Parks, Krivit…

      it is a conspracy or just physicist were wrong about a chemistry measurement and refused to admit it? what do you think is the most credible…
      conspiracy for sure

  • Gerard McEk

    Ulrika Björkstén obviously did not learn from the hard comment she received on her programme. I wonder if she has ever talked with the Swedish scientists involved in the tests. She should have done that anyway to defend her position at this moment in time. As Christopher Calder clearly points out, her arguments are pathetic and do not reflect the situation with Rossi and LENR in general. Venting her arguments now is not very bright either. It is likely that she has signed her funeral as a reporter with this.

    • sure she did not get the information that Rossi have abandonned the copper theory (who is absurd it seems)…
      many believers of pathoskeptics simply see the world as black and white…
      one lie and you are a liar… they don’t know the everybody is sometime lying, and even many liars often don’t lie… life is too complex for those people.

    • bachcole

      So far I don’t see malevolent intent on her part, but her reputation will soon still be in shambles.

  • Job001

    To Ulrika Björkstén’s points;

    .No formal training is a good thing, it reduces “can’t do” bias and negativity.

    .”Contrary to previous scientific knowledge” is a good thing, otherwise no further research is needed.

    .”A long history of unconfirmed breakthrough” simply shows LENR+ is not easy and further research is needed. After all a billion billion stars do shine with immense power, fusion has been confirmed, how on Earth has not.

    .”Criminal record” is a good thing, correlating to many a scientists success.

    .”Refuses secret drawer access” is a good thing called protecting IP.

  • Jonnyb

    Focardi had formal training in this area, however I don’t think that there is any real formal training in LENR as it is still in it’s infancy, so a bit of a stupid comment in my view

  • malkom700

    Currently before the independent third-party testing is complete the attack against Rossi indicates a high level of personal courage. These people to kick at work. Chief Science Editor…

  • malkom700

    Currently before the independent third-party testing is complete the attack against Rossi indicates a high level of personal courage. These people to kick at work. Chief Science Editor…

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Ulrika Björkstén, Chief Science Editor of Swedish Public Radio, encourages scientists to disregard health concerns when doing research. Ms. Björkstén states, “Focusing on health threats have a negative impact on the scientific process.”

    http://www.adlibris.com/se/bok/vetenskap-ur-funktion-forskningen-om-biologiska-effekter-av-mobiltelefoni-9789173530033

    PS One way to fight the injustice of bringing up Rossi’s past is to use Björkstén’s own words (history) against her.

    • Ted-X

      Somebody has to defend Ulrika, so I will do that. Ulrika has to write what she is told to write and support somehow the clumsy statements. All journalists are soldiers, and deserters get what the deserters usually get (the firing squad). See Mr. Gibbs, who only slightly deviated from the official line. Discussions with journalists are not discussions with people who can freely express their own opinion. Ulrika might even have her own opinion quite opposite to what she has to say. Journalists are not saying what they think… only deserters do.

      • Frank Acland

        One of the joys of having an independent web site.

  • Matt Smart

    I’m surprised she hasn’t withheld her comments until after the third party report is released to the public. Every point she has mentioned is easily rebuked as most who follow the field of LENR/CF and especially who have followed Rossi’s progress already know. I think she is either very silly and naive or she has some inside information that all is not well with the 3rd party report?

    • dis you know the the boss of Enrn, who fired the consultant who found the frauds hi did, kept his equities because he was convinced to be right with his corporate strategy…

      He could have sold all, escaped, but he finished poor in jail.

      http://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/Patterns%20of%20Denial%204l%20fin.pdf

      the principle of mutual assured delusion causing groupthink, is that the more you are losing from the group delusion, the more you support it

      http://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/Groupthink%20IOM%202012_07_02%20BW.pdf

      she invest too much in that groupthink to be able to think she can be just wrong.

      • LCD

        For anybody that has done their homework the scam angle I think has been thoroughly beaten down. I don’t believe that anybody with formal training in physics or not can at this point seriously entertain that possibility as still in play.

        What can still possibly be claimed is a combination of self delusion and systematic yet uncaught mistakes that keep inflating the apparent gain in energy. That combination could fool a lot of well-intentioned physicists.

        BUT that’s why you have more than one eyeball looking at it. At this point Rossi has had many eyeballs look at his stuff. And with every person that looks at it the confidence meter goes up.

        By the time the second third party test report comes out you can probably eliminate that possibility as well.

        • LCD

          Where is Krivit these days by the way. Has he finally given up his not-so-subtle insistence that Rossi is an obvious fraud?

          • GreenWin

            Disguised as gary wright??

          • US_Citizen71

            or maybe Merry Yogurt?

        • deleo77

          I agree that if the e-cat is shown not to work this time around, it will point to experimental and measurements errors that were made by all of the people who have tested the e-cat in previous tests, and it is not a scam. Even some of the most hardened skeptics will tell you that the only real way for it to be a scam is if Levi is in on it. He would have had to manipulate the different tests to fool the group from Sweden etc. I just think that is remote or not even possible at this point; especially after reading Levi’s quotes in Lewan’s book, which were some of the best one’s in there. Skeptics will vehemently disagree with this, but Levi said he is not in on any kind of a scam, and I choose to believe him.

          • Ophelia Rump

            How utterly frightening it must be, to be one of the scientists involved in this.
            They are going to reach a point very soon where they will either change the world, or be thrown beneath the wheels of it.

            The entire human race should be grateful to have such champions.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            Yeah, but they can’t be as frightened as the ones who’ve been slandering F&P for a quarter of a century.

          • LCD

            Yeah I’m with you there

  • Matt Smart

    I’m surprised she hasn’t withheld her comments until after the third party report is released to the public. Every point she has mentioned is easily rebuked as most who follow the field of LENR/CF and especially who have followed Rossi’s progress already know. I think she is either very silly and naive or she has some inside information that all is not well with the 3rd party report?

  • psi2u2

    Agree. Excellent detailed rebuttal.

  • Stranno

    Wouldn’ t it be a farce for scientists in the field of LENR if an “outsider” would reveal the secrets of cold fusion?

  • robyn wyrick

    I agree with her.

    * Unlike Rossi, I do have a degree in Dry-Nickle-Hydrogen Cold Fusion from one of the many universities offering such degrees.

    * Unlike Rossi, all of the Cold Fusion devices we studied at university were careful to abide by previous scientific knowledge, and so contribute absolutely nothing. As we scientists say all the time, innovation-schminovation, there is nothing new under the sun.

    * Unlike RossiI – I have no criminal record, which means I can speak authoritatively about him.

    * And finally, Unlike Rossi, every time I have come across a world-changing innovation that the USPTO refuses to protect, I have simply handed it over to let anybody “examine what’s really happening there.”

    As I always say: take a good look at my secret drawers.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Say what?

