E-Cat Rumor from a Possible Insider (COP High Enough for ‘Energy Revolution’)

There has been some interesting discussion here on E-Cat World today involving an ECW reader who goes by the name of Paul. I thought I would put the conversation in a separate thread as the current report thread is getting quite crowded. It should be understood that the identity of Paul is unknown, and naturally caution should be taken when dealing with anonymous posts. Paul here states that he and I have interacted, but I do not know his identity.

Paul
Nevanlinna is a smart guy who follows this story from the beginning and frequently publish interesting information he finds on public databases. I have seen photos of the interior of an Hot Cat, but obviously these photos are not public. The photos published by Nevanlinna are less significant, however I do not know how he can have such photos.

ecatworld Admin (aka Frank Acland)
It would be interesting to know how you have seen non-public photos of the E-Cat 🙂

Paul
Because I know the person who made the photos and I was authorized to see them. I prefer not to say more know, even if there are many pieces of this story which are not publicly known and that should. Many of the people involved in this story have something to say but they choose not to speak for the moment. They are sensible topics and there are big interests on the table, so I understand them. There are many information that I and other person cannot give in public, in the future I wiil give what I can, but what I am free to say is not so much. I prefer to be anonymous even if I have anything to hide, so you can choose if believe me or not. I know you personally and say you thanks for this blog and for letting me contribute a little, but I prefer not say why and when we interacted in the past.

LENR G
Paul, Assuming you can be taken at your word and that you have some insider info, what confidence levels do you have that:

1 – The E-Cat is capable of producing at least 3x energy input
2 – The E-Cat has a COP > 10
3 – The ITPR2 will be released before November

Since you are anonymous and answers would only represent your personal opinion you can share this info. And we’d like to get your take on things.

I’m somewhere around 99%, 50%, 70% respectively.

Paul
1, 2-Yes 99% (if you remember the old Focardi-Rossi paper, at the beginning the COP was 200, thereinafter the development of the E-Cat has been essentially focused in stabilizing the reaction and avoid neutron production, so the COP has been reduced opportunely, but however now is high enough to produce an energy revolution; in the first two answers, I left a 1% of doubt because, as you know, officially the TPR2 can be positive or negative…); 3-Yes 100%

  • Christopher Calder

    So, English must not be Paul’s first language. Maybe he is Italian?

    • My guess would be a Finn or a Swede since his associate Nevanlinna seems associated with Finland. Just a guess though and I respect his desire for anonymity so I’m not going to try and figure it out.

      • GreenWin

        Navanlinna is a rather famous Finnish mathemetician for whom the Rolf Nevanlinna Prize is awarded every four years.

        • Jouni

          off topic:
          Navanlinna translated is a castle in the bellybutton,
          Nevanlinna means like a castle in a swamp.
          In finish.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Rolf was not alone. One Nevanlinna, a geophysicist, told me that half of Nevanlinnas are mathematicians and the rest are mad.

          • GreenWin

            Hah! I guess Olavi is one of the mathematicians.

      • Omega Z

        Navanlinna is Italian or at least someone who lives there according to info in blog posts.

        • Interesting. Guess I should do less guessing!

    • LucaS

      Please dont’be too choosy… It would be much worse if you would try to write in italian… trust me!

  • So, English must not be Paul’s first language. Maybe he is Italian?

    • My guess would be a Finn or a Swede since his associate Nevanlinna seems associated with Finland. Just a guess though and I respect his desire for anonymity so I’m not going to try and figure it out.

      • GreenWin

        Navanlinna is a rather famous Finnish mathemetician for whom the Rolf Nevanlinna Prize is awarded every four years.

        • Jouni Tuomela

          off topic:
          Navanlinna translated is a castle in the bellybutton,
          Nevanlinna means like a castle in a swamp.
          In finnish.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          Rolf was not alone. One Nevanlinna, a geophysicist, told me that half of Nevanlinnas are mathematicians and the rest are mad.

          • GreenWin

            Hah! I guess Olavi is one of the mathematicians.

      • Omega Z

        Navanlinna is Italian or at least someone who lives there according to info in blog posts.

        • Interesting. Guess I should do less guessing!

        • clovis ray

          Hi, Omega.
          Anyone ever thought to just ask him,Paul, what country he comes from, surly that not a secret.

    • LucaS

      Please dont’be too choosy… It would be much worse if you would try to write in italian… trust me!

  • Jonnyb

    Has Rossi seen the report yet?

    • On JONP Rossi lately said he expects the report in oktober. So I guess he has not saw it yet.

      • Timar

        True, he makes mistakes typical for a native speaker of a Latin language, just like Rossi does. I’m pretty sure he is an Italian.

  • Jonnyb

    Has Rossi seen the report yet?

    • On JONP Rossi lately said he expects the report in oktober. So I guess he has not saw it yet.

      • Timar

        True, he makes mistakes typical for a native speaker of a Latin language, just like Rossi does. I’m pretty sure he is an Italian.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Rossi/Focardi have even reported a COP of 415 in one of their experiments. I always thought that they reduced the COP only for stability reasons. If the avoidance of radiation had been an additional motive, one could guess that there are possibly two different reactions, or classes of reactions. The first reaction would already release energy, but not enough to ignite the second reaction, as long as the COP does not exceed a certain limit. The second stage could be a ‘classical’ CF process, which would nevertheless be undesired.

    • Omega Z

      From information gleaned overtime, it appears Rossi & Focardi intentionally induced runaway reactions many times. No doubt this was in trying to understand the mechanisms at work.

      In 1 of those tests, it is stated that they detected neutrons & was at a conservative COP>200. Back of envelope it appeared to me that it was much closer to 300. A Regular on JONP also came to this conclusion.

      Rossi has since always stated the effect is intrinsically safe, as when the nickel melts, the reaction stops. I assume Rossi & Focardi figured out the cause of these neutron emissions & remediated it.
      I can only imagine certain entities or agencies will be very interested in this detail, If they haven’t already checked it out.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        The power output from a Cop of > 200 must be tremendous. No doubt all sorts of parties are interested in that. I imagine that kind of power makes rockets feasible.

        I really hope the hot-cat produces a COP of > 10. Power generation and commercialization should be so much easier at that level.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Rossi/Focardi have even reported a COP of 415 in one of their experiments. I always thought that they reduced the COP only for stability reasons. If the avoidance of radiation had been an additional motive, one could guess that there are possibly two different reactions, or classes of reactions. The first reaction would already release energy, but not enough to ignite the second reaction, as long as the COP does not exceed a certain limit. The second stage could be a ‘classical’ CF process, which would nevertheless be undesired.

    • Omega Z

      From information gleaned overtime, it appears Rossi & Focardi intentionally induced runaway reactions many times. No doubt this was in trying to understand the mechanisms at work.

      In 1 of those tests, it is stated that they detected neutrons & was at a conservative COP>200. Back of envelope it appeared to me that it was much closer to 300. A Regular on JONP also came to this conclusion.

      Rossi has since always stated the effect is intrinsically safe, as when the nickel melts, the reaction stops. I assume Rossi & Focardi figured out the cause of these neutron emissions & remediated it.
      I can only imagine certain entities or agencies will be very interested in this detail, If they haven’t already checked it out.

