E-Cat Report Watch Thread (Update #30 — Rumor: “Never Seen So Many Peer Reviewers”?)

Since there is an increasing amount of anticipation about the long-expected report from third party which has been involved in long-term testing of the E-Cat, I thought I’d create a thread where news, links, rumors, etc. could be posted. Remember, in the fog of war there can be confusing and perhaps innacurate messages, so we should be cautious about things we hear. As new reports come up, I will add them to this post.

Update #30 (October 6, 2014)

More from the mysterious ‘Paul’ who has posted here again. This is of course unconfirmed, and must be in the rumor category, but rumors are all we have to go on at the moment:

Looking or not looking for it, the publication is really forthcomimg. I have never seen so MANY peer reviewers involved. It is pretty unusual, and it is seems to be a very special feature of this report. I’ll leave you to asses their names and background when you read the report. If all these people put at risk their own career or, at least, their reputation, they surely have their good reasons. Therefore, I think that it will leave a big footprint…

Update #29 (October 5, 2014)

(Thanks to Deleo77) Andrea Rossi has been asked a number of times on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about whether he has read the report (he has said he would get a chance to read it before publication) and recently his response has been ‘I do not have information to give’. Today when pressed about this answer, he wrote:

I meant: ” I still do not have AVAILABLE information to give”.

I suppose this could be interpreted as Rossi dropping a hint that he knows something . . .

Update #28 (October 5, 2014)

Here’s a little exchange on another thread here that I found interesting. Of course, we can’t confirm this right now, but ‘Paul’ could have some inside information here:

Paul: No, it is not to be published on Science or Nature.

Barty: Okay, then it is in a smaller journal? One not well known and accepted?

Paul: One that can publish very long papers. I “cannot” say more.

Update #27 (October 1, 2014)

Mats Lewan was asked on Twitter if there was any news on the E-Cat:

Update #26 (September 29th 2014)

I missed this comment made by Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics on September 25th when he was asked whether the report would include theoretical analysis of the E-Cat reaction, or just a measurement of energy in/out:

I will be able to answer when the report will be delivered. I have not a clue. I know that the Professors of the ITP asked help from other important institutions. We’ll see.

Professors asking for outside help would be another sign that there was something significant found in the testing. You wouldn’t go to outside institutions for assistance if the E-Cats were behaving just like conventional heaters.

Update #25 (September 24th 2014)

I have heard from another contact who I have communicated with before, and who I trust, that the rumor posted below by demokratininfara regarding an early October timeline is correct.

Update #24 (September 24th 2014)

This is a thread for rumors, which of course must be treated with caution, especially from an anonymous poster. Here are some commentsthat came in this morning from a poster here named ‘Demokratinifara’. It’s here for readers to consider and use their own judgment about (see full post in the comments below):

“The report is to be published in the beginning of October and the results are 100% POSITIVE! No slacks ! What reaction accuring is only to 50% explained/understood, But the e-cat effect is measured and proven. Its a new era for energy policies and our future as well as a new field in physics. Bravo Rossi! Congratulations! To go from caracter assasinated criminal accused loony by the “green” mob to become an hero of humanity and science have to feel unbelivable fantastic! Its so well earned A Rossi! On behalf of the hole world ….. thank you Andrea! . . .
“Im sure this post will accumulate many questions on details. But there is only max a couple of weeks left. But you can prepare for the victory that you where right all along to trust your own mind works much much more than the increasingly rigid politizised unscientific establishment. The internet is fantastic! Its finally settled now despite that very powerful ideological and profit interests have tried to stop the evaluation/tests with all kinds of intellectual dishoest manipulative tricks. The e-cat works … get ower it! Youve lost! Science won!”

Also, see some comments below from long-time ECW poster Barty who shares information that seems to tie in with these comments about a pre-print report that may be circulating.

Update #23 (September 21st, 2014)

Andrea Rossi was asked on the JONP why so much time is involved in the publication of a scientific report. This was his response:

Curiosone:
The steps are:
1- make the test
2- data are collected and distributed to all the authors
3- if the data are millions, thousands of discussions and emails will be exchanged by the authors
4- the authors have to make independently their own analisys on data, samples, etc
5- the authors will ask to their peers to replicate the analisys on data, samples, etc
6- data have to be compared with expectations
7- every author writes his part of the report, based on his specialization
8- when a draft of report is ready, every author reviews the parts of the other authors, and they reciprocally review their work and their calculations, analisys, etc
9- when a text of report is agreed upon, the authors ask further reviewing from colleagues
10- the report is given to the magazine, which makes its own peer reviewing.
Said this, use as a calculator your good sense and tell me: do you think a total time between 6 month and 1 year is reasonable ?

I think this gives us a good outline of what we can imagine is going on among the team of researchers involved in the current report. Rossi has mentioned recently that some kind of review has been taking place, so we could be somewhere around steops 8-10.

Update #22(September 17th, 2014)

Many of us have been on the lookout for the E-Cat report this month — September — but there has been a post on the Journal of Nuclear Physics by Andrea Rossi that puts that expectation in doubt.

Dr Rossi:
Which month will be most likely the publication month:
1- September 2014
2- October 2014
3- November 2014
4- December 2014
JCRenoir

JCRenoir:
October 2014, I think, but I could be wrong.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

I guess there’s nothing we can do about it, so my plan is to sit tight and enjoy the ride with everyone else. I feel the wait will be worth it.

Update #21(September 12th, 2014)

There are a couple of pictures that have been posted on the Italian Cobraf web site by a poster named ‘nevanlinna’ that look new to me. It looks like three Hot Cat reactors suspended on a metal frame. Could this be a leak from the third party testers? The only text in nevanlinna’s post is ‘Just to stay … on the piece’

Andrea Rossi did say that he had sent three reactors to the independent testers, but that only one of them was used in the actual test, so this picture of three units might be considered to back up that statement.

UPDATE: It seems these pictures do not appear to be new. They can be found at this link on the LENR Cars web site: http://www.lenr-cars.com/index.php/gallery/e-cat The pictures are new to me. Metadata of these pictures gives a date of September 30, 2013 — which I believe is around the time that the recent 3rd party testing began.

I am not sure what to make of these pictures, frankly.

3hotcats

3hotcats1

http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747&ps=20

Update #20(September 6th, 2014)

Here’s a post from Andrea Rossi today. He has heard something at least:

JC Renoir:
The news from the TIP is that the report is under reviewing. I do not think it will take a lot of time before the publication. The results, I have been told, will be important, but I do not know if in positive or negative sense.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Update #19 (August 30, 2014)

Today from Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics

The work of the Third Independent Party is the first long term test made upon a LENR device in the last 25 years. The results will be the results that for the first time in the history of the LENR will be released by a third independent party after a test not of hours, but of thousands of hours, without interruptions and without intervention of the inventor or the owner. The results could be positive or negative, as I always said.

Update #18 (August 25, 2014)

News about the report is as hard to find as always — but I have had learned some things which suggest to me that a September publication of the report is increasingly likely. For sure, people shouldn’t take this to the bank; I have nothing definitive on this, but that is just the sense I am getting right now from some things I have heard.

Update #17 (August 20, 2014)

I was able to make contact with one of the people involved in the third party test, asking if they could provide any guidance as to the release date of the report. The response I received was that they realize there is a great amount of interest in the report, but that because of polarized opinions surrounding the LENR and E-Cat, it was not advisable to give any pre-statements about the content of timing or the report.

Update #16 (August 17, 2014)

This does not necessarily apply to the TPR2 (although it might be covered there), but I think it is worth mentioning. A question and answer from the Journal of Nuclear Physics today:

1.-Is the so called Rossi effect explainable through the Standard Model? Andrea Rossi: Yes.

Rossi has said that at some point he will address the theoretical basis of the E-Cat reaction. I don’t know if it will be addressed in the upcoming report; Rossi has mentioned that there may be some theoretical aspects to it. But to have the Rossi effect explained in terms of the Standard Model of particle physics would be interesting and probably helpful in terms of acceptance of the technology as valid, and for a starting point for new research in the LENR field.
Update #15 (August 17, 2014)

Andrea Rossi said today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, ” let’s wait patiently. It will not be for ever…”

Really there’s not really an update here, but I can’t see any other option than to take Rossi’s advice.

Naturally the anticipation is great, and waiting for something as important as this can feel wearisome. There have been some requests about starting a guessing game of when the report might appear — also a ‘date-by-which’ we should either forget about it all, or conclude that some outside force is holding things up. I don’t mind if people want to speculate on those things, but personally I don’t have the heart to do that. Nothing we do or say here can change the pace of events unfolding. All I can think is that we have no choice but to bide our time.

Update #14 (August 2, 2014)

Many thanks to Mr. Moho for the following comment which I have copied over from the Always Open thread:

Reporting some possibly reliable hearsay about the upcoming Rossi “TIP” (“third indipendent party”) here.
Stefano Quattrini, member of the “Movimento 5 Stelle” Italian political movement today wrote on Camillo Franchini’s blog (nuclear chemist and long-time radical cold fusion skeptic who AlainCo should know pretty well by now) this:

http://fusionefredda.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/brevetto-rossi/#comment-42239

Salve Prof. Franchini,
si riposi bene in questo agosto, perché a settembre ne vedremo delle belle…
dovrebbero infatti uscire i reports ufficiali di tre laboratori diversi dell’apparato Nichel Idrogeno…
Non è una notizia di Rossi, me lo ha riferito uno sperimentatore che ci sta lavorando..
Cordiali saluti
Google Translation tweaked and paraphrased for clarity; I hope there’s a native Italian speaker around to cross check this:
Hello Prof. Franchini
[I hope you will rest] well this August because September will [bring] some good [news]…
Official reports [from] three different laboratories on the Nickel Hydrogen apparatus should in fact [get released] …
It is not news [from] Rossi, [I was] told [this] by an investigator working on it ..
Kind regards
As far as I remember Quattrini already commented on that blog before, by suggestion of others (skeptics?) who advised him to contact Franchini for insights about LENR matters.
Stefano Quattrini is a member of Movimento 5 Stelle Ancona:

http://www.meetup.com/beppegrillo-ancona5stelle/members/85552602/

Didn’t Rossi mention Ancona in one of his latest comments on JONP? I wonder if that was just a coincidence…

Anyway, bottom line:
– Third party report probably out in September
– Report to come from three different laboratories. It’s not clear to me whether there are going to be several (3) reports or a single report authored by professors from three different labs/universities.

To add to the above, The same person, Stefano Quattrini, wrote on the Coherence Facebook page:

“They replied with regard to the results of experiments on the e-cat. Are ending the editors of the publication that should be ready for the end of August, ” (https://www.facebook.com/groups/408675319218437/)
Update #13 (July 19th, 2014)

The way Andrea Rossi has been enthusing about his ‘masterpiece’ E-Cat plant lately, I have been wondering whether it might be seen before the third party report. But according to some comments by Rossi today, it sounds like the 1 MW plant reveal is going to be held until the report is published.

When asked by georghants if Rossi could throw his followers a bone in the form of some information about the plant Rossi responded:

We will publish nothing before the publication of the Third Independent Party. We must confront it before any further communication.

Later he expanded on this:

We will publish, from now on, only results of plants in operation. The Third Independent Report will be the last report published regarding an experiment on the current E-Cat or Hot Cat, , at least until we will not introduce significant modifications. We cannot give any further information about our plants until the opening of visits to our industrial plant in operation. About the TIP Report: it is not “so long delayed”, it is running through the normal reviewing period of any important scientific publication. There is no doubt that the results will be important, positive or negative as they might be.

Update #12 (July 8th, 2014)

In response to a question on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about how close the publication of the report might be, Andrea Rossi wrote:

Giuliano Bettini:
Only a guess. Not days, anyway, nor weeks. Several months, is my guess.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Update #11 (July 1st, 2014)

Here’s another comment from Andrea Rossi on the JONP in response to a question asking about the ‘six month’ comment from Rossi (see below):

“The reviewers want not to risk to make mistakes. An average means that a reviewing can last between 2 and 12 months starting from when the report has been delivered. In this moment I have not the information that would allow me to give specific answers. The experiment has been completed in April, then a report has been written on the base of the analysis of millions of data, confronting calculations of 6 Professors who reviewed each other before delivering the report. After that there is the peer reviewing of the magazine. It is a long, difficult process . . . A Professor of the Commettee explained to me recently, when I made a phone call to ask the scheduling of the publication, that they ( the Professors) need all the time necessary to make a work that gives results beyond any possible doubt, because the results, positive or negative, will have important effects.”

Update #10 (June 29th, 2014)

A couple of comments from Andrea Rossi on the JONP today talk about the report in process, and also the 1MW plant that will be open to visits.

First, Rossi responded to a question about why it take so long to make a report of the 2014 E-Cat experiment. He wrote:

You must know that the peer reviewing of a scientific publication usually takes 6 months as an average.The experiment made by the Third Independent Party is important, as you correctly wrote, and the Professors, to avoid criticisms, need all the time necessary to publish results of which they need to be sure beyond any reasonable doubt, also considering all the experience and the critics made during and after the 2013 experiment. It is not just matter of patience, it is also matter of respect for serious scientific work. The reviewing must take all the time it needs on the base of a serious and exhaustive analysis of the results, positive or negative as they might be.

Also in response to a question about the COP of the 1 MW plant that is being installed he said, “At the moment we cannot give any specific information. It is matter of months, not years, though.”

This makes me hope that these visits will start taking place this year — and who knows, maybe it will be open before the report is published! I asked Rossi the other day whether the report had to be published before they open up the plant and he said, “The two issues are unconnected.”

Update #9 (June 20th, 2014)

A post on the Swedish IHM Business School website (also on Sifferkol.se) by independent trader Torkel Nyberg gives an interesting psychological analysis of Andrea Rossi and of various types of people who are following LENR. At the end of the article he provides this comment about the timing of the report publication:

“Soon we will probably know a little bit more. The group of scientists from Uppsala and KTH has expanded with more scientists from other countries and the second independent test is about to get published earlyautumn. The test has been going on for months on neutral premises in Lugano, Switzerland with even more thorough measurements than the May 2013 test. It has even been rumoured that an isotope analysis have been made on samples from these tests at several universities in Sweden very recently.”

In following up on this statement it seems that more than one unnamed sources have indicated that a September release date is planned, as those involved want to be sure there are no mistakes, and that an isotope analysis has been ongoing until very recently.

Update #8 

A new comment from Andrea Rossi indicates something about the scale of analysis going on. It seems to me that all this analysis must be being done on the E-Cat fuel, and not simply data analysis which needs no specialized instrumentation.

Giuliano Bettini:
What I found in my experiments does not matter. Anybody can say ” I have found the moon in the well”. Let’s wait for the results of the report of the Professors of the Third Independent Party. I know they are making rigorous, long and difficult analysis in their Swedish laboratories of different Institutes, because, they told me, no one University has all the necessary instrumentation, so they need the help of different laboratories and this takes time. Let them work in peace. We have to be patient; I understand, and sympathize, the anxiety of the public about this issue, but think to my own anxiety…if I can menage it, I think everybody can. Think what will happen to me should the results be negative…still a possible output, though, as far as I know.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Rossi emphasizes that this is all ‘taking time’ — another indication of a delay beyond June.

Update #7 

Here’s a new statement by Andrea Rossi regarding the 3rd party testing from the Journal of Nuclear Physics

Giuliano Bettini:
This year the Third Independent Party had the possibility to make paramount measurements in total absence of us. I have no idea of all the measurements they made ( I only know some of them I saw during my presence in the neutral laboratory) and I have no idea of the topics of the report they are going to publish. I also have no idea of all the analysis they made and are still making in their own laboratories in Sweden.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

This statement was made in response to a question about whether the Swedes were authorized to measure the isotopic composition of the E-Cat fuel (as referenced by the Swedish professors’ recent statement), so when Rossi says that analysis is being done in Swedish labs, it indicates they are still analyzing some physical properties of the fuel.

Update #6
On the second part of the Sverge Radio’s programme about Rossi and the E-Cat, Hanno Essen said that the third party testing is not taking place in Sweden (although he said Swedish researchers are involved). So between this statement, and Rossi’s — the testing is not happening in Sweden, the United States, or Italy.

Update #5

Today Andrea Rossi posted this in the Journal of Nuclear Physics in response to a question about the timing of the release of the TIP report:

Andrea Rossi

May 25th, 2014 at 7:20 AM

LMV:

So far the scheduled publication is foreseen around the second- third week of June. I confirm that I di not yet know if the results are positive or negative, because the analysis of the data is still under substantial review. This is the last information I got three days ago.

Warm Regards,

A.R.

Update #4

I guess we should not be expecting any early surprises in the form of the publication of the report this month (May) — this just posted by Andrea Rossi.

Eernie1:

The results of the test made by the Third Indipendent Party will be published not before June 2014, as I heard recently from one of the Professors. I have not idea of the results, which could be positive or negative, as far as I can know.

Warm Regards,

A.R.

Update #3

I asked Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics whether there was a guarantee that the the report would be published, or if there was a chance that the report might be buried forever. This was his response:

Frank Acland:

It is absolutely sure that the report will be published, whatever the results, positive or negative as they might be. This is the imposition given to us from the Third Indipendent Party Professors as a condition to accept to make the test. They demanded that they will publish the results inconditionally, even if the results will be negative. What said above is granted.

What follows is an opinion of mine, that could be wrong: the report should be published by the end of June. My opinion is based upon the fact that yesterday I have talked with two of the Commettee members and they said that possibly the publication could be made by the end of June. I did not get any anticipation regarding the calculation of the efficiency, while they repeated to me that to analyse millions of data takes time.

Warm Regards,

A.R.

From this, it does sound to me like the testing might finally be over.

Update #2 On the Journal of Nuclear Physics Andrea Rossi was asked whether we should expect the report in days, weeks or months. He responded:

Alessandro Coppi:

I can give you my opinion, since this issue does not depend on me, absolutely. My opinion is that the publication will be made within June, but this is an opinion. I cannot give any information about the timing of the different phases of the Professors’ work ( reactor test phase, calculation phase, report writing phase, reviewing phase, publication).

Happy Easter to you,

A.R.

Update #1, April 16th: David Nygren has commented on Lenr-Forum.com, saying, “As you know, Elforsk is one of the players that indirectly finance the evaluation of Ecat, but there are more players who participate in this long-term test. I guess, in May / June, information will start coming out.”

April 15th: there are two reports from Sweden that hint at the upcoming report.

The first comes from the Lenr-Forum.com site with a thread by David titled, “​Ecat report ready – Long time test, almost here!”

He writes, “Within a few weeks we should see an increased interest in the field, we will also see more curious from both the media and the stock market.

If we receive this great reslutat, many will start anlysera how this can affect our world.”

http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/255-%E2%80%8BEcat-report-ready-Long-time-test-almost-here/?postID=485#post485

The second comes from the Swedish web site Energikatalysatorn — The thread has been started by someone going by the name Archelon, and the title of the thread is “Now Slamming it soon — have all the belts on?”

Archelon writes, “The report of long-term tests at neutral venue KTH / Uppsala in a few days a new era begins”

KTH refers to the KTH Royal Institute of Technology which is in Uppsala, and this would match the description by Rossi that the testing was taking place at an instutute of science. The thread can be read here (in Swedish):

http://www.energikatalysatorn.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=647

We’ll keep watching!

  • Billy Jackson

    /camp

    • artefact

      taking a seat

  • Billy Jackson

    /camp

    • artefact

      taking a seat

  • Christina

    Perhaps Dr. Rossi has requested they wait with the results until Holy Week is over.

    That’s a far-out idea, but he seems devout.

  • Neanderthal

    Where are the critics?..
    It seems all of them are hiding. I am certain you will see them under different guises supporting this new information and back tracking from their original arguments against the ecat.
    Ironic and strange has it seems its the converted critics that will push this into the medias eyes.
    When this happens we all have to forgive them.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I guess everyone is a converted critic or at least sceptic, only the conversion time can be used to distinguish us. But considering that, what is 2-3 years, or even 25 years, compared to the age of the universe…

      • jonnyb

        When the cat is finally out of the bag it is going to be somewhat empty not following this anymore, however it is a price well worth paying. Let’s hope the world does not have to wait too much longer!!! Go L.E.N.R. go.

        • deleo77

          There should still be a lot to follow. If the report is positive, we would expect to see other companies get funded, more stories in the mainstream media about Rossi, IH, and LENR, product roll-outs etc. I would think things would pick up a lot. But there could be less of a mystery feeling to it all, and that is kind of a fun aspect of it.

          • kasom

            I’ll see a hint to disinvest in the medium-term, all shares in companies that deal with heating like gas, oil, coal, energy saving tec, rockwool, any other building insulation, heatpumps etc.

          • GreenWin

            No. NG, will play a major role in transition to renewables. Energy efficiency (conservation, insulation, design, etc) will remain important for aesthetic and social reasons. Abundance does not eliminate the ideal of a “small footprint”. Rather, abundance returns us to the original intent of conservationism.

          • Ged

            True indeed, Green.

        • Neanderthal

          Yes I agree. johnny b.

          What will happen to this site when the cats out of the bag?.:-(

          • ecatworld

            Then I’ll just close the shutters, turn out the lights, and say goodnight.

            (Kidding!)

            Seriously, I have no intention of doing anything different. We’ll follow this story wherever it takes us. We are really at the very beginning here — and I think it’s going to be fascinating to see how things develop over the decades ahead. There will probably be technological, business, political, societal, psychological, etc. aspects to this story going forward. I’m more worried about being able to keep up, than wondering what to talk about here.

          • Billy Jackson

            more than likely you start to see more stories about the progress of commercialized LENR and upcoming products. its a natural progression.

          • GreenWin

            Billy, just as much of the journey as we’ve had so far. The effect of abundant, clean energy on this planet will transform nearly every walk of life. Following that transformation will be more fascinating than the adoption of electricity at the turn of the 20th century.

          • Fortyniner

            For the sake of my stress levels I am attempting to adopt a zen-like detachment from any expectations about the coming introduction of cold fusion power sources. Your post has just shot my efforts down in flames.

          • TomR

            I think we will need you to organize and guide us and our elected officials down the correct path. You have a lot of people following ecatworld and that is a valuable thing if our governments are going to put up roadblocks to the development of LENR. Thank you Frank, for all you do.

          • ecatworld

            Thank you, Tom.

            My main goal for ECW is to keep it as a corner of the web where people can come for accurate and up-to-date information about this important technology, and where people can discuss in peace. Keeping the site troll-and abuse-free is an important priority for me.

          • Fortyniner

            And a virtually full-time job I would imagine!

    • Billy Jackson

      I think you do yourself a disservice with your contempt of those who do not believe as yourself. Critics and Skeptics serve a useful purpose, just as useful as those who support or nurture a project along without proof.

      Through them we can see our project through another pair of eyes that ask questions that are not easily answered. thus gaining knowledge as a community. all of us have our place here and eventually one side or the other will prevail through a slow exposure of the truth, be it through hard questions by someone who doesn’t believe or the slow nurtured progress from those who profess support.

      So to all skeptics or believers. bring your opinions, your passion to debate one side or the other of the e-cat. i simply ask that you have an open mind and leave unchecked emotion at the door and prepare to be challenged in your beliefs and know that its a journey of discovery we are all on.. and every question has its purpose in the debate.

      • psi

        quite so.

  • Mr. Moho

    If it’s going to be released very soon, I speculate it will be on Friday evening, Central European Time.

    • GreenWin

      Is this not also the Christian observation “Good Friday?”

    • friendlyprogrammer

      Rossi said he will have at least 3 days with it before it can be published. Let’s hope it carries more weight than his past attempts to take this mainstream.

      • Julian Becker

        The KTH is only a few kilometres north of the place where the Nobel Prize is awarded each year. Hope info spreads over short distances in Stockholm!

      • Fortyniner

        I think the degree of ‘splash’ is likely to be very limited outside the little world of LENR blogs. On its own, even a very positive report published on Arxiv or even in a lesser peer-reviewed journal, will probably make a few ripples at most. Even if (as it will be) it is picked up by the likes of ‘Wired’ it will be seen as an interesting curiosity by most people who read such an article – to be forgotten within a day or two, or vaguely remembered at a pub bar.

        I foresee much frustration here at the apparent indifference that will probably greet what to us is undeniable and possibly spectacular confirmation of everything many of us have been hoping for. Sadly only the unveiling of a working CF generator somewhere in the world will get begin to make people aware that their world is about to change – and even then only slowly and partially.

        Meanwhile the wheels will be turning with increasing speed behind the scenes.

        • friendlyprogrammer

          I agree and have made similar claims. Rossi is a brilliant Chemist, but he continually underestimates what will make his product accepted. Nevertheless; it still will convince any new academics/Universities involved in the verifications and likely add another thousand people to the cause even if that’s only a drop in the bucket.

          • Mr. Moho

            I believe the last thing Rossi currently wants is the entire mainstream scientific community working in large, competent teams on making cold fusion work, knowing that the effect is indeed real and that it’s only a matter of finding the right “recipe” to make it significantly reproducible and useful. I will be very surprised if the next test report won’t be designed in a way to provide several easy ways for influential, die-hard (and possibly less than honest) skeptics to dismiss once again the entire thing as fraud or delusion, or both. He’s set it already for this happening (Rossi/IH attendance, same testing team). This clearly is a deliberate strategy, I can’t imagine him being that clueless about what “third party”, “independent”, “scientific investigation”, “peer reviewed” and so on actually mean.

            Still, my expectations are that its release will turn out to be a significant event for people already interested or working on LENR, but won’t affect too much what is going on outside those circles. I can’t say I’m very excited with this scenario.

          • bachcole

            I really hate it when someone else is more insightful than me, so it is a big compliment to you for me to say that I hate your guts, Mr. Moto. (:->) Why didn’t someone else think of that. Of course Rossi and IH doesn’t want to alert the world that LENR+ is a juggernaut on it’s way.

            I want everyone to know that LENR+ is real. But for Industrial Heat to let everyone know that LENR+ is real is like a gold miner telling everyone “hey, there is gold over here.” That wouldn’t make any sense.

            So it is likely that there will be “deliberate” flaws in the test. For people who already accept the reality of LENR+, the release of the test report will be party time. For the skeptopaths it will be an opportunity for them to inadvertently serve Rossi/IH by keeping the competition from piling onto cold fusion. For the rest of the world, it will be ZZZZZZZ.

            Perhaps I am exaggerating a little.

            The first flaw is that it will NOT be peer reviewed. The test will be just good enough to attract a ton of money but not enough to alert the New York Slimes or General Electric or even Google.

            What say you all to Mr. Moho’s idea.

          • ecatworld

            I don’t think there will be deliberate flaws built in to the test. If there are flaws, they will probably be accidental — things that did not occur to the testers, as in the first test. As far as alerting the press, and proving to the world once and for all that the E-Cat is real — that may not be the intent of the testers.

            I’m still not really sure what the purpose behind this test is. It may be to help IH attract investors, it may be to help the patent application, it may be for the testers to get a better understanding of the science involved — or a combination of the above, or something else.

          • Mr. Moho

            I don’t think there will be flaws, technically speaking. However I believe there will likely be several shortcomings in the testing protocol that skeptics about LENR or Rossi will find unacceptable, given this is supposed to be a novel energy source, whose verification alone is worth at least a Nobel prize or two.

            The lack of proper scientific disclosure itself about how the E-Cat is supposed to work at all will be the main point of criticism and prevent the mainstream scientific community from taking this upcoming report seriously.

            The real purpose behind this test is probably, as you’ve just written, to speed up the patenting process, attract informed big investors and industrial partners who mostly operate behind the scenes.

            Just my 2 cents, though.

          • ecatworld

            I agree — so long as the insides of the reactor are sealed off and unavailable to inspection, there will be some who will say the whole test is scientifically invalid — and that will be fodder for skeptics for sure.

            In some ways a black box test is not science, but in other ways it surely is. You can certainly apply the scientific method to a black box test itself.

          • Fortyniner

            Although a lot of research work is carried out to confirm a hypothesis, it is also completely valid to simply report observations without offering a supporting theory, even if the findings appear to defy the established paradigm.

            For example, Halton Arp carried out observations that prove that many (perhaps all) heavily red-shifted quasars are located within or near to galaxies, not at the extreme cosmological distances and recession rates necessary to support the standard model. He published a number of papers but didn’t offer any alternative explanation for the observations, leaving that for others to investigate (they didn’t of course, because Arp’s work flatly disproves many of the most fundamental assumptions of astronomy and ‘big bang’ physics).

            http://bourabai.kz/arp/#abstracts

          • Omega Z

            Frank

            Rossi’s responses to you have been vague about a large press release. I Think Rossi would like that in a sense, but business wise, Probably Not.

            Likely IH/Rossi are just looking for validation enough to bring in the Big Boys to start developing the hardware to make it happen. This will require BILLION$ and many months.

            The Big Splash would be wanted only after enough preparations are concluded.

            Then it will be Dun, Da da Dun Dun, “We Interrupt this Broadcast for Breaking News”

            In the mean time, We will know. We will tell our friends & family & they will, Well, You know, Ho Hum…

          • Fortyniner

            “..an opportunity for them to inadvertently serve Rossi/IH by keeping the competition from piling onto cold fusion”.

            I hadn’t thought of that. The irony of MY’s hysterical efforts actually being helpful to Rossi’s plans is rather pleasant to reflect on.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            If this goes mainstream Billions of dollars will immediately go into CF research, and eventually Trillions (USD) will be allocated. This can potentially replace oil/gas/coal/nuclear.

            IH/Cherokee/Rossi would find itself immersed in such extravagant offers that their brains will have trouble computing the dollar signs.

            To think that Rossi/IH may not like this might be a bit presumptuous.

            Rossi has attempted to take this public when he released his paper in 2010. He then spent a year holding public demonstrations open to all who asked. He then organized a fairly impressive third party Demo despite its flaws.

            His real competitors are not idiots. I suspect Toyota/Mitsubishi are further along than they claim. Nobody at these CF conferences are telling all their secrets. They are just hoping to glean an edge over the next guy.

            It appears Rossi is in the lead, but guesses at the catalyst like the Lithium guess (might be) will eventually prove true and Rossi will have an inferior product. Rossi already claims he has stopped developing the Ecat in favor of adapting it to electricity, etc.

            I think Rossi would do well to convince Mainstream while he is perceived to be in the lead. Maybe some of these catalyst guesses will light a fire under him.

          • US_Citizen71

            Your answer mostly consists of FUD.

            “The fact that he sold some non-working thermoelectric generators to the US DOD is well documented.” – They worked, but they were too costly and too large to use. The US DOD was completely happy with the deal.

            “The PetrolDragon affair ended with him in jail, which is a concern no matter how you look at it.” – The problems he had with Petro Dragon had more to with the ex post facto laws put in place to run him out of business more than anything else. His process worked just fine, but he stole business from the Mafia; taking garbage for free and or paying for it. Not to mention that in Italy they will try you as many times as they feel like until they find you guilty if they want(ask Amanda Knox about that). Considering all charges were dropped; other than tax evasion, the whole thing smells of him stepping on the wrong toes, not of him committing any type of crime.

            “And some information he provides -the robotic factory- sounds delusional.” – Depends on your point of view. A 3D printer could be considered a robot. Multiple 3D printers, an electronic lathe and other CNC machines at one location could be considered a robotic factory.

          • curious

            I have heard about the PetrolDragon conspiracy theory -and actually I think it is reasonable. Who knows the truth, but that mess is cause for concern.

            I’ve read the final report from the DOD about the thermoelectric generators -I can probably find it again if you want to check. The authors tried to put on a brave face, but it was a complete fiasco. Unless they received another -decent- batch of devices which I don’t know about.

            The facts are enough to make me not trust Rossi -my opinion. But I accept when other people confirm his claims.

          • the fact is that the position defended by rossi, cross checked with articles I’ found, with known facts , is more credible that your conspiracy theory…
            where an crook is hired by an US company, to fool DoD, who see nothing…

            at least you have no evidence that rule-out Rossi’s theory.
            just a clear bias.

          • by the way in Mats book the reason why there was “chemical waste” in Omar refinery is well expained :

            the “crude oil” bio-fuel of Rossi, was transformed lagally into chemical wast because no product from waste could be transformed in something else waste, especially fuel (strange that they blocked all exception for just fuel).

            Mafia work in waste is well know, and if you were applying you conspiracy competence in reading il couriere della sierra you will have noticed tha article wher the tanks of omar were sabotages by unidentified people, makeing a leak that required cleaning…

            Th only beneficient of that story was the cleaner, thus the mafian, which succeeded in making the cost explode.

            a good “skeptic” would have noticed that.

            but a characteristic of groupthink victims is incapacity to see the evidence that dissent.

            A caracteristique of hypercritical methodist and pseudo-skeptics is incapacity to admit uncertainty, and transformation of doubt into comfortable prejudice.

            The levi&al test shows it works…

            Some previous test proved it was working according to people who played football with their own bones.

            TEG and refluopetrolion are mainstream research today, still challenging

            I just fond that article who don’t say more than Mats Lewa
            http://technews.it/ESfcK

          • friendlyprogrammer

            read my answer above .. it addresses all your concerns…

          • Guru

            Again my typo: not from Elforsk, From Vattenfall

          • ecatworld

            Hi Broncobet — sorry, I didn’t delete your posts, but they were stuck in the approval queue and all should be posted now.

          • Broncobet

            TY

          • NT

            I don’t know if this is relevant to eCat and LENR in general, but something may be going on as a result of the upcoming report:

            “The CEO, CFO, Chief Accounting Officer, and Senior VPs for Government Affairs and Human Resources have all sold large amounts of their stock in Entergy, with CEO Leo Denault unloading over 55% of his shares in December and CAO Alyson Mount selling 46% of hers on April 9”.

            Story link at: http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/top-entergy-executives-selling-stock/

          • Fortyniner

            Chernobyl and Fukushima may be the headline reasons people are not that keen on nuclear fission – massive recent escapes of radionuclides from sites such as Carlsbad in the US and lesser leakages from Sellafield in the UK, and its likes everywhere, are a continuing reminder that fission is really not a very good idea.

          • Buck

            Frank, strange happenings . . . your Update #4 seems to have already been edited out of the Rossi Blog reader RossiLiveCat.com

            I can’t imagine what that means.

          • GreenWin

            Buck, my favorite is more time for back channel M&A activity. So far I count about $25B in potentially influenced activity.

          • Ophelia Rump

            That is awesome, you are a minor deity in my eyes!
            I will not ask how, I am not worthy.

          • Buck

            I here JJ Abrams is going to do the movie.

          • GreenWin

            Buck, I would suggest Roberto Benigni for Dotorre Rossi. He is an Academy Award winner and… Italian. 🙂 Love your other casting, if a bit UK-centric.

          • Buck

            Yes, Roberto Benigni would be much better.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Bad choice unless you want someone whose personna is that of a dimwitted clown to play Mr. Rossi.

          • Ophelia Rump

            Impossible before May, implies a May release.
            That may be possible but unlikely, and there is no benefit in giving the hostiles ammunition.

          • Buck

            Ophelia,

            FYI . . . previously Rossi indicated that it would not be before the end of June.

          • Alain Samoun

            I think that it is more related to the poor economic outlook for the nuclear industry.Rats are leaving the ship.

          • bachcole

            Perhaps I am a little paranoid, but what if the professors get it into their heads to quash LENR by deliberately giving a false and negative report?

            Of course, Darden and company probably wouldn’t care and just keep on trucking.

          • Quiet Wine Guy

            Roger, it is fair to keep in mind that there are two groups of 7, both having the same data. Each group keeps the other on the straight and narrow.

            In light of Rossi’s statement that the primary Hot-Cat never went down over the sixth month period, it is a state-of -the-art Hot-Cat, each group has the capacity to work the operating parameters independent of Rossi, and Rossi has run this Hot-Cat model stably at 1100-1200 Kelvin, I think it only a remote possibility that all 7 of the 2nd tier would do as you suggest. The first group, already familiar with the Hot-Cat revolutionary capabilities from last year’s 3rd Party Test, would be all over the 2nd group for such an extreme judgement.

            And, we all ready have Pesserini saying the results were “Remarkable”.

          • Omega Z

            The 1st group of 7 with assistants did the test.
            The 2nd group would have minimal contact. Except maybe for pre conference on how to do some tests or fact checking.

            This would be absolutely necessary if the peer review of the Data were to be considered totally unbiased.

            Most overlook the fact that this was done with the 1st test, tho a much smaller lessor known group were involved after the fact.
            Read the report and you’ll see credit of such given to half a dozen others for helping process & reviewing the data.

            I suspect this time, the 2nd group will be of a higher stature.

          • Quiet Wine Guy

            OZ, thank you for the additional perspective.

            I wonder how the 2nd group was selected?

          • Omega Z

            It’s obvious.
            It’s a Black Box test.
            The names would be drawn from a black box. 🙂

          • Ophelia Rump

            Then second round funding will be impossible without sales numbers.
            Product will go to market at a difficult to refuse price in exchange for testimonial.
            The train will leave the station in advance of the station being burned behind it.

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Lol, advertisement on page reads “10 Obvious Signs a Guy is Flirting with You”

            Seriously: maybe the report is nigh (3 days?)

          • Bernie777

            If the testing is being done at CERN it would greatly improve the acceptance of the the results. It would make a lot of sense for IH and Rossi to have testing done at CERN.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Count our blessings! At least we know not to hold our breath this week. Rossi says it might be June, which in Rossi speak translates to around August 30th. Guess we can go back to our normal routine of only checking this site once a day instead of half a dozen..

            See you in September dudes…

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Great idea! “The Declaration of Indipendence” or “Indipendence Day”.

          • BroKeeper

            Indi 500 cars run on HT-Cat power on the 4th of July.

          • GreenWin

            Indipendence, Missouri… “The show me State.”

          • Omega Z

            Siemens has been involved with Rossi in a shadowy sort of way.

            To Our Knowledge?
            Siemens was the 1st Entity that Rossi had consultations with regarding turbines that could be incorporated into 1Mw E-cat.
            The LT E-cat was unable to exceed 200`C at that time. Siemens specified that a minimum of 250`C stable and also discussed a type of boiler that would be required to work with their nearest turbine match up to the E-cat technology.

            I believe it was near 6 months before, as Rossi said, They discovered mostly by happenstance a way to greatly improve the E-cat temperatures. Thus was born the Hot-Cat. According to Rossi, this is actually a technology different from the LT E-cat.
            As o the above, There is precedence for a Siemens connection.

        • bachcole

          Unfortunately, I agree and I couldn’t have said it better. And I am not trying to be negative now so as to avoid disappointment later.

          There should be an office of Jack-of-all-Trades that people can refer to when they want to know what is happening outside of their own paradigms. We are so specialized that we don’t know what is happening elsewhere. And too many people trust the lamestream media, who are just as narrow minded as the next person.

        • If the report don’t make a boom in the media, I heard from the grapevine that something else (out of e-cat) may make a boom in FT.
          Something tiny for us (no reactor), but big for FT.

          even if Boeing, cited in Mats Lewan’s book as interested by e-cat, having worked with nasa (on SUGAR and E-cat test), or Volvo, does not make it’s coming-out on cold fusion, maybe others big guys may, not buying an E-cat license but entering the game with intents and budget.

    • Steve H

      Wednesdays are the preferred day to launch new products. It’s still a working day and not too close to the weekend for people to travel for business purposes.

      • Mr. Moho

        Since IH/Cherokee are seemingly going for a very soft market introduction, I think they would probably release the test report/paper after their main stock markets of interest close for the weekend.

        • Christina

          Or how about Earth Day on April 22nd? Next Tuesday.

  • Anon

    KTH is in Stockholm, not Uppsala

    • ecatworld

      Thank you! Corrected.

  • Neanderthal

    Where are the critics?..
    It seems all of them are hiding. I am certain you will see them under different guises supporting this new information and back tracking from their original arguments against the ecat.
    Ironic and strange has it seems its the converted critics that will push this into the medias eyes.
    When this happens we all have to forgive them.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      I guess everyone is a converted critic or at least sceptic, only the conversion time can be used to distinguish us. But considering that, what is 2-3 years, or even 25 years, compared to the age of the universe…

    • Billy Jackson

      I think you do yourself a disservice with your contempt of those who do not believe as yourself. Critics and Skeptics serve a useful purpose, just as useful as those who support or nurture a project along without proof.

      Through them we can see our project through another pair of eyes that ask questions that are not easily answered. thus gaining knowledge as a community. all of us have our place here and eventually one side or the other will prevail through a slow exposure of the truth, be it through hard questions by someone who doesn’t believe or the slow nurtured progress from those who profess support.

      So to all skeptics or believers. bring your opinions, your passion to debate one side or the other of the e-cat. i simply ask that you have an open mind and leave unchecked emotion at the door and prepare to be challenged in your beliefs and know that its a journey of discovery we are all on.. and every question has its purpose in the debate.

      • psi

        quite so.

      • Some critics tried to destroy Rossi’s career (name ryhmes with “Rivit) with his sidekick MY.

        • Billy Jackson

          while a fair judgment against “rivit” 🙂 .. he still had valuable input that swayed the outcome of some of these tests. his challenge to Rossi gave Rossi the knowledge he needed to overcome his harshest critic. was it fair? no. but a few bad and vocal critics should be taken with a grain of salt. remember just because they wanna scream and yell and point fingers like idiots doesn’t mean we should join their shallow end of the gene pool and act in the same manor.

    • Broncobet

      Where are all the boosters??

  • Anon

    KTH is in Stockholm, not Uppsala

    • Frank Acland

      Thank you! Corrected.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Rossi said he will have at least 3 days with it before it can be published. Let’s hope it carries more weight than his past attempts to take this mainstream.

    • I think the degree of ‘splash’ is likely to be very limited outside the little world of LENR blogs. On its own, even a very positive report published on Arxiv or even in a lesser peer-reviewed journal, will probably make a few ripples at most. Even if (as it will be) it is picked up by the likes of ‘Wired’ it will be seen as an interesting curiosity by most people who read such an article – to be forgotten within a day or two, or vaguely remembered at a party or pub bar.

      I foresee much frustration here at the apparent indifference that will probably greet what to us will be undeniable and possibly spectacular confirmation of everything many of us have been hoping for. Sadly only the unveiling of a working CF generator somewhere in the world will begin to make people aware that their world is about to change – and even then only slowly and partially.

      Meanwhile the wheels will be turning with increasing speed behind the scenes.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I agree and have made similar claims. Rossi is a brilliant Chemist, but he continually underestimates what will make his product accepted. Nevertheless; it still will convince any new academics/Universities involved in the verifications and likely add another thousand people to the cause even if that’s only a drop in the bucket.

      • bachcole

        Unfortunately, I agree and I couldn’t have said it better. And I am not trying to be negative now so as to avoid disappointment later.

        There should be an office of Jack-of-all-Trades that people can refer to when they want to know what is happening outside of their own paradigms. We are so specialized that we don’t know what is happening elsewhere. And too many people trust the lamestream media, who are just as narrow minded as the next person.

      • If the report don’t make a boom in the media, I heard from the grapevine that something else (out of e-cat) may make a boom in FT.
        Something tiny for us (no reactor), but big for FT.

        even if Boeing, cited in Mats Lewan’s book as interested by e-cat, having worked with nasa (on SUGAR and E-cat test), or Volvo, does not make it’s coming-out on cold fusion, maybe others big guys may, not buying an E-cat license but entering the game with intents and budget.

  • neanderthal

    It wont be rossi that will take it to the mainstream my dear friend 😉
    he wont need

  • Barbierir

    Do David and Archelon know any rumor? Or it’s just speculation? The more I expect the report soon and the more the wait is killing me.

    • Frank Acland

      We can’t know for sure. This is just a place to follow the reports and rumors, and you know how they can be. I just hope this isn’t a * very long* thread.

      I hope we can keep each other company during the waiting and make it less painful!

  • ecatworld

    We can’t know for sure. This is just a place to follow the reports and rumors, and you know how they can be. I just hope this isn’t a * very long* thread.

    I hope we can keep each other company during the waiting and make it less painful!

