Defkalion Update

I’d like to thank ECW reader Len Fusioneer for sharing this comment which I thought should be in its own post

I wrote to Defkalion:

Good day,

I am interested in your company’s status and don’t trust the internet to provide accurate information.

I am a LENR researcher and have recently learned of your possible connection with Phonon. I live in Vancouver and wish to contact you and Phonon.

Your Vancouver phone number has been disconnected. Does this mean your company has left Canada? Been dissolved?

thank you

Their response:

Dear Sir,
In response to your email of the 7th July 2014. Firstly we like to thank you for the interest that you have shown in our company and technology.

Please be advised that we are still in Canada and a Canadian company.
We have relocated our office and laboratory.

The reason being that we are at the final stage of completing the
pre-industrial version of our Hyperion Energy source unit. We estimate that this will be done by the end of summer. Once we have completed this stage then we will again open-up for
presentations / demonstrations.

Regarding the co-operation with Phonon from Seattle, we are going to do
Joint venture Application R&D together in the very near future.

Thanking You

Best Regards

  • Barbierir

    I can’t take them seriously, they haven’t show any independent report despite many promises and the only public demo turned out to be rigged.

  • Gerard McEk

    That looks promising, but that was also the case a few month ago. Let us hope they are really on to something. Anyway if they have a industrial partner, than Defkalion must have showed them something substantial.

    • If they deliver something, what happened with Luca Gamberale is a mystery.

      • Sanjeev

        It is very much possible that Defkalion Europe’s analysis was faulty or had some malicious intent. I do not think that things are settled in the case of DGT.

        I was amazed to see skeptics automatically assuming that the debunking report by DE was true, they wouldn’t have done so if it were supporting the excess energy claims.

        We know that in scientific experiments its not possible to prove a negative, still everyone believes that if a single person could not replicate something, it must be false in all cases. This is not science. I was amazed to see even lenr supporters blindly believing the DE report, without raising a single objection.

        If you are a skeptic, you must be skeptical of all claims until proven conclusively, else you are just biased.

        • the report of Gamberale says what it says, that (according to his measurement) it is possible to simulate good COP with manipulation of water flow.

          More troubling is the reported opposition to calorimetry improvement.

          Much more troubling is the fact that they did not answer any of his questions.

          That fact, their lack of any response, either public or private, mean that either they don’t want to show it work, or they cannot.

          Basically if they deliver something that really works, it will raise more question than it will close.

          On that point, at last (it is not so frequent for them), they follow the common sense… of course they made hundred of mistakes before, like assuming manipulation in the electric circuit that gamberale ruled out, or concluding without the least evidence from the sweat factor, or from unknown water flow… Even concluding from the possibility of manipulation that gamberale reported in april, but leaked much before to Cimpy&al, was not rational…

          The “possibilities” just matched my conclusion (considering harsh critics) at this time, that it was a pony show, positive, but not a third party test…

          What allow concluding is the fact that DGT did not answer seriously to those serious attack…

          This is not definitive, but nearly.

          If DGT refused to answer to Gamberale, just to push him out, is that ethical? If Gamberale works for another company, this is not coherent with his current situation…

          Something nasty happened, there is the Occam razor hypothesis, and some twisted hairs possibilities.

          Only a test where the independent tester have hand on the plumbing and installed the pipes and wire can be trusted.

          For long I trusted Nelson’s test, who was “hand-on”, but it seems he did not install the plumbing… did he control the water tap? if yes, the Gamberale spoted trick cannot be used… So one can assume the COP is around 3, and that DGT simply tried to exaggerate the COP.

  • Gerard McEk

    That looks promising, but that was also the case a few month ago. Let us hope they are really on to something. Anyway if they have a industrial partner, than Defkalion must have showed them something substantial.

    • If they deliver something, what happened with Luca Gamberale is a mystery.

      • Sanjeev

        It is very much possible that Defkalion Europe’s analysis was faulty or had some malicious intent. I do not think that things are settled in the case of DGT.

        I was amazed to see skeptics automatically assuming that the debunking report by DE was true, they wouldn’t have done so if it were supporting the excess energy claims.