      Please provide a link to the program from which you attained your degree in Dry-Nickle-Hydrogen Cold Fusion.

      I did not know that they offered degrees in the patently impossible.

      • robyn wyrick

        No problem. Though it is kind of funny, if you imagine that, in ten years, a person might actually be able to attain such a degree.

        My favorite is the argument that LENR doesn’t comport with existing theory (presumably the . Neither does Gravity. And Dark Matter is a very recent candidate. Universal Expansion-Acceleration was only found in 1998.

        But as Ms. Björkstén will explain, science never finds anything new.

  • robyn wyrick

    I agree with her.

    * Unlike Rossi, I do have a degree in Dry-Nickle-Hydrogen Cold Fusion from one of the many universities offering such degrees.

    * Unlike Rossi, all of the Cold Fusion devices we studied at university were careful to abide by previous scientific knowledge, and so contribute absolutely nothing. As we scientists say all the time, innovation-schminovation, there is nothing new under the sun.

    * Unlike RossiI – I have no criminal record, which means I can speak authoritatively about him.

    * And finally, Unlike Rossi, every time I have come across a world-changing innovation that the USPTO refuses to protect, I have simply handed it over to let anybody “examine what’s really happening there.”

    As I always say: take a good look at my secret drawers.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Say what?

      Please provide a link to the program from which you attained your degree in Dry-Nickle-Hydrogen Cold Fusion.

      I did not know that they offered degrees in the patently impossible.

      Oh sorry that is a jest you were making. My apologies, the insanity of the source material is clouding my judgement.

      • robyn wyrick

        No problem. Though it is kind of funny, if you imagine that, in ten years, a person might actually be able to attain such a degree.

        My favorite is the argument that LENR doesn’t comport with existing theory (presumably the . Neither does Gravity. And Dark Matter is a very recent candidate. Universal Expansion-Acceleration was only found in 1998.

        But as Ms. Björkstén will explain, science never finds anything new.

  • Guru

    Folks, LENR Fans, easy please.

    How many limited humans (which was not capable to execute some moderate analysis) You spotted in your life ?

    Few tens of thousands ?

    Yeah, one Ms. Bjorkstein and you had derailed ?

    Some folks simply don’t know little calculations, other don’t understand banking system, and Bjorkstein is little hysteric about Rossi. Or she attacked IH ?

  • The title make me furious and happy, as it would be a tomb when the report get out.

    I have made an article, about the fact that

    “Cold fusion is NOT contrary to scientific knowledge” but simple proven according to the Scientific method.

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/401-Ulrika-Bj%C3%B6rkst%C3%A9n-Cold-fusion-is-contrary-to-scientific-knowledge/?postID=790#post790

    • kemosabe

      Peter Hagelstein: “In 1989 a variety of arguments were put forth in connection with excess heat in the Fleischmann-Pons experiment, and one of the most powerful was that such an effect is not consistent with condensed matter physics, and also not consistent with nuclear physics. In essence, it is impossible based on existing theory in these fields. There is no question as to whether this is true or not (it is true).”

      • Cold fusion is not inconsistent with quantum physics in lattice, simply because we don’t master multi-body quantum physics to be able to forbid more than what is evident (conservations laws), and one have to take care not to introduce invisible assumption in his claim that a conservation law is broken.

        for example the simpleminded physicist said that conservation of momentum was asking for emission of gamma. In twobody physics it is true.

        In multi-body physics, with coupling with the lattice, with pseudoparticle, with BEC of pseudo particles not yet imagined, energy can be dissipated in much smaller quanta, like what happen in mossbauer effect (not the same indeed).

        there is unless there is new evidence, NO NEED FOR ANY NEW PHYSICS.

        we only need NEW PHYSICISTS. with more imagination, better knowledge of collective effects, pseudo particles, non 3D dimension lattice (1D, 2D, fractal).

        see the naive and conservative proposed theory of Ed Storms (hydroton) which I consider as the only credible today, at least as an approach.

        http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEexplaining.pdf

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfpdvwaQSnA

        what he propose ? 1D objects hidden in defects of a 3D lattice not far from a more than 2D fractal border…

        when physicist will have cartografied all the possibilities of pseudoparticles, of topological structures, they could say “impossible”, for now they have to say “please give me more experimental data to have more hint”

    • Ophelia Rump

      Science is supposed to live to uncover things which are real but contrary to the knowledge of the day.

      Anyone with eyes wired shut is no scientist. Maybe they are a cultist or religious zealot.

  • The title make me furious and happy, as it would be a tomb when the report get out.

    I have made an article, about the fact that

    “Cold fusion is NOT contrary to scientific knowledge” but simple proven according to the Scientific method.

    http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/401-Ulrika-Bj%C3%B6rkst%C3%A9n-Cold-fusion-is-contrary-to-scientific-knowledge/?postID=790#post790

    • kemosabe

      Peter Hagelstein: “In 1989 a variety of arguments were put forth in connection with excess heat in the Fleischmann-Pons experiment, and one of the most powerful was that such an effect is not consistent with condensed matter physics, and also not consistent with nuclear physics. In essence, it is impossible based on existing theory in these fields. There is no question as to whether this is true or not (it is true).”

      • Cold fusion is not inconsistent with quantum physics in lattice, simply because we don’t master multi-body quantum physics to be able to forbid more than what is evident (conservations laws), and one have to take care not to introduce invisible assumption in his claim that a conservation law is broken.

        for example the simpleminded physicist said that conservation of momentum was asking for emission of gamma. In twobody physics it is true.

        In multi-body physics, with coupling with the lattice, with pseudoparticle, with BEC of pseudo particles not yet imagined, energy can be dissipated in much smaller quanta, like what happen in mossbauer effect (not the same indeed).

        there is unless there is new evidence, NO NEED FOR ANY NEW PHYSICS.

        we only need NEW PHYSICISTS. with more imagination, better knowledge of collective effects, pseudo particles, non 3D dimension lattice (1D, 2D, fractal).

        see the naive and conservative proposed theory of Ed Storms (hydroton) which I consider as the only credible today, at least as an approach.

        http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEexplaining.pdf

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfpdvwaQSnA

        what he propose ? 1D objects hidden in defects of a 3D lattice not far from a more than 2D fractal border…

        when physicist will have cartografied all the possibilities of pseudoparticles, of topological structures, they could say “impossible”, for now they have to say “please give me more experimental data to have more hint”

        • kemosabe

          Murray Gell-Mann: “Cold fusion is theoretically impossible”. I hope you understand if more attention is paid to his view and the view of a prominent LENR theoretician (Hagelstein) than yours.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Science is supposed to live to uncover things which are real but contrary to the knowledge of the day.

      Anyone with eyes wired shut is no scientist. Maybe they are a cultist or religious zealot.

      They support science as long as nothing new is learned.