  • jonnyb

    When the cat is finally out of the bag it is going to be somewhat empty not following this anymore, however it is a price well worth paying. Let’s hope the world does not have to wait too much longer!!! Go L.E.N.R. go.

    • deleo77

      There should still be a lot to follow. If the report is positive, we would expect to see other companies get funded, more stories in the mainstream media about Rossi, IH, and LENR, product roll-outs etc. I would think things would pick up a lot. But there could be less of a mystery feeling to it all, and that is kind of a fun aspect of it.

      • kasom

        I’ll see a hint to disinvest in the medium-term, all shares in companies that deal with heating like gas, oil, coal, energy saving tec, rockwool, any other building insulation, heatpumps etc.

        • GreenWin

          No. NG, will play a major role in transition to renewables. Energy efficiency (conservation, insulation, design, etc) will remain important for aesthetic and social reasons. Abundance does not eliminate the ideal of a “small footprint”. Rather, abundance returns us to the original intent of conservationism.

          • Ged

            True indeed, Green.

    • Neanderthal

      Yes I agree. johnny b.

      What will happen to this site when the cats out of the bag?.:-(

      • Frank Acland

        Then I’ll just close the shutters, turn out the lights, and say goodnight.

        (Kidding!)

        Seriously, I have no intention of doing anything different. We’ll follow this story wherever it takes us. We are really at the very beginning here — and I think it’s going to be fascinating to see how things develop over the decades ahead. There will probably be technological, business, political, societal, psychological, etc. aspects to this story going forward. I’m more worried about being able to keep up, than wondering what to talk about here.

        • Billy Jackson

          more than likely you start to see more stories about the progress of commercialized LENR and upcoming products. its a natural progression.

          • GreenWin

            Billy, just as much of the journey as we’ve had so far. The effect of abundant, clean energy on this planet will transform nearly every walk of life. Following that transformation will be more fascinating than the adoption of electricity at the turn of the 20th century.

          • Broncobet

            There is already an abundant ,clean energy available on this planet,fission energy,that you all are not interested in it is curious.I think you,like me,like the mystery of a possible process not generally known.Coal is killing millions with soot and radiation and nuclear energy ,which does work now,could remedy that.

          • Chernobyl and Fukushima may be the headline reasons people are not that keen on nuclear fission:

            http://www.turnerradionetwork.com/news/322-pat

            http://www.turnerradionetwork.com/news/232-pat

            Massive recent escapes of plutonium from sites such as Carlsbad in the US and lesser but continuous leakages from Sellafield in the UK (and from nuclear waste storage sites everywhere) are a continuing reminder that fission really isn’t a very good idea.

          • Broncobet

            No one died at Fukashima from radiation and they were older models,nuclear power provides energy with out pollution something that coal or LENR can not say.

          • For the sake of my stress levels I am attempting to adopt a zen-like detachment from any expectations about the coming introduction of cold fusion power sources. Your post has just shot my efforts down in flames.

          • bachcole

            LOL. Fortyniner, a zen-like detachment is good for finding the source within yourself of consciousness, so it is good for everything.

        • TomR

          I think we will need you to organize and guide us and our elected officials down the correct path. You have a lot of people following ecatworld and that is a valuable thing if our governments are going to put up roadblocks to the development of LENR. Thank you Frank, for all you do.

          • Frank Acland

            Thank you, Tom.

            My main goal for ECW is to keep it as a corner of the web where people can come for accurate and up-to-date information about this important technology, and where people can discuss in peace. Keeping the site troll-and abuse-free is an important priority for me.

          • A virtually full-time job I would imagine.

          • Broncobet

            The government is not putting up roadblocks!!! The Dept of Energy has a statement that what we are looking for is “xergy”,useful energy,they have a long statement on the 2nd law.In a different place they said there were six types of energy ie thermal,nuclear,mechanical etc.and that the energy was the space between any of these six. From nuclear to chemical was labelled LENR,and a grant of $500,000 for a proposal to use LENR as an energy source. Go to ARPA-E and FOA (funding oportunities).

        • Dr. Mike

          There will be many years ahead of reporting on experimental work on the verification of the theory of the science and physics of LENR. I can’t wait for the new report as I anticipate the report showing both positive results and the quality of the initial independent report.

      • Perhaps the biggest sign CF is about to make a break-thru is people are starting to worry about Frank’s site.

  • psi

    Sounds on spot on.

  • psi

    Sounds on spot on.

  • Ged

    Well, looks like it’s that time of the year again — knowing a report is about to drop and waiting for that moment. If it is KTH, that is fantastic news.

  • Ged

    Well, looks like it’s that time of the year again — knowing a report is about to drop and waiting for that moment. If it is KTH, that is fantastic news.

  • Jouni

    Mr. Rossi already wished us all happy easter,
    so nothing coming for now?
    The implications of the new fire should be more discussed, perhaps we have missed some obvious point there?

    • LukeDC

      If I was a betting man, it looks like I would have made some money.

      • jousterusa

        Vegas is still there. And the British books will take bets on anything… 🙂

        • Ophelia Rump

          Now that is an interesting idea!

          If there were a Vegas line on the subject, that line would be taken as a serious indicator.

          I wonder if we could promote such a thing into existence.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            The Wright brothers: “Both brothers attended high school,but did not receive diplomas.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

          • Quiet Wine Guy

            Frank,

            certainly Rossi and IH knew this was a high-risk move going into the test. IMO, they had good reason to be very confident as they had just seen the very positive results of the 1st 3rd Party Test.

            I think it reasonable to believe that the judgment of both groups of 7 will be positive and as a consequence the impact upon public perception and even the MSM will be material . . . but it will not wash away the effects of 25 years of the ‘Cold Shoulder’ and public shunning.

            Time will tell.

          • ecatworld

            According to AR here, it is the 3rd party demands that the report is published — I have heard concern expressed that if the report is positive, the 3rd party might hold up publication rather than come out endorsing the E-Cat

          • Quiet Wine Guy

            Frank,

            Thank you for the clarification on why you asked Rossi.

            On a different note, has Rossi given any clue as to how the 2nd set of 7 were selected? Presumably those cut from the same cloth as Huizenga were skipped. But what were the fields of expertise? Prior experience with CF? Prior public statements in support of CF? etc?

          • Ophelia Rump

            What makes you think it was high-risk?

          • Quiet Wine Guy

            Ophelia,

            I use the term ‘high risk’ to reflect the perception that at the time of the original agreement for the just completed 3rd party test, Rossi/IH could not know for a fact how the Hot-Cat would perform. Also, I used the term as one of the outsiders: all of us do not know the results and extent of the Rossi/IH R&D and testing up to that point. Nor do we know the actual 7 experimenters/authors nor the 7 reviewers.

            If we were in Rossi/IH’s position, we may have see the whole 3rd party testing as ‘low risk’. We just don’t know what they know.

      • LENR G

        From “David” in that original thread:
        _____________
        “As you know, Elforsk is one of the players that indirectly finance the evaluation of Ecat, but there are more players who participate in this long-term test. I guess, in May / June, information will start coming out.”

        _____________
        Looks like we still have a month or so to go.

        • Fortyniner

          Yep. I hope the people who will be putting their names to the 2nd report have very secure tenure or are nearing retirement, as something similar will probably occur in their cases.

  • Jouni

    Mr. Rossi already wished us all happy easter,
    so nothing coming for now?
    The implications of the new fire should be more discussed, perhaps we have missed some obvious point there?

  • Julian Becker

    The KTH is only a few kilometres north of the place where the Nobel Prize is awarded each year. Hope info spreads over short distances in Stockholm!

  • LukeDC

    If I was a betting man, it looks like I would have made some money.

    • jousterusa

      Vegas is still there. And the British books will take bets on anything… 🙂

      • Ophelia Rump

        Now that is an interesting idea!

        If there were a Vegas line on the subject, that line would be taken as a serious indicator.

        I wonder if we could promote such a thing into existence.
        I would love to know the Vegas odds.

  • Billy Jackson

    while a fair judgment against “rivit” 🙂 .. he still had valuable input that swayed the outcome of some of these tests. his challenge to Rossi gave Rossi the knowledge he needed to overcome his harshest critic. was it fair? no. but a few bad and vocal critics should be taken with a grain of salt. remember just because they wanna scream and yell and point fingers like idiots doesn’t mean we should join their shallow end of the gene pool and act in the same manor.

    • Barry8

      Fair enough Billy.

  • jousterusa

    The Chinese have announced an ambitious plan to desalinate enough water daily to serve the needs of its capital, Beijing (see http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/world/asia/desalination-plant-beijing-china.html?src=rec&recp=18&_r=0_.) There is no information whatever about where they will get the power they need to accomplish that goal. What if they told the Times – one of the stiffest foes of cold fusion – that a device they have never learned of based on LENR/cold fusion would power their new desalinization effort? An awful lot of embarrassed hemming and hawing would ensue, followed by a claim that it was invented by the Chinese, who would not correct the Times – why should they? This the ethical dilemma faced by the mainstream publications which have not dared to mention the forbidden words, “Cold fusion works.” Tell the truth, which is awfully embarrassing, or let another nation take credit for it. It’s a beggar’s choice.

    • Fortyniner

      The Times is pretty much a mouthpiece of the British political establishment (as is The Telegraph), so it is a reasonable assumption that their attitude to cold fusion is also the attitude of the government of the UK. Small details such as the facts about CF won’t get in the way of whatever spun messages they want to put in front of their Surrey stockbroker readers.

      • Daniel Maris

        I think he means New York Times. The UK bankers etc read the Financial Times more assiduously than the Times I think!

        • Fortyniner

          The dangers of an overly UK-centric viewpoint!

      • Steve H

        The clue is in the hyper-link.
        “nytimes.com”

      • Sanjeev

        Washington Post and Guardian share Pulitzer Prize for uncovering US gov spying.

        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27029670

        May be someone should contact the winners to write a story on Ecat (after the report comes out). These two newspapers are left seemingly uncorrupted.

        • ecatworld

          I nominate Mats Lewan for a Pulitzer prize.

          • bachcole

            And you are not joking, and neither am I. I think that his book is excellent. I am amazed at his tolerance for opposition. I see nary a single flap when someone attacks him in anyway; I guess we could say that he is unflappable. More than that, he will patiently respond to maryyugo and her ilk when months ago I simply stopped reading anything that she had to say.

            I will second the nomination for his Pulitzer prize.

          • Private Citizen

            i nominate Frank Acland for a Pulitzer

          • clovis ray

            I agree PC.
            on both accounts, and they will get their just reward, one of these days

        • MikeP

          Why would one announce a major technological and scientific breakthrough in a pair of tabloids?

  • jousterusa

    The Chinese have announced an ambitious plan to desalinate enough water daily to serve the needs of its capital, Beijing (see http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/world/asia/desalination-plant-beijing-china.html?src=rec&recp=18&_r=0_.) There is no information whatever about where they will get the power they need to accomplish that goal. What if they told the Times – one of the stiffest foes of cold fusion – that a device they have never learned of based on LENR/cold fusion would power their new desalinization effort? An awful lot of embarrassed hemming and hawing would ensue, followed by a claim that it was invented by the Chinese, who would not correct the Times – why should they? This the ethical dilemma faced by the mainstream publications which have not dared to mention the forbidden words, “Cold fusion works.” Tell the truth, which is awfully embarrassing, or let another nation take credit for it. It’s a beggar’s choice.

    • The Times is pretty much a mouthpiece of the British political establishment (as is The Telegraph), so it is a reasonable assumption that their attitude to cold fusion is also the attitude of the UK government. Small details such as the facts about CF won’t get in the way of whatever spun messages they want to put in front of their influential banker, stockbroker and CEO readers.

      • Steve H

        The clue is in the hyper-link.
        “nytimes.com”

      • Sanjeev

        Washington Post and Guardian share Pulitzer Prize for uncovering US gov spying.

        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27029670

        May be someone should contact the winners to write a story on Ecat (after the report comes out). These two newspapers are left seemingly uncorrupted.

        • Frank Acland

          I nominate Mats Lewan for a Pulitzer prize.

          • bachcole

            And you are not joking, and neither am I. I think that his book is excellent. I am amazed at his tolerance for opposition. I see nary a single flap when someone attacks him in anyway; I guess we could say that he is unflappable. More than that, he will patiently respond to maryyugo and her ilk when months ago I simply stopped reading anything that she had to say.

            I will second the nomination for his Pulitzer prize.

          • Private Citizen

            i nominate Frank Acland for a Pulitzer

          • clovis ray

            I agree PC.
            on both accounts, and they will get their just reward, one of these days

        • MikeP

          Why would one announce a major technological and scientific breakthrough in a pair of tabloids?

  • Frost*

    This almost certainly has nothing to do with the ecat so FYI only.

    European Energy Horizons 2014
    Grand Hôtel, Stockholm, May 8th 2014
    The Market. The Consumer. The Politics.

    http://www.economistinsights.com/energy/event/european-energy-horizons-2014/program

    Sponsored by Vattenfall

    • bachcole

      I am not a conspiracy dude, or even a positive conspiracy dude based upon wishful thinking, but from reading Mats Lewan’s first hand account, I would not be too sure that this conference has NOTHING to do with the E-Cat. There is so much behind the scenes that we don’t see. If Vattenfall is sponsoring it, the E-Cat is definitely in some people’s thinking.

  • Frost*

    This almost certainly has nothing to do with the ecat so FYI only.

    European Energy Horizons 2014
    Grand Hôtel, Stockholm, May 8th 2014
    The Market. The Consumer. The Politics.

    http://www.economistinsights.com/energy/event/european-energy-horizons-2014/program

    Sponsored by Vattenfall

    • bachcole

      I am not a conspiracy dude, or even a positive conspiracy dude based upon wishful thinking, but from reading Mats Lewan’s first hand account, I would not be too sure that this conference has NOTHING to do with the E-Cat. There is so much behind the scenes that we don’t see. If Vattenfall is sponsoring it, the E-Cat is definitely in some people’s thinking.

  • From “David” in that original thread:
    _____________
    “As you know, Elforsk is one of the players that indirectly finance the evaluation of Ecat, but there are more players who participate in this long-term test. I guess, in May / June, information will start coming out.”

    _____________
    Looks like we still have a month or so to go.

  • catman

    I notice some confusion about the involved swedish institutions . As we hopefully now are quite close to breaking news it might be good to be fully updated. .

    Here some facts:
    KTH stands for Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan ( the Royal Technical University) and is located in center of Stockholm. KTH rewards Nobel Price in Physics and Chemistry. http://www.kth.se/en/om/nobel

    Uppsala University is the oldest in Sweden ( anno1477) and obviously placed in Uppsala about
    60 km north from Stockholm.http://www.uu.se/en/about-uu/

    • joseph j

      I think it is the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences that awards the Nobel Prizes .
      http://www.kva.se/en/

  • catman

    I notice some confusion about the involved swedish institutions . As we hopefully now are quite close to breaking news it might be good to be fully updated. .

    Here some facts:
    KTH stands for Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan ( the Royal Technical University) and is located in center of Stockholm. KTH rewards Nobel Price in Physics and Chemistry. http://www.kth.se/en/om/nobel

    Uppsala University is the oldest in Sweden ( anno1477) and obviously placed in Uppsala about
    60 km north from Stockholm.http://www.uu.se/en/about-uu/

    • joseph j

      I think it is the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences that awards the Nobel Prizes .
      http://www.kva.se/en/

  • Neanderthal

    You have to respect Mary Yugo opinions its people like him/her that debunk fraudster. Now he/she knows that Rossi was actually telling the truth. Do you think he/she will give him a public apology.
    In all of his/her attempts to ruffle Rossis feathers. Rossi remained peaceful and humble and didnt even resort to his/her rhetoric. I congratulate his character.
    And btw welcome on board Mary Yugo whoever you may be.
    All is forgiven and to finish off. Andrea Rossi would say “My Kind regards”

    • pg

      Rossi would say “Warm Regards”, and I don’t think people here have respect for MY opinions.

      • Fortyniner

        You are a master of understatement, pg.

    • AB

      Maryyugo acts like the true believer he likes to talk about, just with the wires switched.

      • AB

        …and the real skeptics here are the people who actually went to investigate and test the e-cat, while Maryyugo found silly excuses for refusing the offer to participate in testing of Defkalion’s device.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          yeah, it’s people like Essen and Kullander (peace to him) who debunk fraudsters

          • in Mats Book, Fioravanti is not tender for the Mary Yugo/Krivit competence about steam wetness controversy.

            “He had no sympathy for the discussions on steam quality—those engaging in such arguments did not know what they were talking about, he said.”

      • Guest

        .

    • Fortyniner

      Perhaps Admin can briefly unblock Mr Hody **after** the second report has been published. His spluttering would be entertaining for a very short while.

    • jousterusa

      You write as though everything’s been revealed. Mary Yugo will owe Rossi an apology, I’m sure, but as for right now, we’re all still in the dark. What was it that precipitated (caused) you to think otherwise?

      • Ophelia Rump

        Bogosity

        • GreenWin

          And more sleight of hand attempts to introduce ad hominem attacks. Red flag on both these new “characters.”

        • Alan DeAngelis

          This in a way reminds of the Mpemba effect contest. Why does hot water freeze faster than cold water? http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2012/mpemba-effect-water-ice-hot.asp

          “Competition judges will be looking for an outside-the-box,
          inventive submission. In addition, the format of the submission should be creative and eye-catching.”

          What about coming up with a reasonable explanation?

          PS
          Buy the way, I couldn’t resist this one and submitted my
          uncreative and noneye-catching guess:

          Hot water has a density closer to the density of ice than cold water has. This would allow a higher percentage of water molecules in hot water to cluster into configurations closer to those of ice crystals. This would speed up the crystallization process once the first seed crystal forms.

          So the density of the cold water is a barrier to crystal formation that has to be overcome for crystallization to take place.

          • ecatworld

            Yes, sort of. Hydrofusion in Sweden tweeted that good news was coming a few days before the report’s actual release. There was no public leak of the report before the publication, however.

  • Neanderthal

    You have to respect Mary Yugo opinions its people like him/her that debunk fraudster. Now he/she knows that Rossi was actually telling the truth. Do you think he/she will give him a public apology.
    In all of his/her attempts to ruffle Rossis feathers. Rossi remained peaceful and humble and didnt even resort to his/her rhetoric. I congratulate his character.
    And btw welcome on board Mary Yugo whoever you may be.
    All is forgiven and to finish off. Andrea Rossi would say “My Kind regards”

    • pg

      Rossi would say “Warm Regards”, and I don’t think people here have respect for MY opinions.

      • You are a master of understatement, pg.

    • AB

      Maryyugo acts like the true believer he likes to talk about, just with the wires switched.

      • AB

        …and the real skeptics here are the people who actually went to investigate and test the e-cat, while Maryyugo found silly excuses for refusing the offer to participate in testing of Defkalion’s device.

        • Pekka Janhunen

          yeah, it’s people like Essen and Kullander (peace to him) who debunk fraudsters

          • in Mats Book, Fioravanti is not tender for the Mary Yugo/Krivit competence about steam wetness controversy.

            “He had no sympathy for the discussions on steam quality—those engaging in such arguments did not know what they were talking about, he said.”

    • curious

      Maryyugo shows too much hate and too little real understanding for his opinions to be valuable. Other skeptics have very reasonable doubts -myself included.

      • Neanderthal

        I respect your decisions and opinion. May I ask what your doubts are they about the Lenr phenomenon or Rossis claims?

        • curious

          Rossi’s history has serious red flags. The fact that he sold some non-working thermoelectric generators to the US DOD is well documented. The PetrolDragon affair ended with him in jail, which is a concern no matter how you look at it.

          Besides, he claims to have solved an extremely important problem which many others with better qualifications have been unable to solve. Most persons who do that are either lying or delusional.

          And some information he provides -the robotic factory- sounds delusional.

          For all those reasons, he has little credibility for me. But if other reputable parties have access to his devices and confirm that they work, there is no denying the fact. But the proof must be beyond dispute.

          • US_Citizen71

            Your answer mostly consists of FUD.

            “The fact that he sold some non-working thermoelectric generators to the US DOD is well documented.” – They worked, but they were too costly and too large to use. The US DOD was completely happy with the deal.

            “The PetrolDragon affair ended with him in jail, which is a concern no matter how you look at it.” – The problems he had with Petro Dragon had more to do with the ex post facto laws put in place to run him out of business than anything else. His process worked just fine, but he stole business from the Mafia; taking garbage for free and or paying for it. Not to mention that in Italy they will try you as many times as they feel like until they find you guilty if they want (ask Amanda Knox about that). Considering all charges were dropped; other than tax evasion, the whole thing smells of him stepping on the wrong toes, not of him committing any type of crime.

            “And some information he provides -the robotic factory- sounds delusional.” – Depends on your point of view. A 3D printer could be considered a robot. Multiple 3D printers, an electronic lathe and other CNC machines at one location could be considered a robotic factory.

          • curious

            I have heard about the PetrolDragon conspiracy theory -and actually I think it is reasonable. Who knows the truth, but that mess is cause for concern.

            I’ve read the final report from the DOD about the thermoelectric generators -I can probably find it again if you want to check. The authors tried to put on a brave face, but it was a complete fiasco. Unless they received another -decent- batch of devices which I don’t know about.

            The facts are enough to make me not trust Rossi -my opinion. But I accept when other people confirm his claims.

          • the fact is that the position defended by rossi, cross checked with articles I’ found, with known facts , is more credible that your conspiracy theory…
            where an crook is hired by an US company, to fool DoD, who see nothing…

            at least you have no evidence that rule-out Rossi’s theory.
            just a clear bias.

          • by the way in Mats book the reason why there was “chemical waste” in Omar refinery is well explained :

            the “crude oil” bio-fuel of Rossi, was transformed legally into chemical waste because no product from waste could be transformed in something else waste, especially fuel (strange that they blocked all exception for just fuel).

            Mafia work in waste is well know, and if you were applying you conspiracy competence in reading il couriere della sierra you will have noticed that article where the tanks of omar were sabotages by unidentified people, making a leak that required cleaning…

            The only beneficent of that story was the cleaner, thus the mafia, which succeeded in making the cost explode.

            a good “skeptic” would have noticed that.

            but a characteristic of groupthink victims is incapacity to see the evidence that dissent.

            A characteristic of hypercritical methodist and pseudo-skeptics is incapacity to admit uncertainty, and transformation of doubt into comfortable prejudice.

            The levi&al test shows it works… If the only critics is Pomp&Ericsson (which is a long time opponent, visibly in holy war) then the paper is reviewed positively.
            Even if not convinced, someone serious have to admit the evidence are very supportive.

            Some previous test proved it was working according to people who played football with their own bones.

            TEG and refluopetrolion are mainstream research today, still challenging

            I just fond that article who don’t say more than Mats Lewan’s book, but reference to only 3 positive article in the press
            http://technews.it/ESfcK

            i did not find them on il coriere della sierre which was clearly negatively biased, yet it get cooled recently (claiming more that Rossi was irresponsible rather than dishonest)…

          • friendlyprogrammer

            read my answer above .. it addresses all your concerns…

          • bachcole

            His thermoelectric generators were working fine. They were just too expensive for 20% efficiency rating.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            Getting your facts only from New Energy Times can be misleading as Krivits livelihood is threatened by the Ecat. Who would want to visit an energy site if problems are solved.

            Lisdten to Rossi on the DOD thing you mention.
            “in the year 2000 LTI agreed with DOD to test an industrialized version of a prototype working by the Seebeck Effect: such prototype, made by myself in 1000 hours, therefore extremely expensive, had reached 20% of efficiency; we had to make an industrialized version, economically sustainable, but I have not been able to do it, in fact the efficiency of the thermoelectric modules after industrialized production fall down to 5%, made by modules of 2 to 5 Watts of power, destined to be combined to make any power. The research has been made with the clear knowledge of the fact that the passage from a manufacturing made handycraft by me to an industrialized version could not work. The honesty of our work has been so clear, that DOD continued for years to work with LTI for other issues.”

            Rossi company in Italy was worth $30 million (USD). It was to do with converting waste.

            Surprisingly.. Not many people realize that The Mafia does not only work in the USA, but the also have been known to exist in Italy. Anyone who watches the Sopranos, might be able to tell you the Mafia LOVES waste Management.

            Mafia in Italy.. Who’d of thunk it.

            Anyways laws were changed concerning storage of Chemicals AFTER Rossi had Chemicals stored. Some might think officials had been coerced by the people losing Waste Management business.

            The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES JIMMY CARTER gave Rossi an American VISA (not the credit card type), so when Italy arrested Rossi he could have hid in America with impunity. He did return to Italy of his own accord and faced down his charges. He was not convicted of any charges to do with the storage of chemicals. THE ONLY CHARGE THAT STUCK was tax evasion which Italians are notorious for. His reputation is intact (unless you love Krivits website so much).

            There was a beyond dispute verification published last year. Skeptics just don’t want to believe because nobody could reproduce Pons/Fleischmann 20 years ago and CF became known as Junk science. In reality any who could replicate the P/F experiment kept silent. We are now 25 years later.

            Forget Rossi. 20+ companies now are claiming to have their own LENR devices. The Chief research Scientist at NASA LANGLEY DENNIS BUSHNELL endorses LENR and in some instances ROSSI.

            So if you want to doubt the chief research scientist at NASA then go ahead.

            I will copy/paste an old post below to further this..

            “- Andrea Rossi was very rich before worth $30 million USD. He did not run to hawaii (his Visa handed to him by The President of the United States), he continued environmental science. If his only concern was money he could have retired rich in his 30’s.

            – When Italys mafia took his waste management business by making his storage illegal (Apparently “The Mafia” reaches as far as Italy (who knew?), and they apparently like to control waste management in many countries) Andrea Rossi faced and beat all his Environment charges, when he could have hid in the U.S.A. (remember the VISA the President Carter gave him.).

            – All of Andrea Rossi science is common theme of environmental science.

            – Many scam corporations think to raise money (scam) by selling shares. This scam was common with mining companies. Tell everyone you found a rich vein then sell shares then pay yourself a million in salary and go broke. Andrea Rossi has not sold or tried to sell any shares in Leonardo corporation. This would be easiest scam opportunity.

            – Andrea Rossi is immigrating to the US where anti fraud laws are extremely tough.

            – Andrea Rossi funded the first 5 years of this from his own pocket including hiring Focardi.

            Scammers have a history of using other peoples money for scams, and Andrea Rossi has used his own.

            Since Andrea Rossi made the Nickel/Hydrogen version of LENR popular in 2011, we have seen many unrelated labs confirm this is indeed possible and very effective. So he is on the right track according to many.

            These separate and unrelated entities all claim THEY have a working LENR device. Why would so many reputable corporations claim this? Toyota, NASA, Brillouin, George Miley, Patterson cell, Honda, Mitsubishi, Peter Hagelstein, Celani, MFMP, Defkalion, The Athanor creators. That is a dozen just off the top of my head that does not include the ecat device.

            – He seems to be logically progressing. His best demo was 18 hours on an unstable product and Defkalion bailed on him because he could not do a 48 hour run, but now he is running (confirmed) at much higher temperatuires for longer. If this was fake why did he not fake a 48 hour run with Defkalion or when he was demonstrating in 2011. Are skeptics suggesting he has advanced his fakery in this time?

            – He has demonstrated publicly in front of many skeptics and geniuses many times during 2011.

            – He did allow this recent team to evaluate the ecats with very impressive results, and DC input has also been ruled out. We must EITHER think there is criminal conspiracy among very impressive verifying team of scholars with reputations at stake, or accept the reality of the ecat.

            – Andrea Rossi did publish a paper on this (see his website) in 2010 but it was basically ignored, and all patents for anything suggestive of Cold Fusion have been banned. How would a normal person proceed?

            -He cannot get patents on this because of ban , but also has secret catalyst that is his advantage in market. How would anyone protect it?

            Look at the Zawodny videos on the NASA website.

            Rossi has never been poor. He could have gone to Margaritaville 20 years ago if he wanted to.

            As Forbes Magazine Mark gibbs says,”This is not, of course, the last word or even one anywhere near the end of this story but unless this is one of the most elaborate hoaxes in scientific history it looks like the world may well be about to change.”

            WHO KNEW THIS?
            Andrea Rossi has always been an achiever. As a teen he held the world record for distance running for two years in a row.
            Who here did not know Andrea Rossi was a world champion runner for 2 consecutive years in a competition that required perseverance (24 hour runs).

            He is likely imho to go down in history as one of the men responsible for clean energy and will save millions of lives.

            I say we go easy on the guy. He has ALWAYS done what he said he would do. I think he is very, very, very, credible.”

            So… believe Krivit, or use common sense… There are no red flags. Just ignorance.

          • Andrew

            There is a document on krivits sight. Rossi’s version of the petrol dragon story. Read it. As with any story there’s two (or more) versions and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

          • Andrew

            And to add to the “checkered past”. Don’t you find it funny that someone with such a checkered past would try to run a scam in an area of science that even accredited scientists would be met with severe skepticism? There are easier and quicker scams that could be run.

          • Broncobet

            No ,apparently there weren’t.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            The Wright brothers: “Both brothers attended high school,but did not receive diplomas.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

          • bachcole

            And yet they invented not just the airplane but the entire science of aeronautical engineering. And Edison did not get past the 4th grade. And Abraham Lincoln did not get past the 4th grade. Taking these labels as being credentials that can be depended upon is perilous. Most of the time they have meaning, but not always.

            Langley’s first “airplane” “flew” into the Potomac; more like merely fell into the Potomac. And I believe that the pilot was killed. And Langley had a huge budget, worth millions in today’s dollars, and the Wright Bros. struggled for every penny. I am surprised that they managed to pay to get to Kitty Hawk. They probably had to hitchhike (joke).

          • Ophelia Rump

            Formulaic Bogosity

          • GreenWin

            And more sleight of hand attempts to introduce ad hominem attacks. Red flag on both these new “characters.”

          • Alan DeAngelis

            This in a way reminds of the Mpemba effect contest. Why does hot water freeze faster than cold water? http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2012/mpemba-effect-water-ice-hot.asp

            “Competition judges will be looking for an outside-the-box,
            inventive submission. In addition, the format of the submission should be creative and eye-catching.”

            What about coming up with a reasonable explanation?

            PS
            Buy the way, I couldn’t resist this one and submitted my
            uncreative and noneye-catching guess:

            Hot water has a density closer to the density of ice than cold water has. This would allow a higher percentage of water molecules in hot water to cluster into configurations closer to those of ice crystals. This would speed up the crystallization process once the first seed crystal forms.

            So the density of the cold water is a barrier to crystal formation that has to be overcome for crystallization to take place.

          • Curbina

            You are talking about Rossi’s credibility as if he would be still on charge of all the E-cat development, and no one els would have an idea of what he is doing. That Argument was weakened even since the Levi et al report, but when Industrial Heat LLC entered the scene that argument was rendered absolutely invalid, Rossi is now only a consultant to this endeavour, and if IH is ongoing with this, you can be sure that whatever Rossi says, the e-cat has to be a workable device.

          • orsobubu

            >The PetrolDragon affair ended with him in jail, which is a concern no matter how you look at it.

            It matters, it matters, and you’re lucky if you don’t live in Italy, because the only delusional fact here is our corrupted and mafious legislative power, that changed retroactively the laws in order to wipe off a dangerous new kid in the block.

    • Perhaps Admin can briefly unblock Mr Hody **after** the second report has been published. His spluttering would be entertaining for a very short while.

    • jousterusa

      You write as though everything’s been revealed. Mary Yugo will owe Rossi an apology, I’m sure, but as for right now, we’re all still in the dark. What was it that precipitated (caused) you to think otherwise?

      • Neanderthal

        I work for one of the most Prestigous Scientific Institute in the UK.

        We been keeping a very close eye on This particular development. We know that the Lenr phenomena is real we have studied literature in their abundance and have concluded this new science is a dragon with many tails.let say that the general attitudes and direction among our colleagues have more weight than meer whispers in the refreshment rooms.

        • GreenWin

          Early man. Please confirm it is not University East Anglia. Or the Met Office. 🙂

          • blanco69

            I’m thinking Coventry University.😉

        • Omega Z

          Would that be the
          University of Cambridge

          Brian Josephson,
          theoretical physicist &
          professor emeritus of physics
          University of Cambridge

  • Neanderthal

    I respect your decisions and opinion. May I ask what your doubts are they about the Lenr phenomenon or Rossis claims?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Let’s see if we can extract some chunks of information from the source that has been cited by David. The original can be found here (cf. p. 53):

    http://www.elforsk.se/Global/Om%20Elforsk/Filer/ELFORSKs%20FoU-plan%202013%20webb.pdf

    The financing is fixed until 2015 inclusive. Thus, some of that money could possibly have gone into the new 3rd party test. The numbers in the second column indicate the sources of the funding:

    2 – “SvK”, most likely Svenska kraftnät ( http://www.svk.se/Start/English ).
    3 – “Energiföretagen“ („Energy companies”).
    6 – “Övriga“ („Others“).

    The whole group of projects is listed under the title “Omvärld och system” (something like “environment and plants”). On page 47, representatives of several companies are listed: Vattenfall, Svensk Energi, Jämtkraft, Svenska Kraftnät (v.s.), E.ON, Fortum, Skellefteå Kraft, and Göteborg Energi. Of course, not all of these companies must be connected to the E-Cat project.

    The abbreviation “kkr” in the table means 1000 Swedish kronas. Therefore, the funding comprised a total amount of 6.2 million Swedish kronas, at the moment about 943000 USD or 683000 EUR. This should be enough for some tests, I suppose.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      The amount of 2M SKR for 2015 seems to be provisional, since the number is presented in italics. This could be good news, since otherwise the examining institute might consider it better to take some more time for the investigation. A very important detail is the attribute “Fördjupad granskning“, which should mean „comprehensive examination“. If you take all known facts together, it seems almost certain that ELFORSK is the principal of the current 3rd party test.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Let’s see if we can extract some chunks of information from the source that has been cited by David. The original can be found here (cf. p. 53):

    http://www.elforsk.se/Global/Om%20Elforsk/Filer/ELFORSKs%20FoU-plan%202013%20webb.pdf

    The financing is fixed until 2015 inclusive. Thus, some of that money could possibly have gone into the new 3rd party test. The numbers in the second column indicate the sources of the funding:

    2 – “SvK”, most likely Svenska kraftnät ( http://www.svk.se/Start/English ).
    3 – “Energiföretagen“ („Energy companies”).
    6 – “Övriga“ („Others“).

    The whole group of projects is listed under the title “Omvärld och system” (something like “environment and plants”). On page 47, representatives of several companies are listed: Vattenfall, Svensk Energi, Jämtkraft, Svenska Kraftnät (v.s.), E.ON, Fortum, Skellefteå Kraft, and Göteborg Energi. Of course, not all of these companies must be connected to the E-Cat project.

    The abbreviation “kkr” in the table means 1000 Swedish kronas. Therefore, the funding comprised a total amount of 6.2 million Swedish kronas, at the moment about 943000 USD or 683000 EUR. This should be enough for some tests, I suppose.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      The amount of 2M SKR for 2015 seems to be provisional, since the number is presented in italics. This could be good news, since otherwise the examining institute might consider it better to take some more time for the investigation. A very important detail is the attribute “Fördjupad granskning“, which should mean „comprehensive examination“. If you take all known facts together, it seems almost certain that ELFORSK is the principal of the current 3rd party test.

  • jousterusa

    Help! I need a test report fix! I’m getting ulcers awaiting word!

  • jousterusa

    Help! I need a test report fix! I’m getting ulcers awaiting word!

  • WantOffTheGrid

    No comments today by Mr. Rossi hopfully happily reading the report before it’s released.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Getting your facts only from New Energy Times can be misleading as Krivits livelihood is threatened by the Ecat. Who would want to visit an energy site if problems are solved.

    Lisdten to Rossi on the DOD thing you mention.
    “in the year 2000 LTI agreed with DOD to test an industrialized version of a prototype working by the Seebeck Effect: such prototype, made by myself in 1000 hours, therefore extremely expensive, had reached 20% of efficiency; we had to make an industrialized version, economically sustainable, but I have not been able to do it, in fact the efficiency of the thermoelectric modules after industrialized production fall down to 5%, made by modules of 2 to 5 Watts of power, destined to be combined to make any power. The research has been made with the clear knowledge of the fact that the passage from a manufacturing made handycraft by me to an industrialized version could not work. The honesty of our work has been so clear, that DOD continued for years to work with LTI for other issues.”

    Rossi company in Italy was worth $30 million (USD). It was to do with converting waste.

    Surprisingly.. Not many people realize that The Mafia does not only work in the USA, but the also have been known to exist in Italy. Anyone who watches the Sopranos, might be able to tell you the Mafia LOVES waste Management.

    Mafia in Italy.. Who’d of thunk it.

    Anyways laws were changed concerning storage of Chemicals AFTER Rossi had Chemicals stored. Some might think officials had been coerced by the people losing Waste Management business.

    The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES JIMMY CARTER gave Rossi an American VISA (not the credit card type), so when Italy arrested Rossi he could have hid in America with impunity. He did return to Italy of his own accord and faced down his charges. He was not convicted of any charges to do with the storage of chemicals. THE ONLY CHARGE THAT STUCK was tax evasion which Italians are notorious for. His reputation is intact (unless you love Krivits website so much).

    There was a beyond dispute verification published last year. Skeptics just don’t want to believe because nobody could reproduce Pons/Fleischmann 20 years ago and CF became known as Junk science. In reality any who could replicate the P/F experiment kept silent. We are now 25 years later.

    Forget Rossi. 20+ companies now are claiming to have their own LENR devices. The Chief research Scientist at NASA LANGLEY DENNIS BUSHNELL endorses LENR and in some instances ROSSI.

    So if you want to doubt the chief research scientist at NASA then go ahead.

    I will copy/paste an old post below to further this..

    “- Andrea Rossi was very rich before worth $30 million USD. He did not run to hawaii (his Visa handed to him by The President of the United States), he continued environmental science. If his only concern was money he could have retired rich in his 30’s.

    – When Italys mafia took his waste management business by making his storage illegal (Apparently “The Mafia” reaches as far as Italy (who knew?), and they apparently like to control waste management in many countries) Andrea Rossi faced and beat all his Environment charges, when he could have hid in the U.S.A. (remember the VISA the President Carter gave him.).

    – All of Andrea Rossi science is common theme of environmental science.

    – Many scam corporations think to raise money (scam) by selling shares. This scam was common with mining companies. Tell everyone you found a rich vein then sell shares then pay yourself a million in salary and go broke. Andrea Rossi has not sold or tried to sell any shares in Leonardo corporation. This would be easiest scam opportunity.

    – Andrea Rossi is immigrating to the US where anti fraud laws are extremely tough.

    – Andrea Rossi funded the first 5 years of this from his own pocket including hiring Focardi.

    Scammers have a history of using other peoples money for scams, and Andrea Rossi has used his own.

    Since Andrea Rossi made the Nickel/Hydrogen version of LENR popular in 2011, we have seen many unrelated labs confirm this is indeed possible and very effective. So he is on the right track according to many.

    These separate and unrelated entities all claim THEY have a working LENR device. Why would so many reputable corporations claim this? Toyota, NASA, Brillouin, George Miley, Patterson cell, Honda, Mitsubishi, Peter Hagelstein, Celani, MFMP, Defkalion, The Athanor creators. That is a dozen just off the top of my head that does not include the ecat device.

    – He seems to be logically progressing. His best demo was 18 hours on an unstable product and Defkalion bailed on him because he could not do a 48 hour run, but now he is running (confirmed) at much higher temperatuires for longer. If this was fake why did he not fake a 48 hour run with Defkalion or when he was demonstrating in 2011. Are skeptics suggesting he has advanced his fakery in this time?

    – He has demonstrated publicly in front of many skeptics and geniuses many times during 2011.

    – He did allow this recent team to evaluate the ecats with very impressive results, and DC input has also been ruled out. We must EITHER think there is criminal conspiracy among very impressive verifying team of scholars with reputations at stake, or accept the reality of the ecat.

    – Andrea Rossi did publish a paper on this (see his website) in 2010 but it was basically ignored, and all patents for anything suggestive of Cold Fusion have been banned. How would a normal person proceed?

    -He cannot get patents on this because of ban , but also has secret catalyst that is his advantage in market. How would anyone protect it?

    Look at the Zawodny videos on the NASA website.

    Rossi has never been poor. He could have gone to Margaritaville 20 years ago if he wanted to.

    As Forbes Magazine Mark gibbs says,”This is not, of course, the last word or even one anywhere near the end of this story but unless this is one of the most elaborate hoaxes in scientific history it looks like the world may well be about to change.”

    WHO KNEW THIS?
    Andrea Rossi has always been an achiever. As a teen he held the world record for distance running for two years in a row.
    Who here did not know Andrea Rossi was a world champion runner for 2 consecutive years in a competition that required perseverance (24 hour runs).

    He is likely imho to go down in history as one of the men responsible for clean energy and will save millions of lives.

    I say we go easy on the guy. He has ALWAYS done what he said he would do. I think he is very, very, very, credible.”

    So… believe Krivit, or use common sense… There are no red flags. Just ignorance.

  • Andrew

    There is a document on krivits sight. Rossi’s version of the petrol dragon story. Read it. As with any story there’s two (or more) versions and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

  • NT

    I don’t know if this is relevant to eCat and LENR in general, but something may be going on as a result of the upcoming report:

    “The CEO, CFO, Chief Accounting Officer, and Senior VPs for Government Affairs and Human Resources have all sold large amounts of their stock in Entergy, with CEO Leo Denault unloading over 55% of his shares in December and CAO Alyson Mount selling 46% of hers on April 9”.

    Story link at: http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/top-entergy-executives-selling-stock/

    • bachcole

      It would be nice if someone were to put all of these data points together to see if the make a pattern. It is impossible to tell, IMNSHO.

    • Alain Samoun

      Entergy: I think that it is more related to the poor economic outlook for the nuclear industry. Rats are leaving the ship.

  • Broncobet

    Why did you delete my post? I enjoy these threads and while I’m not a “true believer” I’m not a complete skeptic either. I brought to light in my post the fact that the Energy Dept. recognizes LENR as a source of energy,you have never written about this important fact I thought it would be interesting to the group.You should have lots of different people on here instead of the few you have that post over and over the same thing.Well I can’t barge in where I’m not welcome,if this comment doesn’t make it adieu.

    • Frank Acland

      Hi Broncobet — sorry, I didn’t delete your posts, but they were stuck in the approval queue and all should be posted now.

      • Broncobet

        TY

  • Veblin

    FALLS CHURCH NEWS-PRESS
    The Peak Oil Crisis: Cold Fusion Update
    By Tom Whipple APRIL 16, 2014 7:56 PM
    http://fcnp.com/2014/04/16/the-peak-oil-crisis-cold-fusion-update-2/

    • bachcole

      I am sorry that Tom Whipple found it necessary to mention BLP, especially in such glowing terms. This does not help our case. When Randall Mills puts on a demonstration that is not so embarrassing and an insult to my intelligence, I will stop criticizing them and him so stridently.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I do not think Blacklight Power is fraudulent. First of all the money they have raised (60-80 Million USD)
        belongs to BLP and although he controls BLP he is accountable for its
        budget. There are anti fraud laws in the US. It is likely he draws a
        nice salary, but I bet it is less than what he could earn as a Harvard
        Educated Medical Doctor who Graduated in the top 10% of his class (Top
        10% of those who qualified for Harvard Medical School).

        He is also Phi Beta Kappa. Widely considered to be the nation’s most
        prestigious honor society, Phi Beta Kappa aims to promote and advocate
        excellence in the liberal arts and sciences and to induct the most
        outstanding students of arts and sciences at American colleges and
        universities.

        An average Doctor in the USA earns $200 000 per year. A Doctor with
        Dr. Mills Education would likely be closer to half a million per year.
        These facts are verifiable easily enough to anyone with Internet access.

        So if he has spent 25 years on this project he has given up over $12
        500 000 dollars in wages he could have earned simply doing what he
        learned in Medical School.

