Rossi Prepares for 1MW Plant Visits

While we wait for the all-important 3rd party report to be published, there’s apparently a parallel track taking place which should help provide important information about the E-Cat to the world. I’m referring to the preparation by Andrea Rossi and Industrial heat for making a 1 MW plant available for observation and inspection by ‘allowed persons’. There has been a bit of discussion about this on the Journal of Nuclear Physics recently and Rossi has provided a little information about what to expect.

This plant will be a working plant, not a demonstration model. Rossi has said that it is an industrial 1 MW plant housed in the factory of a customer, that it is in continuous operation, and that it is apparently doing useful work for profit. Rossi says that he is not allowed to provide any information beyond that, but that details about the plant will be released and made available for visitors.

As far as when this plant will be able to be visited, Rossi has said:

“We will communicate the date of the opening of the visits in due time: I want not to give now a date, because this topic is very delicate, and if I give a date I must be sure of it. But a date will be given, for sure. I am working now only focused on this !!!”

I will say that I have been given assurances in response to a request that I will be on the list of invitees, and hopefully will be an early visitor. To my mind, this development will be as important as the publication of the 3rd party report. While the observation of a plant in action does not provide the same type of information that can be gathered by testing an E-Cat in a controlled environment over time, being able to see the plant in operation in an industrial setting is very important.

The fact that the plant is being used by a customer to do actual work is important, too. I’m hoping that the customer will be able to share data regarding energy usage, costs, savings, performance, etc. That would be very significant information for the public and press — and highly useful for Industrial Heat as they begin to market the E-Cat.

So far there is no information about the timing of this event, or location. My guess is that it will be somewhere close to IH Headquarters — perhaps in the North Carolina Research Triangle area, but I suppose the customer could be anywhere.

  • jousterusa

    Frank, no offense, but 3rd is a numerical indicator of succession; instead, we are dealing with the report of a “third party,” which is an independent event unrelated to the numerical order of things. Feel free to delete this.

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks Joe. Yes, you are right.

  • martin

    BlackLight will host a public demonstration of its transformational
    SunCell power technology June 25th at 11:00 AM. Those interested in
    attending can contact BlackLight to pre-register for this limited
    availability event at demonstrationday@blacklightpower.com. Applicants will receive a response confirming receipt of your email and further details about the event.

    • Daniel Maris

      Here we go again…sparks, fizz bangs and pops!

      • Fortyniner

        But t says on their website that “The BlackLight Power, Inc. SunCell™ produces millions of watts of power in a volume that is one ten thousandths of a liter corresponding to a power density of over an astonishing 100 billion watts per liter.” How could anyone not be impressed with that…

        • Doktor Bob

          Yes, they do have an image problem.
          But….. what is your opinion if you ignore that fact and look at the bigger picture? (serious question because I have only focused on companies who do not refute the name of cold fusion)

          • Fortyniner

            Since you invite them, my thoughts on the bigger picture are:

            Mills is undoubtedly a brilliant theoretician, and his ideas will slowly find their way into mainstream physics and may yet lead to a practical energy device. However the latter will not necessarily be developed by BLP, unless the structure of the company changes significantly. Mills appears to operate BLP in an extremely hierarchical fashion with just himself at the apex, so the company unfortunately reflects his weaknesses as well as his strengths.

            The ‘image problem’ arises of course from the gap between the claims made for the currently non-existent ‘SunCell’ device (part of which I quoted from their website), and the actual current state of development as indicated by the videos. To reduce the cynicism Mills’ claims sometimes give rise to, the gap needs to close – either by reducing the hype or by increasing the quality of the experiments.

            IMHO, Mills’ talents don’t appear to include engineering and he will not make much real progress until he teams up with one or more talented individuals who are capable and imaginative in this area. However I’m not sure that his personality would ever permit other named individuals to take any part in (or credit for) any major steps forward in developing a practical hydrino reactor.

          • Omega Z

            Frank-

            There was a Poster on JONP, Don’t recall his name.
            He has Followed on JONP for a very long time. He has had many contacts with Rossi both on JONP & thru Leonardo.

            I wonder if he could possibly be the customer. He was very interested in the heat for processing his products. “GREEN” products specifically which fits with Cherokee projects.

          • Fortyniner

            Doktor Bob – I wrote a long and detailed reply to the effect that despite his obvious brilliance and the probable merits of hydrino theory, that IMO Mills’ personality, his weakness in engineering and the gap between hype and reality would probably means that we will never see a practical energy device from BLP. Unfortunately Disqus ate it and I don’t have the time or inclination to do it again. No loss, I suspect.

        • Omega Z

          Peter
          We were looking for energy data.
          The Demo is about a feeding process or the funnel to deliver the pellets. Still not real impressed, but the demo makes more sense.

          It also made me think about the Hot Fusion boys. How did they intend to feed their pellets to the target zone. Or had they even thought that far ahead.

          • Fortyniner

            Several comments seem to have gone missing here. I lost a long one when posting, but a couple that were here (including one of mine) seem to have been deleted – not sure why.

            Omega – As you infer, this is the weakness of any similar mechanical setup, whether hydrino reaction or hot fusion. If the energies involved are large (as they have to be) then no mechanical feeder could survive exposure to the energy release or to the plasmas and hot gases accompanying it. The same thing applies to any idea of harvesting energy from a hydrino reaction using photovoltaics – these too would be quickly destroyed in a real reactor.

            As I’ve suggested before, IMHO if Mills is to get his reactor to work, he must find some way to ‘detonate’ liquid water injected into a semi-closed chamber, and harvest energy from the ‘exhaust’ using MHD or ‘old fashioned’ heat exchange. I believe he would be best served by developing Stanley Meyer’s published designs for a ‘water fuel cell’, which possibly relied on the same type of exothermic reaction that Mills is trying to produce.

          • Fortyniner

            Replied – disappeared!

  • Guest

    BlackLight will host a public demonstration of its transformational
    SunCell power technology June 25th at 11:00 AM. Those interested in
    attending can contact BlackLight to pre-register for this limited
    availability event at demonstrationday@blacklightpower.com. Applicants will receive a response confirming receipt of your email and further details about the event.

  • malkom700

    In the agreements with investors IH may commit to certain things and that investors reduce their risks. It is even more important than the third party independent testing.

  • Gerrit

    as many have said, in the end, it can only be a real plant in continuous operation that will shut down the critics.

    The customer is probably already prepared to take the plant into operation.

    Let me start some wild guessing: Some shipment, and installation work has to be done still. The plant will be in operation earliest mid of September. Open for selected visitors in November.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I gathered from what was said, that the plant may already be in operation. All statements were in the present tense, except those regarding visits which will be in the future.

      Maybe Frank can clarify that. Congratulations Frank, I envy you your visit, you have earned it.

      • It seems likely that no announcement of any ‘open days’ will be made until the pilot plant has been operational for many months, and plenty of actual and projected cost savings are available to fill the glossy brochures, press handouts and online information that will make their appearance at this time.

        Rossi’s relatively unguarded comments indicate to me that this event may be imminent (weeks, not months) and I suspect will follow closely on the publication of the results of the second tests (despite some denials that there will be any connection).

        • Gerrit

          If that is really the case and the 1MW plant is already up and running in continuous productive mode when the third party report will be released, that would be a huge event.

          One or two brave mainstream news outlets might even cover the story.

          • A working cold fusion reactor would be a wonder. Reading or hearing anything about it in the MSM would be a miracle.

      • pedro

        I guess it is a new plant not yet installed… This is what AR said about it in his response to Frank…
        Andrea Rossi June 10th, 2014 at 8:51 PM
        Frank: It is not a plant for display. It is a plant that will be installed in the factory of a Customer to work and make profit from its work. It is not a test, as made so far. I cannot give more specific information now, I am not allowed to.
        Warm Regards, A.R.

        Note the first line where it reads: “a plant THAT WILL BE INSTALLED”. Future tense.

        • Frank Acland

          Good point, Pedro.

          This is probably why Rossi has said he is working all the time on this plant right now — getting it ready for installation.

  • Owen Geiger

    Congratulations, Frank. This development is very exciting. You must be ecstatic.

    Let’s hope they provide the details you mention. And lets hope the customer is publicly supportive. Ideally it’s a well known company.

    • ecatworld

      Hi Owen — thanks; I would say more hopeful than ecstatic. So many unknowns at this point to get too excited.

  • Owen Geiger

    Congratulations, Frank. This development is very exciting. You must be ecstatic.

    Let’s hope they provide the details you mention. And lets hope the customer is publicly supportive. Ideally it’s a well known company.

    • Frank Acland

      Hi Owen — thanks; I would say more hopeful than ecstatic. So many unknowns at this point to get too excited.

  • Wonderboy

    this really fits with his comments that the truth is in the market (or something like.. please correct me with the exact phrase he used”

    • Fortyniner

      in mercato veritas – variously translated as ‘in the market there is truth’ or ‘the truth of the market’.

      • it cames from in vino veritas, that in good wine zone mean that you recognize the real personality of people when they are a little drunk… whether they are kind, violent… because in other context they control their image.

        in Mercatu Veritas is interpreted by me as “you will admit the reality of cold fusion when it is on the market, and not in tamed context like scientific papers or 3rd party test”

  • Wonderboy

    this really fits with his comments that the truth is in the market (or something like.. please correct me with the exact phrase he used”

    • in mercato veritas – variously translated as ‘in the market there is truth’ or ‘the truth of the market’.

      • it cames from in vino veritas, that in good wine zone mean that you recognize the real personality of people when they are a little drunk… whether they are kind, violent… because in other context they control their image.

        in Mercatu Veritas is interpreted by me as “you will admit the reality of cold fusion when it is on the market, and not in tamed context like scientific papers or 3rd party test”

  • Goax

    Something is unclear with the 1MW plant. What happened to the one shipped in US:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/03/e-cat-shipping-pictures-posted-on-the-jonp/
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/16/shipping-data-found-for-e-cat-plant/

    Is it the one Rossi is talking about? Thus, we may be nicely surprised that visits could start very early together with months of energy data already available…

    But if it is another one, … disappointing not to know what happened to the first one.

    • ecatworld

      My best guess is yes, this is the plant.

      • blanco69

        I’ve often wondered why a user would prefer a container full of old cats to a couple of hot cats. The 1 MW is only heat after all so why take up the extra space. I’m sure we could all guess at a hundred reasons for this….but I wonder what the real reason is.

        • Fortyniner

          Why build a ‘new’ 1MW plant when you could just rebuild the old one, re-using the container, pipework and valves, sensors, electrical supplies etc. Remember that this was probably done at quite an early stage in ‘hot cat’ development, so no finalised commercial design of reactor housing would have been available. Additionally, accessibility (as in the original design) would have been desirable in such a prototype.

          It would probably have been a relatively simple job to remove the 50 old e-cat modules and replace them with (50 x 2kW?) new 2-stage units matched for size, flanged connections and electrical inputs with the modules they replace.

          The free space inside the ISO container would allow for all the sensors and instrumentation that would be needed for a long-term trial by a client.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Because higher temperature steam requires high pressure plumbing.
            You might go from house type plumbing with copper tubing to one inch thick walled steel pipes.

          • Fortyniner

            You’re assuming that the demo unit will be an electricity power plant requiring HP steam, while I’m guessing it will be a simple boiler unit earning its keep as an industrial heat source by producing LP steam or hot water.

    • Gerrit

      The container looks like the one which used to be equiped with “old-cat”, ie the water filled e-cats. Similar to the one that was customer tested in November 2011.

      I always assumed that this “old cat” is now replaced with hot cat “mouse-cat” reactors.
      Maybe someone can clarify that with Rossi.

    • Daniel Maris

      Yes, it could be the one, especially since he is talking about a 1MW plant which was always the measure with the old E Cat (although in reality it never reached that capacity).

  • Goax

    Something is unclear with the 1MW plant. What happened to the one shipped in US:

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/03/e-cat-shipping-pictures-posted-on-the-jonp/
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/16/shipping-data-found-for-e-cat-plant/

    Is it the one Rossi is talking about? Thus, we may be nicely surprised that visits could start very early together with months of energy data already available…

    But if it is another one, … disappointing not to know what happened to the first one.

    • Frank Acland

      My best guess is yes, this is the plant, but Rossi won’t confirm this.

      • blanco69

        I’ve often wondered why a user would prefer a container full of old cats to a couple of hot cats. The 1 MW is only heat after all so why take up the extra space. I’m sure we could all guess at a hundred reasons for this….but I wonder what the real reason is.

        • But why build a ‘new’ 1MW plant when you could just rebuild the old one, re-using the container, pipework and valves, sensors, electrical supplies etc. Remember that this was probably done at quite an early stage in ‘hot cat’ development, so no finalised commercial design of reactor housing would have been available. Additionally, accessibility (as in the original container design) would have been desirable in such a prototype.

          It would probably have been a relatively simple job to remove the 50 old e-cat modules and replace the 1st generation e-cats with (50 x 2kW?) new 2-stage units matched for size, flanged connections and electrical inputs with the modules they replace.

          The free space inside the ISO container would allow for all the sensors and instrumentation that would be needed for a long-term trial by a client.

          On edit: Unless of course the new 1MW unit uses ‘gas cats’ – in which case a totally new design would be needed.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Because higher temperature steam requires high pressure plumbing.
            You might go from house type plumbing with copper tubing to one inch thick walled steel pipes.

          • You’re assuming that the demo unit will be an electricity power plant requiring HP steam, while I’m guessing it will be a simple water boiler earning its keep producing LP steam or hot water in an industrial environment.

    • Gerrit

      The container looks like the one which used to be equiped with “old-cat”, ie the water filled e-cats. Similar to the one that was customer tested in November 2011.