      There were once flatworlders, now there are static-sciencers, and they are in charge of science publishing.

      Science needs to purge these people from their support infrastructure, I knew modern science journalism was horrendous, but this is obstructionist.

      Do they publish articles about people living alongside dinosaurs six thousand years ago?

  • blanco69

    She’s clearly more ‘news’ than science with her 4 killer points which proves, at least in her mind, that the ecat is a fake. She wouldn’t want truth to get in the way of a good gossip. I’m all for individuals questioning Rossi’s motives and methods because the ecat is almost beyond belief. However, pointing at those 4 points of rumour, innuendo and speculation doesn’t constitute a serious conclusion of fakery in my book.

  • blanco69

    She’s clearly more ‘news’ than science with her 4 killer points which proves, at least in her mind, that the ecat is a fake. She wouldn’t want truth to get in the way of a good gossip. I’m all for individuals questioning Rossi’s motives and methods because the ecat is almost beyond belief. However, pointing at those 4 points of rumour, innuendo and speculation doesn’t constitute a serious conclusion of fakery in my book.

  • Ophelia Rump

    If they were in a canoe, they would be screaming Backwater! Backwater! and look like they were furiously trying to stand still.

  • Ophelia Rump

    If they were in a canoe, they would be screaming Backwater! Backwater!, and look like they were furiously trying to stand still.

    Fall, its a fall

    a fall

    FALL

  • Sanjeev

    Only four points and that too mostly unconvincing?
    I can produce about 20 points that prove that Ecat works and they will be true and factual.
    That person is most probably not aware that :
    1) There are no formal courses in universities on cold fusion (surprise!), so he couldn’t get a training. Just the Wright brothers couldn’t train themselves in the field of flying machine mechanics.
    2) There are just too many successful replications of cold fusion to mention. It demonstrates a very big incompetence or bias if you state the opposite. Simply check lenr-canr.or or all those ICCF cons.
    3) Its like saying computers do not work because Turing was gay.
    4) He did ! IH knows everything, they have the tech now. There are so many secret formulas in the world from weapons to cold drinks to chicken recipes. Probably they are also all fakes.

    The lack of rational thinking and failure to do research, interview the people who know Ecat intimately, and failure to honestly mention both sides of the argument , all this is really shocking and shows the pitiful state of science reporting.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Sir you have impugned the reputation of Colonel Sanders, take that back or any number of Americans will feel obliged to challenge you in a duel!

      The secret recipe is real!

      Truely in parts of the U.S. I think your life would be endangered challenging the secret recipes existence. How odd that, what could be the beginning of a new age of man would be greeted so rudely. The age of LENR.

      • Sanjeev

        Fortunately I can always make up a half baked radio show and win that duel.
        Because, as everyone knows, a radio show is the best way to settle any arguments such as if a chicken or an Ecat is real, we do not need validation reports, serious scientific research or honest unbiased thinking to do that.
        Of course, who can best decide if a breakthrough invention witnessed by many scientists and industry giants is real , if not a radio show editor?

    • deleo77

      I think that is my issue somewhat too. There is too much of an obsession with Rossi. Yes, the e-cat is his baby. And if it turns out to work and it changes the world, then Rossi deserves all of the credit for inventing this device. But, how many times does it have to be said… Rossi does not own the e-cat or the technology behind it. Industrial Heat does. Rossi is not the CEO of IH, he is an employee there. Other people at IH are responsible for the continued development, manufacturing, and commercial roll-out of the e-cat. These people come from a variety of disciplines, and they know everything about the e-cat that Rossi does, including what is inside of it.

      Rossi sold the technology behind the e-cat because he knew he needed all of this help if the e-cat is to ever succeed in the marketplace. Rossi did not pocket $11.5MM in the sale, rather he took most of his compensation in the form of future payments to him, either as a royalty on future sales, or stock options, or both. So where is the mention of Tom Darden, or the other people involved in IH as either investors or employees? Because surely there are a bunch of them. But people continue to act as if Rossi is sitting in a room by himself masterminding some huge scam. He is not.

      • Omega Z

        Their stuck in the past.

        No one has updated their Script 🙂 Parrots are like that. Takes a long time to retrain them.

    • Mike

      Send the e-cat to DVGW, KIWA or other test organisation that perform tests for CE marking. That would be an independent test done by skilled test people. They choose the test instrumentation, test program etc. I cannot understand why Mr Rossi havn’t done that to avoid all further questions.

      By the way, what happened to the e-cat that was shipped and installed a year ago???

      ….and the Swedish scientists that believe in the e-cat were intervied in the programs, so both sides were covered. Rossi choose not to answer any question. He got the opportunity.

  • AB

    I think this premature attack is poor strategy. They’ve used some of their ammunition before the report came out. I think they’ll find it harder to influence the discussion the day the report comes out. Then again, if the report is solid, their position is doomed in any case.

    • not sure, in fact maybe they have prepared their camp of believers in lenr scam to ignore any incoming data.

      the strategy of groupthink victim is to ignore data. for that they need good excuse.
      for example many physicist ignore lenr evidence, because they say the affair is closed and they have better work to do (Pomp nearly said that on 3TIP).

      when a test will came out they should have good reason to doubt on any claim in the test.
      this is why it is very important to say the testers are corrupted, levi is corrupted, elforsk is corrupted.
      they will thus ignore all , and check nothing, and propagate their self confidence to the masses, without any risk of cognitive dissonance.

      • builditnow

        Correct, they will even deny it if Rossi has a 1 megawatt unit open for public inspection, but, they could start to look foolish, after a while, if the the public can go visit a working unit (Rossi has hinted this could happen).

        Some people could get very angry, what could these people do to stop LENR / Cold Fusion?

        On the other hand, wouldn’t deliberately resisting LENR constitute crimes against the world at some point soon?

  • AB

    I think this premature attack is poor strategy. They’ve used some of their ammunition before the report came out. I think they’ll find it harder to influence the discussion the day the report comes out. Then again, if the report is solid, their position is doomed in any case.

    • not sure, in fact maybe they have prepared their camp of believers in lenr scam to ignore any incoming data.

      the strategy of groupthink victim is to ignore data. for that they need good excuse.
      for example many physicist ignore lenr evidence, because they say the affair is closed and they have better work to do (Pomp nearly said that on 3TIP).

      when a test will came out they should have good reason to doubt on any claim in the test.
      this is why it is very important to say the testers are corrupted, levi is corrupted, elforsk is corrupted.
      they will thus ignore all , and check nothing, and propagate their self confidence to the masses, without any risk of cognitive dissonance.

      • AstralProjectee

        Good point so your saying that they don’t have to debunk anything all they have to do is paint the LENR testers as corrupted and they can say whatever they like. Yeah that sounds pretty sleaze.