        The point here is that he was likely to be rich based on his
        education and obvious Intelligence no matter what he did. He has no
        need to create a scam like a Hobo would.

        Now a bit of respect. Doctor Mills has invented things that have saved lives of many people.

        http://www.docstoc.com/docs/39600858/Mossbauer-Cancer-Therapy—Patent-4815448

        or

        http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v336/n6201/abs/336787a0.html

        (Note: Nature Magazine is not an ordinary RAG MAG. It is the ultimate peer Reviewed Magazine of our time.)

        Now if saving numerous lives from that is not enough. Perhaps you
        know someone who has needed an MRI in your life. Doctor Mills invented a
        process of body scanning and Imaging many years ago. Here is Patent.

        Magnetic Susceptibility Imaging (MSI)

        http://www.google.com/patents/US5073858

        or

        http://www.humanbrainmapping.org/files/2011MeetingFiles/Descriptions/Magnetic%20Susceptibility%20Imaging%20of%20the%20Human%20Brain.pdf

        I will quote “Magnetic susceptibility has been long known to provide rich information about brain structure and

        function.

        Susceptibility forms the basis of both functional MRI and MR venography, based on the BOLD effect. These

        established techniques have had an enormous impact on clinical and basic neuroscience”

        So no matter what you think of BLP and Doctor Mills, the fact remains
        he has likely saved many lives and improved our knowledge of Brain
        functions (esp epilepsy) a great deal.

        Now.. completely forget those two inventions and let’s look at The Luminide. Patent here…

        http://www.google.com/patents/EP0414730A1?cl=en

        I do not even need to talk about Blacklight Power to demonstrate he has had zero need to scam money as you suggest.

        However,

        @ Simon Derricutt,

        The recent demonstration veers from their previous models. I honestly
        have not read much about the experiments but if you have concerns over
        electrodes I’m sure we can both agree that is an obstacle likely easily
        overcome either through use of better materials or amping down the
        reaction.

        I have not read his physics and I have my own opinions about QM which
        also follow probabilistic views. My somewhat Unique belief is that
        Wigner’s Friend/ Schrodingers cat outcome is susceptible to
        belief/common opinion in that I believe in Telepathy because of personal
        experiences and work in the field. This idea is my own, but has been
        lent support in conversations with Professor Brian Josephson (Noble
        laureate, Physics) and in discussion groups. It underlies the notion –
        belief and even prayer may affect reality.

        So I also would have a hard time with a Newtonian Stance. Perhaps I should read his book.

        However. Like you have suggested he likely has some experimental
        data goading him on. This is proper procedure. Had he simply been
        chasing a dream with nothing conclusive then that would be insane, but
        he appears to be spurred by advances. This is encouraging.

        I do not think CIHT Cells have been abandoned. I think he is continually improving on his ideas and exploring new venues.

        Once again I must point out that his recent move to apply for
        Worldwide Patents are not a common move for BLP. He also is no newbie
        when it comes to Patent laws. He has many patents currently…

        “MAGNETIC SUSCEPTIBILITY IMAGING (MSI)

        PARAMAGNETIC DYNAMO ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE

        DETECTOR AND IMAGING SYSTEM. INCORPORATING

        SAME

        MOSSBAUER CANCER THERAPY (3)

        PHARMACEUTICALS AND APPARATUS PROVIDING

        DIAGNOSIS AND SELECTIVE TISSUE NECROSIS

        METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR KINETIC

        MEASUREMENT OF ANALYTE CONCENTRATION

        LUMIINIDE CLASS OF ANTIMICROBIALS

        LUMINIDE AND MACROLUMINIDE CLASS OF

        PHARMACEUTICALS (2)

        ENERGY/MATTER CONVERSION METHODS AND

        STRUCTURES (2)

        LOWER ENERGY HYDROGEN METHODS AND

        STRUCTURES

        A METHOD TO SEQUENCE DEOXYRIBONUCLEIC ACID

        GENOMIC SEQUENCING METHOD”

        So the idea of this patent is encouraging. Even your own beliefs
        have suggested he is likely getting verification via experiment as he
        goes. His demonstration was also a unique process, even if only a one
        of explosion that destroyed the electrodes. It is not like he has a
        Tesla coil hidden under a blanket and is defrauding the entire ordeal.

        To say the test is embarrassing might be a bit strong. BLP obviously feels excited about something to make this Worldwide Patent move, and like I said He is smarter than 90% of the folks who get into Harvard.

        I still choose to be excited about the possibility.

        • GreenWin

          Dr. Mills’ patent on Lower Energy Hydrogen Methods and Structures, is 65 pages with 499 Claims. It confirms the existence of hydrino to the USPTO. That Mills used a seam welder for his low voltage high amp power supply is simple pragmatism. Conversely a typical Tesla coil produced hv with very low current. Mills’ early Ni+H1 reactors are familiar and instructive to later work with CIHT cells.

          Randy has also written an impressive GUT.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            If these patents succeed he could immediately license production and further research. Too bad patents take years to be approved. It is inspiring that he has a lot of experience with the patent process though, and likely knows all the hoops in his path.

    • GreenWin

      As always, an even-handed update. Whipple knows the inside position of several of these players. And he is likely aware of Mills 2000 USPTO patent accepting the “Lower state of hydrogen…” He does not mention Toyota or Mitsubishi, National Instruments, STMicro, or the SUGAR project initiated by NASA.

  • Veblin

    FALLS CHURCH NEWS-PRESS
    The Peak Oil Crisis: Cold Fusion Update
    By Tom Whipple APRIL 16, 2014 7:56 PM
    http://fcnp.com/2014/04/16/the-peak-oil-crisis-cold-fusion-update-2/

    • bachcole

      I am sorry that Tom Whipple found it necessary to mention BLP, especially in such glowing terms. This does not help our case. When Randall Mills puts on a demonstration that is not so embarrassing and an insult to my intelligence, I will stop criticizing them and him so stridently.

      • friendlyprogrammer

        I do not think Blacklight Power is fraudulent. First of all the money they have raised (60-80 Million USD)
        belongs to BLP and although he controls BLP he is accountable for its
        budget. There are anti fraud laws in the US. It is likely he draws a
        nice salary, but I bet it is less than what he could earn as a Harvard
        Educated Medical Doctor who Graduated in the top 10% of his class (summa cum laude = Top 10% of those who qualified for Harvard Medical School).

        He is also Phi Beta Kappa. Widely considered to be the nation’s most
        prestigious honor society, Phi Beta Kappa aims to promote and advocate
        excellence in the liberal arts and sciences and to induct the most
        outstanding students of arts and sciences at American colleges and
        universities.

        An average Doctor in the USA earns $200 000 per year. A Doctor with
        Dr. Mills Education would likely be closer to half a million per year.
        These facts are verifiable easily enough to anyone with Internet access.

        So if he has spent 25 years on this project he has given up over $12
        500 000 dollars in wages he could have earned simply doing what he
        learned in Medical School.

        The point here is that he was likely to be rich based on his
        education and obvious Intelligence no matter what he did. He has no
        need to create a scam like a Hobo would.

        Now a bit of respect. Doctor Mills has invented things that have saved lives of many people.

        http://www.docstoc.com/docs/39600858/Mossbauer-Cancer-Therapy—Patent-4815448

        or

        http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v336/n6201/abs/336787a0.html

        (Note: Nature Magazine is not an ordinary RAG MAG. It is the ultimate peer Reviewed Magazine of our time.)

        Now if saving numerous lives from that is not enough. Perhaps you
        know someone who has needed an MRI in your life. Doctor Mills invented a
        process of body scanning and Imaging many years ago. Here is Patent.

        Magnetic Susceptibility Imaging (MSI)

        http://www.google.com/patents/US5073858

        or

        http://www.humanbrainmapping.org/files/2011MeetingFiles/Descriptions/Magnetic%20Susceptibility%20Imaging%20of%20the%20Human%20Brain.pdf

        I will quote “Magnetic susceptibility has been long known to provide rich information about brain structure and

        function.

        Susceptibility forms the basis of both functional MRI and MR venography, based on the BOLD effect. These

        established techniques have had an enormous impact on clinical and basic neuroscience”

        So no matter what you think of BLP and Doctor Mills, the fact remains
        he has likely saved many lives and improved our knowledge of Brain
        functions (esp epilepsy) a great deal.

        Now.. completely forget those two inventions and let’s look at The Luminide. Patent here…

        http://www.google.com/patents/EP0414730A1?cl=en

        I do not even need to talk about Blacklight Power to demonstrate he has had zero need to scam money.

        He has some experimental data goading him on. This is proper procedure. Had he simply been
        chasing a dream with nothing conclusive then that would be insane, but
        he appears to be spurred by advances. This is encouraging.

        I do not think CIHT Cells have been abandoned. I think he is continually improving on his ideas and exploring new venues.

        Once again I must point out that his recent move to apply for
        Worldwide Patents are not a common move for BLP. He also is no newbie
        when it comes to Patent laws. He has many patents currently…

        “MAGNETIC SUSCEPTIBILITY IMAGING (MSI)

        PARAMAGNETIC DYNAMO ELECTROMOTIVE FORCE

        DETECTOR AND IMAGING SYSTEM. INCORPORATING

        SAME

        MOSSBAUER CANCER THERAPY (3)

        PHARMACEUTICALS AND APPARATUS PROVIDING

        DIAGNOSIS AND SELECTIVE TISSUE NECROSIS

        METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR KINETIC

        MEASUREMENT OF ANALYTE CONCENTRATION

        LUMIINIDE CLASS OF ANTIMICROBIALS

        LUMINIDE AND MACROLUMINIDE CLASS OF

        PHARMACEUTICALS (2)

        ENERGY/MATTER CONVERSION METHODS AND

        STRUCTURES (2)

        LOWER ENERGY HYDROGEN METHODS AND

        STRUCTURES

        A METHOD TO SEQUENCE DEOXYRIBONUCLEIC ACID

        GENOMIC SEQUENCING METHOD”

        So the idea of this patent is encouraging. He is likely getting verification via experiment as he
        goes. His demonstration was also a unique process, even if only a one
        of explosion that destroyed the electrodes. It is not like he has a
        Tesla coil hidden under a blanket and is defrauding the entire ordeal.

        To say the test is embarrassing might be a bit strong. BLP obviously feels excited about something to make this Worldwide Patent move, and like I said He is smarter than 90% of the folks who get into Harvard.

        I still choose to be excited about the possibility.

        • GreenWin

          Dr. Mills’ patent on Lower Energy Hydrogen Methods and Structures, is 65 pages with 499 Claims. It confirms the existence of hydrino to the USPTO. That Mills used a seam welder for his low voltage high amp power supply is simple pragmatism. Conversely a typical Tesla coil produced hv with very low current. Mills’ early Ni+H1 reactors are familiar and instructive to later work with CIHT cells.

          Randy has also written an impressive GUT.

          • friendlyprogrammer

            If these patents succeed he could immediately license production and further research. Too bad patents take years to be approved. It is inspiring that he has a lot of experience with the patent process though, and likely knows all the hoops in his path.

    • GreenWin

      As always, an even-handed update. Whipple knows the inside position of several of these players. And he is likely aware of Mills 2000 USPTO patent accepting the “Lower state of hydrogen…” He does not mention Toyota or Mitsubishi, National Instruments, STMicro, or the SUGAR project initiated by NASA.

  • Fortyniner

    The UK tends to follow US practices in this respect, especially if big money or government are threatened by the research concerned. As an example, a local man (Mark Purdey) made a sound but inconvenient connection between organophosphate insecticides, BSE and Altzheimers in humans, and began making a noise about it in 2005.

    Within a year his lawyer and his vet, both of whom had joined his campaign, died in unexplained car accidents, and the replacement lawyer narrowly survived yet another car accident. I knew the vet concerned, personally. Mr Purdey was also shot at and suffered a number of mysterious fires and building collapses that year.

    http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php/news/archive/2001/8738-bsevcjd-ever-wondered-what-mark-purdey-was-on-about-28102001

    • Omega Z

      49’er
      I’d bet there is far more known & far more people in the U.S. that are very aware of whats going on & what to expect.

      What we don’t know is their intent.
      Should ask Snowden. 🙂

  • GreenWin

    Early man. Please confirm it is not University East Anglia. Or the Met Office. 🙂

    • blanco69

      I’m thinking Coventry University.

  • Curbina

    You are talking about Rossi’s credibility as if he would be still on charge of all the E-cat development, and no one els would have an idea of what he is doing. That Argument was weakened even since the Levi et al report, but when Industrial Heat LLC entered the scene that argument was rendered absolutely invalid, Rossi is now only a consultant to this endeavour, and if IH is ongoing with this, you can be sure that whatever Rossi says, the e-cat has to be a workable device.

  • LENR G

    Rossi’s best guess is June publication in new comment.

  • Rossi’s best guess is June publication in new comment.

  • WantOffTheGrid

    VLADIMIR:
    We’re waiting for Godot.
    ESTRAGON:
    (despairingly). Ah! (Pause.) You’re sure it was here?
    VLADIMIR:
    What?
    ESTRAGON:
    That we were to wait.
    ROSSI:
    Yes until June.
    FRANK:
    Here at e-cat world.

    • GreenWin

      Aw, come on WantOff, that’s a whole lot of theatrical guff man.

    • Timar

      You’ll probably enjoy Zed’s piece Waiting for the E-Cat:

      http://coldfusionnow.org/gallery/zed-short/waiting-for-e-cat-a-comedy-in-two-acts/

    • Broncobet

      Vlad,is this in reference to my post?? Some time back “Godot” wrote “We’re waiting” and I wrote “For you” witch I thought was clever but was probably the only one. Any way it’s two months later and the soonest we can expect the report is the fall.

  • GreenWin

    Aw, come on WantOff, that’s a whole lot of theatrical guff man.

  • Frank, didn’t word get out before they wrote up last year’s report?

    • Frank Acland

      Yes, sort of. Hydrofusion in Sweden tweeted that good news was coming a few days before the report’s actual release. There was no public leak of the report before the publication, however.

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Count our blessings! At least we know not to hold our breath this week. Rossi says it might be June, which in Rossi speak translates to around August 30th. Guess we can go back to our normal routine of only checking this site once a day instead of half a dozen..

    See you in September dudes…

  • orsobubu

    >The PetrolDragon affair ended with him in jail, which is a concern no matter how you look at it.

    It matters, it matters, and you’re lucky if you don’t live in Italy, because the only delusional fact here is our corrupted and mafious legislative power, that changed retroactively the laws in order to wipe off a dangerous new kid in the block.

  • heath

    Over the last few weeks, the phrase “organize a defense” has puzzled me as to the purpose behind the 6 month test that should be concluding shortly from the statement below (Journal of Nuclear Physics).

    Andrea Rossi

    April 4th, 2014 at 12:27 AM

    To the Readers:
    I have been informed that around some blogs there are “rumors”, “whispers”, “innuendos”, “voices” et similia about the results of the long term experiment made by the Third Indipendent Party. I can guarantee that these noises are just certified stupidities. I myself do not know what is in the data collected by the Professors, and they did not give me a bit of such data. They have retrieved the hard disks to avoid any possible manipulation and demanded that everybody who attended the test had to sign a very strict NDA about the fact that no bit of information can be given to anybody before the publication of the report. Such report will be made indipendently from the results, which could be positive or negative. As a consequence of this, any noise made by “rumors, whispers, voices” and acustics of various kind, coming from “Italian” or whatsoever source,are nothing but useless air displacement operated by idle tongues.
    The results will be given first to me 3 days before the publication to give us the time to organize a defense in case of negative output, then they will be published so that everybody interested will have them.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    For me, the question is, organize a defense for who? A patent office perhaps? IH or other investors such as the Chinese? Are we talking about a defense for a COP that is not as sufficient as promised or is intermittent? That the control on the reactor is reliable over a long duration?

    Or is this to finally prove their working theory, the Rossi Effect, as to why the effect of anomalous heat is happening? I see many statements in his blog that alludes to all of these things but I do not believe these tests are to meant to silence the likes of Mary Yugo. Any ideas?

  • heath

    Over the last few weeks, the phrase “organize a defense” has puzzled me as to the purpose behind the 6 month test that should be concluding shortly from the statement below (Journal of Nuclear Physics).

    Andrea Rossi

    April 4th, 2014 at 12:27 AM

    To the Readers:
    I have been informed that around some blogs there are “rumors”, “whispers”, “innuendos”, “voices” et similia about the results of the long term experiment made by the Third Indipendent Party. I can guarantee that these noises are just certified stupidities. I myself do not know what is in the data collected by the Professors, and they did not give me a bit of such data. They have retrieved the hard disks to avoid any possible manipulation and demanded that everybody who attended the test had to sign a very strict NDA about the fact that no bit of information can be given to anybody before the publication of the report. Such report will be made indipendently from the results, which could be positive or negative. As a consequence of this, any noise made by “rumors, whispers, voices” and acustics of various kind, coming from “Italian” or whatsoever source,are nothing but useless air displacement operated by idle tongues.
    The results will be given first to me 3 days before the publication to give us the time to organize a defense in case of negative output, then they will be published so that everybody interested will have them.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    For me, the question is, organize a defense for who? A patent office perhaps? IH or other investors such as the Chinese? Are we talking about a defense for a COP that is not as sufficient as promised or is intermittent? That the control on the reactor is reliable over a long duration?

    Or is this to finally prove their working theory, the Rossi Effect, as to why the effect of anomalous heat is happening? I see many statements in his blog that alludes to all of these things but I do not believe these tests are to meant to silence the likes of Mary Yugo. Any ideas?

  • Christopher Calder

    Restating the obvious, if the report is going to be published in a major science journal, as it should be, the journal would take considerable time reviewing the report before publication. Thus, a June publication date would be reasonable considering the revolutionary nature of the content, even if the writers of the report finished their work last week. If the report were negative, it probably would be just pasted on the web somewhere immediately.

    • Omega Z

      I do not believe it will be published in a Major Science Magazine.
      No Matter Who does the test or Who Peer Reviews the report.
      Apparently even some at “ARXIV” had issues…

      Note: An Impossible Invention
      review by Brian Josephson

      http://coldfusionnow.org/an-impossible-invention-review-by-brian-josephson/

      COLD FUSION NOW!

      Particularly interesting to me, in the light of my past dealings with arxiv, was the text of an accidentally leaked exchange between two moderators, wondering if they could find a rationale for blocking that report.

  • Restating the obvious, if the report is going to be published in a major science journal, as it should be, the journal would take considerable time reviewing the report before publication. Thus, a June publication date would be reasonable considering the revolutionary nature of the content, even if the writers of the report finished their work last week. If the report were negative, it probably would be just pasted on the web somewhere immediately.

    • Omega Z

      I do not believe it will be published in a Major Science Magazine.
      No Matter Who does the test or Who Peer Reviews the report.
      Apparently even some at “ARXIV” had issues…

      Note: An Impossible Invention
      review by Brian Josephson

      http://coldfusionnow.org/an-impossible-invention-review-by-brian-josephson/

      COLD FUSION NOW!

      Particularly interesting to me, in the light of my past dealings with arxiv, was the text of an accidentally leaked exchange between two moderators, wondering if they could find a rationale for blocking that report.

      • bachcole

        I hope that your first paragraph is true. Everyone has different motivations here. Mine is revenge against the skeptopaths; I want them to crash and burn HARD. A gradual realization that LENR+ is real won’t do it for me.

  • bachcole

    Perhaps I am a little paranoid, but what if the professors get it into their heads to quash LENR by deliberately giving a false and negative report?

    Of course, Darden and company probably wouldn’t care and just keep on trucking.

    • Quiet Wine Guy

      Roger, it is fair to keep in mind that there are two groups of 7, both having the same data. Each group keeps the other on the straight and narrow.

      In light of Rossi’s statement that the primary Hot-Cat never went down over the six month period, it is a state-of -the-art Hot-Cat, each group has the capacity to work the operating parameters independent of Rossi, and Rossi has run this Hot-Cat model stably at 1100-1200 Kelvin, I think it only a remote possibility that all 7 of the 2nd tier would do as you suggest. The first group, already familiar with the Hot-Cat’s revolutionary capabilities from last year’s 3rd Party Test, would be all over the 2nd group for such extreme behavior.

      And, we already have Pesserini saying the results were “Remarkable”.

      • bachcole

        I hate to seem insecure, but I have my money on Darden and Vaughn. I’ll have do digest what you just said before my heart stops pounding excessively hard.

      • Omega Z

        The 1st group of 7 with assistants did the test.
        The 2nd group would have minimal contact. Except maybe for pre conference on how to do some tests or fact checking.

        This would be absolutely necessary if the peer review of the Data were to be considered totally unbiased.

        Most overlook the fact that this was done with the 1st test, tho a much smaller lessor known group were involved after the fact.
        Read the report and you’ll see credit of such given to half a dozen others for helping process & reviewing the data.

        I suspect this time, the 2nd group will be of a higher stature.

        • Quiet Wine Guy

          OZ, thank you for the additional perspective.

          I wonder how the 2nd group was selected?

          • Omega Z

            It’s obvious.
            It’s a Black Box test.
            The names would be drawn from a black box. 🙂

    • Ophelia Rump

      Then second round funding will be impossible without sales numbers.
      Product will go to market at a difficult to refuse price in exchange for testimonial.
      The train will leave the station in advance of the station being burned behind it.

      The worst possible case scenario is with a Hot-Cat which works, is that Industrial Heat will produce devices for themselves. Field devices in electrical generation and sell the energy to the grid.

      They would become super profitable either way. In truth, I think the train has already left the station. The band does not play until the next station.

  • Quiet Wine Guy

    Frank,

    certainly Rossi and IH knew this was a high-risk move going into the test. IMO, they had good reason to be very confident as they had just seen the very positive results of the 1st 3rd Party Test.

    I think it reasonable to believe that the judgment of both groups of 7 will be positive and as a consequence the impact upon public perception and even the MSM will be material . . . but it will not wash away the effects of 25 years of the ‘Cold Shoulder’ and public shunning.

    Time will tell.

    • Frank Acland

      According to AR here, it is the 3rd party demands that the report is published — I have heard concern expressed that if the report is positive, the 3rd party might hold up publication rather than come out endorsing the E-Cat; hence the question I put on the JONP.

      • Quiet Wine Guy

        Frank,

        Thank you for the clarification on why you asked Rossi.

        On a different note, has Rossi given any clue as to how the 2nd set of 7 were selected? Presumably those cut from the same cloth as Huizenga were skipped. But what were the fields of expertise? Prior experience with CF? Prior public statements in support of CF? Public reputation for integrity to the scientific method: experimentation trumps theory? etc?

    • Ophelia Rump

      What makes you think it was high-risk?

      • Quiet Wine Guy

        Ophelia,

        I use the term ‘high risk’ to reflect the perception that at the time of the original agreement for the just completed 3rd party test, Rossi/IH could not know for a fact how the Hot-Cat would perform. Also, I used the term as one of the outsiders: all of us do not know the results and extent of the Rossi/IH R&D and testing up to that point. Nor do we know the actual 7 experimenters/authors nor the 7 reviewers.

        If we were in Rossi/IH’s position, we may have see the whole 3rd party testing as ‘low risk’. We just don’t know what they know.

  • Christopher Calder

    I don’t want to be too flippant, but it is probably a fact that the NSA already knows the results of the test. If anyone out there has a family member working for the NSA, apply them with some wine and coax them to spill the beans.

    • Bernie777

      Right, they could tell NASA something they have known for over two years.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Someone probably knew ten to twenty years ago, whether NASA had need to know, that is another matter. That is the way of such things.

        There are two reasons professors do not touch a subject.
        1, it is proscribed by the community.
        2, it is already made dark magic and locked in a closet for the first 20 years of it’s existence.

        Note: When trying to communicate which of the two reasons to an associate, always refer to reason 1.

        Careers are wasted if you touch such things.

        • Omega Z

          I came across something not to long ago that indicated the Military took notice in the Early 60’s. “62” I think.

          Something they were working with that produced excess heat causing major problems. This without Any Input energy.

    • we all know the result of the test since it was not abandoned.

      the only question is whether the mainstream will swallow the crow. seeing Mary &clone reaction make me think that you can still keep your exxon equity for few month.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Most of us knew the “general” result of the test before it even began, because we know the history of this.

  • I don’t want to be too flippant, but it is probably a fact that the NSA already knows the results of the test. If anyone out there has a family member working for the NSA, apply them with some wine and coax them to spill the beans.

    • bachcole

      It is certain that not everyone in the NSA knows what everyone else knows. What kind of a spy organization would it be if they didn’t have compartmentalization.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Right, they could tell NASA something they have known for over two years.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Someone probably knew ten to twenty years ago that LENR is possible, whether NASA had need to know, that is another matter. That is the way of such things.

        There are two reasons professors do not touch a subject.
        1, it is proscribed by the community.
        2, it is already made dark magic and locked in a closet for the first 20 years of it’s existence.

        Note: When trying to communicate which of the two reasons to an associate, always refer to reason 1.

        • Omega Z

          I came across something not to long ago that indicated the Military took notice in the Early 60’s. “62” I think.

          Something they were working with that produced excess heat causing major problems. This without Any Input energy.

    • we all know the result of the test since it was not abandoned.

      the only question is whether the mainstream will swallow the crow. seeing Mary &clone reaction make me think that you can still keep your exxon equity for few month.

      • Ophelia Rump

        Most of us knew the “general” result of the test before it even began, because we know the history of this.

        • bachcole

          True, but we don’t know the rate of acceptance. I know that it is real. I just worry that it will not be accepted as soon as I want it to be accepted. I am particularly fond of the idea that it will hit the front pages of the New York Slimes suddenly and the skeptopaths will get a lesson in their own stupidity.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            The MSM will say that they were burnt by F&P 25 years ago as an excuse for not covering this world changing event but in retrospect we know it was the other way around. F&P were the ones who were burnt.

  • Cold Fusion finally made the New England papers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q6tDTM76hE&feature=youtu.be

  • Guest

    .

  • Sanjeev

    Next question to ask is – whether there will be a press conference, TV news item, youtube videos etc of the event ?
    IH must arrange it so that it makes a big splash otherwise it is mostly same as the last report. (At least for us who are watching it closely).

    • Fortyniner

      It seems that publication is the price for getting the researchers to conduct the tests, but unless IH wants publicity at the time of publication I suspect it will be as low key as possible. No need to alert potential opposition/competition any more than necessary. That probably means a quiet appearance on Arxiv on a Sunday morning.

      • Omega Z

        Maybe a press release,
        But I suspect this is for potential Business Relations.
        All this will take a while & they would see no big need for a Big Public display at this time. Note: There is no ready made uses for it. Still at proto stage
        Besides, TPTB need time to shift their finances according to the new paradigm..

        • Daniel Maris

          I plump for Germany.

        • Paul

          Maybe the test was in Switzerland (SGS), Germany (Siemens) or Russia (Putin).

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Wichita?

          • Bernie777

            Yes, I agree it has to be Wichita. (:

  • Sanjeev

    Next question to ask is – whether there will be a press conference, TV news item, youtube videos etc of the event ?
    IH must arrange it so that it makes a big splash otherwise it is mostly same as the last report. (At least for us who are watching it closely).

    • It seems that publication is the price for getting the researchers to conduct the tests, but unless IH wants publicity at the time of publication I suspect it will be as low key as possible. No need to alert potential opposition/competition/speculators any more than necessary. That probably means a quiet appearance on Arxiv on a Sunday morning.

      • Omega Z

        Maybe a press release,
        But I suspect this is for potential Business Relations.
        All this will take a while & they would see no big need for a Big Public display at this time. Note: There is no ready made uses for it. Still at proto stage
        Besides, TPTB need time to shift their finances according to the new paradigm..

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It does not matter if there are thousands or millions of data. I assume that they don’t use a slide rule for their calculations.

    • Fortyniner

      These are scientists – they will have access to a pocket calculator, maybe several of them.

      • Omega Z

        They Calculate on their smart phone. 🙂

    • some real big engineering have beendone with slide rule.
      It is a tool with a very good logic, which enforce a rational precision, make you modest…
      Be careful with computers, their precision is illusion. A slide rule, and it’s logarithmic way of thinking is more natural.

      anyway i imagine that they will use a computer, Mapple, or even Excel…

      however simple calculation will be the best protection against skeptic questions.
      in fact once the COP>1 is enough proven (it is already proven but they deny reality), skeptics will have to go to their cave and normal calculation will be enough to compute the real COP like you do for a boiler.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Excel is fairly slow. It’s always better to write your own software for data analysis, since it will be faster and more flexible. And you will have full control of what the software actually does, as long as it doesn’t become too complex.

        • Mr. Moho

          SciPy FTW.

        • right, and moreover Excel&al are very bad about software engineering.
          However they are nice to test ideas…

          my natural way to use it would be to make pretreatment, generate a simplified serie, or just key total/averages/variances…
          and then use Excel or alike to discuss about “what if”…

          Probably scientific software do that in a better way.

    • AB

      If they take temperature measurements every second that makes 86400 per day. Let’s say they use 10 thermocouples at once, and test for 30 days straight. That’s a bit less than 26 million data points. That’s a lot for a human, but the computing power of modern machines is impressive. The time to calculate, say, the mean should only be measured in seconds, maybe a minute or so. Even more complicated calculations should only take a very short amount of time. The real work for the human is to make the right decisions and give the right instructions.

      • Omega Z

        A 182.5 days would close on 16 million data points with a single thermocouple.
        Need some more math…

    • Ophelia Rump

      I believe the scope of the report entails more than just input / output ratio.
      If I am not mistaken they wish present science unmasking the actual physics of the process. Where do you get the software for that?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    It does not matter if there are thousands or millions of data. I assume that they don’t use a slide rule for their calculations.

    • These are scientists – they will have access to a pocket calculator, maybe even several of them.

      • Omega Z

        They Calculate on their smart phone. 🙂

    • some real big engineering have beendone with slide rule.
      It is a tool with a very good logic, which enforce a rational precision, make you modest…
      Be careful with computers, their precision is illusion. A slide rule, and it’s logarithmic way of thinking is more natural.

      anyway i imagine that they will use a computer, Mapple, or even Excel…

      however simple calculation will be the best protection against skeptic questions.
      in fact once the COP>1 is enough proven (it is already proven but they deny reality), skeptics will have to go to their cave and normal calculation will be enough to compute the real COP like you do for a boiler.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        Excel is fairly slow. It’s always better to write your own software for data analysis, since it will be faster and more flexible. And you will have full control of what the software actually does, as long as it doesn’t become too complex.

        • right, and moreover Excel&al are very bad about software engineering.
          However they are nice to test ideas…

          my natural way to use it would be to make pretreatment, generate a simplified serie, or just key total/averages/variances…
          and then use Excel or alike to discuss about “what if”…

          Probably scientific software do that in a better way.

    • AB

      If they take temperature measurements every second that makes 86400 per day. Let’s say they use 10 thermocouples at once, and test for 30 days straight. That’s a bit less than 26 million data points. That’s a lot for a human, but the computing power of modern machines is impressive. The time to calculate, say, the mean should only be measured in seconds, maybe a minute or so. Even more complicated calculations should only take a very short amount of time. The real work for the human is to make the right decisions and give the right instructions.

      • Omega Z

        A 182.5 days would close on 16 million data points with a single thermocouple.
        Need some more math…

        • tomandersen

          The average of a billion data points takes less than one second on a laptop.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I believe the scope of the report entails more than just input / output ratio.
      If I am not mistaken they wish to determine the actual physics of the process. Where do you get the software to analyze that and write your paper for you?

  • Timar

    I suggest that when the report has finally come out, and it is positive as to be expected, we shall officially change the spelling of the word “independent” to “indipendent” in honour of Andrea Rossi 🙂

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Great idea! “The Declaration of Indipendence” or “Indipendence Day”.

      • Brokeeper

        Indi 500 cars run on HT-Cat power on the 4th of July.

      • GreenWin

        Indipendence, Missouri… “The show me State.”

    • bachcole

      I can just see “The Andrea Rossi School for Indipendent Thinking”.

    • Barbierir

      too late:

      Italo R.:

      You are totally right, and I am an ignorant: I always wrote
      “indipendent”, but your comment made me check the dictionary: the
      Italian “indipendente”, which I translated always as “indipendent”, has
      instead to be translated “independent”. I learnt it right now, sorry
      for this error that I repeated again and again…therefore now I have to
      repeat, correctly, with the help of Orsobubu, who reminds to me that:”
      the results of the third independent party test can be positive, but
      also negative”.

      Thank you Timar, God bless you.

      A.R.

      • LCD

        Is now a bad time to mention it is “independent third party”. And not third independent party?

        • Ophelia Rump

          Lol, I was wondering what that referred to!
          Thank you for clearing that up.

      • Alain Samoun

        It’s indiependante day. Friday, July 4 – Day of the report…

    • Bruce Williams

      Timar, thanks ! Your funny comment has made my day.

  • Omega Z

    Would that be the
    University of Cambridge

    Brian Josephson,
    theoretical physicist &
    professor emeritus of physics
    University of Cambridge

  • Alan DeAngelis

    The MSM will say that they were burnt by F&P 25 years ago as an excuse for not covering this world changing event but in retrospect we know it was the other way around. F&P were the ones who were burnt.

  • Bruce Williams

    Timar, thanks ! Your funny comment has made my day.

  • LCD

    Is now a bad time to mention it is “independent third party”. And not third independent party?

    • Ophelia Rump

      Lol, I was wondering what that referred to!
      Thank you for clearing that up.

  • Hi Frank, I hope you are drafting a post for when the E-cat report comes out. It would be nice if you would be able to post it – then submit it as a press release. I’m trying to get the Drudge Report to pick it up the day it comes out. Work on a catchy headline.

    • Owen Geiger

      Frank: maybe have a contest for the best headline and subheading. You want maximum impact.

      • Frank Acland

        I think we should not get too far ahead of ourselves — we’ve been told results could be positive or negative. It’s hard to write a headline when there’s so much up in the air.

  • Buck

    Frank, strange happenings . . . your Update #4 seems to have already been edited out of the Rossi Blog reader RossiLiveCat.com

    I can’t imagine what that means though it’s possible to spin many scenarios.

    UPDATE: Wild . . . its has been re-edited back to the original.

    • GreenWin

      Buck, my favorite is more time for back channel M&A activity. So far I count about $25B in potentially influenced activity.

      • Ophelia Rump

        That is awesome, you are a minor deity in my eyes!
        I will not ask how, I am not worthy.

      • Buck

        I here JJ Abrams is going to do the movie.

        Keira Knightly is going to be Rossi’s daughter. Juliette Binoche will play his wife. Daniel Craig will play Rossi and Mel Gibson will play Darden.

        • GreenWin

          Buck, I would suggest Roberto Benigni for Dotorre Rossi. He is an Academy Award winner and… Italian. 🙂 Love your other casting, if a bit UK-centric.

          • Buck

            Yes, Roberto Benigni would be much better.

          • Fibber McGourlick

            Bad choice unless you want someone whose personna is that of a dimwitted clown to play Mr. Rossi.

          • Broncobet

            Benigni would be perfect for Rossi,and he is the anti hero,as he pulls off scam after scam yet we keep rooting for him.Remember in”Silence of the Lambs”? At the end we were rooting for a cannibal.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Impossible before May, implies a May release.
      That may be possible but unlikely, and there is no benefit in giving the hostiles ammunition.

      • Buck

        Ophelia,

        FYI . . . previously Rossi indicated that it would not be before the end of June.

  • Doktor Bob

    Dear Admin
    KTH translates to “The Royal Technical High School” and its located in Stockholm – Sweden
    (Not Uppsala)

    Also, as I understand its more of a University than a High School so the correct translatation is maybe a bit misleading.

    I know for sure because I made a little “visit” a few days ago.

    Cold Regards /
    Dr Bob Mihajlovski

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “Högskolan” means a university or a similar academic institute, not a High School. It is comparable with the German “Hochschule”, for example. These words are often wrongly translated, so that graduates who move to the USA may get problems. In Germany, a number of “Hochschulen” have recently changed their names to “Universität”, not least of all due to this dilemma.

      • Doktor Bob

        I just gave the exact word by word translation which is High School.
        Hög = High
        Skolan = The School

        But yes, you are correct Mr Moraitis

        Anyway, it is the nr 1 most prestigious institute for learning in Sweden.
        The equivalent in America is MIT, closely followed by Harvard and Yale.

    • Varmlandstok

      Teknisk Högskola is a swedish translation of the german Technische Hochschule

    • Alain Samoun

      Did you learn something during your little “visit” that you can talk about?

      • Doktor Bob

        Well honestly not really – only general things
        There was no one to speak with because we went there on a Sunday.

        The only people we spoke with was the Nuclear Engineers that let us sneak into the building. I told them about the tests and they knew a little bit about Cold Fusion.

        They said they hoped the report comes out positive and they also spoke about how important it is to be open towards scientific research etc etc

        I was quite impressed …

  • Dear Admin
    KTH translates to “The Royal Technical High School” and its located in Stockholm – Sweden
    (Not Uppsala)

    Also, as I understand its more of a University than a High School so the correct translatation is maybe a bit misleading.

    I know for sure because I made a little “visit” a few days ago.

    Cold Regards /
    Dr Bob Mihajlovski

    • Andreas Moraitis

      “Högskolan” means a university or a similar academic institute, not a High School. It is comparable with the German “Hochschule”, for example. These words are often wrongly translated, so that graduates who move to the USA may get problems. In Germany, a number of “Hochschulen” have recently changed their names to “Universität”, not least of all due to this dilemma.

      • I just gave the exact word by word translation which is High School.
        Hög = High
        Skolan = The School

        But yes, you are correct Mr Moraitis

        Anyway, it is the nr 1 most prestigious institute for learning in Sweden.
        The equivalent in America is MIT, closely followed by Harvard and Yale

        • friendlyprogrammer

          Bologna University – Translated into English would also be silly. Bologna is the fake meat used in sandwiches, and has a negative connotation as in “Phoney Bologna”. If someone is said to be full of “bologna” then they are usually wrong or lying.

          No insult meant to One of Europe’s oldest Universities with Alumni including Marconi, etc.

          Bologna is often spelled Baloney now, but the former spelling is valid.

          There is often things lost in translation.

          • I associate it more with Spaghetti Bolognese as they are both Italian.

    • Magnus

      The correct English name of KTH is “Royal Institute of Technology”.

    • Varmlandstok

      Teknisk Högskola is a swedish translation of the german Technische Hochschule

    • Alain Samoun

      Did you learn something during your little “visit” that you can talk about?

      • Well honestly not really – only general things
        There was no one to speak with because we went there on a Sunday.

        The only people we spoke with was the Nuclear Engineers that let us sneak into the building. I told them about the tests and they knew a little bit about Cold Fusion.

        They said they hoped the report comes out positive and they also spoke about how important it is to be open towards scientific research etc etc

        I was quite impressed …

  • gioj

    the timing of the report coincide roughly with the dead lines which Rossi has at USPTO for E-cat’s trademarks.

    The first dead line is May 19 and the second on May 26.

    Within these two dates, Rossi should submit a statement of use; in theory could also make a request for extension but ………….

    • Paul

      I think that he could not patent a so simple invention or the entire world will know the recipe in a couple of years and soon replicate. In my opinion, he has only two possibilities: to patent single parts, like the hydrogen source or the powder preparation or patent a more complex machine, for example with useless parts/chemicals to hide the essential. On the other side, a patent would be useful to raise the money they need now.

  • gioj

    the timing of the report coincide roughly with the dead lines which Rossi has at USPTO for E-cat’s trademarks.

    The first dead line is May 19 and the second on May 26.

    Within these two dates, Rossi should submit a statement of use; in theory could also make a request for extension but ………….

    • Paul

      I think that he could not patent a so simple invention or the entire world will know the recipe in a couple of years and soon replicate. In my opinion, he has only two possibilities: to patent single parts, like the hydrogen source or the powder preparation or patent a more complex machine, for example with useless parts/chemicals to hide the essential. On the other side, a patent would be useful to raise the money they need now.

  • Mats Hilmersson

    Regarding last years Levi et al. report and the Ericsson Pomp comments: In plot 8, when focusing on the start of the red “Power IN” signal, it looks like the blue “Power OUT” signal already has started to turn upwards. How is that possible? The authors say on page 26 that the two signals are synchronized so Ericsson Pomp is wrong in stating that is unclear. However, I’ve not found this peculiarity discussed before. Let’s say the Power IN signal never had come, would the Power OUT signal increased anyway? Then, can anyone propose an idea on how the Power IN control works?

    • Omega Z

      Rossi has stated at least once that adding power can reverse the heat gain. So in the instance you mention, It could be to keep the E-cat from running away.

      Seems Illogical, However an Eon ago, I read something about something,(Memory lapse) where this was discussed in another topic. Adding heat can reduce heat.
      For simplicity’s sake, I just think of it as building a back fire to control a forest fire.

  • Barry8

    Results “…which could be positive or negative.” Is Rossi playing good COP, bad COP?

    • Anthony Richards

      Har, har – good one, Barry !

  • Results “…which could be positive or negative.” Is Rossi playing good COP, bad COP?

    • Anthony Richards

      Har, har – good one, Barry !

  • friendlyprogrammer

    Less than or just over a month to go. It will feel like Christmas morning like when the last report was suddenly there one day. It would be nice if they spent some cash on the best possible press release.

  • LENR G

    Mid June would be about 10 weeks from the end of March, when we were told the experiment had concluded. That amount of time indicates to me that there were no major roadblocks or disagreements that held up publishing. That’s about the right amount of time to write a solid report. Circulate it. Make any iterations as necessary and address any concerns of the seven reviewers.

    The apparent facts that Industrial Heat is full speed ahead on many branches of E-Cat R&D (as well as whatever it is they’re doing in China), plus now the unimpeded release of the 6-month validation all indicate that mid-June is going to be… well… a lot of things.

  • Mid June would be about 10 weeks from the end of March, when we were told the experiment had concluded. That amount of time indicates to me that there were no major roadblocks or disagreements that held up publishing. That’s about the right amount of time to write a solid report. Circulate it. Make any iterations as necessary and address any concerns of the seven reviewers.

    The apparent facts that Industrial Heat is full speed ahead on many branches of E-Cat R&D (as well as whatever it is they’re doing in China), plus now the unimpeded release of the 6-month validation all indicate that mid-June is going to be… well… a lot of things.

    LENR SCORE: 90sci-91/eng-94/bus-85/soc-92

  • Piero

    How annoying this insisting on the positive or negative results. Ok, nobody knows yet. Let’s just hope for the best and wait. I am much more interested in the commercialization plans of IH

    • Ophelia Rump

      It seems clear to me that Tom Darden is going to market electricity generation to failing, marginal and start-up green energy sites, where the only thing they have to do is wire one into existing infrastructure to leverage those sites into fantastic investments.

      Four fifths of the investment are already in place for such sites, and that investment money already at risk. Those which do not diversify into LENR will be bought out in a few years by those who did.

      • Owen Geiger

        Spot on. The land, roads, parking, permits, zoning, environmental impact studies, contractors, management team, financing, grants, grid tie, solar panels, thermal storage, office/maintenance buildings, fencing, etc. etc. are all in place. IH rides into town and simply plugs in their E-Cat to boost efficiency. That’s shrewd.

  • deleo77

    I do think the day this report comes out will be the most important day in LENR/Cold Fusion since the Pons and Fleischmann announcement. Perhaps it won’t play out that way, but given the surrounding circumstances of a neutral location for the testing, the 6 month test run, more rigorous testing protocols, and the fact that the e-cat is now owned by Industrial Heat and not Rossi; you get the makings of what could be a big deal – if the results are definitively positive.

  • deleo77

    I do think the day this report comes out will be the most important day in LENR/Cold Fusion since the Pons and Fleischmann announcement. Perhaps it won’t play out that way, but given the surrounding circumstances of a neutral location for the testing, the 6 month test run, more rigorous testing protocols, and the fact that the e-cat is now owned by Industrial Heat and not Rossi; you get the makings of what could be a big deal – if the results are definitively positive.

  • Omega Z

    Rossi has stated at least once that adding power can reverse the heat gain. So in the instance you mention, It could be to keep the E-cat from running away.