      I always assumed that this “old cat” is now replaced with hot cat “mouse-cat” reactors.
      Maybe someone can clarify that with Rossi.

  • Barry8

    Yahoo Frank! Bring spare batteries to your video camera. This would be better than a 3rd party report.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, this public event, if it happens, will be more important than the test report.

      It will be undeniable for sane people.

  • Yahoo Frank! Bring spare batteries to your video camera. This would be better than a 3rd party report.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, this public event, if it happens, will be more important than the test report.

      It will be undeniable for sane people.

      • bachcole

        Therefore it be denied by skeptopaths. I guarantee it.

        • Yup – but who will pay any attention to them when the race is on to get a part of the action? They’ll be trampled underfoot.

          • Omega Z

            We can Hope. Track shoes anyone??

  • Gerard McEk

    I look forward to your visit report of it, Frank!

    It would be a good idea that the ‘customer’ would present the energy input/output data (real time) on-line, that would be good PR for IH! The ‘customer’ can officially testify that the energies are confirmed every so many days.

  • Gerard McEk

    I look forward to your visit report of it, Frank!

    It would be a good idea that the ‘customer’ would present the energy input/output data (real time) on-line, that would be good PR for IH! The ‘customer’ can officially testify that the energies are confirmed every so many days.

  • Ronzonni

    Well… with due respect, exhibiting a megawatt plant to the press and the public seems overdue and Rossi has never said clearly why the delay. Maybe it’s time to ask him that nicely.

    Why does it take so long and what would be the down side of publicly showing a plant in a secure customer location, for example on a military base or inside a large factory? Sure, there would be a lot of interest and activity but if a hydrogen bomb plant, a dangerous oil refinery, a weapons factory or a huge GM factory can be protected, couldn’t this be guarded as well? And aren’t interest and sales what Rossi wants?

    I am also having trouble with understanding why the operating parameters which Admin asked Rossi about on JONP should be secret and involve NDA’s. The plant is supposedly for sale commercially and has been since November 2011. I would have hoped that by now, one could be shown in public somewhere and its energy input and output would have been made public directly from the customer! Also the reliability, up vs down time, and operating costs. Nobody would buy it without knowing those.

    If Admin is willing, perhaps he could ask Rossi the above questions, why information is under NDA and when they will release it and can there be as specific a response as possible. Not meaning to sound impatient but it has been a long time.

    Oh, sorry, one more thing. If Dr. Rossi says he is not allowed to answer the above questions or schedule a public showing, then who is? Who should the admin and the rest of the press talk to at this point to get specific information?

    Thank you.

    • Andrew

      Why does it take so long? I thought 3 years is pretty quick from rough prototype to a working plant at a customers location. From what I read I think that the plant was available for viewing for potential customers, It’s not for media hype. If he has what he has he will not need any help from mass media because the money it will save will be enough to drive the big boys to buy to increase profit or fall behind their competitors that have bought. My speculation in regards to the NDA is that this plant is the one that they were offer it for free awhile back and the terms are that they get the plant for free if they pay a small fee for energy consumed and Rossi/IH can use it as a working demo to potential future clients. Of course these type of deals are usually locked down with NDAs .

    • deleo77

      From a larger view the question could be asked as to why Rossi is Industrial Heat’s main form of communication to outsiders at this point? I understand that the company is operating in semi-stealth mode, but are they planning to launch a website with a place to access press releases and product info? Will they have a marketing/corporate communications contact?

      It is interesting to me that the powers that be at IH are leaving it to Rossi, their chief scientist, to disclose all of these things. Obviously for us it is better than nothing, but most companies with IH’s type of funding have all of the above. I am sure they regularly read his posts as well, and it seems like they are comfortable handling it this way for the time being, but hopefully they are working on putting a face to their company at some point.

      • Andrew

        Why not leave it to Rossi? For now? Until working plants/rock sold 3rd party report many are not going to take Rossi seriously. Giving IH a jump start in the market. Rossi has always had a fan base and keeping these people slightly informed isn’t going to hurt anything.

        • ecatworld

          Industrial Heat seem to have a deliberate policy of non-communication for the moment. They don’t even have a web site, although they have reserved the domain http://industrialheat.co which for the time being redirects to their only official communication to date — the press release announcing their acquisition of the E-Cat.

          I do expect things to change; probably once the 3rd party report has been published — so long as it is a positive one.

          • deleo77

            I totally understand that for the time being. And perhaps there is a little bit of strategy in this, as mentioned above. With Rossi as the voice, skeptics can continue on with confidence in their anti-Rossi stance.

            It will be interesting to see how far IH can go this year. The 3rd party test will arrive first, then perhaps some mainstream press out of that (if the test is positive), the viewing of the first commercial installation (perhaps by early Fall), a website launch, an announcement of a major new round of funding for manufacturing and commercialization efforts, and a partnership announcement with a Fortune 500 company for some joint development efforts. If all of that happens for IH in 2014 I will be impressed.

          • I know one such possibility, but for seedling researchs.
            To be published soon I hope… but paperwork is long.

          • Daniel Maris

            I guess that would be a dream scenario. No doubt the ride will be bumpier than that!

          • Fortyniner

            Yup – but who will pay any attention to them when the race is on to get a part of the action? They’ll be trampled underfoot.

          • Omega Z

            We can Hope. Track shoes anyone??

          • Daniel Maris

            A positive interpretation of all this is that Rossi and IH have a really good relationship i.e. Rossi is focussed on the science and IH (led by Darden) is focussed on marketing, on creating a network of contacts to implement LENR across the globe, beginning with China – where the need is greatest.

            I can think of negative interpretations but I prefer to be a positive person! 🙂

          • Omega Z

            We, or at least an ECW member sort of stumbled on the China connection. Due mostly to it’s publication in China I believe.

            We have no Idea who they are connected with here in the U.S.
            What were they doing in that year prior to the China deal???

          • Omega Z

            In the meantime, This leaves Rossi as the Target leaving I.H. to work in quiet behind the scenes. Had it not been for a slip, They wouldn’t be known at all.

        • mcloki

          Just make sure you bring a bag of tea and prepare a boiling cup of it. Wasn’t that one of the big detractors and haters points you could easily dismiss. Eagerly awaiting that video.

          • Omega Z

            2 tea bags. Proof would be the 2nd cup. 🙂

      • Broncobet

        It would reduce their liability doing it this way,of course if it’s been seven years and people don’t think that that’s too long I guess another seven years wouldn’t upset them too much.I am interested in this third party report and this customer demo but think it will be much later than published.

    • mcloki

      Why are thing under NDA? Are you serious? So on the Coke tour you’d ask for the recipe for Coke. Or the KFC tour you’d ask why the NDA and by the way, “what are the 11 herbs and spices?” Come on. really. REALLY!

    • bitplayer

      All good questions. Maybe we should ask for his underwear size, too.

      Maybe it would be useful to list all the possible reasons why Rossi’s behavior makes sense, like, maybe Rossi is not consistent, maybe conditions change, maybe he changes his mind, maybe he doesn’t communicate perfectly, maybe there are many factors which he is aware of that we aren’t, maybe his weighting of the known factors is different than ours.

      That might illustrate that there are many more possible reasons for Rossi’s behavior that we just haven’t thought of.

      • bachcole

        I think that they are stupid questions, unless you and Ronzonni have never worked in an engineering, development, or production setting. If you haven’t, then you should.

        Things came up. I wouldn’t even be the least bit surprised if he has forgotten all of the reasons that he couldn’t do what he said that he was going to do. He was too busy looking forward to look back.

        • bitplayer

          You might consider the impact of using the phrase “you should”.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I find bachcole to be a reasonable person, who can both speak and listen.

            Suggesting that you should experience that environment to better understand how things work, heretical! Insulting! Self absorbed! Not!

        • Daniel Maris

          A lot will depend on who the customer is. Will it be an organisation with some credible distance from Rossi? I truly hope so.

          A pilot installation following a successful test is to be expected. And then we should see a connection to a grid and proper sales to selected customers.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            What kind of grid? Is there a heat grid? Has the ecat ever produced electricity?

          • mcloki

            Heat grids could take the form of water heated flooring or forced air. Hospitals and larger institutions, ie hotels, have boiler rooms as well. These are heat grids. Though the term isn’t usually used.

          • Fortyniner

            In view of Rossi’s apparently ongoing search for suitable turbines and cyclone steam engines to match to e-cat boilers, it seems highly probable that the pilot plant will be ‘just’ a heater, rather than a generator set.

            No matter – if logged inputs and outputs show continuous gain and reliability, the market will be there – very swiftly. Power generation can come a little later.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I think Campus Steam Network is the term.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            New York City has a heat grid. I have a friend that owns a specialty lumber sawmill. I notice his warehouses have large fuel storage tanks. I think I’ll quiz him on what his heat requirements are. I really can’t see him justifying a $1,000,000 + expenditure. There are grain elevators nearby that might could share in a heat micro-grid. Maybe the ecat would be feasible if instead of buying the reactor, they bought the HEAT from IH.

          • Omega Z

            Iggy

            I’m absolutely positive you will not see a price in the Million plus range.
            Not even for the 1Mw H-cat. Unless they throw in the Boilers, Turbines, Exchangers, brick & mortar along with it. All ready to fire up & produce electricity.
            1 Gigawatt Power plant=3000 1Mw H-cats.
            At 1 to 1.5 Million each= 3 to 4.5 Billion Dollars..
            Note last I read, the world is adding 1.5 to 2 Gigawatts per week & expected to increase to 3 in the near future.
            Actually up until 2008, China was adding that much capacity every week by itself. Actually, It was estimated at 1Gw per week officially & another 1Gw unofficially.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Rumor is, Rossi in early negotiations to buy the Miami Heat. 🙂

          • Daniel Maris

            No, but my feeling through the IH link up is that that is the ultimate goal. Heating will do establish potential.

          • Ophelia Rump

            That is not skepticism, that is denial of reality.
            Were you hiding in a potato storage locker for the last two years?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      You’re welcome.

    • Ophelia Rump

      There were a few complication since he first put the devices up for sale.

      Being funded for twenty million dollars puts you in the awkward position of having to listen to your partner and coordinate an entirely new strategy.

      • bfast

        Frank, you have maintained a stirling relationship with Eng. Rossi. He clearly seems to like you. I think you should request to be one of those who checks out the 1 Mw plant. If it requires a trip to, say Sweden, I bet your readership, including myself, would be willing to cough up to pay for the trip.

        • ecatworld

          Thanks, Bruce — I have been told I have an invitation to visit the plant. I hope it won’t mean a trip as far away as Sweden though. My best guess is this is going to be in the US somewhere which will make things simpler for me.

          • Barry8

            I don’t know Frank. I think you should brush up on your Swedish.

        • georgehants

          From Vortex with thanks
          Kevin O’Malley
          US Company Building Copy of Celani’s LENR Device
          http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg94240.html

          • Gerrit

            Published October 13, 2012

            old news

        • Pierre Ordinaire

          @ bfast. It’s not fair to say that Frank has “mantained a stirling relationship with Eng. Rossi.” Frank has never run hot and cold… 🙂

    • Omega Z

      This isn’t for demo purposes. It will be in use by the customer.
      They’ll allow certain people to come & see it under specific circumstances. They Don’t want a Circus.

      • Omega Z

        If you’re talking about his open sourcing TESLA Technology, It’s a Trojan Horse..
        You can use his TESLA Technology for Free. With Hugh Caveats.

        You have to meet all his high standards. Basically a Clone of his format without variations. At least not without consultations with Tesla. I’m sure Musk will avoid spending a fortune in Patent Wars as he has Stated, BUT- The Rest Of The Story

        Elon Musk is no fool. It appears he’s helping his competition & at the same time avoiding Patent Wars with them. Where in fact, he’s helping himself. He is betting Billions on his Technology.

        Presently, you have VHS, BETA, and other Formats.
        TESLA wants to be the VHS of Formats even if that means helping the competition. He’s protecting his Billions in Investments. Which, If he becomes the BETA of the Industry are worth Squat…

        I have respect for Musk, But, Be aware of the Spin. This is Business Pure and Simple….

        • Ophelia Rump

          I wonder if a competitor with a conflicting patent will sue him for destruction of his patents value by making it public. If those same people do not like sharing as much, Musk will have a problem sooner rather than later.

          • Omega Z

            As far as devaluing a competitors Patent, I don’t know of any such legal standing. Tesla owns it’s patents & can do as they wish with them. Make it cheaper to license or give it away. It would be no different then a competitor developing a better product that devalues your product. You wouldn’t win in a case of law. This doesn’t mean someone wouldn’t file a suit. But they better have money to throw away in legal fee’s. Both-Theirs & Yours when they lose.

            Tesla would still need to fight a patent war if a competitor claimed Tesla’s patent infringed on theirs.

            TESLA has a Hugh wall of patents. More or Less, What Musk has said is if you follow his standards, His business model on deployment of charging stations, etc, TESLA will not take sic their Patent Lawyers on you for infringing. Its Open Source with caveats. It even covers possible future changes by collaboration.

            You can copy it, Build it, Market it. You just have to follow his rules.
            It’s a shrewd business plan. He’s forcing a standard for everyone to use. Very Similar to certain computer connectors. He’s betting that he can compete on an even playing field Verses Another format where his technology gets pushed to the side & all his investment with it as happened to the Beta video format.

            This is a plus for the consumer. Regardless what Charging system you plug into, It’ll be standard. You wont have to drive on down the road looking for your version. An Alternative route would be the Government deciding what system becomes standard. The Governments plan would be determined by who made the biggest campaign contributions. Not necessarily the best technology.. Who do you trust more. Them or Musk.

