Rossi Confirms Bill McDonough as E-Cat Insider

We have discussed lately comments that American designer William McDonough has made about LENR, and today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics Andrea Rossi was asked by Thomas Florek about whether he was familiar with McDonough’s work and “Cradle to Cradle” philosophy.

Rossi responded:

Thomas Florek:
Yes, I have known William Mc Donough in the factory of IH in Raleigh, and he explained to me the cradle-to-cradle concept. Very smart guy and a brilliant speaker. I agree with the basics of his philosophy.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I see this as a significant remark because if Rossi met with McDonough in Industrial Heat’s Raleigh factory, it would seem to me that McDonough has to be an IH insider, because I don’t think that anyone outside the inner circle would be permitted to know where the IH factory is located, let alone go inside.

It would appear, then, that when Bill McDonough talks about his astonishment about LENR, he is speaking from personal knowledge, rather than just getting second hand information from his friend and business colleague, Tom Darden. It would seem likely to me that McDonough is an investor in Industrial Heat, perhaps on the board of directors, and I think we should be taking seriously his comments about the LENR coming on the market soon.

McDonough is well connected and seems to be widely respected. He has worked with NASA, the Clinton Administration and with Ford motor company, among others, on various design and architectural projects, and we know he has strong connections in China. That he is acquainted with Andrea Rossi and has spent time in Industrial Heat’s factory indicates that he could be a pivotal figure in the unfolding story of the E-Cat and could be very influential in its proliferation.

  • Broncobet

    Exciting stuff. So Frank, you must be located in Europe to be at least five hours ahead of Nevada?

    • GordonDocherty

      Frank is at this day and night – 5 hours ahead probably means late nights / “real early” mornings 🙂

      • clovis ray

        Hi, Folks,
        I see lots of similarity’s, between the to gentlemen, a passion for ,,,, well for life, and the constant, searching for knowledge, to help the human condition, thanks guys,

        • LookMoo

          The good things is how this LENR can be introduced without disrupting current systems. Mr Rossi was initially very upbeat about pre-heaters for powerplants that with little effort could be upgraded with ecat to boost energy efficiency several times… overnight..

    • ecatworld

      No, I’m in the US

  • Broncobet

    Exciting stuff. So Frank, you must be located in Europe to be at least five hours ahead of Nevada?

    • GordonDocherty

      Frank is at this day and night – 5 hours ahead probably means late nights / “real early” mornings 🙂

    • Frank Acland

      No, I’m in the US

  • Christopher Calder

    William Mc Donough spoke of a COP of 10. Let’s hope he was referring to the latest Hot-Cat with mouse device.

  • William Mc Donough spoke of a COP of 10. Let’s hope he was referring to the latest Hot-Cat with mouse device.

  • Anon

    http://www.fastcompany.com/1042475/green-guru-gone-wrong-william-mcdonough

    McDonough is a joke.. Dont be fooled by this propaganda

    • Justin Church

      Well the H-Cat Hydrogen Heater ain’t nothing but the truth…

      • mecatfish

        Whats going on with that anyway? Havent heard anything for months.

        • Justin Church

          Yeah all of us put the tech on the back burner when spring and summer came. Fall is upon us and I just went over some new designs with the guys over at the H-Cat Forum. I’m very excited about the changes, too much to list, I will be open sourcing the information very soon.

    • gdaigle

      McDonough certainly seems to have manufactured his success primarily through a good PR agent.

      • clovis ray

        Hi, buddy,
        And these days one needs, a great PR agent, to relate your intentions, to a diverse population,and smooth out the wrinkles, and apply a little makeup, to look its best, while you are always coming out with a new and improved model, right, lol

    • Ophelia Rump

      I wish I were a joke too, just like Bill McDonough. New businesses fly from his fingertips like snide remarks from internet trolls.

      When they say someone is a job creator, he is what they are talking about.

      Anon, whats your first name? Al?

      • psi2u2

        hahaha. Ophelia Rump strikes again. I can’t like this enough times. Can someone help me with it?

      • bachcole

        Ophelia, I just gave your comment it’s 20th bump/plus. I have never seen 20 bump/pluses here at ECW. I guess a lot of people agree with you. I certainly do.

    • sidewoundup

      “Joke” is a little harsh. Yes, lots of hype, but also some accomplishment. However, the article does describe someone who can’t seem to separate greed (his IP claims, which are the salient point in the article) from altruism. “If I’m rich I can help more”…but if you don’t help to begin with, nobody will want to play with you to help you become rich. He wants to be a world leader in sustainability. The unfortunate part is that he’s blown his credibility in some highly visible places. That’s a kind of brand damage that is hard to recover from. It would be possible, if he would turn toward the first paramita, generosity. If he doesn’t he’ll likely be a forgotten footnote.

    • bachcole

      I notice that Anon doesn’t give his/her real handle. That is pretty cowardly even in this large anonymous forum. I am impressed by McDonough’s boost of IH, Rossi, and the E-Cat. Your putting McDonough down has rebounded back upon you, my friend, and you look like a joke to me.

      McDonough does not have to be perfect for me to be impressed by what he has to say. Even if he did not agree with me politically or with regard to AGW or any of a number of other issue, I would still be positively giddy about his endorsement. He is a responsible person whose word about this matter I take at face value.

      You, however, my friend, will have to apologize openly before I will ever believe ANYTHING that you have to say.

      • GreenWin

        FYI, the hatchet job in fast company is 7 years old and its author set out to skewer Bill’s reputation – like pathoskeps do with AR.

        • bachcole

          Thank you for that. I tried to quickly discern the slant of fastcompany, but gave up and just said my piece without that info. What specifically is the slant of fastcompany, or are they just sloppy, or what?

  • Justin Church

    …GO GET’EM BOYS…

  • Justin Church

    …GO GET’EM BOYS…

  • Josh

    COP of 10 is at least, We now know. Electricity generation is possible.

