Rossi on Competition: Only Successful Replications — Ikegami-Pettersson, Ahern

There has been some discussion on the Journal of Nuclear Physics over the last couple of days about possible competition for Industrial Heat. Rossi has acknowledged that there is and will be competition, and has mentioned before that IH is expending a lot of time and energy in trying to replicate LENR systems that have patents in the public domain.

Today he made a comment in which he drew a distinction between real competitors and those he considers to be doing ‘clowneries’. And he worries that he will be tainted by the failures of others in the field:

I agree with you, but I am very worried of the wannabe competitors that now are presenting clowneries, like did Defkalion: they are very dangerous, because their failures will spray dirt on our work, as well as defkalion did: our enemies are eager to find another defkocones to say that all LENR world is a clownerie. Therefore I want to say sound and clear: we have replicated all the existing patents and know hows regarding the LENR existing in the world and no one of them has manifested a real heat excess with the following exceptions: Ikegami-Petterson system and Brian Ahern System. These are the only two systems that actually gave us evidence of a heat excess. All the other systems that we have reproduced ( and we have reproduced, with huge investments, all of the systems that have been proposed in all the world in the last 20 years, with particular attention on the experiments made in the last 4 years, that have been analyzed with extreme endeavour) have not given any heat excess evidence. One of them had put in the market a “kit” that has turned out to be a joke. I have to say this to make well clear that any future failure coming from all the burlesque reactors persented recently have nothing to do with our work and has not any right to cite our work as a reference without our explicit permission.
I hope this has been understood sound and clear, because I have been strongly disturbed form all the insults I had to sustain after the fraud of the Defkokones has been put in evidence, even if I had said from the beginning that Defkalion was a fraud. Much before Others have put it in evidence.

It’s interesting that he finds only the Ikegami-Pettersson and Ahern LENR systems to be working among his competitors. In reading Mats Lewan’s book An Impossible Invention, there’s an account of how Rossi, on a visit to Sweden, came across Ikegami’s work (the Japanese professor was working on LENR in Sweden with Dr. Roland Pettersson at Uppsala University), and after studying it he was able to improve the performance of the E-Cat by 30 per cent.

Rossi has previously expressed respect for Brian Ahern’s work. In June 2011, Rossi stated, “Dr Brian Ahern and his team have a strong preparation , and they do not need my help. I believe they will be first in the race to be my competitors in the market.” Recently the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project announced that Ahern would be lending assistance to their team.

Again, Rossi dismisses Defkalion as a fraud, and takes pains here to separate himself as far away as possible from them. Earlier this week we learned that David Daggett of Phonon Energy was planning on working with Defkalion, and had mentioned that he had seen some small-scale tests that convinced him of the legitimacy of LENR (although he did not specify where he had seen those tests).

I am not sure who has offered the LENR ‘kit’ that Rossi mentions in the above post — I don’t recall anyone offering one, but maybe readers here might know who he might be referring to.

  • Fibb

    I think Rossi has something real but if blp also has what they say they have Rossi is going lose big anyway. Strange that clean, cheap heat in a box could lose so badly but such is the situation we may find ourselves in.

    • jousterusa

      A very incisive comment from you, and one we should all take seriously. But you left out the word “to” in the first sentence, where you say “going lose.” No offense intended.

    • Fortyniner

      On the evidence so far it seems most unlikely that this will happen. If BLP have a viable energy producing system – itself an unproven claim – then they are a very long way from being able to utilise it to produce a reliable kilowatt-level power output.

      Also the very simple nature of the core technology – sending an electrical power pulse through a small gob of wet metal hydroxide (most likely aluminium or zinc hydroxide) – would be easily replicated by anyone with access to welding equipment. This could well mean that more competent experimenters are already ahead of BLP’s primitive ‘R&D’ and may emerge when they have developed viable devices.

    • artefact

      Yes. I think their replication is all about the patents and not if others have a working device in their labs.

      An other thing: Mills said in the interview that they filed patents for the sun cell this year. Rossi does not have the sun cell patents at this time to try to replicate them.

  • Fibb

    I think Rossi has something real but if blp also has what they say they have Rossi is going lose big anyway. Strange that clean, cheap heat in a box could lose so badly but such is the situation we may find ourselves in.

    • MMK

      BLP Vs Rossi + I.H

      Hydrino chemical reaction Vs LENR

      Manifestation of the same thing or completely different beasts
      hmm interesting!

    • Guru

      BLP is feeding into their system a 100 kW (5V x 20 000 A), for CoP = 1 they need 500 to 1000 solar panels installed around their welding arc apparatus.

      For more interesting CoP they need 5000 installed solar panels (if theirs data are honest and right). This is massive capital investment as some solar farm.

      The same effect you will get with other far smaller capital intensive competitor technology.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Can they make me a cup of tea with it now?

    • jousterusa

      A very incisive comment from you, and one we should all take seriously. But you left out the word “to” in the first sentence, where you say “going lose.” No offense intended.

      From another perspective, though, the fact that there are three devices that work, in Rossi’s view, substantially broadens the coming debut of cold fusion as a reality and a practical fact. That makes the chances of a successful launch of a cheap or free energy technology much greater, I think, than if only one group claimed to achieve it. If the premier inventor in the field is willing to publicly acknowledge success by other groups, the media will have a difficult time ignoring the whole shebang, as they have done to date.

    • On the evidence so far it seems most unlikely that this will happen. If BLP have a viable energy producing system – itself an unproven claim – then they are a very long way from being able to utilise it to produce a reliable kilowatt-level power output.

      Also the very simple nature of the core technology – sending an electrical power pulse through a small gob of wet metal hydroxide (most likely aluminium or zinc hydroxide) – would be easily replicated by anyone with access to welding equipment. This could well mean that more competent experimenters are already ahead of BLP’s primitive ‘R&D’ and may emerge if/when they have developed viable devices.

      • Fibb

        mills says it’s done. marketing it very quickly. we’ll see.

  • LuFong

    This is a very serious statement from Rossi commenting upon his competitors, something he says he does not do. He mentions competitors by name and identifies others indirectly. But he also gives good reasons to do this as well.

    It clearly is in IH’s interest in evaluating other patents since potential investors are probably concerned about other technologies, especially those which claim higher COPS. Unfortunately it is difficult to believe Rossi’s claims about other technologies not working since it is in his best interest for this to be so. In this sense the market may be the final arbitrator here as Rossi likes to point out. So we wait ….

  • Sandy

    Frank, I remember reading that components of the Patterson Power Cell were being offered as a “kit”. Patterson’s “cold fusion” U.S. patent may be about to expire.

  • Andy Kumar

    If Rossi has replicated other’s work, why are others not coming forward and confirming that e-cat as claimed in his patent application works? Makes you wonder.

    E-cat is Rossi’s baby and it is hard for him to part with it even though it will save countless lives from misery if put in use right now. Not to belabor the metaphor, Rossi is acting like a single teenage mother who won’t give up her baby even though she knows full well that the baby will grow up better, fat and chubby in foster care.

    An open sourced e-cat will be quickly improved by the best minds available and put to good use. No conspiracy can stop it if it is open source. Rossi can still claim licensing fees.

    I think it is high time that Mr. Rossi listened to Elvis’s advice (a little less talk, a little more action please…) and NOT Madonna (I am keeping my baby…)

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/elvispresley/alittlelessconversation.html

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/madonna/papadontpreach.html

  • catman

    “Looking at all existing patents…”, fine , but what about BLP?
    At this moment they are probably rushing to top of Rossi “list of threats”.
    Might they perhaps steal the whole show in the coming months?

    Is there any chance of a Rossi statement?

  • jousterusa

    On a legal note, Rossi has no way to enforce his demand that another group not use his published work as a reference, because that would violate constitutional principles (I did win a US Supreme Court decision in Shea v Reno on a free speech issue, and I think I know whereof I speak). However, I wonder if Rossi really meant to omit the work of the Israeli company, Energetics, that swayed “60 Minutes” and the U. of Missouri’s academic VP to the cold fusion side, and whether he meant to omit the work of Drs. Peter Hagelstein and Mitchell Swartz at MIT, whose Nanor device, according to their calorimetry, has been producing almost infinitesimal amounts of excess heat – which is why Rossi perhaps does not take them seriously. This was a very strongly worded document, I think, and it displays a great deal of self-assurance that gives me even more confidence that Rossi has the real thing in the Hot Cat. God bless him for that!

    • Fortyniner

      Rossi can only comment with authority in the very few cases where enough information has been published to allow full replication. As far as the rest are concerned, his opinions are obviously better informed than those of other observers, but are still basically just guesses. In particular, his former involvement with DGT may have biased his opinions regarding them to an extent that makes them subjective and therefore unreliable.