            As to Open Source. There are many. You can make a “near” perfect $50 knock off of a $10K designer purse. It’s Legal. Just don’t include their Specialty Components like their patented clasp Or their LOGO.
            This applies to designer cloths, shoes and a ton of other things.
            Of course this doesn’t eliminate lawsuits which can break you. But it’s legal.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I agree with you if he supplies an actual standard. If he supplies bits and pieces then he is just inviting loose partnerships to join a coalition.
            That would be more of a PR stunt, the season is young his business is always good theater.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, From what I understand they will have full access to his technology.

            Tom More made his post about a news article on Musk open sourcing.
            I only commented on it because of the spin factor.
            It’s not open sourced in the truest sense most people understand it, “Free to all” But a shrewd & probably Brilliant business plan. Especially when the news puts the proper spin on it. The details were there but not emphasized. Kind of nonchalant.

  • Ronzonni

    Well… with due respect, exhibiting a megawatt plant to the press and the public seems overdue and Rossi has never said clearly why the delay. Maybe it’s time to ask him that nicely.

    Why does it take so long and what would be the down side of publicly showing a plant in a secure customer location, for example on a military base or inside a large factory? Sure, there would be a lot of interest and activity but if a hydrogen bomb plant, a dangerous oil refinery, a weapons factory or a huge GM factory can be protected, couldn’t this be guarded as well? And aren’t interest and sales what Rossi wants?

    I am also having trouble with understanding why the operating parameters which Admin asked Rossi about on JONP should be secret and involve NDA’s. The plant is supposedly for sale commercially and has been since November 2011. I would have hoped that by now, one could be shown in public somewhere and its energy input and output would have been made public directly from the customer! Also the reliability, up vs down time, and operating costs. Nobody would buy it without knowing those.

    If Admin is willing, perhaps he could ask Rossi the above questions, why information is under NDA and when they will release it and can there be as specific a response as possible. Not meaning to sound impatient but it has been a long time.

    Oh, sorry, one more thing. If Dr. Rossi says he is not allowed to answer the above questions or schedule a public showing, then who is? Who should the admin and the rest of the press talk to at this point to get specific information?

    Thank you.

    • Andrew

      Why does it take so long? I thought 3 years is pretty quick from rough prototype to a working plant at a customers location. From what I read I think that the plant was available for viewing for potential customers, It’s not for media hype. If he has what he has he will not need any help from mass media because the money it will save will be enough to drive the big boys to buy to increase profit or fall behind their competitors that have bought. My speculation in regards to the NDA is that this plant is the one that they were offer it for free awhile back and the terms are that they get the plant for free if they pay a small fee for energy consumed and Rossi/IH can use it as a working demo to potential future clients. Of course these type of deals are usually locked down with NDAs .

      • Ronzonni

        3 years is not too long. But the ecat that heated Rossi’s factory was in operation in 2007. The megawatt plant is composed of dozens of modules very similar to it. So is seven years too long? I don’t know.

        • Omega Z

          No, 7 years isn’t to long. It’s been a work in progress.
          Note it took 6 years to develop the I-Phone which iwas based on pre-existing technology.

    • deleo77

      From a larger view the question could be asked as to why Rossi is Industrial Heat’s main form of communication to outsiders at this point? I understand that the company is operating in semi-stealth mode, but are they planning to launch a website with a place to access press releases and product info? Will they have a marketing/corporate communications contact?

      It is interesting to me that the powers that be at IH are leaving it to Rossi, their chief scientist, to disclose all of these things. Obviously for us it is better than nothing, but most companies with IH’s type of funding have all of the above. I am sure they regularly read his posts as well, and it seems like they are comfortable handling it this way for the time being, but hopefully they are working on putting a face to their company at some point.

      • Andrew

        Why not leave it to Rossi? For now? Until working plants/rock sold 3rd party report many are not going to take Rossi seriously. Giving IH a jump start in the market. Rossi has always had a fan base and keeping these people slightly informed isn’t going to hurt anything.

        • Frank Acland

          Industrial Heat seem to have a deliberate policy of non-communication for the moment. They don’t even have a web site, although they have reserved the domain http://industrialheat.co which for the time being redirects to their only official communication to date — the press release announcing their acquisition of the E-Cat.

          I do expect things to change; probably once the 3rd party report has been published — so long as it is a positive one.

          For now, Rossi is handling corporate communications — and I must say he is very prompt in responding to my inquiries, even if he is limited in what he can say.

          • deleo77

            I totally understand that for the time being. And perhaps there is a little bit of strategy in this, as mentioned above. With Rossi as the voice, skeptics can continue on with confidence in their anti-Rossi stance.

            It will be interesting to see how far IH can go this year. The 3rd party test will arrive first, then perhaps some mainstream press out of that (if the test is positive), the viewing of the first commercial installation (perhaps by early Fall), a website launch, an announcement of a major new round of funding for manufacturing and commercialization efforts, and a partnership announcement with a Fortune 500 company for some joint development efforts. If all of that happens for IH in 2014 I will be impressed.

          • I know one such possibility, but for seedling researchs.
            To be published soon I hope… but paperwork is long.

          • Omega Z

            In the meantime, This leaves Rossi as the Target leaving I.H. to work in quiet behind the scenes. Had it not been for a slip, They wouldn’t be known at all.

      • Broncobet

        It would reduce their liability doing it this way,of course if it’s been seven years and people don’t think that that’s too long I guess another seven years wouldn’t upset them too much.I am interested in this third party report and this customer demo but think it will be much later than published.

    • bachcole

      Since your first paragraph is so foolish, I didn’t finish reading the rest. It is an implied attack on Rossi. That is why you had to end it with “to ask him that nicely”. Things happen. Projects get delayed. Rossi’s goal in life is not to keep us happy, and he is not accountable to us about what he says. Anything that he says to us is a pure gift. He doesn’t owe us squat. If he changes his mind or gets delayed or puts something on the back shelf for a time, he doesn’t need to tell us.

      • clovis ray

        That’s right, and from the very start, Dr, rossi has keep us informed on his work, for years,his choose, he like all inventors, loves to talk about his creation and , with like minded friends, that being us.and others on his forum,
        Frank and Dr.Rossi seem to have a good relationship, which is great .
        I personally, like Dr. Rossi, and think he is a fine human-being, and a straight shooter,when it comes to intellect , but even greater, a man of action, we may not see any action, but if you could follow him around, you would know, typical workaholic. thank you, doctor rossi for all you do and have done, still my super hero, and soon the whole world will know you, big smile.

        • bachcole

          High schools will be named after him.

          • Omega Z

            Maybe they will name a Battleship for him.
            Well, they no longer build Battleships, Maybe a CARRIER. 🙂

          • bachcole

            There will be less need for aircraft carriers, but not no need, just less.

        • Martin Leonard

          I couldn’t agree more clovis.

      • I think the post is probably the equivalent of kicking a hole in an ant nest just to see what happens. Hopefully the kicker will go away if he/she doesn’t get too much of a reaction.

    • mcloki

      Why are thing under NDA? Are you serious? So on the Coke tour you’d ask for the recipe for Coke. Or the KFC tour you’d ask why the NDA and by the way, “what are the 11 herbs and spices?” Come on. really. REALLY!

      • Ronzonni

        Of course the mechanism and technical interior details should be under NDA. I was not questioning that. I just have trouble seeing what can be secret about the performance of a power plant which is for sale to anyone with the money and willingness to get the training. And how can you buy it you don’t know exactly what it does, and when and how often it is likely to need maintenance and so on?

        As for Rossi’s industrial competitors, I don’t really know of any which are for sure. But suppose there are some. What would stop them from buying a plant from Rossi using some shell company in another country? Then, when it was delivered, they could take it apart and study all aspects of it to their heart’s content.

        That’s what can happen when you sell things! And Rossi is most definitely selling megawatt plants and has been for about two and a half years, according to his own writings in JONP and elsewhere.

        • Omega Z

          You have to read the fine print.
          You can buy 1, “IF” He approves you as a customer.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      You’re welcome.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      About the delay, I imagine previously none of the test reports were solid enough to dispay a working reactor and still protect his IP. The new tip report should give enough proof without revealing all Rossi’s hard work so it’s save to show the reactor shortly after the report. Bases on the report people can now believe it’s not a scam but a real reactor.

      The rest of your questions should be answered by the above also.

    • Ophelia Rump

      There were a few complications since he first put the devices up for sale.

      Being funded for twenty million dollars puts you in the awkward position of having to listen to your partner and coordinate an entirely new strategy.

    • Omega Z

      This isn’t for demo purposes. It will be in use by the customer.
      They’ll allow certain people to come & see it under specific circumstances. They Don’t want a Circus.

  • mcloki

    Just make sure you bring a bag of tea and prepare a boiling cup of it. Wasn’t that one of the big detractors and haters points you could easily dismiss. Eagerly awaiting that video.

    • Omega Z

      2 tea bags. Proof would be the 2nd cup. 🙂

  • bachcole

    I don’t really know the details of how my furnace works. I don’t really care. As far as I am concerned, it is a blackbox to me. As long as it keeps me warm and is safe and cheap, that’s good enough for me.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      The people who built your furnace fortunately knew how it works. Otherwise, you would perhaps not be alive due to a fire or carbon monoxide intoxication.

      • bachcole

        {furnace as black box to me} = {E-Cat as black box to testers}. {furnace installer and repair person to me} = {Rossi to us}. {furnace sales person to me} = {Levi et. al to us}.

      • Omega Z

        However, It there was a long learning curve.

    • A gas or oil boiler, even a ‘condensing’ type is a very simple machine, and not at all difficult to understand – or for that matter, to maintain. Rossi’s first commercial e-cats will probably be even simpler from an engineering POV.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    The operational proof that the world has been utterly transformed by a new source of cheap, clean nuclear energy (through the revealing of the 1 MW Wee-Cat in reliable operation) would, among other things, create the largest and longest journalism circus the world has ever seen. It would result in an invasion of plant and corporation that would require a very expensive, top-tier administration output in order to provide information to the powers-that-be, as well as a sizable security establishment and an extensive public relations outfit to handle the interest of the world-at-large, including the conventional scientific establishment. Therefore I suspect that the operational 1 MW Wee-Cat will only be revealed after the positive results of the long-term tests have been convincingly released to the world and the tumult from Dr. Rossi’s singular, transformative accomplishment has died down.

    Incidentally—and consistent with the foregoing—Dr. Rossi’s comment about the Wee-Cat suggests to me that the release of the Long Term Test results are positive and might be just around the corner. Anyway, before the price goes up, I’m off to buy my bottle of champagne to celebrate the return of Eden.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    The operational proof that the world has been utterly transformed by a new source of cheap, clean nuclear energy (through the revealing of the 1 MW Wee-Cat in reliable operation) would, among other things, create the largest and longest journalism circus the world has ever seen. It would result in an invasion of plant and corporation that would require a very expensive, top-tier administration output in order to provide information to the powers-that-be, as well as a sizable security establishment and an extensive public relations outfit to handle the interest of the world-at-large, including the conventional scientific establishment. Therefore I suspect that the operational 1 MW Wee-Cat will only be revealed after the positive results of the long-term tests have been convincingly released to the world and the tumult from Dr. Rossi’s singular, transformative accomplishment has died down.
    Incidentally—and consistent with the foregoing—Dr. Rossi’s comment about the Wee-Cat suggests to me that the release of the Long Term Test results are positive and might be just around the corner. Anyway, before the price goes up, I’m off to buy my bottle of champagne to celebrate the return of Eden.

  • Fibber McGourlick

    Dear Frank: The post of mine that you removed isn’t satire. It’s just an opinion and I meant it.

    • Frank Acland

      Hi FM, it was in the moderation queue and I just approved it.

      • Fibber McGourlick

        Thanks.

  • clovis ray

    That’s right, and from the very start, Dr, rossi has keep us informed on his work, for years,his choose, he like all inventors, loves to talk about his creation and , with like minded friends, that being us.and others on his forum,
    Frank and Dr.Rossi seem to have a good relationship, which is great .
    I personally, like Dr. Rossi, and think he is a fine human-being, and a straight shooter,when it comes to intellect , but even greater, a man of action, we may not see any action, but if you could follow him around, you would know, typical workaholic. thank you, doctor rossi for all you do and have done, still my super hero, and soon the whole world will know you, big smile.

    • Fortyniner

      I think the post is probably the equivalent of kicking a hole in an ant’s nest just to see what happens. Hopefully the kicker will go away if he/she doesn’t get too much of a reaction.

      • Pierre Ordinaire

        GreenWin says:

        “This kinda story just makes skepticks business look bad:

        “The nuclear business-industrial-political and media complex in Japan known as the ‘nuclear mafia’ … [the nuclear industry] is a black hole of criminal malfeasance, incompetence, and corruption….”
        Tomohiko Suzuki, Yakuza and The Nuclear Industry: Diary of An Undercover Reporter Working at the Fukushima Plant

        http://rense.com/general95/nuclearmafia.html

        An Rosie tried to get over on Mafia in Italy?? US??”

        • Broncobet

          That’s the way Japanese do business and the reason for the trouble with the reactors. ,For all the billions of KWH’s produced with little carbon, pollution, or radiation in the US we should be grateful. And that was with old tech ,the new reactors will be much better, just ask the Chinese.

      • ecatworld

        Hi FM, it was in the moderation queue and I just approved it.