      • HHiram

        I wonder if other metal nanopowders with extremely high melting points could provide the same reaction space/conditions as the nickel that Rossi is using and the palladium that others have also used. Tungsten, for example, has a melting point of 3422 °C, or 6192 °F.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi has indicated on several occasion of working with different nano materials. I assume he just went with what provided the best results in the shortest time frame. And if I Recall correctly(?) he did get some limited results from other metals.
          By the way, I understand that Industrial Heat owns those rights also if Rossi should develop them to a usable level. When Rossi sold his technology to them, It included past, present & future development IP.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        The power output from a Cop of > 200 must be tremendous. No doubt all sorts of parties are interested in that. I imagine that kind of power makes rockets feasible.

        I really hope the hot-cat produces a COP of > 10. Power generation and commercialization should be so much easier at that level.

    • Andy Kumar

      With Focardi’s passing, some knowledge has been lost. Probably his optimal waveform. That is why they are struggling to get a good COP now. We lost Fermat’s last theorem. It took hundreds of years to prove it again.

      • GreenWin

        I like the way you couch this Andy. Sort of like “The Lost Ark” or “Lost City.” Much more action potential in “Lost” narratives.

      • Omega Z

        Andy
        How can you lose something that would be built into hardware operated by software. It didn’t die with him.

        • clovis ray

          absolutely, correct and Dr. Rossi, did his first test, so that Dr. focardi would know that their baby was preforming as expected, and that he has changed the world, with his work, before his demise. very honorable I thought, but this is really just the way they are, people with great vision, I myself feel honored just to know then.

  • Gerald

    If this is true the Rossi saga I loved so much in the last 3 tests will only be a preface in the book of energy and material enginering. Amazing time in human history. Hope we do well.

  • Gerald

    If this is true the Rossi saga I loved so much in the last 3 tests will only be a preface in the book of energy and material enginering. Amazing time in human history. Hope we do well.

  • Billy Jackson

    If you left off the name Paul and just said an Anonymous individual sent us pictures with the answer as you have posted them. I would swear that reading that sounds exactly like Rossi and the way he types English.

  • Billy Jackson

    If you left off the name Paul and just said an Anonymous individual sent us pictures with the answer as you have posted them. I would swear that reading that sounds exactly like Rossi and the way he types English.

    • andrea.s

      As an Italian myself, I can easily tell Paul is Italian by the common little mistakes most Italians do when speaking English. By the way another Paul also posts in perfect Italian on 22passi, an Italian blog of LENR enthusiasts some of whom know Rossi personally and attended the demos.

  • Daniel Maris

    Well if this Paul is genuine, that’s great…it would be wonderful to have the veil of secrecy lifted and hear such straightforward observations and explanations.

  • GreenWin

    The previous TIP report was preceded by leaked photos, as reported by ECW May 5th, 2013. http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/05/hot-hot-cat-picture/

  • Billy Jackson

    Over the last few days reading separate articles here on ECW and the reader comments, You can begin to feel the excitement build. We can pray and hope that the questions for the first tests brought the needed wisdom for the challenges this test will face.

    while the champagne hasn’t been popped yet… it most definitely is chilled and waiting. I will say that if it comes back negative the disappointment is going to be crushing for a lot of us.

    • Daniel Maris

      Well I certainly feel excitement at the prospect of hearing the test results but most people seem really to just walk away unless something’s happening…hence this site being about as exciting as a morgue right now!

      However I am sure that will indeed change very soon…

      But most of all I look forward to some extensive info on the E Cat being used in a pilot operation.

  • Billy Jackson

    Over the last few days reading separate articles here on ECW and the reader comments, You can begin to feel the excitement build. We can pray and hope that the questions for the first tests brought the needed wisdom for the challenges this test will face.

    while the champagne hasn’t been popped yet… it most definitely is chilled and waiting. I will say that if it comes back negative the disappointment is going to be crushing for a lot of us.

  • GreenWin

    I like the way you couch this Andy. Sort of like “The Lost Ark” or “Lost City.” Much more action potential in “Lost” narratives.

  • bachcole

    As exciting and encouraging as this, let us remember that it is a rumor.

    • pelgrim108

      Im glad the rumor has a very positif implication. Self looping will be possible with COP 11 or higher.

  • bachcole

    Paul is not a native English speaker.

    • Veblin

      That is what he wants you to think.

      • HS61AF91

        he velly keve!

  • clovis ray

    I agree, BJ, and just to add, this is so important they must and will get it right, second best will not get it done, no losers in this group, that i can discern.

  • Ophelia Rump

    What is the point of posting these anonymous these rumors of things we already know?
    Is there some value added here?

    There is no difference between this and a feedback loop.

    • GreenWin

      Don’t count on it? If we use an abacus?

    • Veblin

      Paul has no credibility. It is just a game to see what he can get away with here then brag about it on ECN.

  • Ophelia Rump

    What is the point of posting these anonymous rumors of things we already know?
    Is there some value added here?
    There is no difference between this and a feedback loop.

    Nevanlinna has provided value added, and this earns Nevanlinna credibility.
    Nevanlinna is the person you should be interviewing.

    Paul should provide something of substance if he wants credibility, even if it is not yet verifiable.
    Then if it is verified it will have credibility. What is the point of posting fuzzy rumors which will never validate or invalidate the source? Especially when the source will not provide anything revealing.
    That is no source at all.

    I have a new source, Ask 8 Ball
    http://www.ask8ball.net/

    Interview:
    _______________________________
    Q, Will the E-Cat be released this month
    A, Outlook not so good
    Q, Will the COP be between 1 and 10.
    A, Don’t count on it.
    Q, So it will be between 10 and 100?
    A, Ask again later
    Q, Will this cause an energy revolution?
    A, Most likely
    Q,Will it produce between one thousand and two thousand percent more energy out than in?
    A,Most likely

    OK Paul, there is your standard for credibility. Outperform the Magic 8 Ball.

    • Andy Kumar

      <>
      Based on first answer, shouldn’t the second answer be: “You must be day dreaming!”

      • Ophelia Rump

        You can’t argue with a Magic 8 Ball. They are inanimate objects.

    • GreenWin

      Don’t count on it? If we use an abacus?

    • Gerald

      I think I saw Paul last night… 😉

      http://youtu.be/gfNLzPKSiQw

      maybe rumours reveal no facts and for soms are anoying, but these kind of anonymous comments is the same as last time just before the report game out. Image you have to keep a secret till a specific date. Human nature is that most love to tell something. Little moments.of fame. This will continue and then stop for a few days and the report is there.

    • Veblin

      Paul has no credibility. It is just a game to see what he can get away with here then brag about it on ECN.

  • pelgrim108

    Im glad the rumor has a very positif implication. Self looping will be possible with COP 11 or higher.

  • Lui Dussan

    If lowering the cop prevents the creation of neutrons that’s a double edged sword. On the one hand it can be made safe. But on the other it can be made deadly. That would complicate things greatly. Cheap energy yes but also cheap weapons.

    • clovis ray

      It can only melt down, not blow up, or cause radiation, there is no radiation as weaponry.
      Quit trying to make something out of nothing .

      • LCD

        The point was made by Levi that it may have produced neutrons when it melted down. See the phi zero video.
        So if true it could present a problem.

      • Lui Dussan

        Ok Clovis, whatever.

    • US_Citizen71

      Neutron radiation being both deadly and hard to block would make your hypothesized weapon deadly both to the target and the wielder. Likely it would be more deadly to the wielder as they would be closer to the source and receive larger doses at higher energy levels than the target.

      The neutron production does have one positive use, destruction of fissionable materials in a nextgen reactor like the GENIE.