      So we learn that at least two other groups have viable systems, although we have no idea of the level of commercial development if any, but I think it would be premature to write off any other claimants or to ignore the probability that there may be many others who have been operating under the radar. I think Rossi could still get a run for his money from one or more unexpected quarters.

      • Ophelia Rump

        IH Industrial Heat which is the company which bought the rights to Rossi’s work is funded for 20 Million. His partner who own Cherokee Investments manages somewhere around 2 and 8 Billion dollars in investments. Its hard to say how much because the volume he manages doubles about once a year.

        I think they could rent a welder if they need one.

    • Daniel Maris

      “we have replicated all the existing patent” – not all devices. So, the question is whether the overlooked people you refer to have secured, or perhaps applied for, patents.

  • jousterusa

    On a legal note, Rossi has no way to enforce his demand that another group not use his published work as a reference, because that would violate constitutional principles (I did win a US Supreme Court decision in Shea v Reno on a free speech issue, and I think I know whereof I speak). However, I wonder if Rossi really meant to omit the work of the Israeli company, Energetics, that swayed “60 Minutes” and the U. of Missouri’s academic VP to the cold fusion side, and whether he meant to omit the work of Drs. Peter Hagelstein and Mitchell Swartz at MIT, whose Nanor device, according to their calorimetry, has been producing almost infinitesimal amounts of excess heat – which is why Rossi perhaps does not take them seriously. This was a very strongly worded document, I think, and it displays a great deal of self-assurance that gives me even more confidence that Rossi has the real thing in the Hot Cat. God bless him for that!

    • Rossi can only comment with authority in the very few cases where enough information has been published to allow full replication. As far as the rest are concerned, his opinions are obviously better informed than those of other observers, but are still basically just guesses. In particular, his former involvement with DGT may have biased his opinions regarding them to an extent that makes them subjective and therefore unreliable.

      So we learn that at least two other groups have viable systems, although we have no idea of the level of commercial development if any, but I think it would be premature to write off any other claimants or to ignore the probability that there may be many others who have been operating under the radar. I think Rossi could still get a run for his money from one or more unexpected quarters.

  • georgehants

    Just a quick apology to those on page who are intimidated with my high intellect.
    They of course have a very simple solution, put up an argument or point that successfully shows my comment to be in error.
    A lack of self confidence in these people leading to personal attacks is very sad and of course is responsible for many problems in the World.

    —-
    I would ask the question, why has Mr. Rossi chosen this moment to retaliate againsed these people, when up to now he has kept quiet on their names etc.
    There I think must be a good reason backed by IH.

  • georgehants

    Just a quick apology to those on page who are intimidated with my high intellect.
    They of course have a very simple solution, put up an argument or point that successfully shows my comments to be in error.
    A lack of self confidence in these people leading to (nonfactual) personal attacks is very sad and responsible for many problems in the World.
    —-
    I would ask the question, why has Mr. Rossi chosen this moment to retaliate againsed these people, when up to now he has kept quiet on their names etc.
    There I think must be a good reason backed by IH.

    • pelgrim108

      Does anybody know if Rossi is restricted in what he can communicate? Maybe he demanded absulute freedom of speech for himself in the contract for handing over the IP.

      • Ophelia Rump

        I doubt anyone outside of IH knows.

    • bachcole

      I doubt if anyone here is intimidated by your high intellect. I certainly am not. I freely admit when I am out of my depth. I cannot speak for others, but I am annoyed by your arrogance, not your high intellect.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Oh George is just trumpeting like a bull elephant again, trying to stir up a rousing argument.

  • pelgrim108

    Plasmerg had a kit in 2012. But it is not using classic LENR
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-1ayLwDSvY
    ———–
    Here is another kit.

    The LENR kit above and it’s components can be viewed in a Powerpoint provided that shows prices and what the parts are made of. There are parts that are off the shelf like the Spark Plug 28. and the Glow Plug 16.
    https://deighta.com/lenryear2.html

  • Paul

    Brian Ahern could be tied to Rossi more than suspected: both have worked for US agencies, they could have come in contact in the past. It would be interesting ask to Ahern if he has been in touch with Rossi in the last 15 years, I bet yes. IH failure in some replications does not mean the apparatus copied does not work, it is not a logical conclusion, patents and scientificc papers does not furnish all the relevant details for obvious reasons.

    • Sanjeev

      I agree. IH failing to replicate the patents can only prove that the patent holders hired good lawyers. It can not be logically concluded that the device does not work.
      Even if you provide a complete recipe for something as unreliable as lenr, one can fail easily to get the results in one or two shots.

      I have no idea why IH chose to go after the patents. Every inventor knows not to trust a patent, it has legal value, no scientific value (not always). I thought that IH management is smart, but I must rethink now.

      On the other hand, its a good news that at least two of them worked, if you trust the capabilities of IH researchers. However, there is no guarantee that its all not a measurement error, as we have no details or data or testing protocols. Who is going to trust Rossi on this ? Not many because the reputation of Rossi himself is not very good (unfortunately). Perhaps those guys would not like Rossi’s name associated with their devices. It can change after the ECat demo plant though, and they will get a boost in investments overnight. (Making the competition even worse for IH).

      This whole business of replicating patents is beyond me. They could have spent that time, effort and money in improving their own device. They worry more about competition, which means profits. Is there really a chance of loss here ? I mean what difference will it make if they earn a few billion less out of trillions? Greed has no limits. Even if they are now celebrating that only two competitors remain (assuming that), there is no guarantee that there are no more in the field. Many can pop up in a matter of months.

      • Owen Geiger

        IH can afford several research crews. The replication crew is not slowing down their product development crew. If anything, the lessons learned could possibly be used to improve the Hot-Cat. In my opinion, this is not about greed. Fundamental research like this is critical even though working from patents is less than optimum. No doubt they’ve learned a few things along the way by studying their competitors.

        • Sanjeev

          Then how about putting some crew on the task of developing a home Ecat? No I guess, there is no profit there. No captive consumers to milk and no control. The customers will open it, hack it and learn the secrets. Obviously not worth spending time and money.

          I do not think replicating patent is called fundamental research in any way. Fundamental research is always in the unknown areas of science, untouched by anyone else.

          If IH can afford such bright researchers, they could have used them to improve their own tech instead of copying from others patents. In no way I see any other motive then maximizing profits in short term.

          • Owen Geiger

            Rossi ruled out the home Ecat because of the near impossibility of getting safety certification. It could take many years of proven industrial performance before home units will be allowed.

            Not to get hung up on words, I’m considering fundamental research the same as basic research — the type of thing most companies do to be competitive. They’re exploring all basic aspects of LENR. And because LENR is a relatively new technology, this seems even more true than usual.

            You said “If IH can afford such bright researchers, they could have used them to improve their own tech instead of copying from others patents.” See my previous comment about multiple research teams. They’re doing multiple things simultaneously.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I do not believe there has ever been disclosure of what the requirements are before the LENR technology could be sold for home use.

            Do you have any more detail or some reference? Somehow I doubt that if Rossi’s technology were successful that his success would generalize to other LENR technologies. So the first into the industrial market should gain the advantage of being first into the home market, at a later date.
            This is one of the factors which would make licensing the technology such a bonanza.

          • Owen Geiger

            The Rossi saga of LENR home units was discussed at length here about a year or two ago. Due to obvious safety concerns the regulations for home heating units are very strict, even more so since LENR is a new technology. So, Rossi changed his plans when he realized the government could squash his plans or delay them for years over safety certification issues. That’s when he switched to his current path. His success in industrial sales might very well transfer to success in eventual home unit sales.

    • Omega Z

      Brian Ahern had a negative attitude about Rossi in the beginning, but has backed away from that view over time. Likely due to information he’s obtained from others closer to Rossi.

    • Kevin O

      patents and scientific papers does not furnish all the relevant details for obvious reasons.
      ***It is a fine line to tread, especially at this stage of the game. Patent law requires you to divulge enough information such that someone sufficiently versed in the field would replicate your results. Rossi is setting himself up to be the first guy in history to be “sufficiently versed in the field” and he’s preparing for the huge onslaught patent war that is coming. This is an initial volley in that war. It’s gonna be ugly.

  • Paul

    Brian Ahern could be tied to Rossi more than suspected: both have worked for US agencies, they could have come in contact in the past. It would be interesting ask to Ahern if he has been in touch with Rossi in the last 15 years, I bet yes. IH failure in some replications does not mean the apparatus copied does not work, it is not a logical conclusion, patents and scientificc papers does not furnish all the relevant details for obvious reasons.