    Seems Illogical, However an Eon ago, I read something about something,(Memory lapse) where this was discussed in another topic. Adding heat can reduce heat.
    For simplicity’s sake, I just think of it as building a back fire to control a forest fire.

  • Ophelia Rump

    It seems clear to me that Tom Darden is going to market electricity generation to failing, marginal and start-up green energy sites, where the only thing they have to do is wire one into existing infrastructure to take them from marginal to fantastic investments.

    • Owen Geiger

      Spot on. The land, roads, parking, permits, zoning, environmental impact studies, contractors, management team, financing, grants, grid tie, solar panels, thermal storage, office/maintenance buildings, fencing, etc. etc. are all in place. IH rides into town and simply plugs in their E-Cat to boost efficiency. That’s shrewd.

  • Doktor Bob

    I associate it more with Spaghetti Bolognese as they are both Italian.

  • Owen Geiger

    Frank: maybe have a contest for the best headline and subheading. You want maximum impact.

    • ecatworld

      I think we should not get too far ahead of ourselves — we’ve been told results could be positive or negative. It’s hard to write a headline when there’s so much up in the air.

  • Alain Samoun

    It’s indiependant day.

  • LENR G

    Not Sweden, US or Italy?

    At CERN in Switzerland?
    At Max Planck in Germany?
    Somewhere in China?
    In the UK? Finland?

    • where is Vattenfall beside sweden ? Finland? Germany ?

      • Vattenfall has offices in at least 8 countries
        http://corporate.vattenfall.com/about-vattenfall/contact-us/our-office-locations/

        It would certainly not surprise me if they hosted the test. Siemens either. They’re everywhere.

        • blanco69

          Don’t think it’s the Vattenfall offices in London. I was there last Thursday. If big players are involved they normally do these things through smaller third parties. Remember, the results could be positive or negative so some arms length action would be preferable. June could be a long month if the fevered expectation levels remain this high.

          • Omega Z

            “some arms length action”
            I don’t think this would be necessary. If the test is as comprehensive as it’s been implied, Neither a Negative or Positive result would have a negative impact on them.

            In Fact, I think they would receive praise for having the “Courage” under the given environment to seek out the truth. Being Positive or Negative.

  • Not Sweden, US or Italy?

    At CERN in Switzerland?
    At Max Planck in Germany?
    Somewhere in China?
    In the UK? Finland?

    • where is Vattenfall beside sweden ? Finland? Germany ?

      • Vattenfall has offices in at least 8 countries
        http://corporate.vattenfall.com/about-vattenfall/contact-us/our-office-locations/

        It would certainly not surprise me if they hosted the test. Siemens either. They’re everywhere.

        • blanco69

          Don’t think it’s the Vattenfall offices in London. I was there last Thursday. If big players are involved they normally do these things through smaller third parties. Remember, the results could be positive or negative so some arms length action would be preferable. June could be a long month if the fevered expectation levels remain this high.

          • Omega Z

            “some arms length action”
            I don’t think this would be necessary. If the test is as comprehensive as it’s been implied, Neither a Negative or Positive result would have a negative impact on them.

            In Fact, I think they would receive praise for having the “Courage” under the given environment to seek out the truth. Being Positive or Negative.

  • Guru

    First OverUnity hardware on market (i.e. on shelves) will not Rossi E-Cat.
    These will TWO biggest electric water heaters who will use HephaHeat technology from Steorn.
    My guess is June this year. As coincidence Rheem is conducting HEAVY discount for whole production line and these discount are ending 30 June this year.
    And mother of Rheem is Paloma a big Japanese manufacturer. Fulford has success probability around 1,5 % during last years, so his comments about big Japanese manufacturer is not sure.
    Rossi too much long was lone wolf/one man company and this cost him a lot. This was generally greed and extreme unscrupulous to world needs/sunk costs.

    • Asterix

      The US EPA is considering a regulation that requires all water heaters over 55 gallons capacity to be of the new “hybrid” or heat pump type. For the last couple of years, Federal and state subsidies have made purchase of these units very attractive.

      So Rheem is active preemptively, knowing that being stuck with unsalable inventory is not a very good position. Hence the discounts.

      I also suspect that the overall COP of one of the hybrid heaters far outstrips any gains that Steorn’s “hunk of metal” heater can offer.

      • Ophelia Rump

        You would be wrong, heat on demand heaters are nothing new. The first I ever saw was on in Singapore almost 20 years ago.

        They are extremely efficient, no long term hot water storage could beat one for efficiency.

        Steorn has only a new variation on an old theme. Most heat on demand water heaters go from cold to hot quickly. This one just maintains a jump starter heat sink to gain an advantage in the response time.

  • Guru

    First OverUnity hardware on market (i.e. on shelves) will not Rossi E-Cat.
    These will TWO biggest electric water heaters who will use HephaHeat technology from Steorn.
    My guess is June this year. As coincidence Rheem is conducting HEAVY discount for whole production line and these discount are ending 30 June this year.
    And mother of Rheem is Paloma a big Japanese manufacturer. Fulford has success probability around 1,5 % during last years, so his comments about big Japanese manufacturer is not sure.
    Rossi too much long was lone wolf/one man company and this cost him a lot. This was generally greed and extreme unscrupulous to world needs/sunk costs.

    • Timar

      Sure, in one week or two there will be HepaHeat devices from Steorn on the supermarkt shelves… and flocks of flying unicorns will sprinkle the sky with magic pixie dust 🙂

      The E-Cat is NO “overunity” device. It is a LENR device producing nuclear power from the energy stored in matter (E=mc²). Hence it doesn’t violate the fundamental laws of thermodynamics, as the most ignorant pathoskeptics suggest.

      I think it was an unfortunate decision by Frank to give coverage to Steorn on E-Cat-World. If there is one “company” that gives a perfect example of a “free energy” investment scam (that is, in complete contrast to Cold Fusion/LENR with its 25 years of research and vast amount of evidence, physically completely implausible) it is Steorn.

      • Guru

        I executed a typo. I expect these new heaters on market in June-July.
        I am sure that Steorn after a number of fiascos is now real.
        As LENR: Most strange of all for me was XRFS data presented by Defkalion.
        I have hypothesis, that some of these LENR devices are not only producing energy, these are also producing matter. This is wild hypothesis, where I am not so 100% sure.

    • Asterix

      The US EPA is considering a regulation that requires all water heaters over 55 gallons capacity to be of the new “hybrid” or heat pump type. For the last couple of years, Federal and state subsidies have made purchase of these units very attractive.

      So Rheem is active preemptively, knowing that being stuck with unsalable inventory is not a very good position. Hence the discounts.

      I also suspect that the overall COP of one of the hybrid heaters far outstrips any gains that Steorn’s “hunk of metal” heater can offer.

      • Ophelia Rump

        You would be wrong, heat on demand heaters are nothing new. The first I ever saw was on in Singapore almost 20 years ago.

        They are extremely efficient, no long term hot water storage could beat one for efficiency.

        Steorn has only a new variation on an old theme. Most heat on demand water heaters go from cold to hot quickly. This one just maintains a jump starter heat sink to gain an advantage in the response time.

        • Asterix

          @OR, I think the discussion centers around *electrically* heated water. To my knowledge, there are no consumer electrical “tankless” heaters that do not require very high power (ca. 20KW) power feeds Even the new “hybrid” types heat water more slowly than conventional resistive types. Because of that, the hybrids also contain a resistive heater for “fast recovery” demand: Here’s a Rheem unit:

          http://www.rheem.com/product/residential-electric-water-heaters-ecosense-hybrid-heat-pump

          • Guru

            The new HephaHeat heaters from mysterious 2 biggest manufacturers will very probably tankless heaters, so Your note about above 55 galons etc. is not exactly in such league.

            Exact description from 2 years back:
            Agreement with Steorn has “one of three biggest electric water heaters manufacturer in USA” and “one of three biggest electric water heaters manufacturer in Europe”

  • Jesse

    China, where it will also go into mass production at a “re-education camp”.

  • Jesse

    China, where it will also go into mass production at a “re-education camp”.

  • GreenWin

    Off planet?

  • GreenWin

    Off planet?

  • Anomoomin

    Does this mean what I’m hoping it to mean?

    Andrea Rossi

    May 28th, 2014 at 9:18 AM

    To our wonderful Readers:
    Congratulations and thank you for your intelligence. Useless to say to what I refer. You reaction gives evidence of the difference between intelligent people and clowns.
    God bless you all,
    Andrea Rossi

    • deleo77

      It could be possible that he was just told what the results are. I know Rossi said he would find out along with everyone else. But it sounds like a post that is a bit celebratory in nature.

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        Rossi’s birthday is on June3, my guess is that the testers decided to inform him before the birthday, so that he really can enjoy it. at least I would.

        Cheers!

      • bachcole

        It sounds celebratory to me.

    • curious

      It is just a reply to an idiot who posted a prank on JONP. Nothing to see here.

    • Goosebumps.

    • Frank Acland

      My guess is that he is hearing a lot from JONP readers about their reactions to the Swedish radio program — but he doesn’t want to name them and cause more problems. And he’s probably spamming comments about it for the same reason.

      • Might be a language thing, but “Congratulations” doesn’t fit in too well with a simple “thanks for having my back.” Though I’m sure that’s what the rest of it refers to.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      Lol, advertisement on page reads “10 Obvious Signs a Guy is Flirting with You”

      Seriously: maybe the report is nigh (3 days?)

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    If the testing is being done at CERN it would greatly improve the acceptance of the the results. It would make a lot of sense for IH and Rossi to have testing done at CERN.

    • bachcole

      I strongly doubt CERN. A positive result from CERN and game over.

      If the testing was not done in the USA or Italy or Sweden, then I am at a loss to suspect where.

      • Ophelia Rump

        However were they to submit to CERN’s authority as once done with Cold Fusion and MIT. It would leave a certain vulnerability to negative influences.

        CERN is unlikey, highly unlikey.
        Because it sounds like th pipe dream of people who seek absolute, unimpeachable, infallible authorities to tell them what they believe in.

        Change the century and substitute the Pope, and then maybe you will see what I mean.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Why do you strongly doubt?

        • roseland67

          Because a negative result from CERN and game over

        • bachcole

          Because CERN wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole, because Rossi and the LENR+ community has had it with those kinds of people.

      • Because with their past behavior, I would not trust their honesty on that subject.
        Like a photovoltaic cell test done in Koch Brothers resort.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I guess I am not as cynical about CERN, it is just hard for me to believe, a group of scientists with their reputations on the line would deliberately falsify a test, knowing history will prove them to be frauds if they falsify tests.

        • bachcole

          Bernie777, I don’t mean that they would falsify a positive result. I am positive that they wouldn’t do that. I mean that they wouldn’t touch it with a 10 meter pole; they would be afraid that looking at it would destroy their reputations.

        • what have been observed from the F&P time :
          – they will do a bad job, to hasty, and thow the towel at the first negative moment.
          – they will try to recalibrate all, assuming it cannot be true, and confirming that certainty. MIT trick was every day to recalibrate the calorimetre, especially when it was prducing excessheat, to make it disapear… It may even be honest, which is the most frightening for the long term. Honest fraud is the worst thing you can imagine for a scientists.

          I remember of few CERN scientists from italy having tried to replicated Mizuno neutrons and found nothing.
          I bet they simply do all to fail, and not to pursue.

  • Matt Smart

    UK or Germany is my guess

  • deleo77

    It could be possible that he was just told what the results are. I know Rossi said he would find out along with everyone else. But it sounds like a post that is a bit celebratory in nature.

    • stefan

      Rossi’s birthday is on June3, my guess is that the testers decided to inform him before the birthday, so that he really can enjoy it. at least I would.

      Cheers!

    • bachcole

      It sounds celebratory to me.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Andrea Rossi
    May 27th, 2014 at 1:45 PM

    „Maybe somebody will get information about the publication before me, as it happened in past: I am not privileged, I will read the publication and will give information about it and I am in the USA, therefore in China they will read the publication 15 hours ahead of me.“

    Could it really be China? That would be unusual in the case that Elforsk is involved, as one might expect.

    • He did really drop that China reference in there without prompting. Maybe that was a hint for us. If not that China is hosting, maybe that they are eagerly awaiting the results.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I do not know of any evidence that the China relationship was established long enough ago to have existed when the test project was first begun.

    • Omega Z

      Time lines. It could be published elsewhere many hours before Rossi wakes up.

    • Obvious

      I think that was a just a sly joke from Rossi.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    Andrea Rossi
    May 27th, 2014 at 1:45 PM

    „Maybe somebody will get information about the publication before me, as it happened in past: I am not privileged, I will read the publication and will give information about it and I am in the USA, therefore in China they will read the publication 15 hours ahead of me.“

    Could it really be China? That would be unusual in the case that Elforsk is involved, as one might expect.

    • Mats

      Earlier statement was that he would have the report “three day in advance of publication” – that would cover the time difference more than enough. If he refers to a non-public copy of the report, someone in the inner circle might be ahead, but why go public on JOMP with that?

    • He did really drop that China reference in there without prompting. Maybe that was a hint for us. If not that China is hosting, maybe that they are eagerly awaiting the results.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I do not know of any evidence that the China relationship was established long enough ago to have existed when the test project was first begun. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the timeline could address the possibility?

    • Steve Petersom

      Did you miss “…I am in the USA”? Where/Why?

    • Omega Z

      Time lines. It could be published elsewhere many hours before Rossi wakes up.

    • Obvious

      I think that was a just a sly joke from Rossi.

  • Goosebumps.

  • ecatworld

    My guess is that he is hearing a lot from JONP readers about their reactions to the Swedish radio program — but he doesn’t want to name them and cause more problems. And he’s probably spamming comments about it for the same reason.

    • Might be a language thing, but “Congratulations” doesn’t fit in too well with a simple “thanks for having my back.” Though I’m sure that’s what the rest of it refers to.

  • Ophelia Rump

    However were they to submit to CERN’s authority as once done with Cold Fusion and MIT. It would leave a certain vulnerability to negative influences.

  • Bernie777

    Why do you strongly doubt?

  • Guru

    I executed a typo. I expect these new heaters on market in June-July.
    I am sure that Steorn after a number of fiascos is now real.
    As LENR: Most strange of all for me was XRFS data presented by Defkalion.
    I have hypothesis, that some of these LENR devices are not only producing energy, these are also producing matter. This is wild hypothesis, where I am not so 100% sure.

  • Daniel Maris

    Just a guess. There are a lot of outfits capable of undertaking in Germany, I would suggest.

  • Daniel Maris

    Phoney Baloney!

  • Paul

    Maybe the test was in Switzerland (SGS), Germany (Siemens) or Russia (Putin).

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Wichita?

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Yes, I agree it has to be Wichita. (:

  • Timar

    Actually, I don’t think Essén said that the test did not take place in Sweden.

    This is from the transcript made by freethinker:

    Hanno Essén: “We have all agreed not to discuss this until we have a report”
    Marcus Hansson: “Ok, but it is not a test that is ongoing in Sweden?
    Hanno Essén:“No. So much can I say.”

    The “no” could as well refer to the tense implied in Hanssons question. After all, we know that the test is not ONGOING but has already been concluded. Maybe Essén smelled Hanssons bad intentions and was reluctant to give a more detailed answer.

    • Omega Z

      Thanks Timar,
      Now we no nothing more then before the question. 🙂

      If the translation is good, I Agree,
      Hanno Essén gave an honest answer, yet gave nothing away by adding “So much can I say.” Or in Plain English, I can say no more…

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Thank you Timar, that explains it, much to do about nothing.

    • Mats Hilmersson

      I’m swedish and I’ve listened to Hannu in the show two times. To me it’s crystal clear that Hannu says the latest test took place outside Sweden. The transcript simply has some weaknesses as advertised.

      • Freethinker

        This is actually funny…

        I am also Swedish (and made the translation), and to be honest, my reptile reaction was when I heard it the first time, as he paused, that he means “No. So much can I say” as in I can say “No” but that is only what I CAN say, likely due to NDA and a promise not to reveal the place. But then again, if you translate, you need to stay true to the word (even though it was a quickly made translation).

  • Omega Z

    Thanks Timar,
    Now we no nothing more then before the question. 🙂

    If the translation is good, I Agree,
    Hanno Essén gave an honest answer, yet gave nothing away by adding “So much can I say.” Or in Plain English, I can say no more…

  • Bernie777

    Thank you Timar, that explains it, much to do about nothing.

    • AB

      Because there is the political will in Germany to embrace alternative energy sources.

      • Freethinker

        Thank you for this,

        It was interesting.

        I find, though, a couple of things noteworthy:

        First Dr Pomp states that it is ok to do research on a device you do not know the inside of (aka Black Box Test), and continue that it has to be done in a scientific manor (which in itself makes it very fuzzy what he means really). The he goes on that this scientifically performed device test cannot be published in a journal. I would like to say that it it not so. Really. You should be able to find a half decent journal (maybe oriented towards energy engineering, e.g. IEEE Power and Energy Technology Systems Journal ) that would take it, had it not been so infected a subject.

        Secondly, there is that reference to “failed tests” again that completely goes me by. Why would you count the failed tests, and mull over them? Which failed tests? Broken weld seams? Melted reactor? No effect?

        In the end, what matters is that there is ONE WORKING test for it to be a ballistic experience. Of-course the failed test would give some statistics on how difficult it is to make, control and trigger the reactor. But it is not needed to show if it is capable of a POSITIVE outcome. Of-course, Rossi, as an entrepreneur is not interested in having failed result show too much. He want to sell the machine, remember, to make products. Failed test makes bad PR, surely.

        Thirdly, he says that he has been invited to take part in tests, but has declined due to the secrecy. If the scope of a test is to verify abnormal thermal energy release from this black box, secrecy could really not be a problem, as it is a black box, and you need not know the inside.

        I think rather that Dr Pomp is more interested in not lending his name to what he “know” is not working, and in any way contribute to garner credibility to a field of “pseudo” science called “cold fusion” aka LENR – in which I am sure he has no or very little confidence…

        He is in a way right about an organization like SP (http://www.sp.se/en) or PTB (http://www.ptb.de). It is not unreasonable that they could have made measurements on a black box setup. Ofcourse. This was, however, not the avenue chosen by Rossi. No criminal intent or otherwise shenanigans need be behind it.

        But I am not overly impressed by the weight laid by Dr Pomp on the SP incident at the investors demo. I think is was handled badly by Rossi, but then again this tester was imposed on him by the investors group and he is sensitive about his invention. It is not clear to me how it was measured and what was measured, the duration of it and what state the reactor was during the measurements.

        No not overly impressed, as he with such ease rejects the report by his peer scientists as flawed and in error in its finding, himself rejecting to partake in a similar activity because the innards of the black box is “secret”.

        In the end Dr Pomp is a representative of the hard core experimental nuclear physicists that are already convinced that all is known and that it is impossible that it would be changed by some table top experiment.

        I think he may never be convinced, regardless of the Evidence at hand.

    • Pekka Janhunen

      “Review each other” I think just means that all N authors have checked the text and are agreeing with it. Someone might think it unnecessary to mention. But considering that if N=6 while there are usually only 2 peer reviewers, peer reviewing in this case does not dramatically increase the number of eyeballs. That said, of course it matters to credibility that the peer reviewers are selected by the editor. However, if everyone is unbiased (or “a spiritual being made of pure energy” as a colleague of mine says), 6+2 is not that much larger than 6.

  • Broncobet

    I like coming to this site and reading the reactions of people, I had some hope for LENR energy but I don’t think any useful energy will come from it, but I will still drop by to witness any developments you never know, maybe I’m wrong and I’ll say”yeah I’ve been watching that for years now”. The thing is I have been watching for years now and none of these developments make any sense.I posted on here awards of $500,000 US for work on LENR from DOE and no one even replied,if it was energy work GE was into they would apply for $500,000 it’s free money.These people should be working with our national labs which are the best in the world and of course they protect the IP rights.

    • artefact

      Hi Broncobet.

      You got a reply 7 days ago from AlainCo:
      http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/21/a-few-miscellaneous-e-cat-items/

      • Broncobet

        Hey thanks Artefact, I’m clumsy with these links. Alainco had the link to the DOE page that I’d put up here if I knew how to do it. I’m glad that there was some reaction from the LENR community to this offer of grants. Anyway they have a diagram and say energy is between these six points, two points are chemical, and nuclear and the space between is LENR so I know there is interest in this form of energy from DOE and Arpa-E.

  • Broncobet

    Did you delete my post,for having doubts??

  • artefact

    Hi Broncobet.

    You got a reply 7 days ago from AlainCo:
    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/21/a-few-miscellaneous-e-cat-items/

    • Broncobet

      Hey thanks Artefact, I’m clumsy with these links. Alainco had the link to the DOE page that I’d put up here if I knew how to do it. I’m glad that there was some reaction from the LENR community to this offer of grants. Anyway they have a diagram and say energy is between these six points, two points are chemical, and nuclear and the space between is LENR so I know there is interest in this form of energy from DOE and Arpa-E.

  • Bernie777

    I guess I am not as cynical about CERN, it is just hard for me to believe, a group of scientists with their reputations on the line would deliberately falsify a test, knowing history will prove them to be frauds if they falsify tests.

    • bachcole

      Bernie777, I don’t mean that they would falsify a positive result. I am positive that they wouldn’t do that. I mean that they wouldn’t touch it with a 10 meter pole; they would be afraid that looking at it would destroy their reputations.

    • what have been observed from the F&P time :
      – they will do a bad job, to hasty, and thow the towel at the first negative moment.
      – they will try to recalibrate all, assuming it cannot be true, and confirming that certainty. MIT trick was every day to recalibrate the calorimetre, especially when it was prducing excessheat, to make it disapear… It may even be honest, which is the most frightening for the long term. Honest fraud is the worst thing you can imagine for a scientists.

      I remember of few CERN scientists from italy having tried to replicated Mizuno neutrons and found nothing.
      I bet they simply do all to fail, and not to pursue.

  • Mats

    Worst case scenario IMO: The coming report is positive but then we only see more ‘Rossi says’, possibly also ‘IH representative says’. The credability of the writers of the report will suffer badly if not the real goods will be shown up to the world shortly after. IMO Rossi and IH are moral obliged to these people to deliver very soon after a positive report. At least one public installation.
    If that’s not the case, the field will still fascinate me but Rossi/IH will not.

    • Guru

      No, worst possible scenario is, if CoP is 2,7
      and “scientific journal” where report will published is Rossi’r JoNP or ARXIV.
      This is important Modus Operandi for all oldfashioned corporations.

      For example in our country is state owned energetic company CEZ, which CEO is so much out of Picture, that he few days back screaming publicly, that he want buy abandoned assets from Elforsk. Yes, from Elforsk.

      So for some folks it is best way to publish test report in JoNP or ARXIV and all Planet Earth will few months longer sunk 3 to 9 billion USD per day into oldfashioned projects.

      Until now all behavior of folks around Rossi was exactly in this style.

    • Guru

      Again my typo: not from Elforsk, From Vattenfall

  • Guru

    No, worst possible scenario is, if CoP is 2,7
    and “scientific journal” where report will published is Rossi’r JoNP or ARXIV.
    This is important Modus Operandi for all oldfashioned corporations.

    For example in our country is state owned energetic company CEZ, which CEO is so much out of Picture, that he few days back screaming publicly, that he want buy abandoned assets from Elforsk. Yes, from Elforsk.

    So for some folks it is best way to publish test report in JoNP or ARXIV and all Planet Earth will few months longer sunk 3 to 9 billion USD per day into oldfashioned projects.

    Until now all behavior of folks around Rossi was exactly in this style.

  • Mats Hilmersson
  • Mats Hilmersson
  • If analysis is ongoing we’re not going to see a report in June.

    Unless they plan on two reports. One on the E-Cat performance and one on fuel analysis. I guess that might be a good approach.

    • Gerard McEk

      Maybe the test also continues, perhaps interrupted to take some samples of the E-cat interior. The analysis may include mass spectrum analysis of these materials. Maybe the report will just be an interim report as you suggest LENR G. That’s what I hope for. Andrea, I am patient but it’s getting tougher now….

      • I think the ‘fact’ that they are looking closely at the fuel means the report will be POSITIVE, though it might still be positive or negative.

        Why look closely at the nickel charge if it was just a cylindrical toaster?

      • Omega Z

        The statement “The test was not Done in Sweden sounds as if concluded.

    • deleo77

      Yeah, in the letter from the Swedish scientists they said they were investigating anomalous heat gain, and then if there is a change in the fuel’s isotopic composition. My guess is they are doing that second part back in Sweden now, and hopefully it will be in a second report so we don’t have to wait for the results on the first part.

      In an indirect and speculative way this would also suggest a positive result. If there was no gain with the reactor there wouldn’t be a need to analyze the fuel. It would just be a null test and they would probably stop and not continue with part B.

      • ecatworld

        Personally, I don’t think it would make a lot of sense to issue two reports, even though I would prefer to see something as soon as possible. I’m resigned that we may have to wait beyond June.

        • Fortyniner

          On the upside, there is a small but definite possibility that the 2nd report may eventually be published as a part of a (much) larger splash. Unless any planned disclosure of a long-running pilot plant in the US is a long way off, it would be worth delaying publication for as long as it takes to make the events coincide.

          I am guessing that the researchers would be happy with this if it avoids the ‘lead balloon’ effect that accompanied publication of the 1st report. A running plant made accessible to selected observers would go a long way in silencing the skeptics (genuine and ‘sponsored’) who will otherwise challenge the results on every conceivable level.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi indicated the 2 would not be linked.
            No Intentionally anyway.

        • Paul

          It is a common practice in science, to give the first authorship to different people of the team. I hope they will do at least 2 papers, one on COP and one on isotopic analysis and a tentative explanation.

        • Omega Z

          I already allowed a longer time period. June/August. July??
          I’m aware of Rossi’s eternal optimism.
          Wasn’t Rossi shy about 4 weeks on the timing last time.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I expect many reports to have roots in this current study for decades to come. I think it is early to start counting them.

    • Paul

      It is possible they will write more than one paper, one measuring energy (soon) and one with a possible explanation (later).

  • If analysis is ongoing we’re not going to see a report in June.

    Unless they plan on two reports. One on the E-Cat performance and one on fuel analysis. I guess that might be a good approach.

    • Gerard McEk

      Maybe the test also continues, perhaps interrupted to take some samples of the E-cat interior. The analysis may include mass spectrum analysis of these materials. Maybe the report will just be an interim report as you suggest LENR G. That’s what I hope for. Andrea, I am patient but it’s getting tougher now….

      • I think the ‘fact’ that they are looking closely at the fuel means the report will be POSITIVE, though it might still be positive or negative.

        Why look closely at the nickel charge if it was just a cylindrical toaster?

      • Omega Z

        The statement “The test was not Done in Sweden sounds as if concluded.

    • deleo77

      Yeah, in the letter from the Swedish scientists they said they were investigating anomalous heat gain, and then if there is a change in the fuel’s isotopic composition. My guess is they are doing that second part back in Sweden now, and hopefully it will be in a second report so we don’t have to wait for the results on the first part.

      In an indirect and speculative way this would also suggest a positive result. If there was no gain with the reactor there wouldn’t be a need to analyze the fuel. It would just be a null test and they would probably stop and not continue with part B.

      • Frank Acland

        Personally, I don’t think it would make a lot of sense to issue two reports, even though I would prefer to see something as soon as possible. I’m resigned that we may have to wait beyond June.

        • On the upside, there is a small but definite possibility that the 2nd report may eventually be published as a part of a (much) larger splash. Unless any planned disclosure of a long-running pilot plant in the US is a long way off, it would be worth delaying publication for as long as it takes to make the events coincide.

          I am guessing that the researchers would be happy with this if it avoids the ‘lead balloon’ effect that accompanied publication of the 1st report. A running plant made accessible to selected observers would go a long way in silencing the skeptics (genuine and ‘sponsored’) who will otherwise challenge the results on every conceivable level.

          • Omega Z

            Rossi indicated the 2 would not be linked.
            No Intentionally anyway.

        • Paul

          It is a common practice in science, to give the first authorship to different people of the team. I hope they will do at least 2 papers, one on COP and one on isotopic analysis and a tentative explanation.

        • Omega Z

          I already allowed a longer time period. June/August. July??
          I’m aware of Rossi’s eternal optimism.
          Wasn’t Rossi shy about 4 weeks on the timing last time.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I expect many reports to have roots in this current study for decades to come. I think it is early to start counting them.

      Researchers often do not publish the data for ongoing work for years at a time. I am not so sure how much will be revealed until they have a lock on theory.

    • Paul

      It is possible they will write more than one paper, one measuring energy (soon) and one with a possible explanation (later).

  • Curbina

    Is
    really interesting to see Rossi stating that he does not know really
    what was measured or how. This would suggest that the experimenters had
    access to everything including the interior of the reactor. This should
    be enough freedom to dismiss anyone criticizing
    the results and conclusions. I often think that the people that
    criticizes Hanno Essen as being friend of Rossi and a bad scientist
    really have no Idea who Essen is and what was his stance on Cold Fusion
    before getting involved in this. For me is precisely the contrary.
    Having someone as acidly critic of Free Energy claims as James Randy (as
    I think Essen is) taking part into this research should have everyone
    wondering what has he seen that got him interested enough to get
    involved.

    • bachcole

      Interpersonal trust is not very strong among skeptics, especially skeptopaths.

    • Omega Z

      It sounds according to both parties that the fuel has/will be analyzed but Clarity is lacking. Rossi just saying he doesn’t know.

      As to “Free Energy”, This statement always raises a Red Flag for Me. I immediately have to stand back just to analyze whether they know what they are saying. Nothing is Free.

      To My knowledge, Rossi has always been a stickler in stating Cheaper. Hurdle number 1 is out of the way. Need only follow the Data from there.

      • Curbina

        Omega, I referred to Free Energy as a “one size fits all” term that is often used derisively by skeptics. Should have used Cold Fusion instead, I reckon, of which nuclear physicists (included Essen) normally talk of being pseudoscience. Of course LENR is not free energy, but with the potential of making energy very cheap in the long term.

        • Omega Z

          Curbina
          Sorry if you thought that was Aimed At You.

          Blogs are problematic that way. One can easily be misinterpreted & different time zones skew communications adding to misunderstandings.

          I meant it as to people who Claim they have developed a Free Energy device.

  • Curbina

    Is really interesting to see Rossi stating that he does not know really what was measured or how. This would suggest that the experimenters had access to everything including the interior of the reactor. This should be enough freedom to dismiss anyone criticizing the results and conclusions.

    I often think that the people that criticizes Hanno Essen as being friend of Rossi and a bad scientist really have no Idea who Essen is and what was his stance on Cold Fusion before getting involved in this. For me is precisely the contrary. Having someone as acidly critic of Free Energy claims as James Randy (as I think Essen is) taking part into this research should have everyone
    wondering what has he seen that got him interested enough to get involved.

    • bachcole

      Interpersonal trust is not very strong among skeptics, especially skeptopaths.

      • Broncobet

        Right,7.1 billion people are nuts and the only sane ones are the twenty on this blog. btw I agree with you that there is a good chance (but less than50%)that the Rossi effect is real but that it doesn’t make it to market until 2030.I know you think the odds are higher .

    • Omega Z

      It sounds according to both parties that the fuel has/will be analyzed but Clarity is lacking. Rossi just saying he doesn’t know.

      As to “Free Energy”, This statement always raises a Red Flag for Me. I immediately have to stand back just to analyze whether they know what they are saying. Nothing is Free.

      To My knowledge, Rossi has always been a stickler in stating Cheaper. Hurdle number 1 is out of the way. Need only follow the Data from there.

      • Curbina

        Omega, I referred to Free Energy as a “one size fits all” term that is often used derisively by skeptics. Should have used Cold Fusion instead, I reckon, of which nuclear physicists (included Essen) normally talk of being pseudoscience. Of course LENR is not free energy, but with the potential of making energy very cheap in the long term.

        • Omega Z

          Curbina
          Sorry if you thought that was Aimed At You.

          Blogs are problematic that way. One can easily be misinterpreted & different time zones skew communications adding to misunderstandings.

          I meant it as to people who Claim they have developed a Free Energy device.

  • Frederic

    So is it taking place in Sweden (update #7) or not in Sweden (update #6) ?

    • ecatworld

      Essen said the E-Cat testing was not being done in Sweden, and Rossi says there is lab analysis taking place in Sweden. If both statements are true, then it would mean that whatever is being analyzed has been taken to Sweden from another country.

      • Omega Z

        Yes, it could be they took the isotopes to their labs to analyze them. Depending on who all is involved, this may be taking place elsewhere at the same time.

  • Frederic

    So is it taking place in Sweden (update #7) or not in Sweden (update #6) ?

    • Frank Acland

      Essen said the E-Cat testing was not being done in Sweden, and Rossi says there is lab analysis taking place in Sweden. If both statements are true, then it would mean that whatever is being analyzed has been taken to Sweden from another country.

      • Omega Z

        Yes, it could be they took the isotopes to their labs to analyze them. Depending on who all is involved, this may be taking place elsewhere at the same time.

  • Mats Hilmersson

    The discussion with Stephan Pomp in the commentary field of his blog today may be of some interest. He state he was asked to participate in the testing.
    http://stephanpomp.blogspot.se/2014/05/rossi-affaren-i-p1-en-kommentar.html?showComment=1401977541700#c5189978244248923445

    • Curbina

      I find it interesting of course. Seems, to me, that deal breaker for Mr. Pomp was not that they could not publish what they want, but whenever they wanted during the test. This is my conclusion based in that Rossi has said that the final publication decision was in the hands of the testers since the get go.

    • Freethinker

      Thank you for this,

      It was interesting.

      I find, though, a couple of things noteworthy:

      First Dr Pomp states that it is ok to do research on a device you do not know the inside of (aka Black Box Test), and continue that it has to be done in a scientific manor (which in itself makes it very fuzzy what he means really). Then he goes on that this scientifically performed device test cannot be published in a journal. I would like to say that it is not so. Really. You should be able to find a half decent journal (maybe oriented towards energy engineering, e.g. IEEE Power and Energy Technology Systems Journal ) that would take it, had it not been so infected a subject.

      Secondly, there is that reference to “failed tests” again that completely goes me by. Why would you count the failed tests, and mull over them? Which failed tests? Broken weld seams? Melted reactor? No effect?

      In the end, what matters is that there is ONE WORKING test for it to be a ballistic experience. Of-course the failed test would give some statistics on how difficult it is to make, control and trigger the reactor. But it is not needed to show if it is capable of a POSITIVE outcome. Of-course, Rossi, as an entrepreneur is not interested in having failed result show too much. He want to sell the machine, remember, to make products. Failed test makes bad PR, surely.

      Thirdly, he says that he has been invited to take part in tests, but has declined due to the secrecy. If the scope of a test is to verify abnormal thermal energy release from this black box, secrecy could really not be a problem, as it is a black box, and you need not know the inside.

      I think rather that Dr Pomp is more interested in not lending his name to what he “know” is not working, and in any way contribute to garner credibility to a field of “pseudo” science called “cold fusion” aka LENR – in which I am sure he has no or very little confidence…

      He is in a way right about an organization like SP (http://www.sp.se/en) or PTB (http://www.ptb.de). It is not unreasonable that they could have made measurements on a black box setup. Ofcourse. This was, however, not the avenue chosen by Rossi. No criminal intent or otherwise shenanigans need be behind it.

      But I am not overly impressed by the weight laid by Dr Pomp on the SP incident at the investors demo. I think is was handled badly by Rossi, but then again this tester was imposed on him by the investors group and he is sensitive about his invention. It is not clear to me how it was measured and what was measured, the duration of it and what state the reactor was during the measurements.

      No not overly impressed, as he with such ease rejects the report by his peer scientists as flawed and in error in its finding, himself rejecting to partake in a similar activity because the innards of the black box is “secret”.

      In the end Dr Pomp is a representative of the hard core experimental nuclear physicists that are already convinced that all is known and that it is impossible that it would be changed by some table top experiment.

      I think he may never be convinced, regardless of the Evidence at hand.

      • bachcole

        Mr. Pomp, not Dr. Pomp. He is no longer worthy of being called “doctor”.

    • bachcole

      Let us try to see what Stephan Pomp was thinking when he was presented with the opportunity to participate in the testing.

      The test being a black box doesn’t sound like a good reason to bow out of the testing. He has already dumped on the first TIP test. Surely he is not so philosophically retarded that he doesn’t realize that all testing dealing with gravity, charge, and what is going on in people’s heads are black box testings. So, I find that to be a very lame excuse.

      No, he looked at the opportunity and either he thought that the E-Cat was unreal, in which case he would have jumped at the opportunity to be able to say, “See, I told you so.” Or else he thought that the E-Cat was real, in which case he would end up contradicting himself. But Stephen Hawking has demonstrated that one can be a hero for doing that sort of thing. No, I believe that his real reason was that he was afraid that the E-Cat was real and if he signed his name to the test report that other people would do to him what he did to the 2013 Levi et. al. test report. Now, I am going to refrain from characterizing what I think of that sort of behavior because Frank has a tendency to moderate me when I do; I leave to the student as an assignment to find the adjectives and nouns that describe that sort of behavior.

    • Brokeeper

      Pomp’s About Me: …..” I’m also an inveterate atheist and member of the Humanist……” explains it all to me. Unlike Rossi’s humility and recognition where truth comes from, Pomp blocks it out with what he alone perceives. Reminds me of an ancient ruler who once asked “What is truth” while staring right at it just before killing it. My proposal is to just ignore him and let Pomp’s circumstances.

      • bachcole

        The skeptopath’s attitude is “Nothing is true unless it has been proven.” Why one would go to all of the trouble of discovering if something is true if it isn’t true (because it hasn’t been proven yet), is a mystery to me.

        • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

          It looks like some people are overconfident that being skeptic is what causes science to develop. The truth is that you mix optimism by skepticism. It is true that for a lone researcher one have to fix the state of mind alternatively, and make sure to keep a balance. If you find people lack any of these sides of the coin, you can add a -path to their credentials.

          • bachcole

            I couldn’t agree more. And maintaining balance requires effort a lot of the time. It seemed like I sweated psych blood for 19 months trying to decide whether Rossi was for real, and then the 2013 Levi et. al. report came out, and I was able to relax. (:->)

  • bitplayer

    Start with the view of dependent origination. De-abstract that to a view of the world as a poly-divisible network of causes and effects. Represent the network as a data flow diagram. Set the scale so that individual people in the network appear as pinpoint process ovals on a map of the world, and their financial accounts appear as pinpoint data stores. Filter the processes for high net worth individuals. Filter again for risk takers. Filter the data flows for investment transactions. Color the trillions of dollars of low earning capital in the accounts as green. Drop the new report into the network. Watch where the green flows.

  • LuFong

    Very interesting. Now we know why Rossi insists on misspelling “Independent”? 🙂

    The impression I have from Stephan Pomp’s comments are that the testers cannot publish everything although nothing is said about the terms and restrictions so this may not be so bad. Stephan Pomp mentions that “we could not publish whatever we wanted” and refers to this as “gagging” but he probably is thinking along the lines of a “gag order” prohibiting someone from communicating something. I can understand not being able to publish proprietary and/or business trade secrets but actual results (positive or negative) should not be prohibited.

    I hope the testers disclose the terms and conditions of testing in their report and actually now kind of expect such a statement in the report.

    • it is classic for deniers to refuse to participate a test.

      They claims they disagree with the NDA, but what they don’t want is a positive result that they cannot deny.

      He insist on white-box test, which show how incompetent or dishonest he is.

      Anybody can check energy in, and out, providing you have access to the wire and surface out, free to measure what you want outside.

      • Mats Hilmersson

        @AlainCo and others: What do you think about Dr. Pomps last line Why not make the test at a test house (SP, Intertek etc.)?

        • deleo77

          This statement alone will be enough for the skeptics to say that it was not an independent test. People again will just have to come to their own conclusions about the validity of this round of testing.

          • they always moan, question is whether mom&pop will believe their fable.

        • it is a good ife at first look.
          Jed proposed that, with same moaning.

          the problem is that no denier, no journalist, will admit plumbers can do measurement.
          Asking physicist to do calorimetry is really risky, it is a job of chemist for mW, and engineerus for kW. but since it is supposed to be nuclear mom&pomp assume physicists have to do the job…

          Pomp would be the first man to moan that simple plumbers do the job (engineer in fact, like Beaudette)…

          when you do flow calorimetry they moan on the water, when you do IR can they mone on the IR cam…

          sometime they are right, but they are a dead clock. they always moan, it does not help.

          • Freethinker

            😀 I laughed. But I guess you are right. For the already convinced sceptic there will always be something to moan about. Either the calorimetry or the IR, the calibration, the background of who measured, being a plumber or not… 😀

            But still, if it were an entity like SP and PTB, it would convince fence sitters, who I suspect has increased lately. However, like Rossi usually says, it will in the end be the product on the market that will make all people see.

          • Jed have contacted the testers andadvised professional test according to standard…
            I hope they will do all, professional, physicist, and chemist methods.

            My best idea is a gang with professionals (boiler experts), petro-chemist, and stage magician.

            of course no physicist as they could fraud.

          • Freethinker

            😀 rofl

          • Omega Z

            Science is just like the real world.
            Elitists, Upper class, Middle class, Lower class.
            Each level has a tendency to look down on those classes below them.
            Just as those at the bottom tend to frown on the possible intentions of those above them.
            Caveat- There are exceptions. Some see people as people. Nothing more.

      • Omega Z

        “They claims they disagree with the NDA, but what they don’t want is a positive result that they cannot deny.”

        So his point of people involved having problems admitting they may have been wrong applies to himself as well. He has admitted his own bias, tho maybe doesn’t realize this.

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        AlainCo, Sorry for correcting you about some statistics. For other it was the problem that one should always try to to formulate a hypothesis before one starts to compare, else the number of done comparisons can grow so large for amazing things to seams probable. Anyway this fact is also one of the reasons you try not give out movies, data etc, e.g. give an evil opponent too much information to data mine and cherry pick strangeness things that statistically is a minor point dwarfed with the correct majority of data.

        If on the other hand a critic has a good Hypothesis you should try to serve him enough information to prove/disprove his point. Giving out data is also a scary prospects for a company, and not needed because correct documented summary figures is more then enough to prove disprove the point. If in stead data is given freely, that can empower your competitor and all your research effort is given away.

        Pomp seams to indicate that cold fusion is not done properly, if so, why aren’t there a published list describing the scientific issues with all the 200+ labs tests that produced the P&F effect, in stead there is some kind of summary verdict that doesn’t help the cold fusion folks correct their miss-takes, or challenge the conclusion with valid counter arguments, that in itself is not science that’s evil politics hidden with good intentions.

        I do understand and actually support Pomp in his choice to stay away from testing and deliver critique freely, that in itself is a good way to keep a decent discussion of the results, if all is done with appropriate scientific standard.

        • I don’t catch all, especially on statistics.

          the fact is that we have the list of peer-reviewed papers of positive excess heat (153). http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf

          I also simply have 2 P/R paper of Iwamura+Toyota in JJAP…

          but as you see it seems they never read it or ever consider it…

          seems to be useless.

          about the absence of any solid critic, I often cite the page 5 in excess heat where the 4 refuted critics are listed

          http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf#page=35

          I ask for any better critic, and as expected they give nothing, not even the recent CCS of Shanahan, for which I have the rebuttal…

          why they believe in theyr myth having not the leas evidence except wikipedia myth, proven wrong, is fascinating.

          maybe simply trying to convince the deniers is hopeless, and to be honest I give data for the curious, the real skeptical who is uncertain until he have data, and ready to change beliefs facing new data.

          my current position is that debating with skeptics is just like talking with a wall, for the witness to hear the arguments.

  • Curbina

    I find it interesting of course. Seems, to me, that deal breaker for Mr. Pomp was not that they could not publish what they want, but whenever they wanted during the test. This is my conclusion based in that Rossi has said that the final publication decision was in the hands of the testers since the get go.