        • georgehants

          Andy, of course, you are missing my sarcasm.
          If one listens to the average scientist, they try to make out that they know to the second when the Earth formed.
          If Fact they have no idea how the sun formed, how the planets formed or how anything else formed, just the usual load of “expert opinion” excepted by “consensus until as usual they find they have always been wrong.
          Scientists needs to learn three simple words that apply in almost 100% of science beyond the trivial —- we don’t know.
          There are scientists on these pages that know nothing about such things as The Placebo Effect, that come on, replying to me after visiting Wiki-rubbish for five minuets and making out they are now “experts” and know it all.
          Much of science is a comedy of incompetence that it is time scientists started to put right.
          Cold Fusion is just the tip of an enormous iceberg.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Regarding the update of when the earth was formed.
            Without scientists, you would think the earth is 6500 years old and people lived along dinosaurs until the people were evicted for their dining habits.

          • georgehants

            Your logic as in many of your reply’s is faulty.
            I am not saying science does not do a good job on many things including determining the age of the Earth.
            I am saying that instead of printing clearly in text books etc. and their conversations that the age is just the most recent guess, they speak as if they KNOW.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Again I tell you man, the placebo effect is well understood and researched far too often, because it is so easy simple and clean to play with in an educational environment. It is proven and widely accepted. Anyone denying it would suffer instant credibility loss. Let it go.

            Science is not opinions, discussed as facts or otherwise. It is fact, often discussed in the frame work of theories which are always best guesses about causality based upon other known facts, theories, or wild guesses.

          • georgehants

            Ophelia, please do not try and tell me what to do on page.
            Your “opinions” are nothing but worthless “opinions” until you put forward the knowledge and Evidence for every word you utter.
            You and science, as you show in your reply’s have no idea of the power and potential of the Placebo.
            If you bring up the subject with me again, please let us speak Evidence and not pointless “expert opinion”.

    • georgehants

      Astral, perhaps you could give me links to the pages on this Website were these
      “smart intelligent people.” have put up comments fully condemning science in the case of Cold Fusion.
      The premier comics where these bright scientists are condemning the criminal actions regarding Cold Fusion.

      I of course as always except the few brave Rebels perhaps like yourself who are willing to go against the vast mass of incompetent scientists who would not know how to look at Research if you paid them. O of course they do get paid.
      Getting angry at being told the Truth is not very clever.
      Changing the wrong to right, is clever.

    • Martin Leonard

      I couldn’t agree more clovis.

  • georgehants

    Our wonderful scientific Elite, that most of the average scientists follow like sheep and who are so clever that they religiously can tell everybody from “opinion” alone that things like Cold Fusion are impossible, because they have consulted with their gods of science, strangely do not even know anything about the planet on which we live.
    ———-
    Red Orbit
    Earth And Moon Are Older Than Previously Thought
    Read more at http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1113168450/earth-moon-formation-timeline-changes-061214/#GwCrwpPAMTjmqEbv.99

  • georgehants

    Our wonderful scientific Elite, that most of the average scientists follow like sheep and who are so clever that they religiously can tell everybody from “opinion” alone that things like Cold Fusion are impossible, because they have consulted with their gods of science, strangely do not even know anything about the planet on which we live.
    ———-
    Red Orbit
    Earth And Moon Are Older Than Previously Thought
    Read more at http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1113168450/earth-moon-formation-timeline-changes-061214/#GwCrwpPAMTjmqEbv.99

    • AstralProjectee

      That sounds way too extreme. In talking about mainstream scientists: “strangely do not even know anything about the planet on which we live.” Dude scientists have contributed a lot. It was a very very small group of scientists that did wrong in the cold fusion case. And the rest just followed along. Rossi isn’t perfect, IMO he got lucky in a way. Don’t be so extreme, as if mainstream scientists have nothing to teach us. Many of them are very smart intelligent people.

      • georgehants

        Astral, perhaps you could give me links to the pages on this Website were these
        “smart intelligent people.” have put up comments fully condemning science in the case of Cold Fusion.
        The premier comics where these bright scientists are condemning the criminal actions regarding Cold Fusion.

        I of course as always except the few brave Rebels perhaps like yourself who are willing to go against the vast mass of incompetent scientists who would not know how to look at Research if you paid them. O of course they do get paid.
        Getting angry at being told the Truth is not very clever.
        Changing the wrong to right, is clever.

        • AstralProjectee

          You don’t seem to understand. You see cold fusion is not reproducible every-time in many cases. It can takes weeks perhaps months or years to get excess heat and even then it may not be reproducible. They like to work with reactions that are reproducible every single time. And they just don’t feel like taking the time and energy to do such things, thinking that theirs will lead to better results since it seems at very least to be more reliable and reproducible. Even besides the methods that they use. Your acting as if mainstream scientists haven’t contributed to our understanding of the world and in helping to end suffering. Where do you think all the technology has come from. It game from largely mainstream science that has to go through very rigorous review. It’s still be refined to this day on what constitutes good science.

          You see there are different forms of science. There is from Wikipedia

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_science
          “Fringe science is scientific inquiry in an established field of study that departs significantly from mainstream or orthodoxtheories, and is classified in the “fringes” of a credible mainstream academic discipline.

          Three classifications of scientific ideas have been identified (center, frontier, fringe) with mainstream scientists typically regarding fringe concepts as highly speculative or even strongly refuted.[1] However, according to Rosenthal “Accepted science may merge into frontier science, which in turn may merge into more far-out ideas, or fringe science. Really wild ideas may be considered beyond the fringe, or pseudoscientific.” [2]””

          It’s very obvious what is going on here, the mainstream science or should I say “Center Science” group is not ready to accept frontier science yet. They need more empirical proof. And cold fusion/LENR will provide that exactly that. That frontier science is respectable much more often than frontier science right now. Since frontier science is working with experiments that may or may not work out in the end and get results. You see investors don’t want to waste money on things that may or may not work. They want something that will definitely give results almost every-time. So let the center scienctists see that frontier science can work for themselves. In the meantime they don’t feel like wasting their time and money on reactions that seem at best provide anomalous excess heat that can’t be used to make a commercial device. At the same time I agree that there are some mainstream/center scientists that really did screw up. They messed up a lot and they were biased. But I don’t think they did it fully understanding the ramifications what they were doing. Though their might have been a few at MIT. But they don’t speak for everyone. They did they really messed up. But don’t label all of them that way.

          Case in point. I remember one of the scientists that signed a paper condemning cold fusion back in about 1989 but later he realized that it was a bad decision that was based on what these extreme scientists were saying. His name is called Melvin Miles and you can see youtube videos of him talking about cold fusion/LENR. So don’t label all of them so extremely in umbrella statements.

          These mainstream scientists have reasons for believing what they believe. And so once cold fusion is proven to be true it will be up to them to make sure this doesn’t happen again for the next big thing. But they can’t do everything. They have a lot on their plate. Now I am sure once cold fusion is proven to be real this will spark a lot of debate, and it should lead to changes in the mainstream methods of how they do science to a degree. Now if they don’t do that, even after having this cold fusion case redeemed then I would say they all messed up really bad. And they really need to changed their attitudes. But that still doesn’t mean that they don’t “know anything about the planet on which we live.” Center science does work. But it works differently than frontier science. They have learned a lot about how it works. I think you have this idea that it’s easy to test things and get real conclusions from them of the natural world. It doesn’t always work like that. Many scientists just can’t consistently get excess heat out of their experiments. So they don’t deal with it since it’s not consistent enough for them.

          Center/Mainstream scientists have made more energy than what has been put in in hot fusion research. And they are learning by doing this what happens at the center of stars while doing it. It’s a slow working progress. But in the mean time you can look around you and see all the things science has made through mainstream technology. I hope you understand what I am saying now.

    • Andy Kumar

      “… do not about the planet we live on…”
      Surely, Geroge you must be kidding…
      For a planet that is 4 billion years old, a correction in the age of the planet of 60 million does not amount to NOT KNOWING!
      For pete sake my mother does not even know what month I was born in. She only knows it was summer. But she knew enough to raise me well.
      ANDY

      • georgehants

        Andy, of course, you are missing my sarcasm.
        If one listens to the average scientist, they try to make out that they know to the second when the Earth formed.
        If Fact they have no idea how the sun formed, how the planets formed or how anything else formed, just the usual load of “expert opinion” excepted by “consensus until as usual they find they have always been wrong.
        Scientists needs to learn three simple words that apply in almost 100% of science beyond the trivial —- we don’t know.
        There are scientists on these pages that know nothing about such things as The Placebo Effect, that come on, replying to me after visiting Wiki-rubbish for five minuets and making out they are now “experts” and know it all.
        Much of science is a comedy of incompetence that it is time scientists started to put right.
        Cold Fusion is just the tip of an enormous iceberg.

        • Hector McNuget

          Is truest true georgehants! 4 billions years or 6000s, science made fool when everymans can know truth from common senses.

          Recall georgehants: tip of iceberg made Titanic sink! Titanic of science is soon on ocean floor, sunk by cold fusion.

        • Ophelia Rump

          Regarding the update of when the earth was formed.
          Without scientists, you would think the earth is 6500 years old and people lived along dinosaurs until the people were evicted for their dining habits.
          As you watched the sun orbit around the flat earth, and purged the bad humors from your body with leaches.

          • bachcole

            I say unto thee, verily, verily, it is better described as a switch from a Biblical perspective to a scientific perspective, getting our faces out of The Book and getting us to look at the evidence. But unfortunately, while making this switch, we tended to enthrone the scientists after we dethroned The Book.

          • georgehants

            Your understanding as in many of your reply’s is faulty.
            I am not saying science does not do a good job on many things including determining the age of the Earth.
            I am saying that instead of printing clearly in text books etc. and their conversations that the age is just the most recent guess, they speak as if they KNOW.
            It is this incompetent and arrogant attempt to make out that they have all the answers that makes all of science look like silly little children, including by default the many GOOD scientists.
            As shown on these pages, when such an important subject as the Placebo Effect is raised, silly scientists jump on without ever having done any genuine Research of the subject and give their pointless “opinions” as if they are Facts.
            Or a single link from Wiki-rubbish of the kind that debunks Cold Fusion and think that proves their case.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Again I tell you man, the placebo effect is well understood and researched far too often, because it is so easy simple and clean to play with in an educational environment. It is proven and widely accepted. It was taught to me over 30 years ago as part of the scientific dogma which you abhor. Anyone denying it would suffer instant credibility loss. Let it go.

            Science loves placebo effect! know this, it is real.

            Science is not an opinion, it is a process. Reporters are not scientists, and even if they were, they are not practicing science when they report, they are practicing reporting.

            The world has not changed. The progression of understanding has always been this messy. The noise and stink of it all may even play an important role in the process, that is one theory anyway.

          • georgehants

            Ophelia, please do not try and tell me what to do on page.
            Your “opinions” are nothing but worthless “opinions” until you put forward the knowledge and Evidence for every word you utter.
            You and science, as you show in your reply’s have no idea of the power and potential of the Placebo.
            If you bring up the subject with me again, please let us speak Evidence and not pointless “expert opinion”.

    • bachcole

      I get the feeling from the scientific elite that their attitude is NOT that they know everything, but that their means of knowing anything is the ONLY means, and the reason of us should shut up and listen to them and believe everything that they say, even if they change what they say every now and then. That is not what science is about.

  • Hope4Dbest

    GreenWin says:

    “This kinda story just makes skepticks business look bad:

    “The nuclear business-industrial-political and media complex in Japan known as the ‘nuclear mafia’ … [the nuclear industry] is a black hole of criminal malfeasance, incompetence, and corruption….”
    Tomohiko Suzuki, Yakuza and The Nuclear Industry: Diary of An Undercover Reporter Working at the Fukushima Plant

    http://rense.com/general95/nuclearmafia.html

    An Rosie tried to get over on Mafia in Italy?? US??”

    • PO, I’m sure that if GreenWin wants his comments on ECN repeated here then he’ll do that under his own tag and without the persona and patois he assumes over there.

      • Obvious

        I hope his patois is better than his typed Mafioso accent I saw on an old post somewhere.
        I almost cried tears for Italy while I was reading it….

    • Broncobet

      That’s the way Japanese do business and the reason for the trouble with the reactors. ,For all the billions of KWH’s produced with little carbon, pollution, or radiation in the US we should be grateful. And that was with old tech ,the new reactors will be much better, just ask the Chinese.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I have a feeling that the upcoming report will be quite positive and that a working 1MW system will be displayed in a coordinated way shortly after. That should be the big breakthrough the world has been waiting for. Now mainstream media can finally commit to publishing the story. Scientists can visit and view the fenomenon in action. The TIP report should give enough scientific proof that something very unusual is going on there.

    Now after LENR hits the world big time I really hope the whole scientific system will get a serious overhaul due to public outrage when the whole CF drama is revealed to them. Imagine we basically will have been saved by a bunch of stubborn, brave old persistent geezers. There really are no new young bright scientists in this field. If nothing changes, in the future scientists will only reseach what big companies want them to reseach and yet more will only be determined through economics, not pure reseach. Who knows what great discoveries more we’ll miss because we’ve killed curiosity.

    Lastly, I must confess to some big schadenfreude when there can be no more denying LENR. Let’s see who has the balls to come out and admit they where wrong and who will keep going against all odds…

    • Ophelia Rump

      Who knows what they have already killed and we do not know about it.
      Maybe entire fields of science lie on the cutting room floor waiting for someday.

    • Billy Jackson

      Hmm i don’t have a strong opinion on this just not really interested in it. If they are making a 1MW plant to run something public as proof this works.. then yes i am all for it..but if this is another we’re making a 1MW plant and its going to some obscure location we will never see.. it would have been better off not to mention, as its nothing more than a distraction from the report we are waiting on..

      right now all focus should be on the report. this announcement about a 1MW plant is actually a disservice to the report without the details on why they are making it.