      • Lui Dussan

        Us citizen I could remotely turn it on so that’s not an issue. Clovis I take it your not a physics guy so I will respond with that assumption.

        While it’s an educated guess that it won’t blow up hypothetically it could produce significant amounts of neutrons at a controlled but high COP without ever melting down.

        • US_Citizen71

          The problem with remotely controlling your hypothetical weapon is radiation plays havoc with electronics. You could turn it on and the radiation could block any further control, it could even make servos randomly activate resulting in the weapon aiming itself at you.

          Edit: After further thought I’m not sure it would make a weapon worth researching. Creation of high energy neutrons is not something new. None of the other ways of producing them have been weaponized outside of a nuclear weapon and this effect doesn’t chain react. So, you would be left with creating a weak form of a hellbore. (Hellbore: A military science fiction creation that uses large mass, magnetic confinement and/or unobtainium to make a canon shaped reaction chamber that focuses a fission, fusion or antimatter explosion in to a stream.) It would likely be good at causing cancer at distance but wouldn’t be very destructive. It also would be easy to detect and target by a military force. It might be useful to secretly kill off the neighbor that lives in the ranch three miles down the road that keeps making passes at the wife but it would not be a great front line weapon.

          • bachcole

            Thank God. Can I put this hysteria to rest now?

          • LCD

            Aiming? Once it’s remotely started the perpetrator won’t care. It’s a valid point. Look at the Genie, it lends credence to the idea that neutron generation is a likely stable state. Having to police a world where your average Joe can create a dirty bomb like that so to speak would be difficult.

            I don’t think anybody is saying we outlaw LENR but we have to be aware of the consequences and figure out ways to mitigate them.

          • US_Citizen71

            It’s not a bomb and couldn’t be a bomb no chain reaction. It’s more like a microwave oven with the door taken off or a large solid piece of radioactive material. Nothing to spread around it would just emit Neutrons.

          • LCD

            So the “so to speak” didn’t do it for you. Use whatever you want, it’s possibly quick and dirty and would kill or hurt people.

            If you want to bury your head in the sand go for it but I’d rather go in eyes wide open.

          • Andreas Moraitis

            The bad message is that it could be much simpler. Just think of the possibility of creating dangerous radioactive isotopes by LENR. There is no option to withdraw all suitable materials from the market, and hydrogen can be produced easily by electrolysis, for example. The only way to prevent an abuse would be keeping the methods secret. That might be possible for a while, but certainly not forever.

          • LCD

            Good point Andreas. I think for starters a world full of radiation/patricle detectors could be the future.

          • Broncobet

            That future is now as radiation and particle detectors are ubiquitous.

          • LCD

            None of those other ways are possibly as easy as this and we have no idea of th amount or energies of the neutron production. Again we just need to be aware of the possible problem not go into panic mode.

          • US_Citizen71

            No none of them are easily done that is why the neutron death ray is science fiction, just like your hypothetical weaponized ECat.

          • LCD

            Okay pal, if the ecat is not science fiction then neither is this, don’t you agree?

          • US_Citizen71

            Nope.

          • LCD

            Okay that is all I needed t know to guage your level of competence.

            If you don’t have the background to intellectually stay in a conversation just say so. No need to show your ignorance.

          • US_Citizen71

            Nuclear weapons are quite real there are many videos available to show what a detonation looks like, the knowledge to build one is easily obtainable today. But, no one has yet made a hellbore. Why? Technical and engineering challenges exceed our ability to make one. So does that mean that nukes must be science fiction since we can’t make a hellbore?

          • LCD

            What does that have to do with anything I’ve said

          • US_Citizen71

            Just using the same circular logic as “if the ecat is not science fiction then neither is this,”!

          • LCD

            And you are ok with that?

          • US_Citizen71

            OK with what?

          • LCD

            Secretly killing your neighbor, lol.

          • US_Citizen71

            That was simply a metaphorical creation. I didn’t want to make a political statement by choosing a bad guy, so I used a universal motivator, protecting one’s mate.

          • LCD

            Your missing the point

          • US_Citizen71

            You had a point?!

          • LCD

            Only that I’m wasting my time talking to a ninth grader

          • Broncobet

            I remember forty years ago in my brothers room,he had all the catalogues for solid state electronics,if you wanted the ones they use on missles with A bombs going off they were a lot more expensive ,but they’d survive and do their job.

          • Lui Dussan

            Come on buddy, if you knew any thing about physics you’ll know it can be weaponized

      • bachcole

        Thank you for quashing that bit of hysteria.

      • LCD

        You could remote start it

        • bachcole

          Yes, so I guess technological advances won’t guarantee that people will automatically become morally advanced. Dang!!!

    • Omega Z

      This Neutron production only happens under unique conditions during a runaway situation of which the device self destructs in seconds.
      Tho not something you want, the Neutron production must be of a very limited nature as Rossi is still with us. Also note that Neutron’s were detected in only (1) specific Unique case.
      Rocks would probably be a better & more dependable weapon.

      • Lui Dussan

        We actually don’t know enough about it to make any safety comments

  • Bernie777

    How about us hiring a private detective to follow Rossi or one of IH employees to the new E-cat installation site and then interview some of the employees at that site to see how things are going? I’ve got 20 bucks burning a hole in my pocket for that project. (:

    • Owen Geiger

      Let’s allow them to work peace so they can change the world.

    • Omega Z

      Mmm, lets not. I’d hate to inadvertently cause additional delays.

    • Private Citizen

      If Rossi is anything like “for real,” can you imagine the number of international government and/or corporate espionage/sabotage efforts there would be? They would know more about his devices than him by now, unless he has rock-solid security that can stand up to the NSA, FSB, Chinese national hackers and spies, GCHQ and hundreds of other well heeled entities with $trillion interests and national security at stake.

      If real, this is no softball game.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    How about us hiring a private detective to follow Rossi or one of IH employees to the new E-cat installation site and then interview some of the employees at that site to see how things are going? I’ve got 20 bucks burning a hole in my pocket for that project. (:

    • Owen Geiger

      Let’s allow them to work peace so they can change the world.

    • Omega Z

      Mmm, lets not. I’d hate to inadvertently cause additional delays.

    • Private Citizen

      If Rossi is anything like “for real,” can you imagine the number of international government and/or corporate espionage/sabotage efforts there would be? They would know more about his devices than him by now, unless he has rock-solid security that can stand up to the NSA, FSB, Chinese national hackers and spies, GCHQ and hundreds of other well heeled entities with $trillion interests and national security at stake.

      If real, this is no softball game.

      • bachcole

        Rossi has one security measure that NO amount of high tech equipment or 007s can penetrate. Disbelief. Too many people don’t believe him. In fact, 99% of all people on Planet Earth either actively don’t believe him or don’t know anything about him or don’t care. So-called “real” is limited to what people believe is real.

        • Andy Kumar

          “In fact, 99% of all people on Planet Earth either actively don’t believe him or don’t know anything about him or don’t care.”
          I think you are overestimating the believers to be 1% of the population. My guess is no more than 100 people in the whole world believe there is anything to it. Half of them may be on this site.

        • Private Citizen

          Blind belief and disbelief are both hard to penetrate. Most readers here probably believe there was an academic and/or governmental conspiracy to cover up Pons and Fleschman’s discovery. I do.

          Now we want to suspend belief that governments or corporate interests might want to spy on Rossi because they don’t believe in cold fusion or have never heard of eCat? NASA, US Navy, Mitsubishi, MIT, several other top universities with LENR divisions, all know about cold fusion progress, but the reputed leader in the field about to commercialize is ignored for some reason? That disbelief is hard to penetrate.