        We know that in scientific experiments its not possible to prove a negative, still everyone believes that if a single person could not replicate something, it must be false in all cases. This is not science. I was amazed to see even lenr supporters blindly believing the DE report, without raising a single objection.

        If you are a skeptic, you must be skeptical of all claims until proven conclusively, else you are just biased.

        • bachcole

          To disbelieve has just as much suggestive power as to believe. This is the every essence of the problem with the epistemology of the skeptopaths.

        • Barbierir

          Defkalion could have simply answered to the points raised by the report or could have offered to make a new test, instead they issued an official statement that said absolutely nothing. This is as getting caught red-handed as you can get.

        • the report of Gamberale says what it says, that (according to his measurement) it is possible to simulate good COP with manipulation of water flow.

          More troubling is the reported opposition to calorimetry improvement.

          Much more troubling is the fact that they did not answer any of his questions.

          That fact, their lack of any response, either public or private, mean that either they don’t want to show it work, or they cannot.

          Basically if they deliver something that really works, it will raise more question than it will close.

          On that point, at last (it is not so frequent for them), skeptics follow the common sense… of course they made hundred of mistakes before, like assuming manipulation in the electric circuit that gamberale ruled out, or concluding without the least evidence from the sweat factor, or from unknown water flow… Even concluding from the possibility of manipulation that gamberale reported in april, but leaked much before to Cimpy&al, was not rational…

          The “possibilities” just matched my conclusion (considering harsh critics) at this time, that it was a pony show, positive, but not a third party test…

          What allow concluding is the fact that DGT did not answer seriously to those serious attack…

          This is not definitive, but nearly.

          If DGT refused to answer to Gamberale, just to push him out, is that ethical? If Gamberale works for another company, this is not coherent with his current situation…

          Something nasty happened, there is the Occam razor hypothesis, and some twisted hairs possibilities.

          Only a test where the independent tester have hand on the plumbing and installed the pipes and wire can be trusted.

          For long I trusted Nelson’s test, who was “hand-on”, but it seems he did not install the plumbing… did he control the water tap? if yes, the Gamberale spoted trick cannot be used… So one can assume the COP is around 3, and that DGT simply tried to exaggerate the COP.

  • GreenWin

    Hi Barbie, would you help us all by citing your proof that the Defkalion public demo “turned out to be rigged.” Thank you.

  • Jamie Sibley

    Has anyone near Vancouver gone to UBC and taken a look around their lab building. ?

    Suite 204, 2389 Health Sciences Mall (UBC)

    Their website says “our offices in Vancouver were moved in the same building with our Laboratories in Vancouver”

    I assume this means that their Homer Street office is now vacant.

    Edit; This guy went there: http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/ManningIE110.pdf

    • David Daggett says he visited them in Athens.

  • David Daggett says he visited them in Athens.

  • Bernie777

    I do not see a name at the end of that email form Defkalion, wonder why?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I do not see a name at the end of that email form Defkalion, wonder why?

  • bachcole

    Not very reassuring for me.

  • bachcole

    Not very reassuring for me.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Selling their one golden egg, or a knockoff thereof.

    I

    • Obvious

      I wonder what the price is on the shell reactor.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Fire sale, I would think.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Selling their one golden egg, or a knockoff thereof.

    They cannot make it work, they can either sell the Rossi Reactor and waveform technology, or a cheap knockoff. Maybe they could make a living selling lab reactors without the core.

    They might use the money to fund their own effort to find a working catalyst.

    Once the Hot-Cat hits the market, their IP will be worthless, since the Hot-Cat will be the working reference model.

    Beware of geeks bearing gifts.
    A man who would lie claiming that he has stolen his partner’s secret formula in an attempt to gain credibility, would sell you a reactor with parts missing, and keep the working one for himself.

    • Obvious

      I wonder what the price is on the shell reactor.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Fire sale, I would think.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    I don’t believe a Hyperion even exists. The only person to have even seen anything from Defkalion was Sterling Allan, and that appears to be the funky out of focus green machine they had a photo of attached to the Hyperion information release that looked like a 12 year old spent a few hours creating. Hyperion openly lied to everyone stating they were testing hundreds of models, when they later admitted was “exaggerated” in its entirety.