  • Chris Marshalk

    How much longer until the release of the report? Christmas is coming.

    • Ophelia Rump

      One or two months before publication.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        My prediction of 9/30 is looking a little shaky. (:

        • Ophelia Rump

          That would be the one month mark, possible but only if the publisher is highly motivated.
          The report was supposedly accepted by the publisher around the first of September, and it typically takes one or two months after that to publish.
          You are right in the middle of what I see as the probable date.

          So don’t be glum! B<} Bespectacaled.

          • Andy Kumar

            OR,
            You should know that Nature published Watson & Crick in 3 weeks in the days of snail mail.

  • jousterusa

    I hope you’re right about McDonough. That would be a great boost down the line for the whole project.

  • Jonnyb

    This is great news, any day?

  • Jonnyb

    This is great news, any day?

  • Freethinker

    It is significant that AR let us in on this.

    It would only happen if it was OK with IH and McDonough himself. I think McDonough being extrovert on this issue is posturing in lieu of the publication, and likely McDonough know the outcome will be positive and what comes next will make the involved people icons in the web of time.

    Incoming.
    Brace for impact.

    • jonnyb

      I suspect they know the report is positive as well, fantastic!!!

    • psi2u2

      Bracing….Who’s bringing the champagne.

    • BroKeeper

      With this integrity backing erases all if any existed doubts of E-Cat viability. I see positive overall results from now on with positive negatives for improvements.

      • bachcole

        Remember that some people will simply refuse to look through the telescope (of our knowledge about McDonough) and even if they do they will refuse to ascribe any meaning to the funny lights they see in the glass.

        • BroKeeper

          Sorry, I was speaking personally.

          • BroKeeper

            Very astute reasoning and informative

  • Freethinker

    It is significant that AR let us in on this.

    It would only happen if it was OK with IH and McDonough himself. I think McDonough being extrovert on this issue is posturing in lieu of the publication, and likely McDonough know the outcome will be positive and what comes next will make the involved people icons in the web of time.

    Incoming.
    Brace for impact.

    • jonnyb

      I suspect they know the report is positive as well, fantastic!!!

    • psi2u2

      Bracing….Who’s bringing the champagne.

    • Brokeeper

      With this integrity backing, erases all, if any existed, doubts of E-Cat viability. I see positive overall results from now on with positive negatives for improvements.

      • bachcole

        Remember that some people will simply refuse to look through the telescope (of our knowledge about McDonough) and even if they do they will refuse to ascribe any meaning to the funny lights they see in the glass.

        • Brokeeper

          Sorry, I was speaking personally.

          • bachcole

            I also find this data point very encouraging. In fact, I wonder just how solidly certain something can get. But again, only we can see it because only we have been watching the drama unfold so closely.

  • Looks like 10 cop is becoming a reality.

    • Brokeeper

      Any ratio under 1:10 (1/10) is considered insignificant and COP considered infinite for all practical purposes. I can only foresee it increasing from this point on.

      • bachcole

        BroKeeper, what did you just say? I don’t understand it.

        • Brokeeper

          A factor of one tenth difference in general applications are usually overlooked. 1KW input compared to 10KW out (COP 0f 10) would
          probably be disregarded by most as a cost factor for ten times the return benefit. Or in grand-daughter-talk: a little crying will provide much milk. 🙂

      • Bro, I can’t understand why a COP of 6 is insufficient.

        • Brokeeper

          It is significant considering heat applications, however considering direct electrical conversion which is the real future of the E-Cat a COP of 10 IMO would offset inefficiencies, maintenance, initial costs and resistive business considerations. I’m just saying a ten or tenth are significant factoring numbers.

          • Ophelia Rump

            With 600% more energy out than you put in, even at a sad 20% efficiency in converting the heat to electricity (through a piston steam engine), you are making a 100% return on the cost of fueling it.

            I think you could keep expenses low enough on a 100% gain to make it a sound investment. If It cost 80% for overhead (Which is insanely high for maintenance on a old fashioned piston steam engine. 150 C temp), a twenty percent guaranteed profit margin is good enough for me.

            COP 7 and I would be making 120% net profit. This would pique my interest.
            COP 8 and 220%
            COP 9 and 320%
            COP 10 would be an astounding 420% net profit.

            It seems a little greedy to set COP10 as the required threshold for interest, until you consider the COP is between 100 and 200 according to Rossi.
            COP 100 would be 9420% Net profit.
            COP 200 would be 19420% Net profit.

            COP 6 and 150 C Steam would change the world.
            COP 200 what would that do?

          • orsobubu

            Ophelia, here I can see “profit” for you means gains, after you’ve subtracted costs. This is absolutely a trivial explanation of profit. It is good for ordinary administration of a balance sheet, but it cannot scientifically explain the real nature of profit (unless you intend a protected – without free market – economy, where the monopolist could establish whatever price he desires: but this solution would be extremely dangerous for the world, of course, and it cannot explain from where the money come in the first instance, anyway).

            You have to calculate the profit globally instead, in the whole market cycle, and you will find that – if you calculate profit as you’re doing – an average company, on a free market, have a profit equal to zero. Globally, you can have a profit ***ONLY*** if you employ (wage) workers and, from this exploitation, you extract some surplus value. Intuitively, a capitalist cannot add a profit margin to the costs, first because it is impossible in a competitive market, second because he should give the gains to other capitalists – who are making the same trick – to purchase their goods. The secret of nature of money and capital in general is inside the social relationship of wage work exploitation. You can find the details in Marx’ Capital.