          • bachcole

            I believe that there was an academic and/or governmental conspiracy to debunk Pons and Fleschmann because they sincerely did not believe in P&F and did not want any money spent trying to even investigate it.

          • Private Citizen

            The late Dr. Eugene Mallove’s testamony is that replication results were doctored at MIT to hide evidence of excess energy:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6y98YwJ2GEE#t=268

          • bachcole

            I believe you and I believe him. But that does not necessarily mean that those that did the doctoring (I love the word “doctoring'” as a deeply pejorative insult!) believed that the data proved that LENR+ was real. Given that the data went against their dearly beloved physics “laws”, they could have just as easily felt that the data was the result of incompetence or error and that they wanted to put to bed this “nonsense”. And remember, they and their mentors had spent the previous 30 years dealing with bullshit and big pay checks. So, I do not see malicious intent. I do see scientific malfeasance and stupidity. But when you have 30 years of failure, it is difficult to see a possible success.

            But to then turn around a castigate P & F, that still frosts my cookies.

          • HS61AF91

            the difference is the internet evolving into a knowledge transference. Pon and Fleish came before it. There is no stopping the outing of new energy now.

        • Broncobet

          No one believed in atomic weapons and they went off fine, anything that produces a lot of energy can be weaponised .

          • Jim Anderson

            The LENR or QUAR device is limited by the fact that too much energy in one place at one time and the nickel melts and ends the reaction. I worry that the transmutation aspect of these devices could be used to produce fissionable material. Rossi has focused on energy production not transmutation. Others have focused on transmutation. Widem Larsen theory seems to indicate that fissionable material could be produced. Rossi’s device

            couldn’t do that but other Quar devices might be able do that. Also the human race seems to be able to figure out all sorts of things that go boom.

          • Broncobet

            You better hope you are wrong, because anything that produces or could produce ,fissionable materials will never see the light of day for obvious reasons. The NRC would regulate it and IH would need a billion dollars just to have a conversation with them. It would be easier to get advanced nuclear approved as at least the NRC has some experience with them. They do not like anything they have not seen before, so it would cost more and take longer. I think they’ve had a conversation with Rossi before and they probably figured it was a system that produced nothing, therefore not something the NRC would regulate.

          • Broncobet

            You are just stating what you imagine a machine you have never seen and has never been accurately described to you ,would act in your imagination.I understand you are only doing what others are doing here but my question to you is how can that be helpful at all as it nothing to do with anything.”LENR QUAR nickel melts ends reaction fissionable transmute windom Larsen Rossi Devise” Where if you had to describe what happens when you turn the key in your car I bet you would give an intelligent, accurate, technical, expanation.

      • Mark Szl

        I do not think anyone “big” was to do anything but wait. Once released they can see if the thing works then just backward engineer the device and reproduce and extend it at a far larger scale than Rossi’s group. So why waste spy type resources on something they are skeptical about?

        • Private Citizen

          >So why waste spy type resources on something they are skeptical about?

          That is what spy resources are for, to gain intelligence on commercially or militarily exploitable technology. My caveat is “if Rossi is anything like for real,” which these nations and interests might have decided he isn’t early on, based upon their vast intelligence resources.

          The most important, disruptive, technology since the invention of fire, with the potential to bankrupt petroleum oligopolies and nations, to reinvent warfare, transportation, farming, civilization itself, might just might fall into the category of urgent intelligence– not let’s just wait and see.

  • Veblin

    Is he Paul or is he JohnPaul?
    ECN skeptic JohnP who likes to mess with ECW. Remember him for his previous Pierre Ordinare (GreenWin Says) posts or his Hope4Dbest guest Submit a Post, Requesting a name change for LENR to QUAR before saying Punked You.

    John.
    September 18, 2014 at 2:30 am
    “Paul” is someone who hopes for the best.

    JohnP
    September 18, 2014 at 2:42 am
    BTW, does anybody know how QUAR is doing?

    JohnP
    September 18, 2014 at 3:28 am
    C’mon, guys! “Paul” is not the dreaded General, OK.
    Do you Believers need this in Mandarin?

    • Omega Z

      Veblin
      Yes, Just 1 of several that play there head games here.
      This makes them feel smarter then others giving themselves an Ego boost. This is usually associated with low self esteem & a realization of their insignificant importance in the real world.
      Let them have their fun. It’s all they have in life…

    • Ophelia Rump

      So are suggesting that maybe he is really the dead Pope JohnPaul? Who is not actually dead, just escaped from his Vatican handlers, and trying to get his message out to the world? Well that is certainly a more interesting story, that would be worth listening to.

    • andrea.s

      Hi Veblin,

      no I am not an ECN member, I am not a believer (rather : interested but cautious), but I dislike the sneers of the ECN folks.

      But I feel like I don’t belong here, so I will stop at 24 hours and 5 total posts and leave.

      As someone would put it : Warm Regards, and thanks to F.A. for the hospitality.

  • Veblin

    Is he Paul or is he really JohnPaul?
    ECN skeptic JohnP likes to mess with ECW. Remember him from his previous Pierre Ordinare (GreenWin Says) posts or his Hope4Dbest guest post,
    Change of Name from LENR is an Urgent Necessity (Guest Post) August 6, 2014.
    Then posting on
    Rossi: Let’s Switch from LENR to QUAR August 10, 2014
    before posting the now deleted Punked You messages.

    JohnP
    September 18, 2014 at 2:30 am
    “Paul” is someone who hopes for the best.

    JohnP
    September 18, 2014 at 2:42 am
    BTW, does anybody know how QUAR is doing?

    JohnP
    September 18, 2014 at 3:28 am
    C’mon, guys! “Paul” is not the dreaded General, OK.
    Do you Believers need this in Mandarin?

    Previous visits by JohnP sometimes included fellow ECN member JNewman playing the part of supporter Hector McNuget.
    Which ECN member is playing the part of just born 12 hour old 3 total post Paul supporter andrea.s?

    • Omega Z

      Veblin
      Yes, Just 1 of several that play there head games here.
      This makes them feel smarter then others giving themselves an Ego boost. This is usually associated with low self esteem & a realization of their insignificant importance in the real world.
      Let them have their fun. It’s all they have in life…

    • Ophelia Rump

      So are suggesting that maybe he is really the dead Pope JohnPaul? Who is not actually dead, just escaped from his Vatican handlers, and trying to get his message out to the world? Well that is certainly a more interesting story, that would be worth listening to.

    • andrea.s

      Hi Veblin,

      no I am not an ECN member, I am not a believer (rather : interested but cautious), but I dislike the sneers of the ECN folks.

      But I feel like I don’t belong here, so I will stop at 24 hours and 5 total posts and leave.

      As someone would put it : Warm Regards, and thanks to F.A. for the hospitality.

      • Andy Kumar

        Andrea,

        Thanks for the lead. I think, I need to stop following this, too much wasted time.

        Thank you Frank for tolerating moderately skeptical views.

        GreenWin, You can hold me to this promise or I will owe you a (root) beer.

        Happy wishful thinking to all!

        As someone would put it : Warm Regards,
        -Andy

    • Broncobet

      Oh yeah, I remember him, so they are just messing with us? That’s a little childish.

  • Veblin

    That is what he wants you to think.

    • mytakeis

      he velly keve!

  • The Reference to Neutron production is telling.
    This gives an area to research for others and a clue as to the process, eg one that is capable of producing Neutrons of an energy n.