      • builditnow

        Correct, they will even deny it if Rossi has a 1 megawatt unit open for public inspection, but, they could start to look foolish, after a while, if the the public can go visit a working unit (Rossi has hinted this could happen).

        Some people could get very angry, what could these people do to stop LENR / Cold Fusion?

        On the other hand, wouldn’t deliberately resisting LENR constitute crimes against the world at some point soon?

  • bachcole

    Everything that she said could be applied to the Wright Bros. and any number of other breakthrough inventions. Her reputation will soon be trash.

  • jousterusa

    It’s very encouraging that in this first instance of a concerted attack by a reputable source – Sweden’s version of National Public Radio (NPR) – the attacker is on the run, having to defend itself against a very aroused and angry group of credible scientists who are convinced something important is happening in the E Cat, LENR and cold fusion. This is a most refreshing development!

  • LilyLover

    “He has no formal training in the relevant fields.”
    • If all the experts of the field put together lack the ability to solve the major problems faced in the field, doesn’t it raise the issue of questionnability of the value of the ‘formal training’?

    Old days: Teach grammar; allow creative freedom; they write a good novel.
    Nowadays: Train in grammar for 60 years; by the age 65, they are too tired to write a novel; use’em as “critics” / editors / gatekeepers.
    =============================
    “It is a reaction which in this case is contrary to previous scientific knowledge and an area that has a history of a long list of alleged breakthrough that could not be confirmed.”
    • If you fail at first, try again … err … If you fail at first, disparage others that try second attempts. Since, Napoleon always wins, he must have won at waterloo just like Rothschilds had implied. 1929. 2008. ‘Past performance is not a guarantee of future success.’ But why? It is!
    Also, unsuccessful breakthroughs is primal indicator of lack of future success.
    Edison. Fail? Stop.
    Or,
    Are persistent efforts without tangible success any indicators of theoretical conviction and experimental zeal?
    Also,
    Politicians have provided long list of alleged breakthroughs, therefore we should stop voting instead of voting wisely.
    =============================
    “He has a criminal record history related to an earlier alleged inventions in the field of energy.”
    • So did Galileo.
    You breathe air; he breaths air. Air pollution is poisonous. Therefore, the air filter that he developed causes air-pollution. Therefore un/sucessful attempts at air purification is same as spreading poison.
    Petroldragon -> Shell Clean Diesel Technology (partly)
    =============================
    “He refuses to let anyone look into the secret drawer and examine what’s really happening there.”
    • When BigOilish people want to steal his IP through regulatory channels, how’s one supposed to protect and flaunt it too?
    New meaning of deep pockets- the Rossi’s drawer is so big, so big… – that it houses the ECats, the Swedish University, the Car rarking for the independent testers, IH HQ etc.

    Also, if that’s too far fetched – Rossi is the greatest hypnotist. All he people under his spell, although honest, are deluded. Hence the positive or negative. You never know when the hypnotism breaks!
    =============================

    For the SRC challenged – I love Dr. Rossi.

    • GreenWin

      Well put LL.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I have a question which has never been raised before.

    If the H-Cat runs at a higher efficiency, produces higher heat output and more of it, what is the corresponding change in the life of the nickel charge. Does the charge last just as long, perhaps because more isotopes become involved at the higher temperatures.

    Do the charges require replacement more frequently?

    There is no indication that this test involved exhausting multiple nickel charges.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I have a question which has never been raised before.

    If the H-Cat runs at a higher efficiency, produces higher heat output and more of it, what is the corresponding change in the life of the nickel charge? Does the charge last just as long?
    It might, perhaps because more isotopes become involved at the higher reaction density.

    Do the charges require replacement more frequently?
    Is there a higher percentage of transmuted material at the end of the charge’s life?

    There is no indication yet that this test involved exhausting multiple nickel charges.
    Potentially indicating that there is much greater fuel efficiency.

    The significance is that the earlier estimate of the available energy per volume would become far too small an estimate. Assuming it was based upon measurement, and not upon nuclear theory.

    The calculation in the Forbes article seems to indicate the value was based upon the test,not theory.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/20/finally-independent-testing-of-rossis-e-cat-cold-fusion-device-maybe-the-world-will-change-after-all/

  • LCD

    For anybody that has done their homework the scam angle I think has been thoroughly beaten down. I don’t believe that anybody with formal training in physics or not can at this point seriously entertain that possibility as still in play.

    What can still possibly be claimed is a combination of self delusion and systematic yet uncaught mistakes that keep inflating the apparent gain in energy. That combination could fool a lot of well-intentioned physicists.

    BUT that’s why you have more than one eyeball looking at it. At this point Rossi has had many eyeballs look at his stuff. And with every person that looks at it the confidence meter goes up.

    By the time the second third party test report comes out you can probably eliminate that possibility as well.

    • LCD

      Where is Krivit these days by the way. Has he finally given up his not-so-subtle insistence that Rossi is an obvious fraud?

      • GreenWin

        Disguised as gary wright??

        • US_Citizen71

          or maybe Merry Yogurt?

    • deleo77

      I agree that if the e-cat is shown not to work this time around, it will point to experimental and measurements errors that were made by all of the people who have tested the e-cat in previous tests, and it is not a scam. Even some of the most hardened skeptics will tell you that the only real way for it to be a scam is if Levi is in on it. He would have had to manipulate the different tests to fool the group from Sweden etc. I just think that is remote or not even possible at this point; especially after reading Levi’s quotes in Lewan’s book, which were some of the best one’s in there. Skeptics will vehemently disagree with this, but Levi said he is not in on any kind of a scam, and I choose to believe him.

      • Ophelia Rump

        How utterly frightening it must be, to be one of the scientists involved in this.
        They are going to reach a point very soon where they will either change the world, or be thrown beneath the wheels of it.

        The entire human race should be grateful to have such champions.

        • Alan DeAngelis

          Yeah, but they can’t be as frightened as the ones who’ve been slandering F&P for a quarter of a century.

      • LCD

        Yeah I’m with you there

    • bachcole

      I fail to understand why formal training in physics would cause one to not entertain the possibility of a scam. Wouldn’t that be a matter of psychology or sociology?

      • LCD

        Umm I did say “or not”

  • Omega Z

    So Ulrika Björkstén wants to look into Rossi’s drawers.

    That explains a lot. She has the Hots for Rossi & he rebuffed her.

  • Omega Z

    So Ulrika Björkstén wants to look into Rossi’s drawers.

    That explains a lot. She has the Hots for Rossi & he rebuffed her.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    They’re picking gnat crap out of pepper.

  • GreenWin

    Pomp, Ericsson, and Björkstén – refreshing to see the return of slap stick comedy. 🙂

  • Omega Z

    Actually, Sloppy Demo’s are not a hallmark of a scam.
    Scams tend to usually be Clean & Slick.