      • Fortyniner

        I’m not clear on why you think that disclosure of a working prototype CF reactor after release of the 2nd third party report would be in any way detrimental.

        We can’t be privy to IH’s plans for introducing the technology, but publication of the report would be a logical first step, to be followed by a planned ‘splash’ to include invitations to influential individuals to visit the pilot plant, and whatever else they may have in mind.

        Without any follow-up, the report (no matter how stunning the results) could still be frozen out of the general perception if the MSM and ‘academia’ simply ignore it – the more so if an army of online shills simultaneously focus on ridiculing and discrediting the report and all involved with it (as they will). That will become rather more difficult when the physical proof is available for inspection, and even more so if industrial CF heat sources are available for lease to any company who wants to save a heap of money on their energy bills.

        • Billy Jackson

          if it was released AFTER the report then yes i can see the announcement and it making sense. but this is being announced before the report.. i seriously think that all focus should be on the report at this time.. its just too important to be distracted by a side project that we dont even know if its gonna be public or not..

          with the past few years jumping from one random announcement to another.. i thought that the recent slow grind toward the report release lended Rossi more credit and stability than his jumping from project to project did..

          • Fortyniner

            I think we need to remember that anyone coming across the report when published will see a relatively ‘dry’ document with organised data sets and interpretations in ‘scientific’ language. It won’t be immediately apparent that this is proof that the world is about to change profoundly. On its own therefore it won’t change much – just prove to the already convinced that they were right to stay with the drama largely on faith for so long.

            It is only if the results are ‘interpreted’ by science columnists and pop science rags that the significance of the report would become widely understood. As this seems unlikely, IH will need to get behind the report in ways that are harder to dismiss – by publicly disclosing their pilot plant and inviting qualified viewers, sending brochures to hundreds of potential customers, sending out pre-digested press releases, opening a major new webiste, placing ads in newspapers and in specialist magazines and journals, and in short, doing all the other things a major industrial ‘launch’ requires.

            This will be a critical period for IH and their investor group, and I wouldn’t expect any half measures when the time comes. Rossi’s comments are just intended to prepare the ground a little I think, or maybe just because he likes to keep his followers as informed as his associates will allow.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I bet they were younger men when they started researching this, do not think that young people are any less noble today then decades ago.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I have a feeling that the upcoming report will be quite positive and that a working 1MW system will be displayed in a coordinated way shortly after. That should be the big breakthrough the world has been waiting for. Now mainstream media can finally commit to publishing the story. Scientists can visit and view the fenomenon in action. The TIP report should give enough scientific proof that something very unusual is going on there.

    Now after LENR hits the world big time I really hope the whole scientific system will get a serious overhaul due to public outrage when the whole CF drama is revealed to them. Imagine we basically will have been saved by a bunch of stubborn, brave old persistent geezers. There really are no new young bright scientists in this field. If nothing changes, in the future scientists will only reseach what big companies want them to reseach and yet more will only be determined through economics, not pure reseach. Who knows what great discoveries more we’ll miss because we’ve killed curiosity.

    Lastly, I must confess to some big schadenfreude when there can be no more denying LENR. Let’s see who has the balls to come out and admit they where wrong and who will keep going against all odds…

    • Ophelia Rump

      Who knows what they have already killed and we do not know about it.
      Maybe entire fields of science lie on the cutting room floor waiting for someday.
      It would be foolish to assume that Cold Fusion is the first and only science to get buried alive at birth. Science has a long and ugly history.

    • Hector McNuget

      World cup: check.
      TIP positive report: check.
      ecats for make visit: check.
      blissfull summer: check.
      only Croatia victims of Brasil bulldozer make sadnes this day.

      • Wonderboy

        Do u think Rossi is watching the World Cup? I could picture him in a lab with a small tv going..

        Maybe someone should ask him 😀

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          Rumor is, Rossi in early negotiations to buy the Miami Heat. 🙂

    • Billy Jackson

      Hmm i don’t have a strong opinion on this just not really interested in it. If they are making a 1MW plant to run something public as proof this works.. then yes i am all for it..but if this is another we’re making a 1MW plant and its going to some obscure location we will never see.. it would have been better off not to mention, as its nothing more than a distraction from the report we are waiting on..

      right now all focus should be on the report. this announcement about a 1MW plant is actually a disservice to the report without the details on why they are making it.

      • I’m not clear on why you think that disclosure of a working prototype CF reactor after release of the 2nd third party report would be in any way detrimental.

        We can’t be privy to IH’s plans for introducing the technology, but publication of the report would be a logical first step, to be followed by a planned ‘splash’ to include invitations to influential individuals to visit the pilot plant, and whatever else they may have in mind.

        Without any follow-up, the report (no matter how stunning the results) could still be frozen out of the general perception if the MSM and ‘academia’ simply ignore it – the more so if an army of online shills simultaneously focus on ridiculing and discrediting the report and all involved with it (as they will). That will become rather more difficult when the physical proof is available for inspection, and even more so if industrial CF heat sources are available for lease to any company who wants to save a heap of money on their energy bills.

        • Billy Jackson

          if it was released AFTER the report then yes i can see the announcement and it making sense. but this is being announced before the report.. i seriously think that all focus should be on the report at this time.. its just too important to be distracted by a side project that we dont even know if its gonna be public or not..

          with the past few years jumping from one random announcement to another.. i thought that the recent slow grind toward the report release lended Rossi more credit and stability than his jumping from project to project did..

          • I think we need to remember that anyone coming across the report when published will see a relatively ‘dry’ document with organised data sets and interpretations in ‘scientific’ language. It won’t be immediately apparent that this is proof that the world is about to change profoundly. On its own therefore it won’t change much – just prove to the already convinced that they were right to stay with the drama largely on faith for so long.

            It is only if the results are ‘interpreted’ by science columnists and pop science rags that the significance of the report would become widely understood. As this seems unlikely, IH will need to get behind the report in ways that are harder to dismiss – by publicly disclosing the existence and location of their pilot plant and inviting qualified viewers, sending brochures to hundreds of potential top-level customers, sending out pre-digested press releases, opening a major new webiste, placing ads in newspapers and in specialist magazines and journals, and in short, doing all the other things a major industrial ‘launch’ requires.

            This will be a critical period for IH and their investor group, and I wouldn’t expect any half measures when the time comes. Rossi’s comments are just intended to prepare the ground a little I think, or maybe just because he likes to keep his followers as informed as his associates will allow.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I bet they were younger men when they started researching this, do not think that young people are any less noble today then decades ago.

  • GreenWin

    Two new trolls have crawled from beneath their bridge. Mr Pierre Ordinaire and Ronzonni fit the bill nicely. Ronzonni (points for original name) has invented a timeline and like a shill with a bone – refuses to let go. Mr. Ordinaire is even less original, and unable to distinguish skeptic from non-skeptics. 🙂

  • bachcole

    It seems obvious to me that some skeptopaths may try to sabotage the display plant. Yes, I do think so lowly of some of them.

    • Kevin O

      I think even lower of them. They will see such a plant in operation and look for a way to sabotage it but not have the smarts to even put a banana peel down for someone to slip on.

      Naturally, a year later, they will say they were LENR supporters all along. That’s what happened with the Wright brothers.

    • Wonderboy

      Deranged individual or corporate/foreign national interest group?

  • Anders M

    Hydro Fusion was looking for a pilot customer in Sweden for a 1 MW ecat plant one year ago (June 10 2013). There has been no information about this since then: http://www.ecat.com

  • Gary Wrong
    • Andreas Moraitis

      Thanks. With regard to Duke Energy and LENR, I found the following discussion on LinkedIn:

      http://www.linkedin.com/groups/What-are-your-thoughts-on-3676376.S.230877573

      You will notice that there are some oddities, but if that woman really works for Duke Energy it might be worthwhile digging somewhat deeper.

      • Omega Z

        According to her posts in the comments, I have no doubt she is aware of Rossi & the E-cats. She probably has the itinerary of his coming tour.

  • Wonderboy

    I wonder what specific work Rossi is doing at this new plant that requires his full focus. Also, I wonder if it has his product, or the one constructed by the new parent company. If he is chief scientist, I thought his role was more r&d. You would think this is more operational and he would provide oversite…. either or his role would say a lot about the expertise at the new company.

  • bfast

    Frank, you have maintained a stirling relationship with Eng. Rossi. He clearly seems to like you. I think you should request to be one of those who checks out the 1 Mw plant. If it requires a trip to, say Sweden, I bet your readership, including myself, would be willing to cough up to pay for the trip.

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks, Bruce — I have been told I have an invitation to visit the plant. I hope it won’t mean a trip as far away as Sweden though. My best guess is this is going to be here in the USA somewhere which will make things simpler for me.

      • I don’t know Frank. I think you should brush up on your Swedish.

    • Hope4Dbest

      @ bfast. It’s not fair to say that Frank has “mantained a stirling relationship with Eng. Rossi.” Frank has never run hot and cold… 🙂

  • Kevin O

    I think it will be at a Hydrofusion site. In Sweden.

  • Kevin O

    Nadex, Moving on Intrade’s old turf, REGISTERED WITH CFTC

    by ko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:29 pm

    registered with the CFTC

    At
    Vortex-L, we’ve been discussing how to invest in support of LENR on
    various threads. Here is a new way : get Nadex to list a binary
    contract before the independent report comes out. If the report is
    positive, it would pay out directly to LENR afficianados. If negative,
    it pays out to skeptopaths.

    Here’s our chance to support LENR or
    to squash it, whichever is your desire… and make some money at the
    same time. Even if you don’t want to involve money, at least you can
    send support for the idea to Nadex.

    ———————————————————————————————————

    http://www.nadex.com/why-nadex.html?CHI … !!g!!nadex

    Why Nadex?

    Nadex offers an entirely new way of trading the financial markets.
    Flat Markets
    Protection from Market Spikes

    With Nadex you won’t get stopped out, even if the market spikes against you.

    Learn More
    Legal_for_US_Residents
    Legal for US Residents

    Nadex is a US exchange, registered with the CFTC

    and open to US members only.
    —————————————————————————————————-

    Kevin O’Malley

    to customerservice
    Howdy:

    I’m
    interested in setting up a contract that I could trade on. It would
    have to do with the upcoming independent report about Andrea Rossi’s
    Ecat. Basically, if the independent professors’ report is positive or
    negative, it generates a binary result. Nadex or a trusted advising
    board would decide.

    I’ve previously gotten a LENR contract listed on Intrade, which paid out handsomely in favor of the replication…
    http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/post … /2239.page

    and now I’ve moved into a position at CYPW, Cyclone Power, which I
    believe would benefit in the case of a LENR breakout. I’m active on
    Vortex-L
    http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vo … 7Malley%22

    , the FQXI essay contest
    http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2024

    and the CYPW message board.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/uservie … 0d6f37996d

    This
    is one of those fascinating black swan contracts. And it could make a
    name for Nadex, one way or the other. Controversy is just a way to
    steer interest to your site and service…

    best regards

  • Kevin O

    Nadex, Moving on Intrade’s old turf, REGISTERED WITH CFTC

    by ko » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:29 pm

    registered with the CFTC

    At
    Vortex-L, we’ve been discussing how to invest in support of LENR on
    various threads. Here is a new way : get Nadex to list a binary
    contract before the independent report comes out. If the report is
    positive, it would pay out directly to LENR afficianados. If negative,
    it pays out to skeptopaths.

    Here’s our chance to support LENR or
    to squash it, whichever is your desire… and make some money at the
    same time. Even if you don’t want to involve money, at least you can
    send support for the idea to Nadex.

    ———————————————————————————————————

    http://www.nadex.com/why-nadex.html?CHI … !!g!!nadex

    Why Nadex?

    Nadex offers an entirely new way of trading the financial markets.
    Flat Markets
    Protection from Market Spikes

    With Nadex you won’t get stopped out, even if the market spikes against you.

    Learn More
    Legal_for_US_Residents
    Legal for US Residents

    Nadex is a US exchange, registered with the CFTC

    and open to US members only.
    —————————————————————————————————-

    Kevin O’Malley

    to customerservice
    Howdy:

    I’m
    interested in setting up a contract that I could trade on. It would
    have to do with the upcoming independent report about Andrea Rossi’s
    Ecat. Basically, if the independent professors’ report is positive or
    negative, it generates a binary result. Nadex or a trusted advising
    board would decide.

    I’ve previously gotten a LENR contract listed on Intrade, which paid out handsomely in favor of the replication…
    http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/post … /2239.page

    and now I’ve moved into a position at CYPW, Cyclone Power, which I
    believe would benefit in the case of a LENR breakout. I’m active on
    Vortex-L
    http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vo … 7Malley%22

    , the FQXI essay contest
    http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2024

    and the CYPW message board.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/uservie … 0d6f37996d

    This
    is one of those fascinating black swan contracts. And it could make a
    name for Nadex, one way or the other. Controversy is just a way to
    steer interest to your site and service…

    best regards

  • Kevin O

    I think even lower of them. They will see such a plant in operation and look for a way to sabotage it but not have the smarts to even put a banana peel down for someone to slip on.

    Naturally, a year later, they will say they were LENR supporters all along. That’s what happened with the Wright brothers.

  • Omega Z

    Frank-

    There was a Poster on JONP, Don’t recall his name.
    He has Followed on JONP for a very long time. He has had many contacts with Rossi both on JONP & thru Leonardo.

    I wonder if he could possibly be the customer. He was very interested in the heat for processing his products. “GREEN” products specifically which fits with Cherokee projects.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks
    Kevin O’Malley
    US Company Building Copy of Celani’s LENR Device
    http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg94240.html

    • Gerrit

      Published October 13, 2012

      old news

  • Omega Z

    You have to read the fine print.
    You can buy 1, “IF” He approves you as a customer.