    • Sanjeev

      I agree. IH failing to replicate the patents can only prove that the patent holders hired good lawyers. It can not be logically concluded that the device does not work.
      Even if you provide a complete recipe for something as unreliable as lenr, one can fail easily to get the results in one or two shots.

      I have no idea why IH chose to go after the patents. Every inventor knows not to trust a patent, it has legal value, no scientific value (not always). I thought that IH management is smart, but I must rethink now.

      On the other hand, its a good news that at least two of them worked, if you trust the capabilities of IH researchers. However, there is no guarantee that its all not a measurement error, as we have no details or data or testing protocols. Who is going to trust Rossi on this ? Not many because the reputation of Rossi himself is not very good (unfortunately). Perhaps those guys would not like Rossi’s name associated with their devices. It can change after the ECat demo plant though, and they will get a boost in investments overnight. (Making the competition even worse for IH).

      This whole business of replicating patents is beyond me. They could have spent that time, effort and money in improving their own device. They worry more about competition, which means profits. Is there really a chance of loss here ? I mean what difference will it make if they earn a few billion less out of trillions? Greed has no limits. Even if they are now celebrating that only two competitors remain (assuming that), there is no guarantee that there are no more in the field. Many can pop up in a matter of months.

      • Owen Geiger

        IH can afford several research teams. The replication team is not slowing down their product development team. If anything, the lessons learned could possibly be used to improve the Hot-Cat. In my opinion, this is not about greed. Fundamental research like this is critical even though working from patents is less than optimum. No doubt they’ve learned a few things along the way by studying their competitors.

        • Sanjeev

          Then how about putting some crew on the task of developing a home Ecat? No I guess, there is no profit there. No captive consumers to milk and no control. The customers will open it, hack it and learn the secrets. Obviously not worth spending time and money.

          I do not think replicating patent is called fundamental research in any way. Fundamental research is always in the unknown areas of science, untouched by anyone else.

          If IH can afford such bright researchers, they could have used them to improve their own tech instead of copying from others patents. In no way I see any other motive then maximizing profits in short term.

          • Owen Geiger

            Rossi ruled out the home Ecat because of the near impossibility of getting safety certification. It could take many years of proven industrial performance before home units will be allowed.

            Not to get hung up on words, I’m considering fundamental research the same as basic research — the type of thing most companies do to be competitive. They’re exploring all basic aspects of LENR. And because LENR is a relatively new technology, this seems even more true than usual.

            You said “If IH can afford such bright researchers, they could have used them to improve their own tech instead of copying from others patents.” See my previous comment about multiple research teams. They’re doing multiple things simultaneously.

            Edit: Case in point — Rossi said he was able to improve the E-Cat by 30% after studying Pettersson’s and Ikegami’s research. This shows how you can learn a lot by studying your competitors. Just one little detail could be very significant.

          • Christing

            It’s a legal game now, I think.

            That’s probably why IH is doing all the experiments described in others’ patents. They want to see what the patent says and compare it to the actual product so that they can determine how that product works, but I suspect, equally important to them, so that they can also determine the psychology, law, etc. behind the wording/development of the patent.

            Just a thought, everyone.

            God bless you and have a great day.

          • Ophelia Rump

            They certainly need to be aware of every patent so that they can protect themselves against violating those patents. Some patents will be educated guesses at vital components if anyone ever did make LENR work,
            preemptory leach-craft.

            Anticipate, patent, sue for part ownership with little effort or investment.

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            This.

            If you look all the patent wars that are being fought out there, you had better make sure that your new product doesn’t violate any existing patents. It may mean you have to change some aspects of your apparatus, but it may also bring you additional insight which can lead to an overall improvement. Either that or be prepared to fight it out in court in over the next 10 years and chance loosing billions at the end. I think it makes sense to do this.

          • Kevin O

            I agree it makes sense to do this. And it is an indicator of how far along IH & Rossi are in the process of market introduction. But since Rossi NEEDS those 7 independent swedish lackadaisical scientists to publish the report, he can’t issue anything else in the meantime other than this.

            Rossi is pretty smart.

          • bachcole

            “lackadaisical” in this context translates to “I am so impatient I could scream”.

          • Broncobet

            Unfortunately , true.

          • bachcole

            Christina, you changed your handle to Christing. How come?

          • Ophelia Rump

            I do not believe there has ever been disclosure of what the requirements are before the LENR technology could be sold for home use.

            Do you have any more detail or some reference? Somehow I doubt that if Rossi’s technology were successful that his success would generalize to other LENR technologies. The first into the industrial market will gain the advantage of being first into the home market, with the years behind them in industrial sales a buffer ahead of anyone else entering the market for home sales. This is one of the factors which would make licensing the technology such a bonanza.

          • Owen Geiger

            The Rossi saga of LENR home units was discussed at length here about a year or two ago. Due to obvious safety concerns the regulations for home heating units are very strict, even more so since LENR is a new technology. So, Rossi changed his plans when he realized the government could squash his plans or delay them for years over safety certification issues. That’s when he switched to his current path. His success in industrial sales might very well transfer to success in eventual home unit sales.

          • Broncobet

            If the reactors of all of these companies need more basic research, they could get funding for joint development from US national laboratorys or the EU . If they need applied research on a devise that works but needs to be optimized there is lots of money in ARPA-E or their equivalent in the EU.

        • bachcole

          Rossi SAID that he made a 30% improvement on the E-Cat thanks to this research. But wouldn’t that be patent infringement?

          • Ophelia Rump

            Patents cover a particular approach to something. If he discovered the underlying thing being approached and used a different or improved method, that would not be a violation.

    • Omega Z

      Brian Ahern had a negative attitude about Rossi in the beginning, but has backed away from that view over time. Likely due to information he’s obtained from others closer to Rossi.

    • Kevin O

      patents and scientific papers does not furnish all the relevant details for obvious reasons.
      ***It is a fine line to tread, especially at this stage of the game. Patent law requires you to divulge enough information such that someone sufficiently versed in the field would replicate your results. Rossi is setting himself up to be the first guy in history to be “sufficiently versed in the field” and he’s preparing for the huge onslaught patent war that is coming. This is an initial volley in that war. It’s gonna be ugly.

  • Jonnyb

    I wonder if Rossi has tried to replicate Santilli’s work? anyone know

    • Curbina

      I doubt it because Santilli’s work has never been on the same line, just has some connections to Mills work.

  • artefact

    From JONP:

    “Todd Burkett
    July 12th, 2014 at 7:44 PM

    Hello Andrea
    Did your replication efforts include Blacklight powers suncell tech?
    As Dr.Mills hydrino is not a LENR, but a possible competing energy source?”

    #####

    “Andrea Rossi
    July 12th, 2014 at 9:30 PM

    Todd Burkett:
    We have made substantial investments to replicate ALL the experiments reported in patents and publications. I repeat : ALL. I am sure that, at least in some cases, we know those Technologies better than the inventors themselves. We are taking LENR of our potential competitors very seriously and I confrm what I answered to Giovanni Guerrini today.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • Paul

      Rossì’s reply seems not very credible regarding Mills’ work, because 1) it is not LENR and 2) there are not yet public patents on his most recent reactors. However, Mills will probably be his major competitor and the possible final winner of the race (especially for the Nobel Prize), so I understand why Rossi does not reply directly.

  • artefact

    From JONP:

    “Todd Burkett
    July 12th, 2014 at 7:44 PM

    Hello Andrea
    Did your replication efforts include Blacklight powers suncell tech?
    As Dr.Mills hydrino is not a LENR, but a possible competing energy source?”

    #####

    “Andrea Rossi
    July 12th, 2014 at 9:30 PM

    Todd Burkett:
    We have made substantial investments to replicate ALL the experiments reported in patents and publications. I repeat : ALL. I am sure that, at least in some cases, we know those Technologies better than the inventors themselves. We are taking LENR of our potential competitors very seriously and I confrm what I answered to Giovanni Guerrini today.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    • optiongeek

      Uh, this doesn’t seem very plausible to me. I would estimate the effort of setting up a lab capable of replicating (or proving the lack of replication) of the BLP process of at least many months and well over $10k. Did Dr. Rossi acquire a spot welder, formulate the metal/metal hydrate fuel, acquire the know how to generate 15000A @ 5v, and then measure the results in a bomb colorimeter like we saw in Mills’ latest demo? The fact that he seems to regard this as LENR when it clearly has nothing to do with a nuclear process indicates he may not have spent much time studying it.