  • Paul

    “One thing she doesn’t mention, however…” It is enough to qualify the level of the person… and she talks about Rossi’s training in the field… perhaps she should take care of HER training in comprehension of science papers and in how the scientists work: she has a naive idea about this.

  • Hope4dbest

    I really fail to see how ONE program in ONE Swedish radio station can be seen as proof of a world-wide conspiracy against Rossi.

    • Omega Z

      It is not a conspiracy. It is known publicly stated/printed Facts.
      The information as such is of public record.
      Jed Rothwell has documented much of it on LENR-CANR.org

      The Self Appointed Guardians of truth do not believe in LENR & have said so publicly. They have stated in many iterations that it should “Not Even” be investigated and to be crushed.

      This radio program is just 1 of many orchestrated efforts to suppress & dissuade any research into this topic.

      Suppression is historically repeated through history by the Elite.
      Knowledge equates to Power. Power among the commons is considered a threat to the Elite. In the past, even reading & writing was forbidden among the masses. And teaching them could be punishable by death.

      Today’s battles are different, yet the same. Aimed to control the masses. By controlling the Technology & Who has access to it. Limiting competition that threaten the Elite. Spreading disinformation & deceit by whatever means available.

      And No, I’m not a Conspiracist. I’m more of a realist, an observer of life & my surroundings, And the evidence is all around us. Clearly Visible.
      Also, A little bit of a Dreamer. I Dream we can change this given time.

    • Olle Lindgren

      It is interesting to read (or listen) to the argument that Rossi’s failure with Petroldragon should indicate that he tries to scam people. I am not going to link anything since I believe in finding information for yourself, but try to google “waste to oil” and go through the results. Then look in to why and how he was procecuted. According to what laws and when they in turn were instigated. I should say he stepped on some very tender toes belongning to some very influential people and were simply outmanouvered. In light of this, if I were in his shoes, I would be very careful and distrustful with sharing something so sensitive as the e-cat. If the waste business could play rough, it’s nothing compared to the energy industry. When it comes to patents, he has the choise of openly publish the technology and still risk being denied the patent or just keep working until he has convinced enough people to get the financial resources and start producing usable products. Ideas, products and entire companies being bought and “shelved” for competative reasons happens every day. If Rossi really wants to see his invention come to market, he needs to be very carefully and trust very few people. In this lies the great danger because of his character. I don’t think it would be very difficult to grab the invention, push Rossi to the side, anounce that everything was a scam and bury all evidence to the contrary very deep should it be considered neccessary. It actually seems that this is what happened to F&P in 1989. Even if it rather was the scientific community that used all means to prevent positive results to be announced When it comes to a proven effect of anomolus energy output, I really don’t think there is much doubt. This has been proven over and over again since F&P (possibly earlier). But to go from there to a working product like the e-cat is a very long step. However, looking back, I realize that most of the experiments that verify some sort of LENR, cold fusion or whatever, has been brought to attention AFTER Rossi’s claims. It’s not like he picked up on a dubious article in som magazine and said; hey, look at this, give me money to build a machine that uses this! He actually built the whole idea on something others wouldn’t touch with gloves. If indeed he tries to scam people he really choose the wrong technology and did it in a way no con artist with any self respect or honor to the trade would ever think of doing.

      • psi2u2

        I concur.

    • Fortyniner

      It isn’t. It’s just one more piece of soft evidence to add to a significant number of similar articles, reports and omissions in the MSM, which when taken together indicate a high probability that there is in fact a co-ordinated media ‘blackout’ of the topic. This situation has been so consistent over the years that conspiracy becomes the most likely (but of course not the only) explanation.

      Cue Roger…

      • psi2u2

        This is partly a matter of how one defines “conspiracy,” which is a problematic concept. The Wikipedia entry on it is pretty interesting — much better than on controversial topics like LENR — and points out that until circa 1963 the term was used in the United States in a largely neutral way, but since then has become an epithet that is widely used by defenders of the status quo ante on various topics as a way to discredit opposition without reasoned analysis. Call someone a conspiracy theorist and he or she is discredited — at least that is the theory behind this kind of name calling.

        A conspiracy, however, does not have to be fully conscience or motivated entirely by negative intent. Etymologically, the word merely means to “breath together,” and implies some kind of agreement among one or more persons that is somehow not part of the historical record, i.e. is is concealed or invisible. Surely when we consider the term from this point of view it is obvious that our world is saturated with conspiracies of various kinds.

        For example — that this radio show was substantially the result of various outside pressures from interested parties who stand to lose financially, psychologically, or otherwise, if Rossi’s invention can be marketed and redefine the energy landscape of our world (which more and more evidence suggests it can and will), seems hardly beyond reasonable doubt.

        The larger “blackout” seems likely to be the result of many factors, including the brutal treatment of Pons and Fleischmann, which extended to media at that time open to their findings. It tainted the topic. I have watched the same dynamic in Shakespeare studies. It is not difficult to read between the lines that certain public results are clearly a consequence of angry phone calls by threatened insiders. I would guess that factor is multiplied many times in the instance of Rossi’s heresy.

  • Hope4Dbest

    I really fail to see how ONE program in ONE Swedish radio station can be seen as proof of a world-wide conspiracy against Rossi.

    • bachcole

      I agree. It is possible for people to disagree with the proposition that the E-Cat is for real. There will be many people who think that it is bogus. There doesn’t need to be a conspiracy. Many people are hung up on theory. Many people hate change. Many people worship authority figures, and may not even realize it. Some of these people are going to speak up; they don’t need a conspiracy.

    • Omega Z

      It is not a conspiracy. It is known publicly stated/printed Facts.
      The information as such is of public record.
      Jed Rothwell has documented much of it on LENR-CANR.org

      The Self Appointed Guardians of truth do not believe in LENR & have said so publicly. They have stated in many iterations that it should “Not Even” be investigated and to be crushed.

      This radio program is just 1 of many orchestrated efforts to suppress & dissuade any research into this topic.

      Suppression is historically repeated through history by the Elite.
      Knowledge equates to Power. Power among the commons is considered a threat to the Elite. In the past, even reading & writing was forbidden among the masses. And teaching them could be punishable by death.

      Today’s battles are different, yet the same. Aimed to control the masses. By controlling the Technology & Who has access to it. Limiting competition that threaten the Elite. Spreading disinformation & deceit by whatever means available.

      And No, I’m not a Conspiracist. I’m more of a realist, an observer of life & my surroundings, And the evidence is all around us. Clearly Visible.
      Also, A little bit of a Dreamer. I Dream we can change this given time.