    Neutron decay is: n0 → p+ + e− + νe.

    What energy such Neutrons have and where they decay would be a significant proportion of the energy in the reaction; depending on the process that creates such supposed Neutrons.

    MFMP had gamma bursts in their experiments and that has been reliably repeated both by them selves and other labs. For some time I have thought they were the equivalent of a car back firing that poisons the LENR and that for the reaction to be stable that it had to be prevented as well as for possible health reasons.

    If the Neutrons are literally Low Energy Neutrons then if the decay with the reaction chamber, and I am talking nanometres here, then they sustain the reaction if they are higher energy they spit out beyond the reaction then we see the classic gamma burst from Neutron decay outside the reactor and such Neutrons don’t feed the reaction.

    Now bear in mind that in such a reaction, Neutrons would probably be a bell curve of energies, some supporting the reaction other Neutrons exiting the reactor proper yet others decaying destructively to the LENR within reaction chamber THEN obtaining fine control of that Neutron energy is a goldilocks reaction! The porridge can be too HOT or too COLD but if it is just right the reaction maintains it self.

    Such a process of where the Neutrons decay would explain why LENR has been so hard to replicate reliably and Rossi’s secret catalyst is an addition that catalyses and decays the neutron at the correct JUST RIGHT goldilocks level.

    • LCD

      Requiring neutron feedback would help mitigate easy weaponization

  • malkom700

    While this is true, so thank you Paul. We can only hope that once you pretty get drunk and reveals a more.

  • Sounds like a impostor to me. No new information, but he assumes an air of importance.

  • Sounds like a impostor to me. No new information, but he assumes an air of importance.

  • Ophelia Rump

    You can’t argue with a Magic 8 Ball. They are inanimate objects.

  • timycelyn

    I regret t say that I am pretty suspicious of ‘Paul’ although a bit of me hopes he will come back and prove me wrong.

    1. This ‘high COP’ scene just does not mesh with the continuing attempts to take the ‘gas-cat’ forward, in spite of the difficulties it seems to have. If CP>20 one can just ignore the cost of electrical excitation.

    2. ‘Paul’ has not come forward yet to comment or address the suspicions others are expressing here.

    3. There is a frenzy of near-orgasm*c juvenile glee about the ‘Paul’ thing amongst those strange dysfunctional denizens of ECN, where at serious risk to my sanity I have just taken a brief look, including a significant piece on the subject from John P.

    Frank, I’m afraid we need to forget about this until we get something other than an anonymous rumour. I know in this ‘no news’ period it is incredibly tempting, but that just invites these sad cases (most of whom would benefit from lengthy therapy of some sort) to mess with us.

    Sorry!

    Tim

    • Ophelia Rump

      The gas Cat thing is more of a revelation of Rossi not completely knowing how the E-Cat works. There seems to be an extremely significant variable which electricity satisfies but gas does not. I do not see how failure of one precludes some arbitrary level of efficiency in the other. A COP of 100 would be less than .000001% of the potential COP.

      • timycelyn

        Hi Ophelia, the point I was trying to make was that I still struggle to believe that Rossi and Industrial heat would prioritise research on a Gas Cat (as opposed to it being something in the medium term to be looked at as a curiosity) if they had the more normal electrically ‘pumped’ E-Cat at the higher COPs that are currently being mentioned in this thread.

        Basically, if you have a higher COP available with current technology- my selection of >20 is arbitary, but I’m trying to say ‘A COP well more than the old official line of 6’ – then you wouldn’t mess with Gas Cats, with your limited research resources. You’d be very happy with what you had got for the time being – it would be good enough …….

        Ergo, as Rossi is looking at Gas Cats, this makes me sceptical (sadly – I hope I am going to be proved wrong…please!) of anonymous rumours of high COP E-Cat technology options and test results in the short term, and thereby sceptical of the veracity of these gung-ho comments from ‘Paul’.

        Not to say this technology cannot be refined in future to go to high COP,s as the early work cited in this forum suggests these are possible and even demonstrable in the lab.

        However, this seems currently to be a long way away from the safe and robust exploitable technology that Rossi and IH are assumed to be developing, and (another assumption) presumably more or less represented by the E-cats they supplied to the Independent Parties for test.

        Cheers

        Tim

        • Ophelia Rump

          Absolutely! You are spot on rational and reasonable.

    • fritz194

      1) I think the most interesting thing about this new technology is the potential achievable COP – and it seems to be infinite. It´s only a matter of excitation and neutron production tradeoff.
      If we take into account that we have just a few man-years of edisonian “engineering” on this “product” – we will see what the future brings.
      Because IH will introduce this technology – they need a serious and profitable use-case.
      A COP of 6 can be easily achieved with geothermal facilities – so an interesting scenario could be remote and isolated, compact units, driven of liquid gas or similar without needing any extra infrastructure.
      Having a use-case and cats sold – would enable a steady flow of revenue into more research, tuning and better COP.

      • Broncobet

        No no,if it works at all it doesn’t need any other input, that is all a distraction. All you would need is a battery.

    • Broncobet

      Darn, that’s a little disappointing, but accurate.

  • timycelyn

    I regret t say that I am pretty suspicious of ‘Paul’ although a bit of me hopes he will come back and prove me wrong.

    1. This ‘high COP’ scene just does not mesh with the continuing attempts to take the ‘gas-cat’ forward, in spite of the difficulties it seems to have. If CP>20 one can just ignore the cost of electrical excitation.

    2. ‘Paul’ has not come forward yet to comment or address the suspicions others are expressing here.

    3. There is a frenzy of near-orgasm*c juvenile glee about the ‘Paul’ thing amongst those strange dysfunctional denizens of ECN, where at serious risk to my sanity I have just taken a brief look, including a significant piece on the subject from John P.

    Frank, I’m afraid we need to forget about this until we get something other than an anonymous rumour. I know in this ‘no news’ period it is incredibly tempting, but that just invites these sad cases (most of whom would benefit from lengthy therapy of some sort) to mess with us.

    Sorry!

    Tim

    • Ophelia Rump

      The gas Cat thing is more of a revelation of Rossi not completely knowing how the E-Cat works. There seems to be an extremely significant variable which electricity satisfies but gas does not. I do not see how failure of one precludes some arbitrary level of efficiency in the other. A COP of 100 would be less than .000001% of the potential COP.
      So what makes a difference of COP 5 and COP 20 any more or less significantly likely?
      The two values are so close together on the range of potential values as to be approximately identical.

      It should be expected that there are a number of variables which he has not controlled.
      The technology is in it’s infancy. Consider the airplane of the Wright Brothers, and it’s resemblance to an Apache Helicopter.

      • timycelyn

        Hi Ophelia, the point I was trying to make was that I still struggle to believe that Rossi and Industrial heat would prioritise research on a Gas Cat (as opposed to it being something in the medium term to be looked at as a curiosity) if they had the more normal electrically ‘pumped’ E-Cat at the higher COPs that are currently being mentioned in this thread.

        Basically, if you have a higher COP available with current technology- my selection of >20 is arbitary, but I’m trying to say ‘A COP well more than the old official line of 6’ – then you wouldn’t mess with Gas Cats, with your limited research resources. You’d be very happy with what you had got for the time being – it would be good enough …….

        Ergo, as Rossi is looking at Gas Cats, this makes me sceptical (sadly – I hope I am going to be proved wrong…please!) of anonymous rumours of high COP E-Cat technology options and test results in the short term, and thereby sceptical of the veracity of these gung-ho comments from ‘Paul’.