      • Ophelia Rump

        IH Industrial Heat which is the company that bought the rights to Rossi’s work is funded for 20 Million. His partner who owns Cherokee Investments manages somewhere around 2 and 8 Billion dollars in investments. Its hard to say how much because the volume he manages doubles about once a year.

        I think they could rent a welder if they need one. If you happen to have a million in loose pocket change, you can invest that through Cherokee and own some IH.

        • optiongeek

          So then Rossi will have no problem providing a picture of his experimental setup. Or, in fact’, any other evidence of his validation work to support his claim that he has disproved Blacklight Power’s results. Like I said, not very plausible.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Discrediting is much more difficult than crediting.

            He has discredited no one in my opinion. He has only failed to confirm.
            This is the overwhelming opinion I have seen on this site, and I think a proper scientific perspective.

            I suspect from your name that you are an investor, I understand why you would categorize things as either true or false. In this case I recommend you discard the evaluation of failed and only accept the confirmed, and then only as hearsay to be weighed judiciously.

            Blacklight has practically invented pumping the internet for money when it comes to free energy. They have been at it for decades. Have them make you a cup of tea before investing. My personal opinion is that Blacklight is a black hole for investments.

            You will get no proofs. We almost never do.

    • Paul

      Rossì’s reply seems not very credible regarding Mills’ work, because 1) it is not LENR and 2) there are not yet public patents on his most recent reactors. However, Mills will probably be his major competitor and the possible final winner of the race (especially for the Nobel Prize), so I understand why Rossi does not reply directly.

      • bachcole

        How much do you want to bet?

    • Broncobet

      Dr. AR, thanks for all your hard work.

  • Jimr

    I don’t understand this at all. Why would a company like IH place so much time, energy and dollars into trying to replicate all it’s competitors products when it has a product it is attempting to develop and market. I realize they must track their competitors but they appear to be overdoing it (if what. Rossi says is accurate).

    • LongtimeLurker

      It will be the biggest invention in human history – everyone needs as much info as possible about everything in the process. The VERY first time they roll out the prototype that obviously works (to laymen’s eyes), the world is going to go into a mad frenzy of research and development into the science of it. And from MANY different industries with deep pockets (the tech industry for sure, universities, energy industry, manufacturing conglomerates, aerospace, everyone). BILLION$$$ will chase the idea almost immediately.

      He needs a bid lead to start with, because the entire world is his competition

      • Kevin O

        He needs a bid lead to start with, because the entire world is his competition
        ***Well said. That is exactly what happened to the Wright brothers. Does anyone today accuse them of being frauds? Yet, in their time, the accusation was rampant.

        When you unleash something this big onto the world, the world will do its best to defeat you.

    • Ophelia Rump

      It’s a war out there and what you do not see can kill you.

    • Philip James

      Because in any competition you want to know the real competitors from the fake ones. Knowing who is “really” close might allow you to make certain (hopefully good) strategic choices you might not otherwise make.

      Similarly, if you were somewhat sneaky, you might notice a certain company “A” is on a trajectory to potentially compete with you, but their current system is not quite there (and perhaps YOU know the reason why. So, you toss out publicly that “everyone but X and Y” don’t work. This sows distrust into the air and funders might not continue to fund company “A”. Company “A” falters, gets further behind, or fails completely.

      Welcome to big business.

      • 6 month ago I would have said the same.
        Today I’m afraid the technology is not really a problem.
        Even as Rossi have a working technology he may lose the battle, because the market of LENr is not ready.
        Who will endangered it’s core business, who will provide the required services and endanger it’s core business…
        all the incentive currently are for status quo.

        what rossi only start to realise (with IH) is taht he need help and partner, in research, in industrial capacity, in funding…
        and Cherokee is too small to address that market and survive the negative incentive of all the planet.

        even those who will gain from LENR are not enough organized to face those who will lose. they need protection, to put resources in common.
        Patent will be worthless, even if Cherokee file real one .

  • Jimr

    I don’t understand this at all. Why would a company like IH place so much time, energy and dollars into trying to replicate all it’s competitors products when it has a product it is attempting to develop and market. I realize they must track their competitors but they appear to be overdoing it (if what. Rossi says is accurate).

    • LongtimeLurker

      It will be the biggest invention in human history – everyone needs as much info as possible about everything in the process. The VERY first time they roll out the prototype that obviously works (to laymen’s eyes), the world is going to go into a mad frenzy of research and development into the science of it. And from MANY different industries with deep pockets (the tech industry for sure, universities, energy industry, manufacturing conglomerates, aerospace, everyone). BILLION$$$ will chase the idea almost immediately.

      He needs a bid lead to start with, because the entire world is his competition

      • Kevin O

        He needs a bid lead to start with, because the entire world is his competition
        ***Well said. That is exactly what happened to the Wright brothers. Does anyone today accuse them of being frauds? Yet, in their time, the accusation was rampant.

        When you unleash something this big onto the world, the world will do its best to defeat you.

    • friendlyprogrammer

      If you are designing a toaster would you not look at plans of previous toasters? If you were making a Bicycle would you not want to see other bikes? This is a new tech so if it turns out someone else has a good concept then why not use it?

    • Ophelia Rump

      It’s a war out there and what you do not see can kill you.

    • Philip James

      Because in any competition you want to know the real competitors from the fake ones. Knowing who is “really” close might allow you to make certain (hopefully good) strategic choices you might not otherwise make.

      Similarly, if you were somewhat sneaky, you might notice a certain company “A” is on a trajectory to potentially compete with you, but their current system is not quite there (and perhaps YOU know the reason why. So, you toss out publicly that “everyone but X and Y” don’t work. This sows distrust into the air and funders might not continue to fund company “A”. Company “A” falters, gets further behind, or fails completely.

      Welcome to big business.

      • 6 month ago I would have said the same.
        Today I’m afraid the technology is not really a problem.
        Even as Rossi have a working technology he may lose the battle, because the market of LENr is not ready.
        Who will endangered it’s core business, who will provide the required services and endanger it’s core business…
        all the incentive currently are for status quo.

        what rossi only start to realise (with IH) is taht he need help and partner, in research, in industrial capacity, in funding…
        and Cherokee is too small to address that market and survive the negative incentive of all the planet.

        even those who will gain from LENR are not enough organized to face those who will lose. they need protection, to put resources in common.
        Patent will be worthless, even if Cherokee file real one .

    • roseland67

      Jimr,
      May be to protect their patents.
      They want to know how brand X works so they can differentiate
      them in the upcoming patent wars, which, if the Ecat works as stated,
      will be more than you can count.

  • RKTect

    To those who don’t understand why IH would replicate competitors work. It seems obvious to me that 1. It is possible that any of the competitors have an aspect of the process that is/was better than Rossi’s and that Rossi’s own process would be improved by some aspect of those processes. 2. Validity – being able to replicate other’s work adds a dimension of proof/respectability to the whole field; particularly as IH moves toward selling a product.
    Given the ability of MIT, etc. to destroy the reputations of P&F and delay the whole field’s maturation by 25 years Rossi and IH need to be bullet proof when introducing a product that brings into question the adequacy of mainstream physics theory. The speed of commercial acceptance of IH’s system would possibly result in the difference between millions and billions of dollars of profit from price of the units to number made.

    • Curbina

      Exactly, “Know thy enemy, Know thyself”

    • Alan DeAngelis

      After listening to Eugene Mallove, it sounds like the only reputation MIT destroyed was its own.

      Once again:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avpoIAKvYmU

    • Kevin O

      Given the ability of MIT, etc. to destroy the reputations of P&F and
      delay the whole field’s maturation by 25 years Rossi and IH need to be
      bullet proof when introducing a product that brings into question the
      adequacy of mainstream physics theory.

      ***Umm what you say right here is exTREMEly significant. It is and EXCellent point, and it behooves all of us in LENR to understand that political dynamic. LENR needs to be bullet proof. Can it be?

  • Curbina

    Now I understand who is behind this crowdfunding effort. https://www.facebook.com/chemonuclearfusionproject

    • Ophelia Rump

      No thank you. I do not wish to reproduce a supernova in my basement!

      • Curbina

        😉

        • Ophelia Rump

          It’s not the science I object to, it is the level of insight of a person who would say that this is the power which causes supernovas when trying to promote the technology. Monkeys with nukes, invest here, monkeys with nukes!

      • Curbina

        http://www.roxit.ax/CN.pdf short book on chemonuclear reactions by Ikegami.

        • bachcole

          If I don’t understand the first sentence, then I don’t read the rest of it. I didn’t, so I won’t. I hope some highly intelligent person can read and understand it and post a comment with a paragraph explaining it. (:->)

          • Ophelia Rump

            I only got through the first paragraph before I had all I could stand.