    • Olle Lindgren

      It is interesting to read (or listen) to the argument that Rossi’s failure with Petroldragon should indicate that he tries to scam people. I am not going to link anything since I believe in finding information for yourself, but try to google “waste to oil” and go through the results. Then look in to why and how he was procecuted. According to what laws and when they in turn were instigated. I should say he stepped on some very tender toes belongning to some very influential people and were simply outmanouvered. In light of this, if I were in his shoes, I would be very careful and distrustful with sharing something so sensitive as the e-cat. If the waste business could play rough, it’s nothing compared to the energy industry. When it comes to patents, he has the choise of openly publish the technology and still risk being denied the patent or just keep working until he has convinced enough people to get the financial resources and start producing usable products. Ideas, products and entire companies being bought and “shelved” for competative reasons happens every day. If Rossi really wants to see his invention come to market, he needs to be very carefully and trust very few people. In this lies the great danger because of his character. I don’t think it would be very difficult to grab the invention, push Rossi to the side, anounce that everything was a scam and bury all evidence to the contrary very deep should it be considered neccessary. It actually seems that this is what happened to F&P in 1989. Even if it rather was the scientific community that used all means to prevent positive results to be announced When it comes to a proven effect of anomolus energy output, I really don’t think there is much doubt. This has been proven over and over again since F&P (possibly earlier). But to go from there to a working product like the e-cat is a very long step. However, looking back, I realize that most of the experiments that verify some sort of LENR, cold fusion or whatever, has been brought to attention AFTER Rossi’s claims. It’s not like he picked up on a dubious article in som magazine and said; hey, look at this, give me money to build a machine that uses this! He actually built the whole idea on something others wouldn’t touch with gloves. If indeed he tries to scam people he really choose the wrong technology and did it in a way no con artist with any self respect or honor to the trade would ever think of doing.

      • psi2u2

        I concur.

    • It isn’t. It’s just one more piece of soft evidence to add to a significant number of similar articles, reports and omissions in the MSM, which when taken together indicate a high probability that there is in fact a centrally enforced media ‘blackout’ of the topic. This situation has been so consistent over the years that conspiracy to suppress becomes the most likely (but of course not the only) explanation.

      Cue Roger…

      On edit – Omega Z and Ted-X summarise the why and how, respectively, in earlier posts.

      • psi2u2

        This is partly a matter of how one defines “conspiracy,” which is a problematic concept. The Wikipedia entry on it is pretty interesting — much better than on controversial topics like LENR — and points out that until circa 1963 the term was used in the United States in a largely neutral way, but since then has become an epithet that is widely used by defenders of the status quo ante on various topics as a way to discredit opposition without reasoned analysis. Call someone a conspiracy theorist and he or she is discredited — at least that is the theory behind this kind of name calling.

        A conspiracy, however, does not have to be fully conscience or motivated entirely by negative intent. Etymologically, the word merely means to “breath together,” and implies some kind of agreement among one or more persons that is somehow not part of the historical record, i.e. is is concealed or invisible. Surely when we consider the term from this point of view it is obvious that our world is saturated with conspiracies of various kinds.

        For example — that this radio show was substantially the result of various outside pressures from interested parties who stand to lose financially, psychologically, or otherwise, if Rossi’s invention can be marketed and redefine the energy landscape of our world (which more and more evidence suggests it can and will), seems hardly beyond reasonable doubt.

        The larger “blackout” seems likely to be the result of many factors, including the brutal treatment of Pons and Fleischmann, which extended to media at that time open to their findings. It tainted the topic. I have watched the same dynamic in Shakespeare studies. It is not difficult to read between the lines that certain public results are clearly a consequence of angry phone calls by threatened insiders. I would guess that factor is multiplied many times in the instance of Rossi’s heresy.

  • simon

    Oh when is that next independent report coming?

  • psi2u2

    My very brief comment on the NY Teknik site, with a link back to this discussion, has apparently been censored.

    • bachcole

      So what was your comment and do you speak Swedish as a first language? If not, it is possible that Google Translate did not satisfy the editors.

      • English translates easily to Swedish and a Google translation of a brief comment is likely to be adequate. Censorship for reasons other than poor grammar seems rather more likely.

      • psi2u2

        It was in English and it said that her arguments are bogus (or words to that effect, with a link back to this discussion). It was very brief and I did not think it was any more polemical than comments of Alain and others already posted.

  • Broncobet

    She never said it was fake,she said taken together there’s a strong possibility that Rossi and the E Cat are not trustworthy.Also I will add that an indication of fraud is 1) “to good to be true”.2)not getting a patent 3) it’s nickel to copper transmutation then no it’s unknown. But that doesn’t mean that it can’t work.There are indications that it does work,but I don’t have to convince you all of those.So if it’s all a scam will you be a little annoyed at Rossi? If it is a trick then my hat is off to him especially if he get’s to stay out of prison.He is very likable.It really makes a difference,if it does work, what quality of heat is produced ie the temperature,Rossi showed a picture of an e cat glowing red hot if that picture is not faked then even if it only works half the time it will be very valueable and if it works most of the time but at 90 deg F it’s not so valueable. I am interested in the upcoming report.

    • Omega Z

      I would add that If it works at all, It is of great importance.
      Simply because It’s not supposed to be possible.
      At least according to the Self Appointed Guardians of truth.

  • bitplayer

    Ulrika’s having second thoughts…

    • Omega Z

      Bicycle
      I recently learned that no theory can explain the Bicycle. None of them fit. So I guess we need to ban them from the face of the earth until someone figures it out. Until then, They are considered an Impossible Invention…

      • Buck

        Just like nature’s Bumble Bee

        • Ophelia Rump

          I think someone from MIT worked out the Bumble Bee a few years ago.
          Wait, MIT, their science is good but their ethics are questionable.

          • Buck

            Ophelia,

            are you saying they fudged the data so that Nature is now in compliance with MIT science?

          • Ophelia Rump

            I suspect they altered nature to fit their theory.
            They are very capable.

          • psi2u2

            Ophelia, there has been some exciting LENR work done at MIT recently. No doubt your generalizations are largely true of the institution as it behaved in 1989, but there are some really smart people there who are bucking the institutional trend. For example, this recent conference: http://coldfusionnow.org/2014-cflanr-colloquium-at-mit-audio-files/

    • Ophelia Rump

      Ahh lovely Hudiksvall, so beautiful in the spring, as you walk your herd to pasture.

    • psi2u2

      If she attends to the results of the third party test and admits — assuming the results are as impressive as those of the previous test, but with greater detail (and COP 18!!!??) — an error in her way of thinking, then I think she is still entitled to be considered a person whose opinion is worth considering. If not, then her reputation is done for.

  • GreenWin

    Swedish Public Radio, aside from subscribing to authorship best described as “Yellow Journalism” – paints an accurate picture of academia’s greatest illness: “Ivory Tower Condescension.” This is a deeply defensive belief that only those indoctrinated and matriculated in mainstream academia – are worthy. “Worthy” of the corporate aristocracy that rules and funds academia. Ms. Björkstén indicts herself and her cabal of pathoskeps in claiming Dr. Rossi “unqualified” to make a discovery of LENR magnitude. Really? One needs a hundred thousand dollar education at approved institutes of learning to exercise scientific curiosity? Entrepreneurial tenacity? Courage?