  • Freethinker

    This is actually funny…

    I am also Swedish (and made the translation), and to be honest, my reptile reaction was when I heard it the first time, as he paused, that he means “No. So much can I say” as in I can say “No” but that is only what I CAN say, likely due to NDA and a promise not to reveal the place. But then again, if you translate, you need to stay true to the word (even though it was a quickly made translation).

  • Bernie777

    The article below cries out for a LENR style Manhattan/Man on Moon project. Whether you believe in climate change and its ramification or not, this kind of energy consumption and energy waste is not sustainable and will cause increasing regional and world conflicts and wars. I am not sure about the rest of the world but in the US our leaders are fiddling while watching the world burn.

    http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/

    • bachcole

      I saw no mention of “LENR” or “cold fusion”.

    • Hector McNuget

      is lenr sciencers the climate deniers and lenr deniers the climate sciencers? cant make the clear understanding, is confusing.

    • Omega Z

      Just to ease your concerns a little Bernie, The Sky isn’t Falling.

      Taught 45 years ago- The U.S. had 500 year supply of Coal Reserves. 20 Years ago, that was revised to 250 years reserve. Today it’s revised to about 100 years reserve.

      What Happened? The Numbers are based on as is, or on our present path. It does not allow for natural & economical variables to name a few.
      As to the Forecast, Supplies are already becoming limited. Prices Rise. Demand increases, Prices rise more. This escalates exponentially, Demand collapses due to economic realities & all their forecasts quickly fall apart. The Path changes. Which is not in their forecast. It changes by it’s own accord.

      People are Notoriously Terrible at Forecasts.
      Fossil energy will continue to become less economical even without the Bozos who are trying to manipulate them. Things presently uneconomical will become cheaper, soon more economical then the present sources.

      The present paradigm is under dire attack from multiple directions. More then a dozen technological advances are at the doorstep. Major changes are coming. Their forecast is already in ruins. They just don’t know it Yet. As I Said- Notoriously Terrible at Forecasts.
      These Changes will happen with or without LENR. Change is unstoppable.

      We here at ECW should be more aware of this then Most everyone else. Different Technologies are brought to our attention daily by the many contributors here at ECW. Things many of us may not have been aware of as Individuals.

      Just 1 Single example: How many different possibilities(Just Recently) have we become aware of on Cheap/economical Hydrogen processes that may soon become a reality. 🙂

      Manhattan projects should shoot farther into the future needs. Following the present situation, it would likely be surpassed before it comes to fruitation.

      Haa, All this without once mentioning Climate Change-OOPs 🙂

      • Ophelia Rump

        So, if you follow the curve of your reports and project them forward, we only have about 25 years left.

        No worry.

      • Bernie777

        The lack of energy, and the struggle to acquire energy has caused many wars, death and destruction, famine, horrible deaths for lack of clean water, and yes, I think we should mitigate the effects of climate change caused by fossil fuels. I am simply suggesting developing and using LENR should be put on a fast track, a super fast track, to lower the cost of energy. When you say “Manhattan projects should shoot farther into the future needs” you are betting the lives of many that something better than LENR will “come to fruitation”. I disagree.

        • Broncobet

          The government already offered $20,000,000 for LENR if no one accepts the money it’s not their fault.

          • Bernie777

            When, where, please explain

          • what is that offer ?

            Poeple like Miley tried to get funding for his project, much less, and they refused.
            They say LENR in DoE IDEAS call for project, but this does not include the real LENR, just the things that nuclear physicist play with (muon catalysed fusion, accelarator lower than expected high energy fusion, and anything not like Flieschmann&pons or Rossi)

            the open mindened of skeptics is a myth.
            lik pomp when facing an oportunity to see lenr, they flee.

            note also that proposing 20 million for a finished working reactor, and no equity is not an honest business. the market is in trillion/year.

            cold fusion does not need public money, it need public admittance.

          • Fortyniner

            He seems to pull his various baseless assertions out of – er – thin air.

          • Broncobet

            No.This proposal was for LENR ONLY!! That’s not open anymore and some should have gotten a grant or I’ll be suspicious.They have a program now that LENR would work for along with other things, an open proposal.

        • Broncobet

          We already have nuclear energy which is safe and will last millions of years.

          • Bernie777

            The cost of current neclear energy plants does not change the economics of energy, LENR does change the economics.

          • Fortyniner

            Safe?? Did you miss Chernobyl and Fukushima, and the poisoning of the Pacific ocean? Or the explosion and release from Carlsbad, and the dozens of other leaking piles of high level waste that no-one has any real ideas for dealing with?

            Millions of years?? Even the Nuclear Energy Agency – the ever optimistic body representing the nuclear industry – estimates 200 years maximum availablity of uranium at current consumption levels (far less if the technology has a revival). http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last/

            Please get your facts straight before making such ill informed statements.

          • Obvious

            Millions dead prematurely from coal emissions, millions dead from car accidents, over 30,000 will die in the US each year from “misadventure”. And what, maybe 30 dead from nuke plants? Yes, there are problems with uranium power, but they are usually not put in proper perspective to other risks most people consider normal.
            Unacceptably dirty U power will go away one day, maybe sooner than later, but the risks are far less than most people have been lead to believe.

          • Fortyniner

            Just because people are killed in other ways doesn’t make nuclear power any safer. The legacy of contamination of the environment with long-lived radionuclides is qualitatively different from other environmental contamination because it will affect the genetics of all species for millennia.

            You really shouldn’t believe the propaganda put out by the nuclear lobby. An estimate of 30 deaths cause by nuclear power is laughable. Even in the short term, deaths from cancer resulting from radioactive contamination will be thousands, and in the longer term there are credible estimates that hundreds of thousands of excess early deaths are to be expected.

            Chernobyl: http://nuclear-news.net/2014/04/28/how-many-deaths-were-caused-by-the-chernobyl-nuclear-catastrophe/

            Fukushima: http://enenews.com/experts-fukushima-victims-to-include-up-to-300000-deaths-over-100000-still-births-and-over-100000-children-with-genetic-deformations

          • GreenWin

            Nuke supporters try to avoid discussing deaths resulting from contamination. Which takes at least a generation to ascertain. With friends of the environment like James (Nukem) Hanson – who needs enemies??

          • Obvious

            Smoking, auto pollution, lead now banned in gasoline, pesticides, and pulp and paper solvents have contributed to cancer rates far, far in excess of radiation. The list goes on. Add barbecue to the list even.

          • the health organisation try to convince media of the inconvenient facst that most cancer are caused
            – 49% : bad behaviors like smoking, alcoohol, eating much, lack of sport, sun exposure. thanks to e-cigaterre
            -49% : pure bad luck (bad genetic, sporadic)
            – ~1% air pollution (mostly on smokers), mostly wood for cooking/heating, little old cars in emerging countries and oldest cars in rich countries. Killing wook stove, and old cars would do the job.
            – ~1% chemical, professional, environmental exposure (easily screened when identified)

            it is not individual, but statistic attribution from epidemiology …
            my numbers are give in france, I imagine it is Western… for poor countries, wood stove, smoking, food, are the worst problem… sometime alcohol.

            there was real problem of toxicchemical identified in the 70s, but it was treated, and today we are more overreacting than rational…

            problem is behaviors, mostly smoking, drinking, lack of sport…
            rest is anecdotical.

            did you know asbestos cancer are in fact touching only smokers.

            tobacco is really a sh….

          • Fortyniner

            Just because people get cancer from other causes doesn’t make nuclear power any safer. The fact is that no-one knows what proportion of the huge cancer death toll can be laid at the door of the nuclear industry, but as leakage from Fukushima kills the Pacific Ocean, and hot particles fall on the US, it is going to increase beyond deniabilility very soon.

            The sensible thing to do would seem to be to eliminate all causes of cancer as far as this is possible, starting with one of the most obvious, although of course there is no way to undo the slow motion car crash already under way in Japan.

          • no, we know the toll is low.

            From Hiroshima we know that even the worst irradiation , hundred time what is making us panic today , is just like smoking.

            http://www.monbiot.com/2011/04/04/evidence-meltdown/

            (nb: Monbiot is a well know environmentalist who clearly state he have been fooled, and tha evidence are massively clear)

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/05/anti-nuclear-lobby-misled-world

            even with stupid assumption (like LLNT) fukushima is not an horror…

            http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/03/high-estimate-of-100-excess-cancer.html

            for those who want to know what was the thing that killed million of USSR citizen : the end of socialized health in USSR, and the crony capitalism that was installed after.

          • Omega Z

            We have no Official number of deaths from the nuclear energy that’s reliable as they refuse to admit the data.

            Case in point, The Executive who took charge at Fukushima immediately afterwards & whom refused to leave until after they gained control Died of thyroid cancer. The Official statement was this had absolutely “NOTHING” to do with his exposure at Fukushima. Hello, Only sheep who know nothing about radiation would believe this.
            This man is 1 of the unsung hero’s. Without a few people like him Fukushima would have been far worse.

            Reported a while back, The Last of the Russians who volunteered to work on the Chernobyl containment has died. How many were there. A couple thousand. Officially, They are not considered causalities of nuclear energy. Had this involved any other industry, they would be included. Even a truck driver who died in an accident hauling a load of coal on the highway.

            The incident at Fukushima has a half life of 750 Million years. Sometime around 4 Billion years, It may once again be inhabitable for humans. No one even discusses such a timeline for Chernobyl. Shhh.

            Storage is a forever nightmare. As yet, unknown numbers of people will die from this. Casks supposedly designed for storage for hundreds & even a 1000 years after just 20 or 30 years are already starting to fail.
            Many leaks we are already aware of & untold numbers likely hidden from the public. The Politicians have just kicked this can down the road for future generations to deal with.

            As Yet, Unknown numbers of people around the world will die from these accidents in the future from higher radiation levels spread the world over. Some agencies have already done preliminary numbers of ?#?-per 100K far into the future & that’s just in the U.S. More will die of other direct causes, but will suffer health issues related to this increased radiation. None of these people will be included either for their suffering or direct cause of death. The Nuclear Proponents will not allow it.

            Imagine a couple melt downs in a couple of the Worlds breadbaskets. Mass starvation. Billions Die. Officially, Not from Nuclear Energy. they died of starvation. Note: This is all Political B.S.

            To be sure. LENR comes to market, Clean, Safe, Cheap, Efficient, People will die from it. People who build them, The Ores mined, Iron, Nickel, Etc, Coal, Gas, & Oil for building the devices.

          • the time for cancer to develop is long and the death of the boss, like the tumors (most benign) detected in kids have nothing to do with radioation exposure at fukushima.

            if the dose was so huge, he would have died from radiation disease, immune depression, burns…

            today 90% of the death is the tsunamy, 10% is the evacuation (killed more than 2000 people without serious reason)

            today the panic for minor contamination is simply due to hardenes standards that are absurds, especially compared to the radiation dose tha a simple river can dump in the see every minutes…

            we are brainwashed, and it is as pathetic as LENR denial.

            i don’t defend fission because it is useful today, it have to die, but I hate innocent technology to be accused of all sins…

            today the leask of fukushima are a part of the total dose of radiation produced as banana…

            it is less than on coal factory production or radiation in the athmosphere (chinese coal is the worst radiation emitter on earth, before chernobyl, even the worst day)

            the quantity of absurdity said on Fukushima is facinating, and given how gullible are the media, how powerfull are the real lobbies (not the corsp, but the NGO and politicians) you can imagine that they have the poser to manipulate your beliefs on any scientific subject…

            the only good point compared to cold fusion, is tha the scientific community in publications is not totally hiding the evidences.

            we know that the main effect of chernobyl, beside few death among thousands of thyroid cancer caused by stupid lack of control of milk, and few dozen of heavyly irradiated firemen who died (10% of those who endured deadly dose – I’m surprised 90% survived, and have a fair health ), the worst consequence of tchernobyl is stress diseads, depression, suicide, family violence.

            today people living inside the forbidden zone have better health than the refugees.

            http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/02/evacuation-deaths-in-japan-in-2011-were.html

            http://djysrv.blogspot.fr/2012/04/argh-debunking-some-nuclear-nonsense.html

            http://atomicinsights.com/2012/08/radiation-protection-profession-hiding-health-benefits-of-low-level-radiation.html

            those data seems strange, but since I follow tha domain since decade, they are in line with many scientific forc since long…

            today what we do is overprecaution, and the more we do it the more we develop an awfull fear that kills people really.

            simply people are not aware of the real quantity of radiation and radioactive product we eat every day, and that it is not more different than from oxygen, chemicals , sunlight, food, heat, who all destroy our DNA, activate Heat Shock Protein who know their job, as far as the dose is not too much, explaining the observed hormesis…

            anyway defending Fission is worthless, but I really warn you that this is a huge example of how the population, even educated people like uss, even peopls who dare to challenge the consensus , who doubt on media, on pubic powers, can be manipulated, disinformed, frightened, despite massive a nd clear opposite evidence that are available.

            Just see people in ramsar, whose health is normal, if not better on some domain…

            not panicking would have saved 2000 people, and woul save thousands more of stress syndrome in next decades.

          • Fortyniner

            The trouble with that idea is that many of the contaminants being released, such as radioactive iodine, caesium, strontium etc. do not disperse. Quite the reverse in fact – minerals other than sodium are actually quite scarce in seawater, and are avidly taken up by living organisms, beginning with pelagic algae and becoming more concentrated as the radionuclides move upward through the food chain.

            The results are becoming rather too obvious to ignore – mass die-offs of invertebrates and fish, cancers and non-healing lesions in fish and marine mammals, failure of birds to breed. Effects on humans from contaminated sea food and direct transfer of airborne ‘hot particles’ will simply take a little longer to show up.

            http://radiationrain.com/

            http://www.globalresearch.ca/28-signs-that-the-west-coast-is-being-absolutely-fried-with-nuclear-radiation-from-fukushima/5355280

          • deleo77

            Sounds about right. I wish they would just release the reactor performance results, and do the isotope analysis in a second report. But it looks like they will combine it all into one.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    The article below cries out for a LENR style Manhattan/Man on Moon project. Whether you believe in climate change and its ramification or not, this kind of energy consumption and energy waste is not sustainable and will cause increasing regional and world conflicts and wars. I am not sure about the rest of the world but in the US our leaders are fiddling while watching the world burn.

    http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/

    • bachcole

      I saw no mention of “LENR” or “cold fusion”.

    • Hector McNuget

      is lenr sciencers the climate deniers and lenr deniers the climate sciencers? cant make the clear understanding, is confusing.

      • Broncobet

        It is a matrix two on a side.Climate deny,climate yes.LENR yes LENR no.

    • Omega Z

      Just to ease your concerns a little Bernie, The Sky isn’t Falling.

      Taught 45 years ago- The U.S. had 500 year supply of Coal Reserves. 20 Years ago, that was revised to 250 years reserve. Today it’s revised to about 100 years reserve.

      What Happened? The Numbers are based on as is, or on our present path. It does not allow for natural & economical variables to name a few.
      As to the Forecast, Supplies are already becoming limited. Prices Rise. Demand increases, Prices rise more. This escalates exponentially, Demand collapses due to economic realities & all their forecasts quickly fall apart. The Path changes. Which is not in their forecast. It changes by it’s own accord.

      People are Notoriously Terrible at Forecasts.
      Fossil energy will continue to become less economical even without the Bozos who are trying to manipulate them. Things presently uneconomical will become cheaper, soon more economical then the present sources.

      The present paradigm is under dire attack from multiple directions. More then a dozen technological advances are at the doorstep. Major changes are coming. Their forecast is already in ruins. They just don’t know it Yet. As I Said- Notoriously Terrible at Forecasts.
      These Changes will happen with or without LENR. Change is unstoppable.

      We here at ECW should be more aware of this then Most everyone else. Different Technologies are brought to our attention daily by the many contributors here at ECW. Things many of us may not have been aware of as Individuals.

      Just 1 Single example: How many different possibilities(Just Recently) have we become aware of on Cheap/economical Hydrogen processes that may soon become a reality. 🙂

      Manhattan projects should shoot farther into the future needs. Following the present situation, it would likely be surpassed before it comes to fruitation.

      Haa, All this without once mentioning Climate Change-OOPs 🙂

      • Ophelia Rump

        So, if you follow the curve of your reports and project them forward, we only have about 25 years left.

        No worry.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        The lack of energy, and the struggle to acquire energy has caused many wars, death and destruction, famine, horrible deaths for lack of clean water, and yes, I think we should mitigate the effects of climate change caused by fossil fuels. I am simply suggesting developing and using LENR should be put on a fast track, a super fast track, to lower the cost of energy. When you say “Manhattan projects should shoot farther into the future needs” you are betting the lives of many that something better than LENR will “come to fruitation”. I disagree.

        • Broncobet

          The government already offered $20,000,000 for LENR if no one accepts the money it’s not their fault.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            When, where, please explain

          • Broncobet

            AlainCo knew of it and had the links,I’m terrible at putting up links.Google Arpa-e and then go to the open calls for proposals,each one pays $500,000 before they had ones that had to be LENR now they have ones that can be LENR,this is one reason I believe that the effect might be real my government wants to invest in it.Arpa-e is for transformational disruptive change with not great odds at success,it’s perfect for LENR,which is why if nobody is asking for it I suspect them of fraud.Maybe they don’t want or need money and they have good working devises but I doubt it.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Or maybe there are too many strings attached?

          • Broncobet

            The “strings” aren’t too bad, most of the work must be done in the USA,did you look it up in Arpa-e? You have to fill out the forms correctly something that I’m bad at.I’ll bet there are professional form filler outers that would do it for a fee.So yes there are strings but those are easy to understand and you or I could do it.

          • Broncobet

            Google”arpa-e funding opportunity exchange”,it’s the first one on the list for “open ideas”.

          • Broncobet

            All you have to do is write a proposal have it accepted and they give you$500,000.Typically you would say that you work for a company in the business of LENR and you want to team up with a national lab to construct an improved design of a devise for heating water with reduced electrical inputs.

          • bachcole

            Yeah, I’m waiting to hear this one.

          • Broncobet

            Ask AlainCo for the link.

          • Broncobet

            Why else would I believe all this hypothetical technology ? I have to have some evidence.A)IH put up 10 mil B)Arpa-e has put up more than20 mill(the previous program was only Arpa-e this one is open funding so LENR or other speculative tech.

          • what is that offer ?

            Poeple like Miley tried to get funding for his project, much less, and they refused.
            They say LENR in DoE IDEAS call for project, but this does not include the real LENR, just the things that nuclear physicist play with (muon catalysed fusion, accelarator lower than expected high energy fusion, and anything not like Flieschmann&pons or Rossi)

            the open mindened of skeptics is a myth.
            lik pomp when facing an oportunity to see lenr, they flee.

            note also that proposing 20 million for a finished working reactor, and no equity is not an honest business. the market is in trillion/year.

            cold fusion does not need public money, it need public admittance.

          • He seems to pull his various baseless assertions out of – er – thin air.

          • bachcole

            Nice! (Not the town, the English adjective.)

          • Broncobet

            No.This proposal was for LENR ONLY!! That’s not open anymore and some should have gotten a grant or I’ll be suspicious.They have a program now that LENR would work for along with other things, an open proposal.

        • Broncobet

          We already have nuclear energy which is safe and will last millions of years.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            The cost of current neclear energy plants does not change the economics of energy, LENR does change the economics.

          • Broncobet

            You mean LENR if it exists as you imagine it and nuclear power without the vast improvements coming in the future.

          • Safe?? Did you miss Chernobyl and Fukushima, and the poisoning of the Pacific ocean? Or the explosion and release from Carlsbad, and the dozens of other leaking piles of high level waste that no-one has any real ideas for dealing with?

            Millions of years?? Even the Nuclear Energy Agency – the ever optimistic body representing the nuclear industry – estimates 200 years maximum availablity of uranium at current consumption levels (far less if the technology has a revival). http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last/

            Please get your facts straight before making such ill informed statements.

          • Obvious

            Millions dead prematurely from coal emissions, millions dead from car accidents, over 30,000 will die in the US each year from “misadventure”. And what, maybe 30 dead from nuke plants? Yes, there are problems with uranium power, but they are usually not put in proper perspective to other risks most people consider normal.
            Unacceptably dirty U power will go away one day, maybe sooner than later, but the risks are far less than most people have been lead to believe.

          • bachcole

            Obvious, be prepared for a storm of righteous indignation. (:->)

          • Obvious

            Well, let’s just diffuse that right now.
            I am extremely opposed to stockpiling nuke waste to be dealt with later.
            I am extremely opposed to building anything dangerous in a potential fault zone, or tsunami zone, etc. I also am opposed to putting housing in historic flood zones.
            Historic mining of almost everything had unacceptable, in today’s perspective, risks for the workers. Uranium, lead, cobalt, nickel sulphides, arsenic, asbestos, you name it and workers were exposed to hazardous things and often paid with their lives, later if not sooner.
            Despite some stupidities, overall the nuke industry has a strong safety record compared to most industries. When corners we’re cut, then bad things happened. People fear the unseen dangers more than obvious dangers, so radiation gets a fearful response often out of proportion with the comparative risks. That doesn’t imply safeness of nuclear activities, but nuclear work can be safe with proper safeguards. That should include a proper management plan for waste and accidents. Plans in proper proportion to the dangers, and possibly an order of magnitude of margin of safety and planning beyond what might be needed, so the general public doesn’t irrationally fear the nuclear industry. Intentional cutting corners on safety of the public should be a crinme

          • Just because people are killed in other ways doesn’t make nuclear power any safer. The legacy of contamination of the environment with long-lived radionuclides is qualitatively different from other environmental contamination because it will affect the genetics of all species for millennia.

            You really shouldn’t believe the propaganda put out by the nuclear lobby. An estimate of 30 deaths caused by nuclear power is utterly laughable – more than that (by a factor of 20) are killed or die of cancer every year just mining uranium in the US (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pgms/worknotify/uranium.html). Even in the short term, deaths from cancer resulting from radioactive contamination will be in the thousands, and in the longer term there are credible estimates that tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of birth defects and excess early deaths are now inevitable.

            Chernobyl: http://nuclear-news.net/2014/04/28/how-many-deaths-were-caused-by-the-chernobyl-nuclear-catastrophe/

            Fukushima: http://enenews.com/experts-fukushima-victims-to-include-up-to-300000-deaths-over-100000-still-births-and-over-100000-children-with-genetic-deformations

          • GreenWin

            Nuke supporters try to avoid discussing deaths resulting from contamination. Which takes at least a generation to ascertain. With friends of the environment like James (Nukem) Hanson – who needs enemies??

          • Obvious

            I meant directly killed. (Not by bombs)
            Smoking, auto pollution, lead now banned in gasoline, pesticides, and pulp and paper solvents have contributed to cancer rates far, far in excess of radiation. The list goes on. Add barbecue to the list even.

          • the health organisation try to convince media of the inconvenient facst that most cancer are caused
            – 49% : bad behaviors like smoking, alcoohol, eating much, lack of sport, sun exposure. thanks to e-cigaterre
            -49% : pure bad luck (bad genetic, sporadic)
            – ~1% air pollution (mostly on smokers), mostly wood for cooking/heating, little old cars in emerging countries and oldest cars in rich countries. Killing wook stove, and old cars would do the job.
            – ~1% chemical, professional, environmental exposure (easily screened when identified)

            it is not individual, but statistic attribution from epidemiology …
            my numbers are give in france, I imagine it is Western… for poor countries, wood stove, smoking, food, are the worst problem… sometime alcohol.

            there was real problem of toxicchemical identified in the 70s, but it was treated, and today we are more overreacting than rational…

            problem is behaviors, mostly smoking, drinking, lack of sport…
            rest is anecdotical.

            did you know asbestos cancer are in fact touching only smokers.

            tobacco is really a sh….

          • Just because people get cancer from other causes doesn’t make nuclear power any safer. The fact is that no-one knows what proportion of the huge cancer death toll can be laid at the door of the nuclear industry, but as leakage from Fukushima kills the Pacific Ocean, and hot particles fall on the US, Canada and Alaska, the damage is going to increase beyond deniabilility very soon.

            The sensible thing to do would seem to be to eliminate all causes of cancer as far as this is possible, starting with one of the most obvious, although of course there is no way to undo the slow motion car crash already under way in Japan.

          • no, we know the toll is low.

            From Hiroshima we know that even the worst irradiation , hundred time what is making us panic today , is just like smoking.

            http://www.monbiot.com/2011/04/04/evidence-meltdown/

            (nb: Monbiot is a well know environmentalist who clearly state he have been fooled, and tha evidence are massively clear)

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/05/anti-nuclear-lobby-misled-world

            even with stupid assumption (like LLNT) fukushima is not an horror…

            http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/03/high-estimate-of-100-excess-cancer.html

            for those who want to know what was the thing that killed million of USSR citizen : the end of socialized health in USSR, and the crony capitalism that was installed after.

          • bachcole

            Nice (not the city, but the compliment).

            I find it interesting that, let’s say I have a preliminary diagnosis of cancer, and the doctor does a biopsy and discovers that it is not cancer, and he says to me, “Mr. Bird, you don’t have cancer!”. Most people would be relieved. I would be relieved. But when you tell the hysterians that they don’t have cancer, or that Fukushima isn’t as bad as they have heard, they don’t feel relief; they hug their hysteria/anxiety even stronger. I guess they don’t want to stop their kum ba ya dancing and their sense that they have special knowledge.

          • Broncobet

            Hear hear !!

          • Broncobet

            Alain,well done.

          • bachcole

            “Fukushima kills the Pacific Ocean”, just that phrase alone tells me that someone is enjoying their hysteria. The radioactivity came from some place. If it is disperse over a large enough area, the intensity of the radioactivity will be as it was before the uranium was mined.

          • The trouble with that idea is that many of the contaminants being released, such as radioactive iodine, caesium, strontium etc. do not disperse. Quite the reverse in fact – minerals other than sodium are actually quite scarce in seawater, and are avidly taken up by living organisms, beginning with pelagic algae and becoming more concentrated as the radionuclides move upward through the food chain.

            The results are becoming rather too obvious to ignore – mass die-offs of invertebrates and fish, cancers and non-healing lesions in fish and marine mammals, failure of seabirds to breed. Effects on humans from contaminated sea food and direct transfer of airborne ‘hot particles’ will simply take a little longer to show up.

            http://radiationrain.com/

            http://www.globalresearch.ca/28-signs-that-the-west-coast-is-being-absolutely-fried-with-nuclear-radiation-from-fukushima/5355280

            http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/its-huge-and-happening-now-lot-of.html#.U5Vtu1MS_3o

          • bachcole

            I am not buying it. There is no before and after studies. There are die-offs all the time. Dolphins and whales have been beaching themselves for decades, probably the result of conventional pollution.

          • Broncobet

            Of course.

          • Broncobet

            Especially lead, what a crime.

          • Broncobet

            You are the deluded one stating falsehoods,if Uranium were running low we could burn the spent nuclear fuel,as of today all of commercial nuclear waste fits on a footbaal field

          • Omega Z

            We have no Official number of deaths from the nuclear energy that’s reliable as they refuse to admit the data.

            Case in point, The Executive who took charge at Fukushima immediately afterwards & whom refused to leave until after they gained control Died of thyroid cancer. The Official statement was this had absolutely “NOTHING” to do with his exposure at Fukushima. Hello, Only sheep who know nothing about radiation would believe this.
            This man is 1 of the unsung hero’s. Without a few people like him Fukushima would have been far worse.

            Reported a while back, The Last of the Russians who volunteered to work on the Chernobyl containment has died. How many were there. A couple thousand. Officially, They are not considered causalities of nuclear energy. Had this involved any other industry, they would be included. Even a truck driver who died in an accident hauling a load of coal on the highway.

            The incident at Fukushima has a half life of 750 Million years. Sometime around 4 Billion years, It may once again be inhabitable for humans. No one even discusses such a timeline for Chernobyl. Shhh.

            Storage is a forever nightmare. As yet, unknown numbers of people will die from this. Casks supposedly designed for storage for hundreds & even a 1000 years after just 20 or 30 years are already starting to fail.
            Many leaks we are already aware of & untold numbers likely hidden from the public. The Politicians have just kicked this can down the road for future generations to deal with.

            As Yet, Unknown numbers of people around the world will die from these accidents in the future from higher radiation levels spread the world over. Some agencies have already done preliminary numbers of ?#?-per 100K far into the future & that’s just in the U.S. More will die of other direct causes, but will suffer health issues related to this increased radiation. None of these people will be included either for their suffering or direct cause of death. The Nuclear Proponents will not allow it.

            Imagine a couple melt downs in a couple of the Worlds breadbaskets. Mass starvation. Billions Die. Officially, Not from Nuclear Energy. they died of starvation. Note: This is all Political B.S.

            To be sure. LENR comes to market, Clean, Safe, Cheap, Efficient, People will die from it. People who build them, The Ores mined, Iron, Nickel, Etc, Coal, Gas, & Oil for building the devices.

          • the time for cancer to develop is long and the death of the boss, like the tumors (most benign) detected in kids have nothing to do with radioation exposure at fukushima.

            if the dose was so huge, he would have died from radiation disease, immune depression, burns…

            today 90% of the death is the tsunamy, 10% is the evacuation (killed more than 2000 people without serious reason)

            today the panic for minor contamination is simply due to hardenes standards that are absurds, especially compared to the radiation dose tha a simple river can dump in the see every minutes…

            we are brainwashed, and it is as pathetic as LENR denial.

            i don’t defend fission because it is useful today, it have to die, but I hate innocent technology to be accused of all sins…

            today the leask of fukushima are a part of the total dose of radiation produced as banana…

            it is less than on coal factory production or radiation in the athmosphere (chinese coal is the worst radiation emitter on earth, before chernobyl, even the worst day)

            the quantity of absurdity said on Fukushima is facinating, and given how gullible are the media, how powerfull are the real lobbies (not the corsp, but the NGO and politicians) you can imagine that they have the poser to manipulate your beliefs on any scientific subject…

            the only good point compared to cold fusion, is tha the scientific community in publications is not totally hiding the evidences.

            we know that the main effect of chernobyl, beside few death among thousands of thyroid cancer caused by stupid lack of control of milk, and few dozen of heavyly irradiated firemen who died (10% of those who endured deadly dose – I’m surprised 90% survived, and have a fair health ), the worst consequence of tchernobyl is stress diseads, depression, suicide, family violence.

            today people living inside the forbidden zone have better health than the refugees.

            http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/02/evacuation-deaths-in-japan-in-2011-were.html

            http://djysrv.blogspot.fr/2012/04/argh-debunking-some-nuclear-nonsense.html

            http://atomicinsights.com/2012/08/radiation-protection-profession-hiding-health-benefits-of-low-level-radiation.html

            those data seems strange, but since I follow tha domain since decade, they are in line with many scientific forc since long…

            today what we do is overprecaution, and the more we do it the more we develop an awfull fear that kills people really.

            simply people are not aware of the real quantity of radiation and radioactive product we eat every day, and that it is not more different than from oxygen, chemicals , sunlight, food, heat, who all destroy our DNA, activate Heat Shock Protein who know their job, as far as the dose is not too much, explaining the observed hormesis…

            anyway defending Fission is worthless, but I really warn you that this is a huge example of how the population, even educated people like uss, even peopls who dare to challenge the consensus , who doubt on media, on pubic powers, can be manipulated, disinformed, frightened, despite massive a nd clear opposite evidence that are available.

            Just see people in ramsar, whose health is normal, if not better on some domain…

            not panicking would have saved 2000 people, and woul save thousands more of stress syndrome in next decades.

          • bachcole

            But if people hug their collective anxiety and get emotional goodies by doing so, it will be very difficult if not impossible to use facts and data to get them to drop their holding of hands while dancing in a circle singing kum ba ya. It is the same with so many things on left, like chemtrails. It is an embarrassment to those who see real conspiracies, like King Pharma.

          • Broncobet

            Not one person died of radiation at Fukashima,the H2 explosion in the reactor killed two workers.15,000 died from the water. Can you tell the difference between two and 15,000?Nuclear power saves millions of lives from the pollution of coal, and better and safer reactors are on the way.If LENR works ,and it might, it is certaintly not reliable or continuos.

          • Broncobet

            In the US not one person has been harmed by nuclear power if we did as you suggest we’d be poisoned by coal emmissions.

  • BroKeeper

    Pomp’s About Me: …..” I’m also an inveterate atheist and member of the Humanist……” explains it all to me. Unlike Rossi’s humility and recognition where truth comes from, Pomp blocks it out with what he alone perceives. Reminds me of an ancient ruler who once asked “What is truth” while staring right at it just before killing it. My proposal is to just ignore him and let Pomp’s circumstances.

    • bachcole

      The skeptopath’s attitude is “Nothing is true unless it has been proven.” Why one would go to all of the trouble of discovering if something is true if it isn’t true (because it hasn’t been proven yet), is a mystery to me.

      • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

        It looks like some people are overconfident that being skeptic is what causes science to develop. The truth is that you mix optimism by skepticism. It is true that for a lone researcher one have to fix the state of mind alternatively, and make sure to keep a balance. If you find people lack any of these sides of the coin, you can add a -path to their credentials.

        • bachcole

          I couldn’t agree more. And maintaining balance requires effort a lot of the time. It seemed like I sweated psych blood for 19 months trying to decide whether Rossi was for real, and then the 2013 Levi et. al. report came out, and I was able to relax. (:->)

  • Obvious

    Perhaps Mr. Pomp was wise enough to realize that if he found out the secret ingredient, in his excitement of seeing a real working LENR device he might not be able to keep it secret anymore… so he censors himself by abstaining from testing… the safest bet for himself and everyone else.

  • Obvious

    Here’s a wild thought: How about putting a beryllium window on the E-Cat, and letting the gammas shine out? Then the explain-away-ers would have to figure out how to explain away how a bit of nickel powder, a catalyst of some sort, a squirt of hydrogen, and a resistance heater makes a gamma source. Secrecy can cover the actual gamma spectrum emitted, just report the raw power of the gammas, in counts per second per cm2.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      This would also be a good idea with regard to possible EUV spectra of the Mills-type. But I doubt that the glass would stand the heat for a longer period. Defkalion reported some time ago that a glass window in one of their devices had been destroyed quickly after the start of the reaction.

      • Obvious

        It wouldn’t be a glass, but beryllium metal. Importantly Be metal is extremely heat conductive and distortion resistant, whereas glass is hard to cool effectively without distortion, and is fairly opaque to x-rays and gammas anyways. Be metal melts at around 1270°C. Most off-the-shelf Be windows are only good until about to 450°, but they can built to nearly the melting point of Be with increasing loss of X-ray transmissivity (usually the window seals will fail before the metal). The older, lower temperature E-cat designs would be perfect for this. I bet IH already has something of this sort set up for testing purposes.

    • Broncobet

      There are no gamma rays as AR has stated, now if it turns out there are I would be very impressed but it is a very good idea and the government would fund the test(see below),but as I have stated AR says it isn’t nuclear.

      • Obvious

        No gamma rays *exit the device*, Rossi has said. The gammas *inside* the device heat the water (indirectly, by heating the housing, I think). I was simply suggesting letting some out, for experimental purposes only.

  • Obvious

    Here’s a wild thought: How about putting a beryllium window on the E-Cat, and letting the gammas shine out? Then the explain-away-ers would have to figure out how to explain away how a bit of nickel powder, a catalyst of some sort, a squirt of hydrogen, and a resistance heater makes a gamma source. Secrecy can cover the actual gamma spectrum emitted, just report the raw power of the gammas, in counts per second per cm2. A custom alloy filter over the Be window could block some gamma frequencies also, so that the signature is nearly impossible to identify if specific energies are diagnostic of the reaction trade secrets.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      This would also be a good idea with regard to possible EUV spectra of the Mills-type. But I doubt that the glass would stand the heat for a longer period. Defkalion reported some time ago that a glass window in one of their devices had been destroyed quickly after the start of the reaction.

      • Obvious

        It wouldn’t be a glass, but beryllium metal. Importantly Be metal is extremely heat conductive and distortion resistant, whereas glass is hard to cool effectively without distortion, and is fairly opaque to x-rays and gammas anyways. Be metal melts at around 1270°C. Most off-the-shelf Be windows are only good until about to 450°, but they can built to nearly the melting point of Be with increasing loss of X-ray transmissivity (usually the window seals will fail before the metal). The older, lower temperature E-cat designs would be perfect for this. I bet IH already has something of this sort set up for testing purposes.

        • Broncobet

          Arpa-e has grants of $500,000 each for exactly this sort of thing, IH would gain credibility as well as the 1/2 mil if they applied for this.Just receiving the grant with no work done would also gain another 10-20 mil from eager investors at rates very favorable to IH.That they don’t apply for free money makes people suspect them of fraud.It is possible they have applied or that they don’t need no stinking grant,but this is your government showing it’s eager to do it’s part in transformational energy research.

    • Broncobet

      There are no gamma rays as AR has stated, now if it turns out there are I would be very impressed but it is a very good idea and the government would fund the test(see below),but as I have stated AR says it isn’t nuclear.

      • Obvious

        No gamma rays *exit the device*, Rossi has said. The gammas *inside* the device heat the water (indirectly, by heating the housing, I think). I was simply suggesting letting some out, for experimental purposes only.

        • Broncobet

          Obvious, that is a really good idea, are you sure AR said that? I’m pretty sure there are no gamma rays inside the device. If there are that would be evidence of cold fusion and a scientific advancement.That is very unlikely. When in Florida AR told the authorities that his devise was completely safe with no radiation. The Ecat could work without radiation by some unknown principle.I was and am somewhat skeptical but I find evidence of the possibilities.Mitsubishi has eight researchers working in this field.There is zero chance that this effort is fraudulent,odd that a car company sees no current energy producing value in it,rather they use it for the transmutation of actinides to clean nuclear waste.The department of energy set aside 20 million for LENR research,there’s McKube’s work at SRI,so there is some chance that there is something interesting going on.As bachcole said,it could get to market in 2030.The whole thing could be a fraud,or a combination of real exciting new energy applications,with just sections or areas of fraud,and of course the whole world could change in this month,because AR was right all along and the price of coal will drop.

          • Obvious

            Q: 4. Are x-rays present in the Hot Cat? A: 4. yes – JoNP Sept 13, 2012

            Q: 5. Are gamma rays present in the Hot Cat? A: 5. yes – JoNP Sept 13, 2012

            Q: 6. If so, are they responsible for MOST of the heat? A: 6. yes – JoNP Sept 13, 2012

            Rossi also says: ” The gamma rays do not exit from the reactors, as all the measurements made during hundreds of tests have given evidence for. The photons are turned into heat, therefore there are not long term effects, as well as there are not short term and middle term effects.” – JoNP March 13, 2013

            and…”no, we have never detected neutrons outside the reactor”
            – JoNP July 6, 2012

            and…”To add radioactive material to the charge would annichilate all the certifications on the spot and would make unsellable all our production. Not really a good idea, Sir!” – JoNP July 9, 2013

          • Broncobet

            I’ll bet he’s lying.

          • Obvious

            Lying about what part? X-rays are easy to make with “non-nuclear” processes. Just bring a fast electron to a screeching halt.

          • Broncobet

            Everything

  • barty
    • Andreas Moraitis
    • Daniel Maris

      That’s rather interesting – using molten metal…an alternative to nanopowders I guess. Intriguing.

    • Gerard McEk

      That is quite interesting indeed. They seem to be quite confident. I hope to see a new LENR startup soon that shows some proof of their claims.

      • bachcole

        Don’t try to beat me up with a label that you put on me. I seem to be a libertarian, but I am not stupid. I believe in public education; too bad we don’t have it. A health renegade could not teach a health class in the public schools without being a hypocrite or unemployed. I think that education should be compulsory. I believe in vouchers; it gives the public schools good competition. I believe in home schooling for those who are able to do it properly. My boy did it for 3 years; he is now a powerhouse of knowledge and mathematics, but his language arts skill took a hit, especially his report writing. He is back in brick and mortar school and writing reports.

  • barty
  • Gerard McEk

    I agree with your analysis Frank: It is likely that the ‘fuel'(Nickel & gasses) are thoroughly analysed to find a good explanation for the excess heat production and that the report may be delayed due to that. I do not buy Rossi’s anxiety that nothing at all is found and he would be nervous about that. I’ll be patient now Andrea, now I know things are investigated thoroughly and I am very much interested in the results of the Swedish measurements and analysis of that!

    • Guru

      I agree. And some absolutely heretic possibility: Remember XRFS (X-Ray Fluorescent Spectrometry) report from Defkalion presented at NIweek ? They had two times Ni AFTER run of reactor. All was in percentage, not one element was in grams or pico grams. So my heretic hypothesis is: Maybe not only energy is created in some LENR reactors, maybe also mass is created. I underline word created, i.e. not only transmuted.

      • Ophelia Rump

        It is an undefined reaction.
        Expect the unexpected!

      • Obvious

        XRF results are calibrated to dry mass of each element per total concentration. If you test something basically all nickel, then the results will be large percentages. The XRF cannot measure the mass of ingredients. Just relative content proportions. XRF is also generally bad at detecting light elements (low Z elements, like lithium, boron, etc., depending on the equipment and X-ray output power levels), so these often are missed or lumped together as total light elements, and frequently left out of the results.

      • Broncobet

        Mass or energy can not be created or destroyed, only transmuted. Common usage I .like everyone says “energy created”,but technically what we look for is “exergy” useful energy.

        • Guru

          With Standard Model a LENR is impossible. So maybe more old dogmas (laws) may be threated.

          Planet Earth is reactor which is generating energy and is generating also mass.

          • “With Standard Model a LENR is impossible.”
            Like Ed Storms, I disagree
            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEexplaining.pdf

            LENR is probably just a collective effect inside metal, based on classic quantum physics as the one that we don’t master enough to understand HTSC.

          • Broncobet

            Yes the earth has a reactor that keeps the core hot it is fission with Uranium and Thorium, and the Earth gains mass because asteroids and comets hit it every day.

          • Omega Z

            You miss the energy from the Sun being converted to matter.

      • Gerard McEk

        What do you mean by ‘two times Ni Guru’: twice the quantity of Ni they had before the run’?

        • Guru

          Exactly. This was first thing which I noticed in this report.
          Because folks here at forums for years rants and cry “Nickel will go up, Nickel will spent, How percentage of nickel mining will go into spent fuel” etc. So Defkalion uncover: In their reactor Nickel is produced.

          • Obvious

            With the same XRF Defkalion used, I could generate as much nickel variability by shaking the sample to stratify the grains, or with poorly homogenized material, simply by rotating the sample 90 degrees between tests.

          • with they recent behavior, I’m afraid we cannot consider their result…
            Until they give credible explanation to their behavior, and solid evidence, we’d better ignore them.

          • Obvious

            I don’t know about ignore them. It is hard to gauge how much they actually know vs what they can do with what knowledge they might have.

            But without quality control info the two XRF sample examples cannot be relied on alone for any very specific elemental concentrations of the powder, other than that their powder is mostly elements with a Z less than 13, and not mostly nickel. Which in itself is a useful piece of the puzzle.

          • My question is whether they manufactured fake XRF results, as they did with gamberale demo, of if they really work on something that they could not show, and still cannot show, to Gamberale.

            a failure is a failure, but if you cannot correct it it is a tragedy.

          • Obvious

            I doubt the XRF results were faked. The spectra is there to see. Whether the XRF results are meaningful is another story. I could probably mess around and superimpose the spectra on a similar result I have or could make to see if the main peaks make sense, but I doubt it would be very meaningful either. Some carbon or plain baking flour sprinkled on an older Canadian quarter with a dash of sulphur for my roses might give a similar result anyways. Isotopes cannot be measured by the XRF.

          • with the initial logic that niocke was consumed as rossi said, I’ve computed that to replace all planet energy with electricity from LENR, you would need less than 1% of nickel yearly consumption…

            if as we expected nickel is not consumed, this need that nickel could even be recycled..

            so my opinion is you should rather
            – short all energy stock except TEG and turbines, and smartgrid
            – short or drop all green and climate business
            – long all energy consuming industries
            – long all that benefit from growth, like real-estate, food, leisure…
            – long gamma: expect the unexpected, like oil companies surviving

          • bachcole

            AlainCo, that was so good that I am going to translate it into unbroken English and send it to all of my friends.