  • Curbina

    Now I understand who is behind this crowdfunding effort. https://www.facebook.com/chemonuclearfusionproject

    • Ophelia Rump

      No thank you. I do not wish to reproduce a supernova in my basement!

      • Curbina

        😉

        • Ophelia Rump

          It’s not the science I object to, it is the level of insight of a person who would say that this is the power which causes supernovas when trying to promote the technology. Monkeys with nukes, invest here, monkeys with nukes!

          The last line of the first paragraph of the link:

          “Chemonuclear processes in small dense white dwarf stars accelerate the rate of nuclear fusion and cause them to explode in spectacular supernova explosions.”

          • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

            Yes, why not build a demo runaway chemonuclear fusion reactor and blow the earth out of the sky… Just because we can…

            This sounds incredibly dangerous.

          • Ophelia Rump

            I do not so much mind smart people working on such things, but someone clueless enough to say that out loud while looking for funding frightens me more than the technology.

      • Curbina

        http://www.roxit.ax/CN.pdf short book on chemonuclear reactions by Ikegami.

        • bachcole

          If I don’t understand the first sentence, then I don’t read the rest of it. I didn’t, so I won’t. I hope some highly intelligent person can read and understand it and post a comment with a paragraph explaining it. (:->)

          • Ophelia Rump

            I only got through the first paragraph before I had all I could stand.

          • bachcole

            My not reading anymore was not repulsion. I simply knew that I would not be understanding the rest of it.

            I recall that I read the entire 2013 Levi et. al. report and understood and loved every bit of it, with tears streaming down my cheeks.

          • Ophelia Rump

            You had to reach the last sentence of the first paragraph to be repulsed.
            Take my word on it, had you gotten past the first sentence, you would have been repulsed.

          • bachcole

            I read the last sentence of the 1st paragraph, but since I didn’t understand any sentence before that, I was no repulsed. I did see a lot of references to supernova before that, so that was a little strange. But isn’t this one of the dudes that Rossi said he had confirmed. I am hesitant to second guess Rossi.

        • Broncobet

          That is very interesting, above my level of understanding, but I do know x to the 44th power, you better be playing with just a few atoms if this is legit. So far in our history every energy system is copied from nature, so at least this does that ,but still, like the others, unlikely to produce xergy (useful energy).

  • Curbina

    Exactly, “Know thy enemy, Know thyself”

  • Ophelia Rump

    Can they make me a cup of tea with it now?

  • Lande

    Even if Rossi haven’t been able to replicate all excess heat claims, it does not mean the others where not true, just that Rossi was not able to acurately replicate what they did. Like like the Nanor’s and Fusors of dr. Michael Swarts…or the all of the various Japanese experiments.

    • artefact

      Yes. I think their replication is all about the patents and not if others have a working device in their labs.

      An other thing: Mills said in the interview that they filed patents for the sun cell this year. Rossi does not have the sun cell patents at this time to try to replicate them.

  • Christopher Calder

    Did Rossi reveal all of his secrets in his own patent applications? Just because Industrial Heat cannot make a publicly published patent idea work in the laboratory does not mean the idea is without merit. The patent may simply lack secret details and only give a broad overview of what the company has accomplished. I do not recall Rossi ever revealing his secret catalyst to anyone not under a strict NDA agreement.

    • Ophelia Rump

      There are patents on processes and on devices. I believe Rossi got a rejection on the process. But bits of device only have to serve a technical purpose.

      For existence a patent for a switching system of one form or another, or a wave form generator.

  • Did Rossi reveal all of his secrets in his own patent applications? Just because Industrial Heat cannot make a publicly published patent idea work in the laboratory does not mean the idea is without merit. The patent may simply lack secret details and only give a broad overview of what the company has accomplished. I do not recall Rossi ever revealing his secret catalyst to anyone not under a strict NDA agreement.

    • Guru

      Exactly. I underlined this joke month ago. i.e. How many other people was capable to replicate Rossi patents ?
      And some dumb dumber reply to me “of course IH”. I repeat: From Rossi’s patents, not from secret proprietary knowledge. So it is hypocrisy of high level.

      • Obvious

        If I remember correctly, there have been at least two, and possibly three replications of the Rossi design, based on his patent info, but with low excess heat due to lack of the secret catalyst. These replications were discussed in the JoNP.

    • Ophelia Rump

      There are patents on processes and on devices. I believe Rossi got a rejection on the process. But bits of device only have to serve a technical purpose.

      For existence a patent for a switching system of one form or another, or a wave form generator.

      To answer your question, the one you were really asking.
      Did Rossi reveal in a patent how to complete a replication of his device successfully.
      No, no he did not reveal the secret. Unless he has reapplied recently. Perhaps once the report is released he will reapply for a process Patent in the U.S.

  • Obvious

    Rossi is now demonstrably Skilled In The Art.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Rossi is not on the team which does reproductions for IH.

      • Obvious

        Right. Rossi and the IH research team are now demonstrably Skilled in the Art, adding bricks to their patent wall.

        • Ophelia Rump

          That does seem to be a large part of their current engineering agenda.

          • Obvious

            I think the boil-in-your-hand, LENR cup-of-tea(or coffee)-in-a-can is coming soon to upset the “make me a coffe/tea with the heat” detractors.

          • Obvious

            Making a cup of tea, although I would make a LENR device to that, just… because it would be funny, would pale in comparison to a demo of near-boiling water in a pool. I calculated the required number of 10kW reactors and various amounts of time with various numbers of reactors just to heat a pool to 30 degrees Celcius from 20 C, and realized how much power it takes to heat an Olympic sized pool to normal temperatures.

  • Obvious

    Rossi is now demonstrably Skilled In The Art.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Rossi is not on the team which does reproductions for IH.

      Maybe you were referring to some other art.

      • Obvious

        Right. Rossi and the IH research team are now demonstrably Skilled in the Art, adding bricks to their patent wall.

        • Ophelia Rump

          That does seem to be a large part of their current engineering agenda.

          • Obvious

            I think the boil-in-your-hand, LENR cup-of-tea(or coffee)-in-a-can is coming soon to upset the “make me a coffe/tea with the heat” detractors.

          • bachcole

            Actually, the “make me a cup of tea” folks just want a demonstration, just like me. The difference is that I (and many others) are willing to (1) trust others, and (2) go looking for the burned finger. The detractors are singularly (1) incapable of trusting others since they are mostly social retards, and (2) unwilling to go look for burned fingers.

          • Obvious

            Making a cup of tea, although I would make a LENR device to that, just… because it would be funny, would pale in comparison to a demo of near-boiling water in a pool. I calculated the required number of 10kW reactors and various amounts of time with various numbers of reactors just to heat a pool to 30 degrees Celcius from 20 C, and realized how much power it takes to heat an Olympic sized pool to normal temperatures.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Discrediting is much more difficult than crediting.

    He has discredited no one in my opinion. He has only failed to confirm.
    This is the overwhelming opinion I have seen on this site, and I think a proper scientific perspective.

    I suspect from your name that you are an investor, I understand why you would categorize things as either true or false. In this case I recommend you discard the evaluation of failed and only accept the confirmed, and then only as hearsay to be weighed judiciously.

    Blacklight has practically invented pumping the internet for money when it comes to free energy. They have been at it for decades. Have them make you a cup of tea before investing.

  • Ophelia Rump

    They certainly need to be aware of every patent so that they can protect themselves against violating those patents. Some patents will be educated guesses at vital components if anyone ever did make LENR work,
    preemptory leach-craft.

    Anticipate, patent, sue for part ownership with little effort or investment.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      This.

      If you look all the patent wars that are being fought out there, you had better make sure that your new product doesn’t violate any existing patents. It may mean you have to change some aspects of your apparatus, but it may also bring you additional insight which can lead to an overall improvement. Either that or be prepared to fight it out in court in over the next 10 years and chance loosing billions at the end. I think it makes sense to do this.

      • Kevin O

        I agree it makes sense to do this. And it is an indicator of how far along IH & Rossi are in the process of market introduction. But since Rossi NEEDS those 7 independent swedish lackadaisical scientists to publish the report, he can’t issue anything else in the meantime other than this.

        Rossi is pretty smart.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Oh George is just trumpeting like a bull elephant again, trying to stir up a rousing argument.

  • Ophelia Rump

    I doubt anyone outside of IH knows.

  • Ophelia Rump

    Patents cover a particular approach to something. If he discovered the underlying thing being approached and used a different or improved method, that would not be a violation.

  • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

    I just now got to listen to the interview with Mills.