            A technology breakthrough like LENRs could increase profits, in average, only if more workers are exploited in the production phases then before. In an era of automation and robotization of processes, this is highly unlikely. The trend of falling profit rates, unemployment and overproduction that marks our present age in the western world, is here to stay and worsen, also with contribution of LENRs applications. Crisis and wars are structurally intrinsic to the capitalistic way of production and the imperialistic way of distribution, and only the huge development of Asia is the only bastion against a global synchronization of the deflation/inflation crisis that devastated the end of the XIX and the first half of XX centuries.

            You can already foresee the next multiplied effects looking these last years to the shift of strategical balance around the world, the fall and rise of powers: the real heritage of the imperialistic subdivision in the global quotas of profits.

          • Brokeeper

            I couldn’t have said it better myself (ha). But wait … are you saying because of automation with less and less exploited workers able to purchase of said products we are heading toward manufacturing products only the exploiters can afford?

            What happens next – another Marxist uprising? The last time that happened was under a bourgeoisie government. Today we ‘supposedly’ have the freedom of democratic vote of the masses. What will we vote for? More socialistic reforms like ancient mega empires voting themselves benefits to ruin? Or are we evolving to a Star Trek like society where everyone will have non-salary of equal important purposes provided with free necessities and want – true communistic society?

            It appears to me we are entering a new renaissance age with
            different dynamics: near free energy, robots, computers, available technology able to reduce scarcity and cost like clean water/air, food, electricity, better health care, etc. Interesting crossroads we are facing but will wisdom redirect our path.

            The real question is will we be able to overcome and set aside our narcissistic greedy tendencies with altruism? I do see much good arising along with the evil. I pray we do evolve with little violence (no violence is unrealistic) into a society envisioned by Marx, but is it still just a dream turning into another nightmare?

          • orsobubu

            Hi BroKeeper,

            >automation with less and less exploited workers able to purchase of said products we are heading toward manufacturing products only the exploiters can afford?

            The capitalist class will necessarily have to find a way to continue to increase profits (at the global level, at least 1.5-2% per year), otherwise unbearable crisis of deflation will come. But the system tends inexorably to the falling rate of profit (due to automation), not to mention the fact that infinite growth is impossible, however, meaning a continuous geographical market expansion and a continuous increase for the proletarianization of workers. After asia and africa where can we go? in the moon is impossible – at least in a reasonable time – put to work millions of proletarians. The only solution is to increase competition and productivity through further automation, but this in turn means increasing exponentially the number of exploited workers, because an automated machine alone produces more goods but no profit, if there are no workers to check on with their work. We should therefore increase the machines to increase the controllers in an endless cycle that can not be supported because of the consequent overproduction. Already at the end of ‘800, when there was no more room for growth of the proletariat, because the asia was not exploitable in capitalist terms, they had to proceed to the massive destruction of productive forces with the great wars. Therefore, if there are fewer and fewer workers, it means less profits and big trouble for the capitalists. It is in the interest of the capitalists to produce goods for the proletariat, they do not want a world without goods. If there were no exploited workers at all, and only automated machines, this would generate the perfect communism, where all goods are available to everyone because no one needs to work any more, there would be no more surplus value, capital and money. But the capitalists themselves will prevent this with all their might, even at the cost of destroying everything to start over.

            >What happens next – another Marxist uprising?

            If you study the Anti-Dühring by Engels you’ll discover that the revolutionaries, including the bourgeoisie, have created their new worlds without any violence. New forms of production have always affirmed without violence. Violence, instead, is used by the holders of the old power to oppose them with their counter-revolution. For example, the Bolshevik Revolution had only one death, by an heart attack. It was the Tsarist counter revolution first, and then the Stalinian one, with the help of all the main bourgeoisie in the world, to kill millions

            >.The last time that happened was under a bourgeoisie government. Today we ‘supposedly’ have the freedom of democratic vote of the masses. What will we vote for? More socialistic reforms like ancient mega empires voting themselves benefits to ruin?

            The vote does not count, never. Crucial decisions are always taken by the bourgeoisie in separate locations. The vote is a simple poll/ratification to deceive the proletariat about its democratic rights.As soon as the system turn to crisis, the bourgeoisie takes away freedoms and establishes some fascist forms of government.

            >Or are we evolving to a Star Trek like society where everyone will have non-salary of equal important purposes provided with free necessities and want – true communistic society?

            I think yes, together with the end of work slavery, end of all human miseries, a full automation of all the industrial/services processes, the expansion of civilization into space, the creation of artificial intelligence to an almost infinite power, capable to address in the end even the problem of the immortality of man, by transferring the conscience onto mixed media, more advanced than the biological ones.

            >It appears to me we are entering a new renaissance age with
            different dynamics: near free energy, robots, computers, available technology able to reduce scarcity and cost like clean water/air, food, electricity, better health care, etc. Interesting crossroads we are facing but will wisdom redirect our path.

            Surely, and we are only at the beginning, but this will not be possible within the capitalist form of production, which is too far back, as were the medieval forms with respect to the production based on the new steam engines. in fact a form of communistic production is already in place today, what is lacking is the awareness of the power of the proletariat and the seizure of political power

            >The real question is will we be able to overcome and set aside our narcissistic greedy tendencies with altruism? I do see much good arising along with the evil. I pray we do evolve with little violence (no violence is unrealistic) into a society envisioned by Marx, but is it still just a dream turning into another nightmare?

            In the Antiduhring you’ll find the answers to this question. Man is able to culturally evolve to altruism (this is one among Marx’s discoveries), and basically he is already set up to do so, as it has evolved over millions of years in an economy based on primitive communism. Besides, the material evolution toward a communist industrial production is already advanced and proceeds without any violence. It is simply a matter of organize workers to achieve the political transition and to avoid the violence of the capitalists, who will try to hold it back at any cost.

          • Brokeeper

            Orsobubu, very astute reasoning and informative feedback. Thank you. I sense you have a degree in political science or equivalence. The one incalculable factor is the religious and/or political fanatical factions, but hope with the proliferation of near infinite and low cost energy will alleviate economical disequilibrium between classes for potential despondent radicals through education and freedom of speech.