          • thermo electric generator…
            They don’t work better than when Rossi failed for the army corps of engineers, but they are required… many theoretical breakthrough recently because of research to harness waste heat.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I take Rossi’s statement as an oversimplification that they might find any fault which would make the product less marketable or even unmarketable. Mr Rossi is a man who has been working with unknowns for a long time. Certainly there must have been times when he wondered if something which he missed was slowly killing him, or might suddenly kill him.
      He is an objective and rational man, who has to his credit what could be the single greatest invention of all time. He has a right to feel like this is too good to be true. God knows enough other people have expressed that feeling, albeit with a slightly different bias.

  • Gerard McEk

    I agree with your analysis Frank: It is likely that the ‘fuel'(Nickel & gasses) are thoroughly analysed to find a good explanation for the excess heat production and that the report may be delayed due to that. I do not buy Rossi’s anxiety that nothing at all is found and he would be nervous about that. I’ll be patient now Andrea, now I know things are investigated thoroughly and I am very much interested in the results of the Swedish measurements and analysis of that!

    • Guru

      I agree. And some absolutely heretic possibility: Remember XRFS (X-Ray Fluorescent Spectrometry) report from Defkalion presented at NIweek ? They had two times Ni AFTER run of reactor. All was in percentage, not one element was in grams or pico grams. So my heretic hypothesis is: Maybe not only energy is created in some LENR reactors, maybe also mass is created. I underline word created, i.e. not only transmuted.

      • bachcole

        That would be lovely. I only say that because I love scientific revolutions, and I would love to see the current cadre of cockroaches scatter.

      • Ophelia Rump

        It is an undefined reaction.
        Expect the unexpected!

      • Obvious

        XRF results are calibrated to dry mass of each element per total concentration. If you test something basically all nickel, then the results will be large percentages. The XRF cannot measure the actual mass of ingredients. Just relative content proportions. XRF is also generally bad at detecting light elements (low Z elements, like lithium, boron, etc., depending on the equipment and X-ray output power levels), so these often are missed or lumped together as total light elements, and frequently left out of the results.

        Edit: Also, if light elements block the beam from “seeing” the heavier elements, there will be an apparent lower result for the heavier elements. The beam does not penetrate very far into the tested material. After crushing and homogenizing the sample properly, these effects can be mitigated. But there are many ways to get bad or inaccurate results if proper preparation isn’t done. Grain size and crystal effects can really mess with results.

        Edit2: I just Googled and found the XRF data you mentioned. I can identify the results as from a consumer model Olympus XRF, based on the software and camera capture images. These are not lab quality results, even when extensively calibrated for a metallic matrix. Additionally, the results below 1% are totally unreliable in a metals mode, and are often artifacts of signal noise.

        Edit3: The most notable thing in these Defkalion XRF results is that the majority of the powder would appear to be composed of light elements, not nickel. This looks more like a nickel ore rock sample than a reactor grade, five nines nickel sample.

      • Broncobet

        Mass or energy can not be created or destroyed, only transmuted. Common usage I .like everyone says “energy created”,but technically what we look for is “exergy” useful energy.

        • Guru

          With Standard Model a LENR is impossible. So maybe more old dogmas (laws) may be threated.

          Planet Earth is reactor which is generating energy and is generating also mass.

          • “With Standard Model a LENR is impossible.”
            Like Ed Storms, I disagree
            http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEexplaining.pdf

            LENR is probably just a collective effect inside metal, based on classic quantum physics as the one that we don’t master enough to understand HTSC.

          • Broncobet

            Yes the earth has a reactor that keeps the core hot it is fission with Uranium and Thorium, and the Earth gains mass because asteroids and comets hit it every day.

          • Omega Z

            You miss the energy from the Sun being converted to matter.

          • Broncobet

            You have it the wrong way around. The sun converts mass to energy and converts hydrogen into helium. Here on earth they are proposing an experiment to turn energy to matter,like a minute amount.But plants converts the sun’s energy into material for us and other animals.

          • Omega Z

            No- I didn’t have it the wrong way around. You misunderstood.
            energy from the Sun being converted to matter.
            as in Plants turn energy to matter.
            It happens. Respond to someone with a long response only to realize you mist 1 word or read it to fast.. Totally changes everything. 🙂

          • The theory of an expanding Earth is interesting (not just by accretion, but possibly also as a result of other factors):

            http://www.dinox.org/expandingearth.html

            http://www.expanding-earth.org/

            Besides, ‘rationalwiki.org’ attempts a dismissive hatchet job, which means that the theory is probably true…

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Expanding_Earth
            (“See also
            Flat Earth
            Hollow Earth”)

          • Broncobet

            Of course it’s expanding;all the dust and rocks our planet runs into,plus,there’s a lot of water that rains down from space.Wasn’t that the point of “Water World” that eventually we’d have too much water?

          • That’s why I said “not just by accretion, but possibly also as a result of other factors” – meaning in this case core expansion or some other unknown mechanism, as discussed in the pages I linked to.

            The amount of water falling to ground from space is fairy minimal I believe – its mostly rock. My understanding of ‘Waterworld’ is that it is based on the scary predictions by various green factions that CO2 emissions would cause catastrophic climate changes that would result in the melting of the ice caps, and massive sea level rises as a result – nothing to do with expanding Earth theories or planetary accretion.

          • Broncobet

            Yeah ,I thought of that,the melting of the ice ,that would be the biggest factor in rising seas,but over time it can add up.Just looked it up; 100 tons of material each day.

          • First reply disappeared, so I’m re-posting the gist:

            That’s why I said “not just by accretion, but possibly also as a result of other factors” – meaning in this case core expansion or some other unknown factor, as suggested in the linked pages.

            The Waterworld movie was based on the premise that catastrophic climate change had melted the icecaps resulting in massive seal level rise – nothing to do with planetary accretion of water (which is minimal anyway).

      • Gerard McEk

        What do you mean by ‘two times Ni Guru’: twice the quantity of Ni they had before the run’?

        • Guru

          Exactly. This was first thing which I noticed in this report.
          Because folks here at forums for years rants and cry “Nickel will go up, Nickel will spent, How percentage of nickel mining will go into spent fuel” etc. So Defkalion uncover: In their reactor Nickel is produced.

          • Obvious

            With the same XRF Defkalion used, I could generate as much nickel variability by shaking the sample to stratify the grains, or with poorly homogenized material, simply by rotating the sample 90 degrees between tests.
            If half the nickel “disappeared”, instead, everyone would still be equally impressed, and would have learned just as much.

          • with they recent behavior, I’m afraid we cannot consider their result…
            Until they give credible explanation to their behavior, and solid evidence, we’d better ignore them.

          • Obvious

            I don’t know about ignore them. It is hard to gauge how much they actually know vs what they can do with what knowledge they might have.

            But without quality control info the two XRF sample examples cannot be relied on alone for any very specific elemental concentrations of the powder, other than that their powder is mostly elements with a Z less than 13, and not mostly nickel. Which in itself is a useful piece of the puzzle.

          • My question is whether they manufactured fake XRF results, as they did with gamberale demo, of if they really work on something that they could not show, and still cannot show, to Gamberale.

            a failure is a failure, but if you cannot correct it it is a tragedy.

          • Obvious

            I doubt the XRF results were faked. The spectra is there to see. Whether the XRF results are meaningful is another story. I could probably mess around and superimpose the spectra on a similar result I have or could make to see if the main peaks make sense, but I doubt it would be very meaningful either. Some carbon or plain baking flour sprinkled on an older Canadian quarter with a dash of sulphur for my roses might give a similar result anyways. Isotopes cannot be measured by the XRF.

          • with the initial logic that niocke was consumed as rossi said, I’ve computed that to replace all planet energy with electricity from LENR, you would need less than 1% of nickel yearly consumption…

            if as we expected nickel is not consumed, this need that nickel could even be recycled..

            so my opinion is you should rather
            – short all energy stock except TEG and turbines, and smartgrid
            – short or drop all green and climate business
            – long all energy consuming industries
            – long all that benefit from growth, like real-estate, food, leisure…
            – long gamma: expect the unexpected, like oil companies surviving

          • bachcole

            AlainCo, that was so good that I am going to translate it into unbroken English and send it to all of my friends.

            What is TEG?

          • thermo electric generator…
            They don’t work better than when Rossi failed for the army corps of engineers, but they are required… many theoretical breakthrough recently because of research to harness waste heat.

    • Ophelia Rump

      I take Rossi’s statement as an oversimplification that they might find any fault which would make the product less marketable or even unmarketable. Mr Rossi is a man who has been working with unknowns for a long time. Certainly there must have been times when he wondered if something which he missed was slowly killing him, or might suddenly kill him.
      He is an objective and rational man, who has to his credit what could be the single greatest invention of all time. He has a right to feel like this is too good to be true. God knows enough other people have expressed that feeling, albeit with a slightly different bias.

  • Private Citizen

    Rossi: ” Think what will happen to me should the results be negative…still a possible output, though, as far as I know.”

    Amazing that he seriously can entertain the slightest doubt after experimenting with working models of this technology, supposedly outputting many multiples of input power and able to run self-sustained, for decades.

    • JDM

      I don’t understand the importance of the TIP results to industrialization. If it works, then sell the darn things. IH certainly knows if the process and devices are marketable.

    • bitplayer

      Possible reasons for the “could still be negative” comments:
      > some legal point involving what IH feels it can or cannot represent (fiduciary obigation to investors),
      > a stipulation in the agreement with the testers (“we’re already putting our reputations on the line, don’t link us to potentially inaccurate publicity”)
      > AR being prudent in terms of his own reputation, which has been severely challenged in the past

      • Barry8

        In the past I think Rossi made some optimistic claims. The positive/ negative comments might be his way of curbing claims that are a little premature.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Wow, that is grasping.
      If he is absolute, he is incapable of objectivity.
      If he is objective, he doesn’t even believe in what he is selling.

      I sincerely doubt you could be satisfied with anything he could say.

      • heath

        Another take on Rossi leaving room for a failed test: I think what this test is really about is for IH to prove to investors that they have a viable and consistent product (the perhaps a newer Hot-Cat?) that runs for at least 6 months. So perhaps the doubts he may be speaking of is that the Hot-cat being tested needs to achieve a list of goals that IH and investors have laid out before they can truly begin developing uses for this heat. IH may be doing it’s own R&D, but from some of the news we’ve learned, other companies will work to adapt this to their proprietary systems. But you need a proven, consistent and reliable heat producing device first. He is probably hoping the device has reached all the goals of the test, but cannot say for sure. If one of the goals are not met, say, there are big fluctuations in the output, they will have to figure out why (prepare an argument, as he stated) and re-mediate it.
        As for the ash analysis, the results are likely more important for the patent application than anything else, then to energize universities, labs, etc. to research why the effect is indeed happening. So far none have been able to get access until this test it seems. Thank you, IH!

        • Ophelia Rump

          IH is a real game changer.
          Cherokee is all the credibility needed for me, Tom Darden is not risking his multi-billion dollar reputation for anyone.

          • blanco69

            OR? Can I ask what makes you believe that Tom Darden has a multi billion dollar reputation?

          • Ophelia Rump

            http://www.forbes.com/profile/thomas-darden/

            Forbes says so, in it’s profile of Tom Darden.

            Darden manages several billion and has been doubling his managed resources every year for years now.

      • heath

        Sorry, I just noted that you basically said the same thing below. 😉

    • deleo77

      Jed Rothwell, who knows the e-cat and Rossi better than most, has pointed out on several occasions that the e-cat had been known to work sometimes and not other times. It is just the nature of the reaction. It explains why some of the testing of the e-cat has worked and some haven’t worked. It is probably the main thing that is holding up its commercial launch. So there is a chance that the testers fired up the e-cat and it didn’t work. Rossi has been down this path several times before, so he has reasons to feel this way. On the other hand he has to feel some confidence knowing that the Swedes are now analyzing the isotopic composition of the fuel. This would imply that the device did its job. If the e-cat flopped and didn’t work 6 months ago, then why do this type of work now?

      Also, even though Rossi mentions the work now going on at different locations, I do not believe that measuring this composition should take a whole lot of time or analysis. It is just a matter of having the right equipment to do it.

      • Obvious

        Rossi said there were spare E-cats available for testing in case of problems, and they were not needed.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        The problems with the reliability of the early E-Cats could have been one of the reasons why Rossi has favored a modular concept. If the new Hot-Cat models are more reliable, we will perhaps see larger reactors one day. A few large reactors would require less maintenance time than many small devices. Therefore, one might expect that the development will finally move into this direction, provided that the technical issues can be solved.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi has mentioned the possibility of a 100Mw Reactor.
          However, there is good reason to use smaller modules.
          Modulating output by percentage according to demand And not having to shut down the entire system for maintenance or refueling..

          • Andreas Moraitis

            30 reactors à 100 MW could replace a conventional fission plant. You could still shut down some of them if necessary.

          • Paul

            I guess they are working to a theory too, but it requires the knowledge of the catalyst. Indeed, from the Lewan’s book we know the names of the theoretical physicists orbiting around this machine. They could have in future a new theory provided that they are allowed to access ALL the relevant data. However, I think that this is not the case. Limited info would mean questionable theory, and no Nobel Prize…

          • Omega Z

            No- I didn’t have it the wrong way around. You misunderstood.
            energy from the Sun being converted to matter.
            as in Plants turn energy to matter.
            It happens. Respond to someone with a long response only to realize you mist 1 word or read it to fast.. Totally changes everything. 🙂

          • Mariusz .

            There is an interesting work being done in Ukraine on the field of Cold Fusion (CF) by prof. Bolotov. He has Russian Federation patents since 1997 in this area but achieved success decades ago. He claimes to get COP 3 when fuel is zirconium. The proces is simple – hitting metalic fuel with electric current of certain density (I dont know how many ampers – 10 000?? )

          • Fortyniner

            The theory of an expanding Earth is interesting (not just by accretion, but possibly also as a result of cosmological factors):

            http://www.dinox.org/expandingearth.html

            http://www.expanding-earth.org/

  • Private Citizen

    Rossi: ” Think what will happen to me should the results be negative…still a possible output, though, as far as I know.”

    Amazing that he seriously can entertain the slightest doubt after experimenting with working models of this technology, supposedly outputting many multiples of input power and able to run self-sustained, for decades. Sounds like more than him doubting the experimenters might err, more like doubting if he’s actually found the moon in the well himself.

    • JDM

      I don’t understand the importance of the TIP results to industrialization. If it works, then sell the darn things. IH certainly knows if the process and devices are marketable.

      • bachcole

        IH has to be able to show industrial customers that the units will work for long periods of time without a lot of maintenance and safety problems.

        • Hector McNuget

          Safety no problem: is SGS certificated.

        • Broncobet

          Exactly

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          But if IH contracts to sell heat or electricity at below market, the customer needn’t to be persuaded of anything. IH would assume all risks. So the tests may be for for the benefit of potential investors.

    • Ophelia Rump

      Wow, that is grasping.
      If he is absolute, he is incapable of objectivity.
      If he is objective, he doesn’t even believe in what he is selling.

      I sincerely doubt you could be satisfied with anything he could say.

      • heath

        Another take on Rossi leaving room for a failed test: I think what this test is really about is for IH to prove to investors that they have a viable and consistent product (the perhaps a newer Hot-Cat?) that runs for at least 6 months. So perhaps the doubts he may be speaking of is that the Hot-cat being tested needs to achieve a list of goals that IH and investors have laid out before they can truly begin developing uses for this heat. IH may be doing it’s own R&D, but from some of the news we’ve learned, other companies will work to adapt this to their proprietary systems. But you need a proven, consistent and reliable heat producing device first. He is probably hoping the device has reached all the goals of the test, but cannot say for sure. If one of the goals are not met, say, there are big fluctuations in the output, they will have to figure out why (prepare an argument, as he stated) and re-mediate it.
        As for the ash analysis, the results are likely more important for the patent application than anything else, then to energize universities, labs, etc. to research why the effect is indeed happening. So far none have been able to get access until this test it seems. Thank you, IH!

        • Ophelia Rump

          IH is a real game changer.
          Cherokee is all the credibility needed for me, Tom Darden is not risking his multi-billion dollar reputation for anyone.

          • blanco69

            OR? Can I ask what makes you believe that Tom Darden has a multi billion dollar reputation?

          • Ophelia Rump

            Forbes says so, in it’s profile of Tom Darden.

            http://www.forbes.com/profile/thomas-darden/

            Darden manages several billion and has been doubling his managed resources every year for years now.

          • bachcole

            Not much in Forbes, but I GUARANTEE that is going to change soon. In 20 years high schools will be named after this guy.

          • Ophelia Rump

            There was a better profile with more numbers somewhere, but I can’t find it again. His rate of growth is astounding.

      • heath

        Sorry, I just noted that you basically said the same thing below. 😉

      • Hector McNuget

        No doubts ecats are TIP positive.
        Top class sciencetists: check.
        honest ecats maker: check.
        positive results: check.
        Hold patience. No haste. Tests possitive

    • deleo77

      Jed Rothwell, who knows the e-cat and Rossi better than most, has pointed out on several occasions that the e-cat had been known to work sometimes and not other times. It is just the nature of the reaction. It explains why some of the testing of the e-cat has worked and some haven’t worked. It is probably the main thing that is holding up its commercial launch. So there is a chance that the testers fired up the e-cat and it didn’t work. Rossi has been down this path several times before, so he has reasons to feel this way. On the other hand he has to feel some confidence knowing that the Swedes are now analyzing the isotopic composition of the fuel. This would imply that the device did its job. If the e-cat flopped and didn’t work 6 months ago, then why do this type of work now?

      Also, even though Rossi mentions the work now going on at different locations, I do not believe that measuring this composition should take a whole lot of time or analysis. It is just a matter of having the right equipment to do it.

      • Obvious

        Rossi said there were spare E-cats available for testing in case of problems, and they were not needed.

      • Andreas Moraitis

        The problems with the reliability of the early E-Cats could have been one of the reasons why Rossi has favored a modular concept. If the new Hot-Cat models are more reliable, we will perhaps see larger reactors one day. A few large reactors would require less maintenance time than many small devices. Therefore, one might expect that the development will finally move into this direction, provided that the technical issues can be solved.

        • Omega Z

          Rossi has mentioned the possibility of a 100Mw Reactor.
          However, there is good reason to use smaller modules.
          Modulating output by percentage according to demand And not having to shut down the entire system for maintenance or refueling..

          • Andreas Moraitis

            30 reactors à 100 MW could replace a conventional fission plant. You could still shut down some of them if necessary.

          • bachcole

            Now the engineering is new and the science is a mystery, and we have clunkers. The day will come when we understand the process and the science well enough that we won’t need the modules to be desktop sized.

  • Curbina

    Well, Rossi comes out as a very sensible person at times, certainly much more balanced and less agressive lately. Probably he has learnt more than in the past 3 years than we all imagine. I find really interesting his mention of not knowing much about what is going on the testing. Having patience is proving to be very difficult but we will have to wait, to no avail.

  • Curbina

    Well, Rossi comes out as a very sensible person at times, certainly much more balanced and less agressive lately. Probably he has learnt more than in the past 3 years than we all imagine. I find really interesting his mention of not knowing much about what is going on the testing. Having patience is proving to be very difficult but we will have to wait, to no avail.

    • Broncobet

      Of course he’s more balanced now, he got paid.

      • Omega Z

        Partial Payment. 11-12 Million of a total $20 Million

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys. from now on, i will use the term , Rossi effect, when referring to this anomalous heat event, produced by the E-CAT, Dr. Rossi deserves no less, others have said they have figured it out, if so that’s great, but so far no one has come forward with anything credible, that i know of. so this effect is Dr. Rossi’s baby, and therefore should bare his name, i was just trying to thing of a good,way to write it, RE. rossi effect, ARE andrea rossi effect, ARECE, Andrea Rossi e-cat effect, how about, THE ROSSI EFFECT, lol.

    • Daniel Maris

      Seconded IF and only if he gets it to market.

  • clovis ray

    Hi, guys. from now on, i will use the term , Rossi effect, when referring to this anomalous heat event, produced by the E-CAT, Dr. Rossi deserves no less, others have said they have figured it out, if so that’s great, but so far no one has come forward with anything credible, that i know of. so this effect is Dr. Rossi’s baby, and therefore should bare his name, i was just trying to thing of a good,way to write it, RE. rossi effect, ARE andrea rossi effect, ARECE, Andrea Rossi e-cat effect, how about, THE ROSSI EFFECT, lol.

  • Daniel Maris

    I agree – all energy systems, including nuclear and coal, have downtime and so it is critical. But a pilot installation is the best guarantee for would be customers.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    But if IH contracts to sell heat or electricity at below market, the customer needn’t to be persuaded of anything. IH would assume all risks. So the tests may be for for the benefit of potential investors.

  • Obvious

    Q: 4. Are x-rays present in the Hot Cat? A: 4. yes – JoNP Sept 13, 2012

    Q: 5. Are gamma rays present in the Hot Cat? A: 5. yes – JoNP Sept 13, 2012

    Q: 6. If so, are they responsible for MOST of the heat? A: 6. yes – JoNP Sept 13, 2012

    Rossi also says: ” The gamma rays do not exit from the reactors, as all the measurements made during hundreds of tests have given evidence for. The photons are turned into heat, therefore there are not long term effects, as well as there are not short term and middle term effects.” – JoNP March 13, 2013

    • Broncobet

      I’ll bet he’s lying.

      • Obvious

        Lying about what part?

  • Omega Z

    Partial Payment. 11-12 Million of a total $20 Million

  • Paul

    I guess they are working to a theory too, but it requires the knowledge of the catalyst. Indeed, from the Lewan’s book we know the names of the theoretical physicists orbiting around this machine. They could have in future a new theory provided that they are allowed to access ALL the relevant data. However, I think that this is not the case. Limited info would mean questionable theory, and no Nobel Prize…

  • Daniel Maris

    Do not make torture English language!

  • Christopher Calder

    If the Hot Cat did not produce excess heat, why would they even bother testing the fuel’s composition? Why would the testing take so long? I just hope the test results changes US policies and a move away from wind, solar, and biofuels to massive research into how to make LENR more efficient. How can we put LENR to work for us in automobiles, trucks, trains, ships, aircraft, spacecraft, etc., as soon as possible. Obviously, this will immediately become a matter of national security, with both military and civilian economic aspects, as soon as the technology is widely accepted as real. Will candidates mention LENR in speeches? Who will be first to warn of a LENR gap if China takes the lead?

    • Bernie777

      I agree we need to put LENR research on a super fast track. We need leaders to step up to the plate and lead!

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Do we know that the testing is taking a long time? Couldn’t they be working on the report instead? Or better yet, maybe they have completed the report and submitted it for peer review.

  • If the Hot Cat did not produce excess heat, why would they even bother testing the fuel’s composition? Why would the testing take so long? I just hope the test results changes US policies and a move away from wind, solar, and biofuels to massive research into how to make LENR more efficient. How can we put LENR to work for us in automobiles, trucks, trains, ships, aircraft, spacecraft, etc., as soon as possible. Obviously, this will immediately become a matter of national security, with both military and civilian economic aspects, as soon as the technology is widely accepted as real. Will candidates mention LENR in speeches? Who will be first to warn of a LENR gap if China takes the lead?

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I agree we need to put LENR research on a super fast track. We need leaders to step up to the plate and lead!

      • bachcole

        Leading doesn’t garner votes. Following and then pretending like one is leading garners votes. We need to get more people to understand that LENR is real and that our current alleged leaders are not leading.

    • bachcole

      I am not the least bit worried about an LENR gap. The bigger the gap the faster the USA will move into the era of almost free energy and both China and the USA will “feel” significantly LESS need for securing and exploiting offshore oil. So let the gap expansion begin!!!!!

      • MasterBlaster7

        What bach said….but I am wondering. If they are doing this high detailed analysis of the fuel….couldn’t they let slip the secret sauce in the 2nd report? That kinda worries me as there are no patent protections in place.

        Oh, and national security issues are out the window since we are already spoon feeding this to the Chinese.

        • Owen Geiger

          Part of the delay may be to secure the patents before publication of the report.

    • Broncobet

      NASA did a study and a presentation,on what to do with LENR if it works.Just go to their web site,you’ll enjoy it.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Do we know that the testing is taking a long time? Couldn’t they be working on the report instead? Or better yet, maybe they have completed the report and submitted it for peer review.

  • Bernie777

    Or maybe there are too many strings attached?

  • Andy Kumar

    Rossi has caused a lot of anxiety among the e-cat followers by constantly repeating his mantra of positive or negative. I had asked Rossi about his +/- stance politely but firmly about a month ago. He did not post my comments on JoNP but was kind enough to answer privately that +/- refers to the new hotcat only. He said that the old low temp e-cat demonstrated in October 2011 is working at a customer site. I cannot post his private email as that will be inappropriate.

    While Rossi is not saying it, my guess is that he wants to introduce the e-cat technology at the highest level of development. Hotcat results will be both +/- in that it works about half the time showing that the Rossi effect is real (+) and does not work the other half and hence cannot be
    relied upon yet (-).

    Andy

    • Thanks – very interesting and informative.

      Of course the unreliability issue is soluble by a simple kludge – stacking twice the number of units that should be required in a ‘boiler’ unit, so that 50% are working at any given time to generate the required output.

  • Kevin O

    I have a high level of confidence that this report will be positive. But skeptopaths cannot be placated, even if Jesus Himself said that Cold Fusion is the best route to energy independence at the second coming.

    So my aim is for normal skeptics and rational people. How do I point to this report and say, “it’s independent, it’s scientists with no axe to grind, it’s a verified heat anomaly on a device about to go into production”? Is there an independent organization who would settle one way or another that this upcoming report is scientifically healthy, regardless of any disruptive conclusions?

    • Daniel Maris

      Only peer reviewed publication in a journal like Nature would convince the people you talk of.

      Really, as Rossi says, it is only the market that is going to establish the truth.

      • It is true, and you can see how.

        See just that when you ask skeptopath like pomp to bring the single article that critics F&P and is not refuted… they have NO ASWER.
        they seriously think they are right, and they base their opinion on NO FACT, except CONSENSUS …

        Not sure Nature and other hich impact science comics will be the only path, and simply any of the big authority like APS, may be the trigger of the rat panic.

        Maybe some fission industry, energy industry, famous lab may trigger the rat panic. However it haves to be don from the head quarter.

        the error of LENr supporter have been to imagine there was need of evidence.
        There was evidence in 1989, and replicated evidence in 1992 without any reasonable doubt, and sure enough questions to call for intense research.

        The fact is that blackout on cold fusion is purely irrational and unscientific.
        It is people following the consensus, the authorities…
        it is what Milgram experiment have described. the horror of people obeying.

        It have to be solved by consensus manipulation, by authority manipulation, by lobbying if not bribery (some people name that “buying economic rent”, like for taxy licenses).
        Forget evidences.

        • Stefan Israelsson Tampe

          Yes,
          I’m very tired of summary judgement by academics without actual doing their work as a critic. There are 200+ replications of cold fusion in different labs, there are only summary statements like it’s because of bad quality, because of an unknown measurement error and so on. Of cause an unknown error is possible, but for 200+ labs documented successful tests, with no visible errors, where error bounds are many sigmas away from the explainable. A critic that claims this without actually pinpoint in each (or a good part) of these 200+ the possible error and hand it over to the cold fusion researchers are lazy *-paths. Because these experiments could be positive because cold fusion is possible, but with a difficult reproduction probability, just as with semiconductors when people started working with them. There is actually no sane way to handle this then funnel research to cold fusion and try to increase the reproduction rate. Or do a statistical test by randomizing heavy or ordinary water. This shows that science of today is not working as it should.

      • Kevin O

        There is some truth in what you say, essentially In Mercato Veritas.

        I think I found an intermediate way for LENR aficianados to push the point and even make money on it. There’s a new company called Nadex that might be willing to set up a simple binary contract that the independent report will be either Positive for Rossi or Negative. Simple as that.

        I love finding ways to push LENR and make money at it at the same time, so I would encourage other LENR fans to support this approach even if they won’t be engaging in it.
        ——————————————————————-
        Howdy:

        I’m interested in setting up a
        contract that I could trade on. It would have to do with the upcoming
        independent report about Andrea Rossi’s Ecat. Basically, if the
        independent professors’ report is positive or negative, it generates a
        binary result. Nadex or a trusted advising board would decide.

        I’ve previously gotten a LENR contract listed on Intrade, which paid out handsomely in favor of the replication…
        http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/85/2239.page

        and now I’ve moved into a position at CYPW, Cyclone Power,
        which I believe would benefit in the case of a LENR breakout. I’m
        active on Vortex-L
        http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]&q=from:%22Kevin+O%27Malley%22

        , the FQXI essay contest
        http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2024

        and the CYPW message board.
        http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/userview/;_ylt=AisoOBeSVYpsBJs6_SUkawfeAohG;_ylu=X3oDMTB2ODlnNzgyBHBvcwMyMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFNc2dCb2FyZHNYSFJVbHQ-;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3?&u=hellokevin%40sbcglobal.net&bn=6ed54729-7ab6-30d3-94f3-a20d6f37996d

        This is one of those fascinating black swan contracts. And
        it could make a name for Nadex, one way or the other. Controversy is
        just a way to steer interest to your site and service…

        best regards

        Kevin O

        • Fortyniner

          For such a bet to mean anything, ‘positive’ or ‘negative’ would need to be defined very clearly.

          IMO, the information that has become available over say the last 9 months has moved the balance of probability overwhelmingly in Rossi’s favour. A truly ‘skeptic’ position of ‘I’ll believe it when someone make a cup of tea using LENR’ is still (just) possible, but flat denial has now become an intellectually untenable stance.

          Those who purport to reject the possibility of cold fusion are increasingly clearly (1) literally unable to process information that doesn’t match their dogmatic world view, (2) unable to admit that their previous stance is now unsupportable and to adapt, or (3) know the truth but choose to pretend otherwise for their own (or someone else’s) purposes.

          I suspect the majority of those still spouting ridicule and refusing to even countenance the evidence fall into the latter category. Obviously no amount of proof will be enough for these people, and only the lack of a pay cheque will silence them.

          • Buck

            Thank you Frank for keeping us up to date.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            It would be a laughing stock if the reality of the testing were denied while the LENR succeeds in the market. This is no longer an infant technology, once it is significantly marketed.
            Science would have a very interesting year to remember, many careers begun and ended.

          • Buck

            Be prepared to laugh . . . there will be those who deny.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            A few like the radio woman.
            Fear of being burned will leave the critics irons from the fire, once they have seen one critic scalded. Already this has happened.
            One or two more will step forward while the rest step back.

          • Christopher Calder

            Where did you hear the COP was over 18? Is that just a guess or do you have an inside source?

          • Buck

            Christopher,

            This information has been brought together by LENR G at:
            LINK>> http://lenrftw.net/assessing_ecat_report.html#.U6UEB7FLq8A

            If you click the greyed out “Rumors” button in the upper right corner, just beneath “Comments”, you will toggle on/off the “Rumors”.

            The basis of the “>18 COP” can be found below the 4th table when “Rumors” is ON. Clicking through the entry will point you to an Italian blog entry. It is considered to be a credible rumor.

          • GreenWin

            Those cheques will likely continue until the last well runs dry and the last fission plant is mothballed. A sad and desultory living.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Anything that is independently testable will be revolutionary.

      Anything that only works in some lab in Lugano that no one else except the chosen few can see will be more of the same.

      If the report however is incontrovertibly positive, all the “normal skeptics” will rush to check it out; but the big revolution only happens when large industrial corporations (i.e. GE) and investors can reproduce the experiment independently. At that point there will be a rush to commercialization as that is the only rational choice absent government corruption to hid the invention — develop the technology and make money from it.

      And “skeptopaths” — very unprofessional characterization of people who are skeptical. They are not pathological — they just require a lot more evidence than you do. You really can’t blame them for distrusting a technology that is always around the corner, just like hot fusion is always 40 years away.

  • Kevin O

    I have a high level of confidence that this report will be positive. But skeptopaths cannot be placated, even if Jesus Himself said that Cold Fusion is the best route to energy independence at the second coming.

    So my aim is for normal skeptics and rational people. How do I point to this report and say, “it’s independent, it’s scientists with no axe to grind, it’s a verified heat anomaly on a device about to go into production”? Is there an independent organization who would settle one way or another that this upcoming report is scientifically healthy, regardless of any disruptive conclusions?

    • Broncobet

      Richard Garwin(I went to school with his son, Tommy, 52 years ago ,and wow was he smart) said “All I want is a hot cup of coffee and then to do it again”.Back in the 60’s this guy was protecting us all by crafting our most potent weapon,if he’s doubtful, your idea is probably bad.Obviously we would all like to believe,but we know that whatever they promise you, you will not get and any finish line or deadline or promised date will be lengthened and stretched and you all will go on believing.

    • Anon2012_2014

      Anything that is independently testable will be revolutionary.

      Anything that only works in some lab in Lugano that no one else except the chosen few can see will be more of the same.

      If the report however is incontrovertibly positive, all the “normal skeptics” will rush to check it out; but the big revolution only happens when large industrial corporations (i.e. GE) and investors can reproduce the experiment independently. At that point there will be a rush to commercialization as that is the only rational choice absent government corruption to hid the invention — develop the technology and make money from it.

      And “skeptopaths” — very unprofessional characterization of people who are skeptical. They are not pathological — they just require a lot more evidence than you do. You really can’t blame them for distrusting a technology that is always around the corner, just like hot fusion is always 40 years away.

      • bachcole

        There are skeptics and then there are skeptopaths, just as there are collectors versus hoarders, slender people versus anorexics, insensitive people versus psychopaths. Skeptics will look at the evidence; skeptopaths won’t. I was a Rossi skeptic for 19 months, until I happily looked at the evidence of the 2013 Levi report. Skeptopaths are usually malicious; skeptics are rarely malicious.

        It is funny that you should mention hot fusion and it’s 65 years of failure. Most skeptopaths believe in hot fusion. Most skeptics may be pleased with the theory or progress of hot fusion, but can understand why someone else would be skeptical and impatient with it not existing here on Earth.

  • Obvious

    Well, let’s just diffuse that right now.
    I am extremely opposed to stockpiling nuke waste to be dealt with later.
    I am extremely opposed to building anything dangerous in a potential fault zone, or tsunami zone, etc. I also am opposed to putting housing in historic flood zones.
    Historic mining of almost everything had unacceptable, in today’s perspective, risks for the workers. Uranium, lead, cobalt, nickel sulphides, arsenic, asbestos, you name it and workers were exposed to hazardous things and often paid with their lives, later if not sooner.
    Despite some stupidities, overall the nuke industry has a strong safety record compared to most industries. When corners we’re cut, then bad things happened. People fear the unseen dangers more than obvious dangers, so radiation gets a fearful response often out of proportion with the comparative risks. That doesn’t imply safeness of nuclear activities, but nuclear work can be safe with proper safeguards. That should include a proper management plan for waste and accidents. Plans in proper proportion to the dangers, and possibly an order of magnitude of margin of safety and planning beyond what might be needed, so the general public doesn’t irrationally fear the nuclear industry. Intentional cutting corners on safety of the public should be a crinme

  • MasterBlaster7

    What bach said….but I am wondering. If they are doing this high detailed analysis of the fuel….couldn’t they let slip the secret sauce in the 2nd report? That kinda worries me as there are no patent protections in place.

    Oh, and national security issues are out the window since we are already spoon feeding this to the Chinese.

    • Owen Geiger

      Part of the delay may be to secure the patents before publication of the report.

  • Daniel Maris

    This isn’t new is it? People built bridges and towers before they understand force dynamics. People mined coal to make steam before they understood about the phases of water. People built transatlantic telegraph lines before they understood the principles of electrical conductivity (and did so unsuccessfully as a result).

    Electricity was a very difficult phenomenon for people to get a hold on, because it manifested itself in so many ways, and not clearly consistent ways.

    I think LENR may be a similar phenomenon. By its nature – dealing with the interface between the atomic and sub-atomic worlds – it will manifest itself in lots of different ways and in what appear to be unpredictable ways.

  • Ophelia Rump

    There was a better profile with more numbers somewhere, but I can’t find it again. His rate of growth is astounding.

  • Broncobet

    So let’s assume that the devise works, but only part of the time and it is poorly understood.(btw You don’t need scientific theory to get a patent, you can show them a working model).One thing that is really important is how hot it gets.If it works most of the time with a high COP and gets to 100 F that’s not very useful. If the picture they displayed of a reactor glowing red hot is legit,and it works half the time that would be quiet useful.

  • Mariusz .

    There is an interesting work being done in Ukraine on the field of Cold Fusion (CF) by prof. Bolotov. He has Russian Federation patents since 1997 in this area but achieved success decades ago. He claimes to get COP 3 when fuel is zirconium. The proces is simple – hitting metalic fuel with electric current of certain density (I dont know how many ampers – 10 000?? )

  • deleo77

    Sounds about right. I wish they would just release the reactor performance results, and do the isotope analysis in a second report. But it looks like they will combine it all into one.

  • artefact

    arrr 3 more month …

    • Daniel Maris

      I’m sure we can all live with 3 months if the results are spectacular.

  • artefact

    arrr 3 more month …

  • Buck

    Thank you Frank for keeping us up to date.

    I am now left with an overwhelming intuition: given the positive circumstantial comments from Rossi over the last 9 months, the purported isotopic analysis, and the extended report development time frame, the report is fundamentally positive in nature. If the consensus of rumors is correct (long term continuous controlled generation of an industrial level of power at a >18 COP), then the academics are working concertedly to prevent what happened 25 years ago to F&P.

    They aren’t stupid . . . they see the results and the implications. They want to get it right this time around.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      It would be a laughing stock if the reality of the testing were denied while the LENR succeeds in the market. This is no longer an infant technology, once it is significantly marketed.
      Science would have a very interesting year to remember, many careers begun and ended.

      • Buck

        Be prepared to laugh . . . there will be those who deny.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          A few like the radio woman will deny.
          Fear of being burned will leave the critics irons from the fire, once they have seen one critic scalded. Already this has happened.
          One or two more will step forward while the rest step back.

        • bachcole

          That laughter that you hear is the really the panting of those rushing to throw themselves underneath the wheels of the Juggernaut.

    • Where did you hear the COP was over 18? Is that just a guess or do you have an inside source?

      • bachcole

        I read here 18 to 22, but people have adopted the conservative figure. I like the middle figure of 20.

      • Buck

        Christopher,

        This information has been brought together by LENR G at:
        LINK>> http://lenrftw.net/assessing_ecat_report.html#.U6UEB7FLq8A

        If you click the greyed out “Rumors” button in the upper right corner, just beneath “Comments”, you will toggle on/off the “Rumors”.

        The basis of the “>18 COP” can be found below the 4th table when “Rumors” is ON. Clicking through the entry will point you to an Italian blog entry. It is considered to be a credible rumor.

  • Fortyniner

    Thanks – very interesting.

    Of course the unreliability issue is soluble by a simple kludge – stacking twice the number of units that should be required in a ‘boiler’ unit, so that 50% are working at any given time to generate the required output.

  • GreenWin

    Yes, thanks Frank. The time frame matches the need for more time to sell / trade declining assets, mostly in the utilities sector. The rate of those declines will accelerate around second week of July, IMO. 🙂

  • GreenWin

    Yes, thanks Frank. The time frame matches the need for more time to sell / trade declining assets, mostly in the utilities sector. The rate of those declines will accelerate around second week of July, IMO. 🙂

  • Daniel Maris

    Could this be the test facility in Lugano?

    “Moody International Switzerland

    TECMAR, Via Guidino 9a/36, Paradiso, Lugano, CH-6900,
    Switzerland

    The Intertek Moody Group is a worldwide technical services
    organisation dedicated to reducing client risks by providing technical
    inspection services, technical staffing services, consulting and training, and
    management system certification. We provide our technical and safety services to
    the Oil & Gas, Power, Mining, Construction, Engineering, Chemical, and other
    heavy industries, and our management system certification to all industry
    sectors.”

    • Alain Samoun

      Good find! Thanks Daniel

  • Christopher Calder

    Defkalion should have their new reactor finished and tested by then, with some third party test results as well. I hate the wait for the Rossi test. It is sure to be positive, but how positive? I do hope the report is published in SCIENCE or some other significant peer reviewed journal. Otherwise, it all might just be ignored by the general media despite the effort.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      It would certainly make them more interesting if they had some claim to credibility.
      When the owner says that his credibility is derived from stealing the secret formula of a partner, this is more difficult than it is imaginable.

      • Christopher Calder

        Defkalion had legitimate reasons to develop their own design, which is now very different from the Rossi design. Defkalion acted very reasonably, and Rossi made some mistakes and lashed out emotionally. Rossi’s design at that time was not stable, and there were conflicts about where the reactors would be made and sold. Defkalion had obligations to financial backers which Rossi made impossible to honor. Defkalion had to do something new, otherwise Defkalion would effectively have nothing. It is a long story and not one sided.

        • their claims were acceptable at the beginning, and their lack of definitive evidence until gamberale report could be accepted.
          The report of gamberale is not an evidence they are void, but the eviodence is that they did not answer to the public or to gamberale.

          they claim they have something, despite they behave as if they have nothing to answer to gamberale… My analysis is they have nothing credible to show.

          Moreover having tried to fool a partner (I say so not because the report, but because they found nothing to answer to Gamberale), they have lost all credibility and raise all alarms against fraud…

          If they finally prove their reactor, I will not accept any doubt before trusting them. Rossi, despite his loose behavior sometime, is 100 times more credible, even without the Elforsk funded test.

          My first question is whether nelson was fooled by Defkalion during his preliminary test, or if they have something with a COP around 3…

          My second question is who fooled who, and if someone in Defkalion fooled someone else in Defkalion. People having followed the story with some human feeling, observing the brilliance of some character, the naivety of some other, the way some escaped the sinking ship, the comments of Rossi and friends opponents, the previous board of directors and investors, the linked-in CV can build an hypothesis about who fooled who…

        • to complete my vision, I follow you that they started to face an incoherent rossi (who maybe also was not happy with those business guys, visibly scrudge and aggressive in business, maybe desperate), and this lead them to develop their own technology…

          I don’t believe in them stealing technology, beside the simple belief that it is possible.

          This transition led to Xanthoulis buying all his partner share. There is basically Two important people in this company : Alexandros Xanthoulis (investor, CEO) and Yiannis hadjichristos(CTO, inventor?).

          Now something happened and one moment someone was so desperate that the first indication of success were insufficient that he decided to enter Denial/manipulation (hard to know if they lied to themselves, tried to fool a partner or to force him to close and flee by convincing him they were screwing him)

          I see hypothesis of decreasing possibilities :
          1- defkalion believed they have something, realised it was an error, and someone tried to save their money/job/dream by lying to client or partners..
          2- defkalion after a period when they tried to surf on Rossi invention, changed of business model to prepare stealing the IP of rossi
          3- Defkalion tried to convince Gamberale they are defrauding to keep the money and be able to complain against him (as they did with rossi)
          4- gamberale is the puppet of some interest to put defkalion out of business….

          latest hypothesis are not far from alien conspiracy theory… no 1 is quite classic for a startup with individual investor, or employee, and tiny team who cannot afford to lose his money or his job, and is convinced he can finally win and deliver (like a pathological gambler). Enron boss did so in a way, and sunk with the boat.

          i took very risky position, but when defkalion don’t answer to Gamberale, or to us, they have to know it is for us a clear evidence the “discrepancies” of Gamberale, are not “errors”. i asked them and they did not answer more. It is their clear responsibility if we go to the logical conclusion.

  • Defkalion should have their new reactor finished and tested by then, with some third party test results as well. I hate the wait for the Rossi test. It is sure to be positive, but how positive? I do hope the report is published in SCIENCE or some other significant peer reviewed journal. Otherwise, it all might just be ignored by the general media despite the effort.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      It would certainly make them more interesting if they had some claim to credibility.
      When the owner says that his credibility is derived from stealing the secret formula of a partner, this is more difficult than it is imaginable.