    He clearly talks about a huge project now with lot’s of engineering people and, trust me, either his is scamming like crazy and got the whole board of the company with him or it’s all for real. At this stage they should know that it will works and that they will succeed in short time, the technology described is just to perfect to get any serious road blocks from now on. I said it before and I said it again,

    People, we have a technology.

    Cheers!

    • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

      Sorry for posting it on the wrong thread, but I’m very excited by that info.

      • blanco69

        I agree. Blacklight power are, in my view, way ahead of anyone. Different technology but equally disruptive. Might be the reason that Rossi is focussing on low temp = free heat rather than high temp cheap electricity.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Can I get a cup of tea over here please, Just use the blacklight sparky thingy and be a dear and bring me a cup of tea.

      • bachcole

        (LOL) “But look at the heating element too long; it will give you a migraine.”

        • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

          LOL, those sparks reminds me of my youth going crazy on the dance floor, god ol times. But Really, they are clearly passing a boarder here, it will either be jail times for Mills and his gang for scamming the investors or a really nice show in the end with champagne, black candles, and of cause tea, a vast amount of hot tea.

          • Ophelia Rump

            They will have a long history of not delivering to overcome, I honestly hope they have something. I just do not believe that they do for an instant.

          • deleo77

            If you watch the second video of the latest BLP demo you may come away thinking differently. Mills is a great salesman. But does he have something real or is he a con man? I have walked away from Mills and BLP three or four times only to have Mills convince me again that he is on to something big. His latest hook is PV cells, and he thinks he has created a blast of light that will use them to provide huge amounts of power. I think I must be a sucker for believing this, but after watching the latest demo and listening to the interview Mills has managed to reel me back in. Someone said it will be interesting to come back in a year to see what people said about BLP. This one could be a shocker that makes Rossi and IH seem modest in comparison.

          • Ophelia Rump

            If the camera was not bleached white and everyone in the room blinded then he did not produce light as significant as his claims.

          • Barry8

            They put in quite the a$$ saving, lawyer convoluted jargon at the 6 second mark called the “Safe harbor statement” that seems to give them a safe harbor from investment $ going sour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRnfuO6uQyU

          • bachcole

            Thank you, Barry8, for finding that part of the video that I can actually relate to, that part that makes perfect sense.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Mills is saying that we have done X,Y,Z. That quote does not cover up if Mills speaks untruth. He says that most of the energy is light. Can he come back later and tell us that it was not so? He have done serious engineering, can he come back and say that they did not do that. They have dimension and evaluated so that the equipment would not fail due to high temperatures, can he come back and tell us sorry the COP is too low all the engineering was wasted. Perhaps he can claim that they could not scale it up, but then he is close to get suied as well from what he as said in my book.

          • Barry8

            Stefan, what did he say in your book?

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Well he has said that there is no major block left, it should not be to hard to reach few kilowatts. Not reaching that sounds very bogus to me. But of cause lawspeak can come in and save him, but in my book it is written that he is still a crock in that case.

          • bachcole

            You are assuming that he is not psychotic, a theory that makes the most sense to me.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            He is very high on adrenaline right know, that’s for sure. He should try to calm down and then continue with his work, adrenaline makes you do mistakes when one need to be careful.

          • deleo77

            Yeah, Mills has more energy than he seems to know what to do with at this moment. He seems euphoric, like he has been at this for 22 years and now he has finally found a way to make it all come together. His idea of creating light from water vapor and then using that light to get power from PV cells is crazy but elegant too. BLP is doing another public demonstration in a week. We will see if Mills actually does a demo with the PV cells generating real amounts of electrical power. it would be unreal if he does, and perhaps the world at large will take notice.

          • bachcole

            My expectation of bogus-ness is 98%. My hope is 100%.

          • Omega Z

            OR
            Me thinks your to pessimistic. But that’s your choice.
            I’m merely pessimistic about the Real Soon.
            Engineering the Feed appears problematic to me. Not insurmountable, But problematic.
            Wait a minute. Just about got it. Almost there.
            There it–#*%$, . . It broke. Come back next month.

          • Ophelia Rump

            If BlackLight could generate the power which they say, and if they can tap 40% as light successfully. The entire device will either melt down in the first hour or cost more too cool than it is worth. 60% waste heat is a difficult thing to gather from either a large area composed of boxes of solar cells, or one large solar cell. It will cost 20% more power than you produce.

            Bad Engineering Concepts In History!

          • Omega Z

            Actually, it all boils down to scale & use.
            An Electric E-cat at home use would likely have a 70% waste heat, so if electric is your primary need, you would have to increase it’s capacity. All this would have to be considered according to each persons need. Either way produces waste heat.

            Aside from when this would come to market, My concern is more about consumer cost. Mills speaks of it being cheap, but at the same time speaks of BIG Profits. You can buy 1 of these & it pays for itself in 1 month. He’s speaking in Business terms. Not the consumer. It’s clean Energy, but the consumer doesn’t catch a break. Have the Individuals been sold out.

            This is why we need multiple players in the field. With competition, Mills & company will then have to compete.
            I also Note the change from MHD conversion to using PV’s. I understand that MHD technology isn’t ready as yet, But his mentality appears to drop it altogether. Makes 1 wonder if backroom deals have been reached to save PV manufacture’s.

    • Barry8

      Lets face it, Mills is dropping explosive powder from an auger feeding device and another uses a vibratory hopper to make crude popcorn explosions. From the produced light he’s powering a 27 watt LED and a flashing light. In another he said 70 watts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRnfuO6uQyU (see min. 10:45 – 14:00) This is what he’s demoing after 60 mil of investment money. I’d like to know how much the fuel cost compared to flash powder.

    • Omega Z

      Stefan
      I think he’s got the goods.
      Succeeding in a short time is questionable.
      I Must say, Over Optimisism tends to be an illness among all these players. The Hard part has been overcome. Everything else will be easy. Famous last words.

      If that guy “Murphy” could just be avoided.
      Quite the Spoiler is he…
      I speak from Experience. 🙂

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        If you produce most of the energy as light ol’ Murphy will have less to work on than if it was heat. That means that he can move much faster than Rossi.

  • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

    I just now got to listen to the interview with Mills.

    He clearly talks about a huge project now with lot’s of engineering people and, trust me, either his is scamming like crazy and got the whole board of the company with him or it’s all for real. At this stage they should know that it will works and that they will succeed in short time, the technology described is just to perfect to get any serious road blocks from now on. I said it before and I said it again,

    People, we have a technology.

    Cheers!

    • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

      Sorry for posting it on the wrong thread, but I’m very excited by that info.

      • blanco69

        I agree. Blacklight power are, in my view, way ahead of anyone. Different technology but equally disruptive. Might be the reason that Rossi is focussing on low temp = free heat rather than high temp cheap electricity.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Can I get a cup of tea over here please, Just use the blacklight sparky thingy and be a dear and bring me a cup of tea.

      • bachcole

        (LOL) “But look at the heating element too long; it will give you a migraine.”

        • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

          LOL, those sparks reminds me of my youth going crazy on the dance floor, god ol times. But Really, they are clearly passing a boarder here, it will either be jail times for Mills and his gang for scamming the investors or a really nice show in the end with champagne, black candles, and of cause tea, a vast amount of hot tea.

          • Ophelia Rump

            They will have a long history of not delivering to overcome, I honestly hope they have something. I just do not believe that they do for an instant.

          • deleo77

            If you watch the second video of the latest BLP demo you may come away thinking differently. Mills is a great salesman. But does he have something real or is he a con man? I have walked away from Mills and BLP three or four times only to have Mills convince me again that he is on to something big. His latest hook is PV cells, and he thinks he has created a blast of light that will use them to provide huge amounts of power. I think I must be a sucker for believing this, but after watching the latest demo and listening to the interview Mills has managed to reel me back in. Someone said it will be interesting to come back in a year to see what people said about BLP. This one could be a shocker that makes Rossi and IH seem modest in comparison.

          • Ophelia Rump

            If the camera was not bleached white and everyone in the room not blinded then he did not produce light as significant as his claims.

          • optiongeek

            You do understand each reaction (pop) involves about 30ul of water, right? This is less than 1000J per reaction, and a frequency of about 1 – 10 Hz seems to be the limit what can be accomplished with the seam welder setup. So, no, blinding light shouldn’t expected at this phase. However, as the purpose-built components begin to be delivered from his engineering partners, expect the reaction rate to increase significantly – Mills is shooting for 2000Hz in the production model. If they reach that level, then yes, you would want to enclose the reaction chamber.