          • orsobubu

            Excuse me BroKeeper, only some last adds to your interesting observations.

            >the religious and/or political fanatical factions

            with the rise of capitalism, religious ideologies have lost the power they had in the medieval feudal system of serfdom (the money has replaced god), and were reduced to mere support to the dominant ideology of profit. In fact, the Roman church itself now plays this role (for each soldier ready to the front, there is always a priest ready to bless and console), and the various religious factions fighting in the Middle East (palestine, syria, iraq, iran , egypt, libya, …) are simply representatives of bourgeois factions against each other, that in those countries – less developed as democracies – assume more easily the shape of religious currents than partitic ones. For example, the various Palestinian Islamic currents are functional regional arms of their rich bourgeoisie, in opposition to the Israeli bourgeoisie who compete for the same geographical space. You need to understand that all the struggles between factions of the bourgeoisie in history, all the struggles of affirmation of a national space are the effort to unify a territory with a uniform rate of extraction of surplus value from the working class people who live there, at the expense of other bourgeois fractions less efficient to do so. Fanaticism and religions are simply ideologies and tools to support this task. In particular, terrorism is an ideology created precisely by the bourgeoisie (see i.e. Mazzini, one of the fathers of the nation of bourgeois Italy, or the bolschevik massacres, which were the reaction of defense against white terrorism organized by the world bourgeoisie against Lenin)

            >but hope with the proliferation of near infinite and low cost energy

            yes, but be careful that the word low cost means disaster for the capitalist system, which extracts large profits by working with a high cost, that is, high capital intensity, that is, where it employs expensive equipment (produced by many workers) and large masses of workers to control the machinery. Many small cars generate little profits compared to the few luxury cars. You will find plenty of articles describing the damage to the capitalistic productive grid made by cheap solar energy infrstructures, or by little autonomous energy micro-cogenerators. Race to low cost and high productivity is a damnation capitalists have to run after, against their will, due to market competition. If they could, they would make money without production and innovation. And in fact, they constantly try to do so by finance, with cyclical disastrous outcomes.

            >will alleviate economical disequilibrium between classes

            but the aim must be not to alleviate imbalances (an effort that would be futile and would be swept away like a tornado, as soon as the crisis became widespread), but to eliminate all the classes; without this effort, if the proletariat grows the ingenuous idea that bourgeoisie will alleviate imbalances, they will deprive themselves of the organizational tools to counter the bourgeoisie when they will have to be sacrificed. It will be too late. During WWI, there was an organization, and a defense fight was even partially successful. But before WWII, Stalin and co. killed every revolutionary in Europe, and there weren’t any hopes, then.

            >for potential despondent radicals through education and freedom of speech

            remember that the freedoms we have, are kindly granted by the bourgeoisie in time of peace, but they will remove them as soon as no longer functional to their class ruling. Internet is an infrastructure totally controlled by the bourgeoisie. Think how easily it has been disabled in the recent civil wars in North Africa. Even mobile phones will have a system to be turned off remotely. In america, being the most advanced capitalist country, they have already started in recent years to the total redefinition of civil liberties, one small step at a time. The bourgeoisie is very well organized and knows what they need to do.

          • Brokeeper

            This is all very fascinating, but how is it possible to eliminate all classes? The only way I know of is to change the human heart, a power reserved for another who is infinitely above my pay grade.

          • bachcole

            LOL. Don’t worry. She/He/It serves for free. (:->)

          • Brokeeper

            Darn, now you know how much I make.

          • bachcole

            We can’t eliminate all classes. But, in order to avoid revolutions, cruelty, and society’s missing out on the diamonds in the mud, society should be structured in such a way as to encourage a hierarchy of merit and to encourage incentive. Other than that, classes should be discouraged.

          • orsobubu

            Roger, you’ve to excuse me because I didn’t read your email dating back in march. In these cases usually I give an address different from my business address, and I check it only some times during the year. Sorry. I’ll reply soon, even if you are no more interested.

            Then, IMHO you should be better matching counter-revolutions with cruelty, instead of revolutions, that are so a rare event in history.

          • GreenWin

            We might, in these discussion of social structures overlook human and others’ affection for… competition. Not only in the form of political states/cultures, but in every day life: grabbing that parking space, playing Scrabble, financial and athletic “prize wins,” often by exploiting lesser cultures. The world we experience around us, more and more mainstream physicists tell us, is a computer generated illusion. A hologram. A false reality. Therefore, who really cares what happens in an illusory world? Only those who created the illusion to entertain themselves. The spoiled, intergalactic children of lesser gods. When their supplicant avatars no longer “play” or care about the game (which is fundamental to entertainment) — the whole house of cards collapses.

            As it should IMO. As it is now a flimsy house created by those who disrespect emergent cultures, in pursuit of profit and self-aggrandizement. And we are to believe this adolescent behavior derives from an evolved elite or “star” people?? LOL! Greed, the “human” disease, is inexplicably endemic to much of the intelligent universe.

          • orsobubu

            I know that they are preparing an experiment that could mathematically reinforce this hypothesis, but even if it is very charming, I must say that I am not willing to believe it by faith. The possibility is like to believe and rely in a religion, too risky if fake. But suppose then that the game is really made ​​for the enjoyment of these gentlemen, or for any other reason, or for no reason that meets our logic, perhaps limited. The fact is that billions of human beings and animals have suffered horribly for this hypothetical simulation. So it is in my opinion what you can say about a divine being: he is not infinitely powerful as you might think, or he is infinitely cruel. Then, in both these cases, the simulated human being’ ultimate task would be to organize a plan to get out of this simulation so to destroy the creator. We discovered who to blame next, after the capitalist class.

          • orsobubu

            >how is it possible to eliminate all classes?