  • Omega Z

    Maybe they will name a Battleship for him.
    Well, they no longer build Battleships, Maybe a CARRIER. 🙂

    • bachcole

      There will be less need for aircraft carriers, but not no need, just less.

      • Pierre Ordinaire

        GreenWin says:

        ““A group of Italian and US scientists, from the Sbara Institute for Cancer Research at Temple University in Philadelphia, found that 30 years of the Camorra Mafia disposing toxic refuse in the area north of Naples were to blame for breast cancer rates 47percent above the national average, while another study found birth defects were 80 percent above the norm.”

        These is guys Rosie tangled with 20 years ago. Geez.

        http://rt.com/news/mafia-toxic-waste-army-937/

        • US_Citizen71

          Well, you reap what sow!

          • bitplayer

            So, all people who are abused by organized crime somehow deserve that?

          • US_Citizen71

            Strawman alert!!!

  • Omega Z

    No, 7 years isn’t to long. It’s been a work in progress.
    Note it took 6 years to develop the I-Phone which iwas based on pre-existing technology.

  • ecatworld

    Good point, Pedro.

    This is probably why Rossi has said he is working all the time on this plant right now — getting it ready for installation.

  • Fortyniner

    Admin – comments seem to be going missing all over this thread.

    • ecatworld

      Thanks 49er. I will look into it.

    • ecatworld

      The comments are all here but they show up near the very bottom of this thread since they were replies to comments in an earlier conversation.

  • Admin – comments seem to be going missing in this thread. Unless you are wielding the sword of moderation very freely I think there may be a problem.

    Edit: Disappearing comments have reappeared!

    • Frank Acland

      Thanks 49er. I will look into it.

    • Frank Acland

      The comments are all here but they show up near the very bottom of this thread since they were replies to comments in an earlier conversation.

  • Tim

    Has anyone been following the recent developments in focus fusion? At least scientists can explain what’s going on in this type of fusion, and one company seems close to developing something useful with it.

    • mcloki

      Lots of room at the table. I’ll use the same retort people use to knock Rossi. Can Focus fusion boil a cup of tea with it yet?

      • bachcole

        There is a difference. If the E-Cat works, then it will revolutionize physics; it is using unknown science. The Focus Fusion may revolution a lot of things, but physics is not one of them; it is using known science.

    • GreenWin

      Focus supporters are worried about CF “magic and witchcraft” — suggesting a not altogether scientific mindset. Best of luck.

  • Tom More

    Perhaps Rossi should talk to Elon Musk….

    • Omega Z

      If you’re talking about his open sourcing TESLA Technology, It’s a Trojan Horse..
      You can use his TESLA Technology for Free. With Hugh Caveats.

      You have to meet all his high standards. Basically a Clone of his format without variations. At least not without consultations with Tesla. I’m sure Musk will avoid spending a fortune in Patent Wars as he has Stated, BUT- The Rest Of The Story

      Elon Musk is no fool. It appears he’s helping his competition & at the same time avoiding Patent Wars with them. Where in fact, he’s helping himself. He is betting Billions on his Technology.

      Presently, you have VHS, BETA, and other Formats.
      TESLA wants to be the VHS of Formats even if that means helping the competition. He’s protecting his Billions in Investments. Which, If he becomes the BETA of the Industry are worth Squat…

      I have respect for Musk, But, Be aware of the Spin. This is Business Pure and Simple….

      • Ophelia Rump

        I wonder if a competitor with a conflicting patent will sue him for destruction of his patents value by making it public. If those same people do not like sharing as much, Musk will have a problem sooner rather than later.

        I wonder if anyone has written an RFC providing a protocol for open source modularization of an open source automobile.

        It would be interesting if you could just by car modules built to a standard for interconnectivity and assemble your own automobile, the way you can buy computer parts and assemble your own.

        If Elon Musk wants to own the auto industry with opensource, he needs to provide a couple of RFCs to kick off the gold rush of him letting other people provide alternative parts for his automobile. Not alternative manufacture of his parts, he needs to provide a set of standards for connectivity so other designers can provide alternative design custom parts. If he got the custom parts industry behind him, he would be a force of nature.

        If it were truly open source, you could in theory build the entire car from third party parts. That would be an extremely popular automobile, because it might result in perpetual models. With an infinite maintenance life. They could improve over a lifetime through upgrades, and become a legacy, empowering more localized production and distribution.

        • Omega Z

          As far as devaluing a competitors Patent, I don’t know of any such legal standing. Tesla owns it’s patents & can do as they wish with them. Make it cheaper to license or give it away. It would be no different then a competitor developing a better product that devalues your product. You wouldn’t win in a case of law. This doesn’t mean someone wouldn’t file a suit. But they better have money to throw away in legal fee’s. Both-Theirs & Yours when they lose.

          Tesla would still need to fight a patent war if a competitor claimed Tesla’s patent infringed on theirs.

          TESLA has a Hugh wall of patents. More or Less, What Musk has said is if you follow his standards, His business model on deployment of charging stations, etc, TESLA will not take sic their Patent Lawyers on you for infringing. Its Open Source with caveats. It even covers possible future changes by collaboration.

          You can copy it, Build it, Market it. You just have to follow his rules.
          It’s a shrewd business plan. He’s forcing a standard for everyone to use. Very Similar to certain computer connectors. He’s betting that he can compete on an even playing field Verses Another format where his technology gets pushed to the side & all his investment with it as happened to the Beta video format.

          This is a plus for the consumer. Regardless what Charging system you plug into, It’ll be standard. You wont have to drive on down the road looking for your version. An Alternative route would be the Government deciding what system becomes standard. The Governments plan would be determined by who made the biggest campaign contributions. Not necessarily the best technology.. Who do you trust more. Them or Musk.

          As to Open Source. There are many. You can make a “near” perfect $50 knock off of a $10K designer purse. It’s Legal. Just don’t include their Specialty Components like their patented clasp Or their LOGO.
          This applies to designer cloths, shoes and a ton of other things.
          Of course this doesn’t eliminate lawsuits which can break you. But it’s legal.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I agree with you if he supplies an actual standard. If he supplies bits and pieces then he is just inviting loose partnerships to join a coalition.
            That would be more of a PR stunt, the season is young his business is always good theater.

          • Omega Z

            Yes, From what I understand they will have full access to his technology.

            Tom More made his post about a news article on Musk open sourcing.
            I only commented on it because of the spin factor.
            It’s not open sourced in the truest sense most people understand it, “Free to all” But a shrewd & probably Brilliant business plan. Especially when the news puts the proper spin on it. The details were there but not emphasized. Kind of nonchalant.

  • mcloki

    Lots of room at the table. I’ll use the same retort people use to knock Rossi. Can Focus fusion boil a cup of tea with it yet?

  • GreenWin

    Focus supporters are worried about CF “magic and witchcraft” — suggesting a not altogether scientific mindset. Best of luck.

  • Hope4Dbest

    GreenWin says:

    ““A group of Italian and US scientists, from the Sbara Institute for Cancer Research at Temple University in Philadelphia, found that 30 years of the Camorra Mafia disposing toxic refuse in the area north of Naples were to blame for breast cancer rates 47percent above the national average, while another study found birth defects were 80 percent above the norm.”

    These is guys Rosie tangled with 20 years ago. Geez.

    http://rt.com/news/mafia-toxic-waste-army-937/

    • US_Citizen71

      Well, you reap what sow!

  • Obvious

    I hope his patois is better than his typed Mafioso accent I saw on an old post somewhere.
    I almost cried tears for Italy while I was reading it….

  • Anon2012_2014

    1 MW Plant visit. By whom and under what terms. Can anything be measured going in or coming out?

    This plant visit is PR release noise. I want the scientific report that closes the loopholes, not another PR stunt.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Take a deep breath. It’s OK they can do both.

  • Anon2012_2014

    1 MW Plant visit. By whom and under what terms. Can anything be measured going in or coming out?

    This plant visit is PR release noise. I want the scientific report that closes the loopholes, not another PR stunt.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Take a deep breath. It’s OK they can do both.

    • bachcole

      When the good guys do PR, I have no problem with it. It is the PR from the bad guys I have trouble with, like potato chip packaging saying that it contains no cholesterol.

  • Paul Smith

    I am very disappointed on Rossi about the 1 MW. plant.
    He is talking about it for many years, and he still continues to talk about it.
    Only words. Skeptics say that those words are just “Rossi says”

    • bachcole

      I am unsure of your definition of skeptic, but I said that for 19 months or so. I did not disbelieve him. I neither believed nor disbelieved him. This is a difference.

    • Freethinker

      I am amazed with you people complaining about what “Rossi says”.

      Read his blog, or derivative thereof, at own risk. Do understand that the blog is his, and he writes all kinds of things there, like his worries, his desires, his hopes, sometimes his plans, and sometimes speculation or most of the times simple answers to peoples questions. At times he likely use the blog to his ends, but mostly it is simply a short answer channel.

      Many things Rossi has said has come to pass, one way or another, at one point in time or another. Many things has also failed to materialize.

      You cannot use the blog against him in the perpetual accusation of scam. It is your own fault you take it so literately.

      My bet is as follows:
      There will be a report, within a month. There will be a semi-public demo for a select group of people, somewhat coinciding with that report. Possibly there will be announcements from Industrial Heat and the customer (Duke Energy?) at the same time.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, the “Rossi only says” meme is getting pretty frayed around the edges. What have the people who keep saying “Rossi only says,” DONE? Nothing but complained.

      • blanco69

        Understood. However one must take care not to disregatd all the Rossi says that haven”t come to pass, ( and there are many ) and focus only on the Rossi says that can be rationalised by our own hopes and dreams. You should never completely close the door on skeptism until there’s an ecat powering your life.

      • We can probably expect to see a lot more of this kind of contrived negativism from unfamiliar and grammatically-challenged commenters as we get closer to some very important developments.

        The shills don’t have a lot to go with any more, but that won’t stop them trying to bash the cr*p out of all the old familiar refrains in a (hopefully) final attempt to muddy the water before their employment opportunities fade away.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Bravo! Well spoken, well conceived.

  • bachcole

    I am unsure of your definition of skeptic, but I said that for 19 months or so. I did not disbelieve him. I neither believed nor disbelieved him. This is a difference.

  • kasom

    counting on what A.R. has said shortly before, he is focussed on the 1 MW HOT-cat!!

    So, if the working customer installation is indeed a 1 MW HOT-cat, it is new tech not the old blue container.

    That would really be a breaking news!

    I wish all the best fpor him, IH, us here and mankind!!

    • Ophelia Rump

      I could not imagine why he would test with anything but the best he has available.
      So I agree with you on this, I also think it will be some formalized version of the Hot-Cat. The original looked cobbled together. I expect the final version to look a little more manufactured and optimized.

      • Buck

        Ophelia,

        Rossi was clear that the TIP evaluation team was working with the most up-to-date design of the Hot-Cat..

        • Ophelia Rump

          Thank you Buck.

        • Fortyniner

          It was the most up to date design 8 or 9 months ago when testing began. This was probably also the design that was used to built another prototype 1MW unit to lease out, probably to an investor subsidiary, for ‘field’ testing. (This may be the ‘pilot’ plant we hope to learn more about soon).

          Since then though IH’s R&D people will probably have worked through a number of designs in intensive parallel testing regimes, and the latest units – the ones that will go on sale or more likely be offered for lease at some point – could be very much more advanced.

          • Buck

            49R,

            this issue was a point of discussion here on ECW about 3 months ago as it was something Rossi had just brought up on JONP. I took Rossi at his word.

          • GreenWin

            Interesting Tech’s BBall losing streak began about the same time they attacked Pons & Fleischmann. Karma, or just a lousy BBall team? Either way geeks don’t jump.

    • Freethinker

      I am amazed with you people complaining about what “Rossi says”.

      Read his blog, or derivative thereof, at own risk. Do understand that the blog is his, and he writes all kinds of things there, like his worries, his desires, his hopes, sometimes his plans, and sometimes speculation or most of the times simple answers to peoples questions. At times he likely use the blog to his ends, but mostly it is simply a short answer channel.

      Many things Rossi has said has come to pass, one way or another, at one point in time or another. Many things has also failed to materialize.

      You cannot use the blog against him in the perpetual accusation of scam. It is your own fault you take it so literately.

      My bet is as follows:
      There will be a report, within a month. There will be a semi-public demo for a select group of people, somewhat coinciding with that report. Possibly there will be announcements from Industrial Heat and the customer (Duke Energy?) at the same time.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, the “Rossi only says” meme is getting pretty frayed around the edges. What have the people who keep saying “Rossi only says,” DONE? Nothing but complained.

        • Daniel Maris

          Well effectively it is now Rossi and IH say isn’t it? IH can hardly pretend they aren’t connected to Rossi’s statements about what is going on with E Cat development.

          • psi2u2

            Exactly, which goes to the point that Rossi has DONE plenty, by any reasonable estimation.

      • blanco69

        Understood. However one must take care not to disregatd all the Rossi says that haven”t come to pass, ( and there are many ) and focus only on the Rossi says that can be rationalised by our own hopes and dreams. You should never completely close the door on skeptism until there’s an ecat powering your life.

      • Fortyniner

        We can probably expect to see a lot more of this kind of contrived negativism from unfamiliar and grammatically-challenged commenters as we get closer to some very important developments.

        The shills don’t have a lot to go with any more, but that won’t stop them trying to bash the cr*p out of all the old familiar refrains in a (hopefully) final attempt to muddy the water beforehand.

        • Omega Z

          I understand that your anxious. How do you think they feel???