          • They put in quite the a$$ saving, lawyer convoluted jargon at the 6 second mark called the “Safe harbor statement” that seems to give them a safe harbor from investment $ going sour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRnfuO6uQyU

          • bachcole

            Thank you, Barry8, for finding that part of the video that I can actually relate to, that part that makes perfect sense.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Mills is saying that we have done X,Y,Z. That quote does not cover up if Mills speaks untruth. He says that most of the energy is light. Can he come back later and tell us that it was not so? He have done serious engineering, can he come back and say that they did not do that. They have dimension and evaluated so that the equipment would not fail due to high temperatures, can he come back and tell us sorry the COP is too low all the engineering was wasted. Perhaps he can claim that they could not scale it up, but then he is close to get suied as well from what he has said in my book.

          • Stefan, what did he say in your book?

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            Well he has said that there is no major block left, it should not be to hard to reach few kilowatts. Not reaching that sounds very bogus to me. But of cause lawspeak can come in and save him, but in my book it is written that he is still a crock in that case.

          • bachcole

            You are assuming that he is not psychotic, a theory that makes the most sense to me.

          • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

            He is very high on adrenaline right know, that’s for sure. He should try to calm down and then continue with his work, adrenaline makes you do mistakes when one need to be careful.

          • deleo77

            Yeah, Mills has more energy than he seems to know what to do with at this moment. He seems euphoric, like he has been at this for 22 years and now he has finally found a way to make it all come together. His idea of creating light from water vapor and then using that light to get power from PV cells is crazy but elegant too. BLP is doing another public demonstration in a week. We will see if Mills actually does a demo with the PV cells generating real amounts of electrical power. it would be unreal if he does, and perhaps the world at large will take notice.

          • bachcole

            Why would the world take notice? When he does a demo with input vs. output that is greater than unity, then perhaps people might start taking notice. But if it is another joke like the last demos, forget about it.

          • optiongeek

            Math doesn’t lie. Mills theory solves problems, elegantly, that no one else has ever achieved. Rip on Mills all you want, bray like donkeys for all I care. But if you want to actually contribute to the conversation you should educate yourself about what you’re dissing.

          • Mike

            Nah man, don’t be like the skeptics. The skeptics have educated these people. The people just trust what they were taught. We need to break that trust so they can reopen their minds. Blame the corrupt system not the victims. They will believe when this shit becomes commercial. I don’t mind them doubting, it is the character assassinating I hate.
            I am not positive about Mills but I am positive we have a new clean energy source that has been covered up by the people who could have brought this to the world 20 years ago. When LENR is common knowledge, we should flush the establishment toilet so to speak and get rid of those who wasted the worlds time and money.

          • bachcole

            My expectation of bogus-ness is 98%. My hope is 100%.

          • Omega Z

            OR
            Me thinks your to pessimistic. But that’s your choice.
            I’m merely pessimistic about the Real Soon.
            Engineering the Feed appears problematic to me. Not insurmountable, But problematic.
            Wait a minute. Just about got it. Almost there.
            There it–#*%$, . . It broke. Come back next month.

          • Ophelia Rump

            If BlackLight could generate the power which they say, and if they can tap 40% as light successfully. The entire device will either melt down in the first hour or cost more too cool than it is worth. 60% waste heat is a difficult thing to gather from either a large area composed of boxes of solar cells, or one large solar cell. It will cost 20% more power than you produce.

            Bad Engineering Concepts In History!

          • Omega Z

            Actually, it all boils down to scale & use.
            An Electric E-cat at home use would likely have a 70% waste heat, so if electric is your primary need, you would have to increase it’s capacity. All this would have to be considered according to each persons need. Either way produces waste heat.

            Aside from when this would come to market, My concern is more about consumer cost. Mills speaks of it being cheap, but at the same time speaks of BIG Profits. You can buy 1 of these & it pays for itself in 1 month. He’s speaking in Business terms. Not the consumer. It’s clean Energy, but the consumer doesn’t catch a break. Have the Individuals been sold out.

            This is why we need multiple players in the field. With competition, Mills & company will then have to compete.
            I also Note the change from MHD conversion to using PV’s. I understand that MHD technology isn’t ready as yet, But his mentality appears to drop it altogether. Makes 1 wonder if backroom deals have been reached to save PV manufacture’s.

          • bachcole

            Mills’ dropping MHD suddenly is more likely someone desperately trying to make something happen before he gets his expensive care hauled away.

    • Lets face it, Mills is dropping explosive powder from an auger feeding device and another uses a vibratory hopper to make crude popcorn explosions. From the produced light he’s powering a 27 watt LED and a flashing light. In another he said 70 watts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRnfuO6uQyU (see min. 10:45 – 14:00) This is what he’s demoing after 60 mil of investment money. I’d like to know how much the fuel cost compared to flash powder.

      • Mike

        No 1, we spent 100’s of billions on finding safe nuclear power. We got nothing. Don’t you think you should be angry about that? But no, you want this man to get a brand new source with all the engineering and r&d, with 60.000,000? Something rings disingenuous with your statement. No 2 He lit that bulb against the laws of quantum physics, that ain’t enough for you? Or will you now call him liar, liar? I remember ALL the attacks on him, calling him stupid. And they all were correcting Mills’ math. His team rebutted all and the skeptics had no answers and began attacking his character. Mainstream scientists are a bunch of bumbling educated idiots, that have left us technologically stagnant for the last 80 years. And they pissed away the worlds wealth on their bookie style probability formulas that Mills has debunked IMHO. You should hear how stupid Kaku sounded talking about this LENR. He has the theory of everything, cept LENR. lol What a joke he is.

        • You seem kind of angry there Mike. Mills, by his own admission is dropping powder, igniting it and absorbing the light with solar collectors. How is this against the law of quantum physics?

          I don’t think he’s stupid, never said that and I didn’t say he was a liar, but he is using deceptive salesmanship terminology “50 – 75 times brighter than the sun” sounds great but what does that really mean in terms of energy? What does his fuel cost? Why isn’t there a decent model after 20 years? Lots of red flags

          .I used to have a lot of hope in Blacklight, but became disillusioned by the crude demos surrounded by a lot of verbiage and lack of progress. I hope he proves me wrong, but won’t hold my breath.

    • Omega Z

      Stefan
      I think he’s got the goods.
      Succeeding in a short time is questionable.
      I Must say, Over Optimisism tends to be an illness among all these players. The Hard part has been overcome. Everything else will be easy. Famous last words.

      If that guy “Murphy” could just be avoided.
      Quite the Spoiler is he…
      I speak from Experience. 🙂

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        If you produce most of the energy as light ol’ Murphy will have less to work on than if it was heat. That means that he can move much faster than Rossi.

        • Mike

          You have no idea. 🙂 To the moon. imagine that. Take a useless photovoltaic cells,(because we on have one sun). Now we can have millions of suns, those cells now are the savior of the world energy problem. I believe ever word from Mills now. He or the folks he works with are brilliant. And lucky. 🙂

    • mike

      Yea, the whole world should be funding this. When this is marketed, every quantum physicist should be fired immediately as they all knew and chose to protect their paychecks. Such a shame. It is the crime of the century.

      • optiongeek

        Any QM physicist who took a government-funded grant should be prosecuted for theft. Anyone who can work through the (Mills’ derived) formula: g/2 = 1 + alpha/2pi + alpha^3/3pi – alpha^2/3pi^2, can immediately see that it provides a value for g (anomalous magnetic dipole moment) that matches observed the value to 11 digits. That’s the same level of accuracy as the QM-derived formula which is cited as a “high precision test of QED”. However, the QM version requires 50-pages of adjustable parameters and constants to work out. Which version seems more like reality, a) the version requiring three compact terms in alpha (a fundamental constant, i.e. the source of Feynman’s wondrous “137”), or b) the version that can’t even be described without tens of thousands of lines of numerical processing code?

  • Publius

    It’s very odd Brillouin is not mentioned among the competition. Robert Godes and Mike McKubre have tried to reach out to Rossi, but he has arrogantly denied any communication. I don’t think Brillouin gets the credit they deserve for their transparency, CECR theory and corroboration with SRI. I admire the efforts of all, but I’m not so sure Rossi should be so confident they have the best technology. I’m a bit dismayed that he continual refers to this phenomenon as the “Rossi Effect” – relax – Wilbur and Orville Wright were not concerned with their legacy and the “Wright Effect.”

    • Ophelia Rump

      When you have an effect you can call it puberty if you like, do not be dismayed.

    • Omega Z

      Brillouin’s transparency has been mentioned on several occasions. Rossi has actually been more transparent then Brillouin if you’ve followed along.