            Glad that you put out this question, which is the final one. As Bachcole says, you can not, because we are in a reality that has its material structure, regardless of our will. We can, however, prepare ourselves, betting on the fact that sooner or later we will encounter those historical conditions that will make possible an attempt, as has already occurred at the time of the Common of Paris, and in 1917. On this forum the question is OT, so if you cared the details, email me at [email protected]. Here I will only say that the preparation should follow a strategy based on three pillars: the first is the theoretical preparation, which should be as perfect as possible because even a small evaluation error can lead to a defeat; the second is the organizational structure that connects the theory with the third, that is the practical action on the territory. Keep in mind that your answer to this question has already been settled for more than a century by the most brilliant minds that the working class has ever produced, then there is nothing mysterious or sectarian, especially since the strategy has also had scientific proof of its validity, when the power was removed from the tsars in russia and all the international imperialists who had specific ambitions on russia. Nothing secret, however, they are all concepts well known to the ruling class (even if there is obviously made ​​no effort at all to disseminate) so much so that, for example, Henry Kissinger (one of the most influent imperialist at the service of the capital ever existed) is one of the most experienced in the world on the subject.

          • Brokeeper

            In other words, hypothetical ideal – real = tolerable expectation.

          • Thanks Ophelia, well put.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            I’m afraid that the tax will raise with the net profit. You can’t change the laws of nature, but revenue law can be adapted quickly…

          • Ophelia Rump

            No Meters!

  • clovis ray

    Hi, Folks,
    I see lots of similarity’s, between the two gentlemen, a passion for ,,,, well for life, and the constant, searching for knowledge, to help the human condition, thanks guys,

  • PD

    The Brent crude oil price is currently down by USD 15.65 or 13.85% in one year (15.34 BST on 12 September). The market saw significant price falls in July and August, and the price has continued the downward trend this week. This is good news for the global economy and consumers if the price drop is permanent. The price of motoring fuel has fallen over the past few weeks in the United Kingdom.

    If the TIP report is genuine, and the result is positive in favour of Rossi (rather than the oil and energy companies), there will almost certainly be an immediate additional fall in the global oil price (perhaps another 10 – 20%). This trend will continue as the E-Cat begins to replace traditional energy sources. Some of the market sentiment for falling oil prices is around the increased production and export of shale gas in the US.

    I guess that there is plenty of scope for discussion and speculation what the TIP (either positive or negative) will do to energy prices.

    http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=IB.1:IEU

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Crude#mediaviewer/File:Crude_oil_prices_in_dollar_and_euro.png

    • Billy Jackson

      While the tendency to say this is just market fluctuation. I believe that it will be a while before oil is truly impacted by the E-cat or LENR. its going to take a long while to replace existing devices or adapt them. Until then i think we will see a small dip at the start.. but oil will come back for a while.

      Still one cant help but get excited about the upcoming possibilities.. i know that i am.. excited enough that right now i canceled my lifetime subscription to cherry flavored viagra 🙂

      • Omega Z

        Billy
        I agree 100%. Expect a dip then recovery in all fossil fuels once investors digest the reality & probable timeline. Eventually followed by a slow decline over a long period.

        Some Soft Evidence.
        What I & a few others have witnessed the last year or 2 is a large shift/shuffle dumping of long term reserve holdings 20 & 30 years out. If it were just BP, I would say it was all related to the Gulf spill.

        However, this shuffle has involved several western Big Oil concerns. Including Exxon & Dutch Shell. This fits a 20 odd year transition. And No Doubt, These reserves will eventual be needed & used, But, Who wants to have Billions tied up in reserves that will likely have far less value in today’s Dollar$.

        Another thing of notice. Siemens has dumped/bailed out of a major portion of their Solar investments & long term contracts to build solar farms. Who does that when the MSM & Government propaganda trumpets the fast decline of solar cell prices & vast future expansion to come. Who dumps a growth market.

        Now take this with a grain of salt, However Intelligent employees in a factory usually know much of whats happening before it becomes official. Things such as expanding or coming lay offs weeks & many times months ahead of time.

        Info passed to me from a close acquaintance. Works at Siemens building Turbine blades. There had been much talk at the plant to expand & increase production & employment up until just over a year ago. Then that talk all ended. Six months ago, they reduced production & layed some off. My acquaintance is very nervous about his job security. Again, The propaganda is growth with exponential growth to come. Who scales back in what is expected to be a vast growth market.

        There’s also a large reduction of interest in building Nuclear Plants & canceled contracts even tho the Government has anted up Huge subsidies in the Billions of dollars per plant. Many already had Many Million$ invested in pre build costs. Canceled.

        And Last but not Least.
        We see G.E. and Siemens, scrambling to buy up Turbine & Generator manufacturing companies so as to expand their business.

        And I Ask? Who invests vast sums of money(10’s of Billion$) in a supposedly to become declining market of Fossil Energy production.
        Turning their backs on highly subsidized Clean Green Energies for dirty fossil energy that Government is fully intent on applying Heavy Carbon Taxes on. A pricing forced decline in demand.

        Each taken by itself has little meaning, But All together, It all makes sense “ONLY” if they have a new power source to run these Turbines & Generators.

        • Billy Jackson

          You lay out a good plausible case. While the evidence is there from our perspective i hesitate to bite into it 100% and say absolutely due to the fact that we simply don’t know all the forces at play behind closed doors. I do not find it far fetched at all if your scenario plays out as you have described.