          Everyday that their not building products, their losing money. Actually not only losing money, But Spending Money.
          I’m sure their anxiety level far exceeds ours & their doing as much as possible as fast as possible.

          We also need to keep in mind that with people’s disposition about CF/LENR that a false start roll out would be disastrous for the technology and the E-cat is pretty much worthless until you have a product to put it in. It may even still be under development.

          It’s highly probable that a lot of things are going on behind closed doors. Announcing it before their ready serves no purpose other then it would be distracting, even time delaying. People having to talk to & explain things rather then working on getting the product ready for market. I’m sure the last thing their doing is intentionally delaying anything.

          I would like to see all nuclear plant building stopped as soon as LENR hits the market do to the forever hazard.
          But as far as wasted projects. It wont be wasted. Most if not all will be needed & used for their full life cycle. It’s going to take that long to transition. Billions & billions & billions of E-cats. Then it’ll be time to start over.

          • kdk

            “I would like to see all nuclear plant building stopped as soon as LENR hits the market do to the forever hazard.”

            Amen, there’s no good reason to use fission if you have cold fusion. It may have a lower energy density per mass fuel, but the lack of long lasting radioactive waste is clearly superior, not to mention not having to worry about meltdowns…

      • Ophelia Rump

        Bravo! Well spoken, well conceived.

  • kasom

    counting on what A.R. has said shortly before, he is focussed on the 1 MW HOT-cat!!

    So, if the working customer installation is indeed a 1 MW HOT-cat, it is new tech not the old blue container.

    That would really be a breaking news!

    I wish all the best fpor him, IH, us here and mankind!!

    • Ophelia Rump

      I could not imagine why he would test with anything but the best he has available.
      So I agree with you on this, I also think it will be some formalized version of the Hot-Cat. The original looked cobbled together. I expect the final version to look a little more manufactured and optimized. He must have excellent design engineers on his team.

      I expect it to be the Hot-Cat Plus. Containing all the engineering enhancements they were capable of, at the point in time when they finalized the design.

      We really do not know anything about the control system but I would bet that also got a finalizing makeover. Maybe a redesign by engineers of excellence, as opposed to the best Rossi could do.

      • Buck

        Ophelia,

        Rossi was clear that the TIP evaluation team was working with the most up-to-date design of the Hot-Cat..

        • Ophelia Rump

          Thank you Buck.

        • It was the most up to date design 8 or 9 months ago when testing began. This was probably also the design that was used to built another prototype 1MW unit to lease out, probably to an investor subsidiary, for ‘field’ testing. (This may be the ‘pilot’ plant we hope to learn more about soon).

          Since then though IH’s R&D people will probably have worked through a number of designs in intensive parallel testing regimes, and the latest units – the ones that will go on sale or more likely be offered for lease at some point – could be very much more advanced and also optimised for batch production.

          • Buck

            49R,

            this issue was a point of discussion here on ECW about 3 months ago as it was something Rossi had just brought up on JONP. I took Rossi at his word.

  • bitplayer

    Re the spate of completely ignorant skeptical comments; do we need to get out the fly swatter again?

    • Ophelia Rump

      If they are shills, then I like their style because whoever is paying them is throwing their money away on vacuous grunts of impatience and self indulgence.

    • Daniel Maris

      You mean censorship? If that’s what you mean, why don’t you say it – loud and proud!

      • Ophelia Rump

        Garbage is garbage. If you don’t throw it out, you are hoarding.
        I dislike censorship, but if a post is a taunt, it has no content. There is nothing to censor.

      • bitplayer

        I’m thinking back to when ecatworld was getting spillover from the rossiskepticsRus.com site that imploded right after the March ’13 report. Frank did his usual excellent job of filtering the truly useless posts. At the same time, I like to think that the rest of the community did a good job of calling out the skeptopaths to the point that they stopped having fun and went away.

        Sigh…

      • Omega Z

        umm, I understand what he is saying. There’s been a recent increase of certain types of posts. We have been expecting this haven’t we. As the Report date gets closer, Preemptive action. I expect more to come.

    • Omega Z

      bitplayer
      I’ve noticed the increase. Not surprised. Report day is getting close & their preparing to pounce on it. The comments of which you speak is just laying the ground work.

      Before the battle, you send in the pretend collaborators, saboteur’s & spies. We will see more of this.

  • Andy Kumar

    While waiting for the TIP, we should keep in mind that Rossi is a businessman and is used to making “forward looking” statements. We cannot really say that he is lying or stringing people along.

    I think Rossi has cashed his IP for a decent sum of $12M and now truly independent scientists are working on the cat in collaboration with Focardi’s family who owns the secret waveform. The TIP will be a scientific report. Commercial uses are decades away.

    • GreenWin

      Andy, care to cite your sources substantiating your last claim?? The Industrial Heat management and investors might be interested.

      • Omega Z

        I have Zero confidence in his statement. Rossi had the prize prior to inviting Focardi(For Cash) to prove his results wrong. I don’t understand someone stating this when we have words in print & video’s that prove Rossi & Focardi became very close friends. Ridiculous Me Thinks.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, please do share. Who has made you, Andy, the oracle of IH?

    • Bernie777

      It bothers me when people state how much Rossi has heen paid for his IP. The stated amount could be a small down payment if royalties are part of the contract, and I bet they are.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Decades away, then what are they going to do with the factory they just built?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      “Commercial uses are decades away.”

      ‘Decades’ from now, patents (if ever issued) will have expired. It didn’t take decades for the auto and airplane and the ecat will probably be much simpler. It didn’t take Rockefeller decades to displace whale oil. It didn’t take cell phones decades to bury MaBell.

      Remember, radical Islam is providing a nice tailwind.

      • Omega Z

        All I can do is go by what Focardi stated in a Video interview.
        That the secret was Rossi’s & he Didn’t Want to know it. Personally, I think if Rossi didn’t share that with Focardi, Focardi had a very good Idea. He was Brilliant enough to figure it out. Likely he didn’t want people hounding him to tell them what it was. That’s what I would do. Focardi also stated that Rossi had a working device before he became involved. Rossi just wanted him to verify the excess heat or disprove it. Was there an Error in measurements or what? Focardi couldn’t disprove it.

        As to the wave form, That would be in the hardware(Control Box) and controlled by the software. Rossi was hands on. There would be no secret to this. Probably not hard for someone in the field to figure out. Thus the Reason Rossi was so protective as to people looking inside the Box. Components involved would give it away.

        If you were to say Focardi was Instrumental in Improving the E-cat, I would agree 1000%. I think he saved Rossi years of research. I think he was very instrumental in developing a theory that led to major improvements, Primarily in it’s control. But to say this could be kept secret is silly. I can’t see Rossi building a control box not knowing what components he installed & exactly what they do & what purpose they serve. In fact, these things would be fundamental in advancing the device.

        Question is do I believe a person with a friend of a friend of the family(which is 4 steps away) or Focardi’s statements.
        The Problem is when people see $$$ signs, Everyone wants their share. Even when it isn’t theirs. They will say anything. They get Crazy.
        People talk of a Trillion dollar Industry, yet Rossi see’s $20 Million. That is the reality. But people only see the Trillions. I had employees that thought like that. Greed knows no boundaries.

        NOTE: People don’t despise Theories. Only those who put Theory above the facts. Facts beat Theory. But Theory in context is good. It’s a tool for understanding facts which allow us to improve on them.

  • Andy Kumar

    While waiting for the TIP, we should keep in mind that Rossi is a businessman and is used to making “forward looking” statements. We cannot really say that he is lying or stringing people along.

    I think Rossi has cashed his IP for a decent sum of $12M and now truly independent scientists are working on the cat in collaboration with Focardi’s family who owns the secret waveform. The TIP will be a scientific report. Commercial uses are decades away.

    • GreenWin

      Andy, care to cite your sources substantiating your last claim?? The Industrial Heat management and investors might be interested.

      • Omega Z

        I have Zero confidence in his statement. Rossi had the prize prior to inviting Focardi(For Cash) to prove his results wrong. I don’t understand someone stating this when we have words in print & video’s that prove Rossi & Focardi became very close friends. Ridiculous Me Thinks.

        • Andy Kumar

          Omega,
          When Rossi asked Focardi to prove him wrong, he was asking him to find any weaknesses in his proposed plan of research like when you get your PhD research plan approved by a committee.
          If Rossi was already getting the heat, no need to prove it wrong or right. Rossi had Edisonian intuition and Focardi had the deep academic theory that many people so despise.

          • GreenWin

            Andy, care to cite your sources for your latest claim re: “deep academic theory that many people so despise”? Your earlier answer, “Let’s just say a friend of a friend… etc” is hearsay. Not very rigorous for a CalTech grad.

          • Andy Kumar

            Green, (as old buddies, we are on first name terms)

            Let us not drag the good name of Caltech in the mud. Opinions, facts and any spin thereon is strictly mine. Caltech will disown me if they found out I frequent these sites 🙂

            On a lighter side, Caltech Beavers give new meaning to the old phrase, “Win one for the Gipper”. My daughters had a good laugh when I showed them this.
            http://tinyurl.com/4nmklhp

          • GreenWin

            Interesting Tech’s BBall losing streak began about the same time they attacked Pons & Fleischmann. Karma, or just a lousy BBall team? Either way geeks don’t jump.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I think he would know best if he is despised for his theory. Point goes to Andy. (Premis for decision: Theories may be despised, but only the theorist can be the recipient of the despise.)

          • Omega Z

            All I can do is go by what Focardi stated in a Video interview.
            That the secret was Rossi’s & he Didn’t Want to know it. Personally, I think if Rossi didn’t share that with Focardi, Focardi had a very good Idea. He was Brilliant enough to figure it out. Likely he didn’t want people hounding him to tell them what it was. That’s what I would do. Focardi also stated that Rossi had a working device before he became involved. Rossi just wanted him to verify the excess heat or disprove it. Was there an Error in measurements or what? Focardi couldn’t disprove it.

            As to the wave form, That would be in the hardware(Control Box) and controlled by the software. Rossi was hands on. There would be no secret to this. Probably not hard for someone in the field to figure out. Thus the Reason Rossi was so protective as to people looking inside the Box. Components involved would give it away.

            If you were to say Focardi was Instrumental in Improving the E-cat, I would agree 1000%. I think he saved Rossi years of research. I think he was very instrumental in developing a theory that led to major improvements, Primarily in it’s control. But to say this could be kept secret is silly. I can’t see Rossi building a control box not knowing what components he installed & exactly what they do & what purpose they serve. In fact, these things would be fundamental in advancing the device.

            Question is do I believe a person with a friend of a friend of the family(which is 4 steps away) or Focardi’s statements.
            The Problem is when people see $$$ signs, Everyone wants their share. Even when it isn’t theirs. They will say anything. They get Crazy.
            People talk of a Trillion dollar Industry, yet Rossi see’s $20 Million. That is the reality. But people only see the Trillions. I had employees that thought like that. Greed knows no boundaries.

            NOTE: People don’t despise Theories. Only those who put Theory above the facts. Facts beat Theory. But Theory in context is good. It’s a tool for understanding facts which allow us to improve on them.

      • psi2u2

        Yes, please do share. Who has made you, Andy, the oracle of IH?

      • Andy Kumar

        Greenwin, Let us just say that a friend of friend worked with Focardi some twenty years ago. They stayed in professional contact. Rossi and Focardi had something but not quite “as advertised”. How close to commercial? No one knows. Focardi and Rossi had private falling out just like Rossi and DGT parted their ways publicly. Rossi’s secret sauce and Focardi’s waveform are like the ying-yang. You cannot have one without the other.

        For the record, I think Navy has done excellent work to make low power LENR a credible phenomenon. I wish Rossi was less secretive but he wants to go the market route. I hope most people here realize that excess heat with a COP of 3 can be verified in a high school physics lab in a day without disclosing any trade secrets.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      It bothers me when people state how much Rossi has heen paid for his IP. The stated amount could be a small down payment if royalties are part of the contract, and I bet they are.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Rossi has nothing to gain from anyone to whome he answers questions about what he is doing. The wheel has gone from his hands to Tom Dardens. Darden founded Cherokee and is President of Industrial Heat. Rossi is just being generous and letting people know what his latest interests are.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      “Commercial uses are decades away.”

      ‘Decades’ from now, patents (if ever issued) will have expired. It didn’t take decades for the auto and airplane and the ecat will probably be much simpler. It didn’t take Rockefeller decades to displace whale oil. It didn’t take cell phones decades to bury MaBell.

      Remember, radical Islam is providing a nice tailwind.

  • Bernie777

    When will we hear from IH? If the test is positive enough we should hear from them shortly after publication. Agreed?

    • Ophelia Rump

      We will hear from IH when IH is ready to sell product.
      I seriously doubt that the results of the test will have any impact on that.
      We may get a teaser to go with along with the paper, to peak interest.
      I doubt they will dilute the impact of the report by making a simultaneous big announcement.

      If they are ready for production, meaning fully tooled, manned, and have materials inventory. Then I would expect to hear the big announcement about being in production and opening sales, when they think the news of the report has reached the peak of it’s impact, to capitalize on the momentum. Or it could be months.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Rossi has said that there will be a press conference as soon as the 3rd party report is published. By the way, his last comment on JoNP dates from June 11th – maybe something’s up?

        • Ophelia Rump

          Thank you, I will look forward to that!

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    When will we hear from IH? If the test is positive enough we should hear from them shortly after publication. Agreed?

    • Ophelia Rump

      I seriously doubt that the results of the test will have any impact Industrial Heat making any announcements.

      The only question in my mind is exactly how mind boggling will the results be.
      Will they be COP 10, or COP 100 crazy high power differential.
      Much will be revealed by the report.