        Not to say this technology cannot be refined in future to go to high COP,s as the early work cited in this forum suggests these are possible and even demonstrable in the lab.

        However, this seems currently to be a long way away from the safe and robust exploitable technology that Rossi and IH are assumed to be developing, and (another assumption) presumably more or less represented by the E-cats they supplied to the Independent Parties for test.

        Cheers

        Tim

        • Ophelia Rump

          Absolutely! You are spot on rational and reasonable.

        • Broncobet

          Hmmm interesting. This is more bad news. Another well thought out and reasoned reaction, inducing doubt into my gullible mind. Just keep it up guys. and I’ll stop reading! Just kidding , I am fascinated by the subject, and I would like the smallest little confirmation that there is some anomalous heat produced. I picked up this story in the Spring after following it years ago, and I better get some good news at some point. If we could just get the report ,no matter what it says by Oct 5th, so my guess will be right.

    • fritz194

      1) I think the most interesting thing about this new technology is the potential achievable COP – and it seems to be infinite. It´s only a matter of excitation and neutron production tradeoff.
      If we take into account that we have just a few man-years of edisonian “engineering” on this “product” – we will see what the future brings.
      Because IH will introduce this technology – they need a serious and profitable use-case.
      A COP of 6 can be easily achieved with geothermal facilities – so an interesting scenario could be remote and isolated, compact units, driven of liquid gas or similar without needing any extra infrastructure.
      Having a use-case and cats sold – would enable a steady flow of revenue into more research, tuning and better COP.

      • Broncobet

        No no,if it works at all it doesn’t need any other input, that is all a distraction. All you would need is a battery.

    • Broncobet

      Darn, that’s a little disappointing, but accurate.

  • robyn wyrick

    It’s interesting to me to see so many here challenging Paul’s authenticity.

    I don’t think s/he says anything radically new. Just statements that s/he has see the actual product. But Rossi himself says his system is real.

    If I said, “Yes, I saw it, and it was amazing, but I can’t say anything more,” that would be all fine and good, but it doesn’t change anything. For one thing, Paul doesn’t say anything about his qualifications – even if he saw it first hand, would he know if it worked or not? We have no way of knowing.

    Also, Paul repeats the “I have nothing to say now” statement we have grown accustomed to from Rossi. That’s nothing new.

    Paul is 100% confident that the third party report will come out before November, but so what? If he is right, it fits comfortably into the standard narrative. If he is wrong, heck, timetables have been all over the map on this subject. That doesn’t discredit him in my mind.

    While Paul has some generally encouraging statements, so what? It’s pleasant, yes, but in the field of Cold Fusion, general encouragement is for neophytes. People who have watched it for a long time are used to waiting, and searching, and going long intervals without encouragement.

    So I read this post as interesting, but it doesn’t change my conviction: there have already been third party reports on LENR from around the globe – and at least one on the e-cat. Rossi said he had sold his IP to a US-based firm and everyone doubted him – saying, put up or shut up. But he was right, and they were wrong. I can’t imagine that IH is just resting on testing done prior to the acquisition of the IP – they must certainly be running extensive tests – as Rossi says repeatedly, and no one at IH ever contradicts.

    So thanks for the post Paul. Good to have your contribution. Thanks, Frank for posting it too.

    • Broncobet

      Yes, the sale of the IP from Rossi to IH gave a lot of optimism to many of us, because, like you say, if someone was paying ten million , surely they would have tested it? No, this is not what happened at all. AR had a lot of fans who believed every thing he said. Darden has some funding experience. He simply matched up people who were convinced that LENR has a future, with Rossi’s work, which is done all the time in the business world. This does not mean that anyone did any test on E Cats,it’s the investors that take the risk, Darden et al take no risk at all and probably got their percentage off the top. There’s no need to have a test for the investors since they believe this tech works, on faith alone. None of this means that it doesn’t work or that demos have not been done, I’m just pointing out, that the current situation, could easily occurred without any testing. Now release that report by Oct 5th and make me a prophet!

      • it is not what Cherokee fund said.

        “Mr. Vaughn confirmed IH acquired the intellectual property and licensing rights to Rossi’s LENR device after an independent committee of European scientists conducted two multi-day tests at Rossi’s facilities in Italy.

        The published report by the European committee concluded, “Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources” [referring to energy output per unit of mass]. The report is available online at http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913. In addition, performance validation tests were conducted in the presence of IH personnel and certified by an independent expert.”

        moreover Cherokee is not a tycoon but a mutual fund, and there is requirement of “Due Diligence”, like independent test and inquiry on the inventor…

        • psi2u2

          AlainCo,

          Thank you for the highly pertinent correction to the misunderstandings of the previous poster.

  • robyn wyrick

    It’s interesting to me to see so many here challenging Paul’s authenticity.

    I don’t think s/he says anything radically new. Just statements that s/he has see the actual product. But Rossi himself says his system is real.

    If I said, “Yes, I saw it, and it was amazing, but I can’t say anything more,” that would be all fine and good, but it doesn’t change anything. For one thing, Paul doesn’t say anything about his qualifications – even if he saw it first hand, would he know if it worked or not? We have no way of knowing.

    Also, Paul repeats the “I have nothing to say now” statement we have grown accustomed to from Rossi. That’s nothing new.

    Paul is 100% confident that the third party report will come out before November, but so what? If he is right, it fits comfortably into the standard narrative. If he is wrong, heck, timetables have been all over the map on this subject. That doesn’t discredit him in my mind.

    While Paul has some generally encouraging statements, so what? It’s pleasant, yes, but in the field of Cold Fusion, general encouragement is for neophytes. People who have watched it for a long time are used to waiting, and searching, and going long intervals without encouragement.

    So I read this post as interesting, but it doesn’t change my conviction: there have already been third party reports on LENR from around the globe – and at least one on the e-cat. Rossi said he had sold his IP to a US-based firm and everyone doubted him – saying, put up or shut up. But he was right, and they were wrong. I can’t imagine that IH is just resting on testing done prior to the acquisition of the IP – they must certainly be running extensive tests – as Rossi says repeatedly, and no one at IH ever contradicts.

    So thanks for the post Paul. Good to have your contribution. Thanks, Frank for posting it too.

    • Broncobet

      Yes, the sale of the IP from Rossi to IH gave a lot of optimism to many of us, because, like you say, if someone was paying ten million , surely they would have tested it? No, this is not what happened at all. AR had a lot of fans who believed every thing he said. Darden has some funding experience. He simply matched up people who were convinced that LENR has a future, with Rossi’s work, which is done all the time in the business world. This does not mean that anyone did any test on E Cats,it’s the investors that take the risk, Darden et al take no risk at all and probably got their percentage off the top. There’s no need to have a test for the investors since they believe this tech works, on faith alone. None of this means that it doesn’t work or that demos have not been done, I’m just pointing out, that the current situation, could easily occurred without any testing. Now release that report by Oct 5th and make me a prophet!

      • it is not what Cherokee fund said.

        “Mr. Vaughn confirmed IH acquired the intellectual property and licensing rights to Rossi’s LENR device after an independent committee of European scientists conducted two multi-day tests at Rossi’s facilities in Italy.

        The published report by the European committee concluded, “Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources” [referring to energy output per unit of mass]. The report is available online at http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913. In addition, performance validation tests were conducted in the presence of IH personnel and certified by an independent expert.”

        moreover Cherokee is not a tycoon but a mutual fund, and there is requirement of “Due Diligence”, like independent test and inquiry on the inventor…

        • psi2u2

          AlainCo,

          Thank you for the highly pertinent correction to the misunderstandings of the previous poster.