      Who will ever trust this thief in business again?

      • Defkalion had legitimate reasons to develop their own design, which is now very different from the Rossi design. Defkalion acted very reasonably, and Rossi made some mistakes and lashed out emotionally. Rossi’s design at that time was not stable, and there were conflicts about where the reactors would be made and sold. Defkalion had obligations to financial backers which Rossi made impossible to honor. Defkalion had to do something new, otherwise Defkalion would effectively have nothing. It is a long story and not one sided.

        • their claims were acceptable at the beginning, and their lack of definitive evidence until gamberale report could be accepted.
          The report of gamberale is not an evidence they are void, but the eviodence is that they did not answer to the public or to gamberale.

          they claim they have something, despite they behave as if they have nothing to answer to gamberale… My analysis is they have nothing credible to show.

          Moreover having tried to fool a partner (I say so not because the report, but because they found nothing to answer to Gamberale), they have lost all credibility and raise all alarms against fraud…

          If they finally prove their reactor, I will not accept any doubt before trusting them. Rossi, despite his loose behavior sometime, is 100 times more credible, even without the Elforsk funded test.

          My first question is whether nelson was fooled by Defkalion during his preliminary test, or if they have something with a COP around 3…

          My second question is who fooled who, and if someone in Defkalion fooled someone else in Defkalion. People having followed the story with some human feeling, observing the brilliance of some character, the naivety of some other, the way some escaped the sinking ship, the comments of Rossi and friends opponents, the previous board of directors and investors, the linked-in CV can build an hypothesis about who fooled who…

        • to complete my vision, I follow you that they started to face an incoherent rossi (who maybe also was not happy with those business guys, visibly scrudge and aggressive in business, maybe desperate), and this lead them to develop their own technology…

          I don’t believe in them stealing technology, beside the simple belief that it is possible.

          This transition led to Xanthoulis buying all his partner share. There is basically Two important people in this company : Alexandros Xanthoulis (investor, CEO) and Yiannis hadjichristos(CTO, inventor?).

          Now something happened and one moment someone was so desperate that the first indication of success were insufficient that he decided to enter Denial/manipulation (hard to know if they lied to themselves, tried to fool a partner or to force him to close and flee by convincing him they were screwing him)

          I see hypothesis of decreasing possibilities :
          1- defkalion believed they have something, realised it was an error, and someone tried to save their money/job/dream by lying to client or partners..
          2- defkalion after a period when they tried to surf on Rossi invention, changed of business model to prepare stealing the IP of rossi
          3- Defkalion tried to convince Gamberale they are defrauding to keep the money and be able to complain against him (as they did with rossi)
          4- gamberale is the puppet of some interest to put defkalion out of business….

          latest hypothesis are not far from alien conspiracy theory… no 1 is quite classic for a startup with individual investor, or employee, and tiny team who cannot afford to lose his money or his job, and is convinced he can finally win and deliver (like a pathological gambler). Enron boss did so in a way, and sunk with the boat.

          i took very risky position, but when defkalion don’t answer to Gamberale, or to us, they have to know it is for us a clear evidence the “discrepancies” of Gamberale, are not “errors”. i asked them and they did not answer more. It is their clear responsibility if we go to the logical conclusion.

  • jousterusa

    With respect to this observation, of ” a question about whether the Swedes were authorized to measure the isotopic composition of the E-Cat fuel (as referenced by the Swedish professors’ recent statement), so when Rossi says that analysis is being done in Swedish labs, it indicates they are still analyzing…” I am puzzled. If the model is anything like the one that exists in the United States, it is highly unusual – and probably unknown – for public radio to mount a harsh attack on scientists at their nation’s universities – particularly on matters not involving something much more subjective, such as sociology or anthropology.

    Normally, universities and academic-minded people are the lifeblood of public radio. Yet, at least here in the US, much of their funding may come from Big Energy sponsors. So why did Sveriges Radio attack Swedish scientists, who apparently are working on the third independent test? Given the responses we’ve read about here, they have already taken some pretty heavy flak from the academic world that has forced them on the defensive. I suspect something much deeper is going on.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      This is a strong line of questioning. I ask you then, who would benefit? Who is in direct competition with the LENR investigation in Sweden? Below are is the list of power companies in Sweden from Wikipedia. A list of players to begin with.

      E.ON Sverige

      Eskilstuna Energy and Environment

      FortumM

      Mälarenergi

      Skellefteå Kraft

      Svenska KraftnätU

      Umeå Energi

      Vattenfall

      • jousterusa

        I presume that list is just of the big power companies. Everyone who makes a combustion engine has much to fear from the future E-Cat – all over Europe. Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Maxfield!

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          Sorry I took the list down when I realized my mistake of not accounting for the integrated Nordic power market. Yes that list was just energy providers, and the fourth largest provider was not even on the source list, so Wikipedia is an incomplete resource even for that purpose.

          For a moment I thought we might be able to narrow the field, then the list seemed to become global of it’s own accord, despite my best intention.

    • kdk

      Just remember that they buried tons of Tesla’s research, never to been seen again (at least by us).

      Maxfield said it, who has lots (I mean deca-millions+) of money and wouldn’t be hurt financially by a positive result on a commercially available cold fusion device?

      Beyond that, it will eventually cause large geo-political shifts across the board (not that they haven’t known that free energy was possible for a long time). Would Russia be messing around as much in Ukraine if Europe wasn’t beholden to Gazprom, or other oil and gas producers? Cold fusion is as big of a shake up as they come besides maybe aliens…

      • jousterusa

        Interesting comment. I sort of turned it around in my head and asked myself, are there any big, rich outfits that would join the fight for cold fusion if only because it would decimate their competition? Like the solar power or wind power people?

        • Fortyniner

          I think you are on the right track, but looking in the wrong areas. Solar and wind are as threatened by CF as coal and nuclear. Even their owners – the banks and big investment houses – would probably not be in a position to pave the way for Rossi, even in the unlikely case that they decided to do that.

          If I were looking for a grouping powerful enough to decide that the time was right for LENR/CF (provided of course that they could control its introduction) I would look towards upper-level power mongers such as the Bilderbergers and/or the Trilateral Commission and similar. It is likely that only people at that level would have the clout to protect Rossi from those who might prefer him to disappear, and who are presumably behind incidents such as the Swedish radio show.

          • Owen Geiger

            But those are the ones who own the existing oil, gas, and power companies, etc. They may be behind the Middle East wars to create pipelines. Why would they want to switch to LENR?

          • Fortyniner

            I’m not saying they would – however..

            Oil and gas are finite resources with limited remaining life, and these people seem to think strategically, looking at extended time periods in which to assume ever greater control of resources and populations. What better way forward than to control the world’s energy supply?

            They are fully capable of overriding the interests of some of their members if this moves them towards they goals, but in any case arrangements could be made to ensure the continued (CF based) prosperity of those adversely affected. Practically everyone else represented in these groups would profit immensely from cheap energy.

            All this of course assumes that LENR will only be introduced behind a ‘safety’ firewall, i.e., would become a monopoly controlled by the current energy cabal. It remains to be seen whether moves will be made to bring this about in the near future.

          • Owen Geiger

            They may allow LENR in commercial plants where it can be controlled for maximum profit and military uses. They may roll it out slowly so their current investments can be gradually wound down. Obviously this approach is not favorable to most of humanity.

          • Fortyniner

            I agree with your analysis.

          • “LENR will only be introduced behind a fabricated ‘nuclear safety’ firewall, i.e., will become a monopoly controlled by the current energy cabal.”

            i’m not a cabalist (bilderberg is myth) but this behavior is classic for any big business. only competition between the big guys will prevent them to capture all …

            the job of small business and citizen will be to block those big guys to capture all.

          • Fortyniner
          • Fortyniner
          • bachcole

            I prefer Maxfield Q Norse’s and my understanding of the Bilderbergs and any other conspiracy:

            Maxfield Q Norse: Conspiracy theorists. The sky is falling. The fact that none has hit me on the head is proof of a cover-up, this must be known at the highest levels.

            bachcole: It makes me think that it is some kind of psychological
            thing. “The sky is falling” = they are not happy. “The fact that none
            has hit me on the head” = They don’t quite know why they are unhappy.
            “is proof of a cover-up” = it is unconscious unresolved issues. “this
            must be known at the highest levels” = my parents are the cause of my
            unconscious emotional problems. (:->)

          • when I say myth, it is conspiracy of people working together…
            It is just meeting of rats trying to get information and alliance from peer who may be useful.
            Davos, or Las Vegas ECS is no more.*

            what looks more like what you say is the 7 sisters, a cartel, like drug cartels, like telecom cartel we had in France until Free telecom came, …

            what you descrive, trying to manipulate the government to over regulate LENr so the big pockets only can benefit from it, is usual big pocket behavior… not conspiracy/

            some may even organize a cartel, or at least an organization, to defend their needs (of money)…

          • Alain Samoun

            I think that you may forget something: The E-Cat, as we know it, is not only a new energy source,but also it could change the way the energy is distributed: The user can control his energy use,not a remote entities like a corporation or group of corporations. That’s what this revolution is in my opinion.

        • US_Citizen71

          How about the agricultural industry? They use plenty of energy and generally in places on the fringe of the grid or completely off of it. An LENR powered tractor/harvester would greatly increase the profitability of a farmer. Water provided by well pumps, desalination or condensed from the air all would be a great candidate for LENR energy. Then there is processing the crops. Hemp, for example, is poised to make a huge comeback in the US when it does the processing of the crop will likely use more energy than than what was required to plant and harvest it. Large scale food production (Con Agra) would be another area that could benefit from LENR. Biofuels are another agricultural related industry that LENR could help. Cheap to free heat for a still makes ethanol much cheaper. Then there is the pyro-catalytic processes that turn cellulose into fuel when when the cellulose is exposed to the right catalysts at high temperatures. LENR’s friends may come from areas that we least expect.

          • Heath

            And think of how this will provide for a new, workable sort of desalinization for inland crops. Farm equipment that can be battery powered. The way that this sort of invention will work its way into every sliver of life is almost incomprehensible when you really stop and try to predict the scope. This is why we are waiting for this report. A positive result changes the world vastly and I truly believe quickly.

      • Fortyniner

        ‘Hephaheat’ is nothing more than a new design of low frequency induction process heater. Induction heating is a long standing industrial heating system that seems unlikely to hold any surprises.

        “The system works by charging a metallic thermal store to a high temperature (500 to 900°C). By using a material such as steel, which has approximately the same volumetric heat capacity as water, substantially more thermal energy may be retained than in a similar tanked volume of water. When hot water is required, the cold water input is split into two separate branches. One is allowed to flow into the thermal store with the flow rate controlled by a standard valve. When this branch flows through the thermal store it is instantaneously converted to steam which is then mixed (via a steam injector) into the second branch of cold water. This mix of steam to cold water allows the output water temperature to be controlled.”

        http://www.steorn.com/heating/why-hephaheat/

        http://www.steorn.com/pdf/hepha-website.pdf

        Steorn make no claim of overunity – this claim comes solely from Sterling Allen on Peswiki. If you know where else an O/U claim is made for this system, perhaps you could post a link here?

        • Guru

          Yes, carefully look at video of HephaHeat prototype and analyse this.

          Manufacturers conditioned contract with 18 to 36 months testing phase.
          They just got this.

          Input claimed as 1kW(e), output claimed in some litres per minute and rest is visible. It is not joke. HephaHeat tech has CoP somewhere between 5 (their words) to 40 (rough analysed from video).

          http://pesn.com/2011/10/05/9501927_Steorn_CEO_Posts_Overunity_Heater_Video/

          https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150307425998977

          https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150313946288977

          • Fortyniner

            Mmmm – only Sean’s suggestions of flow rates etc. and it’s not at all clear how long power is applied for. In any case the rate of steam production doesn’t look inconsistent with a kW or so input (ordinary kettle at full tilt).

            The fact that heat ‘production’ begins almost instantaneously indicates to me that the thermal mass may already be heated when the video begins, otherwise there would be a time delay as it heats up. I think Mr McCarthy is having a bit of fun with these videos.

          • Guru

            I executed Mini-Min, Maxi-Max, Mini-Max whatever calculations.

            At official pamphlet and all talks, everytime was underlined “one phase AC input”, xo maximum input may be 230V 15 Amps one phase i.e. 3450 W input. Output is VISIBLE well above this scale.

            Cardinal triumph ace may be price “the same as traditional electric heaters” i.e. well under Rossi and DGT dreams.

            McCarthy told “in market within first half of 2014” so it is in line with Rheem heavy discount on ALL production lines until June 30, 2014 i.e. not only above 55 gallons (affected after April 16 2015 law). Rheem mother is Paloma (Japan) and Fulford (Japan) wrote about some OU tech on production lines.

            Not 100% proofs, although some hints.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Nothing has changed since 1600.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5LF-_KdC6Y

      • kdk

        Well, to be fair, we haven’t burned anyone at the stake in a while. Maybe that’s a contributing factor to them engaging with us in a more equal manner. Because, being burned alive is pretty much as bad as it comes.

        • Omega Z

          We don’t burn them any more.
          We crucify their reputations & livelihoods.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            They’re just different ways of “being responsible”.

          • kdk

            It’s true, maybe there will be a day when we are able to resolve these disputes where people don’t feel they have to do drastic things to others.

  • jousterusa

    With respect to this observation, of ” a question about whether the Swedes were authorized to measure the isotopic composition of the E-Cat fuel (as referenced by the Swedish professors’ recent statement), so when Rossi says that analysis is being done in Swedish labs, it indicates they are still analyzing…” I am puzzled. If the model is anything like the one that exists in the United States, it is highly unusual – and probably unknown – for public radio to mount a harsh attack on scientists at their nation’s universities – particularly on matters not involving something much more subjective, such as sociology or anthropology.

    Normally, universities and academic-minded people are the lifeblood of public radio. Yet, at least here in the US, much of public radio funding may come from Big Energy sponsors. So why did Sveriges Radio attack Swedish scientists, who apparently are working on the third independent test? Given the responses we’ve read about here, they have already taken some pretty heavy flak from the academic world that has forced them on the defensive. I suspect something much deeper is going on.

    To put this in an unusual perspective, back when I was a private investigator I learned from official correspondence that a county supervisor in Los Angeles – one of the “five emperors,” as they are known – had intervened, during an official audit into suspected payment irregularities, to get questioned invoices to a contributor paid quickly – despite the audit and the questions (my research actually made the contributor repay $250,000, as it turned out). Just a day after I went to the LA County DA’s Office of Special Investigations, the supervisor resigned.

    In this case, a public radio station weighed in, very critically, while a very significant and widely-watched verification study was occurring, even at the risk of its own reputation. It is unusual behavior, to say the least. I think they are only the first casualty of what will prove to be a very expensive (for them) disinformation campaign against Rossi and his device. Regrettably, in the absence of a knowledgeable and effective community response, these attacks can succeed in discrediting LENR/CF for decades.

    A supportive audience and approving public is something that Pons and Fleischmann did not enjoy (because they were first). We and Rossi do not lack that resource, but we surely face the same threat. This is why it is so important to respond quickly and aggressively to attacks like this one. We should try to mirror – i.e., produce in reverse – the ignorant, willful and malicious – and unfounded – critics of Pons and Fleischmann, doing for Rossi what we could not do for them. We should be knowledgeable, deliberate and constructive, well-armed with facts, and ready to reach out, not only in full to the media but also to all parts of society, for support – always remembering that we do it not for ourselves or for Rossi or science in general, but for the many generations yet unborn that are mankind’s future, ensuring that the miracle P&F discovered is available to them all down through the centuries to come. If we can give it to them, they will build upon it and create many other great or even greater discoveries that benefit humanity. Please: be prepared to fight for our side, and for our future!

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      This is a strong line of questioning. I ask you then, who would benefit? Who is in direct competition with the LENR investigation in Sweden?
      The list is larger than the list of energy providers in Sweden. The Swedish wholesale power market is part of the integrated Nordic power market, so any other players in that market would be on the suspect list. In truth the list is global, many people might have anti-LENR interests.

      • jousterusa

        I presume that list is just of the big power companies. Everyone who makes a combustion engine has much to fear from the future E-Cat – all over Europe. Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Maxfield!

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          Sorry I took the list down when I realized my mistake of not accounting for the integrated Nordic power market. Yes that list was just energy providers, and the fourth largest provider was not even on the source list, so Wikipedia is an incomplete resource even for that purpose.

          For a moment I thought we might be able to narrow the field, then the list seemed to become global of it’s own accord, despite my best intention.

    • bachcole

      What is going on is fear of change.

    • kdk

      Just remember that they buried tons of Tesla’s research, never to been seen again (at least by us).

      Maxfield said it. Who has lots (I mean deca-millions+) of money and wouldn’t be hurt financially by a positive result on a commercially available cold fusion device?

      Beyond that, it will eventually cause large geo-political shifts across the board (not that they haven’t known that free energy was possible for a long time). Cold fusion is as big of a shake up as they come besides maybe aliens… Presidents have been assassinated for less. Frankly, I think it’s a miracle that Rossi’s made it this far.

      • jousterusa

        Interesting comment. I sort of turned it around in my head and asked myself, are there any big, rich outfits that would join the fight for cold fusion if only because it would decimate their competition? Like the solar power or wind power people?

        • I think you are on the right track, but looking in the wrong places. Solar and wind are as threatened by CF as coal and nuclear. Their owners – the banks and big investment houses – may well be among those behind the ongoing anti-Rossi propaganda campaign.

          If I were looking for a grouping powerful enough to decide that the time was right for LENR/CF despite the wishes of the current energy cabal (provided of course that they could control its introduction) I would look towards upper-level power mongers such as the Bilderbergers and/or the Trilateral Commission and similar. It is likely that only people at that level would have the clout to protect Rossi from those who might prefer him to go away (and who are presumably behind incidents such as the Swedish radio show).

          • Owen Geiger

            But those are the ones who own the existing oil, gas, and power companies, etc. They may be behind the Middle East wars to create pipelines. Why would they want to switch to LENR?

          • Oil and gas are finite resources with limited remaining life, and these people (Bilderbergers et al.) seem to think strategically, looking at extended time periods in which to assume ever greater control of resources, money supply and populations. What better way forward than to move to assume total control of the world’s energy supply? (and incidentally end Russian gas exports in the process). The alternative of ‘laissez faire’ would in any case be unthinkable to control freaks of this kind.

            They are fully capable of overriding the interests of some of their members if this moves them towards their goals. In any case arrangements could be made to ensure the continued (CF based) prosperity of those adversely affected by shifting all costs of asset write-down and upgrading to private consumers, under some kind of ‘green’ cover.

            Practically everyone else represented in these groups would profit immensely from cheap energy. In the meantime the ‘anti’ propaganda continues in order to delay CF for as long as possible while the scenery is moved around behind the curtains.

            All this of course assumes that LENR will only be introduced behind a fabricated ‘nuclear safety’ firewall, i.e., will become a monopoly controlled by the current energy cartel. It remains to be seen whether moves will be made to bring this about when the new independent test results are released and (probably shortly after) the location of the pilot plant is disclosed and IH and associates begin their sales/leasing drive (possibly scheduled for Sept/Oct this year).

          • Owen Geiger

            They may allow LENR in commercial plants where it can be controlled for maximum profit and military uses. They may roll it out slowly so their current investments can be gradually wound down. Obviously this approach is not favorable to most of humanity.

            Also note, this same group of globalists own the largest banks.

          • I agree with your analysis.

          • “LENR will only be introduced behind a fabricated ‘nuclear safety’ firewall, i.e., will become a monopoly controlled by the current energy cabal.”

            i’m not a cabalist (bilderberg is myth) but this behavior is classic for any big business. only competition between the big guys will prevent them to capture all …

            the job of small business and citizen will be to block those big guys to capture all.

          • bachcole

            I prefer Maxfield Q Norse’s and my understanding of the Bilderbergs and any other conspiracy:

            Maxfield Q Norse: Conspiracy theorists. The sky is falling. The fact that none has hit me on the head is proof of a cover-up, this must be known at the highest levels.

            bachcole: It makes me think that it is some kind of psychological
            thing. “The sky is falling” = they are not happy. “The fact that none
            has hit me on the head” = They don’t quite know why they are unhappy.
            “is proof of a cover-up” = it is unconscious unresolved issues. “this
            must be known at the highest levels” = my parents are the cause of my
            unconscious emotional problems. (:->)

          • when I say myth, it is conspiracy of people working together…
            It is just meeting of rats trying to get information and alliance from peer who may be useful.
            Davos, or Las Vegas ECS is no more.*

            what looks more like what you say is the 7 sisters, a cartel, like drug cartels, like telecom cartel we had in France until Free telecom came, …

            what you descrive, trying to manipulate the government to over regulate LENr so the big pockets only can benefit from it, is usual big pocket behavior… not conspiracy/

            some may even organize a cartel, or at least an organization, to defend their needs (of money)…

          • Guru

            Dear Alain, in our country exist dark person name Knight Schwarzenberg (called here “Schlafenberg” because of his behaviour in government poaition). This dark knight few days back PUBLICLY admitted, that he and Heinrich “Henry” Kissinger at Bilderberg meeting VOTED against bombing Serbia in 90s and other attendees voted for bombing. So Bilderberg is NOT innocent session of friends. It is dark and dirty cabal of cabalist in unvoted body of one of power centre. More knows Daniel Estulin.

          • it is a conference with high fees, gathering rich and influential people; and it seems it is led by a lobby of people trying to oppose a liberal/free-market agenda (I investigated a little).

            It is not innocent as it is a lobby via information.
            People go ther to meet other peers and exchange views, exchange position to synchronize them…
            It is not innocent, like a cartel of a lobbyist, but it is not a black cabinet…
            just yet another lobby like agenda 21, Rome Club, Davos, all fighting for different visions and inviting the same guys.

            the guy who tried to control BBC communications on some science question, with industrial vested interest, ideology vested interest, were even worse (but smaller, because size and variety prevent the most awful conspiracy not to leak)

          • bachcole

            I don’t see the dark and dirty part, and I don’t see that anything that they vote for has any power.

          • bachcole

            This does not support the contention that they are able to get along and control everything and that they are out to get you. If they are trying to co-ordinate things, more power to them. We need all of the co-ordination that we can get. And one or two conferences every year doesn’t seem like enough time to get much done. Sorry, but I am just not very paranoid.

          • Alain Samoun

            I think that you may forget something: The E-Cat, as we know it, is not only a new energy source,but also it could change the way the energy is distributed: The user can control his energy use,not a remote entities like a corporation or group of corporations. That’s what this revolution is in my opinion.

          • bachcole

            Yes. It is also revolutionary in that it will toss the elitist physicists out on their ears.

          • Alain Samoun

            That will be a side effect,don’t worry they will recover…

          • bachcole

            Certainly, but only after we stop laughing at them and only after they come up with a mathematically elegant theory that describes both the patterns of hot fusion and the patterns of cold fusion.

        • US_Citizen71

          How about the agricultural industry? They use plenty of energy and generally in places on the fringe of the grid or completely off of it. An LENR powered tractor/harvester would greatly increase the profitability of a farmer. Water provided by well pumps, desalination or condensed from the air all would be a great candidate for LENR energy. Then there is processing the crops. Hemp, for example, is poised to make a huge comeback in the US when it does the processing of the crop will likely use more energy than than what was required to plant and harvest it. Large scale food production (Con Agra) would be another area that could benefit from LENR. Biofuels are another agricultural related industry that LENR could help. Cheap to free heat for a still makes ethanol much cheaper. Then there is the pyro-catalytic processes that turn cellulose into fuel when when the cellulose is exposed to the right catalysts at high temperatures. LENR’s friends may come from areas that we least expect.

          • Heath

            And think of how this will provide for a new, workable sort of desalinization for inland crops. Farm equipment that can be battery powered. The way that this sort of invention will work its way into every sliver of life is almost incomprehensible when you really stop and try to predict the scope. This is why we are waiting for this report. A positive result changes the world vastly and I truly believe quickly.

      • bachcole

        I like your appraisal that LENR is as big a shake-up as would be possible short of aliens. I see it as exactly the same.

        However, I think that Tesla went crazy. His idea of broadcasting energy and thinking that people could just set up antenna and receive that energy is an example of his craziness. We already have such schemes. They are called radio and television stations, and they are just fine for broadcasting signals, but they suck at broadcasting power. The very same people who believe in Tesla and this particular idea think that people are getting brain tumors from cellphone towers, which very well may be true, but if it is true, then what happens to all of the people who live anywhere with a 50 mile radius of one of Tesla’s power broadcasting stations.

        The whole idea of free energy is absurd. LENR is not free energy. The energy has to come from somewhere.

        I just don’t get the Tesla worship. Free energy does not exist. If it did, people would be powering their laboratories and their homes and disconnecting from the grid. And all of these great discoveries of Tesla that have supposedly been suppressed, where is the evidence that they ever existed? Or is their absence the evidence that they existed and then were suppressed?

        • Owen Geiger

          What about Tesla’s car? Lots of people supposedly saw him driving it around with no internal combustion engine.

          • bachcole

            This kind of rumor needs to be weighed against the laws of thermodynamics to see which one has the most weight. If the rumor was true, Tesla could EASILY have substantiated it with a demonstration better than a rumor.

          • Alain Samoun

            Owen said “no internal combustion engine”
            Obviously it was an electric car…

        • Alain Samoun

          Brother:
          Free energy to me would be energy that you can get with a relative simple mechanism or machine. For example a bicycle could be considered as a free transportation. I think,the way Rossi’s E-Cat has been demonstrated would correspond to a free energy machine.
          About Tesla,of course you know AC/DC,among others Tesla’s ideas,Tesla motors use an electric engine based on his design, for his energy tower, google ” schumann resonance sprite ” and see that in the future we could get energy from thunderstorms. I could not resist to direct you to read the book of my daughter Abigail “Mind Afire”,advertized on this site ;=) to change your mind about Tesla.

          • bachcole

            You are redefining the words “free energy”. According to the traditional use of the words, a bicycle is definitely not free energy, and this becomes obvious when you try to pedal up a long hill. (:->) The Universe may be free energy if you believe in the steady state theory (as opposed to the Big Bang theory).

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Nothing has changed since 1600.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5LF-_KdC6Y

      • kdk

        Well, to be fair, we haven’t burned anyone at the stake in a while. Maybe that’s a contributing factor to them engaging with us in a more equal manner.

        • Omega Z

          We don’t burn them any more.
          We crucify their reputations & livelihoods.

          • Alan DeAngelis

            They’re just different ways of “being responsible”.

          • kdk

            It’s true, maybe there will be a day when we are able to resolve these disputes where people don’t feel they have to do drastic things to others.

  • Bernie777

    I would like to hear a discussion on this excellent site about IH. For me there seems to be a disconnect between what Rossi says about IH and what he expects them to do. There also seems to be a disconnect between the men in charge of IH and what we would like them to accomplish. Ideas? Thoughts?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Maybe that’s because the men in charge at IH don’t know you exist.

      • Bernie777

        What difference does that make?

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      I would like to participate in this discussion but your questions are not specific enough for me to be able. Can you please specify the the disconnects and the expectations to which you are referring?

      Tom Darden is the owner of Cherokee, and is the President of Industrial Heat. Both companies can be leveraged to play significant rolls. What the game plan is, is not announced yet.

      What we know of Cherokee is that it is an investment fund which specializes in brownfield redevelopment. The rehabilitation of industrial sites for new industrial use. Cherokee is at somewhere around 2 Billion dollars per year in new investments, currently doing approximately 100% growth per year. So that next year if they wished to channel all new investment income to Industrial Heat that would amount to approximately 4 Billion dollars at their disposal to do so. This is of course assuming that Industrial Heat does not generate any new interest for Cherokee as an investment, which I think is unlikely.

      • Bernie777

        Maxfield Q Norse…..thanks for your input that is good start to the discussion: To clarify my concerns. You are right we do not know even their general goals for the E-Cat, Why? What does an investment group know about product introduction? What does an investment group know about marketing a product like the E-Cat. Could research progress faster if an investment group was not in charge? What relationship do they have with the US government, if any? Please don’t take me the wrong way, I am not anti IH or even sorry they bought the rights to the E-Cat, I just want to know what others on this site think they are headed with this invention which I think could be a game changer. I think it is a very basic question for anyone interested in the E-Cat.

        • Omega Z

          Bernie777

          I’m reasonably confident that I.H. is involved with multiple entities as we post. China for sure & likely wasn’t the 1st to be consulted with.

          I.H./Cherokee doesn’t have the expertise or facilities for building boilers/turbines etc & especially for mass production. These things are very likely being arranged with others. If you’ve ever been involved with something of this nature, Even a full on Rush takes much time.

          Even if I.H. was ready for E-cat production, It would serve little purpose other then to tie up lots of money in inventory. There are no ready made products to install them in. It all needs designed & tested before manufacturing lines would be setup. If we’re lucky, Will know of a small scale prototype in use by a customer by the end of the year.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            You are right that Cherokee and IH do not build industrial equipment.
            Over the years, Darden of Cherokee has probably built sites for some and has enlisted the help of others to build his sites. He is integrated at the highest levels into those industries to coordinate the rapid turnaround, by turning the manufacture of industrial plants and factories into a series of deals with others.

            They say they have product designed and ready and a factory. I take them at their word. I do not expect the factory or the directly manufactured product to be the profit center for Cherokee, but it is important to the enterprise. IH will be the center of research and development for the core product.

          • Bernie777

            Omega Z….I agree it is a long difficult complicated process that is why I hope IH is forming partnerships with this likes of GE, Siemens. So far I have not seen any indication or hint of that, have you?

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          Bernie777, you seem sincere to me or I would not even try to discuss with you. I ask you this question who does have the experience to bring a new energy source to market?

          I would argue that Cherokee is as close to a perfect fit as is possible.

          IH we know virtually nothing about, It is as far as I know either a new venture built around Rossi, or one which Mister Tom Darden was already funding. Rossi now has a factory because Cherokee builds them.

          Cherokee we know has already made a deal with China regarding the Rossi technology. We know that China has already named several locations as sites for incubating the technology in their country.

          Scientists we know are able to investigate the technology, not free from harassment but shielded by the fact that Cherokee has given it an industrial level of credibility.

          Cherokee can scale the money flow into the technology to profoundly high levels.

          Cherokee can build factories for either the direct production of the technology, or for sale to other organizations who wish to incorporate the technology to manufacture their own.

          What do you think they cannot bring to the table either directly or by deal making with subject matter experts?

          Tom Darden is a deal maker. This new technology is an engine for generating deals as if it were throwing off sparks.

          • Bernie777

            Maxfield Q Norse….Good point about the IH purchase and scientists becoming more active in LENR research, I had not thought about it from that angle. Who is better equipped to bring LENR to market? I would argue, GE, ABB, Siemens, they have the money the expertise and they are in the energy business, big time. I hope you are right about China, but I have not heard anything specific about LENR research, have you? You are right about deal making, I hope Tom Darden is a good one. I would argue it will take 500 billion to do the job right not the 4 or 5 IH is equipped to handle. Why would you not think I am sincere? Like many on this site I have been spending way too much time (almost 4 years!) following Rossi and LENR. (:

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            I believe that I said I have no reason to believe you insincere. You have misread me on that.

            GE, ABB, Siemens, they are great at what they do. But they do not introduce new energy sources on a routine basis.

            Darden as deal maker has the power of every one of them and more, all at the same time, by making deals with them, allowing them to do what they do best. Darden can sell each a factory to build Hot-Cat technology to their own specifications for integration into their products, simultaneously.
            A feat which none can achieve alone.

            And since he has built one factory already, he has only to place orders with his industrial equipment suppliers for the same items to build more.
            This is a very powerful position. Mister Tom Darden if he plays his game well can become the most influential deal maker on the planet.

            In theory if Darden chose to go that route, he could turn out thousands of factories to produce the technology each year, simply by making deals as a broker.

          • bitplayer

            Would you turn it loose before you had done everything possible to establish yourself as the discoverer of a new principle of nuclear physics? Altruism makes a good story right up to the point where you can actually grasp the ring.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            Yes, in a heartbeat, I would put it on the market and then no one could steal the credit entirely, or just kill it.

            Perhaps you are talking about the report, sorry I missed that for a moment.
            The report will be as perfect as two teams of academics can make it. For obvious reasons of self preservation and promotion. And they have every right to both.

          • Omega Z

            Max
            Enjoy your posts, but disagree with your 1st statement here assuming your speaking of a product.
            Keeping in mind P&F, They need to get the 1st one right from the beginning. A flop could lead to a long delay in acceptance.

        • Heath

          It might help to reread the IH press release. It is a bit vague but there is a lot there to draw from. DardenVaughn are environmentalists, hence the focus on returning brownfields to useful land, and as Vaughn announced, they want to roll this tech out broadly and responsibly, especially to the developing world. Not think back about the many hopes for the e-cat that Rossi has mentioned on Jonp and their direction becomes much clearer. This tech is in really good hands.

          • Bernie777

            Heath….I did reread their press release, I too get the sense that IH has very good intentions, I am worried about if they are up to the task and have a strong profit motive. If they are not where does this leave LENR, I am listening intently to hear who they are partnering with.

          • Heath

            This I can well understand, as it is always in the back of our minds. What we do have to go on is DardenVaughnCherokee’s track record. This is where I have a lot of hope. Profit will come no matter what, but the change that this will unleash is profound. But I too wish this was not so secretive.

        • Heath

          I also would like to add that I think their previous work in brownfields is the key to the e-cat strategy. Instead of land, they seek to redevelop those countries that are really suffering from pollution (coal replacement) which is why China has been involved at such an early stage. Most likely they are looking to help California here in the US which has some of the most polluted cities in the country due to geography and population. The second part seems to be to bring electricity to nations that still do not have it–to remote regions that desperately need it and it is a truly global mindset. When we worry about whether Big Oil and Gas will get in the way, I think this is where the governments of these many nations have played a role and will continue to so to prevent them from interfering. The fact that Biden visited the Sino-US technology center and Obama visited the research triangle in NC, is a very good sign of where these governments stand. Add in the recent announcements on CO pollution limits from both governments and the picture becomes clearer still. and politically, Coal is likely the easiest industry to replace first, having been severely weakened but NG prices and it’s role in pollution of both countries.
          Will this bring us cheaper electricity in our home? Not immediately. But it does have the utility companies very worried and those that invest in them are leaving in droves

          • Heath

            But to give us hope for our own economic benefit, Rossi has reiterated that he is working intently on the domestic e-cat. IH with a macro focus, Rossi with a micro focus.

          • bachcole

            Not directed at you, Heath, but I find it peculiar that we here in the USA are worried, collectively, about our economic welfare. We are the most prosperous nation in the history of the world, and yet we worry about our prosperity. I wonder how my mother-in-law in the Philippines who we support with $225 each month feels about her economic well-being.

            The problem with us here in the USA is that our desires/expectations are just a little bit ahead of our incomes, and this makes us miserable, even if we all have big screen TVs. On the other hand, my mother-in-law is happy on less, so the $225 per month is quite sufficient. Her expectations/desires are less, so she is happier. She is delighted to get enough to eat and be able to spend an hour sitting on her porch chatting with the neighbors or singing songs while the neighbor boy plays the guitar.

          • Heath

            I hear what you are saying and it is a great point–the difference between what we want vs need.

          • Bernie777

            Heath…I have not heard of IH’s interest in remediation in other countries or interest in creating new power sources for undeveloped countries, I sincerely hope they are interested. You are right it is positive to see Biden visit China and Obama to NC, but if it is for LENR why keep it a secret?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    I would like to hear a discussion on this excellent site about IH. For me there seems to be a disconnect between what Rossi says about IH and what he expects them to do. There also seems to be a disconnect between the men in charge of IH and what we would like them to accomplish. Ideas? Thoughts?

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Maybe that’s because the men in charge at IH don’t know you exist.

      • bachcole

        And IH fails to understand how very important Bernie777 is.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        What difference does that make?

        • bachcole

          I guess that we think that you think that IH should be required to answer your every question. I don’t feel that way. They don’t really care what I think or what my questions are. I am just happy that Rossi found a safe harbor.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            bachcole…..Please don’t be so negative. Of course I do not think IH should answer every question, there is nothing wrong with discussing the alternatives facing IH and if they are up to the task, if you do not want to join the discussion, please don’t.

    • bachcole

      I see NO disconnect whatsoever. Since IH is almost completely silent, there can be no disconnect with something that is absent.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      I would like to participate in this discussion but your questions are not specific enough for me to be able. Can you please specify the the disconnects and the expectations to which you are referring?

      Tom Darden is the owner of Cherokee, and is the President of Industrial Heat. Both companies can be leveraged to play significant rolls. What the game plan is, is not announced yet.

      What we know of Cherokee is that it is an investment fund which specializes in brownfield redevelopment. The rehabilitation of industrial sites for new industrial use. Cherokee is at somewhere around 2 Billion dollars per year in new investments, currently doing approximately 100% growth per year. So that next year if they wished to channel all new investment income to Industrial Heat that would amount to approximately 4 Billion dollars at their disposal to do so. This is of course assuming that Industrial Heat does not generate any new interest for Cherokee as an investment, which I think is unlikely.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Maxfield Q Norse…..thanks for your input that is good start to the discussion: To clarify my concerns. You are right we do not know even their general goals for the E-Cat, Why? What does an investment group know about product introduction? What does an investment group know about marketing a product like the E-Cat. Could research progress faster if an investment group was not in charge? What relationship do they have with the US government, if any? As for their size, not very impressive, when your talking about a new energy source. Please don’t take me the wrong way, I am not anti IH or even sorry they bought the rights to the E-Cat, I just want to know what others on this site think about where they are headed with this invention which could be a game changer. I think it is a very basic question for anyone interested in the E-Cat.

        • bachcole

          To tell you the truth, I never thought much about it. And now that you mentioned it, I still don’t have any inclination to think about it. I have complete confidence that they know what they are doing.

        • Omega Z

          Bernie777

          I’m reasonably confident that I.H. is involved with multiple entities as we post. China for sure & likely wasn’t the 1st to be consulted with.

          I.H./Cherokee doesn’t have the expertise or facilities for building boilers/turbines etc & especially for mass production. These things are very likely being arranged with others. If you’ve ever been involved with something of this nature, Even a full on Rush takes much time.

          Even if I.H. was ready for E-cat production, It would serve little purpose other then to tie up lots of money in inventory. There are no ready made products to install them in. It all needs designed & tested before manufacturing lines would be setup. If we’re lucky, Will know of a small scale prototype in use by a customer by the end of the year.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            You are right that Cherokee and IH do not build industrial equipment.
            Over the years, Darden of Cherokee has probably built sites for some and has enlisted the help of others to build his sites. He is integrated at the highest levels into those industries to coordinate the rapid turnaround, by turning the manufacture of industrial plants and factories into a series of deals with others.

            They say they have product designed and ready and a factory. I take them at their word. I do not expect the factory or the directly manufactured product to be the profit center for Cherokee, but it is important to the enterprise. IH will be the center of research and development for the core product.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Omega Z….I agree it is a long difficult complicated process that is why I hope IH is forming partnerships with this likes of GE, Siemens. So far I have not seen any indication or hint of that, have you?

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          Bernie777, you seem sincere to me or I would not even try to discuss with you. I ask you this question who does have the experience to bring a new energy source to market?

          I would argue that Cherokee is as close to a perfect fit as is possible.

          IH we know virtually nothing about, It is as far as I know either a new venture built around Rossi, or one which Mister Tom Darden was already funding. Rossi now has a factory because Cherokee builds them.

          Cherokee we know has already made a deal with China regarding the Rossi technology. We know that China has already named several locations as sites for incubating the technology in their country.

          Scientists we know are able to investigate the technology, not free from harassment but shielded by the fact that Cherokee has given it an industrial level of credibility.

          Cherokee can scale the money flow into the technology to profoundly high levels.

          Cherokee can build factories for either the direct production of the technology, or for sale to other organizations who wish to incorporate the technology to manufacture their own.

          What do you think they cannot bring to the table either directly or by deal making with subject matter experts?

          Tom Darden is a deal maker. This new technology is an engine for generating deals like some wouldbe competitors technology is an engine for throwing off sparks.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Maxfield Q Norse….Good point about the IH purchase and scientists becoming more active in LENR research, I had not thought about it from that angle. Who is better equipped to bring LENR to market? I would argue, GE, ABB, Siemens, they have the money the expertise and they are in the energy business, big time. I hope you are right about China, but I have not heard anything specific about LENR research, have you? You are right about deal making, I hope Tom Darden is a good one. I would argue it will take 500 billion to do the job right not the 4 or 5 IH is equipped to handle. Why would you not think I am sincere? Like many on this site I have been spending way too much time (almost 4 years!) following Rossi and LENR. (:

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            I believe that I said I have no reason to believe you insincere. You have misread me on that.

            GE, ABB, Siemens, they are great at what they do. But they do not introduce new energy sources on a routine basis.

            Darden as deal maker has the power of every one of them and more, all at the same time, by making deals with them, allowing them to do what they do best. Darden can sell each a factory to build Hot-Cat technology to their own specifications for integration into their products, simultaneously.
            A feat which none can achieve alone.

            And since he has built one factory already, he has only to place orders with his industrial equipment suppliers for the same items to build more.
            This is a very powerful position. Mister Tom Darden if he plays his game well can become the most influential deal maker on the planet.

            In theory if Darden chose to go that route, he could turn out thousands of factories to produce the technology each year, simply by making deals as a broker. The technology is now in a position where if he takes that approach, it can be integrated into all manner of products in the shortest possible time period.

            So much concern I hear about time, from people on this forum. The time something takes is the time which it takes. I hope to see such technology in my life, these are my wildest dreams. It is not my automobile, or the automobile of anyone but Tom Darden. The gas pedal is his, we will arrive sooner rather than later for him participating on what could have become a lost cause, now it is for us to sit back and be patient, like the good little people who we are. Perhaps he will stop and buy us ice cream on the way.

          • clovis ray

            you sir have no idea what is really going on, do you have any links to what you say is going on, if you think siemens and ge don’t know how to market energy you are sadly mistaken, tom darden is small fish, if e-cat is real, he will soon to be moby dick.

          • bachcole

            I.H. was founded exactly one day before Rossi announced his partnership with I.H. That is my understanding.

          • Frank Acland

            That’s not the case. IH Incorporation documents were filed in August 2013 (http://www.secinfo.com/d1gBmn.xe.htm)

            The IH press release was in January 2014

          • bachcole

            I could have sworn that there was something about Rossi joining I.H. one day after the incorporation documents were filed. Perhaps I am mistaken.

        • Heath

          It might help to reread the IH press release. It is a bit vague but there is a lot there to draw from. DardenVaughn are environmentalists, hence the focus on returning brownfields to useful land, and as Vaughn announced, they want to roll this tech out broadly and responsibly, especially to the developing world. Not think back about the many hopes for the e-cat that Rossi has mentioned on Jonp and their direction becomes much clearer. This tech is in really good hands.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Heath….I did reread their press release, I too get the sense that IH has very good intentions, I am worried about if they are up to the task and have a strong profit motive. If they are not where does this leave LENR, I am listening intently to hear who they are partnering with.

          • Heath

            This I can well understand, as it is always in the back of our minds. What we do have to go on is DardenVaughnCherokee’s track record. This is where I have a lot of hope. Profit will come no matter what, but the change that this will unleash is profound. But I too wish this was not so secretive.

        • Heath

          I also would like to add that I think their previous work in brownfields is the key to the e-cat strategy. Instead of land, they seek to redevelop those countries that are really suffering from pollution (coal replacement) which is why China has been involved at such an early stage. Most likely they are looking to help California here in the US which has some of the most polluted cities in the country due to geography and population. The second part seems to be to bring electricity to nations that still do not have it–to remote regions that desperately need it and it is a truly global mindset. When we worry about whether Big Oil and Gas will get in the way, I think this is where the governments of these many nations have played a role and will continue to so to prevent them from interfering. The fact that Biden visited the Sino-US technology center and Obama visited the research triangle in NC, is a very good sign of where these governments stand. Add in the recent announcements on CO pollution limits from both governments and the picture becomes clearer still. and politically, Coal is likely the easiest industry to replace first, having been severely weakened but NG prices and it’s role in pollution of both countries.
          Will this bring us cheaper electricity in our home? Not immediately. But it does have the utility companies very worried and those that invest in them are leaving in droves

          • Heath

            But to give us hope for our own economic benefit, Rossi has reiterated that he is working intently on the domestic e-cat. IH with a macro focus, Rossi with a micro focus.