    They kicked me off their forums (remember those) for asking if a living soul could attest to the fact they even had an ecat type device.

    I think they are trying to position themselves for a share in a joint lawsuit against Patent office AND various responsible wealthier organizations (Nature Magazine, etc) for its promotion of Cold Fusion as Junk Science.

    They will never show us anything real, but as soon as the lawsuits start flying Defkalion will be at the front of the line with its hat out.

    OMG there are so many energy barriers being broken on many fronts. Next year will mark 20 years since mankind started heavily using the Internet (windows 95), although it took another decade to become popular.

    And even though I can never fulfill my dreams of setting pins at a bowling alley, or putting prices on the products with a pricing gun (in the old days every product was priced individually in every store with pricing “guns”), I am still glad to see science progress throughout the world as rapidly as does now.

    We see Rossi and LENR, Cracking Ammonia for Fuel, Blacklight Power, HCAT, and a hundred ways to get Instant Hydrogen from water…. The traveling freedom on roads and oceans will appear,

    I just want it to happen. Will my next “sailboat” require sails or a high speed electric motor that runs on seawater or poop?

    • you forget Nelson who worked on a R5 reactor.
      however the question is if he was victim of the same trick with water flow.
      The numerous problems that Defkalion claimed with boiling water and glycolized water maye be caused by their need to trick…

      Nelson test was just a preliminary test to know if further testing was useful.
      Defkalion did not accept their “commercial” proposal of test, either because of money or because it would have raised the problems that gamberale found.

      the occam razor explanation is that it does not work…
      more optimistic hypothesis call for improbable plots, by DGT or gamberale.

      • Broncobet

        A broken clock is right twice a day I couldn’t resist(I’m quoting you of course),of course it doesn’t work but high marks to you for the integrity to say it.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Choose the seawater model!

    • Omega Z

      Umm, So your trying to decide if you’ll have a Sailboat or a Motorboat. 🙂

  • you forget Nelson who worked on a R5 reactor.
    however the question is if he was victim of the same trick with water flow.
    The numerous problems that Defkalion claimed with boiling water and glycolized water maye be caused by their need to trick…

    Nelson test was just a preliminary test to know if further testing was useful.
    Defkalion did not accept their “commercial” proposal of test, either because of money or because it would have raised the problems that gamberale found.

    the occam razor explanation is that it does not work…
    more optimistic hypothesis call for improbable plots, by DGT or gamberale.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Choose the seawater model!

  • GreenWin

    Thanks to Barbieri for links to Luca Gamberale’s report and Mats Lewans’ comments. Something smells rotten, especially since Gamberale accepted DKT stock and apparently violated an NDA. Further muddying waters is Gamberale has since set up a new company with himself as CEO called LD-Brane, Milan:

    ” R&D in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). LENR is a
    most promising powerful source of energy, safe, clean an cheap. It has
    the potential to supply humanity of heat, electricity and fresh water
    for the next decades. What is still missing is a full understanding of
    the physical principles at the basis of the reactions and an efficient
    and reliable industrial implementation. LD-Brane has a scientific
    programme for the experimental and theoretical study of LENR and for the
    realization of prototypes for the production of energy running using
    LENR. LD-Brane participates to the research program of the most
    prominent research centers in Italy and Europe, both public and private.”
    LD-Brane overview

    With this personal investment, and the shady history of how DGT appropriated Rossi’s “secret” catalyst – Gamberale’s opinion looks unreliable. LD-Brane has yet to disclose the “prominent research centers” it is working with. But there are some indications that Dr. Gamberale has tapped former employer Pirelli & C S.p.A research and development. http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2014/04/30/pneumatici-a-fusione-fredda/

    • Mr. Moho

      You forgot Franco Cappiello’s statements that he won’t invest in LENR anymore for the time being.