    Ms Björkstén confirms a deep-rooted prejudice roiling inside the academic community. They have fought long and hard to foster their knowledge monopolies. The cost of entry via four year college degree is $100-200k. And they are not about to concede the scientific discovery of a century to a “nobody” with marginal academic training.

    Ms Björkstén needs to go back to school and review a little history. The Arts and Sciences have always been lead by heretics. Those who break the rules, create new perspectives. But Ms Björkstén et al, want us to forget the common bonds shared by humanity’s greatest leaders.

    For example, what do the following people share in common?

    Dr. Martin Luther King (Nobel), Galileo Galilei, Aung San Suu Kyi (Nobel), Henry David Thoreau, Andrei Sakharov (Nobel), Nelson Mandella (Nobel), Liu Xiaobo (Nobel), Mohandis Gandhi, Miguel de Cervantes, Bill Gates, William S. Burroughs, Lech Walesa (Nobel), Anna Freud, Jesus of
    Nazareth, Vaclav Havel (refused Nobel), Ken Kesey, St. Thomas More, Oscar Wilde, Sir Francis Bacon, Jean Genet, Akbar Ganji (Nobel), Sir Paul McCartney, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Nobel), Voltaire, Benigno Aquino, Frank Sinatra, Bishop Desmond Tutu (Nobel), Harpo & Chico Marx, Dr.
    Santiago Ramon (Nobel), Dr. Richard Feynman (Nobel), Sir Walter Raleigh…

    What in common?? They have all served time in prison. Big deal. Had Dr. Rossi not been framed by the Italian waste management Mafia – he would be suspicious. While Ms. Björkstén is continuing her education she might want to recall these few world class “heretics” :

    Sir Isaac Newton, anti-trinitarian, closet alchemist
    Galilleo Galilei, “vehemently suspected of heresy”
    Ignaz Semmelweis, hygene heretic
    Charles Darwin, Church of England evolution heretic
    Alfred Wegener, geological heretic
    Giordano Bruno, inhabited universe, Copernican heretic
    Dr. Barry Marshall, ulcer bacteria heretic (Nobel)
    Dr. Daniel Shechtman, quasicrystal heretic (Nobel)
    Nicholas Copernicus, heliocentric heretic

    Condescension of any order is juvenile. Condescension in defense of solipsistic prejudice, is a symptom of a deadly disease called… PRIDE.

    • Ophelia Rump

      You give her far too much credit.
      She is just modeled after a mythological creature from her culture, A bridge troll.

      • psi2u2

        Unfortunately I tend to agree with Ophelia on this question. However, that is not a good enough reason not to pass on such well articulated analysis of why she is wrong. Perhaps she is redeemable after all, or perhaps the communication, when sent to her, will find other, less intractable readers.

    • just a detail, cold fusion is a chemistry problem practically.
      Physicist, even condensed matter physicis are not the best except for the theory.

      For F&P style of experiment the best profession is chemist, electrochemist especially.
      For industrial heat production with LENR, best are engineer in industrial chemistry, especially in petrochemistry, or to a lesser degree metallurgy.

      In a way Rossi have the perfect experience, petrochemistry.

    • psi2u2

      “paints an accurate picture of academia’s greatest illness: “Ivory Tower Condescension.” This is a deeply defensive belief that only those indoctrinated and matriculated in mainstream academia – are worthy.”

      Exactly. very well put. I especially love the phrase, “Ivory Tower Condescension.”

  • GreenWin

    Swedish Public Radio, aside from subscribing to authorship best described as “Yellow Journalism” – paints an accurate picture of academia’s greatest illness: “Ivory Tower Condescension.” This is a deeply defensive belief that only those indoctrinated and matriculated in mainstream academia – are worthy. “Worthy” of the corporate aristocracy that rules and funds academia. Ms. Björkstén indicts herself and her cabal of pathoskeps in claiming Dr. Rossi “unqualified” to make a discovery of LENR magnitude. Really? One needs a hundred thousand dollar education at approved institutes of learning to exercise scientific curiosity? Entrepreneurial tenacity? Courage?

    Ms Björkstén confirms a deep-rooted prejudice roiling inside the academic community. They have fought long and hard to foster their knowledge monopolies. The cost of entry via four year college degree is $100-200k. And they are not about to concede the scientific discovery of a century to a “nobody” with marginal academic training.

    Ms Björkstén needs to go back to school and review a little history. The Arts and Sciences have always been lead by heretics. Those who break the rules, create new perspectives. But Ms Björkstén et al, want us to forget the common bonds shared by humanity’s greatest leaders.

    For example, what do the following people share in common?

    Dr. Martin Luther King (Nobel), Galileo Galilei, Aung San Suu Kyi (Nobel), Henry David Thoreau, Andrei Sakharov (Nobel), Nelson Mandella (Nobel), Liu Xiaobo (Nobel), Mohandis Gandhi, Miguel de Cervantes, Bill Gates, William S. Burroughs, Lech Walesa (Nobel), Anna Freud, Jesus of
    Nazareth, Vaclav Havel (refused Nobel), Ken Kesey, St. Thomas More, Oscar Wilde, Sir Francis Bacon, Jean Genet, Akbar Ganji (Nobel), Sir Paul McCartney, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (Nobel), Voltaire, Benigno Aquino, Frank Sinatra, Bishop Desmond Tutu (Nobel), Harpo & Chico Marx, Dr.
    Santiago Ramon (Nobel), Dr. Richard Feynman (Nobel), Sir Walter Raleigh…

    What in common?? They have all served time in prison. Big deal. Had Dr. Rossi not been framed by the Italian waste management Mafia – he would be suspicious. While Ms. Björkstén is continuing her education she might want to recall these few world class “heretics” :

    Sir Isaac Newton, anti-trinitarian, closet alchemist
    Galilleo Galilei, “vehemently suspected of heresy”
    Ignaz Semmelweis, hygene heretic
    Charles Darwin, Church of England evolution heretic
    Alfred Wegener, geological heretic
    Giordano Bruno, inhabited universe, Copernican heretic
    Dr. Barry Marshall, ulcer bacteria heretic (Nobel)
    Dr. Daniel Shechtman, quasicrystal heretic (Nobel)
    Nicholas Copernicus, heliocentric heretic

    Condescension of any order is juvenile. Condescension in defense of solipsistic prejudice, is a symptom of a deadly disease called… PRIDE.

    • Ophelia Rump

      You give her far too much credit.
      She is just modeled after a mythological creature from her culture, A bridge troll.