        • Broncobet

          Oil and gas are reacting to market forces that have nothing to do with LENR, I am so pleased that the idea I brought up that LENR cannot arrive with out announcing itself in the fossil fuel futures, is being pursued by many on this blog. This is a chance to make a bet and make a lot of money if you are sure that LENR is imminent. It would not effect the current or near months. There are two canidates; the oil market and the natural gas market. Natural gas is so cheap already that it’s harder to go down. While oil is high but we’d need LENR devices to power trains, trucks,and cars. Look at least five years in the future. You can bet either way on 2024 natural gas up or down from$4mmbu. If you really believe everything written on this blog you’d short or sell that contract and if it goes from$4 to $3 you’ve made a boatload of cash as these contracts are very leveraged. On an equivalent energy price oil is more expensive as it’s easier to move while natural gas must be liquefied, but as said earlier it would have to power cars etc.Guess how long that would take, say ten years and sell that oil contract.The reason FF go up and down can be learned from experts available on the web everyday for free.if peace starts breaking out expect fuel to go lower as well as decreased business makes oil go lower.

    • If the Solar Hydrogen Trends hydrogen gas producing reactor is proven authentic in the next several months, then the world will be turned upside down. Rossi needs a COP of at least 10 to change the world. That may not happen yet. The Solar Hydrogen Trends device could be used for automobiles in a matter of months. It would take years to get a car running on a Hot-Cat. I believe there is a good chance the Solar Hydrogen Trends device does indeed work as promised, and that the Rossi device will show a COP of at least 6. When 60 Minutes reports it, the world will change. Without mainstream media help, nothing much will change. The current downturn in oil prices is likely caused by the fracking revolution and slow global economic growth.

      • Jouni Tuomela

        Me waiting for the Third Party Report published first. Of the SHT- device.

      • bkrharold

        “It would take years to get a car running on a Hot-Cat”
        It is not necessary to engineer a car running on a Hot-Cat. The Hot-Cat could provide the energy to recharge a conventional electric or hybrid car. New advances in battery technology hold great promise for extending the range to 200+ miles on a single charge.

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          My sons Tesla has a 325 mile range.

          • bkrharold

            Tesla looks very interesting but a bit too expensive for me. I hear they are working on a cheaper model with the same range. There is a German auto company with a novel battery technology called the nanoflowcell

            http://www.nanoflowcell.com/en#home

          • Broncobet

            Very cool,if the electricity is made with alternative or nuclear energy it’s a win win for the air. Actually even if coal powered it’s still cleaner. Plus it keeps money here instead of to our enemies.

        • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

          Not sure if an e-cat in a car would work, possibly it needs a stable environment and a car in motion is not exactly stable. I also seem to recall Rossi having doubts about an e-cat for automobiles

      • bachcole

        Chris, I respect your perspective, but I am still having so much trouble with their physics that I am having trouble believing them. What can you say about that? I am an Arts & Letters kind of guy who did well in science and mathematics.

        • I think the odds of a intentional scam are extremely low given the character of their scientists and staff. That leaves some kind of incredible measuring error made by at least three different independent companies, also a low probability. The malleability of the atom has been underestimated by mainstream science. Just because something is a new finding does not make it wrong. No sane scientists would try to have nuclear fission at room temperature. Solar Hydrogen Trends claim they discovered the process by accident and then perfected it. Their staff members do have a history in the gold and jewelery industry, so their story holds water. They were looking to find new ways to process gold bearing ore, and accidentally produced hydrogen gas in the process.

          • bachcole

            I think that my problem is that I need to see and feel the fire. All doubt ended for me with regard to the E-Cat when I saw those pictures of the red and white hot cylinder. I guess we are all different when it comes to certainty. But I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your thinking, and I will keep it in mind.

      • artefact

        End of 2012 Rossi was allready at COP 11.7 . Without error deduction it was more a COP of 17 over a time of 328h. That were hotcats with no mouse included.
        http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/10/12/update-andrea-rossi-provides-corrected-pordenone-hot-cat-report/
        The scientits in the “pre test” ran the e-cat at a lower temperatur so the COP was less.
        If they run it hotter in the comming test I hope to see better results than before.

        • bachcole

          I would expect so.

      • kasom

        if they produce so much hydrogen so cheap, they shall sell it and have no need to search for funding….

      • Omega Z

        With respect, No way in months.
        Aside from many other issues-
        Elon Musk is building a new batter manufacturing plant to the tune of $5 billion. By pulling out all the stops & using economic blackmail to cut through all the red tape, it will take most of 3 years to get this plant in operation & producing batteries by 2017. They HOPE.

        To follow, you need a distribution system. Years in the making.
        How to use it. Fuel cells(Expensive) or combustion. Conventional combustion engines do not deal well with hydrogen. Whether you use hydrogen or a mix of hydrogen/conventional fuel mix for enhanced mileage, It wreaks havoc upon the engines. Severely shortening life-cycle. Likely would require newly designed ceramic cylinders with an enhanced cooling system. Hydrogen burns much hotter then gasoline or diesel.

        Then there’s the safety issue. Think of a gasoline explosion on steroids. All these issues need addressed & the answers may create many inconveniences & trade offs that people will not like.

        If you want simple, Create a dipole magnet that makes perpetual magnetic generators feasible. But note even that will take a couple decades to transition to.
        20 years & still half the people in the world have no cell phone, Etc…
        100 years & only 1 in 7 have a car.
        Eons & half the people have no clean/safe water, Electricity, , ,

        • Problems with distribution and storage of H2 would be moot if the SHT device (if real) could be scaled to fit into a car, so only water needed to be carried. Fuel cells driving hub mounted motors would probably be the most efficient method of utilising hydrogen created on demand, although a compact turbine generator might also be feasible as the power source. As you say, either would take years to develop to commercial standards.

          The remaining possibility is a new generation of steam cars (and boats, locomotives, etc) fitted with on-board condensers. Most of the technology is already available, and in theory a steam car with a catalytic burner could be thrown together quite quickly. However it’s in the nature of commercial R&D to move slowly, and ‘garage inventors’ would be likely to get there years before the automotive companies, if a portable H2 generator came onto the market.