      Google translation:
      http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nextme.it%2Fscienza%2Fenergia%2F7700-fusione-fredda-intervista-cappiello-defkalion-europe&edit-text=

      FC: Regarding investments I ended up here. I do not have any intention of investing in LENR for one simple reason: I understand that it will take at least another 15 years of serious, repeat and serious research and development, not to the “Defkalion,” and I do not have time to wait 15 years.

      • GreenWin

        Mr. Moho, thanks for this. Cappielli is now in the “footwear” industry. It may be best to put this lot on an episode of Family Feud and create a musical out of the hijinks. I have read most of the DGT technical documents which appear to be generally in line with experiments demonstrating surface plasmon polarition excitation and elliptical H1 electron orbits. Said orbit, not dissimilar to Mills’ n/132 plausibly generates a virt neutron at a standing wave function. From there… we can create new physics. 🙂

        • GreenWin

          I will add something that our friend Buck here likely understands. Intrigue and subterfuge for personal/sovereign gain to control this technology makes a laser-painted target. The whole world can read it.

        • Broncobet

          Sure

  • GreenWin

    Thanks to Barbieri for links to Luca Gamberale’s report and Mats Lewans’ comments. Something smells rotten, especially since Gamberale accepted DKT stock and apparently violated an NDA. Further muddying waters is Gamberale has since set up a new company with himself as CEO called LD-Brane, Milan:

    ” R&D in the field of LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). LENR is a
    most promising powerful source of energy, safe, clean an cheap. It has
    the potential to supply humanity of heat, electricity and fresh water
    for the next decades. What is still missing is a full understanding of
    the physical principles at the basis of the reactions and an efficient
    and reliable industrial implementation. LD-Brane has a scientific
    programme for the experimental and theoretical study of LENR and for the
    realization of prototypes for the production of energy running using
    LENR. LD-Brane participates to the research program of the most
    prominent research centers in Italy and Europe, both public and private.”
    LD-Brane overview

    With this personal investment, and the shady history of how DGT appropriated Rossi’s “secret” catalyst – Gamberale’s opinion looks unreliable. LD-Brane has yet to disclose the “prominent research centers” it is working with. But there are some indications that Dr. Gamberale has tapped former employer Pirelli & C S.p.A research and development. http://ocasapiens-dweb.blogautore.repubblica.it/2014/04/30/pneumatici-a-fusione-fredda/

  • Len Fusioneer

    I took a trip out to UBC today, to see what I could see: not much. There is no sign of their name anywhere and perhaps never was. Looking through the glass beside the (locked, of course) door to their suite I could see partially dismantled plumbing equipment and “stuff” on a work bench. Miscellaneous stationary scattered on desks etc. If they left permanently, they didn’t clean up.

    I talked with a neighbour who said there was almost never anyone there except occasional group visits. They had a receptionist working mostly alone for a while but she’s gone now. I guess that they are still paying the rent but I don’t think that it’s really any of my business.

    I hope you folks understand that I am not making any judgement and, in fact, hope they are successful in our field of interest.

  • Len Fusioneer

    Defkalion’s website has been “suspended”…

    • GreenWin

      So has the ecatnews site. Maybe they’re both dead beats. Can’t trust the faceless.

  • GreenWin

    So has the ecatnews site. Maybe they’re both dead beats. Can’t trust the faceless.

  • Broncobet

    Would you guys be happy if it turned out that LENR or CF was indeed real but that it took fifteen years and a hundred million dollars, with major universities and national labs doing research,yielding a product that didn’t pollute but cost a lot more than solar cells?

  • Man

    Just clownerie from these “Defkocones” of Defkalion, like Rossi said.

  • Johnny English
  • Len Fusioneer

    For the sake of completeness (and because someone asked), my daughter and I took transit to 1140 Homer St Vancouver today, and found suite 250. This was Defkalion’s previous address before they moved to UBC. The door was locked so we walked into the suite next door and talked to the guys there.
    They said a bailiff came by about 8 months ago, and after then, saw no one there. Once Defkalion moved out, the neighbours knocked out the adjoining wall, and took over the space.

  • gregha

    What happened to the web site??

  • Len Fusioneer

    In an email on July 15th they told me they will go completely silent until they have something to say… (Paraphrasing)