      • psi2u2

        Unfortunately I tend to agree with Ophelia on this question. However, that is not a good enough reason not to pass on such well articulated analysis of why she is wrong. Perhaps she is redeemable after all, or perhaps the communication, when sent to her, will find other, less intractable readers.

    • bachcole

      Are you going to send that to her; otherwise you are just entertaining the troops.

      • GreenWin

        Now you mention it, I will.

        • bachcole

          I thought that it was very well written and comprehensive, so I thought that you should send it to her. I really think that she is redeemable (before it is too late); I did not detect any maliciousness in her, although I could be wrong.

        • psi2u2

          Good. Thanks for a brilliant synopsis.

    • just a detail, cold fusion is a chemistry problem practically.
      Physicist, even condensed matter physicis are not the best except for the theory.

      For F&P style of experiment the best profession is chemist, electrochemist especially.
      For industrial heat production with LENR, best are engineer in industrial chemistry, especially in petrochemistry, or to a lesser degree metallurgy.

      In a way Rossi have the perfect experience, petrochemistry.

    • psi2u2

      “paints an accurate picture of academia’s greatest illness: “Ivory Tower Condescension.” This is a deeply defensive belief that only those indoctrinated and matriculated in mainstream academia – are worthy.”

      Exactly. very well put. I especially love the phrase, “Ivory Tower Condescension.”

  • GreenWin

    Well put LL.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “Although Faraday received little formal education, he was one of the most influential scientists in history.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

  • Alan DeAngelis

    “Although Faraday received little formal education, he was one of the most influential scientists in history.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

  • Gerrit

    It appears to me that she is mainly upset that scientists are seriously investigating the ecat. I am reminded of Julian Schwinger’s quote “The pressure for conformity is enormous”.

    She writes that tax money should not be wasted on things like this, but she should have known that this evaluation, like the last one, is probably sponsored by Elforsk, which is not tax money.

    She appeals to the “scientific responsibility” of the researchers to shun the ecat, because she sees four clear warning flags. All four flags are extremely weak points, as chief science editor for Sveriges Radio she should have been aware of that.

    She mentions that they have spoken to a “wide range of sources in Italy judges, lawyers, technical experts and people affected by Rossi’s previous activities”. They obviously haven’t spoken to anyone knowledgeable in the field of LENR.

    The radio programme is just a badly researched biased opinion piece to forward a preset point of view. I wonder who has coerced her to publish it.

  • Gerrit

    It appears to me that she is mainly upset that scientists are seriously investigating the ecat. I am reminded of Julian Schwinger’s quote “The pressure for conformity is enormous”.

    She writes that tax money should not be wasted on things like this, but she should have known that this evaluation, like the last one, is probably sponsored by Elforsk, which is not tax money.

    She appeals to the “scientific responsibility” of the researchers to shun the ecat, because she sees four clear warning flags. All four flags are extremely weak points, as chief science editor for Sveriges Radio she should have been aware of that.

    She mentions that they have spoken to a “wide range of sources in Italy judges, lawyers, technical experts and people affected by Rossi’s previous activities”. They obviously haven’t spoken to anyone knowledgeable in the field of LENR.

    The radio programme is just a badly researched biased opinion piece to forward a preset point of view. I wonder who has coerced her to publish it.

    • George N

      You would think science and conformity would not go together, but it’s the rule and not the exception. I ponder that scientists are jealous of engineers because engineers were not at the top of their class (e.g. not the best memorizers) but during the Internet revolution, engineers have demonstrated incredible creativity that is relevant to social needs.

  • Omega Z

    There were 5 theories that were discussed including the balancing.
    However they all fall apart under scrutiny/analysis.

    What I see is similar to LENR. Many theories, all work to a degree, but none explain the full picture. Hopefully, Both will be resolved in time.
    As to the Bicycle, It may seem silly to be concerned with, But sometimes the silly can turn out to be of profound importance.
    Ultimately tho, I only bring it up because-some believe Theory trumps Data & if you don’t have a working theory, you shouldn’t even bother trying.

    • humblemechanic

      About 20 or 25 years ago I read a piece in New Scientist titled (I think it was) Bikuklos”. It was a “take” on the mentality of the “eminences” of some
      Royal Society or other trying to evaluate the brainchild of a lone inventor;,
      the first bike with pedals, the high-wheeler. It was hilarious in a serious way.
      I simply have not the time to look at LENR itself, being very slow and very
      thorough; its the incongruity and inconsistencies of Rossi-Talk that gets up my nose. In my humblemechanic’s opinion it would be more fruitful to ease
      off on the science and concentrate on “what it does, not how it does it” and
      apply a fairly relentless energy audit to Rossi’s HotCat etc.
      The science should come into play only after adequate COP was established; there were huge industries based on electricity even a 100
      yeas ago, well before the theories were sorted out.

      • Omega Z

        I agree, If it works, it works, The theory can catch up later & then we can use it to improve the product. I think some of whats taking place now is to help get it off the ground at a faster pace then would happen otherwise.
        In a financial it’s probably necessary.

        • Omega Z

          Financial it’s probably necessary.

  • Omega Z

    I would add that If it works at all, It is of great importance.
    Simply because It’s not supposed to be possible.
    At least according to the Self Appointed Guardians of truth.

  • GreenWin

    Now you mention it, I will.

    • bachcole

      I thought that it was very well written and comprehensive, so I thought that you should send it to her. I really think that she is redeemable (before it is too late); I did not detect any maliciousness in her, although I could be wrong.

    • psi2u2

      Good. Thanks for a brilliant synopsis.

  • psi2u2

    It was in English and it said that her arguments are bogus (or words to that effect, with a link back to this discussion). It was very brief and I did not think it was any more polemical than comments of Alain and others already posted.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I’m so glad that Ulrika Björkstén understands that bringing up the past is relevant. So, being the responsible journalist that she is, I’m sure she’ll leave no stone unturned. I look forward to her looking into and reporting on what the late Eugene Mallove (another responsible journalist) witnessed in July of 1989. (at the 4:20 mark)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y98YwJ2GEE

  • Alan DeAngelis

    I’m so glad that Ulrika Björkstén understands that bringing up the past is relevant. So, being the responsible journalist that she is, I’m sure she’ll leave no stone unturned. I look forward to her looking into and reporting on what the late Eugene Mallove (another responsible journalist) witnessed in July of 1989. (at the 4:20 mark)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y98YwJ2GEE

  • David Dow

    Isn’t it odd that all four of her “clues” have zero basis in the actual analysis of the phenomenon. They all have to do with character assassination (lack of experience, reverting to the age old it can’t work therefore it doesn’t, and he’s a criminal therefore it can’t work and last but not least, trying to maintain some sense of secrecy); nothing about the actual effect at all.

  • LCD

    Umm I did say “or not”