      To My knowledge, Brillouin has never allowed outsiders into a Demo other then a select few would be investors. In Fact, At one time they said if you wanted a Demo, You would have to pay for it. $250K if I recall. I’m not offended. If they choose to lie low, that’s their business. As to their Theory, It is not verified. So at this point it joins all the other Theories.. More an Opinion then Theory at this time.

      So that You Know, I have no issue’s with Brillouin. They have involved enough credible people that I’m confident they have a product COP>1. Last I’m aware of was COP=3 & shooting for COP=4. Good for them & I mean that. The more the better for all concerned. Competition is good.

      As to deserved credit, They stay pretty much Silent. Where’s the transparency? No Offense. Just a fair question. Likely their choice. Not a problem. If they want more credit they need to be forth coming. I don’t think this is an Issue for them. I think this is just Your View. They have credibility from/by me.

      Rossi. Yes, I’m very aware that they reached out to Rossi. A credit to them. And Declined by Rossi. I fully understand Rossi’s position. 2 Points:

      1- You seldom team up with a competitor unless there is a Mutual Benefit. Rossi didn’t see benefit in such an arrangement. Brillouin apparently did. This indicates a faith on their part that Rossi has something of use.
      2- Rossi tried the Partner thingy. DGT. That didn’t work out so well. They tried to steel his IP. Once Burnt, Twice Shy. Even had Rossi thought there was a Benefit of joining them, Trust was an Issue. No Reasonable person can blame Rossi for this.

      AND On a Final Note: All these players withhold their secrets regardless how transparent they try to come across. They aren’t Stupid. I Imagine even MFMP keeps their cards close to their chest. I’d guarantee it.

  • Publius

    It’s very odd Brillouin is not mentioned among the competition. Robert Godes and Mike McKubre have tried to reach out to Rossi, but he has arrogantly denied any communication. I don’t think Brillouin gets the credit they deserve for their transparency, CECR theory and corroboration with SRI. I admire the efforts of all, but I’m not so sure Rossi should be so confident they have the best technology. I’m a bit dismayed that he continual refers to this phenomenon as the “Rossi Effect” – relax – Wilbur and Orville Wright were not concerned with their legacy and the “Wright Effect.”

    • Broncobet

      Wilbur and Orville were totally consumed with their patents and legacy.

    • Ophelia Rump

      When you have an effect you can call it puberty if you like, do not be dismayed.

    • bachcole

      But the Wright Bros. had a handy name: “flight”. “New Fire” sort of doesn’t work for me, particularly if there are more than one effects.

      You are assuming arrogance when there is no evidence for that.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Fire Mk2 V1, definitely not.

        Brilliance

        I don’t know if that would catch on, but it would be marketable.

        I withhold all copyright and trademark for anyone but Rossi.

        Rossi can use Brilliance freely 😉

    • Omega Z

      Brillouin’s transparency has been mentioned on several occasions. Rossi has actually been more transparent then Brillouin if you’ve followed along.

      To My knowledge, Brillouin has never allowed outsiders into a Demo other then a select few would be investors. In Fact, At one time they said if you wanted a Demo, You would have to pay for it. $250K if I recall. I’m not offended. If they choose to lie low, that’s their business. As to their Theory, It is not verified. So at this point it joins all the other Theories.. More an Opinion then Theory at this time.

      So that You Know, I have no issue’s with Brillouin. They have involved enough credible people that I’m confident they have a product COP>1. Last I’m aware of was COP=3 & shooting for COP=4. Good for them & I mean that. The more the better for all concerned. Competition is good.

      As to deserved credit, They stay pretty much Silent. Where’s the transparency? No Offense. Just a fair question. Likely their choice. Not a problem. If they want more credit they need to be forth coming. I don’t think this is an Issue for them. I think this is just Your View. They have credibility from/by me.

      Rossi. Yes, I’m very aware that they reached out to Rossi. A credit to them. And Declined by Rossi. I fully understand Rossi’s position. 2 Points:

      1- You seldom team up with a competitor unless there is a Mutual Benefit. Rossi didn’t see benefit in such an arrangement. Brillouin apparently did. This indicates a faith on their part that Rossi has something of use.
      2- Rossi tried the Partner thingy. DGT. That didn’t work out so well. They tried to steel his IP. Once Burnt, Twice Shy. Even had Rossi thought there was a Benefit of joining them, Trust was an Issue. No Reasonable person can blame Rossi for this.

      AND On a Final Note: All these players withhold their secrets regardless how transparent they try to come across. They aren’t Stupid. I Imagine even MFMP keeps their cards close to their chest. I’d guarantee it.

    • catfish

      The Wright Brothers tied up flight development in the Americas with their patents that ultimately left the USA far behind in development by the time of World War I. The Wright family would not give the Flyer to the Smithsonian until they removed any reference to Langley’s Aerodrome being the first airplane. They cared about their legacy.

  • Obvious

    If I remember correctly, there have been at least two, and possibly three replications of the Rossi design, based on his patent info, but with low excess heat due to lack of the secret catalyst. These replications were discussed in the JoNP.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You had to reach the last sentence of the first paragraph to be repulsed.
    Take my word on it, had you gotten past the first sentence, you would have been repulsed.

    • bachcole

      I read the last sentence of the 1st paragraph, but since I didn’t understand any sentence before that, I was no repulsed. I did see a lot of references to supernova before that, so that was a little strange. But isn’t this one of the dudes that Rossi said he had confirmed. I am hesitant to second guess Rossi.

  • Kevin O

    Given the ability of MIT, etc. to destroy the reputations of P&F and
    delay the whole field’s maturation by 25 years Rossi and IH need to be
    bullet proof when introducing a product that brings into question the
    adequacy of mainstream physics theory.

    ***Umm what you say right here is exTREMEly significant. It is and EXCellent point, and it behooves all of us in LENR to understand that political dynamic. LENR needs to be bullet proof. Can it be?

  • Facepalm

    Vetandets Värld are doing a replay about the E-Cat 🙁
    http://sverigesradio.se/sida/default.aspx?programid=406

  • catfish

    I am guessing he is saying that hydrobetatron kit does not work? Since Celani’s work is openly testable, is he stating he also tested this as well?

  • Ophelia Rump

    Fire Mk2 V1

  • Barry8

    You seem kind of angry there Mike. Mills, by his own admission is dropping powder, igniting it and absorbing the light with solar collectors. How is this against the law of quantum physics?

    I don’t think he’s stupid, never said that and I didn’t say he was a liar, but he is using deceptive salesmanship terminology “50 – 75 times brighter than the sun” sounds great but what does that really mean in terms of energy? What does his fuel cost? Why isn’t there a decent model after 20 years? Lots of red flags

    .I used to have a lot of hope in Blacklight, but became disillusioned by the crude demos surrounded by a lot of verbiage and lack of progress. I hope he proves me wrong, but won’t hold my breath.

  • protn7

    I recently got a patent pending on an invention I call “Liquid Metal Chemonuclear Fusion and methods of increasing chemonuclear nuclear fusion rates.”

    It an extension of the Ikegami Petersson patents and based the extensive theoretical works of
    Ikegami The Director of a world class fusion physics center in the USA is ready to work on experiments on my aneutronic reactor design for $325,000. I’m looking for donations and investments to get the job completed. The first stage is a prototype reactor. I’m betting that Ikegamis theory is correct. We will have a very high power density reactor that does not pollute the air with carbon dioxide or toxic fumes and it will produce no radioactive waste when when we turn the reactor off.

    Chemonuclear Fusion is a type of low energy nuclear fusion that has been shown to produce
    energy in two experiments. Aneutronic nuclear fusion can provide unlimited electric power without polluting the environment with radioactive waste and greenhouse emissions. Chemonuclear processes in small dense white dwarf stars accelerate the rate of nuclear fusion
    and cause them to explode in spectacular supernova explosions.

    The mission of the Chemonuclear Fusion Project is to raise awareness of this new and vitally important source of environmentally clean energy and to promote research and development.

    The Chemonuclear Fusion Project is soliciting volunteers to help our crowdfunding and
    educational campaigns. Our crowdfunding webpages will soon be up and running. We want people to post to discussion groups and help us get the word out that aneutronic chemonuclear fusion might be the radiation free way to power the world if we can get the funding to build and test reactors.

    Artists can help us design T-shirts, mugs, and promotional items to sell and give away to our
    contributors. Writers to write promotional materials and post to web forums are also wanted. Video producers and professional and amateur scientists who can help the public understand the concepts of chemonuclear fusion are encouraged to contact us also.

    Visit our facebook page
    and give us a like. We welcome your comments and questions!

    https://www.facebook.com/chemonuclearfusionproject