          • Broncobet

            Yes,if an ecat had the power claimed it could power a steam engine,with very simple engineering, the only problem is the heat source, the ECAT , let’s just call it a hot pipe ,once a hot pipe was made the rest is very easy and fossil fuel prices would plumment. I would call this scenario unlikely.But possible.

        • They could put their suitcase sized reactor in the back of a van right now and run the van’s internal combustion engine on water (hydrogen gas) with huge amounts of hydrogen gas in surplus. All they need to do is downsize their reactor to something smaller than a toaster and put it in a car and run a fuel cell or one of many efficient internal combustion engines designs available. Hydrogen gas works in ordinary engines that have been slightly modified.

      • Sue Jones

        ANyone who names their product SHT has a screw loose. You don’t have to be a genius to know that is a SHTy name. It is sad but true that the rest of their claims demonstrate sub-genius thinking. If they aren’t even telling the truth about the city in which they are located, why would you trust them. LENR is real but that doesn’t mean anyone who puts out LENR press releases is real.

    • Guru

      Heating Oil is 23% of crude oil consumption.
      It is trio candidates for fast substitute: coal, gas, Heating Oil
      When oil consumption go down 4% (2008-2009), so prices go down from 140 to 43 USD per barrel
      What after 23% share will vanishing ?

      • Omega Z

        Guru
        Heating oil is less the 6% of U.S. market & that is for about 1/3rd of the year. I have no Idea how much heating oil is used in the rest of the world.

        However the full picture isn’t clear. I believe most of the Propane used in the U.S. is derived from petroleum as a byproduct. But, Ultimately, it’s not that important at this time. It will take many years before LENR makes a major impact on crude oil.

        Even those investigating LENR cars are looking at a 20 year time frame. You’ll see electric cars charged by E-cats long before E-cat powered cars. It’s simply because of the nature of the technology at this time. Long start times conclude the need for 24/7 operation to be useful for an average of an hours use per day for most people. That’s a lot of heat to disperse. Likely well over a 100Kw in E-cat power. Batteries will still be needed. It would be simpler, easier & cheaper to just stick with an electric car hopefully with a fast charge 1000 mile range.

        Likely Scenario: Fossil fuels prices will drop initially.
        Because, Like many here, they will be uninformed just exactly how it will effect them. Once realizing it will be a decades long transition, prices will recover. Even Coal for the immediate future.

        Long term(20+ years out) energy prices will decline, but most of those prices are not set in stone today. Loses will be minimal.
        Even Hard assets-Most of the Power plants etc in the world are near end of life cycle. Many are in need of replacement. Whether replaced on site or replaced by smaller distributed systems, Losses will be minimal. Historically speaking, This is a good time for this technology to present itself. Disruption & losses will be minimized. All considered, you could conclude this technology is arriving just in time.

        • Doug Cutler

          Isn’t the price of oil and gas to large degree set by speculation on future profits? Won’t this be mostly removed in the advent of commercial grade CF?

          • bachcole

            Yes.

          • Broncobet

            No ,of course not. It’s supply and demand.

        • Broncobet

          It’s far easier to make a steam car than any other path,original cars worked this way, but you need a working ECAT which it turns out isn’t so easy.

          • Omega Z

            I think there will eventually be some as novelties, But it’s not so easy a path. You still need AC electricity. A Turbine/generator, batteries, condenser & other miscellaneous items.
            It’s the need for electricity that holds back many a ideas. That & hours for start up time.

      • Broncobet

        We don’t use much heating oil but it’s a gigantic market because it’s diesel, but diesel is taxed and heating oil is not the mafia made billions by substituting one for another.

    • Fibb

      Upon reveal, oil prices are likely to spike up and down not drift down imo. If expensive and low EROEI production projects are curtailed (because the LENR writing is on the wall) at the same time that there is still a trillion dollar market demand for oil an gas… the price could easily skyrocket at times…. expect a lot of volatility in energy prices and balance sheet / share price chaos.

    • Fibb

      Frank can you restore my reply to PD? It disappeared.

  • bachcole

    Nice post, Frank. It is very encouraging. Despite my rock solid conviction, it is still nice to get such a strong confirmation. I will tell my son.

  • bachcole

    Nice post, Frank. It is very encouraging. Despite my rock solid conviction, it is still nice to get such a strong confirmation. I will tell my son.

    • Jouni Tuomela

      Agreed. But I wont tell my son, he has had enough of cold fusion by now. 🙁 Sorry Jouko!

    • Mats002

      I told my son this spring. He held a speach in school about the promises of CF and was rewarded by the teacher with the highest rating, the big A.

      • bachcole

        My son has slyly mentioned it in discussion, but nothing formal.

        I withheld believing in the E-Cat until the 2013 Levi et. al. test results partly because I just could not allow myself to look like a fool to my son. Being a good father includes being someone that one’s children can be proud of.

  • bkrharold

    The positive TIP report from last year should have been sufficient to convince anyone with an open mind of the reality of LENR. The extended TIP test, due to be released soon, will be conclusive proof of the commercial viability of the E-Cat. I welcome the Chinese interest in the E-Cat. It will put the USA in the position of having to embrace this new technology or risk falling far behind the rest of the world. We can no longer allow ourselves to be held hostage by the fossil fuel industry, and their campaign to deny climate change.

    • LookMoo

      The good things is how this LENR can be introduced without disrupting current systems. Mr Rossi was initially very upbeat about pre-heaters for powerplants that with little effort could be upgraded with ecat to boost energy efficiency several times… overnight..

  • Bernie777

    My sons Tesla has a 325 mile range.