        • Broncobet

          No ,of course not, this is not governed by any rules having anything to do with mutual funds. For this investment you are investing as a “sophisticated investor” and must prove that you have a million dollars and it’s sometimes called a “private placement” . The SEC lets this go ,as it should, because rich people can afford it, you are all lucky that they have these rules as otherwise they’d be a lot more angry investors. Of course I could be wrong and the SEC is keeping you all from the investment of a lifetime, but at the very least, from an investment point of view, this is viewed as very speculative.(which of course pay the highest returns if you are right, I did some of them long ago when you only needed $100,000 and they paid about 20-1 but you had to leave your money in there for eight years).

        • Broncobet

          Obviously those tests were no good as they are doing new ones. The fund set up is not a mutual fund which is regulated much tighter.You wish they were a tycoon as he would do some testing while the bunch they have investing now will believe most anything. I am very optimistic with the news today that the IH IP attorney asked for two months for the new report . This is just the sort of thing to make me still think it all could work, but then they miss deadlines and you start to doubt. Anyway for now the news is hopeful we could at least get a good report.

          • the previous test were good enough for the people present, for the required due diligence.

            clearly given the current group delusion there is a need for opposable evidence.

            nb: My job is to understand to understand the difference between having evidence of a fact, and being able to convince a doubting third party, especially facing dishonest accusations.

        • Broncobet

          Why do you keep thinking Cherokee is a mutual fund? They are much more closely watched as the government ,the SEC, doesn’t want retail investors taking too big of a chance. This is like a private placement fund.You state you have a million dollars and are willing to gamble. I made a ton in these. They are extremely risky. Alainco,you know how the patent office won’t give a patent in LENR because there are no scientific principles? I read today that a certain tech of superconductivity had the same problem, no one has a good theory as to how it works. If the ECAT works they should leave one with the patent office as if they are issued a patent it should be worth a lot.

        • Broncobet

          I did like that the patent attorney asked for more time for the report I hope he’s not blowing smoke.

  • Private Citizen

    >So why waste spy type resources on something they are skeptical about?

    That is what spy resources are for, to gain intelligence on commercially or militarily exploitable technology. My caveat is “if Rossi is anything like for real,” which these nations and interests might have decided he isn’t.

    The most important, disruptive, technology since the invention of fire, with the potential to bankrupt petroleum oligopolies and nations, to reinvent warfare, transportation, farming, civilization itself, might just might fall into the category of urgent intelligence– not let’s just wait and see.

  • Private Citizen

    Blind belief and disbelief are both hard to penetrate. Most readers here probably believe there was an academic and/or governmental conspiracy to cover up Pons and Fleschman’s discovery. I do.

    Now we want to suspend belief that governments or corporate interests might want to spy on Rossi because they don’t believe in cold fusion or have never heard of eCat? NASA, US Navy, Mitsubishi, MIT, several other top universities with LENR divisions, all know about cold fusion progress, but the reputed leader in the field about to commercialize is ignored for some reason? That disbelief is hard to penetrate.

    • mytakeis

      the difference is the internet evolving into a knowledge transference. Pon and Fleish came before it. There is no stopping the outing of new energy now.

  • Paul

    Thank you, Wryck! Just to, exceptionally, reply to the person who addressed to me not exactly kind words, I have never written COP>20, so Gas Cat makes sense…

    • timycelyn

      Paul – nice to see your reply. I’m sorry that I am a little sceptical, but there are some mischief-makers around from a sad group of pseudo-skeps, so I tend to be particularly wary of semi-anonymous claims of this type.

      I realise you mention<10, not <20 for the current tests, but still contend that at these levels I would not have expected Gas Cat research to be pursued as actively as it appears at present.

      If the future supports the points you have made here, I apologise. (To be honest, part of me is already blushing ….)

      However, until then – I remain wary and unconvinced……

      • Paul

        Obviously, you wanted to write “I realise you mention >10, not >20 for the current tests”. Regarding the use of gas instead of electricity, the savings depends on many factors and on the Country we are talking about, due to the different tariffs ratio between electricity and gas in different nations, but generally speaking, so not for the E-Cat in particular, we are talking, roughly, of a factor 2.

        • mytakeis

          Paul, you sure do not write as Italian as your mother tongue to me – but hey it don’t matter, just happy to read what you ‘say’

      • Veblin

        JohnP from ECN AKA Pierre Ordinare and Hope4Dbest on ECW.

        JohnP is not quite done playing here so he is not ready to jump up and shout his You’ve Been Punked message. But he wants to hint to his buddies just that.

        JohnP
        C’mon, guys! “Paul” is not the dreaded General, OK.
        Do you Believers need this in Mandarin?
        “Paul” is someone who hopes for the best.

        JohnP says he is Paul.
        Paul doesn’t say he is not JohnP.

  • Paul

    Thank you, Wryck! Just to, exceptionally, reply to the person who addressed to me not exactly kind words, I have never written COP>20, so Gas Cat makes sense…

    • timycelyn

      Paul – nice to see your reply. I’m sorry that I am a little sceptical, but there are some mischief-makers around from a sad group of pseudo-skeps, so I tend to be particularly wary of semi-anonymous claims of this type.

      I realise you mention<10, not <20 for the current tests, but still contend that at these levels I would not have expected Gas Cat research to be pursued as actively as it appears at present.

      If the future supports the points you have made here, I apologise. (To be honest, part of me is already blushing ….)

      However, until then – I remain wary and unconvinced……

      • Paul

        Obviously, you wanted to write “I realise you mention >10, not >20 for the current tests”. Regarding the use of gas instead of electricity, the savings depends on many factors and on the Country we are talking about, due to the different tariffs ratio between electricity and gas in different nations, but generally speaking, so not for the E-Cat in particular, we are talking, roughly, of a factor 2.

        • HS61AF91

          Paul, you sure do not write as Italian as your mother tongue to me – but hey it don’t matter, just happy to read what you ‘say’

      • Veblin

        JohnP from ECN AKA Pierre Ordinare and Hope4Dbest on ECW.

        JohnP is not quite done playing here so he is not ready to jump up and shout his You’ve Been Punked message, like he did last month.
        But he wants to hint to his buddies just that.

        JohnP
        C’mon, guys! “Paul” is not the dreaded General, OK.
        Do you Believers need this in Mandarin?
        “Paul” is someone who hopes for the best.

        JohnP says he is Paul.
        Paul doesn’t say he is not JohnP.

    • Len Fusioneer

      Hello Paul;

      Please consider revealing your true identity to Frank (admin) under an acceptable NDA.

    • Patrick Ellul

      Hi Paul,
      Now that the report is out, were your expectations and understandings met? Do you still trust your sources? You had mentioned a long list of scientists and a high COP. What do you think of the report now? I see that Nevanlinna is not very happy with it to say the least.

      Kind regards.

    • Patrick Ellul

      Hi Paul,

      Now that the report has been released, have your expectations been met? Is it what you thought it would be? In terms of COP and peer reviewers? Do you consider your sources as reliable? Are you happy with the report? I see that Nevanlinna is far from happy by it.

      Hi Frank (admin), why will you not approve my reply? it is a genuine question.

      kind regards.