      IH speaks in whispers in marble halls. It is conceivable they might not make any public announcement and only do business to business communications.
      That has been their behavior so far.
      Maybe Darden will give an interview or two in some financial press.

      • Guru

        I fear that will their way. This way is most unscrupulous to the Planet Earth.

        Without shock & awe style clear loud message/press conference, tens of thousands entities will continue to build and invest into yesterday obsolete technologies, which few months/years later will clearly visible worthless as even worst business/investment analysts will understand. Scale of this waste is 3 to 6 billion USD per DAY. So continuing in such behaviour is extremely unscrupulous for all involved folks. It is like have cure for all types of cancer and not told about this to world and only doing some “visits for selected person” and “talk to 3 other business entities” etc.

        • Ophelia Rump

          That is one way of looking at it, another way is that they will run this down the path of least resistance so that hostile actions are near to impossible.

          That would be good for mankind, providing the plan is to put this in the hands of everyone, and not for the ultimate financial benefit of a few who would suck the world dry for the sake of their own over-inflated sense of self worth. The handful of planet sized ticks are far too bloated already, we are at a point where the mass of the parasitic rich is greater than the rest of humanity in a financial sense. We must believe there are good people among the rich, and that perhaps this time all of humanity might benefit.
          This could truly be a revolution, We must hope that even among the rich only a select few would would suck the world to a dry husk for their own sanguine pleasure.

          Regarding your fears of waste, it is both a noble an humble sentiment to be averse to the waste of precious resources. No matter what day you wake up to realize the world has change, yesterday you were relatively misguided. I think this is a moving target and there is no escaping the losses which come from change. I am not so sure the world could handle as instant a turnover as perhaps you are hoping for. The world will not mobilize as one and turn like marching troops toward a new power source. I fear that if they tried it would be chaos and pandamonium. China could do that, I doubt the rest of the world could come close organizationally.

          Tom Darden is the General for this revolution, pray he is a good man.

        • Omega Z

          Guru

          You find a cure for cancer.
          It will take years to build the facilities for use in this cure.
          It will take years to disseminate the knowledge & train Doctors & technicians to implement this cure.

          Do You discontinue the current treatments.
          Or do you continue them until the new treatment is available.
          Answer: You will continue as usual implementing the new treatment as it becomes available. First at just a few facilities gradually spreading.

          The LENR transition will take decades to implement.
          Nuclear Plants about ready to fire up. Will continue. Only those in early stages will be stopped. The same for most fossil Plants. As with solar & wind. All of these systems will operate most or all of their natural life-cycle’s.

          • Guru

            A new nuclear powerplant is usually build 5-7 years. In some heavy corrupt countries as is our it take 11 or more years.

            With such attitude as Rossi/IH, here human society will 3-4 years waste PRECIOUS sources and build old fashioned nuclear powerplant, after that they will 175th “private carfully selected party” (or something what dreamed Mr. Inventor) allowed to saw working LENR hardware and decide that 20 billions USD already sunk into now dead project is waste.

            So You are partially right and partially it will different.

          • Omega Z

            I understand that your anxious. How do you think they feel???

            Everyday that their not building products, their losing money. Actually not only losing money, But Spending Money.
            I’m sure their anxiety level far exceeds ours & their doing as much as possible as fast as possible.

            We also need to keep in mind that with people’s disposition about CF/LENR that a false start roll out would be disastrous for the technology and the E-cat is pretty much worthless until you have a product to put it in. It may even still be under development.

            It’s highly probable that a lot of things are going on behind closed doors. Announcing it before their ready serves no purpose other then it would be distracting, even time delaying. People having to talk to & explain things rather then working on getting the product ready for market. I’m sure the last thing their doing is intentionally delaying anything.

            I would like to see all nuclear plant building stopped as soon as LENR hits the market do to the forever hazard.
            But as far as wasted projects. It wont be wasted. Most if not all will be needed & used for their full life cycle. It’s going to take that long to transition. Billions & billions & billions of E-cats. Then it’ll be time to start over.

          • Guru

            No, a lot of assets in half of life cycle will not used to end of life cycle because not competitive (costs). Even when old powerplant will sell elektricity for free, it will not competitive because of transmission systém fees. ontainer ships with diesel will not competitive against LENR etc. etc. Old industries will lower prices sub breakeven levels and after few quartals they will exhausted from reserve funds (because lossess).

            Some paradoxes may occur: No one investor will willing to invest into for example Brasilian offshore deep water rigs (for oil) because breakeven level is around 90 USD per barrel. So after some 3-4 years may be insufficient supply of oil because no new investment into new drills, so after some time even with LNR may oil price again go up (because not enough oil supply).

            Simply nobody want invest into dying sector.

            There will hundreds millions of HephaHeat heaters sooner then hundreds millions of E-Cats.

          • Omega Z

            Your assuming we can replace everything in a short time.
            It will take 30 years or more to do that.
            You assume E-cat power plants will be cheap. They will cost the same or more them Fossil plants. Only the energy they produce will be cheaper.
            If we have individual E-cats, You over value the output of an E-cat. Every home will need at least (5) or more.
            Your thinking hundreds of millions. It will require somewhere around 50 Billion E-cats to supply the world.
            Individuals only use 1/3rd of the energy in the world. 2/3rds is for Business & industry.

            If people want cheaper energy costs, the best way to provide that is to have small power plants setup at each city. If you put all this in individual homes, It will cost more then you pay now. The hardware is not cheap & Hugh demand will only force those prices higher.

          • Guru

            No, No and No.

            You use old way of thinking: You dream about big old fossil powerplants will be replace/refurbished by E-Cats. This is very low probability. Big centralized powerplants will die, bankrupt and after bankrupt they will in Zombie mode for another few years. These will replaced by individual home generators, maybe Rossi tech maybe not Rossi’s. Businessess will have their own moderate 50 kW – few MW generators. Businessess with old tech will not competitive and out of business faster then manufacturers will build new tech generators.
            You are narrowly focused to E-Cat. There already is more new technologies. Buy HephaHeat water heater will faster way then wait for your dreamed “new small powerplant at every city”.
            And this transformation will not take 30 years. It will faster. Coal mining companies will bankrupt in 3-6 years timeframe. Old powerplant companies in 6-9 years timeframe. After that in Zombie mode – with state subsidies.

          • Omega Z

            If you individualize everything, the number of e-cats needed increase exponentially. A 10Kw E-cat is nothing. My N-gas cook stove produces about 30% more heat then an E-cat.

            I have a small home About 1K sq-ft. I need at least 2 E-cats just to heat or cool it. Well, not cool it. The heat absorption chiller would cost as much as a car.(There about the size of a side by side Refrigerator for the main unit) Likewise for an electrical generating system and additional E-cats to produce it… The technology for private use just isn’t ready yet.
            A 30 year transition is conservative.

            A Good Bench Mark is Wind & Solar. 2050 to transition “most” of the system over. You just under estimate the scale of the task. Basically were starting from scratch. Everything has yet to be designed.
            3 to 6 years just to start building factories.

          • bachcole

            Of course you are calculating and imagining based upon the size and power of E-Cats as they are now. Once millions of engineers and scientists worldwide focus upon LENR+, who knows what the size, power, and cost of the units will be. Who knows what metals will be discovered to work, especially once we know how it works. Heck, when we know how it works, there may be ceramics that will go to much higher temperatures.

          • Omega Z

            I fully expect Larger scale E-cats. Possibly 100Kw units. But solving 1 problem just creates others, so they will be used according to task. Not scale. In many cases, you may find smaller is better. It allows for output modulation. Also, You can change individual Reactor cores with out a complete shutdown. That prevents the service tech from charging you for a jump start or having to invest 1K’s in a backup generator. 🙂

            While following this saga I have read of another metal of interest which would lead to higher temps, But costs substantially more then nickel. However, again that would be niche market. Nickel temps are more then adequate. The turbines have their own heat limits.

            We have to keep in mind that the E-cat is just a heating element similar to what you find in an electric water heater. A small part of a whole. The Whole has yet to be designed & built.
            Most haven’t grasped this part yet. They let their excitement get a head of reality. It’s positive or negative. All they see at the moment is the positive. The negatives haven’t hit home yet And there are many.

            Rossi has dropped a couple hints. You can connect your e-cat inline with your present heating system.”It will supplement, Not replace your present heating system” I believe you live in Colorado. You will need at least 2 e-cats for heat.

            Rossi mentioned a 1Mw E-cat boiler with 72 reactors. a couple of these are backup in case some should quit working. Umm, Sounds like the 10Kw reactor would be producing about 15Kw in this system.
            So I agree, Improvements will change things, But Ultimately, I don’t see any big changes in the transition at this point. I claim caveats.

          • kdk

            “I would like to see all nuclear plant building stopped as soon as LENR hits the market do to the forever hazard.”

            Amen, there’s no good reason to use fission if you have cold fusion. It may have a lower energy density per mass fuel, but the lack of long lasting radioactive waste is clearly superior, not to mention not having to worry about meltdowns…

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Rossi has said that there will be a press conference as soon as the 3rd party report is published. By the way, his last comment on JoNP dates from June 11th – maybe something’s up?

        • Ophelia Rump

          Thank you, I will look forward to that!

  • GreenWin

    Andy, care to cite your sources for your latest claim re: “deep academic theory that many people so despise”? Your earlier answer, “Let’s just say a friend of a friend… etc” is hearsay. Not very rigorous for a CalTech grad.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I think he would know best if he is despised. Point goes to Andy.

  • Ophelia Rump

    That is one way of looking at it, another way is that they will run this down the path of least resistance so that hostile actions are near to impossible.

    That would be good for mankind, providing the plan is to put this in the hands of everyone, and not for the ultimate financial benefit of a few who would suck the world dry for the sake of their own over-inflated sense of self worth. The planet sized ticks are far too bloated already, we are at a point where the mass of the parasitic rich is greater than the rest of humanity in a financial sense. We must believe there are good people among the rich, and that perhaps this time all of humanity might benefit.
    This could truly be a revolution.

  • Omega Z

    Guru

    You find a cure for cancer.
    It will take years to build the facilities for use in this cure.
    It will take years to disseminate the knowledge & train Doctors & technicians to implement this cure.

    Do You discontinue the current treatments.
    Or do you continue them until the new treatment is available.
    Answer: You will continue as usual implementing the new treatment as it becomes available. First at just a few facilities gradually spreading.

    The LENR transition will take decades to implement.
    Nuclear Plants about ready to fire up. Will continue. Only those in early stages will be stopped. The same for most fossil Plants. As with solar & wind. All of these systems will operate most or all of their natural life-cycle’s.

  • Omega Z

    Your assuming we can replace everything in a short time.
    It will take 30 years or more to do that.
    You assume E-cat power plants will be cheap. They will cost the same or more them Fossil plants. Only the energy they produce will be cheaper.
    If we have individual E-cats, You over value the output of an E-cat. Every home will need at least (5) or more.
    Your thinking hundreds of millions. It will require somewhere around 50 Billion E-cats to supply the world.
    Individuals only use 1/3rd of the energy in the world. 2/3rds is for Business & industry.

    If people want cheaper energy costs, the best way to provide that is to have small power plants setup at each city. If you put all this in individual homes, It will cost more then you pay now. The hardware is not cheap & Hugh demand will only force those prices higher.

    • bachcole

      Of course you are calculating and imagining based upon the size and power of E-Cats as they are now. Once millions of engineers and scientists worldwide focus upon LENR+, who knows what the size, power, and cost of the units will be. Who knows what metals will be discovered to work, especially once we know how it works. Heck, when we know how it works, there may be ceramics that will go to much higher temperatures.

      • Omega Z

        I fully expect Larger scale E-cats. Possibly 100Kw units. But solving 1 problem just creates others, so they will be used according to task. Not scale. In many cases, you may find smaller is better. It allows for output modulation. Also, You can change individual Reactor cores with out a complete shutdown. That prevents the service tech from charging you for a jump start or having to invest 1K’s in a backup generator. 🙂

        While following this saga I have read of another metal of interest which would lead to higher temps, But costs substantially more then nickel. However, again that would be niche market. Nickel temps are more then adequate. The turbines have their own heat limits.

        We have to keep in mind that the E-cat is just a heating element similar to what you find in an electric water heater. A small part of a whole. The Whole has yet to be designed & built.
        Most haven’t grasped this part yet. They let their excitement get a head of reality. It’s positive or negative. All they see at the moment is the positive. The negatives haven’t hit home yet And there are many.

        Rossi has dropped a couple hints. You can connect your e-cat inline with your present heating system.”It will supplement, Not replace your present heating system” I believe you live in Colorado. You will need at least 2 e-cats for heat.

        Rossi mentioned a 1Mw E-cat boiler with 72 reactors. a couple of these are backup in case some should quit working. Umm, Sounds like the 10Kw reactor would be producing about 15Kw in this system.
        So I agree, Improvements will change things, But Ultimately, I don’t see any big changes in the transition at this point. I claim caveats.

  • Omega Z

    If you individualize everything, the number of e-cats needed increase exponentially. A 10Kw E-cat is nothing. My N-gas cook stove produces about 30% more heat then an E-cat.

    I have a small home About 1K sq-ft. I need at least 2 E-cats just to heat or cool it. Well, not cool it. The heat absorption chiller would cost as much as a car.(There about the size of a side by side Refrigerator for the main unit) Likewise for an electrical generating system and additional E-cats to produce it… The technology for private use just isn’t ready yet.
    A 30 year transition is conservative.

    A Good Bench Mark is Wind & Solar. 2050 to transition “most” of the system over. You just under estimate the scale of the task. Basically were starting from scratch. Everything has yet to be designed.
    3 to 6 years just to start building factories.