    • bkrharold

      Tesla looks very interesting but a bit too expensive for me. I hear they are working on a cheaper model with the same range. There is a German auto company with a novel battery technology called the nanoflowcell

      http://www.nanoflowcell.com/en#home

  • Christopher Calder

    I think the odds of a intentional scam are extremely low given the character of their scientists and staff. That leaves some kind of incredible measuring error made by at least three different independent companies, also a low probability. The malleability of the atom has been underestimated by mainstream science. Just because something is a new finding does not make it wrong. No sane scientists would try to have nuclear fission at room temperature. Solar Hydrogen Trends claim they discovered the process by accident and then perfected it. Their staff members do have a history in the gold and jewelery industry, so their story holds water. They were looking to find new ways to process gold bearing ore, and accidentally produced hydrogen gas in the process.

    • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

      Not sure if an e-cat in a car would work, possibly it needs a stable environment and a car in motion is not exactly stable. I also seem to recall Rossi having doubts about an e-cat for automobiles

      • BroKeeper

        This is all very fascinating, but how is possible to eliminate all classes? The only way I know of is to change the human heart, a power reserved for another infinitely above my pay grade.

        • bachcole

          LOL. Don’t worry. She/He/It serves for free. (:->)

          • BroKeeper

            Darn, now you know how much I make.

        • bachcole

          We can’t eliminate all classes. But, in order to avoid revolutions, cruelty, and society’s missing out on the diamonds in the mud, society should be structured in such a way as to encourage a hierarchy of merit and to encourage incentive. Other than that, classes should be discouraged.

          • orsobubu

            Roger, you’ve to excuse me because I didn’t read your email dating back in march. In these cases usually I give an address different from my business address, and I check it only some times during the year. Sorry. I’ll reply soon, even if you are no more interested.

            Then, IMHO you should be better matching counter-revolutions with cruelty, instead of revolutions, that are so a rare event in history.

          • GreenWin

            We might, in these discussion of social structures overlook human and others’ affection for… competition. Not only in the form of political states/cultures, but in every day life: grabbing that parking space, playing Scrabble, financial and athletic “prize wins,” often by exploiting lesser cultures. The world we experience around us, more and more mainstream physicists tell us, is a computer generated illusion. A hologram. A false reality. Therefore, who really cares what happens in an illusory world? Only those who created the illusion to entertain themselves. The spoiled, intergalactic children of lesser gods. When their supplicant avatars no longer “play” or care about the game (which is fundamental to entertainment) — the whole house of cards collapses.

            As it should IMO. As it is now a flimsy house created by those who disrespect emergent cultures, in pursuit of profit and self-aggrandizement. And we are to believe this adolescent behavior derives from an evolved elite or “star” people?? LOL! Greed, the “human” disease, is inexplicably endemic to much of the intelligent universe.

  • Omega Z

    Guru
    Heating oil is less the 6% of U.S. market & that is for about 1/3rd of the year. I have no Idea how much heating oil is used in the rest of the world.

    However the full picture isn’t clear. I believe most of the Propane used in the U.S. is derived from petroleum as a byproduct. But, Ultimately, it’s not that important at this time. It will take many years before LENR makes a major impact on crude oil.

    Even those investigating LENR cars are looking at a 20 year time frame. You’ll see electric cars charged by E-cats long before E-cat powered cars. It’s simply because of the nature of the technology at this time. Long start times conclude the need for 24/7 operation to be useful for an average of an hours use per day for most people. That’s a lot of heat to disperse. Likely well over a 100Kw in E-cat power. Batteries will still be needed. It would be simpler, easier & cheaper to just stick with an electric car hopefully with a fast charge 1000 mile range.

    Likely Scenario: Fossil fuels prices will drop initially.
    Because, Like many here, they will be uninformed just exactly how it will effect them. Once realizing it will be a decades long transition, prices will recover. Even Coal for the immediate future.

    Long term(20+ years out) energy prices will decline, but most of those prices are not set in stone today. Loses will be minimal.
    Even Hard assets-Most of the Power plants etc in the world are near end of life cycle. Many are in need of replacement. Whether replaced on site or replaced by smaller distributed systems, Losses will be minimal. Historically speaking, This is a good time for this technology to present itself. Disruption & losses will be minimized. All considered, you could conclude this technology is arriving just in time.

    • Doug Cutler

      Isn’t the price of oil and gas to large degree set by speculation on future profits? Won’t this be mostly removed in the advent of commercial grade CF?

  • Andy Kumar

    Mucho confusion, as we say here in California.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Way off topic but I wanted to get this thought down.

    Perhaps it is the infrared (heat) SYMETRTICAL stretching of the nickel hydride bonds that causes nickel(64) hydride to absorb its protons and go directly to zinc(66) in an excited state and then the nucleus of zinc dissipates its energy by fissioning into nickel(62) and helium.

    H~~Ni(64)~~H > Zn(66)* > Ni(62) + He(4) 11.8 MeV (no gamma rays)

    Explanation of what occurs at a molecular level during absorption of IR by molecules:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xITzGUjongU

  • timycelyn

    I tried a little fishing on Rossi’s blog this morning, trying to get a sense of how the 1MW plant was doing at the customer prepmises.

    “Dear Andrea,
    now that the 1MW plant has been delivered to your Customer, are you able to return to focusing your attention on the rest of the research you are pursuing, or does the 1MW plant still take up your time?”

    Needless to say, I got a reply that goes straight down the middle and could be taken a number of ways:

    “Timycelyn1:
    I will have to control the operation of the 1 MW plant closely, but also participate to the R&D.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    However, if the 1MW unit was giving big issues at the customer at this point, I would have expected a different type of reply, something along the line of “Totally focussed on this for the time being. No time to play with R&D”

    This feels to me like “Early days, going OK so far, but I’m keeping a darn close eye on it….”

  • Omega Z

    I think there will eventually be some as novelties, But it’s not so easy a path. You still need AC electricity. A Turbine/generator, batteries, condenser & other miscellaneous items.
    It’s the need for electricity that holds back many a ideas. That & hours for start up time.