  • LCD

    Requiring neutron feedback would help mitigate easy weaponization

  • Broncobet

    Hey Frank, while we’re waiting around here’s a great story; Jae Kwon at the U of Missouri has made progress on water based batteries energized by betavoltaics. This is the same space as LENR is supposed to be in ;the intersection of nuclear and chemical.. They use Strontium 90 as a beta source and it could be made to power cars and spacecraft. It’s published in Nature. You can access it on WNN(World Nuclear News). This obviates the need for steam turbines and generators and converts radiation energy straight to electricity. Note U of M has a LENR connection.

  • HHiram

    Even if everything in the next third-party report confirms Paul’s claims and vindicates Rossi’s efforts, the only truly important question still remains unanswered: when will ECats be available for sale?

    It doesn’t matter what any third-party report says. It doesn’t matter whether it is positive or negative. It doesn’t matter what tests show the COP to be. The only thing that matters is whether or not a working product is available for sale.

    Once the ECat goes on sale, ALL of these other significant questions will be answered in a matter of days or weeks by the market, and that is all that matters.

    Where is Rossi or Industrial Heat on the timeline to market? Why have we heard nothing about the question that actually matters? Why all the fuss about yet another report?

    • Broncobet

      That’s a good question, let me answer with another question, how much time have you got? Will you faithfully read these pages without seeing any evidence of LENR for ten or twenty years? What do I know? How long do you think it will be? You say these things will be answered by the market, what is the market saying now? Could we say there is no market for them at least not yet as one has never been sold?? Perhaps the price the seller wants is too high or what the buyer offers is too low.

      • clovis ray

        It might not be for sale, only it’s power, for pennies on the dollar

  • US_Citizen71

    The problem with remotely controlling your hypothetical weapon is radiation plays havoc with electronics. You could turn it on and the radiation could block any further control, it could even make servos randomly activate resulting in the weapon aiming itself at you.

    • LCD

      Aiming? Once it’s remotely started the perpetrator won’t care. It’s a valid point. Look at the Genie, it lends credence to the idea that neutron generation is a likely stable state. Having to police a world where your average Joe can create a dirty bomb like that so to speak would be difficult.

      I don’t think anybody is saying we outlaw LENR but we have to be aware of the consequences and figure out ways to mitigate them.

      • US_Citizen71

        It’s not a bomb and could be a bomb no chain reaction. It’s more like a microwave oven with the door taken off or a large solid piece of radioactive material. Nothing to spread around it would just emit Neutrons.

        • LCD

          So the “so to speak” didn’t do it for you. Use whatever you want, it’s possibly quick and dirty and would kill or hurt people.

          If you want to bury your head in the sand go for it but I’d rather go in eyes wide open.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        The bad message is that it could be much simpler. Just think of the possibility of creating dangerous radioactive isotopes by LENR. There is no option to withdraw all suitable materials from the market, and hydrogen can be produced easily by electrolysis, for example. The only way to prevent an abuse would be keeping the methods secret. That might be possible for a while, but certainly not forever.

        • LCD

          Good point Andreas. I think for starters a world full of radiation/patricle detectors could be the future.

    • LCD

      None of those other ways are possibly as easy as this and we have no idea of th amount or energies of the neutron production. Again we just need to be aware of the possible problem not go into panic mode.

      • US_Citizen71

        No none of them are easily done that is why the are science fiction, just like your hypothetical weaponized ECat.

        • LCD

          Okay pal, if the ecat is not science fiction then neither is this, don’t you agree?

          • US_Citizen71

            Nope.

          • LCD

            Okay that is all I needed t know to guage your level of competence.

            If you don’t have the background to intellectually stay in a conversation just say so. No need to show your ignorance.

          • US_Citizen71

            Nuclear weapons are quite real there are many videos available to show what a detonation looks like, the knowledge to build one is easily obtainable today. But, no one has yet made a hellbore. Why? Technical and engineering challenges exceed our ability to make one. So does that mean that nukes must be science fiction since we can’t make a hellbore?

          • LCD

            What does that have to do with anything I’ve said

          • US_Citizen71

            Just using the same circular logic as “if the ecat is not science fiction then neither is this,”!

    • LCD

      And you are ok with that?

      • US_Citizen71

        OK with what?

        • LCD

          Secretly killing your neighbor, lol.

          • US_Citizen71

            That was simply a metaphorical creation. I didn’t want to make a political statement by choosing a bad guy, so I used a universal motivator, protecting one’s mate.

          • LCD

            Your missing the point

          • US_Citizen71

            You had a point?!

          • LCD

            Only that I’m wasting my time talking to a ninth grader

          • Matt Sevrens

            How does COP relate to EROEI?

          • Broncobet

            I like that metric which is very favorable for nuclear facilities and higher for advanced nuclear.

  • Private Citizen

    The late Dr. Eugene Mallove’s testamony is that replication results were doctored at MIT to hide evidence of excess energy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6y98YwJ2GEE#t=268

  • catfish

    I’m not sure how much these Mysterious Insider remarks are helpful, apart from keeping the believers hopeful and the deniers ready to accuse. The “TPR2 can be positive or negative” sounds like a direct quote from Rossi, which I find grating enough when he says it. Look. the device either works or it doesn’t. Why does Rossi have to state the results could be negative? If he knows how well the device is working, than he knows the test cannot be negative. His lack of faith in his own device disturbs me, and honesly, this kind of thing is making me more skeptical of him all the time.

    • US_Citizen71

      Rossi is under NDA , “TPR2 can be positive or negative” translates to I cannot confirm or deny what is being asked/discussed.

    • Heath

      As he has said, it’s a different model and it is not a matter of if it works or not. Does it provide the expected amount of heat consistently for the expected amount of time or is there still something with the design that needs adjusting–these are the items being measured. A reaction under complete control is what they are looking for.

    • Omega Z

      Scientifically,
      Until it is verified by an Independent 3rd party,
      Stating it may be negative or positive is correct.

      Building a 1Mw pilot plant & placing it in a customers facilities makes a statement in itself.

      However, We also have to make the distinction that the 3rd party test is of the high temp E-cat & the pilot plant is of the Low temp E-cat. Tho according to Rossi, Both now use the Mouse/Cat setup.

  • US_Citizen71

    Rossi is under NDA , “TPR2 can be positive or negative” translates to I cannot confirm or deny what is being asked/discussed.

  • Omega Z

    This Neutron production only happens under unique conditions during a runaway situation of which the device self destructs in seconds.
    Tho not something you want, the Neutron production must be of a very limited nature as Rossi is still with us. Also note that Neutron’s were detected in only (1) specific Unique case.
    Rocks would probably be a better & more dependable weapon.

  • Omega Z

    Scientifically,
    Until it is verified by an Independent 3rd party,
    Stating it may be negative or positive is correct.

    Building a 1Mw pilot plant & placing it in a customers facilities makes a statement in itself.

    However, We also have to make the distinction that the 3rd party test is of the high temp E-cat & the pilot plant is of the Low temp E-cat. Tho according to Rossi, Both now use the Mouse/Cat setup.

  • Matt Sevrens

    How does COP relate to EROEI?

    • Broncobet

      I like that metric which is very favorable for nuclear facilities and higher for advanced nuclear.

      • Matt Sevrens

        Has anyone attempted to describe the EROEI for the Ecat?

  • the previous test were good enough for the people present, for the required due diligence.

    clearly given the current group delusion there is a need for opposable evidence.

    nb: My job is to understand to understand the difference between having evidence of a fact, and being able to convince a doubting third party, especially facing dishonest accusations.