          • bachcole

            Not directed at you, Heath, but I find it peculiar that we here in the USA are worried, collectively, about our economic welfare. We are the most prosperous nation in the history of the world, and yet we worry about our prosperity. I wonder how my mother-in-law in the Philippines who we support with $225 each month feels about her economic well-being.

            The problem with us here in the USA is that our desires/expectations are just a little bit ahead of our incomes, and this makes us miserable, even if we all have big screen TVs. On the other hand, my mother-in-law is happy on less, so the $225 per month is quite sufficient. Her expectations/desires are less, so she is happier. She is delighted to get enough to eat and be able to spend an hour sitting on her porch chatting with the neighbors or singing songs while the neighbor boy plays the guitar.

          • Heath

            I hear what you are saying and it is a great point–the difference between what we want vs need.

          • bachcole

            Yes, and because it is sort of a collective thing, my being able to enjoy my life with simple things like meditation, chatting, gardening, and guitar playing would be demolished by someone who is so very unhappy because they don’t have a BIG screen TV and comes into my house and steals what I have and rapes my wife. Or the price of houses is so high that I have to live in a poor neighborhood and they are all miserable because their expectations are not met and they express their frustrations by using drugs, etc. Or the competition for jobs is so great that I can’t get one. It is nice to be a monk, but I am afraid that we are also affected by everyone else to some extent.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Heath…I have not heard of IH’s interest in remediation in other countries or interest in creating new power sources for undeveloped countries, I sincerely hope they are interested. You are right it is positive to see Biden visit China and Obama to NC, but if it is for LENR why keep it a secret?

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I’ve also been wondering about the “earlyautumn” remark. But there is no reason to panic: As deleo77 says, they mean most probably that after the technical report, which will hopefully arrive soon, a scientific paper will be submitted to a mainstream journal in autumn. Or they have it submitted yet and in autumn will be the publication date.

  • Andreas Moraitis

    I’ve also been wondering about the “earlyautumn” remark. But there is no reason to panic: As deleo77 says, they mean most probably that after the technical report, which will hopefully arrive soon, a scientific paper will be submitted to a mainstream journal in autumn. Or they have it submitted yet and in autumn will be the publication date.

  • Jonnyb

    Well I hope the report is out and reported in major news sources before September the 18th. Scotland is voting for independence on that date and the greedy up here think that they will be rich with all the oil and useless wind farms. Please guys try and hurry up.

  • Jonnyb

    Well I hope the report is out and reported in major news sources before September the 18th. Scotland is voting for independence on that date and the greedy up here think that they will be rich with all the oil and useless wind farms. Please guys try and hurry up.

  • Pierre Ordinaire

    GreenWin says:

    “Jeez Al, your goin on makin bets like Senior Skep Randi just makes us look… a joke. How ’bout the guys whats bad mouthing our utilities?? Thats where serious dough$$ is:

    “Utilities Could Go the Way of the Streetcar”

    “Unless electric utilities provide new services that customers want, they may go the way of the streetcar, which once ruled America’s cities but relied on regulators for protection from competition, according to a new paper from the nonprofit Energy Center.” Forbes 6/17/2014

    Now, Big Willy pretends he ain’t worried – at’s why he’s BW. But us regular skeps what believe in our eclectric grid is worried. It’s our friggin money!

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2014/06/17/utilities-could-go-the-way-of-the-streetcar

    • GreenWin

      Ha ha! Although the ECN “GreenWin” is a skeptical caricature, he is damned amusing! Thanks Pierre.

      • Pekka Janhunen

        Aha, so we were talking about Nature magazine (and Science by extension) specifically. What criteria they want to apply is their business. To me (if not referring to any particular journal) it’s sufficient for being replicable if another team could in principle get the same box from AR and to repeat the test. A manmade physical box is always replicable in this sense. It might be that AR is not willing to sell or give the box to someone who asks (this we don’t know), but it would be odd, I think, if the scientific interest or uninterest towards the phenomenon would depend on such commercial issues.

        Of course, a glass box tells more than a black box. I mean that hopefully they also publish some isotope analysis.

  • Hope4Dbest

    GreenWin says:

    “Jeez Al, your goin on makin bets like Senior Skep Randi just makes us look… a joke. How ’bout the guys whats bad mouthing our utilities?? Thats where serious dough$$ is:

    “Utilities Could Go the Way of the Streetcar”

    “Unless electric utilities provide new services that customers want, they may go the way of the streetcar, which once ruled America’s cities but relied on regulators for protection from competition, according to a new paper from the nonprofit Energy Center.” Forbes 6/17/2014

    Now, Big Willy pretends he ain’t worried – at’s why he’s BW. But us regular skeps what believe in our eclectric grid is worried. It’s our friggin money!

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2014/06/17/utilities-could-go-the-way-of-the-streetcar

    • GreenWin

      Ha ha! Although the ECN “GreenWin” is a skeptical caricature, he is damned amusing! Thanks Pierre.

  • Christina

    IMHO, IH is probably bringing out the report at the same time it’s opening to the public its hot-cat-making factories so that IH can prove it actually has a product and not just a report.

    Its public doesn’t have to be every, Joe, Dick, and Harry who wants to see it, but the people who might want to purchase the hot cat instead of coal to work their energy-producing plants.

  • Freethinker

    With regard to rumours… They are just that, as is – I believe – the information abort the report coming in September. Its a pitty it is stated with such authority, without any kind of attempt to reference.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Rossi would surely have been informed about such a delay, and I see no reason why he shouldn’t have provided an update to the readers of his blog.

  • Freethinker

    With regard to rumours… They are just that, as is – I believe – the information abort the report coming in September. Its a pitty it is stated with such authority, without any kind of attempt to reference.

    • Andreas Moraitis

      Rossi would surely have been informed about such a delay, and I see no reason why he shouldn’t have provided an update to the readers of his blog.

      • Guru

        He already provided update, wrote: “…patience….”
        So it is update

  • Guru

    This is standard and proven way which cabal operate. 3rd week of June is postponed to September with vague promises of media decision makers. Later will another excuses from media decision makers. So cabal will have more time to sold later worthless assets to dumb folks at CEZ, EPH and other. Just now some informed company sold for billions their shares in energy conglomerate EPH to clueless founders. So is similar also on other fronts.
    In meantime Rheem or A.O.Smith will half quietly introduce OverUnity HephaHeat tech with CoP somewhere between 5 to 40 for fraction of price of E-Cats, with starting times 14 seconds (i.e. not 2 hours at old E-Cat). Later folks probably realize some similarities between HephaHeat and Hot-Cat.
    It is better to avoid word “nuclear”, so HephaHeat is “magnetic” he, he. On shelves somewhere after June 30. These cheap fast effective OU devices will on shelves and cabal will discussed how much is need delay some Hot-Cat report.
    I nearly forgot: What was demanded price for old 1MW E-Cat ? 1,5 mil USD ? i.e. 15 thousands USD for one 10kW module ?? Yeah, HephaHeat tech will much, much cheaper and faster at start and faster at market.

    • ‘Hephaheat’ seems to be nothing more than a new design of low frequency process induction heater. Induction heating is a long standing industrial heating method that seems unlikely to hold any surprises.

      “The system works by charging a metallic thermal store to a high temperature (500 to 900°C). By using a material such as steel, which has approximately the same volumetric heat capacity as water, substantially more thermal energy may be retained than in a similar tanked volume of water. When hot water is required, the cold water input is split into two separate branches. One is allowed to flow into the thermal store with the flow rate controlled by a standard valve. When this branch flows through the thermal store it is instantaneously converted to steam which is then mixed (via a steam injector) into the second branch of cold water. This mix of steam to cold water allows the output water temperature to be controlled.”

      http://www.steorn.com/heating/why-hephaheat/

      http://www.steorn.com/pdf/hepha-website.pdf

      Steorn make no claim of overunity – this seems to originate solely from Sterling Allen on Peswiki. If you know where else any O/U claims are made for this system (other than websites echoing Peswiki) perhaps you could post a link here?

      • Guru

        Yes, carefully look at video of HephaHeat prototype and analyse this.

        Manufacturers conditioned contract with 18 to 36 months testing phase.
        They just got this.

        Input claimed as 1kW(e), output claimed in some litres per minute and rest is visible. It is not joke. HephaHeat tech has CoP somewhere between 5 (their words) to 40 (rough analysed from video).

        http://pesn.com/2011/10/05/9501927_Steorn_CEO_Posts_Overunity_Heater_Video/

        https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150307425998977

        https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150313946288977

        • Mmmm – only Sean’s suggestions of flow rates etc. and it’s not at all clear how long power is applied for. In any case the rate of steam production doesn’t look inconsistent with a kW or so input (ordinary kettle at full tilt).

          The fact that heat ‘production’ begins almost instantaneously indicates to me that the thermal mass may already be heated when the video begins, otherwise there would be a time delay as it heats up. I think Mr McCarthy is probably having a bit of fun with these videos.

          • Guru

            I executed Mini-Min, Maxi-Max, Mini-Max whatever calculations.

            At official pamphlet and all talks, everytime was underlined “one phase AC input”, xo maximum input may be 230V 15 Amps one phase i.e. 3450 W input. Output is VISIBLE well above this scale.

            Cardinal triumph ace may be price “the same as traditional electric heaters” i.e. well under Rossi and DGT dreams.

            McCarthy told “in market within first half of 2014” so it is in line with Rheem heavy discount on ALL production lines ending June 30, 2014 i.e. not only above 55 gallons (affected after April 16 2015 law). Rheem mother is Paloma (Japan) and Fulford (Japan) wrote about some OU tech already on production lines.

            Not 100% proofs, although some hints.

          • Guru

            I executed Mini-Min, Maxi-Max, Mini-Max whatever calculations.

            At official pamphlet and all talks, everytime was underlined “one phase AC input”, xo maximum input may be 230V 15 Amps one phase i.e. 3450 W input. Output is VISIBLE well above this scale.

            Cardinal triumph ace may be price “the same as traditional electric heaters” i.e. well under Rossi and DGT dreams.

            McCarthy told “in market within first half of 2014” so it is in line with Rheem heavy discount on ALL production lines until June 30, 2014 i.e. not only above 55 gallons (affected after April 16 2015 law). Rheem mother is Paloma (Japan) and Fulford (Japan) wrote about some OU tech on production lines.

            Not 100% proofs, although some hints.

  • Gerald

    This date for me is much more logical. The Swedisch kids already have their summer holliday. Everywhere in Europe people are starting to go on vacation. This will go on until the Italians kids end their vacation in september.. And a isotope analysis means to me they had excess heat and want to no what is going on.. But still it is rumour and it’s no more. Shame, next month my holliday starts and I would love to read then. Sun, beer and the e-cat report.. Sounds good!

  • Gerald

    This date for me is much more logical. The Swedisch kids already have their summer holliday. Everywhere in Europe people are starting to go on vacation. This will go on until the Italians kids end their vacation in september.. And a isotope analysis means to me they had excess heat and want to no what is going on.. But still it is rumour and it’s no more. Shame, next month my holliday starts and I would love to read then. Sun, beer and the e-cat report.. Sounds good!

  • Fortyniner

    That’s why I said “not just by accretion, but possibly also as a result of other factors” – meaning in this case core expansion or some other unknown mechanism, as discussed in the pages I linked to.

    The amount of water falling to ground from space is fairy minimal I believe – its mostly rock. My understanding of ‘Waterworld’ is that it is based on the scary predictions by various green factions that CO2 emissions would cause catastrophic climate changes that would result in the melting of the ice caps, and massive sea level rises as a result – nothing to do with expanding Earth theories..

  • clovis ray

    Gerald, it would be sad, to think these testers, are holding the world in limbo, while they all go on vacation, that would be criminal, surly that is not the case.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      These men risk their reputations and careers to bring credibility and you suggest they are retarding the effort.

      The sensation which you are feeling is that of your wheels leaving the road.

      Surely it is not the case. It was a lovely use of innuendo and a subtle twist of the blade. In the final accounting it is a small sad and misguided thing.

      • clovis ray

        come on Max, where will their reputations be if all is true, yep histroy books, so don’t give us that old tired explanation,, i did not say they were retarding the effort,Gerald said that, and i assure you my feet is on the ground, i’m just tired of the ever ending delay, why would any prospective buyer think this is not a scam when all the credible evidence is continually pusher out of reach, hummmmm.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          So they are damned if they don’t perform to your specification, and unworthy profiteers if they do?

          That question was rhetorical. You are free to disbelieve the existence of ice cream because no one brought you two scoops right now as you would like. Should we be concerned about this?

          Again rhetorical.

          • clovis ray

            First off i said no such thing, as being unworthy and profiteers those are your words, and i personally think the ecat works,it just they said they would, tell us if it preformed as it was said that it would, that’s all,nothing more or less quit trying to put words in my mouth, you have on idea who you are talking too.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            Your words are your own, where you put them is your business.

  • clovis ray

    Gerald, it would be sad, to think these testers, are holding the world in limbo, while they all go on vacation, that would be criminal, surly that is not the case. excess heat is already known, it called the rossi effect, and that was not part of the experiment, the experiment was to establish that it does exist ,and has existed for at least 6 months at a time, thats all, now if they want to test form now on, that great, as well, but they promised to give the results of this report, not further testing.
    now lets get on with it, it don’t take that long to give up these simple results, what i would like to know , what millions of data points is he talking about, and how could that make any difference in this day and time, mere child’s play, there is not that much to study, does the dam thing make energy or not, that is the only real question, no more testing, you have had long enought, 3 years in testing is enough.

    • Maxfield Q Norse

      These men risk their reputations and careers to bring credibility and you suggest they are retarding the effort.

      The sensation which you are feeling is that of your wheels leaving the road.

      Surely it is not the case. It was a lovely use of innuendo and a subtle twist of the blade. In the final accounting it is a small sad and misguided thing.

      • clovis ray

        come on Max, where will their reputations be if all is true, yep histroy books, so don’t give us that old tired explanation, nothing ventured nothing gained, I did not say they were retarding the effort,Gerald said that, and i assure you my wheels is on the ground, i’m just tired of the ever ending delay, why would any prospective buyer think this is not a scam when all the credible evidence is continually pusher out of reach, hummmmm.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          So they are damned if they don’t perform to your specification, and unworthy profiteers if they do, this is what you suggested when you said?

          “come on Max, where will their reputations be if all is true, yep histroy books”

          That question was rhetorical. You are free to disbelieve the existence of ice cream because no one brought you two scoops right now as you would like. Should we be concerned about this?

          Again rhetorical.

          If you think hummmmmming at the end of that lends credence or credibility for speciously whispered, innuendo laced questions; perphaps you should try your had at rap battles where you might be more successful.

          • clovis ray

            First off i said no such thing, as being unworthy and profiteers those are your words, and i personally think the ecat works,it just they said they would, tell us if it preformed as it was said that it would, that’s all,nothing more or less quit trying to put words in my mouth, you have on idea who you are talking too.

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            Your words are your own, where you put them is your business.

        • Gerald

          Clovis I didn’t say that the professors are retarding. I just said that september sounds more logical to me. Why make a big announcement in july or august when a lot of people enjoy a holiday. Also a lot of dissision makers and politicy. June would be ok but maybe they needed some extra time. Who will make the report public the testers or IH? And I agree with Maxfield Q, they are risking reputation. I hope/think they did the job good and that from this report we start to change the way we generate and use energie and that a lot of people can enjoy it and get a little more pleasure in life. No more.

  • Owen Geiger

    What about Tesla’s car? Lots of people supposedly saw him driving it around with no internal combustion engine.

  • ecatworld

    This is from Rossi on the JONP today:

    Giuliano Bettini and Gentle Readers:
    Please disregard any rumor, whisper, noise, voice, whistle, chant, music or whatsoever acoustic waves vibration regarding the date of publishing of the report, because nobody knows anything of it. Until I do not know anything about it, you can be sure nobody knows anything about it. All the acoustic waves vibrations about it are groundless virtualities, whatever the frequency.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Christopher Calder

      Very well put by Rossi. He has a great sense of humor.

    • artefact

      When Passerini told us that the testing is finished Rossi also said something like that. Passerini was right though.

    • Sanjeev

      Very poetic…
      I’m not waiting for the report, we already know what’s in it, I’m waiting for the announcement of a Ecat power plant opening for public. Thats more important. Let me know if you hear any vibrations about it.

  • Frank Acland

    This is from Rossi on the JONP today:

    Giuliano Bettini and Gentle Readers:
    Please disregard any rumor, whisper, noise, voice, whistle, chant, music or whatsoever acoustic waves vibration regarding the date of publishing of the report, because nobody knows anything of it. Until I do not know anything about it, you can be sure nobody knows anything about it. All the acoustic waves vibrations about it are groundless virtualities, whatever the frequency.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Very well put by Rossi. He has a great sense of humor.

    • artefact

      When Passerini told us that the testing is finished Rossi also said something like that. Passerini was right though.

    • Sanjeev

      Very poetic…
      I’m not waiting for the report, we already know what’s in it, I’m waiting for the announcement of a Ecat power plant opening for public. Thats more important. Let me know if you hear any vibrations about it.

      • bachcole

        I know that the next test will just re-confirm what we already know. But let’s be honest. Isn’t it going to be GREAT to get a re-confirmation of what we already know, but we know by the narrowest of channels imaginable, some e-mails, one website at http://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.3913.pdf . But who among us has burned their finger on it. And we can take the next test and rub it in the noses of all of those malicious skeptopaths. And there will be new information, including but probably not limited to transmutations. Tell me the truth, aren’t you just a little bit excited. I am, although I already know that it is going to be very positive with a much higher COP.

  • Bernie777

    Negative, negative, negative. Please, need positive ideas, thoughts, facts, but thanks for responding.

  • Foks0904 .

    Darn. But I suppose I rather have it be thorough, complete with isotopic analysis, than be rushed out for the sake of simply satisfying naysayers and/or groupies like us.

  • Foks0904 .

    Darn. But I suppose I rather have it be thorough, complete with isotopic analysis, than be rushed out for the sake of simply satisfying naysayers and/or groupies like us.

  • Kevin O

    A few weeks ago, Jed Rothwell said that professors have a very
    casual relationship with deadlines. A better round of adjectives would
    be thoughtless, supercilious, aloof.

    There is not much
    doubt in my mind that this report will eventually be positive. If it
    had been a blowout, they’d have published loudly and quickly.

    And in this interim period after April when the report was
    DUE, the delays (now very extended delays) are more likely due to the
    fact that these scientists, their family & friends are using this
    information selfishly. Cyclone Power (CYPW) could easily be bankrupt
    by the time these guys finally get off their butts. But these
    professors are very likely all giving their friends the heads up that
    LENR is real, how to invest accordingly, and taking this stolen time to
    move their own money advantageously.

    • pedro

      @Kevin: so lets assume the report is positive, and you have $100K to invest. Please tell me how to make money from that knowledge???
      – short the Nuclear players? What if they are aware of LENR and already are involved in the background? After all, they are in the energy business and should be aware of the developments and be prepared for the paradigm change.
      – short the Oil industry… same story
      – short the Energy utilities sector? Maybe they are going to be the ones that benefit in the first place by lowering their costs and passing on only a part of the gain to the consumers
      I know quite a bit about financial instruments (options, futures, etc) but I would not know a single trade that would give me a good chance of success. So please tell me who will be the winners and losers from the publication of a positive report.
      Remember, in financial speculation, you can be right and still lose money if you got the timing wrong.

      • GreenWin

        Barclays Bank (a PTB player) Energy Specialist Team told their elite investors 3 weeks ago to “underweight” the entire USA electric utilities sector. That means sell, not hold. You can be sure these guys who hang with PTB know full well what’s happening in Lugano, Switzerland. The cover story is PV.
        http://calhounpowerline.com/2014/05/27/barclays-bank-advises-investors-of-increased-risk-of-electric-utilities-reduces-bond-recommendation-to-underweight/

      • bachcole

        My feeling exactly. I know that I might switch my retirement money here or there, but I wouldn’t risk new money on anything. Any kind of short term investment or an investment with an expectation of short term benefit would be very iffy.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        If only you had one million you could invest directly with Cherokee.

        If they come out on the market in a scaled down size from 10 to 50 kW you could in theory buy one and set up a micro generation plant to sell energy to the grid.

        My experience with stocks is not so good but you could buy shares of any early adopter companies which integrate this power source into their products. They will decimate their competition.

        • Omega Z

          I agree, Cherokee or IH investors will make huge returns. Outside of them, Big gains for the little guy are sparse.

          I invest in a 1 store business, then by adding 1 to 4 new stores my return is huge. Invest in Wal-mart & they add 10 or 20 new stores, stocks hardly move due to their large size to begin with.

          Best investments at this time would be Corporations such as Siemens or GE. But these investments are similar to a Wal-mart investment. Little return percentage wise. Even with a doubling in value, the little investor likely wont become rich and the Big Investors already are.

          Alternately, you could scour the penny stocks selecting a few that have some promise which MAY? benefit at a later time. Investing a few $100 or $1000 amongst them & hope 1 pans out. However, Start by concluding the money is lost. It’s a long shot.

          I think some here are hoping to find an investment where a few $1000 will net them Millions in just a couple years. I think many will be disappointed & some out money they can ill afford to lose.

          If getting Rich was simple & easy, Everyone would do it.

    • my bets are that either they simply harden their report because
      1- they are afraid to be ridiculed by influential deniers and all parrots around.
      2- they want more data to propose a paper (with theory?) that will give them a Nobel prize.

      the best way for a scientist to make money, or not to lose money is :
      – avoid getting ridiculed
      – making a very good paper (get funding, prize, citation)

  • Kevin O

    A few weeks ago, Jed Rothwell said that professors have a very
    casual relationship with deadlines. A better round of adjectives would
    be thoughtless, supercilious, aloof.

    There is not much
    doubt in my mind that this report will eventually be positive. If it
    had been a blowout, they’d have published loudly and quickly.

    And in this interim period after April when the report was
    DUE, the delays (now very extended delays) are more likely due to the
    fact that these scientists, their family & friends are using this
    information selfishly. Cyclone Power (CYPW) could easily be bankrupt
    by the time these guys finally get off their butts. But these
    professors are very likely all giving their friends the heads up that
    LENR is real, how to invest accordingly, and taking this stolen time to
    move their own money advantageously.

    • pedro

      @Kevin: so lets assume the report is positive, and you have $100K to invest. Please tell me how to make money from that knowledge???
      – short the Nuclear players? What if they are aware of LENR and already are involved in the background? After all, they are in the energy business and should be aware of the developments and be prepared for the paradigm change.
      – short the Oil industry… same story
      – short the Energy utilities sector? Maybe they are going to be the ones that benefit in the first place by lowering their costs and passing on only a part of the gain to the consumers
      I know quite a bit about financial instruments (options, futures, etc) but I would not know a single trade that would give me a good chance of success. So please tell me who will be the winners and losers from the publication of a positive report.
      Remember, in financial speculation, you can be right and still lose money if you got the timing wrong.

      • GreenWin

        Barclays Bank (a PTB player) Energy Specialist Team told their elite investors 3 weeks ago to “underweight” the entire USA electric utilities sector. That means sell, not hold. You can be sure these guys who hang with PTB know full well what’s happening in Lugano, Switzerland. The cover story is PV.
        http://calhounpowerline.com/2014/05/27/barclays-bank-advises-investors-of-increased-risk-of-electric-utilities-reduces-bond-recommendation-to-underweight/

      • bachcole

        My feeling exactly. I know that I might switch my retirement money here or there, but I wouldn’t risk new money on anything. Any kind of short term investment or an investment with an expectation of short term benefit would be very iffy.

      • Maxfield Q Norse

        If only you had one million you could invest directly with Cherokee.

        If they come out on the market in a scaled down size from 10 to 50 kW you could in theory buy one and set up a micro generation plant to sell energy to the grid.

        My experience with stocks is not so good but you could buy shares of any early adopter companies which integrate this power source into their products. They will decimate their competition. Investing is always a game rigged against the small player. The best option is if you can own your own technology and print money with it by spinning the electric meter backwards.

        • Omega Z

          I agree, Cherokee or IH investors will make huge returns. Outside of them, Big gains for the little guy are sparse.

          I invest in a 1 store business, then by adding 1 to 4 new stores my return is huge. Invest in Wal-mart & they add 10 or 20 new stores, stocks hardly move due to their large size to begin with.

          Best investments at this time would be Corporations such as Siemens or GE. But these investments are similar to a Wal-mart investment. Little return percentage wise. Even with a doubling in value, the little investor likely wont become rich and the Big Investors already are.

          Alternately, you could scour the penny stocks selecting a few that have some promise which MAY? benefit at a later time. Investing a few $100 or $1000 amongst them & hope 1 pans out. However, Start by concluding the money is lost. It’s a long shot.

          I think some here are hoping to find an investment where a few $1000 will net them Millions in just a couple years. I think many will be disappointed & some out money they can ill afford to lose.

          If getting Rich was simple & easy, Everyone would do it.

        • Broncobet

          An investment in IH is the worst investment you could possibly make.

      • Broncobet

        You would short the natural gas and coal futures,I would advise against it as all the people on this site were chirping about how low oil prices would go and they are up from then.

    • my bets are that either they simply harden their report because
      1- they are afraid to be ridiculed by influential deniers and all parrots around.
      2- they want more data to propose a paper (with theory?) that will give them a Nobel prize.

      the best way for a scientist to make money, or not to lose money is :
      – avoid getting ridiculed
      – making a very good paper (get funding, prize, citation)

    • Hhiram

      Wow this is an incredibly cynical view. It is also completely inaccurate based on my knowledge and experience as an academic scientist.

      You don’t rush careful science. You do what needs to be done, and it ain’t over until it’s over. Science isn’t like business – it doesn’t follow deadlines. And no deadline for this work was ever set. I don’t even know where you got that idea from. All we have is Rossi giving us estimates of when he guesses the scientific team’s work will be completed.

      As for the idea that the scientific team has some insider trading scheme going, that is just crazy conspiracy theory nonsense. This is real life, not a James Bond movie. Scientific research is carefully governed not only by ethical standards but also by nondisclosure agreements, which Rossi has already said the scientists are contracted under.

  • RKTect

    Semiconductor technology continues to advance with capability doubling approximately every 18 months. The field is littered with dozens of companies that had cutting edge technologies for a brief time before being leapfrogged by others. I’ve invested in several of those of those over the years only to watch many disappear.
    Assuming Rossi truly& luckily discovered a process that works pretty well without a sound theoretical understanding, doesn’t it make sense that publication of details such as resultant isotopes and bullet proof testing, will of necessity, reveal almost everything Rossi has used.
    At most, it seems IH will have an 18 month window to cash in on its investment before the next generation of new and improved Lenr devices overtakes it.
    The tradeoffs required in the business model analysis must be daunting. Industrial Heat only has so much capital and time to recover its investment after the study is released, before competitors flood the market. Particularly if the ‘magic bullet’ is as simple as Rossi at first represented with his home heating device models.
    As suggested earlier, IH probably has an incentive to target a specific release date for the study and public visits of its operating demonstration system.
    Patience all – assuming the results are as positive as we are anticipating this will be as disruptive as the semiconductor to the way we lead our lives.

    • Robert Ellefson

      Actually, semiconductor technology has finally hit the end of Moore’s Law, and now the only way people are able to ascribe ‘progress’ commensurate with Moore’s Law is to play games with the ‘node’ names, so that what used to be a simple linear metric for the achievable feature resolution of a process has now become nothing more than a marketing tool devoid of meaning except inference. Progress in density improvements is still happening, but it is with fits and starts and involves lots of ancillary advances rather than linear scaling with a few tweaks. Not that this actually has anything to do with LENR, but it is worth noting in general, if you’re into that sort of thing.

      As for the delays, I strongly disagree with everybody who is counseling patience and understanding for the people doing the testing. The only reason to keep any of the progress secret is so that the folks developing this product line can make more money once they are finished with their work. I’m glad that at least a veneer of humanitarian concern is being expressed by Rossi and IH, but I am entirely unconvinced that they are putting their best efforts into putting the interests of the world before their own. As detailed by Mats Lewan and discussed by many people since 2011, Rossi is playing two sides of a fence: keeping doubts alive, if not thriving, while providing just enough proof of his technology to further his own interests (IH, etc.)

      The longer they dither with ‘testing’, the more people suffer and die while waiting for this salvation to arrive. It is as simple as that.

      • bachcole

        Notice that Moore’s Law is not really a law. I wonder if this sort of thing can (and perhaps will be) applied to the so-called sacrosanct laws of physics.

        • blanco69

          Agreed Roger. The test of a good law is to see how well it stands up after its been broken. 🙂

        • Robert Ellefson

          “Postulate” just doesn’t have the ring to it that “Law” does. I think we should redefine the word “Law” to mean only those synthesized rules which apply to human behavior, and all natural “laws” should instead be defined as some form of postulate regarding predictive models derived from observed phenomena. It needs to sound cool though, or it’ll never work.

        • wavelator

          For an opinion on that, ask Newton how he feels about Einstein.

          • bachcole

            To be completely fair to Isaac, all our down to Earth conventional measurements short of GPS still work in his formula. (:->)

      • HHiram

        Your narrow reading of Moore’s Law is not meaningful in the long run. Moore’s Law does not describe computing technology in general. It only describes transistor density on integrated circuits. There were 4 computing technology paradigms *before* Moore’s Law that also followed exponential growth: transistors, vacuum tubes, relays, and mechanical computers. Here:

        http://www.kurzweilai.net/images/Jurvetson%20article%20(image%202).jpg

        Transistor density is not important. All that matters is number of computations per second per constant dollar. That number is continuing to grow exponentially, and will do so at least until 2030 according to Intel’s CEO.

        • Robert Ellefson

          If you are interested in purchasing as many computations per dollar as possible, then your redefinition of Moore’s law has meaning. If you are an electronic hardware design engineer, such as I am, then the original definition of Moore’s law has more meaning than yours. What I find interesting and relevant about Moore’s Law is how much of a self-fulfilling prophecy it became. For decades, people involved with using semiconductors have been using linear interpolation to predict capabilities of electronics far into the future, and semiconductor manufacturing folks have used the exact same predictions to target their equipment and process designs. That is all changing now that lithography is stalling, from lack of ‘extreme UV’ light sources, among other challenges.

  • Buck

    Roger, here is the note, quoted verbatim. I also include the link associated with Mr. Moho’s comments.

    COP 18-20 —
    Mr. Moho spotted a couple of insider posts on Italian blogs (and subsequent deletions) one of which claimed a COP of 18 and another
    a COP of “about 20.”

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/21/a-few-miscellaneous-e-cat-items/#comment-1401306307

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    We really shouldn’t be surprised it is taking so long. Every scientist involved knows what happened the last time when Pons and Fleischman produced their report to the world. They will want to be absolutely sure no errors where made before releasing a report that could conceivably end their carriers and good name if not done correctly.

    Still, nobody will go through this amount of effort for a non-existing effect. I’m sure the test will be positive; it’s just a matter of how positive it will have been. A COP of 3 is interesting, a COP of 10 or higher is revolutionary.

    • clovis ray

      z z z, hi.
      you said,’its just a matter of how positive it will have been. A COP of 3 is interesting, a COP of 10 or higher is revolutionary. true and that all this test was to report, so whats the hold up. if it 3 or less, who cares.

      • Alain Samoun

        Clovis:
        In a changing world,sometime delays can be beneficial.

        • clovis ray

          hi, Alain, i could not agree more, but to whom.

          • Alain Samoun

            “the law of nature, will be in effect”
            That’s why we should be optimistic,nothing will stop the progress for humanity represented by free energy.

          • it is a conference with high fees, gathering rich and influential people; and it seems it is led by a lobby of people trying to oppose a liberal/free-market agenda (I investigated a little).

            It is not innocent as it is a lobby via information.
            People go ther to meet other peers and exchange views, exchange position to synchronize them…
            It is not innocent, like a cartel of a lobbyist, but it is not a black cabinet…
            just yet another lobby like agenda 21, Rome Club, Davos, all fighting for different visions and inviting the same guys.

            the guy who tried to control BBC communications on some science question, with industrial vested interest, ideology vested interest, were even worse (but smaller, because size and variety prevent the most awful conspiracy not to leak)

          • Pekka Janhunen

            Admin: It would be good to have dates preserved for the individual updates on this page (currently a date exists only for Update #1). Would it be possible for you to easily reconstruct them perhaps from some history or log files? In any case, I would propose adding a date from now on.

          • malkom700

            It appears that in general in LENR proceed very slowly. In the event that this is a deliberate slowdown, we must remember that it is a serious criminal offense for possible damage caused in social, political and environmental areas.

          • ecatworld

            Thanks Pekka — very good point. I will go back through and add dates as I am able.

      • Bernie777

        I hope you are wrong, but I too have this sinking feeling, but I do have faith in at least some of the scientists involved and if their report was being suppressed I am confident they would report the suppression.

      • bachcole

        I guess they changed their minds and decided to do other things like checking for transmutations, but they forgot to tell clovis ray like they were “supposed” to do.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          Conspiracy theorists. The sky is falling. The fact that none has hit me on the head is proof of a cover-up, this must be known at the highest levels.

          • bachcole

            Excellent!!! It makes me think that it is some kind of psychological thing. “The sky is falling” = they are not happy. “The fact that none has hit me on the head” = They don’t quite know why they are unhappy. “is proof of a cover-up” = it is unconscious unresolved issues. “this must be known at the highest levels” = my parents are the cause of my unconscious emotional problems. (:->)

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            What truly terrifies me is that there are so many with this condition.
            I think there is a consensus here, so they must be correct.
            Surely it cannot be some argumentative trolling.

          • clovis ray

            It’s people like you that keeps folks in the dark, so if you can’t join the conversation, without your snide remarks, just listen, and learn.

          • clovis ray

            unbelievable, you don’t intimidate anyone, this group, will not tolerate such abuse, so watch it.

        • clovis ray

          hi, guy, no one was suppose to tell me anything, it was they that said they would inform, the public of their report by the middle to late June now another 3 mounts to write a simple report of their own experiment . but you will have to admit that the first sign of a scam is to keep putting off the evidence, of what they say is true, max i am not saying that IH is scamming i am just saying what it looks like, to a inquiring mind, or an investor-customer.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    We really shouldn’t be surprised it is taking so long. Every scientist involved knows what happened the last time when Pons and Fleischman produced their report to the world. They will want to be absolutely sure no errors where made before releasing a report that could conceivably end their carriers and good name if not done correctly.

    Still, nobody will go through this amount of effort for a non-existing effect. I’m sure the test will be positive; it’s just a matter of how positive it will have been. A COP of 3 is interesting, a COP of 10 or higher is revolutionary.

    • clovis ray

      z z z, hi.
      you said,’its just a matter of how positive it will have been. A COP of 3 is interesting, a COP of 10 or higher is revolutionary. true and that all this test was to report, so whats the hold up. if it 3 or less, who cares. i just believe it’s being,suppressed, for some reason i’m not sure what.

      • Alain Samoun

        Clovis:
        In a changing world,sometime delays can be beneficial.

        • clovis ray

          hi, Alain, i could not agree more, but to whom. with all the money and political power, in the world is at stake, and the law of nature, will be in effect.

          • Alain Samoun

            “the law of nature, will be in effect”
            That’s why we should be optimistic,nothing will stop the progress for humanity represented by free energy.

          • bachcole

            This is why I keep referring to it as a Juggernaut. It is impossible to stop at this point. The “laws” of physics and the patterns of human ambition, greed, and charity point to the fact that this is inevitable. Only an asteroid slamming into the East Coast of the USA would be able to stop it.

          • clovis ray

            ok. fingers crossed,

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I hope you are wrong, but I too have this sinking feeling, but I do have faith in at least some of the scientists involved and if their report was being suppressed I am confident they would report the suppression.

      • bachcole

        I guess they changed their minds and decided to do other things like checking for transmutations, but they forgot to tell clovis ray like they were “supposed” to do.

        • Maxfield Q Norse

          Conspiracy theorists. The sky is falling. The fact that none has hit me on the head is proof of a cover-up, this must be known at the highest levels.

          • bachcole

            Excellent!!! It makes me think that it is some kind of psychological thing. “The sky is falling” = they are not happy. “The fact that none has hit me on the head” = They don’t quite know why they are unhappy. “is proof of a cover-up” = it is unconscious unresolved issues. “this must be known at the highest levels” = my parents are the cause of my unconscious emotional problems. (:->)

          • Maxfield Q Norse

            What truly terrifies me is that there are so many with this condition.
            I think there is a consensus here, so by consensus belief they must be correct. Surely it cannot be some argumentative trolling.

            This update thread is like a wacko magnet.
            With each addition it becomes more threatening to the psyche, causing ever greater aberration.

          • Broncobet

            Meanwhile, the price of oil continues its climb.

        • clovis ray

          hi, guy, no one was suppose to tell me anything, it was they that said they would inform, the public of their report by the middle to late June now another 3 mounts to write a simple report of their own experiment . but you will have to admit that the first sign of a scam is to keep putting off the evidence, of what they say is true, max i am not saying that IH is scamming i am just saying what it looks like, to a inquiring mind, or an investor-customer.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Maybe it’s being repressed, but I don’t see any evidence to support that.

        I assume the report will be very positive so it will be an extraordinary claim wich will be subjected to an incredible amount of scrutiny wich it has to stand up to. Also it stands to reason that when the test ended some time is needed for analysis of the ashes and draw conclusions which then have to be written into the report. Some internal peer review will surely take place so these things take time. Nothing unusual here.

        • clovis ray

          hi, zzz, i was just trying to advance the idea, (what if,) it is positive, in which i truly believe it is positive, but just like last time, they are stalling trying to figure out how to suppress is again, with the money and power involved, anything i repeat anything is possible, and we must not be so naive to let it happen once again, just saying, what if they come out and say well nothing here move along, well then what, we need a backup but it seems no one has any idea how to produce an equal amount of heat., if there is someone that has did this i don’t know who they are, as for proof, lots of guesses, no demonstrations,.

      • Dave

        Are you kidding? A COP of anything much over 1 is revolutionary because it means we have a source of cheap, clean, safe energy.

        • clovis ray

          hi, Dave.
          Yea, you could be right , but the way i was calculating the cop, is that cop of 1, would be about dead even, then you have to add the mouse energy in, that controls the cat lets say that a cop of 2, then all the other losses magnet, lost heat, RF, gamma, and gods onlys knows what else, would bring us up to the count of cop of 3, so you see not enough to do any kind usable work. just trying to figure this thing out.

  • Robert Ellefson

    Actually, semiconductor technology has finally hit the end of Moore’s Law, and now the only reason people are able to ascribe ‘progress’ commensurate with Moore’s Law is to play games with the ‘node’ names, so that what used to me a simple linear metric for the achievable feature resolution of a process has now become nothing more than a marketing tool devoid of meaning except inference. Progress in density improvements is still happening, but it is fits and starts and involves lots of ancillary advances rather than linear scaling with a few tweaks. Not that this actually has anything to do with LENR, but it is worth noting in general, if you’re into that sort of thing.

    As for the delays, I strongly disagree with everybody who is counseling patience and understanding for the people doing the testing. The only reason to keep any of the progress secret is so that the folks developing this product line can make more money once they are finished with their work. I’m glad that at least a veneer of humanitarian concern is being expressed by Rossi and IH, but I am entirely unconvinced that they are putting their best efforts into putting the interests of the world before their own interests. As detailed by Mats Lewan, and discussed by many people since 2011, Rossi is playing two sides of a fence, keeping doubts alive, if not thriving, while providing just enough proof of his technology to further his own interests (IH, etc.)

    The longer they dither with ‘testing’, the more people suffer and die while waiting for this salvation to arrive. It is as simple as that.

    • bachcole

      Notice that Moore’s Law is not really a law. I wonder if this sort of thing can (and perhaps will be) applied to the so-called sacrosanct laws of physics.

      • blanco69

        Agreed Roger. The test of a good law is to see how well it stands up after its been broken. 🙂

      • Robert Ellefson

        “Postulate” just doesn’t have the ring to it that “Law” does. I think we should redefine the word “Law” to mean only those synthesized rules which apply to human behavior, and all natural “laws” should instead be defined as some form of postulate regarding predictive models derived from observed phenomena. It needs to sound cool though, or it’ll never work.

      • wavelator

        For an opinion on that, ask Newton how he feels about Einstein.

    • HHiram

      Your narrow reading of Moore’s Law is not meaningful in the long run. Moore’s Law does not describe computing technology in general. It only describes transistor density on integrated circuits. There were 4 computing technology paradigms *before* Moore’s Law that also followed exponential growth: transistors, vacuum tubes, relays, and mechanical computers. Here:

      http://www.kurzweilai.net/images/Jurvetson%20article%20(image%202).jpg

      Transistor density is not important. All that matters is number of computations per second per constant dollar. That number is continuing to grow exponentially, and will do so at least until 2030 according to Intel’s CEO.

    • Alain Samoun

      That will be a side effect,don’t worry they will recover…

    • Broncobet

      Johnson was a famous abuser of power, remember Lady Bird had the signals blocked so folks in Austin had to watch her station?

  • Alain Samoun

    Brother:
    Free energy to me would be energy that you can get with a relative simple mechanism or machine. For example a bicycle could be considered as a free transportation. I think,the way Rossi’s E-Cat has been demonstrated would correspond to a free energy machine.
    About Tesla,of course you know AC/DC,among others Tesla’s ideas,Tesla motors use an electric engine based on his design, for his energy tower, google ” schumann resonance sprite ” and see that in the future we could get energy from thunderstorms. I could not resist to direct you to read the book of my daughter Abigail “Mind Afire”,advertized on this site ;=) to change your mind about Tesla.

    • bachcole

      You are redefining the words “free energy”. According to the traditional use of the words, a bicycle is definitely not free energy, and this becomes obvious when you try to pedal up a long hill. (:->) The Universe may be free energy if you believe in the steady state theory (as opposed to the Big Bang theory).

  • Bernie777

    bachcole…..Please don’t be so negative. Of course I do not think IH should answer every question, there is nothing wrong with discussing the alternatives facing IH and if they are up to the task, if you do not want to join the discussion, please don’t.

  • ecatworld

    That’s not the case. IH Incorporation documents were filed in August 2013 (http://www.secinfo.com/d1gBmn.xe.htm)

    The IH press release was in January 2014

    • bachcole

      I could have sworn that there was something about Rossi joining I.H. one day after the incorporation documents were filed. Perhaps I am mistaken.

  • Fortyniner

    First reply disappeared, so I’m re-posting the gist:

    That’s why I said “not just by accretion, but possibly also as a result of other factors” – meaning in this case core expansion or some other unknown factor, as suggested in the linked pages.

    The Waterworld movie was based on the premise that catastrophic climate change had melted the icecaps resulting in massive seal level rise – nothing to do with planetary accretion of water (which is minimal anyway).

  • Alain Samoun

    Owen said “no internal combustion engine”
    Obviously it was an electric car…

  • SimeonHein

    Thanks for sharing. Looks like the “ETs” predict success for LENR.

  • NCY

    Andrea Rossi
    June 21st, 2014 at 9:18 AM
    Giuliano Bettini and Gentle Readers:
    Please disregard any rumor, whisper, noise, voice, whistle, chant, music or whatsoever acoustic waves vibration regarding the date of publishing of the report, because nobody knows anything of it. Until I do not know anything about it, you can be sure nobody knows anything about it. All the acoustic waves vibrations about it are groundless virtualities, whatever the frequency.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    from his blog, seems to indicate that these reports may not be true.

  • bitpl